Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, Halloween is almost here, and we're getting ready to
pull back the curtains on the mysteries that go bump
in the night. I'm your host, Tony Sweet, and tonight
we're diving into an eerie world of haunted dolls and
cursed objects, those seemingly innocent items that hold dark secrets
and restless energies. Joining me today is special guest co
(00:20):
host Intuitive Shauna, who will lend her spiritual insights as
we welcome paranormal investigator and haunted collector Carrie Bergen, and
together we'll uncover the chilling stories behind the possessed relics
and the energies that cling to them, and why some
spirits just refuse to let go. We'll get ready because
(00:41):
tonight the haunted comes to life. I'm your host, Tony Sweet.
Please welcome to the Truth Be Told Studios for the
first time, Carrie Bergen and my co host, Intuitive Shauna. Okay, well,
I'm in between. I'm sandwich in between two intuitive, amazing people,
(01:02):
beautiful ladies. Well, Carrie, thank you for being here. I
appreciate it all the way from Denver, Colorado. Thanks for
having me, of course, and course the Intuitive Shana. I
keep saying Shana Shawna, Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
It's okay, I gotcha. Hi, thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I think I grew up because I grew up with
a Shana And yeah, anyway.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
It's also spelled that way, so you know, leave it
to me to take a simple name and make it difficult.
You know, very on brand, right.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Well, we love that about you. So we're going to
have a great time today because both of you are
very connected when it comes to what you do, and
I'm excited to talk about haunted dolls, haunted objects, and
some amazing other topics in the paranormal world that I
know you both are very in tuned with. But Carrie,
(02:00):
I want to start off because I say everybody that's
in this genre, at least majority of us have had
an experience, have had an opportunity to either see a
spirit or a UFO or Bigfoot whatever it is. But
it really got our attention on watching different TV shows,
comic books and kind of dove into this genre of paranormal.
(02:27):
So tell us how did you get started in the
interest of paranormal Because I think I heard that you
grew up in a haunted house.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I did grow up in a haunted house, and I've
been interested in the paranormal for pretty much as far
back as I can remember, since I was a little kid.
I didn't even know there was anything unusual about much
of what I was experiencing until I got into grade
school and I started talking to other kids about what
I was experiencing, and I realized, not only is that weird,
but other kids don't really want to talk about it.
(03:01):
It's really been a journey for me that took a
turn into investigating the paranormal back in two thousand and
three when my best friend Josh passed away and he
let me know that he was still around and in
ways that I just couldn't ignore. He would leave me
bullseye candies, he would just amazing things, objects would move,
(03:26):
we could sense his smell around, and I wanted to
be able to tell people I was experiencing that, so
I sought to be able to prove it.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
I love that, and that is a great way to
start to really dive into this world. And I know
we've talked about, you know, at the beginning of hanted
dolls and hanted objects, but you've worked with vintage and
antique pieces that really often hold some very amazing and
(03:58):
sometimes not amazing energy and then presence. And how do
you personally defined or define what makes an object haunted?
Because I think a lot of people sometimes we hear
the doors creak in the doors shut and all this stuff,
but we don't know what is defined as haunted. So
(04:19):
how do you find pieces haunted?
Speaker 3 (04:23):
So for me, there is not just one type of
haunted that an object, a place, or a person can be.
And although I think we're really familiar with some obvious ones,
like an object that has an intelligent haunting, I'm also
really interested in objects that have residual energies, which are
energies from us the living that are imprinted on them.
(04:45):
And I'm really interested in the interaction between the energies
of the living and the energies of the dead in
the way that those different things could be represented by objects.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Sean, of what do you because I know you you
have a haunted doll and other objects, what is your
take on that? Because you've been doing this for quite
a while and I know you've brought some items into
the studio when we were in Burbank, California. So tell
us your take on that.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, I agree with Carrie. I do think that there
are various types of hauntings as well as various levels
of hauntings, and that's where we'll see things, you know,
as mild does. Well, this gives me a weird feeling
and sometimes things go missing. Ever since I brought this
doll into the house to something as extreme as Annabel
(05:39):
or Robert the Dahl, so there's different levels of it
as well, and I think, especially in recent years, there's
been such like a blossom, i'll say, a boom of
people interested in it. Where before, like Carrie said, if
you were interested in this, you were kind of the
weird kid, and other people didn't want to talk about it.
And I grew up very used to being the weird one,
(06:02):
and now are weird is becoming more and more, but
I don't want to call it normal, but I'll say curious.
More people are definitely getting curious about it. And I
think one question that poses for me is we're seeing
this boom of the oddities and haunted industry as well.
And I'm always wondering how many of these items have
(06:26):
spirits attached to them, because that's where the spirit went,
versus the beliefs that someone had so strongly that they
really wanted this creepy baby doll that they found at
the thrift store to be haunted, that something was brought
to it for that reason or because of that reason.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
For me, this is even more complex than just those
few oftens, because when I'm looking, for instance, if I'm
looking at the haunted doll industry, if you will, not
only am I thinking about are these dolls actually haunted
with an intelligent spirit? I'm also thinking about, you know,
(07:04):
like you said, people's own wanting for it to be haunted,
but then also things like stories that so many people
are focused on that can create a haunting, or I'm
also thinking about cursed items. I'm thinking about just a
really complex array of options that are there. It's so
(07:26):
much more gray, I think, than the black and white
Is it haunted or is it not haunted?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Absolutely? I mean, can we really have just like a
black and white kind of area with this though? I
feel like, yeah, it's so much more fluid than that.
