In this episode of the Throttle Up Leadership Podcast, Dr. John Dentico interviews Dr. Ravi Iyer, a TED speaker, author, coach, and transformational expert. Dr. Iyer shares insights on his upbringing in India, his career in medicine, and his approaches to overcoming psychological and emotional barriers. The conversation delves into the impact of predictability on human behavior, the role of leaders in creating safe environments for innovation, and techniques for achieving mental clarity through observation. With examples from the pandemic and personal anecdotes, Dr. Iyer emphasizes the importance of finding meaning, standing in reflective spaces, and cultivating inner silence to unlock one’s full potential.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
01:48 Early Life and Influences
03:30 Medical Career and Insights
07:01 Leadership and Predictability
11:55 Meaning Making and Innovation
23:03 Practical Exercises for Observation
28:04 Reflective Space and Quietude
32:38 Final Thoughts and Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr John Dentico (00:05):
Welcome to the Throttle Up Leadership Podcast.
Our theme for 2025 is The Futureof Work: Meaning is the New Money!
In a world shaped by rapid innovation andconstant change the pursuit of purpose
and impact has never been more important.
I'm Dr John Dentico your host,bringing over 30 years of experience
(00:28):
in leadership, strategic thinkingand purpose-driven innovation.
Here we tackle the pressing challengesof our time-from the rise of
artificial intelligence to the growingneed for meaning in the workplace.
Together we'll uncover how leaderscan ethically integrate AI to enhance
decision-making and keep humanityat the heart of their organizations.
(00:51):
Remember amidst all thetechnological advancements in the
end, it's always about the people.
This podcast is your resource foractionable tools, thought provoking
discussions and inspiring stories.
It's time to go beyond leadershipdevelopment and focus on leadership
(01:11):
impact-creating workplaces where peoplethrive, innovation flourishes and
meaning truly becomes the new currency.
Thank you for joining me on this journey.
Now, let's Throttle Up anddive into today's episode.
Hello and welcome to theThrottle Up Leadership Podcast.
It's me again, Dr John Dentico.
(01:33):
With me today is Ravi R. IyerMD a Ted speaker, author, coach,
and transformational expertdedicated to helping high achieving
individuals master inner silenceand unlock their full potential.
As the CEO of Focal Point, IR Clinicand Active Power Inc, he works with
(01:55):
C-Suite executives, entrepreneurs,celebrities and athletes guiding them
through rapid mindset shifts that leadto greater clarity, purpose and success.
Dr. Iyer's acclaimed programs, includingthe Art of Living Leadership and the
Cognitive Alignment Workshop, empowerindividuals to break free from limiting
(02:16):
beliefs and transition from a consumermindset to a creator's perspective,
allowing them to take decisive actionand free themselves from mental clutter.
As president of the Western TownCenter Toastmasters Club, Dr. Iyer is
a skilled communicator who inspiresaudiences with actionable insights
(02:38):
on mental clarity, work life balance,and aligning life with core values.
His mission through IR Focal Point isto help people discover their capacity
to create life they truly desire.
With a powerful blend of science,leadership, and personal development, Dr.
Iyer helps people shift their awarenessof self-identity, embrace change, and
(03:02):
achieve deeper fulfillment in both intheir personal and professional lives.
I'm truly pleased to havehim with me here today.
How are you, Dr. Iyer?
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (03:12):
Good morning, John.
Dr John Dentico (03:12):
Good to see you, Ravi.
Tell me where you grew up, andsome of the influence that you
had in your early personal life.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (03:21):
I was born in Bombay, but I grew up in an eastern town in India
which is, very similar to Pittsburgh.
It's a steel town situated in a valley,surrounded by iron ore and other mineral
rich hills, which serve as the conduitfor the materials used for manufacture.
(03:44):
So the two big companies, therewas a Tata, Iron and Steel Company,
Tesco and the Tata engineeringand locomotive company, Telco.
My father was a metaler just inTelco, and we lived in the company
quarters, and grew up and went to thelocal mission school, at that time.
(04:08):
And, the, growing up in India,it's like, it's a very idyllic
existence that I had, grew up.
the things that, pushed me towards, myintellectual development was, a sense
of, grounding in both the traditionalWestern way of, intellectual and personal
(04:31):
development combined with an Easternway of, herbalism that was practiced in
my family, in my house my grandmother,grandfather, if you grow up in India,
you learn it's an immersive life.
You don't go to school, butyou learn just by being there.
I picked up a lot of that andlater I managed to synthesize that
(04:53):
into my practice as a physician.
And, one of the very early in my medicalcareer, I recognized that people are not
coming to me because they have a disease.
They have something in their life thatis preventing them from enjoying life the
way they want it, and I have to fix it.
(05:16):
They come to me thinking,so I only do three things.
I either remove the obstacle preventingthem from progressing mitigate its
effect or teach them how to livewith it if I can't do the other two.
My entire life has been abouthelping people overcome the,
(05:40):
barriers of their circumstance.
in this course I found thephysical barriers or the biological
barriers were actually minor.
The vast majority are actuallyemotional, psychological, and mental
barriers, and that became evenmore prominent during the pandemic.
(06:01):
In the pandemic our clinicbecame one of Northern Virginia's
largest community COVID testing,treatment and management centers.
In the course of the pandemic, wecared for almost a hundred thousand.
We did a hundred thousand tests,10% of which were positive, so
(06:24):
about 10,000 patients over thecourse of two and a half years.
What we found was the viruswas only a portion of it.
The larger perspective was fear.
Fear was the greatercontagion than virus, and
(06:45):
the fear came out of uncertainty.
And the inability to predict what waslikely to happen in the next five minutes.
One of the insights for me duringCOVID was that the need to predict is a
fundamental requirement for all creatures.
(07:11):
What I realized during that time wasthat even in animals, a tiger that
cannot predict where the deer isgoing to appear is going to go hungry.
