June 25, 2025 • 35 mins
In this episode of the Throttle Up Leadership Podcast, Dr. John Dentico hosts Monika Malan, a leadership coach and corporate strategist with over 18 years of experience in the corporate and IT sectors. Monika shares her journey as a South African woman in male-dominated industries and emphasizes the importance of authentic leadership, emotional intelligence, and strategic thinking. She discusses the shift towards collaborative leadership, the impact of having meaning in the workplace, and provides actionable strategies for women to assert their leadership without succumbing to outdated corporate norms. The conversation also touches on the importance of aligning personal values with organizational goals, hiring for heart, and combating imposter syndrome in the workplace.
00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
01:43 Monika's Background and Early Influences
02:13 Challenges and Mentorship in Male-Dominated Industries
03:30 Shifts in Leadership for a Multi-Generational Workforce
05:50 Real-Time Coaching for Women in the Workplace
13:08 Emotional Intelligence and Strategic Thinking
21:08 The Importance of Values and Heart in Leadership
30:28 Final Thoughts and Reflections
33:49 Conclusion and Farewell
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr John Dentico (00:05):
Welcome to the Throttle Up Leadership Podcast.
Our theme for 2025 is The Futureof Work: Meaning is the New Money!
In a world shaped by rapid innovation andconstant change the pursuit of purpose
and impact has never been more important.
I'm Dr John Dentico your host,bringing over 30 years of experience
(00:28):
in leadership, strategic thinkingand purpose-driven innovation.
Here we tackle the pressing challengesof our time-from the rise of
artificial intelligence to the growingneed for meaning in the workplace.
Together we'll uncover how leaderscan ethically integrate AI to enhance
decision-making and keep humanityat the heart of their organizations.
(00:51):
Remember amidst all thetechnological advancements in the
end, it's always about the people.
This podcast is your resource foractionable tools, thought provoking
discussions and inspiring stories.
It's time to go beyond leadershipdevelopment and focus on leadership
(01:11):
impact-creating workplaces where peoplethrive, innovation flourishes and
meaning truly becomes the new currency.
Thank you for joining me on this journey.
Now, let's Throttle Up anddive into today's episode.
Hello again and welcome to theThrottle Up Leadership Podcast.
This is your host, Dr John Dentico.
(01:33):
With me this morning is Monika Malan.
Monika's a leadership coach,corporate strategist, and advocate
for authentic leadership withover 18 years of experience in
the corporate and IT sectors.
She's passionate about empowering emergingfemale leaders to lead with confidence,
bridging traditional corporate norms withthe flexibility and values required in
(01:58):
today's multi-generational workforce.
Having navigated male dominatedindustries, Monika understands
firsthand the challenges of creatinginclusive, empowering work environments
through her expertise in emotionalintelligence, strategic thinking,
and engagement strategies, shehelps leaders build trust, reduce
burnout, and cultivate thriving teams.
(02:21):
A dedicated coach and mom to a spiritedson born during the COVID-19 lockdown,
Monika knows the balancing act ofprofessional ambition and personal life.
She's on a mission to help women embracetheir authentic leadership styles without
conforming to outdated corporate models.
In her work, Monika provides actionablestrategies to reduce turnover, align
(02:44):
leadership with personal values, andcreate cultures where people feel valued
and motivated to do their best work.
As organizations continue to battle thetalent wars, her insights offer timely and
impactful solutions for leaders lookingto navigate today's evolving workforce.
Good morning, Monika.
(03:04):
How are you?
Monika Malan (03:06):
Good morning.
How are you?
Dr John Dentico (03:08):
Monika, I'd like to begin with this question.
Where did you grow up?
And tell me some of the influences,that you had in your early life.
Monika Malan (03:18):
Yeah, so I'm born and bred South African
grew up in a very isolated way.
The whole apartheid regime, terribleas that was, that was my youth.
But roundabout the primary schooltowards high school that was abolished.
And so we finally had someoutside influences, come into
(03:39):
the country, which was great.
It's been really interesting for me toenter the workforce and, find my way as
a woman in such a male dominated, area.
It was great.
I had a mentor early on in my careerand she was absolutely pivotal in
terms of helping me gain confidence andhelping me navigate office politics.
(04:05):
To this day, I am grateful to her.
And so I think over time as I'veevolved as a leader and gained more
experience, I started mentoring andcoaching people in the workplace.
I just started realizing I needed topay it back, or pay it forward, just as
this difference in my life, this ladymade, I would like to make a difference
(04:26):
in other people's lives as well.
Dr John Dentico (04:28):
Very noble ambition without a doubt.
Always say there's twochoices you have in life.
One is to say, keep things thesame, and say, I went through it.
Therefore, you have to go through it.
The other side of that is just'cause I went through it doesn't
mean you have to go through it,
so I think we're both in a similarbusiness, to trying to help
people live a more productive,prosperous, and meaningful life.
(04:50):
And I think that's so very important.
There's that old expression.
The more you give, the more you get.
And I believe in that.
So let me ask you this.
You talk about bridging traditionalcorporate norms with the values of
today's multi-generational workforce,what are the biggest shifts leaders
need to make to stay relevant?
Monika Malan (05:11):
I feel the biggest shift that needs to happen is that leadership
is not about who's the loudest anymore.
It's a lot more about authenticity.
It's about having that emotionalintelligence, because today's workforce,
regardless of your generation, the youngergenerations, they don't fall for this.
(05:37):
Because I said so mentality anymore,you need to be able to intrinsically
motivate people and get them onboard and care about them as people.
They're not just, resources, so I feelthat is probably the biggest shift that
is happening right now is that shiftfrom black and white do, as I say, to a
(06:03):
more kind of collaborative leadership.
Dr John Dentico (06:07):
Very interesting.
I had, Dr. Michael, Gerharz from Germanya couple of weeks ago, and, well,
actually a couple of months ago, processedhis podcast and one of the things he
said that has just stood out with meis exactly the point you're making.
It's not about who's the loudest.
It's not about having themegaphone, if you will, today.
(06:27):
It's about resonance.
What resonance do you have with thepeople that are working with you?
And I think that's so very important.
My theme this year is for my work thisyear is The Future of Work: Meaning
is the New Money is the new currency.
And the question, of course, is.
What are organizations doing tobring people in by giving them
(06:52):
a sense of what Of meaning forworking with that organization?
What do you know?
How can they themselves find aan area where they're part of
the decision making process.
I think that's a big one.
They're part of thedecision making process.
At the same time, garnering, ifyou will, meaning from the things
that they do every single day.
(07:12):
So I would agree with you.
That's, very, very important.
Let me move on to another question.
You provide real-time coaching forwomen navigating workplace challenges.
Can you share a common scenarioyou've helped a client overcome?
And what lessons otherleaders can take from it.
(07:32):
Do any, do you have any specificthings that you can offer my audience?
