June 26, 2025 • 21 mins
In the second part of our Rome series, Travel in 10 host David Brodie reconnects with award-winning travel writer Tim Johnson, who shares fresh insights from his recent visit to the Italian capital. From smart tips on navigating the city to unforgettable pasta spots and hotel recommendations, this episode focuses on the practicalities of planning a great first trip to Rome—especially if you want to avoid the crowds, find the perfect meal, and stay somewhere memorable.
In This Episode:
Arriving in Rome: What to Know
- Fiumicino (Leonardo da Vinci) Airport is located outside the city—expect a 45+ minute transfer
- Public transit works well but doesn’t reach everywhere due to underground ruins
- Uber operates as a taxi-hailing service; local taxis are plentiful
- Don’t let transit logistics ruin your day—sometimes a cab is worth it
When to Visit
- May and September are ideal: fewer crowds, great weather
- Be mindful of Italian holidays—some local businesses may close in August
- Rome is always busy, but some shoulder-season planning can ease the experience
Where to Eat: Rome’s Food Scene
- Trastevere: A bohemian neighborhood beyond the river, full of narrow laneways and packed with locals and hidden gems
- 50 Kalò di Ciro Salvo: Neapolitan-style pizza, named one of Italy’s best by The New York Times
- Trattoria della Stampa: Small, atmospheric Roman eatery known for its classic pastas: carbonara, cacio e pepe, and amatriciana. Affordable and beloved by locals—reserve ahead!
Where to Stay
- Hotel Hassler: Iconic, family-owned hotel at the top of the Spanish Steps with panoramic views of the Vatican and central Rome
- The Edition Rome: Sleek, modern, design-forward luxury
- St. Regis Rome: Classic elegance with historic character and excellent service
- Waldorf Astoria Rome (Rome Cavalieri): A hillside retreat with resort vibes—perfect for escaping the city buzz
Can’t-Miss Hidden Gems
- Basilica Santa Maria del Popolo: A lesser-known church with two original Caravaggio masterpieces. Open limited hours. Bring a €2 coin to light up the artwork.
- Insider Tip: Ask locals—concierges, tour guides, shopkeepers—for under-the-radar finds. Rome has layers of history and culture waiting to be uncovered.
Explore more at: https://www.voyascape.com
Next up: We head to Lisbon, Portugal, followed by a special guest episode from Paris with Oliver Gee of The Earful Tower. Stay tuned—and don’t forget to send us your travel questions and destination requests.
Note: Some links may be affiliate links. If you book through them, there’s no added cost to you, but it helps support the podcast. Thanks!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Foreign.
So we are back for our secondepisode this week, digging into things
to see and do on a first tripto Rome.
Tim has been there.
What were you saying?
Six, seven times now that you,you have traveled to Rome?
(00:32):
At least six or seven times,maybe more.
Yeah.
And when was the most recent?
Was just.
Was fairly recently.
You were, you were there,wasn't it?
Yeah, I was there within,within the month.
I was there about three daysat the end of a cruise about a month
ago.
So, yeah, a lot of.
Very fresh.
Yeah.
So I mean, one of the thingsthat we haven't had a chance to talk
about and I'm curious about isthat that kind of arrival experience
(00:52):
when you first get into Rome.
What, what that's like, how doyou get around the city?
Have they got Ubers?
Have they got Lyft?
Have they got.
What's public transportation like?
What's that arrival experiencelike as you get into the city at
any, any tips that peopleshould be thinking about when they,
when they first get in?
For sure, for sure.
One thing to be aware of isthat the, the, the main airport in
Rome is west of the city.
(01:13):
It's not one of these airports.
And we're going to be at somepoint talking about Lisbon.
Lisbon has an airport that islike, you could almost ride your
bicycle there.
You know, it's like so close.
That is not the case in Rome.
It is out of the city and soyou have to be prepared for a longish
drive in a taxi or an Uber orby taking the train is actually quite
(01:35):
a good option as well.
There's a good train link interms of getting around the city.
Public transit is good whereit's good.
And by that I mean there are,there are buses, there are, there's
a good metro system, but itjust doesn't go everywhere.
You know, the trams and allthat kind of stuff.
It just, I think when theywere building it, and this may be
(01:57):
slightly apocryphal, but Ithink it's true when they were building
it, they ended up running intoa lot of like underground ruins and
things like that that theycouldn't build through.
And so it's not a city likeParis or London where you can basically
get on the metro and goanywhere and you're there.
There are parts of the citythat can be a bit difficult to reach
(02:17):
by public transit.
So I would say, you know, haveyour Google Maps ready if you're
going to a place.
We're going to talk aboutTrastevere later, Trastaire later.
And that is a part of the cityis not well connected by public transit.
So.
So you're going to have tomaybe make some hard decisions on.
Okay, it's really worth the.
(02:38):
Oh, public transit, 20 minutes.
Great.
But, oh, is it worth 55minutes to.
And three changes on the busto get there?
Taxis are everywhere andthey're pretty good.
Uber, they, I believe the onlyUber that they have there.
