July 15, 2025 • 28 mins
Berlin is a city like no other. From Cold War watchtowers and Prussian palaces to punk clubs and street art-covered sections of the Berlin Wall, this episode dives into one of Europe's most dynamic capitals. David and Tim explore how the city’s past and present intersect, offering a unique travel experience full of culture, complexity, and creativity.
In This Episode
- Berlin Then and Now: The story of a once-divided city reunited
- Cold War Landmarks: Visiting Checkpoint Charlie, the Palace of Tears, and the East Side Gallery
Iconic Sites:
- Brandenburg Gate
- The Reichstag
- Tiergarten Park
- Hidden Gems in East Berlin:
- Karl-Marx-Allee's preserved Soviet-era architecture
- Tränenpalast Museum and its powerful history
- East Side Gallery's open-air art and riverfront
- What makes Berlin feel youthful, energetic, and unlike anywhere else in Germany
- Why Tim keeps returning to the city, and how his first impression as a backpacker changed over time
Why Listen
Whether you're a Cold War history buff, a first-time visitor, or a seasoned traveler returning to Berlin, this episode offers practical insights and thoughtful reflections on what makes the city worth exploring in depth.
Next Episode: Part 2 will cover the best places to eat and stay in Berlin, plus tips on how to navigate the city like a local.
Note: Some of the above links may be affiliate links. Booking through them comes at no additional cost to you but helps support the production of this podcast.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:17):
From Prussian palaces to coldwar bunkers, from punk rock basements
to world class museums, it's acity where there's history on every
corner, but creativity leadsthe way.
On today's episode of travelin 10, we're diving into what makes
Germany's capital one ofEurope's most dynamic and unexpected
cities.
Where past and present collidein the best possible ways.
And as always, I'm joined byaward winning travel writer, my co
(00:39):
host, Tim Johnson.
Tim, ready to tackle in today, how.
You doing by the way?
David?
I'm doing great.
I've just got back from abouta six day trip through very remote
spots throughout BritishColumbia doing one of the best sort
of overlanding trails calledthe Highline Trail up in near Whistler,
British Columbia.
(00:59):
It was a phenomenal few daysof exploring.
And I know you are also inCanada exploring this week as well,
aren't you?
I am.
I'm in one of my very favoriteplaces in the entire world which
is I'm in Dawson City in theYukon Territory.
So, you know, some of ourlisteners may not be so familiar
with this part of the world,but north of 60 degrees which is
(01:23):
what Canadians consider thefar north and just a tick below 66
degrees which is the arcticsurface circle.
And this time of year it isespecially spectacular because with
the summer solstice being onJune 21st and now we're in early
July, very, very long days.
(01:43):
So was out last night.
Dawson City is former goldrush town where thousands, tens of
thousands of people came morethan a hundred years ago here in
search of fame and fortune andvery few of them found it.
But, but the city remains asyou know, a wild west Arctic boom
(02:07):
town preserved by Parks Canada.
Did a tour in the evening lastnight with Parks Canada learning
about the history and learningabout some of the people here.
And you know, it's, it's, it's amazing.
I mean just the, just themidnight sun, I think it is something
that makes it so special, youknow, you, you, we were out, I was
(02:28):
with a friend and we were outat the, the oldest gambling hall
in Canada and came out afterthe midnight show.
The midnight show ran tillabout 12:45 in the morning.
Came out, sun was still upjust like, you know.
Yeah, it felt like just an,another, another day.
So the latitude could be a bitdisorienting but in all the best
(02:51):
ways.
And it's still, still has thatboomtown spirit and a lot of, a lot
of cool bars, restaurants,oldest gambling hall in Canada.
You can still go out on theKlondike river on a paddle wheeler.
There's lots of great thingsto do here.
So I love this place.
I've been here many times and.
But as I was saying to youearlier, David, it's hot.
(03:13):
It's, you know, we're in the Arctic.
This is literally the Arctic.
And it's about 25 degreesCelsius, which with the Arctic sun
makes it feel a little bitmore like maybe 10 degrees warmer
than that.
So anyway, enjoying abeautiful arctic summer here right
(03:34):
near the Arctic Circle.
Yeah.
Well, we are definitely goingto be coming back probably later
this summer to talk more aboutthe Yukon and do a couple of episodes
there.
It's.
It's somewhere.
We're both fortunate thatwe've been to every province and
territory in the country andYukon's pretty unique one.
It's, it's definitely one ofmy favorites.
So I'm looking forward to ourdiscussion about that.
And I think in a few weekstime we're planning to do a couple
(03:56):
of episodes on the Yukon.
And I'm feverishly takingnotes and preparing for those episodes.
So very much looking forwardto talking about the Yukon.
But we're talking about adifferent and equally amazing place
today.
Right.
Talking about Berlin,definitely a unique world capital,
a very dynamic city known forits culture, known for much of its
(04:17):
history being a divided city.
And when was the last time youwere through Berlin?
I was in Berlin last week.
So there you go.
Ah, yeah.
So I've been to Berlin.
Berlin, you know, I came, Icame late to Berlin.
I would say I did go to Berlinat the end of a backpacker trip more
(04:38):
than 20 years ago and loved it.
I had, you know, a couple ofmisfortunes there and maybe it wasn't
on the top of my list to go back.
And it's only been in the lastfive years that I've started returning
to Berlin.
And I would say I've probablybeen to Berlin at least once a year
in each of the last five years.
(05:01):
And some of my favorite hotelsare there.
We're going to talk about that.
The spirit of the city.
You know, I feel like allthose years of, of repression and
of, of.
Of division have created acity where people just are, are excited
to be united, they're excitedto, to have this beat, be able to
(05:23):
build this great capital together.
