Seedless OR Seedbest? | THE BITCOIN BRIEF 59 - Ungovernable Misfits

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Bitcoin
is close to becoming worthless.
Bitcoin.
Now what's the Bitcoin?
Bitcoin's like rat poison.
Yeah.
Oh. The greatest scam in history.

(00:25):
Let's get it.
Bitcoin will go to fucking zero.
Welcome back to The Bitcoin Brief, the show where me and q and a catch up every two weeks to talk about Bitcoin,

(00:49):
privacy,
open source,
keeping your Bitcoin secure,
and the news and software updates that matter.
I just wanted say a massive thank you to everyone who's been supporting Ungovernable Misfits
and a big thank you to Foundation Devices
for supporting the show. If you haven't already checked them out, go to foundation.x,xyz.

(01:14):
They make cypherpunk tools for fuckwits, and anyone can use this, even me. If you have any questions or you want to reach out, feel free, and I'll be happy to go through things with you. For anything super technical, I'll pass you on to q. If you wanna buy one of these incredible passports,
use the code ungovernable.
It will get you a discount, and it will let them know that I'm shilling.

(01:38):
I'd also like to say a huge thank you to the k Wallet team.
Not only are they supporting this show, but they're also bringing out some incredible features.
For those of you who actually use Bitcoin
and actually care about their privacy and security,
Cake Wallet make it incredibly simple for you to live outside of the traditional financial system. You can use Cake Pay within the app to buy gift cards

(02:05):
for food, petrol, and whatever else you might need day to day. You can use silent payments,
and, of course, you can use Monero.
You can connect both Bitcoin and Monero nodes,
use coin control,
and this team are constantly innovating.
And I'm really excited to be working with them. If you have any questions, you can reach out to me, but check them out at cakewallet.com.

(02:30):
Download the APK
or start using this today
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iPhone,
or of course your Android device.
Enjoy the show.
It's back from Vegas, baby.
I'm back alive and kicking at last. It's been a bit of a rough journey, personally. Jet lag absolutely

(02:52):
bent me over and stuck a finger at my ass.
Was
was a shell of a man. Doesn't normally affect me so bad, but this time around coming back from Vegas was just been my sleep pattern's just been completely ruined. But happy to say that
now, as of today, I'm pretty much back on track and sleeping
okay.

(03:13):
Very good to hear.
Quite
soft. Typical northern stuff, but
what do you expect, hey? Yeah. Indeed. Well, a a great time was had at the conference. I really enjoyed it. It was the time I've ever been to Vegas.
It was everything I expected it to be, to be honest with you. Kinda like Tacky
shit.

(03:33):
Blackpool but with 40 degree heat, basically.
Yeah. I just I just have zero interest of being there for any other reason than a Bitcoin conference if I'm being honest. Yeah. Just completely wild to me. Like, I arrived at the hotel at, like, 1AM local time, and there was just like, the casino floor was just filled with degenerates just pressing buttons and looking at flashing lights.

(03:55):
Yeah. And then, obviously, because of the jet lag and stuff, I was up at, like, five. So I went to go and get some coffee and walk through the casino floor again, and it was still, you know, not quite as full, obviously, but there's still hundreds and hundreds of degenerates just sat there pressing buttons at five in the morning. I'm just thinking, like, yeah. I mean, it's like a license to print money that place. It's completely wild.
Yeah. Do you know what I like in places like that? And I did quite a lot when I was in Vegas is people watching.

(04:19):
I would just settle myself in with a drink
and just sit and watch because it is
fascinating. And I find the same, like, if I go to places that have a port with very expensive yachts,
I really like to sit and watch, and you have, like, a fat bloke
who's, like, four foot with no hair, fucking looks like an absolute retard with, like, three hookers, like, around him and getting off his yacht. And just I love watching those sort of interactions. It's fun, and you can do that a lot in Vegas. It's It's a great game, and you don't lose any money. Any time of the day as well. Yeah. It's fucking amazing.

(04:56):
I was there from I got in very late Sunday night and left on Friday afternoon.
I left the hotel twice in that time.
These hotels are
huge. Yeah. Everything that you need is in the hotel. We we stayed in the Venetian, and there's just restaurants everywhere, bars everywhere,
convenience stores everywhere. I left twice, once to just go outside and feel the sunlight. Mhmm. And then the time was the evening panel I was on with the Bugle Boys, which was, great fun.

(05:24):
Oh, yeah. How did that go then? Was it you and Rob Hamilton or something? It was really good. Yeah.
So I didn't know much about the event other than it was a Bugle event, and I was on a panel. So I got there, and it's like this dive bar in a place called Fremont Street, which is kind of like I drew the analogy that Vegas is just like an upmarket Blackpool. Well, if you imagine, like, the shittiest street in Blackpool, that's what Fremont Street is. I've been there. I had a really good steak there, though. Nice.

(05:48):
So I turned up, and it's on, like, the Second Floor of, like, a derelict
shopping center.
Yeah. So walked into this bar. Bar was pretty cool, actually. It's a typical diet bar. There's shit everywhere, you know, stuff all over the walls. The toilets look like the a bomb's gone off in them.
Walked in, got a beer, went there with a couple of the foundation guys, and,

(06:08):
one of the guys come up to me and said, oh, your your panel suit here. Walked into this room behind this door, and there's a fucking wrestling ring. And there's been loads of room and just chairs all around it.
And, yeah, it turned out that the panel well, all of the talks for that evening were basically just people sitting in the middle of the wrestling ring with microphones, which is very on brand for people, I guess. Yeah. Anyway, it turns out the wrestling ring after after the, all the talks were finished, was for midget

(06:34):
wrestling. Amazing. How did you do? Well, I, was, again,
feeling the effects of jet lag. So I I did my talk and I disappeared because I was just wiped out after a full day at the conference as well. So I didn't actually see the the midget wrestling, but, by all accounts, it was a good laugh.
The panel was great, very good kind of discussion.
I was on with Rob Hamilton from AnchorWatch.

(06:56):
I was also on with Zac Shapiro, who's we're gonna mention him a couple of times on today's pod. Mhmm.
But, he's been very close to I think he works for BPI, Bitcoin Policy Institute, and he's been very close to kind of the samurai case and been great for providing updates and stuff. So it was good to meet him and shake his hand and was also on with Morgan Richard, who is Pierre Richard's wife, who I yeah. I I didn't know they were married. I just didn't put two and two together, and then they walked in together and, hey, presto. They're they're married. Yeah. So, yeah, it was a good panel. It was kind of on the discussion of the dichotomy of, like, number go up, freedom tech, the state of Bitcoin,

(07:32):
etcetera. So, yeah, it was a good laugh. I don't think
the full video is out yet, but when it is, I'm sure you'll be able to see it on the Bugle Twitter page. I saw a little clip. I saw you repping the free samurai clothing.
Of course. As promised.
Very nice. Was there a giveaway?
I'm not sure. As I say, I was completely wiped out, so I I didn't see the whole evening's procession. I think they had it planned, but I didn't get any updates thereafter. So you're probably best speaking to the Bugle Boys.