And I might be wrong, but myexperience was that it's like an
Uber taxi.
So it's like, it's a me, it'sa taxi that you get through Uber.
(03:00):
So that's.
And it worked well for me.
I used it a number of times.
So the, the one bigrecommendation overall that I have
for Rome is in terms oftransportation is don't let it ruin
your day.
Like, don't, don't try so hardto get there on foot or on public
transit to save a few bucksthat you're going to show up sweaty
(03:22):
and hot and tired and frustrated.
Because that, that can happenvery easily.
I would say if you look at theUber and okay, it's a little more
than I want to pay for the Uber.
Pay for the Uber.
Do it.
Because when you get there,wherever you're going, if you're
going to the Coliseum, ifyou're going to, you know, whatever,
the Spanish Steps, TreviFountain, it's going to be busy and
(03:43):
there's going to be a lot ofpeople there.
And so I would say like, likeget there as, as, as quickly and
efficiently as possible and,and then worry about your future
Visa bill next month, youknow, so.
Yeah, that's always good advice.
Really?
Yeah, it is.
Anywhere in the world, really.
Right.
So.
And how, like, how long westand there, I mean, how many days
do you think you really needto, to immerse yourself in Rome?
(04:05):
And is there any time fromyour experience, it's kind of a bit
better to, to go to avoid someof the crush of crowds, but still,
still catch a lot of the bestof the city as well.
Yeah, for sure.
I was just there.
What are we now?
I was there middle of May, Iwould say.
And that was perfect becauseit was, it was warm without being
(04:26):
hot.
So, like, it was warm enoughthat you could.
I walked around with shorts onand, and, and felt perfectly comfortable.
Yes, it was busy.
I think Rome's gonna be busyno matter when you visit.
But the big summer crowdshadn't arrived yet.
And so I would say, like, Mayand September are probably really
good times to visit.
(04:47):
With the caveat that peopleshould always Check when the Italian
holidays are, because theItalians get, you know, a block of
two weeks of holidays andgenerally actually they get out of
the cities during the holidays.
So you'd think it's a good thing.
But, you know, but noteveryone gets out of the cities and
maybe people from the smalltowns come into the cities.
(05:07):
And so, you know, just keep aneye on that because that will have
an impact on room rates,that'll have an impact on, you know,
pretty much everything interms of crowdedness.
And, and so I would say.
But I would say, as with a lotof destinations, you're going to
get almost perfect weather,especially in the first half of May
and maybe the second half ofSeptember, and that those would be
(05:29):
the times that I would go.
I'm curious.
I mean, I've been to Italy acouple times during August and one
of the things that kind ofsurprised me a bit.
I mean, in North America,August is peak tourist time.
Peak tourist season.
Everything is up and runningand going.
I tended to find in Italy.
I mean, it's.
There's definite.
No shortage of tourists there then.
But a lot of the Italians are.
That's when they're takingsome time off.
(05:50):
That's.
They're.
They're heading off to moreremote places.
So a lot of businesses wereclosed down, a lot of restaurants
were closing early.
Is it the same in Rome or isRome just such a massive, you know,
global tourist destinationthat if you go there in August you're
still going to find, you know,everything still going full speed?
Honestly, I would say mostthings because it's Rome are going
(06:11):
to be open and operating.
I have run into similarexperiences in other places around
Italy and around the worldwhere that is the case.
I would say just that.
That is, that's a good point.
I think that's something to beaware of because if, you know, if,
oh, say you follow somebodywho does.
I'm just making it up.
Paper mache puppets on TikTokand they have a tiny little shop
(06:35):
in Rome.
Like if you go there, thepaper mache puppet lady, she might
be on vacation in the store.
It might be boarded up for the month.
Yeah, it might be.
Yeah, exactly.
You may not find her.
If it's like a pastarestaurant you really like and it's
like a normal pastarestaurant, it's probably going to
be open all through the summer.
But that's a good point.
(06:56):
That small boutique ishspecialty places.
Yeah.
You might find that they'reclosed down during those.
And so, yeah, just being awarebecause even transit schedules can
change during those months,months or those weeks when, when
Italians are taking their vacations.
So it's just a good, it's agood provision to make a good thing
(07:17):
to have in mind before yourvisit to plan for it.
Yeah.
Okay, so you talked a littlebit about.
Well, you've referenced this afew times.
A few areas of the city thatyou found great for food and Rome
is very much a foodie capital.
What are a couple of your favorites?
A few campuses when it comesto places to eat.
Travis Terry I think it'sTravis Dairy, but it is a former.
(07:37):
I believe the name meansbeyond the river.
It was a working class, bluecollar neighborhood.
And so the story I've heard isthat the laneways there, it's this
wonderful little labyrinth of laneways.
The laneways were so narrowbecause they didn't need to provide
enough room for horses andcarriages because anyone who went
(07:58):
there was going on footbecause they were walking to their
blue collar job and they werewalking home.
And so there was none of thewealth, none of the need for that
kind of transportation.
Anyway, what it's become todayis it's not blue collar, but it still
has this kind of bohemian feel.