I do have a question for you, Carrie, just because
this is something that you've you know, dived so deep into.
I'm seeing dolls behind you that I'm assuming have spirits
with where is your boundary of Okay, I'm going to
(07:58):
take this home and figure out if it's haunted, Like
there has to be a level of, like, you know,
being a little scared, Like what if this is something
really crazy that I'm bringing into my space? So how
do you deal with that?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
So I would say I used to have a lot
more fear in the beginning, but I've been doing this
a long time, and how do I know that? So
where's my boundary? I really have to tune in and
listen to what my body is telling me. And sometimes
that's a bit of a journey, depending on like what's
the situation when I come into contact with this energy.
(08:31):
Sometimes I ends up with things that I don't really
want around. But for the most part, I've come to
really trust my gut, and my gut knows if a
doll is having like a negative impact on me, then
I really don't feel obligated to bring that into my home.
But I think there is a little bit of a
subtlety to it, and that I do end up bringing
(08:52):
objects that aren't necessarily automatically comfortable to me. Usually that
signals to me that there's a bit of work to
do you with this spirit, and I like to investigate that.
But I automatically won't bring anything into my home that
makes me feel ill that I don't feel is harmonious.
I like to investigate what sort of story the energy's
(09:15):
attached to an attached to an object are telling me,
and then I have to decide whether that's a story
I really want to be a part of.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I want to ask because when was that first encounter
of your first item that you truly believe was haunted
and how did that experience shape your relationship with starting
to collect art and these items, because having one item
(09:45):
can be enough for one for many people, but having
a whole it looks like a museum of possessions of
stuff like this.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
I would love to tell you about two items that
came into my possession of very very close together. Early
on in my decision to purposely collect haunted items, I
had come to the realization that I had accumulated many
of them, and I hadn't really realized that. And it
was sort of early in my purposeful investigation that I
(10:16):
came across two objects. One of them was a Victorian
photo album. It's just behind me here you can see
right back there in the center of that suitcase is
a velvet Victorian photo album. And I bought that to
put my Victorian photo collection in. And when I bought it,
it was empty. And I brought this home and I
(10:37):
had it in storage for a little while, and I
brought it out a few months later to put photos in.
And when I opened it there were photos in it.
I know they weren't there when I bought it, but
here they were actually just one photo to start, and
I was blown away. I went to go show someone,
and when I opened it up a second time, there
was yet another photo. And these photos began to move
around the album. Sometimes they would show up outside the
(11:00):
album and in places in my house, and you know,
you would think I would be really creeped out by this,
but I was just fascinated. I tried to lock it
up to sort of staff the photos from being able
to move around, but they would show up outside of
a locked cabinet around my house, and I really ended
up feeling like this was something that was pulling me
further into both collecting ephemera and looking into haunted items.
(11:25):
And around the same time, I also acquired a doll
that I call Biti Doll. This one is somewhat infamous
in the different talks that I've given, and he is
I could get him out if you want. He's in
the cabinet behind me. But he is a cloth doll
that has a stitched skeleton face. And he was sitting
in a cabinet at an antique mall early into my
(11:45):
purposeful looking for haunted items, and he just caught my
eye right away. I knew there was something odd about him.
He gave me the creeps. That's not easy to do,
and I was interested in finding out why he creeped
me out so bad. I brought him home and he
started moving around my house right away, ending up in
different positions. I really did not like this. It wasn't
very long before I asked the doll to stop moving
(12:07):
around my house to stay where I put him, and
that did work. But over the many years of me
having Bitie Doll and showing him to people, multiple people
that have been handling Bidie Doll have claimed that the
doll has bit them. I've never personally had this experience.
I chalk that up to always handling the doll with respect,
(12:29):
because everyone that had claimed to be bitten by this
doll was actively being skeptical or saying that it was
ugly or they didn't like it, and they would exclaim,
oh it bit me, and they would throw it. So
that's why I ended up being named Bidie Doll. And
I think that the reason that he was sort of
a prickly energy, he might have been used as some
(12:50):
sort of poppet or voodoo doll. I'm not too sure.
There's a lot about him that's been handmade, and he's
been stamped novelty co which makes me think he could
have been produced as some sort of novelty voodoo doll.
But over the years of being in my collection, he's
quieted down, so he's not quite as active. He doesn't
(13:13):
move around anymore. I've asked him not to. So those
are two objects that creaked me out but really also
fired up my curiosity.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
I would love to take you up on your offer
of bringing Bidie out, if that's okay with you, please.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I would who would turn Who would turn down the opportunity?
I don't know, right I feel pretty safe right here.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I know we're kind of far away, okay.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I can see why it freaked you out. A little bit.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Okay, so this is Bidie Doll.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
He's off camera a little bit. Go to your There
you go, there you go.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Oh my god, whoops, I'm trying to get him on camera.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
There you go, There you go.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Black stockings, and these stocks are actually made from someone's stocking,
which lends to like a personal effect if this were
meant to uh cause someone harm or send them negative energy.
And then if you look closely, it has this super creepy,
kind of sickly smiling skeleton face. And I have been
(14:22):
looking at and collecting dolls pretty much my whole life.
I've never seen another one with a face quite like this.
And it used to be he would give me bad
vibes when I would hold him, but those are all
pretty quiet now, and I'm sure I could stir them up.
But why would I? Why would I want?
