July 18, 2025 • 51 mins
In this urgent and eye-opening episode of Truth Be Told, host Tony Sweet sits down with renowned ecologist and zoologist Dr. Gerardo Ceballos to explore one of the most alarming environmental crises of our time: the Sixth Mass Extinction.
Dr. Ceballos, a leading voice in biodiversity and conservation, breaks down the science behind the unprecedented loss of species we're witnessing across the globe—and why it matters far more than most people realize. Together, they discuss:
The causes behind the current mass extinction event
What it means for humanity's future
How climate change, deforestation, and pollution are accelerating the crisis
And what actions can still be taken to reverse the damage
This powerful conversation will challenge your perspective and leave you questioning: Are we truly running out of time?
📲 Subscribe now and join the conversation.
🔗 Follow us for updates:
Instagram: @theclubparanormal
Facebook: @clubparanormal
TikTok: @theclubparanormal
#MassExtinction #GerardoCeballos #BiodiversityCrisis #TruthBeToldPodcast #ClubParanormal #EnvironmentalAwareness #PodcastEpisode #SixthExtinction #ClimateCrisis #SpeciesLoss
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/truth-be-told-paranormal--3589860/support.
Dr. Ceballos, a leading voice in biodiversity and conservation, breaks down the science behind the unprecedented loss of species we're witnessing across the globe—and why it matters far more than most people realize. Together, they discuss:
The causes behind the current mass extinction event
What it means for humanity's future
How climate change, deforestation, and pollution are accelerating the crisis
And what actions can still be taken to reverse the damage
This powerful conversation will challenge your perspective and leave you questioning: Are we truly running out of time?
📲 Subscribe now and join the conversation.
🔗 Follow us for updates:
Instagram: @theclubparanormal
Facebook: @clubparanormal
TikTok: @theclubparanormal
#MassExtinction #GerardoCeballos #BiodiversityCrisis #TruthBeToldPodcast #ClubParanormal #EnvironmentalAwareness #PodcastEpisode #SixthExtinction #ClimateCrisis #SpeciesLoss
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/truth-be-told-paranormal--3589860/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Well, welcome back to Truth Be Told, where we uncover
the hidden truths, challenges and challenge conventional thinking, and dive
deep into the mysteries that shape our world. I'm your host,
Tony Sweet, and today we're tackling one of the most
urgent and alarming issues of our time, the sixth mass
extinction and are we running out of time? Joining me
(00:22):
is one of the world's leading voices in ecology and conservation,
doctor Gerardo Sabeos. He's a renowned zoologist whose groundbreaking research
has sounded the alarm on the accelerating loss of biodiversity
and the consequences we face if we don't act now.
In this episode, we'll explore what exactly is the sixth
(00:43):
mass extinction, Why are species disappearing at such an unprecedented rate,
and is human activity driving this crisis? And what can
still be done. This conversation isn't just for scientists or policymakers.
It's for all of us, because the fate of countless species,
eco systems, and even humanity itself is on the line.
Because you might hear something today that will change your
(01:05):
mind and the world. I'm your host, Tony Sweet, and
please welcome to the Truth Be Told Studios for the
first time, Doctor Gerardo Sebeos, Hello, Hello, well, welcome, welcome
to Truth Be Told. I appreciate you being here.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Thank you very much, Thank you very much to me.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Did I did I get your last name even close?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
It's Yesius, That's perfect.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
That's my country roots of trying to pronounce a Latino name, So.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I'll do the same when I pronounced the English foreign
last name song.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
At least I didn't use the l's. Well, I appreciate
you being here. And uh, I know this is a
topic that a lot of people have been talking about
for a while, and I'm just going to dive right in.
And you've been, you know, on the four front of
really sounding the alarm of what on what you and
many scientists now are calling the sixth mass extinction? And
(02:08):
when did you realize that we are facing a crisis
of this magnitude? And what was the moment like for
you as a scientist and just as a human being.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, I wasn't.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I have been interested in conservation and ecology for a
London time. You know, my parents said, since I was
a very young kid, I would say that I like
to I wanted to study animals. You know, when I
was around fourteen, I got a book an overl was
the Last Schemo Corleon and uh it really it was
(02:46):
an obel that talked about the last two Chemo Carlos
flying in the planet one day and then they mainly
stay alone for all his life, trying to find a
mad And it really when I read that, I got
very got to anxiety about thinking going out of my
neighborhood to another town, to another place, and I find
(03:06):
another human being. And so I started to study biology.
And since I was studying biologyme we knew there was
a problem with the extinction in the sense that the
many species would become an extin or local extin. But
I mean, nobody knew what was the urgency of the problem.
And actually many of my friends would say that, many
(03:27):
of the tens said, well, I don't work hard though
extinction is part of evolution, you know, evolution is basically
the relationship between extinction and especiation. In normal times, especiation
is higher than extinction, so there are more species to
be added. So it wasn't around two thousand and eight
(03:48):
when I was after doing as a vatical at Stanford
with my very good colleague polarly that we start to
discuss that, and one day I said, what about the
magnitude of extinction?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I will really this is normal or not? And the
problem that we will have is.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
That to be able to answer that question, you have
to know what was the normal rates of extinction in
the previous million years, you know, And there was not
that information. But anyway, we got there what all the
people have said and something, and we published a first
paper in twenty ten, you know, in a very small journal,
just to start with. And then we keep on working
(04:32):
and then we got a really nice data from Tony
Varnowski from Berkeley, a colleague of us, who published in
twenty eleven, and this paper on that we have estimated
the rate of extinction of mammals in the last few
million years. So it was like bingo, we have a golden.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Thing here.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So at that time, what we did we talked to
him and then all the other colleagues and I other
the data for all the vertebrates that had become extinct
in the last five hundred years, you know, since fifteen hundred.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
And to be honest, I knew, I knew.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I mean, I have a big expectation that what we
will find it was that the current extinction will be
higher than the extinction patterns in the last few million years.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And we did a.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Study and so the surprise was that it was much
much higher than we even expected. You know, I was
very surprised. On the one hand, we review the analysis
several times. We can't send the analysis to some of
our friends to split check it. We're not doing something wrong,
(05:46):
and an Tony Varnoski was part of our team. So
at the end the data was correct. And on the
one hand, so we decided to publish it and we
put up very I mean a various ramatic title, and
I remember that the journal said, well, the paper has
been accepted, but we don't like this kind of title
(06:07):
because we are scientists. And we said, well, I mean,
come on, guys, we are scientists, and as a scientist
we have to be careful not to say things that
are not based on dataime. But on the other hand,
will be unethical and ethical not to say the magnitude
of the problem. So they led us to have work
(06:27):
title and the title basically say that we have entered
the sixth mass extinction, and boom. It was amazing. It
was immediately took off in the in the news, in
the radio, in the.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Newspapers, TV, social media.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
It was really very impressive how many people, how many
audits become interested on the problem. So for once it
was very important then to realize that people were consum
learn about this problem. We all have been concerned by
that time, and most of the people knew about climate change,
(07:05):
but very few people understood understand at that time that
the extinction crisis could it was as bad as a
climate crisis. With the difference. We led the planet to
pull off for a few hundreds of millions of thousands years.
We will recover, it will lose all these species that
(07:28):
will never be again here.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
So you asked me, how do it I feel?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I felt incredibly On the one hand, it's very very difficult,
and one scientist, as you as a scientist, managed to
find out something that changed the paradigm, you know, like
in this case that we said this is not normal,
we have to be very worried about it, and so
so in that sense, it was like a rewarding that
we were able to put together very strong data set
(07:56):
and analysis and to be able to show that we
haven't your mass extinction. We're in a crisis at there's
such magnitude that could compare to the previous five mass extinction.
On the other hand, I felt like incredibly sad because
just in my mind, suddenly you you you think that
(08:19):
and you realize that the extinction problem is I mean,
there is a bad extinction problem. That extinction crisis is bad.
But suddenly you realize that it's much worse than you
were ever in mind. And at that time, let me
tell you something for me. Every time I will get
in the in the internet, in the an email saying
(08:42):
the doors regarding your paper, I was jumping because you
know we were, I mean they were literally everybody was
on top of trying to figure out we were right
or wrong. And on the one hand, I said, I
really hope that somebody shows that we were wrong. In
terms of a scientific career, it will be like a
bump in your scientific career. But in terms of the
(09:04):
importance and the relevance for humanity, for biodversity, would have
been wonderful to be proving wrong. But unfortunately it wasn't
that case. And after all, there were many other people
starting to do There were two criticisms once that we
were just starting and we couldn't know that this was
(09:26):
a mass extinction until the end of it. And the
second is that we use the extinction rate for mammals,
but probably they didn't apply to other organisms in the planet.