And so many fantasticrestaurants and cafes.
(08:21):
It's got record shops.
It's the cool place to be in Rome.
The downside is that also hasmade it extremely popular.
It's been well covered inother places as well.
But I'd say even with thecrowds, I was there.
I went on a Friday night whenI was there a few weeks ago, tons
of people.
But the, but the good thing isthat it seemed to be, you know, 80,
(08:44):
90% Romans, local people.
And then, you know, thetourists are going to come as well.
But this is where the Romanswere going also on their Friday night
to grab a quick bite.
And I went to a pasta place.
I don't have it written downhere, but if you.
It's the most famous pasta in,in the neighborhood.
And it's one of these placeswhere no reservations, you just line
(09:05):
up.
And I got there early,fortunately early by Italian standards.
6, 6, 30.
And I was first in line.
So I still had to wait about20, 30 minutes.
But by the time I was seated,I think the line, you know, there
were probably, I don't know,20, 25, 30 people in line.
But just even if you're goingfor a drink, even if you're just
(09:27):
going for a little bit,Trastevere is really, really a fantastic
neighborhood in terms of myfavorite restaurant I want to talk
about.
And then I mean Rome, it'stough, I'm going to mention too quickly
because I mean Rome, we coulddo, you know, we could do a hundred
episodes on Roman food and wewould never finish.
(09:48):
Right.
I mean, there's just so manygreat restaurants.
So I'm, I've kind of heavilyedited my list.
But if you're into pizza, youknow, I don't first time visitors
will know Rome's notparticularly well known for its pizza.
They make pizza, it's Italy.
But Naples is the city reallyfor the pizza.
But there is, and I'm surethis is not the Italian pronunciation,
(10:09):
but it's 50.
I'm going to say it like aEnglish speaker that I am 50 Calo
de Ciro salvo.
That ciro might be a chiro andit's a Neapolitan style pizza.
So if you go to Italy lookingfor a pizza, this is probably the
place that you should go.
The New York Times named itone of the best pizzas in Italy.
(10:29):
I think it's the best pizza in Rome.
And I've been to Naples justfor the pizza a couple times and
I would say they've got allthose things, the buffalo mozzarella
and the beautiful tomato sauceand that light, light crust.
Everything that makes aNeapolitan pizza special, they've
got that there.
And I'm going to give one more recommendation.
(10:50):
As I said, I've heavily editedthis list.
But there's this fantasticrestaurant called Trattoria della
Stempa.
And it is a small space.
It's a place that I stumbled across.
I was on a couple years inRome on a trip with my sister's family
and we were just looking, Ithink, I'm not sure if my memory
(11:10):
is right that it was rainingthis time.
It was raining when I wasthere because I went back.
But we were just looking for agreat little hole in the wall, out
of the way place.
And that's exactly what this is.
It's on a back lane.
It's not in Trasteveria.
It's in a, it's in a differentarea, not too far from the Spanish
steps.
But the chef there once, I'mnot sure if he still does, had a
(11:34):
Michelin star.
A very, very small space, kindof almost a windowless space.
They used to have a printingpress and that's why it's called
Trattoria della Stampa.
And they, when, when I, whenwe went a couple years ago, you could
still get a table.
We actually walked in, wesaid, know three or how many?
Five.
Five Please.
(11:54):
And got a table right away.
This time.
I went on a rainy Tuesday,just sort of discovering that it
was close to my hotel.
And people said, no, we bookedour reservations.
The lineup out the door.
People said, we booked ourreservations two weeks, a month,
two months, three months in advance.
Fortunately, it was a rainy Tuesday.
They had a couple cancellations.
I had to wait maybe half anhour to get in.
(12:17):
But they have.
If my rec.
If I have one recommendationon what to order, they have the three
Roman pastas, which arecarbonara, cacio, Pepe, and, and
I always say this one wrong aswell, amatriciana, which are the
three typical Roman pastas.
And you can order any one of them.
(12:39):
And I believe it's €12, andyou get this big steaming bowl of
beautiful pasta.
And it tastes like homemade.
And all the ingredients are local.
And the pasta was handmade.
And so that is a place.
And since going the firsttime, talking to the staff this time,
they said, actually the ideais taken off.
And there's like eight ofthese Trattoria della Stampa around
(13:01):
Italy now.
When I went the first time,this was the only one.
So.
So if you want, like, smallplace, tons of atmosphere, place
where Romans go and eat realRoman food for not that much money,
definitely put that one onyour list.
Yeah, that sounds incredible.
And I know they're a greatresource, a show.
Both me and you are big fansof Stanley Tucci's Italy.
(13:24):
He's done a few great episodes.
I mean, you talked about thatwe could do multiple episodes just
on the restaurants of Rome.
And he's done, I think, atleast two focusing in on different
neighborhoods and restaurants there.
And a great resource as well.
But when it comes to.
It comes to where to stay andwhere to base yourself in the city,
I've got to think from whatyou're describing, it sounds like
(13:45):
that's got to be a prettyimportant part of your stay, is really
figuring out the right part ofthe city to base yourself out of,
to be able to see some ofthose iconic attractions and get
a little bit more into thecharacter of the city.