Speaker 1 (14:43):
It's okay, can't Ken, Let's say that when you brought
him out, and I did say, oh, I can see
why he creeped you out? Ken, an object or a
haunted doll? Can they take a fence into way? Somebody
speaks to them like that because I don't want to
offend him. And then all of a sudden something in
my office or my home starts. Should one be careful
(15:07):
how they speak to it.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
You know the way that I have since this particular
doll is not quite like that there's a spirit attached,
I have definitely felt like the energy attached to this
is a little more residual, but like residual with intent,
which is what makes me think not necessarily accurs, but
like someone puts some negative thoughts and vibes into this
(15:30):
doll and that can be felt. And I think that
especially when I got to the doll, I don't know
what the history of this doll was. I think it
was maybe like pumped up before I got it, so
like the activity was really strong. When all of a sudden,
it's out of wherever it was, you know, kept hidden before,
(15:50):
and it's getting activity that can fire stuff up. But
because I'm not necessarily beating that sort of energy, I
think the negativity is going to dwindle down. And since
it's not an intelligent spirit, I don't think you have
anything to worry about, like something coming out to get you.
And I think the only way that something negative could
(16:11):
happen with this doll is if you were resonating or
sort of vibing with the negative energy on the doll,
of which I don't sense much anymore. So he's really
quieted down.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I know a lot of artists and people that collect pieces.
Most of people see it as more of a neutral tool.
But you say your objects speak to you, and I'm
curious on how do you listen to an object before
using it as an art because there may be some
(16:48):
that don't want to be used as an art.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, and that this is I'm still learning
about all of this as I go, but there are
definitely some objects that end up not wanting to be
used for art. And I can give you a couple examples.
I've had dolls that I didn't realize were haunted, especially
early on in my collecting and deciding to gather these
(17:14):
things and alter them for art. I didn't always realize
the item I was working with was haunted, but sometimes
I would find out because as I'm trying to work
with the item, weird things what happened. The glue just
wouldn't hold, things would fall over, electronics might break. I'm
just having all sorts of problems, and then it would
sort of dawn on me. Oh, maybe there is an
(17:37):
energy or something attached to this, and that's when I
would sort of tune in get out my pendulum. I
would sometimes ask my guides. It really depends on what
I'm sensing as I deepen my focus into it. But
a couple other examples. I have a clockcase that I
will probably never do anything with. Its definitely haunted, and
(18:01):
I think it's a residual haunting. It's a Victorian clockcase.
I was going to put an assemblage in it, but
and it was broken. As far as I knew when
I bought it, it didn't work. But as I had
opened it and I was cleaning it up and I
was trying to decide what I might build inside this clockcase,
it started ticking. I couldn't quite figure out why it
was ticking, because it's missing parts of its years and things.
(18:25):
I don't quite know how it works. But every time
that I would open this clock up and try to
work on it, it would start ticking, and I would
have all these feelings. And after like a year of
periodically taking this clock out and trying to work on
it and trying to figure out why I wasn't quite
comfortable with it. What was the feeling it gave me.
I think that this particular clock might have been a witness,
(18:47):
if you will, to some sort of horrific event, possibly
a murder. I don't really know. I only have like
the emotions from this event, not a lot of particulars.
But after a while I realized, I'm not really comfortable
working with this energy, but I'm interested in it. I
haven't gotten rid of it, I haven't cleared it. It's
(19:08):
in my closet. I take it out every once in
a while and I consider how it's making me feel.
But in that particular case, I chose not to work
with it because I wasn't really interested in working with
the energies attached to it.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Sean, have you had that experience before where you had
an object or a doll that honestly enjoyed being around
you but nobody else.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Well, I have a haunted doll, Stephanie, that Tony you
have met. I've brought her in and when I first
got her, her energy was very, very negative, at least
with the people that gave her to me, and she
caused a lot of emotional upset, a lot of distraught
(19:55):
for these people. And when I got a hold of her,
we had a talk before she was allowed to come home, like, hey,
we're not doing this here. If you do this, you're
not going to be able to stay here. And I
feel like I really rehabbed the spirit. I think that's
why I came across her path or she came across mind,
was to help heal her. And for a while, she
(20:16):
really wasn't super great. She didn't play well with others.
Now she does, but very similar to Beidi, Like, you
have to approach her with respect, if you're very skeptical
of things like that, If you're rude, she she'll do things.
My co host on my podcast was he's very skeptical
and he was holding her and talking about how he
(20:36):
didn't believe in it. She turned off his mic, she
turned off the light that was on him, things like
that until he apologized. So she does more things like that.
But at first, when I was first working with her,
she wasn't really safe for other people to handle for
a while. But very recently, and by very recently, I
mean two days ago, my son had this door knocker.
(21:01):
It's like an automatic toy doorknocker, and so if you
like push a button, it will knock. And I was
actually doing a haunted Objects event at a local store
that has a pretty good collection of artifacts and some
very heavy and mismanaged energy. And the next day the
doorknocker was in my bed and at first I just thought, okay,
(21:23):
well maybe my son put it there, and then it
started knocking on its own, and it was very conversational
because I was like, can you do that again? Was
this real? And it do it again. I'm like, okay,
well you need to leave now, because immediately my blood
just got icy cold. I was like, oh no, like
this was something from that creepy store, and I was like,
you need to leave. And it slamming and like it
(21:45):
felt like it was yelling back at me, and so
I thought I cleared it, cleared the house, did all that,
and then the other day I was doing just like
my routine house cleansing, that thing started mouthing off and
yelling at me again from the toy box, like okay,
we're done. So it got Florida water poured all over
it and thrown away.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Show you. I'm going to ask you both, but I'll
carry I'll start with you having two three multiple objects
that are has residual or have spirit? Can they be
like siblings and not like each other. And I couldn't
(22:30):
imagine a bunch of spirits on your shelf that all
get along or so how does that work if you
have two spirits or haunted objects that are not compatible.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
So this comes into play particularly with my haunted dolt orphanage,
which is the dolls that I travel with that are
available for people to adopt, and that mix is always changing.
