November 26, 2025 • 59 mins
On this deeply meaningful episode of Truth Be Told, Tony Sweet sits down with Jessica Engelking, a descendant of the White Earth Band of Ojibwe and the Representation Director for the Great Plains Action Society. Together, they explore the powerful truths behind Indigenous history, generational trauma, land stewardship, cultural resilience, and the evolving meaning of “Truthgiving.”
Jessica provides an honest look at the realities of colonial violence, boarding schools, environmental destruction, and the ongoing fight for representation and sovereignty. She also shares the beauty of Indigenous spirituality, community resilience, and the reclaiming of culture, language, and ancestral traditions.
Tony reflects on his lifelong connection to nature, his respect for Indigenous wisdom, and the importance of acknowledging uncomfortable history so healing can begin. This is a conversation grounded in truth, compassion, and hope for future generations.
⚠️ Trigger Warning: This episode includes frank discussions about genocide, cultural suppression, racism, boarding schools, violence, substance abuse, homelessness, colonialism, and climate change. Listener discretion is advised.
#Ojibwe #IndigenousVoices #Truthgiving #NativeAmericanHistory #CulturalResilience #IndigenousSovereignty #HealingJourney #EnvironmentalJustice #Decolonize #GreatPlainsAction #JessicaEngelking #AncestralWisdom #NativeStories #TruthAndHealing #PodcastEpisode #TonySweet #IndigenousRights #NativeRepresentation #ClimateJustice #LandStewardship
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/truth-be-told-paranormal--3589860/support.
Jessica provides an honest look at the realities of colonial violence, boarding schools, environmental destruction, and the ongoing fight for representation and sovereignty. She also shares the beauty of Indigenous spirituality, community resilience, and the reclaiming of culture, language, and ancestral traditions.
Tony reflects on his lifelong connection to nature, his respect for Indigenous wisdom, and the importance of acknowledging uncomfortable history so healing can begin. This is a conversation grounded in truth, compassion, and hope for future generations.
⚠️ Trigger Warning: This episode includes frank discussions about genocide, cultural suppression, racism, boarding schools, violence, substance abuse, homelessness, colonialism, and climate change. Listener discretion is advised.
#Ojibwe #IndigenousVoices #Truthgiving #NativeAmericanHistory #CulturalResilience #IndigenousSovereignty #HealingJourney #EnvironmentalJustice #Decolonize #GreatPlainsAction #JessicaEngelking #AncestralWisdom #NativeStories #TruthAndHealing #PodcastEpisode #TonySweet #IndigenousRights #NativeRepresentation #ClimateJustice #LandStewardship
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/truth-be-told-paranormal--3589860/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
I thought today we might have a different perspective about Thanksgiving,
And today we're honored to welcome a truly powerful voice
in the Indigenous storytelling and cultural preservation Jessica Ingelking, a
descendant of the White Earth Band of Ojibweh. Jessica's work
shines a light on truth, history and the wisdom passed
down through generations. As an author, educator, and advocate for
(00:26):
Indigenous sovereignty, she helps refrain narratives that too often have
been overlooked, misunderstood, and erased. In this special Truth Giving episode,
we explore the deeper meaning behind the season, not as
a traditional holiday, but as a moment of truth, reflection,
and healing. Jessica will guide us into Ojibweh perspectives on gratitude, honesty,
(00:50):
and remembrance, and share how Indigenous communities are reclaiming their
own stories. We'll also talk about the ojibwe prophecy, the
ancestral teacher, warnings and vision that continue to shape identity, responsibility,
and a path forward for future generations. We'll get ready
for an enlightening conversation that bridges the past and the present,
(01:11):
challenges old narratives, and invites us all to a deeper understanding.
I'm Tony Sweet with Truth Be Told. Please welcome to
the Truth Be Told Studios for the first time, Jessica
Ingle King, Hi, Jessica.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Everyone.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Well, Jessica. First of all, thank you, thank you, thank
you for being here. I always love having someone that's
indigenous to America North America, and it's an honor to
have you here and to hear your perspective on truth giving.
So if you're ready to get started, I am to
(01:54):
do this for those people that really are unfamiliar with
a Jipway or any of the Native American tribes that
you represent, or that you want to describe the identity
or cultural worldview of the Native American people, because I
(02:15):
think a lot of people, which is still mind blowing
when you hear Native American, especially from the past, you
always think of them as savages or you know, brutal
and killers, and which now we know is not true.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
But there's still people out there that have that perspective.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Thank you, and I'm glad you're creating space to clear
up those misconceptions, you know in genous people. Well, you know,
we may have engaged in like skirmishes of you know, territory.
You know, we weren't genosicking each other by any means.
And so my organization, Great Clans Action Society, we're not
(03:01):
ano Jibwe organization. We're made up of people from many nations.
Our executive directors Creed. You know, we have being in
this area, some Dakota and people. But I do think
that one without you know, we don't want to be
pan indigenous, you know, we don't want to be like
all need to pay people believe this, but but there
(03:23):
is a shared sense of duty to land protection. So
of our initiatives are great plans. We we started as
an environmental organization and land defense is a huge part
of our work still. And then being a good relative,
you know, taking care of each other and and not
just you know within the tribe, but you know within
(03:46):
our neighborhoods and communities.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And so even though you're a descendant of the Jibwe,
what what tribe tribe that you would associate with the.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Most I'm only whiteter Ojibway.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So okay, okay, my.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Grandmother was essentially you know, entirely Ojibway. Wow, my mom's
path So that's.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Pretty, that's pretty to me.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Awesome to feel that history, that culture that is running
through your veins that I think a lot of people
to this day we hear about the you know, the
the pow wows and and I go to many of
them out here, and I just enjoy watching many of
(04:37):
these traditional dances and seeing the dress and stuff. But
to actually have that into your DNA just must make
you feel really proud of where you come from.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yes, I mean I certainly have a lot of honor
and respect for my ancestors, but you know, with that,
don't want to romanticize it too much. Comes a lot
of you know, genetic trauma of course, a lot of
you know, violence against us in this nation's history. So
there's you know a lot of a lot of hardship,
(05:15):
but also resilience. And I think you know, a lot
of you know, what's happening now is recognizing and appreciating
the resilience that we inherited, not just you know, the
bad stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Right, Well, how do you do that? How do you
separate the two to appreciate the heritage and the culture,
because there's a huge history and community and even a
responsibility on your generation and younger to continue this versus
(05:50):
the trauma that was placed on not just one tribe
but every tribal uh tribal people in America, in Canada.
I mean, there's so many different uh land masses that
(06:10):
they were they were not treated well. How do you
separate those two of creating a safe place for your
culture to continue versus keeping the trauma away so you
don't keep passing it on to your generation next generations,
(06:32):
because that must be hard.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, And the thing is, you don't separate the two,
you know, you approach everything as a whole. And I
think that's where you know, a lot of just humans
in general suffers that that trauma is pushed away or buried,
and then when that happens, it's it's not addressed. And
(06:57):
so really confronting it head on is key to working
through it and ensuring that you know, generations to follow
have it better than we do.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
And I think majority of anybody who you are, you
always want to try to pass a better lie for
better culture to your next generations. But the Native American
people definitely, I think, want to continue the culture itself.
Many non Native people learn about Ojibwe and even other
(07:35):
tribes through textbooks and stereotypes. What are some important misconceptions
you would like to correct that you still see today.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, that's a huge issue. In fact, my title with
our organization is representation director, and so my work primarily
focuses on addressing these mis misconceptions. Yeah, the the history
books were not written by us. They're written about us
in in a way that promotes a narrative that is
(08:13):
far from reality. One thing, it's funny. One thing that
I often find myself having to do, you know, at
the beginning of these talks, is just remind people that
we still exist. An alarming number of people think that
natives just don't exist anymore, that we like when extinct
(08:34):
with the dinosaurs or something. But now we're still here
and thriving and and living you know, beautiful, full contemporary lives,
and so, you know, showing that is a big part
of you know, a lot seeing is believing and so
so showing you know, what we're up to today and
(08:58):
you know that we're still here is a large part
of what we try to do with great Planes. And then,
you know, promoting a true and accurate history of the
United States goes a long way in you know, promoting
or of addressing you know, the stereotypes that have been
(09:19):
pushed and handed down throughout the years. So you know,
understanding the context in which you know, this nation was
born and expanded and has continued to grow, put into perspective,
you know, how how it is that you know, Indigenous
(09:39):
people are seen. I mean, I know there's like a
lot of stereotypes that we're all drunks or something. But like,
you know, I encourage people to like look into the
history of like whiskey rations. You know, we were you know,
just given whiskey, locked up on reservations, starved and given whiskey.
Like you know, the history of abuse and you know,
(10:03):
sexual abuse, especially in the boarding schools, that will make
people want to numb themselves. Yeah, and so you know,
if you if you see, you know, a drunk Native
on the street, you know, have some compassion because they
probably were you know, had horrible things happened to them
as a child.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
And yeah, I uh, living in Los Angeles area, we
see a lot of homeless people and you know a
lot of people look very negative towards them. And there's
I'm sure a lot of Native Americans that are on
the street. And yeah, there are some people that choose
(10:43):
to be there. You know, that's just because they don't
want to live a certain way, which is fine, whatever
they want, But there are a lot of people it's
trauma from families, from society that have been you know,
very harsh towards them, and it's hard to not seek
(11:05):
alcohol or drugs or something that.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Will numb their pain.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
What what do you what do you see especially in
the Native tribes, and that are the main reason the
people nowadays are could be leaning towards drugs or alcohol.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well, yeah, I mean, I just want to acknowledge that
homeless populations do tend to scue heavily Native and also
heavily veteran, and also veterans tend to scue heavily Native too.
