June 24, 2025 • 18 mins
In this first of two special episodes on Rome, Italy, hosts David Brodie & Tim Johnson explore the Eternal City as it stands in 2025—where timeless beauty meets the buzz of modern travel. From the Colosseum to the Vatican, and from hilltop gardens to hidden sovereign territories, this episode offers an insightful and entertaining look at how to make the most of your time in Rome, especially if you're visiting during peak season.
In This Episode:
Is Rome Worth Visiting in High Season?
- Why the crowds and heat are worth it—and how to stay cool with tips like filling up at the city’s free nasoni fountains.
Iconic Rome
- Colosseum: Why booking ahead and joining a guided tour transforms your experience
- Trevi Fountain & Spanish Steps: Expect crowds, but don’t skip them—coin tosses and city views await
- Vatican Museums & Sistine Chapel: Must-see masterpieces—book timed tickets in advance
- St. Peter’s Basilica: No ticket required, but take time to explore quieter corners for moments of peace
- Keykeeper Tour Tip: Be the first inside the Vatican by joining a private early-morning opening tour
Off-the-Beaten-Path Highlights
- Access Italy’s Golf Cart Tour: A customizable and stylish way to explore the city’s hidden gems
- Giancarlos Beneditti Corcus: A local artist painting in the laneways near Piazza Navona
- Villa Borghese Gardens: Shady paths, scenic views, and quiet cafés—perfect for escaping the crowds
- Knights of St. John (Sovereign Military Order of Malta): A quirky micro-nation in Rome with its own flag, passports, and even UN observer status
How Many Countries Can You Visit in a Day?
- Rome lets you check off three countries in a single day—Italy, Vatican City, and (unofficially) the Sovereign Military Order of Malta
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Watch more travel content on our Voyascape YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@voyascape
Discover more travel tips at https://www.voyascape.com
Stay tuned for Part 2, where we’ll cover where to stay, what to eat, and how to get around the Eternal City.
Note: Some upcoming links may be affiliate links. If you book using them, there's no additional cost, but a small portion helps support this podcast. Grazie!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:20):
Well, they say that all roadslead to Rome, and with good reason.
From ancient ruins to rooftopapertivos, the eternal city has a
energy unlike anywhere else.
And on today's episode oftravel in 10, we're exploring what's
hot in Rome right now, wherethe timeless history of the 21st
century meets.
Cool.
And as always, talking toaward winning travel writer, my good
(00:41):
travel friend, Tim Johnson.
Tim, how are you doing?
Good.
David, how are you doing this week?
I'm doing great.
Now, Rome, this is, first ofall, this is the first time we are
going to Italy on TravelIntent, which I'm surprised looking
at our, our, our back catalogof episodes.
We, we haven't, we haven't hiton Italy yet.
I know it's somewhere both ofus have spent a fair bit of time,
but Rome was actually a city Ihave not made it to yet.
(01:02):
And to be honest, I've been alittle apprehensive to go there because
it's always struck me as aplace where there's these, you know,
wonders of the world andiconic things to see, like the Vatican
and the Coliseum.
But I also imagine it being abit overrun because of that and,
like, packed with tourists.
But I know you've been there alot and you've been there recently.
Tell me your impressions, whatyou love about Rome.
(01:24):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
I think you used a word inyour intro that is absolutely correct,
which is hot.
So right now, you know, we'regetting into the summer and with
a new Pope and all theheadlines, you know, Rome is definitely
a hot destination, meaningthat a lot of people are going to
be going there.
I think they're saying there'sgoing to be more guests, you know,
visiting Rome this summer thanever before.
(01:45):
And it's also a jubilee yearthis year, which I was not aware
of as I'm not a Catholic.
But on my recent visit just afew weeks ago, that was a theme of
some of the people that I wasspeaking with, that they were there
because it was a jubilee year.
And then the other, you know,implications of hot or that it's
just hot.
It's just going to be a hotsummer in Rome.
(02:06):
And so I was there also lastyear, a couple years ago when it
was in the middle of Augustand, you know, all we wanted to do
was find a little bit ofshade, a little bit of water and
a place to sit down after a while.
And I.
And as we go through all thethings to see and do in this city,
and there are so many, and itis worth, it is worth the crowds.