(08:01):
I will make sure those fuckers didn't just pocket them the little cunts.
But, it was good. Yeah. Good fun, albeit I was, very, very tired. Good to see the usual suspects.
Barn was there. Fundamentals was there. So it's, yeah, it's good to grab a beer with those boys as well. Very nice. So Barn was there. Was he,

(08:21):
behaving himself?
Always. Yeah. He always was. Give me some bloodliner stickers.
Did he? That's good of him. Yeah. He's a sweet little goat sometimes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I know. It's good to see everyone. Very nice. It's weird, isn't it? Because the Bugle's, like, supposed to be a sort of satire,
fun news outlet. But actually, they cover more important stuff than, like, 99%

(08:46):
of the other bullshit you see out there. Yeah. Indeed. It was great to meet them. time I've met those guys in person. It was a it was a fun event, and, hopefully, they'll, repeat next year. Oh, yeah. Next year. It's in the same place. Nice. It's in Vegas again next year in April
27,
I believe, which, again, I'm I'm not a massive fan of Vegas. But from a conference perspective,

(09:07):
it's like the perfect setup. These hotels are ginormous. They can cope with 20,000 people just dropping in. Yeah. The conference center is in the hotel. There's loads of restaurants, loads of bars, airports close to the main trip.
So from a conference perspective, it's a great location even if it is ten hours in the wrong direction.
Yeah. I have to say, where would I prefer to go? Miami or Vegas? I'd probably, for a conference, prefer Vegas as well. I've never been to Miami, but, like, Miami

(09:38):
does nothing for me. Yeah. It was just the perfect setup for it, really. Everything was just kind of in one building, so it was, made life very easy for us.
At the booth, it was great to meet all of the the foundation
fans and customers and stuff. Met a few people who'd I'd actually onboarded as part of the concierge service. They came up and introduced themselves and said that they recognized the voice. So that was that was really nice. Oh, nice.

(10:01):
See that kind of journey come full circle here that they're getting on fine with the devices. And, of course, it was the public outing for core stealth mode
and as well as Passport Prime as well. So both were very, very well received, and, it was great to get those into the hands, albeit demo units into the hands of people to, they can see them and feel them in in real life. So that was exciting. Yeah. Very nice. What was the reception like for the new device?

(10:26):
Overwhelmingly,
hugely positive. Everybody loves the form factor. Everybody's
they're used to phones, so people love touch screens. Mhmm. They love all of the kind of usual foundation
design touches that you get, like the curved glass and the beveled edges and things like that. So I think we're almost ready to start making some real waves in the kind of hardware wallet slash personal security device

(10:51):
world. People seem very receptive to this and the fact that you can do way much more than just kind of, you know, throw a seed on it and sign some transactions from it. So
looking forward to,
seeing what people are gonna build on it. Also, I had some very, very interesting conversations with party companies and apps.
As I'm sure our listeners are well aware, you know, we're building an open app ecosystem here where people like Cakewallet can build their app for for Passport Prime so that, you know, depending on the use case, customers can

(11:20):
leverage the beautiful hardware in Prime, but kind of benefit from, like, a UI or a function that they're used to. Cake being an example. Oh, I can now have easy cold storage for my Monero or whatever else Cake supports as well. So lots of interest in kind of business related conversation for similar sorts of relationships. Gonna be chasing those down in the weeks and months to come to make sure those sorts of things come into fruition. Yeah. Very nice.

(11:43):
The touch screen and phone lookingness
of it not only feels nice and looks nice and it's familiar, but also feel like it's a lot more stealth. As much as I love the passport
what do you call it now? Like, the OG passport? Core. The core. That's it. Core. When you're traveling with it, it's a little bit like if anyone pulls that out, it's like no one really thinks it's a phone. I feel like

(12:09):
it's a little bit more obvious
like all the other ones are really. Whereas with that, I think you could probably travel with and anyone would just mistake it for a phone. Yeah. Agreed. It well, they're all just glass slabs these days, aren't they? So Prime is no different. Yeah.
I I see what you're saying. So that's nice. And, yeah, and having the open platform, I'm
excited to see where that goes. I know it's gonna take some time, but That gives me a bit of an idea, actually. We could build our own little app on Prime that locks it into phone mode so it just has a keypad and stuff on it. Obviously, it wouldn't work.

(12:39):
That'd be good for,
that'd be good for traveling and stuff. I like that. I think it'd be good for all sorts of things as well. If you have it on you, because you do more with this than you would with your normal,
Prime device. If you have it on you and someone
tries to mug you or something like that, if you just generally have it in that kind of phone mode, it would be a lot less obvious what it is. Like, most people wouldn't have any fucking idea what that is. They're like, oh, it's probably just some random Chinese phone or, like, I've never heard of it. Agreed. Yeah. Making a note of that one. It's a great idea. We have so many. Outside of that, a couple of other foundation

(13:14):
news and topic updates. We sent a shipping update out for both devices. So if you're a a customer and you placed an order, please check your emails or head to the community forum for full details on that. TLDR,
we're getting even closer. We appreciate your patience, and, we're we're a matter of a couple of weeks away now from beginning shipping. So, praise the,
the supply chain gods. Very good. Very good. And finally, the team will be or some of the team will be in Prague next weekend for

(13:43):
the thing. It's just called B2C Prague, the biggest conference, I believe, by numbers in Europe. We've got a small booth there. So if you're in attendance, please feel free to go and say hello to the team and get your hands on Stealth and Passport Prime. Awesome. Will you be attending? Afraid not. No. I'm heading to a friend's wedding. Otherwise, I would have been headed to Prague. You have friends? One or two. What about you, mate? Have you got, any other life updates?

(14:11):
Not really. Other than I've lost loads of weight. Intentionally? Or Yeah. I got a bit
too into the
lifestyle where I'm living
and the booze and everything else. And so I just woke up one day. I was like, nope. No more. So I think it's, like, twelve, thirteen days now

(14:32):
where it's been
full carnivore,
just basically red meat, eggs,
water, salt, black coffee, air. That's it.
Well, fill up on the air, mate, because you got no calories in it.
Yeah. It's extremely dull, but it is fucking crazy. Like, it makes me laugh whenever I hear people say, like, oh, I can't lose weight. I've tried everything. I've done the weight watches. I'm counting my calories and thing. And then and then now I think I need to have this in pick. Number. Listen. You come. You just have some self control,

(15:06):
and you just do what I'm doing. It is boring as shit. Oh, and it's twenty four hour fast. So I eat one meal a day,
one plate of food a day,
and I wait twenty four hours,
and then I'll eat, and then nothing again.
And honestly, like, it just fucking falls off, like,
ridiculous amount of weight loss. I'm sure I would lose more weight in a week than the average, like,

(15:30):
person who's really trying to lose weight would in, like, two months or three months. Nice. On a similar sort of note,
was listening to you and Karim the other day. Oh, yeah.
Very interesting podcast. Got,
well, I've always had an interest in health and working out and sort of that sort of stuff.
Never have and probably never will be a a bit of a gear ad, but it's just it was, interesting to get some sort of insights from somebody who's dabbled in that sort of world before. I was very interested in the conversation to listen to.