We have like the you know, highest percentage of right
(11:57):
uh arms nervous enrollment of the demographics. But you know,
it's it's not just Indigenous people that are homeless, and
like that is something that we try to to talk
(12:17):
to people about, is understanding how you know, these these
epidemics that are harming people are themselves you know a
product of colonial violence. So a lot of times, you know,
things get framed in the that these are our fights
and that we're the only ones that are you know,
being harmed by ongoing colonial violence, and that's just not true. Like,
(12:41):
you know, if you're listening to this, your life is
worse off because of colonial violence. And so getting people
to you know, kind of understand that, you know, it's
not just hurting us, it's it's hurting everyone. But yeah,
a lot of the the turning to drugs and alcohol
(13:01):
is a you know factor of poverty. You know, manny
reservations just don't have resources, and with that comes a
sense of hopelessness, a feeling of shame or devaluation. So
when you talk about these stereotypes, like when you're on
(13:22):
the receiving end of them, you know, especially with children,
it's it's really hard not to internalize themselves. So you know,
trying to keep the drugs and alcohol off the reservation
while you know, empowering the youth is is important to
combatting these issues. But again, you know, understanding like the
(13:43):
history of you know, substance abuse and you know white violence.
You know, like you know, think about like when we
ship crack cocaine to the black communities, Like these things
have always been used to weak and those considered undesirable
(14:04):
and so you know, knowing the history there, I think
puts things kind of into perspective. You know, we weren't
you know, drunks before colonization, and that's you know, largely
again like alcohol was used to trick us into signing
treaties which were then broken anyway, but no understanding that
(14:25):
that context, I think, you know, can help see the
bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
I don't know if you've heard of Ernie Lapont, the
great grandson of Sitting Bull. I've interviewed him and I
had a festival about a two years on't Go Auperate,
and he came out and spoke at it, and I
really appreciate, appreciated him being very open about what you're
(14:52):
saying and also holding on to his great grandfather's legacy.
And because you know, when City Sitting Bowl was here,
like you said, he fought, he fought back as much
as he could. But you know, in long in the
(15:12):
long term, you know, we know what happened, and but
he still is really held on to his spirituality. How
has that spirituality helped you and Native people? I hate
to even say survive, but it kind of is a
(15:34):
survival skill as holding onto that spirituality. How how has
that helped you personally.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I mean personally, you know, the the ancestral connection to
the land, you know, carries with a you know, a
very profound sense of duty and responsibility, and you know,
the Ojo Boy and many others included. You know, think
(16:04):
of think of what we do now in terms of
how it will effect seven generations after us. So you know,
when we make decisions, you know, not just asking you know,
what benefits us today, but what's going to be best
for our future relatives. Yeah, and doing the work we do,
(16:26):
I feel like really is to the best of our ability, acting,
you know, for for the generations to come.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Now, those generations to come. As we know, even like me,
I grew up in a very small town in Kansas.
Many of my friends stayed stayed in my very small hometown,
but I moved on. I went on to a bigger city,
went to California. How do you see, because you're you're
(16:56):
very involved, but how are you seeing the younger people,
the younger generations. Are they holding onto this to the
the legacies and the culture or are you seeing it
slowly being lost?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Well, there's there's a lot of reclaiming going around in
a beautiful way. You know, it's it's important to remember that,
you know, practicing our religions was illegal until not that
long ago.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I'm not crazy. I just think that's the craziest thing.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, and so you know, we we couldn't do the
things we needed to be doing. Probably you know, we're
on the down low. But yeah, but you know, having
that concerted effort by the government to take our languages,
you know, now we have much more opportunities to get
(17:53):
those languages back. So I think there's a lot of
reclaiming wh was stolen.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, I it is so hard to even believe the
how the government of the United States and at the
time was all I'm sorry, I'm white, pure white, but
it was pretty much all white Caucasian people that did
(18:22):
the in Christian white people that did this to the
Native Americans. And it really is hard for me to
reconcile with that, to really understand why that was happened.
Because before we went on air, you talked about the
boarding schools, and you said it was okay that we
could talk about that because you said you were even
(18:44):
part of it. But your grandmother definitely was part of
that culture where they were pretty much beaten to forget
their language, forget their religion or not even not that,
but spirituality, their culture. Talking to your grandmother, how was that?
(19:06):
I hope you don't mind sharing that for people that
don't understand. That might make a difference to saying this
was definitely wrong.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
She didn't talk about it.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Oh she didn't at all.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
No, I mean, and that's not uncommon. I mean, if you,
if you can feel like your own families of those listening, like,
if you if you had relatives who went to.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
War, Yeah, they don't want to talk about, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
The traumas that they experienced. They just don't talk about it,
you know. So if you have uncles or grandfathers, you know,
who serve in Vietnam, like, they're not going to want
to trip down and tell you the stories sometimes because
you know, a lot of survival for them was you know,
shutting that out. So I never went to the boarding
(19:55):
school systems. But there were still systems active within my lifetime.
I think up until like the mid to late nineties
in Canada there were still working systems.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
That is unbelievable, I really is.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
In the nineties, and one thing that's happening now, the
big thing is the is the taking the bodies back.
So around these schools they're using the ground penetrating sonar
radar to find the bodies of the children lost there.
(20:35):
And so I think with with those children coming home,
it's incredibly difficult, but also like an opportunity for healing,
you know, to have them back. And so I mean, yeah,
I think, you know, it's not the America you're taught
in school, but you know in America that existed strip
(20:57):
babies from their home and oftentimes they were killed. There's
you know a lot of any kind of abuse of
violence you can think of happened. But so now we're
going around to these sites and well I'm not personally,
but you know, you know, the the finding the mass graves.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah, and that's.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Heartbreaking, but you know it's good that you know, these
babies are coming home.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I feel like I've always felt this way, like I
had a kinship towards Native Americans or just Native people,
indigenous people.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
I don't know. I don't maybe in the.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Past life I was part of a Native tribe somewhere,
I don't know. I just because the music, the culture,
the way nature, because I'm a huge nature person, that's
my meditation. That's where I find peace is through nature.
You know, rug a tree talked of animals. I just
(22:03):
I don't know what it is. That's just where I
feel more at home versus being around people. So I've
always had that from an early childhood. Even in Kansas.
In fact, where I'm from, there's a lot a lot
of places where native tribes were. In fact, I think
(22:25):
in ar Kansas City, Kansas, they found a pretty much
a city because most most of what we've learned that
you were just like a few hundred natives and tpees
and that was about it. Well, no, this, they said,
this had twenty thousand people in this location. And it's
(22:47):
hard to believe that we never heard that. We never
heard that there was a civilization before we even got here,
where they had a you know, a government. They had
so many different things that we actually took a lot
from when we wrote the Constitution, and many of the
(23:08):
things that we used in America history we took from
a lot of native tribes. Which how does that feel?
Knowing that, I mean, I can already say, which how
you feel? But that before we got here, before we
(23:30):
got here, you guys thrived. You really did you know
there was how many hundreds of millions of bison.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
That we pretty much destroyed.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
And people that will listen to this thing, they're like, no,
you didn't know. We wiped out Native Americans, we wiped
out the bison. We just pretty much raped the country
of its resources. And we're still doing it but just
in different ways. But how does that make you feel?
Does it just make you angry as hell to feel
(24:01):
that what happened and what could have been if we
did not and just work together?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, I mean I hope everyone you know, regardless of
Native or not, thinks about, you know, what not only
what could have been, but what could be now?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
But yeah, like with truth giving, you know, a lot
of what we do is you know, try to really
push for you know, an accurate understanding of the history
of this continent. And yeah, there were cities, so you
know that's not what you learn, you know, the the
(24:40):
narrative were fed just kind of like, oh, this was
just open space and there was like you know, smatterings
of savages and you know they all lived in tps
and but you know, we had immense cities, you know,
with aqueducts like European architecture. Architects were just you know
blown away. You know, well here we're here, like you know,
(25:04):
having big, beautiful, clean cities. You know, they were dumping
shit on each other, you know, in the streets. So
like that's this is not what you picture. You know,
even like you know, if you're driving across country, you know,
the interstates, you know, follow trade routes that existed for
you know, thousands of years. You know, there was there
(25:25):
was commerce, there was you know, art, there was culture,
there was there was so much. There was agriculture, so
I know a lot of you know, the idea of
indigenous people were that we weren't using the land, and
that's just entirely untrue. We just you know, did you know,
permaculture in a in a way that honestly best you know,
(25:49):
the abuse of the soil living living in Iowa. You
know a lot of people like on the on the
coast don't really think of Iowa much, but really we're
ground zero for like a big egg environmental destruction. I
(26:10):
was the most biologically altered place in the country. Yeah,
it used to have you know, the biodiversity of a rainforest,
and now it has a biodiversity of like barely a desert.
And we're also situated bordered by you know, the two
largest rivers, and especially the Mississippi. I was a number
one contributor to the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico.
(26:32):
So you know what farming looks like now is rooting
the soil. I mean, we used to have beautiful you know,
prairie with roots extending, you know, beat down, like holding
the soil in place. And you know, these crop rotations
of corn and soybean don't do much, you know, for
(26:54):
the soil, and then they spray them with shit and
then all that shit runs off into the water and
that all goes down into the Gulf of Mexico and
then you get these algae blooms, and yeah, what's what's
happening to the land is is you know, some very
real colonial violence that we're working to address, but that
(27:16):
you know, just doesn't harm need of people. That's harming
all of us. You know, I always got you know,
like the second fastest rising cancer rate or something or
so much cancer. And you know, they want to blame
that on drinking because that makes it personal responsibility thing,
But it's it's all the carcinogens were exposed to. The
(27:38):
water is not drinkable.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Really that bad filter?
