October 7, 2025 • 23 mins
We head back to Ecuador to explore a lesser-visited southeastern loop that moves from the high Andes into the Amazon in just a few hours. David and Tim swap rainforest lodge stories, then David sits down in Cuenca with Felipe from Two Degrees Expeditions to unpack a new, community-driven route that threads cacao and guayusa farms, light-adventure rafting, birding lodges, Shuar cultural experiences, and standout gastronomy in Saraguro.
Why listen:
• Discover how quickly you can link the Andes and Amazon in southern Ecuador
• Learn what “light adventure” looks like for families and curious first-timers
• Hear how Shuar and Saraguro communities are leading culture-forward, sustainable tourism
• Get ideas for unique stays, from river-perched rooms to forest cabins
Places and experiences mentioned
• Cuenca
• The Andes and the Amazon of southern Ecuador
• Cacao farm visit and chocolate tasting
• Guayusa farming and tea tradition
• Family-friendly rafting experience
• Shuar community visit and cultural exchange
• Saraguro town and Chamuico restaurant (six-course tasting)
• Lodges referenced: Rio Vida Lodge (Hualaquiza), Copalinga Forest Lodge
Responsible travel notes
• This route is intentionally community-based. Please book with operators who compensate local partners fairly and cap group sizes.
• Follow lodge guidance on river and rainforest safety, stick to marked paths, and use insect repellent that is rainforest-safe.
• Cultural photography: always ask permission, especially during ceremonies.
Connect with the guest
Book directly with Two Degrees Expeditions or find them on Instagram at 2 degrees expeditions.
Note: Some of the above are affiliate links. if you book using them you will not be charged any extra, but we will receive a small commission to help support the show.
Mentioned in this episode:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:47):
On Today's travel in 10, weare going back to Ecuador and this
time exploring the southeastof Ecuador, a southeastern loop that
I was lucky enough to have thechance to do just a few weeks ago,
exploring everything from kindof the Andes to the Amazon.
And one of the things thatreally struck me on this trip is
how quickly you can get fromthis aquatic mountain range, the
(01:09):
Andes, and up at high altitudedown into the wilds of the Amazon
rainforest.
Tim, I know you've had achance to travel around a little
bit this region as well.
What were some of yourimpressions of it?
Yeah, so I've been in theAndes, but not in Ecuador.
But I did go into the Amazonregion, and it was really interesting.
I stayed at this lodge whereyou had basically open windows.
(01:33):
So I remember just laying inbed and hearing the sounds of the
rainforest, and they wouldchange depending on the time of the
day.
So afternoon would have acertain tempo, evening would have
a different tempo, and thenovernight would have a different
sound as well.
And it was just absolutely beautiful.
I remember they had a.
A dry box because it was sohumid in the Amazon, so you could
(01:57):
put your passport, yourdevices in this dry box so that you
didn't.
They weren't affected by therainforest, but it was really a true
jungle experience, probablythe truest jungle experience that
I've ever had before.
Now, that's a while ago, David.
I know you were there muchmore recently.
Well, a lot of similarities inmy experience for sure, too.
(02:17):
We stayed in a couple ofreally cool spots, but one river,
Veto Ecolodge, sounds similarto what you experienced, where I
was staying in a room whereyour windows all opened up and it
was actually kind of perchedout over a river.
Whitewater rafting later that day.
But right in the middle of theAmazon rainforest, and as you say,
thousands of species of birds,you wake up to just the sounds of
(02:40):
the forest all around you andgo to sleep with the sounds of the
river running underneath your room.
And it had actually a bathtubbuilt out right over top of the river
so you could.
I know you're a guy who enjoysrelaxing in a room with a good bath
at the view.
This.
This.
You would have loved this one, Tim.
You were sitting out over theriver in the middle of an Amazon
rainforest, so right up your alley.
(03:00):
I love a bathtub.
And that sounds like a fairlyepic bathtub, actually.
Yeah, absolutely.
But why don't we go live toEcuador, where I had a chance to
sit down again with Philippefrom Two Degrees Expeditions, who
me on our tour of the regionand he's just opened up this kind
of.
This is kind of a lessexplored part of Ecuador where he
(03:22):
gets into on the loop thatwe've gone to explore.
So we'll let him tell us alittle bit about that.
(03:44):
We are here today in beautifulCuenca this is a wonderful city that
I have had a chance to spendthe last few days in and me and you
have spent the last few daysbefore that traveling around southern
Ecuador, probably a part ofEcuador that not as many tourists
get to or know about.
A little bit of an emergingdestination, I think it's fair to
(04:04):
say from a tourism perspective.
Why did you choose to take us there?
So I was researching.
I've always been in love withthe rainforest.
I think the rainforest is theplace where we all humans come from.
At some point 15 million yearsago there was a big glaciation 15,000
years ago there was a hugeglaciation and the people that moved
(04:27):
into these areas, they cameinto the rainforest and stayed.
