May 5, 2025 • 56 mins
UnchainedTV showcases 2 vegan authors, each with a new book about why going vegan is a key to solving the majority of the problems that plague our world.
“The Vegan Transformation: A Journey to Heal Yourself and the World” is written by Dr. Angela Crawford, a psychotherapist known for empowering people to achieve holistic well-being. Her book discusses how going vegan can improve your health AND your emotional and spiritual well-being.
You can order the book here: https://angelacrawfordphd.com/book/
“Life, Veganized” is a new eBook by Stefanie Stevens, an up-and-coming vegan influencer who is on the cutting edge of social media communication and who has chosen to make plant-based advocacy her career.
You can order her book (20% off with promo code UNCHAINEDTV) at:
https://stefanievstevens.com/
Now, UnchainedTV host Jane Velez-Mitchell introduces you to these two powerhouses to discuss how their work could help us hit the plant-based tipping point and how we can counteract the ongoing PR war on veganism .
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to the Unchained TV podcast with me, your host, Jane Velez Mitchell.
Guess what, folks, we got some bad news for you.
Veganism is under attack by advertiser-based mainstream media.
Take a look at some of these headlines, very slanted, and these are not just
like small publications, some of the biggest publications in the world.
(00:24):
And that's why vegan books are a crucial tool to counteract this misinformation campaign.
And now, breaking news, we've got two new extraordinary vegan books out,
and we're going to talk to the authors about these books, Vegan Transformation and Life Veganized.
(01:03):
So, let's start with the Vegan Transformation. Angela Crawford, you are a psychotherapist,
(01:24):
a therapist, and you have talked about how veganism, contrary to how everybody tries
to make it seem like it's some extraordinary sacrifice, it's actually a gift and something
that makes us happier and healthier and more in tune with our better nature.
(01:45):
Can you elaborate what the big points you make in your book are regarding that?
Yeah, I'm happy to. I'm so thrilled to be here.
I researched this book by interviewing vegans who have been vegan for varying lengths of time,
and it was about the emotional, social, and spiritual changes in their life with being vegan.
(02:09):
There's a lot of books that look at more of the health and the environmental and ethical aspects
of our vegan lifestyle, but what happens when we align with our ethics in terms of our emotional
well-being? And what I found through surveys and interviews with vegans about how they felt their
life had changed emotionally and spiritually, there were so many positive benefits, even though
(02:33):
there can be challenges because we are still a minority in the world as far as the numbers
of people that are vegan compared to omnivores. So there are some social challenges people face,
but there was also so many blessings that people felt as they align with this lifestyle.
(02:53):
Emotional fulfillment, greater sense of purpose and peace, spiritual alignment,
true connection with other people who share their values, and also health empowerment.
You know, often we're taught we don't have much control over our health other than taking pills,
but I interviewed many people who found that by changing their lifestyle and becoming fully
(03:19):
plant-based and vegan, that they transformed their health, things that they were told
couldn't heal. So there was an empowerment that came with that. When we align with our values,
it's beneficial to us as well as to those that we're helping through our life change.
Of course. I mean, you think about people who, for example, do something, and none of us is perfect,
(03:42):
obviously, but let's say somebody who commits a terrible crime, you know, there's those old
songs about the criminal returning to the scene of the crime and how they're often haunted by
guilt and remorse and reliving what it is that they did. Well, I mean, if you think about the
violence involved with eating animals, on some level, everybody knows that they're contributing
(04:05):
to the killing of these animals, and that's got to have a psychological impact, even if it's
completely unconscious, Angela. Yes, definitely. You're speaking to research that shows how we
treat animals and how we treat other beings relates to how we treat humans and our own mental health
(04:26):
and well-being. And the people I interviewed said that when they aligned with their values by eating
a fully plant-based vegan diet and making other choices also that were compassionate and cruelty
free, they felt a sense of freedom they hadn't anticipated. You know, sometimes we do fear that
it will be restrictive or depriving, but the people I interviewed, for the most part, found that
(04:50):
they felt so much freer and better and more authentic. And, you know, a really great quote
is that even if sometimes we're challenged as we learn about what happens to animals, it brings up
tough emotions. There's also freedom and peace that we can make different choices.
I love it. And now we're going to get into our second author's book, which is Life Veganized. I
(05:15):
love the title. I think it kind of reflects you as a very modern person who is on the
cutting edge of social media. Stephanie, you have decided at some point you're going to devote your
life and your career to promoting the plant-based lifestyle. How did you come up with this book,
(05:36):
Life Veganized, and what is the key point, the elevator pitch? Yes. So this is something that
I've wanted to do for a long time, but I did just turn 32 last month and I went vegan at 16. So I've
now been vegan for half of my life. So I thought this was a great time to write this book. I am
asked very often, you know, vegans are usually asked like how they went vegan and when. And
(06:01):
going vegan at 16, it's kind of, it is a unique story. So I wanted, I wanted to put it down,
put it out there. And I think that as far as veganism goes, my view of veganism,
it's more of like a simplistic view where life veganized, that was, that was my old handle of
(06:22):
all my social media channels before. And the way that I came up with that name was because I wanted
to show people that no matter what kind of life you have, you can live it in a vegan way. So I
was living in the Midwest when I went vegan. I was 16. My family was on welfare. We were on food stamps
and I went vegan in the middle of all of that. And it actually wasn't difficult at all. I didn't
(06:45):
know how to cook either. But I, that, that's all it really is. It's just a very simplistic view
that you can be vegan no matter what your circumstances are. And then in this book that
I wrote, I talk about how I went vegan, but then how my life has been the past 16 years
as a vegan throughout my twenties. I've moved across the country a few times. I've worked
(07:07):
different nine to fives. I've worked in food service. I have been homeless and lived in my car
in my early twenties, a couple of different times, and I was vegan through all of it.
And it's never been a challenge. Fascinating. And you know, what I find particularly fascinating is
that you didn't find it a challenge and you also didn't have the disconnect. I'll give you an
(07:32):
example. I had lunch with a lovely lady, really super, super kind and wonderful. And she was
telling me about how much she loved animals. And I said, all animals. And she said, all animals.
And she was eating ham. And I just went like this. What about that? Now, of course I was accused of
(07:54):
being rude, silently accused of being rude with a lot of eyebrows. But the point was that the
disconnect was so profound, a good person, a kind person, but unable to make that connection.
Why do you think, Stephanie? And this is something that perplexes me. It has nothing to do with
(08:14):
intelligence. It has nothing to do with how successful you are. Some people make the connection
and some don't, no matter what you say. What was it about you, Stephanie, that allowed you to make
the connection? I love that you asked this, because this is what I talk about near the
beginning of it, is that ever since I was like maybe like three years old, I always knew that
(08:38):
one day I would not eat animals. And I spent, I'm from Columbus, Ohio, but I spent several years as
a child in a small farm town growing up there. And our neighbors, people that we knew that I went to
school with, they're all families of like hunters and farmers. And I think that growing up in that
environment, you would think it raises hundreds and farmers. But I think that that was definitely
(09:00):
something that actually drove me to the life that I have now. Because ever since I was very,
very little, I thought, I'm going to be vegetarian one day. I don't want to eat animals. I love
animals. I really care about them. And we had deer roaming in our backyard. We had all types of
wildlife. And because I've eaten deer when I was a kid, but we also had them in our backyard.
And I think that that, like it kind of had a reverse effect where like, you know, I was almost
(09:26):
in 4-H as a kid, but I was like too shy to like do anything, you know. So I didn't do that. But like
I almost did 4-H. And like, I think that that was actually what made me make the connection. Like
I always felt like I was in close contact with wildlife and animals and even farms and farm
animals. And then after I went vegetarian at 15, and then I accidentally read a book about veganism
(09:48):
at 16, and then went vegan right away. Well, that raises the whole issue of how important it is
to have vegan books. I would say documentaries and books are two of the leading ways that people go
vegan. Yes, it's social media. And social media is very important. And we at Unchained TV embrace
(10:10):
social media. And I know Stephanie, you're a whiz at it. But sometimes 30 seconds won't do it.
Whereas an entire documentary, like an Earthlings, like a Dominion, like a Forks Over Knives,
all these films that we have on Unchained TV, the streaming network you see behind me,
we're the world's only plant-based animal rights streaming television network.
(10:31):
Those long form have a tendency to convince people more thoroughly. They can't dismiss it.
The same thing with books. So Angela, what is the impact you hope your book has?
Because you did a lot of research, you spent a lot of time, you are a doctor, you are a
(10:54):
psychologist. This was a huge investment. Why did you feel your book, The Vegan Transformation,
was worth all of that effort? Well, like many people I had when I first was moving in the
direction of veganism thought it would be too hard. I thought it would be depriving. And then
as I learned what I learned about factory farming and animal agriculture, and I just knew I couldn't
(11:20):
keep eating meat anymore. Something broke through that disconnect that you were describing. I think
it was a mixture of things like you mentioned, books and documentaries. And so as I embraced a
lifestyle, I found my life opened up. Similar to Stephanie, I had not been a cook. I hadn't really
enjoyed food prep. And now I was making all these delicious plant-based meals that were really
(11:43):
wonderful. And I found my voice. I am definitely an introvert. I don't have all that social media
that Stephanie does, although I'm growing into that. But becoming vegan, it helped me find a
greater sense of purpose and a determination to share this. And I wanted to bring my gifts,
(12:03):
which is psychotherapy and psychology, to this movement. And because that piece about how we
change internally was missing from a lot of what I was reading, I wanted to learn more about it
through talking to vegans and seeing their experience and sharing that part of it that
we change inside in so many ways that are truly transformative and not depriving but actually
(12:29):
make our lives fuller. That is the key. And this book, The Vegan Transformation, you can get it on
Amazon. You can also get it at AngelaCrawfordPhD.com. I urge you to click on that. It's a
great book to give to people. And there's seven transformational aspects that you have outlined.
