September 16, 2025 • 49 mins
On this special episode of Truth In The Barrel, Amy has a frank conversation with Marine Pilot and Veterans advocate, Dr. Kyleanne Hunter about the abysmal state of the VA and what can be done to improve it. What level of care do our female soldiers receive post-Dobbs and what forces are at work to undermine the promises we’ve made to our combat Veterans under President Trump.
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Amy and Denver are both military veterans, political junkies, and whiskey lovers who sit on opposite sides of the aisle but have one thing in common: they love the United States of America.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, everyone.
Welcome to Truth in the Barrel (00:00):
Devil's Cut Edition.
I'm Amy McGrath.
Today, we're talking with Dr. Kai Hunter, the CEO of the Iraq Afghanistan Veterans of America.
She's also a former Marine Corps pilot.
We do a deep dive into the federal policies that affect veterans in America today, which is what she works on.
(00:22):
We also talk about what it's like to be a woman in the Marine Corps, and share what it's like to fly high performance aircraft, jets and helicopters, in combat. 8 00:00:32,560.0000000000036 --> 00:00:34,040 Thanks for tuning in.
Here we go.
Hi, Kai.
Great to have you here today.
.99999999999272Thank you so much for having me.
I wanna start out, um, you're, you're the, the CEO of the Iraq and Afghanistan Veteran of America, uh, organization, and we're gonna talk about that, and we're gonna talk about the, the VA and veterans in general.
(00:54):
But I wanted to start with your background, because you are a veteran.
Uh, you were a Marine, you were a pilot, uh, like I was.
And, um, so just tell us, wh- why, why did you join the Marine Corps to begin with?
Yeah.
So for me, joining the Marine Corps, it was really a sort of a 3pronged decision when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life.
(01:19):
Um, I knew I wanted a job that wasn't necessarily traditional.
You know, I had a lot of friends from growing up who went into just what you think of as, like, kind of the normal professions that everyone knows about, right?
You know, teachers, lawyers, bankers type, type thing that you have.
And I knew I wanted something that wasn't where I was gonna be sitting in an office all day long and working.
(01:39):
I wanted something that was a little different.
Um, I also knew I wanted something that had a service component to it, a job that wasn't just about me.
I didn't want to, you know, uh
Maybe it was the little bit of the still of San Francisco growing up in me that I didn't wanna, like, be a slave for the man either the whole time.
You know, wanted, wanted something where I was actually giving back, I was doing, I was doing good, and I was a part of, uh, something bigger than myself.
(02:04):
That was always really, really important for me.
And, um, and I also wanted a job that, like, was adventurous.
You know, when I was young, in particular, like, what other opportunity do you have to go do things that might take you all over the world, do things that are, are physically very hard, that are, uh, you know, intellectually tough, that are, you know, kind of cool, right?
(02:26):
You can do that in your 20s, uh, at the right time to do it.
And, and the Marine Corps really was the intersection of all of those things for me.
There was that sense of adventure, that sense of it being something that was, uh, was difficult, but was really rooted in service and values and in doing things beyond just your, just yourself, right?
(02:46):
No one who's a Marine does it just selfishly for them.
So that's what drew me to the Marine Corps.
And so what drew you to flying?
Um, well, so now that I know how recruiters work, I got tricked into flying.
I think at, uh, at this point, you know, when I was talking to the officer selection office, um, he had told me that I could
if I
(03:06):
I could take an air contract or a ground contract.
I was super ignorant.
I didn't really know what that, the difference was at, at that point, other than air.
I'm like, "Oh, that's like flying, like Top Gun, and that would be cool."
And, but when he was telling me this, he was like, "Well, you know, if you're an air contract, you can fly whatever you want," right?
As, as a woman in particular, he
So he really sold this like, "You can do, do anything.
You can fly any of the things."
(03:27):
He's like," And if you have a ground contract, you might be like a secretary to a general or something like that."
And I was like, "Well, I wanna do the cool," right?
"I wanna do the cool and the tough thing that, that was there that was, that was different."
So I got tricked into it a little bit.
Now I know that they needed pilots, and so, you know, they, they were gonna sell that one, uh, sell that one hard, hard for me.
But uh, it was, uh, an awesome, uh, yeah, opportunity.
(03:48):
Yeah.
And this, and this was a year
So y- you are my timeframe.
This was- Mm-hmm.
the time when women could do all the aviation jobs, uh, combat aviation jobs in the Marine Corps, but could not do all of the ground combat jobs.
Now, since then, all of those have been open.
But at that time when we started out, aviation was open to us.
(04:11):
So if you, if you wanted to sort of be on the tip of the spear and you wanted to go to combat and you wanted to do that, that sort of, that kind of stuff, you had to go into aviation.
Yeah.
And, and that was a, another piece of it.
I, I always thought too, like, "If I'm gonna be a Marine, I should go be a Marine, right?
Do the most tip of the spear thing that is possible for me to do."
(04:33):
And that was.
It was also, I think, you know, and it, it being that time when, uh, combat aviation had just opened up, it was also a place of, like, real opportunity in the Marine Corps.
'Cause like as you had said, on the ground side, not everything was open.
Which in the back of my mind, I always had a fear that that would sort of hinder my ability to grow if I wasn't able to be part of the sort of most tip of the spear of the community that, that I was in.
(05:02):
And that's really real in the Marine Corps - Very real in the Marine Corps.
because, uh, they, they valued, um, uh, what was called combat arms jobs in order to be promoted and, um, respected at a certain level within the Marine Corps.
So then you, you went on, you became a Cobra pilot, which is an attack helicopter, uh, combat tours.
(05:22):
Uh, what did you, what did you learn coming out of, of your combat tours?
So it was a really interesting time in my own life when I think back into the sort of combat time.
It was, in some ways, some of the most simple times that we had, 'cause I had one job, and I knew what my job was, and I knew what I had to do to achieve the mission.
(05:46):
And that sense where everyone, regardless of gender, race, religious background, right?
Like there is some simplicity in the fact that we had a job, we knew what that job was.
It was a, you know, uh, a difficult job.
But it was simple 'cause we were all moving towards the same
(06:06):
the same outcome, right?
The same, the same purpose.
And so, you know, one of the things for me that I, I, I really learned and took, you know, took to heart and have, uh, really pushed throughout the rest of my career is that really that importance of tax, task-based cohesion, right?
We were a group of people who were super different.
(06:28):
So, I mean, this is one thing about the military broadly, right?
You don't have any control over who you're sorting with.
You don't have any control over who you are gonna be in the aircraft with on any given day, or who's gonna be working on your aircraft, right?
You have people who come together that otherwise wouldn't be, right?
These are people that wouldn't
I don't think there's any other way in which this group of people will have come together.
(06:50):
But you give them a task, particularly one that's hard and difficult, everybody starts moving together.
Everyone becomes, you know, a, a r- really strong, cohesive unit that works really, really well together.
And it, you know, it, it was a lesson coming out of combat that I, I try to really keep to heart, right?
(07:11):
If you want to get a group of diverse people working together, give them something hard to do.
But then you also see how beneficial diversity is, right?
I think we both have had those experiences where when you've got to go do something really, really difficult, when you get people who are thinking differently and working differently together to do it, it, it works really, really well, particularly if you're, you're bringing it around a task that we have there.
(07:32):
You know, and then, I think from a personal level, thinking about learning things in combat, like, I learned I can do really hard things.
Yeah.
You know, I think that, that it, it's become, you know, it's become one of those things that, you know, we can do hard things is, like, almost used as, like, a slogan, like, back of the napkin bumpens- bumper sticker type thing now.
But, I mean, I think for an
(07:54):
.0000000000582And I, I'm sure you had these experiences too, where you were like, "I"
Like, that was, that was hard, like, fundamentally hard, tactically, physically, emotionally.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, I can do it.
And there is a confidence in, you know, facing other challenges of, you know, if I could, if I could do this, right?
(08:14):
If I could learn how to fly a Cobra, if I could learn how to fly a helicopter, number one, right?
Then fly an attack helicopter, and then fly an attack helicopter in a combat zone- Yeah.
you know?
Like, okay, I can do a lot of things.
Y- Y- You can.
I, I always equate when, when people have asked me, "Well, what, what is it like flying a fighter jet?"
.0000000000582What is it like in that kind of high performance aviation combat, that kind of thing? 112 00:08:38,364.0000000000582 --> 00:08:56,524 And I, and I've tried to equate it for them, and I said, "You know, it's sort of like, um, the, the way you feel when you have walked off the field from a soccer match in which was the, uh, the state championship.
(08:56):
You have given everything.
You have no more ounce left in you.
That's how you feel physically.
You're just drenched in sweat, and you're, you're physically drained."
That, plus, you remember the feeling you had after you walked out of, like, the ACT and the SAT- Yeah.
like, taking a really hard test where your, your mind is just sort of mush because you've been thinking so hard.
(09:23):
And then you add in the way you feel after, like, a really tough, um, radio interview or something- Mm-hmm.
where you have to, like, continually talk and listen and, you know, you've got a lot going on and, and you've got an earpiece in your ear.
I mean, it's
You just feel spent because you- Mm-hmm.
(09:43):
have given everything.
It's sort of like the ultimate challenging job.
That's how I- Yeah.
try to describe it to people.
Yeah.
Well, a- and it's, it's the time when you have that combined, as you said, physical, intellectual, but then you have to be anticipatory in thinking about it too, right?
So it's not even just being reactive, but now, "Okay, well, what am I going to do next?"
And the, one of the things, and you, I mean, your aircraft was much, much faster than mine, but thinking ahead, you know, th- as you're learning to fly, there was a given
(10:10):
Think ahead of the aircraft that you have there, which I think just makes the brain fatigue always that much more too.
'Cause it's not even like you can react in the, "Oh, I'm crossing the street and I see something coming and I'm walking, you know, 2 miles an hour."
You're, have to think so much faster too.
You do, but, but also my aircraft was higher up, you know?
Where you were lower.
(10:31):
And that, that folks is way more dangerous.
So, uh, you know, let's, let's not kid ourselves.
I'm not down at, at 200 or 300 feet.
Uh, if I do go down that, that far, it's, it's for a very s- short, split second time.
You're down there all the time.
And the, the other piece of it, not to get into the, the super weeds of flying though, but the, like the, from being lower, the sensory aspect of that too, the things that like, the changes in smells and textures and even temperatures that you would feel when you were flying, which is a weird, like very different.
(11:04):
You're like, "I'm in an aircraft," but all of the sensory stuff that's happening on the ground is being experienced in a different way, which just adds to an interesting emotional fatigue.
From like the sensory, you know, absorbing so much at, uh, at once.
.9999999998836But, you know, you served, you did those really hard things, served our country, wore the uniform, United States Marine, and then, you know, y- you got out and you became a PhD. 145 00:11:32,319.9999999998836 --> 00:11:33,319.9999999998836 You, you, you went- Mm-hmm. 146 00:11:33,319.9999999998836 --> 00:11:38,540 back to school and, um, did lots of different things.
(11:38):
And now you're in charge of the, what I think is the post, premier post-9/11 veterans organization in the country, which is Iraq Afghanistan Veterans of America.
And I- I'm, uh, I wanna get into, to that, um, but why did you want to get a PhD?
(11:58):
Before we get into what's going on in the VA- Yeah.
and that sort of thing.
So for me, it wa- the impetus is really when, um, when I was on the Hill.
So I was a, a legislative fellow, similar to, you were a legislative fellow as well in, in the House.