The deer that cannot predictwhere the tiger is going to
appear is going to get eaten.
All animals from the amoeba onwardsto the highest human are living a life
(07:35):
where they are instinctually awareof the unpredictableness of life, and
they manage this fundamental anxiety ofliving by developing coping mechanisms
that will predict the probabilityof their ability to anticipate or
(07:57):
somehow control the way life willpresent in the next five minutes.
Dr John Dentico (08:02):
Very interesting.
we all felt the unpredictabilityof the pandemic.
The uncertainty.
it was something that ran through thewhole pandemic, no matter where you were.
We were all trying to get ourarms around it and figure out
what was gonna happen next,
Will it burn itself out, for example?
those kinds of things.
(08:23):
So it's a very interesting perspective.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (08:26):
The only function of a leader is to create an environment
where their followers, their tribe,their group, have some clarity as
to how life is going to manifest.
The second thing that the leader doesis he takes the burden of failure upon
(08:53):
his shoulders and leaves the followersfree to innovate in a safe zone.
He creates a zone of safety.
The core environment that a leader createsis a zone of safety by controlling the
way life appears, either by predictionor management of risk, his followers
(09:18):
are relieved of the burden of navigatinglife, and they are set free to create.
Right now, as you and I aretalking, we are in an environment
where there is absolute chaosdue to loss of predictability,
of how life is going to happen.
(09:41):
Crazy taxes, tariffs, uncertainty whatwe have is a ship without a captain at
its helm, except we have a chaos master.
We don't have a prediction master.
And this is this fundamental problem.
If you look at Genghis Khan or Alexanderor Julius Caesar, the one thing they
(10:07):
all did for their tribe was they werebrutal for everyone else, but for their
tribe, they gave clarity and prediction.
Dr John Dentico (10:18):
I think that there comes a time when, I
talk about values alignment.
I think that's, in fact I would sayone of the chief ways to hire people
is hire them on values, ensuring thattheir values are in sync, with the
organization and vice versa, thatthe organization's values are in sync
(10:41):
with the people you're bringing in.
in terms of predictability and thefuture, I agree that a leader's job is to
create an environment where people cometo do their best work every single day.
I believe that to be absolutelycorrect, but sometimes, you
(11:02):
just have to trust the process.
You have to look at the process andsay, I'm not sure where we're gonna
go, but I believe that the groupI'm part of, is going to take me
to the place that I want to go to.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (11:17):
Absolutely.
sometimes the leader willmake a unilateral decision and
demand trust in the process.
But the one thing that you wannalook at is, is the leader willing to
hold himself accountable for failureif the leader has a track record?
Where he never holds himself accountablefor failure constantly, demands everyone
(11:41):
to trust the process, but never holdsthemselves accountable for failure.
Then you don't have a leader.
you have someone who has might
and can demand that he's right or she'sright, A leader will have skin in the game
Dr John Dentico (12:04):
I agree that a leader needs to be vulnerable
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (12:08):
We don't have leaders like that now.
What we have is a bunch ofpeople with power, but we don't
have people who are leaders.
it may emerge.
I don't know.
I definitely want it to emerge andI would love to be proved wrong.
Dr John Dentico (12:24):
I've had many guests on before that have talked about the
importance of the vulnerability ofa leader to say, I made a mistake.
I didn't get it right, but.
To say, okay, this is how we're gonna
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (12:36):
This is how we are gonna set it right
Dr John Dentico (12:37):
Right.
This is how we're gonna set it right.
My model of leadership that I starteddeveloping 30 years ago, is based on one
foundation, and that is contribution.
We have a problem.
Who wants to help us?
who wants to jump in and helpus take this initiative forward.
I think that's very important becausethat allows individual talent to
(13:02):
become involved in a collaborative,interdependent, unified action to move
the organization or group forward.
a leader has to say,Hey, I made a mistake.
And, we're gonna fix it.
I think there has to be a partwhere a leader is able to do that.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (13:21):
Segueing away from the immediacy of our environment
clouds our judgment and we are notable to have a clear discussion The
other thing I, recognized during thepandemic was that people have two
aspects to their personality withthe with which they navigate reality.
(13:49):
One is a ability to perceive realityin terms of being able to observe.
And the second is the ability to createan interpretation of what they observe.
Usually the interpreting aspect ofour minds is operating so close to the
(14:10):
observation that there is no separation,
I call this interpreting partthe meaning making machine.
The meaning making machinehas only one function.
to predict what is likely to happen and toidentify what is advantages for yourself.
(14:35):
Then of course, position yourself suchthat you can capture that advantage.
And people first do it for themselves,then for their immediate group, their
tribe, their team, their organization.
In successful layers of the onion skin,you are only doing this predictive
meaning making interpretation
(14:59):
The problem is a lot of theinterpretations that you make
on observation is past based onmemory of previous events because
the brain is fundamentally lazy.
It'll pull out a cookie cutter examplefrom the past and apply it to the present
(15:20):
rather than create a whole new strategy'cause it's so much more energetically
costly to rethink your strategy each time.
In the interest of efficiency, youfrequently will pull a tool from
your experiential toolbox to use.
(15:40):
Most of the time it works, but thecost of that is that you are creating
your future based upon the past.
So in many ways, your futurewill mirror your past.
And you will project yourpast upon the future.
So you recreate your past in manyflavors and variations into the future.
(16:04):
So you never innovate.
To truly innovate, you have to observe andlet this meaning making machine, create
whatever it may, but not reach for it.
Allow the observationto reveal new meaning.
That is a skill most people don't develop.
Dr John Dentico (16:27):
The guy that has impressed me with those kinds of
ideas is a guy named Gary Klein whowrote about something called RPD
Recognition, primed Decision Making.
He's the guy who really talked about thebrain having a file drawer, the brain has
a file drawer, and as we go through life.
(16:48):
Our experiences, fill that file drawer,
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (16:53):
I call it the Pink Floyd brick in the wall.