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah wow, yeah, I h even where I'm from. They
they had to switch it because of there was too
much algae in the water. They had to switch it
to a different location to get water from. So, I
mean that's analogy. That's that definitely is from runoff from
(28:06):
oil and pesticides that they spray sprayed the crops in
the fields.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah, I did. I didn't know that about Iowa. I
I that's that's sad to hear. Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I want to talk about truth giving truth giving because
we touch on just for a second, you've spoken about
it and and as a path towards honesty and healing
because you know, I think sometimes the truth, like truth
be told, truth giving, it can set you free, it
can open up healing process. And how does this concept
(28:47):
reshape how we understand thanksgiving from your point of indigenous
point of perspective.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah. So, so we just recently held our ninth DAN
Truth Giving event. It's one of my favorite things that
we do as an organization. You know, the originally started
as as an effort to you know, combat the false
narrative of you know, the thanksgiving myth you know, this
(29:18):
idea that you know, everyone came together and we're friends
and it was all good after that. And you know,
if you look at the history of it, you know
understanding that it came in the immediate aftermath of massive
population devastation due to illnesses, smallpox being a lot of it.
(29:45):
So like we didn't I mean, we love our animal relatives,
but we weren't living with livestock the way that the
settlers were, and so there was a lot of immunity
there to disease is that we just did not have.
And so you know, when when people were showing up,
(30:08):
we just lost. And this lost large chunks of population
to illness, and that it kind of gets talked about
sometimes in history more I think as a way to
like be like, oh, we didn't try to god diseases. Oops,
you know nature, you know that was later weaponized. You know,
(30:28):
smallpox blankets were handed out. You know, it was you know, yeah,
what may not have been intentional, did you know, become
biological warfare. But you know, at that first Thanksgiving, you know,
some of the natives there, like you know, not that
long after, you know, found their their heads on spikes,
and so it wasn't the cute, peaceful, little welcome story
(30:51):
that ah we wanted to be, and so we kind
of started up trying to to just you know, counter
that narrative. But you know, you you can't just keep
doing that year after year after year. People are going
to be like, Okay, we heard this last year. And
so it's really as an event grown and become you know,
(31:12):
something beautiful where we we have the opportunity to share culture.
You know, we often have dancers or drummers or speakers,
and we often or we try to, uh to really
talk about what's going on, you know, in in the
world in terms of colonial violence now and what we
(31:33):
should be paying attention to. So over the years a
lot we've been talking with our talking about with our
Palestinian Palestinian relatives and giving them space to talk about,
you know, the colonial violence that they're colonial genocides we
real that they're experiencing right now. And this year we
had members from the free Fridge program in Iowa City, so,
(32:02):
you know, community bridges where you can leave something, take
something as you need it, you know, right now, keeping
our relatives fed, you know that that should really be
the heart of Thanksgiving. But it's very necessary in the
climate right now, especially, you know, to to make sure
people are able to feed themselves. So we had them
come and talk, and we had a representative from the
(32:25):
trans community who who spoke to you know, the issues
they're facing and and like you know, violence against you know,
our trans relatives is also a form of colonial violence.
I mean within many within many tribes what we would
(32:48):
now consider like LGBTQ plus people. You know, they weren't shunned,
they weren't they weren't ostracized, they weren't harmed, they weren't
legislated against. You know, they were valued for their unique contributions,
and in many cases considered you know, sacred and that
you know, having a a different way of being in
(33:10):
the world.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Gender, you know, not just sexuality, but gender norms, you know,
were seemingly forced to live under an American society. Those
those celves are you know, that's some colonial violence, you know, it.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Just I mean that to me, that's what God, you know, Universe,
whatever you, whoever you you worship, or whoever you look to.
That's the way I feel like this Earth was supposed
to be taking care of Mother Earth, taking care of
each other acceptance, feeding the hungry, feeding the poor, you know,
(33:58):
not taking excess. Like I said, it's nice to have
a nice home, it's nice to buy your cars, But
how much does one need is how much was does
one need to you know, to destroy Mother Nature? I
remember back in the eighties when even maybe late seventies,
(34:19):
early eighties, when the margarine you know, and butter where
it's not nice to fool with Mother Nature. I feel
like that's what we do constantly. We full with Mother Nature.
We full with other religions and other people's thoughts and
and believes And I just feel like eventually, if you
believe in karma, it will come back and bite you.
(34:44):
So I just feel like, maybe maybe we should start
taking some wisdom from our native people and indigenous people,
because you really had and have a lot of the
answers to how to how to treat the world and
(35:05):
how to treat each other.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
So yeah, so for for a lot of tribes, you know,
you know, the measure of a person, the esteem that
they're held in was you know, a product of what
they gave, you know, So it wasn't about having the most,
It was about providing the most and giving the most
and sharing the most with your community. And so it's
(35:27):
it's really, you know, the exact opposite of you know,
this wealth worship and wealth hoarding that's happening now. And
even like Christianity in this country has become incredibly warped,
Like Christian nationalism really bears no resemblance to like the
actual teachings of Christ and the Bible, and so you know,
(35:50):
at some point they made up the prosperity gospel to
kind of you know, how do we how do we
account for you know, the fact that we want to
to hoard on to and a mass all this wealth
with the fact that, like Jesus is saying, you know,
it's more difficult for Richard to get into heaven and
they're camels passed and I have a needle, and so
(36:10):
this is like, oh, well, God wants you to be rich,
and it's like that's not that's not it, you know,
this is it's yeah, I don't think people bully well,
it's big. Numbers are really hard, but like Bather, I mean,
what hundreds of billions of dollars trillions now looks like
(36:34):
it's it's hard for the brain to do that. Like
it's you know, used to.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Be a billion. Now a billion.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
It's a lot, But it used to be when ilage
a million was a lot. Now a million you're like, okay,
it's nice, but a billion. And but now somebody that
might be a trillionaire. Yeah, that is just unfathomable.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
It's yeah, it's it's truly disgusting, it really is.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, I want to I want to talk about how
Native especially the people that you're around, connect to the land.
How does this loss of protection of land and influence
effect not only us personally but as humanity.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
I mean, Indigenous stewardship of land is so important, you
know for the world. If we look at you know,
where biodiversity exists on this planet, it's it's some places
of indigenous stewardship. And you know, in this country, land
has become commodified. It's it's something you buy, and so
(37:55):
you know, when you've historically been kind of kept out
of that you know, wealth securing system, it's hard to
get land. I will say one thing that as an
organization we're really excited about is after you know, like
a decade or so, saving, we're finally able to purchase
some land in Iowa City to to create the spaces,
you know, to do the work that you know we've
(38:17):
been doing, to provide community, to provide healing, to grow gardens,
you know, for the community. It's some soular going, you know,
all the good things. But yeah, I do encourage like
everyone you know listening, to spend time in nature. One.
It's really good for your health, you know, just being
out there, do some green bathing, lower the colors. All
(38:40):
it's good for you. But it also makes you appreciate
what we stand to lose.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
I can attest that. I, like I told you earlier,
I nature is where I heal, and nature is where
I talk to God or universe, whatever you want to say.
I just feel my connection there. I I love it
now that I moved a little bit further out from
the city and I live close to Big Bear Mountain,
so I go to the waterfalls, I go up into
(39:09):
nature and I just walk listen to not nature sounds,
and it just I'm like, if I go to right now,
I'm happy because that's the way. That's the way it
feels to me. And personally or even tribally. How can
(39:30):
you share for people on how to heal healing practices
and you just said, go to nature, but personally and
as community, they can play a role in restoring balance
that prophecy often points towards. Can you can you talk
(39:53):
about that a little bit?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah, so, you know, in the question you sent, you know,
you did ask about like the seven Fire's prophecy and
whatever it actually kind of has been thinking has been
something I've been thinking about just especially in this past year.
And this is just me speaking, you know, personally as
an individual, but I I did kind of reach a
(40:20):
point where I feel like it's it's too late kind
of about the prophecy. There's always a psych you know, choose,
you know, like where it's something that can still be
you know, we can there's a chance to you know,
get on the right path and then do things in
a good way. But you know, if you look at
(40:40):
the science, you know, if you there are a lot
of depressed climate scientists, colleges, anyone dealing with the natural world.
Just realizing that, you know, a lot of last chances
are gone and there's a lot of it's too late
(41:04):
for a lot of things. But that just means that
the work we do to build community is even that
much more important because you know, where we might not
be able to to stop you know, the environmental destruction
that's that we've set in motion. We can work to
you know, protect our communities and keep each other safe. Yeah,
(41:27):
and so for people, you know, get to know your
neighbors because those are the feel when shit goes down.
They're the people closest to you. And so so build relationships.
You know, you know, if you've got someone needs to
help help them. You know, if you have skills, you know,
share your skills, teach your skills. You grow a garden,
(41:48):
share your food, you know, teach your neighbors how to
grow some food. Be in community because especially when when
you have that connection, you know, I mean, that's why
that's why churches are so popular in a lot of ways.
This is you know, not just you know, the yeah,
the beliefs, but the coming together and that feeling you
(42:10):
get when you come together. You know, if church isn't
your thing, go to a concert, like you know, and
you know, you have that moment in the you know,
where you're like in the pit or whatever and you
feel it and you feel you know, like you like
kind of moving as one and you're a part of
something you know, bigger than yourself. You know, experience that.
(42:31):
You know, you hear a lot of like joy being
a form of resistance. It is, and that's important. Don't
let it be your only form of resistance. It can't
be the only thing, but it's necessary. And so you know,
on a personal level, you know, experience moments of joy
aage day. You know, take take pause. You know, if
(42:52):
you see something and just wonder in it, Drink as
much water as you can. It's ilo filter it, right,
you know, take care of yourself and take care of
each other. That's really I know what it comes down to.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
I always say with the people that think that the
climate change is doesn't exist, but if there was a
I just watched a Deep Impact the movie where a
comet was heading towards the Earth. If you denied it,
and we know that comets and asteroids have hit the
(43:30):
Earth many times since the beginning of this earth itself.
If we know two years in advance, five years in advance,
that it's going to be a direct hit, we're going
to do everything possible to build something a rocket, missiles,
somebody to go up and try to deflect it.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
To blow it up.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Well, there is a there is a climate comet heading
towards us that we need to do something about. Believe
it or not, something's changed. Something's changing. I know it's
people like, well, it's knowing, So it's not it's not
global warming.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Well did you ever watch don't look up?
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Yes I did. That's a great as.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
You're talking about that, That's what I was thinking about.
