“The Murder That Changed the Manhunt: Dale K. Myers on the Killing of Officer J.D. Tippit”

On this episode of Truth Be Told Paranormal, host Tony Sweet takes you deep into one of the most overlooked but most critical moments connected to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy: the murder of Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit.

Joining us is Dale K. Myers, Emmy Award–winning researcher and author of With Malice: Lee Harvey Oswald and the Murder of Officer J.D. Tippit. For more than three decades, Myers has meticulously reconstructed the timeline, eyewitness accounts, ballistics, and movements of Lee Harvey Oswald in the hour after JFK was shot.

In this gripping conversation, we break down why the Tippit murder matters, what the evidence really reveals, and how Dale’s groundbreaking investigative work challenges misconceptions that have survived for 60+ years.
If you think you know the JFK story… think again.

Tune in and discover the murder that set the manhunt in motion — and the clues it left behind.

👉 Please subscribe, follow, ring the bell, and leave your comments — your support helps us bring deeper investigations to the Truth Be Told community.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/truth-be-told-paranormal--3589860/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
While the anniversary is close of the JFK assassination and
truth be told, today we're stepping back in time into
one of the most pivotal but often misunderstood moments connected
to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, the murder
of Dallas Police Officer JD. Tibbott. While history tends to
focus on the daily plaza, tippet murder remains a crucial

(00:22):
piece of the puzzle. It's the event that trigger the manhunt,
the chase, the gun drawn inside the Texas Theater, and
it holds secrets that many believe unlock the truth about
what happened on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three. To
help us separate fact from myth, we are joined by
one of the most respected and relentless researches in this field,

(00:43):
David K. Myers. He's an Emmy Award winning animator, writer,
investigative historian whose groundbreaking three D recreation in decades of research,
have reshaped what we know about the moments surrounding Officer
Tibbett's death. His book with Malus Lee, Harvey Olswald and
the Murder of Officer JD. Tippett is considered a definitive

(01:05):
deep dive into this case, painstaking, controversial, and absolutely essential.
Today we're going to explore why Tippet murder still matters,
what the evidence actually reveals, and how misconceptions have survived
for more than sixty years. So buckle up. This is
the part of the JFK story. You thought you knew,
but maybe you don't. I'm Tony Sweet with Truth Be Told.

(01:27):
Please welcome to the Truth Told Studios for the first time,
Dale kay Myers. Welcome to the show. Well, it is
the one and only DLL Myers, and I'm excited to have.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
You here, sir, Well, thank you, I'm glad to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah, I mean it's been just a few years since
the assassination of President Kennedy. Were coming up on the
anniversary of his assassination, and I'm sure you've getten getting
a lot of call and saying, hey, I want you
on the show. But no matter how much information they

(02:07):
release with the government, it still doesn't answer questions. It's
still not giving us the information we want or need
that to call this case closed. So I want to
dive right in and talk about because you've spent decades

(02:29):
dissecting one of them. I mean, this most biggest moments
in history American history, especially of the murder of Officer JD. Tibbett.
So everybody thought I was going to say JFK and
they're going to go, what what are you talking about?
But before we get into the evidence, I want to

(02:51):
start with you. What was one of the biggest moments
of this investigating investigations that made you stop and say,
this changes everything I thought I knew about the Tippet case.
And tell me why that changed your mind.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Well, I think most people, as you can sort of
alluded to, don't even know who officer tipp It was.
They don't even know what part that This is a
key part the heart if you ask me, of the story,
it's the heart of the case against Lee Harvey Oswald.
Certainly so. In a brief couple of sentences. Officer JD.
Tipper was a Dallas police officer was shot and killed
forty five minutes after President Kennedy was assassinated, and he

(03:34):
had stopped a man on a residential side street about
two and a half miles from the assassination scene. Apparently
stopped to question him. Because no one really knows what
exactly transpired in terms of the conversation he had, but
where the evidence shows that he stopped. Oswald got out
of the car to question him, Oswald pulled a revolver,

(03:54):
shot in four times and fled the scene. And about
forty five minutes after that, police converted done the Texas
Theater and they arrested Oswald for the shooting of JD. Tippett.
And when they got him back to police headquarters, as
they walked him in, they were questioning employees of the
Texas school Book Depository about the assassination. And several of
those employees said, Hey, that's Lee And the police said what,

(04:17):
and they said, yeah, he works at the depository. Can
you imagine what the police thought. They instantly knew they've
got the prime suspect in the presidential assassination. And as
it turned out, the evidence, all of the hard evidence
that we have today, was gathered by the Dallas Police
in those first forty eight hours. The evidence that has

(04:39):
stood the test of time evident against evidence against Oswald
in not only the tip of shuting, but in the
presidential assassination as well. So for me, in answer to
your question, I sort of gravitated to this because in
the early books that I read, which were Mark Lane's
Rush to Judgment and Thomas Buchanans Who Killed Kennedy. All

(05:04):
the early books that were out there. Of course, they
were all conspiracy oriented, and when you first get into
this case, you have no way to weigh you know
what is truthful and what is not because you're not
really sure, just you're just getting information. And Mark Lane
at the time had written the most about the tip
of shooting, I think about fourteen pages. It was one

(05:24):
chapter in his book Rushed to Judgment, And I thought
that odd because all of these writers would refer to
the tip of shooting as being sort of the heart
of the frame up of the Dallas police framing Lee
Harvey Oswall for not only the tip of shooting. They
felt they framed him to show that he had a
capacity for violence, and then of course, oh well, then

(05:47):
he obviously was framed for the Kennedy shooting as well.
They always talked about this, but they never really got
into the heart of the evidence. So I thought, well,
if this is an obvious it is what they referred
to it as an obvious frame up of Oz and
the tip of shooting, well there should be a slam
dunk because at that time, you know, the early books
I'm reading again, they're all conspiracy oriented. I'm thinking, there's

(06:09):
a conspiracy here, and so why not dive into this
heart of the evidence. So I focused on the tip
of shooting early on in my research, never intending to
write a book or anything like that. It was just
more of a curiosity myself, just to satisfy my own interest.
But the more I found. One of the first things
I did is I ordered all of the documents that

(06:32):
Mark Lane had listed in the back of his book.
He listed the Warrant Commission evidence that he was referring to,
So I thought, well, let's see what else is in
these documents. So I ordered the documents, and when I
get him, I find not only has he taken things
out of context, but he just flat out wide about
some of this stuff. Wow, some of the evidence in
the documents that he's referring to don't say what he

(06:54):
says at all. And so that, of course wet my
appetite for more. And as you know, Tony, you get
into something like this and pretty soon the ball starts
rolling downhill and there's no way to stop it.