And so I just can't get enoughof Berlin.
So I had finished a Northern Lights.
I've had a lot of the midnightsun the last few weeks.
A Northern lights cruise withViking, which was excellent.
Not Northern Lights, Midnight Sun.
And then they said, where doyou want to go afterwards?
(05:45):
And I said, you know what?
I'll fly myself to Berlin andI'll figure it out.
And flew home from Berlin lastweek and, and my last day was perhaps
my best day ever.
So wonderful place, endlessamounts of things to see and do.
I tend to be a bit of a, ahistory nerd.
I took, I have a master'sdegree in history.
(06:07):
I find the Cold War endlessly fascinating.
And so that I did kind of adeep dive on that this time.
So on this episode, forlisteners, if you guys are Cold War
nerds like me, you're going tolike this episode.
If you're not, keep listening.
It's still going to be good.
But, yeah, well, I, I am aCold War.
A Cold War nerd.
I've got to say that I haven'tbeen to Berlin yet, and it is high
(06:28):
on my list of, of places Iwant to go.
Now, I'm curious.
You said early on you had somebad experiences there that turned
you off of Berlin.
Any anything, anything particular?
It really wasn't anythingBerlin specific.
It was, you know, I was thereas a backpacker.
This would have been 2020, 2021.
(06:52):
So we're talking 25 years agoand there was a backpacker and the
hostel, you know, I mean, thewhole world was different back then,
right?
People didn't have phones, butyou couldn't book online.
And we showed up, I was with abuddy of mine, Canadian friend, and
we showed up to book a hosteland they said there's almost nothing
available except we have thisone place.
(07:14):
And we went to the hostel andit was just, it was like, I mean,
structurally it was okay, butit was like the toilets didn't work,
the showers didn't work, thepeople in our room were terrible.
And so, like, it wasn't like aBerlin specific problem.
I mean, a normal everydaytraveler to Berlin would not encounter
(07:35):
these things.
But I, you know, life is funnythat, you know, if you have an unpleasant
experience, even if it doesn'thave anything to do with the city
itself, you're going to kindof put that in the back of your mind
and go, well, maybe I don'tneed to go back to that place.
I'm going to go to Barcelona,I'm going to go to Paris, I'm going
to go to Athens, I'm going togo to Istanbul.
And so did not return toBerlin until maybe, maybe five years
(08:01):
ago.
I did a very interesting Elbariver cruise.
So the Elba is not one of theRivers that river cruises normally
tackle mostly the Rhine or theDanube or even the Rhone.
Other Duro in Portugal.
The Elbe is a very shallow river.
(08:24):
It's as shallow as 3 or 4ft insome places.
But I did a cruise from Berlinto Prague, this is probably about
four years ago, on a ship thatwas specially built for that river.
And getting to Berlin, I thinkI just fell in love with the city.
I was just like, how has ittaken me this long to rediscover
this city?
(08:45):
And now, I mean, coming backfrom the cruise, they said, where
do you want to fly from?
I said, no doubt Berlin.
It's, I want to at least spenda few days in Berlin, so, or Berlin,
as Berliners say, with theemphasis on the first syllable.
But, and just like always hada, had a really fantastic stay there.
(09:05):
It was getting quite hot.
Summers are hot in Berlin, butno was fantastic.
So tell me a bit about what,what is summer in Berlin like?
I mean, what I know Germany isknown for.
Any of the towns that I'vegone through in Germany have some
phenomenal markets, a lotgoing on.
From a historical, from acultural perspective, what's, what,
(09:26):
what's really the big draws in Berlin?
What, what to, what do peopleneed to see?
I feel like just, just in ageneral note is that Berlin, it tends
to be a fairly young city.
I mean, that's, that's not tosay that everybody who lives in Berlin
is young, but it does have ayounger spirit than a place.
(09:47):
I mean, I love Munich and Ilove Cologne.
I love all these other greatcities in Germany, but Berlin really
has a younger spirit.
I don't know if there's morestudents or whatever.
And I remember, you know, aweek ago being there on Friday night
and people were just out,young people taking the S Bahn, going
(10:09):
from club to club.
The rules about drinking beerare quite lax in Germany.
So people were drinking beer.
I, I, I looked around on the subway.
On the subway.
Half the people on the subwaywere all just having a beer on the
subway.
And it just feels like a, likea, like a city where people enjoy
themselves.
You know, it's, it's just kindof, there's a lot of great bars,
(10:32):
a lot of great restaurantsand, and the rules are shaped, I
mean, Germans, we think ofthem as being very, we buy the book
and, and things like that.
But, but there really is ayoung cool spirit and there's so
much to do.
And I, you know, and I wasthinking about it this morning before
we recorded, and I think ithas a lot to do with the fact that
(10:59):
Berlin for so many years was acity divided.
Right?
I mean, it was, it was themost divided city in the world.
You know, you had these fourzones, the U.S. the U.K. france and
Soviet Union each had their,you know, the, the victorious powers
in the Second World War.
Each of those powers had azone in, in Berlin.
(11:23):
And of course, the mostsignificant divide was between the
zones governed by the Westernpowers and the Soviet Union.
Western powers clearly gotalong a lot better than they did
collectively with the Soviet Union.
And so in 1961, as everyoneknows, people from the eastern parts
(11:49):
of Berlin that were governedby the Soviet Union started to say,
hey, this isn't so great.
We're not sure about thesystem of governance.
We don't have enough to eat.
We don't have enough of anything.
So let's just walk across theroad and be in West Berlin now and,
and live a different kind of life.
And of course, the EasternEuropean government said that that
(12:12):
can't be.
And they built, of course, theBerlin Wall.
And from the early 60s until1989, you had a, a wall, literally
this wall that divided the twohalves of the city.
