April 27, 2025 • 42 mins
Hello show notes readers!
This week, we're trying something new in our mission to bring you insights from the world of entrepenuership. We're bringing in an outside expert to exlpore an area of entrepeneurship that some of you may have thought about - real estate!
This week, we’re joined by Lindsay Howard, broker and entrepreneur, for a deep dive into the real world of real estate — starting a family brokerage, surviving the NAR commission shakeup, why Zillow is the villain nobody asked for, and how the 6% mortgage panic is mostly a memory issue. We also talk through the hidden challenges of working with builders, why every new agent needs a second income stream, and what’s really driving the current buyer’s market. Plus: the forgotten days of Rolodex MLS listings and 15% mortgage rates.
Whether you are thinking about diving into real estate, or just wondering why every third house on your street has a "For Sale" sign, we hope this episode will help give you some new insights.
Thanks for listening to Unqualified Advice. If you're looking for a Houston-area agent — or just want to learn more about Lindsay — visit HowardHomeRealty.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Unqualified Advice, the show where we try to make sense of business, investing,and life with just enough experience to get ourselves in trouble.
I'm Sean and he's Dan.
We both started in different careers, Dan in IT, climbing the ranks to Chief TechnologyOfficer in New York, and me in manufacturing, managing production quality across three
countries.
(00:21):
At some point, we both decided we didn't know enough.
So we went back to school for our MBAs.
Me at Columbia Business School and Sean at the University of Houston, downtown.
And after all that, we figured the best way to share what we've learned and what we'restill figuring out is to start a podcast.
So if you like deep dives into decision-making, business strategy, and the occasionalhalf-baked investing theory,
(00:45):
Or just enjoy listening to two guys challenge each other's ideas and occasionally admitwhen we're wrong?
You're in the right place.
Welcome to Unqualified Advice.
Hello, Dan.
Hi Sean, how are you?
I'm doing well.
And hello everybody out there in audience land and viewing.
As you, if you're viewing, you notice we have a third person on with us today.
(01:06):
Today we have Lindsay Howard, who is in the real estate industry, to put it lightly.
And she's here today to let us ask her some questions about what entrepreneurial realestate is like, how she got into it and the like.
Lindsay before we get started is there anything you'd like to just introduce yourself aslike What was your current life in real estate life?
Hi, Lindsay.
(01:26):
Well, I'm a broker, just became a broker in February.
Was an agent working as mostly just admin and transactional coordination before that.
Got my broker's license so that I could take over the business and make it mine.
My mother has been
I'm kind of the star of the company up to this point.
(01:48):
I think it's, yeah, it is, it is a family business.
Actually, so my stepfather was the broker.
He's still technically the broker of our brokerage.
I guess you could call me an associate broker at this point, because I still work under, Idon't work under my broker, because I am a broker, which.
as a broker, you don't have to work under anybody.
(02:12):
Is there, sounds like there's almost like an apprenticeship sort of like stacking ofcredentials or like a path, like a ladder that you've got to climb to get to where you've
got.
Yes and no, it just depends.
I mean, you can become an individual brokerage on your own.
You don't have to work under a company.
So technically, I'm an actually individual broker.
(02:33):
I don't technically work under anyone.
I don't technically own Howard Home Realty, which is our company, quite yet.
it's my goal in the next month or so to actually take over Howard Home Realty and justmake it my own.
So I'll turn it into an LLC and just take it on as my own.
That's somewhat of a daunting legal task that you're undertaking there.
(02:56):
What have you had to learn through that process?
Uh, that's going to cost money.
And I just paid taxes.
So I've to make a couple more deals before I can actually take on the DBA into an LLC.
Very cool.
Well, mean, that's a good congratulations on that, Lindsay.
That's a big undertaking.
(03:17):
And it's awesome that you're basically keeping a family business in the family as well.
I think certain parts of our relationship will appreciate that.
m
Cathy is the one that actually keeps us in business.
if it weren't for me, guess she and I, we do it 50-50, but she's the one that does all thesales.
I do everything else in the back end.
(03:37):
And I'm training another agent.
So yeah, so you were an agent prior to just recently earning your broker's license.
So I guess delineate for us again.
I think we talked a little about this off-air maybe, like what is the how does an agentrelate with the broker?
does that structure work?
So in order to be a broker, you have to be an agent for at least five years.
(03:59):
And you have to have a certain amount of education and you have to have a certain amountof experience points, which is essentially experience.
that are those Texas, but is that a state law system?
So, okay, so Texas would be one slightly probably site.
I'm sure similar in different jurisdictions, but.
would be very similar in California and Florida.
The laws in California and Florida are virtually the same.
(04:20):
There are slight differences, but not much.
So if I wanted to actually get my brokerage license in California or Florida, it wouldn'ttake much time at all for me to do so.
And I could carry a brokerage license in both states.
Yeah, but, and so if you're becoming an agent, obviously you just get your real estatelicense by doing, I think it's,
(04:42):
180 hours, I think is what it is, of real estate school and mandatory classes and there'selective classes.
And then you work for the first two years, you actually work as an apprentice, it's calledSAE.
And you work underneath a broker, you hang your license underneath a broker.
and the broker essentially is your mentor or your trainer and they have to actually be apart of each of your first few sales.
(05:11):
then you have to take additional classes within those two years, these apprenticeshipclasses, again called SAE.
After two years of being an agent, you actually...
you become a full on agent.
You are no longer an apprentice and you work on your own essentially, but still have tohold your license under a broker.
(05:34):
Now a broker can take a percentage of your commissions.
They can charge flat fees.
They can do it for free if they want, but they're not gonna make any money doing that.
One of the reasons why Cathy and I broke off from being under a brokerage and starting ourown was because Lee
He had a broker's license.
He just wasn't using it.
(05:54):
Cathy was working under Keller Williams.
And I started working with her as her assistant at that point.
And that was in 2017.
And so in 2017, 18 and 19, we worked under Keller Williams and then another brokerage.
And I was doing everything that the transaction coordinators were doing anyway.
(06:18):
and we were paying the broker a good portion of our income every month.
And we just didn't think it was necessary.
Nobody was helping us do anything other than double checking our work that had alreadybeen double, triple checked.
So we said, let's do it ourselves.
So in January 1, 2020, we started Howard Home Realty underneath Lee, under his license,under his broker's license.
(06:42):
What a time to start.
Yeah, right?
uh
doing well in 2019, but then it was probably February, March, those interest rates justplummeted.
yeah, so it was a great time to start our business and not have to pay anyone.
And so I haven't had to pay anybody a commission ever since, which has been great.
(07:02):
Because my stepfather is, he's aging.