Which is something that I still encourage anyone in uniform to go do, like actually spending that time and understanding how policy is made, how the decisions that impact us when we're wearing the uniform is made, is such, such an important thing to, to do.
(12:28):
Um, and then I worked in the, the Office of Legislative Affairs, you know, the, for the, the bigger Marine Corps.
And at that time, there were, uh, several pretty significant personnel changes that were happening.
The Don't Ask, Don't Tell was, was being repealed when we were there.
It was the initial, um, some of the initial legislation around the removal of the women in ground combat, uh, exclusion, or the attempts to get that in.
(12:54):
Right?
There was a, we, they didn't actually become legislation, it was duty policy, but there were a lot of those debates, um, on the Hill that were going on, and the women in submarines was happening- Yeah.
around all this time too.
And one of the things that was very, very stark to me was that there was a lot of passion and emotion on both sides of the, of the discussion, right?
(13:16):
People really, really cared.
Which is important, right?
We need people in policy to care and go out and be passionate and care about it.
But emotion doesn't actually write good policy or good implementation plans.
And one of the things that I became very, very stark to me was that, and this, and the Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal is really what hammered home for me the decision to go get a doctorate, was that there was not a lot of research being done on really this connection between personnel and who serves and what personnel policy is, and the, the people side, to the more operational or, you know, strategic aspects of the military, right?
(13:58):
Like, how do these people, the fact that we are saying, "We need more diversity and we need people to bring their full and authentic selves and who they are to the military," there was just very little research that connected the 2.
And the same thing when I tried to dig in, um, you know, on women in particular and women in the military.
.00000000011642And there's a lot of studies that will count the numbers of women, right? 170 00:14:17,170.00000000011642 --> 00:14:23,040 "Oh, we have 20 women in this unit and, uh, 10% of women over here."
(14:23):
Right?
But not a lot that really dug into why all of this matters.
And so for me- Mm-hmm.
I said, "Well, if this research doesn't exist, I'm gonna go figure out how to do it."
.9999999998836But also, my time on the Hill taught me that data and evidence and research is really essential to give voice and support to our most vulnerable in policy debates and discussion. 176 00:14:43,839.9999999998836 --> 00:14:53,339.9999999998836 And those people who can't necessarily advocate for themselves and aren't in the position to, you know, stand up and, and have a voice for a huge variety of different reasons. 177 00:14:53,339.9999999998836 --> 00:14:57,469 We can get into, to why that, that happens, but that research can do that.
(14:57):
And if it doesn't exist, I'll figure out how to do it myself.
I mean, good on you, 'cause it takes a, a lot of years.
And I, I, I- I feel that too.
A lot of times in policy, especially around the military and personnel, there is a lot of emotion.
And there's not a, a ton of data to back up some of these things.
I mean, I think about the women in combat piece, uh, and that's, that's a discussion that, that we should have at some point.
(15:26):
.99999999988358Um, but there was so much emotion tied around that, and still is. 185 00:15:33,79.99999999988358 --> 00:15:55,376 You know, with our current Secretary of Defense, one of the things that, that struck me when he was i- in his confirmation hearings, he was able to get away with so much bullshit, with so much sitting in that chair, saying all this, all these things about women in the military based on absolutely nothing other than his hunch.
(15:55):
He had no data to back it up at all.
And, and it just, it was, and it was infuriating to me, uh, when I, when I saw.
.0000000001164And it was almost the opposite. 189 00:16:04,660.0000000001164 --> 00:16:08,553 The dataGo- show the opposite story, right?
That's the, like the data, if you want to actually follow where the data are and let the data speak for themselves, the data tell the complete 180 out story than is being told with a lot of the em- the emotion, right?
(16:22):
If we look at these, um, you know, we, we, we look at these units that are integrated, we look at where women have become part of particularly sort of forward operational units, whether that's tactical aviation, you know, combatant ships, and now ground combat units, the more integrated units actually are better at solving complex problems.
(16:44):
And at the end of the day, like a lot of what we do in the military is solve complex problems.
It's not just how fast can you, you know, how fast can you run an obstacle course.
.00000000011642There is, it's only matters that you can run it fast if you can actually do the thing at the end that you are expected to do, right? 195 00:17:00,64.00000000011642 --> 00:17:02,684 There's not a like stopwatch in war.
Right.
It, it is, it is complex problem solving.
(17:05):
.999999999883585But also from a, a personnel and like well-being and treatment, um, perspective, integrated units have lower instances of sexual harassment and sexual assault and just general harassment and bad behavior. 199 00:17:20,23.999999999883585 --> 00:17:27,844 Because when you're working shoulder to shoulder with someone, again doing that really hard thing, it becomes a lot harder to actually dehumanize them.
(17:27):
Yeah.
It becomes a lot harder to degrade or, or denigrate them- Yeah.
than if you're separated and you can really otherize people.
There's a, there's a respect thing going on.
And I saw it, you know, I saw it in my time in the Marine Corps.
Mm-hmm.
You know, when I was a junior officer, um, the, the respect wasn't there as much because I didn't have the qualifications.
(17:50):
So there was- Right.
there was more sort of locker room antics, shall we say, um, denigration of, of women and all of that.
By the time I rose through the ranks, and it wasn't just me, I was surrounded with other women who, who did the same thing, um, you know, it was harder for- Mm-hmm.
for folks to get away with what in my mind that really unprofessional type of behavior- Yep.
(18:14):
because now you're the one with the qual.
Yeah, exactly.
You're, you're, you're the one with, with, with the experience.
And, and, and, and also your peers have been your peers the whole way.
Where I was, I was one of these few, um, Marines, female Marines at, at the time that was integrated in my training.
(18:37):
I'd never had segregated training because I went through the Naval Academy, I went through the Naval Academy's, um, uh, weeding out process to go, to become a Marine, and then the basic school.
Mm-hmm.
All of those things when I went through were, were, were all with men.
And I, so my experience in, in that has, has shown me and my belief is that that was always a better way.
(19:02):
.99999999976717It- Because, um, when, when somebody is next to you and does the 20-mile hike with you and carries the same load as you and does the exact same thing, boy, they see it. 221 00:19:14,83.99999999976717 --> 00:19:15,204 They lived it.
.00000000023283Mm-hmm. 223 00:19:15,244.00000000023283 --> 00:19:20,524 It's very hard for them to say, "Oh, no, no, no, she didn't, they didn't do, she didn't do it."
.99999999976717No, no, man, I was right there next to you. 225 00:19:22,83.99999999976717 --> 00:19:23,43.99999999976717 Right there. 226 00:19:23,43.99999999976717 --> 00:19:23,194 Yeah.
(19:23):
I'm talking about
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, my, my training is well all integrated and it is, right?
.9999999997672When it's much harder to segregate, but then it also, you know, if we go back to some of the, the studies, like studies in air quotes that were done around like the women in ground combat exclusion, if we look at the ones that they tried to say, "Oh, well, like a group of all men is faster than a group of all women."
(19:45):
Well, you took groups and you kept them completely segregated from each other and you, in those studies that were done, they were typically male combat arm units that had been together for decades, right?
Often deployed together.
And then you just patch a bunch of women together who had never been in a unit together before and give them like a week to train, right?
.99999999976717It goes back to, and, and I think it, it tells exactly the same story you are, right? 235 00:20:08,63.99999999976717 --> 00:20:21,704 When you work side by side with people, not only do you see them do, do the thing and you build trust around their, their character, but you build efficiencies in how you do things together and you work together and you become a more cohesive team.
(20:21):
And it's, you see that if you were to remove one of those members, the whole team is gonna fail.
And so if you take women away, in this perspective, you're going to
Everybody is going to ultimately fail.
Tha- that's a great discussion.
I, I do wanna get into veterans and what's going on right now, because there
I, I don't think there's anybody out there who is more in tune with, uh, the needs of veterans, with what is happening.
(20:47):
I mean, this is what you do and what you've dedicated yourself to, to do as the CEO of the, the post-9/11 advocacy organization IAVA.
And so you are, are in the weeds.
And we, we hear this a lot about, um, we all wanna help veterans and, and that sort of thing.
And so my goal in this show today was to spend some time with you, for you to, to tell our listeners a little bit more about, um, what is happening to veterans from the policy perspective right now, uh, with this current administration, and kinda give us a, a, a sense of where veterans are at.
(21:27):
And so I'm, I'm gonna- Mm-hmm.
ask you a bunch of questions.
But the way I, I talk about veterans' benefits to people is I say, "You know, veterans sign their name on the dotted line for 4 years, at least for 4 years, and that Uncle Sam can send that young person, usually young person, man or woman, anywhere in the world, possibly s- uh, send them into harm's way, and ask them to go to combat, putting their life i- at risk, po- potentially.
(22:00):
And in return, we give them a deal.
And the deal is you get 3, in my mind, sort of basic benefits, which I don't believe, and we, we could have this discussion, but I don't believe are
those benefits are, like, super incredible, okay?"
Yep.
"I think they're, they're good, but this is kinda the handshake deal.
(22:22):
And the first benefit is healthcare.
You know?
Our nation has said, "You're a vet.
You deserve healthcare for the rest of your life.
Not for your family, you know?
Not for your mom or your dad or even your kids, but you as a veteran will get quality healthcare for the rest of your life.
That's number one.
Number 2, you will get the GI Bill, the GI benefits.
(22:43):
Educational benefits.
We will help you if you want to, to go to college or go to a trade school.
Uncle Sam will pay for a lot of it.
Now, if you wanna go to Harvard, Uncle Sam's not gonna pay for all of it."
"You know?
But, but, but it, it's, it's decent.
It's a really good-" Mm-hmm.
" benefit.
And then the, the third piece is, um, housing, which is not
(23:05):
I- it's not
The government doesn't give you a house.
It gives you a modest VA loan, which isn't, you know, 0%.
It's, it's whatever the percentage rate.
.0000000002328I tell people it's, it's slightly lower than the normal percentage rate, but it's, it's modest. 276 00:23:20,860.0000000002328 --> 00:23:21,776 And that's it.
Do we-" Mm-hmm.
"There's nothing, there's nothing else."
You know?
(23:25):
And so I wanna start by asking you about the first one, which is healthcare.
Um, this administration has, has done a lot of moves.
They've just banned, uh, reproductive healthcare for women in terms of, uh, abortions at, at, at, at, uh, VA centers, or the ability for, for women vets to get these procedures, even in the case of rape, okay?
(23:51):
Or, or, or something, you know?
Or sexual assault.
Um, and that's just kind of a start.
But there's also, uh, the move to fire many people who work at VA healthcare centers.
.99999999976717I think there's been thousands that have already either quit or fired under this administration. 288 00:24:14,389.99999999976717 --> 00:24:21,519 So I'm gonna start there and kinda ask you to give us an assessment of where VA healthcare is right now.
(24:21):
Yeah.
So, I mean, I think your breakdown is also really good, right?
In terms of the things that, that we get.
And I would agree with you that they're, they're good.
It's not like they are
you know, we're getting showered in, in riches with these things.
But if we wanna just focus on healthcare right now, VA healthcare, I think to set a little bit of a stage and then go to where we are right now, the outcomes, right?
(24:41):
If we, we go back again to the data, what the data say is that VA care, and particularly VA direct care, does result in much better physical health outcomes for veterans than civilian healthcare does.
And that is largely for, for 3 re- 3 reasons.
One is an actual culturally competent understanding of what members of the military go through, right?
