Rendlesham Forest Revisited: What John Burroughs Really Discovered

The legendary Rendlesham Forest UFO encounter has haunted military history for over four decades. Many have speculated. Many have theorized. But only a few were there.

In this episode of Truth Be Told Paranormal, host Tony Sweet sits down with John Burroughs, one of the original military witnesses and participants in the 1980 Rendlesham incident. For the first time in a long time, John opens up about what he believes really happened, what the government knew, and why the truth continues to be suppressed. We talk about:

• The moment that changed his life in the Rendlesham woods
• What he learned afterward from classified files and military sources
• Why the U.S. and U.K. still don’t want the full story revealed
• How this event continues to affect veterans and disclosure today
• His personal theories on extraterrestrials, technology, and the phenomenon

Whether you're a skeptic or fully convinced the truth is out there, this interview goes deeper than the headlines and folklore. John offers a perspective that only an eyewitness can.

Thanks for watching, and as always—keep seeking the truth.

#RendleshamForest #JohnBurroughs #TruthBeToldParanormal #UFO #UAP #Extraterrestrial #Disclosure #MilitaryWitness #UFOEncounter #AlienTechnology #GovernmentCoverup #ParanormalPodcast #UFOsighting #Rendlesham #UAPDisclosure #AlienEncounter #VeteransVoice #TruthBeTold #TonySweet #UFOHistory


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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, welcome back to Truth Be Told. I'm Tony Sweet,
and today we're going to revisit one of the most
compelling UFO cases in history, the nineteen eighty Rendelsham Forests incident,
often called the British Roswell. Over multiple nights near the
US Air Force bases at Bentwater and Woodbridge, strange lights

(00:22):
appeared in a forest. Security teams were dispatched, and what
they encountered has remained unexplained for more than four decades.
Our guest today, John Burrows, one of the first responders
who walked into those woods expecting a downed aircraft and
instead came face to face with something extraordinary. His experience

(00:43):
included a craft emitting an airy light, missing time, and
long term health effects that led to sealed medical records
and a long fight for the government acknowledgment. John has
since became a leading voice of the case, co authoring
and Rendall scham Forrest and appearing in documentaries worldwide. Today,

(01:05):
he joins us to share what really happened and what
still is being kept in the shadows, and why this
encounter continues to matter. I'm Tony Sweet with Truth be Told.
Please welcome to the Truth be told Studios for the
first time. Let's welcome John Burrows. Okay, yes, we have
a legend on today, John Burrows, thank you for being here.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Thanks for having me on. Tom.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Well, listen, I know, like we were talking about before,
I said, I know you've been rehashing this incident for
forty almost forty five years now because the anniversary is
coming up. But you know it's in our community. It's
one of the most influential examples of what UFO connection,

(01:53):
just like Roswell was, So it never gets old and
never loses its thrill. And hope we can touch on
some things that bring back some great memories and maybe
maybe shock some of our people that are listening today.
Sounds good, all right, So well let's just get started.

(02:13):
So take us back to which is crazy December nineteen
eighty when we first well actually you first had this encounter,
but the very first moment you realized something unusual was
happening near the Air Force Base Bentwaters. Can you tell

(02:36):
us kind of that incident again, So some of the
people that may not know this encounter, what it was
like and how it happened.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Sure it was we weren't I was in law enforcement.
So it was called security Police in nineteen eighty it's
now called Security Forces in the Air Force. So we
were separate law enforcement security. I was on the law
enforcement side and it was our last midnight shift and
the night shifts were three swings three minutes, so we

(03:08):
were finishing up a six day cycle. We were coming
on duty at twenty three hundred on Christmas night. Nothing
was a slow night on both bases. Now I will
not correct you, but I will tell you the incident
took place outside the back ad of Woodbridge, Arif Foodbridge,
not Betwaters. Always correct. It's always been designated the Betwaters

(03:31):
incident to run on from Forest incident. But the base
everything came out of was Arif Woodbridge, which was a
smaller base that smaller than Betwaters. Betwaters as well. The
command and everything got it okay perfect. So it was
about three o'clock in the morning. My supervisor, just shortly
before that I wanted to meet up with me. He

(03:51):
was new to the base, wanted to ride around a
little bit since it was a slow night. We'd done
everything we needed to do as far as building checks
and stuff like that, and he just wanted to talk
to me a little bit more about, you know, getting
to know him and everything. I've been there a year
and a half and it was just a little bit
after three o'clock or right around three o'clock, and we
were driving down and one of the checks that we

(04:13):
would do would be the east gate because that's where
it isn't open it. I'm in that shift, but we'd
always go down there and check it. And as we
were heading down that way, he saw something strange coming
down from up above and the sky into the forest.
I didn't see it right away. He got my attention
by that time. It was basically in the forest. You
didn't know what it was. So instead of calling it

(04:35):
right away and you know, maybe being made to look stupid,
we decided to open the back eate, go down down
to the end of the road, and then see if
we get a better idea what we were doing with.
When we did that, it was and I got out
of the vehicle at the end of the road to
look into the forest because the forest was right there
on the fringes before he went left or right at
the teeth. Things didn't seem right. There's static electricity in

(04:59):
the air, just seemed it seemed like well, we're off
base and something's not right. Flew back up to the gate,
called it on the phone, got ended up with CSC
because the desk wouldn't believe us because they thought we
were yanking their chain, and CSC took out the call,
they transferred us. Took the call, then sent the Scary
Soup down to verify for Woodbridge and he saw the