He's not really, he doesn't really do any of the work.
He just happens to hold the license.
And it was up to me to really get to really, you know, learn all the rules and theregulations and keep us on track because Lee wasn't really much help, unfortunately.
(07:27):
mean, he's great.
Great, but he's just not doing any real estate.
So at that point, was just time.
I was already doing the work and trying to just make sure that everything was donecorrectly.
So not this past September, the September before I signed up for broker school.
(07:50):
So, was it 2017 when you first became an agent as well?
I actually got my license in 2010 and right before I met you, was in real estate for abouta year and I absolutely hated it.
I had been working in advertising before that and when the economy crashed, I ended uplosing my job and couldn't find work in advertising.
(08:16):
Nobody was paying for advertising anymore.
yeah, all that dried up real quick.
was like, oh my God, what am going to do?
My mother had been in real estate, but at that point she was actually, she had started herown business doing, she had built an RV park on Lake Conroe and was busy with that.
But she was like, well, why don't you get into real estate?
(08:36):
And I was like, And so she's like, I'll help you out.
And so I was like, I'll give it a try.
Why not?
So I got into real estate and was working for this really hoity-toity company.
And I won't say the name of it now, but.
I was, it was, it was, cause they're still around.
but I hated it.
I absolutely hated it.
And I gave it a year.
I sold one house and I rented one house.
And, it was honestly, it was a bad time to get into real estate because nobody was buyingand selling at that point.
(09:00):
not much better than advertising at that time, but this is after...
Yeah.
eh
But yeah, I was putting another notch in my belt loop as far as career choices.
So I had had many careers before that.
and that's when after after a year, I was I was talking with your wife and there was a newbar opening up.
(09:26):
I'm like, I've got to do something.
I was a single mom and I needed money bad.
And so got into the bar business.
And again, because I actually went to school for hotel restaurant management, was in theservice industry for a long time before I got into advertising.
And so it was then that your wife introduced me to a bar owner and she was opening up abar and they gave me a shot and gave me a couple of nights a week and then still wasn't
(09:56):
enough money.
So I found another bar up the street and lots of people, people were still drinking.
So.
Mm-hmm.
I was able to make a living for a few more years up until 2017 and I was like, I'm done.
Can't do that.
Yeah.
So was there anything that changed from your first go around to the second go around thatmade it more palatable?
Yeah, 100%.
Two completely different career paths in real estate.
(10:20):
So the first time I did it, I wasn't working with my mother.
I was working for this hoity-toity company and it was a big brokerage.
There were probably four or 500 agents all in one office, I was required to do all theseclasses.
I was required to be at the office a certain amount of time, or for a certain amount oftime.
(10:44):
Then this go, and again, there was no business coming in.
I would have to sit there and take phone calls, you know, and I would have to cold callpeople and it's just not me.
And I just, I really don't like sales.
I just didn't like doing sales at all.
I wasn't comfortable doing it.
And doing cold calls was just not my thing.
(11:04):
So.
When I got back into it, Cathy, she was asking me if I would help her as her assistant,where she was the one doing all the sales and I was just getting in doing all of the
paperwork for her, setting up surveys and appraisals and talking to other agents, not somuch.
bolts of the real estate agent job itself of the...
(11:27):
Okay.
Yeah.
So, and as time went on, I actually started doing a little bit more as far as like theback end negotiations after, like the second hand negotiations after that, after the
contract's been executed.
what do call it?
When they do inspections, and then they obviously they want more, they want things to bedone.
(11:48):
fixed or replaced or what have you.
I was able to do the negotiations there too.
So I wasn't doing the initial sale, but I was doing the backend sales of it.
feel like I saw a big burst of new realtors on the scene in like 2020 to 2022.
Like every time I was on LinkedIn, it's like a friend of mine that used to be doingsomething else is now a real estate agent.
Is that a misconception or is that real?
(12:09):
No, that's not, that's not a misconception, but I'm going to tell you something.
So that's funny because the house, not next door to me, but on the other side, that's arealtor.
Two houses from her is a realtor.
Two houses on the, across the street, they're realtors.
Two houses that way, they're realtors.
of the American economy is just people buying and selling houses to each other and like,you know, slowly trading up?
(12:31):
Here's the thing with the new laws under NAR, having to do all, there's more work that'sinvolved.
And I think a lot of these agents, well, yeah, I actually caught an agent showing propertyillegally this last week, called them out on it because they didn't have a buyer's rep and
they were showing one of our listings.
(12:53):
And their clients, well, I can't even say call them, their customer ended up calling usasking if we would represent them because their agent wasn't doing any work.
And they wanted to move on this quickly.
They didn't want anything to happen to it.
They wanted this property.
And we're like, well, we can't negate your buyer's rep with your other agent.
(13:16):
We can get sued by talking to you.
And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, we didn't sign anything.
And we're like, OK, come on.
So but here's the thing.
So with the new laws that went into effect in September with that class action suit on thewhole commission thing,
(13:38):
It's NAR is the National Association of Realtors.
Yeah.
And NAR was sued along with TAR, which is the Texas Association of Realtors.
Lots of other states were involved in this class action suit as well.
And then it boils down to the cities as well.
HAR was also involved in this class action suit.
So Houston was hit hard.
(14:00):
It was hit in every direction.
So.
we have to be really, really careful who we're talking to, when we're talking to them, andif we can even talk to them.
So I think a lot of realtors were kind of put off by that.
And I think that even though they're still realtors, they still have their license, Ithink there's a lot of realtors that have kind of backed off.
I think for anyone who basically like in terms of real estate is only paying attention tothe headlines, uh, might understand, like might know that like there were some fee changes
(14:31):
or like where fees go.
But other than that, the ramifications of, of all of this is not, I, I, you know, partlyasking for myself, like, don't think it's a hundred percent clear.
Like, so when you say there are people we can and can't talk to now because of this, like,could you walk us through like a little bit of that?
absolutely.
with the settlement, it requires every agent when they're representing or they're going tobe showing, let's just say they even want to show a property that says somebody else's
(15:02):
listing.
They have to have a buyer's rep.
And in order for, or in this buyer's rep, it outlines that the seller is not
responsible for paying the buyer's agent's commission.
That it is negotiable, but they are not responsible.
(15:23):
Therefore, if the buyer's agent wants to get paid, they have to negotiate with the buyerwhether they're going to be willing to pay any portion or all of their commission and how
much that commission is going to be.
So in most cases, you'll see
I can't even say most cases.
(15:44):
So what you used to see was most buyers reps or buyers agents wanted the seller to paythem 3 % commission for a total supposedly of 6 % for both sides.
In my case is completely different because we work with a very niche clientele.