(15:59):
Yeah. It was good. What I like as well is, like, with Karim,
he doesn't just
bro science it and watch, like, a fucking TikTok video and then, like, regurgitate stuff he doesn't understand.
Like, he's a fucking weird guy, but
he does know his stuff. Like, he really goes into it and really, like, looks at the science behind things and takes care with what he's doing. So it is, like, a good resource for that kind of stuff. I don't think I would

(16:26):
either, like, do any of the juice stuff or any of that kind of thing. I just kind of not for me. But,
a, it fucking works. The bloke,
not so much now, but when he was properly on it, it was an absolute monster,
like a fucking scary monster.
I remember going to the gym with him one time. I was, like, doing my squats, whatever.

(16:48):
And he just walks over to the squat rack
and then just shoulder presses my squat
for reps, like, many, many reps, like, many, many reps more than I was squatting, and then just puts it down like it was nothing. And I was like,
I'm off to the women's bathroom. I'll see you in a bit.
Love it.

(17:09):
Yeah. But no. Good episode. If anyone hasn't had a listen, it's not just about the juice, but also, like, the testosterone stuff is an interesting one, especially, like, as we
start getting older,
doing things as much as we can naturally. But there comes a point where
you just
can't do it anymore, and then there are some things that you can do to feel a lot better. Everyone that I've spoken to who's on it, who's a little bit older, like, never come back. Nice. I've watched a couple of videos of, quote, unquote, fitness, YouTubers who've, you know, are of a 40 kind of age, and, you know, they all rave about it as well. Yeah. So outside of that, nothing really new, mate. Few things I've heard whisperings of, but nothing we can talk about yet. Intriguing. What else? That's it, I think. What do we got software update wise or news wise? Yeah. In that case,

(18:01):
shall we hit the news? I think so.
Okay. on the list, update from our good friend Zac Shapiro from BPI on the samurai case. This came out on June, so it is, almost a week old news now. But a couple of points here, the defendants have filed motions to
dismiss both charges against them.
Number two, suppress certain evidence obtained by the government's search of defendant's homes, electronic devices.

(18:28):
And number three, defendant Hill has moved for a separate trial from Rodriguez,
which the last point is very intriguing to me. I've heard some kind of
private takes as to why that might be the case, but I'm kind of not gonna discuss those publicly. But it does seem kind of interesting
turn of events to me. And Yeah. Their lawyers have a a strategy here. I'm not entirely sure what that is. Yeah. I wasn't expecting that one. Some further comments. There's been a brief in support of motion to dismiss, which has got various people quoted.

(19:00):
Senator Lummis
and Jameson Lott being two of the notables.
And there's a couple of lines in this brief to support the motion to dismiss, which are worth reading out. The indictment against defendants Rodriguez and Hill alleges conduct that is lawful under the relevant statutes and the government's own long standing interpretation of those statutes.

(19:20):
So basically just fully in support. Another one here, DOJ should have dismissed the case under the Blanche memo, which we've talked about last time. But at a minimum, the Blanche memo reflects that the industry participants, like the defendants, were caught in the crossfire between the DOJ's aggressive new regulatory position
and FinCEN's long standing approach to anonymizing software like Samite Wallet. Nothing kinda new here. It's just kind of some big names coming out in support here to kind of give a bit more weight behind the motion to dismiss. Mhmm. Given the judge's comments in recent times on this and the adjacent cases, I'm pessimistic

(19:53):
on the outcome of a motion to dismiss. But, you know, you've gotta try these things, haven't you? You have. Some other good news. In a footnote in the brief, we've learned for the time publicly that as in the tornado cash prosecution, prosecution, the government is now no longer
going after one of the points here, which is money transmission
under the Bank Secrecy Act.

(20:15):
However, the government still alleges that the defenders transmitted funds pursuant to b one c, c, whatever that means, and operated a financial institution for the purpose of the money laundering conspiracy charge. And then cap it off, unfortunately, with a tiny bit of bad news, judge Berman denied the defense's request to submit a 35 page

(20:36):
as opposed to a 25 page brief,
and even worse denied the defense's request to file amicus briefs by BTC policy,
Coin Center, Blockchain Association, and Fund DeFi.
So quote from Zac Shapiro. Sadly, it looks like you won't be hearing from me in this case as in any official capacity. So, basically, they're blocking

(20:56):
certain industry
experts to kind of back up the defense case.
Well, fuck you very much, Berman. Indeed. Judge Berman, you dirty little cunt, you dirty little rat.
Nice.
So, yeah, as it is, I like it. But, yeah, cosign it all. As always, no no major news, but, those are the latest developments. And as always,

(21:16):
we'll keep you abreast of any anything new that comes out. Next on the list, was just a quick reminder really that,
at the same time as the Vegas conference,
Oslo Freedom Forum happened at the exact same weekend, which is pretty frustrating because I would have loved to have gone to Oslo again. But, yeah, check out the links in the show notes if you wanna go and check out any of the talks from the Financial Freedom track, some usual suspects in there that have done some, I believe, some great talks and some great workshops. So links to that will be in the show notes.

(21:48):
And next year's conference, thankfully, doesn't clash with the Vegas one. Next year, you'll be able to get tickets for June 1 to June 3. Nice. Okay. Next on the list, this is gonna be a spicy one. It probably won't be a spicy one between me and you, but, I just wanted to bring you up to well, I kind of already know what your vantage point is gonna be here, but I wanna Do you? I'm gonna say something different then just to throw you off. Interesting. Okay. Well, looking forward to it. There's been a debate raging No. We're looking at the raging debate. Quite fiery on, Twitter and probably on Nostra, although it's predominantly been on Twister Twister? Twist Twitter.

(22:24):
Around
well, it was sparked by some marketing by Jack, Twitter Jack, not Hoodie Jack Okay. Where he basically was backing up, obviously, his company Bitkey Mhmm. Basically saying that seedless
approach to Bitcoin self custody is safer.
Naturally,
99.9%
of the industry
didn't agree, especially all of the hardware wallet companies for obvious reasons.

(22:48):
Yeah. And that sparked a raging debate where there's kind of two schools of thought here that, and I kinda sit somewhere in the middle here. But before I play my cards, I wanna see where you sit. So let me give you a quick bit of background. The Bitkey operates where you don't see a seed, you have a mobile wallet, you have a hardware device with no screen on it that they generate you a c for that you never ever see and you can't see even if you wanted to see. And then they also have a key held by the company on a server, and they operate on a a multisig

(23:16):
kind of solution where you need two or three signatures to move any funds.
You can this might be a bit of a gray area, but in my opinion, you you can call it self custody because the user is in control of
two keys even though they didn't generate them. So there is some nuance there. So Bitkey can't kind of steal from you. So that's why I would classify it as self custody.
But you're kind of locked into their ecosystem in a roundabout way because you never see the seeds.