What are a couple of your favorites?
I'm definitely going tomention I just stayed at a place
called Hotel Hassler that wason my most recent trip.
(14:06):
It's literally, if you.
If our listeners go in andthey Google, like Spanish Steps and
there's a picture of theSpanish Steps, there's a building
that's just on the right thatlooks like a hotel, and that is Hotel
Hassler, and it is right atthe top of the Spanish Steps.
From my room, from the windowin my room, I could look out the
(14:27):
window, see the Spanish Steps.
And then behind I could seethe dome of St.
Peter's in the Vatican withouteven moving my head.
I mean, two of the most iconicsites in Rome.
So really interesting hotel,family owned, run by two, by twins,
twin brother and sister.
Amazing location right at thetop of the Spanish Steps.
(14:49):
And it has that, it's, youknow, it's pure five star old world
luxury.
And you still see the ownersaround the hotel there.
You can go up and chat withthem about their family and their
life.
You know, in hotels.
They grew up in hotels andthen they have this rooftop restaurant
that I, I was up there forlunch, actually I went up for lunch
(15:12):
and then did go up in theevening once as well.
And again, Rome is at your feet.
So you, you've got theVatican, you've got The Knights of
St.
John, the Spanish Steps, thetypewriter, the Victor Emmanuel.
Over on the left, acrossyou've got the cannon.
They fire this cannon everyday at 12 o' clock.
So if you're up there at 12 o'clock, you can see them fire the
cannon.
And again, the food isactually good.
(15:32):
I had some wonderful,wonderful Roman pasta up there.
And so that's, that's also agreat place if you're not, even if
you're not staying there,that's a great place to eat, but
also, you know, wonderful andthat kind of old world service where
they remember your name, youknow, and how was your day?
And you say how was your day?
You know, like everybodyremembers when you, you, when you
(15:55):
come back at night.
So I love Hassler.
I'm going to mention a coupleothers just quickly that we've got.
I, so I stayed at the Edition,which is, you know, kind of really
super cool maybe, maybe alittle too cool for me, I don't know.
But it was really a goodhotel, great location.
The addition in Rome, I stayat the St.
(16:16):
Regis on a different trip.
Again, amazing suites androoms, that kind of old Roman feeling,
the history and also a great location.
And then one that's a littlebit different is the Waldorf Astoria,
which is a, which is also abeautiful property.
(16:38):
It's set apart, it's kind ofup on a hill and it almost has a
resort feel to it.
So it's kind of interestingthere because you can, you know,
again, Waldorf Astoria,beautiful rooms, but you can kind
of spend your day in the hurlyburly in the city visiting all the
sites and then kind of Go backout there, sit by the pool, have
(16:59):
a glass of champagne orwhatever, have dinner out there and
kind of feel like you're maybeoff on a, on a little island and
then, and then go back in.
In the day, you're not goingto be able to walk to a ton of shops
and restaurants.
But that was also a very, avery good hotel.
So those are, yeah, those area few of my favorites.
Awesome.
Amazing suggestions.
(17:19):
Any, any final, can't miss or,or any, any final tips for the city
as, as we wrap up our, ourfirst trip to Rome?
Yeah, so I would just say forthe camp Mrs.
Rome is the kind of citywhere, like, there's so much that
you don't know and the thingsyou don't know, you don't know, and
I didn't say that very well.
(17:42):
For treasure, you know, whereyou can find something that other
tourists don't know about.
And that might be theconcierge at your hotel or that might
be your tour guide with AccessItaly or that might be one of the
owners of the Hassler Hotel,which was the case for me, or it
just might be somebody workingin a shop who's lived their whole
life in Rome.
And one of these places that Ifound was called Basilica Santa Maria
(18:06):
del Popolo, and it is a smallchurch, it's on a busy square, only
open very limited hoursbecause it still operates as a church
and not a tourist attraction.
So people go there for Mass.
When I was there, people werecelebrating Mass, so keep a close
eye on the hours because itmight only be open two or three hours
(18:27):
a day, but in the artwork isabsolutely beautiful.
And then in one corner thereare two Caravaggios, two masterpieces.
If these were up in a galleryin New York or something, they would
be the featured pieces andpeople would travel from all over
the country to come and seethese pieces.
And in this chapel, they'rejust kind of in the corner, but absolutely
(18:52):
beautiful pieces.
One of the little quirks, andyou see this in other places in Italy,
is that to help fund themaintenance of the chapel and of
these works, you have to dropa two euro coin into a little machine
and then the lights come onand it gives you maybe like three
minutes of light and thelights go out and somebody else has
(19:14):
to put another two euros in tolight it up.
And so I would say have acouple coins in your pocket.
I didn't.
Fortunately, some peoplearound me did.
But you can go and you can,you know, there were maybe a dozen
people or less around me andjust appreciate these things, these
massive, masterful works ofCaravaggio in this chapel that nobody's
(19:36):
ever heard of.