(12:55):
Living aligned with core values, extending compassion to all sentient beings,
sense of purpose in creating a kinder, healthier world, connection with others who share similar
values, greater emotional fulfillment and well-being, taking charge of health through
plant-based nutrition, deepening spirituality, interconnectedness with all life. I love how you
(13:18):
break that down. Now, to me, what's so important is there are so many people right now who are
suffering from depression. And I remember somebody called me once and they said, I'm really suffering
from depression. I didn't know her that well. And I probably didn't express it the right way,
(13:40):
but I said, why don't you try? Well, I definitely didn't say it the right way.
But what I did indicate was maybe she should try a plant-based diet. And this was my thought.
Your gut biome determines your serotonin levels. Your serotonin levels determine your mood.
(14:05):
So this old saw about eating an apple a day, by the way, we recently profiled the green smoothie
challenge, which the plant-based treaty has undertaken, and I've embraced it. And I'm
having a kale smoothie every day, which is a super food. And it's unbelievable. But these
old saws about an apple a day keeps the doctor away. It also keeps maybe the depression away.
(14:31):
And it's not just sort of an urban myth or a myth. There's actual science behind it, Angela.
Yeah, there is. There's a whole section in the book exactly on what you're saying,
a chapter called Authentic Fulfillment. And what I found through researching the literature is that
(14:52):
those of us that eat more fruits and vegetables and other whole plant foods, there is a link
between that and emotional well-being. And I will acknowledge that mental health is complex,
that in my work in the past as a psychotherapist, it wasn't that solely changing nutrition would
always fix everything, but it's a really important foundation. If we're not getting
(15:15):
exactly what you described, the foods that support our microbiome and our nervous system
and our whole well-being, it's going to make it harder for our mental health and for the other
lifestyle changes that we might want to make to have as much impact. So 100% what you're saying,
eating those kinds of foods that support our body and our gut and our brain, all of those help a lot.
(15:39):
So somebody wanted to know, Stephanie, what was the book that you read at age 16
that had such an impact on your decision to go vegan?
It was called Skinny Bitch. In the early 2000s, it was making the rounds around Hollywood and
all of the celebrities and things like that were reading it. It was a huge thing. And it
(16:04):
was advertised as a diet nutrition book. And I was very into nutrition, diet, fitness,
as a preteen teenager. So I read Skinny Bitch, and it starts talking about how you can be
healthy and you don't smoke cigarettes, don't drink alcohol in order to be skinny and healthy.
(16:25):
And I'm 16, so I'm like, I don't do that anyway. That's great. And then there was a chapter in the
book at the very beginning, it talks about how you shouldn't eat meat to be healthy and skinny
and in shape. And I thought, wow, the people who wrote this, the women who wrote this are vegetarian.
And then they start talking about the dairy and egg industry. So long story short, it goes into
(16:46):
that. And I couldn't look at dairy and eggs the same after reading that book.
It's so fascinating that you talk about this, because that was, you know, there was the first
way. Well, there's been many waves of veganism. I mean, it's as old as time. And there's a great
film, Christ's Piracy, that discusses that in depth. But what I found fascinating is that the
(17:13):
actual word vegan is not that old. It actually stemmed from the vegetarian society having a rift,
and there were non-dairy vegetarians who wanted to have their own newsletter, and they were denied.
So they created their own newsletter, and they took the first two letters of vegetarian and the
(17:34):
last two letters of vegetarian, put them together, and that became vegan. And it wasn't really until
just mid-20th century that it started even going into the dictionaries. And like,
growing up, I didn't have the word vegan. We were primarily pescetarian in my household, but
(17:59):
the word didn't even really enter the lexicon until like, well, very, very recently. So it's hard to
see change in real time. We might say, why is it taking so long? But in reality, it's accelerating
very quickly. However, there has been a backlash. When Beyond Meat became the most successful
(18:23):
initial public offering in years in 2019, the meat industry said, oh my gosh, we are going to
have to counteract. And they sure did. And it's kind of reached a crescendo. I just picked out
three recent headlines that are very terrifying to me. Meat is back on plates and in politics
(18:48):
after years in which plant-based was the mantra. Meat once again dominates the national conversation
about dinner. That's the New York Times. Yes, I urge everyone, subscribe to the New York Times
because subscribers can comment. I commented basically calling out the article. It was
published and I got something like 48 recommends. So it's very important to subscribe to the New
(19:15):
York Times, the most important newspaper in the world, and have the ability to comment.
Here's another one from the New York Post. New research is bad news for vegans, even if you eat
plant-based protein. Again, what about all the research that shows that the blue zones, people
living the longest lifespans, the healthiest lives are living a plant-based diet? And then here's
(19:37):
another one from BBC Science of all places. Even protein-rich vegan diets may fall short on key
nutrient studies suggest. Now, I think all of these are what I would call hit pieces. Please, I invite
any author of those articles on at any time. I would love to dialogue with you. Prove me wrong
(19:58):
because in my opinion, they were unbalanced articles. What can we do about it, Angela? And
do you address this in your book at all? Yeah, this came up in the book. I had spoken with you
actually early in my research process and you pointed out to me some articles that were claiming,
for example, that vegans were depressed. And so I looked more closely at those. And what I found
(20:23):
when I got to the root of what those articles were based on, most referenced a meta-analysis study
that was actually funded by the beef industry. And T. Colin Campbell, who wrote the China study,
speaks to this, that you really have to look at who is funding the research. And as you say,
(20:43):
are they giving a balanced perspective on what research is out there? The plant-based doctors
that I highlight in my chapter on health empowerment, they have shown with really
awesome strict science studies that a plant-based diet has so many benefits for our health. And
(21:06):
Dean Ornish showing that we can open up our blood vessels through a plant-based diet and reverse
heart disease. I'd really like to see how these studies can really counter that strong research.
Yeah, and you know, I do always give a chance for people who comment to make their comments.
So we have a comment here that I would like to put up. And this is John Harriman Corcoran.
(21:32):
Great respect and fondness, Jane, of course. However, I believe if God had wanted everyone
to be vegans, he wouldn't have invented ham and cheese sandwiches. Now, let me just
respond to that. I'll give you all the chance to respond to it.
John, I just want to show you some images of pigs heading into slaughter. Here in Los Angeles,
(21:53):
there was a Farmer John slaughterhouse owned by Smithfield, which is owned by the Chinese
and is the largest meat pig killer in the world. And so we used to bear witness at these
vigils, basically trying to offer comfort to pigs who were going into the slaughterhouse.
(22:17):
And there's one looking up. They're killed generally at about six months of age,
and they are terrified. And we would try to offer them water and a little comfort and say things
like, we love you. Pigs, by the way, it shouldn't matter, but they're smarter than dogs. Some consider
them the fifth largest, the fifth most intelligent species on the planet. And I got to tell you,
(22:43):
I had people who said they would go to these vigils and didn't show up. It's difficult.
Here's pigs kept in gestation crates the size of their bodies, never able to turn around.
They go psychotic. You know, if you did any of this to a dog for a week, you'd be charged with
animal cruelty. And here's an image of pigs in a Canadian facility covered in dirt. It's
(23:13):
really almost unimaginable what these animals go through. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
It is truly, truly, well, I'd say it makes me embarrassed to be a member of the human species.
There it is, a Canadian pig facility that had a very high rating by the Canadian government,
(23:36):
and they are covered in their own feces. Now, I just ask you, John, if you're still watching,
do you still think it's funny? Do you still think it's a big joke? Look into the eyes of that being.
Just look into the eyes of that being and maybe look in the mirror and just think about it.
(24:00):
That's what I would have to say. What would anybody else like to say about this? Stephanie?
Um, well, I mean, my first thought, I mean, I guess I'm on Unchained, so I'm probably allowed
to say this, but like, if you said something similar, but compared it to, what is the comment?
If God, whatever, okay. If you compared this to physical or sexual abuse against a human,
(24:26):
well, they wouldn't make whatever so desirable, so appealing. That would have a very different
response from people. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm trying not to, like, be too whatever.
Right, right.
If we're comparing this to, like, the abuse of humans, it'd be horrific to say something like
that, but because it's an animal, because there is so much disconnect, that just goes to show how
(24:49):
much disconnect there really is in general. And how about you, Angela? What would you say to
the gentleman? Well, I resonate with what both you and Stephanie said, you know, 100%, and I guess I
reflect on what I've learned from Dr. Melanie Joy, who wrote the book Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs,
Wear Cows, how I was once deeply conditioned to believe, as so many of us are, as we all are,
(25:15):
really, that eating animals is, quote, unquote, normal, natural, and necessary.
And yet, you know, when something breaks through, when we see, you know, whether you could argue
it ever was normal, natural, or necessary, it is not natural now, what you're showing us.
And those of us that are vegan discover it isn't necessary. And as far as the normal part,
(25:39):
you know, you can call something normal because it's happening a lot, but that doesn't make it
okay. And that's something I've come to realize, and many of us come to realize, there have been
past atrocities all through history that were normalized at the time, but we now know we're
not okay. And I think that's so true when you look more closely at current animal agriculture.
(26:05):
Yeah, and it gets back to the woman who was saying she loved all animals while eating a
slice of ham. And, you know, a lot of Americans underestimate the amount of meat they eat,
and the average American eats 66.18 pounds of pork alone per year. And tragically,
(26:25):
not to be Debbie Downer, but the consumption of animals is on the rise, it is not going down.
So this is why I bring this up. Now, let's also talk about the climate crisis, because
you don't need me to tell you that the world's in the midst of a climate crisis.
(26:48):
And we're seeing more and more devastating wildfires, floods, tornadoes, extreme weather.