And that's kind of what it's going to be. And
you know, like the climate commet kind of has already
hit it this year. And you know, the ultra wealthy
are always going to have their bunkers and their ways
of self preservation. And and for those of us who don't,
what it's going to take is community is coming together
(44:44):
to figure out how to keep each other something. They're
not going to keep us safe. We need to keep
us safe.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, you know, I hate to say it this way,
but I'll be fifty six in two weeks, thank you,
Thank you. I don't know if the overall effect is
going to affect me personally. It probably will start to
beginning at least in my time on this earth, but
(45:10):
my great nieces and nephews, their children are definitely going
to be the ones that.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
Not benefit.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
But I have to deal with the issues that we
keep causing. And I remember this when I was a
personal training years ago. He was in his seventies, and
I said, you know about the future of our plan.
He goes, am I going to be alive? I said,
probably not. He said, well then I don't care. I'm like,
(45:38):
that's the mindset. I think of a lot of people they.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Don't the opposite generation, right.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
And I just think we need to think about the
people to follow us, because I want a better.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I mean, it's changing now. Like you grew up in Kansas,
Like you remember when winter started.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Oh yeah, No, in the seventies, we used to get
snow all the time. Now it's cold and icy, hardly
ever snows.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
And the summers are getting rough too. I was reading
something about like summer sad, you know, like this is
no effective but like, yeah, like all the smoke from
the fires, well, well the fires themselves are deadly, but like,
you know, I spend a lot of time not being
able to go outside because of like breathing issues. And
that's like coming down from Canada. Yeah, and yeah, the
(46:26):
stint it's not the same. You know, every every winter
I have the sad little twinge of like sless snow.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
You know right, you know it's and like I said,
you can't deny there is a change. I don't care
what you believe there has been a change. I can't
believe that our time is flying by and we're almost
out of time. But what does it mean to you
personally to carry on your ancestors stories, their teachings, they're
even their prophecies in today's world?
Speaker 3 (46:57):
How does that? How do you feel about that?
Speaker 1 (47:01):
How do you try to preserve that not only in
your world, but trying to extend it out to other
others outside of your tribe and your area that you live.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
I mean, I I feel incredibly lucky to be in
the position that I am. You know, rates of Native
high school graduation are not great. You know, the number
of Natives with bachelor's degrees isn't you know that high?
(47:34):
And wow, you know I was fortunate enough to be
able to like, you know, go to graduate school and
get my master's and then you know too, to meet
you know, similar minded you know friends and cohorts, and
two to find a position working where I can do
(47:54):
stuff like you know, talk about representation with people you
know for for a living and you know, that there's
so much luck involved in that. Like, I'm very lucky that,
you know, I had parents who worked really hard to
you know, break away from a lot of the generational violence.
(48:14):
You know, I'm lucky that, you know, I had the
educational opportunities that I did, and so you know, a
part of that luck comes like, well, now I need
to like pay it forward and do what I can
to to make others' lives better. And you know, in
the ways that I had these opportunities. Yeah, sometimes it
(48:38):
feels heavy and it's and it's hard too, because even
when you get into these positions, there's there's always some
kind of level of almost survivors guilt, right where it's like,
why was I able to make it here? Not that special?
But like you know, I think creator things worked out
for me in a lot of ways.
Speaker 4 (49:01):
Yeah, it's yeah, there's I think there's a profundity there
that you know, right, I feel lucky too to even
have the chance to try to do these things.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Yeah, I appreciate that, and I appreciate what you do
and even what I do in my podcast. You know,
like I said, I've talked to pretty much everybody you
can think of.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
With you know, conspiracy to.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
UFOs, to all kinds of different uh parts of the
paranormal world. But also I you know, I've being in
the background, or not background, being in the forefront talking
to people. You get to learn a lot of things
that sometimes you wish you didn't know. And there's a
(49:53):
lot of things that I'm glad I do know, and
things that you're sharing today. I kind of knew, but
some of the stuff I did not know. And I
appreciate you sharing the knowledge that you've given us. And
and I know a lot of people maybe want to
reach out to you, uh through Great Planes Action. Can
(50:14):
you can you tell it again what Great Planes Action
does and how people might want to be involved in
the organization.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Yeah, Great Planes Action Society or an indigenous nonprofit serving
the Great Planes region, UH doing a variety of work
to combat colonial violence. Please reach out to me. It's
Great Planesaction dot org my uh my web my address
is on the website. And you know, if you uh
(50:45):
subscribe to our newsletter, you'll you'll hear what's going on.
Be you know, tuned into opportunities before I go. As
I was thinking about this, I was feeling bad because
I didn't have like the most you know, spooky or supernatural.
You know, to say, but I was gonna put in
a couple of plugs for some positive Indigenous representations.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Please do, please do.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
I love I love the show Resident Alien. It's over.
Speaker 4 (51:11):
Now.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Have you watched that one?
Speaker 3 (51:14):
You know, I have not. I've seen it.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
I'm going to watch it, but I have not seen it.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
It is a great show, and it's like the most
low key, like native coded show. I mean they're like
explicitly like Reservation Dogs or Recordford Balls like native shows.
But you know, Resident Alien is is it's native.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
Just love it.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
People might not realize that, but there's one of my
favorite parts. You know, within a lot of Native cultures,
we have stories of sky people.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Yes, you know, I was going to say, you're going
to have to come back talk to me about that,
but please share it.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
Yes, star people. Yeah, a lot of you know, a
lot of tribes have their own stories of you know,
their interactions with star people. But I just thought it
was funny because you know, in Resident Alien, you know
there's an alien, you know, in your reservations. I'm interacting
with the tribes, and it's just so funny that every time,
like you know, a tribal member finds out that there's
(52:09):
an alien, They're like, oh yeah, just like totally unfazed,
where other people be like I don't believe in aliens?
What No, They're like, oh yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Why is it sometimes though, Native people don't want to
share those stories? Because I remember going to the Navajo
Nation and went to the museum in Arizona, and this
the curate curator for the museum told me. She goes,
oh yeah, when I was a little girl at my
grandma's we used to see this saucer ufo. We can
(52:43):
actually see little aliens inside. And I said, oh my gosh,
will you come on my show? And she goes, oh no, no, no, no,
I don't want to. Why is it sometimes Native people
don't want to share those stories.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
Some things are sacred, you know that they belong to
the people. You know, some you know, we don't want
distorted through some tribes. There are certain times of year
where you can share certain stories, and you know, certain
stories that you only share within the tribe. Another plug
I was going to put in is the new season
of it Welcome to Darry. Yeah, you does tend to
(53:24):
be like Big Stephen King's fans. But in there there's
some some some tribals stuff And the most recent episode
had some really interesting stuff about storytelling, which I was
really excited to see and I think it did a
great job of getting at you know, the importance of
oral storytelling and keeping those stories, you know, within the person.
(53:52):
Can you write something down and can get lost, right,
But you know, if it's something your children grew up
knowing and memorizing, you know it's going to stay with them.
Then you know, not to give too much away about
the episode, But like, unless you have the shining, someone
can't really break into your head, right, how.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
Do you feel about because people like me, this white
boy that is really in love with the Native culture? Well,
how do you feel about that? Do you take offense
when people like myself ask questions and really are really
interested in learning about you know, the culture, the history.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
Do you do you?
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Are you taken back by it? Or are you happy
to share the information?
Speaker 2 (54:42):
You know, when it's coming from a place of sincere
you know, wanting to know, of curiosity, that's great. It
only becomes problematic when people come in with a romanticized
notion that they want you to you know, kind of
reaffirm got it, got it? So, I mean, if you're
(55:02):
open to hearing, you know, things that might not align
with what you you know, I had preconceived notions about
if you're open to hearing things that you know you
might not want to hear, you know, darker histories, true histories,
that's okay, you know. So you know, coming into it
(55:25):
wanting you know, genuine dialogue and understanding is great, you know,
coming into it wanting you know, some little native you know,
mystical that's not benefiting anyone really.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
And now I appreciate that. And I know there's some
people that might listen to this podcast and be offended
by it, but it's not about being offended. It's about
really just knowing the truth of the history, because being
offended by the truth, honestly, is not doing anybody any
good at all.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
And it doesn't make it any less true, you know.
Speaker 3 (56:04):
And yeah, and we.
Speaker 2 (56:06):
Don't want to I don't want to get two down
on people for not knowing the truth like that. That's
not accidental, that's you know, it's a very pursposeful, you know,
constructed narrative that you know, we've been fed and you know,
it's it's hard to think about, you know, all the
(56:27):
things that you're taught up, you know, brought up to
believe being false. Right, But you know, instead of getting
mad about that, just get more and more educated. You know,
you know, not wanting something to be true doesn't make
it not.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
True, no matter how you can weave in and out
of falsehoods or like you said, romanticizing things.
Speaker 3 (56:53):
It's yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
And I also think people tend to think that there's
this sort of anachronistic blame, like wherein they should feel
guilty for what happened before them, before they were alive,
And it's like that's dumb, right, holding you personally accountable.
(57:15):
But it's about knowing, you know, like the full context
of the world that you exist in right now and
what you can be doing.
Speaker 3 (57:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
Now, that's like saying that having an amazing mother but
having a terrible father both are true. But you know,
you can feel shame in how they act, but it's
not your responsibility to change who they are, but you
(57:45):
can change yourself on the perspective on treating other people better.
And I think, like you said, knowing the truth can
sometimes put a perspective in your mind that I can
do better in this world. I can give back more,
I can love more. I can be less judgmental, you know,
(58:06):
more understanding. So we have to You can't deny that
Native people, Indigenous people that were here thousands of years before.
Speaker 3 (58:17):
We even arrived.
Speaker 1 (58:18):
So we need to give that respect and and and
I appreciate you. I respect you and respect everything that
you guys do with your organization.
Speaker 2 (58:31):
Thank you. And I hope people check out our website.