So that's, that's my personalcamp mass, but there's a million
of those in Rome.
Amazing.
Well, you have done a lot ofthe heavy lifting here today, Tim,
so thank you for, for takingus through Rome.
And I know we're doing a bitof a, a tour of European capitals.
We did London last week, we'redoing Rome this week.
Next week we are off toPortugal to, to look at the capital
(20:01):
there at Lisbon.
And then following that, we'regoing of a special episode with Oliver
G.
From the Earful Tower, one ofmy favorite podcasts on Paris.
And I had a chance to sit downwith Oliver in Paris a couple months
ago and talk a little bitabout kind of a second trip to Paris
and some of the best things todo there.
So that's going to be comingin a few weeks as well.
(20:22):
But as always, super usefultask to hear from you.
So we would love to from allof our listeners if you've got any
suggestions on places aroundthe world that you want to see us
cover or questions to send in.
We got some great questionsfrom a listener last week on a trip
to the Galapagos island thatwe shared some ideas with them.
(20:43):
We always love to hear whereyou're going and any questions that
you might have and happy toshare some suggestions and also would
love if you check out ourother podcasts on the Voyage podcast
network@voyescape.com andlooking forward to catching up on
Lisbon next week, Tim.
Absolutely.
Always great to chat with you, David.
Thank you.
Foreign.
So we are back for our secondepisode this week, digging into things
to see and do on a first tripto Rome.
Tim has been there.
What were you saying?
Six, seven times now that you,you have traveled to Rome?
(00:32):
At least six or seven times,maybe more.
Yeah.
And when was the most recent?
Was just.
Was fairly recently.
You were, you were there,wasn't it?
Yeah, I was there within,within the month.
I was there about three daysat the end of a cruise about a month
ago.
So, yeah, a lot of.
Very fresh.
Yeah.
So I mean, one of the thingsthat we haven't had a chance to talk
about and I'm curious about isthat that kind of arrival experience
(00:52):
when you first get into Rome.
What, what that's like, how doyou get around the city?
Have they got Ubers?
Have they got Lyft?
Have they got.
What's public transportation like?
What's that arrival experiencelike as you get into the city at
any, any tips that peopleshould be thinking about when they,
when they first get in?
For sure, for sure.
One thing to be aware of isthat the, the, the main airport in
Rome is west of the city.
(01:13):
It's not one of these airports.
And we're going to be at somepoint talking about Lisbon.
Lisbon has an airport that islike, you could almost ride your
bicycle there.
You know, it's like so close.
That is not the case in Rome.
It is out of the city and soyou have to be prepared for a longish
drive in a taxi or an Uber orby taking the train is actually quite
(01:35):
a good option as well.
There's a good train link interms of getting around the city.
Public transit is good whereit's good.
And by that I mean there are,there are buses, there are, there's
a good metro system, but itjust doesn't go everywhere.
You know, the trams and allthat kind of stuff.
It just, I think when theywere building it, and this may be
(01:57):
slightly apocryphal, but Ithink it's true when they were building
it, they ended up running intoa lot of like underground ruins and
things like that that theycouldn't build through.
And so it's not a city likeParis or London where you can basically
get on the metro and goanywhere and you're there.
There are parts of the citythat can be a bit difficult to reach
(02:17):
by public transit.
So I would say, you know, haveyour Google Maps ready if you're
going to a place.
We're going to talk aboutTrastevere later, Trastaire later.
And that is a part of the cityis not well connected by public transit.
So.
So you're going to have tomaybe make some hard decisions on.
Okay, it's really worth the.
(02:38):
Oh, public transit, 20 minutes.
Great.
But, oh, is it worth 55minutes to.
And three changes on the busto get there?
Taxis are everywhere andthey're pretty good.
Uber, they, I believe the onlyUber that they have there.
And I might be wrong, but myexperience was that it's like an
Uber taxi.
So it's like, it's a me, it'sa taxi that you get through Uber.
(03:00):
So that's.
And it worked well for me.
I used it a number of times.
So the, the one bigrecommendation overall that I have
for Rome is in terms oftransportation is don't let it ruin
your day.
Like, don't, don't try so hardto get there on foot or on public
transit to save a few bucksthat you're going to show up sweaty
(03:22):
and hot and tired and frustrated.
Because that, that can happenvery easily.
I would say if you look at theUber and okay, it's a little more
than I want to pay for the Uber.
Pay for the Uber.
Do it.
Because when you get there,wherever you're going, if you're
going to the Coliseum, ifyou're going to, you know, whatever,
the Spanish Steps, TreviFountain, it's going to be busy and
(03:43):
there's going to be a lot ofpeople there.
And so I would say like, likeget there as, as, as quickly and
efficiently as possible and,and then worry about your future
Visa bill next month, youknow, so.
Yeah, that's always good advice.
Really?
Yeah, it is.
Anywhere in the world, really.
Right.
So.
And how, like, how long westand there, I mean, how many days
do you think you really needto, to immerse yourself in Rome?