(23:42):
The only way you can get out of their ecosystem is to spend funds,
which for in most scenarios,
you can do, obviously. And even if Bitkey were to go away, you can still reconstitute the wallet, albeit
it is a kind of convoluted approach to be able to reconstitute,
which involves, like, downloading an APK from a a different website, etcetera, which for 90% of the Western world of of iPhones might be pretty visibly quite difficult Mhmm. For obvious reasons. But, yeah, they've taken this approach and that they, you know, they're quite clever marketing. They're saying, look, you don't need to see a seed. We you know, if you build the architecture in the right way and have the the relevant kind of get out of jail paths, then we don't need to burden the user with looking after a seed.

(24:24):
On the flip side of that, you've got pretty much the rest of the industry that have already coalesced over the course of the last fifteen years
over to a seed standard where all of the wallets, be they mobile, be they desktop, or hardware,
all operate on the BIP 39 seed standard so that
you have the ultimate in portability.

(24:45):
If you buy a a passport off us
and you decide in one month or in twenty years that you don't like it or you can't use it because you've broken it and foundation doesn't exist and you can't get another hardware wallet, the beauty of BIP 39 is that all you need to do is take those words into any of the wallet and restore access to your funds. There's no convoluted kind of recovery process, etcetera, etcetera. It's just enter words into wallet, restore funds. Job done.

(25:11):
I
lean heavily towards the seed word standard for obvious reasons. You know, I I'm all about kind of openness, transparency,
portability,
and giving users free choice.
But I kind of recognize some of the trade offs and some of the rationale that the Bitkey team would mention in terms of it is still
a bit of a weird situation where we onboard people to self custody,

(25:35):
particularly around hardware wallets where we say, right, this is important. This is for your life savings.
Here's this super secure device. We've spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in research to make it the most secure thing possible so that you can't get into it, you can't hack it, and you can't extract the private keys or the seed words from it. Oh, and by the way, as part of the onboarding, we want you to go and write down these seed words in plain text and then go and look after them. I've got some more takes, but I'm gonna pause to see what you think on the whole thing, Max. Yeah. I don't like it. I think there's something really powerful about having

(26:04):
stamped into steel your seed words and being able to
import those to any wallet
anywhere,
anytime.
If there's any failure and you're not trusting in
software that you don't understand,
you can find peace
with that. But, like, if everything else fails, a company goes away, there's a fault somewhere, whatever it is, you can always just go and get those seed words, and you can use them in any other wallet. And I think that's really important.

(26:35):
That said, I do understand why
people are trying to simplify things because it is a bit like, it doesn't feel
difficult once you've done it for a while. But when you're trying to onboard new people and you're like, yeah, set this up and these are your seed words and don't store them anywhere that you shouldn't and blah blah blah. There is a risk
that the average person is gonna

(26:56):
act like an average person and do something where their security is gonna be very average.
Yeah. You know, like writing it on a piece of paper and leaving it in a drawer,
writing it on a piece of paper, and then actually not remembering what drawer it's in, writing it on a bit of paper where that drawer is accessible
to anyone, like, just dumb shit

(27:17):
where they can shoot themselves in the foot.
But I don't think that not
having a screen and not letting someone see their seed words to have a physical backup is the answer. There are a lot of, like, in betweeny things where you can do. I like how you guys have the, you know, being able to back up onto a micro SD and having a separate

(27:38):
code. I think that's quite nice, but you also still can have your seed words.
You can do this, like, magic backup and encrypted stuff and cloud stuff, which is not for me, but I understand why it's that kind of middle ground. But to say that seedless is safer,
I think is disingenuous.
Yeah. I think I kind of agree with most of what you just said as well. I think it's been some clever marketing as well. I think they've done a great job around this.

(28:04):
I've actually been through the onboarding process for the Bitkey, which might sound weird for me to say, as one of their competitors, but I do think they've done a great job. And it really demonstrated what you can do if you hide the important stuff away from the user, albeit with significant trade offs, of course, which we've kind of just mentioned. The bit that I think is past most people by in this debate, specifically when we're looking at the bit key approach where we say seedless is safe or they say seedless is safer is

(28:30):
we're not really comparing
apples and oranges here because it's a seedless multisig where you've got fault tolerance built in.
You can't compare that with
seedless single sig, which is what most of the the industry talks about
because you don't have any fault tolerance with a a single signature approach that most people have. So I kinda feel like

(28:51):
sometimes we're talking past each other when we're and we're not comparing like for like because it's you know, seedless does make a little bit more sense in a multisig
setting because you have that fault tolerance built in. And Casa pioneered this years ago. Like, they did exactly the same thing to try and kind of hide some complexity from the user. So I just wanted to kinda spell that out a little bit. Like, people immediately outraged by the tagline of seedless is safer. But when you delve under the hood a little bit and you realize that they're saying seedless multisig versus

(29:22):
don't never see a seed at all, we're not comparing the exact same thing. Does that kinda make sense? Yeah. And, also, like, it was to evoke a response. It's not like they've said Seaclass is safer
and not think that that's provocative and it's gonna, like, rile every
Twitter maxi keyboard warrior in the world and that that's then gonna become a massive talking point. And loads of people are gonna see that device, and they're probably gonna sell more devices because of it. Like, it's not like that hasn't been thought about. Yeah. From the Bitkey perspective, if I was one of the more focused Bitcoiners within that camp,

(29:56):
This is a really easy fix for them. You know, if I was a better manager, they'd probably already thinking about this, but they could still have the great onboarding that they've got. All they need to do is give the user optionality. The option. Yeah. So you could go into the settings and download the mobile key. You could go into well, you can't go into the device. It's got no fucking screen. That's a topic for a separate conversation. It's extremely dumb that. I hate that it doesn't have a screen.

(30:19):
Yeah. Yeah. I completely agree. I'm never ever in a million years gonna defend that. But, like, they could architect
their setup in a way that they still have the onboarding,
but the default flow is it's obfuscated away. But if you wanna delve under the hood and you know enough, you can go and get your descriptor. You can go and get your your seed words. And you know who's doing that? Albeit not in a multi sig setting

(30:41):
yet.
What do you mean? Us. Oh, I thought you meant on their device. I thought you meant, like, do you know who's making the software for that device? No. Or what? No. No. No. No. Not at all. What I what I mean is you can give the user both things. You can obfuscate the default onboarding process to make it that you can get set up in a couple of minutes and you don't have to be bombarded with, write these things down, don't take a photo of them, yada yada yada. You don't have to have that shock factor that are onboarding.