It depends on how much room I have to travel.
Who feels like they should go because sometimes they just
don't cooperate. Where was I going with this?
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
So, the dolls in my orphanage, they sometimes will cause
trouble and I'll have trouble putting them next to each other.
For instance, I have a doll that was I think
belonged to a doll collector and he is attached to
this doll because the doll was given to him by
his wife. But he is really unhappy with the condition
that the doll is in. What has happened to the doll,
(23:32):
the way it's been taken care of and handled over
the years before I got to it. He also seems
like he's a little snobby, a little bit like he
just the feeling I get is like some of these
dolls beneath him and his collection, and his doll doesn't
belong with these other dolls. So I often have to
sort of rearrange my orphanage based on that, And I'm
(23:56):
not sure most of the time that it's something someone
else could pick up on. This is very much an
inner feeling. Sometimes I'll hear like a voice in my
inner ear, but it's when I'm setting up my orphanage.
As long as I've had this particular doll, it says,
if this particular man is standing over my shoulder, he
has opinions about the way that the dolls are displayed.
(24:19):
But on the other hand, and this is even cooler
to me, some of the dolls become friends. They're like
siblings in the other way, and that they get they
become friends with another haunted doll. And I have two
quick examples of this. I have a doll in my
personal collection She'll never go anywhere. The doll's name is
Lily Bell, and the spirit attached is Olivia. She's a
(24:40):
four year old girl. And I don't have necessarily tell
you the whole story of Olivia, but the point is
that she became friends with the doll I had had
in my collection for years. And I didn't realize this
until I was considering putting up this other doll for adoption,
and all of a sudden, all this stuff was going
on in my office. Things are getting knocked over, I'm
hearing taps and knocks, I'm having problems with electricity, and
(25:05):
this is Some of these things are things I had
recognized as Olivia. So I just got Olivia out. I
got out my pendulum. I said, you seem upset, what's
going on? And through a combination of my intuition and
confirming with my pendulum, I find out that she'd become
friends with this other doll, and she just did not
want me to get rid of it. And so now
I keep them together all the time. They're next to
(25:27):
each other in this suitcase behind me, and the other
doll has the spirit of a little boy. He's ten
years old, and as far as I can tell, they
were alive around the same time. So I don't know
if that's why they sort of get along or not,
But so sometimes they become friends. And one time I
(25:47):
had a really great example of this in the doll
Orphanage one day, I had brought a brand new doll in.
It was the first time I brought it anywhere. I
put it in the suitcase with all the rest of
the dolls. I'm having a really interesting time with the
dolls at this particular convention. People were really responding. I
was seeing the same sort of reactions to these dolls
from different people, so I was starting to pay attention.
(26:10):
People were laughing and enjoying it. And then all of
a sudden, this changed. On a dime. I adopted out
a doll, and then people were weeping. People were coming
up in front of my doll orphanage and saying, I'm
just feeling really really sad, like someone's heartbroken. And it
took me a little while, but after enough people said this,
I thought, oh, I don't know why, but one of
(26:30):
the dolls in the orphanage is feeling really upset. Let
me see if I can figure out what's going on.
And it turned out that one of the dolls there
had become very quickly friends with the brand new doll.
The spirit attached to the brand new doll, and they
were just heartbroken to be separated. And I take that
into account now. I tried to pay a little better
attention if I'm noticing that two dolls are sort of
(26:53):
getting along and in sometimes when I bought dolls that
are from the same estate or they come together and
they feel connected like that, sort of like a bonded
pair of cats, I'll decide these dolls have to stay together.
You have to take both or you don't get either
of them. So yeah, I would say that spirits just
like people. They sometimes get along and they sometimes don't.
(27:17):
You that.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
It's so sweet though, that you find them and that
they're that you like, allow them to have friends, and
you adopt them out as bonded pairs. I love that,
but I do just.
Speaker 3 (27:29):
Feel really sensitive to it, so it's hard.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Not to care.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, but that's good, and I think it just shows
the quality of you as like, because I believe if
you're collecting haunted things, you're not just like a collector.
You're also a caretaker because you're a caretaker of those spirits.
So it's just, you know, an example of you being
a good spirit caretaker. I do have a silly question though,
the dolls that don't get along, do they push each other.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
Sometimes it seems that way. Yeah, Yeah, I mean this
is a compon. You know, it's all relative a little bit.
So some of why I think that comes from a
certain feeling i'd get, But other times it's just they're
really subtle. You wouldn't necessarily say, well, that doll's pushing
this doll if it happens once. But when I see
(28:16):
a pattern over a long time, and I'm like, these
two dolls every time they're next to each other, I
can't get either one of them to stay in the suitcase,
you know, then I start to wonder, and I'll often
investigate that.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
I just feel like, if I was a Honted doll,
I think I would push other dolls.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
She would be the gang. She would have a spirit
gang where she'd they'd be following Shinna. Absolutely, is there
a because when we think here on earth, you know,
they would have the kind of cis gender you know,
in cis male, cis female, in gender neutral in the
(29:00):
spirit is when it comes to dolls or objects, do
you feel more there are more female presence of the
spirits when it comes to dolls or is it kind
of a mix, because when we think of dolls in
at least in this world, we think of it more
(29:21):
women or girls. Do you see a mix when it
comes to the gender of the spirit today.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
I do see a mix, maybe on average of just
slight and more females, just because it dolls are typically
something we give to little girls. But in general I
see an almost even mix. I see male spirits that
are attached to, you know, female dolls. I see female
spirits that attached to what looks like a little boy doll.