Speaker 1 (07:09):
So I mean, you're leaning towards Oswald was the shooter.
So what was the most overlooked evidence that you think,
especially in the Tippet murder, convinced you that Oswald was
the shooter.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Well, the physical evidence in the eyewitness testimony. One of
the guys that I interviewed was an eyewitness, Ted Calloway.
I thought he was the best eyewitness to the shooting,
and he actually didn't see the shooting. He saw Oswald
fleeing the scene. So he had eleven people that either
saw Oswald do the shooting, there were three of them,
and then the rest of them saw him fleeing the
immediate area, you know, within a block or two of

(07:51):
the shooting scene. And Ted Calloway was a used car salesman.
He was a block away. He heard the five pistol shots.
He was US Marine during World War Two. He was
on Irojimas served to guadal Canal. I mean this guy
had been in combat and he was a pistol instructor
on the pistol range during the Korean and War. So

(08:13):
this guy knew the difference between a pistol shot and firecrackers.
He immediately identified these five shots. And this was the
interesting part. He said I remember the cadence because it
reminded me of Morse code. It was like it was
like bang bang bang bang bang, So in Morsecore that
would be dash dash dot dot dot, And that's why

(08:37):
he remembered that. So here I am talking to him
in nineteen eighty three about this and he's remembering it
like of course it was yesterday, and he described that
cadence and I thought that that's a pretty astute observation. Anyway,
Oswald comes running down the street toward him, and it
is only about fifty six feet away. He's across the
street as he's fleeing, and Ted didn't know what was

(08:57):
going on. He saw him running with the gun in
a raised pistol position, so you're holding the pistol up
like this, and he thought he was. Ted Calloway thought
that Oswald was possibly a police undercover detective or something.
He yells across the street to him, hey man, what
the hell is going on? And Oswald realized he was
drawing attention to himself, kind of slowed up, turned toward

(09:19):
Calloway and kind of shrugged his shoulders and said something
that Callaway couldn't quite understand, and then kind of slowed
to a fast walk as he tucks the gun in
his belt, and Calloway of course runs down to where
he had heard the shots fired and discovers here's a
police car and a policeman laying shot to death in
the street. So I thought he was and Ted Calloway,

(09:44):
without seeing Oswald's picture in the paper or on television,
went down that night. So within three or four hours
of the shooting, he's down there picking Oswald out of
a lineup. Said absolutely positively that was him. And there
were a lot of eyewitness is like But I found
his testimony in sixty four of the Warran Commission, and

(10:04):
I talked to him twice in eighty three and ninety six.
His story is virtually identical. And as you know, people
that make stuff up, they can't remember what they lied about.
Nothing to change the details. But now his story was
pretty spot on. Minor changes changes in the sense of
adding detail that wasn't previously given. But he was a

(10:26):
really good eyewitness. And then the other thing was is
they always talked about being framed by the police by
switching these shells that they found, So Oswald discarded the
shells at the scene. They recovered four, and because a
policeman named Gerald Hill had gone on the radio between

(10:48):
the time of the shooting in Oswald's capture and described
these shells as being automatics. And then, of course they
turned out to be thirty eight specials, which are not
automatics and are fired in a revolver, not an automatic weapon.
Suspicions were raised at oh, maybe the cops switched the shells. Look,
they're describing them as automatically. There's Gerald he was a
police officer. What he doesn't know what an automatic shell

(11:11):
looks like. He doesn't know the difference. That was the question,
And of course I went about trying to answer these questions.
Rather than just ask the question, let's find out the answer.
So I had interviewed Gerald Hill, and it turned out
that he didn't know where the shells were actually found.
They had actually been recovered by a eyewitness given to
another patrolman, and then the patrolman's now showing Gerald Hilly's

(11:33):
in a cigarette package, an empty cigarette package, and he
didn't know that the shells had been picked up right.
He thought they were covered right at the side of
the car, which in automatic would He checked the shells
and they'd be found right there. He didn't know they'd
been actually transported another one hundred feet to the corner
and dumped in some bushes, and so not really looking

(11:57):
at the shells, not examining them in any real manner,
just looking in the package, seeing shells and thinking that
they had been found right at the car went on
the radio and said they were automatics, and of course
they weren't. So the questions were raised over the years,
many people about these shells. So I went to the

(12:18):
National Archives. No one had ever done that. I went
to the National Archives that brought a photographer with me,
and we were going to photograph the markings, the police
markings in the shells. One of the things that raised
suspicions was that the patrolman that I just referred to
that had the shells and showing them to Gerald Hill,
he said, I believe I marked them. He said he
couldn't swear that he marked them, but he thought he

(12:39):
might have marked them. And then he described putting his
initials JMP into the inside of the shell lip and
so I went there. Of course, during the warm Commission testimony,
he said I can't find them. So everybody thought, oh,
they switched the shells. That's why he can't find his mark.
So I go to the National Archives. We're looking at
the shells. I photographed them are in my book. And

(13:02):
as it turns out, if you know anything about firearms,
a thirty eighth shell, the opening is only about a
quarter of an inch in diameter and acrossed, and so
the markings were only made in the first let's say,
eighth of an inch inside because you can't see down
in there any further, you can't get a pen or

(13:23):
anything in there to make a mark or scratch a mark.
And also nobody put three in it. There's not room
to put three initials. When police mark shows, they put
a mark that they could recognize as something they had done.
It could be a single letter of an initial, It
could be just an ax, it could be whatever mark
they would be able to identify. So I believe that

(13:44):
Joe Poe, which was the JMP, I don't think he
ever marked the shells. There's no evidence he ever marked
the shells, and there was no actual reason for him
the mark the shells. The crime scene officer George Dowdy,
the captain of the crime lab, was there at the scene.
He turned the shell over to him. Doubt he could
have easily went and testified he had said I got

(14:04):
these from Poe. Po would have said I got them
from the eyewitness, and there's your chain of custody. So
this idea that everybody needs to mark these shells, this
is the stuff you used to see on television in
Perry Mason. Right, there's an old reference, but a good one,
but a good one. So anyway, I you know, I
discovered that photographed the shells and the marks. But here's

(14:27):
the main thing that I discovered is that two of
the four shells, the chain of custody is solid and
those are those are marked by the officers who had them.
And so the only reason they had suspicion was because
Poe didn't supposedly mark the shells, and it doesn't seem
to be evidence that he did. But this raises the question,

(14:49):
all right, so if the cops switched the shells, why
did they not switch all four? Why would they only
switch these two and not these two? So the whole
idea of shells being switched doesn't make any sense for me.
That sort of solidified, Okay, that removes this this key
question in the chain of evidence. And you know, let's

(15:09):
face it, Osweald caught red handed with the gun that
was used to fire those shells in his hand at
the Texas Theater just forty five minutes after the Tippit shooting.
So you know, the evidence is very strong against Oswald.
Absolutely no question in my mind that he shot the
police officer. And of course that raised the question, well,

(15:31):
if you weren't involved in the Kennedy assassination, then why
are you shooting this police officer in cold blood, in
broad daylight in front of screaming witnesses. I mean that
shows somebody who's desperate not to be arrested.