(05:22):
same thing we did. So there was a bunch of
discussions that went on behind the scenes, and the decision
was made by the shift commander, most likely through the
command posts, and also radar was contacted on base, which
then contacted some outside agencies and evidently there had been

(05:42):
an object in that area and it came down it
disappeared on radar. So that was the only real reason
we could go up base. It wasn't immediate, there was
no threat to the base. It just was something going
on just outside the perimeter of the base in the
forest of us. Scaredy Soup, his rider, myself, we went ahead,

(06:04):
went down into the forest. We could go only go
so far in a logging road where we had the
parked vehicle going on foot. Eventually we got close to something.
As we went up we started to go up a
berm and there whatever it was was there in the
clearing in front of us. I remember a bright white
light hitting the ground, dimming then getting bright again, or

(06:28):
whatever it was went up into the trees and left.
The younger airman that was his first night on duty,
which one the first night right, he remembered us actually
being armed and I drew my weapon and whatever it
was knocked us out. Oh wow, that's what he That's
what he's done. In his interview, he did that and
I know what I saw. So people have never heard

(06:50):
that before, and I know what I saw. James Fox
actually got an interview with him, and then after that
he went radio silence because evidently the he got out
audited by the IRS right after that, and now you
won't talk to anybody. He felt that that was the
reason why they came after him. Then the security supervisor,
his recolletee is completely different. He got up, walked around it,

(07:14):
made notes, took pictures, touched it, had a binary download.
All that happened. Wow. From that point when it did,
we all agreed. It eventually went up into the sky
and disappeared out into the field. We got back up,
went over the fence that separated the forest from the
field the farm fields, and went down towards some cottages

(07:38):
that were down at the other end of the field,
and there was a road in another field. As we
were getting about halfway through the field, you can hear
the animals making noises, acting crazy, and you could see
you saw a light. There was a light hovering down
by the cottage above like the cottages. So then it disappeared,

(07:59):
and we got cross the road into the next field,
heading towards the coast, and then in the distance we
saw lights in the sky again and then they disappeared.
Once again they disappeared, and then we kept going, which
again time got screwed up with this. But we started
after three, probably closer to three thirty, and we were

(08:19):
back back from where we went and back by five.
And once I went back over there years later to
try to see how far it was pretty much a
conclusion where we ended up and then came back. We
couldn't have got there and back in the amount of
time that we remember happening when we got back to

(08:39):
the rally point, and they lost contact with us on
radio numerous times, including for forty five minutes now when
we got back to the rally point, our watches were
forty five minutes slow. So the tower, the WSA tower
saw some stuff that night, saw something. We were told
that they saw something it looked like was coming from

(09:01):
the ground going up into whatever they were observing above
the forest. And then I think some other people the
WSA have gone on records saying they saw strange stuff too.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
So can I ask what was the What was the
atmosphere of your group? Was it fear? Was it confusion? Curiosity?
A little bit of everything?

Speaker 2 (09:25):
The three of us.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Could you seem like you guys just went right up
there where most people would be like, I'm going this way.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Well, I mean, I mean you could say we were
drawn towards it somewhat. You're right, there was. There was
real no hesitation. We were trying to get close to
it to figure out what it was. We did originally
go out that thinking maybe an aircraft crashed, But the
thing was is that, yeah, I did, we were driven
towards it. Coming back, I don't remember much, but when

(09:57):
I went in an hypnosis, we were discussing how we
got from where we were to where we were. We
didn't really remember everything and things just didn't add up,
but and we were trying to figure out what we
dealt with and we couldn't explain it. I mean, we

(10:17):
couldn't explain it, and we didn't know what we were
going to say when we met back up, and that's
when we found out they lost radio contact with this.
They'd actually sent a small group out trying to find
as they found their vehicle, but that's as far as
they got. And so there was a bunch of weird
stuff that went on that night. They can't be explained,
and I know, we can get to it real fast.

(10:40):
There's been skeptics and there's stuff still circulating to this
day that we dealt with the lighthouse. The lighthouse actually
through research, was involved in this because what's come to
be known is that area back there that we went
into the forest and towards the coastline was actually the
British area fifty one, right, the most highly sophisticated technology

(11:03):
that we're working on at the time during our event,
and there was actually a group through a university that
was down there studying what UAPs are. You know, they
weren't called you apiece back at that point in time
by the public, but they actually were down there on
a sanctioned project studying UAPs, and what they were studying

(11:24):
overlapped into our incident. There's a book written on it.
So we had a weird encounter, just like where our
first encounter was. You couldn't see the lighthouse there, but folklore,
you know, people like to get their name up in lights,
and unfortunately there's a lot of dumb people that I'll
actually believe that.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Oh for sure, I.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
Mean, and it builds from here on why it wasn't
the lighthouse and why we had an incident. We can
go on further.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
So there's always I mean, I've worked in any every
parts of paranormal from psychics to ghosts, to UFOs to
big but you're always going to have skeptics and people
that do that, which it comes with the territory, which
whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
But but the interesting thing about I can say this
with this, everything that they made up fit into a
narrative that was real. Like that lighthouse, they were running
test equipment. They originally had developed radar there. I don't
know if you knew that they were working on lasers
and they figured out radar and that was sort of

(12:29):
the original radar system was developed right there out there
at Martlesome Heath Are at Bowsing. Wow. So they had
systems tied from the original radar systems into the lighthouse
through a system that was creating and sending frequencies into
the forest to manipulate the phenomenon, and it manipulated us.