And so it's very interestingbecause most of the wall is gone.
(12:32):
And that's good.
You know, I mean, it's adifferent world now and, and Berlin
is united as a city.
But on one hand, it'sinteresting to, to recognize that
history and to go to places,and I'm going to talk about this
a little bit more later in thepodcast, to go to places where that
(12:53):
history is perhaps a littlebit more celebrated and explained.
And then on the other hand, tothink about Berlin as really a young
living city that iscelebrating not its division, which
it was most famous for fordecades and decades and decades in
(13:13):
the 20th century, but iscelebrating its, its unity.
So, you know, you really getthat sense that people are united
in the cause of, I don't know,just having a good time and creating
prosperity and, and all thatkind of stuff.
So Berlin is a very, I mean,1989 is a long time ago, but Berlin
(13:38):
continues to have the same,the same spirit.
Yeah, well, I really love todig into that part a little bit around
those divisions.
And I was just thinking, asyou're talking about it, we are probably
even people just a littleolder than us, probably part of the
last generation of those whowould have seen East Berlin during
the divide.
I remember my sister, who's abit older than me, she went on a
(13:59):
high school exchange programto Germany and actually got to get
into East Berlin and talkedabout having Nastasi follow them
everywhere they went.
The.
I mean, it was like what goingto North Korea is now is what going
to East Berlin was then.
And this dramatic differencebetween the east and the West.
Do you still see that much ofthe city?
(14:20):
I mean, can you see thatdivide between the former Soviet
bloc portion of it and therest of the city, or is it really
pretty integrated now?
And what about those zones,the French versus the American zone?
I mean, can you see any ofthat flavor still reflected in kind
of what to see and do in thosesections of the city still?
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
My goal on this particulartrip was a little bit different than
(14:42):
I had done in the past, whichwas I had conversations with a few
different people who hadexpertise in the eastern part of
Berlin, and I had not spentthat much time in the eastern part
of Berlin.
And so the goal on this onewas was to spend as much time in
the former East Berlin as possible.
(15:04):
And it was very, very interesting.
Like I would say, for avisitor, you know, who might be listening
to this podcast, it'sinteresting to start, you know, it's
very touristy, but to startat, at, at Checkpoint Charlie.
So they've recreatedCheckpoint Charlie, you know, which
was the main place through theWall, where Westerners could go to
(15:26):
the east and Easterners couldgo to the West.
And of course, it was verydifficult for Easterners to go to
the west.
And they devised all kinds ofcrazy strategies to, to escape, you
know, on hot air balloons andzip lines and, and all this kind
of stuff to get across the Wall.
And there is, I mean, youthere, there is a, a paid museum
there, but there are outdoorfree museums that talk about all
(15:51):
the different ways that peopletry to get out of East Berlin, to
go to West Berlin.
And you, and you don't evenhave to pay a penny.
But I would say, you know,give yourself a half a day because
there's really a lot there.
And it shows the evolution ofCheckpoint Charlie from a small border
post, you know, to, to reallyquite a major border crossing.
(16:12):
And then on this trip, I alsodid something that I hadn't done
before.
It was a recommendation of theconcierge at my hotel.
I went to a place calledTranon Palast, and it's kind of a
Checkpoint Charlie, but notnearly as touristy.
It was a train station andthey called it the nickname the Russian.
(16:36):
The Russian.
The German nickname was palaceof Tears.
And it was again, an east westexchange point.
So people would have to saygoodbye, you Know, to their relatives,
you know, relatives in the East.
Relatives in the West.
And there's a really excellentmuseum there and it's not expensive
and it's really under the radar.
(16:57):
It wasn't crowded when I was there.
So to, to just see that eastversus west, you know, history that
was.
Check.
Everybody knows CheckpointCharlie, but this Tron and Plast
was, was really, reallyinteresting and, and a very different
(17:17):
look at those east versus west dynamics.
So for somebody coming intoBerlin for the first time, Tim, what
would you say are like those,those kind of three or four quintessential
things that everybody has gotto see on their, their first trip
to the city.
And any tips about how bestto, to see them?
Absolutely, absolutely.
Like, I don't think you cancome to Berlin without going to the
(17:40):
Brandenburg Gates.
I mean, this is an iconic site.
It was really the dividingline between east and West.
It was built by the Prussiansin the 1890s.
It is where Ronald Reaganstood and said, you know, Mr. Gorbachev,
tear down this wall.
It is, it is seared into thepsyche of anyone who knows anything
(18:03):
about German history or evenmodern Western 20th century history.
So that's definitely theplace, the place to start.
And then conveniently, some ofthe other major sites of Berlin are
in very, very close proximityto that.
So you've got the Reichstag,which is the national parliament
(18:26):
of Berlin.
You can go and do tours there.
They actually have like arooftop, I believe a rooftop lounge
or restaurant where you can goup and, and enjoy the views.
It's got a beautiful glass dome.
It's been reconstructed, youknow, since the end of the Cold War.
And that's right there.
It's right next to theBrandenburg Gate.
(18:47):
And then, I mean, just like ifyou were to go to New York City,
you would definitely go toCentral park in Berlin.
They have a huge urban park,520 acres, called Tiergarten.
And again, that is a few stepsfrom the Brandenburg Gate.
(19:07):
And it's got paths and ponds.
You can go biking there.
You can take little paddleboats out.
It's one of these places whereyou could spend an entire day and,
and it's, and it's a greatescape for anyone who, you know,
Berlin is.
It's a beautiful place, butit's busy.
It's a big city.
If you're looking for a placewhere you can kind of get off the
beaten path and feel likeyou're in the country, in the city,
(19:30):
Tiergarten is, is definitelyworth it.