(16:06):
Mm-hmm.
which we can get to in a bit.
So a buyer's rep has to have that document signed by the buyers that they've agreed to acertain percentage if the sellers will not pay a commission.
if they have negotiated, say for instance, let's hypothetically say I'm working with abuyer.
(16:30):
And they say, we will only pay 2 % of your commission or 2 % of the sale towards yourcommission.
If I go and I sell a listing that doesn't belong to me and the seller agrees to pay thecommission, then they only have to pay 2%.
They don't have to pay 3%.
(16:51):
Well, the buyer's agent isn't even going to get 3 % because they have only negotiated a2%.
heard the 2%.
So in this situation, basically, the buyer has more rules around the dedicated rep thatthey're using.
Whereas before, it was more or less assumed they were going to get a 50-50 cut of the 6%.
Now, the total 6 % is more negotiable, and the buyer has to basically obtain specificrepresentation in that agreement with their agent beforehand.
(17:19):
OK.
Now, if the buyer is only agreeing to 2 % of the total sale, then the seller, even if theseller is offering 3%, that buyer's agent is only going to get 2 % because that's what
they've negotiated with their buyer.
But you can amend it and if the seller is paying 3%,
(17:45):
just go and amend it, it'll be fine.
It's just, there's so much, there's so many pieces of paperwork that have to be done nowto get your commission.
You have to negotiate with when you're doing a listing.
Now we have to, because the majority of our work is listings and we work with new homebuilders.
That's our, so the majority of our.
(18:07):
that's a very interesting niche we'd love to know more about.
So yes.
Yeah, I will tell you all about it.
So with our with our clientele, we've been working with one one specific builder forCathy's been working with him since like 2010.
And, you know, when she was on and off doing real estate, and so she took on this builderand has given him because not only do we help him buy the lots that he's
(18:36):
going to be building on, we get a really good deal on if we bring in the buyers as well.
So we can do intermediary on with the buyers and we're doing good, which is actuallyhonestly the easiest way for us to do real estate because we're already working with the
buyers regardless.
We just end up having to pay a buyer's agent.
(18:59):
we offer, my builders offer 3%.
I mean, it's just, there is just.
We don't want to change anything.
It's harder for us to sell if the seller isn't offering a commission.
It just is.
So anytime we take on a new listing, whether it's with a resale or a new home, we alwaysencourage our sellers to continue doing 3 % commission to the buyer's agent.
(19:23):
Yeah.
I think especially as the seller that makes a lot of sense because you're, man, if I'm theseller, I want that transaction to go right.
I want you to be representing me, getting the most value I can out of it, getting the mostvalue out of the listing.
I think that the seller's agent has for me a lot of work that absolutely needs to be done.
So yeah, that makes sense.
Whereas the buyer agent, like, I might find something and like, yeah, sure, you're therehelping me.
(19:47):
But like I found it myself on Haar or on Zillow or something and you're there coordinatingand facilitating, sure.
as long as the lending documents are right, I guess I'm good.
Yeah, we actually like cash buyers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah, who doesn't?
uh Who doesn't?
(20:07):
No, I was just gonna ask if you felt that, so the laws, the rules have changed lastSeptember.
How do you feel those have shifted the balance for buyers versus sellers?
Were sellers versus buyers more advantaged?
Is the average consumer out there going to buy a single family home?
How has it impacted them?
I think it has.
I don't think it has.
(20:27):
Because I don't see much of a change.
So here's a couple of the changes that I have seen.
Now, because OK, we cannot advertise any commission base online or on HARP or on what wecall.
Well, we don't advertise on Zillow.
Zillow is an aggregate that actually takes our listings directly from our MLS.
(20:49):
And they don't even update it.
I hate Zillow.
I will say that loud and clear.
I hate Zillow.
They do not.
When people call me and say, we saw something on Zillow and it doesn't, but I'm seeingsomething else on MLS.
I'm like, because they stole our, or they took our listing and they haven't updated it.
So if we lower the price, Zillow isn't lowering the price.
(21:12):
It still shows a higher amount.
After a certain amount of time, it will finally, it'll change.
So we cannot advertise any commission at all.
We can't even say the word commission on the MLS anymore.
now, so one of the things that I've seen now, and this is one of the things I actuallyreally, it of makes me, it just grosses me out.
(21:35):
When agents call me and say, are you offering commission?
First of all,
When me if I happen to because my buyer my builders they are buyers as well So when wefind when we find lots that he's like I want to put an offer on this lot I don't call the
agent ask them if they're offering commission.
(21:55):
I just put it in there I put it in the contract give me my commission, you know, this is Iwant this is part of the offer There's a reason to call this Yeah, there's no reason for
me to call this agent say are you offering 3 %?
No, the offer is contingent with the commission included.
Yeah, absolutely, that makes sense.
There's no reason to call the agent and ask.
(22:17):
Everybody had to take classes on these new laws.
And a lot of the teachers that were teaching these courses were saying that we needed tocall the agents and ask.
Because I go through contracts.
I write contracts, I don't know, three, four, five, sometimes 10 times a week.
And if I were to call all these agents and find out and ask them if they're offeringcommission, I just feel like an asshole.
(22:42):
know?
mean, it's just gross.
sounds like it's salesy to me, you know?
Are you offering commission?
I'll just put it in the contract.
If you're not, fine.
My builder will pay me my 3%.
I've got a buyer's rep with him that says he'll pay the 3%.
Very cool.
Well, it's fascinating to all that, know, hullabaloo to improve things for the quoteunquote consumer and really no end difference to the consumer.
(23:12):
I'm sure, I'm sure like on aggregate, probably commissions have come down a percent orsomething, or, know, like a hundred basis points, but, but maybe.
have come across some sellers that are like, no, we're only offering 1.5%.
And they're like, I don't care.
It's a lot.
It's $50,000 lot.
I'm not making much money on it anyway.
(23:33):
I'm going to make more money on the sale of it with the house on it.
So let's just do it.
I don't care.
Yeah, I don't care.
Dude, it's something, give me another question, I've lost it.
Oh, MLS, I keep hearing that, what does that stand for?
Multiple Listing System.
(23:54):
I've always just read through that acronym and never really thought what it means.
So interesting question about MLS though I can give you.
Well not question, I'll just tell you.
MLS has always been very territorial.
So HAR has their own MLS.
San Antonio has their own MLS.
(24:15):
Austin has one, Dallas has one.
College Station has their own MLS.
They're all coming together now and they're all going to be one in Texas and it's justgoing to be a singular Texas MLS, which is going to be great.
Because if people are buying, if people are in San Antonio and they're relocating toHouston, now they get to see all the listings all in one place.