(25:08):
And that is everything from knowing, like, for those of us who went downrange and deployed, where we were and what things we could have been exposed to, so we can do some preemptive and proactive screening for particular, uh, you know?
Whether they're cancers- Like toxic exposures.
Also, with regards to things like military sexual trauma and assault, right?
Understanding how that may integrate with other physical and mental health, health aspects, right?
(25:33):
So that military cultural care, uh, competent care is really, really important.
The next is that VA care is a patient-centered model for care.
And, and it is built around what is referred to as patient-aligned care teams, which
The care teams, they're not necessarily physicians.
They're usually, you know, administrative positions, which gets into some of the concerns about who's getting fired right now and who is leaving- Mm-hmm.
(25:54):
right now, even if they say, "Well, it's not direct healthcare providers." 309 00:25:58,639.9999999997672 --> 00:26:01,296 You know, these patient-aligned care teams ensure that-
the veteran's military record is fully integrated.
So you don't have to go around and sort of retell your, your story to every single person that you see.
Um, they know, they, they a- have a full view of your physical and mental health record.
It also takes the burden for scheduling and care integration off of the individual, right?
(26:20):
So it, it is a patient
The VA was designed with the veteran at its core, not
Unlike a lot of the, the private healthcare, you know, systems which- It's not for profit.
Yeah.
It's not for profit, that you have there.
The
And then, third, and I think what's really most important for the, the, the post-9/11 generation, where we are the most diverse generation of veteran that's there.
(26:44):
I know that's sadly a, a dirty word right now, but like, we are.
It's just the reality of it that's there, is that for, for women and for people of color, in the civilian world, they're much less likely to be assumed to be a veteran.
And so if you- Yeah.
.0000000002328The 325 00:26:59,744.0000000002328 --> 00:27:13,324 For, for women who, who go out to try to get care in the community, they often have to spend a lot of time justifying why they're asking for things like earlier mammograms, or different reproductive health screenings that are there because of their exposures.
(27:13):
Because it's not assumed, right, that you were, that you were in the military.
And, and often we've seen, there's been like critical missing of, of cancers.
Of, uh, chronic diseases and illnesses.
Right.
So, so to set the standard that, that VA care is better.
But we're seeing, uh, 3, 3 things happen right now that are really, really troubling and concerning, and that we're hearing a lot about from our, our members as being troubling and, and concerning.
(27:39):
Um, one is, as you mentioned, sort of at the end, a, a very systematic dismantling of women's healthcare within the- Yeah.
the VA, that we're seeing.
That we are just, whether it was, you know, even on social media, the merging of women's, the women's centers with like the big VA social media thing.
.00000000023283And they're like, "Oh, we'll still give you the information." 336 00:27:58,264.00000000023283 --> 00:28:00,604 It's like, yeah, but will you?
(28:00):
Right?
Like if, if you're not specifically thinking about this, is it actually gonna be targeted and, and, um, done well here?
And I always try to keep in mind that if you're doing a 4year enlistment and you go in at the age of 18, you come out at the age of 22.
Yeah.
.9999999997672I mean, you know, you're a woman, a woman vet could be 23 years old. 342 00:28:19,793.9999999997672 --> 00:28:20,208 Mm-hmm.
(28:20):
Yeah.
You know, do they necessarily want to be hanging out with the 75-year-old dudes in the, you know, in the clinic there, right?
.99999999976717There, there's a lot of, of, of concern, yes, particularly for these, these young women, right? 346 00:28:33,83.99999999976717 --> 00:28:35,644 So we're seeing this dismantling of some of the women's centers.
The, the reproductive healthcare attacks.
You know, and this is one of the things where, you know, from even just our membership, across the political spectrum, so this was not a partisan sentiment.
(28:47):
But across the political spectrum, we have a, um, you know, a real desire for the VA to step in in the post-Dobbs environment for women to be taken care of.
.9999999997672You know, and that was, you know, over 70% of our members, regardless of political affiliation, said, "No. 351 00:29:06,563.9999999997672 --> 00:29:21,074 We need to ensure that women have access to the full suite of reproductive healthcare," because women veterans are more likely to have pregnancy com- uh, complications than their age-matched civilian peers.
(29:21):
And so we need to have competent healthcare providers.
And what we've seen in the post-Dobbs environment broadly is a, an OB-GYN flight from a lot of states.
And now- Yeah.
the V-
And the VA was sort of one of the last places where there was, you know, g- good, competent care, th- or at least information about care.
(29:42):
.9999999997672And now, and now that's going away. 358 00:29:43,583.9999999997672 --> 00:29:44,464 And now that's going away.
And- Under this administration.
.0000000002328And uh, it's, it's removing one more option. 361 00:29:49,724.0000000002328 --> 00:29:57,844 And then finally, we have a lot of concerns about how opaque the process has been of any of these changes that are happening to the VA.
You know, we're, we're hearing a lot of, um, you know, "Oh, don't
(30:02):
You know, trust us.
.0000000002328It's gonna be okay. 365 00:30:03,744.0000000002328 --> 00:30:07,384 There's no direct care, uh, providers that are, are gone."
.9999999997672Well, we've known for decades that there's been shortages of critical staff, right? 367 00:30:12,583.9999999997672 --> 00:30:12,594 Mm-hmm.
Like the VA has had a, a critical staffing problem for a while, right, particularly with mental health care providers, but then with some of the specialists as, as well.
And, I mean, and this is something that all the VSOs have been harping on.
(30:25):
And then to say, "Oh, we're gonna-" VSos are Veteran's- Veterans, yeah.
Veterans, yeah.
Organizations.
Veteran's Orga- Like your VFW, American Legion, that sort of thing.
Yeah, yeah.
Everyone has been really, really concerned around the, you know, lack of s- critical staff that we, that we see.
And now, you know, we're saying, "Oh, we're gonna have fewer people at the VA, we're gonna make it more difficult to, to hire."
(30:47):
Like, that's not putting the veteran first, and there's a lot, a lot of concern from, from our members there.
I'm worried about the state of the VA.
I, I, you know, I, I fear when you, when you read stories about, "Oh, we, we really wanna plan to cut, you know, 60,000 workers from around the VA health clinics around the nation."
(31:09):
I, I, y- there's no way in my mind that you can cut those types of jobs, uh, who many of those people that work at the VA by the way are veterans themselves, uh, and not affect the healthcare of veterans.
You're hearing stories of, you know, veterans having to, uh, call in and not being able to get to anyone to get appointments, and all this stuff.
(31:34):
So, I mean, I'm, I'm worried, uh, currently.
But, you know, thanks for givin' an assessment here.
Well
And, and there's also a lot of the staff that they're saying, okay, it's not a direct, maybe it's not a, an RN or an MD that you have, right?
But your, your janitorial staff at hospitals are essential and critical workers, right?
(31:56):
'Cause if you don't have a fully clean and sanitary and safe medical environment, you can't practice medicine, right?
That is a, and like, so, you know, it may not be a clinician, but it's an essential piece of the healthcare puzzle.
Same with a lot of your, your lab techs, right?
Who bring in, like, literally just run samples around, right?
Though they may not be directly interfacing with the patient, but they provide critical functions without which healthcare is not gonna, not gonna work.
(32:25):
I'm a little more cynical about this-
um, in terms of the Trump administration and Republicans in general.
I'm, I'm, my belief is they're trying to, to, to break it, um, and i- in order to privatize it, you know.
.0000000002328Um, I'm, I'm very worried about that for all the reasons you talked about earlier is that th- the VA is a, is a promise. 396 00:32:47,860.0000000002328 --> 00:32:50,900 The, the healthcare is a promise to our veterans.
(32:50):
And, uh, I just don't think in this country we have, um, shown that, you know, um, f- fapping that out to the highest bidder on the private side is the way to go, um, i- in my mind.
But I wanna move on to GI benefits, 'cause that's the second piece, uh, that is really being affected right now.
(33:12):
We had, e- earlier this year we had, you know, the DOJ, um, y- people come in and do this sort of sweep of federal agencies.
They've ripped into the Department of Education, they've ripped into the Department of Labor.
And for a lot of people they're like, "Okay, well how does that affect me?"
Well, it affects veterans- Right.
(33:33):
because, uh, there's 100
uh, 600,000 veterans right now who use GI benefits.
And the GI benefits are your educational benefits.
They, and they have to be managed by, uh, the government.
And so we're seeing delays in these educational benefits right now.
And when you see these delays, you know, uh, veterans start to drop out of school.
(33:57):
I mean they can't pay for it.
Mm-hmm.
So what are your thoughts on, on what's going on?
Yeah.
And, and so what we're hearing is that, um, there's, there's huge delays in sort of 2 prong.
.99999999976717One is actually getting the schools paid, right? 415 00:34:09,239.99999999976717 --> 00:34:17,920 So the money from the government that's supposed to go to the school to pay tuition for these folks is being delayed by up to 6 months in some cases.
(34:17):
.00000000023283And so veterans are receiving bills, right? 417 00:34:20,220.00000000023283 --> 00:34:32,989.9999999997672 Receiving bills for tens of thousands of dollars that they weren't expecting to have, 'cause the school is basically like, "You're enrolled, and so your options are pay and hope that the GI Bill actually comes back to reimburse you-" Mm-hmm. 418 00:34:32,989.9999999997672 --> 00:34:40,199.99999999976717 " take out student loans to, to make up the difference and then again hope the GI Bill comes back to, to actually reimburse you, or drop out of school." 419 00:34:40,199.99999999976717 --> 00:34:40,320.00000000023283 Right? 420 00:34:40,320.00000000023283 --> 00:34:48,144.00000000023283 So that's the one is we're seeing, and unfortunately we're seeing, uh, a non-insignificant number of veterans just drop out of school because they don't wanna assume that risk. 421 00:34:48,699.9999999997672 --> 00:34:56,480 But these are also payments, and you get basic housing allowance payments as, you know, a s- full time student on the GI Bill.
(34:56):
That's actually a, a pretty decent amount.
You know, you get paid as a, uh, an E5 with dependents, which is a, a decent chunk to pay for, for rent or a mortgage.
And if you're a full time student, you're not bringing in a lot of other income, um, generally.
And so those payments are late as well, which also then creates a, creates a unfortunate housing crisis for veterans, right?
'Cause if you're reliant on, you know, and most, especially if we're looking at, you know, back to your example of someone who signed up for 4 years is now in their early 20s, going to school full time, they don't have a whole lot of like equity and just ready cash sitting around to be able- Right.
(35:34):
to, you know, pay rent.
Right?
And so you've got a- Yeah.
dropping out of school and now facing housing insecurity, and that's a bad thing, right?
For all the talk of like we want to combat veterans' homelessness, we want better veterans employment, well the best way to do that is, is still education.
Right?
Education still is a solid pathway to better y- financial and housing outcomes, and we're making it harder.
(35:57):
And we're making it harder for no reason, right?
This i- there's no efficiency gains-
and making it difficult, other than the efficiency gain as we have people not in school.
Like, that just doesn't seem very efficient- Yeah.
to me.
Yeah.
The other thing that is very, very concerning is that, um, a few years ago, uh, the, the veteran advocate community had worked, um, very hard to close what's referred to as the 90/10 loophole.
(36:22):
And this is a super wonky thing about how schools get their money.
But basically, when we closed the loophole, what happened was that predatory for-profit colleges, right?
The ITT Tech, even if that's still around uh, you know, in the world, the Grand Canyon- Mm-hmm.
um, University, the University of Phoenix, right?