Monika Malan (07:37):
Yeah, I mean that is an excellent question
and something I get a lot, is.
ladies that feel they, they don'tknow, especially in age of, digital,
leadership, or even just teamwork becausea lot of companies have hybrid models now.
(08:00):
They're it difficult to come acrossor to convey the skills and the
abilities they have to other people.
Whereas in the past, in person, whenyou're communicating with people and you
have your day-to-day interactions, it'sa lot easier to, build up the authority
and confidence in yourself, but alsoin other people's perception of you.
(08:22):
And now it's a conversation of how doI gain that respect or authority or
credibility when it's a more digitalplatform and you're not constantly
in each other's environments.
And so it's because it's very easyas, as a woman especially, we tend
(08:44):
to put our heads down and do our job.
We are not conditioned really toquote, unquote, toot our own horn,
or make sure that people know ofall the great things we are doing.
So it all boils down to being ableto communicate, your skills and
your achievements in a digital waywithout coming across, as arrogant or.
(09:09):
I think arrogant is anice way of putting it.
And so I teach, these ladies that it'sall about understanding what is in
your circle of control and influence.
Stephen Covey's.
Circles and being very deliberateabout knowing exactly what is in
(09:32):
your control and what is within yourinfluence and about working in such
a way to increase your influence.
So for example, you cannot controlwhat your manager does, but you can
influence by going to her proactivelymaking any suggestions as to changes
(09:53):
you need to get to know that person.
Actively set up meetings withthem, actively get to know them,
find out what are their goals forthe team, for the department, for
the company, what want to achieve?
What keeps them up at night?
So then when you identify,proactively go and see, okay,
(10:13):
here is an area for improvement.
Or here is something where I already madea difference or an impact then in your
next catch up or in your next sessionthat you have with them, communicate
and say, I've noticed this gap.
This is what I have done, orthese are the things I suggest
doing because it's important togo with solutions, not problems.
(10:36):
And then frame it in such a waythat it addresses their goals
that they've told you they have.
And that's how you can start influencingother people, their actions, but
also their perception of you and howvaluable you are as a team member.
And that is more difficult digitally.
(10:57):
Yes, but it is possible.
And that is just a small way and howyou can take back control over your
brand, if you will, and how you areperceived by others in the organization.
Dr John Dentico (11:12):
Yeah, that's, think it's very, very good advice.
I'll tell you a couple ofthings I've learned in my years.
One is, first of all, I absolutely agreewith you in terms of solve a problem,
there's a problem, help solve it.
And I am a great believer in thenotion that leadership I think
the world is seeing this shift.
This is the biggest shift.
(11:34):
In my mind is that leadership, peopleare recognizing that leadership
is an influence relationship.
Okay?
And you can have influence, this isnot positional anymore, especially.
The three external factors I talkabout is number one, the aftermath
of COVID and the fact that now peopleare not just searching for a paycheck.
(11:54):
So there's gotta be asense of meaning there.
Number two is.
The loss of trust in institutions andwe're trying to get some of that back,
but now the question is who do you trustthe third one is the incredible rapid
development of artificial intelligence.
Which means it's at a level thatis almost unimaginable in terms
(12:17):
of who has access, for 20 herein America for 20 bucks a month.
You can have a ChatGPT account, and youcan get on there research issues and
problems ask it to provide you some ideas,on how to, deal with a particular issue.
The other thing that I learnedalong the way is conversations
(12:41):
can dissipate into the air.
Okay, so you have a conversationwith somebody you may have some good
ideas, and then nothing ever happens.
It just kind of goes away.
And I always found that one has to takethe time to, create the written word.
So, for example, an old example would betaking the problem, providing maybe some
(13:08):
ideas and solutions on one sheet of paper,as we would call one sheet of paper today.
It would be one sheet of email, ifyou will, but the idea is when people
get something like that that they canfocus on, it's hard to throw it away.
I mean, they may, but it's hard tothrow it away and it's documented.
So I think too, that's an another way inwhich people can, move forward, not in a
(13:32):
condescending or hurtful way, but in a waythat says, I know we're facing this issue.
Here's three or four thingsthat I think that are, are
important to helping solve this.
And the other thing thatI'm, see is a future thing
that's happening now all over.
Where this is going to become even moreimportant is what I refer to as rapid
(13:54):
prototyping, meaning problems and issues.
Let me back up.
The world is changing so incrediblyfast that issues and problems
become known at a much quicker rate.
So in order to deal with theseissues or problems, we have to come
up with solutions and try them.
May not work.
We tried them.
It's rapid prototyping.
(14:14):
We are willing to accept they may notwork and move on to the next thing.
So within that, there's gonnahave to be more influence, more
ideas, more perspectives on howto solve, particular problems.
So the challenges are thereand it's gonna become even
more challenging in the future.
Let me ask you this question if Ican as we move on down the road.
(14:36):
You emphasize emotional intelligenceand strategic thinking and leadership.
I am a big strategic thinking guy.
I love that stuff.
How do these qualities contributeto better engagement, reduce
burnout, and stronger team cultures?
Monika Malan (14:52):
So emotional intelligence really is at the core of what I teach.
And at the forefront of that, it'sknowing and being able to articulate
your values, your core values.
You should have three to five.
(15:12):
And just by starting to acknowledgewhat your core values are, you are
already making your life a lot easieras a leader because you can use
those to guide your decision making.
You use those to set boundaries,and then by making more confident
decisions and by having boundaries,but also crucially sticking to them,
(15:36):
you are a massive step ahead in termsof reducing burnout and getting more
value more fulfillment from the workthat you are doing because you are in
alignment with who you are as a person.
And so it really is very much intertwinedthese things because the moment you as
(16:01):
an individual have enough awareness,or emotional intelligence of who you
are, what your values are, what youstand for, what your boundaries are.
You probably at that pointthen have enough self-awareness
to start developing yourself.
Start learning things likecommunication skills, because now
(16:21):
you want to know how to communicateyour boundaries and all of that.
It kind of cascades, but then the moreconfidence you gain in yourself, the more
confidence other people will have in you.
It really is a catch 22 because youwill start acting more confidently and
more assertively, communicating moreclearly and all of that then signals to
(16:43):
other people that you are trustworthy,that you know what you are doing.
And conversely, I think as women, wetend to want to help with everything
and do everything, and we'll oftenburn the midnight oil or take the notes
organize the team, buildings, all ofthat thinking we'll get credit for it,
but we end up burning ourselves outand no, we do not get credit for it.
(17:06):
The moment you put your foot down andyou start setting some boundaries.
That's when people start respecting you.
That's actually when you startgetting credit, because then people
know when you do do something,it's meaningful and it adds value.
And you're not just, everybody'sa little helper or assistance.
(17:28):
So really, it's verycodependent, I think is the word.