There's a lot of good information there and there's a
lot of beautiful artwork there. We have the free art
page the people can download and print on the beautiful
artwork that we have. And we're on social media. We
do a lot on Instagram, Facebook. Don't remember what we
(58:52):
are on Blue Scott.
Speaker 3 (58:55):
I'm not even on Blue Sky.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
I tried it, and I am like, I can't do
another one. So well, Jessica, thank you so much for
being here, happy, truth giving, and we really appreciate you.
Please come back.
Speaker 3 (59:10):
I'm sure we have.
Speaker 1 (59:11):
Tons of more to talk about because sky people and
all kinds of different prophecies. Maybe we can dive deeper
next time.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
So yeah, and I hope everyone you know enjoys their
time with their family and friends, and you know, just
gratitude for the feasts that they're gonna partake in, don't I'm.
Speaker 3 (59:30):
Gonna eat a lot.
Speaker 1 (59:34):
They'll call me fat Tony afterwards. So all right, thank
you Jessica, and thank you everybody for tuning in. We
really appreciate you. Jessica, Thank you again and all that
you do, and have a great Thanksgiving. I'll be here
next Friday as always, but until then, take care of
yourself and each other.
Speaker 3 (59:54):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
Thanks
I thought today we might have a different perspective about Thanksgiving,
And today we're honored to welcome a truly powerful voice
in the Indigenous storytelling and cultural preservation Jessica Ingelking, a
descendant of the White Earth Band of Ojibweh. Jessica's work
shines a light on truth, history and the wisdom passed
down through generations. As an author, educator, and advocate for
(00:26):
Indigenous sovereignty, she helps refrain narratives that too often have
been overlooked, misunderstood, and erased. In this special Truth Giving episode,
we explore the deeper meaning behind the season, not as
a traditional holiday, but as a moment of truth, reflection,
and healing. Jessica will guide us into Ojibweh perspectives on gratitude, honesty,
(00:50):
and remembrance, and share how Indigenous communities are reclaiming their
own stories. We'll also talk about the ojibwe prophecy, the
ancestral teacher, warnings and vision that continue to shape identity, responsibility,
and a path forward for future generations. We'll get ready
for an enlightening conversation that bridges the past and the present,
(01:11):
challenges old narratives, and invites us all to a deeper understanding.
I'm Tony Sweet with Truth Be Told. Please welcome to
the Truth Be Told Studios for the first time, Jessica
Ingle King, Hi, Jessica.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Everyone.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Well, Jessica. First of all, thank you, thank you, thank
you for being here. I always love having someone that's
indigenous to America North America, and it's an honor to
have you here and to hear your perspective on truth giving.
So if you're ready to get started, I am to
(01:54):
do this for those people that really are unfamiliar with
a Jipway or any of the Native American tribes that
you represent, or that you want to describe the identity
or cultural worldview of the Native American people, because I
(02:15):
think a lot of people, which is still mind blowing
when you hear Native American, especially from the past, you
always think of them as savages or you know, brutal
and killers, and which now we know is not true.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
But there's still people out there that have that perspective.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Thank you, and I'm glad you're creating space to clear
up those misconceptions, you know in genous people. Well, you know,
we may have engaged in like skirmishes of you know, territory.
You know, we weren't genosicking each other by any means.
And so my organization, Great Clans Action Society, we're not
(03:01):
ano Jibwe organization. We're made up of people from many nations.
Our executive directors Creed. You know, we have being in
this area, some Dakota and people. But I do think
that one without you know, we don't want to be
pan indigenous, you know, we don't want to be like
all need to pay people believe this, but but there
(03:23):
is a shared sense of duty to land protection. So
of our initiatives are great plans. We we started as
an environmental organization and land defense is a huge part
of our work still. And then being a good relative,
you know, taking care of each other and and not
just you know within the tribe, but you know within
(03:46):
our neighborhoods and communities.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
And so even though you're a descendant of the Jibwe,
what what tribe tribe that you would associate with the.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Most I'm only whiteter Ojibway.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So okay, okay, my.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Grandmother was essentially you know, entirely Ojibway. Wow, my mom's
path So that's.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Pretty, that's pretty to me.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Awesome to feel that history, that culture that is running
through your veins that I think a lot of people
to this day we hear about the you know, the
the pow wows and and I go to many of
them out here, and I just enjoy watching many of
(04:37):
these traditional dances and seeing the dress and stuff. But
to actually have that into your DNA just must make
you feel really proud of where you come from.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yes, I mean I certainly have a lot of honor
and respect for my ancestors, but you know, with that,
don't want to romanticize it too much. Comes a lot
of you know, genetic trauma of course, a lot of
you know, violence against us in this nation's history. So
there's you know a lot of a lot of hardship,
(05:15):
but also resilience. And I think you know, a lot
of you know, what's happening now is recognizing and appreciating
the resilience that we inherited, not just you know, the
bad stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Right, Well, how do you do that? How do you
separate the two to appreciate the heritage and the culture,
because there's a huge history and community and even a
responsibility on your generation and younger to continue this versus
(05:50):
the trauma that was placed on not just one tribe
but every tribal uh tribal people in America, in Canada.
I mean, there's so many different uh land masses that
(06:10):
they were they were not treated well. How do you
separate those two of creating a safe place for your
culture to continue versus keeping the trauma away so you
don't keep passing it on to your generation next generations,
(06:32):
because that must be hard.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Yeah, And the thing is, you don't separate the two,
you know, you approach everything as a whole. And I
think that's where you know, a lot of just humans
in general suffers that that trauma is pushed away or buried,
and then when that happens, it's it's not addressed. And
(06:57):
so really confronting it head on is key to working
through it and ensuring that you know, generations to follow
have it better than we do.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
And I think majority of anybody who you are, you
always want to try to pass a better lie for
better culture to your next generations. But the Native American
people definitely, I think, want to continue the culture itself.
Many non Native people learn about Ojibwe and even other
(07:35):
tribes through textbooks and stereotypes. What are some important misconceptions
you would like to correct that you still see today.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, that's a huge issue. In fact, my title with
our organization is representation director, and so my work primarily
focuses on addressing these mis misconceptions. Yeah, the the history
books were not written by us. They're written about us
in in a way that promotes a narrative that is
(08:13):
far from reality. One thing, it's funny. One thing that
I often find myself having to do, you know, at
the beginning of these talks, is just remind people that
we still exist. An alarming number of people think that
natives just don't exist anymore, that we like when extinct
(08:34):
with the dinosaurs or something. But now we're still here
and thriving and and living you know, beautiful, full contemporary lives,
and so, you know, showing that is a big part
of you know, a lot seeing is believing and so
so showing you know, what we're up to today and
(08:58):
you know that we're still here is a large part
of what we try to do with great Planes. And then,
you know, promoting a true and accurate history of the
United States goes a long way in you know, promoting
or of addressing you know, the stereotypes that have been
(09:19):
pushed and handed down throughout the years. So you know,
understanding the context in which you know, this nation was
born and expanded and has continued to grow, put into perspective,
you know, how how it is that you know, Indigenous
(09:39):
people are seen. I mean, I know there's like a
lot of stereotypes that we're all drunks or something. But like,
you know, I encourage people to like look into the
history of like whiskey rations. You know, we were you know,
just given whiskey, locked up on reservations, starved and given whiskey.
Like you know, the history of abuse and you know,
(10:03):
sexual abuse, especially in the boarding schools, that will make
people want to numb themselves. Yeah, and so you know,
if you if you see, you know, a drunk Native
on the street, you know, have some compassion because they
probably were you know, had horrible things happened to them
as a child.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
And yeah, I uh, living in Los Angeles area, we
see a lot of homeless people and you know a
lot of people look very negative towards them. And there's
I'm sure a lot of Native Americans that are on
the street. And yeah, there are some people that choose
(10:43):
to be there. You know, that's just because they don't
want to live a certain way, which is fine, whatever
they want, But there are a lot of people it's
trauma from families, from society that have been you know,
very harsh towards them, and it's hard to not seek
(11:05):
alcohol or drugs or something that.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Will numb their pain.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
What what do you what do you see especially in
the Native tribes, and that are the main reason the
people nowadays are could be leaning towards drugs or alcohol.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well, yeah, I mean, I just want to acknowledge that
homeless populations do tend to scue heavily Native and also
heavily veteran, and also veterans tend to scue heavily Native too.
We have like the you know, highest percentage of right
(11:57):
uh arms nervous enrollment of the demographics. But you know,
it's it's not just Indigenous people that are homeless, and
like that is something that we try to to talk
(12:17):
to people about, is understanding how you know, these these
epidemics that are harming people are themselves you know a
product of colonial violence. So a lot of times, you know,
things get framed in the that these are our fights
and that we're the only ones that are you know,
being harmed by ongoing colonial violence, and that's just not true. Like,
(12:41):
you know, if you're listening to this, your life is
worse off because of colonial violence. And so getting people
to you know, kind of understand that, you know, it's
not just hurting us, it's it's hurting everyone. But yeah,
a lot of the the turning to drugs and alcohol
(13:01):
is a you know factor of poverty. You know, manny
reservations just don't have resources, and with that comes a
sense of hopelessness, a feeling of shame or devaluation. So
when you talk about these stereotypes, like when you're on
(13:22):
the receiving end of them, you know, especially with children,
it's it's really hard not to internalize themselves. So you know,
trying to keep the drugs and alcohol off the reservation
while you know, empowering the youth is is important to
combatting these issues. But again, you know, understanding like the
(13:43):
history of you know, substance abuse and you know white violence.
You know, like you know, think about like when we
ship crack cocaine to the black communities, Like these things
have always been used to weak and those considered undesirable
(14:04):
and so you know, knowing the history there, I think
puts things kind of into perspective. You know, we weren't
you know, drunks before colonization, and that's you know, largely
again like alcohol was used to trick us into signing
treaties which were then broken anyway, but no understanding that
(14:25):
that context, I think, you know, can help see the
bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
I don't know if you've heard of Ernie Lapont, the
great grandson of Sitting Bull. I've interviewed him and I
had a festival about a two years on't Go Auperate,
and he came out and spoke at it, and I
really appreciate, appreciated him being very open about what you're
(14:52):
saying and also holding on to his great grandfather's legacy.