So a lot of these communitiesthat are living in the rainforest
are actually some of thedescendants of these people and we
can find some of our roots there.
So I've always been in lovewith this place.
Rainforest in Amazon so I cameto live in Cuenca 13 years ago.
I'm originally from this citybut I was living in different places
(04:48):
so I decided to come back andsettle here and I was always thinking
how can I do a tour to thesouthern rainforest?
A place where everybody wouldlike to see something and maybe there's
attractions and culture andlandscapes and animals or anything.
So being here in the city fora long time, going to the rainforest
would be a challenge Would belike two days travel, ugly roads
(05:10):
and everything.
But then eventually the roadsgot better with new roads and new
systems.
So now these roads are nice.
It's like three hours awayfrom the city which is nothing.
You drive three hours and youare in a completely different spot.
So last year I had a calling Iwas like I need to go to the rainforest.
(05:33):
So I basically took my car andstarted driving down and talking
to people and finding thesenew places.
So I found this cacao placeand I was like, wow, this has to
be the first place we have to visit.
And then I found the guayusa place.
So this place where they showguayusa, which is a very important
drink in the rainforest whereall the rainforest cultures, Guayusa
is, is a sacred drink.
(05:54):
So I was like, these peopleare like selling they actually, you
can go and pick it up yourselfand then maybe buy it this is crazy.
So, and then I. I was lookingfor a nice hotel and I found this
place next to the river thatyou can actually sleep listening
to the river and close to theforest and.
And the best thing, you canjust go down to the hotel and take
a raft.
(06:15):
Yeah.
And draft down the river.
And this river is amazingbecause there's beautiful forests
and birds and people andthings to see.
So I thought it was perfect.
And then also after that, Istarted finding about the communities
that live there, that theseare the shuar people, the people
that have been priority forthousands of years in this place
(06:38):
and they received tourists.
They were actually thinking ofthe same idea of maybe developing
tourism in the area.
So for me it was perfect.
I think discovering thatthere's actually people in the other
side of the.
Of my city thinking ofdeveloping tourism and that I could
actually make an alliance withthem and help them protect their
culture, their forest and havelike a sustainable touristic project.
(06:58):
It was perfect.
So that's the reason Iactually developed the package of
the southeast loop.
Yeah.
And that southeast loop.
I mean, prior to youdeveloping this trip, it sounds like
there really hasn't been muchin terms of organized tours to get
you into that part of the country.
No, there's tourists to go tothe place, but not something organized,
not a package.
Specifically, people fromCuenca have been going to this place
(07:21):
in the last year because thisis kind of like came to be known
just a year ago.
Okay.
So people have been going, butthey only go for like the day, they
spend the day and then theycome back.
So there's nothing reallyorganized that connects.
All these attractions andconnects all these small rural communities
from agritourism to adventureto national parks.
So much that we were able topack in.
Yes.
And also like full gastronomy.
(07:43):
The idea of also having newexperiences or getting in touch with
these communities and walkingwith them, or walking barefoot inside
of the forest, like thesetypes of experiences are experiences
that have to be connected to apackage because on their own they
don't really mean anything for sure.
One of the things that reallystruck me is that in all the communities
(08:03):
that we went to, people havereally preserved their culture very
well.
I mean, you see thetraditional dress, you hear some
traditional music, traditional food.
Why do you think they've beenable to preserve their culture so
much more in so much more of astrong way here than you see in many
other places around the world?
Well, I think it's been a longprocess because the mestizos.
(08:25):
I'm a mestizo and most of theEcuadorians are mestizos, people
from the cities, they startedgoing into the rainforest and taking
places to do cattle oragriculture and displacing the local
communities like the Shuar.
So, so this brought a lot ofproblems and eventually this settled
into, okay, we use this spaceand you use this space, and maybe
(08:45):
we can work together in someof these places.
So that led to the recognizingthat we are a culture and we want
to keep this and conservethese parts.
So I think the Shuar peoplehave really, really clear ideas of
what they want to conserve.
They have mapped all of thetraditions and, and their ancestral
(09:05):
knowledge and they're tryingto show it to the people.
So I think otherwise thanthinking that these people are actually
dressing like that all day.
It's a fact that they haveembraced the western culture, but
they have kept the roots ofwhat they are.
Yeah, but even traveling inthe big cities here in Cuenca, you
still see a lot of people intraditional dress every day.
(09:27):
And yeah, they really, reallydo seem to have preserved their culture
and in a very unique way here.
The thing is that here,because of this process of colonization,
there's people that havedecided that they want to keep their
culture, they are who theyare, and they want to stay dressed
the way that they do.
So it's been very cool processto understand that these people want
(09:48):
to be or show to the outsideworld that they still have their
language, they still dress andthey still have some gastronomy that
they want to keep.
I think it's a process ofrecognizing who you are.
Yeah, identity.
I thought something else thatwas really unique about this trip
that we just did was, youknow, I think for a lot of people
in North America, the Andeshold a lot of attraction, mystery.