Speaker 1 (15:42):
Now I agree with that, and I know there were
also several witnesses claimed that Tippet was killed by two men,
not just one. And so first of all, just being
able to interview a witness had to be pretty xt
out there standing and exciting as.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yes, it was. And you know, you have to realize
that when I was interviewing these people, this was early on,
That's what I meane my research. So I was I
was thinking that some of these people could be involved
in the big conspiracy, So I would I would arrange
my questions so that the question I thought might get

(16:24):
them to hang up the phone on me would be
the last question I would ask, So that way I
could get most of the answers I was looking for.
As it turned out, most of these people, Tony, you'd
start talking to them and you would recognize the personality
type as being like, Oh, that's like my uncle Jim,
or oh that's like my grandpa, And so immediately the

(16:46):
idea that these guys are all involved in some intricate,
grand conspiracy where they're all working together to hide the truth,
it melts away. It's just, you know, it's just you
realize that what you used to believe was a lot
of ubbish.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
No, no, for sure. And how did you determine or
these witnesses have said there was two people? How did
you clear that up?

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Well, first off, there is only one person that ever
said there's two witnesses, got it? Everyone else described one
shooter and one person fleeing the scene. So we had
eleven eye witnesses, one shooter, one person fleeing the scene.
And the thing was is that each eyewitness they picked
up the story of the fleeing man. So, in other words,

(17:34):
one witnesses sees him leave the car and run around
the corner. Then you have a cab driver. He sees
them run from the corner down toward Ted Calloway. Then
Ted Calloway picks up and here comes a guy toward
him and he goes around the next corner. So you
have overlapping witnesses that are describing a single person. Unless
you believe that you have multiple people materializing and you're

(17:57):
watching just your sequel and then they disappear and then
another other individual. You know, you can come up with
all kinds of crazy ideas. Now there's only one witness,
and this witness is one of the furthest from the scene.
Her name was Aquila Clemens. There's very little known about
her story, and there was an early researcher who went

(18:19):
down there and secretly recorded her. Had a tape recorder
in her purse and recorded this woman. And that's the
only recording we really have other than she was innfilmed
by Mark Lane and his film rushed to judgment. But
that interview was conducted based on this earlier audio recording.
In other words, the questions were devised from that and

(18:40):
it's a very convoluted story. But you're not even sure
the woman she lived the two doors down across the street,
and about one hundred and more than one hundred and
fifty feet because that was to the corner. Then you
got two more lots, so that's another thirty sixty feet,
so you're talking close to about two hundred and ten
feet away. And we're not sure was she on the

(19:02):
porch when the shooting happened. Did she hear the shots
and then come out onto the port. Not really sure
whether she actually saw the shooting or heard the shots
and then came out and saw the aftermath. But in
her descriptions, she describes one man fleeing the scene and
coming toward her and going down Patent, But then she
said the other person was running in the opposite direction,

(19:23):
which of course doesn't match anything other than there was
an eyewitness who had come out, had heard Helen Markham,
one of the eyewitnesses who was screaming come outside. He
was standing precisely where Aquilla Clements said. There was this
second person, and he, then, she said, ran away from
her down tenth Street. But if he had come out

(19:48):
and walked a house or two toward the intersection, toward
Helen Markham, who was screaming and he was responding to
that to hear what she was screaming about or whatever,
and then turn its a running back toward his house.
That would certainly fit exactly what Aquila Clemens is inscribing. So,
you know, some of these stories grow legs over the years,

(20:09):
and this one certainly has where when you get right
down to it, there's not a whole lot there that
you can really bite into. And then ultimately her claim
is overruled, if you will, by eleven other eyewitnesses whose
story does fit sort of together and debunks basically what

(20:29):
she's saying. So, no, there was there's only one shooter,
and there isn't another accomplice that's nearby.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
You know, one thing I do appreciate what we've done
is majority of the conversations that I've had with people
that we've talked about the conspiracy theory is the actual
event that of the assassination of Kennedy and then the
assassination of Lee R. Harvey Oswald. So there's a big

(20:57):
timeline in between that we don't really talk about. And
one thing that you did, you analyze the timeline between
Kennedy's assassination and Tippi and murder in pretty pretty good detail.
So what was the most compelling fact that ruled rules
out alternative suspects in that narrow window? Because you know,

(21:22):
we've heard the Grassy Knoll, We've heard so many different things. What,
in your opinion, in your research, how do we rule
out a lot of other potential suspects.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Are we talking about the Kennedy assassination as a whole or.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
From from the time Yeah, from the time that he
was assassinated to Tippin'. So like you said, we we
kind of ruled out the second shooter of Tippin' because
maybe she just walked out and saw somebody running because
of the shot instead of being part of this. So

(21:58):
in that timeline, what, what is a fact that we
can kind of rule out? There was nobody else after
the fact of Kennedy being shot until tippid because there
was no other witnesses anywhere else saying that, like you said,
what Tippin' there was a third person or two people,

(22:22):
So all that all that has been ruled out, not
just you, but other even other researchers. Correct, there has
not been any other suspects after the Kennedy assassination.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Well, there's no other suspects other than Oswald. You know,
you can go out in the street right now and
ask somebody what do you think about the Kennedy assassination?
Conspiracy or not?

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Then will say conspiracy, Well, yes, for sure.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Will say conspiracy. And then you say, well, okay, so
who did who was behind it? And everybody has their favorite,
you know, villain, it's the CIA, it's Big Oil, it's LBJ,
it's the Cuban exiles, whoever. And then you ask them
the next question. They can't answer this one, And that
question is so what's the connection between that group and Oswell?
And they can't answer it because Oswell was a loner.