And then following five years we publish this. In twenty fifteen,
there were papers on micros, on fungi, on all kinds
of invertebrates and other vertebrates and plants, everything, all of
(09:50):
them shows the same patterns, and even some of them,
even most wars, for instance in land snails, the current
extinction crisis, the current extinction the animals that become extinct
in the last one hundred years who had taken eighty
thousand years or more, you know our paper, and we
(10:11):
use them more. We were like trying to use the
most conservative data and with the most conservative data, which
show that the species that have become extinct in one
hundred years, who had taken at least ten thousand years
to become extinct. That was the magnitude. That was the
big finding of the paper.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I have a couple thanks there. I mean, first of all,
you studied for five hundred years of extinction, so there
you may kind of the term extinction versus the other one.
I can't remember what you said, but it's like the buffalo,
(10:56):
the you know, the when uh, the white men came
to America in the Indians, you know, we pretty much
almost wiped out the buffalo in American buffalo. You know,
that was over hunting. What's what was the data from
the last five hundred years versus hunting, over hunting versus
(11:18):
environmental It sounds like the last hundred years have been
more the environment changing versus over hunting. Am I correct?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
This is this is exactly, This is exactly what was important.
If this was caused by natural causes, like environmental causes,
you know, not related to humans, then the extinction rate,
the current extinction race will be would have to be
similar to the extinction rate in the previous million years
where there were no humans here. That's exactly what was
(11:47):
important about this paper. That we have five hundred years
and we use five hundred years because the International Union
for Consideration of Nature started to.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Count.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
This is the official body that counts extinct and endangered
species in the planet, and they start in fifteen hundred
because the first written account of a species to become
extinct was in at the end of fifteen hundred.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
But yes, in myen this is a two.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
So on the one hand, this is what was so
important because we could prove that if the current extinction
rates were similar to what's happened in the last previous
million years, it will be obviously natural causes. So we
shouldn't we shouldn't worry with because we could do nothing.
(12:42):
I mean, we could do a few things to stop it,
but it will be natural. It will be a natural path,
the same thing that has happened in a few million years.
But if we look at that and then compared to
what's happened when we're humans, you know, started to have
a big impact, then it is basically this is what
the big the big issue, the big point of the
(13:04):
paper is showing that the massive extinction rates that has
started since fifteen hundred related to human activity. I mean
to when the presence of humans and activities become start
to become at the impact.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
The global at the global level. That was the critical issues.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
So we could say with certainty that this extinctions were
not caused by natural causes like change the natural changes
in climate or other things. Both they were related to
the presence of human and his activities.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
And that's the critical.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Point, and I'm I'm glad you pointed so for the
people who were and people who are not scientists. So
if we compare what happened in the previous million years,
there were no humans, you know, and basically for the
last sixty six million years that he has been ancient
rates who are low lower than speciation rates, so a
(14:05):
number of species has increased. In this Suddenly the humans
appear and we start to count the species that become extinct.
And then we compare to the what's happened in the
previous million years and found that indeed is because of
the human activities. And you say, discounting what are the
(14:25):
human activities? Very basically there are so many many things.
But we scientists we call like ultimate the ultimate couses
of extinction, a course by the human population growth where
too many and grow growing too fast. You know, we're
passing the carrying capacity of the planet of having too
many humans.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
The second thing is over consumption.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
We use too much things, especially societies and people who
are more affluent, use too many resources. And finally, technologists,
you know, our technologists. For instance, oil is very good
at ucing energy for us, but it's bad because it
produces gases that want the atmosphere, so that those are
(15:08):
the ultimate causes. And then the proximate causes is the
cause is directly related to these human activities. What they
are first is the habitat destruction and fragmentation. We have
destroyers are more than fifty percent of all the natural
habitats that were here present five hundred, eight hundred years ago. Forests, mangroves,
(15:32):
tropical forests all are one corals.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
They are going.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
So one of the main causes is habitat destruction and
habitat fragmentation. And why this has increased because the more
humans there are, the more land we need for infrastructure,
including cities and towns, and and for agriculture and for
cattle grazing that basically producing food and producing a habitat
(15:59):
for us.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
So this is the first cause.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Then the second cause will be as you say, over exploitation.
You know, we have wiped out as you said that buffalo.
There were an estimated between thirty to sixty million buffalo
and in two hundred years they were gone. Yeah, the
species almost become extinct, and because of Yellowstone it was
saved that I mean right now there are probably no
(16:23):
more than ten thousand whitefals in the planet.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
And then so it's over hunting and over killing.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
But then, for instance, there are only two percent of
the large of the large, the big fishes in the
oceans that were in nineteen seventy, including charts for instance,
and two na fish. Only two percent or we used
to be in the nineteen seventies are still around. So
(16:58):
the massive and then the their courses illegal trade. We
are using literally billions of species to fuel the pet
trade in the US, in Europe, in Asia, and in
Mexico too obviously, and then also for instance, a gigantic
trade for animals underparts because they're supposed to have a
(17:24):
medicinal properties, like a horn of the rhino, you know
what I mean. You know that it's been keilled because
it has been used for a prodisiacle for many other things.
China is the main China, Vietnam and Indonesia are the
main problems right now on using products. I mean literally,
(17:45):
species are becoming extinct because of the trade of a
few countries. But those few countries are the ones the animals,
But those animals start being killed by many other countries.
You know, in Mexico, the wakita, small dolphin like mammal,
is the most and then your marine mammal in the planet.
(18:06):
It's becoming extinct because the people in the Golf of Mexico.
In Mexico use this net to fish the totuava. It's
aid a fish that.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
For some really nonsense reasons.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
The god pladder, you know, is solved incredibly expensive in China,
and then they put it.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I mean right now there are two thousand.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
The boats fishing in the gulf, and then there are
less ten bakitas, and there has been a big effort
of the Mexican government to try to deal with the issue.
And the good news is are still around ten, you know.
But the problem is they go from here, go through
the United States, and then from the United States to China.
The price in Mexico will be probably four hundred dollars,
(18:56):
I mean four thousand dollars per kilo, and once they
reach China it will be hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Pangling scales, the pangol in one of them. I have
been many times in the tropical forests of Asia and Africa,
many many times, and I have seen only one a
pangling in the wild. And we have seen very often that,
(19:17):
for instance, the authorities in Indonesia or in Thailand confiscated
achievement of three tons of scales of pangolins. Tangolins are
mammal or covered with scales like like fingernails, you know,
the combody just in my how many pangolines you have
(19:38):
to kill to have three tons of salt. And then
we have diseases, you know, introduced diseases by animals, by
domestic animals, or new diseases, emerging diseases like covid or
like influenza, avian influence and so on, and all these
factors in all these factors are affecting the wild speedecies.
(20:00):
On the one time, you have loose fifty percent of
your land or more of your habitats, you know, so
you your habitat has been destroyed. Many of your or
the other individuals or your same species are being killed
for whatever reason, you know, and then you're exposed to diseases,
you're supposed to pollution, you're exposed now, I mean this
(20:23):
has happened in the absect of climate change.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
But now just in my een.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
That on top of all of these you are putting
climate change, so the desituation is very, very difficult.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
We did another analysis and.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Where we have awaited thirty three thousand species, thirty three
thousand species from very abundant species to very rare species.
And the data there was data on how what was
the population trend stable, declining, increasing, you know, and almost
forty percent of all those species including very abandon abandon
(21:02):
less aband than rare, very rare critically and then here
forty percent at least have the climbing population. And then
a recent paper, more recent paper shows that is almost
sixty percent of them have the climbing population. So the panorama,
it shows that we're losing so many plants, so many animals,
(21:24):
so many microorganisms, you know, while plants, well, animals, well
micro organisms in the planet that.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Is reaching.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
This already a very catastrophic issue. And I will explain
by in a minute.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Well, let's let's go touching onto on what you're talking about,
because I think if the species were such as our
pets and things that we see constantly, cats, dogs, cows, sheep,
(22:02):
they were declining, we would probably do something about it faster.
But unfortunately you're talking about the snails and things in
the forest and you know, things that we don't even
think about bees that we don't see that often. So
I think that's one reason why people are not as
(22:24):
concerned because it's like, well, I don't really see them
that often. So that being said, what are some of
the species or groups that are disappearing fastest that maybe
we're not really aware of, that are really important to
our ecosystem?