So those are kind of likethat's something you can do within
a couple hours.
But then I do have some more,slightly more obscure places to recommend
as well.
Well, those are the ones wealways love.
I mean, getting, gettingbeyond kind of the, the, the ones
that everybody needs to see.
What are, what are the, a fewof the, the hidden gems that people
(19:52):
might not know about.
So.
Yeah, so I already mentionedTran and Palast, this, this palace
of Tears.
And on this particular trip,my goal was to go east.
You know, I done more in thewestern part of Berlin, know which
that would have been in theEnglish or the American zone.
(20:13):
This time I wanted to spendmost of my time in the Russian zone,
the Soviet zone.
And somebody had recommendeddoing a walk down Karl Marx la, which
was really interesting.
It was originally built tohonor Joseph Stalin.
And it's a broad avenue, stillquite, quite nice, to be honest today.
(20:38):
Big, you know, four lanes oftraffic, a boulevard in the middle,
bike lanes, walking lanes, andlined by this very traditional Soviet
architecture.
So these apartment blocks thatyou might see in, in Russia or other
(21:00):
parts of eastern, central Europe.
And you kind of have to payattention, but there were mosaics
and murals that they havepreserved, you know, honoring the
new Soviet man or the newSoviet woman.
And then a few buildings thatreally looked to me like scaled down
(21:20):
versions of this kind ofbrutalist architecture that you get
in place.
Like Moscow, you know, theSeven sisters, the famous seven sisters
in Moscow, they had kind ofscaled down versions of that.
And that's, I mean, that'ssomething you can do for free.
I mean, I had a tour guide whosaid, yeah, just go to this station.
(21:40):
I went to Alexander Platz, gotout and he said, just walk, just
walk until you get to thisother station.
I walked for a couple ofkilometers and you know, it really
was like walking back in time.
But at the time, same, sametime, that is the growth area of
Berlin because they have a lotof housing there.
You know, they built a lot ofbuildings and so around.
(22:04):
In Alexander Platz, which isclose to the TV tower, which is the
most famous or the mostinfamous landmark in Berlin other
than the Berlin Wall, just aforest of cranes, because they're,
they're, they're building.
This is the place where youcan really grow.
So.
And I walked all the way to, Idid do the spy museum in Alexander
(22:26):
Platz.
I'm just going to gloss overthat, but that's worth it if people
have a chance to go there.
And then I walked all the waydown to the east side gallery, which
is the longest survivingstretch of The Berlin wall and after
1989.
So for those who don't know,in 1989 east and west Europe and
(22:52):
East and West Germany andBerlin came together.
So there were revolutionsacross Eastern Europe, Eastern and
Central Europe.
And famously the most famousmanifestation of that, the most visual
manifestation of that was theBerlin Wall being torn down in the
city.
(23:13):
This great European city beingunited again.
And so much of the wall hasbeen torn down, but in the east side
gallery.
So if you keep going down KarlMarx la and you keep going towards
Ostenhof, there is a longstretch of the Wall there.
I don't know how long it is,less than a kilometer, but it's quite
(23:35):
long.
And it's painted by graffitiand mural artists from around the
world.
And so it's a great place.
I was there like on a Sunday.
It was probably like last Sunday.
Sunny, beautiful day.
The Spree, the famous river isright there.
So you can go hang out at thepark, enjoy yourself and then walk
along the wall and see allthese different paintings.
(23:56):
So, so I'd say, you know,start with the main things.
Don't miss Checkpoint Charlie,don't miss, you know, the Brandenburg
Gate, Tiergarten, these placesare really worth it.
But go east, go east andexperience some of East Berlin as
well.
If you're crossing over from,like, if Checkpoint Charlie wasn't
(24:18):
still there, would, you know,when you're making that crossover
from what was formerly east tothe west, I mean, is it still that
obvious?
Yes, there are, there's smallreminiscences of that.
I mean, the big thing aboutthe, the Berlin Wall is that when
we picture it, we picture itas a wall, you know, which is fair
because it was a wall, but itreally was like two walls with a
(24:43):
kind of a dead zone in the middle.
As it developed, they wantedto make it harder and harder and
harder for people to crossfrom one to the other.
And so it really ended upbeing almost a swath of the city
that it just cuts through the city.
It's not just the, the widthof a, you know, eight foot wall,
(25:04):
it's two walls with a, youknow, and so that part of the city
didn't have anything in itwhen after 1989, they united Germany
and they reconstructedeverything in East Germany.
So Checkpoint Charlie, they'vereconstructed almost in its, its
original form.
I mean, it grew and grew andgrew and grew and then they tore
(25:26):
it all down.
So you can definitely see there's.
There is a Checkpoint Charliethere that you can go take a picture
and all that kind of stuff.
And then you.
You can really.
I did a trip a few years agowhere I walked in the steps of the
Wall and just figured outwhere the course of the Wall was.
And you can tell because it'sall new construction or something,
in some cases, just open spaces.
(25:49):
Because, I mean, this was, youknow, from how many.
61, 1961, 1989.
Something that divided a majorEuropean city in two and can still
kind of see the remnants ofthat there.
And is that.
So is that no Man's Land?
Is it essentially kind of likeparkland still?
Or is there stuff that hasbeen developed in.
In that former no Man's Landas well?
(26:10):
Some of it, for sure, isparkland, and some of it is just
kind of weirdly open.
And then a lot of it, they'vereconstructed other things, whether
it's museums or evencommercial operations, they've filled
it in and it's.
It.
And it doesn't feel like whatit was for so long, which is.
(26:30):
Which is like a slash throughthe city.
You know, it doesn't feel thatway anymore.
And there's certainly nodifficulty going east to west or
anything like that.