(04:05):
And is there any time fromyour experience, it's kind of a bit
better to, to go to avoid someof the crush of crowds, but still,
still catch a lot of the bestof the city as well.
Yeah, for sure.
I was just there.
What are we now?
I was there middle of May, Iwould say.
And that was perfect becauseit was, it was warm without being
(04:26):
hot.
So, like, it was warm enoughthat you could.
I walked around with shorts onand, and, and felt perfectly comfortable.
Yes, it was busy.
I think Rome's gonna be busyno matter when you visit.
But the big summer crowdshadn't arrived yet.
And so I would say, like, Mayand September are probably really
good times to visit.
(04:47):
With the caveat that peopleshould always Check when the Italian
holidays are, because theItalians get, you know, a block of
two weeks of holidays andgenerally actually they get out of
the cities during the holidays.
So you'd think it's a good thing.
But, you know, but noteveryone gets out of the cities and
maybe people from the smalltowns come into the cities.
(05:07):
And so, you know, just keep aneye on that because that will have
an impact on room rates,that'll have an impact on, you know,
pretty much everything interms of crowdedness.
And, and so I would say.
But I would say, as with a lotof destinations, you're going to
get almost perfect weather,especially in the first half of May
and maybe the second half ofSeptember, and that those would be
(05:29):
the times that I would go.
I'm curious.
I mean, I've been to Italy acouple times during August and one
of the things that kind ofsurprised me a bit.
I mean, in North America,August is peak tourist time.
Peak tourist season.
Everything is up and runningand going.
I tended to find in Italy.
I mean, it's.
There's definite.
No shortage of tourists there then.
But a lot of the Italians are.
That's when they're takingsome time off.
(05:50):
That's.
They're.
They're heading off to moreremote places.
So a lot of businesses wereclosed down, a lot of restaurants
were closing early.
Is it the same in Rome or isRome just such a massive, you know,
global tourist destinationthat if you go there in August you're
still going to find, you know,everything still going full speed?
Honestly, I would say mostthings because it's Rome are going
(06:11):
to be open and operating.
I have run into similarexperiences in other places around
Italy and around the worldwhere that is the case.
I would say just that.
That is, that's a good point.
I think that's something to beaware of because if, you know, if,
oh, say you follow somebodywho does.
I'm just making it up.
Paper mache puppets on TikTokand they have a tiny little shop
(06:35):
in Rome.
Like if you go there, thepaper mache puppet lady, she might
be on vacation in the store.
It might be boarded up for the month.
Yeah, it might be.
Yeah, exactly.
You may not find her.
If it's like a pastarestaurant you really like and it's
like a normal pastarestaurant, it's probably going to
be open all through the summer.
But that's a good point.
(06:56):
That small boutique ishspecialty places.
Yeah.
You might find that they'reclosed down during those.
And so, yeah, just being awarebecause even transit schedules can
change during those months,months or those weeks when, when
Italians are taking their vacations.
So it's just a good, it's agood provision to make a good thing
(07:17):
to have in mind before yourvisit to plan for it.
Yeah.
Okay, so you talked a littlebit about.
Well, you've referenced this afew times.
A few areas of the city thatyou found great for food and Rome
is very much a foodie capital.
What are a couple of your favorites?
A few campuses when it comesto places to eat.
Travis Terry I think it'sTravis Dairy, but it is a former.
(07:37):
I believe the name meansbeyond the river.
It was a working class, bluecollar neighborhood.
And so the story I've heard isthat the laneways there, it's this
wonderful little labyrinth of laneways.
The laneways were so narrowbecause they didn't need to provide
enough room for horses andcarriages because anyone who went
(07:58):
there was going on footbecause they were walking to their
blue collar job and they werewalking home.
And so there was none of thewealth, none of the need for that
kind of transportation.
Anyway, what it's become todayis it's not blue collar, but it still
has this kind of bohemian feel.
And so many fantasticrestaurants and cafes.
(08:21):
It's got record shops.
It's the cool place to be in Rome.
The downside is that also hasmade it extremely popular.
It's been well covered inother places as well.
But I'd say even with thecrowds, I was there.
I went on a Friday night whenI was there a few weeks ago, tons
of people.
But the, but the good thing isthat it seemed to be, you know, 80,
(08:44):
90% Romans, local people.
And then, you know, thetourists are going to come as well.
But this is where the Romanswere going also on their Friday night
to grab a quick bite.
And I went to a pasta place.
I don't have it written downhere, but if you.
It's the most famous pasta in,in the neighborhood.
And it's one of these placeswhere no reservations, you just line
(09:05):
up.
And I got there early,fortunately early by Italian standards.
6, 6, 30.
And I was first in line.
So I still had to wait about20, 30 minutes.
But by the time I was seated,I think the line, you know, there
were probably, I don't know,20, 25, 30 people in line.
But just even if you're goingfor a drink, even if you're just
(09:27):
going for a little bit,Trastevere is really, really a fantastic
neighborhood in terms of myfavorite restaurant I want to talk
about.
And then I mean Rome, it'stough, I'm going to mention too quickly
because I mean Rome, we coulddo, you know, we could do a hundred
episodes on Roman food and wewould never finish.