(12:52):
They're also they talked about a Pollo capsule that got recovered.
In reality, it wasn't a poll capsule. It was a
down satellite that we brought down during that event. There
was evidence later uncovered that with everything else going on,
there was a Soviet spiceptllite, their top knot satellite. It
was brought down and brought down right on the coastline,

(13:15):
including there's pictures of the sixty seventh recovering and transporting
it up to Scotland. So that was going on. So
they a lot of things that they were tying into
actually were real. They were just using a cover story
to cover up what really happened. So most people would
walk away from it and not look at it. Because

(13:36):
if you remember, you looked at the initial Arrow report,
the part that came out. What was one of the
things they said they liked to do. They like to
use aliens as a cover story to cover up what
really happened, and nineteen eighty was a time frame when
they were doing.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
That, so it threw a lot of doubt into a
lot of people's head because of that.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Well that was the start of it, and then from
there built up with all the infighting with Colonel Hall
and a guy by named Larry Warren constantly were fighting everywhere,
and a lot of people that were involved never wanted
to come forward because of that. And then I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Go ahead, Oh no, no, I was just gonna say, what,
was there ever a point up to the where you
was all three or you were approaching the object, where
you said this is not from here.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Well, that's what I was going to say. Next. If
I had a dime for everybody that said what they
encounter was alien which at the time we couldn't explain it,
I would say, yes, that was one of the things
across our mind. But over the years, with all the
research I've done and with other people that have helped me,
we've uncovered exactly what was going on out there. So

(14:50):
there was a lot of our own technology being worked
on and developed there and tested there. Besides the fact
there is a phenomenon there which is different than the
UFO nuts and bolts world, which do your fologies having
a hard time with this right now? And I said
this years ago and a little piece that wrote the
Nuts and Bolt's UFO people want to support alien craft

(15:14):
and biological beings, but what came out in seventeen and
what's happened, especially around air force bases is not alien
craft and biological beings. There are light objects which tie
into the UAP phenomenon, which is what basically a lot
of what that twenty seventeen article is about what Bigelow

(15:37):
has talked about, and those Dirts papers discussed to include,
you know, through Senator McCain's office, which is very interesting
because I it was interesting in the backstory to how
McCain got involved in those Dirts papers.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
That's pretty fad. Wow. Wow, I want to go back
to the missing time. It kind of reminds me of
you know, where people get into car crashes, and they said,
I remember up to the point of the crash and
then I remember waking up, you know, two days later.

(16:14):
It's not even it's not even because they were passed out,
but it's like a traumatic experience. Do you when you
look back now and you said there was forty five
minutes that you were missing, do you think you were
abducted or do you think it was just like they.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
I'll lay that out real fact, please please, This is
what UAPs are tied to. Okay, And this is what
the latest movie that just came out that's making a
big splash right now. It's time dilation. It's time dilation bubbles.
There's a paper in the Dirt's paper written by how
put Off that talked about metric tensor time travel. Okay,

(16:58):
and what it is is you create a bubble, which
is like Star Trek actual how they did science fiction
where the ship travels. You create a bubble around something
and it's now in a different type of dimension. It's
in a different reality. Because it's usually I believe, and

(17:19):
if they would ever really be honest about it, it could
sometimes go faster or but I think it slows down.
And you can use this in a lot of weapons systems.
Think about this. If you're standing there in front of
me and I start to pull my weapon and I'm
going to fire on you, you activate that system, you
will no longer be there anymore. You will be either

(17:41):
slower or faster in that dimension or actually travel go
into a different type dimension. And that's what part of
UAPs are. It's in Project Condine. They talked about how
they're going to weaponize it. I've got documents for You's
that they've admitted that they are weaponizing it. Our government's
to get stuff out of they're still stalling my voys

(18:02):
from months ago. There's a particular generator called the Marx generator.
People want to do research into it. It was involved
in the Malsterm incident. It's based off of Tesla technology
and the original Marx generator came online back when the
Philadelphia experiment. Actually have and it affects, it will affect.

(18:26):
It can affect the creation of a time dilation.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
Type of I was just looking this up and I
didn't I didn't know this. You probably did that. It
says the hire of higher elevation time run runs faster
because of the gravitational pull. So it's kind of like,
what you're saying is the craft is bending bending time?

(18:50):
Where is that? What you're kind of saying is.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
You have to create the effect. You have to generate
the effect. Now, the UAPs, the natural UAPs do that
and that's part of what they were studying at the
time outside that day, So they were studying that to
learn how to utilize it in stealth and all kinds
of technology. The biggest issue they've had with it, and

(19:12):
it's starting to become not a problem, is a computing issue.
What's quantums online now? And to generate the energy to
create that effect. Okay, they generated and they were generating
it where we were because they had the nucle power
plant down the coast called Sizewell that was all tied
into those facilities and they were creating those effects with

(19:37):
those radar systems and everything else. Never mind that when
MK Ultra was shut down in the States that got
moved over there. Marconi was working on that and Bartlesom
Heath and Rpousi and Marconi was also working at the time,
which most people don't know, but you can go online
and find it. They were working on star Wars at
those facilities during our event, working on drones. Yeah, the

(20:02):
satellites and star Wars was in R and D back
in the early eighties before Reagan even made it popular.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
That's pretty fascinating. I did not know that so much
was being experimented on in that area.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Yeah, it was made. They call our incident the British
for Oswell, it's actually the British area fifty one there
and a lot of our technology had been shut down
because of mk ULTRA and moved through defense contractors, especially
Marconi over there to England to keep it off the
books for our own Congress. That's exactly when mk ultra

(20:42):
got exposed, is when the big cover up started keeping
stuff from Congress. And that's what's going on right now.
Congress has got a whiff of their stuff going on
that they're not aware of, but they're not going to
find out what it is. It's just like one of
the Congress women said, they voted year on black budgets,
SAP programs. They don't even know what it is. They're