And because you know, when City Sitting Bowl was here,
like you said, he fought, he fought back as much
as he could. But you know, in long in the
(15:12):
long term, you know, we know what happened, and but
he still is really held on to his spirituality. How
has that spirituality helped you and Native people? I hate
to even say survive, but it kind of is a
(15:34):
survival skill as holding onto that spirituality. How how has
that helped you personally.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I mean personally, you know, the the ancestral connection to
the land, you know, carries with a you know, a
very profound sense of duty and responsibility, and you know,
the Ojo Boy and many others included. You know, think
(16:04):
of think of what we do now in terms of
how it will effect seven generations after us. So you know,
when we make decisions, you know, not just asking you know,
what benefits us today, but what's going to be best
for our future relatives. Yeah, and doing the work we do,
(16:26):
I feel like really is to the best of our ability, acting,
you know, for for the generations to come.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Now, those generations to come. As we know, even like me,
I grew up in a very small town in Kansas.
Many of my friends stayed stayed in my very small hometown,
but I moved on. I went on to a bigger city,
went to California. How do you see, because you're you're
(16:56):
very involved, but how are you seeing the younger people,
the younger generations. Are they holding onto this to the
the legacies and the culture or are you seeing it
slowly being lost?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Well, there's there's a lot of reclaiming going around in
a beautiful way. You know, it's it's important to remember that,
you know, practicing our religions was illegal until not that
long ago.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
I'm not crazy. I just think that's the craziest thing.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, and so you know, we we couldn't do the
things we needed to be doing. Probably you know, we're
on the down low. But yeah, but you know, having
that concerted effort by the government to take our languages,
you know, now we have much more opportunities to get
(17:53):
those languages back. So I think there's a lot of
reclaiming wh was stolen.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, I it is so hard to even believe the
how the government of the United States and at the
time was all I'm sorry, I'm white, pure white, but
it was pretty much all white Caucasian people that did
(18:22):
the in Christian white people that did this to the
Native Americans. And it really is hard for me to
reconcile with that, to really understand why that was happened.
Because before we went on air, you talked about the
boarding schools, and you said it was okay that we
could talk about that because you said you were even
(18:44):
part of it. But your grandmother definitely was part of
that culture where they were pretty much beaten to forget
their language, forget their religion or not even not that,
but spirituality, their culture. Talking to your grandmother, how was that?
(19:06):
I hope you don't mind sharing that for people that
don't understand. That might make a difference to saying this
was definitely wrong.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
She didn't talk about it.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Oh she didn't at all.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
No, I mean, and that's not uncommon. I mean, if you,
if you can feel like your own families of those listening, like,
if you if you had relatives who went to.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
War, Yeah, they don't want to talk about, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
The traumas that they experienced. They just don't talk about it,
you know. So if you have uncles or grandfathers, you know,
who serve in Vietnam, like, they're not going to want
to trip down and tell you the stories sometimes because
you know, a lot of survival for them was you know,
shutting that out. So I never went to the boarding
(19:55):
school systems. But there were still systems active within my lifetime.
I think up until like the mid to late nineties
in Canada there were still working systems.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
That is unbelievable, I really is.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
In the nineties, and one thing that's happening now, the
big thing is the is the taking the bodies back.
So around these schools they're using the ground penetrating sonar
radar to find the bodies of the children lost there.
(20:35):
And so I think with with those children coming home,
it's incredibly difficult, but also like an opportunity for healing,
you know, to have them back. And so I mean, yeah,
I think, you know, it's not the America you're taught
in school, but you know in America that existed strip
(20:57):
babies from their home and oftentimes they were killed. There's
you know a lot of any kind of abuse of
violence you can think of happened. But so now we're
going around to these sites and well I'm not personally,
but you know, you know, the the finding the mass graves.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
Yeah, and that's.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Heartbreaking, but you know it's good that you know, these
babies are coming home.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I feel like I've always felt this way, like I
had a kinship towards Native Americans or just Native people,
indigenous people.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
I don't know. I don't maybe in the.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Past life I was part of a Native tribe somewhere,
I don't know. I just because the music, the culture,
the way nature, because I'm a huge nature person, that's
my meditation. That's where I find peace is through nature.
You know, rug a tree talked of animals. I just
(22:03):
I don't know what it is. That's just where I
feel more at home versus being around people. So I've
always had that from an early childhood. Even in Kansas.
In fact, where I'm from, there's a lot a lot
of places where native tribes were. In fact, I think
(22:25):
in ar Kansas City, Kansas, they found a pretty much
a city because most most of what we've learned that
you were just like a few hundred natives and tpees
and that was about it. Well, no, this, they said,
this had twenty thousand people in this location. And it's
(22:47):
hard to believe that we never heard that. We never
heard that there was a civilization before we even got here,
where they had a you know, a government. They had
so many different things that we actually took a lot
from when we wrote the Constitution, and many of the
(23:08):
things that we used in America history we took from
a lot of native tribes. Which how does that feel?
Knowing that, I mean, I can already say, which how
you feel? But that before we got here, before we
(23:30):
got here, you guys thrived. You really did you know
there was how many hundreds of millions of bison.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
That we pretty much destroyed.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
And people that will listen to this thing, they're like, no,
you didn't know. We wiped out Native Americans, we wiped
out the bison. We just pretty much raped the country
of its resources. And we're still doing it but just
in different ways. But how does that make you feel?
Does it just make you angry as hell to feel
(24:01):
that what happened and what could have been if we
did not and just work together?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Yeah, I mean I hope everyone you know, regardless of
Native or not, thinks about, you know, what not only
what could have been, but what could be now?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
But yeah, like with truth giving, you know, a lot
of what we do is you know, try to really
push for you know, an accurate understanding of the history
of this continent. And yeah, there were cities, so you
know that's not what you learn, you know, the the
(24:40):
narrative were fed just kind of like, oh, this was
just open space and there was like you know, smatterings
of savages and you know they all lived in tps
and but you know, we had immense cities, you know,
with aqueducts like European architecture. Architects were just you know
blown away. You know, well here we're here, like you know,
(25:04):
having big, beautiful, clean cities. You know, they were dumping
shit on each other, you know, in the streets. So
like that's this is not what you picture. You know,
even like you know, if you're driving across country, you know,
the interstates, you know, follow trade routes that existed for
you know, thousands of years. You know, there was there
(25:25):
was commerce, there was you know, art, there was culture,
there was there was so much. There was agriculture, so
I know a lot of you know, the idea of
indigenous people were that we weren't using the land, and
that's just entirely untrue. We just you know, did you know,
permaculture in a in a way that honestly best you know,
(25:49):
the abuse of the soil living living in Iowa. You
know a lot of people like on the on the
coast don't really think of Iowa much, but really we're
ground zero for like a big egg environmental destruction. I
(26:10):
was the most biologically altered place in the country. Yeah,
it used to have you know, the biodiversity of a rainforest,
and now it has a biodiversity of like barely a desert.
And we're also situated bordered by you know, the two
largest rivers, and especially the Mississippi. I was a number
one contributor to the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico.
(26:32):
So you know what farming looks like now is rooting
the soil. I mean, we used to have beautiful you know,
prairie with roots extending, you know, beat down, like holding
the soil in place. And you know, these crop rotations
of corn and soybean don't do much, you know, for
(26:54):
the soil, and then they spray them with shit and
then all that shit runs off into the water and
that all goes down into the Gulf of Mexico and
then you get these algae blooms, and yeah, what's what's
happening to the land is is you know, some very
real colonial violence that we're working to address, but that
(27:16):
you know, just doesn't harm need of people. That's harming
all of us. You know, I always got you know,
like the second fastest rising cancer rate or something or
so much cancer. And you know, they want to blame
that on drinking because that makes it personal responsibility thing,
But it's it's all the carcinogens were exposed to. The
(27:38):
water is not drinkable.
Speaker 3 (27:40):
Really that bad filter?
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah wow, yeah, I h even where I'm from. They
they had to switch it because of there was too
much algae in the water. They had to switch it
to a different location to get water from. So, I
mean that's analogy. That's that definitely is from runoff from
(28:06):
oil and pesticides that they spray sprayed the crops in
the fields.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah, I did. I didn't know that about Iowa. I
I that's that's sad to hear. Wow.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
I want to talk about truth giving truth giving because
we touch on just for a second, you've spoken about
it and and as a path towards honesty and healing
because you know, I think sometimes the truth, like truth
be told, truth giving, it can set you free, it
can open up healing process. And how does this concept
(28:47):
reshape how we understand thanksgiving from your point of indigenous
point of perspective.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah. So, so we just recently held our ninth DAN
Truth Giving event. It's one of my favorite things that
we do as an organization. You know, the originally started
as as an effort to you know, combat the false
narrative of you know, the thanksgiving myth you know, this
(29:18):
idea that you know, everyone came together and we're friends
and it was all good after that. And you know,
if you look at the history of it, you know
understanding that it came in the immediate aftermath of massive
population devastation due to illnesses, smallpox being a lot of it.
(29:45):
So like we didn't I mean, we love our animal relatives,
but we weren't living with livestock the way that the
settlers were, and so there was a lot of immunity
there to disease is that we just did not have.
And so you know, when when people were showing up,
(30:08):
we just lost. And this lost large chunks of population
to illness, and that it kind of gets talked about
sometimes in history more I think as a way to
like be like, oh, we didn't try to god diseases. Oops,
you know nature, you know that was later weaponized. You know,
(30:28):
smallpox blankets were handed out. You know, it was you know, yeah,
what may not have been intentional, did you know, become
biological warfare. But you know, at that first Thanksgiving, you know,
some of the natives there, like you know, not that
long after, you know, found their their heads on spikes,
and so it wasn't the cute, peaceful, little welcome story
(30:51):
that ah we wanted to be, and so we kind
of started up trying to to just you know, counter
that narrative. But you know, you you can't just keep
doing that year after year after year. People are going
to be like, Okay, we heard this last year. And
so it's really as an event grown and become you know,
(31:12):
something beautiful where we we have the opportunity to share culture.