There's a lot of talk about fossil fuels, but there's not as much talk about the impact of
animal agriculture. Just the other day, we had a well-known scientist on who has just submitted a
(27:10):
paper making the case that animal agriculture is the leading cause of climate change.
He is willing to debate anybody anytime. And I'm not a scientist, but it's a very big subject. So
it depends on how you analyze it and how you frame it. So with all that being said, I would
(27:31):
like to point out an article that was in the New York Times, not so long ago, that made the point
that researchers who examined the diets of 55,500 people found that vegans are responsible
for 75% less in greenhouse gases than meat eaters. So if you really think about that,
(27:52):
that means that if we all reduced our meat consumption and became plant-based,
we would all collectively reduce human greenhouse gas emissions by 75%. And right there,
that is a solution to the climate crisis. Now, the reason I mentioned that, getting back to
the mainstream media slanted coverage of this entire issue, that was in the New York Times.
(28:15):
It was kind of buried, but it was there. And nobody picked it up. It wasn't picked up by CNN,
by MSNBC, by Fox News. I looked. I said, well, surely they have to say something about that's
the solution to the climate crisis. No. And that was an Oxford University study. That was not a study
by just some random group of people. Stephanie, how do we counteract this
(28:42):
onslaught of basically misinformation and a blackout on this solution?
I think it's more of a long game. When you go to any type of media, news outlets, whether it's
vegan, climate-related or not, you can find coverage supporting any argument, both sides,
(29:06):
on any topic. Now, you mentioned to me the other day that, not that New York Times article,
but the one slandering veganism. And I found it and read it and took some notes. But it's
interesting that you pointed out that article that's pretty pro-vegan. And then the other day,
they come out with this one that's completely against veganism. But I think that as far as what
(29:27):
we can do, do our own research, understand that no matter what you believe or what you find to be
true, there will be an article or some type of news out there that is completely trying to
discredit everything. You can find anything on the internet to support any argument. But it's
important to think for ourselves, question things, and then just continue to focus on ourselves and
(29:53):
our corner of the world. We can control ourselves and we can control our own actions.
So try not to get discouraged by those types of articles that are trying to be pro-meat,
that kind of thing. And just know that peace starts on your plate.
(30:14):
And getting back to the gentleman who said God wouldn't have created ham and cheese sandwiches,
God wouldn't have created vegan ham and vegan cheese sandwiches. Karen LaCava,
who is a well-known plant-based chef and caterer, has commented, that's why we can now have vegan
ham and cheese sandwiches that are even tastier and humane. So there you go. Somebody upstairs
(30:39):
is coming up with a lot of good vegan products. And the other thing I want to just point out while
we're talking is that these vigils, even though Farmer John, the Smithfield-owned slaughterhouse,
closed down because of a lot of those protests, there were huge protests, celebrities were coming.
Joaquin Phoenix was there after winning one of the major acting awards and it was getting huge
(31:03):
publicity. So I think they decided it's actually not working for us. Let's close this down and put
this slaughterhouse somewhere where nobody can find us in the middle of nowhere. But it was a
huge success, but the vigils are still happening around the world by the Save Movement. And you
have someone here pointing out chicken vigil happening the first Friday of the month in Chinatown
(31:24):
by Animal Alliance Network in Los Angeles. So go to the Save Movement if you want to look at
what's really happening and be part of the solution. I will say one other thing. There was a couple
and the wife wanted to go to the vigil and she then called me up right before we were
(31:46):
supposed to head off and said, my husband can't go. He thinks he'll be sick. Nevertheless,
they did not then say, it's so awful, I'm going to stop eating animals. That's another part of the
disconnect. Even when there's an acknowledgement of what's really going on is morally reprehensible,
(32:07):
the habit continues. I liken it to alcoholism. I'm 30 years sober and I have to tell you it's
a miracle because before I got sober 30 years ago, I couldn't go a day without a drink. I'd say,
I'm not going to have a drink tonight. And then the nighttime would roll around and I would be
drinking again. And I hit bottom at a party in West Hollywood. And I had a friend who was
(32:32):
helping me, willing to help. I had an action point to get help and I never had a drink again.
I think the key is that I had an action point. So what is the action point that we can give people
so that when they have that moment of, oh my God, this is horrible. I shouldn't be participating.
(32:53):
What they say about alcoholism and I think it applies to meat eating is it's a disease of
amnesia. You forget, we have a tendency to romanticize, let's say the Chardonnay or the
Martini and not remember, oh, the blackout or the stumbling home or the embarrassing things that
were said. It's a disease of amnesia. How do we counteract that Angela? And you're a therapist.
(33:21):
So you're the person to talk to. Yeah. Well, I agree with you that for most of us, there's some
point that awakens us to wanting to make a change. And so if we're trying to encourage
others, one thing I think is helpful is to meet people where they are and share in ways that
resonate with them. If it's someone having a health issue, it's okay to come from the health
(33:46):
angle to help them see that eating plant-based could help them heal some horrible disease they
have and have a better life. If they are open to compassion for animals, then certainly sharing
your own journey and teaming up with them. If we're coming from the angle of, I once thought
those same things. I once believed that I had to eat meat or that I wouldn't be okay. And I once
(34:11):
believed animals were treated humanely. And then this is what I learned. Sharing your own story can
sometimes make people be more open and feel more curious to understand your journey and to start to
think, well, maybe I could do that too. And I think one other piece of it is when people do make a
change and they start on the vegan path, they need support. The research suggests that the biggest
(34:36):
reason that people start to be vegan, but then don't sustain it. One is that they might only be
doing it strictly for health reasons and not have enough grounded other reasons like the compassion
for animals and the environment. But another reason is the social situations. Because we are social
(34:58):
creatures, if we're in settings where we're the only vegan and we don't have any support, that
can make it a lot harder. And so if we're helping people on the vegan journey, we need to also
connect them with supports that help them through the challenges and help them to see that this is
doable and to learn the skills that will make this easier and easier. I hope in time there's a tipping
(35:24):
point where there's so much vegan food and vegan support that it becomes more and more an inviting
path for more people. Well, we at Unchained TV, the world's only vegan streaming network, provide
that support with literally hundreds of cooking shows that are free to watch. It looks like salmon,
(35:46):
it tastes like salmon, but let me tell you, it's plant-based y'all.
Plant-based in the birds, plant-based in the birds.
I bought a tofu press because I eat a lot of tofu. This one makes it so easy. You just slide it in.
(36:07):
And then you just turn it. And see already how the marinade is making the tofu turn
the same color as a salmon filet. But turn it over on its side.
You want to make sure it doesn't stick. Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the greatest chef of all? It is I.
(36:36):
Seitan is a high protein vegan alternative to chicken and it's so delicious. It's nutritious
and it's made from vital wheat gluten. So we're just going to massage the tail. I like to think
about food in terms of micronutrients, right? Do you need to make sure that you're putting food in
your body that is repairing not only the muscular system, but also your gut and your brain, right?
(36:58):
And just every aspect of you. So we do everything we can at Unchained TV to try to give people that
support. And a lot of people have said they've gone vegan watching Unchained TV videos. And we
provide the recipes online as well, written, so that people can follow the recipes and reenact.
(37:21):
We talk about the nutritional content. There you just heard Dotsie Bausch, who is a vegan Olympian,
talking about how she eats kale all the time. You know, these videos have a profound impact on me
too. I was an ethical vegan who went vegan for the animals and I didn't really think twice about,
oh, the nutrition. And thanks to uploading all these videos, I've become much more interested
(37:46):
in having nutritionally complete meals and eating a lot of super healthy things. Not to say that
I'll pass up that vegan croissant when it comes my way. But the point is that I think I'm trying
to do everything I can. Stephanie is trying to do everything she can. You are trying, Angela,
to do everything you can, but we're up against a behemoth. It's a David and Goliath battle.
(38:11):
As Dr. Silas Rao, who was a brilliant systems analyst and a vegan advocate, said to me,
Jen, we're all being factory farmed. They need people to get sick so they can sell them the drugs.
It's a giant PR machine that's conditioning people to not act in their best
(38:35):
interests. Just like people used to be encouraged to smoke. When I was a teenager, I smoked because
I wanted to be cool. Then all of a sudden, society decided smoking isn't cool. And guess what? I
stopped smoking so I can be manipulated. How do we do the same thing that happened to smoking
for meat eating? And how do we counteract this Goliath? Stephanie, not a difficult question,
(39:07):
I might add, right? How do we save the world of veganism? I think that, of course, the facts are
important. I think, you know, I myself, you know, my journey, I feel like my purpose, what I'm trying
to do in the long run is just continue promoting veganism, continue supporting the vegan movement,
(39:29):
supporting vegan businesses, amplifying the voices of vegans in the community. And that,
I mean, narrative. But I think that that's, that's all we can do. When, you know, that article,
that New York Times article, that's like, you know, demonizing veganism. I was talking about,
I was comparing veganism to like a trend. And veganism would be a trend, if it wasn't so
(39:54):
sustainable, environmentally, and as far as health benefits. And that's something that people that we
are becoming more aware of as a society is how healthy veganism is. Things can look bleak and
dark, as far as meat consumption rising. However, I mean, you're hearing of all types of people
living all types of vegan lifestyles. Pregnant women are still vegan throughout their pregnancies,
(40:18):
we're raising vegan babies from birth. That's something that you wouldn't have heard of a long
time ago. So I do think that veganism is growing, and the education is getting better around vegan
issues. And that's all we can do. And I do think that all in all, we're doing a pretty good job
trying to fight against the system and a society that tries to push meat so much.