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Well, first of all, I mean, they're very large animals
that we like, and we know most of the people
know elephant, giraffes, rhinos, hippopotamos, tigers, lions, jaguars, staperers.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
They could keep on going full.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Well worst right, Well then, cly it's called before the
vanish before the Vanage, we we literally took out a
different groups, including micros, and basically we're looking we're losing micros,
we're losing fungi, we're using plants and some of the
(23:16):
most of cure species, evidentally, will be all of those
species who are very critic they are not very conspicuous
that most of the living.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Places like the forest far away.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
From most of us live, you know, and we we
we know a lot of what how many species, what
the species are being disappearing because fortunately we have now
the access to almost instantaneous access to knowledge, you know,
to news, and then the social media has really helped,
(23:49):
has really helped to publicize the problems. But let me
tell you something, many times people ask me a question
similar to what you just mentioned.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Is the will it's too save that all species and experience?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
You know, it's sad, I don't I don't want to know.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Yeah, or they said, well, but it's sad, but this
is the course of development, is the course of human
well being, you know, in order to have this, And uh,
I wish they were right. I mean, there are so
many reasons we should care about nature, about wild plants,
(24:27):
will animals, while micro organizams, you know, wild life in general.
But there are religious, philosophical, moral, ethical, you can count.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
You can say so many reasons.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
We were very selfish and you just think about humans.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
The most important reason.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
To save this species, it's because there is life on
this planet, just because.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Those species exist.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
If you think about it, there are more plants galaxies
in the universe than grains of sand in the ocean.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
You see it, there are more you just have you
just pull just some sun in your hands, and.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
There are thousands and thousands of grains, but no more
than that galaxies and planets in the in the universe,
you know.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
And as far as we know, there is only life
on this planet.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
And there is only life on this planet because of
the white plants, animals, sun micro organisms. Those animals, those
plants are those micros are organizing what we scient the
call ecosystems that are basically ecological.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Systems that are incredibly complex.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
In my tropical forests in southern Mexico where I work,
there must be seventy thousand or more species living together.
How do you do you can you simply start to
describe what are the interactions of Ay doesn't think it's impossible, Well,
this is what we're destroying.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
And by working together.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
And by forming those ecosistence basically they do uh uh.
Those ecosystems provide what we call the scientists called ecosistance services.
Ecosistant goods and services are all the benefits that we
human get for free from for the well functioning of nature.
So for instance, just to give it the proper combination
of gases of the atmospheres that make an atmosphere suitable
(26:31):
for life in general, and for human life in particular,
it's because of the plants and animals in this planet.
All the drinking water for us and for all the animals. Yeah,
it's produced by the cycles that rely.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
On the function of these ecosystems.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
All the all the all the soils in the planet
that are natural soils are basically fertilized by disciples. So
another think, around seventy five percent of all the compounds
active compounds of the drugs that we use right now,
of the mazine come for plants and animals, well plants
(27:14):
and animals. So one of the most important drugs against
diabetes you know right now, the active compound comes from
melissa in Mexico that is also find in the US
is called the Hila monster or they bid Lisard who
has exposonous is one of the rarest Elisa the exposonous
(27:38):
and they found a protein in the venom that is
incredibly important to fight diabetes. And the same thing, like
around seventy percent or more of over the crops are
pollinated completely or partially by animals, by birds, by insects,
by bees, by butterflies, by bats, so we basically are
(28:05):
losing you know, the parts of these systems, these is
ecological systems that are necessary to maintain life on the
planet in general and in human life in particular. So
every time were losing species, every time we're losing populations,
we're losing the capabilities of the planet or origion to
(28:27):
maintain the conditions that has been.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
That has been those conditions have been the ones.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Who gave us such a stable, you know, environment that
has allowed us to have the well being, the development,
the culture, everything that is positive for humanity in the
last one thousand years, and we're destroying it.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
So basically, what do you say it.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
It is like if you go to the doctor and
the doctor says you people drinking, you can put using drugs,
you're going to die.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Tomorrow, and you say, well, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
So basically that's the scale of the problem.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Also, on the one hand, we're losing thousands of times
faster species of everything microft, animals, plant function than in
the last millions of years. And second, the consequences of
losing that is affecting broadly, affecting hardly the systems and
collegal systems that provide us with these econsistent services. And
(29:34):
there is no way we can continue with the well
being and the stability of civilization. We continue destroying those
animals and those plants. And the bad news is that
we don't have much time literally at this rate. We
don't Many of my colleagues working in other issues in
(29:55):
ecology and keeping points on us, we think that we
don't have more than twenty or put in a different way,
what happened in the next twenty years will define what
survives in the planet in terms of the wild animals
and plants, and what's the fate of civil decisions, Because
if you think that we're destroying the basic things that
(30:16):
keep us aligned, eventually there will be a collapse of civilization.
That's a big risk of losing all these species. And
people say, come on hera that sounds to be too strong. Well,
what's happened with the two billion people who don't have
water already drinking water, they're in the collapse? What happened
with the people don't have enough food? What happened with
(30:38):
the people who's in the last a few two decades
there had been like one hundred and fifty million ecoloical refuge.
They have to move from places because they cannot live anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So the coloical.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
The crisis is already happening. The collapse is already happening.
We have seen how many flaws and how many terms,
and how many horrible things are associated to climate change
that is fueled by the laws of biodiversity, and the
climate change is fueling the extinction crisis.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
They have a positive need feedback.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
The more extinctions there are, the more climate change will be.
The more climate change will be, the more extinctionion will be.
So at this point is and I hope I'm wrong,
but I mean, everything is pointing to the direction. Many
scientists are, and we do it with all kind of
(31:37):
want to be very very cautious.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
I was saying it.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
But the magnitude problem is that it may cause a
regional or a global collapse of civilization in the few
next decades because of the magnitude and the importance and
relevance of what we're losing for the function of the
whole planet.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
So pretty much like the dinosaurs, the media, the media
that came and hit the Earth is pretty much was
happening through call it or the ecosystem is going to collapse,
and it's pretty much that's going to be our.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
I mean we were scientists, and what was important that
we entered the six mass extensions. We called the six
mass extensions because in the history of the last five
hundred and fifty million years of the history of the planet,
and this is when there were microscopic animals and plants,
things that we can see, and they left fossils so
(32:36):
we know where they were, where they were and on.
So during those five five hundred and fifty million years,
we know that the life has been increasing steadily except
for five times where the extinction rates were much higher
than the expecition rates, you know, and we call those
(32:57):
mass exceedinctions. There has been five mass extensions and those
fimus extinctions are basically you can define it by three things.
One is it occurred incredibly rapid in theological.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Times terms, but I mean incredibly happened. A rapid is
a hundreds.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Of thousands of a few million years. This is instantaneous.
What is happening now. Second, it was caused by a
natural catastrophe like the asteroid, the meteorite that impact Earth
and destroyed all the dinosaurs and everything else. And the
last characteristics of a ass extension that seventy percent or
more of the life on the planet was evaporated in
(33:40):
those a few thousands of countries of years, so.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
We know what's happened. So we also know that after
the crisis, life.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Rebound, you know, but it took between ten to fifteen
twenty million years tound so we don't have twenty million years.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
And the other thing is like, it's very important.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I mean, as a scientist, let me tell you, it
gives me a little bit of a peace in my
mind knowing that life eventually will rebound in the planet.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
But what we're talking heat right now, where we're talking
the important of this crisis and understanding this crisis is
if we continue, they will be incredibly suffering.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
For humanity in the coming.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Decades because of the massive impact of climate change, losing
this species, not having enough drinking water and not having
enough food and so on, all the problems associated of
losing the natural parts of the planet.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
All right, So I'm a big proponent, I'm supporter of
of space exploration, and you know, they want to colonize Mars,
you know, and they said, oh, in case we ever
have to, you know, move off our planet. And I
was like, well, why are you taking billions eventually trillions
(35:14):
of dollars to colonize a planet that has no way
of supporting life. Why don't you put that money into
redoing or it's like having a house, you know, instead
of going buying a brand new home, why don't you
just you know, fix up your own home that you
have now? So I don't I never excellent, Yeah, I
(35:37):
never understood that.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
It's a stupid it's a stupid idea to colonize Mars.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
How many people will be there on that zone?
Speaker 3 (35:47):
And we're eight eight billion people, more than any billion people,
so most of us will die here in the planet,
so we'd rather stay here and work together.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I'm also proponent.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I'm fixed. I mean, one of the problems, and you
probably have seen it said the cost of conservation, the
cost of maintaining the environment, the cost of fighting climate change.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
It's not a cost.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
It's an investment, yes, because you're not using just the
money and wasted. I mean, it's an investment that we
leave you less money direct money than if you invest
in oil.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
But it will give you.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Many other tangible and intangible benefits, you know, and it
will give you money back, for instance, protecting forests. If
you protect forests, and then you do you can you
can do for forestry, or you can do escarvecing some
minimals so you can do wildlife viewing. There are so
(36:41):
many things, you know, and uh so the first important
thing is not a cost, it's an investment. So we're invested.