(23:12):
He was really the first sociopath. We would recognize him
today as a typical mass shooter. Somebody who's been disenfranchised
their whole life, been kicked around, feels that they haven't
been given their due, that there's somebody to be reckoned
with that sort of personality. And for me, talking about

(23:33):
the timeline, the thing that rules out other people really
is the timeline is the chronology itself. When you put
things I found in doing research, when you put things
in chronological order, a lot of things suddenly melt away.
Things that seem suspicious suddenly aren't that suspicious at all.
And in this case, things are happening so fast it's unbelievable.

(23:55):
For instance, I'm working on a really lengthy project right
now that's taken about about ten years into this thing,
which is putting together a compendium of all the films
and photographs that were taken from the time the presidential
limousine drives into Dealey Plaza, all the way through the
entire weekend, right all the way through Jack Ruby shooting Oshald,
all the broadcast films, everything, and putting in chronological order,

(24:20):
which is sort of a fun puzzle to get involved with.
But one of the things that you find out is
how quick everything happens. Do you know that nobody even
ran toward the Grassy Knoll till about thirty seconds after
the shooting. And what precipitated that was a Dallas police
officer who parked his bike at the curbside and started

(24:40):
running up there, and then people started running up to
see what he was running up after, and then people
started running after those people to see what they were
running up there after. So you had this whole conglomerate
of spectators running and most of them don't even know
why they're running. They're just thinking something's about to happen,
and I want to be there. So they run up
to the corner of the fence, and within two and

(25:00):
a half minutes that the sheriff's deputies that have run
up there, along with the police arriving about They started
about thirty seconds after the shooting, and they all arrived
there within a minute or so. But within two and
a half minutes of being up there, they immediately rule
out there's nothing here, there's nothing here to and by
then there are other spectators coming up saying, look, I

(25:21):
saw a rifle in this window and this building over here.
So they began to refocus, and within three minutes they're
now focused on the Texas school Book Depository. So the
idea that the police ran up there and there was
this big, long investigation before they realized that there was
no shooter or that there was no evidence of a shooter,

(25:42):
which gave the shooter plenty of time to get a
wet No, none of that happened. This thing, This stuff
happened fast, and then you have the entire story of
Oswald himself, the most politically astute person easily that's employed
at this building. Here's the president of the United States
is going to drive right by everybody in the building

(26:04):
at lunch and they go out to watch this happen.
And he doesn't. I mean, if there's one guy that
should be going out there too, if he hated Kennedy
to boo him when he drives by, and if he
liked him to cheer him when he drives he doesn't
do any of that. Not only that, but he's not
with anyone else, so he has no alibi for the
time of the shooting. And then, and this is the

(26:26):
thing that got all the police keyed up, he leaves
the building almost immediately. Now, you know, when a fire
truck pulls down your street and pulls over three doors down,
everybody comes out and goes over there and hangs out,
and they hang out until they find out what happened
and what's going on and what happened to Dailey Plaza. Well,
that's exactly what happened. You have people in the immediate area,

(26:48):
those a couple of blocks there pour into that plaza
and they're all hanging out. There's tons of films and
photos that show all this, not all those people were
there at the time of the shooting. It was actually
a sparse out at the time of the shooting, but
it filled up immediately because the look he lose show up.
And that's what happens. What does oswelld do. He doesn't
come outside and hang out with the look he lose.

(27:10):
I mean, even if he's inside backing in some boxes
to fill an order, which is what he was employed
to do, and he missed the shooting, you would think
he would naturally come out to see what happened.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
But no.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
He leaves the building within three minutes, walks up the
street about six blocks, stops a bus that's coming in
the opposite direction, and not at a bus stop. He
stops a bus in the middle of the block, gets
on the bus. He's on the bus only a couple
of minutes when it gets snarled up in the traffic
that's now backing up from the assassination scene. A woman
gets off takes a transfer because she's going to miss

(27:44):
her her train ride at Union station. Osweald comes up
right behind her also asks for a transfer. This becomes
a key point in the tip of shooting. Too. Leaves
the bus, walks several blocks south to the Greyhound bus
station and grabs a taxi to take him home to
his room. Let me just stop right there. Oswald didn't drive,
didn't have a car. He was a very frugal person,

(28:07):
and he rode public transportation religiously. Him stopping to take
a cab home would be like you or me calling
a limousine service at the end of the day and
taking that home, so highly unusual and certainly showing signs
of flight. He then has the cab driver not drop
him at his room. He has him drive him past

(28:28):
his room and about three or four blocks south he
has him drop him off, so there's signs of deception.
He doesn't want the cabby to remember where exactly he
dropped this guy off, or that it related to that
rooming house. Oswald then doubles back, runs into his room
past the landlady, or not the landlady, the housekeeper, and

(28:49):
she says, wow, you sure on a hurry. Didn't say anything,
which was not unusual, he rarely talked, goes in his room.
She says, he's in there just long enough to grab
a jacket, and by his own admission, he told the
police he grabbed his pistol puts it in his belt
and leaves the rooming house. About twelve to thirteen minutes later,
he's gunning down JD. Tippett on that side street on

(29:13):
tenth Street in Oakcliff, which is only about a block
or so from the only bus stop where that bus
transfer he had in his pocket that he took earlier
was good for and that bus would have taken him
south out of town. He could have grabbed a Greyhound busy,
had just enough money, and he could have made it
to the Mexico border. Now nobody knows if that's what

(29:34):
was his plan. For some reason, he never made good
the bus transfer, But that's just an interesting fact that
fits in there. He guns down the police officer. Cops
pour into the area searching for the cop killer. Oswell
manages to slink his way down the street about six
blocks slips into the Texas Theater. Now, right before that,
he slips into this vestibule of a shoe store, and

(29:56):
he's feigning interest in the shoes and the sirens are
screaming find him. He's looking over his shoulder and the
shoe store manager, Johnny Brewer, is about twenty years old.
He thinks, wow, that is acting a little suspicious, and
after the cops do a U turn and speed off
in the other direction, Ozwald looks over his shoulder and
goes in the opposite direction. So the shoe store manager
comes out under the sidewalk, and now he's looking at

(30:16):
Oswald walking up the street toward the Texas Theater. It's
about one hundred feet up the street. Now, in the meantime,
the ticket taker has come out of the box office
and she's stepped out to the curb and she's looking
up the street in the direction where a police car
has just gone, and she's thinking he's the siren who's
winding down. She's thinking he's stopping right up the street.
So now Oswald's in between these two people, and Johnny

(30:38):
Brewer just happens to see him slip into the theater
behind her back, so he knew the ticket taker Julia
Postal Brewer walks up the street. He said, hey, that
guy buy a ticket earlier, and she realizes that she
remembers out of her peripheral vision a guy coming up
the street, but he never passed her, and now she
realizes he must have gone in the theater. So of