It really works hand in hand.
And that's why I think emotionalintelligence is so important.
It's the forefront ofeverything you do as a leader.
Dr John Dentico (17:40):
Tell me about, tell me a little bit more about your
perspective on strategic thinking.
I'm very curious to ask you about that.
Monika Malan (17:46):
Yeah, so that touches back on what I mentioned before about
being aware what your manager and yourcompany's goals are and what they want
to achieve, and that definitely goeshand in hand with emotional intelligence
because once again, you have to askyourself whether your values align
(18:07):
with what your company is standing for.
And it may not necessarily mean,your company is quote unquote bad.
It could be as simple as one companyis very innovative and first to
market and constantly driving change.
But you are someone that valuesstability and foundational work
(18:29):
and planning neither one of thoseare bad it's different, right?
So if you don't align as well with yourcompany's values or missions, there's
really a clash it makes it difficultfor you to thrive and to be your
best, but once you align and you feelpassionate about what your company's
(18:52):
doing, it really helps you drive thatstrategic thinking in terms of what
are the goals they wanna achieve?
How can I contribute to that?
How can my team contribute to that?
And you can also, if you're morelike entry level leader just starting
out, you're gonna have asks, right?
(19:12):
At some point you have toask for more equipment.
You wanna ask for rewards for the team,you want to get more people on the team
and, trying to motivate for thoserequests in the frame of how it's gonna
contribute to the company goal will makeit a lot more likely that you'll succeed.
(19:32):
And that's, in turn gets buy-in fromthe team and from upper management.
It's just, it's a win-win.
Strategic thinking definitely goes handin hand with emotional intelligence.
Dr John Dentico (19:45):
Yeah, I, a little bit different take.
I just mentioned it to you.
I think strategic thinking andstrategic planning are both good
processes, but they're different.
Strategic planning looks to find answersto questions normally created by the
senior leaders in an organization.
The problem is, are the senior leadersasking themselves the right questions.
(20:07):
And that to me is strategicthinking, is making sure you're
asking yourself the right questions.
Because every once in a while thehalls of business are lined with the
empty carcasses of businesses who neverasked themselves the right questions.
They just went along.
Fine.
And then the next thing youknow, they're filing for,
America, chapter 11, bankruptcy.
So it's a very, veryinteresting situation, I think.
(20:32):
I think emotional intelligence, youtake anything away from Goldman's
work, it's really about empathy.
It's about having a sense of empathyfor other people, understanding what
they're going through, understanding,their particular perspectives.
The leadership model that developing30 years ago has one, has one basic
foundation and that's contribution.
(20:52):
It's a contribution.
In other words, there's aproblem, there's an issue.
Let's open the door.
Anybody got any ideas?
Anybody want to help?
Let's see what we can put on thetable and see where it takes us.
And that to me is more about process.
It's more about leadershipas a practice and a process.
Have kind of turned a blind eye to thisnotion that leadership is contained
(21:14):
in the traits and the, innate personalcharacteristics of an individual.
Okay?
Because we're always waiting, it'slike we're standing on a, on a pier
waiting for that ship to pull in.
We're waiting for the, the greatleader to arrive and save us.
And the answer is nobody'sgonna come and save you.
You have to save yourself.
(21:35):
But you can do it in collaborationwith other people, that there is
talent, there's capability, andthis is a problem for leaders.
There's a problem.
I see it.
Can they be the facilitator?
Can they open up?
Allow these, this kind ofprocess to exist and go on.
And if they do, they're gonnabuild great resilience, in the
(21:58):
organization, and an ability to movequickly from one problem to another.
We're fighting years and years ofthis sort of bureaucratic mindset.
It's all about bureaucracy.
It's all about the org chart.
It's all about who's at the top ofthe pyramid and, and again, we we're
moving from who's got the loudestbullhorn to do we resonate with people?
(22:23):
And I absolutely agree on values.
150% on values, hire forvalues, work to make sure that
the values are, complimentary.
Okay?
And there's ways to do that.
There's conversations you can haveabout that and my new thing is hire for
heart, hire for values, hire for heart.
And what I mean by that is.
(22:46):
If you follow sports at all, like inAmerica, if it's a baseball game and
you're down by five runs and there's twoinnings left and you saw this, this game's
over yet a team comes back, teams comeback all the time, and they win the game.
You say, how did they do that?
It was just amazing.
And the answer is they had heart.
They have perseverance.
(23:06):
They don't care when the chips are down.
They don't care, the oddsare stacked against them.
They have heart.
Work through it.
And, and many times, heart comesfrom people who have endured
incredibly hard upbringings.
I have had, I've been blessedwith guests who have just.
(23:28):
Driven me.
Taken me to this ideaof the notion of heart.
I've had two guests that were highflyers at a young age, wound up in
prison, spent two years in prison.
Both of them came back, cameand told me, you know what?
Prison saved my life.
And now.
(23:49):
Now they're back in both doingincredible business multimillionaires
really working hard, understandingthat they took control of their lives.
They took their experiences andturned them into a, a positive.
So for me, higher forvalues, higher for heart.
And, I think that's the way we gotta,go into the future is to look at that.
(24:11):
Any reflection on that idea?
Monika Malan (24:13):
Yeah.
100%. I feel once you are confident inyourself as a leader, it makes it so
much easier to open up the doors forthat collaboration because then you are
not threatened, but other people comingup with suggestions, it really is.
Like a rising tide lifts everyone, right?
And.
(24:34):
To your point, I think it's so importantto get people on your team with the right
values and with heart, because you know,that's another thing that really irks
me, is this concept of bums in seatsand you've gotta be in front of your
computer for certain amount of hours.
The problem with that is thatyou are killing the heart.
(24:54):
You are killing.
The creativity and the passion.
I feel if you are hiring the rightpeople, they are gonna be giving
you 120% and you will never worryabout delivery or not getting what
you ask them to do, and you will nothave to micromanage, which I mean.
What manager wants to micromanage, right?
(25:16):
So I'm 100% on board with you.
I think it's really critical andso important to get the right
people on the team and open up thefloor for collaboration because
it also increases engagement andincreases participation motivation.
I can, everybody just.
It really is something magical when awhole team just gets together and puts
(25:38):
their minds together to solve something.
It's, really is next level.
It's really like the sum whatthe sum of the parts are great.
Like what does it say anyway?
Dr John Dentico (25:50):
The, the,
Monika Malan (25:50):
You're more than the sum of its
Dr John Dentico (25:52):
the whole.
Is greater than thesum of the parts, yeah,
Monika Malan (25:55):
Yeah.
That's great.
Dr John Dentico (25:58):
yeah.
And the other thing too about it is whenyou hire for values and you hire for
heart, a couple of magical things happen.
One you're gonna reduce turnoverbecause the people you hire
really want to be there.