We should be investing in saving ourhouse. As you said,
and I put this example. It's like if you have cancer,
you know, and you have a one million dollars in
(37:01):
your pockets. You know, you go to the doctor and
I said, okay, you have bad news is you have cancer.
Good news is cancer stage two. You can be saved.
It will cause you ten thousand dollars. We said, wow,
it's too much.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
So basically, just in mind, we need we live in
an economy that is trillions of dollars, trillions of dollars
every year, we will put a few billion dollars into
the environment, protecting all the natural econsistent that's there still there,
recovering species, restoring habitats, having more efficient technologies, more research
(37:45):
onto how we can develop things without austraying environment, and
so on, you know. But just basically we concentrate on
conservation on protecting what it is like what we have,
and restoring what we can restore. Basically, we are barely
with a few billion dollars a year we will be
able to start.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
To make a vent on the problem.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
You know, Can this be reversed? Can this be reversed
or or is it kind of just maintaining now?
Speaker 3 (38:14):
It cannot be reversed for the species that has become extinct,
It cannot reverse for some of the habitats that are
completely gong.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
But yes, definitely.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
I mean, there are plenty of really important for the
public to know and to understand, is that there are
many successful conservation stories, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I mean there are many success stories. There are many ways, many.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Projects that have shown that you can restore certain things.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
And it will be very.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Challenging, you know, because now we have climatic climate change
on top of us. And but let's say that we
can put enough money, and we can put enough money
to start to attacked and to reduce the main impacts
of human activities. I think at.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Least if we could, if we could win two or.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Three decades to the that have it to the environmental deterioration,
I think.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
We will be in better shape. To face it.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
So on the one hand, there is hope that if
we will invest enough, we can start for at least
to stop and maybe restore part of the problem. The
main problem at this moment is that nobody, no country,
no international institution is in charge or branch. So what
(39:43):
we're putting, very little money and what little money has
been put into conservation is because of because particular groups
people is interesting in doing it. But if you think
now you tell me, like the UN for some real
things like a piece or agreements and trying to diffuse
(40:07):
work in some countries or whatever, there is nobody, no institution,
no people, no country directing the effort. So even if
now with somebody will say, you know, okay, we have okay,
we have here one trillion dollars to invest every year
to save the planet right now, there is no articulation
(40:30):
of any group at the scale that need to be done.
We have the cop you know the COP, and we
have the cup now coming soon. But it is like
I'm cynically in the sent that is okay.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
We have we have a meeting where we're going to
discover the problems, and.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Any agreement that there is there is no where we
can really make it happen at the scale, at the national,
at the global scale, because I mean, nobody's in charge,
and it's not binding.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Okay, no, no country.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
I mean all the countries can follow or not voluntarily
those agreements. And that's ridiculous in the sense that what
we need now is a strong kind of Marshall plan
after the Second World War.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
But for the planet, you.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Know, Yeah, and my hope is humanity has shown greater
strength during times of difficult, very difficult Second World War
and so on, So maybe we're.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Going to wake up soon.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
But we have to think people like you that you know,
really dedicating your life to you know, doing these studies
and research to to give us those warnings that we
don't really here to our leaderships and know and even
just our own families. Sometimes they don't, like you said,
(42:03):
people just don't want to talk about it because it
is too depressing. But mother nature, like any mama, if
you're messing the house up, eventually she's going to kick
your butt out and just say go get your own place.
So yeah, I think the planet will be fine without us.
But you know, like you said, without us, I'm sure
(42:25):
the world would flourish. And species would continue to grow back.
But that being said, can you give us a little
bit of hope to finish up our conversation today?
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, what I say, as I say, the bison was
very I mean almost sixteen there were a few hundred
left and now there are thousands.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
In Mexico.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
We will introduce twenty three wild bison that were donated
by the US, and now there are more than six
coundred and Mexico don eight wolves, the Mexican wolves to
the US.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
And there are a hundred arround.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
And we talk about like the tiger tigers were in
really bad shape, almost one thousand and a few more.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Now there are almost five thousand strainers an elephants. I
mean in Mexico.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
We did the first chat Ward census in twenty ten,
there were four thousand animals with four dozen animals. In
twenty eighteen with the following census, and we find four thousand,
eight hundred. Even though the conditions deteriorated in many cases,
there were more, and there were more because there was
more conscience and more interest from the private industry, the
(43:36):
local people, the government. And then we finished in twenty
twenty four. The next the third census, and the good
news is there are more than five thousand. We don't
have exact name number, but there are more than five thousand,
probably five hundred animals.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
And we had words. So we have all the signs
and all the technology.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
That we require to make this happens, you know, And
this is the one one. The second thing is like,
so we have all the science and the technology that
we need to do much better what we're doing. The
second thing is that many have plenty of examples of that.
(44:20):
The third is like, I mean local people in Mexico,
in the US and away and some private.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Investors and Song have saved.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
Millions and millions and millions of acres of forests and
tropical forests and Song and it works. I have a
small I have a small NGO that we are working
with providing income, providing benefits to local people for protecting forests.
And now we have more than a half a million acres,
more than ten thousand people. And we're three people, but
(44:53):
three guys, and we none of us is rich. And
we have been able to put together this gigantic product
that and the same like us, there are many people
that I know, all of the products.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
There are the both the scientists.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
There are many politicians fighting to get it done so
and many people, I mean, like the people like listening
to this.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Podcast are basically interested. You know.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
They put water or they put plants in their gardens.
So the hope is like, on the one hand, we
should all understand.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
That this is a critical issue.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
That may collapse civilization unless we face it.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
The second is.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
We can do what we is on over hands, both
for the proper person, get involved at the local or
the national level and protecting a fight against protecting the
last foursts and so on. I mean, become an actor
and stop being an spectator, you know.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
And as a scientist.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Let me tell you that it's very difficult to be
a scientist and a conservation is because usually the universities,
I say, they required you published papers and songs. So
most of my work on conservation I don't even have
I don't even use it at the university to be
graded because they don't understand that it's important.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yeah, but we do it.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
They want to have a say in it, I'm sure exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
So anyway, so I think I think I go to
bed every night thinking that what we do is relevant
or all the people interest in environment from your garden
to the global Second that because of the uncertainties in
(46:41):
the future, we should.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Work really hard today.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
We should take care of ourselves really hard today, and
which will enjoy life really hard today.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Well, no more we can do for.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
The young people, Like I said, you know your generation,
my generation, I'm I'll be fifty six this year, thirty
years I'm getting I'll be definitely up there. But for
the young people that are listening to this podcast and
on TikTok and YouTube, what message would you leave the
(47:13):
younger generations, because they're they're inheriting, you know, this beautiful planet.
What would you tell them how to get involved?
Speaker 2 (47:24):
How?
Speaker 1 (47:24):
How how would they how would they make a difference
in the future.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Well, the first thing I would say to them is
not their fault, and it's not I mean, we shouldn't
we should I mean when I say, oh, the next
generation should solve the problems, I felt really irritated, really bad.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
It's not their fault. They shouldn't. We shouldn't leave it there.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
We're going to help them where many people are helping,
trying to help that they inherit something is better relievable.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
The second is if they're interested.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
This is a great challenge, but they also offers great opportunities.
I mean, if you understand what are you understand exactly
what I said, There is not a causing investment, and
you understand what kind of investment, you can restore habitats,
and you can and you can produce wealth in terms
of knowledge, in terms of money for local people and
(48:15):
for the country and zone.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
It seemed to me that.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
It is very complicated situation, but as such there is.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
A great opportunities.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
As I said, But also if I were there, and
also like you am sixty something already, you know, but
I try to enjoy every day I see. I mean
my suggestion will be the future is uncertain. They should
do their best to try to maintain the planet, you know,
(48:49):
at least the way they got it, you know. But
it's too beautiful to be depressed and thinking too far away.
They shouldn't be to be thinking about twenty fifty, I mean,
fifty forty, fifty, sixty years old.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
They should be.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Focusing in shorter term things that can do and that
should enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
I agree. I agree, because last.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
And last too long, it won't it won't hurt that
you enjoy it, and if it lasts longer, it willn't
hurt that you enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
No, I go up into the mountains and the you know,
all over this country and world and just just amazed
by the beautiful world we live in. It's you know,
it's starting.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
And well, thank you so much for being on Tribute
Told and giving us this amazing presentation of what you
do and what hopefully people will get involved in. People
can go. Is this your website right, Eco labunom E
collab dot com. Yes, yeah, and can they donate if
(49:58):
they want to donate to help with any causes or
how do they get.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Yeah, your book have projects where they can help to
We're saying, for instance, these places in this the force
in Mexico, the yeah we're device on. Yeah, they can
even get involved in any grace And well, thank you
very much for for I mean, I really appreciate when
people like you take time to expose these issues because
that's the only way.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
That's one way we have.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
To be able to make more people understanding the magnitude
the urgency, but also what we can do to save
our planet.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yes, together we can do it. And but thank you
and thank you everybody for tuning in. We really appreciate it.