(40:42):
Again, you're listening to Stephanie Stevens, the author of Life Veganized. I want to tell
everybody where you can get these books. So I want to show the covers and I do have a hard copy of
the other book. We're going to get into that in one second. But these are really fabulous books to
(41:03):
give people as gifts. So I'm going to put up, you can get The Vegan Transformation on
Amazon, but you can also get it at AngelaCrawfordPhD.com. So think about it,
The Vegan Transformation. It's a great book to give to people if you're already vegan. And if
(41:26):
you're not vegan, if you're veganish or vegan curious, or just want to improve your health or
for whatever reason, want to be less depressed, you can give it to yourself. And as far as
Stephanie Stevens, this is an ebook. So it's not in print, but it's an ebook. And you can go to
StephanieVStevens.com and there's a 20% promo code. If you put in Unchained TV, one word,
(41:49):
you get 20% off that book. So these are, I think, really important tools that we can use
to make change. And one of the things that I wanted to bring up, when I have people come over,
I get a lot of books sent to me. And then once I look through them and read them,
(42:09):
I don't want them just sitting on my mantle, not changing lives. I want to
give them away to people so that other people can wake up. Here's something I've found,
and it may be totally just coincidence, but I have books on my mantle. And if somebody comes
(42:31):
and let's say a plumber, an electrician, working on the internet, whatever. And if they do a good
job and they're nice, I go, look, I want to give you a little gift for you and your partner or
whoever. And I find that the most unlikely people are the most passionate about being happy about
getting this information. I had a plumber here who was like, oh my God, I can't wait to read this
(42:56):
book. And yeah, my wife wants to do more vegan cooking and really thank you. I was like, oh,
wow, that's great. Then there's other people who are like, not that I hang out with Rhodes scholars,
but we know these elitists, people who are highly intelligent, highly successful,
(43:17):
call themselves environmentalists, basically do a lot of extraordinary work and yet they can't get
it. Even though they're so smart, they can understand things that go over my head,
like the nuances of the Mueller report, for example. How do you account for that discrepancy?
(43:39):
Because that is one thing that really torments me. People who are so smart, but can't get the
simple concept that unnecessarily killing these animals and whether you like it or not,
you're ordering the hit. Every time you buy a piece of meat or dairy, you are ordering the hit.
(44:01):
They can't get that there's something deeply wrong with that. Angela.
Yeah. There's deep, both social and I think psychological factors that play into that.
The social is that we are indoctrinated our whole lives to eat meat and dairy. As you mentioned,
(44:22):
the lobbying and the advertising and all the messaging we get supports this idea of eating
meat. I think it's so prominent in our culture. It takes something special to break through that.
You add in also our personal addictions to certain foods, our personal memories with foods. We were
(44:46):
raised with certain foods and we attach emotional meaning to them. I try to understand why it's hard
sometimes for people from those standpoints. Sometimes when something breaks through,
just some piece of information clicks with us where we become curious to learn more and go
beneath all that we've been conditioned and indoctrinated and just raised to believe and
(45:14):
think. We break through that to some new idea that once we understand it, it really makes total sense
that of course animals suffer. I'm a compassionate person. I don't want to cause harm and I have
other choices, but it really takes a breakthrough of some sort. I do believe that when there's more
vegans over time, it will take less to break through. Right now, I think that social factor is
(45:40):
a big deterrent that can get in the way. It's really fascinating. I do want to ask a
follow-up question. Is there a certain personality type? In other words, when people want to sell
products, and Malcolm Gladwell has written about this, how trends accelerate and grow.
(46:08):
They do study groups. They do focus groups. They try to find out what makes people tick,
what's going to make different people choose to buy this product, for example.
I don't know that we've done those kinds of focus groups as a movement, but do you have any
inkling? Is there a certain type of individual, let's say, people who are curious to learn? I
(46:32):
would think people who are curious to learn would be more likely to want to transition to plant-based
than people who are, let's say, know-it-alls. I know everything. Any thoughts on that, Angela?
Yeah, I agree with you. I don't know of any studies that specifically differentiate
(46:53):
personalities, but I would agree with you. I think some traits that probably would be common in people
that are open to the message sooner rather than later would be people that are, as you say,
curious to learn. I do think people that are higher in empathy might also be more prone to
get the message about animals more quickly than others. Also, just people that are willing to step
(47:21):
out and be different. If we're really, really wired, and some of us have a harder time being
different, I think for that person where I don't want to be different than my family or my friends
and how I eat, it's more of a breakthrough in that case that we have to make of, okay, it's okay to
(47:43):
be different because I'm doing what's right for me. I think people that are more independent in
that way, it might be an easier step for them in the beginning.
Well, I mean, Stephanie, any social justice movement, if you think of the suffragettes
who were trying to get women the right to vote, which we only got universal suffrage in 1920,
(48:08):
so it's not that long ago, and some people are trying to take us back.
But if you think about that, the women who were standing up were daring to be different.
They were not just wanting the social status of the moment, which frowned on women working
(48:29):
and frowned on women having opinions and frowned on women who wanted to live outside the home and
have a career. They dared to be different. I mean, maybe there's a campaign in there
because now those women are heroes, but at the time, they were considered a big pain in the
you know what. Yes. I love that this topic came up. This is actually, I speak on this
(48:54):
in the last chapter of my ebook. It's just like 32 pages, the whole thing. So it's like
chapter four, unexpected lessons veganism has taught me. So we all know that the health benefits,
the ethical benefits, and the, oh my god, health, ethical, environmental, things like that,
like the obvious benefits of veganism. However, the unexpected lessons, one of the very first
(49:18):
points I make is that veganism taught me how to say no, and I write a couple paragraphs on that.
Another one, veganism taught me how to be different, how to be independent. I quit eating
meat when I was 15 and went vegan at 16. So when I started working in nightclubs at 18, 19, 20,
I was saying no to drugs and alcohol. Peer pressure has nothing on me because I've been
(49:41):
saying no to meat and dairy-based dinners with my family since I was 15. So I think Angela had a
really, really good point that people that are more likely to go vegan, like you have to be okay
with being different. And then on the other hand, I mean, I feel like there are a lot of people who,
(50:02):
you know, if you're an introvert or you're shy or you're worried about what other people will think,
it can make it more difficult for you to be able to go vegan. Or if you do, you're just more shy
and reserved about it and you keep it more private, which I think is okay too. You know, if you're an
introvert, a quiet person, a private person, you can still be vegan. You don't need to be loud
(50:23):
in order to be a good vegan. But I think that that's really important is just
if you can be okay with being different, that's really powerful.
I love that you said that. And when I was reading your book and I didn't read the entire thing,
but I was going through it and that really struck me and I learned something that I didn't know,
(50:47):
which is that veganism can teach you how to say no. And I'm a big people pleaser. It's very hard
for me to say no, except sometimes I'm like, if I don't say no, I'm going to be collapsed on the
floor in the fetal position because I'm one person and I can't do everything. You know, with Unchained
(51:11):
TV, people think that we are the vegan CNN Netflix, but we don't have hundreds of people.
And so I've had to learn to say no. And it always hurts me when I do, because I want to say yes to
everything. But I didn't realize what you just said, that going vegan gives you the strength
(51:32):
to learn to say no in other areas of your life. Boom. That is a very wonderful observation.
Jeez. You know, this is a pretty fascinating conversation, Angela. I think it could be the
most important issue of our time since let's face it, getting the culture to go plant-based
(51:56):
is possibly what's going to be needed if we are to save our planet from a climate apocalypse.
Yeah. Yeah. What you're saying is so true. And so I, you know, I resonate with what Stephanie
shared because I also found the strength to overcome those people pleasing tendencies that
(52:17):
were within me that you also shared. And so I do feel veganism can be a path to our inner growth
that can be helpful for us as much as it is for the world. And I think that's part of what I wanted
to convey through my book is that it's so interconnected when we choose our own well-being
(52:40):
through plant-based nutrition, through a vegan lifestyle, through aligning with our values.
It also ripples into helping all these other things we care about. And then it comes back to
us because when I'm caring about all sentient beings and I'm caring for the planet, it makes
my life better too. So it's discovering it's worth breaking through whatever might be a little
(53:02):
challenging to learn how to navigate all those, you know, to speak up, to say no, to lead in the
ways you can, to learn the practical cooking skills or food prep skills. All of that is worth
because what we gain and what we share beyond ourselves.
(53:23):
We are just about out of time. This has been a fascinating conversation. I don't know about you,
but I could talk about this for hours. I urge all of you get these books. It's a great holiday gift,
a birthday gift for someone or read it for yourself. Absolutely brilliant books that we
(53:45):
need to support. And I'm so really honored that I was able to have a discussion with these two
amazing authors, Vegan Transformation and Life Veganized. So I think we'll do final thoughts.
What is your final thought, Stephanie, as we wrap up this whole discussion?
(54:09):
Well, I think I, as far as my part, I'm just trying to do my part to promote the vegan movement,
get us closer to a vegan world, which I do think we can achieve one day. I think that
educating people is the key to moving towards that, to having a better future.
I have a lot of faith in humanity. I think that a lot of people would be vegan if they knew the
(54:32):
truth about the ethical aspects, environmental, the health benefits, that kind of thing. So I'm
just trying to do my part to spread the word and give people a good why. Excellent. Angela,
your final thought? Yeah, I am inspired by the vegans I met through my research
and both of you and other vegans that I know, because in living our values and really
(54:59):
discovering that we can make a difference through our food and other choices and through this
lifestyle, it has such an impact on so many things that matter to all of us. And so I just
would focus on that we can be role models for what matters. And we can also focus on the positives
(55:20):
that we gain through this, because yes, there are a lot of negative things we're trying to overcome,
but there's also so many positives that people can look to as they move in this direction
of being vegan. I want to thank you both for taking the time. I know you're very busy
women doing so much. I also would urge everybody who watched and thank you for watching,
(55:43):
share it out if you're watching on social media, and you can also share it out if you're watching
Unchained TV on your phone, you can literally text this or any other episode to your friends. So
first you got to download Unchained TV, we're the world's only vegan streaming television network,
again, available on your phone available at unchainedtv.com. And it's on your TV. If you've
(56:06):
got an Amazon Fire Stick, a Roku device, or an Apple TV device. It's also on all Samsung and LG
TVs as well. So it's a vegan Netflix. Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. I love Unchained
TV. Unchained TV, your life will change. It's just that easy. Unchained TV has all sorts of
content for everybody. Unchained TV changed my life. Unchained TV is crushing it. I love
(56:31):
Unchained TV. Unchained TV is my go to. Unchained TV. Who knew? Unchained baby.