(24:36):
I don't, I don't have to, I don't have to try to, sorry, sorry.
I'm sorry, I was cutting you off.
I'm sorry.
But that would have been the value of an aggregator like Zillow though, being able to comeand say, I can do one search from, I don't have to go to multiple different websites.
I never really thought about their value prop.
So there are others though, there's hard, I mean, there's, there's homes.com.
(24:57):
They're great.
Realtor.com.
They're great.
You know, and, and yeah, Zillow is just the worst.
And they, they actually, they, what, and what they do, they put other people, so you canbe an ad, you can advertise on Zillow.
And what they do is they take other people's listings and put you on there.
And so it looks like you're actually the agent on that listing.
(25:18):
So they're calling the agent that's on what they're looking at, the address that they'relooking at, and they think that's the listing agent.
So they think they're calling that agent.
Well, that agent has paid Zillow to be on that page.
And it's gross to me.
I don't like it.
I don't like it at all.
I this with the interception business kind of interesting.
(25:40):
So around the concept around the idea of, guess, you know, being an agent for a builder,that has to be a much less stressful method than going out there and trying to sell
independent homes because you have a constant supply, right?
I do have constant supply, yes.
uh I wouldn't say it's any easier because we actually see it through from start to finish.
(26:07):
So again, we help the builders find the land or they find the land and then we just helpthem buy it.
And then we immediately put it on the MLS and we're looking for buyers even when there'sno,
property yet.
Yeah, you just have an architectural drawing essentially in a 3D rendering.
We have a floor plan for it.
Permits are already in place when we list it.
(26:28):
I guess we could list it without permits, but I don't think that would be right.
But permits are already in place whenever we have it listed.
And they're usually typically about to break ground, but not necessarily, not always.
We have some builders that are sitting on a bunch of land at the moment, and they're notbuilding until they get a buyer.
Interesting.
How has that market been?
So good question.
(26:50):
I would say it had been really slow from I'd say about January until about two, threeweeks ago.
And I've seen a significant uptick in the last few weeks.
Tax season is over.
um Interest rates are still fluctuating.
(27:10):
Sorry.
them going up, maybe.
Yeah, interest rates are supposed to be going up again.
But then there's people that say they're going to go down.
You never know.
It's a day to day thing.
But I think a big part of it was that tax season and also I hate to be political, but Ithink the political climate was kind of affecting it and stock markets and all of
(27:31):
was this first quarter slower than last first quarter, like year on year comparatively?
uh Okay.
say I'd say not by a lot.
But this this year, yeah, it was was was a bit a bit slower this year.
You know, I was I went to go visit my dad in Florida.
And he was scared.
He's like, I've to get all my money out of the stock market.
(27:51):
I'm going to move to Portugal or Spain or something.
Sorry about my cat.
You
it.
He's afraid that he's going to lose all his money in the stock market and end up on thestreets.
I'm like, oh, okay, well, bye.
I'll visit you in Europe.
But I think a lot of people feel that way.
They're worried that their money is not going be around.
They're not going to have their social security, Medicaid, Medicare.
(28:14):
it in real estate, you know, that's what I say.
No.
Interesting.
My impression has been that the market's been being kind of sluggish.
that's interesting.
I'm glad to hear you kind of confirm that in terms of home sales.
uh
The last few weeks though, I've absolutely seen an uptick, a significant uptick in that wewere sitting on a lot of inventory, not getting any phone calls.
(28:35):
Nobody was showing.
Mm-hmm.
you know, Cathy was really concerned and she's like, we've got to figure out somemarketing.
We've got to get these houses sold.
And, you know, we're trying to get creative on our advertising and using social media andemail, you know, email lists and.
Nothing was really working.
you know, honestly, this time of year, though, right at tax season, I have noticed everyyear since I've been with Cathy, I've noticed this time of year, it's always a struggle.
(29:05):
I too am struggling during tax season because I don't have, I don't use a CPA, I do my owntaxes.
And I always end up waiting and just do it all at one time instead of.
quarterly, which I really shouldn't do a quarterly.
And I think that's actually about to change.
That's going to change once I get Howard Home Realty LLC.
I was gonna say, think you need to get into shape if you're taking on that extra.
(29:29):
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
So, you know, it's I have yeah, this type of year, it's always it's always been and thenthere's always always the the change in the politics play a big factor in real estate too.
Years that have a an election, people are always like, we're gonna wait and see who wins,you know, who's going to be our next president, we're gonna wait.
So that affects that affects real estate in a big way.
(29:53):
And yeah, I saw at this time.
Are there buyers out there that are wanting to sell that aren't able to find buyers ormore than anything?
Yeah.
It's absolutely a buyer's market at the moment.
Don't let anybody else tell you anything different because it is absolutely a buyer'smarket.
When interest rates are high, it's typically a buyer's market.
(30:14):
When interest rates are low, people are wanting to buy.
So inventory is snatched up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
times that actually works.
That's weird to think about, but yeah, I suppose.
Well, but at the same time, the cost of the mortgage is so much higher at a 6 % versus 3 %interest rate.
(30:36):
If you...
Yeah.
you know what?
When people are talking about a 6 % interest rate, think about, you know, in the mid 90s,6 % was actually a really good interest rate.
You know, it wasn't until 2020 when interest rates got below 3 % that people startedthinking that 6 % was high.
(30:57):
It's not, it's really not.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think we're ever going to see it that low again.
Ever.
Yeah, Yeah, the interest rates have been steadily.
Yes, interest rates have been steadily on the decline since like what early 80s, I think.
So it was just a long slowed downhill trend that we finally had to hit bottom.
(31:18):
Yeah.
Well, know, Cathy would tell me she started real estate in the eighties and she was likeback in the eighties.
it was tough.
Not only did we not have computers, she was talking about the MLS machine that they wouldget the little book or each page would come out and you'd have to sort of, but you'd have
to punch holes in the papers and put them in a book.
(31:38):
those were your listings for the month.
Wow.
Yeah, and you have to go through there and read each page and then take a Xerox copy of itand then make appointments by calling the other agency.
Anyway, everything's great now that we have computer, we just do everything online.
Back in the 80s, though, interest rates were like 12, 15 percent.
(32:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, 6%, that's nothing.
This is a good perspective to keep, I think.
And even though, yeah, it might feel like a sting versus 2020 or 2021, if you're lookingfor a home, you're probably still a pretty good time to be buying in terms of those rates.
I suspect a lot of some more volatility in those to continue for the next 48 months, giveor take.
(32:27):
there right now that you can probably find something that you really, want and get it at apretty good deal.
You can probably negotiate that price down.