(21:04):
just told this is the amount of money they need
for this project and they say, hey, or na. So
there's a ton of secrets being kept from our lawmakers
and only probably the top end of them have the
clearance or even some of the knowledge of what's going on.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Well, I mean, if you think about it, even presidents now,
for as long as long as you can remember, they
always said ho, when we get in office, we're gonna
look into the UFO phenomenon and Roswell and all these things,
and then they kind of just go quiet. So there
definitely is.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
You know why it goes quiet because here's the deal,
which most people they just admitted that with these Epstein papers. Ultimately,
and there's an argument on this, but it's true because
they talk about this on the news. The gaining unit
that controls the project, the classified material, controls what is

(21:58):
or isn't declassified and rooms. The president in Congress can
order it, but they can hold it back. They don't
have the power to force them to release stuff that
they don't want to, really, right, that's how much power
these agencies have and these SAP programs have.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
That's that's I'll have to give you an example, and
then I'm gonna ask you your thoughts on the reaction
of the Air Force when you experienced this incident. When
I was a kid in the seventies, like late seventies,
my mom, my, two sisters, my brother, and I were
from a small country town in Kansas. We were driving

(22:39):
home out in the country and we saw UFO. I
don't necessarily remember a lot because I was pretty young,
but they my mom she passed away seven years ago,
and we talked about it just a few months before
she passed. But saw a disc kind of like the
one if you if you're watching, kind of behind me

(22:59):
over lake, no noise, no anything, and it eventually left,
but we my mother called the McConnell Air Force Base
in Wichita, Kansas. The very next day they drove down,
which I thought was when Mom told me about this.
She didn't tell me until right before she passed away,

(23:21):
But they actually came down, went to the area and
did their you know, electronical testings and everything, and then
told her, please do not tell anybody about this.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
I don't know what that meant, but she didn't. That's
the last we kind of talked about it. But with
your incident, it's the same thing. You know, initially, how
did the military handle this incident? And from your perspective,
did it intrigue you even more?

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Well? How's the E three Young First Base? I was
nowhere near rope, you know, even in this right we
got called in. I got posted on the back gate.
When I came back on Swings Money Tuesday Wednesday, there
was stuff going on in the forest that's when they
recovered the satellite and a bunch of other stuff that's

(24:12):
going on. But basically rot a statement about the first night,
not the third night, which is the night that we
went out there, and that's probably when I was injured
and got told they were looking into it and just
to not talk about it and leave it alone. They'll
get back to us if they need something. That was
fine with me. I couldn't explain it anyway, So I

(24:35):
finished my tour there. I mean, I didn't live on
base either. What's kept me out of the you know,
the loop because the dorms, I found out later, were
full of things went on they supposedly ready to dorms.
They thought some people had some pictures of it and
all this other stuff. Stuff on a base and a
bunch of stuff was being talked about. But I lived

(24:55):
out base, so I was kind of away from all that,
and we didn't talk about it on flight, so it
was left alone. I left. I left that base, went
to my next base. Nothing happened. It was the third
base at Luke when War of the Worlds came out.
Not War of the Worlds, I mean, I'm sorry. It
was a new British newspaper. I can't remember what it

(25:17):
was called. They actually released it. They got they got
Halt's memo and they Barry Greenwood and Larry Fosse got
Halt's memo and they got it to the I can't remember,
News of the World, News of the World, News of
the World, and they did a front page story the
aliens lined at reyndlssoon. Okay, so that's when all our

(25:40):
trouble started. For all was evolved now prior to that.
The only other thing I found out later was again
goes back to what the arrowpaper said. Immediately, somebody from
the Cops squadron went downtown and was friends with people
so they had I forget what it was called. It
was an organization like movefold in the States in England
investigative and he immediately went down there and told the

(26:02):
people in charge of that area that aliens had landed
it at the base. So that started an alien chase,
not anything else, and that kept a lot of things
away until News of the World hit, and that's when
everybody started chasing those involved. The CNN, all the investigators,

(26:22):
everybody wanted to go after the people's names that were
given up that were involved with it.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
How was that for you, Like you said you were
fine with just because you're like, Okay, it happened. I'm
moving on. How was it for you when this came
out and then all of a sudden, you're exposed to
the world.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Well, remember we didn't have the Internet and stuff like
that right now, so it was a lot of this
stuff was in the dark. I mean, my father started
ringing at my apartment. I'm like, they started asking these questions.
I'm like, sorry, click click, click, hanging up on people,
and then CNN call it and then I had to
take it seriously because I just told them I would

(27:04):
I would get through. I have to go through the
Base public affairs and let him know, and they wouldn't
need to go through the Base public affairs that they
just couldn't come and interview me. So I went to
public affairs and it ended up I ended up getting
called in to a secure area and talking to the
Pentagon public affairs about what I could and couldn't say

(27:24):
and what was going to be done. Because when the
memo got released, they had they had they couldn't, they
had to, they had to agree the memo was real.
And then incident took place, but they wanted to do
damage control with what was said about the memo. So
I did speak briefly with CNN, but the guy was
really cool and he I told him I didn't want

(27:46):
to go on air, and he did put me in
the CNN report that they did.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
So, when did you find out about the medical records?
Weren't your seal?

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah, that that's a good thing that this case came
out because and I'll highlight this to people that understand
right now, go online and look at there's a lawsuit
or something going on with people that worked at Area
fifty one. They just in the local news station out
there did a report on this where guys that worked
out there are getting cancer and it relates to being there.