(02:28):
And it is definitely worth theheat because there really is so much
there.
I'm going to address some ofthat as well.
Places that are maybe a littlebit quieter, places that you can
get away from the crowds andmaybe just even places where, I mean,
one of my first tips before weget into anything else is that there
(02:48):
is a lot of free water in Rome.
I mean, I think we're allacquainted with tourist destinations
and how they, you know, youcan get 5, 6, 7 dollars for a bottle
of water.
But throughout Rome they havethese, what they call these nazoni
look like noses and they arefree water fountains.
And it is a clean source ofwater that flows underneath the city.
(03:10):
And I remember on that visitthe, not my last one, but with my
sister's family a year or twoago, we probably, we had our little
water bottles, we probablyrefilled them 10 times each throughout
the day.
And it is, it is just the, theabsolute best.
So if you're, for any of ourlisteners, if you're in Rome this
summer, take an empty waterbottle, look for the nasoni.
And that is a great way to,just a general tip to get through
(03:36):
a hot and busy but ultimatelyglorious day in Rome.
So it's worth the crowds, it'sworth making your way there.
Let's maybe start off with,for somebody's first trip to Rome,
some of those big iconic siteslike the Colosseum for example.
Any tips on how to organizeyour visit there, what you need to
(03:56):
know to, to arrange a visit?
Yeah, Coliseum for sure.
I think you have to go.
And again, there's a few ofthese attractions that for, for a
first time visitor for sure,you know, Coliseum being one of them,
Trevi Fountain being another one.
But for the Coliseum, I wouldsay just, just be prepared, like
(04:17):
book your ticket ahead becausethere's going to be a lot of demand
to get in there this summer,probably do a tour if I'm not even
sure they offer entrancewithout a tour.
But if they do definitely do atour because you know what you see
is impressive, but what itwas, was even more impressive.
So I remember the very firsttime like 20 plus years ago doing
(04:39):
a tour there.
And they, it really opens your eyes.
You can actually picture,okay, this is what it looked like
when the floor was here.
This is what it looked like.
You know, this is when thetypes of competitions that would
take place, okay, there werehow many, 50,000, however many screaming
people in these stands.
And, and, and you can pictureit not just being this sort of this
(05:00):
ruin which it is now animpressive ruin at that.
But, yeah, I would say bookahead, book a tour, and Trevi, Trevi
Fountain, some of the others.
Trevi Fountain, Spanish Steps, You.
You don't need an entrance ticket.
But I'd say just like, take adeep breath before you go, because,
you know, Trevi's.
You have to go.
The thing that you do there is.
You flip a co.
(05:21):
Coin over your shoulder and itmeans you'll come back to Rome.
But what you'll find is that,you know, like half the visitors
in the city at the time areall there trying to flip a coin over
their.
Their shoulder at the same time.
So just kind of like, youknow, be ready for a little bit of
a wait to kind of get to thefront and maybe there's going to
be a guy in your photo thatyou don't want to be in your photo
(05:43):
or whatever.
It's going to be like that, but.
But it's still worth it.
And Spanish Steps, you know,just walk, just walk to the top.
And, and they're great.
But.
But the.
You got to do the icons.
I know one that we're going totalk about was the Vatican.
Yeah, and the Vatican, ofcourse, you get, you get to check
off another country on yourlist when you, when you go visit
(06:03):
as well, don't you?
It's considered it someone country.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So, you know, it's greatbecause you, you can check.
Yeah, it counts as a country.
It's a, It's a real country.
There's no border crossing.
You don't have to get yourpassport stamped or anything like
that.
You do pass through a bit of a.
Almost like an airportsecurity situation, which I'm sure
is much more about the factthat some of the world's most priceless
(06:26):
artwork and is on displaythere, and they just want to make
sure that that's all protected.
But another, another countryon your list.
And with the Vatican, youknow, you kind of split it into.
I do.
I kind of split it into two things.
One is the.
If you're going to go to theVatican museums, so if you're going
to go to the Sistine Chapel,you're going to see that amazing,
(06:49):
you know, work on the ceiling,you know, that Michelangelo painted.
You're good.
Again, it's going to be likethe Coliseum.