Dr John Dentico (16:58):
Pink Floyd Brick in the wall.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (16:59):
You know that song?
Dr John Dentico (17:01):
I'm not familiar with the song.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (17:02):
Look it up later
Dr John Dentico (17:04):
will do that
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (17:04):
You'll love the song.
Dr John Dentico (17:06):
So in RPD, recognition, prime decision making
when you encounter an issue, yousee this in things like police
officers and firefighters or nurses.
For a firefighter maybe they'vehad 10, 12 years of experience,
They've been through many fires,and the brain goes, wait a minute.
(17:27):
I've seen this before, goes to thefile drawer, rummages through and
says, oh yeah, it looks like this.
Sort of like this and this.
And in a blink of an eye putsthose three things together and
projects what the solution ison a particular, fire or event.
(17:48):
Recognition Prime Decision Making isjust the way the brain does business.
It's automatic and natural.
However,
when a person or brainencounters some new circumstance.
That's where breakthroughs can be made.
(18:08):
That's where one has to, take a step back,and say, wait a minute, we can't use the
same methodology we've used in the past.
I'll give you a great example of thatChatGPT or AI systems, aI systems are
rewriting many things that perhapswe thought we had the solution.
(18:35):
Now we're seeing a solution, orat least the pathway to different
solutions presented in different ways.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (18:44):
So
Dr John Dentico (18:45):
I wrote about that in my book, brain mechanics and all about
learning because I was on the roadto learning how does the brain learn
and How can you change the learningor influence the learning so that
the brain can put different thingsin the file drawer meaning a story.
(19:07):
A story carries twothings, logic and meaning.
they're very hard to separate in a story.
You have to have a certain levelof logic but the logic has to mean
something to you at the same time.
Stories are so powerful because,They bring meaning and logic it's how
people are engaged with those storiesthey, are involved in an interactive
(19:31):
story making experience that theyare able to take new ideas and put
in their file drawer for future use.
I'd love to get your response to that.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (19:42):
So the first thing is when I start teaching people
about this meaning making machinethat we are born with, I say
that, the meaning making machine.
is as needed and vital as your heartfor pumping blood, and your digestive
system for processing nutrients.
The meaning making machine, just like yourdigestive system has only one purpose, the
(20:04):
preservation and propagation of your body.
If you didn't have a meaning makingmachine, you would die because you would
not be able to interact with the world,and the world will just destroy you.
So you need the meaning making machine,but you, you need to also understand
(20:25):
that the meaning making machine trapsyou into a rigid set of responses which
are pass based and therefore, just likeChatGPT is RPD on steroids basically.
And the meaning machine isvaluable only when you control
(20:46):
it and not it controls you.
The only way to control your meaningmaking machine is to be capable
of establishing yourself in theobservational field and allow the
machine to operate in the background,Don't hold on to the meanings.
cultivate that three seconds ofseparation that naturally exists
(21:10):
between observation and meaning.
You stand in that space and you'llsee, and that is the eye of clarity,
because in that space you cansee it's the eye of the storm.
Around you is whirling all themeanings that your brain is popping
up for that particular observationaland you can then choose which
(21:32):
meaning you want to give power to.
That is aligned withthe goals of the moment.
In that sense, you have true clarityand leadership and you have true choice.
Otherwise, you are just being impelledby your meaning making machine to
go to the easiest option available.
(21:55):
to cultivate that requires skill.
It requires certain practice, becauseright from childhood, our observational
cap capabilities are quickly dull down.
You know, our teachers will pop up andapple and say apple without letting us
create an alternative meaning for thatround red object, We become conditioned to
(22:21):
reaching for the file draw all the time.
Instead of just observing you need toalso be able to control observation,
you can't just go off into a zombietrance in every board meeting,
because 80% of your decisions aregoing to be file draw decisions and
(22:43):
20% are going to be observational.
Dr John Dentico (22:46):
For my money, meaning is the single greatest
motivation force on the planet.
There's no question about it for me.
if you lose, meaning you die becauseyou have no sense of your of own
place in the world, for example.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (23:03):
That's what happens in Alzheimer's patients.
They're unable to createnew meaning for themselves.
Dr John Dentico (23:09):
It's interesting.
I've had about a half a dozen peopleon the podcast who have endured
unbelievable strife in their life.
Unbelievable.
two, went to prison,
One, two, went to prison, came outtaprison and said prison saved their lives.
They had been doing well for themselves,but got mixed up with the wrong people
(23:31):
or drugs and prison saved their lives.
They were able to construct new meaning.
Create a new pathway for the future andnow they're both doing extremely well.
So I agree with you.
I think one of the most important thingsthat we have today, is this ability
(23:52):
to, if we take the time to do it, ifwe don't abdicate our responsibility
to do it, to survey, the informationlandscape through the internet.
Through AI tools and be open to whatwe see in order to form new meanings.
(24:13):
I'm not trapped by yesterday'sideas and thoughts.
I wanna be able to see.
Clearly in the new world.
And the issue of course is itchanges so rapidly every day
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (24:26):
Yes.
Dr John Dentico (24:27):
It's crazy.
let me ask you this, Ravi, youtalk about this three seconds.
This ability to differentiatein the practices you have, how
do you specifically help peoplestand in that three seconds,
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (24:46):
I can do that for you right now.
Alright.
I want you to pay attention to thecontact of your bottom, to your chair.
focus on that.
Dr John Dentico (25:04):
Okay.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (25:05):
Keep doing that.
I want you to be aware of the way yourbottom interacts with the surface of
the chair upon which it rests, thefeel of it, the pressure, any fabrics,
texture that you are able to perceive
(25:32):
and now come back here whileyou were on focus there.
Where did John Denticothe idea of John Dentico?
It disappears when you arein that observation state
because the idea of John Denticois one of the many meanings
(25:55):
that you have in your life.
The meaning making machine alwaysshuts off in intense observation.