(31:00):
course they go in to make sure that no one's
left the building. I say they. Johnny Brewer goes in,
he comes back out and says, no, I think he's
still in there. I can't see him, but I think
he's still in there. So they call the cops. And
that's the reason that police come down there, because they think,
now I talk about they, I'm talking about Julia Postal
and Johnny Brewer. Brewer said that he had heard on

(31:21):
the radio that an officer had been shot in Oakcliff
and so he thought it might be involved with that.
Julia Postole didn't know about the cops shooting and thought
it had to do with the presidential assassination. So that's
why the police storm in there. But now look at
Oswald's actions, all these desperate things, And one of the
things people point to is that before he left the building,

(31:43):
you know, he was encountered Oswald in a second floor
lunch room by a police officer that was in the motorcave.
Do you know the story, Oh, tell me about that one.
Marion Baker was a police officer riding in the motorcade.
And so he's back on Houston Street as the Limosy
interns the corner the shots are fired. He looks ahead.
He's looking at the face of the book depository. He

(32:03):
sees pigeons fly off the roof, so he thinks the
gunman is shooting from up on the roof, so he
guns his motorcycle toward the front entrance. Runs into the
front entrance. The building manager Roy Truly follows him. He says,
how do I get to the roof? Roy Truly says,
follow me. They go kitty corner to the opposite corner
of the northwest corner of the building, and there's two

(32:25):
freight elevators there. Truly is pushing the button trying to
get the freight elevators to come down. If you leave
the gate open and you push the button, they'll automatically
come down. But somebody's left the gate open on the
fifth floor, so they won't come down automatically. He's hollering
up the shaft, Hey close the gate. Fine, he says,
let's just take the stairs. So they start up the
stairs and as they round the second floor landing, Roy

(32:46):
Truly is ahead of the police officer. As the officer
steps up with a second floor landing, he spots this
movement through a little window that leads into a vestibule
and it's just some movement moving away from him, so
he draws his gun, goes in there. And the vestibule
is immediately adjacent to a lunch room, and here's Oswald
standing there at a coke machine. He he apparently has

(33:06):
just walked in, hasn't got the coke yet, and the
cop pulls a gun and he's got it on him,
and he says, come here, and Oswald looks a little surprised.
He comes toward him, and by then Roy truly realizes, hey,
the CoP's not following me. He doubles back, comes in
behind the cop. He's looking over his shoulder. He sees
Osway's no, he's okay, he works here, so he kind
of vouches for Oswald unknowingly, and then the two truly

(33:29):
in the cop continue on to the roof. Oswald then
gets the coke, exits the lunch room through that little
vestibule into an outer office, and a woman who's a
secretary has been watching the parade, comes up to her
desk just as Oswald's coming into the room and says
there's been shots fired at the president. He kind of
mumbled something and he leaves. Now we believe he left

(33:51):
the building within sixty seconds of that encounter. But what
people point to is that encounter with the police officer.
Oswald seems surprised. The cops said, he wasn't out of breath,
he seemed calm, so he didn't really think and once
the Roy Trulla, the manager, vouched for him, he didn't
think anything of it. And so the conspiracy folks like
the point, and having been one, see I sort of

(34:14):
know where all the skeletons are buried. I know what
all the arguments are. So they say, well, look how
calm he was. How could he then shoot up? I mean,
he's encountered by a cop. Forty five minutes later, you're
seeing guns down this police officer in a panic. How
is that possible? He was calm ninety seconds after this
encounter in the electrom They timed it and figured it

(34:34):
happened about ninety seconds after the assassination. How could os
Will be calm ninety seconds after the shooting and then
panic forty five minutes later. Well, think about it. Oswald
hasn't been watching television or listening to the radio like
everyone else. He doesn't know what's happened in the last
forty five minutes. He doesn't know as somebody. Did somebody

(34:56):
see me in the window? Did one of the employees
report me? Did the cop that I encountered in lunchroom
did he has he already reported me? Have they gone
to the file and found my address? Are they looking
for me? Are they staked out of my house? He
has no idea. So when the police car is approaching
him on Tenth Street, he has no idea. Is this guy,

(35:17):
this guy know who I am? Is this guy looking
for me specifically? And when JD. Tippett pulls over and
then gets out of the car to question him, Oswald
does panic because consciousness of guilt. In his own mind,
he feels guilty, and so he's thinking, this cop is
going to arrest me, and I can't let that happen.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
I was curious why Tippett chose Lee Harvey to question
to stop.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Nobody really knows. Obviously Tippett is the only one who.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Had Really that's the problem we want now, And in.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
The warrant commission they speculate as well. There was a
description that fit Oswald, you know, five ten and fifty
pounds slender bill, but that's you know, the conspiracy folks argued, well,
that fits a lot of people, and they're right, that
would fit a lot of people. That can't be the
only reason. Now, in my book, I ran across an
interesting thing with the witnesses of the Tippet shooting. Prior

(36:17):
to Tippett pulling Oswald over, you had a numerous witnesses
it said Oswald was walking west on Tenth Street and
Tippet is driving east, so they're coming toward each other.
Then you had another group of witnesses It said, as
Tippet is pulling his car over, Oswald is walking east,
so they're both moving in the same direction, and Tippet

(36:38):
is overtaking Oswald. And so for years people were arguing, okay,
so which is it. The Warrant Commission said it was
the former that Tippet's overtaking Oswald, he's walking east on
tenth Street. And then you had a lot of conspiracy
people say, no, it's the guy walking west, and that
means it can't be Oswald because he hasn't got time
to get from his roominghouse to the some point west

(37:00):
and to be coming back and so forth and so on.
So he ended up with two camps and it occurred
to me. Wait, wait a minute. Now, the moment when
the witnesses are saying that there's a change in direction
occurs just as tipp is pulling the guy pulling over
toward the man walking on the sidewalk. What if both
groups of witnesses are correct, you don't eliminate one group. No,

(37:22):
they're both right. The guy is walking west and as
they're coming toward each other, Oswald spots the approaching squad
car Tippet and does a quick about face. Ste's walking
in the opposite direction, which would be something that would
look suspicious. So in addition to the meager description, then

(37:43):
you have this overt action that appears suspicious. And then,
according to the witnesses Oswald, they're not sure to Tip
it call him to the car and he'd come over
on his own volition. Not sure. He walks over to
the passenger side and he's leaning down. They have it
like a ten second conversation. There's an open window and
the kind of talking, and then Tip gets out of
the car. Well, when Oswald bent down and looked through