These schools that are, are for-profit and often end up with kind of junk degrees.
(36:45):
Like, they're not, you're not actually getting the degree that you're, you're paying for.
So, there were protections against these schools preying on veterans and their GI Bill benefits, right?
And the- Yeah.
the CFPB, the Consumer, um, Financial Protection Bureau, actually did a lot to recover GI Bill funds from these for-profit places and restore them to the veterans, so they could go use them at, you know, better schools and, and more- And better schools, yeah.
(37:08):
good programs, right?
Well, those rules were, where the 90/10 loophole didn't, you know, we were able to prevent it from fully coming back, the Department of Education changed the rules on how they do accreditation and determine for-profit status, which is now several entities that were deemed not accredited, not eligible for GI Bill benefits, are now eligible again.
(37:32):
And of course, you see these ads, right?
These, these ads pop up everywhere now, on Military Times and on- Yeah.
you know, any of these sites.
And it's, it, again, this is one of the things that feels very intentional, because the, you know, the CEOs and the presidents of the boards of these schools now have people working in the Department of Education, right, who are now taking- Sure.
(37:54):
They-
the GI Bill benefits- They want the money.
And- Yeah.
.99999999953434And so, we're, we're, we're m- putting those that are trying to get their education at a huge disadvantage from delays, while also, reopening veterans to predatory institutions in- Yeah. 460 00:38:10,471.99999999953434 --> 00:38:12,624 in ways that are gonna end up harming them in the long run too.
Yeah.
And here's another thing I want, I wanna read to you.
(38:15):
This is, um, this was from a Los Angeles Times article about the GI benefits and what is happening right now, and they interviewed, uh, a Navy vet.
This is a, a 33-year-old Navy vet in Colorado, who said, quote, "The whole process has become a mess, uh, and it's making a lot of us very anxious."
(38:35):
And he's talking about, you know, the, these benefits sort of going away, can't get ahold of anyone.
But here's the thing that, that struck me.
He asked that his name not be disclosed for fear of reprisal from federal authorities.
.00000000046566This is what you're seeing more and more and more of. 469 00:38:54,412.00000000046566 --> 00:39:01,832 I mean, I feel like w- if you, you spe- spoke out a few years ago on something that would happen, you would put your name behind it.
(39:01):
Mm-hmm.
Now, veterans don't want to say anything bad because they're afraid that their benefits are gonna be ripped away because of reprisals.
And it's really concerning, because I think if, e- exactly what you said, you'd put your name behind it.
And I think if we look back to 2014, which was during the Obama Administration, there were huge issues with the VA in terms of wait times, the way that some of the systems were rolled out.
(39:29):
And how those got fixed were veterans being open and transparent about it, right?
That's part of our democratic system to say, "Hey, this is a department, a system, a benefit that is supposed to work for me.
It is not working," right?
"And I'm gonna go scream from the rooftops that it is not working, and demand that our elected officials and policymakers fix it," right?
(39:53):
I think you and we can, it's, it's not- Yeah.
.99999999953434You just, you google like VA 2014, right? 480 00:39:57,511.99999999953434 --> 00:40:00,132 There are tons of articles, and everyone had their name behind it.
Nobody said, "I'm afraid of what is gonna happen to me- Yep.
.99999999953434if I say this is screwed up." 483 00:40:06,971.9999999995343 --> 00:40:14,272 Which makes your organization, IAVA, so much more important, I think, now- And-
(40:14):
because you're speaking for these, for, for these veterans.
We get a lot, a lot of, of outreach, right?
.0000000004657Of inquiries of, "This is happening to me. 487 00:40:22,912.0000000004657 --> 00:40:23,252 Help me.
But I, I'm not afraid to, to speak out."
But also for federal employees who are working in these organizations, again, many of whom are veterans, right?
So we have, we have sort of a twin when I think of it for, from our organization, is a twin advocacy role, right?
(40:38):
These are people who are serving veterans, so we need to speak out to ensure that the employees at the VA, the employees at even the Department of Education and Labor that are working on these veteran issues are protected because you're also seeing a, a real fear and a real concern coming from these employees, right?
And lots of reports of, of toxic workplaces and the- Yeah.
(41:00):
you know, the VA has said they're canceling their, um, internal survey of employee satisfaction this year.
And, uh- That's not surprising.
Exactly.
You know, but like, you know, we all know when like a commander cancels something, it's 'cause they don't want a bad news story coming out.
Commander cancels the cl- the, the, the climate survey- Climate survey, yeah.
when you have a bad climate, the beatings will continue until- Yep.
(41:22):
morale improves.
I mean- Yeah.
Yeah,
also wanted to ask you about unions.
Um, the, the c- the current administration is really gutting, and Republicans in general have gutted, tried to gut unions.
That actually really affects veterans.
Can you explain how- So it-
Yeah, there's a, there's a few ways that this affects veterans.
(41:43):
So one is, again, the VA employees, right?
The federal unions.
Like, the reason VA healthcare was superior was because of unions, so we've, we've got that side.
But more broadly, unions have done a ton for veteran employment, right?
And particularly when we look at being able to transfer direct skills, right?
So if you were a heavy equipment operator or driver in the military, the ability to, during your transition program, easily get a CDL license.
(42:11):
Um, if you were an electrician, right, being able to plug in, uh, at a more senior level in an IBEW, uh, job, right?
The unions were very, very active in getting veterans into higher paying, more senior, you know, good, solid jobs.
And I think if we want to have this conversation that we're seeing a lot in America, like, we need to bring, bring jobs back, which isn't, it just, there's always been- Yeah.
(42:40):
jobs here, but, but okay, right?
But like, unions are the ones who are doing that.
Unions are the ones who were creating very clear pathways for veterans into higher paying, more senior managerial level jobs, and gutting those is leaving veterans in the lurch, and it leaves them either to have to pay a whole lot more money for certifications, right?
(43:05):
And they then use- Mm-hmm.
benefits, right, on, for skills they already have, right?
And these are things like, these are things- Right.
that they had already learned in military school.
Now you're basically double taxing them, right?
Now you're saying, "Nope, you've got to go, you know, go get these cert- Go back for this course.
certifications on the outside."
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Which ends up bas- basically being a salary loss, right?
'Cause that's time that you're not- Mm-hmm.
(43:26):
in your trade, doing your job that you have there.
Um, you'll see people opt out, right?
'Cause who wants to go back and like, do the exact same school they've already done?
Right?
So people will do something different and sort of opt out of, uh, of these career fields.
You know, and it can potentially be a disincentive for recruiting in the beginning because a lot of people do join the military to get a skill that will lead to a job on the outside.
(43:50):
Like that is a, as much as- Right.
you know, I think the narrative wants to be that everyone's a big patriotic Captain America wanting to join.
Y- y- we both know people join for much more practical reasons than, uh- Yeah.
than that, and so- And some of these benefits are.
Yeah.
GI benefits i- is w- a big reason- Yeah.
why people join.
And so- So if that's being undermined, it's, it's hard.
Yeah.
And same thing with gutting the unions, right?
(44:11):
If the ability to get into a, a solid good job is being undermined, why would you do this to begin with?
Yeah.
Well tell us, uh, l- let's finish up and I want, want you to tell everybody about IAVA, what it is, what it does, and, um, how people listening can help, uh, your org- organization. 549 00:44:31,279.99999999953434 --> 00:44:31,920 Absolutely.
(44:31):
So IAVA is, um, the premier advocacy organization for post-9/11 veterans.
You know, we are squarely a, an advocacy organization.
Our, our mission and our focus is on changing laws and policies to make things better for, um, for veterans, which really sits along 3 pillars.
.00000000046566One is, is research, right? 554 00:44:52,220.00000000046566 --> 00:44:56,940 Everything we do is very data-driven based on the needs and desires of our members.
(44:56):
This isn't, "What does Kai Hunter want to talk about today?
What does Kai Hunter want to do?
What does she care about?"
It really is what are those things that are impacting our members, right?
What are those things that are disproportionately impacting the post-9/11 generation? 560 00:45:09,779.9999999995343 --> 00:45:18,040 And what are those things that our members have unique equities and stakes in that we need to push forward because we have an import- important voice, voice on?
(45:18):
Um, and so we have top priorities right now around, you know, protecting these earned benefits, right?
That's a big thing that we are spending a lot of time on, is ensuring that the bene- the, the, the deal that was made isn't clawed back and, and, and clawed away.
Um, do have a, a good focus on women veterans and reproductive healthcare.
.99999999953434Again, th- women are the fastest growing group of veterans. 565 00:45:39,279.99999999953434 --> 00:45:46,900 Our generation has a disproportionately large number of women veterans for the reason that we were so allowed to do things, right?
(45:46):
That, uh- Yeah.
you know, more opportunities were open, which means we, we need care.
But it's also things that we have a lot of stakes and equities in right now, like ensuring the promises are kept to our Afghan and Iraqi allies that we fought shoulder to shoulder with, and that were promised as well
a pathway to a better life, right?
An opportunity to thrive in a country that is supposed to uphold the ideals that they fought for as well, and we have here.
(46:11):
And so, um, to get involved in advocacy, there's a few things that you can do.
Um, at iava.org, you can join, to sign up as a member.
You don't have to be a veteran, but if you are a veteran, there are some verification steps to sort of unlock access to other types of information and, and participation and, and benefits that you have there.
It's always free to join us, uh, that's there as a, as a member.
(46:31):
But anyone can join to, to be informed and to be an advocate because education is really that second piece of what we have to do, right?
We have to inform our members and arm them with the ability to go advocate.
But I think we really owe it a, um, you owe it to the American public to also educate them and everybody on why they should care about this, right?
Yeah.
Veterans aren't a majority of the population, and so we d- we need allies, right?
(46:56):
We need civilian allies who care about our topics and our issues because they're the majority, right?
And so there is, you know, becoming a member, you can learn, right?
What, why should you care, right?
Why someone who never wore the uniform, why, why should they care about GI, GI bills and how does this really impact society on a,- Yeah.
uh, a much broader, broader scale?
(47:18):
And then there's direct advocacy.
.9999999995343You can get involved with, we have programs where we will put you through and train you on how to be a, uh, to be an advocate, um, that, that, uh, is great. 587 00:47:28,846.9999999995343 --> 00:47:38,568 To use your story to be able to engage with policy-makers and, um, help promote positive and meaningful policy and, uh, and law change that, that we have.
(47:38):
And also, if you join our events page, we actually have some great events coming up across the country this year.
We're gonna be start doing more in, uh, on the West Coast where we haven't had as many events and throughout, throughout the country, both in terms of, uh, of trying to get more sort of meet-ups, just veterans to get together to work towards advocacy because we believe, again, that task-based cohesion can actually start to break down a lot of the divides and polarizations that we're, that we're seeing right now.
(48:06):
Um, but also some, some fundraising events that should be fun.
Well, it's important.
.99999999953434And, um, I encourage everybody to go to your website, iava., uh, dot-org. 593 00:48:17,346.99999999953434 --> 00:48:21,607 Uh, this is a, this is a, an organization that really punches above its weight.
And, you know, if we, we, we say we care about veterans, um, we should, we should be listening in and listening to, to their needs, um, and doing everything that we can to, um, not only support groups like yours that, that help veterans, but also holding our leaders accountable, uh, i- in the administration and in Congress to actually do what, um, what is necessary to, to, you know, protect veterans and make sure that
(48:52):
they get the, um, what I feel is sort of the, the, the modest benefits that our country, uh, owes them, owes them back for their service.