(28:21):
But the government's denying all access to what was there,
what they were exposed to, what's going on. So they
do this, Okay, they do this in a lot. They
did this with Age's Orange. So with me. Right after
the event, when I went back to the States to Indiana,
I got sick in the summertime, really sick. I didn't
feel great after the event, but I got sick in

(28:44):
the summertime when I was back the base where I
was stationed at was Grissom, and it was a couple
of hours from home. What's a month. I go home
just to see the family and my friends from the area.
And when I got back home there that time, I
got really sick and that the part wasn't from the
UFO directly, but it was from the flu. Had to
go to the emergency room to cover my butt. So

(29:04):
the Air Force. Now I wasn't lying because I couldn't
get back at time. But when I went into the
emergency room, the doctor found a heart murmer. Oh there's
two things about this heart murmer to stand out. One,
you couldn't get in the Air Force if you had
a heart that was a disqualifier. And to my medical
records show that I didn't have a heart murmur or
any heart issues when I came in. So when I

(29:26):
went back to the base, it was strange. At the time,
I didn't put two and two together, but they immediately
got me to write Patterson and I saw some specialists
up there that did all kinds of tests on me,
and they came back and said I had a heart murmur,
my metropile prolapse regurgitation. It wasn't an issue at that

(29:46):
very moment, but they were going to continue to monitor it.
Later I had trouble with my eyes and the same
thing happened. They felt I was exposed to radiation, but
they didn't know where, and they were going to monitor it.
So these were the two is as I developed. Fast
forward to thebe the thirty year market. Believe it was
when we went back for the thirtieth anniversary. After I

(30:09):
came back, I got really sick. I started having really
major heart issues. So the heart doctor that took the
case as a civilian couldn't figure out what was causing
them because what the issues he could see didn't tie
to the effects I was having. And even the insurance

(30:29):
companies eventually stepped in and wouldn't let them do anymore
testing because everything was coming back clean what would be
normally caused some of the heart issues I was having.
So his thing was when did you start having these
heart problems in the first place? And I said back
with the military. He says, can you give me those records?
I said, well, they'll have them, so let's try. Well

(30:51):
that's when the whole thing started. With that. I ended
up having to get centertor to Kyle's office in at first,
and the aid worked on age and orange, which is
what I've talked about the way they sawed on that
and cover stuff up. So she applied for my medical
records and for my personnel records. The first response back
that I got was my records weren't where they were

(31:12):
supposed to be. In course, but I've got that all writing,
so and I've actually presented at in a couple of presentations.
So she followed up with another inquiry and she got
a small portion of my personnel records, but nothing from
anything having to do before eighty two. Everything about me

(31:33):
was not in there from seventy nine to eighty two, okay,
and no medical records. So that started the whole thing
with not having access to my records. From there, she said,
go file for disability because that'll force them to review
any records. Okay. So I filled out all the paperwork

(31:54):
for that file for it took everything to her. Well,
Kyle was retiring, he wasn't running for re election, so
nothing else happened. They stalled everything. They didn't evaluate me
for disability to do anything. So the elections came in November.
This was in the summer of when it was it twelve,

(32:15):
so the elections happened. He didn't run, so a new
senator I got elected, so I got a letter from
him saying they've had no any progress with my case.
I had two options, wait for the new senator to
get sworn in, or go to McCain. She recommended McCain
afford the McCain's office. So the eight I got from

(32:37):
McCain's office was she was shot. She was hot, I
mean as far as hot into helping me. She was
really into the case, really going to help me. A
lot of people would have probably shut down or just
give it a poo poo, right she was on it.
She was everything about it. So they got me in
for an evaluation right away, and when I saw the doctor,

(32:57):
she said, well, everything you tell me when it happened
couldn't have happened because you weren't in the Air Force.
So that was the first real rid flag, besides the
fact that there was no records release that they were
trying to deny. I was in from seventy nine to
eighty two, Okay, So that started to fight with the inquiries,
pushing stuff. Was able to get back door some stuff

(33:20):
and get some records and finally they had to mid
I was in in seventy nine. Then they said, because
of the new evidence, withdraw the appeal, which by then
the appeal was in processed. Foyers were going on. They
denied Senator's office access to most of my They did
foy as long as me. They denied this complete access

(33:41):
to any var FOIA questions or documents we requested. So
then they came back and finally minute we were I
was in in seventy nine and they said, withdraw the
appeal and we'll take care of it. Okay, So I
did it all through the Senator's office. I told her,
I said, this ain't over. She said, yeah, it's an ideal. Now.
In July, I got a letter from him thanking me

(34:02):
for closing the case, and it was done. They weren't
going to go further with it. That's when McCain really
got involved and basically told them, if you don't take
care of this guy, I will open the hearing of
what happened in two him. And then things started changing.
Besides the fact that the Ciego guy showed up also,

(34:26):
he showed up and started he gave some documents to
my lawyer and I to give to the its Department
of War. Now it was d D at the time
and the VA. So that point I started, I got
my surgery, and everything progressed forward. They admitted I was
in and they and they gave me my settlement. Now,

(34:47):
what's interesting about my settlement? And then the other guy
that was with me on night three drew prestenza. He got,
he's got, he got, he got compensated for injuries to
the event too. We were together when we went got
close to something on ninety three. Is they gave us
our settlements based on injured in the line of duty,

(35:08):
which people want to argue about. You don't get a
VA settlement unless you're injured in the line of duty.
You don't. You have to specify where you were injured
and give evidence to support that, which was all based
on the event we went out and what happened to us.
So they accepted all this, agreed with us, and gave