(38:06):
the car window, he's got a zipper jacket on. He's
been double timing in the last thirteen minutes to make
almost nine tenths of a mile. He'd be sweating and
his hair would be wet, and that would look suspicious
to an officer who would be thinking, well, why would
you just take your jacket off if you're if you're
so hot, you're sweating, why would you just add carry
the jacket. So it's those kinds of things that police

(38:28):
officers are trained to watch for. And I think I
don't think Tippett thought he's stopping the presidential accession obviously,
or he would have. He would have been ready for it, right,
and he was. He was caught off guard.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Well, one thing I do, because time is flying. But
one thing I want to talk about is that the
three D recreation of the crime scene. If you don't mind, Yeah,
you sent me a picture of the actual motorcade of
President Kennedy and Governor I can't remember his last name, but.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Governor Conley Mccondi's Governorley. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
So can you explain how that's.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Well, that's the single bullet. Yes, that's the same in
the single bullet theory, which to me, you know, we
use the words theory in an hypothetical hypothesis interchangeably and
we should. And a theory is something that you're theorizing
happened with no real evidence to go one way or
the other. An hypothesis is something that you suspect might

(39:31):
have happened, so let's look at the evidence and test it,
and then you either rejected or not. And in my case,
what I did is that I came up with this
idea of doing a three D recreation of the Suppruter film.
This back in nineteen ninety three. I had rudimentary computer
tools to work with at the time, but I had
had the idea years before there was even computers available,

(39:53):
because the handheld nature of the Suppruter film made it
very difficult to see what the hell was actually happening
in the film. And I actually they thought years ago
of getting two friends, sitting them in a folding chair
and then taking the Supruti film. I had a little
Super eight viewer and I could crank it frame by frame,
and I was going to pose my two friends in
the positions of Kennedy and Connley and then film it

(40:14):
with a single frame eight millimeter camera. And I was
basically going to reanimate the Zubruta film frame by frame
and then I'd be able to play it back very
smoothly and see what motion is happening in real time,
what that would look like. Of course, I never ended
up doing that. It was just an idea. So you
flash forward ten years and all of a sudden, here's
a computer program that would allow me to do it

(40:35):
even better. I could actually bring in each frame of
the Zupruteri film and kind of look through it like
a transparency, and I could align it to three dimensional
models built that match the actual sizes of what we're
seeing in the film, and it could be exact right exact,
within a tolerance where the error factor wouldn't really make
any difference, wouldn't change anything. And so I ended up

(40:57):
doing that. It took six months to build the models,
and I think it was six weeks actually align all
four hundred and eighty six frames of this recruiter film
to the model. But when I got done, I remember
it was a Wednesday night. When I had enough information,
I thought I got enough. Right now, I could do
a trajectory analysis and determine whether the single bullet worked,

(41:17):
and if it did, where did the bullet come from?
Because you know, even at the time, again, I was
still a conspiracy theorist, so I'm thinking, you know, it
might go back to the Dell text building or the
record building, who knows. So it was about eleven o'clock
on a Wednesday night. For some reason that sticks in
my mind. I don't remember the date. I remember. I
know I can't go to sleep now until I do this.

(41:39):
So I sat up for another two hours and set
up a line and basically projected it from Connie's back
wound backward through Kennedy's throat wound. So those are your
two points, and then extended that line rear word and
see where it falls, and it went right back through
the six floor snipersness window. Believe me, I was more
floored than anyone. And of course naively thinking at that

(42:02):
time there were these forums just starting up, there were
BBS boards. It's social that you could connect with people.
I thought, wow, people are going to read these conspiracy theories.
They'll be really interested in this finding because you know,
now we can you know, there might still be a conspiracy,
but you can forget about the single bullet. It's actually
it's actually true. Yeah, that was Naivedale. So I said,

(42:24):
I put this out there, and oh, my god, they
just hammered me, and they're still hammering me today. They
don't know what they're going to say.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
You're part of you, You're part of your.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Oh, yes, part of it. I sold out for money
and just all kinds of nutty stuff. And the thing is, Tony,
none of these people ever contacted me or bothered to
come over and look at what I actually did. Just
all these accusations based on falsehoods, things about oh, he
inflated the size of the figures, he's changing on the fly,

(42:53):
he's changing the size and the relationships.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
That would take even more work. It was of work
just to do it the correct way, let alone to
fake it. And what would be the point in faking it.
So anyway, it turns out that that was one of
the main things that convince me personally that there's one
shooter in the plaza. And of course, you know, what
I did is just a visual representation of what the

(43:20):
Worm Commission had done in nineteen sixty four with the
forensic and the medical evidence. Look, most murders are not
captured on film. People think the Zapruder film adds to
our knowledge, and it actually detracts because It allows people
to speculate about things because the film is silent, as
most people know, so you don't hear the gunshots, which means, okay,

(43:40):
now we have to base the shooting sequence on what
we think are the reaction times of the men as
they're at and of course there's all kinds of dispute.
Even calmly couldn't pinpoint the moment he's hit. And so
all the Zapruder film does is is add questions. It can't.
You've got a very narrow window that you're looking through.

(44:03):
And so the three D model that I did, I
thought would help open that up. We can now move
the camera Officer Bruder's pedestal. We can now view the
shooting sequence in three dimensions from any standpoint. We can
look through the eyes of any particular eyewitness. We can
be the sniper in the book depository, we can be
the supposed Grassy Knoll gunman and see what he would
have seen. And so when you start doing that, you realize, okay,

(44:27):
this doesn't work medically or forensically. All the shots are
shown forensically to have been fired from behind both Kennedy
and Conley, and the physical evidence the ballistics evidence. The
shells are found underneath the snipers and this window. Three shells.
They are fired in the rifle that they found. And

(44:47):
you know, twenty minutes later on the sixth floor, that
rifle was bought and owned by Lee Harvey Oswald. He's
photographed with it. You know, now we've got a whole
new debate. But you have Donia's is. The Internet has
kept a lot of the stuff alive. So you get
the newcomers to the case. They're stumbling on these old
arguments and they don't know they've been debunked. And so

(45:09):
there they are making the arguments again that have been
debunked a thousand times. But so again I'm hearing that
the rifle, the backyard photos of Oswald, the rifle have
been faked once again. Now they're not faked, they're real.
His wife took them. That's his rifle, he ordered it,

(45:29):
he left the building. This is a clear cut case.
Is if this had not been a famous person being shot, right,
some craze nut takes a rifle up at the building
one day and fires a traffic moving below him, this
would have been an open and shutcase a long time ago.
But because it's a president of the United States. And
because Oswald is such a waif, such an insignificant figure,