You guys are always amazing of sharing the show, leaving
great comments and just you know, supporting us by just
telling a friend. And you know, after almost sixteen years
of doing this, I still get fascinated and excited like
(50:55):
people like doctor Gerardo. So but thank you. Please take
care of yourself and each other again, share the show.
We love you, and until next time, I'm Tony Sweet
and I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Bye,
Well, welcome back to Truth Be Told, where we uncover
the hidden truths, challenges and challenge conventional thinking, and dive
deep into the mysteries that shape our world. I'm your host,
Tony Sweet, and today we're tackling one of the most
urgent and alarming issues of our time, the sixth mass
extinction and are we running out of time? Joining me
(00:22):
is one of the world's leading voices in ecology and conservation,
doctor Gerardo Sabeos. He's a renowned zoologist whose groundbreaking research
has sounded the alarm on the accelerating loss of biodiversity
and the consequences we face if we don't act now.
In this episode, we'll explore what exactly is the sixth
(00:43):
mass extinction, Why are species disappearing at such an unprecedented rate,
and is human activity driving this crisis? And what can
still be done. This conversation isn't just for scientists or policymakers.
It's for all of us, because the fate of countless species,
eco systems, and even humanity itself is on the line.
Because you might hear something today that will change your
(01:05):
mind and the world. I'm your host, Tony Sweet, and
please welcome to the Truth Be Told Studios for the
first time, Doctor Gerardo Sebeos, Hello, Hello, well, welcome, welcome
to Truth Be Told. I appreciate you being here.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Thank you very much, Thank you very much to me.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Did I did I get your last name even close?
Speaker 2 (01:30):
It's Yesius, That's perfect.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
That's my country roots of trying to pronounce a Latino name, So.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I'll do the same when I pronounced the English foreign
last name song.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
At least I didn't use the l's. Well, I appreciate
you being here. And uh, I know this is a
topic that a lot of people have been talking about
for a while, and I'm just going to dive right in.
And you've been, you know, on the four front of
really sounding the alarm of what on what you and
many scientists now are calling the sixth mass extinction? And
(02:08):
when did you realize that we are facing a crisis
of this magnitude? And what was the moment like for
you as a scientist and just as a human being.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, I wasn't.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I have been interested in conservation and ecology for a
London time. You know, my parents said, since I was
a very young kid, I would say that I like
to I wanted to study animals. You know, when I
was around fourteen, I got a book an overl was
the Last Schemo Corleon and uh it really it was
(02:46):
an obel that talked about the last two Chemo Carlos
flying in the planet one day and then they mainly
stay alone for all his life, trying to find a
mad And it really when I read that, I got
very got to anxiety about thinking going out of my
neighborhood to another town, to another place, and I find
(03:06):
another human being. And so I started to study biology.
And since I was studying biologyme we knew there was
a problem with the extinction in the sense that the
many species would become an extin or local extin. But
I mean, nobody knew what was the urgency of the problem.
And actually many of my friends would say that, many
(03:27):
of the tens said, well, I don't work hard though
extinction is part of evolution, you know, evolution is basically
the relationship between extinction and especiation. In normal times, especiation
is higher than extinction, so there are more species to
be added. So it wasn't around two thousand and eight
(03:48):
when I was after doing as a vatical at Stanford
with my very good colleague polarly that we start to
discuss that, and one day I said, what about the
magnitude of extinction?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
I will really this is normal or not? And the
problem that we will have is.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
That to be able to answer that question, you have
to know what was the normal rates of extinction in
the previous million years, you know, And there was not
that information. But anyway, we got there what all the
people have said and something, and we published a first
paper in twenty ten, you know, in a very small journal,
just to start with. And then we keep on working
(04:32):
and then we got a really nice data from Tony
Varnowski from Berkeley, a colleague of us, who published in
twenty eleven, and this paper on that we have estimated
the rate of extinction of mammals in the last few
million years. So it was like bingo, we have a golden.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Thing here.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So at that time, what we did we talked to
him and then all the other colleagues and I other
the data for all the vertebrates that had become extinct
in the last five hundred years, you know, since fifteen hundred.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
And to be honest, I knew, I knew.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
I mean, I have a big expectation that what we
will find it was that the current extinction will be
higher than the extinction patterns in the last few million years.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And we did a.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Study and so the surprise was that it was much
much higher than we even expected. You know, I was
very surprised. On the one hand, we review the analysis
several times. We can't send the analysis to some of
our friends to split check it. We're not doing something wrong,
(05:46):
and an Tony Varnoski was part of our team. So
at the end the data was correct. And on the
one hand, so we decided to publish it and we
put up very I mean a various ramatic title, and
I remember that the journal said, well, the paper has
been accepted, but we don't like this kind of title
(06:07):
because we are scientists. And we said, well, I mean,
come on, guys, we are scientists, and as a scientist
we have to be careful not to say things that
are not based on dataime. But on the other hand,
will be unethical and ethical not to say the magnitude
of the problem. So they led us to have work
(06:27):
title and the title basically say that we have entered
the sixth mass extinction, and boom. It was amazing. It
was immediately took off in the in the news, in
the radio, in the.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Newspapers, TV, social media.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
It was really very impressive how many people, how many
audits become interested on the problem. So for once it
was very important then to realize that people were consum
learn about this problem. We all have been concerned by
that time, and most of the people knew about climate change,
(07:05):
but very few people understood understand at that time that
the extinction crisis could it was as bad as a
climate crisis. With the difference. We led the planet to
pull off for a few hundreds of millions of thousands years.
We will recover, it will lose all these species that
(07:28):
will never be again here.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
So you asked me, how do it I feel?
Speaker 3 (07:33):
I felt incredibly On the one hand, it's very very difficult,
and one scientist, as you as a scientist, managed to
find out something that changed the paradigm, you know, like
in this case that we said this is not normal,
we have to be very worried about it, and so
so in that sense, it was like a rewarding that
we were able to put together very strong data set
(07:56):
and analysis and to be able to show that we
haven't your mass extinction. We're in a crisis at there's
such magnitude that could compare to the previous five mass extinction.
On the other hand, I felt like incredibly sad because
just in my mind, suddenly you you you think that
(08:19):
and you realize that the extinction problem is I mean,
there is a bad extinction problem. That extinction crisis is bad.
But suddenly you realize that it's much worse than you
were ever in mind. And at that time, let me
tell you something for me. Every time I will get
in the in the internet, in the an email saying
(08:42):
the doors regarding your paper, I was jumping because you
know we were, I mean they were literally everybody was
on top of trying to figure out we were right
or wrong. And on the one hand, I said, I
really hope that somebody shows that we were wrong. In
terms of a scientific career, it will be like a
bump in your scientific career. But in terms of the
(09:04):
importance and the relevance for humanity, for biodversity, would have
been wonderful to be proving wrong. But unfortunately it wasn't
that case. And after all, there were many other people
starting to do There were two criticisms once that we
were just starting and we couldn't know that this was
(09:26):
a mass extinction until the end of it. And the
second is that we use the extinction rate for mammals,
but probably they didn't apply to other organisms in the planet.
And then following five years we publish this. In twenty fifteen,
there were papers on micros, on fungi, on all kinds
of invertebrates and other vertebrates and plants, everything, all of
(09:50):
them shows the same patterns, and even some of them,
even most wars, for instance in land snails, the current
extinction crisis, the current extinction the animals that become extinct
in the last one hundred years who had taken eighty
thousand years or more, you know our paper, and we
(10:11):
use them more. We were like trying to use the
most conservative data and with the most conservative data, which
show that the species that have become extinct in one
hundred years, who had taken at least ten thousand years
to become extinct. That was the magnitude. That was the
big finding of the paper.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I have a couple thanks there. I mean, first of all,
you studied for five hundred years of extinction, so there
you may kind of the term extinction versus the other one.
I can't remember what you said, but it's like the buffalo,
(10:56):
the you know, the when uh, the white men came
to America in the Indians, you know, we pretty much
almost wiped out the buffalo in American buffalo. You know,
that was over hunting. What's what was the data from
the last five hundred years versus hunting, over hunting versus
(11:18):
environmental It sounds like the last hundred years have been
more the environment changing versus over hunting. Am I correct?