(10:12):
The Amazon also.
And to be able to go from theAndes to the Amazon, literally, I
mean, in some of the days itwas an hour, an hour and a half,
and we were traveling from,you know, the heights of the Andes
to the middle of therainforest, to these remote indigenous
communities.
And to be able to do there'sjust so much in such a short period
of time and such a widevariety from a cultural standpoint,
(10:34):
wildlife standpoint, just sucha mix of things in a few days time.
Yes, Ecuador has thisdiversity standpoint where actually
people can wake up in themorning in the rainforest, see the
sunrise, go have lunch in thehighlands with the sun, and then
drop down to the coast andactually see the sunset in the coast.
(10:55):
So Ecuador has that thing ofbeing able to move from different
Environments in small periodsof time and little short distances.
So from here, from Cuenca tothe upper highlands to the highest
spot that's 4,100 meters, it'sonly an hour.
And then from there to thecoast it's another hour and you're
actually on the coast completely.
(11:17):
And then to the sea, it's onlyfour hours away.
So.
So for us Ecuadorians, when Iwas younger, it would be fun.
People would be like friendswould be like, oh, let's go to have
ceviche in the morning.
And we would basically leavein the middle of the day and end
up in the afternoon having abeer in the ocean and then coming
back to the city.
Yeah.
(11:37):
So that type of experience Ithink is what forges into understanding
our country as a neighbor spotwhere you can do many different activities
in one day.
Yeah.
Or have different food in oneday, like Locro de papas or guinea
pig up in the highlands.
And then it's ceviche in the coast.
In the coast, yes.
Gastronomy was a huge part ofthis tour we just did.
I mean, we had the experience,as you say, on the cacao farm when
(12:00):
we first arrived.
Ecuador, renowned for itschocolate for sure, known around
the world.
We then got to finish off onour final day with a goat farm, some
goat cheese and getting that experience.
And we experienced aphenomenal restaurant.
Do you want to maybe talk alittle bit about the restaurant that
you're took us to?
Yeah.
So we went to a restaurantthat's called Chamuico and Samuel,
(12:24):
who is the owner of thisrestaurant, he went to Spain to work
as a worker.
But eventually he got a job ina restaurant and he learned a lot
of cooking techniques andstuff at a Michelin star restaurant.
So eventually he decided tocome back to his land and he established
a restaurant there.
So he's been improving hiscuisine with dishes that are prepared
(12:47):
with local products, actuallylocal products from his family and
from the surrounding areas.
So he's actually supportingthe conservation of products that
are getting lost and alsousing some of the techniques that
he learned in Europe to makenew things in Ecuador.
So the type of gastronomy thatyou get there is a fusion between
his knowledge and the local products.
(13:08):
It's really, really cool.
And then you can try differentflavors and different colors and
different smells because he'slike mixing all of these different
things.
Really, really cool experience.
We got Charlotte, I think itwas about a six course meal and the
presentation was phenomenal.
And it was really interestingtoo, the community that his restaurant
is based within.
(13:28):
And I'm trying to remember thename of the community we were in.
I mean, that was another greatexample of a place that's just very
unique culture.
And a lot of people from thehighlands who have come there and
have their own culture.
Yes, these Saraguru were whatwe call Mitmaq.
Mitmaq were people that theIncas decided to move away from their
place.
(13:48):
So either they were acommunity that had a lot of problems.
So they said, we're gonna moveyou and you're gonna be in a different
place.
So they took them priorityfrom Bolivia and they established
in this area.
It's an hour away from Cuenca.
And they are the.
It's interesting because asyou're driving, you start seeing
some people that are justdifferent and it's this culture that
is only in this area.
(14:09):
So the Saraguro are veryinteresting people, very organized,
very peaceful, very friendly.
And so this is Saraguro, thetown of these people.
So when you go to thisrestaurant, people come actually
in Serbia with the originaldresses and they talk about their
food and their traditions.
Yeah, it's really cool.
I thought another hugehighlight of our trip was the time
(14:30):
that we spent with the Shuar.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about that experience and what
that's like, paint the picturefor people what they would experience
there?
Yeah, for sure.
I think the visit to the Shoarwas incredible because we got to
be and to experience theculture of these Shuar people.
The Shuar were called the Jibaros.
They're part of a group that'scalled the Jibaros that includes
four different cultures in the rainforest.
(14:51):
The Jibaro people were knownfor being isolated in the rainforest
and they were not conquered bythe Incas or the Spanish, mainly
because they had poles on theoutside of their territories that
held shrunken heads.
So, yeah, people wouldn'treally get close to these communities
because they were really,really scared of having their heads
(15:12):
shrunken.
And eventually they managed tokeep their culture and keep their
language and their dresses andtheir gastronomy and all of their
cosmovision.
So the visit to this communitywas interesting because they showed
who they are and what they aremade for and also the type of dresses
that they use.
They explained all the dressesthat they use.
(15:32):
They also explained the food,how they go to the forest and what
do they find there.