Book it ahead.
You know, make sure you haveyour time slot.
Don't show up and just say,we're ready to go see Michelangelo.
Because especially in the, inthe high season, maybe in the low
season, you can sneak in that way.
But in the high season youreally are going to need that pre
(07:11):
timed ticket for, for the Main Basilica.
For St.
Peter's Basilica.
You really can just walk inand it's such a huge place, famously
huge.
I mean that's, that's, youknow, and what I would say is it's
busy.
There's a lot going on.
Sometimes they're holding a mass.
You'll certainly find peopleall around you that are doing tours.
(07:34):
For me, you know, I'm notCatholic, I know some of the history.
Anyway, I would do a littlereading on it beforehand, get the
background, you know, why thedome is so special, all of the martyrs
and saints that are buried there.
And for me, I had the most,just on this recent visit, had the
(07:56):
most special moment which wasagain, I'm not Catholic, but found
a little side chapel.
If you kind of get away fromthe main flow, you'll find these
little side chapels.
And they had one that wasreserved for people who were looking
for prayer.
Just, just, just looking for aplace to pray, I should say.
And it was like, it was likegoing back to the 1400s or something.
(08:19):
Like it was, they had theincense going.
There was, it was, the incensewas hanging in the air.
There was no noise.
If you got up and startedsnapping photos and whatever, they
would literally come over and ask.
I think I saw one person, youknow, please leave, you know, but
it's just a place that, youknow, to sit and enjoy sitting down
probably after a lot ofwalking and just let the significance
(08:44):
and the enormity of that placesink in.
And I would say just make sometime for that.
I did.
I probably sat there 20, 30minutes and just enjoyed being in
the, one of the, probably themost famous church in the world and
said a couple of prayers andreally, you know, and really just
(09:06):
felt the peace, you know, of,of, of that place.
So that was that.
That's a big one.
So, so those are the big, youknow, kind of the big ones.
Any other big ones that you.
Because I have some small onestoo, but.
Yeah, well, just was one morething before we leave the Vatican
is, is actually a tip I heardon another great travel podcast here
a couple of weeks ago.
(09:26):
There's a, there's a companycalled the Tour guys who I Barcelona
earlier this year and they'velaunched a podcast recently and they
were talking about a tour atthe Vatican.
I don't know if you ever comeacross this, Tim, but it's called
the Keykeeper Tour and it's,it's literally the, the guy who opens
up all the buildings?
The Vatican in the morning.
And it's quite, quite anexclusive tour, so fairly costly,
(09:48):
but you essentially get to goin this very small group where you
are the very first people inthe morning in the Sistine Chapel,
in, in all these iconiclocations throughout the Vatican.
Going in with the keykeeper ashe is opening them up in the morning
before anyone else has arrived.
And it sounded like aphenomenal experience.
And what I would recommend people.
(10:08):
That sounds incredible.
And I mean the Vatican is, youknow, it's known for lots of things,
but one is big, big crowds andlots of people and to, to be there
when those spaces are so quietand just right at the start of the
day, I think that would bejust absolutely incredible.
So yeah, so those, those are the.
Kind of the big ones.
Everybody knows what, what arelike one or two that people might
(10:29):
not know about a little bitmore under the radar.
So a couple, couple thingslike last time I was there I did
went with a company calledAccess Italy and they are kind of
like a, like a tour companyand they do all kinds of different
tours.
And one of the things they didwas a golf cart tour.
And these are fullycustomizable tours.
(10:52):
So in my case, I was chattingwith the staff at the hotel where
I was staying, which I'm goingto talk about the hotel as well.
Great family owned hotel.
And they said, where do youwant to go?
What do you want to do?
And I said, well, I've been toRome at least I don't know how many
times, six, seven times.
And I've seen all the main sites.
What do you suggest?
And they said, actually weknow this company, they will put
(11:12):
you in a golf cart with asuper knowledgeable driver who drives
a golf cart.
And then you just, you justsay, I want to see paintings or I
want to see history or I wantto see.
And it's fully customizable.
So I would say pretty much anyof our listeners, that's, that's
a good idea because for us wewent to see there's this artist right
(11:34):
near Piazza Navona namedGiancarlos Benediti Corcos.