Welcome to the Unchained TV podcast with me, your host, Jane Velez Mitchell.
Guess what, folks, we got some bad news for you.
Veganism is under attack by advertiser-based mainstream media.
Take a look at some of these headlines, very slanted, and these are not just
like small publications, some of the biggest publications in the world.
(00:24):
And that's why vegan books are a crucial tool to counteract this misinformation campaign.
And now, breaking news, we've got two new extraordinary vegan books out,
and we're going to talk to the authors about these books, Vegan Transformation and Life Veganized.
(01:03):
So, let's start with the Vegan Transformation. Angela Crawford, you are a psychotherapist,
(01:24):
a therapist, and you have talked about how veganism, contrary to how everybody tries
to make it seem like it's some extraordinary sacrifice, it's actually a gift and something
that makes us happier and healthier and more in tune with our better nature.
(01:45):
Can you elaborate what the big points you make in your book are regarding that?
Yeah, I'm happy to. I'm so thrilled to be here.
I researched this book by interviewing vegans who have been vegan for varying lengths of time,
and it was about the emotional, social, and spiritual changes in their life with being vegan.
(02:09):
There's a lot of books that look at more of the health and the environmental and ethical aspects
of our vegan lifestyle, but what happens when we align with our ethics in terms of our emotional
well-being? And what I found through surveys and interviews with vegans about how they felt their
life had changed emotionally and spiritually, there were so many positive benefits, even though
(02:33):
there can be challenges because we are still a minority in the world as far as the numbers
of people that are vegan compared to omnivores. So there are some social challenges people face,
but there was also so many blessings that people felt as they align with this lifestyle.
(02:53):
Emotional fulfillment, greater sense of purpose and peace, spiritual alignment,
true connection with other people who share their values, and also health empowerment.
You know, often we're taught we don't have much control over our health other than taking pills,
but I interviewed many people who found that by changing their lifestyle and becoming fully
(03:19):
plant-based and vegan, that they transformed their health, things that they were told
couldn't heal. So there was an empowerment that came with that. When we align with our values,
it's beneficial to us as well as to those that we're helping through our life change.
Of course. I mean, you think about people who, for example, do something, and none of us is perfect,
(03:42):
obviously, but let's say somebody who commits a terrible crime, you know, there's those old
songs about the criminal returning to the scene of the crime and how they're often haunted by
guilt and remorse and reliving what it is that they did. Well, I mean, if you think about the
violence involved with eating animals, on some level, everybody knows that they're contributing
(04:05):
to the killing of these animals, and that's got to have a psychological impact, even if it's
completely unconscious, Angela. Yes, definitely. You're speaking to research that shows how we
treat animals and how we treat other beings relates to how we treat humans and our own mental health
(04:26):
and well-being. And the people I interviewed said that when they aligned with their values by eating
a fully plant-based vegan diet and making other choices also that were compassionate and cruelty
free, they felt a sense of freedom they hadn't anticipated. You know, sometimes we do fear that
it will be restrictive or depriving, but the people I interviewed, for the most part, found that
(04:50):
they felt so much freer and better and more authentic. And, you know, a really great quote
is that even if sometimes we're challenged as we learn about what happens to animals, it brings up
tough emotions. There's also freedom and peace that we can make different choices.
I love it. And now we're going to get into our second author's book, which is Life Veganized. I
(05:15):
love the title. I think it kind of reflects you as a very modern person who is on the
cutting edge of social media. Stephanie, you have decided at some point you're going to devote your
life and your career to promoting the plant-based lifestyle. How did you come up with this book,
(05:36):
Life Veganized, and what is the key point, the elevator pitch? Yes. So this is something that
I've wanted to do for a long time, but I did just turn 32 last month and I went vegan at 16. So I've
now been vegan for half of my life. So I thought this was a great time to write this book. I am
asked very often, you know, vegans are usually asked like how they went vegan and when. And
(06:01):
going vegan at 16, it's kind of, it is a unique story. So I wanted, I wanted to put it down,
put it out there. And I think that as far as veganism goes, my view of veganism,
it's more of like a simplistic view where life veganized, that was, that was my old handle of
(06:22):
all my social media channels before. And the way that I came up with that name was because I wanted
to show people that no matter what kind of life you have, you can live it in a vegan way. So I
was living in the Midwest when I went vegan. I was 16. My family was on welfare. We were on food stamps
and I went vegan in the middle of all of that. And it actually wasn't difficult at all. I didn't
(06:45):
know how to cook either. But I, that, that's all it really is. It's just a very simplistic view
that you can be vegan no matter what your circumstances are. And then in this book that
I wrote, I talk about how I went vegan, but then how my life has been the past 16 years
as a vegan throughout my twenties. I've moved across the country a few times. I've worked
(07:07):
different nine to fives. I've worked in food service. I have been homeless and lived in my car
in my early twenties, a couple of different times, and I was vegan through all of it.
And it's never been a challenge. Fascinating. And you know, what I find particularly fascinating is
that you didn't find it a challenge and you also didn't have the disconnect. I'll give you an
(07:32):
example. I had lunch with a lovely lady, really super, super kind and wonderful. And she was
telling me about how much she loved animals. And I said, all animals. And she said, all animals.
And she was eating ham. And I just went like this. What about that? Now, of course I was accused of
(07:54):
being rude, silently accused of being rude with a lot of eyebrows. But the point was that the
disconnect was so profound, a good person, a kind person, but unable to make that connection.
Why do you think, Stephanie? And this is something that perplexes me. It has nothing to do with
(08:14):
intelligence. It has nothing to do with how successful you are. Some people make the connection
and some don't, no matter what you say. What was it about you, Stephanie, that allowed you to make
the connection? I love that you asked this, because this is what I talk about near the
beginning of it, is that ever since I was like maybe like three years old, I always knew that
(08:38):
one day I would not eat animals. And I spent, I'm from Columbus, Ohio, but I spent several years as
a child in a small farm town growing up there. And our neighbors, people that we knew that I went to
school with, they're all families of like hunters and farmers. And I think that growing up in that
environment, you would think it raises hundreds and farmers. But I think that that was definitely
(09:00):
something that actually drove me to the life that I have now. Because ever since I was very,
very little, I thought, I'm going to be vegetarian one day. I don't want to eat animals. I love
animals. I really care about them. And we had deer roaming in our backyard. We had all types of
wildlife. And because I've eaten deer when I was a kid, but we also had them in our backyard.
And I think that that, like it kind of had a reverse effect where like, you know, I was almost
(09:26):
in 4-H as a kid, but I was like too shy to like do anything, you know. So I didn't do that. But like
I almost did 4-H. And like, I think that that was actually what made me make the connection. Like
I always felt like I was in close contact with wildlife and animals and even farms and farm
animals. And then after I went vegetarian at 15, and then I accidentally read a book about veganism
(09:48):
at 16, and then went vegan right away. Well, that raises the whole issue of how important it is
to have vegan books. I would say documentaries and books are two of the leading ways that people go
vegan. Yes, it's social media. And social media is very important. And we at Unchained TV embrace
(10:10):
social media. And I know Stephanie, you're a whiz at it. But sometimes 30 seconds won't do it.
Whereas an entire documentary, like an Earthlings, like a Dominion, like a Forks Over Knives,
all these films that we have on Unchained TV, the streaming network you see behind me,
we're the world's only plant-based animal rights streaming television network.
(10:31):
Those long form have a tendency to convince people more thoroughly. They can't dismiss it.
The same thing with books. So Angela, what is the impact you hope your book has?
Because you did a lot of research, you spent a lot of time, you are a doctor, you are a
(10:54):
psychologist. This was a huge investment. Why did you feel your book, The Vegan Transformation,
was worth all of that effort? Well, like many people I had when I first was moving in the
direction of veganism thought it would be too hard. I thought it would be depriving. And then
as I learned what I learned about factory farming and animal agriculture, and I just knew I couldn't
(11:20):
keep eating meat anymore. Something broke through that disconnect that you were describing. I think
it was a mixture of things like you mentioned, books and documentaries. And so as I embraced a
lifestyle, I found my life opened up. Similar to Stephanie, I had not been a cook. I hadn't really
enjoyed food prep. And now I was making all these delicious plant-based meals that were really
(11:43):
wonderful. And I found my voice. I am definitely an introvert. I don't have all that social media
that Stephanie does, although I'm growing into that. But becoming vegan, it helped me find a
greater sense of purpose and a determination to share this. And I wanted to bring my gifts,
(12:03):
which is psychotherapy and psychology, to this movement. And because that piece about how we
change internally was missing from a lot of what I was reading, I wanted to learn more about it
through talking to vegans and seeing their experience and sharing that part of it that
we change inside in so many ways that are truly transformative and not depriving but actually
(12:29):
make our lives fuller. That is the key. And this book, The Vegan Transformation, you can get it on
Amazon. You can also get it at AngelaCrawfordPhD.com. I urge you to click on that. It's a
great book to give to people. And there's seven transformational aspects that you have outlined.
(12:55):
Living aligned with core values, extending compassion to all sentient beings,
sense of purpose in creating a kinder, healthier world, connection with others who share similar
values, greater emotional fulfillment and well-being, taking charge of health through
plant-based nutrition, deepening spirituality, interconnectedness with all life. I love how you
(13:18):
break that down. Now, to me, what's so important is there are so many people right now who are
suffering from depression. And I remember somebody called me once and they said, I'm really suffering
from depression. I didn't know her that well. And I probably didn't express it the right way,
(13:40):
but I said, why don't you try? Well, I definitely didn't say it the right way.