This is the reason why people jumpoff bridges with a bungee cord.
This is the reason why theyjump off a cliff on a wingsuit
(26:19):
when life itself is threatened, meaningmaking stops, and pure observation exists,
and it's exhilarating to be in that space.
This is the reason why peoplelose themselves in a kiss.
they lose identity and it's inthis freedom of space that they
(26:48):
experience pure observation.
True creativity and innovationresides in that space when you
start practicing observation.
You can use the entireworld to practice this.
I usually tell people after I takethem through the chair exercise, to do
five minutes of observation every day.
(27:10):
Get up in the morning, simplethings, turning on the tap
in the sink while you shave.
Let the water keep flowing.
Put a finger into the flow.
Focus entirely on the contact ofthe flow of water over your figures.
(27:30):
Practice this.
The Japanese tea ceremony isan observational exercise.
It's an exercise in mergingobservation with activity.
Once you recognize that activityand observation are not animical to
each other, you, because it's rightnow animical because you can't do it
(27:55):
with because you're not developed.
It's like bicycle.
you have no balance, sotherefore you're gonna fall.
But with practice you develop theability to observe and stay in action
and outta that, you develop the abilityto master the meaning making machine.
Dr John Dentico (28:15):
I have, always thought that, the reason I'm a big fan of the
great scholar of mythology, JosephCampbell one of Campbell's greatest
one-liners was once asked by BillMoyers in, in the creation of this,
PBS special called, the Power of Myth.
He said, Moyers asked him, soJoe, is it that we're trying
(28:38):
to find the meaning of life?
his response was to search forthe meaning of life is futile.
We search for theexperience of being alive.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (28:47):
Yes,
Dr John Dentico (28:48):
how do I engage with
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (28:50):
life?
Correct.
Dr John Dentico (28:51):
And it's very interesting because I've always used bungee jumping
as an example Jumping off a bridgewith the bungee attached to you in
that moment, you are experiencing life.
As you say, you are coming asclose to experiencing life with the
exhilaration that anyone muster,
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (29:15):
Yeah.
Dr John Dentico (29:16):
I think also your point of being in this quiet
space, reflective if you will,some people would use that term
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (29:24):
The Buddhist people, call it noble silence,
Dr John Dentico (29:30):
So why don't you talk a little bit about the importance of
being in that reflective quiet space.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (29:36):
So the person in that reflective space does not really
reflect too much about the being of it.
He just is.
It's the people around him that look athim, and say he's in a reflective space
and so on but there's enormous power.
Being in that space.
The other thing that happens is whenyou are in that space and come in
(30:00):
contact with people, they get suckedinto their observational spaces
internally by just being in your presence
they experience expansion and becomeproductive around you because you carry
this bubble of observational quietude.
(30:20):
If you want to call it.
And in that quietude, the chaosof the world dims somewhat.
The urgency of many things becomeless urgent, and people experience
space and time as their servantsrather than their masters.
(30:44):
Right now, everyone lives a hurried life,one of constant, not enough time, not
enough love, not enough wealth, not enoughhealth, and in that quiet space, there is
never any lack of resources because allresources emerge from that quiet space,
(31:07):
and it becomes very easy to tap intoproductiveness and you just kind of dance
through life because there's no pressure.
Dr John Dentico (31:16):
It's very interesting.
I've always thought that many people aremoving so rapidly through life because
they're trying to escape from their past.
What they don't know is, and they'll findout eventually, you can only run so fast
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (31:37):
Yeah,
Dr John Dentico (31:37):
after a while it's gonna catch up to you.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (31:40):
yep.
Dr John Dentico (31:41):
You're gonna have to deal with it and face it and walk the
fire, through it to get to the other side.
So that's always been my observationof living a hurried life.
If you don't slow down and take the timeto invest in your own self in thought.
I don't know how much peopleare thinking nowadays.
(32:03):
You know, they react, they
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (32:05):
Yeah,
Dr John Dentico (32:06):
as opposed to actually taking the time to
say, let me think through this.
I need some time to just be withthis idea or be with this thought
in order for me to move forward.
What do you think
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (32:21):
the ability to carry your own bubble of quietude around you
allows you the space to think and letlife, unravel in your internal space.
The other thing is it removesurgency of having to respond
immediately to everything.
there are a lot of people who are.
(32:42):
The, so one of the things that I tryto, tell people is this American macho
attitude of chest thumping testosterone,grind your leway through life.
You know, I say all you're going to dois, sandpaper yourself out of existence.
you are not going to achieve anything,and life is not a constant battle.
(33:07):
It is a battle if you're alwaysgoing to fight the current, but
if you flow with it, you'll beamazed how easy it is to win.
Dr John Dentico (33:18):
Yeah.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (33:19):
It's so easy to win that it feels like cheating.
Dr John Dentico (33:23):
I think that you have to understand how to be with it.
You have to understandhow to be with life,
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (33:29):
it is the being of things that people are lost in
Dr John Dentico (33:33):
What comes to mind when you talk about, this instantaneous
response kind of thing is people textingif you don't respond immediately.
Does that send the messagethat you don't care?
I guess it does to some people.
if I'm behind the wheel of a car, ifI don't respond immediately, people
will think I've dropped off theface of the Earth or I don't care.
(33:55):
It's like, you gotta calm down.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (33:58):
Yeah.
Dr John Dentico (33:59):
Just calm down.
Let's start there well, we'regetting close to the end.
Ravi, I'll ask you my questionas we get close to the end.
If you had a magic wand and youcould change anything that you deal
with in the world and you see itin your work life, what would that
issue be and why did you choose that?
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (34:17):
No, if I had a magic wand, I would seek myself to be grounded
in observation, so unshakably thatanyone who comes in my presence would
get grounded the same rootedness that Iexperienced, any disturbance that people
(34:39):
experience when they come in my life isdue to the fact that at that moment, the
depth of my own anchoring in observationis not sufficient to anchor them.