And he is an artist who just,he just paints in the laneway and
that's, he's a tiny littlestudio where he stores his stuff,
but the laneway is really hisstudio and you can chat with him.
He's a character.
(11:55):
It was a funny experiencebecause we had bicycles and Vespas
and whatever everyone's tryingto push through.
It's like an open lane it'snot even a pedestrian lane.
And he's there trying to paintand trying to show you his other
stuff and tell you about hislife and quirky, interesting guy.
So you can go.
I mean, if you go near PiazzaNavona and just ask for this guy,
(12:15):
for sure they can direct youto go and talk to him.
He's painted this.
His interpretation of the citymap and things like that.
Or if you ask them, they cantake you there.
I did mention off the topabout doing kind of quieter, more
shady, you know, to beat theheat kind of places.
(12:37):
And there's this amazinghilltop park that surrounds Villa
Borghese.
So that's up.
Up on the hills, you know, Rome.
And it's what.
It's seven hills.
And this was an old palace,and now it's surrounded by a huge,
huge park network with pathsand tons of shade and little tiny
cafes, you know, where you canjust get a.
(12:57):
Get some water, get a coffee,get even a little bit of lunch.
And then the views back, youknow, over.
Over Rome are absolutely beautiful.
That's definitely worth it fora walk.
And then the last thing,there's a place called the Knights
of St.
John.
So we were talking about theVatican and being able to visit two
countries in a day.
(13:17):
Rome is actually a place whereyou can visit three countries in
a day.
The third one may or not be acountry, depending on your definition,
but there is the KnightsHospitalier of St.
John, who we still see, youknow, through St.
John's Ambulance and someother manifestations.
(13:38):
There's.
They were a crusading forceand they ruled Malta and they ruled
Rhodes.
And that Maltese cross isstill famous in a lot of places.
They.
That order now just has abuilding in Rome, but they produce
their own stamps, they producetheir own passports.
They have observ observerstatus at the United Nations.
(13:59):
I had the unique andinteresting experience of pretending
I had a meeting there and theylet me in, you know, just.
Just barely inside and waseventually asked to leave.
But.
But it was kind of a coolexperience to be able to see the
big Maltese Cross in thecourtyard and talk to a couple of
them before being escortedback out towards the Spanish Steps.
(14:22):
And.
But it is an even.
Just to walk by and see the plaque.
If you.
If you see.
If you look down from theSpanish Steps from the top, you will
see a giant Maltese Cross flag flying.
And that does mark theirterritory in Rome.
So kind of a quirky,interesting area.
So you pretended to have ameeting here just to get in and check
(14:44):
off an extra Extra country.
Off your country.
That's correct.
They, they.
I rang the buzzer.
I thought, I'm gonna, I'llring the buzzer and just see what
happens, you know.
The door opened and I thought,okay, step one, step two, here we
go.
And the man I spoke with spokevery little English.
And he just said, do you havea meeting?
And I said, yes, yes, I do.
(15:05):
Because I just thought, well,let's see how far I can get.
And he said, is it with John?
I said, yeah, it's with John, totally.
And right now, so.
And he made a phone call andas he was on the phone, his face
just kind of darkened, youknow, like he's.
He's getting the news thatJohn doesn't have a meeting this
(15:26):
morning with a guy wearingcargo shorts from Canada, you know.
And you were busted.
Yeah, I was busted.
And he was actually prettynice about it.
He, you know, hung up thephone and he said, okay, you, you,
you must leave so you'reextradited is what.
You'Re telling me from this.
Exactly.
But I still got my check inthe box.
And he was nice enoughactually to, to take my picture in
(15:47):
the court.
They have like a courtyardwith a Maltese cross.
And I got.
He did take my picture there,which I was kind of shocked.
It was a bit of a.
A bold ask, you know, afterbeing sort of shuffled summarily
out.
But anyway, get it.
And there you go.
So.
So, Ro.
You can actually visit threecountries in one day.
That's impressive.
(16:08):
Is that your record?
Three, three countries.
My is my record.
So yeah, it.
I have done just once, but Idid four in one day is my.
Record so far, actually.
Four.
Four is my record.