(09:48):
Right.
I mean, there's just so manygreat restaurants.
So I'm, I've kind of heavilyedited my list.
But if you're into pizza, youknow, I don't first time visitors
will know Rome's notparticularly well known for its pizza.
They make pizza, it's Italy.
But Naples is the city reallyfor the pizza.
But there is, and I'm surethis is not the Italian pronunciation,
(10:09):
but it's 50.
I'm going to say it like aEnglish speaker that I am 50 Calo
de Ciro salvo.
That ciro might be a chiro andit's a Neapolitan style pizza.
So if you go to Italy lookingfor a pizza, this is probably the
place that you should go.
The New York Times named itone of the best pizzas in Italy.
(10:29):
I think it's the best pizza in Rome.
And I've been to Naples justfor the pizza a couple times and
I would say they've got allthose things, the buffalo mozzarella
and the beautiful tomato sauceand that light, light crust.
Everything that makes aNeapolitan pizza special, they've
got that there.
And I'm going to give one more recommendation.
(10:50):
As I said, I've heavily editedthis list.
But there's this fantasticrestaurant called Trattoria della
Stempa.
And it is a small space.
It's a place that I stumbled across.
I was on a couple years inRome on a trip with my sister's family
and we were just looking, Ithink, I'm not sure if my memory
(11:10):
is right that it was rainingthis time.
It was raining when I wasthere because I went back.
But we were just looking for agreat little hole in the wall, out
of the way place.
And that's exactly what this is.
It's on a back lane.
It's not in Trasteveria.
It's in a, it's in a differentarea, not too far from the Spanish
steps.
But the chef there once, I'mnot sure if he still does, had a
(11:34):
Michelin star.
A very, very small space, kindof almost a windowless space.
They used to have a printingpress and that's why it's called
Trattoria della Stampa.
And they, when, when I, whenwe went a couple years ago, you could
still get a table.
We actually walked in, wesaid, know three or how many?
Five.
Five Please.
(11:54):
And got a table right away.
This time.
I went on a rainy Tuesday,just sort of discovering that it
was close to my hotel.
And people said, no, we bookedour reservations.
The lineup out the door.
People said, we booked ourreservations two weeks, a month,
two months, three months in advance.
Fortunately, it was a rainy Tuesday.
They had a couple cancellations.
I had to wait maybe half anhour to get in.
(12:17):
But they have.
If my rec.
If I have one recommendationon what to order, they have the three
Roman pastas, which arecarbonara, cacio, Pepe, and, and
I always say this one wrong aswell, amatriciana, which are the
three typical Roman pastas.
And you can order any one of them.
(12:39):
And I believe it's €12, andyou get this big steaming bowl of
beautiful pasta.
And it tastes like homemade.
And all the ingredients are local.
And the pasta was handmade.
And so that is a place.
And since going the firsttime, talking to the staff this time,
they said, actually the ideais taken off.
And there's like eight ofthese Trattoria della Stampa around
(13:01):
Italy now.
When I went the first time,this was the only one.
So.
So if you want, like, smallplace, tons of atmosphere, place
where Romans go and eat realRoman food for not that much money,
definitely put that one onyour list.
Yeah, that sounds incredible.
And I know they're a greatresource, a show.
Both me and you are big fansof Stanley Tucci's Italy.
(13:24):
He's done a few great episodes.
I mean, you talked about thatwe could do multiple episodes just
on the restaurants of Rome.
And he's done, I think, atleast two focusing in on different
neighborhoods and restaurants there.
And a great resource as well.
But when it comes to.
It comes to where to stay andwhere to base yourself in the city,
I've got to think from whatyou're describing, it sounds like
(13:45):
that's got to be a prettyimportant part of your stay, is really
figuring out the right part ofthe city to base yourself out of,
to be able to see some ofthose iconic attractions and get
a little bit more into thecharacter of the city.
What are a couple of your favorites?
I'm definitely going tomention I just stayed at a place
called Hotel Hassler that wason my most recent trip.
(14:06):
It's literally, if you.
If our listeners go in andthey Google, like Spanish Steps and
there's a picture of theSpanish Steps, there's a building
that's just on the right thatlooks like a hotel, and that is Hotel
Hassler, and it is right atthe top of the Spanish Steps.
From my room, from the windowin my room, I could look out the
(14:27):
window, see the Spanish Steps.
And then behind I could seethe dome of St.
Peter's in the Vatican withouteven moving my head.
I mean, two of the most iconicsites in Rome.
So really interesting hotel,family owned, run by two, by twins,
twin brother and sister.
Amazing location right at thetop of the Spanish Steps.
(14:49):
And it has that, it's, youknow, it's pure five star old world
luxury.
And you still see the ownersaround the hotel there.
You can go up and chat withthem about their family and their
life.
You know, in hotels.
They grew up in hotels andthen they have this rooftop restaurant
that I, I was up there forlunch, actually I went up for lunch
(15:12):
and then did go up in theevening once as well.
And again, Rome is at your feet.