(31:09):
But when you learn enough, you can be like, oh, everybody on podcast is talking about seed words.
I wanna go and Mhmm. You know, I wanna go and stamp them into steel. When they're ready, they can go and do that. That's exactly what we're doing with Prime
is,
the default onboarding is,
NFC tap to the back of the card. We'll split your your seed words
into,

(31:30):
three Mhmm.
Shamir shares.
And we're just gonna tell you to go and store them all separately.
Obviously, we'll give you more instruction than that.
But there's no direct writing down, stamping in. But if from the suit the you're onboarded, you wanna go and grab your seed with us, by all means, go and get them. Go and stamp them and steal. Go and bury them in your yard. But you can achieve both Yeah. If you are We talked about that when, you and Zakkron. Like, I really like

(31:54):
that,
Shamir and, like, the three different cards and, like, it's really slick and really, like, makes sense to it is like an analog thing.
But as you say, it's like the the fact that you can
then, at a later stage, go and do it is the important bit. And
the fact that you can't

(32:15):
Yes. With the Bitkey
Yep.
Immediately raises alarm bells,
rightly or wrongly. Like, they could be absolutely fine and whatever, but it just makes me like, why the fuck would you not give users the opportunity? Even if it's a, like,
restricted it, like, you know, warning,
if you don't understand what you're doing, please read these guides

(32:36):
Warning,
before someone gets to it,
it's like a developer mode or something they could have in there just to, like, make sure that people aren't then gonna write their seed words down next to, like, a fucking security camera in a coffee shop or something. People do just dumb shit, don't they? So
if you just had all the correct warnings,
then that would be completely reasonable to have that in there. And not having it, I think, is twofold. It's bad for the user, but I also think it's kind of trying to change what is normal within Bitcoin and trying to steer it more and more away from self sovereignty, which is something that I see

(33:15):
constantly
over the last couple of years. It's don't worry about your self custody,
buy an ETF.
Don't worry about freedom,
it's about number go up. Don't worry about taking ownership and taking control and all that good stuff. Just trust this company. You don't even need to see the seed words. Just, you know, just trust us. And I think that's

(33:38):
an insidious
behavior and idea
for the industry
and pushes people in the wrong way. And the
skeptical
side of me thinks that this is something that's potentially funded by people who don't have the best interests at heart for Bitcoin
and for

(33:58):
users and for freedom.
Yeah. That's a great take on it all. I don't think I've got much more to add, but, yeah, just like user choice with sane defaults that if you're building a self custody
tool, understand that most people are newbies. You're more often than not, and foundation's no different.
Your biggest fans and your most vocal

(34:19):
supporters are often the more advanced people. So Yeah. Never ever kind of forget those types of people.
I say that. I'm not assuming that seed words are advanced because in my opinion, they're not. But user choice, freedom, no soft
vendor lock in, which is kind of what I'm starting to kind of dub this Bitkey thing is, like,
you're not technically locked in, but, like, for most people with who this is marketed at, it's difficult to get out. Yeah. Agreed.

(34:44):
When we were talking about Vegas, I also forgot to mention
to kind of come full circle here the fact that Ross was on stage giving a keynote speech. Because I was working the booth, I didn't get a chance to see it, and I haven't had a chance to watch it back just yet. But
I just wanted to mention it because it feels like for the entire length of this time that you and I have been recording all those years, we've been talking about Ross being free. And then

(35:07):
I just wanted to take the opportunity to be able to say, like, Ross is on stage at a Bitcoin conference. It's just it's just a nice end to a bit of a journey.
Yeah. That's pretty fucking cool. It's been
forever, and just the fact that he's free is, like, a huge win.
Huge, huge win. And it kind of annoyed me when I saw I saw a load of people, like, moaning on Twitter and saying, like, oh, he's talking about

(35:31):
I can't even remember what it was now. Like,
something about was it the ETFs or shit coins. He was talking about, you know, there's all these different blockchains, and there's this and there's that. It's like, listen, guys.
of all Yeah. He was never a Bitcoin maximalist
type. He was just using a technology to use within a website that he created because he thought it was important that people could transact

(35:56):
freely and that this would be a good idea. So he was just fitting a couple of technologies together. It's not like he fucking loved Bitcoin more than anything in the world, and that's all he thought about. That's one. And two, like, he's just come out of a fucking cage that he's been in for God knows how long. I give him a fucking break. Exactly.

(36:17):
Yeah. Basically been in a time machine for ten years.
Yeah. Exactly.
Oh, can you hear that rain? I cannot. Okay. Fine. It's proper rain. Alright. Next on the list, one that hasn't
come across my desk until today doing a bit of research for the show, the Clarity Act. I've never even heard of this before. Have you heard of this, Max? The Clarity Act. No.

(36:40):
I've not heard of the Clarity Act. No. So apparently, this is a a proposed piece of legislation, of course, in The US that, again, as the name suggests, aims to bring some clarity to the wider crypto
ecosystem. And there's some interesting
terminology in here, which is if passed would be very promising. There's a couple of points here from our good mate, Frank Korver, who I also met at the Bugle event. It was nice to to finally meet him.

(37:05):
Some comments here around the treatment of certain non controlling Blockchain developers.
A non controlling
read non custodial.
Blockchain developer or provider of a Blockchain service shall not be treated as a money transmitter or engaged in money transmitting.
Decentralized finance activity won't be subject to this act. This includes developing and publishing software systems that deploy hardware or software that includes wallets that facilitate a user's ability to keep, safeguard, or custody the user's private keys. And the Bank Secrecy Act will only be applied when assessing risks associated with centralized

(37:39):
intermediaries.
So it's kinda like the common sense shit that we've been talking about and assuming
was actually understood
for years and years up until all of the legal action that we've seen and talked about ad nauseam for the past twelve months. Again, I've got no idea how much weight this has in terms of being passed, but it's good to see that this is at the forefront of US

(38:03):
law proposal, I guess, would be very positive if it did get passport as with anything to do with the law, especially in The US. We'll believe it when we see it enshrined into law. But, it's good to see people kinda pushing for this sort of stuff,
again, in the wake of all of the shit that open source developers are having to to go through and fight at the moment. Yeah. Definitely. Next up, we another announcement from a conference in Vegas.

(38:26):
Mister Dorsey's
block
is to bring Bitcoin payments to all Square terminals by 2026.
Usually, I wouldn't bring up this type of news because sometimes it can just turn into complete vaporware.
But these Square terminals
are fucking everywhere.

(38:47):
In most countries that I ever visit, there's generally speaking, these, Square terminals,
particularly in The US, actually, like, they're all over the place. A lot of these, like, built in, you know, self-service
POS things where they've got screens or the the Tap2Go card machines and stuff like that, a lot of them and and even increasing number as time goes on are Square terminals. So if it comes to fruition, big caveat, this would basically unlock Bitcoin payments at any merchant that has one of those Square terminals,

(39:17):
which is pretty fucking cool. On in the back end, I think the default is that, you know, you'll just have the option to accept it. And if you don't do anything, it will just auto convert
to whatever
is the local currency, which is what most vendors are gonna want, but obviously enables people like you or I to spend our Bitcoin much more easily
if it comes to fruition. So the fact that this is biggest payment process and terminal

(39:40):
providers in the world
is, very, very promising to me. So gonna be keeping an eye on this one, and we'll be quite excited if this comes to fruition because I can pay for my haircuts in it then.
Yeah. It would actually be very fucking useful for those of us who actually live on and use Bitcoin.
They got any timeline or any sort of stated

(40:02):
it just says a rollout to begin later this year before a full launch in 2026.
Okay. So next year. That would be very, very good. Yeah. Yeah. Indeed. So I know we'd like to give mister Dorsey a hard time, but,
it'd be good to see if this you know, kudos to this I don't think we've given that much of a hard time. I think, like, me and Jonathan
dug into some of the stuff that seems shady as