Um, but you.
But you can definitely tell,you know, if there.
If you're walking down thestreet in that area and you kind
of look around, you go, youknow, there's not enough buildings
here.
This feels a little bit, youknow, it's a little more open than
(26:52):
it was just two blocks ago.
You're probably in a spotwhere the Berlin Wall used to run.
Okay, well, that.
That certainly gives us lotsto see and do to get our trip started.
Why don't we come back for asecond episode, Tim, and get into
a little bit of kind of thewhere to eat, where to stay, and
a little bit more of just thelogistics of a trip to Berlin and
(27:13):
continue on from there.
Sounds good.
Great chatting with you,David, and can't wait to continue.
Sounds good.
Thanks.
From Prussian palaces to coldwar bunkers, from punk rock basements
to world class museums, it's acity where there's history on every
corner, but creativity leadsthe way.
On today's episode of travelin 10, we're diving into what makes
Germany's capital one ofEurope's most dynamic and unexpected
cities.
Where past and present collidein the best possible ways.
And as always, I'm joined byaward winning travel writer, my co
(00:39):
host, Tim Johnson.
Tim, ready to tackle in today, how.
You doing by the way?
David?
I'm doing great.
I've just got back from abouta six day trip through very remote
spots throughout BritishColumbia doing one of the best sort
of overlanding trails calledthe Highline Trail up in near Whistler,
British Columbia.
(00:59):
It was a phenomenal few daysof exploring.
And I know you are also inCanada exploring this week as well,
aren't you?
I am.
I'm in one of my very favoriteplaces in the entire world which
is I'm in Dawson City in theYukon Territory.
So, you know, some of ourlisteners may not be so familiar
with this part of the world,but north of 60 degrees which is
(01:23):
what Canadians consider thefar north and just a tick below 66
degrees which is the arcticsurface circle.
And this time of year it isespecially spectacular because with
the summer solstice being onJune 21st and now we're in early
July, very, very long days.
(01:43):
So was out last night.
Dawson City is former goldrush town where thousands, tens of
thousands of people came morethan a hundred years ago here in
search of fame and fortune andvery few of them found it.
But, but the city remains asyou know, a wild west Arctic boom
(02:07):
town preserved by Parks Canada.
Did a tour in the evening lastnight with Parks Canada learning
about the history and learningabout some of the people here.
And you know, it's, it's, it's amazing.
I mean just the, just themidnight sun, I think it is something
that makes it so special, youknow, you, you, we were out, I was
(02:28):
with a friend and we were outat the, the oldest gambling hall
in Canada and came out afterthe midnight show.
The midnight show ran tillabout 12:45 in the morning.
Came out, sun was still upjust like, you know.
Yeah, it felt like just an,another, another day.
So the latitude could be a bitdisorienting but in all the best
(02:51):
ways.
And it's still, still has thatboomtown spirit and a lot of, a lot
of cool bars, restaurants,oldest gambling hall in Canada.
You can still go out on theKlondike river on a paddle wheeler.
There's lots of great thingsto do here.
So I love this place.
I've been here many times and.
But as I was saying to youearlier, David, it's hot.
(03:13):
It's, you know, we're in the Arctic.
This is literally the Arctic.
And it's about 25 degreesCelsius, which with the Arctic sun
makes it feel a little bitmore like maybe 10 degrees warmer
than that.
So anyway, enjoying abeautiful arctic summer here right
(03:34):
near the Arctic Circle.
Yeah.
Well, we are definitely goingto be coming back probably later
this summer to talk more aboutthe Yukon and do a couple of episodes
there.
It's.
It's somewhere.
We're both fortunate thatwe've been to every province and
territory in the country andYukon's pretty unique one.
It's, it's definitely one ofmy favorites.
So I'm looking forward to ourdiscussion about that.
And I think in a few weekstime we're planning to do a couple
(03:56):
of episodes on the Yukon.
And I'm feverishly takingnotes and preparing for those episodes.
So very much looking forwardto talking about the Yukon.
But we're talking about adifferent and equally amazing place
today.
Right.
Talking about Berlin,definitely a unique world capital,
a very dynamic city known forits culture, known for much of its
(04:17):
history being a divided city.
And when was the last time youwere through Berlin?
I was in Berlin last week.
So there you go.
Ah, yeah.
So I've been to Berlin.
Berlin, you know, I came, Icame late to Berlin.
I would say I did go to Berlinat the end of a backpacker trip more
(04:38):
than 20 years ago and loved it.
I had, you know, a couple ofmisfortunes there and maybe it wasn't
on the top of my list to go back.
And it's only been in the lastfive years that I've started returning
to Berlin.
And I would say I've probablybeen to Berlin at least once a year
in each of the last five years.
(05:01):
And some of my favorite hotelsare there.
We're going to talk about that.
The spirit of the city.
You know, I feel like allthose years of, of repression and
of, of.
Of division have created acity where people just are, are excited
to be united, they're excitedto, to have this beat, be able to
(05:23):
build this great capital together.
And so I just can't get enoughof Berlin.
So I had finished a Northern Lights.
I've had a lot of the midnightsun the last few weeks.
A Northern lights cruise withViking, which was excellent.
Not Northern Lights, Midnight Sun.
And then they said, where doyou want to go afterwards?
(05:45):
And I said, you know what?
I'll fly myself to Berlin andI'll figure it out.
And flew home from Berlin lastweek and, and my last day was perhaps
my best day ever.
So wonderful place, endlessamounts of things to see and do.
I tend to be a bit of a, ahistory nerd.
I took, I have a master'sdegree in history.
(06:07):
I find the Cold War endlessly fascinating.
And so that I did kind of adeep dive on that this time.