I did long time ago when I wasliving in northern France.
We were going on a shoppingtrip with friends.
I was going on a shopping tripwith friends and we left France.
(16:28):
We drove across Belgium.
The place we.
The specialty store we weregoing to for baseball equipment was
in Holland, was in theNetherlands, but we took a wrong
turn and ended up in Germany.
So that was.
That was.
There you go.
That was four.
But maybe like, maybe three onfoot was my record for country on
countries on full day.
(16:50):
So.
Yeah.
All right, well, I see we're.
We're coming up.
We've gone.
We've gone past the 10 minutemark and I know we still want to
get to hotels, we want to getto where to eat, and I really want
to hear a little bit more.
I mean, you've been there six,seven times.
A little bit about kind of thearrival experience.
How to get around the city.
So maybe we will do a secondepisode this week and come back and
dig in a little bit more to that.
That kind of where to stay,where to eat, a little bit more of
(17:11):
the.
The practicalities of a.
Of a trip to Rome this summer.
Sounds perfect.
Can't wait.
All right, thanks.
Him.
Well, they say that all roadslead to Rome, and with good reason.
From ancient ruins to rooftopapertivos, the eternal city has a
energy unlike anywhere else.
And on today's episode oftravel in 10, we're exploring what's
hot in Rome right now, wherethe timeless history of the 21st
century meets.
Cool.
And as always, talking toaward winning travel writer, my good
(00:41):
travel friend, Tim Johnson.
Tim, how are you doing?
Good.
David, how are you doing this week?
I'm doing great.
Now, Rome, this is, first ofall, this is the first time we are
going to Italy on TravelIntent, which I'm surprised looking
at our, our, our back catalogof episodes.
We, we haven't, we haven't hiton Italy yet.
I know it's somewhere both ofus have spent a fair bit of time,
but Rome was actually a city Ihave not made it to yet.
(01:02):
And to be honest, I've been alittle apprehensive to go there because
it's always struck me as aplace where there's these, you know,
wonders of the world andiconic things to see, like the Vatican
and the Coliseum.
But I also imagine it being abit overrun because of that and,
like, packed with tourists.
But I know you've been there alot and you've been there recently.
Tell me your impressions, whatyou love about Rome.
(01:24):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
I think you used a word inyour intro that is absolutely correct,
which is hot.
So right now, you know, we'regetting into the summer and with
a new Pope and all theheadlines, you know, Rome is definitely
a hot destination, meaningthat a lot of people are going to
be going there.
I think they're saying there'sgoing to be more guests, you know,
visiting Rome this summer thanever before.
(01:45):
And it's also a jubilee yearthis year, which I was not aware
of as I'm not a Catholic.
But on my recent visit just afew weeks ago, that was a theme of
some of the people that I wasspeaking with, that they were there
because it was a jubilee year.
And then the other, you know,implications of hot or that it's
just hot.
It's just going to be a hotsummer in Rome.
(02:06):
And so I was there also lastyear, a couple years ago when it
was in the middle of Augustand, you know, all we wanted to do
was find a little bit ofshade, a little bit of water and
a place to sit down after a while.
And I.
And as we go through all thethings to see and do in this city,
and there are so many, and itis worth, it is worth the crowds.
(02:28):
And it is definitely worth theheat because there really is so much
there.
I'm going to address some ofthat as well.
Places that are maybe a littlebit quieter, places that you can
get away from the crowds andmaybe just even places where, I mean,
one of my first tips before weget into anything else is that there
(02:48):
is a lot of free water in Rome.
I mean, I think we're allacquainted with tourist destinations
and how they, you know, youcan get 5, 6, 7 dollars for a bottle
of water.
But throughout Rome they havethese, what they call these nazoni
look like noses and they arefree water fountains.
And it is a clean source ofwater that flows underneath the city.
(03:10):
And I remember on that visitthe, not my last one, but with my
sister's family a year or twoago, we probably, we had our little
water bottles, we probablyrefilled them 10 times each throughout
the day.
And it is, it is just the, theabsolute best.
So if you're, for any of ourlisteners, if you're in Rome this
summer, take an empty waterbottle, look for the nasoni.
And that is a great way to,just a general tip to get through
(03:36):
a hot and busy but ultimatelyglorious day in Rome.