(29:52):
I see dolls that have attachments from both male and
female spirits at the same time. So so yeah, I
think the reasons that spirits are attached to dolls, let's
talk about that for a second.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Yeah, I'm curious about that.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
I think a lot of people sort of assume that
a spirit that's attached to the doll is attached to
that doll because it was theirs while they were alive.
And I would say that that's not, by any means
always the case. There's so many different reasons why and
when a spirit might become attached to a doll. They
(30:30):
could be attracted to the doll because the doll sort
of looks like them when they were alive. It could
remind them of a doll that they had, It could
remind them of a family member. It could be that, like,
if you have a really creepy doll, a spirit that
wants to scare people is going to be attracted to
that because you're naturally going to respond creepy, Whereas if you're,
(30:53):
say the spirit of a child that really just wants comfort,
you might seek out a baby doll that's already being
held then looks cute and sweet to people, because that's
the kind of response that doll is going to get.
That's the sort of energy and projections that people are
sending their way. So I think that some of the
reasons that, especially if we're looking at the reasons why
(31:17):
spirits are attracted to dolls, they're also attracted to the
residual energies, and that can be residual energies from people
they knew, residual energies that resonate with their spirits. That
can be the energies of living people that are there.
So I just think it's not just about necessarily wanting
to inhabit a form. I think a lot of the
(31:40):
time spirits are attracted to these dolls, and they're not
always like stuck in a doll. I think a lot
of people have a misconception that a doll that's a
vessel has a spirit that's trapped. And although a spirit
can be contained, I think there's a lot of cases
where this is just really emotionally important and has energy
(32:03):
still attached to it. So a spirit will want to
visit it just the same as they might want to
visit a loved one a house they're familiar with. And
then you can imagine that if these dolls have these
residual energies that are so important to them besides their
own attachment to the doll, then they might care about
whether those energies are being respected and whether or not
(32:27):
those energies are being acknowledged or fed or whatnot.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
I have a question going off of what you just
said actually about these energies being acknowledged and being fed.
Are there is there certain routines or practices that you
have to essentially do the same thing and like maintain
the relationships that you have with your collection.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Sure, so, yeah, I sort of part of the dolls
are sort of a part of my creative process in here.
My workspace feels really quiet and empty without them, So
part of my work is having them in my space
because I like to sort of when I'm contemplating and
(33:14):
I'm in a listening place, I can sense those energies,
and they sort of because of the energies and the
dolls that I'm choosing to have here, they very much
work with my own energies. They can sort of enhance
my own they can sort of call my attention to
a place where I wouldn't look. And most of all,
(33:36):
I think, in particular, the dolls I've chosen to keep
around in my space that I like to work with,
they bring a lot of play and creativity. For instance,
some of them really like to sort of spy on
what I'm working on. I can tell if they're really
excited by it, and sometimes I'll you know, oh, I
hadn't thought of that. You seem really excited by this idea,
(33:57):
and so I'll look into something a little more. And really,
since my home is sort of like a safe space
where I don't necessarily like to experience paranormal activity that
is unwanted, that means that the dolls here are I
(34:22):
don't always sort of actively investigate them, or it's sort
of if they call my attention or if there's a problem,
if the energy doesn't feel right, I'll address that. Otherwise,
it's sort of like having wildlife in your yard. You
know that you pay attention to and you maybe support
and you're there and you pay attention and they're having
(34:44):
an impact. But I sort of let it be organic
in that way, unless they're calling out to me, which
they sometimes do, and then I'll address that.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
I do have a question, because you were talking about
having certain type of energies. Do you perform any type
of ritual protection, rituals of protection or energy clearings before
or after working with any of these haunted pieces, or
do you kind of just set the rules when they
(35:15):
come into the house and leave it as is.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
It's a little bit of both. I do a lot
as much as possible because I'm not perfect, and I
have practices, but you know, it's hard to put them
in practice all the time. So I really try to
have like daily routines and habits that just sort of
help keep me protected and build up. I try to
only work with my dolls when I'm well rested, when
(35:41):
i'm feeling well, when i'm grounded, and there's a lot
of daily things that I put into so that I
know when i'm going to interact. There's already a lot
of practices built up, so I'm safe, but I will often,
especially if I'm not sure what I'm sensing about an object,
(36:02):
I will call in support. And depending on what sort
of investigation or session I'm doing, I will do. I
do cleansing. Sometimes, I do call in support, I do
call in protection, and I do this in just a
million different ways, sort of whatever's handy at the time.