So all I need is toanchor myself, unshakably.
Dr John Dentico (34:58):
Yeah, the law of attraction.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (35:00):
Said that would be my magic wand.
Dr John Dentico (35:02):
That's a good one.
And I wish you great success in this.
Listen, Ravi, thank you so verymuch for being here with me today.
I truly appreciate it and I wishyou all the success in the future.
good luck to you and thank you again.
Welcome to the Throttle Up Leadership Podcast.
Our theme for 2025 is The Futureof Work: Meaning is the New Money!
In a world shaped by rapid innovation andconstant change the pursuit of purpose
and impact has never been more important.
I'm Dr John Dentico your host,bringing over 30 years of experience
(00:28):
in leadership, strategic thinkingand purpose-driven innovation.
Here we tackle the pressing challengesof our time-from the rise of
artificial intelligence to the growingneed for meaning in the workplace.
Together we'll uncover how leaderscan ethically integrate AI to enhance
decision-making and keep humanityat the heart of their organizations.
(00:51):
Remember amidst all thetechnological advancements in the
end, it's always about the people.
This podcast is your resource foractionable tools, thought provoking
discussions and inspiring stories.
It's time to go beyond leadershipdevelopment and focus on leadership
(01:11):
impact-creating workplaces where peoplethrive, innovation flourishes and
meaning truly becomes the new currency.
Thank you for joining me on this journey.
Now, let's Throttle Up anddive into today's episode.
Hello and welcome to theThrottle Up Leadership Podcast.
It's me again, Dr John Dentico.
(01:33):
With me today is Ravi R. IyerMD a Ted speaker, author, coach,
and transformational expertdedicated to helping high achieving
individuals master inner silenceand unlock their full potential.
As the CEO of Focal Point, IR Clinicand Active Power Inc, he works with
(01:55):
C-Suite executives, entrepreneurs,celebrities and athletes guiding them
through rapid mindset shifts that leadto greater clarity, purpose and success.
Dr. Iyer's acclaimed programs, includingthe Art of Living Leadership and the
Cognitive Alignment Workshop, empowerindividuals to break free from limiting
(02:16):
beliefs and transition from a consumermindset to a creator's perspective,
allowing them to take decisive actionand free themselves from mental clutter.
As president of the Western TownCenter Toastmasters Club, Dr. Iyer is
a skilled communicator who inspiresaudiences with actionable insights
(02:38):
on mental clarity, work life balance,and aligning life with core values.
His mission through IR Focal Point isto help people discover their capacity
to create life they truly desire.
With a powerful blend of science,leadership, and personal development, Dr.
Iyer helps people shift their awarenessof self-identity, embrace change, and
(03:02):
achieve deeper fulfillment in both intheir personal and professional lives.
I'm truly pleased to havehim with me here today.
How are you, Dr. Iyer?
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (03:12):
Good morning, John.
Dr John Dentico (03:12):
Good to see you, Ravi.
Tell me where you grew up, andsome of the influence that you
had in your early personal life.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (03:21):
I was born in Bombay, but I grew up in an eastern town in India
which is, very similar to Pittsburgh.
It's a steel town situated in a valley,surrounded by iron ore and other mineral
rich hills, which serve as the conduitfor the materials used for manufacture.
(03:44):
So the two big companies, therewas a Tata, Iron and Steel Company,
Tesco and the Tata engineeringand locomotive company, Telco.
My father was a metaler just inTelco, and we lived in the company
quarters, and grew up and went to thelocal mission school, at that time.
(04:08):
And, the, growing up in India,it's like, it's a very idyllic
existence that I had, grew up.
the things that, pushed me towards, myintellectual development was, a sense
of, grounding in both the traditionalWestern way of, intellectual and personal
(04:31):
development combined with an Easternway of, herbalism that was practiced in
my family, in my house my grandmother,grandfather, if you grow up in India,
you learn it's an immersive life.
You don't go to school, butyou learn just by being there.
I picked up a lot of that andlater I managed to synthesize that
(04:53):
into my practice as a physician.
And, one of the very early in my medicalcareer, I recognized that people are not
coming to me because they have a disease.
They have something in their life thatis preventing them from enjoying life the
way they want it, and I have to fix it.
(05:16):
They come to me thinking,so I only do three things.
I either remove the obstacle preventingthem from progressing mitigate its
effect or teach them how to livewith it if I can't do the other two.
My entire life has been abouthelping people overcome the,
(05:40):
barriers of their circumstance.
in this course I found thephysical barriers or the biological
barriers were actually minor.
The vast majority are actuallyemotional, psychological, and mental
barriers, and that became evenmore prominent during the pandemic.
(06:01):
In the pandemic our clinicbecame one of Northern Virginia's
largest community COVID testing,treatment and management centers.
In the course of the pandemic, wecared for almost a hundred thousand.
We did a hundred thousand tests,10% of which were positive, so
(06:24):
about 10,000 patients over thecourse of two and a half years.
What we found was the viruswas only a portion of it.
The larger perspective was fear.
Fear was the greatercontagion than virus, and
(06:45):
the fear came out of uncertainty.
And the inability to predict what waslikely to happen in the next five minutes.
One of the insights for me duringCOVID was that the need to predict is a
fundamental requirement for all creatures.
(07:11):
What I realized during that time wasthat even in animals, a tiger that
cannot predict where the deer isgoing to appear is going to go hungry.
The deer that cannot predictwhere the tiger is going to
appear is going to get eaten.
All animals from the amoeba onwardsto the highest human are living a life
(07:35):
where they are instinctually awareof the unpredictableness of life, and
they manage this fundamental anxiety ofliving by developing coping mechanisms
that will predict the probabilityof their ability to anticipate or
(07:57):
somehow control the way life willpresent in the next five minutes.
Dr John Dentico (08:02):
Very interesting.
we all felt the unpredictabilityof the pandemic.