So you, you've got theVatican, you've got The Knights of
St.
John, the Spanish Steps, thetypewriter, the Victor Emmanuel.
Over on the left, acrossyou've got the cannon.
They fire this cannon everyday at 12 o' clock.
So if you're up there at 12 o'clock, you can see them fire the
cannon.
And again, the food isactually good.
(15:32):
I had some wonderful,wonderful Roman pasta up there.
And so that's, that's also agreat place if you're not, even if
you're not staying there,that's a great place to eat, but
also, you know, wonderful andthat kind of old world service where
they remember your name, youknow, and how was your day?
And you say how was your day?
You know, like everybodyremembers when you, you, when you
(15:55):
come back at night.
So I love Hassler.
I'm going to mention a coupleothers just quickly that we've got.
I, so I stayed at the Edition,which is, you know, kind of really
super cool maybe, maybe alittle too cool for me, I don't know.
But it was really a goodhotel, great location.
The addition in Rome, I stayat the St.
(16:16):
Regis on a different trip.
Again, amazing suites androoms, that kind of old Roman feeling,
the history and also a great location.
And then one that's a littlebit different is the Waldorf Astoria,
which is a, which is also abeautiful property.
(16:38):
It's set apart, it's kind ofup on a hill and it almost has a
resort feel to it.
So it's kind of interestingthere because you can, you know,
again, Waldorf Astoria,beautiful rooms, but you can kind
of spend your day in the hurlyburly in the city visiting all the
sites and then kind of Go backout there, sit by the pool, have
(16:59):
a glass of champagne orwhatever, have dinner out there and
kind of feel like you're maybeoff on a, on a little island and
then, and then go back in.
In the day, you're not goingto be able to walk to a ton of shops
and restaurants.
But that was also a very, avery good hotel.
So those are, yeah, those area few of my favorites.
Awesome.
Amazing suggestions.
(17:19):
Any, any final, can't miss or,or any, any final tips for the city
as, as we wrap up our, ourfirst trip to Rome?
Yeah, so I would just say forthe camp Mrs.
Rome is the kind of citywhere, like, there's so much that
you don't know and the thingsyou don't know, you don't know, and
I didn't say that very well.
(17:42):
For treasure, you know, whereyou can find something that other
tourists don't know about.
And that might be theconcierge at your hotel or that might
be your tour guide with AccessItaly or that might be one of the
owners of the Hassler Hotel,which was the case for me, or it
just might be somebody workingin a shop who's lived their whole
life in Rome.
And one of these places that Ifound was called Basilica Santa Maria
(18:06):
del Popolo, and it is a smallchurch, it's on a busy square, only
open very limited hoursbecause it still operates as a church
and not a tourist attraction.
So people go there for Mass.
When I was there, people werecelebrating Mass, so keep a close
eye on the hours because itmight only be open two or three hours
(18:27):
a day, but in the artwork isabsolutely beautiful.
And then in one corner thereare two Caravaggios, two masterpieces.
If these were up in a galleryin New York or something, they would
be the featured pieces andpeople would travel from all over
the country to come and seethese pieces.
And in this chapel, they'rejust kind of in the corner, but absolutely
(18:52):
beautiful pieces.
One of the little quirks, andyou see this in other places in Italy,
is that to help fund themaintenance of the chapel and of
these works, you have to dropa two euro coin into a little machine
and then the lights come onand it gives you maybe like three
minutes of light and thelights go out and somebody else has
(19:14):
to put another two euros in tolight it up.
And so I would say have acouple coins in your pocket.
I didn't.
Fortunately, some peoplearound me did.
But you can go and you can,you know, there were maybe a dozen
people or less around me andjust appreciate these things, these
massive, masterful works ofCaravaggio in this chapel that nobody's
(19:36):
ever heard of.
So that's, that's my personalcamp mass, but there's a million
of those in Rome.
Amazing.
Well, you have done a lot ofthe heavy lifting here today, Tim,
so thank you for, for takingus through Rome.
And I know we're doing a bitof a, a tour of European capitals.
We did London last week, we'redoing Rome this week.
Next week we are off toPortugal to, to look at the capital
(20:01):
there at Lisbon.
And then following that, we'regoing of a special episode with Oliver
G.
From the Earful Tower, one ofmy favorite podcasts on Paris.
And I had a chance to sit downwith Oliver in Paris a couple months
ago and talk a little bitabout kind of a second trip to Paris
and some of the best things todo there.
So that's going to be comingin a few weeks as well.
(20:22):
But as always, super usefultask to hear from you.
So we would love to from allof our listeners if you've got any
suggestions on places aroundthe world that you want to see us
cover or questions to send in.
We got some great questionsfrom a listener last week on a trip
to the Galapagos island thatwe shared some ideas with them.
(20:43):
We always love to hear whereyou're going and any questions that
you might have and happy toshare some suggestions and also would
love if you check out ourother podcasts on the Voyage podcast
network@voyescape.com andlooking forward to catching up on
Lisbon next week, Tim.
Absolutely.
Always great to chat with you, David.
Thank you.
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