(35:29):
us our settlement based on the fact that we were
injured in the line of duty during Urinals Wars event.
And that was partly based off Condine. Actually the documents
that the CIA gave to my lawyer that were later
classified and so both Adrian and I are being treated

(35:52):
and compensated for injuries that took place during the event.
And that's the only people that are public or a
public There may be some other event that's happened where
somebody's getting to taken care of quietly. But our events
public because the fact that it was made public by
the government themselves when they admitted to the event happening.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, I just think it must have felt good as
being valid and validity of the well I was dying.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
I'm sure a guy hadn't showed up, I would have died.
I had months to live. My heart was completely shutting down.
And the documents he provided on what injured me actually
supported supported what they found what was my problem. And
I got to serve you for fast forward to this
though that group, which is how put off Christopher Green,

(36:46):
Gary Ohen, all these guys that are out there in
the public eye were all the people that were dealing
with me behind the scenes on all this. And Green
went out public on a bove top secret and laid
out some of what injured me two paragraph posting about
three maybe about what injured me, how I was injured,
and everything happened to me related to SAP programs and

(37:09):
Colonel Halt just did an interview on RUSS Colkart and
said Adrian and I were clearly injured during the event. Wow,
So everybody out there that said nothing happened at Rendelssom,
why are Adrian and I being compensated and taken care of?
If the event was just the lighthouse that we were
chasing in the fields.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
You're like, it's on paper, folks, It's on paper.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah, they want that paperwork. These guys wanted to day
that what is the day of disclosure? They wanted to
be be in it. They wanted me to go to
DC me with the Arrow Committee, talked to the Gang
of Eight, and Gris wanted to meet me and all
that other stuff. But I refuse because here's how I'm
going to lay this out today. This is the first
time Tony I've said it, like in an interview like this.

(37:54):
I just spoke to Grisha in the fall. All this
stuff that they're coming out with is hearsay. Granted, Adrey
and I have documents supporting the fact that the VA
acknowledged you were injured and their compensating us, but they've
never publicly stated what injured us or the fact publicly
admitting that that's why they gave us the settlement. So

(38:16):
I told Gresh you go all you guys claim you
have all this power and access, go to the VA
and force their hands, ask where my records are? Are
they records are? Are they classified? Why are they classified?
And what's going on with that? And it's been cricket
since then. I've none of them have approached or went

(38:37):
after those records. Billy Cox, who was a reporter at
the time, actually did approach the VA and their answer
was we don't comment on individual cases, which is exactly
what they said about the area fifty one stuff. If
the person receives compensations because they were injured in their
line of duty? Was this so they're I'm sorry?

Speaker 1 (38:57):
What oh No, I was going to say, was this
everyone involved that was at the location that.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
No just two of us Adrian Berston's we got the
closest to it. That's been confirmed. Pediston Starry Pederson was
a scape supervisor, said he got close to walk around it.
I'm not saying he didn't, but I can also say
he has admitted privately and somewhat publicly in the Citizens
Arians airings that he is being compensated by the government too,

(39:25):
but I've never seen proof of that, or he's never
confirmed that one hundred percent. But Adrian and I both
were close to it on night three when we got
up to it and he said it came over me.
I went into it and I disappeared and it came
over part of him. So him and I for sure

(39:45):
have the paperwork and they're willing to say publicly that
we were being compensated by the government for it.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
Do you think this incident, which is fascinating that it
was so close to any type of military facil But
do you think this incident was supposed to be witnessed
or could have been just a message or maybe a
test directed at the base itself.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
I don't think Night one was intentional. There been stuff
going on prior. That area was known for weird activity
period before, way before our event and after our event.
The thing is, I don't know about Night one. I
doubt it. I think they were doing that stuff because
it was Christmas night. They had actually people had seen
stuff before and reported and got told to leave it alone.

(40:33):
So it just may have been a perfect storm where
because we saw something, radar confirmed it no one was
around that night. It was dead quiet, everybody was off duty.
That we just happened to get authorizations because normally you
don't go off base for that kind of stuff unless
they call you, like the British, say we have something
going on, we need your assistance or something like that.

(40:55):
We actually left the base on our own a court.
We did notify the authorities going out there and something's
taking place, but we normally wouldn't do that. So I
think it was by accident a night one by night three.
I'm not so sure. It may have been a whole
different story because the way it went down and the
fact we are now in night three. The base was
aware of it, chain of command was aware of it.

(41:18):
So why did they authorize the colonel to go out
into the forest with the team? Wow?

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Do you think if you had the same incident now
you and you've already experienced the nineteen eighty event, do
you feel confident to it? Would you approach again in
a different mindset? Because now that you went through it,
how would you approach a new event like this?