I'll use my pendulum, I use visualization, I'll use herbs
(36:25):
and crystals sometimes, and that's also I think a part
of my daily practice.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
That's pretty good. Seanna, do you do you how do
you handle because you work with a lot of not
only your own but other people's energies, how do you
protect yourself or going into this.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Good spiritual hygiene is important? Yeah, well, I feel like
that's a layered thing, right, So I feel like you
kind of just have like your standard base thing. A
lot of times I always wear my necklace that has
my my cornudle, it has my evil eye, it has
my monocornudle. These are like Italian folk magic things for protection,
(37:10):
and that is one of my like first just daily things,
as well as things like black turmaline, which is always
on hand, usually somewhere nearby wherever my workspace is. When
it comes to dealing with people's energy that may be
really heavy, or an item's energy or something like that
a little more paranormal, that's where we have to do
(37:31):
things like call again, calling protections. Like Carrie said, but
I think it's really important to kind of know where
your face is and what you believe in, because you know,
calling in Jesus may not be very effective for me
as a pagan, but it may be very effective for
another person. So you know, for me, I do work
(37:52):
with archangel Michael, and I lean really heavily on my
ancestors for protection or my kind of top go go
tos for that. So I think part of it too
is understanding your boundaries and keeping an energetic boundary in
front of you, especially if there's a more abrasive energy
coming from a person or an object or whatever it
(38:13):
is a situation shielding is important. I think if you're
able to be mindful of that and stay on top
of that, you tend to not have to run into
too much. But I will say I think, as with
any industry, I think people that are novices unless they're
over the ambitious tend to be very good about putting
(38:33):
these things in place every day. But when you become
more advanced and more used to it, I think we
can get a little lazy and irresponsible. We're not careful,
which where I have absolutely been guilty of that and
I've had consequences because of that, just like that door
knocker I just told you guys about, I clearly was
(38:54):
not on my a game, which was really irresponsible because
I was around a lot of artifacts that I didn't know.
So I do think the hardest part tends to be
just like being accountable and being on top of it.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
That is pretty cool because I think that's a learning
lesson for a lot of people out there that especially
people that are not knowledgeable about it. Just starting to
handle haunted or possessed or residual spirit objects, and I
think it's important to protect yourself.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
I do have a.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Question, Carrie, because we've mentioned a lot of residual and hauntings,
because for the people that are just layman term, what
is the two differences, Because between residual and just a haunting, yeah,
there is a difference, And if you can explain that
for me, please.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
This is one of my favorite things to talk about. Actually.
So we're all familiar with an intelligent haunting, that's your
classic disembodied spirit attached to an object, but a residual
haunting is so much It's very interesting to me because
a residual haunting is created by us, the living. If
(40:13):
you think about an object that you've had for a
long time, like maybe a piece of jewelry that you wear,
or maybe your car keys that you handle every day,
those things are soaking up our plots and our emotions
and our energies, and the more we use them, and
especially if they have a particular purpose, like our car keys,
we're using those for very similar things, and we're gonna
(40:35):
have very similar energies going on every time we use that.
Let's say we lose that item or we're not alive anymore,
someone else can come across that item and still pick
up on our essence. So for me, this is super interesting.
I know where I hear a lot of people talking
about residuals as it applies to the residual energies from
(40:56):
someone that's living who's past, But residual energy is really
created by us, the living, So we don't have to
be dead in order to create a residual haunting, so
to speak. And because of that, I think that we,
as living people are creating and sustaining residual energies or hauntings,
(41:17):
if you will, on a daily basis.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
That's a really good point. I never really thought about
the idea of residual energy being something because you're right,
residual energy is created by the living, so why couldn't
we tap into that from someone that is still living.
That's that's a really interesting concept. Yeah, it makes so
much sense. I think I just have one of those
mind blown moments. Thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
Of course, if you.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Want to ask you a little bit, because as I
said earlier, I've been kind of I was stalking online
a little bit. I was who is this person? They
are so cool because you have I love your art.
You have amazing like mixed media assemblage art that's so macabre,
and the drawings that you have. I love that. It's
very spooky but very pin up, like I just love
(42:05):
all of it. But you also deal with vintage and
is all of the because so it goes beyond all
the teen postcards and different you know, pieces of art.
You've mentioned your haunted photo album, a clockcase, things like that.
Was this something that inspired you because of you kind
(42:26):
of coming in contact with haunted objects, or was it
more you were into vintage and then all the spirits
realized they could kind of come to you through items
that way, Like where's the journey there?
Speaker 3 (42:38):
You know? I think it starts with being really sensitive
to this stuff because even as a kid, I used
to go antiqueing with my family as a little kid,
and I just always used to find myself really just
marveling lost, like time travel almost for me. And I
feel like psychometry is one of my gifts. And so
(43:00):
so as I'm touching things, I'm getting just so much.
It's like a rich journey for me. I'm getting bits
of memories, I'm getting bits of history, I'm getting different emotions.
And I think because of that, even if it's just
a little scrap of paper or like it's a broken
(43:22):
doll or you know, a photo album that's falling apart,
I can still sense those things. And so I would
just like my heart would break when I would see
these things being unappreciated, being thrown away. And so really
my collecting as far as vintage items started with just
things that felt like there was a story, things that
(43:44):
sparked my curiosity for some reason that I didn't fully
understand when I began collecting. I was just collecting things
that it felt like there was more to the object
than just the object. I didn't know what it was
when I first started collecting.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
So.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
I don't know why what you asked me, I journeyed
it all over.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
But that's kind of the way this stuff goes. I've noticed,
at least from my experiences and some people I've talked to.
I feel like when you open yourself up to the
paranormal or really anything in this spiritual realm, like you
go to find it and then it equally kind of
begins to find you. And so I'm sure you've had
(44:26):
that happen where you know, of course, you go and
you're looking for a vintage and you're looking for these things,
but I'm sure it equally kind of just arrives in
your life as well. Have you noticed, like any particular
time period that seems to be more attracted to you?
Are you attracted to.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
I am definitely interested in the late eighteen hundreds to
the nineteen twenties and I would say I do find
a lot of things like that. And I would actually
say that the way that I've gotten to where I
am is by following these things that seem to come
to me out of nowhere. And it's been in sort
(45:10):
of witnessing my own experience and working with these things
that I've recognized bigger patterns, and I've really just kind
of like been studying my own self and my own
reaction to these things. And so that's why I sometimes
say like I'm still learning. I'm always uncovering more about
what it means, how I'm doing it, why I'm doing it.