So one of the days that wevisited, we were walking on an event
was happening at the forest.
A little worm or a littlecaterpillar from a butterfly had
spotted sprouted those days.
So it was in the trees andthey started calling them.
So these people would like,say, hoo, hoo.
(15:53):
And the little worms or littlecaterpillars just telling, like,
shaking their.
So they have this deepknowledge of the forest that allows
them to actually find thingsthat we wouldn't really see, because
none of us saw these except them.
And they were like, oh, we eatthese things and they are here.
So the rainforest, even thoughit's a place that it's always green
and it doesn't have snow oranything, it doesn't change.
(16:16):
It has these little events.
So they showed us theirknowledge of the forest.
They also showed the spiritualcontext where they live in what they
believe.
They did a small ceremony withtobacco, trying to show us how they
connect through the plants,through the medicine plants, to the
knowledge of the forest.
And then we also talked abouttheir longer language, the dances,
(16:38):
the.
They taught us a bit ofdancing and music.
So it was a very deepconnective experience that allowed
us also to get to knowincredible people that are really,
really friendly and luckilynot doing any shrunken heads anymore.
So I think this was like apart of the culture, and they acknowledge
it.
(16:58):
That's something that theyused to do, and now it's basically
the way of protecting their ancestry.
That's.
That's, I think, the mostimportant thing.
And they didn't actually talka lot about it, but they did mention
a little bit that ayahuascawas part of their spiritual ceremonies
and stuff that they do thereas well.
Yeah, ayahuasca is aninteresting thing because for these
people that have been forthousands of years in the forest,
(17:19):
ayahuasca is a plant thatdoesn't work on its own.
And somehow these people foundthat they could mix this plant with
this other plant and thecompounds of ayahuasca would be activated
so they could drink it andhave a spiritual hallucination experience
that would allow them to alsounderstand what was going on.
(17:41):
So shamans and people thatwork with these medicine plants can
actually heal people throughgoing deeper into their emotions
or their feelings and alsounderstanding what's going on.
So ayahuasca is a thing thatthey do, the shamans.
It's not something that you doevery day because it's very powerful.
And I don't think it should beseen as a drug also, because drugs
(18:04):
actually will get your hook on them.
Ayahuasca doesn't get yourhook on you.
You take it once and you wantto take it anymore.
So, yes, this is somethingthat The Shuar, the Jivaros and I
think most of the rainforestcultures actually do.
So it's kind of an interesting thing.
It's like the medicine of theforest for sure.
It was definitely, I mean youcould see this as an area where sustainable
(18:25):
tourism is very important.
It's very community based tourism.
I mean you're very much onthis trip that you have designed.
Interacting with the localcommunity very directly each stop
of the trip.
What kind of people do youthink this trip appeals to?
I think this trip is good for families.
I think families and kidswould really, really appreciate all
(18:46):
the experience either therafting that is not a difficult rafting
and something family oriented.
The visit to the Shuar I thinkwill change the minds of the visitors.
Families, kids, elders.
I think it's made for everyone.
I don't think there's a personthat wouldn't really enjoy this place
unless it's someone thatdoesn't really want to be outside.
(19:08):
But I don't think that's the idea.
I think we all need at somepoint to see some green and green
actually makes us feel very nice.
So I would say it's made for.
Everyone and very much, Iwould say like the people who are
into culture adventure.
This isn't an all inclusive in Cancun.
This is a bit more adventurousfor sure, but at the same time you're
still staying in beautifulplaces each evening.
(19:30):
I thought particularly therafting lodge we stayed in was great.
My room had a bathtub over theriver and a net that you could sit
in overlooking the river.
It was beautiful and reallysome unique accommodations.
We saw a really unique newaccommodations being built on the
cacao farm that we visited as well.
Some new infrastructure that'sbeing built there.
(19:52):
So definitely a moreadventurous trip but still lots of,
you know, comfortable at thesame time too.
Yeah.
Light adventure I guess, lightadventure say because if we want
to focus it into a more hardadventure we could do it but we wouldn't
include all the people.
So the idea with this tour isto be able to include most of the
public.
And also I think the otherplace is Copalinga, this forest lodge
(20:17):
where you sleep inside ofthese cabins in the middle of the
forest and you have birdswaking you up in the morning.
So these type of experiencesactually get people in touch to the
natural area.
I do believe that the Rio VidaLodge in Hualaquiza is a place that
actually gets you tounderstand the river and the forest
and the community.
(20:38):
It's a place where you, youcan rest of the noises of the city
because you have the river inthe backside and the birds.
So this place is not onlyabout sight, but also about listening,
about feeling, about everything.
It includes all the senses.
And if people want to find outmore about southern Ecuador and about
this trip specifically, andthey can probably find you out on
(21:00):
Instagram, where should theyfind you?
So my Instagram page is 2degrees because we're located 2 degrees
south of the equator.
So 2 degrees expeditions.
2 degrees expeditions is thename of our company.