So on this episode, forlisteners, if you guys are Cold War
nerds like me, you're going tolike this episode.
If you're not, keep listening.
It's still going to be good.
But, yeah, well, I, I am aCold War.
A Cold War nerd.
I've got to say that I haven'tbeen to Berlin yet, and it is high
(06:28):
on my list of, of places Iwant to go.
Now, I'm curious.
You said early on you had somebad experiences there that turned
you off of Berlin.
Any anything, anything particular?
It really wasn't anythingBerlin specific.
It was, you know, I was thereas a backpacker.
This would have been 2020, 2021.
(06:52):
So we're talking 25 years agoand there was a backpacker and the
hostel, you know, I mean, thewhole world was different back then,
right?
People didn't have phones, butyou couldn't book online.
And we showed up, I was with abuddy of mine, Canadian friend, and
we showed up to book a hosteland they said there's almost nothing
available except we have thisone place.
(07:14):
And we went to the hostel andit was just, it was like, I mean,
structurally it was okay, butit was like the toilets didn't work,
the showers didn't work, thepeople in our room were terrible.
And so, like, it wasn't like aBerlin specific problem.
I mean, a normal everydaytraveler to Berlin would not encounter
(07:35):
these things.
But I, you know, life is funnythat, you know, if you have an unpleasant
experience, even if it doesn'thave anything to do with the city
itself, you're going to kindof put that in the back of your mind
and go, well, maybe I don'tneed to go back to that place.
I'm going to go to Barcelona,I'm going to go to Paris, I'm going
to go to Athens, I'm going togo to Istanbul.
And so did not return toBerlin until maybe, maybe five years
(08:01):
ago.
I did a very interesting Elbariver cruise.
So the Elba is not one of theRivers that river cruises normally
tackle mostly the Rhine or theDanube or even the Rhone.
Other Duro in Portugal.
The Elbe is a very shallow river.
(08:24):
It's as shallow as 3 or 4ft insome places.
But I did a cruise from Berlinto Prague, this is probably about
four years ago, on a ship thatwas specially built for that river.
And getting to Berlin, I thinkI just fell in love with the city.
I was just like, how has ittaken me this long to rediscover
this city?
(08:45):
And now, I mean, coming backfrom the cruise, they said, where
do you want to fly from?
I said, no doubt Berlin.
It's, I want to at least spenda few days in Berlin, so, or Berlin,
as Berliners say, with theemphasis on the first syllable.
But, and just like always hada, had a really fantastic stay there.
(09:05):
It was getting quite hot.
Summers are hot in Berlin, butno was fantastic.
So tell me a bit about what,what is summer in Berlin like?
I mean, what I know Germany isknown for.
Any of the towns that I'vegone through in Germany have some
phenomenal markets, a lotgoing on.
From a historical, from acultural perspective, what's, what,
(09:26):
what's really the big draws in Berlin?
What, what to, what do peopleneed to see?
I feel like just, just in ageneral note is that Berlin, it tends
to be a fairly young city.
I mean, that's, that's not tosay that everybody who lives in Berlin
is young, but it does have ayounger spirit than a place.
(09:47):
I mean, I love Munich and Ilove Cologne.
I love all these other greatcities in Germany, but Berlin really
has a younger spirit.
I don't know if there's morestudents or whatever.
And I remember, you know, aweek ago being there on Friday night
and people were just out,young people taking the S Bahn, going
(10:09):
from club to club.
The rules about drinking beerare quite lax in Germany.
So people were drinking beer.
I, I, I looked around on the subway.
On the subway.
Half the people on the subwaywere all just having a beer on the
subway.
And it just feels like a, likea, like a city where people enjoy
themselves.
You know, it's, it's just kindof, there's a lot of great bars,
(10:32):
a lot of great restaurantsand, and the rules are shaped, I
mean, Germans, we think ofthem as being very, we buy the book
and, and things like that.
But, but there really is ayoung cool spirit and there's so
much to do.
And I, you know, and I wasthinking about it this morning before
we recorded, and I think ithas a lot to do with the fact that
(10:59):
Berlin for so many years was acity divided.
Right?
I mean, it was, it was themost divided city in the world.
You know, you had these fourzones, the U.S. the U.K. france and
Soviet Union each had their,you know, the, the victorious powers
in the Second World War.
Each of those powers had azone in, in Berlin.
(11:23):
And of course, the mostsignificant divide was between the
zones governed by the Westernpowers and the Soviet Union.
Western powers clearly gotalong a lot better than they did
collectively with the Soviet Union.
And so in 1961, as everyoneknows, people from the eastern parts
(11:49):
of Berlin that were governedby the Soviet Union started to say,
hey, this isn't so great.
We're not sure about thesystem of governance.
We don't have enough to eat.
We don't have enough of anything.
So let's just walk across theroad and be in West Berlin now and,
and live a different kind of life.
And of course, the EasternEuropean government said that that
(12:12):
can't be.
And they built, of course, theBerlin Wall.
And from the early 60s until1989, you had a, a wall, literally
this wall that divided the twohalves of the city.
And so it's very interestingbecause most of the wall is gone.
(12:32):
And that's good.
You know, I mean, it's adifferent world now and, and Berlin
is united as a city.
But on one hand, it'sinteresting to, to recognize that
history and to go to places,and I'm going to talk about this
a little bit more later in thepodcast, to go to places where that
(12:53):
history is perhaps a littlebit more celebrated and explained.
And then on the other hand, tothink about Berlin as really a young
living city that iscelebrating not its division, which
it was most famous for fordecades and decades and decades in
(13:13):
the 20th century, but iscelebrating its, its unity.
So, you know, you really getthat sense that people are united
in the cause of, I don't know,just having a good time and creating
prosperity and, and all thatkind of stuff.