So it's worth the crowds, it'sworth making your way there.
Let's maybe start off with,for somebody's first trip to Rome,
some of those big iconic siteslike the Colosseum for example.
Any tips on how to organizeyour visit there, what you need to
(03:56):
know to, to arrange a visit?
Yeah, Coliseum for sure.
I think you have to go.
And again, there's a few ofthese attractions that for, for a
first time visitor for sure,you know, Coliseum being one of them,
Trevi Fountain being another one.
But for the Coliseum, I wouldsay just, just be prepared, like
(04:17):
book your ticket ahead becausethere's going to be a lot of demand
to get in there this summer,probably do a tour if I'm not even
sure they offer entrancewithout a tour.
But if they do definitely do atour because you know what you see
is impressive, but what itwas, was even more impressive.
So I remember the very firsttime like 20 plus years ago doing
(04:39):
a tour there.
And they, it really opens your eyes.
You can actually picture,okay, this is what it looked like
when the floor was here.
This is what it looked like.
You know, this is when thetypes of competitions that would
take place, okay, there werehow many, 50,000, however many screaming
people in these stands.
And, and, and you can pictureit not just being this sort of this
(05:00):
ruin which it is now animpressive ruin at that.
But, yeah, I would say bookahead, book a tour, and Trevi, Trevi
Fountain, some of the others.
Trevi Fountain, Spanish Steps, You.
You don't need an entrance ticket.
But I'd say just like, take adeep breath before you go, because,
you know, Trevi's.
You have to go.
The thing that you do there is.
You flip a co.
(05:21):
Coin over your shoulder and itmeans you'll come back to Rome.
But what you'll find is that,you know, like half the visitors
in the city at the time areall there trying to flip a coin over
their.
Their shoulder at the same time.
So just kind of like, youknow, be ready for a little bit of
a wait to kind of get to thefront and maybe there's going to
be a guy in your photo thatyou don't want to be in your photo
(05:43):
or whatever.
It's going to be like that, but.
But it's still worth it.
And Spanish Steps, you know,just walk, just walk to the top.
And, and they're great.
But.
But the.
You got to do the icons.
I know one that we're going totalk about was the Vatican.
Yeah, and the Vatican, ofcourse, you get, you get to check
off another country on yourlist when you, when you go visit
(06:03):
as well, don't you?
It's considered it someone country.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So, you know, it's greatbecause you, you can check.
Yeah, it counts as a country.
It's a, It's a real country.
There's no border crossing.
You don't have to get yourpassport stamped or anything like
that.
You do pass through a bit of a.
Almost like an airportsecurity situation, which I'm sure
is much more about the factthat some of the world's most priceless
(06:26):
artwork and is on displaythere, and they just want to make
sure that that's all protected.
But another, another countryon your list.
And with the Vatican, youknow, you kind of split it into.
I do.
I kind of split it into two things.
One is the.
If you're going to go to theVatican museums, so if you're going
to go to the Sistine Chapel,you're going to see that amazing,
(06:49):
you know, work on the ceiling,you know, that Michelangelo painted.
You're good.
Again, it's going to be likethe Coliseum.
Book it ahead.
You know, make sure you haveyour time slot.
Don't show up and just say,we're ready to go see Michelangelo.
Because especially in the, inthe high season, maybe in the low
season, you can sneak in that way.
But in the high season youreally are going to need that pre
(07:11):
timed ticket for, for the Main Basilica.
For St.
Peter's Basilica.
You really can just walk inand it's such a huge place, famously
huge.
I mean that's, that's, youknow, and what I would say is it's
busy.
There's a lot going on.
Sometimes they're holding a mass.
You'll certainly find peopleall around you that are doing tours.
(07:34):
For me, you know, I'm notCatholic, I know some of the history.
Anyway, I would do a littlereading on it beforehand, get the
background, you know, why thedome is so special, all of the martyrs
and saints that are buried there.
And for me, I had the most,just on this recent visit, had the
(07:56):
most special moment which wasagain, I'm not Catholic, but found
a little side chapel.
If you kind of get away fromthe main flow, you'll find these
little side chapels.
And they had one that wasreserved for people who were looking
for prayer.