So I really appreciate you coming on the show, uh, Kai.
It's been, it's been great.
And, um, thank you for being a part of, of Truth in the Barrel.
(49:12):
Thank you so much.
Hi, everyone.
Welcome to Truth in the Barrel (00:00):
Devil's Cut Edition.
I'm Amy McGrath.
Today, we're talking with Dr. Kai Hunter, the CEO of the Iraq Afghanistan Veterans of America.
She's also a former Marine Corps pilot.
We do a deep dive into the federal policies that affect veterans in America today, which is what she works on.
(00:22):
We also talk about what it's like to be a woman in the Marine Corps, and share what it's like to fly high performance aircraft, jets and helicopters, in combat. 8 00:00:32,560.0000000000036 --> 00:00:34,040 Thanks for tuning in.
Here we go.
Hi, Kai.
Great to have you here today.
.99999999999272Thank you so much for having me.
I wanna start out, um, you're, you're the, the CEO of the Iraq and Afghanistan Veteran of America, uh, organization, and we're gonna talk about that, and we're gonna talk about the, the VA and veterans in general.
(00:54):
But I wanted to start with your background, because you are a veteran.
Uh, you were a Marine, you were a pilot, uh, like I was.
And, um, so just tell us, wh- why, why did you join the Marine Corps to begin with?
Yeah.
So for me, joining the Marine Corps, it was really a sort of a 3pronged decision when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life.
(01:19):
Um, I knew I wanted a job that wasn't necessarily traditional.
You know, I had a lot of friends from growing up who went into just what you think of as, like, kind of the normal professions that everyone knows about, right?
You know, teachers, lawyers, bankers type, type thing that you have.
And I knew I wanted something that wasn't where I was gonna be sitting in an office all day long and working.
(01:39):
I wanted something that was a little different.
Um, I also knew I wanted something that had a service component to it, a job that wasn't just about me.
I didn't want to, you know, uh
Maybe it was the little bit of the still of San Francisco growing up in me that I didn't wanna, like, be a slave for the man either the whole time.
You know, wanted, wanted something where I was actually giving back, I was doing, I was doing good, and I was a part of, uh, something bigger than myself.
(02:04):
That was always really, really important for me.
And, um, and I also wanted a job that, like, was adventurous.
You know, when I was young, in particular, like, what other opportunity do you have to go do things that might take you all over the world, do things that are, are physically very hard, that are, uh, you know, intellectually tough, that are, you know, kind of cool, right?
(02:26):
You can do that in your 20s, uh, at the right time to do it.
And, and the Marine Corps really was the intersection of all of those things for me.
There was that sense of adventure, that sense of it being something that was, uh, was difficult, but was really rooted in service and values and in doing things beyond just your, just yourself, right?
(02:46):
No one who's a Marine does it just selfishly for them.
So that's what drew me to the Marine Corps.
And so what drew you to flying?
Um, well, so now that I know how recruiters work, I got tricked into flying.
I think at, uh, at this point, you know, when I was talking to the officer selection office, um, he had told me that I could
if I
(03:06):
I could take an air contract or a ground contract.
I was super ignorant.
I didn't really know what that, the difference was at, at that point, other than air.
I'm like, "Oh, that's like flying, like Top Gun, and that would be cool."
And, but when he was telling me this, he was like, "Well, you know, if you're an air contract, you can fly whatever you want," right?
As, as a woman in particular, he
So he really sold this like, "You can do, do anything.
You can fly any of the things."
(03:27):
He's like," And if you have a ground contract, you might be like a secretary to a general or something like that."
And I was like, "Well, I wanna do the cool," right?
"I wanna do the cool and the tough thing that, that was there that was, that was different."
So I got tricked into it a little bit.
Now I know that they needed pilots, and so, you know, they, they were gonna sell that one, uh, sell that one hard, hard for me.
But uh, it was, uh, an awesome, uh, yeah, opportunity.
(03:48):
Yeah.
And this, and this was a year
So y- you are my timeframe.
This was- Mm-hmm.
the time when women could do all the aviation jobs, uh, combat aviation jobs in the Marine Corps, but could not do all of the ground combat jobs.
Now, since then, all of those have been open.
But at that time when we started out, aviation was open to us.
(04:11):
So if you, if you wanted to sort of be on the tip of the spear and you wanted to go to combat and you wanted to do that, that sort of, that kind of stuff, you had to go into aviation.
Yeah.
And, and that was a, another piece of it.
I, I always thought too, like, "If I'm gonna be a Marine, I should go be a Marine, right?
Do the most tip of the spear thing that is possible for me to do."
(04:33):
And that was.
It was also, I think, you know, and it, it being that time when, uh, combat aviation had just opened up, it was also a place of, like, real opportunity in the Marine Corps.
'Cause like as you had said, on the ground side, not everything was open.
Which in the back of my mind, I always had a fear that that would sort of hinder my ability to grow if I wasn't able to be part of the sort of most tip of the spear of the community that, that I was in.
(05:02):
And that's really real in the Marine Corps - Very real in the Marine Corps.
because, uh, they, they valued, um, uh, what was called combat arms jobs in order to be promoted and, um, respected at a certain level within the Marine Corps.
So then you, you went on, you became a Cobra pilot, which is an attack helicopter, uh, combat tours.
(05:22):
Uh, what did you, what did you learn coming out of, of your combat tours?
So it was a really interesting time in my own life when I think back into the sort of combat time.
It was, in some ways, some of the most simple times that we had, 'cause I had one job, and I knew what my job was, and I knew what I had to do to achieve the mission.
(05:46):
And that sense where everyone, regardless of gender, race, religious background, right?
Like there is some simplicity in the fact that we had a job, we knew what that job was.
It was a, you know, uh, a difficult job.
But it was simple 'cause we were all moving towards the same
(06:06):
the same outcome, right?
The same, the same purpose.
And so, you know, one of the things for me that I, I, I really learned and took, you know, took to heart and have, uh, really pushed throughout the rest of my career is that really that importance of tax, task-based cohesion, right?
We were a group of people who were super different.
(06:28):
So, I mean, this is one thing about the military broadly, right?
You don't have any control over who you're sorting with.
You don't have any control over who you are gonna be in the aircraft with on any given day, or who's gonna be working on your aircraft, right?
You have people who come together that otherwise wouldn't be, right?
These are people that wouldn't
I don't think there's any other way in which this group of people will have come together.
(06:50):
But you give them a task, particularly one that's hard and difficult, everybody starts moving together.
Everyone becomes, you know, a, a r- really strong, cohesive unit that works really, really well together.
And it, you know, it, it was a lesson coming out of combat that I, I try to really keep to heart, right?
(07:11):
If you want to get a group of diverse people working together, give them something hard to do.
But then you also see how beneficial diversity is, right?
I think we both have had those experiences where when you've got to go do something really, really difficult, when you get people who are thinking differently and working differently together to do it, it, it works really, really well, particularly if you're, you're bringing it around a task that we have there.
(07:32):
You know, and then, I think from a personal level, thinking about learning things in combat, like, I learned I can do really hard things.
Yeah.
You know, I think that, that it, it's become, you know, it's become one of those things that, you know, we can do hard things is, like, almost used as, like, a slogan, like, back of the napkin bumpens- bumper sticker type thing now.
But, I mean, I think for an
(07:54):
.0000000000582And I, I'm sure you had these experiences too, where you were like, "I"
Like, that was, that was hard, like, fundamentally hard, tactically, physically, emotionally.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, I can do it.
And there is a confidence in, you know, facing other challenges of, you know, if I could, if I could do this, right?
(08:14):
If I could learn how to fly a Cobra, if I could learn how to fly a helicopter, number one, right?
Then fly an attack helicopter, and then fly an attack helicopter in a combat zone- Yeah.
you know?
Like, okay, I can do a lot of things.
Y- Y- You can.
I, I always equate when, when people have asked me, "Well, what, what is it like flying a fighter jet?"
.0000000000582What is it like in that kind of high performance aviation combat, that kind of thing? 112 00:08:38,364.0000000000582 --> 00:08:56,524 And I, and I've tried to equate it for them, and I said, "You know, it's sort of like, um, the, the way you feel when you have walked off the field from a soccer match in which was the, uh, the state championship.
(08:56):
You have given everything.
You have no more ounce left in you.
That's how you feel physically.
You're just drenched in sweat, and you're, you're physically drained."
That, plus, you remember the feeling you had after you walked out of, like, the ACT and the SAT- Yeah.
like, taking a really hard test where your, your mind is just sort of mush because you've been thinking so hard.
(09:23):
And then you add in the way you feel after, like, a really tough, um, radio interview or something- Mm-hmm.
where you have to, like, continually talk and listen and, you know, you've got a lot going on and, and you've got an earpiece in your ear.
I mean, it's
You just feel spent because you- Mm-hmm.
(09:43):
have given everything.
It's sort of like the ultimate challenging job.
That's how I- Yeah.
try to describe it to people.
Yeah.
Well, a- and it's, it's the time when you have that combined, as you said, physical, intellectual, but then you have to be anticipatory in thinking about it too, right?
So it's not even just being reactive, but now, "Okay, well, what am I going to do next?"
And the, one of the things, and you, I mean, your aircraft was much, much faster than mine, but thinking ahead, you know, th- as you're learning to fly, there was a given
(10:10):
Think ahead of the aircraft that you have there, which I think just makes the brain fatigue always that much more too.
'Cause it's not even like you can react in the, "Oh, I'm crossing the street and I see something coming and I'm walking, you know, 2 miles an hour."
You're, have to think so much faster too.
You do, but, but also my aircraft was higher up, you know?
Where you were lower.
(10:31):
And that, that folks is way more dangerous.
So, uh, you know, let's, let's not kid ourselves.
I'm not down at, at 200 or 300 feet.
Uh, if I do go down that, that far, it's, it's for a very s- short, split second time.
You're down there all the time.
And the, the other piece of it, not to get into the, the super weeds of flying though, but the, like the, from being lower, the sensory aspect of that too, the things that like, the changes in smells and textures and even temperatures that you would feel when you were flying, which is a weird, like very different.
(11:04):
You're like, "I'm in an aircraft," but all of the sensory stuff that's happening on the ground is being experienced in a different way, which just adds to an interesting emotional fatigue.
From like the sensory, you know, absorbing so much at, uh, at once.
.9999999998836But, you know, you served, you did those really hard things, served our country, wore the uniform, United States Marine, and then, you know, y- you got out and you became a PhD. 145 00:11:32,319.9999999998836 --> 00:11:33,319.9999999998836 You, you, you went- Mm-hmm. 146 00:11:33,319.9999999998836 --> 00:11:38,540 back to school and, um, did lots of different things.
(11:38):
And now you're in charge of the, what I think is the post, premier post-9/11 veterans organization in the country, which is Iraq Afghanistan Veterans of America.
And I- I'm, uh, I wanna get into, to that, um, but why did you want to get a PhD?
(11:58):
Before we get into what's going on in the VA- Yeah.
and that sort of thing.
So for me, it wa- the impetus is really when, um, when I was on the Hill.
So I was a, a legislative fellow, similar to, you were a legislative fellow as well in, in the House.
Which is something that I still encourage anyone in uniform to go do, like actually spending that time and understanding how policy is made, how the decisions that impact us when we're wearing the uniform is made, is such, such an important thing to, to do.
(12:28):
Um, and then I worked in the, the Office of Legislative Affairs, you know, the, for the, the bigger Marine Corps.