So Berlin is a very, I mean,1989 is a long time ago, but Berlin
(13:38):
continues to have the same,the same spirit.
Yeah, well, I really love todig into that part a little bit around
those divisions.
And I was just thinking, asyou're talking about it, we are probably
even people just a littleolder than us, probably part of the
last generation of those whowould have seen East Berlin during
the divide.
I remember my sister, who's abit older than me, she went on a
(13:59):
high school exchange programto Germany and actually got to get
into East Berlin and talkedabout having Nastasi follow them
everywhere they went.
The.
I mean, it was like what goingto North Korea is now is what going
to East Berlin was then.
And this dramatic differencebetween the east and the West.
Do you still see that much ofthe city?
(14:20):
I mean, can you see thatdivide between the former Soviet
bloc portion of it and therest of the city, or is it really
pretty integrated now?
And what about those zones,the French versus the American zone?
I mean, can you see any ofthat flavor still reflected in kind
of what to see and do in thosesections of the city still?
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
My goal on this particulartrip was a little bit different than
(14:42):
I had done in the past, whichwas I had conversations with a few
different people who hadexpertise in the eastern part of
Berlin, and I had not spentthat much time in the eastern part
of Berlin.
And so the goal on this onewas was to spend as much time in
the former East Berlin as possible.
(15:04):
And it was very, very interesting.
Like I would say, for avisitor, you know, who might be listening
to this podcast, it'sinteresting to start, you know, it's
very touristy, but to startat, at, at Checkpoint Charlie.
So they've recreatedCheckpoint Charlie, you know, which
was the main place through theWall, where Westerners could go to
(15:26):
the east and Easterners couldgo to the West.
And of course, it was verydifficult for Easterners to go to
the west.
And they devised all kinds ofcrazy strategies to, to escape, you
know, on hot air balloons andzip lines and, and all this kind
of stuff to get across the Wall.
And there is, I mean, youthere, there is a, a paid museum
there, but there are outdoorfree museums that talk about all
(15:51):
the different ways that peopletry to get out of East Berlin, to
go to West Berlin.
And you, and you don't evenhave to pay a penny.
But I would say, you know,give yourself a half a day because
there's really a lot there.
And it shows the evolution ofCheckpoint Charlie from a small border
post, you know, to, to reallyquite a major border crossing.
(16:12):
And then on this trip, I alsodid something that I hadn't done
before.
It was a recommendation of theconcierge at my hotel.
I went to a place calledTranon Palast, and it's kind of a
Checkpoint Charlie, but notnearly as touristy.
It was a train station andthey called it the nickname the Russian.
(16:36):
The Russian.
The German nickname was palaceof Tears.
And it was again, an east westexchange point.
So people would have to saygoodbye, you Know, to their relatives,
you know, relatives in the East.
Relatives in the West.
And there's a really excellentmuseum there and it's not expensive
and it's really under the radar.
(16:57):
It wasn't crowded when I was there.
So to, to just see that eastversus west, you know, history that
was.
Check.
Everybody knows CheckpointCharlie, but this Tron and Plast
was, was really, reallyinteresting and, and a very different
(17:17):
look at those east versus west dynamics.
So for somebody coming intoBerlin for the first time, Tim, what
would you say are like those,those kind of three or four quintessential
things that everybody has gotto see on their, their first trip
to the city.
And any tips about how bestto, to see them?
Absolutely, absolutely.
Like, I don't think you cancome to Berlin without going to the
(17:40):
Brandenburg Gates.
I mean, this is an iconic site.
It was really the dividingline between east and West.
It was built by the Prussiansin the 1890s.
It is where Ronald Reaganstood and said, you know, Mr. Gorbachev,
tear down this wall.
It is, it is seared into thepsyche of anyone who knows anything
(18:03):
about German history or evenmodern Western 20th century history.
So that's definitely theplace, the place to start.
And then conveniently, some ofthe other major sites of Berlin are
in very, very close proximityto that.
So you've got the Reichstag,which is the national parliament
(18:26):
of Berlin.
You can go and do tours there.
They actually have like arooftop, I believe a rooftop lounge
or restaurant where you can goup and, and enjoy the views.
It's got a beautiful glass dome.
It's been reconstructed, youknow, since the end of the Cold War.
And that's right there.
It's right next to theBrandenburg Gate.
(18:47):
And then, I mean, just like ifyou were to go to New York City,
you would definitely go toCentral park in Berlin.
They have a huge urban park,520 acres, called Tiergarten.
And again, that is a few stepsfrom the Brandenburg Gate.
(19:07):
And it's got paths and ponds.
You can go biking there.
You can take little paddleboats out.
It's one of these places whereyou could spend an entire day and,
and it's, and it's a greatescape for anyone who, you know,
Berlin is.
It's a beautiful place, butit's busy.
It's a big city.
If you're looking for a placewhere you can kind of get off the
beaten path and feel likeyou're in the country, in the city,
(19:30):
Tiergarten is, is definitelyworth it.
So those are kind of likethat's something you can do within
a couple hours.
But then I do have some more,slightly more obscure places to recommend
as well.
Well, those are the ones wealways love.
I mean, getting, gettingbeyond kind of the, the, the ones
that everybody needs to see.
What are, what are the, a fewof the, the hidden gems that people
(19:52):
might not know about.
So.
Yeah, so I already mentionedTran and Palast, this, this palace
of Tears.
And on this particular trip,my goal was to go east.
You know, I done more in thewestern part of Berlin, know which
that would have been in theEnglish or the American zone.
(20:13):
This time I wanted to spendmost of my time in the Russian zone,
the Soviet zone.