We focus on tourism,ecotourism in the south of Ecuador,
but of course we operate inall the countries and we do Galapagos
(21:20):
tours and we also dorainforest highlands to actually
connect to this beautiful citythat is Cuenca.
And you were mentioning to metoo that you could even organize
trips connecting people fromthe south of Ecuador down into Peru
and back as well.
So if they want.
Peru is our neighbor and ourfriend country.
So we're actually making toursto connect to the south part of Peru,
to the north part of Peru, andthat could actually get you to Cusco
(21:42):
and to Lima and to other places.
So we are trying to make toconnect the Ecuador with Peru as
a whole country.
Well, it was an amazingexperience and thank you so much
for sharing your culture andsharing the experience with us over
the last few days.
It's been great.
Yeah, thank you, David.
It was amazing to have you onthe tour and I'm glad you enjoyed
it as much as I did.
On Today's travel in 10, weare going back to Ecuador and this
time exploring the southeastof Ecuador, a southeastern loop that
I was lucky enough to have thechance to do just a few weeks ago,
exploring everything from kindof the Andes to the Amazon.
And one of the things thatreally struck me on this trip is
how quickly you can get fromthis aquatic mountain range, the
(01:09):
Andes, and up at high altitudedown into the wilds of the Amazon
rainforest.
Tim, I know you've had achance to travel around a little
bit this region as well.
What were some of yourimpressions of it?
Yeah, so I've been in theAndes, but not in Ecuador.
But I did go into the Amazonregion, and it was really interesting.
I stayed at this lodge whereyou had basically open windows.
(01:33):
So I remember just laying inbed and hearing the sounds of the
rainforest, and they wouldchange depending on the time of the
day.
So afternoon would have acertain tempo, evening would have
a different tempo, and thenovernight would have a different
sound as well.
And it was just absolutely beautiful.
I remember they had a.
A dry box because it was sohumid in the Amazon, so you could
(01:57):
put your passport, yourdevices in this dry box so that you
didn't.
They weren't affected by therainforest, but it was really a true
jungle experience, probablythe truest jungle experience that
I've ever had before.
Now, that's a while ago, David.
I know you were there muchmore recently.
Well, a lot of similarities inmy experience for sure, too.
(02:17):
We stayed in a couple ofreally cool spots, but one river,
Veto Ecolodge, sounds similarto what you experienced, where I
was staying in a room whereyour windows all opened up and it
was actually kind of perchedout over a river.
Whitewater rafting later that day.
But right in the middle of theAmazon rainforest, and as you say,
thousands of species of birds,you wake up to just the sounds of
(02:40):
the forest all around you andgo to sleep with the sounds of the
river running underneath your room.
And it had actually a bathtubbuilt out right over top of the river
so you could.
I know you're a guy who enjoysrelaxing in a room with a good bath
at the view.
This.
This.
You would have loved this one, Tim.
You were sitting out over theriver in the middle of an Amazon
rainforest, so right up your alley.
(03:00):
I love a bathtub.
And that sounds like a fairlyepic bathtub, actually.
Yeah, absolutely.
But why don't we go live toEcuador, where I had a chance to
sit down again with Philippefrom Two Degrees Expeditions, who
me on our tour of the regionand he's just opened up this kind
of.
This is kind of a lessexplored part of Ecuador where he
(03:22):
gets into on the loop thatwe've gone to explore.
So we'll let him tell us alittle bit about that.
(03:44):
We are here today in beautifulCuenca this is a wonderful city that
I have had a chance to spendthe last few days in and me and you
have spent the last few daysbefore that traveling around southern
Ecuador, probably a part ofEcuador that not as many tourists
get to or know about.
A little bit of an emergingdestination, I think it's fair to
(04:04):
say from a tourism perspective.
Why did you choose to take us there?
So I was researching.
I've always been in love withthe rainforest.
I think the rainforest is theplace where we all humans come from.
At some point 15 million yearsago there was a big glaciation 15,000
years ago there was a hugeglaciation and the people that moved
(04:27):
into these areas, they cameinto the rainforest and stayed.
So a lot of these communitiesthat are living in the rainforest
are actually some of thedescendants of these people and we
can find some of our roots there.
So I've always been in lovewith this place.
Rainforest in Amazon so I cameto live in Cuenca 13 years ago.
I'm originally from this citybut I was living in different places
(04:48):
so I decided to come back andsettle here and I was always thinking
how can I do a tour to thesouthern rainforest?
A place where everybody wouldlike to see something and maybe there's
attractions and culture andlandscapes and animals or anything.
So being here in the city fora long time, going to the rainforest
would be a challenge Would belike two days travel, ugly roads
(05:10):
and everything.
But then eventually the roadsgot better with new roads and new
systems.
So now these roads are nice.
It's like three hours awayfrom the city which is nothing.
You drive three hours and youare in a completely different spot.
So last year I had a calling Iwas like I need to go to the rainforest.
(05:33):
So I basically took my car andstarted driving down and talking
to people and finding thesenew places.