And at that time, there were, uh, several pretty significant personnel changes that were happening.
The Don't Ask, Don't Tell was, was being repealed when we were there.
It was the initial, um, some of the initial legislation around the removal of the women in ground combat, uh, exclusion, or the attempts to get that in.
(12:54):
Right?
There was a, we, they didn't actually become legislation, it was duty policy, but there were a lot of those debates, um, on the Hill that were going on, and the women in submarines was happening- Yeah.
around all this time too.
And one of the things that was very, very stark to me was that there was a lot of passion and emotion on both sides of the, of the discussion, right?
(13:16):
People really, really cared.
Which is important, right?
We need people in policy to care and go out and be passionate and care about it.
But emotion doesn't actually write good policy or good implementation plans.
And one of the things that I became very, very stark to me was that, and this, and the Don't Ask, Don't Tell repeal is really what hammered home for me the decision to go get a doctorate, was that there was not a lot of research being done on really this connection between personnel and who serves and what personnel policy is, and the, the people side, to the more operational or, you know, strategic aspects of the military, right?
(13:58):
Like, how do these people, the fact that we are saying, "We need more diversity and we need people to bring their full and authentic selves and who they are to the military," there was just very little research that connected the 2.
And the same thing when I tried to dig in, um, you know, on women in particular and women in the military.
.00000000011642And there's a lot of studies that will count the numbers of women, right? 170 00:14:17,170.00000000011642 --> 00:14:23,040 "Oh, we have 20 women in this unit and, uh, 10% of women over here."
(14:23):
Right?
But not a lot that really dug into why all of this matters.
And so for me- Mm-hmm.
I said, "Well, if this research doesn't exist, I'm gonna go figure out how to do it."
.9999999998836But also, my time on the Hill taught me that data and evidence and research is really essential to give voice and support to our most vulnerable in policy debates and discussion. 176 00:14:43,839.9999999998836 --> 00:14:53,339.9999999998836 And those people who can't necessarily advocate for themselves and aren't in the position to, you know, stand up and, and have a voice for a huge variety of different reasons. 177 00:14:53,339.9999999998836 --> 00:14:57,469 We can get into, to why that, that happens, but that research can do that.
(14:57):
And if it doesn't exist, I'll figure out how to do it myself.
I mean, good on you, 'cause it takes a, a lot of years.
And I, I, I- I feel that too.
A lot of times in policy, especially around the military and personnel, there is a lot of emotion.
And there's not a, a ton of data to back up some of these things.
I mean, I think about the women in combat piece, uh, and that's, that's a discussion that, that we should have at some point.
(15:26):
.99999999988358Um, but there was so much emotion tied around that, and still is. 185 00:15:33,79.99999999988358 --> 00:15:55,376 You know, with our current Secretary of Defense, one of the things that, that struck me when he was i- in his confirmation hearings, he was able to get away with so much bullshit, with so much sitting in that chair, saying all this, all these things about women in the military based on absolutely nothing other than his hunch.
(15:55):
He had no data to back it up at all.
And, and it just, it was, and it was infuriating to me, uh, when I, when I saw.
.0000000001164And it was almost the opposite. 189 00:16:04,660.0000000001164 --> 00:16:08,553 The dataGo- show the opposite story, right?
That's the, like the data, if you want to actually follow where the data are and let the data speak for themselves, the data tell the complete 180 out story than is being told with a lot of the em- the emotion, right?
(16:22):
If we look at these, um, you know, we, we, we look at these units that are integrated, we look at where women have become part of particularly sort of forward operational units, whether that's tactical aviation, you know, combatant ships, and now ground combat units, the more integrated units actually are better at solving complex problems.
(16:44):
And at the end of the day, like a lot of what we do in the military is solve complex problems.
It's not just how fast can you, you know, how fast can you run an obstacle course.
.00000000011642There is, it's only matters that you can run it fast if you can actually do the thing at the end that you are expected to do, right? 195 00:17:00,64.00000000011642 --> 00:17:02,684 There's not a like stopwatch in war.
Right.
It, it is, it is complex problem solving.
(17:05):
.999999999883585But also from a, a personnel and like well-being and treatment, um, perspective, integrated units have lower instances of sexual harassment and sexual assault and just general harassment and bad behavior. 199 00:17:20,23.999999999883585 --> 00:17:27,844 Because when you're working shoulder to shoulder with someone, again doing that really hard thing, it becomes a lot harder to actually dehumanize them.
(17:27):
Yeah.
It becomes a lot harder to degrade or, or denigrate them- Yeah.
than if you're separated and you can really otherize people.
There's a, there's a respect thing going on.
And I saw it, you know, I saw it in my time in the Marine Corps.
Mm-hmm.
You know, when I was a junior officer, um, the, the respect wasn't there as much because I didn't have the qualifications.
(17:50):
So there was- Right.
there was more sort of locker room antics, shall we say, um, denigration of, of women and all of that.
By the time I rose through the ranks, and it wasn't just me, I was surrounded with other women who, who did the same thing, um, you know, it was harder for- Mm-hmm.
for folks to get away with what in my mind that really unprofessional type of behavior- Yep.
(18:14):
because now you're the one with the qual.
Yeah, exactly.
You're, you're, you're the one with, with, with the experience.
And, and, and, and also your peers have been your peers the whole way.
Where I was, I was one of these few, um, Marines, female Marines at, at the time that was integrated in my training.
(18:37):
I'd never had segregated training because I went through the Naval Academy, I went through the Naval Academy's, um, uh, weeding out process to go, to become a Marine, and then the basic school.
Mm-hmm.
All of those things when I went through were, were, were all with men.
And I, so my experience in, in that has, has shown me and my belief is that that was always a better way.
(19:02):
.99999999976717It- Because, um, when, when somebody is next to you and does the 20-mile hike with you and carries the same load as you and does the exact same thing, boy, they see it. 221 00:19:14,83.99999999976717 --> 00:19:15,204 They lived it.
.00000000023283Mm-hmm. 223 00:19:15,244.00000000023283 --> 00:19:20,524 It's very hard for them to say, "Oh, no, no, no, she didn't, they didn't do, she didn't do it."
.99999999976717No, no, man, I was right there next to you. 225 00:19:22,83.99999999976717 --> 00:19:23,43.99999999976717 Right there. 226 00:19:23,43.99999999976717 --> 00:19:23,194 Yeah.
(19:23):
I'm talking about
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, my, my training is well all integrated and it is, right?
.9999999997672When it's much harder to segregate, but then it also, you know, if we go back to some of the, the studies, like studies in air quotes that were done around like the women in ground combat exclusion, if we look at the ones that they tried to say, "Oh, well, like a group of all men is faster than a group of all women."
(19:45):
Well, you took groups and you kept them completely segregated from each other and you, in those studies that were done, they were typically male combat arm units that had been together for decades, right?
Often deployed together.
And then you just patch a bunch of women together who had never been in a unit together before and give them like a week to train, right?
.99999999976717It goes back to, and, and I think it, it tells exactly the same story you are, right? 235 00:20:08,63.99999999976717 --> 00:20:21,704 When you work side by side with people, not only do you see them do, do the thing and you build trust around their, their character, but you build efficiencies in how you do things together and you work together and you become a more cohesive team.
(20:21):
And it's, you see that if you were to remove one of those members, the whole team is gonna fail.
And so if you take women away, in this perspective, you're going to
Everybody is going to ultimately fail.
Tha- that's a great discussion.
I, I do wanna get into veterans and what's going on right now, because there
I, I don't think there's anybody out there who is more in tune with, uh, the needs of veterans, with what is happening.
(20:47):
I mean, this is what you do and what you've dedicated yourself to, to do as the CEO of the, the post-9/11 advocacy organization IAVA.
And so you are, are in the weeds.
And we, we hear this a lot about, um, we all wanna help veterans and, and that sort of thing.
And so my goal in this show today was to spend some time with you, for you to, to tell our listeners a little bit more about, um, what is happening to veterans from the policy perspective right now, uh, with this current administration, and kinda give us a, a, a sense of where veterans are at.
(21:27):
And so I'm, I'm gonna- Mm-hmm.
ask you a bunch of questions.
But the way I, I talk about veterans' benefits to people is I say, "You know, veterans sign their name on the dotted line for 4 years, at least for 4 years, and that Uncle Sam can send that young person, usually young person, man or woman, anywhere in the world, possibly s- uh, send them into harm's way, and ask them to go to combat, putting their life i- at risk, po- potentially.
(22:00):
And in return, we give them a deal.
And the deal is you get 3, in my mind, sort of basic benefits, which I don't believe, and we, we could have this discussion, but I don't believe are
those benefits are, like, super incredible, okay?"
Yep.
"I think they're, they're good, but this is kinda the handshake deal.
(22:22):
And the first benefit is healthcare.
You know?
Our nation has said, "You're a vet.
You deserve healthcare for the rest of your life.
Not for your family, you know?
Not for your mom or your dad or even your kids, but you as a veteran will get quality healthcare for the rest of your life.
That's number one.
Number 2, you will get the GI Bill, the GI benefits.
(22:43):
Educational benefits.
We will help you if you want to, to go to college or go to a trade school.
Uncle Sam will pay for a lot of it.
Now, if you wanna go to Harvard, Uncle Sam's not gonna pay for all of it."
"You know?
But, but, but it, it's, it's decent.
It's a really good-" Mm-hmm.
" benefit.
And then the, the third piece is, um, housing, which is not
(23:05):
I- it's not
The government doesn't give you a house.
It gives you a modest VA loan, which isn't, you know, 0%.
It's, it's whatever the percentage rate.
.0000000002328I tell people it's, it's slightly lower than the normal percentage rate, but it's, it's modest. 276 00:23:20,860.0000000002328 --> 00:23:21,776 And that's it.
Do we-" Mm-hmm.
"There's nothing, there's nothing else."
You know?
(23:25):
And so I wanna start by asking you about the first one, which is healthcare.
Um, this administration has, has done a lot of moves.
They've just banned, uh, reproductive healthcare for women in terms of, uh, abortions at, at, at, at, uh, VA centers, or the ability for, for women vets to get these procedures, even in the case of rape, okay?
(23:51):
Or, or, or something, you know?
Or sexual assault.
Um, and that's just kind of a start.
But there's also, uh, the move to fire many people who work at VA healthcare centers.
.99999999976717I think there's been thousands that have already either quit or fired under this administration. 288 00:24:14,389.99999999976717 --> 00:24:21,519 So I'm gonna start there and kinda ask you to give us an assessment of where VA healthcare is right now.
(24:21):
Yeah.
So, I mean, I think your breakdown is also really good, right?
In terms of the things that, that we get.
And I would agree with you that they're, they're good.
It's not like they are
you know, we're getting showered in, in riches with these things.
But if we wanna just focus on healthcare right now, VA healthcare, I think to set a little bit of a stage and then go to where we are right now, the outcomes, right?
(24:41):
If we, we go back again to the data, what the data say is that VA care, and particularly VA direct care, does result in much better physical health outcomes for veterans than civilian healthcare does.
And that is largely for, for 3 re- 3 reasons.
One is an actual culturally competent understanding of what members of the military go through, right?
(25:08):
And that is everything from knowing, like, for those of us who went downrange and deployed, where we were and what things we could have been exposed to, so we can do some preemptive and proactive screening for particular, uh, you know?
Whether they're cancers- Like toxic exposures.