That's good sage advice, I think, for everybody out there listening, thinking about buyinga home and there's an agent in the Houston area we have one we can refer them to.
So there are other options, there's other options of getting your interest rate down too.
(32:50):
know, we'll buy up.
of with with the buyers, are they not the buyers, the builders that you work with?
Are they baking that into how they're doing it and baking incentives to basically for thebuilder contracts to able to offer a lower rate?
Yeah, we'll talk about, and we do it not necessarily just for the buyers, but for thebuyer's agents as well.
(33:12):
So we'll offer a bonus to the agent, like a $1,000 bonus if they bring in their buyers.
We offer, the builder will sometimes, I'm not saying all of my properties, but we workwith several different builders.
So we've had builders that will buy down points.
Mm-hmm.
I think it's a 321 or two, yeah, 321.
(33:32):
So the first year, it knocks it down, I think it's two points and then it goes down to onepoint the next year and then goes back to regular.
It would be a regular interest rate after the third year.
So.
so I didn't realize they could tier the points in like that.
Yeah.
And so if you got a higher credit score, your interest rate is obviously going be a littlebit higher.
(33:56):
And if you find a builder or a seller that's willing to help buy down, but you got to becareful with that.
Because your interest rate is going to go back up each year.
And you want to make sure that you're
It's a bet on what happens three years from now.
Yeah, well, and it's also you've got to take care of your credit, you make sure youmaintain your credit, you've got a good credit score and then potentially try to
(34:22):
refinance.
Yeah, potentially.
Yeah.
And then from the builder's perspective, they tell me if I'm off base here, I think itwould be, if I were a builder, I'd be perhaps after lowering my price by whatever.
And then the buyer says, okay, well I'll transact today if you bring it down this muchmore.
And you're like, I don't want to bring it down anymore, but I'll do a rate buy down foryou.
(34:47):
How about that?
And it saves the buyer a whole bunch of money.
If they're
If they think they'll be in the home for a long time specifically, and then it keeps theasset price, the actual transaction price higher.
So yeah, I have not seen much of that.
um Actually, can honestly say I've never seen that before.
I've actually never had a rate buy down go through because it is risky.
(35:09):
Well, again, because it's a 3-2-1.
So the first year, they're buying it down by two points.
And then the next year, it gets raised a point.
Your interest rate's going to go back up.
That's what Toll Brothers is doing near me right now.
Yeah.
It's like a three, two, one.
And then the house that I bought is 30 or fixed.
(35:30):
They bought it down like two points.
It's pretty good deal.
No, it will not.
It's 30 fixed.
With the 321
I don't, that's what I'm saying.
I don't have a three, two, one.
I have a 30 year fix.
Yeah.
Cause your interest rates gonna be, I mean, you're going to have a fixed interest rate.
doesn't, but your, but with the buy down, kind of negates the, the fixed rate for threeyears.
(35:51):
You know, the first two, the first, your rate is the rate.
The buyer is just buying down those points.
So, for the, for three, for, for the, essentially for two years.
So it's the three, the, the two points for the first year, one point for the second year,and then it goes back to normal on the third.
So the rate doesn't really, the rate's not changing, it's what the buyer has paid intoyour loan.
(36:14):
So it reflects on you, on your bank account, because the holder has paid into it.
And I can see why that practice is, you know, good for certain buyers and also a risk forcertain buyers ah Yeah, makes sense So, you know, if it's a little bit of a sluggish about
the buyers market if you're out there wanting to you know Switch careers right now and getinto real estate Lindsey.
(36:38):
Is it a good time?
Is it a bad time?
What kind of stage advice you have for people out there?
Yeah
mean, yeah, come on, I'll be your broker.
I'm looking for new agents.
that's ultimately my goal with taking over Howard Home Realty is to bring on new agentsand train them to be great agents.
(37:00):
so I mean, I think it's just it's a personal preference.
I mean, if you're good at sales, then yeah, it's a good time.
There are a lot of areas that are inundated with agents.
would say Houston is absolutely one of them.
uh I don't work in Houston.
I live in Houston, but I don't work in Houston.
All of our clientele is Huntsville and North.
(37:20):
We are working in more rural areas.
The neighborhoods that we're building in are typically like golf course communities orlakeside communities.
you know, nicer big homes, know, acreage communities.
So there's not as much inundation over there as far as real estate is concerned.
(37:42):
And then Cathy has been in the business for so long that she's pretty well known andpeople just call her.
They know her.
They know who Cathy is.
They're like, let's call Cathy.
So it's a good time to get in if you have a good broker you're willing to go work withthat has a good foothold.
uh Yeah.
(38:02):
Okay.
But also that some working for some of those big time brokers that you made the first kindof work out, come work out for, it's a tough road to hoe if that's your chosen path then,
I guess.
I know people that are getting into real estate.
I have a friend that just got into it.
She got her license in September and she's working for, you know, I would say a mid-sizedcorporation And she's happy.
(38:25):
She's got a mentor there and
You know, she goes to all the classes that they require.
She's got something called Mentor Monday that she goes and talks with her mentor, who'snot actually a broker or mentor is actually another agent, but a seasoned agent.
so she's happy, she seems to be happy.
think she's got her first listing and she does a lot of open houses and, you know, I mean,that's what agents, new agents are gonna start out.
(38:51):
They're gonna be doing a lot of open houses and they're gonna, you know, I recommend a lotof networking and, you know, passing out the business card.
Yep.
Yeah, honestly, think meeting the right person at the right time is a critical portion ofthat game.
oh
groundwork that might not pay off for four years, right?
Yeah, that's true.
(39:12):
Yeah, you can expect the first year as a new agent, you're not making money.
If you're getting into real estate, I would either have a second job or a partner that isable to handle all the bills.
Yeah.
And this kind of like, this is why being an agent in my mind is like sort of, I don't wantto, I don't know.
(39:32):
I don't want to use the word small and like a derogatory way, but it's like the smallentrepreneurial start, right?
Because even if you're working under a big broker or like you've got this big, you know,nationwide known shingle on your front door, you know, on your desk or whatever, it's
still just you running a sales process, laying the groundwork and, killing what you eat.
(39:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and you also have to that broker.
have to get your, you're typically going to be giving them as part of agent, you're goingto be giving them 50 % of your commission.
Yeah, you know, if you start any entrepreneurial and like, unless you're selling, youknow, you're going to be paying someone, right?
You've either got cogs or you've got rent or both.
You know, it's like getting started is always more money out than money in.
(40:17):
And that's sort of like, I don't know, just how it starts for almost, almost everyone.
If you're not just, I don't know, super lucky.
That's true, unless you just have a nest egg that you get to go and well even then you'restarting slow, but I guess you don't care about the revenue coming in.