So I found this cacao placeand I was like, wow, this has to
be the first place we have to visit.
And then I found the guayusa place.
So this place where they showguayusa, which is a very important
drink in the rainforest whereall the rainforest cultures, Guayusa
is, is a sacred drink.
(05:54):
So I was like, these peopleare like selling they actually, you
can go and pick it up yourselfand then maybe buy it this is crazy.
So, and then I. I was lookingfor a nice hotel and I found this
place next to the river thatyou can actually sleep listening
to the river and close to theforest and.
And the best thing, you canjust go down to the hotel and take
a raft.
(06:15):
Yeah.
And draft down the river.
And this river is amazingbecause there's beautiful forests
and birds and people andthings to see.
So I thought it was perfect.
And then also after that, Istarted finding about the communities
that live there, that theseare the shuar people, the people
that have been priority forthousands of years in this place
(06:38):
and they received tourists.
They were actually thinking ofthe same idea of maybe developing
tourism in the area.
So for me it was perfect.
I think discovering thatthere's actually people in the other
side of the.
Of my city thinking ofdeveloping tourism and that I could
actually make an alliance withthem and help them protect their
culture, their forest and havelike a sustainable touristic project.
(06:58):
It was perfect.
So that's the reason Iactually developed the package of
the southeast loop.
Yeah.
And that southeast loop.
I mean, prior to youdeveloping this trip, it sounds like
there really hasn't been muchin terms of organized tours to get
you into that part of the country.
No, there's tourists to go tothe place, but not something organized,
not a package.
Specifically, people fromCuenca have been going to this place
(07:21):
in the last year because thisis kind of like came to be known
just a year ago.
Okay.
So people have been going, butthey only go for like the day, they
spend the day and then theycome back.
So there's nothing reallyorganized that connects.
All these attractions andconnects all these small rural communities
from agritourism to adventureto national parks.
So much that we were able topack in.
Yes.
And also like full gastronomy.
(07:43):
The idea of also having newexperiences or getting in touch with
these communities and walkingwith them, or walking barefoot inside
of the forest, like thesetypes of experiences are experiences
that have to be connected to apackage because on their own they
don't really mean anything for sure.
One of the things that reallystruck me is that in all the communities
(08:03):
that we went to, people havereally preserved their culture very
well.
I mean, you see thetraditional dress, you hear some
traditional music, traditional food.
Why do you think they've beenable to preserve their culture so
much more in so much more of astrong way here than you see in many
other places around the world?
Well, I think it's been a longprocess because the mestizos.
(08:25):
I'm a mestizo and most of theEcuadorians are mestizos, people
from the cities, they startedgoing into the rainforest and taking
places to do cattle oragriculture and displacing the local
communities like the Shuar.
So, so this brought a lot ofproblems and eventually this settled
into, okay, we use this spaceand you use this space, and maybe
(08:45):
we can work together in someof these places.
So that led to the recognizingthat we are a culture and we want
to keep this and conservethese parts.
So I think the Shuar peoplehave really, really clear ideas of
what they want to conserve.
They have mapped all of thetraditions and, and their ancestral
(09:05):
knowledge and they're tryingto show it to the people.
So I think otherwise thanthinking that these people are actually
dressing like that all day.
It's a fact that they haveembraced the western culture, but
they have kept the roots ofwhat they are.
Yeah, but even traveling inthe big cities here in Cuenca, you
still see a lot of people intraditional dress every day.
(09:27):
And yeah, they really, reallydo seem to have preserved their culture
and in a very unique way here.
The thing is that here,because of this process of colonization,
there's people that havedecided that they want to keep their
culture, they are who theyare, and they want to stay dressed
the way that they do.
So it's been very cool processto understand that these people want
(09:48):
to be or show to the outsideworld that they still have their
language, they still dress andthey still have some gastronomy that
they want to keep.
I think it's a process ofrecognizing who you are.
Yeah, identity.
I thought something else thatwas really unique about this trip
that we just did was, youknow, I think for a lot of people
in North America, the Andeshold a lot of attraction, mystery.
(10:12):
The Amazon also.
And to be able to go from theAndes to the Amazon, literally, I
mean, in some of the days itwas an hour, an hour and a half,
and we were traveling from,you know, the heights of the Andes
to the middle of therainforest, to these remote indigenous
communities.
And to be able to do there'sjust so much in such a short period
of time and such a widevariety from a cultural standpoint,
(10:34):
wildlife standpoint, just sucha mix of things in a few days time.
Yes, Ecuador has thisdiversity standpoint where actually
people can wake up in themorning in the rainforest, see the
sunrise, go have lunch in thehighlands with the sun, and then
drop down to the coast andactually see the sunset in the coast.
(10:55):
So Ecuador has that thing ofbeing able to move from different
Environments in small periodsof time and little short distances.
So from here, from Cuenca tothe upper highlands to the highest
spot that's 4,100 meters, it'sonly an hour.