Speaker 3 (11:27):
This is this is exactly, This is exactly what was important.
If this was caused by natural causes, like environmental causes,
you know, not related to humans, then the extinction rate,
the current extinction race will be would have to be
similar to the extinction rate in the previous million years
where there were no humans here. That's exactly what was
(11:47):
important about this paper. That we have five hundred years
and we use five hundred years because the International Union
for Consideration of Nature started to.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Count.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
This is the official body that counts extinct and endangered
species in the planet, and they start in fifteen hundred
because the first written account of a species to become
extinct was in at the end of fifteen hundred.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
But yes, in myen this is a two.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
So on the one hand, this is what was so
important because we could prove that if the current extinction
rates were similar to what's happened in the last previous
million years, it will be obviously natural causes. So we
shouldn't we shouldn't worry with because we could do nothing.
(12:42):
I mean, we could do a few things to stop it,
but it will be natural. It will be a natural path,
the same thing that has happened in a few million years.
But if we look at that and then compared to
what's happened when we're humans, you know, started to have
a big impact, then it is basically this is what
the big the big issue, the big point of the
(13:04):
paper is showing that the massive extinction rates that has
started since fifteen hundred related to human activity. I mean
to when the presence of humans and activities become start
to become at the impact.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
The global at the global level. That was the critical issues.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
So we could say with certainty that this extinctions were
not caused by natural causes like change the natural changes
in climate or other things. Both they were related to
the presence of human and his activities.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
And that's the critical.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Point, and I'm I'm glad you pointed so for the
people who were and people who are not scientists. So
if we compare what happened in the previous million years,
there were no humans, you know, and basically for the
last sixty six million years that he has been ancient
rates who are low lower than speciation rates, so a
(14:05):
number of species has increased. In this Suddenly the humans
appear and we start to count the species that become extinct.
And then we compare to the what's happened in the
previous million years and found that indeed is because of
the human activities. And you say, discounting what are the
(14:25):
human activities? Very basically there are so many many things.
But we scientists we call like ultimate the ultimate couses
of extinction, a course by the human population growth where
too many and grow growing too fast. You know, we're
passing the carrying capacity of the planet of having too
many humans.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
The second thing is over consumption.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
We use too much things, especially societies and people who
are more affluent, use too many resources. And finally, technologists,
you know, our technologists. For instance, oil is very good
at ucing energy for us, but it's bad because it
produces gases that want the atmosphere, so that those are
(15:08):
the ultimate causes. And then the proximate causes is the
cause is directly related to these human activities. What they
are first is the habitat destruction and fragmentation. We have
destroyers are more than fifty percent of all the natural
habitats that were here present five hundred, eight hundred years ago. Forests, mangroves,
(15:32):
tropical forests all are one corals.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
They are going.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
So one of the main causes is habitat destruction and
habitat fragmentation. And why this has increased because the more
humans there are, the more land we need for infrastructure,
including cities and towns, and and for agriculture and for
cattle grazing that basically producing food and producing a habitat
(15:59):
for us.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
So this is the first cause.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
Then the second cause will be as you say, over exploitation.
You know, we have wiped out as you said that buffalo.
There were an estimated between thirty to sixty million buffalo
and in two hundred years they were gone. Yeah, the
species almost become extinct, and because of Yellowstone it was
saved that I mean right now there are probably no
(16:23):
more than ten thousand whitefals in the planet.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
And then so it's over hunting and over killing.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
But then, for instance, there are only two percent of
the large of the large, the big fishes in the
oceans that were in nineteen seventy, including charts for instance,
and two na fish. Only two percent or we used
to be in the nineteen seventies are still around. So
(16:58):
the massive and then the their courses illegal trade. We
are using literally billions of species to fuel the pet
trade in the US, in Europe, in Asia, and in
Mexico too obviously, and then also for instance, a gigantic
trade for animals underparts because they're supposed to have a
(17:24):
medicinal properties, like a horn of the rhino, you know
what I mean. You know that it's been keilled because
it has been used for a prodisiacle for many other things.
China is the main China, Vietnam and Indonesia are the
main problems right now on using products. I mean literally,
(17:45):
species are becoming extinct because of the trade of a
few countries. But those few countries are the ones the animals,
But those animals start being killed by many other countries.
You know, in Mexico, the wakita, small dolphin like mammal,
is the most and then your marine mammal in the planet.
(18:06):
It's becoming extinct because the people in the Golf of Mexico.
In Mexico use this net to fish the totuava. It's
aid a fish that.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
For some really nonsense reasons.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
The god pladder, you know, is solved incredibly expensive in China,
and then they put it.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
I mean right now there are two thousand.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
The boats fishing in the gulf, and then there are
less ten bakitas, and there has been a big effort
of the Mexican government to try to deal with the issue.
And the good news is are still around ten, you know.
But the problem is they go from here, go through
the United States, and then from the United States to China.
The price in Mexico will be probably four hundred dollars,
(18:56):
I mean four thousand dollars per kilo, and once they
reach China it will be hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Pangling scales, the pangol in one of them. I have
been many times in the tropical forests of Asia and Africa,
many many times, and I have seen only one a
pangling in the wild. And we have seen very often that,
(19:17):
for instance, the authorities in Indonesia or in Thailand confiscated
achievement of three tons of scales of pangolins. Tangolins are
mammal or covered with scales like like fingernails, you know,
the combody just in my how many pangolines you have
(19:38):
to kill to have three tons of salt. And then
we have diseases, you know, introduced diseases by animals, by
domestic animals, or new diseases, emerging diseases like covid or
like influenza, avian influence and so on, and all these
factors in all these factors are affecting the wild speedecies.
(20:00):
On the one time, you have loose fifty percent of
your land or more of your habitats, you know, so
you your habitat has been destroyed. Many of your or
the other individuals or your same species are being killed
for whatever reason, you know, and then you're exposed to diseases,
you're supposed to pollution, you're exposed now, I mean this
(20:23):
has happened in the absect of climate change.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
But now just in my een.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
That on top of all of these you are putting
climate change, so the desituation is very, very difficult.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
We did another analysis and.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Where we have awaited thirty three thousand species, thirty three
thousand species from very abundant species to very rare species.
And the data there was data on how what was
the population trend stable, declining, increasing, you know, and almost
forty percent of all those species including very abandon abandon
(21:02):
less aband than rare, very rare critically and then here
forty percent at least have the climbing population. And then
a recent paper, more recent paper shows that is almost
sixty percent of them have the climbing population. So the panorama,
it shows that we're losing so many plants, so many animals,
(21:24):
so many microorganisms, you know, while plants, well, animals, well
micro organisms in the planet that.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Is reaching.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
This already a very catastrophic issue. And I will explain
by in a minute.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Well, let's let's go touching onto on what you're talking about,
because I think if the species were such as our
pets and things that we see constantly, cats, dogs, cows, sheep,
(22:02):
they were declining, we would probably do something about it faster.
But unfortunately you're talking about the snails and things in
the forest and you know, things that we don't even
think about bees that we don't see that often. So
I think that's one reason why people are not as
(22:24):
concerned because it's like, well, I don't really see them
that often. So that being said, what are some of
the species or groups that are disappearing fastest that maybe
we're not really aware of, that are really important to
our ecosystem?
Speaker 3 (22:38):
Well, first of all, I mean, they're very large animals
that we like, and we know most of the people
know elephant, giraffes, rhinos, hippopotamos, tigers, lions, jaguars, staperers.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
They could keep on going full.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Well worst right, Well then, cly it's called before the
vanish before the Vanage, we we literally took out a
different groups, including micros, and basically we're looking we're losing micros,
we're losing fungi, we're using plants and some of the
(23:16):
most of cure species, evidentally, will be all of those
species who are very critic they are not very conspicuous
that most of the living.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Places like the forest far away.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
From most of us live, you know, and we we
we know a lot of what how many species, what
the species are being disappearing because fortunately we have now
the access to almost instantaneous access to knowledge, you know,
to news, and then the social media has really helped,
(23:49):
has really helped to publicize the problems. But let me
tell you something, many times people ask me a question
similar to what you just mentioned.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Is the will it's too save that all species and experience?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
You know, it's sad, I don't I don't want to know.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Yeah, or they said, well, but it's sad, but this
is the course of development, is the course of human
well being, you know, in order to have this, And uh,
I wish they were right. I mean, there are so
many reasons we should care about nature, about wild plants,
(24:27):
will animals, while micro organizams, you know, wild life in general.