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Well, I've had two weird experiences since then, not with
the military. Nothing else happened. Ever with the military that well,
let me rephrase that. There's things that I saw when
I was deployed overseas and classified, I can't talk about it.
And what I mean by that is it involved some
of our equipment, some of the stuff that made me
wonder about what happened to us out there. But when

(42:07):
I was up lived in Sadona for two years, we
went out to an area over Bradshaw Rants. I don't
know if you've heard of that, but that's somewhat similar
to Skinwalker. It just hasn't got the attention Sedona has
because of the weird stuff that happens there. But Brad's
our rants was taken by the government years ago because
there was activity going on out there, UFO activity. So

(42:29):
I was out there on one particular night with a
group of people and we had a bunch of weird
stuff happened to us. So again I wasn't it was weird,
but I wasn't taken aback by it. So that happened,
And then I went up to Skinwalker Rants a couple
of years ago. We were supposed to get on it
and then they denied access at the last minute. Yeah,

(42:52):
we had approval to go on there and then somebody
pulled the plugg it wouldn't let us on, So we
were out there on the back part of it, along
the fence line around the road, and we had all
kinds of weird stuff flying around that night around us.
So I've had a couple other weird experiences and I
just you just kind of sit there and look at it.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Like kind of like the first time.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
The first time was different. I was on duty, yeah,
your job. But these last two times I went out
there just to see an area of something that happened,
and it did. I mean, had experienced two different times
outside of the military.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
So did you have any type of flashbacks or any
memories later on that that you reflected on from maybe
a visitation or just anything remembered later that you didn't
immediately after.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Well, there's things that you well, because there's another whole
backstory that all these people got involved with the government
after the events. But there are things that you I
didn't remember a lot of it. There are things that
you get a little f liesbacks for and stuff that
you or the hypnosis brought it a lot of stuff.

(44:11):
It did. The eighty eight hypnosis brought a lot of
strange stuff out that back then, I could understand today's
hypnosis being more effective by the media and everything, right,
But back in eighty eight, that stuff didn't exist. And
I had it done by a police officer who specialized
in traumatic events and hypnosis. So this was well, this

(44:33):
was you know, this wasn't some I don't say people
that do hypnosis are all woo woo, but this was
specifically done to see if I could remember what happened
got it. It wasn't done to you know, build a
woo woo or anything else. And there's a lot of
interesting things came out that seemed to be real that

(44:53):
I didn't remember.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
So yeah, yeah, I I couldn't imagine. Like I said,
when I when my family saw it, I was so young,
I don't I don't remember it. But my sister she
did say afterwards, she said that night of it she
had dreams about the aliens visiting her. She didn't we
I mean, we didn't see aliens, just the craft, but

(45:15):
she said she had a dream about aliens visiting her.
When she woke up the next day, she had her
socks on and they were soaked like she had been outside.
So that, yeah, it sounded almost like an abduction or
a visitation. But I was curious to see if because
I've heard many times people in their families be visited

(45:37):
almost like a family.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
Linux. That's one of the things that Gary Nolan, Colin
Keller was involved, Christopher Green and put Off and his
sons are involved in this. They don't talk much about them.
That they did is study on one hundred military personnel
that had events that were known. Really most of them
weren't public, you know, some of them are, but majority

(46:01):
of I was put into that study and they were
looking at the brain in the DNA of how what
the DNA was of these individuals. They were looking for
certain markers and stuff. So never got a report back
on mine from this the one hundred person study, and
I didn't do the MRI, but they've gone public and

(46:23):
said there are certain things in some of these people's
brains that they believe that's why they've had more WOW
contact or see it differently than some people there. I mean,
Annie Jacobson did a book and they talked about it
in the book. And he's Gary Nowen's been pretty open
about this in the last couple of years.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
That's pretty fascinating. I would I would kind of wish
you could get your DNA back so we could see.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Well, we did do a side study because I agreed,
well they got my DNA, I wasn't going to give
it to them because there was no way to verify
what they got. This is all done through Stanford, and
I guess there's a lab over in Europe that does
this too. There may be more now because this was
over ten years ago when it started. But I got

(47:12):
him to do a side study on my family heritage
because I'm adopted. I didn't know, and they did a
DNA test on that. I got the report and they
did one on my son and it was kind of
stunning what they claimed. The report says, it says it,
But how do we prove that's my DNA and his DNA?
But according to them, my blood line goes back to

(47:34):
ancient Christ's time passed before Christ. Wow, his mothers does too.
And when we had Caden, we created a new bloodline.
He is different And no one specifically said that this
happens where you create new blood eyes and certain people

(47:56):
are meant to come together to do that.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Sure, I probably went back to the apes and kidding, well.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
You can't get you can't get those results from like online.
This test was done through a lab in Ohio. It
was like over ten grand a test. Ouch. Yeah, I
mean there's no way I could go back and do that.
Well I could technically, I guess I could charge it
or whatever, but I'm not that you know that would

(48:26):
because it's true. It's true. I mean there may be
people out there that have some kind of connection to something,
you know, because you get all this stuff they talk
about is Christ really? Is Christ really a human? Or
is an alien? You know, I've had some people in
government tell me that substitute alien for God, and you

(48:47):
have your answers. The Ten Commandments were made to govern
the people, and man has taken advantage of that and
manipulated it through through as back as far as the Council.
And they use religion to manipulate humanity. So there's a
lot to this that slowly dripping out. But how do

(49:09):
you verify them?

Speaker 1 (49:10):
Yes, yeah, they could say something, but I do with
the DNA testing, I believe you know, I've done not
that that type of testing. Of course, I've done the
DNA test. But to take you back to a certain.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Well, did you know that that's a government thing. Oh yeah,
for sure, they're putting everybody in a database. That was
one of the things that they said about my son
and I my son was in no database. Oh really,
And I was only in one. And I know what
how I got in that database is when they took
my blood and tissue for my surgery. Ah, That's how

(49:47):
I ended up in the database. So that was one
of the things they said. We weren't in any data
or he wasn't in any database.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
That's interesting. Wow, that's that's probably pretty rare.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
It is. It's like there's only a few people like
that that are that. And that's what Nolan said, that
you create a new bloodline.

Speaker 1 (50:09):
You've you've you've been speaking to a lot of people
all over the world, and you go to conferences, you've
had a radio show. When did it become kind of
a passion project for you to talk about this event
where before it sounded like you were like, I'm not

(50:29):
really interested in talking about it. When when did that
become something of a passion project to get this information out?