(40:26):
fuck on a couple of episodes. And there's definitely,
you know, you sometimes just smell a rat, but credit where it's due.
The only downside is because this is so widespread
and Jack and the Bitkey team are very much in the get rid of sats and just use the Bitcoin symbol camp, what this means is that most of these terminals by default are gonna show let's say my haircut is 9,256

(40:50):
sats.
They're gonna show it as 9,256
Bitcoin with the Bitcoin logo before the nine at the start, which I fucking hate. It just doesn't make any sense.
Obviously, like, they're gonna show the dollar or the pound amount underneath. So it's gonna minimize confusion, but I I don't know. I'm just in the Sats camp personally. I'm in the Sats camp. Or if you're like, oh, we can't have Sats for some reason. Like, if we have Sats, then

(41:16):
the world's gonna fucking explode. I'd be like, okay. Just have Bitcoin.
Zero point zero zero zero or, like, even, like, millibits or anything is better than changing
sats to Bitcoin. Like, how many Bitcoin are there? Oh, there's only 21,000,000.
It's like a big thing that everyone sells. Like, oh, yeah. It's only 21,000,000. There can only ever be 21,000,000. Actually, a little bit less because

(41:38):
it's like, well, how? Because I've just spent 21,000,000 on my fucking dinner.
It's fucking retarded.
Yeah. Indeed. I like the hybrid approach, which is what we do in Envoy, is that
we show I think by default, we show all eight decimal places.
But let's say it's 9,000 SATs. All of the leading zeros

(42:00):
will be, like,
in a faint gray, and then the actual kind of Saturn. So let's say 9,256
Yeah. Would be in, like, a bold color. So you can see all the decimal points, but it's very, very easy even at a glance to see, oh, it's 9,256
because there's in that example, there's four bold numbers.
Yeah. That makes total sense.

(42:21):
So we'll see. But promising news. Not so promising news. The EU is to ban anonymous crypto accounts and privacy coins by 2027.
Now you could just call this non news because
most of the privacy coins are kind of albeit softly outlawed already because you can't just buy them on any centralized exchanges. Correct me if I'm wrong,

(42:43):
but it sounds as though they're kind of doubling down on this kind of narrative here. So the European Union, also known as the Gulag,
is set to impose sweeping AML rules that will ban privacy preserving tokens and anonymous cryptocurrency accounts from 2027.
The bit that is more interesting to me here is that final piece
where they say anonymous

(43:03):
cryptocurrency
accounts.
Like, that's a quite a wide term that could be applied
with very, very differing
application. Do you know what I mean? Say that again. The European Union is set to impose sweeping anti money laundering rules that will ban privacy preserving tokens, so Monero, etcetera,
and
anonymous

(43:24):
cryptocurrency
accounts Good luck. From 2027.
Like, what does anonymous cryptocurrency accounts even mean? Nothing. My assumption would be they'll go after the
decentralized exchanges
where you can do swaps or that kind of stuff. That would be my guess is, like Yeah. They've already gone after the centralized
entities that were allowing you to buy, sell, swap, whatever.

(43:49):
So then all the users have moved away from that, and now they're using Yeah. Is it Havino and all these
covering on the last episode. They've moved to those. So then they'll try and go after these things and fail, obviously, because it's like,
good luck. And then they probably mean accounts as in, like, wallets because they don't understand what the fuck they're talking about because they're the European Union. They're retards.

(44:13):
Well, that's the point that I'm trying to kind of eke out here is that you could apply. Like, is an account on Envoy for your passport? Yep. Is that an anonymous account? You know, we don't collect any of your data. To us, it's anonymous.
Yeah. I'd imagine so. I mean, if you look where they're going directionally,
it would be very bad anyone to have any type of freedom or,

(44:34):
privacy
at all.
And so, yeah, I would guess that they're probably vague on purpose
and keep moving in that direction.
We know they're gonna keep doing that. And so then it's just make the tools as good as
as you can for as long as you can before they completely go mental. I don't know. It kind of seems like a an obvious thing that they're gonna do, but it doesn't make it any less disgusting.

(44:58):
Absolutely. Yeah. Intentionally vague. We you know, I think we've said that before so they could
decide what it means later on when they wanna prosecute somebody. Exactly.
The the only other thing they have said here is under the new regulatory framework, CASPs,
crypto asset service providers, I believe,
operating in at least six member states will be under direct AML supervision.

(45:20):
In the initial stage, AMLA
plans to select 40 entities with at least one entity per member state. So it sounds like they're doing it selectively at So if you're a business re re re between the lines, you got nothing to worry about because we're only gonna pick one person for now.
The threshold includes a minimum of 20,000 customers residing in the host member state. So, yeah, again, it's it reads as though they're gonna target exchanges at Lovely. And then move in from there. But we'll see.

(45:49):
My telegram's going nuts. Sorry. Let me just quit that. Yeah. I was gonna say you're so popular. Somebody's just joined a group chat.
Okay. Next on the list, we have a statement
from the Bitcoin core developers around
the transaction relay policy, which ties into all of the
knots drama and all of the opportune data carrier size limits, yada yada yada. The link will be in the show notes. I'm not gonna sit here and read it verbatim,

(46:15):
but they kind of take the common sense approach, which Max and I, and I think John has also mentioned as well, is that, look, people are gonna do shit that you don't agree with. We are not gonna lock all of the doors and kibosh some legitimate use cases
to try and stop these and then proceed with the game of whack a mole. We're not promoting this type of usage, but it is the least harmful way that these types of entities can operate rather than bloating the UTXO set, blah blah blah, all that sort of stuff. So it's not anything new. It's just that they come out with an official statement.

(46:46):
And since we've been recording,
they have actually
merged
the pull request into Bitcoin Core literally thirty minutes ago.
That basically removes the data carrier size on op returns by default.
Haven't had time to read into it to see whether or not you can configure it in the settings afterwards. I'm sure that will still be an option, but the default data area size now is that there is no limit. So what that means is that there's kind of no upturn

(47:15):
limit so that it incentivizes
the types of entities to be able to use that pruneable data storage method
rather than just kind of stuffing everything into multiple outputs and just forcing everybody that has a node
to consistently
look after a bigger and bigger UTXO set. So in my opinion, common sense has prevailed, and I'm glad that this is the end of it. Well, hopefully, it's the end of it, and we can go on to whining about something else.

(47:41):
I don't know. I I feel like this is such a movement that people are gonna hold on to it. Even if it's just for virtue tokens, I still feel like people are gonna
do this for for a good while now. Yeah. Well, I think that's the kind of point here is that the other side of this argument or the other camp where they're like, no. You know, fix the filters, yada yada yada, they can still do that. They can go and run knots

(48:03):
knowing as we know, complete waste of time, they can, you know, feel good that their node and their mempool is not relaying the stuff that they don't like. But ultimately, it's not gonna stop it getting into a block.
And everybody else, I. E. The majority of the network who runs the the latest Bitcoin Core update when this pull request gets kind of forms part of a release,
we'll continue to have, you know, accurate mempool estimations and all that sort of stuff.