But there are religious, philosophical, moral, ethical, you can count.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
You can say so many reasons.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
We were very selfish and you just think about humans.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
The most important reason.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
To save this species, it's because there is life on
this planet, just because.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Those species exist.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
If you think about it, there are more plants galaxies
in the universe than grains of sand in the ocean.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
You see it, there are more you just have you
just pull just some sun in your hands, and.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
There are thousands and thousands of grains, but no more
than that galaxies and planets in the in the universe,
you know.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
And as far as we know, there is only life
on this planet.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
And there is only life on this planet because of
the white plants, animals, sun micro organisms. Those animals, those
plants are those micros are organizing what we scient the
call ecosystems that are basically ecological.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Systems that are incredibly complex.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
In my tropical forests in southern Mexico where I work,
there must be seventy thousand or more species living together.
How do you do you can you simply start to
describe what are the interactions of Ay doesn't think it's impossible, Well,
this is what we're destroying.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
And by working together.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
And by forming those ecosistence basically they do uh uh.
Those ecosystems provide what we call the scientists called ecosistance services.
Ecosistant goods and services are all the benefits that we
human get for free from for the well functioning of nature.
So for instance, just to give it the proper combination
of gases of the atmospheres that make an atmosphere suitable
(26:31):
for life in general, and for human life in particular,
it's because of the plants and animals in this planet.
All the drinking water for us and for all the animals. Yeah,
it's produced by the cycles that rely.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
On the function of these ecosystems.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
All the all the all the soils in the planet
that are natural soils are basically fertilized by disciples. So
another think, around seventy five percent of all the compounds
active compounds of the drugs that we use right now,
of the mazine come for plants and animals, well plants
(27:14):
and animals. So one of the most important drugs against
diabetes you know right now, the active compound comes from
melissa in Mexico that is also find in the US
is called the Hila monster or they bid Lisard who
has exposonous is one of the rarest Elisa the exposonous
(27:38):
and they found a protein in the venom that is
incredibly important to fight diabetes. And the same thing, like
around seventy percent or more of over the crops are
pollinated completely or partially by animals, by birds, by insects,
by bees, by butterflies, by bats, so we basically are
(28:05):
losing you know, the parts of these systems, these is
ecological systems that are necessary to maintain life on the
planet in general and in human life in particular. So
every time were losing species, every time we're losing populations,
we're losing the capabilities of the planet or origion to
(28:27):
maintain the conditions that has been.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
That has been those conditions have been the ones.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Who gave us such a stable, you know, environment that
has allowed us to have the well being, the development,
the culture, everything that is positive for humanity in the
last one thousand years, and we're destroying it.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
So basically, what do you say it.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
It is like if you go to the doctor and
the doctor says you people drinking, you can put using drugs,
you're going to die.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Tomorrow, and you say, well, I don't think.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
So basically that's the scale of the problem.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Also, on the one hand, we're losing thousands of times
faster species of everything microft, animals, plant function than in
the last millions of years. And second, the consequences of
losing that is affecting broadly, affecting hardly the systems and
collegal systems that provide us with these econsistent services. And
(29:34):
there is no way we can continue with the well
being and the stability of civilization. We continue destroying those
animals and those plants. And the bad news is that
we don't have much time literally at this rate. We
don't Many of my colleagues working in other issues in
(29:55):
ecology and keeping points on us, we think that we
don't have more than twenty or put in a different way,
what happened in the next twenty years will define what
survives in the planet in terms of the wild animals
and plants, and what's the fate of civil decisions, Because
if you think that we're destroying the basic things that
(30:16):
keep us aligned, eventually there will be a collapse of civilization.
That's a big risk of losing all these species. And
people say, come on hera that sounds to be too strong. Well,
what's happened with the two billion people who don't have
water already drinking water, they're in the collapse? What happened
with the people don't have enough food? What happened with
(30:38):
the people who's in the last a few two decades
there had been like one hundred and fifty million ecoloical refuge.
They have to move from places because they cannot live anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So the coloical.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
The crisis is already happening. The collapse is already happening.
We have seen how many flaws and how many terms,
and how many horrible things are associated to climate change
that is fueled by the laws of biodiversity, and the
climate change is fueling the extinction crisis.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
They have a positive need feedback.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
The more extinctions there are, the more climate change will be.
The more climate change will be, the more extinctionion will be.
So at this point is and I hope I'm wrong,
but I mean, everything is pointing to the direction. Many
scientists are, and we do it with all kind of
(31:37):
want to be very very cautious.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
I was saying it.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
But the magnitude problem is that it may cause a
regional or a global collapse of civilization in the few
next decades because of the magnitude and the importance and
relevance of what we're losing for the function of the
whole planet.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
So pretty much like the dinosaurs, the media, the media
that came and hit the Earth is pretty much was
happening through call it or the ecosystem is going to collapse,
and it's pretty much that's going to be our.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
I mean we were scientists, and what was important that
we entered the six mass extensions. We called the six
mass extensions because in the history of the last five
hundred and fifty million years of the history of the planet,
and this is when there were microscopic animals and plants,
things that we can see, and they left fossils so
(32:36):
we know where they were, where they were and on.
So during those five five hundred and fifty million years,
we know that the life has been increasing steadily except
for five times where the extinction rates were much higher
than the expecition rates, you know, and we call those
(32:57):
mass exceedinctions. There has been five mass extensions and those
fimus extinctions are basically you can define it by three things.
One is it occurred incredibly rapid in theological.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Times terms, but I mean incredibly happened. A rapid is
a hundreds.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Of thousands of a few million years. This is instantaneous.
What is happening now. Second, it was caused by a
natural catastrophe like the asteroid, the meteorite that impact Earth
and destroyed all the dinosaurs and everything else. And the
last characteristics of a ass extension that seventy percent or
more of the life on the planet was evaporated in
(33:40):
those a few thousands of countries of years, so.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
We know what's happened. So we also know that after
the crisis, life.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Rebound, you know, but it took between ten to fifteen
twenty million years tound so we don't have twenty million years.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
And the other thing is like, it's very important.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
I mean, as a scientist, let me tell you, it
gives me a little bit of a peace in my
mind knowing that life eventually will rebound in the planet.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
You know.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
But what we're talking heat right now, where we're talking
the important of this crisis and understanding this crisis is
if we continue, they will be incredibly suffering.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
For humanity in the coming.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Decades because of the massive impact of climate change, losing
this species, not having enough drinking water and not having
enough food and so on, all the problems associated of
losing the natural parts of the planet.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
All right, So I'm a big proponent, I'm supporter of
of space exploration, and you know, they want to colonize Mars,
you know, and they said, oh, in case we ever
have to, you know, move off our planet. And I
was like, well, why are you taking billions eventually trillions
(35:14):
of dollars to colonize a planet that has no way
of supporting life. Why don't you put that money into
redoing or it's like having a house, you know, instead
of going buying a brand new home, why don't you
just you know, fix up your own home that you
have now? So I don't I never excellent, Yeah, I
(35:37):
never understood that.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
It's a stupid it's a stupid idea to colonize Mars.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
How many people will be there on that zone?
Speaker 3 (35:47):
And we're eight eight billion people, more than any billion people,
so most of us will die here in the planet,
so we'd rather stay here and work together.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I'm also proponent.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
I'm fixed. I mean, one of the problems, and you
probably have seen it said the cost of conservation, the
cost of maintaining the environment, the cost of fighting climate change.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
It's not a cost.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
It's an investment, yes, because you're not using just the
money and wasted. I mean, it's an investment that we
leave you less money direct money than if you invest
in oil.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
But it will give you.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
Many other tangible and intangible benefits, you know, and it
will give you money back, for instance, protecting forests. If
you protect forests, and then you do you can you
can do for forestry, or you can do escarvecing some
minimals so you can do wildlife viewing. There are so
(36:41):
many things, you know, and uh so the first important
thing is not a cost, it's an investment. So we're invested.
We should be investing in saving ourhouse. As you said,
and I put this example. It's like if you have cancer,
you know, and you have a one million dollars in
(37:01):
your pockets. You know, you go to the doctor and
I said, okay, you have bad news is you have cancer.
Good news is cancer stage two. You can be saved.
It will cause you ten thousand dollars. We said, wow,
it's too much.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, it's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
So basically, just in mind, we need we live in
an economy that is trillions of dollars, trillions of dollars
every year, we will put a few billion dollars into
the environment, protecting all the natural econsistent that's there still there,
recovering species, restoring habitats, having more efficient technologies, more research
(37:45):
onto how we can develop things without austraying environment, and
so on, you know. But just basically we concentrate on
conservation on protecting what it is like what we have,
and restoring what we can restore. Basically, we are barely
with a few billion dollars a year we will be
able to start.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
To make a vent on the problem.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
You know, Can this be reversed? Can this be reversed
or or is it kind of just maintaining now?