You know, we often have dancers or drummers or speakers,
and we often or we try to, uh to really
talk about what's going on, you know, in in the
world in terms of colonial violence now and what we
(31:33):
should be paying attention to. So over the years a
lot we've been talking with our talking about with our
Palestinian Palestinian relatives and giving them space to talk about,
you know, the colonial violence that they're colonial genocides we
real that they're experiencing right now. And this year we
had members from the free Fridge program in Iowa City, so,
(32:02):
you know, community bridges where you can leave something, take
something as you need it, you know, right now, keeping
our relatives fed, you know that that should really be
the heart of Thanksgiving. But it's very necessary in the
climate right now, especially, you know, to to make sure
people are able to feed themselves. So we had them
come and talk, and we had a representative from the
(32:25):
trans community who who spoke to you know, the issues
they're facing and and like you know, violence against you know,
our trans relatives is also a form of colonial violence.
I mean within many within many tribes what we would
(32:48):
now consider like LGBTQ plus people. You know, they weren't shunned,
they weren't they weren't ostracized, they weren't harmed, they weren't
legislated against. You know, they were valued for their unique contributions,
and in many cases considered you know, sacred and that
you know, having a a different way of being in
(33:10):
the world.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Gender, you know, not just sexuality, but gender norms, you know,
were seemingly forced to live under an American society. Those
those celves are you know, that's some colonial violence, you know, it.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Just I mean that to me, that's what God, you know, Universe,
whatever you, whoever you you worship, or whoever you look to.
That's the way I feel like this Earth was supposed
to be taking care of Mother Earth, taking care of
each other acceptance, feeding the hungry, feeding the poor, you know,
(33:58):
not taking excess. Like I said, it's nice to have
a nice home, it's nice to buy your cars, But
how much does one need is how much was does
one need to you know, to destroy Mother Nature? I
remember back in the eighties when even maybe late seventies,
(34:19):
early eighties, when the margarine you know, and butter where
it's not nice to fool with Mother Nature. I feel
like that's what we do constantly. We full with Mother Nature.
We full with other religions and other people's thoughts and
and believes And I just feel like eventually, if you
believe in karma, it will come back and bite you.
(34:44):
So I just feel like, maybe maybe we should start
taking some wisdom from our native people and indigenous people,
because you really had and have a lot of the
answers to how to how to treat the world and
(35:05):
how to treat each other.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
So yeah, so for for a lot of tribes, you know,
you know, the measure of a person, the esteem that
they're held in was you know, a product of what
they gave, you know, So it wasn't about having the most,
It was about providing the most and giving the most
and sharing the most with your community. And so it's
(35:27):
it's really, you know, the exact opposite of you know,
this wealth worship and wealth hoarding that's happening now. And
even like Christianity in this country has become incredibly warped,
Like Christian nationalism really bears no resemblance to like the
actual teachings of Christ and the Bible, and so you know,
(35:50):
at some point they made up the prosperity gospel to
kind of you know, how do we how do we
account for you know, the fact that we want to
to hoard on to and a mass all this wealth
with the fact that, like Jesus is saying, you know,
it's more difficult for Richard to get into heaven and
they're camels passed and I have a needle, and so
(36:10):
this is like, oh, well, God wants you to be rich,
and it's like that's not that's not it, you know,
this is it's yeah, I don't think people bully well,
it's big. Numbers are really hard, but like Bather, I mean,
what hundreds of billions of dollars trillions now looks like
(36:34):
it's it's hard for the brain to do that. Like
it's you know, used to.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
Be a billion. Now a billion.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
It's a lot, But it used to be when ilage
a million was a lot. Now a million you're like, okay,
it's nice, but a billion. And but now somebody that
might be a trillionaire. Yeah, that is just unfathomable.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
It's yeah, it's it's truly disgusting, it really is.
Speaker 3 (37:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Yeah, I want to I want to talk about how
Native especially the people that you're around, connect to the land.
How does this loss of protection of land and influence
effect not only us personally but as humanity.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
I mean, Indigenous stewardship of land is so important, you
know for the world. If we look at you know,
where biodiversity exists on this planet, it's it's some places
of indigenous stewardship. And you know, in this country, land
has become commodified. It's it's something you buy, and so
(37:55):
you know, when you've historically been kind of kept out
of that you know, wealth securing system, it's hard to
get land. I will say one thing that as an
organization we're really excited about is after you know, like
a decade or so, saving, we're finally able to purchase
some land in Iowa City to to create the spaces,
you know, to do the work that you know we've
(38:17):
been doing, to provide community, to provide healing, to grow gardens,
you know, for the community. It's some soular going, you know,
all the good things. But yeah, I do encourage like
everyone you know listening, to spend time in nature. One.
It's really good for your health, you know, just being
out there, do some green bathing, lower the colors. All
(38:40):
it's good for you. But it also makes you appreciate
what we stand to lose.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
I can attest that. I, like I told you earlier,
I nature is where I heal, and nature is where
I talk to God or universe, whatever you want to say.
I just feel my connection there. I I love it
now that I moved a little bit further out from
the city and I live close to Big Bear Mountain,
so I go to the waterfalls, I go up into
(39:09):
nature and I just walk listen to not nature sounds,
and it just I'm like, if I go to right now,
I'm happy because that's the way. That's the way it
feels to me. And personally or even tribally. How can
(39:30):
you share for people on how to heal healing practices
and you just said, go to nature, but personally and
as community, they can play a role in restoring balance
that prophecy often points towards. Can you can you talk
(39:53):
about that a little bit?
Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah, so, you know, in the question you sent, you know,
you did ask about like the seven Fire's prophecy and
whatever it actually kind of has been thinking has been
something I've been thinking about just especially in this past year.
And this is just me speaking, you know, personally as
an individual, but I I did kind of reach a
(40:20):
point where I feel like it's it's too late kind
of about the prophecy. There's always a psych you know, choose,
you know, like where it's something that can still be
you know, we can there's a chance to you know,
get on the right path and then do things in
a good way. But you know, if you look at
(40:40):
the science, you know, if you there are a lot
of depressed climate scientists, colleges, anyone dealing with the natural world.
Just realizing that, you know, a lot of last chances
are gone and there's a lot of it's too late
(41:04):
for a lot of things. But that just means that
the work we do to build community is even that
much more important because you know, where we might not
be able to to stop you know, the environmental destruction
that's that we've set in motion. We can work to
you know, protect our communities and keep each other safe. Yeah,
(41:27):
and so for people, you know, get to know your
neighbors because those are the feel when shit goes down.
They're the people closest to you. And so so build relationships.
You know, you know, if you've got someone needs to
help help them. You know, if you have skills, you know,
share your skills, teach your skills. You grow a garden,
(41:48):
share your food, you know, teach your neighbors how to
grow some food. Be in community because especially when when
you have that connection, you know, I mean, that's why
that's why churches are so popular in a lot of ways.
This is you know, not just you know, the yeah,
the beliefs, but the coming together and that feeling you
(42:10):
get when you come together. You know, if church isn't
your thing, go to a concert, like you know, and
you know, you have that moment in the you know,
where you're like in the pit or whatever and you
feel it and you feel you know, like you like
kind of moving as one and you're a part of
something you know, bigger than yourself. You know, experience that.
(42:31):
You know, you hear a lot of like joy being
a form of resistance. It is, and that's important. Don't
let it be your only form of resistance. It can't
be the only thing, but it's necessary. And so you know,
on a personal level, you know, experience moments of joy
aage day. You know, take take pause. You know, if
(42:52):
you see something and just wonder in it, Drink as
much water as you can. It's ilo filter it, right,
you know, take care of yourself and take care of
each other. That's really I know what it comes down to.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
I always say with the people that think that the
climate change is doesn't exist, but if there was a
I just watched a Deep Impact the movie where a
comet was heading towards the Earth. If you denied it,
and we know that comets and asteroids have hit the
(43:30):
Earth many times since the beginning of this earth itself.
If we know two years in advance, five years in advance,
that it's going to be a direct hit, we're going
to do everything possible to build something a rocket, missiles,
somebody to go up and try to deflect it.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
To blow it up.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Well, there is a there is a climate comet heading
towards us that we need to do something about. Believe
it or not, something's changed. Something's changing. I know it's
people like, well, it's knowing, So it's not it's not
global warming.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Well did you ever watch don't look up?
Speaker 3 (44:20):
Yes I did. That's a great as.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
You're talking about that, That's what I was thinking about.
And that's kind of what it's going to be. And
you know, like the climate commet kind of has already
hit it this year. And you know, the ultra wealthy
are always going to have their bunkers and their ways
of self preservation. And and for those of us who don't,
what it's going to take is community is coming together
(44:44):
to figure out how to keep each other something. They're
not going to keep us safe. We need to keep
us safe.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah, you know, I hate to say it this way,
but I'll be fifty six in two weeks, thank you,
Thank you. I don't know if the overall effect is
going to affect me personally. It probably will start to
beginning at least in my time on this earth, but
(45:10):
my great nieces and nephews, their children are definitely going
to be the ones that.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
Not benefit.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
But I have to deal with the issues that we
keep causing. And I remember this when I was a
personal training years ago. He was in his seventies, and
I said, you know about the future of our plan.