Speaker 2 (50:36):
Well, the first project I did, a big one, was
called Unsolved Mysteries. And there was a guy I knew
in Phoenix at connections and my name had been dropped.
And in fact I went to his conference in Phoenix
and that's where I met him because they had Larry
Warren and Jenny Randalls there, so he got me on
Unsolved Mistress, Colonel Hall and some of the other people

(50:57):
that were involved. So it was nice to tell my
story sorry, based on what my story really was, that
what all the hyperboleon was out there, what they were
saying about right, And then over the years I would
do some interviews just talking about no, no, that's not right.
They still have my story screwed up to this day,
and they had the event. They continually screwed the event up.

(51:18):
So but when I the thirtieth anniversary was I really
started as I got older, wanted to know things just
didn't add up. Then I got sick, and then that
became I had to prove what happened to us was real.
And I was fortunate enough to get good people behind me,
including Cheryl Bennett in McCain's office, through McCain's office, and

(51:42):
Senator McCain that helped keep me alive and keep me going.
Then afterwards, some of the people that helped me, I
owe them and that was Green and those guys, and
they kept dropping my name, dropping things about DNA, what
injured being all this, so I at least wanted to
go forward talking about what I feel happened as far

(52:02):
as with them, what's possible, what's not, and not the
exaggerations and everything else, so that people understand what from
my perspective what happened and what it means, not from
somebody else's perspective, because all you got to do is
go online. We listen to some of these interviews. What
people have to say, they screw the event up, and
they screwed the individual's involvements up to no.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
I've I've been very fortunate to interview many people like
yourself that I get to hear it, as they say,
straight from the horse's mouth, because I've heard so many
people that do research and they use other people's research
and combine other people's research, and you're like, I'm either
confused or I'm not quite understanding where you get your

(52:49):
knowledge from. But it's a blessing to have people like
you that actually have experienced it.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
And well, well, the crazy thing is they still haven't
gotten They keep screwing up the dates. And that was
originally purposely done to keep people from doing research on it.
But even when I did it unidentified for that was
one of my reciprocal things. All right, I'll come on
and talk about it for you guys, because you were
in the group that helped. They screwed up the dates.

(53:16):
The first night happened on the Christmas night into the
morning of the twenty sixth. The second night happened. I
think it happened early morning of the twenty seventh, because
I don't think anything happened right when they came on
at eleven o'clock. They had a shift commander have an
encounter in early hours of the twenty seventh. The third

(53:39):
night started on the twenty seventh, the midnight shift, and
it swing shift actually and went into the morning of
the twenty eighth. And they get these dates all screwed up.
When we were out there, what we did, who was where,
when they were there, who was or wasn't there, what
they saw, what they didn't see. And that's part of

(53:59):
the problem with the whole incident in hisself. Yes, the
Air Force admitted had happened, but it's so jumbled up.
Who wants to touch it? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Yeah, Well, John, I enjoyed having you. I really appreciate
you sharing your story with us today, and I hope
you come back again because I'm sure we have lots
more to talk about. And if you ever have any
more informations or any other encounters, please let me know.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Well, you gotta wonder if, according to the authorities that
are driving this, the President Trump is supposedly going to
be the disclosure president. That's what Gresh said last Friday
night on Fox. That's what I can't think of the
director or the guy that made the movie just to
come in out now. But he said the same thing

(54:48):
on Rogan. He just said it on Fox. They believe
that we're about to have disclosure. I don't believe that
because it's so tied up and SAP programs and everything else.
But according to them, we're about to have disclosure. Now.
The one thing I would stay if people that are
listening would follow, is if they do release the second

(55:10):
part of the Arrow report. That's supposed to be an
interesting at the second part's supposed to have some interesting
stuff in it, So we'll see if it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
That well, we all look forward to that. And I
agree with you, we've heard it pretty much every president.
So it's the old thing is when I sees it,
I believe it.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
So yeah, but thank you, And I know people can
go to your Facebook page because you're not anywhere else.
I bet I appreciate you not trying to overstimulate this,
but uh, but yeah, go to your Facebook page.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
And there's two books that I've got coming out once
out now called Veritas Obscura. It's called Echo Protocol. It's
a science fiction version of what happened at Rendelsohon and
I wrote it because there's things in it that no
one would believe if I told them, so I interwove
it in the story and you can if you know

(56:09):
the story at all, you'll see a lot of what
I'm talking about. And then there's another book I've got
coming out hopefully sometime in early December, the forty five
year anniversary. It is called Project Rentals from Crossing the Thresholds,
and that's going to go into all the details from
the start of the event, all the people I've met,
all the studies, all the things that have gone on,

(56:32):
and what was put together with all the technology and
how it placed into our future weapons systems. And that's
one of the things in the movie that the guy
said on Brett Baer was the race right now is
to weaponize all this stuff because whoever gets it first
will control the narrative for the next hundred years, just
like the United States did because of the Manhattan Project.

(56:56):
So there you go.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Love it. I can't wait to get the books and
everybody go out and pick them up. And John, Happy Holidays,
Merry Christmas, Happy Thanksgiving, all that good stuff, and hopefully
we'll see you soon. Thanks and thank you everybody for
tuning in on Truth Be Told Paranormal and on the
Club Paranormal Network. Please subscribe, share, and please leave comments,

(57:20):
and we hope you guys have a great holiday. But
until next Friday, I'm Tony Sweet with Truth be Told.
Take care of yourself and each other.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
Bye.