(48:26):
Yeah. Well, hopefully, they calm down a little bit. Let's see. Yeah. I'm sure we'll just move on to the next argument
Yeah. Which could be this next
new point.
James O'Byrne again, I think this was only this morning, so hot off the press. James O'Byrne has written a letter to the technical Bitcoin community, which has been cosigned by

(48:48):
loads and loads of other kind of industry and economical players. Foundation is one of those, I must stress,
to back this. Basically, where they've written an open letter to say, look. It's about time that we start to have serious discussions about activating
CTV, bit one one nine, and op check sig from stack, which you'll see on Twitter as c s f s, which is bit 348.

(49:12):
Basically,
we're ready. These things have they've been well tested. You know, they've been discussed for well, in the CTV case, over five years now. And we, the cosign,
think it's time to start to implement this sort of stuff.
So I'm hoping, obviously,
I back this as well. We've cosigned that foundation
that we can start to push forward the open PRs, which which again will be linked in the show notes, to kind of bring this to fruition in the next six to twelve months so that we can

(49:42):
stop bike shedding about it. And, you know, it's high time that these, from my research, quite safe upgrades and quite low code admission changes for what they enable. It's high time that we get them into Bitcoin Core. Don't know whether you've had chance to kind of dive into the whole CTV thing and and whether you've got any thoughts on this. I have, but it was so long ago

(50:03):
and so much has happened in life since then that I've kind of switched off from a lot of this stuff. So do you mind giving me a quick rundown? It's like check template verify or something like that. Correct. Yeah. Check template verify and check sig from stack. They go hand in hand to unleash a lot of cool use cases and scaling solutions

(50:26):
with Bitcoin.
Some I won't go into the too deep into the technicals on kind of how it works because that's way above my pay grade. But, basically, CTV is, like, how you can
encumber your coins
and dictate how they can once they're in your control,
how they can then be spent thereafter.
Ah, this is, sorry. This this is like putting spending conditions

(50:49):
and, like
On your own coins. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. And then checksick from stat goes hand in hand to enable some of these use cases that I'll mention in a
It's just a case of how, like, the transaction is verified. So rather than
verifying a signature against the whole transaction,
you I believe it's basically you verify a signature against, like, a part of a transaction. And again, we're getting way too technical now and I'm kind of almost out of my depth. But that enables

(51:17):
the following, basically, when you combine it with CTV.
So we've got things like simplified Lightning Network. You've probably heard things like l two Mhmm. Which simplifies channel updates. You know, if we got these updates in, it would mean that your nodes don't have to continually
keep, like, a whole list of all of the states in, like, a database. They just keep the latest one, which would make running a light node easier. So it massively

(51:40):
improve the the efficiency there and just improve, like, channel management, basically. Mhmm. You can also do you know, it improves discrete log contracts, which enables, like, off chain things like betting
and anything that involves a party oracle, basically. That's all improved with CTV.
Vaults, which is another one. That's probably the most talked about one where you can encumber your coins to be like,

(52:02):
when I receive these,
I don't want them to be spent until this block high or Yeah. Yeah. When it when they're spent to, it needs to go to this address. Yeah. So you can have, like, an early warning system if any anything happens to your main stack. It just makes, like, securing Bitcoin itself cost to be much more foolproof. So that's one of the biggest ones. Yeah. That's massive to me. Yeah. It's huge. Huge. That's something that ever since it's been talked about, I've been like because a lot of this stuff, I'm like, I don't really care. Like, it's it's not, you know, that interesting to me. But that, I hear the things that it can do in theory, and I'm like, fucking hell. My security setup could be way better than it is now. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

(52:41):
And then you've got, like, some more niche stuff, like, it improves all the scaling stuff like BitVM
and
another one called Floating Signatures, which I don't really know a great deal about.
But basically,
it unlocked a lot of stuff. Oh, you can also do cool stuff with, like, mining payouts
where you can optimize,
like, for fees and, you know, pay people out in smaller amounts, but still give them self custody, where previously you'd have to go, you know, and do that sort of stuff on light and run all of that infrastructure.

(53:10):
Exchanges can do stuff like, I believe, what's the tagline that they've been using? Congestion control,
where they can kind of pay people out using CTV outputs, but have the the customer be able to claim those in lower fee environments and that sort of stuff. So there's loads of different use cases that can be be implemented with these two combined. ARC is another one, which is kind of like a scaling solution, which is like a layer two network, which is possible without CTV, but it becomes drastically

(53:37):
easier to implement with CTV, and it makes the overheads much, much smaller. So, again, some of this sort of stuff is like pie in the sky. We've got a concept.
Other stuff is like, we know this would make self custody better tomorrow.
And if for that reason alone, it's enough for me to get behind it and support it.
And you've got so many people on on on this list here that, you know, real kind of

(53:59):
industry players that have got behind this, Seth from Cake, Rob Hamilton, Portland Hoddle, Jameson Lop,
Evan from Zoos, Ben Carmon, Andrew Polstra. Like, there's a wide range of people in full support of this now. Yeah. In theory, as long as it's safe to do, and that's what you lean on those types of people
for to check and make sure that it's not gonna do something, like, drastically

(54:24):
bad and gonna fuck everything up. But
in theory,
just for that control over your security and being able to I would say, like you know, there's that thing where it was like, a multisig is a 10 x improvement on single sig. Like, everyone was always, like, 10 x better.
Well, I think, like, this would make it 10 x better. Yeah. I agree. Like, this will

(54:46):
unleash purely just looking at the vault inside of things. It's gonna there'll be loads more companies and wallet projects that pop up just to to leverage that and give the those sorts of options to users outside of all of the other stuff like Arc that I've mentioned as well. So We covered it. Was it two episodes ago or three episodes ago? We really went into Arc for, I don't know, fifteen minutes, twenty minutes.

(55:08):
Yeah. Yeah. Indeed. We did. That's a very promising solution as well in terms of make some great trade offs in terms of, like, it gives you the speed of payments of lightning without, like, the the inbound liquidity stuff or problems, should I say. So I'm I'm kind of quietly
optimistic about ARC and, you know, seeing that CCV

(55:28):
is getting more weight behind it and and knowing what that can do for things like ARC in terms of making it much easier to to run and get off the ground. Very,
nice to see this letter come out and will, of course, keep everybody abreast of what the kind of feedback to it is because I'm sure there's gonna be some pushback. But just one final thing to add a little bit more weight around. You made a a a sensible comment where I was like, if this is safe, then, yeah, I want it. CheckSig from Stack has been in the Blockchain Elements code, which powers the Liquid network for eight years.

(55:59):
And Jeremy Rubin, the kind of father of CTV, has had something like a 5 Bitcoin bounty
on finding a hole in his code
for basically since he released it, and nobody's claimed that yet. So this has been battle tested and incentivized for people to poke holes in it for literally years, and nobody's been able to do it yet. So I'm excited to see the conversation moving forward. Very good. Okay. Just a couple of software updates before we can sign off with the Boosts main. Phoenix version two point six point one has been released.