And somebody had recommendeddoing a walk down Karl Marx la, which
was really interesting.
It was originally built tohonor Joseph Stalin.
And it's a broad avenue, stillquite, quite nice, to be honest today.
(20:38):
Big, you know, four lanes oftraffic, a boulevard in the middle,
bike lanes, walking lanes, andlined by this very traditional Soviet
architecture.
So these apartment blocks thatyou might see in, in Russia or other
(21:00):
parts of eastern, central Europe.
And you kind of have to payattention, but there were mosaics
and murals that they havepreserved, you know, honoring the
new Soviet man or the newSoviet woman.
And then a few buildings thatreally looked to me like scaled down
(21:20):
versions of this kind ofbrutalist architecture that you get
in place.
Like Moscow, you know, theSeven sisters, the famous seven sisters
in Moscow, they had kind ofscaled down versions of that.
And that's, I mean, that'ssomething you can do for free.
I mean, I had a tour guide whosaid, yeah, just go to this station.
(21:40):
I went to Alexander Platz, gotout and he said, just walk, just
walk until you get to thisother station.
I walked for a couple ofkilometers and you know, it really
was like walking back in time.
But at the time, same, sametime, that is the growth area of
Berlin because they have a lotof housing there.
You know, they built a lot ofbuildings and so around.
(22:04):
In Alexander Platz, which isclose to the TV tower, which is the
most famous or the mostinfamous landmark in Berlin other
than the Berlin Wall, just aforest of cranes, because they're,
they're, they're building.
This is the place where youcan really grow.
So.
And I walked all the way to, Idid do the spy museum in Alexander
(22:26):
Platz.
I'm just going to gloss overthat, but that's worth it if people
have a chance to go there.
And then I walked all the waydown to the east side gallery, which
is the longest survivingstretch of The Berlin wall and after
1989.
So for those who don't know,in 1989 east and west Europe and
(22:52):
East and West Germany andBerlin came together.
So there were revolutionsacross Eastern Europe, Eastern and
Central Europe.
And famously the most famousmanifestation of that, the most visual
manifestation of that was theBerlin Wall being torn down in the
city.
(23:13):
This great European city beingunited again.
And so much of the wall hasbeen torn down, but in the east side
gallery.
So if you keep going down KarlMarx la and you keep going towards
Ostenhof, there is a longstretch of the Wall there.
I don't know how long it is,less than a kilometer, but it's quite
(23:35):
long.
And it's painted by graffitiand mural artists from around the
world.
And so it's a great place.
I was there like on a Sunday.
It was probably like last Sunday.
Sunny, beautiful day.
The Spree, the famous river isright there.
So you can go hang out at thepark, enjoy yourself and then walk
along the wall and see allthese different paintings.
(23:56):
So, so I'd say, you know,start with the main things.
Don't miss Checkpoint Charlie,don't miss, you know, the Brandenburg
Gate, Tiergarten, these placesare really worth it.
But go east, go east andexperience some of East Berlin as
well.
If you're crossing over from,like, if Checkpoint Charlie wasn't
(24:18):
still there, would, you know,when you're making that crossover
from what was formerly east tothe west, I mean, is it still that
obvious?
Yes, there are, there's smallreminiscences of that.
I mean, the big thing aboutthe, the Berlin Wall is that when
we picture it, we picture itas a wall, you know, which is fair
because it was a wall, but itreally was like two walls with a
(24:43):
kind of a dead zone in the middle.
As it developed, they wantedto make it harder and harder and
harder for people to crossfrom one to the other.
And so it really ended upbeing almost a swath of the city
that it just cuts through the city.
It's not just the, the widthof a, you know, eight foot wall,
(25:04):
it's two walls with a, youknow, and so that part of the city
didn't have anything in itwhen after 1989, they united Germany
and they reconstructedeverything in East Germany.
So Checkpoint Charlie, they'vereconstructed almost in its, its
original form.
I mean, it grew and grew andgrew and grew and then they tore
(25:26):
it all down.
So you can definitely see there's.
There is a Checkpoint Charliethere that you can go take a picture
and all that kind of stuff.
And then you.
You can really.
I did a trip a few years agowhere I walked in the steps of the
Wall and just figured outwhere the course of the Wall was.
And you can tell because it'sall new construction or something,
in some cases, just open spaces.
(25:49):
Because, I mean, this was, youknow, from how many.
61, 1961, 1989.
Something that divided a majorEuropean city in two and can still
kind of see the remnants ofthat there.
And is that.
So is that no Man's Land?
Is it essentially kind of likeparkland still?
Or is there stuff that hasbeen developed in.
In that former no Man's Landas well?
(26:10):
Some of it, for sure, isparkland, and some of it is just
kind of weirdly open.
And then a lot of it, they'vereconstructed other things, whether
it's museums or evencommercial operations, they've filled
it in and it's.
It.
And it doesn't feel like whatit was for so long, which is.
(26:30):
Which is like a slash throughthe city.
You know, it doesn't feel thatway anymore.
And there's certainly nodifficulty going east to west or
anything like that.
Um, but you.
But you can definitely tell,you know, if there.
If you're walking down thestreet in that area and you kind
of look around, you go, youknow, there's not enough buildings
here.
This feels a little bit, youknow, it's a little more open than
(26:52):
it was just two blocks ago.
You're probably in a spotwhere the Berlin Wall used to run.
Okay, well, that.
That certainly gives us lotsto see and do to get our trip started.
Why don't we come back for asecond episode, Tim, and get into
a little bit of kind of thewhere to eat, where to stay, and
a little bit more of just thelogistics of a trip to Berlin and
(27:13):
continue on from there.
Sounds good.
Great chatting with you,David, and can't wait to continue.
Sounds good.
Thanks.
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