You're still starting.
It's not like your revenue is gonna be quick to give you a nest egg.
It's just you can afford to let it grow slow.
(40:38):
Yes.
I was actually really fortunate because when I got it when I started up again in 2017, Iwas asked to come to work and I you know, she was already she was swamped busy and really
needed help.
And so I started making money right away.
I was fortunate.
But not everybody's gonna have that.
(40:59):
Yeah.
I was very fortunate.
Yeah.
Okay, well, Lindsay, thank you for taking some time to come on and talk with us.
think we're at a good length here for our introduction to Lindsay Howard.
And Howard, I'm sorry, would you like to offer a plug to any websites or anything whereyou want people to find you before I just shoo you away?
(41:21):
No?
You just look up Lindsay Howard.
My name is Feldale, I-N-D-S-A-Y.
Okay, well if you think it's enough to let me know, you put it in the show notes.
Honestly, don't.
My website is howardhomereality.com.
Okay, well see that's all we needed.
That'll make it into the transcript now and then it's there for the LLMs to find and sendpeople your way.
(41:42):
Awesome.
Well, I'm going to be posting this everywhere anyway, uh
tuning into our first possibly interview episode to be released on Unqualified Advice.
Yeah.
where's John?
And next time, yeah, we'll have to do it again with John to get him his take on the legalaspect because he does have a really interesting side of legal real estate.
(42:09):
That's a very interesting niche.
All right.
Well, thanks all.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome to Unqualified Advice, the show where we try to make sense of business, investing,and life with just enough experience to get ourselves in trouble.
I'm Sean and he's Dan.
We both started in different careers, Dan in IT, climbing the ranks to Chief TechnologyOfficer in New York, and me in manufacturing, managing production quality across three
countries.
(00:21):
At some point, we both decided we didn't know enough.
So we went back to school for our MBAs.
Me at Columbia Business School and Sean at the University of Houston, downtown.
And after all that, we figured the best way to share what we've learned and what we'restill figuring out is to start a podcast.
So if you like deep dives into decision-making, business strategy, and the occasionalhalf-baked investing theory,
(00:45):
Or just enjoy listening to two guys challenge each other's ideas and occasionally admitwhen we're wrong?
You're in the right place.
Welcome to Unqualified Advice.
Hello, Dan.
Hi Sean, how are you?
I'm doing well.
And hello everybody out there in audience land and viewing.
As you, if you're viewing, you notice we have a third person on with us today.
(01:06):
Today we have Lindsay Howard, who is in the real estate industry, to put it lightly.
And she's here today to let us ask her some questions about what entrepreneurial realestate is like, how she got into it and the like.
Lindsay before we get started is there anything you'd like to just introduce yourself aslike What was your current life in real estate life?
Hi, Lindsay.
(01:26):
Well, I'm a broker, just became a broker in February.
Was an agent working as mostly just admin and transactional coordination before that.
Got my broker's license so that I could take over the business and make it mine.
My mother has been
I'm kind of the star of the company up to this point.
(01:48):
I think it's, yeah, it is, it is a family business.
Actually, so my stepfather was the broker.
He's still technically the broker of our brokerage.
I guess you could call me an associate broker at this point, because I still work under, Idon't work under my broker, because I am a broker, which.
as a broker, you don't have to work under anybody.
(02:12):
Is there, sounds like there's almost like an apprenticeship sort of like stacking ofcredentials or like a path, like a ladder that you've got to climb to get to where you've
got.
Yes and no, it just depends.
I mean, you can become an individual brokerage on your own.
You don't have to work under a company.
So technically, I'm an actually individual broker.
(02:33):
I don't technically work under anyone.
I don't technically own Howard Home Realty, which is our company, quite yet.
it's my goal in the next month or so to actually take over Howard Home Realty and justmake it my own.
So I'll turn it into an LLC and just take it on as my own.
That's somewhat of a daunting legal task that you're undertaking there.
(02:56):
What have you had to learn through that process?
Uh, that's going to cost money.
And I just paid taxes.
So I've to make a couple more deals before I can actually take on the DBA into an LLC.
Very cool.
Well, mean, that's a good congratulations on that, Lindsay.
That's a big undertaking.
(03:17):
And it's awesome that you're basically keeping a family business in the family as well.
I think certain parts of our relationship will appreciate that.
m
Cathy is the one that actually keeps us in business.
if it weren't for me, guess she and I, we do it 50-50, but she's the one that does all thesales.
I do everything else in the back end.
(03:37):
And I'm training another agent.
So yeah, so you were an agent prior to just recently earning your broker's license.
So I guess delineate for us again.
I think we talked a little about this off-air maybe, like what is the how does an agentrelate with the broker?
does that structure work?
So in order to be a broker, you have to be an agent for at least five years.
(03:59):
And you have to have a certain amount of education and you have to have a certain amountof experience points, which is essentially experience.
that are those Texas, but is that a state law system?
So, okay, so Texas would be one slightly probably site.
I'm sure similar in different jurisdictions, but.
would be very similar in California and Florida.
The laws in California and Florida are virtually the same.
(04:20):
There are slight differences, but not much.
So if I wanted to actually get my brokerage license in California or Florida, it wouldn'ttake much time at all for me to do so.
And I could carry a brokerage license in both states.
Yeah, but, and so if you're becoming an agent, obviously you just get your real estatelicense by doing, I think it's,
(04:42):
180 hours, I think is what it is, of real estate school and mandatory classes and there'selective classes.
And then you work for the first two years, you actually work as an apprentice, it's calledSAE.
And you work underneath a broker, you hang your license underneath a broker.
and the broker essentially is your mentor or your trainer and they have to actually be apart of each of your first few sales.
(05:11):
then you have to take additional classes within those two years, these apprenticeshipclasses, again called SAE.
After two years of being an agent, you actually...
you become a full on agent.
You are no longer an apprentice and you work on your own essentially, but still have tohold your license under a broker.
(05:34):
Now a broker can take a percentage of your commissions.
They can charge flat fees.
They can do it for free if they want, but they're not gonna make any money doing that.
One of the reasons why Cathy and I broke off from being under a brokerage and starting ourown was because Lee
He had a broker's license.
He just wasn't using it.
(05:54):
Cathy was working under Keller Williams.
And I started working with her as her assistant at that point.
And that was in 2017.
And so in 2017, 18 and 19, we worked under Keller Williams and then another brokerage.
And I was doing everything that the transaction coordinators were doing anyway.
(06:18):
and we were paying the broker a good portion of our income every month.
And we just didn't think it was necessary.
Nobody was helping us do anything other than double checking our work that had alreadybeen double, triple checked.