There's this connection, as you say,and it's not a, again, I go back to
the point you made, which I thought wassolid, and that is you may be a very,
(26:18):
entrepreneurial company that loveschange and they're always changing and
they're always doing different things.
So we would need to have peoplewho like that, who believe in that
wanna be fast movers, if you will.
And then there are the more stable,companies that just, we'll make change
when we have to, but we like, there's astability here that we like and you want
the people who value that in the company.
(26:41):
And because if you mix those twochances are they're just gonna leave.
They're just gonna get up one dayand say, I can't live with this.
It just doesn't work for me.
So that's very important.
The other thing too is and thisgoes back to this meaning thing.
Meaning to me is the single greatestmotivation force on the planet.
Without a doubt.
Give people meaning great things happen.
To me if you are able to allow peopleto engage in the decision-making
(27:05):
process of the organization andthey derive meaning from the things
that they do, their work matters.
They matter.
You have an inverserelationship with burnout.
Burnout will go down.
The more meaning you can give people.
I remember in my own life,I've been burned out.
Fried is a fried crisp, the max.
(27:28):
And it was because I just feltlike there was no control.
I felt like I'd lost control,
I was trying to gain control.
And then there were timeswhen I worked ungodly hours
and you couldn't burn me out.
You couldn't burn me out.
And I remember sitting down one dayand said, well, what's the difference?
Why is that?
And the answer was because when Iwas working in an organization where
(27:50):
I felt like I made a difference, Iwas involved in charge and was doing
things, and people recognized thatand said, I was making it happen.
I would get up early in the morning, work18 hour days, and I just felt so alive.
So to me that's, very important.
I'll ask you for a reflectionon that particular idea.
Monika Malan (28:12):
No, 100%.
I agree with you.
I was in a situation where I wasworking for a company, and our values
that did not align at all, and Iwent from a fairly happy human being
to someone that hated getting up.
In the mornings, I could not like whenI look back on that time in my life, I
(28:33):
was like, I don't know how I settled forthis, but I went from a happy person to a
person who hated life within the space ofa couple of months, six to seven months.
It's such a drastic change,and yet it's so insidious
that you don't always realize.
And then because of the human brain'stendency to want, the known to stick
(28:54):
with the comfortable it's so difficultto then get out of that situation again.
But at some point you need to askyourself is, is this job really
worth your quality of life?
And so for sure, I felt so burnt outand I hated life at this company and I
(29:14):
was not working particularly long hours.
But at another company whereI had a voice, I had a say.
I loved what we were doing andI'm so passionate about it.
I easily, I worked overtime almostin the beginning, definitely
until 11 midnight every nightfor weeks on end, and I was fine.
(29:38):
I enjoyed it.
So now I 100% agree.
That is so true.
Alignment and values and heart andmeaning makes a big difference.
wish more realize that.
Dr John Dentico (29:54):
Yeah, agree.
Been writing aboutmeaning for over 25 years.
Got onto it after reading, ViktorFrankl's Man Search for Meaning, and
it was a book I read in I remember1997 and it just changed my life.
It just totally showed me the real.
Inborn side of the human that, and JosephCampbell's, the Power of Myth and the
(30:20):
Hero with a Thousand Faces, and what youfind is between Joseph Campbell and Viktor
Frankl, there is this connection point.
This connection point thatit's just so, it's profound.
And that is, I think Campbell expressedit when he said, he was asked in 1987
when he was making this televisionseries, the Power of Myth with Bill
(30:40):
Moyers, and a journalist in America.
And he said, so so Joe are we allsearching for the meaning of life?
Is that what we're allsupposed to do here?
And he said, no.
Searching for the meaning oflife is a fruitless endeavor.
He said, we're all searching forthe experience of being alive.
It's not what life means to me.
(31:02):
It's what do I mean to life?
And that to me was.
It was like a switch going offin my head that was so profound.
It has driven a lot of my work overthe course of the last 25, 30 years.
So, I agree, values, heartinvolvement, training.
(31:24):
People want to be trained, given theopportunity to get better at what they do.
So training and learningis very, very important.
Values alignment.
It's just, it's all there.
And people have to take a stepback and look at it and say,
okay, what can we do about this?
And when you do that.
If you're a leader, when you dothat, you'll unleash an unbelievable
amount of tremendous power andcreativity and ingenuity to take your
(31:49):
organization wherever you want it to go.
So ask you for yourreflection on that as well.
Monika Malan (31:55):
Yeah.
I think, to the point we made at thebeginning of our discussion around
the big shift in leadership from beingthe loudest voice to rather, leading
more collaboratively and with empathy,I feel that is where women shine.
We are more naturally inclined, to becommunity driven and to be collaborative.
(32:20):
And so I am so excited about theopportunities we have because leadership
has changed, the definition has changed,and women, we have such an innate ability
to derive meaning and be meaningfulto others and make a difference and
(32:40):
to just sweep everybody up with them.
So I'm so excited and want to bepart of that movement and just
get it going because sometimeswe are our own worst enemies.
We tend to second guess ourselves alot, and I think we've got so much to
add, so much value to add the workplace.
(33:02):
So yeah, completely.
I'm so on board witheverything you've said.
This is good conversationto be having right now.
Dr John Dentico (33:10):
Great.
I appreciate that.
Well, let me ask you as we getto the end here, let me ask
you my, world famous question.
I've asked for people from all overthe world, and that is, if you had
a magic wand and you could changeone thing in the workplace that you
see right now what would that thingbe and why did you choose that?
Monika Malan (33:28):
I think if I could wave a magic wand, I want to eliminate
self-doubt and imposter syndrome, fromeveryone, but especially from the women
those things hold them back from steppinginto the leadership with confidence.
We hesitate before speaking up.
(33:48):
We don't wanna be seen asarrogant or aggressive.
We don't put enough value on the workthat we contribute and we really need
to start owning how awesome we are.
And so I would do away with theimposter syndrome and the self-doubt
Dr John Dentico (34:04):
Yeah.
That's a great one.
I like that a lot.
I would also add this piece.
I know your orientation is towardswomen, but I would bet you money.
That there are a lot ofmen who feel that too.
A lot of young men feel thesame way and, who feel in many
respects, disenfranchised.
And, so I think if we keep more of an openperspective, that it could be anybody.
(34:28):
It's with women and it canbe with men too in many ways.
So I think we have to open the door.
When I train people, in trainingmode, I make no judgements
about people in the room.
None.
Zero.
I'm a trainer.
You put people in the room, I train them.
That's it.
It's simple.
And that's the expectation, right?
(34:49):
John's here, he is gonna trainpeople, treat 'em the same way, do
the same thing with them, and givethem the opportunity to step up and
do the things that they want to do.
Training environments that I createfor them, especially when I'm working
in my simulation work where thereare no computers, there are just 40
people in a room, and, you, you watchthe energy really once you give them
(35:12):
a problem and the energy just takesoff and it's really, really amazing.