The uncertainty.
it was something that ran through thewhole pandemic, no matter where you were.
We were all trying to get ourarms around it and figure out
what was gonna happen next,
Will it burn itself out, for example?
those kinds of things.
(08:23):
So it's a very interesting perspective.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (08:26):
The only function of a leader is to create an environment
where their followers, their tribe,their group, have some clarity as
to how life is going to manifest.
The second thing that the leader doesis he takes the burden of failure upon
(08:53):
his shoulders and leaves the followersfree to innovate in a safe zone.
He creates a zone of safety.
The core environment that a leader createsis a zone of safety by controlling the
way life appears, either by predictionor management of risk, his followers
(09:18):
are relieved of the burden of navigatinglife, and they are set free to create.
Right now, as you and I aretalking, we are in an environment
where there is absolute chaosdue to loss of predictability,
of how life is going to happen.
(09:41):
Crazy taxes, tariffs, uncertainty whatwe have is a ship without a captain at
its helm, except we have a chaos master.
We don't have a prediction master.
And this is this fundamental problem.
If you look at Genghis Khan or Alexanderor Julius Caesar, the one thing they
(10:07):
all did for their tribe was they werebrutal for everyone else, but for their
tribe, they gave clarity and prediction.
Dr John Dentico (10:18):
I think that there comes a time when, I
talk about values alignment.
I think that's, in fact I would sayone of the chief ways to hire people
is hire them on values, ensuring thattheir values are in sync, with the
organization and vice versa, thatthe organization's values are in sync
(10:41):
with the people you're bringing in.
in terms of predictability and thefuture, I agree that a leader's job is to
create an environment where people cometo do their best work every single day.
I believe that to be absolutelycorrect, but sometimes, you
(11:02):
just have to trust the process.
You have to look at the process andsay, I'm not sure where we're gonna
go, but I believe that the groupI'm part of, is going to take me
to the place that I want to go to.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (11:17):
Absolutely.
sometimes the leader willmake a unilateral decision and
demand trust in the process.
But the one thing that you wannalook at is, is the leader willing to
hold himself accountable for failureif the leader has a track record?
Where he never holds himself accountablefor failure constantly, demands everyone
(11:41):
to trust the process, but never holdsthemselves accountable for failure.
Then you don't have a leader.
you have someone who has might
and can demand that he's right or she'sright, A leader will have skin in the game
Dr John Dentico (12:04):
I agree that a leader needs to be vulnerable
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (12:08):
We don't have leaders like that now.
What we have is a bunch ofpeople with power, but we don't
have people who are leaders.
it may emerge.
I don't know.
I definitely want it to emerge andI would love to be proved wrong.
Dr John Dentico (12:24):
I've had many guests on before that have talked about the
importance of the vulnerability ofa leader to say, I made a mistake.
I didn't get it right, but.
To say, okay, this is how we're gonna
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (12:36):
This is how we are gonna set it right
Dr John Dentico (12:37):
Right.
This is how we're gonna set it right.
My model of leadership that I starteddeveloping 30 years ago, is based on one
foundation, and that is contribution.
We have a problem.
Who wants to help us?
who wants to jump in and helpus take this initiative forward.
I think that's very important becausethat allows individual talent to
(13:02):
become involved in a collaborative,interdependent, unified action to move
the organization or group forward.
a leader has to say,Hey, I made a mistake.
And, we're gonna fix it.
I think there has to be a partwhere a leader is able to do that.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (13:21):
Segueing away from the immediacy of our environment
clouds our judgment and we are notable to have a clear discussion The
other thing I, recognized during thepandemic was that people have two
aspects to their personality withthe with which they navigate reality.
(13:49):
One is a ability to perceive realityin terms of being able to observe.
And the second is the ability to createan interpretation of what they observe.
Usually the interpreting aspect ofour minds is operating so close to the
(14:10):
observation that there is no separation,
I call this interpreting partthe meaning making machine.
The meaning making machinehas only one function.
to predict what is likely to happen and toidentify what is advantages for yourself.
(14:35):
Then of course, position yourself suchthat you can capture that advantage.
And people first do it for themselves,then for their immediate group, their
tribe, their team, their organization.
In successful layers of the onion skin,you are only doing this predictive
meaning making interpretation
(14:59):
The problem is a lot of theinterpretations that you make
on observation is past based onmemory of previous events because
the brain is fundamentally lazy.
It'll pull out a cookie cutter examplefrom the past and apply it to the present
(15:20):
rather than create a whole new strategy'cause it's so much more energetically
costly to rethink your strategy each time.
In the interest of efficiency, youfrequently will pull a tool from
your experiential toolbox to use.
(15:40):
Most of the time it works, but thecost of that is that you are creating
your future based upon the past.
So in many ways, your futurewill mirror your past.
And you will project yourpast upon the future.
So you recreate your past in manyflavors and variations into the future.
(16:04):
So you never innovate.
To truly innovate, you have to observe andlet this meaning making machine, create
whatever it may, but not reach for it.
Allow the observationto reveal new meaning.
That is a skill most people don't develop.
Dr John Dentico (16:27):
The guy that has impressed me with those kinds of
ideas is a guy named Gary Klein whowrote about something called RPD
Recognition, primed Decision Making.
He's the guy who really talked about thebrain having a file drawer, the brain has
a file drawer, and as we go through life.
(16:48):
Our experiences, fill that file drawer,
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (16:53):
I call it the Pink Floyd brick in the wall.
Dr John Dentico (16:58):
Pink Floyd Brick in the wall.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (16:59):
You know that song?
Dr John Dentico (17:01):
I'm not familiar with the song.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (17:02):
Look it up later
Dr John Dentico (17:04):
will do that
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (17:04):
You'll love the song.
Dr John Dentico (17:06):
So in RPD, recognition, prime decision making
when you encounter an issue, yousee this in things like police
officers and firefighters or nurses.