And then from there to thecoast it's another hour and you're
actually on the coast completely.
(11:17):
And then to the sea, it's onlyfour hours away.
So.
So for us Ecuadorians, when Iwas younger, it would be fun.
People would be like friendswould be like, oh, let's go to have
ceviche in the morning.
And we would basically leavein the middle of the day and end
up in the afternoon having abeer in the ocean and then coming
back to the city.
Yeah.
(11:37):
So that type of experience Ithink is what forges into understanding
our country as a neighbor spotwhere you can do many different activities
in one day.
Yeah.
Or have different food in oneday, like Locro de papas or guinea
pig up in the highlands.
And then it's ceviche in the coast.
In the coast, yes.
Gastronomy was a huge part ofthis tour we just did.
I mean, we had the experience,as you say, on the cacao farm when
(12:00):
we first arrived.
Ecuador, renowned for itschocolate for sure, known around
the world.
We then got to finish off onour final day with a goat farm, some
goat cheese and getting that experience.
And we experienced aphenomenal restaurant.
Do you want to maybe talk alittle bit about the restaurant that
you're took us to?
Yeah.
So we went to a restaurantthat's called Chamuico and Samuel,
(12:24):
who is the owner of thisrestaurant, he went to Spain to work
as a worker.
But eventually he got a job ina restaurant and he learned a lot
of cooking techniques andstuff at a Michelin star restaurant.
So eventually he decided tocome back to his land and he established
a restaurant there.
So he's been improving hiscuisine with dishes that are prepared
(12:47):
with local products, actuallylocal products from his family and
from the surrounding areas.
So he's actually supportingthe conservation of products that
are getting lost and alsousing some of the techniques that
he learned in Europe to makenew things in Ecuador.
So the type of gastronomy thatyou get there is a fusion between
his knowledge and the local products.
(13:08):
It's really, really cool.
And then you can try differentflavors and different colors and
different smells because he'slike mixing all of these different
things.
Really, really cool experience.
We got Charlotte, I think itwas about a six course meal and the
presentation was phenomenal.
And it was really interestingtoo, the community that his restaurant
is based within.
(13:28):
And I'm trying to remember thename of the community we were in.
I mean, that was another greatexample of a place that's just very
unique culture.
And a lot of people from thehighlands who have come there and
have their own culture.
Yes, these Saraguru were whatwe call Mitmaq.
Mitmaq were people that theIncas decided to move away from their
place.
(13:48):
So either they were acommunity that had a lot of problems.
So they said, we're gonna moveyou and you're gonna be in a different
place.
So they took them priorityfrom Bolivia and they established
in this area.
It's an hour away from Cuenca.
And they are the.
It's interesting because asyou're driving, you start seeing
some people that are justdifferent and it's this culture that
is only in this area.
(14:09):
So the Saraguro are veryinteresting people, very organized,
very peaceful, very friendly.
And so this is Saraguro, thetown of these people.
So when you go to thisrestaurant, people come actually
in Serbia with the originaldresses and they talk about their
food and their traditions.
Yeah, it's really cool.
I thought another hugehighlight of our trip was the time
(14:30):
that we spent with the Shuar.
Do you want to talk a littlebit about that experience and what
that's like, paint the picturefor people what they would experience
there?
Yeah, for sure.
I think the visit to the Shoarwas incredible because we got to
be and to experience theculture of these Shuar people.
The Shuar were called the Jibaros.
They're part of a group that'scalled the Jibaros that includes
four different cultures in the rainforest.
(14:51):
The Jibaro people were knownfor being isolated in the rainforest
and they were not conquered bythe Incas or the Spanish, mainly
because they had poles on theoutside of their territories that
held shrunken heads.
So, yeah, people wouldn'treally get close to these communities
because they were really,really scared of having their heads
(15:12):
shrunken.
And eventually they managed tokeep their culture and keep their
language and their dresses andtheir gastronomy and all of their
cosmovision.
So the visit to this communitywas interesting because they showed
who they are and what they aremade for and also the type of dresses
that they use.
They explained all the dressesthat they use.
(15:32):
They also explained the food,how they go to the forest and what
do they find there.
So one of the days that wevisited, we were walking on an event
was happening at the forest.
A little worm or a littlecaterpillar from a butterfly had
spotted sprouted those days.
So it was in the trees andthey started calling them.
So these people would like,say, hoo, hoo.
(15:53):
And the little worms or littlecaterpillars just telling, like,
shaking their.
So they have this deepknowledge of the forest that allows
them to actually find thingsthat we wouldn't really see, because
none of us saw these except them.
And they were like, oh, we eatthese things and they are here.
So the rainforest, even thoughit's a place that it's always green
and it doesn't have snow oranything, it doesn't change.
(16:16):
It has these little events.
So they showed us theirknowledge of the forest.
They also showed the spiritualcontext where they live in what they
believe.
They did a small ceremony withtobacco, trying to show us how they
connect through the plants,through the medicine plants, to the
knowledge of the forest.