So.
I agree.
Listen, this has been a reallywonderful conversation with you.
I can't thank you enough foryour time today, Monika, and for
all the way from South Africa,which I so greatly appreciate.
I wish you all the greatest success inthe future, good things to you and your
(35:32):
son, and, thank you again for your time.
I so appreciate it.
Monika Malan (35:36):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
This has been a lot of fun.
And, I'm looking forward tochatting again in future.
Dr John Dentico (35:43):
I look forward to it
Welcome to the Throttle Up Leadership Podcast.
Our theme for 2025 is The Futureof Work: Meaning is the New Money!
In a world shaped by rapid innovation andconstant change the pursuit of purpose
and impact has never been more important.
I'm Dr John Dentico your host,bringing over 30 years of experience
(00:28):
in leadership, strategic thinkingand purpose-driven innovation.
Here we tackle the pressing challengesof our time-from the rise of
artificial intelligence to the growingneed for meaning in the workplace.
Together we'll uncover how leaderscan ethically integrate AI to enhance
decision-making and keep humanityat the heart of their organizations.
(00:51):
Remember amidst all thetechnological advancements in the
end, it's always about the people.
This podcast is your resource foractionable tools, thought provoking
discussions and inspiring stories.
It's time to go beyond leadershipdevelopment and focus on leadership
(01:11):
impact-creating workplaces where peoplethrive, innovation flourishes and
meaning truly becomes the new currency.
Thank you for joining me on this journey.
Now, let's Throttle Up anddive into today's episode.
Hello again and welcome to theThrottle Up Leadership Podcast.
This is your host, Dr John Dentico.
(01:33):
With me this morning is Monika Malan.
Monika's a leadership coach,corporate strategist, and advocate
for authentic leadership withover 18 years of experience in
the corporate and IT sectors.
She's passionate about empowering emergingfemale leaders to lead with confidence,
bridging traditional corporate norms withthe flexibility and values required in
(01:58):
today's multi-generational workforce.
Having navigated male dominatedindustries, Monika understands
firsthand the challenges of creatinginclusive, empowering work environments
through her expertise in emotionalintelligence, strategic thinking,
and engagement strategies, shehelps leaders build trust, reduce
burnout, and cultivate thriving teams.
(02:21):
A dedicated coach and mom to a spiritedson born during the COVID-19 lockdown,
Monika knows the balancing act ofprofessional ambition and personal life.
She's on a mission to help women embracetheir authentic leadership styles without
conforming to outdated corporate models.
In her work, Monika provides actionablestrategies to reduce turnover, align
(02:44):
leadership with personal values, andcreate cultures where people feel valued
and motivated to do their best work.
As organizations continue to battle thetalent wars, her insights offer timely and
impactful solutions for leaders lookingto navigate today's evolving workforce.
Good morning, Monika.
(03:04):
How are you?
Monika Malan (03:06):
Good morning.
How are you?
Dr John Dentico (03:08):
Monika, I'd like to begin with this question.
Where did you grow up?
And tell me some of the influences,that you had in your early life.
Monika Malan (03:18):
Yeah, so I'm born and bred South African
grew up in a very isolated way.
The whole apartheid regime, terribleas that was, that was my youth.
But roundabout the primary schooltowards high school that was abolished.
And so we finally had someoutside influences, come into
(03:39):
the country, which was great.
It's been really interesting for me toenter the workforce and, find my way as
a woman in such a male dominated, area.
It was great.
I had a mentor early on in my careerand she was absolutely pivotal in
terms of helping me gain confidence andhelping me navigate office politics.
(04:05):
To this day, I am grateful to her.
And so I think over time as I'veevolved as a leader and gained more
experience, I started mentoring andcoaching people in the workplace.
I just started realizing I needed topay it back, or pay it forward, just as
this difference in my life, this ladymade, I would like to make a difference
(04:26):
in other people's lives as well.
Dr John Dentico (04:28):
Very noble ambition without a doubt.
Always say there's twochoices you have in life.
One is to say, keep things thesame, and say, I went through it.
Therefore, you have to go through it.
The other side of that is just'cause I went through it doesn't
mean you have to go through it,
so I think we're both in a similarbusiness, to trying to help
people live a more productive,prosperous, and meaningful life.
(04:50):
And I think that's so very important.
There's that old expression.
The more you give, the more you get.
And I believe in that.
So let me ask you this.
You talk about bridging traditionalcorporate norms with the values of
today's multi-generational workforce,what are the biggest shifts leaders
need to make to stay relevant?
Monika Malan (05:11):
I feel the biggest shift that needs to happen is that leadership
is not about who's the loudest anymore.
It's a lot more about authenticity.
It's about having that emotionalintelligence, because today's workforce,
regardless of your generation, the youngergenerations, they don't fall for this.
(05:37):
Because I said so mentality anymore,you need to be able to intrinsically
motivate people and get them onboard and care about them as people.
They're not just, resources, so I feelthat is probably the biggest shift that
is happening right now is that shiftfrom black and white do, as I say, to a
(06:03):
more kind of collaborative leadership.
Dr John Dentico (06:07):
Very interesting.
I had, Dr. Michael, Gerharz from Germanya couple of weeks ago, and, well,
actually a couple of months ago, processedhis podcast and one of the things he
said that has just stood out with meis exactly the point you're making.
It's not about who's the loudest.
It's not about having themegaphone, if you will, today.
(06:27):
It's about resonance.
What resonance do you have with thepeople that are working with you?
And I think that's so very important.
My theme this year is for my work thisyear is The Future of Work: Meaning
is the New Money is the new currency.
And the question, of course, is.
What are organizations doing tobring people in by giving them
(06:52):
a sense of what Of meaning forworking with that organization?
What do you know?
How can they themselves find aan area where they're part of
the decision making process.
I think that's a big one.
They're part of thedecision making process.
At the same time, garnering, ifyou will, meaning from the things
that they do every single day.
(07:12):
So I would agree with you.
That's, very, very important.
Let me move on to another question.
You provide real-time coaching forwomen navigating workplace challenges.
Can you share a common scenarioyou've helped a client overcome?
And what lessons otherleaders can take from it.
(07:32):
Do any, do you have any specificthings that you can offer my audience?
Monika Malan (07:37):
Yeah, I mean that is an excellent question
and something I get a lot, is.
ladies that feel they, they don'tknow, especially in age of, digital,
leadership, or even just teamwork becausea lot of companies have hybrid models now.
(08:00):
They're it difficult to come acrossor to convey the skills and the
abilities they have to other people.
Whereas in the past, in person, whenyou're communicating with people and you
have your day-to-day interactions, it'sa lot easier to, build up the authority
and confidence in yourself, but alsoin other people's perception of you.