For a firefighter maybe they'vehad 10, 12 years of experience,
They've been through many fires,and the brain goes, wait a minute.
(17:27):
I've seen this before, goes to thefile drawer, rummages through and
says, oh yeah, it looks like this.
Sort of like this and this.
And in a blink of an eye putsthose three things together and
projects what the solution ison a particular, fire or event.
(17:48):
Recognition Prime Decision Making isjust the way the brain does business.
It's automatic and natural.
However,
when a person or brainencounters some new circumstance.
That's where breakthroughs can be made.
(18:08):
That's where one has to, take a step back,and say, wait a minute, we can't use the
same methodology we've used in the past.
I'll give you a great example of thatChatGPT or AI systems, aI systems are
rewriting many things that perhapswe thought we had the solution.
(18:35):
Now we're seeing a solution, orat least the pathway to different
solutions presented in different ways.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (18:44):
So
Dr John Dentico (18:45):
I wrote about that in my book, brain mechanics and all about
learning because I was on the roadto learning how does the brain learn
and How can you change the learningor influence the learning so that
the brain can put different thingsin the file drawer meaning a story.
(19:07):
A story carries twothings, logic and meaning.
they're very hard to separate in a story.
You have to have a certain levelof logic but the logic has to mean
something to you at the same time.
Stories are so powerful because,They bring meaning and logic it's how
people are engaged with those storiesthey, are involved in an interactive
(19:31):
story making experience that theyare able to take new ideas and put
in their file drawer for future use.
I'd love to get your response to that.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (19:42):
So the first thing is when I start teaching people
about this meaning making machinethat we are born with, I say
that, the meaning making machine.
is as needed and vital as your heartfor pumping blood, and your digestive
system for processing nutrients.
The meaning making machine, just like yourdigestive system has only one purpose, the
(20:04):
preservation and propagation of your body.
If you didn't have a meaning makingmachine, you would die because you would
not be able to interact with the world,and the world will just destroy you.
So you need the meaning making machine,but you, you need to also understand
(20:25):
that the meaning making machine trapsyou into a rigid set of responses which
are pass based and therefore, just likeChatGPT is RPD on steroids basically.
And the meaning machine isvaluable only when you control
(20:46):
it and not it controls you.
The only way to control your meaningmaking machine is to be capable
of establishing yourself in theobservational field and allow the
machine to operate in the background,Don't hold on to the meanings.
cultivate that three seconds ofseparation that naturally exists
(21:10):
between observation and meaning.
You stand in that space and you'llsee, and that is the eye of clarity,
because in that space you cansee it's the eye of the storm.
Around you is whirling all themeanings that your brain is popping
up for that particular observationaland you can then choose which
(21:32):
meaning you want to give power to.
That is aligned withthe goals of the moment.
In that sense, you have true clarityand leadership and you have true choice.
Otherwise, you are just being impelledby your meaning making machine to
go to the easiest option available.
(21:55):
to cultivate that requires skill.
It requires certain practice, becauseright from childhood, our observational
cap capabilities are quickly dull down.
You know, our teachers will pop up andapple and say apple without letting us
create an alternative meaning for thatround red object, We become conditioned to
(22:21):
reaching for the file draw all the time.
Instead of just observing you need toalso be able to control observation,
you can't just go off into a zombietrance in every board meeting,
because 80% of your decisions aregoing to be file draw decisions and
(22:43):
20% are going to be observational.
Dr John Dentico (22:46):
For my money, meaning is the single greatest
motivation force on the planet.
There's no question about it for me.
if you lose, meaning you die becauseyou have no sense of your of own
place in the world, for example.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (23:03):
That's what happens in Alzheimer's patients.
They're unable to createnew meaning for themselves.
Dr John Dentico (23:09):
It's interesting.
I've had about a half a dozen peopleon the podcast who have endured
unbelievable strife in their life.
Unbelievable.
two, went to prison,
One, two, went to prison, came outtaprison and said prison saved their lives.
They had been doing well for themselves,but got mixed up with the wrong people
(23:31):
or drugs and prison saved their lives.
They were able to construct new meaning.
Create a new pathway for the future andnow they're both doing extremely well.
So I agree with you.
I think one of the most important thingsthat we have today, is this ability
(23:52):
to, if we take the time to do it, ifwe don't abdicate our responsibility
to do it, to survey, the informationlandscape through the internet.
Through AI tools and be open to whatwe see in order to form new meanings.
(24:13):
I'm not trapped by yesterday'sideas and thoughts.
I wanna be able to see.
Clearly in the new world.
And the issue of course is itchanges so rapidly every day
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (24:26):
Yes.
Dr John Dentico (24:27):
It's crazy.
let me ask you this, Ravi, youtalk about this three seconds.
This ability to differentiatein the practices you have, how
do you specifically help peoplestand in that three seconds,
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (24:46):
I can do that for you right now.
Alright.
I want you to pay attention to thecontact of your bottom, to your chair.
focus on that.
Dr John Dentico (25:04):
Okay.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (25:05):
Keep doing that.
I want you to be aware of the way yourbottom interacts with the surface of
the chair upon which it rests, thefeel of it, the pressure, any fabrics,
texture that you are able to perceive
(25:32):
and now come back here whileyou were on focus there.
Where did John Denticothe idea of John Dentico?
It disappears when you arein that observation state
because the idea of John Denticois one of the many meanings
(25:55):
that you have in your life.
The meaning making machine alwaysshuts off in intense observation.
This is the reason why people jumpoff bridges with a bungee cord.
This is the reason why theyjump off a cliff on a wingsuit
(26:19):
when life itself is threatened, meaningmaking stops, and pure observation exists,
and it's exhilarating to be in that space.
This is the reason why peoplelose themselves in a kiss.
they lose identity and it's inthis freedom of space that they
(26:48):
experience pure observation.
True creativity and innovationresides in that space when you
start practicing observation.