And then we also talked abouttheir longer language, the dances,
(16:38):
the.
They taught us a bit ofdancing and music.
So it was a very deepconnective experience that allowed
us also to get to knowincredible people that are really,
really friendly and luckilynot doing any shrunken heads anymore.
So I think this was like apart of the culture, and they acknowledge
it.
(16:58):
That's something that theyused to do, and now it's basically
the way of protecting their ancestry.
That's.
That's, I think, the mostimportant thing.
And they didn't actually talka lot about it, but they did mention
a little bit that ayahuascawas part of their spiritual ceremonies
and stuff that they do thereas well.
Yeah, ayahuasca is aninteresting thing because for these
people that have been forthousands of years in the forest,
(17:19):
ayahuasca is a plant thatdoesn't work on its own.
And somehow these people foundthat they could mix this plant with
this other plant and thecompounds of ayahuasca would be activated
so they could drink it andhave a spiritual hallucination experience
that would allow them to alsounderstand what was going on.
(17:41):
So shamans and people thatwork with these medicine plants can
actually heal people throughgoing deeper into their emotions
or their feelings and alsounderstanding what's going on.
So ayahuasca is a thing thatthey do, the shamans.
It's not something that you doevery day because it's very powerful.
And I don't think it should beseen as a drug also, because drugs
(18:04):
actually will get your hook on them.
Ayahuasca doesn't get yourhook on you.
You take it once and you wantto take it anymore.
So, yes, this is somethingthat The Shuar, the Jivaros and I
think most of the rainforestcultures actually do.
So it's kind of an interesting thing.
It's like the medicine of theforest for sure.
It was definitely, I mean youcould see this as an area where sustainable
(18:25):
tourism is very important.
It's very community based tourism.
I mean you're very much onthis trip that you have designed.
Interacting with the localcommunity very directly each stop
of the trip.
What kind of people do youthink this trip appeals to?
I think this trip is good for families.
I think families and kidswould really, really appreciate all
(18:46):
the experience either therafting that is not a difficult rafting
and something family oriented.
The visit to the Shuar I thinkwill change the minds of the visitors.
Families, kids, elders.
I think it's made for everyone.
I don't think there's a personthat wouldn't really enjoy this place
unless it's someone thatdoesn't really want to be outside.
(19:08):
But I don't think that's the idea.
I think we all need at somepoint to see some green and green
actually makes us feel very nice.
So I would say it's made for.
Everyone and very much, Iwould say like the people who are
into culture adventure.
This isn't an all inclusive in Cancun.
This is a bit more adventurousfor sure, but at the same time you're
still staying in beautifulplaces each evening.
(19:30):
I thought particularly therafting lodge we stayed in was great.
My room had a bathtub over theriver and a net that you could sit
in overlooking the river.
It was beautiful and reallysome unique accommodations.
We saw a really unique newaccommodations being built on the
cacao farm that we visited as well.
Some new infrastructure that'sbeing built there.
(19:52):
So definitely a moreadventurous trip but still lots of,
you know, comfortable at thesame time too.
Yeah.
Light adventure I guess, lightadventure say because if we want
to focus it into a more hardadventure we could do it but we wouldn't
include all the people.
So the idea with this tour isto be able to include most of the
public.
And also I think the otherplace is Copalinga, this forest lodge
(20:17):
where you sleep inside ofthese cabins in the middle of the
forest and you have birdswaking you up in the morning.
So these type of experiencesactually get people in touch to the
natural area.
I do believe that the Rio VidaLodge in Hualaquiza is a place that
actually gets you tounderstand the river and the forest
and the community.
(20:38):
It's a place where you, youcan rest of the noises of the city
because you have the river inthe backside and the birds.
So this place is not onlyabout sight, but also about listening,
about feeling, about everything.
It includes all the senses.
And if people want to find outmore about southern Ecuador and about
this trip specifically, andthey can probably find you out on
(21:00):
Instagram, where should theyfind you?
So my Instagram page is 2degrees because we're located 2 degrees
south of the equator.
So 2 degrees expeditions.
2 degrees expeditions is thename of our company.
We focus on tourism,ecotourism in the south of Ecuador,
but of course we operate inall the countries and we do Galapagos
(21:20):
tours and we also dorainforest highlands to actually
connect to this beautiful citythat is Cuenca.
And you were mentioning to metoo that you could even organize
trips connecting people fromthe south of Ecuador down into Peru
and back as well.
So if they want.
Peru is our neighbor and ourfriend country.
So we're actually making toursto connect to the south part of Peru,
to the north part of Peru, andthat could actually get you to Cusco
(21:42):
and to Lima and to other places.
So we are trying to make toconnect the Ecuador with Peru as
a whole country.
Well, it was an amazingexperience and thank you so much
for sharing your culture andsharing the experience with us over
the last few days.
It's been great.
Yeah, thank you, David.
It was amazing to have you onthe tour and I'm glad you enjoyed
it as much as I did.
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