(45:33):
But I definitely, in some cases feel like I've been
led to be working on all the things I've been
working on by amazing coincidences of coming across objects, are
being given objects, or being at just the right place
at just the right time, or these things that just
absolutely inspire me. And I have this thing that I
call the pin or the Spidey sense, which is I
(45:57):
get these feelings, these intuitive feelings that there is an
item that I need to go see. Sometimes this will
be really specific, like I might actually have a picture
in my mind's eye of something. Sometimes it'll be more
of like a feeling of where I need to go look.
Sometimes it's a feeling of like, oh, there's something that
you need to go see right now, Like it's related
(46:17):
to what you're working on right now.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
Go.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
And when I follow these pings or hunches, I find
the most amazing, amazing things. And so after finally realizing
that was happening, it's a little more real time now.
So when I'm out, I just I don't question it
so much. I just listen right away. Oh, I'm getting
a ping. I'm having a feeling there's an item over
this way, and in particular that happens with haunted dolls,
(46:45):
mourning and Victorian ephemera and disaster related items.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Wow, I I when you started talking about like these
pictures or objects from the late eighteen hundreds or early
nineteen hundreds, I'm going to show you this. This is
one of my great great I just happened to happen
on my laptop or my desktop, great great or great
(47:15):
third great grandparents. Have you ever worked with people with
that do ancestral work to see if they are any
residual connection or haunting or spirits that are still connected
to photos like this or objects from their family's past.
(47:39):
I think that would be fascinating to work with people
that I'm mostly just my.
Speaker 3 (47:43):
Own work with myself. No one's ever asked me, but
I'd love to do that.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
I think that would be a because so many people
are really trying to find their family connections. And this,
you know, because I tell people the time, you know,
when they say family trees, there's a lot of brand
is on the tree. And so the connections that you
bring from the DNA, you know, sent from generations past.
(48:10):
And also you're talking about you're so connected to it.
Do you feel like this may be a past life experience,
that that was an era that you lived in.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
I think it's a very varied effect. I think that
I have possibly past lives. I think definitely ancestry, I
think definitely. You know, I didn't know what my an
half my ancestry was until twenty twenty when I did
(48:41):
an ancestry DNA test, and what I found out completely
blew my mind and is absolutely a part of furthering
my journey.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Now.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
I found out that I have Salem ancestry on both
sides of the trial. I have some really amazing authors
in my history and so They definitely I feel are
some part of the sort of extra coincidences I experience
around some of these things. I definitely feel supported and led. Yeah,
(49:16):
and I think they definitely help keep me safe as
well energetically. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
Well, I know you have a lot of objects, and
this is just kind of a fun question, but if
you could create a museum of your haunted job dolls
and objects from your collection, what would the first exhibit
be titled? In Which item would you greet visitors at
the door with?
Speaker 3 (49:45):
Wo boy? Hmmm, gosh. It might have to be my
photo album, my haunted photo album. I know I already
told you about that one, but it's very closely tied
with my story and my journey, and I, you know,
(50:09):
I do not I know what the exhibit would be.
I'm not sure which items. I think it would probably
be multiple items. My first exhibit would be about residual hauntings,
for sure, and it would be a group of items
that you would be allowed to touch that's cool, and
you would be allowed to sort of see what you sense,
(50:30):
and it would be a whole thing, which my goal
at the end of the exhibit would be for you
to have a much deeper understanding of how you are
on a daily basis creating and contributing to residual hauntings. Oh,
I could use happy puppy.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
I love that he's saying that. I'm imagining like a
touch tank, you know, like am here we go?
Speaker 3 (51:02):
Oh that's cute, looks this is happy puppy. That happy
puppy has my favorite residual haunting. So this has the
residual energy of a six year old girl's birthday party.
And this little doggie, he's from the nineteen fifties. He's
a little robot. He originally would he would have walked,
(51:25):
he would have wagged his little tail, his little ears
would have hurked, he even barked. And when I hold
this little dog, I have just oh my heart wants
to explode exuberance. I feel like the feeling you had
when you met your first real puppy and you held
your first puppy. So I just feel this girl absolutely
(51:47):
loved this thing, and she has such good memories that
and she kept this dog her whole life, and every
time she looked at it or touched it, she just
reinforced that positive memory. And so it just uplifts me
every time. I love happy puppy.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
Love it, Shanna. What would be your exhibit?
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Gosh, I don't even know. Well, you know, I think
my exhibit because I do have a soft spot for
a graveyard dirt. I love different inventing cemeteries. I just
I love them. I think a lot of times they're
absolutely stunning. It's also really fascinating to see the different
(52:31):
religious and spiritual practices that people have that are put
in place through cemeteries after death in a way that
they tend to their ancestors that way, and even just
regionally how things are done, like in Los Angeles, we
don't really have a lot of like the typical headstones
that are standing above ground. We have them like flat
on the ground. And so, you know, going to other
parts of the country, I've been able to see some
(52:54):
just truly breathtaking cemeteries. And from that, I think my
like haunted hoarder brain is a gift the dirt with you.
So I do my bad habit with that is I
will have little bags that I promise I'll remember where
they're from. And now I have a bunch of bags.