Also, with regards to things like military sexual trauma and assault, right?
Understanding how that may integrate with other physical and mental health, health aspects, right?
(25:33):
So that military cultural care, uh, competent care is really, really important.
The next is that VA care is a patient-centered model for care.
And, and it is built around what is referred to as patient-aligned care teams, which
The care teams, they're not necessarily physicians.
They're usually, you know, administrative positions, which gets into some of the concerns about who's getting fired right now and who is leaving- Mm-hmm.
(25:54):
right now, even if they say, "Well, it's not direct healthcare providers." 309 00:25:58,639.9999999997672 --> 00:26:01,296 You know, these patient-aligned care teams ensure that-
the veteran's military record is fully integrated.
So you don't have to go around and sort of retell your, your story to every single person that you see.
Um, they know, they, they a- have a full view of your physical and mental health record.
It also takes the burden for scheduling and care integration off of the individual, right?
(26:20):
So it, it is a patient
The VA was designed with the veteran at its core, not
Unlike a lot of the, the private healthcare, you know, systems which- It's not for profit.
Yeah.
It's not for profit, that you have there.
The
And then, third, and I think what's really most important for the, the, the post-9/11 generation, where we are the most diverse generation of veteran that's there.
(26:44):
I know that's sadly a, a dirty word right now, but like, we are.
It's just the reality of it that's there, is that for, for women and for people of color, in the civilian world, they're much less likely to be assumed to be a veteran.
And so if you- Yeah.
.0000000002328The 325 00:26:59,744.0000000002328 --> 00:27:13,324 For, for women who, who go out to try to get care in the community, they often have to spend a lot of time justifying why they're asking for things like earlier mammograms, or different reproductive health screenings that are there because of their exposures.
(27:13):
Because it's not assumed, right, that you were, that you were in the military.
And, and often we've seen, there's been like critical missing of, of cancers.
Of, uh, chronic diseases and illnesses.
Right.
So, so to set the standard that, that VA care is better.
But we're seeing, uh, 3, 3 things happen right now that are really, really troubling and concerning, and that we're hearing a lot about from our, our members as being troubling and, and concerning.
(27:39):
Um, one is, as you mentioned, sort of at the end, a, a very systematic dismantling of women's healthcare within the- Yeah.
the VA, that we're seeing.
That we are just, whether it was, you know, even on social media, the merging of women's, the women's centers with like the big VA social media thing.
.00000000023283And they're like, "Oh, we'll still give you the information." 336 00:27:58,264.00000000023283 --> 00:28:00,604 It's like, yeah, but will you?
(28:00):
Right?
Like if, if you're not specifically thinking about this, is it actually gonna be targeted and, and, um, done well here?
And I always try to keep in mind that if you're doing a 4year enlistment and you go in at the age of 18, you come out at the age of 22.
Yeah.
.9999999997672I mean, you know, you're a woman, a woman vet could be 23 years old. 342 00:28:19,793.9999999997672 --> 00:28:20,208 Mm-hmm.
(28:20):
Yeah.
You know, do they necessarily want to be hanging out with the 75-year-old dudes in the, you know, in the clinic there, right?
.99999999976717There, there's a lot of, of, of concern, yes, particularly for these, these young women, right? 346 00:28:33,83.99999999976717 --> 00:28:35,644 So we're seeing this dismantling of some of the women's centers.
The, the reproductive healthcare attacks.
You know, and this is one of the things where, you know, from even just our membership, across the political spectrum, so this was not a partisan sentiment.
(28:47):
But across the political spectrum, we have a, um, you know, a real desire for the VA to step in in the post-Dobbs environment for women to be taken care of.
.9999999997672You know, and that was, you know, over 70% of our members, regardless of political affiliation, said, "No. 351 00:29:06,563.9999999997672 --> 00:29:21,074 We need to ensure that women have access to the full suite of reproductive healthcare," because women veterans are more likely to have pregnancy com- uh, complications than their age-matched civilian peers.
(29:21):
And so we need to have competent healthcare providers.
And what we've seen in the post-Dobbs environment broadly is a, an OB-GYN flight from a lot of states.
And now- Yeah.
the V-
And the VA was sort of one of the last places where there was, you know, g- good, competent care, th- or at least information about care.
(29:42):
.9999999997672And now, and now that's going away. 358 00:29:43,583.9999999997672 --> 00:29:44,464 And now that's going away.
And- Under this administration.
.0000000002328And uh, it's, it's removing one more option. 361 00:29:49,724.0000000002328 --> 00:29:57,844 And then finally, we have a lot of concerns about how opaque the process has been of any of these changes that are happening to the VA.
You know, we're, we're hearing a lot of, um, you know, "Oh, don't
(30:02):
You know, trust us.
.0000000002328It's gonna be okay. 365 00:30:03,744.0000000002328 --> 00:30:07,384 There's no direct care, uh, providers that are, are gone."
.9999999997672Well, we've known for decades that there's been shortages of critical staff, right? 367 00:30:12,583.9999999997672 --> 00:30:12,594 Mm-hmm.
Like the VA has had a, a critical staffing problem for a while, right, particularly with mental health care providers, but then with some of the specialists as, as well.
And, I mean, and this is something that all the VSOs have been harping on.
(30:25):
And then to say, "Oh, we're gonna-" VSos are Veteran's- Veterans, yeah.
Veterans, yeah.
Organizations.
Veteran's Orga- Like your VFW, American Legion, that sort of thing.
Yeah, yeah.
Everyone has been really, really concerned around the, you know, lack of s- critical staff that we, that we see.
And now, you know, we're saying, "Oh, we're gonna have fewer people at the VA, we're gonna make it more difficult to, to hire."
(30:47):
Like, that's not putting the veteran first, and there's a lot, a lot of concern from, from our members there.
I'm worried about the state of the VA.
I, I, you know, I, I fear when you, when you read stories about, "Oh, we, we really wanna plan to cut, you know, 60,000 workers from around the VA health clinics around the nation."
(31:09):
I, I, y- there's no way in my mind that you can cut those types of jobs, uh, who many of those people that work at the VA by the way are veterans themselves, uh, and not affect the healthcare of veterans.
You're hearing stories of, you know, veterans having to, uh, call in and not being able to get to anyone to get appointments, and all this stuff.
(31:34):
So, I mean, I'm, I'm worried, uh, currently.
But, you know, thanks for givin' an assessment here.
Well
And, and there's also a lot of the staff that they're saying, okay, it's not a direct, maybe it's not a, an RN or an MD that you have, right?
But your, your janitorial staff at hospitals are essential and critical workers, right?
(31:56):
'Cause if you don't have a fully clean and sanitary and safe medical environment, you can't practice medicine, right?
That is a, and like, so, you know, it may not be a clinician, but it's an essential piece of the healthcare puzzle.
Same with a lot of your, your lab techs, right?
Who bring in, like, literally just run samples around, right?
Though they may not be directly interfacing with the patient, but they provide critical functions without which healthcare is not gonna, not gonna work.
(32:25):
I'm a little more cynical about this-
um, in terms of the Trump administration and Republicans in general.
I'm, I'm, my belief is they're trying to, to, to break it, um, and i- in order to privatize it, you know.
.0000000002328Um, I'm, I'm very worried about that for all the reasons you talked about earlier is that th- the VA is a, is a promise. 396 00:32:47,860.0000000002328 --> 00:32:50,900 The, the healthcare is a promise to our veterans.
(32:50):
And, uh, I just don't think in this country we have, um, shown that, you know, um, f- fapping that out to the highest bidder on the private side is the way to go, um, i- in my mind.
But I wanna move on to GI benefits, 'cause that's the second piece, uh, that is really being affected right now.
(33:12):
We had, e- earlier this year we had, you know, the DOJ, um, y- people come in and do this sort of sweep of federal agencies.
They've ripped into the Department of Education, they've ripped into the Department of Labor.
And for a lot of people they're like, "Okay, well how does that affect me?"
Well, it affects veterans- Right.
(33:33):
because, uh, there's 100
uh, 600,000 veterans right now who use GI benefits.
And the GI benefits are your educational benefits.
They, and they have to be managed by, uh, the government.
And so we're seeing delays in these educational benefits right now.
And when you see these delays, you know, uh, veterans start to drop out of school.
(33:57):
I mean they can't pay for it.
Mm-hmm.
So what are your thoughts on, on what's going on?
Yeah.
And, and so what we're hearing is that, um, there's, there's huge delays in sort of 2 prong.
.99999999976717One is actually getting the schools paid, right? 415 00:34:09,239.99999999976717 --> 00:34:17,920 So the money from the government that's supposed to go to the school to pay tuition for these folks is being delayed by up to 6 months in some cases.
(34:17):
.00000000023283And so veterans are receiving bills, right? 417 00:34:20,220.00000000023283 --> 00:34:32,989.9999999997672 Receiving bills for tens of thousands of dollars that they weren't expecting to have, 'cause the school is basically like, "You're enrolled, and so your options are pay and hope that the GI Bill actually comes back to reimburse you-" Mm-hmm. 418 00:34:32,989.9999999997672 --> 00:34:40,199.99999999976717 " take out student loans to, to make up the difference and then again hope the GI Bill comes back to, to actually reimburse you, or drop out of school." 419 00:34:40,199.99999999976717 --> 00:34:40,320.00000000023283 Right? 420 00:34:40,320.00000000023283 --> 00:34:48,144.00000000023283 So that's the one is we're seeing, and unfortunately we're seeing, uh, a non-insignificant number of veterans just drop out of school because they don't wanna assume that risk. 421 00:34:48,699.9999999997672 --> 00:34:56,480 But these are also payments, and you get basic housing allowance payments as, you know, a s- full time student on the GI Bill.
(34:56):
That's actually a, a pretty decent amount.
You know, you get paid as a, uh, an E5 with dependents, which is a, a decent chunk to pay for, for rent or a mortgage.
And if you're a full time student, you're not bringing in a lot of other income, um, generally.
And so those payments are late as well, which also then creates a, creates a unfortunate housing crisis for veterans, right?
'Cause if you're reliant on, you know, and most, especially if we're looking at, you know, back to your example of someone who signed up for 4 years is now in their early 20s, going to school full time, they don't have a whole lot of like equity and just ready cash sitting around to be able- Right.
(35:34):
to, you know, pay rent.
Right?
And so you've got a- Yeah.
dropping out of school and now facing housing insecurity, and that's a bad thing, right?
For all the talk of like we want to combat veterans' homelessness, we want better veterans employment, well the best way to do that is, is still education.
Right?
Education still is a solid pathway to better y- financial and housing outcomes, and we're making it harder.
(35:57):
And we're making it harder for no reason, right?
This i- there's no efficiency gains-
and making it difficult, other than the efficiency gain as we have people not in school.
Like, that just doesn't seem very efficient- Yeah.
to me.
Yeah.
The other thing that is very, very concerning is that, um, a few years ago, uh, the, the veteran advocate community had worked, um, very hard to close what's referred to as the 90/10 loophole.
(36:22):
And this is a super wonky thing about how schools get their money.
But basically, when we closed the loophole, what happened was that predatory for-profit colleges, right?
The ITT Tech, even if that's still around uh, you know, in the world, the Grand Canyon- Mm-hmm.
um, University, the University of Phoenix, right?
These schools that are, are for-profit and often end up with kind of junk degrees.
(36:45):
Like, they're not, you're not actually getting the degree that you're, you're paying for.
So, there were protections against these schools preying on veterans and their GI Bill benefits, right?