Just, just, just looking for aplace to pray, I should say.
And it was like, it was likegoing back to the 1400s or something.
(08:19):
Like it was, they had theincense going.
There was, it was, the incensewas hanging in the air.
There was no noise.
If you got up and startedsnapping photos and whatever, they
would literally come over and ask.
I think I saw one person, youknow, please leave, you know, but
it's just a place that, youknow, to sit and enjoy sitting down
probably after a lot ofwalking and just let the significance
(08:44):
and the enormity of that placesink in.
And I would say just make sometime for that.
I did.
I probably sat there 20, 30minutes and just enjoyed being in
the, one of the, probably themost famous church in the world and
said a couple of prayers andreally, you know, and really just
(09:06):
felt the peace, you know, of,of, of that place.
So that was that.
That's a big one.
So, so those are the big, youknow, kind of the big ones.
Any other big ones that you.
Because I have some small onestoo, but.
Yeah, well, just was one morething before we leave the Vatican
is, is actually a tip I heardon another great travel podcast here
a couple of weeks ago.
(09:26):
There's a, there's a companycalled the Tour guys who I Barcelona
earlier this year and they'velaunched a podcast recently and they
were talking about a tour atthe Vatican.
I don't know if you ever comeacross this, Tim, but it's called
the Keykeeper Tour and it's,it's literally the, the guy who opens
up all the buildings?
The Vatican in the morning.
And it's quite, quite anexclusive tour, so fairly costly,
(09:48):
but you essentially get to goin this very small group where you
are the very first people inthe morning in the Sistine Chapel,
in, in all these iconiclocations throughout the Vatican.
Going in with the keykeeper ashe is opening them up in the morning
before anyone else has arrived.
And it sounded like aphenomenal experience.
And what I would recommend people.
(10:08):
That sounds incredible.
And I mean the Vatican is, youknow, it's known for lots of things,
but one is big, big crowds andlots of people and to, to be there
when those spaces are so quietand just right at the start of the
day, I think that would bejust absolutely incredible.
So yeah, so those, those are the.
Kind of the big ones.
Everybody knows what, what arelike one or two that people might
(10:29):
not know about a little bitmore under the radar.
So a couple, couple thingslike last time I was there I did
went with a company calledAccess Italy and they are kind of
like a, like a tour companyand they do all kinds of different
tours.
And one of the things they didwas a golf cart tour.
And these are fullycustomizable tours.
(10:52):
So in my case, I was chattingwith the staff at the hotel where
I was staying, which I'm goingto talk about the hotel as well.
Great family owned hotel.
And they said, where do youwant to go?
What do you want to do?
And I said, well, I've been toRome at least I don't know how many
times, six, seven times.
And I've seen all the main sites.
What do you suggest?
And they said, actually weknow this company, they will put
(11:12):
you in a golf cart with asuper knowledgeable driver who drives
a golf cart.
And then you just, you justsay, I want to see paintings or I
want to see history or I wantto see.
And it's fully customizable.
So I would say pretty much anyof our listeners, that's, that's
a good idea because for us wewent to see there's this artist right
(11:34):
near Piazza Navona namedGiancarlos Benediti Corcos.
And he is an artist who just,he just paints in the laneway and
that's, he's a tiny littlestudio where he stores his stuff,
but the laneway is really hisstudio and you can chat with him.
He's a character.
(11:55):
It was a funny experiencebecause we had bicycles and Vespas
and whatever everyone's tryingto push through.
It's like an open lane it'snot even a pedestrian lane.
And he's there trying to paintand trying to show you his other
stuff and tell you about hislife and quirky, interesting guy.
So you can go.
I mean, if you go near PiazzaNavona and just ask for this guy,
(12:15):
for sure they can direct youto go and talk to him.
He's painted this.
His interpretation of the citymap and things like that.
Or if you ask them, they cantake you there.
I did mention off the topabout doing kind of quieter, more
shady, you know, to beat theheat kind of places.
(12:37):
And there's this amazinghilltop park that surrounds Villa
Borghese.
So that's up.
Up on the hills, you know, Rome.
And it's what.
It's seven hills.