But what I did indicate was maybe she should try a plant-based diet. And this was my thought.
Your gut biome determines your serotonin levels. Your serotonin levels determine your mood.
(14:05):
So this old saw about eating an apple a day, by the way, we recently profiled the green smoothie
challenge, which the plant-based treaty has undertaken, and I've embraced it. And I'm
having a kale smoothie every day, which is a super food. And it's unbelievable. But these
old saws about an apple a day keeps the doctor away. It also keeps maybe the depression away.
(14:31):
And it's not just sort of an urban myth or a myth. There's actual science behind it, Angela.
Yeah, there is. There's a whole section in the book exactly on what you're saying,
a chapter called Authentic Fulfillment. And what I found through researching the literature is that
(14:52):
those of us that eat more fruits and vegetables and other whole plant foods, there is a link
between that and emotional well-being. And I will acknowledge that mental health is complex,
that in my work in the past as a psychotherapist, it wasn't that solely changing nutrition would
always fix everything, but it's a really important foundation. If we're not getting
(15:15):
exactly what you described, the foods that support our microbiome and our nervous system
and our whole well-being, it's going to make it harder for our mental health and for the other
lifestyle changes that we might want to make to have as much impact. So 100% what you're saying,
eating those kinds of foods that support our body and our gut and our brain, all of those help a lot.
(15:39):
So somebody wanted to know, Stephanie, what was the book that you read at age 16
that had such an impact on your decision to go vegan?
It was called Skinny Bitch. In the early 2000s, it was making the rounds around Hollywood and
all of the celebrities and things like that were reading it. It was a huge thing. And it
(16:04):
was advertised as a diet nutrition book. And I was very into nutrition, diet, fitness,
as a preteen teenager. So I read Skinny Bitch, and it starts talking about how you can be
healthy and you don't smoke cigarettes, don't drink alcohol in order to be skinny and healthy.
(16:25):
And I'm 16, so I'm like, I don't do that anyway. That's great. And then there was a chapter in the
book at the very beginning, it talks about how you shouldn't eat meat to be healthy and skinny
and in shape. And I thought, wow, the people who wrote this, the women who wrote this are vegetarian.
And then they start talking about the dairy and egg industry. So long story short, it goes into
(16:46):
that. And I couldn't look at dairy and eggs the same after reading that book.
It's so fascinating that you talk about this, because that was, you know, there was the first
way. Well, there's been many waves of veganism. I mean, it's as old as time. And there's a great
film, Christ's Piracy, that discusses that in depth. But what I found fascinating is that the
(17:13):
actual word vegan is not that old. It actually stemmed from the vegetarian society having a rift,
and there were non-dairy vegetarians who wanted to have their own newsletter, and they were denied.
So they created their own newsletter, and they took the first two letters of vegetarian and the
(17:34):
last two letters of vegetarian, put them together, and that became vegan. And it wasn't really until
just mid-20th century that it started even going into the dictionaries. And like,
growing up, I didn't have the word vegan. We were primarily pescetarian in my household, but
(17:59):
the word didn't even really enter the lexicon until like, well, very, very recently. So it's hard to
see change in real time. We might say, why is it taking so long? But in reality, it's accelerating
very quickly. However, there has been a backlash. When Beyond Meat became the most successful
(18:23):
initial public offering in years in 2019, the meat industry said, oh my gosh, we are going to
have to counteract. And they sure did. And it's kind of reached a crescendo. I just picked out
three recent headlines that are very terrifying to me. Meat is back on plates and in politics
(18:48):
after years in which plant-based was the mantra. Meat once again dominates the national conversation
about dinner. That's the New York Times. Yes, I urge everyone, subscribe to the New York Times
because subscribers can comment. I commented basically calling out the article. It was
published and I got something like 48 recommends. So it's very important to subscribe to the New
(19:15):
York Times, the most important newspaper in the world, and have the ability to comment.
Here's another one from the New York Post. New research is bad news for vegans, even if you eat
plant-based protein. Again, what about all the research that shows that the blue zones, people
living the longest lifespans, the healthiest lives are living a plant-based diet? And then here's
(19:37):
another one from BBC Science of all places. Even protein-rich vegan diets may fall short on key
nutrient studies suggest. Now, I think all of these are what I would call hit pieces. Please, I invite
any author of those articles on at any time. I would love to dialogue with you. Prove me wrong
(19:58):
because in my opinion, they were unbalanced articles. What can we do about it, Angela? And
do you address this in your book at all? Yeah, this came up in the book. I had spoken with you
actually early in my research process and you pointed out to me some articles that were claiming,
for example, that vegans were depressed. And so I looked more closely at those. And what I found
(20:23):
when I got to the root of what those articles were based on, most referenced a meta-analysis study
that was actually funded by the beef industry. And T. Colin Campbell, who wrote the China study,
speaks to this, that you really have to look at who is funding the research. And as you say,
(20:43):
are they giving a balanced perspective on what research is out there? The plant-based doctors
that I highlight in my chapter on health empowerment, they have shown with really
awesome strict science studies that a plant-based diet has so many benefits for our health. And
(21:06):
Dean Ornish showing that we can open up our blood vessels through a plant-based diet and reverse
heart disease. I'd really like to see how these studies can really counter that strong research.
Yeah, and you know, I do always give a chance for people who comment to make their comments.
So we have a comment here that I would like to put up. And this is John Harriman Corcoran.
(21:32):
Great respect and fondness, Jane, of course. However, I believe if God had wanted everyone
to be vegans, he wouldn't have invented ham and cheese sandwiches. Now, let me just
respond to that. I'll give you all the chance to respond to it.
John, I just want to show you some images of pigs heading into slaughter. Here in Los Angeles,
(21:53):
there was a Farmer John slaughterhouse owned by Smithfield, which is owned by the Chinese
and is the largest meat pig killer in the world. And so we used to bear witness at these
vigils, basically trying to offer comfort to pigs who were going into the slaughterhouse.
(22:17):
And there's one looking up. They're killed generally at about six months of age,
and they are terrified. And we would try to offer them water and a little comfort and say things
like, we love you. Pigs, by the way, it shouldn't matter, but they're smarter than dogs. Some consider
them the fifth largest, the fifth most intelligent species on the planet. And I got to tell you,
(22:43):
I had people who said they would go to these vigils and didn't show up. It's difficult.
Here's pigs kept in gestation crates the size of their bodies, never able to turn around.
They go psychotic. You know, if you did any of this to a dog for a week, you'd be charged with
animal cruelty. And here's an image of pigs in a Canadian facility covered in dirt. It's
(23:13):
really almost unimaginable what these animals go through. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
It is truly, truly, well, I'd say it makes me embarrassed to be a member of the human species.
There it is, a Canadian pig facility that had a very high rating by the Canadian government,
(23:36):
and they are covered in their own feces. Now, I just ask you, John, if you're still watching,
do you still think it's funny? Do you still think it's a big joke? Look into the eyes of that being.
Just look into the eyes of that being and maybe look in the mirror and just think about it.
(24:00):
That's what I would have to say. What would anybody else like to say about this? Stephanie?
Um, well, I mean, my first thought, I mean, I guess I'm on Unchained, so I'm probably allowed
to say this, but like, if you said something similar, but compared it to, what is the comment?
If God, whatever, okay. If you compared this to physical or sexual abuse against a human,
(24:26):
well, they wouldn't make whatever so desirable, so appealing. That would have a very different
response from people. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm trying not to, like, be too whatever.
Right, right.
If we're comparing this to, like, the abuse of humans, it'd be horrific to say something like
that, but because it's an animal, because there is so much disconnect, that just goes to show how
(24:49):
much disconnect there really is in general. And how about you, Angela? What would you say to
the gentleman? Well, I resonate with what both you and Stephanie said, you know, 100%, and I guess I
reflect on what I've learned from Dr. Melanie Joy, who wrote the book Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs,
Wear Cows, how I was once deeply conditioned to believe, as so many of us are, as we all are,
(25:15):
really, that eating animals is, quote, unquote, normal, natural, and necessary.
And yet, you know, when something breaks through, when we see, you know, whether you could argue
it ever was normal, natural, or necessary, it is not natural now, what you're showing us.
And those of us that are vegan discover it isn't necessary. And as far as the normal part,
(25:39):
you know, you can call something normal because it's happening a lot, but that doesn't make it
okay. And that's something I've come to realize, and many of us come to realize, there have been
past atrocities all through history that were normalized at the time, but we now know we're
not okay. And I think that's so true when you look more closely at current animal agriculture.
(26:05):
Yeah, and it gets back to the woman who was saying she loved all animals while eating a
slice of ham. And, you know, a lot of Americans underestimate the amount of meat they eat,
and the average American eats 66.18 pounds of pork alone per year. And tragically,
(26:25):
not to be Debbie Downer, but the consumption of animals is on the rise, it is not going down.
So this is why I bring this up. Now, let's also talk about the climate crisis, because
you don't need me to tell you that the world's in the midst of a climate crisis.
(26:48):
And we're seeing more and more devastating wildfires, floods, tornadoes, extreme weather.
There's a lot of talk about fossil fuels, but there's not as much talk about the impact of
animal agriculture. Just the other day, we had a well-known scientist on who has just submitted a
(27:10):
paper making the case that animal agriculture is the leading cause of climate change.
He is willing to debate anybody anytime. And I'm not a scientist, but it's a very big subject. So
it depends on how you analyze it and how you frame it. So with all that being said, I would
(27:31):
like to point out an article that was in the New York Times, not so long ago, that made the point
that researchers who examined the diets of 55,500 people found that vegans are responsible
for 75% less in greenhouse gases than meat eaters. So if you really think about that,
(27:52):
that means that if we all reduced our meat consumption and became plant-based,
we would all collectively reduce human greenhouse gas emissions by 75%. And right there,
that is a solution to the climate crisis. Now, the reason I mentioned that, getting back to
the mainstream media slanted coverage of this entire issue, that was in the New York Times.