I'm like, I don't remember which is from, but I
(53:15):
do think that you know, they do hold the essence
of the cemetery and the cemetery's spirits because I do
think that their spirit caretakers at cemeteries as well. And
I think it's also just a good symbol of the
history of the people that have been laid to rest
there that I find it very important for us to
try and do that, especially like if you're walking by
(53:36):
one you still hovered in like you know, debris or
just seems untended to just like brushed off, cleaning it up,
say the person's name, you know, saying people's name, trying
to remember their stories. This is what keeps their spirit
alive and keeps them you know, fresh and unforgotten.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
I love that. I love that, And uh, I know
there's a lot of people might be already starting or
even inspired by you two today that want to start
to collect haunted dolls or haunted objects. What would you suggest, Carrie,
(54:15):
We'll start with you would be the first object. It
doesn't have to be a doll, because there's a lot
of objects that can be carry these residuals and hauntings
as much as dolls. But what would you suggest to
start with? Going from day.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
One, let's see. Well, I would suggest that first of all,
when you go to look for a haunted object, you
look for one that you want to have as a
part of your life. So if you're into, say having
something really creepy and crazy happen in you're daily and
(54:56):
you want some chaos in your life, sure get a
doll that gives you the creeps. But you could look
for an object that resonates with you in a positive
way or that you can uplift in some way. What
would I suggest people start looking for?
Speaker 1 (55:18):
You know, I don't, I don't know, Shenna Shanna, what
do you think.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
The show girl in me loves the idea of like
old Hollywood glamour and just how amazingly gorgeous some of
these people were back then. And there is a lot
to say about costume jewelry, you know, or jewelry in general,
because everyone has that one piece that they just love,
or even like vintage hair brushes, like I have my
(55:51):
grandmother's vintage hair brush, and I think sometimes you can
just feel the energy on that, and to me, it's
not just like glamorous, it just feels a little less intense, because,
like Carrie just said, if you want chaos in your life.
I'm like, man, don't we all have enough?
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (56:10):
You know, so going through something a little lighter sometimes
it's good. So you can look for people's personal effects
like that I think tend to be really good. Or
you could try and find old journals, old bibles, things
like that. Those usually have a lot of energy on
them as well.
Speaker 1 (56:24):
Yeah. Yeah, I In fact, I have my I think
great great grandmother's diary, which is kind of cool to
read what went on in answer? Okay, let's hear it.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (56:41):
I would suggest you look for the haunted items you
already own, no doubt, I guarantee you there's at least
one item in your house that already has yours, grandma's,
someone else's energy used items in your home. And a
lot of this stuff is so much more subtle them
are used to looking for. And one example I like
(57:03):
to give when we're talking about haunted dolls at least,
is that I think almost all of us have had
a haunted doll. We've had experience with hanted dolls in
our homes and having a relationship with them. It's just
that as adults we've forgotten all about it. If you
think of the story of the velveteen rabbit. Or if
you think of imaginary friends and you think how much
(57:27):
time and emotion and energy that we as children share
with our toys, And if you think that residual hauntings
are created by time and attention and energy directed, you know,
over time, towards something, then you would know to just
look at your own childhood toys and you would find
(57:49):
something that is residually counted, but not just yours. You
can think about items from your family, items that are used.
A good bunch of them will have some sort of
energy or story that you can investigate attached to them.
And if you can become familiar with what sort of
energies are attached to the objects you already own, then
(58:13):
you might be able to sort of sense what might
sort of mesh in with your collection.
Speaker 1 (58:18):
Already great answer, I love it. Before we get out
of here, Carrie, where do people follow you find you?
Look at your artwork? I know you have a great website,
can you it's a if fhemera is ephemera.
Speaker 3 (58:35):
Ephemera ephemera obscura dot com. I don't have a lot
of art listed there. I probably should get more listed there.
If you want to see my art. All of that
is on my Instagram. It's Ephemera Double Underscore Obscure and
if you'd like to see my antique and vintage epemera collection,
(58:55):
you can follow me on Instagram at Ephemera Obscura collect.
Speaker 1 (59:01):
And Shanna You and your co host Alexander Rodriguez. They
also have a podcast on the Club Paranormal Network. Can
you tell us about your podcast?
Speaker 2 (59:16):
Yes, I co host Queer from the Other Side. We're
the queer approach to all things paranormal. We explore hauntings,
we explore UFOs. I really want to meet somebody that
has met Bigfoot. I have so many questions. I'm the
resident which of the podcast, so I take more of
the superstitious and the witchy approach to things. Alexander is
(59:38):
much more skeptical, so he brings more of the logic
and the questions into it. But honestly, I think out
of the two of us, he probably has more haunted
experience than I do. I'm kind of jealous, which is
find us. Yeah, you can find us wherever you catch
your podcast stuff like that. Queer from the Other.
Speaker 1 (59:56):
Side perfect and where can people follow?
Speaker 2 (59:59):
You can follow me on Instagram and TikTok got Intuitive Shauna.
I've put lots of witchy things and just all of
my occulty escopades up there.
Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Love it well. Thank you both, Carrie, thank you so
much for taking time out and being on the show,
and it was great. I learned so much from you.
I've had quite a bit of taste a taste of
these haunted objects through Shauna, but that you really put
(01:00:33):
the icing on the cake, so I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
It was wonderful.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
But thank you everybody for tuning in. I really appreciate it,
and please like, share, and follow this channel. Please follow
the co host Intuitive Shauna and also Carrie Bergen, Is
that right Bergen? So we really appreciate you tuning in
every Friday at three o'clock right here on the Club
(01:01:00):
Paranormal Network for truth be told. And until next time,
please take care of yourself and leave each other bye
bye