So we said, let's do it ourselves.
So in January 1, 2020, we started Howard Home Realty underneath Lee, under his license,under his broker's license.
(06:42):
What a time to start.
Yeah, right?
uh
doing well in 2019, but then it was probably February, March, those interest rates justplummeted.
yeah, so it was a great time to start our business and not have to pay anyone.
And so I haven't had to pay anybody a commission ever since, which has been great.
(07:02):
Because my stepfather is, he's aging.
He's not really, he doesn't really do any of the work.
He just happens to hold the license.
And it was up to me to really get to really, you know, learn all the rules and theregulations and keep us on track because Lee wasn't really much help, unfortunately.
(07:27):
mean, he's great.
Great, but he's just not doing any real estate.
So at that point, was just time.
I was already doing the work and trying to just make sure that everything was donecorrectly.
So not this past September, the September before I signed up for broker school.
(07:50):
So, was it 2017 when you first became an agent as well?
I actually got my license in 2010 and right before I met you, was in real estate for abouta year and I absolutely hated it.
I had been working in advertising before that and when the economy crashed, I ended uplosing my job and couldn't find work in advertising.
(08:16):
Nobody was paying for advertising anymore.
yeah, all that dried up real quick.
was like, oh my God, what am going to do?
My mother had been in real estate, but at that point she was actually, she had started herown business doing, she had built an RV park on Lake Conroe and was busy with that.
But she was like, well, why don't you get into real estate?
(08:36):
And I was like, And so she's like, I'll help you out.
And so I was like, I'll give it a try.
Why not?
So I got into real estate and was working for this really hoity-toity company.
And I won't say the name of it now, but.
I was, it was, it was, cause they're still around.
but I hated it.
I absolutely hated it.
And I gave it a year.
I sold one house and I rented one house.
And, it was honestly, it was a bad time to get into real estate because nobody was buyingand selling at that point.
(09:00):
not much better than advertising at that time, but this is after...
Yeah.
eh
But yeah, I was putting another notch in my belt loop as far as career choices.
So I had had many careers before that.
and that's when after after a year, I was I was talking with your wife and there was a newbar opening up.
(09:26):
I'm like, I've got to do something.
I was a single mom and I needed money bad.
And so got into the bar business.
And again, because I actually went to school for hotel restaurant management, was in theservice industry for a long time before I got into advertising.
And so it was then that your wife introduced me to a bar owner and she was opening up abar and they gave me a shot and gave me a couple of nights a week and then still wasn't
(09:56):
enough money.
So I found another bar up the street and lots of people, people were still drinking.
So.
Mm-hmm.
I was able to make a living for a few more years up until 2017 and I was like, I'm done.
Can't do that.
Yeah.
So was there anything that changed from your first go around to the second go around thatmade it more palatable?
Yeah, 100%.
Two completely different career paths in real estate.
(10:20):
So the first time I did it, I wasn't working with my mother.
I was working for this hoity-toity company and it was a big brokerage.
There were probably four or 500 agents all in one office, I was required to do all theseclasses.
I was required to be at the office a certain amount of time, or for a certain amount oftime.
(10:44):
Then this go, and again, there was no business coming in.
I would have to sit there and take phone calls, you know, and I would have to cold callpeople and it's just not me.
And I just, I really don't like sales.
I just didn't like doing sales at all.
I wasn't comfortable doing it.
And doing cold calls was just not my thing.
(11:04):
So.
When I got back into it, Cathy, she was asking me if I would help her as her assistant,where she was the one doing all the sales and I was just getting in doing all of the
paperwork for her, setting up surveys and appraisals and talking to other agents, not somuch.
bolts of the real estate agent job itself of the...
(11:27):
Okay.
Yeah.
So, and as time went on, I actually started doing a little bit more as far as like theback end negotiations after, like the second hand negotiations after that, after the
contract's been executed.
what do call it?
When they do inspections, and then they obviously they want more, they want things to bedone.
(11:48):
fixed or replaced or what have you.
I was able to do the negotiations there too.
So I wasn't doing the initial sale, but I was doing the backend sales of it.
feel like I saw a big burst of new realtors on the scene in like 2020 to 2022.
Like every time I was on LinkedIn, it's like a friend of mine that used to be doingsomething else is now a real estate agent.
Is that a misconception or is that real?
(12:09):
No, that's not, that's not a misconception, but I'm going to tell you something.
So that's funny because the house, not next door to me, but on the other side, that's arealtor.
Two houses from her is a realtor.
Two houses on the, across the street, they're realtors.
Two houses that way, they're realtors.
of the American economy is just people buying and selling houses to each other and like,you know, slowly trading up?
(12:31):
Here's the thing with the new laws under NAR, having to do all, there's more work that'sinvolved.
And I think a lot of these agents, well, yeah, I actually caught an agent showing propertyillegally this last week, called them out on it because they didn't have a buyer's rep and
they were showing one of our listings.
(12:53):
And their clients, well, I can't even say call them, their customer ended up calling usasking if we would represent them because their agent wasn't doing any work.
And they wanted to move on this quickly.
They didn't want anything to happen to it.
They wanted this property.
And we're like, well, we can't negate your buyer's rep with your other agent.
(13:16):
We can get sued by talking to you.
And he's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, we didn't sign anything.
And we're like, OK, come on.
So but here's the thing.
So with the new laws that went into effect in September with that class action suit on thewhole commission thing,
(13:38):
It's NAR is the National Association of Realtors.
Yeah.
And NAR was sued along with TAR, which is the Texas Association of Realtors.
Lots of other states were involved in this class action suit as well.
And then it boils down to the cities as well.
HAR was also involved in this class action suit.
So Houston was hit hard.
(14:00):
It was hit in every direction.
So.
we have to be really, really careful who we're talking to, when we're talking to them, andif we can even talk to them.
So I think a lot of realtors were kind of put off by that.
And I think that even though they're still realtors, they still have their license, Ithink there's a lot of realtors that have kind of backed off.
I think for anyone who basically like in terms of real estate is only paying attention tothe headlines, uh, might understand, like might know that like there were some fee changes
(14:31):
or like where fees go.
But other than that, the ramifications of, of all of this is not, I, I, you know, partlyasking for myself, like, don't think it's a hundred percent clear.
Like, so when you say there are people we can and can't talk to now because of this, like,could you walk us through like a little bit of that?
absolutely.
with the settlement, it requires every agent when they're representing or they're going tobe showing, let's just say they even want to show a property that says somebody else's
(15:02):
listing.
They have to have a buyer's rep.
And in order for, or in this buyer's rep, it outlines that the seller is not
responsible for paying the buyer's agent's commission.