(28:15):
It was kind of buried, but it was there. And nobody picked it up. It wasn't picked up by CNN,
by MSNBC, by Fox News. I looked. I said, well, surely they have to say something about that's
the solution to the climate crisis. No. And that was an Oxford University study. That was not a study
by just some random group of people. Stephanie, how do we counteract this
(28:42):
onslaught of basically misinformation and a blackout on this solution?
I think it's more of a long game. When you go to any type of media, news outlets, whether it's
vegan, climate-related or not, you can find coverage supporting any argument, both sides,
(29:06):
on any topic. Now, you mentioned to me the other day that, not that New York Times article,
but the one slandering veganism. And I found it and read it and took some notes. But it's
interesting that you pointed out that article that's pretty pro-vegan. And then the other day,
they come out with this one that's completely against veganism. But I think that as far as what
(29:27):
we can do, do our own research, understand that no matter what you believe or what you find to be
true, there will be an article or some type of news out there that is completely trying to
discredit everything. You can find anything on the internet to support any argument. But it's
important to think for ourselves, question things, and then just continue to focus on ourselves and
(29:53):
our corner of the world. We can control ourselves and we can control our own actions.
So try not to get discouraged by those types of articles that are trying to be pro-meat,
that kind of thing. And just know that peace starts on your plate.
(30:14):
And getting back to the gentleman who said God wouldn't have created ham and cheese sandwiches,
God wouldn't have created vegan ham and vegan cheese sandwiches. Karen LaCava,
who is a well-known plant-based chef and caterer, has commented, that's why we can now have vegan
ham and cheese sandwiches that are even tastier and humane. So there you go. Somebody upstairs
(30:39):
is coming up with a lot of good vegan products. And the other thing I want to just point out while
we're talking is that these vigils, even though Farmer John, the Smithfield-owned slaughterhouse,
closed down because of a lot of those protests, there were huge protests, celebrities were coming.
Joaquin Phoenix was there after winning one of the major acting awards and it was getting huge
(31:03):
publicity. So I think they decided it's actually not working for us. Let's close this down and put
this slaughterhouse somewhere where nobody can find us in the middle of nowhere. But it was a
huge success, but the vigils are still happening around the world by the Save Movement. And you
have someone here pointing out chicken vigil happening the first Friday of the month in Chinatown
(31:24):
by Animal Alliance Network in Los Angeles. So go to the Save Movement if you want to look at
what's really happening and be part of the solution. I will say one other thing. There was a couple
and the wife wanted to go to the vigil and she then called me up right before we were
(31:46):
supposed to head off and said, my husband can't go. He thinks he'll be sick. Nevertheless,
they did not then say, it's so awful, I'm going to stop eating animals. That's another part of the
disconnect. Even when there's an acknowledgement of what's really going on is morally reprehensible,
(32:07):
the habit continues. I liken it to alcoholism. I'm 30 years sober and I have to tell you it's
a miracle because before I got sober 30 years ago, I couldn't go a day without a drink. I'd say,
I'm not going to have a drink tonight. And then the nighttime would roll around and I would be
drinking again. And I hit bottom at a party in West Hollywood. And I had a friend who was
(32:32):
helping me, willing to help. I had an action point to get help and I never had a drink again.
I think the key is that I had an action point. So what is the action point that we can give people
so that when they have that moment of, oh my God, this is horrible. I shouldn't be participating.
(32:53):
What they say about alcoholism and I think it applies to meat eating is it's a disease of
amnesia. You forget, we have a tendency to romanticize, let's say the Chardonnay or the
Martini and not remember, oh, the blackout or the stumbling home or the embarrassing things that
were said. It's a disease of amnesia. How do we counteract that Angela? And you're a therapist.
(33:21):
So you're the person to talk to. Yeah. Well, I agree with you that for most of us, there's some
point that awakens us to wanting to make a change. And so if we're trying to encourage
others, one thing I think is helpful is to meet people where they are and share in ways that
resonate with them. If it's someone having a health issue, it's okay to come from the health
(33:46):
angle to help them see that eating plant-based could help them heal some horrible disease they
have and have a better life. If they are open to compassion for animals, then certainly sharing
your own journey and teaming up with them. If we're coming from the angle of, I once thought
those same things. I once believed that I had to eat meat or that I wouldn't be okay. And I once
(34:11):
believed animals were treated humanely. And then this is what I learned. Sharing your own story can
sometimes make people be more open and feel more curious to understand your journey and to start to
think, well, maybe I could do that too. And I think one other piece of it is when people do make a
change and they start on the vegan path, they need support. The research suggests that the biggest
(34:36):
reason that people start to be vegan, but then don't sustain it. One is that they might only be
doing it strictly for health reasons and not have enough grounded other reasons like the compassion
for animals and the environment. But another reason is the social situations. Because we are social
(34:58):
creatures, if we're in settings where we're the only vegan and we don't have any support, that
can make it a lot harder. And so if we're helping people on the vegan journey, we need to also
connect them with supports that help them through the challenges and help them to see that this is
doable and to learn the skills that will make this easier and easier. I hope in time there's a tipping
(35:24):
point where there's so much vegan food and vegan support that it becomes more and more an inviting
path for more people. Well, we at Unchained TV, the world's only vegan streaming network, provide
that support with literally hundreds of cooking shows that are free to watch. It looks like salmon,
(35:46):
it tastes like salmon, but let me tell you, it's plant-based y'all.
Plant-based in the birds, plant-based in the birds.
I bought a tofu press because I eat a lot of tofu. This one makes it so easy. You just slide it in.
(36:07):
And then you just turn it. And see already how the marinade is making the tofu turn
the same color as a salmon filet. But turn it over on its side.
You want to make sure it doesn't stick. Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the greatest chef of all? It is I.
(36:36):
Seitan is a high protein vegan alternative to chicken and it's so delicious. It's nutritious
and it's made from vital wheat gluten. So we're just going to massage the tail. I like to think
about food in terms of micronutrients, right? Do you need to make sure that you're putting food in
your body that is repairing not only the muscular system, but also your gut and your brain, right?
(36:58):
And just every aspect of you. So we do everything we can at Unchained TV to try to give people that
support. And a lot of people have said they've gone vegan watching Unchained TV videos. And we
provide the recipes online as well, written, so that people can follow the recipes and reenact.
(37:21):
We talk about the nutritional content. There you just heard Dotsie Bausch, who is a vegan Olympian,
talking about how she eats kale all the time. You know, these videos have a profound impact on me
too. I was an ethical vegan who went vegan for the animals and I didn't really think twice about,
oh, the nutrition. And thanks to uploading all these videos, I've become much more interested
(37:46):
in having nutritionally complete meals and eating a lot of super healthy things. Not to say that
I'll pass up that vegan croissant when it comes my way. But the point is that I think I'm trying
to do everything I can. Stephanie is trying to do everything she can. You are trying, Angela,
to do everything you can, but we're up against a behemoth. It's a David and Goliath battle.
(38:11):
As Dr. Silas Rao, who was a brilliant systems analyst and a vegan advocate, said to me,
Jen, we're all being factory farmed. They need people to get sick so they can sell them the drugs.
It's a giant PR machine that's conditioning people to not act in their best
(38:35):
interests. Just like people used to be encouraged to smoke. When I was a teenager, I smoked because
I wanted to be cool. Then all of a sudden, society decided smoking isn't cool. And guess what? I
stopped smoking so I can be manipulated. How do we do the same thing that happened to smoking
for meat eating? And how do we counteract this Goliath? Stephanie, not a difficult question,
(39:07):
I might add, right? How do we save the world of veganism? I think that, of course, the facts are
important. I think, you know, I myself, you know, my journey, I feel like my purpose, what I'm trying
to do in the long run is just continue promoting veganism, continue supporting the vegan movement,
(39:29):
supporting vegan businesses, amplifying the voices of vegans in the community. And that,
I mean, narrative. But I think that that's, that's all we can do. When, you know, that article,
that New York Times article, that's like, you know, demonizing veganism. I was talking about,
I was comparing veganism to like a trend. And veganism would be a trend, if it wasn't so
(39:54):
sustainable, environmentally, and as far as health benefits. And that's something that people that we
are becoming more aware of as a society is how healthy veganism is. Things can look bleak and
dark, as far as meat consumption rising. However, I mean, you're hearing of all types of people
living all types of vegan lifestyles. Pregnant women are still vegan throughout their pregnancies,
(40:18):
we're raising vegan babies from birth. That's something that you wouldn't have heard of a long
time ago. So I do think that veganism is growing, and the education is getting better around vegan
issues. And that's all we can do. And I do think that all in all, we're doing a pretty good job
trying to fight against the system and a society that tries to push meat so much.