(45:53):
of course he did this, and he's become a significant figure,
has led us to this point where it's sixty two
some years later and here we are, we're still talking
about this, and one hundred years from now they'll still
be talking about it. All right.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
So I think I think the you know, the assassination
and Tippet being killed kind of goes together. I think
what really threw people into the even the conspiracy theory
more and I want to know your thoughts, is when
Jack Ruby steps in and kills Oswald. Then it's like, okay,

(46:34):
they there's a reason why Jack Ruby did this right
in front of the cameras, right next to the police,
to get rid of maybe, you know, somebody spilling the
beans on a bigger.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yeah, we've got a silence Oswald. And of course that's
what everybody thought in nineteen sixty four when that happened.
That's why everyone jumped at the conclusion that it was
a conspiracy. And you know what, they thought, it was
a conspiracy of Ruby and oz together to kill Kennedy.
And then Ruby has to silence Oswald. Now when you
start to examine the old thing. Of course, just on
its face, it makes no sense. Oswald's been talking behind

(47:10):
closed doors for forty eight hours. You don't wait forty
eight hours and then kill the guy. But needeth to say,
the main piece of evidence against that whole theory, the theory
that Oswald's in on it with Oswald is first off,
there's no link between the two men. But more important,
in terms of the timing of Oswald shooting I'm sorry,

(47:32):
of Ruby shooting Oswald. The timing is such that it
can't be planned. Ruby goes down to the Western Union
office to send a twenty five dollars money order to
one of his strippers, and it's way down there. He
passes the entrance and he sees a lot of activity

(47:53):
and thinks, well, maybe they haven't transferred Oswald yet. And
so if he's a hit man for the mob or whoever,
and he's there to kill Oswald, he wouldn't have been
sitting in bed at ten thirty when the cops had
announced be here by ten. And you won't miss anything.
If you're a hit man, you don't miss the window.
So instead Ruby sends the money order, which is timestamped

(48:13):
eleven seventeen. He then walks and it takes him three
four minutes to get down into the basement, and then
Oswald's coming out right then he's in the basement less
than thirty seconds when Oswald makes his appearance and is
then shot, as Ruby himself said, I couldn't have timed
it better if I'd have planned it, because there's no
way to plan that. So then of course she had

(48:35):
speculation about, Okay, the cops are phoning, they're gonna take
off Ruby. I had college students one year. I was
doing a lecture and I said, and they said, oh,
I got a question. How come they didn't won don't
they just know this is back in the pag your days?
Why don't they paide Ruby? It's like it's nineteen sixty three,
people wake up technology. The only way to get hold
of Ruby is hed have to call a payphone. There

(48:56):
are no payphone. He's waiting in line at the Western
Union office behind someone. I mean, if this, if the
person in front of him takes two minutes or thirty
seconds more, he's going to miss the shooting. So and
then Ruby described the activity of the police car leaving
that coming up the wrong way on the entrance ramp

(49:17):
described who was in the car within an hour of
the shooting, So how can he know that unless he
was he actually witnessed that and saw that. So anyway,
the totality of the evidence is that Ruby was a hothead.
He was a hothead and a kind of a blabbermouth.
And I met one guy that knew him personally. He said,
if you told Ruby a secret at one end of

(49:38):
the block, he's I guarantee you by the time he
got to the other end of the block, he would
have told three people. So he's not the kind of
person that he would he would have trusted. I think
the mob. When I say the mob, he had some
connections with organized crime because he had a strip club
and the girls were run for organized crimes, so he

(49:59):
had a deal, but he was he wasn't a high
level hit man or anything. In fact, one mob short.
I think he even said, we wouldn't hire him to hit
an f and dog, you know. So it just, you know,
not the kind of person out But I understand why
people jumped to that conclusion at the beginning when it
first happened, because they didn't know the whole background.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Jack think if Jack Ruby would have I mean, I
think it still would have been there of the conspiracies,
but I think it wouldn't have been such a like
intense intense as it has been.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
And a lot of people forget that. You know, he
got congratulatory telegrams people Joe Citizen would send in thanks,
you did what I would have done. You know, there
are a lot of people in America that would like
to have gotten their hands on Oswall. And it turned
out that Jack Ruby just happened to be the guy
that did. Now I'm kind of smirking, but I'm smirking

(50:52):
at the idea, not the act. It was a terrible act,
what a dumb thing to do, and even the cops said,
you did and do us any favors by killing Oswald.
And I think a lot of what would have come
out at trial would have ended all the speculation, not
every minute piece of it, but a lot of it

(51:14):
would have gone by the wayside had there been the
trial that we needed. And I think Oswald would have
grandstand it. I think he would have eventually told why
he did it. And so because that motive is now
forever murky, I mean, we can guess what the motive
probably was, and it was something as simple as I'm
somebody to be reckoned with and I'm going to show you.

(51:37):
And opportunity presented itself in the Kennedy motor Gate, driving
past the building in which he worked. He took advantage
of that opportunity. And you know, people say, my god,
what a crazy thing. First, you know, a president writing
in an open car, that's the why would they do that.
It's like, no, you think it's crazy now because this happened, right,

(51:58):
That's why you think it's crazy now. But at the time,
nobody thought that was crazy. They thought it was maybe
a little dangerous, but nobody thought, and they're wireless imaginations
that somebody would do what Oswald did. So, yeah, Jack
Ruby didn't do anyone any favors by killing Oswald, And
if anything, he's perpetuated the very thing that he probably

(52:22):
hoped to eliminate, which was to pay back Oswald for
what he felt he did. And once again, taking justice
in your own hands is not a smart thing.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
No, And I know someone like yourself that's been working
on this subject for how many years thirty.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Forty oh, no, no, fifty fifty years, fifty plus. Yeah,
unfortunately fifty. And I don't wish this anyone, but I
do understand having got I tell people I've gone all
the way around the barn. You know, I start with
the idea of conspiracy anything most people, that's where you start,
because that's where most of the books are talking about.