(56:32):
This is pretty cool. Phoenix can now read NFC tags as well as broadcast a Phoenix Bitcoin address or lightning payment request via NFC.
This comes as an alternative to QR codes for sharing payment requests between devices.
Pretty nice. I like that.
This is available
surprisingly, on both iOS and Android. Apple, of course, renowned for locking down their, NFC functionality.

(56:56):
Oh, hang on. I got too excited. Note that on iOS, emulating the NFC tag is limited to users in the European economic area due to restrictions by Apple.
That's one thing that,
the EU has done right then. Sorry, Americans.
Oh, they've also added, this is pretty cool, an a spending PIN as well. So this pin controls spending and is separate from the lock pin, which can control to open the app. This is useful if you want to let someone use your wallet to receive funds, but not be able to spend or view the seed.

(57:28):
Very nice. I think I might steal that and use it in Envoy. That's great.
Bloody cloner.
Zeus Pay Plus is now live. This so this is a service by, of course, the guys from Zeus
where you can sign up, for a year, and you get a custom Lightning address or multiple custom Lightning address handles,
access to the web based point of sale, early access to new features, 20%

(57:52):
off all LSP channel leasing services,
and access to exclusive
merch, which is coming soon.
So that's pretty cool, and great for kind of small merchants that don't wanna have to handle all of the the lightning
headache. Mhmm. You can just allow CCUS Pay and CCUS Pay plus subscription
to, handle all of that for you. Don't know on costings here because there's nothing linked in the, tweet. But,

(58:18):
cool product to to have on board, and I'm gonna try and check out the, or find a link that we can include in the show notes that includes the cost in this as well.
Finally, Nunchuk
one point six nine point one has been released. They have added manual and automatic fee selection to Taproot Multisate wallets.
You can show saved address labels in the transaction details,

(58:38):
and you have the option to rebroadcast
rejected transactions
as well. That's it for updates. Let's hit the boost, mate. I'll let you go
Okay.
Web wipe with an XMR chat for 004345685
We're hosting a privacy meetup in Charlotte, North Carolina

(59:00):
on July
from six to 10PM
at Great Wagon Road Distilling.
Topics include
privacy tools for XMR and BTC,
k wallet,
Ashigaru presentation.
Thank you to Ungovernor Misfits,
and
Dojo Bay, NIMVPN,
Simplex,

(59:20):
and more
are all are welcome. Very, very nice. That sounds like a meetup I'd like to go to. Yeah.
What
an awesome
topic selection you've got there.
That is very different to a lot of meetups that I see. So keep it going. And anyone who's anywhere near there, I would highly suggest you go and check it out. Panjo

(59:43):
with 0.0067547XMR.
This is in response to me, asking
for a reminder on bounty or a very tongue in cheek bounty that I mentioned, and I can't remember what it was for now. But Panju said, I believe it was a 100 tats per person and a hug. Thanks for the reminder, Max.

(01:00:04):
Please donate an undisclosed amount to hashtag free samurai. As for the hug, maybe I'll catch Q at a conference someday. Fine by me? And, yeah, I'll go ahead and do the free samurai donation on your behalf. Thank you very much. Very nice. 100 sats well spent.
It was for
an Allegy quote, wasn't it? That was it. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you, Panteo.

(01:00:25):
Well played.
R e s
t
e c p.
Do you even know what that spells?
One of my kids the other day, I I can't remember why, I was like, boyakasha.
And then
they've taken to practicing that around the house. Love it. It's very good. Late stage Huddle with 10,000,

(01:00:47):
hashtag free samurai.
Kristin Lindgren with 10,000,
hashtag free samurai.
Barn miner on Podverse,
Change the name in app so you're not an anon, you fucking
cunt. You dirty little goat. Clean your hooves.
Expatriotic.
That's a message from expatriotic to you, Barn miner. 3,333

(01:01:11):
sats.
Damn
Thirtieth Floor baller.
I was
5
Dash 111
Room number. Oh. Vegas.
I did not touch any gambling.
I gamble
with mining enough as it is.
Ten days is long.
Jesus.
Ding, ding, ding.

(01:01:32):
Thank you, Bartminder.
Pies with 1,000 sats.
Fuck off you British cunt fags.
Joke, you all know I've got nothing but love for you, cunts.
You brought the world my favorite sport, hooliganism.
You're welcome.

(01:01:53):
Shadowy Superbadger
streamed over 5,000 sats on the last two shows.
User
seven three two four one four
three seven streamed 510
sats, and Turkey streamed 500 sats. So thank you to all the people streaming sats across. Thank you for all the boosts even to pies.

(01:02:17):
It's called against cunts every single time. We love you all.
Yes. Absolutely. Thanks for getting involved, guys. You are the ones that keep the show going. You definitely are. As well as Jordan and the rest of the day. Thank you to all of you cunts as well. Have you ever watched talking of the hooliganism, did you ever watch, like, Green Street and Football Factory and all those?
Of course. I I was a wannabe one of those back in the day going to watch my Were you?

(01:02:41):
Yeah. Yeah. With the, Burberry and Aquascutum cap on. Yeah. That was A little hooligan.
Never once had a a single fight, anything. Just to shout from the terraces.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. I was speaking to a friend of mine the other day, fellow Bitcoiner.
And he was like, yeah. I was,
part of whatever firm it was, like, one of these German firms.

(01:03:04):
And I was like, really? And he was like, yeah. I was like, I didn't even know you like football. He was like, no. I loved fighting, though. He was like, I did it for, like, five years. Went to every single game. Had all the fights. I fucking was, like, proper into it. It was, like, the person I would least expect to have been involved in that kind of stuff. So you never
know. Always the quiet ones you've gotta watch. Yeah. Exactly. They're not my scene, really. I don't I don't even like for every single person that I meet anywhere around the world who finds out that I'm British. Almost every single time it's this. It's like, oh, nice to meet you. Oh, yeah. My name is such and such. My name is such and such. Oh, so, what team do you support? Support. Yeah. I get that all the time. Every time. And I'm like, I don't. Same. I don't care about football

(01:03:46):
at all. I never watch it. I don't care, like, every single fucking time. Yeah. It's exactly the same for me. I always give the same answer as you. Yeah. Couldn't give two shits. Yeah. Couldn't care less.
Alright. Well, if we don't have anything else, I will catch you on the next one, mate. We will indeed. Yeah. Free samurai. Hashtag free samurai. Go and buy your merch. Oh, I'm glad you brought that up. Support them.

(01:04:14):
Yeah. It's back online.
Everything from the lot should now be shipped. I was just messaging back and to someone last night. I think the last bits are being shipped this morning,
but we pretty much sold out without even telling anyone. It was just like someone in TSB mentioned that it might be back, and then people just kept checking the website. So, we pretty much sold out. A load more is being printed at the moment, but a fair few $100,

(01:04:38):
maybe even thousand dollars already has been sent to Free Samurai. So
thank you very much to everyone.
Love to hear it. Keep up the good work, guys.
Alright. Catch you on the next one, mate. See you, mate.

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Seedless OR Seedbest? | THE BITCOIN BRIEF 59

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