And this was an old palace,and now it's surrounded by a huge,
huge park network with pathsand tons of shade and little tiny
cafes, you know, where you canjust get a.
(12:57):
Get some water, get a coffee,get even a little bit of lunch.
And then the views back, youknow, over.
Over Rome are absolutely beautiful.
That's definitely worth it fora walk.
And then the last thing,there's a place called the Knights
of St.
John.
So we were talking about theVatican and being able to visit two
countries in a day.
(13:17):
Rome is actually a place whereyou can visit three countries in
a day.
The third one may or not be acountry, depending on your definition,
but there is the KnightsHospitalier of St.
John, who we still see, youknow, through St.
John's Ambulance and someother manifestations.
(13:38):
There's.
They were a crusading forceand they ruled Malta and they ruled
Rhodes.
And that Maltese cross isstill famous in a lot of places.
They.
That order now just has abuilding in Rome, but they produce
their own stamps, they producetheir own passports.
They have observ observerstatus at the United Nations.
(13:59):
I had the unique andinteresting experience of pretending
I had a meeting there and theylet me in, you know, just.
Just barely inside and waseventually asked to leave.
But.
But it was kind of a coolexperience to be able to see the
big Maltese Cross in thecourtyard and talk to a couple of
them before being escortedback out towards the Spanish Steps.
(14:22):
And.
But it is an even.
Just to walk by and see the plaque.
If you.
If you see.
If you look down from theSpanish Steps from the top, you will
see a giant Maltese Cross flag flying.
And that does mark theirterritory in Rome.
So kind of a quirky,interesting area.
So you pretended to have ameeting here just to get in and check
(14:44):
off an extra Extra country.
Off your country.
That's correct.
They, they.
I rang the buzzer.
I thought, I'm gonna, I'llring the buzzer and just see what
happens, you know.
The door opened and I thought,okay, step one, step two, here we
go.
And the man I spoke with spokevery little English.
And he just said, do you havea meeting?
And I said, yes, yes, I do.
(15:05):
Because I just thought, well,let's see how far I can get.
And he said, is it with John?
I said, yeah, it's with John, totally.
And right now, so.
And he made a phone call andas he was on the phone, his face
just kind of darkened, youknow, like he's.
He's getting the news thatJohn doesn't have a meeting this
(15:26):
morning with a guy wearingcargo shorts from Canada, you know.
And you were busted.
Yeah, I was busted.
And he was actually prettynice about it.
He, you know, hung up thephone and he said, okay, you, you,
you must leave so you'reextradited is what.
You'Re telling me from this.
Exactly.
But I still got my check inthe box.
And he was nice enoughactually to, to take my picture in
(15:47):
the court.
They have like a courtyardwith a Maltese cross.
And I got.
He did take my picture there,which I was kind of shocked.
It was a bit of a.
A bold ask, you know, afterbeing sort of shuffled summarily
out.
But anyway, get it.
And there you go.
So.
So, Ro.
You can actually visit threecountries in one day.
That's impressive.
(16:08):
Is that your record?
Three, three countries.
My is my record.
So yeah, it.
I have done just once, but Idid four in one day is my.
Record so far, actually.
Four.
Four is my record.
I did long time ago when I wasliving in northern France.
We were going on a shoppingtrip with friends.
I was going on a shopping tripwith friends and we left France.
(16:28):
We drove across Belgium.
The place we.
The specialty store we weregoing to for baseball equipment was
in Holland, was in theNetherlands, but we took a wrong
turn and ended up in Germany.
So that was.
That was.
There you go.
That was four.
But maybe like, maybe three onfoot was my record for country on
countries on full day.
(16:50):
So.
Yeah.
All right, well, I see we're.
We're coming up.
We've gone.
We've gone past the 10 minutemark and I know we still want to
get to hotels, we want to getto where to eat, and I really want
to hear a little bit more.
I mean, you've been there six,seven times.
A little bit about kind of thearrival experience.
How to get around the city.
So maybe we will do a secondepisode this week and come back and
dig in a little bit more to that.
That kind of where to stay,where to eat, a little bit more of
(17:11):
the.
The practicalities of a.
Of a trip to Rome this summer.
Sounds perfect.
Can't wait.
All right, thanks.
Him.
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