(40:42):
Again, you're listening to Stephanie Stevens, the author of Life Veganized. I want to tell
everybody where you can get these books. So I want to show the covers and I do have a hard copy of
the other book. We're going to get into that in one second. But these are really fabulous books to
(41:03):
give people as gifts. So I'm going to put up, you can get The Vegan Transformation on
Amazon, but you can also get it at AngelaCrawfordPhD.com. So think about it,
The Vegan Transformation. It's a great book to give to people if you're already vegan. And if
(41:26):
you're not vegan, if you're veganish or vegan curious, or just want to improve your health or
for whatever reason, want to be less depressed, you can give it to yourself. And as far as
Stephanie Stevens, this is an ebook. So it's not in print, but it's an ebook. And you can go to
StephanieVStevens.com and there's a 20% promo code. If you put in Unchained TV, one word,
(41:49):
you get 20% off that book. So these are, I think, really important tools that we can use
to make change. And one of the things that I wanted to bring up, when I have people come over,
I get a lot of books sent to me. And then once I look through them and read them,
(42:09):
I don't want them just sitting on my mantle, not changing lives. I want to
give them away to people so that other people can wake up. Here's something I've found,
and it may be totally just coincidence, but I have books on my mantle. And if somebody comes
(42:31):
and let's say a plumber, an electrician, working on the internet, whatever. And if they do a good
job and they're nice, I go, look, I want to give you a little gift for you and your partner or
whoever. And I find that the most unlikely people are the most passionate about being happy about
getting this information. I had a plumber here who was like, oh my God, I can't wait to read this
(42:56):
book. And yeah, my wife wants to do more vegan cooking and really thank you. I was like, oh,
wow, that's great. Then there's other people who are like, not that I hang out with Rhodes scholars,
but we know these elitists, people who are highly intelligent, highly successful,
(43:17):
call themselves environmentalists, basically do a lot of extraordinary work and yet they can't get
it. Even though they're so smart, they can understand things that go over my head,
like the nuances of the Mueller report, for example. How do you account for that discrepancy?
(43:39):
Because that is one thing that really torments me. People who are so smart, but can't get the
simple concept that unnecessarily killing these animals and whether you like it or not,
you're ordering the hit. Every time you buy a piece of meat or dairy, you are ordering the hit.
(44:01):
They can't get that there's something deeply wrong with that. Angela.
Yeah. There's deep, both social and I think psychological factors that play into that.
The social is that we are indoctrinated our whole lives to eat meat and dairy. As you mentioned,
(44:22):
the lobbying and the advertising and all the messaging we get supports this idea of eating
meat. I think it's so prominent in our culture. It takes something special to break through that.
You add in also our personal addictions to certain foods, our personal memories with foods. We were
(44:46):
raised with certain foods and we attach emotional meaning to them. I try to understand why it's hard
sometimes for people from those standpoints. Sometimes when something breaks through,
just some piece of information clicks with us where we become curious to learn more and go
beneath all that we've been conditioned and indoctrinated and just raised to believe and
(45:14):
think. We break through that to some new idea that once we understand it, it really makes total sense
that of course animals suffer. I'm a compassionate person. I don't want to cause harm and I have
other choices, but it really takes a breakthrough of some sort. I do believe that when there's more
vegans over time, it will take less to break through. Right now, I think that social factor is
(45:40):
a big deterrent that can get in the way. It's really fascinating. I do want to ask a
follow-up question. Is there a certain personality type? In other words, when people want to sell
products, and Malcolm Gladwell has written about this, how trends accelerate and grow.
(46:08):
They do study groups. They do focus groups. They try to find out what makes people tick,
what's going to make different people choose to buy this product, for example.
I don't know that we've done those kinds of focus groups as a movement, but do you have any
inkling? Is there a certain type of individual, let's say, people who are curious to learn? I
(46:32):
would think people who are curious to learn would be more likely to want to transition to plant-based
than people who are, let's say, know-it-alls. I know everything. Any thoughts on that, Angela?
Yeah, I agree with you. I don't know of any studies that specifically differentiate
(46:53):
personalities, but I would agree with you. I think some traits that probably would be common in people
that are open to the message sooner rather than later would be people that are, as you say,
curious to learn. I do think people that are higher in empathy might also be more prone to
get the message about animals more quickly than others. Also, just people that are willing to step
(47:21):
out and be different. If we're really, really wired, and some of us have a harder time being
different, I think for that person where I don't want to be different than my family or my friends
and how I eat, it's more of a breakthrough in that case that we have to make of, okay, it's okay to
(47:43):
be different because I'm doing what's right for me. I think people that are more independent in
that way, it might be an easier step for them in the beginning.
Well, I mean, Stephanie, any social justice movement, if you think of the suffragettes
who were trying to get women the right to vote, which we only got universal suffrage in 1920,
(48:08):
so it's not that long ago, and some people are trying to take us back.
But if you think about that, the women who were standing up were daring to be different.
They were not just wanting the social status of the moment, which frowned on women working
(48:29):
and frowned on women having opinions and frowned on women who wanted to live outside the home and
have a career. They dared to be different. I mean, maybe there's a campaign in there
because now those women are heroes, but at the time, they were considered a big pain in the
you know what. Yes. I love that this topic came up. This is actually, I speak on this
(48:54):
in the last chapter of my ebook. It's just like 32 pages, the whole thing. So it's like
chapter four, unexpected lessons veganism has taught me. So we all know that the health benefits,
the ethical benefits, and the, oh my god, health, ethical, environmental, things like that,
like the obvious benefits of veganism. However, the unexpected lessons, one of the very first
(49:18):
points I make is that veganism taught me how to say no, and I write a couple paragraphs on that.
Another one, veganism taught me how to be different, how to be independent. I quit eating
meat when I was 15 and went vegan at 16. So when I started working in nightclubs at 18, 19, 20,
I was saying no to drugs and alcohol. Peer pressure has nothing on me because I've been
(49:41):
saying no to meat and dairy-based dinners with my family since I was 15. So I think Angela had a
really, really good point that people that are more likely to go vegan, like you have to be okay
with being different. And then on the other hand, I mean, I feel like there are a lot of people who,
(50:02):
you know, if you're an introvert or you're shy or you're worried about what other people will think,
it can make it more difficult for you to be able to go vegan. Or if you do, you're just more shy
and reserved about it and you keep it more private, which I think is okay too. You know, if you're an
introvert, a quiet person, a private person, you can still be vegan. You don't need to be loud
(50:23):
in order to be a good vegan. But I think that that's really important is just
if you can be okay with being different, that's really powerful.
I love that you said that. And when I was reading your book and I didn't read the entire thing,
but I was going through it and that really struck me and I learned something that I didn't know,
(50:47):
which is that veganism can teach you how to say no. And I'm a big people pleaser. It's very hard
for me to say no, except sometimes I'm like, if I don't say no, I'm going to be collapsed on the
floor in the fetal position because I'm one person and I can't do everything. You know, with Unchained
(51:11):
TV, people think that we are the vegan CNN Netflix, but we don't have hundreds of people.
And so I've had to learn to say no. And it always hurts me when I do, because I want to say yes to
everything. But I didn't realize what you just said, that going vegan gives you the strength
(51:32):
to learn to say no in other areas of your life. Boom. That is a very wonderful observation.
Jeez. You know, this is a pretty fascinating conversation, Angela. I think it could be the
most important issue of our time since let's face it, getting the culture to go plant-based
(51:56):
is possibly what's going to be needed if we are to save our planet from a climate apocalypse.
Yeah. Yeah. What you're saying is so true. And so I, you know, I resonate with what Stephanie
shared because I also found the strength to overcome those people pleasing tendencies that
(52:17):
were within me that you also shared. And so I do feel veganism can be a path to our inner growth
that can be helpful for us as much as it is for the world. And I think that's part of what I wanted
to convey through my book is that it's so interconnected when we choose our own well-being
(52:40):
through plant-based nutrition, through a vegan lifestyle, through aligning with our values.
It also ripples into helping all these other things we care about. And then it comes back to
us because when I'm caring about all sentient beings and I'm caring for the planet, it makes
my life better too. So it's discovering it's worth breaking through whatever might be a little
(53:02):
challenging to learn how to navigate all those, you know, to speak up, to say no, to lead in the
ways you can, to learn the practical cooking skills or food prep skills. All of that is worth
because what we gain and what we share beyond ourselves.
(53:23):
We are just about out of time. This has been a fascinating conversation. I don't know about you,
but I could talk about this for hours. I urge all of you get these books. It's a great holiday gift,
a birthday gift for someone or read it for yourself. Absolutely brilliant books that we
(53:45):
need to support. And I'm so really honored that I was able to have a discussion with these two
amazing authors, Vegan Transformation and Life Veganized. So I think we'll do final thoughts.
What is your final thought, Stephanie, as we wrap up this whole discussion?
(54:09):
Well, I think I, as far as my part, I'm just trying to do my part to promote the vegan movement,
get us closer to a vegan world, which I do think we can achieve one day. I think that
educating people is the key to moving towards that, to having a better future.
I have a lot of faith in humanity. I think that a lot of people would be vegan if they knew the
(54:32):
truth about the ethical aspects, environmental, the health benefits, that kind of thing. So I'm
just trying to do my part to spread the word and give people a good why. Excellent. Angela,
your final thought? Yeah, I am inspired by the vegans I met through my research
and both of you and other vegans that I know, because in living our values and really
(54:59):
discovering that we can make a difference through our food and other choices and through this
lifestyle, it has such an impact on so many things that matter to all of us. And so I just
would focus on that we can be role models for what matters. And we can also focus on the positives
(55:20):
that we gain through this, because yes, there are a lot of negative things we're trying to overcome,
but there's also so many positives that people can look to as they move in this direction
of being vegan. I want to thank you both for taking the time. I know you're very busy
women doing so much. I also would urge everybody who watched and thank you for watching,
(55:43):
share it out if you're watching on social media, and you can also share it out if you're watching
Unchained TV on your phone, you can literally text this or any other episode to your friends. So
first you got to download Unchained TV, we're the world's only vegan streaming television network,
again, available on your phone available at unchainedtv.com. And it's on your TV. If you've
(56:06):
got an Amazon Fire Stick, a Roku device, or an Apple TV device. It's also on all Samsung and LG
TVs as well. So it's a vegan Netflix. Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. I love Unchained
TV. Unchained TV, your life will change. It's just that easy. Unchained TV has all sorts of
content for everybody. Unchained TV changed my life. Unchained TV is crushing it. I love
(56:31):
Unchained TV. Unchained TV is my go to. Unchained TV. Who knew? Unchained baby.
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