(08:22):
And now it's a conversation of how doI gain that respect or authority or
credibility when it's a more digitalplatform and you're not constantly
in each other's environments.
And so it's because it's very easyas, as a woman especially, we tend
(08:44):
to put our heads down and do our job.
We are not conditioned really toquote, unquote, toot our own horn,
or make sure that people know ofall the great things we are doing.
So it all boils down to being ableto communicate, your skills and
your achievements in a digital waywithout coming across, as arrogant or.
(09:09):
I think arrogant is anice way of putting it.
And so I teach, these ladies that it'sall about understanding what is in
your circle of control and influence.
Stephen Covey's.
Circles and being very deliberateabout knowing exactly what is in
(09:32):
your control and what is within yourinfluence and about working in such
a way to increase your influence.
So for example, you cannot controlwhat your manager does, but you can
influence by going to her proactivelymaking any suggestions as to changes
(09:53):
you need to get to know that person.
Actively set up meetings withthem, actively get to know them,
find out what are their goals forthe team, for the department, for
the company, what want to achieve?
What keeps them up at night?
So then when you identify,proactively go and see, okay,
(10:13):
here is an area for improvement.
Or here is something where I already madea difference or an impact then in your
next catch up or in your next sessionthat you have with them, communicate
and say, I've noticed this gap.
This is what I have done, orthese are the things I suggest
doing because it's important togo with solutions, not problems.
(10:36):
And then frame it in such a waythat it addresses their goals
that they've told you they have.
And that's how you can start influencingother people, their actions, but
also their perception of you and howvaluable you are as a team member.
And that is more difficult digitally.
(10:57):
Yes, but it is possible.
And that is just a small way and howyou can take back control over your
brand, if you will, and how you areperceived by others in the organization.
Dr John Dentico (11:12):
Yeah, that's, think it's very, very good advice.
I'll tell you a couple ofthings I've learned in my years.
One is, first of all, I absolutely agreewith you in terms of solve a problem,
there's a problem, help solve it.
And I am a great believer in thenotion that leadership I think
the world is seeing this shift.
This is the biggest shift.
(11:34):
In my mind is that leadership, peopleare recognizing that leadership
is an influence relationship.
Okay?
And you can have influence, this isnot positional anymore, especially.
The three external factors I talkabout is number one, the aftermath
of COVID and the fact that now peopleare not just searching for a paycheck.
(11:54):
So there's gotta be asense of meaning there.
Number two is.
The loss of trust in institutions andwe're trying to get some of that back,
but now the question is who do you trustthe third one is the incredible rapid
development of artificial intelligence.
Which means it's at a level thatis almost unimaginable in terms
(12:17):
of who has access, for 20 herein America for 20 bucks a month.
You can have a ChatGPT account, and youcan get on there research issues and
problems ask it to provide you some ideas,on how to, deal with a particular issue.
The other thing that I learnedalong the way is conversations
(12:41):
can dissipate into the air.
Okay, so you have a conversationwith somebody you may have some good
ideas, and then nothing ever happens.
It just kind of goes away.
And I always found that one has to takethe time to, create the written word.
So, for example, an old example would betaking the problem, providing maybe some
(13:08):
ideas and solutions on one sheet of paper,as we would call one sheet of paper today.
It would be one sheet of email, ifyou will, but the idea is when people
get something like that that they canfocus on, it's hard to throw it away.
I mean, they may, but it's hard tothrow it away and it's documented.
So I think too, that's an another way inwhich people can, move forward, not in a
(13:32):
condescending or hurtful way, but in a waythat says, I know we're facing this issue.
Here's three or four thingsthat I think that are, are
important to helping solve this.
And the other thing thatI'm, see is a future thing
that's happening now all over.
Where this is going to become even moreimportant is what I refer to as rapid
(13:54):
prototyping, meaning problems and issues.
Let me back up.
The world is changing so incrediblyfast that issues and problems
become known at a much quicker rate.
So in order to deal with theseissues or problems, we have to come
up with solutions and try them.
May not work.
We tried them.
It's rapid prototyping.
(14:14):
We are willing to accept they may notwork and move on to the next thing.
So within that, there's gonnahave to be more influence, more
ideas, more perspectives on howto solve, particular problems.
So the challenges are thereand it's gonna become even
more challenging in the future.
Let me ask you this question if Ican as we move on down the road.
(14:36):
You emphasize emotional intelligenceand strategic thinking and leadership.
I am a big strategic thinking guy.
I love that stuff.
How do these qualities contributeto better engagement, reduce
burnout, and stronger team cultures?
Monika Malan (14:52):
So emotional intelligence really is at the core of what I teach.
And at the forefront of that, it'sknowing and being able to articulate
your values, your core values.
You should have three to five.
(15:12):
And just by starting to acknowledgewhat your core values are, you are
already making your life a lot easieras a leader because you can use
those to guide your decision making.
You use those to set boundaries,and then by making more confident
decisions and by having boundaries,but also crucially sticking to them,
(15:36):
you are a massive step ahead in termsof reducing burnout and getting more
value more fulfillment from the workthat you are doing because you are in
alignment with who you are as a person.
And so it really is very much intertwinedthese things because the moment you as
(16:01):
an individual have enough awareness,or emotional intelligence of who you
are, what your values are, what youstand for, what your boundaries are.
You probably at that pointthen have enough self-awareness
to start developing yourself.
Start learning things likecommunication skills, because now
(16:21):
you want to know how to communicateyour boundaries and all of that.
It kind of cascades, but then the moreconfidence you gain in yourself, the more
confidence other people will have in you.
It really is a catch 22 because youwill start acting more confidently and
more assertively, communicating moreclearly and all of that then signals to
(16:43):
other people that you are trustworthy,that you know what you are doing.
And conversely, I think as women, wetend to want to help with everything
and do everything, and we'll oftenburn the midnight oil or take the notes
organize the team, buildings, all ofthat thinking we'll get credit for it,
but we end up burning ourselves outand no, we do not get credit for it.
(17:06):
The moment you put your foot down andyou start setting some boundaries.
That's when people start respecting you.
That's actually when you startgetting credit, because then people
know when you do do something,it's meaningful and it adds value.
And you're not just, everybody'sa little helper or assistance.
(17:28):
So really, it's verycodependent, I think is the word.
It really works hand in hand.
And that's why I think emotionalintelligence is so important.
It's the forefront ofeverything you do as a leader.
Dr John Dentico (17:40):
Tell me about, tell me a little bit more about your
perspective on strategic thinking.
I'm very curious to ask you about that.
Monika Malan (17:46):
Yeah, so that touches back on what I mentioned before about
being aware what your manager and yourcompany's goals are and what they want
to achieve, and that definitely goeshand in hand with emotional intelligence
because once again, you have to askyourself whether your values align
(18:07):
with what your company is standing for.