And the- Yeah.
the CFPB, the Consumer, um, Financial Protection Bureau, actually did a lot to recover GI Bill funds from these for-profit places and restore them to the veterans, so they could go use them at, you know, better schools and, and more- And better schools, yeah.
(37:08):
good programs, right?
Well, those rules were, where the 90/10 loophole didn't, you know, we were able to prevent it from fully coming back, the Department of Education changed the rules on how they do accreditation and determine for-profit status, which is now several entities that were deemed not accredited, not eligible for GI Bill benefits, are now eligible again.
(37:32):
And of course, you see these ads, right?
These, these ads pop up everywhere now, on Military Times and on- Yeah.
you know, any of these sites.
And it's, it, again, this is one of the things that feels very intentional, because the, you know, the CEOs and the presidents of the boards of these schools now have people working in the Department of Education, right, who are now taking- Sure.
(37:54):
They-
the GI Bill benefits- They want the money.
And- Yeah.
.99999999953434And so, we're, we're, we're m- putting those that are trying to get their education at a huge disadvantage from delays, while also, reopening veterans to predatory institutions in- Yeah. 460 00:38:10,471.99999999953434 --> 00:38:12,624 in ways that are gonna end up harming them in the long run too.
Yeah.
And here's another thing I want, I wanna read to you.
(38:15):
This is, um, this was from a Los Angeles Times article about the GI benefits and what is happening right now, and they interviewed, uh, a Navy vet.
This is a, a 33-year-old Navy vet in Colorado, who said, quote, "The whole process has become a mess, uh, and it's making a lot of us very anxious."
(38:35):
And he's talking about, you know, the, these benefits sort of going away, can't get ahold of anyone.
But here's the thing that, that struck me.
He asked that his name not be disclosed for fear of reprisal from federal authorities.
.00000000046566This is what you're seeing more and more and more of. 469 00:38:54,412.00000000046566 --> 00:39:01,832 I mean, I feel like w- if you, you spe- spoke out a few years ago on something that would happen, you would put your name behind it.
(39:01):
Mm-hmm.
Now, veterans don't want to say anything bad because they're afraid that their benefits are gonna be ripped away because of reprisals.
And it's really concerning, because I think if, e- exactly what you said, you'd put your name behind it.
And I think if we look back to 2014, which was during the Obama Administration, there were huge issues with the VA in terms of wait times, the way that some of the systems were rolled out.
(39:29):
And how those got fixed were veterans being open and transparent about it, right?
That's part of our democratic system to say, "Hey, this is a department, a system, a benefit that is supposed to work for me.
It is not working," right?
"And I'm gonna go scream from the rooftops that it is not working, and demand that our elected officials and policymakers fix it," right?
(39:53):
I think you and we can, it's, it's not- Yeah.
.99999999953434You just, you google like VA 2014, right? 480 00:39:57,511.99999999953434 --> 00:40:00,132 There are tons of articles, and everyone had their name behind it.
Nobody said, "I'm afraid of what is gonna happen to me- Yep.
.99999999953434if I say this is screwed up." 483 00:40:06,971.9999999995343 --> 00:40:14,272 Which makes your organization, IAVA, so much more important, I think, now- And-
(40:14):
because you're speaking for these, for, for these veterans.
We get a lot, a lot of, of outreach, right?
.0000000004657Of inquiries of, "This is happening to me. 487 00:40:22,912.0000000004657 --> 00:40:23,252 Help me.
But I, I'm not afraid to, to speak out."
But also for federal employees who are working in these organizations, again, many of whom are veterans, right?
So we have, we have sort of a twin when I think of it for, from our organization, is a twin advocacy role, right?
(40:38):
These are people who are serving veterans, so we need to speak out to ensure that the employees at the VA, the employees at even the Department of Education and Labor that are working on these veteran issues are protected because you're also seeing a, a real fear and a real concern coming from these employees, right?
And lots of reports of, of toxic workplaces and the- Yeah.
(41:00):
you know, the VA has said they're canceling their, um, internal survey of employee satisfaction this year.
And, uh- That's not surprising.
Exactly.
You know, but like, you know, we all know when like a commander cancels something, it's 'cause they don't want a bad news story coming out.
Commander cancels the cl- the, the, the climate survey- Climate survey, yeah.
when you have a bad climate, the beatings will continue until- Yep.
(41:22):
morale improves.
I mean- Yeah.
Yeah,
also wanted to ask you about unions.
Um, the, the c- the current administration is really gutting, and Republicans in general have gutted, tried to gut unions.
That actually really affects veterans.
Can you explain how- So it-
Yeah, there's a, there's a few ways that this affects veterans.
(41:43):
So one is, again, the VA employees, right?
The federal unions.
Like, the reason VA healthcare was superior was because of unions, so we've, we've got that side.
But more broadly, unions have done a ton for veteran employment, right?
And particularly when we look at being able to transfer direct skills, right?
So if you were a heavy equipment operator or driver in the military, the ability to, during your transition program, easily get a CDL license.
(42:11):
Um, if you were an electrician, right, being able to plug in, uh, at a more senior level in an IBEW, uh, job, right?
The unions were very, very active in getting veterans into higher paying, more senior, you know, good, solid jobs.
And I think if we want to have this conversation that we're seeing a lot in America, like, we need to bring, bring jobs back, which isn't, it just, there's always been- Yeah.
(42:40):
jobs here, but, but okay, right?
But like, unions are the ones who are doing that.
Unions are the ones who were creating very clear pathways for veterans into higher paying, more senior managerial level jobs, and gutting those is leaving veterans in the lurch, and it leaves them either to have to pay a whole lot more money for certifications, right?
(43:05):
And they then use- Mm-hmm.
benefits, right, on, for skills they already have, right?
And these are things like, these are things- Right.
that they had already learned in military school.
Now you're basically double taxing them, right?
Now you're saying, "Nope, you've got to go, you know, go get these cert- Go back for this course.
certifications on the outside."
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Which ends up bas- basically being a salary loss, right?
'Cause that's time that you're not- Mm-hmm.
(43:26):
in your trade, doing your job that you have there.
Um, you'll see people opt out, right?
'Cause who wants to go back and like, do the exact same school they've already done?
Right?
So people will do something different and sort of opt out of, uh, of these career fields.
You know, and it can potentially be a disincentive for recruiting in the beginning because a lot of people do join the military to get a skill that will lead to a job on the outside.
(43:50):
Like that is a, as much as- Right.
you know, I think the narrative wants to be that everyone's a big patriotic Captain America wanting to join.
Y- y- we both know people join for much more practical reasons than, uh- Yeah.
than that, and so- And some of these benefits are.
Yeah.
GI benefits i- is w- a big reason- Yeah.
why people join.
And so- So if that's being undermined, it's, it's hard.
Yeah.
And same thing with gutting the unions, right?
(44:11):
If the ability to get into a, a solid good job is being undermined, why would you do this to begin with?
Yeah.
Well tell us, uh, l- let's finish up and I want, want you to tell everybody about IAVA, what it is, what it does, and, um, how people listening can help, uh, your org- organization. 549 00:44:31,279.99999999953434 --> 00:44:31,920 Absolutely.
(44:31):
So IAVA is, um, the premier advocacy organization for post-9/11 veterans.
You know, we are squarely a, an advocacy organization.
Our, our mission and our focus is on changing laws and policies to make things better for, um, for veterans, which really sits along 3 pillars.
.00000000046566One is, is research, right? 554 00:44:52,220.00000000046566 --> 00:44:56,940 Everything we do is very data-driven based on the needs and desires of our members.
(44:56):
This isn't, "What does Kai Hunter want to talk about today?
What does Kai Hunter want to do?
What does she care about?"
It really is what are those things that are impacting our members, right?
What are those things that are disproportionately impacting the post-9/11 generation? 560 00:45:09,779.9999999995343 --> 00:45:18,040 And what are those things that our members have unique equities and stakes in that we need to push forward because we have an import- important voice, voice on?
(45:18):
Um, and so we have top priorities right now around, you know, protecting these earned benefits, right?
That's a big thing that we are spending a lot of time on, is ensuring that the bene- the, the, the deal that was made isn't clawed back and, and, and clawed away.
Um, do have a, a good focus on women veterans and reproductive healthcare.
.99999999953434Again, th- women are the fastest growing group of veterans. 565 00:45:39,279.99999999953434 --> 00:45:46,900 Our generation has a disproportionately large number of women veterans for the reason that we were so allowed to do things, right?
(45:46):
That, uh- Yeah.
you know, more opportunities were open, which means we, we need care.
But it's also things that we have a lot of stakes and equities in right now, like ensuring the promises are kept to our Afghan and Iraqi allies that we fought shoulder to shoulder with, and that were promised as well
a pathway to a better life, right?
An opportunity to thrive in a country that is supposed to uphold the ideals that they fought for as well, and we have here.
(46:11):
And so, um, to get involved in advocacy, there's a few things that you can do.
Um, at iava.org, you can join, to sign up as a member.
You don't have to be a veteran, but if you are a veteran, there are some verification steps to sort of unlock access to other types of information and, and participation and, and benefits that you have there.
It's always free to join us, uh, that's there as a, as a member.
(46:31):
But anyone can join to, to be informed and to be an advocate because education is really that second piece of what we have to do, right?
We have to inform our members and arm them with the ability to go advocate.
But I think we really owe it a, um, you owe it to the American public to also educate them and everybody on why they should care about this, right?
Yeah.
Veterans aren't a majority of the population, and so we d- we need allies, right?
(46:56):
We need civilian allies who care about our topics and our issues because they're the majority, right?
And so there is, you know, becoming a member, you can learn, right?
What, why should you care, right?
Why someone who never wore the uniform, why, why should they care about GI, GI bills and how does this really impact society on a,- Yeah.
uh, a much broader, broader scale?
(47:18):
And then there's direct advocacy.
.9999999995343You can get involved with, we have programs where we will put you through and train you on how to be a, uh, to be an advocate, um, that, that, uh, is great. 587 00:47:28,846.9999999995343 --> 00:47:38,568 To use your story to be able to engage with policy-makers and, um, help promote positive and meaningful policy and, uh, and law change that, that we have.
(47:38):
And also, if you join our events page, we actually have some great events coming up across the country this year.
We're gonna be start doing more in, uh, on the West Coast where we haven't had as many events and throughout, throughout the country, both in terms of, uh, of trying to get more sort of meet-ups, just veterans to get together to work towards advocacy because we believe, again, that task-based cohesion can actually start to break down a lot of the divides and polarizations that we're, that we're seeing right now.
(48:06):
Um, but also some, some fundraising events that should be fun.
Well, it's important.
.99999999953434And, um, I encourage everybody to go to your website, iava., uh, dot-org. 593 00:48:17,346.99999999953434 --> 00:48:21,607 Uh, this is a, this is a, an organization that really punches above its weight.
And, you know, if we, we, we say we care about veterans, um, we should, we should be listening in and listening to, to their needs, um, and doing everything that we can to, um, not only support groups like yours that, that help veterans, but also holding our leaders accountable, uh, i- in the administration and in Congress to actually do what, um, what is necessary to, to, you know, protect veterans and make sure that
(48:52):
they get the, um, what I feel is sort of the, the, the modest benefits that our country, uh, owes them, owes them back for their service.
So I really appreciate you coming on the show, uh, Kai.
It's been, it's been great.
And, um, thank you for being a part of, of Truth in the Barrel.
(49:12):
Thank you so much.
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