He goes, am I going to be alive? I said,
probably not. He said, well then I don't care. I'm like,
(45:38):
that's the mindset. I think of a lot of people they.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Don't the opposite generation, right.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
And I just think we need to think about the
people to follow us, because I want a better.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I mean, it's changing now. Like you grew up in Kansas,
Like you remember when winter started.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Oh yeah, No, in the seventies, we used to get
snow all the time. Now it's cold and icy, hardly
ever snows.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
And the summers are getting rough too. I was reading
something about like summer sad, you know, like this is
no effective but like, yeah, like all the smoke from
the fires, well, well the fires themselves are deadly, but like,
you know, I spend a lot of time not being
able to go outside because of like breathing issues. And
that's like coming down from Canada. Yeah, and yeah, the
(46:26):
stint it's not the same. You know, every every winter
I have the sad little twinge of like sless snow.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
You know right, you know it's and like I said,
you can't deny there is a change. I don't care
what you believe there has been a change. I can't
believe that our time is flying by and we're almost
out of time. But what does it mean to you
personally to carry on your ancestors stories, their teachings, they're
even their prophecies in today's world?
Speaker 3 (46:57):
How does that? How do you feel about that?
Speaker 1 (47:01):
How do you try to preserve that not only in
your world, but trying to extend it out to other
others outside of your tribe and your area that you live.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
I mean, I I feel incredibly lucky to be in
the position that I am. You know, rates of Native
high school graduation are not great. You know, the number
of Natives with bachelor's degrees isn't you know that high?
(47:34):
And wow, you know I was fortunate enough to be
able to like, you know, go to graduate school and
get my master's and then you know too, to meet
you know, similar minded you know friends and cohorts, and
two to find a position working where I can do
(47:54):
stuff like you know, talk about representation with people you
know for for a living and you know, that there's
so much luck involved in that. Like, I'm very lucky that,
you know, I had parents who worked really hard to
you know, break away from a lot of the generational violence.
(48:14):
You know, I'm lucky that, you know, I had the
educational opportunities that I did, and so you know, a
part of that luck comes like, well, now I need
to like pay it forward and do what I can
to to make others' lives better. And you know, in
the ways that I had these opportunities. Yeah, sometimes it
(48:38):
feels heavy and it's and it's hard too, because even
when you get into these positions, there's there's always some
kind of level of almost survivors guilt, right where it's like,
why was I able to make it here? Not that special?
But like you know, I think creator things worked out
for me in a lot of ways.
Speaker 4 (49:01):
Yeah, it's yeah, there's I think there's a profundity there
that you know, right, I feel lucky too to even
have the chance to try to do these things.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Yeah, I appreciate that, and I appreciate what you do
and even what I do in my podcast. You know,
like I said, I've talked to pretty much everybody you
can think of.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
With you know, conspiracy to.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
UFOs, to all kinds of different uh parts of the
paranormal world. But also I you know, I've being in
the background, or not background, being in the forefront talking
to people. You get to learn a lot of things
that sometimes you wish you didn't know. And there's a
(49:53):
lot of things that I'm glad I do know, and
things that you're sharing today. I kind of knew, but
some of the stuff I did not know. And I
appreciate you sharing the knowledge that you've given us. And
and I know a lot of people maybe want to
reach out to you, uh through Great Planes Action. Can
(50:14):
you can you tell it again what Great Planes Action
does and how people might want to be involved in
the organization.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Yeah, Great Planes Action Society or an indigenous nonprofit serving
the Great Planes region, UH doing a variety of work
to combat colonial violence. Please reach out to me. It's
Great Planesaction dot org my uh my web my address
is on the website. And you know, if you uh
(50:45):
subscribe to our newsletter, you'll you'll hear what's going on.
Be you know, tuned into opportunities before I go. As
I was thinking about this, I was feeling bad because
I didn't have like the most you know, spooky or supernatural.
You know, to say, but I was gonna put in
a couple of plugs for some positive Indigenous representations.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Please do, please do.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
I love I love the show Resident Alien. It's over.
Speaker 4 (51:11):
Now.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
Have you watched that one?
Speaker 3 (51:14):
You know, I have not. I've seen it.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
I'm going to watch it, but I have not seen it.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
It is a great show, and it's like the most
low key, like native coded show. I mean they're like
explicitly like Reservation Dogs or Recordford Balls like native shows.
But you know, Resident Alien is is it's native.
Speaker 3 (51:32):
Just love it.
Speaker 2 (51:33):
People might not realize that, but there's one of my
favorite parts. You know, within a lot of Native cultures,
we have stories of sky people.
Speaker 1 (51:43):
Yes, you know, I was going to say, you're going
to have to come back talk to me about that,
but please share it.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
Yes, star people. Yeah, a lot of you know, a
lot of tribes have their own stories of you know,
their interactions with star people. But I just thought it
was funny because you know, in Resident Alien, you know
there's an alien, you know, in your reservations. I'm interacting
with the tribes, and it's just so funny that every time,
like you know, a tribal member finds out that there's
(52:09):
an alien, They're like, oh yeah, just like totally unfazed,
where other people be like I don't believe in aliens?
What No, They're like, oh yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Why is it sometimes though, Native people don't want to
share those stories? Because I remember going to the Navajo
Nation and went to the museum in Arizona, and this
the curate curator for the museum told me. She goes,
oh yeah, when I was a little girl at my
grandma's we used to see this saucer ufo. We can
(52:43):
actually see little aliens inside. And I said, oh my gosh,
will you come on my show? And she goes, oh no, no, no, no,
I don't want to. Why is it sometimes Native people
don't want to share those stories.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
Some things are sacred, you know that they belong to
the people. You know, some you know, we don't want
distorted through some tribes. There are certain times of year
where you can share certain stories, and you know, certain
stories that you only share within the tribe. Another plug
I was going to put in is the new season
of it Welcome to Darry. Yeah, you does tend to
(53:24):
be like Big Stephen King's fans. But in there there's
some some some tribals stuff And the most recent episode
had some really interesting stuff about storytelling, which I was
really excited to see and I think it did a
great job of getting at you know, the importance of
oral storytelling and keeping those stories, you know, within the person.
(53:52):
Can you write something down and can get lost, right,
But you know, if it's something your children grew up
knowing and memorizing, you know it's going to stay with them.
Then you know, not to give too much away about
the episode, But like, unless you have the shining, someone
can't really break into your head, right, how.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
Do you feel about because people like me, this white
boy that is really in love with the Native culture? Well,
how do you feel about that? Do you take offense
when people like myself ask questions and really are really
interested in learning about you know, the culture, the history.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
Do you do you?
Speaker 1 (54:36):
Are you taken back by it? Or are you happy
to share the information?
Speaker 2 (54:42):
You know, when it's coming from a place of sincere
you know, wanting to know, of curiosity, that's great. It
only becomes problematic when people come in with a romanticized
notion that they want you to you know, kind of
reaffirm got it, got it? So, I mean, if you're
(55:02):
open to hearing, you know, things that might not align
with what you you know, I had preconceived notions about
if you're open to hearing things that you know you
might not want to hear, you know, darker histories, true histories,
that's okay, you know. So you know, coming into it
(55:25):
wanting you know, genuine dialogue and understanding is great, you know,
coming into it wanting you know, some little native you know,
mystical that's not benefiting anyone really.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
And now I appreciate that. And I know there's some
people that might listen to this podcast and be offended
by it, but it's not about being offended. It's about
really just knowing the truth of the history, because being
offended by the truth, honestly, is not doing anybody any
good at all.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
And it doesn't make it any less true, you know.
Speaker 3 (56:04):
And yeah, and we.
Speaker 2 (56:06):
Don't want to I don't want to get two down
on people for not knowing the truth like that. That's
not accidental, that's you know, it's a very pursposeful, you know,
constructed narrative that you know, we've been fed and you know,
it's it's hard to think about, you know, all the
(56:27):
things that you're taught up, you know, brought up to
believe being false. Right, But you know, instead of getting
mad about that, just get more and more educated. You know,
you know, not wanting something to be true doesn't make
it not.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
True, no matter how you can weave in and out
of falsehoods or like you said, romanticizing things.
Speaker 3 (56:53):
It's yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
And I also think people tend to think that there's
this sort of anachronistic blame, like wherein they should feel
guilty for what happened before them, before they were alive,
And it's like that's dumb, right, holding you personally accountable.
(57:15):
But it's about knowing, you know, like the full context
of the world that you exist in right now and
what you can be doing.
Speaker 3 (57:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
Now, that's like saying that having an amazing mother but
having a terrible father both are true. But you know,
you can feel shame in how they act, but it's
not your responsibility to change who they are, but you
(57:45):
can change yourself on the perspective on treating other people better.
And I think, like you said, knowing the truth can
sometimes put a perspective in your mind that I can
do better in this world. I can give back more,
I can love more. I can be less judgmental, you know,
(58:06):
more understanding. So we have to You can't deny that
Native people, Indigenous people that were here thousands of years before.
Speaker 3 (58:17):
We even arrived.
Speaker 1 (58:18):
So we need to give that respect and and and
I appreciate you. I respect you and respect everything that
you guys do with your organization.
Speaker 2 (58:31):
Thank you. And I hope people check out our website.
There's a lot of good information there and there's a
lot of beautiful artwork there. We have the free art
page the people can download and print on the beautiful
artwork that we have. And we're on social media. We
do a lot on Instagram, Facebook. Don't remember what we
(58:52):
are on Blue Scott.
Speaker 3 (58:55):
I'm not even on Blue Sky.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
I tried it, and I am like, I can't do
another one. So well, Jessica, thank you so much for
being here, happy, truth giving, and we really appreciate you.
Please come back.
Speaker 3 (59:10):
I'm sure we have.
Speaker 1 (59:11):
Tons of more to talk about because sky people and
all kinds of different prophecies. Maybe we can dive deeper
next time.
Speaker 2 (59:18):
So yeah, and I hope everyone you know enjoys their
time with their family and friends, and you know, just
gratitude for the feasts that they're gonna partake in, don't I'm.
Speaker 3 (59:30):
Gonna eat a lot.
Speaker 1 (59:34):
They'll call me fat Tony afterwards. So all right, thank
you Jessica, and thank you everybody for tuning in. We
really appreciate you. Jessica, Thank you again and all that
you do, and have a great Thanksgiving. I'll be here
next Friday as always, but until then, take care of
yourself and each other.
Speaker 3 (59:54):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
Thanks
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