And it may not necessarily mean,your company is quote unquote bad.
It could be as simple as one companyis very innovative and first to
market and constantly driving change.
But you are someone that valuesstability and foundational work
(18:29):
and planning neither one of thoseare bad it's different, right?
So if you don't align as well with yourcompany's values or missions, there's
really a clash it makes it difficultfor you to thrive and to be your
best, but once you align and you feelpassionate about what your company's
(18:52):
doing, it really helps you drive thatstrategic thinking in terms of what
are the goals they wanna achieve?
How can I contribute to that?
How can my team contribute to that?
And you can also, if you're morelike entry level leader just starting
out, you're gonna have asks, right?
(19:12):
At some point you have toask for more equipment.
You wanna ask for rewards for the team,you want to get more people on the team
and, trying to motivate for thoserequests in the frame of how it's gonna
contribute to the company goal will makeit a lot more likely that you'll succeed.
(19:32):
And that's, in turn gets buy-in fromthe team and from upper management.
It's just, it's a win-win.
Strategic thinking definitely goes handin hand with emotional intelligence.
Dr John Dentico (19:45):
Yeah, I, a little bit different take.
I just mentioned it to you.
I think strategic thinking andstrategic planning are both good
processes, but they're different.
Strategic planning looks to find answersto questions normally created by the
senior leaders in an organization.
The problem is, are the senior leadersasking themselves the right questions.
(20:07):
And that to me is strategicthinking, is making sure you're
asking yourself the right questions.
Because every once in a while thehalls of business are lined with the
empty carcasses of businesses who neverasked themselves the right questions.
They just went along.
Fine.
And then the next thing youknow, they're filing for,
America, chapter 11, bankruptcy.
So it's a very, veryinteresting situation, I think.
(20:32):
I think emotional intelligence, youtake anything away from Goldman's
work, it's really about empathy.
It's about having a sense of empathyfor other people, understanding what
they're going through, understanding,their particular perspectives.
The leadership model that developing30 years ago has one, has one basic
foundation and that's contribution.
(20:52):
It's a contribution.
In other words, there's aproblem, there's an issue.
Let's open the door.
Anybody got any ideas?
Anybody want to help?
Let's see what we can put on thetable and see where it takes us.
And that to me is more about process.
It's more about leadershipas a practice and a process.
Have kind of turned a blind eye to thisnotion that leadership is contained
(21:14):
in the traits and the, innate personalcharacteristics of an individual.
Okay?
Because we're always waiting, it'slike we're standing on a, on a pier
waiting for that ship to pull in.
We're waiting for the, the greatleader to arrive and save us.
And the answer is nobody'sgonna come and save you.
You have to save yourself.
(21:35):
But you can do it in collaborationwith other people, that there is
talent, there's capability, andthis is a problem for leaders.
There's a problem.
I see it.
Can they be the facilitator?
Can they open up?
Allow these, this kind ofprocess to exist and go on.
And if they do, they're gonnabuild great resilience, in the
(21:58):
organization, and an ability to movequickly from one problem to another.
We're fighting years and years ofthis sort of bureaucratic mindset.
It's all about bureaucracy.
It's all about the org chart.
It's all about who's at the top ofthe pyramid and, and again, we we're
moving from who's got the loudestbullhorn to do we resonate with people?
(22:23):
And I absolutely agree on values.
150% on values, hire forvalues, work to make sure that
the values are, complimentary.
Okay?
And there's ways to do that.
There's conversations you can haveabout that and my new thing is hire for
heart, hire for values, hire for heart.
And what I mean by that is.
(22:46):
If you follow sports at all, like inAmerica, if it's a baseball game and
you're down by five runs and there's twoinnings left and you saw this, this game's
over yet a team comes back, teams comeback all the time, and they win the game.
You say, how did they do that?
It was just amazing.
And the answer is they had heart.
They have perseverance.
(23:06):
They don't care when the chips are down.
They don't care, the oddsare stacked against them.
They have heart.
Work through it.
And, and many times, heart comesfrom people who have endured
incredibly hard upbringings.
I have had, I've been blessedwith guests who have just.
(23:28):
Driven me.
Taken me to this ideaof the notion of heart.
I've had two guests that were highflyers at a young age, wound up in
prison, spent two years in prison.
Both of them came back, cameand told me, you know what?
Prison saved my life.
And now.
(23:49):
Now they're back in both doingincredible business multimillionaires
really working hard, understandingthat they took control of their lives.
They took their experiences andturned them into a, a positive.
So for me, higher forvalues, higher for heart.
And, I think that's the way we gotta,go into the future is to look at that.
(24:11):
Any reflection on that idea?
Monika Malan (24:13):
Yeah.
100%. I feel once you are confident inyourself as a leader, it makes it so
much easier to open up the doors forthat collaboration because then you are
not threatened, but other people comingup with suggestions, it really is.
Like a rising tide lifts everyone, right?
And.
(24:34):
To your point, I think it's so importantto get people on your team with the right
values and with heart, because you know,that's another thing that really irks
me, is this concept of bums in seatsand you've gotta be in front of your
computer for certain amount of hours.
The problem with that is thatyou are killing the heart.
(24:54):
You are killing.
The creativity and the passion.
I feel if you are hiring the rightpeople, they are gonna be giving
you 120% and you will never worryabout delivery or not getting what
you ask them to do, and you will nothave to micromanage, which I mean.
What manager wants to micromanage, right?
(25:16):
So I'm 100% on board with you.
I think it's really critical andso important to get the right
people on the team and open up thefloor for collaboration because
it also increases engagement andincreases participation motivation.
I can, everybody just.
It really is something magical when awhole team just gets together and puts
(25:38):
their minds together to solve something.
It's, really is next level.
It's really like the sum whatthe sum of the parts are great.
Like what does it say anyway?
Dr John Dentico (25:50):
The, the,
Monika Malan (25:50):
You're more than the sum of its
Dr John Dentico (25:52):
the whole.
Is greater than thesum of the parts, yeah,
Monika Malan (25:55):
Yeah.
That's great.
Dr John Dentico (25:58):
yeah.
And the other thing too about it is whenyou hire for values and you hire for
heart, a couple of magical things happen.
One you're gonna reduce turnoverbecause the people you hire
really want to be there.
There's this connection, as you say,and it's not a, again, I go back to
the point you made, which I thought wassolid, and that is you may be a very,
(26:18):
entrepreneurial company that loveschange and they're always changing and
they're always doing different things.
So we would need to have peoplewho like that, who believe in that
wanna be fast movers, if you will.
And then there are the more stable,companies that just, we'll make change
when we have to, but we like, there's astability here that we like and you want
the people who value that in the company.
(26:41):
And because if you mix those twochances are they're just gonna leave.
They're just gonna get up one dayand say, I can't live with this.
It just doesn't work for me.
So that's very important.