You can use the entireworld to practice this.
I usually tell people after I takethem through the chair exercise, to do
five minutes of observation every day.
(27:10):
Get up in the morning, simplethings, turning on the tap
in the sink while you shave.
Let the water keep flowing.
Put a finger into the flow.
Focus entirely on the contact ofthe flow of water over your figures.
(27:30):
Practice this.
The Japanese tea ceremony isan observational exercise.
It's an exercise in mergingobservation with activity.
Once you recognize that activityand observation are not animical to
each other, you, because it's rightnow animical because you can't do it
(27:55):
with because you're not developed.
It's like bicycle.
you have no balance, sotherefore you're gonna fall.
But with practice you develop theability to observe and stay in action
and outta that, you develop the abilityto master the meaning making machine.
Dr John Dentico (28:15):
I have, always thought that, the reason I'm a big fan of the
great scholar of mythology, JosephCampbell one of Campbell's greatest
one-liners was once asked by BillMoyers in, in the creation of this,
PBS special called, the Power of Myth.
He said, Moyers asked him, soJoe, is it that we're trying
(28:38):
to find the meaning of life?
his response was to search forthe meaning of life is futile.
We search for theexperience of being alive.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (28:47):
Yes,
Dr John Dentico (28:48):
how do I engage with
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (28:50):
life?
Correct.
Dr John Dentico (28:51):
And it's very interesting because I've always used bungee jumping
as an example Jumping off a bridgewith the bungee attached to you in
that moment, you are experiencing life.
As you say, you are coming asclose to experiencing life with the
exhilaration that anyone muster,
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (29:15):
Yeah.
Dr John Dentico (29:16):
I think also your point of being in this quiet
space, reflective if you will,some people would use that term
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (29:24):
The Buddhist people, call it noble silence,
Dr John Dentico (29:30):
So why don't you talk a little bit about the importance of
being in that reflective quiet space.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (29:36):
So the person in that reflective space does not really
reflect too much about the being of it.
He just is.
It's the people around him that look athim, and say he's in a reflective space
and so on but there's enormous power.
Being in that space.
The other thing that happens is whenyou are in that space and come in
(30:00):
contact with people, they get suckedinto their observational spaces
internally by just being in your presence
they experience expansion and becomeproductive around you because you carry
this bubble of observational quietude.
(30:20):
If you want to call it.
And in that quietude, the chaosof the world dims somewhat.
The urgency of many things becomeless urgent, and people experience
space and time as their servantsrather than their masters.
(30:44):
Right now, everyone lives a hurried life,one of constant, not enough time, not
enough love, not enough wealth, not enoughhealth, and in that quiet space, there is
never any lack of resources because allresources emerge from that quiet space,
(31:07):
and it becomes very easy to tap intoproductiveness and you just kind of dance
through life because there's no pressure.
Dr John Dentico (31:16):
It's very interesting.
I've always thought that many people aremoving so rapidly through life because
they're trying to escape from their past.
What they don't know is, and they'll findout eventually, you can only run so fast
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (31:37):
Yeah,
Dr John Dentico (31:37):
after a while it's gonna catch up to you.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (31:40):
yep.
Dr John Dentico (31:41):
You're gonna have to deal with it and face it and walk the
fire, through it to get to the other side.
So that's always been my observationof living a hurried life.
If you don't slow down and take the timeto invest in your own self in thought.
I don't know how much peopleare thinking nowadays.
(32:03):
You know, they react, they
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (32:05):
Yeah,
Dr John Dentico (32:06):
as opposed to actually taking the time to
say, let me think through this.
I need some time to just be withthis idea or be with this thought
in order for me to move forward.
What do you think
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (32:21):
the ability to carry your own bubble of quietude around you
allows you the space to think and letlife, unravel in your internal space.
The other thing is it removesurgency of having to respond
immediately to everything.
there are a lot of people who are.
(32:42):
The, so one of the things that I tryto, tell people is this American macho
attitude of chest thumping testosterone,grind your leway through life.
You know, I say all you're going to dois, sandpaper yourself out of existence.
you are not going to achieve anything,and life is not a constant battle.
(33:07):
It is a battle if you're alwaysgoing to fight the current, but
if you flow with it, you'll beamazed how easy it is to win.
Dr John Dentico (33:18):
Yeah.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (33:19):
It's so easy to win that it feels like cheating.
Dr John Dentico (33:23):
I think that you have to understand how to be with it.
You have to understandhow to be with life,
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (33:29):
it is the being of things that people are lost in
Dr John Dentico (33:33):
What comes to mind when you talk about, this instantaneous
response kind of thing is people textingif you don't respond immediately.
Does that send the messagethat you don't care?
I guess it does to some people.
if I'm behind the wheel of a car, ifI don't respond immediately, people
will think I've dropped off theface of the Earth or I don't care.
(33:55):
It's like, you gotta calm down.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (33:58):
Yeah.
Dr John Dentico (33:59):
Just calm down.
Let's start there well, we'regetting close to the end.
Ravi, I'll ask you my questionas we get close to the end.
If you had a magic wand and youcould change anything that you deal
with in the world and you see itin your work life, what would that
issue be and why did you choose that?
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (34:17):
No, if I had a magic wand, I would seek myself to be grounded
in observation, so unshakably thatanyone who comes in my presence would
get grounded the same rootedness that Iexperienced, any disturbance that people
(34:39):
experience when they come in my life isdue to the fact that at that moment, the
depth of my own anchoring in observationis not sufficient to anchor them.
So all I need is toanchor myself, unshakably.
Dr John Dentico (34:58):
Yeah, the law of attraction.
Dr Ravi R. Iyer (35:00):
Said that would be my magic wand.
Dr John Dentico (35:02):
That's a good one.
And I wish you great success in this.
Listen, Ravi, thank you so verymuch for being here with me today.
I truly appreciate it and I wishyou all the success in the future.
good luck to you and thank you again.
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