(53:05):
But as you if you get past the books and
the magazine articles and go to the original sources, read
the original stuff, eventually you come back around and it's
like picking up sand on a beach. Eventually it all
runs through your hands and you end up with nothing.
And so everybody has to make their own journey. So
while I can appreciate people that are clinging to the

(53:25):
single bullet theory despite the evidence, I say, all right, great,
just stick with it, and I think you'll realize that
you're wrong.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
Is there anything left to like, any loose sands or
anything left unsolved in your mind about this? Because with
you know, with the new release of documents from the
Warrant Commission and other things.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
Yeah, well, let me say this about these new releases,
there's nothing in there. No I knew there were nine
million pages were released by nineteen seventy. You know, most
people don't notice all the warm commissioned stuff was released
by the end of sixty nine, and then the FBI
files were released over time, how selectivity, even more files

(54:14):
were generated and then released. The stuff they're releasing now
is really in the weeds. There's no they're not talking
about physical evidence, so there's no new stuff there. All
that stuff we know all that stuff, and so what
we've got is stuff really far in the weeds. You know,
the friend of a friend of a friend and his

(54:35):
Social Security number is blacked out, or you know, it's
stuff like that, or it's sources and methods that intelligence
agencies are still using. And in a lot of cases
they were in the Cuban exile community. A lot of
these antic astro Cuban types, they were young bucks at
the time. They were twenty years old, so they're potentially

(54:56):
still alive. You know, they might be in their mid eighties,
but there's still a lot and their families are still
in Cuba. So there's a lot of reasons to keep
some of the stuff secret. None of the stuff being
kept secret. A lot of these documents, we've actually seen
the documents, we just haven't seen the redaction. And it
turns out okay, it's a number, a code number, or

(55:20):
it's a social Security number. So the idea that, oh,
there's a smoking gun document still out there that's hidden,
or that we're going to discover, oh there was a
secret CIA operation that was running Oswalt, No, there's nothing
like that. You're not going to see that. And in fact,
even if there's ten thousand documents still left, you can't
undo the nine million pages of documents we already have. Right,

(55:43):
you already have this nine million page truth. You can't
undo that. You might color it, you might find little
things that we didn't know that give you maybe a
slightly different inkling of what was going on, But you're
not going to undo old truth about this. No, what
we know about the Kennedy assassination is pretty much historically ground.

(56:06):
In fact, he had one person, one shooter, Lee Harvey
Oswald did the shooting for reasons that will be forever
obscure his exact motive, although we can guess it was
definitely a political shooting. I don't think he just on
a lark, just shooting whoever happens to drive by. He's
shooting Kennedy because he thought. I think he viewed Kennedy

(56:29):
as being the arch nemesis of his hero Fidel Castro.
And I think in his twisted brain that he somehow
thought that he can become a hero of the Castro
Revolution by eliminating the president. But you know, as far
as the motive, that'll forever be obscure. But as far
as the mechanics of what happened, Tony, we know what happened.

(56:51):
We have known for a long time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Well, I hope people if they haven't read your book,
I hope they pick it up. It's with Malice Lee
Harvey Olswald and I can't read my.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
That's the murder of Officer JD.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
Tipp There we go.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
My.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
I didn't wear my glasses to read, so I couldn't.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
And that's that blue edition there was. There was a
very limited number that we're run. About five hundred copies
were printed in twenty thirteen for the fiftieth anniversary. They're
very hard to come by. I've yet to see even
one for sale on eBay. You do see the earlier edition,
the nineteen ninety eight release is sort of a burnt
orange cover, and you do see those come up from

(57:29):
time to time. But the blue cover, it's got one
hundred and fifty pages in addition to the first edition
that has the entire I had contacted the JD. Tippett family,
family photos, his whole backstory is in, so that edition
is really the one you want if you can find one.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
Well, I do appreciate you including Officer Tippet. I think
you know he deserves his moment also because you know,
he was just doing his job, doing his duty, and
unfortunately his life was taken. So, well, what's next? I
know you you're always doing something, So what's next for you?

(58:12):
What's what do you? Well?

Speaker 2 (58:14):
I'm working on I'm working on this compendium, which still
has a little bit to go, but I think it'll
be a useful tool for researchers in the future to
see how all these films and photos that you've seen
in every documentary and then some stuff you've never seen,
how this all fits together, and really, you if you

(58:34):
sit down and watch it a real time, ninety percent
of the stuff that we've seen in these documentaries goes
by in the first hour and a half after the shooting,
and you really, if you watch it in real time,
you really get a sense of Wow, this really was
a blur. You know, for the I've talked to many people, cops,
eyewitnesses that you know you're talking to them with twenty

(58:56):
thirty years after the fact, and you know you're asking
for these details couldn't possibly remember, but you know you're hoping,
and they inevitably describe it as wow, it's a bit,
it was a big blur. I mean, I have specific
moments that I remember, but it's like anything else, you know,
even your own memories, Tony. I mean, you probably could
tell me what you had for breakfast this morning, but

(59:17):
if I asked you what did you have for breakfast
a month ago, you probably couldn't tell me. And then
here I'm asking somebody, even though it was a traumatic event,
I'm asking them twenty or thirty years after the fact, Hey,
can we walk through this what you did that day?
Second by second? Well they really can't, but they do
remember interesting nodules that when you put them together with

(59:38):
everyone else's story, you sort of get this tapestry of
inter interwoven truth that does inform you about what really happened.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
So now I agree. I you know, thinking of things
where you know, when you're a kid and you break
your arm. I remember breaking my arm. But I don't
remember everything. I don't remember who was there, I don't
remember what I was wearing. There's a lot of things
that you just don't remember, but you do remember the
tragedy of it. So I think that's where a lot
of people probably hold on to the tragedy versus everything

(01:00:13):
else around it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
And history is interesting in this history easily one of
the most fascinating historic events, certainly in my lifetime.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
So well, Dale, thank you so much for being part
of truth be told. I so appreciate it. I hope
you come back again. I think i'd love to. You're
a great storyteller. By the way, I could sit there,
thank you you and just tell tell the stories because
I'm I feel like I'm watching a.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Documentary, hours and hours of more stories.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
So well, I appreciate you. And how do people find you?
I mean Instagram website.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
JD Tippet dot com is a website that I that's
devoted to the shooting of Officer tipp It his story.
So JD Tippitt dot com. JFK files dot com deals
with my computer work. And then there's JFK Files, a
blog spot where I have continuing blog articles that I

(01:01:09):
write and so you can keep up that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Way perfect, and so I'll put that in a show
notes so people can find you. Thank you, Dale, I
appreciate it and hope you come back. But everybody, please,
thank you so much for tuning in again here every
Friday three o'clock and we bring these amazing authors and
researchers and specialists to bring you history in from the

(01:01:35):
paranormal world and American history, world history that keeps on living,
and it's living through us by just acknowledging that you know,
these amazing things in our world happens every day and
so we appreciate the people that keep it going. But
until next time, I'm Tony Sweet. Please like, subscribe to

(01:01:56):
our YouTube channel, listen to us on Apple and Spotify,
and until next time, take care of yourself in each other.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Bye