The other thing too is and thisgoes back to this meaning thing.
Meaning to me is the single greatestmotivation force on the planet.
Without a doubt.
Give people meaning great things happen.
To me if you are able to allow peopleto engage in the decision-making
(27:05):
process of the organization andthey derive meaning from the things
that they do, their work matters.
They matter.
You have an inverserelationship with burnout.
Burnout will go down.
The more meaning you can give people.
I remember in my own life,I've been burned out.
Fried is a fried crisp, the max.
(27:28):
And it was because I just feltlike there was no control.
I felt like I'd lost control,
I was trying to gain control.
And then there were timeswhen I worked ungodly hours
and you couldn't burn me out.
You couldn't burn me out.
And I remember sitting down one dayand said, well, what's the difference?
Why is that?
And the answer was because when Iwas working in an organization where
(27:50):
I felt like I made a difference, Iwas involved in charge and was doing
things, and people recognized thatand said, I was making it happen.
I would get up early in the morning, work18 hour days, and I just felt so alive.
So to me that's, very important.
I'll ask you for a reflectionon that particular idea.
Monika Malan (28:12):
No, 100%.
I agree with you.
I was in a situation where I wasworking for a company, and our values
that did not align at all, and Iwent from a fairly happy human being
to someone that hated getting up.
In the mornings, I could not like whenI look back on that time in my life, I
(28:33):
was like, I don't know how I settled forthis, but I went from a happy person to a
person who hated life within the space ofa couple of months, six to seven months.
It's such a drastic change,and yet it's so insidious
that you don't always realize.
And then because of the human brain'stendency to want, the known to stick
(28:54):
with the comfortable it's so difficultto then get out of that situation again.
But at some point you need to askyourself is, is this job really
worth your quality of life?
And so for sure, I felt so burnt outand I hated life at this company and I
(29:14):
was not working particularly long hours.
But at another company whereI had a voice, I had a say.
I loved what we were doing andI'm so passionate about it.
I easily, I worked overtime almostin the beginning, definitely
until 11 midnight every nightfor weeks on end, and I was fine.
(29:38):
I enjoyed it.
So now I 100% agree.
That is so true.
Alignment and values and heart andmeaning makes a big difference.
wish more realize that.
Dr John Dentico (29:54):
Yeah, agree.
Been writing aboutmeaning for over 25 years.
Got onto it after reading, ViktorFrankl's Man Search for Meaning, and
it was a book I read in I remember1997 and it just changed my life.
It just totally showed me the real.
Inborn side of the human that, and JosephCampbell's, the Power of Myth and the
(30:20):
Hero with a Thousand Faces, and what youfind is between Joseph Campbell and Viktor
Frankl, there is this connection point.
This connection point thatit's just so, it's profound.
And that is, I think Campbell expressedit when he said, he was asked in 1987
when he was making this televisionseries, the Power of Myth with Bill
(30:40):
Moyers, and a journalist in America.
And he said, so so Joe are we allsearching for the meaning of life?
Is that what we're allsupposed to do here?
And he said, no.
Searching for the meaning oflife is a fruitless endeavor.
He said, we're all searching forthe experience of being alive.
It's not what life means to me.
(31:02):
It's what do I mean to life?
And that to me was.
It was like a switch going offin my head that was so profound.
It has driven a lot of my work overthe course of the last 25, 30 years.
So, I agree, values, heartinvolvement, training.
(31:24):
People want to be trained, given theopportunity to get better at what they do.
So training and learningis very, very important.
Values alignment.
It's just, it's all there.
And people have to take a stepback and look at it and say,
okay, what can we do about this?
And when you do that.
If you're a leader, when you dothat, you'll unleash an unbelievable
amount of tremendous power andcreativity and ingenuity to take your
(31:49):
organization wherever you want it to go.
So ask you for yourreflection on that as well.
Monika Malan (31:55):
Yeah.
I think, to the point we made at thebeginning of our discussion around
the big shift in leadership from beingthe loudest voice to rather, leading
more collaboratively and with empathy,I feel that is where women shine.
We are more naturally inclined, to becommunity driven and to be collaborative.
(32:20):
And so I am so excited about theopportunities we have because leadership
has changed, the definition has changed,and women, we have such an innate ability
to derive meaning and be meaningfulto others and make a difference and
(32:40):
to just sweep everybody up with them.
So I'm so excited and want to bepart of that movement and just
get it going because sometimeswe are our own worst enemies.
We tend to second guess ourselves alot, and I think we've got so much to
add, so much value to add the workplace.
(33:02):
So yeah, completely.
I'm so on board witheverything you've said.
This is good conversationto be having right now.
Dr John Dentico (33:10):
Great.
I appreciate that.
Well, let me ask you as we getto the end here, let me ask
you my, world famous question.
I've asked for people from all overthe world, and that is, if you had
a magic wand and you could changeone thing in the workplace that you
see right now what would that thingbe and why did you choose that?
Monika Malan (33:28):
I think if I could wave a magic wand, I want to eliminate
self-doubt and imposter syndrome, fromeveryone, but especially from the women
those things hold them back from steppinginto the leadership with confidence.
We hesitate before speaking up.
(33:48):
We don't wanna be seen asarrogant or aggressive.
We don't put enough value on the workthat we contribute and we really need
to start owning how awesome we are.
And so I would do away with theimposter syndrome and the self-doubt
Dr John Dentico (34:04):
Yeah.
That's a great one.
I like that a lot.
I would also add this piece.
I know your orientation is towardswomen, but I would bet you money.
That there are a lot ofmen who feel that too.
A lot of young men feel thesame way and, who feel in many
respects, disenfranchised.
And, so I think if we keep more of an openperspective, that it could be anybody.
(34:28):
It's with women and it canbe with men too in many ways.
So I think we have to open the door.
When I train people, in trainingmode, I make no judgements
about people in the room.
None.
Zero.
I'm a trainer.
You put people in the room, I train them.
That's it.
It's simple.
And that's the expectation, right?
(34:49):
John's here, he is gonna trainpeople, treat 'em the same way, do
the same thing with them, and givethem the opportunity to step up and
do the things that they want to do.
Training environments that I createfor them, especially when I'm working
in my simulation work where thereare no computers, there are just 40
people in a room, and, you, you watchthe energy really once you give them
(35:12):
a problem and the energy just takesoff and it's really, really amazing.
So.
I agree.
Listen, this has been a reallywonderful conversation with you.
I can't thank you enough foryour time today, Monika, and for
all the way from South Africa,which I so greatly appreciate.
I wish you all the greatest success inthe future, good things to you and your
(35:32):
son, and, thank you again for your time.
I so appreciate it.
Monika Malan (35:36):
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
This has been a lot of fun.
And, I'm looking forward tochatting again in future.
Dr John Dentico (35:43):
I look forward to it
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