Speaker 3 (38:14):
It cannot be reversed for the species that has become extinct,
It cannot reverse for some of the habitats that are
completely gong.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
But yes, definitely.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
I mean, there are plenty of really important for the
public to know and to understand, is that there are
many successful conservation stories, you know.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
I mean there are many success stories. There are many ways, many.
Speaker 3 (38:41):
Projects that have shown that you can restore certain things.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
And it will be very.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Challenging, you know, because now we have climatic climate change
on top of us. And but let's say that we
can put enough money, and we can put enough money
to start to attacked and to reduce the main impacts
of human activities. I think at.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Least if we could, if we could win two or.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Three decades to the that have it to the environmental deterioration,
I think.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
We will be in better shape. To face it.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
So on the one hand, there is hope that if
we will invest enough, we can start for at least
to stop and maybe restore part of the problem. The
main problem at this moment is that nobody, no country,
no international institution is in charge or branch. So what
(39:43):
we're putting, very little money and what little money has
been put into conservation is because of because particular groups
people is interesting in doing it. But if you think
now you tell me, like the UN for some real
things like a piece or agreements and trying to diffuse
(40:07):
work in some countries or whatever, there is nobody, no institution,
no people, no country directing the effort. So even if
now with somebody will say, you know, okay, we have okay,
we have here one trillion dollars to invest every year
to save the planet right now, there is no articulation
(40:30):
of any group at the scale that need to be done.
We have the cop you know the COP, and we
have the cup now coming soon. But it is like
I'm cynically in the sent that is okay.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
We have we have a meeting where we're going to
discover the problems, and.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Any agreement that there is there is no where we
can really make it happen at the scale, at the national,
at the global scale, because I mean, nobody's in charge,
and it's not binding.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Okay, no, no country.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
I mean all the countries can follow or not voluntarily
those agreements. And that's ridiculous in the sense that what
we need now is a strong kind of Marshall plan
after the Second World War.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
But for the planet, you.
Speaker 3 (41:25):
Know, Yeah, and my hope is humanity has shown greater
strength during times of difficult, very difficult Second World War
and so on, So maybe we're.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Going to wake up soon.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
But we have to think people like you that you know,
really dedicating your life to you know, doing these studies
and research to to give us those warnings that we
don't really here to our leaderships and know and even
just our own families. Sometimes they don't, like you said,
(42:03):
people just don't want to talk about it because it
is too depressing. But mother nature, like any mama, if
you're messing the house up, eventually she's going to kick
your butt out and just say go get your own place.
So yeah, I think the planet will be fine without us.
But you know, like you said, without us, I'm sure
(42:25):
the world would flourish. And species would continue to grow back.
But that being said, can you give us a little
bit of hope to finish up our conversation today?
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, what I say, as I say, the bison was
very I mean almost sixteen there were a few hundred
left and now there are thousands.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
In Mexico.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
We will introduce twenty three wild bison that were donated
by the US, and now there are more than six
coundred and Mexico don eight wolves, the Mexican wolves to
the US.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
And there are a hundred arround.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
And we talk about like the tiger tigers were in
really bad shape, almost one thousand and a few more.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Now there are almost five thousand strainers an elephants. I
mean in Mexico.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
We did the first chat Ward census in twenty ten,
there were four thousand animals with four dozen animals. In
twenty eighteen with the following census, and we find four thousand,
eight hundred. Even though the conditions deteriorated in many cases,
there were more, and there were more because there was
more conscience and more interest from the private industry, the
(43:36):
local people, the government. And then we finished in twenty
twenty four. The next the third census, and the good
news is there are more than five thousand. We don't
have exact name number, but there are more than five thousand,
probably five hundred animals.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
And we had words. So we have all the signs
and all the technology.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
That we require to make this happens, you know, And
this is the one one. The second thing is like,
so we have all the science and the technology that
we need to do much better what we're doing. The
second thing is that many have plenty of examples of that.
(44:20):
The third is like, I mean local people in Mexico,
in the US and away and some private.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Investors and Song have saved.
Speaker 3 (44:31):
Millions and millions and millions of acres of forests and
tropical forests and Song and it works. I have a
small I have a small NGO that we are working
with providing income, providing benefits to local people for protecting forests.
And now we have more than a half a million acres,
more than ten thousand people. And we're three people, but
(44:53):
three guys, and we none of us is rich. And
we have been able to put together this gigantic product
that and the same like us, there are many people
that I know, all of the products.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
There are the both the scientists.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
There are many politicians fighting to get it done so
and many people, I mean, like the people like listening
to this.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Podcast are basically interested. You know.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
They put water or they put plants in their gardens.
So the hope is like, on the one hand, we
should all understand.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
That this is a critical issue.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
That may collapse civilization unless we face it.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
The second is.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
We can do what we is on over hands, both
for the proper person, get involved at the local or
the national level and protecting a fight against protecting the
last foursts and so on. I mean, become an actor
and stop being an spectator, you know.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
And as a scientist.
Speaker 3 (45:55):
Let me tell you that it's very difficult to be
a scientist and a conservation is because usually the universities,
I say, they required you published papers and songs. So
most of my work on conservation I don't even have
I don't even use it at the university to be
graded because they don't understand that it's important.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yeah, but we do it.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
They want to have a say in it, I'm sure exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
So anyway, so I think I think I go to
bed every night thinking that what we do is relevant
or all the people interest in environment from your garden
to the global Second that because of the uncertainties in
(46:41):
the future, we should.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Work really hard today.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
We should take care of ourselves really hard today, and
which will enjoy life really hard today.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
Well, no more we can do for.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
The young people, Like I said, you know your generation,
my generation, I'm I'll be fifty six this year, thirty
years I'm getting I'll be definitely up there. But for
the young people that are listening to this podcast and
on TikTok and YouTube, what message would you leave the
(47:13):
younger generations, because they're they're inheriting, you know, this beautiful planet.
What would you tell them how to get involved?
Speaker 2 (47:24):
How?
Speaker 1 (47:24):
How how would they how would they make a difference
in the future.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Well, the first thing I would say to them is
not their fault, and it's not I mean, we shouldn't
we should I mean when I say, oh, the next
generation should solve the problems, I felt really irritated, really bad.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
It's not their fault. They shouldn't. We shouldn't leave it there.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
We're going to help them where many people are helping,
trying to help that they inherit something is better relievable.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
The second is if they're interested.
Speaker 3 (47:52):
This is a great challenge, but they also offers great opportunities.
I mean, if you understand what are you understand exactly
what I said, There is not a causing investment, and
you understand what kind of investment, you can restore habitats,
and you can and you can produce wealth in terms
of knowledge, in terms of money for local people and
(48:15):
for the country and zone.
Speaker 2 (48:17):
It seemed to me that.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
It is very complicated situation, but as such there is.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
A great opportunities.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
As I said, But also if I were there, and
also like you am sixty something already, you know, but
I try to enjoy every day I see. I mean
my suggestion will be the future is uncertain. They should
do their best to try to maintain the planet, you know,
(48:49):
at least the way they got it, you know. But
it's too beautiful to be depressed and thinking too far away.
They shouldn't be to be thinking about twenty fifty, I mean,
fifty forty, fifty, sixty years old.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
They should be.
Speaker 3 (49:05):
Focusing in shorter term things that can do and that
should enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
I agree. I agree, because last.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
And last too long, it won't it won't hurt that
you enjoy it, and if it lasts longer, it willn't
hurt that you enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
No, I go up into the mountains and the you know,
all over this country and world and just just amazed
by the beautiful world we live in. It's you know,
it's starting.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
And well, thank you so much for being on Tribute
Told and giving us this amazing presentation of what you
do and what hopefully people will get involved in. People
can go. Is this your website right, Eco labunom E
collab dot com. Yes, yeah, and can they donate if
(49:58):
they want to donate to help with any causes or
how do they get.
Speaker 3 (50:01):
Yeah, your book have projects where they can help to
We're saying, for instance, these places in this the force
in Mexico, the yeah we're device on. Yeah, they can
even get involved in any grace And well, thank you
very much for for I mean, I really appreciate when
people like you take time to expose these issues because
that's the only way.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
That's one way we have.
Speaker 3 (50:22):
To be able to make more people understanding the magnitude
the urgency, but also what we can do to save
our planet.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
Yes, together we can do it. And but thank you
and thank you everybody for tuning in. We really appreciate it.
You guys are always amazing of sharing the show, leaving
great comments and just you know, supporting us by just
telling a friend. And you know, after almost sixteen years
of doing this, I still get fascinated and excited like
(50:55):
people like doctor Gerardo. So but thank you. Please take
care of yourself and each other again, share the show.
We love you, and until next time, I'm Tony Sweet
and I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Bye,
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