That it is negotiable, but they are not responsible.
(15:23):
Therefore, if the buyer's agent wants to get paid, they have to negotiate with the buyerwhether they're going to be willing to pay any portion or all of their commission and how
much that commission is going to be.
So in most cases, you'll see
I can't even say most cases.
(15:44):
So what you used to see was most buyers reps or buyers agents wanted the seller to paythem 3 % commission for a total supposedly of 6 % for both sides.
In my case is completely different because we work with a very niche clientele.
(16:06):
Mm-hmm.
which we can get to in a bit.
So a buyer's rep has to have that document signed by the buyers that they've agreed to acertain percentage if the sellers will not pay a commission.
if they have negotiated, say for instance, let's hypothetically say I'm working with abuyer.
(16:30):
And they say, we will only pay 2 % of your commission or 2 % of the sale towards yourcommission.
If I go and I sell a listing that doesn't belong to me and the seller agrees to pay thecommission, then they only have to pay 2%.
They don't have to pay 3%.
(16:51):
Well, the buyer's agent isn't even going to get 3 % because they have only negotiated a2%.
heard the 2%.
So in this situation, basically, the buyer has more rules around the dedicated rep thatthey're using.
Whereas before, it was more or less assumed they were going to get a 50-50 cut of the 6%.
Now, the total 6 % is more negotiable, and the buyer has to basically obtain specificrepresentation in that agreement with their agent beforehand.
(17:19):
OK.
Now, if the buyer is only agreeing to 2 % of the total sale, then the seller, even if theseller is offering 3%, that buyer's agent is only going to get 2 % because that's what
they've negotiated with their buyer.
But you can amend it and if the seller is paying 3%,
(17:45):
just go and amend it, it'll be fine.
It's just, there's so much, there's so many pieces of paperwork that have to be done nowto get your commission.
You have to negotiate with when you're doing a listing.
Now we have to, because the majority of our work is listings and we work with new homebuilders.
That's our, so the majority of our.
(18:07):
that's a very interesting niche we'd love to know more about.
So yes.
Yeah, I will tell you all about it.
So with our with our clientele, we've been working with one one specific builder forCathy's been working with him since like 2010.
And, you know, when she was on and off doing real estate, and so she took on this builderand has given him because not only do we help him buy the lots that he's
(18:36):
going to be building on, we get a really good deal on if we bring in the buyers as well.
So we can do intermediary on with the buyers and we're doing good, which is actuallyhonestly the easiest way for us to do real estate because we're already working with the
buyers regardless.
We just end up having to pay a buyer's agent.
(18:59):
we offer, my builders offer 3%.
I mean, it's just, there is just.
We don't want to change anything.
It's harder for us to sell if the seller isn't offering a commission.
It just is.
So anytime we take on a new listing, whether it's with a resale or a new home, we alwaysencourage our sellers to continue doing 3 % commission to the buyer's agent.
(19:23):
Yeah.
I think especially as the seller that makes a lot of sense because you're, man, if I'm theseller, I want that transaction to go right.
I want you to be representing me, getting the most value I can out of it, getting the mostvalue out of the listing.
I think that the seller's agent has for me a lot of work that absolutely needs to be done.
So yeah, that makes sense.
Whereas the buyer agent, like, I might find something and like, yeah, sure, you're therehelping me.
(19:47):
But like I found it myself on Haar or on Zillow or something and you're there coordinatingand facilitating, sure.
as long as the lending documents are right, I guess I'm good.
Yeah, we actually like cash buyers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah, who doesn't?
uh Who doesn't?
(20:07):
No, I was just gonna ask if you felt that, so the laws, the rules have changed lastSeptember.
How do you feel those have shifted the balance for buyers versus sellers?
Were sellers versus buyers more advantaged?
Is the average consumer out there going to buy a single family home?
How has it impacted them?
I think it has.
I don't think it has.
(20:27):
Because I don't see much of a change.
So here's a couple of the changes that I have seen.
Now, because OK, we cannot advertise any commission base online or on HARP or on what wecall.
Well, we don't advertise on Zillow.
Zillow is an aggregate that actually takes our listings directly from our MLS.
(20:49):
And they don't even update it.
I hate Zillow.
I will say that loud and clear.
I hate Zillow.
They do not.
When people call me and say, we saw something on Zillow and it doesn't, but I'm seeingsomething else on MLS.
I'm like, because they stole our, or they took our listing and they haven't updated it.
So if we lower the price, Zillow isn't lowering the price.
(21:12):
It still shows a higher amount.
After a certain amount of time, it will finally, it'll change.
So we cannot advertise any commission at all.
We can't even say the word commission on the MLS anymore.
now, so one of the things that I've seen now, and this is one of the things I actuallyreally, it of makes me, it just grosses me out.
(21:35):
When agents call me and say, are you offering commission?
First of all,
When me if I happen to because my buyer my builders they are buyers as well So when wefind when we find lots that he's like I want to put an offer on this lot I don't call the
agent ask them if they're offering commission.
(21:55):
I just put it in there I put it in the contract give me my commission, you know, this is Iwant this is part of the offer There's a reason to call this Yeah, there's no reason for
me to call this agent say are you offering 3 %?
No, the offer is contingent with the commission included.
Yeah, absolutely, that makes sense.
There's no reason to call the agent and ask.
(22:17):
Everybody had to take classes on these new laws.
And a lot of the teachers that were teaching these courses were saying that we needed tocall the agents and ask.
Because I go through contracts.
I write contracts, I don't know, three, four, five, sometimes 10 times a week.
And if I were to call all these agents and find out and ask them if they're offeringcommission, I just feel like an asshole.
(22:42):
know?
mean, it's just gross.
sounds like it's salesy to me, you know?
Are you offering commission?
I'll just put it in the contract.
If you're not, fine.
My builder will pay me my 3%.
I've got a buyer's rep with him that says he'll pay the 3%.
Very cool.
Well, it's fascinating to all that, know, hullabaloo to improve things for the quoteunquote consumer and really no end difference to the consumer.
(23:12):
I'm sure, I'm sure like on aggregate, probably commissions have come down a percent orsomething, or, know, like a hundred basis points, but, but maybe.
have come across some sellers that are like, no, we're only offering 1.5%.
And they're like, I don't care.
It's a lot.
It's $50,000 lot.
I'm not making much money on it anyway.
(23:33):
I'm going to make more money on the sale of it with the house on it.
So let's just do it.
I don't care.
Yeah, I don't care.
Dude, it's something, give me another question, I've lost it.
Oh, MLS, I keep hearing that, what does that stand for?
Multiple Listing System.
(23:54):
I've always just read through that acronym and never really thought what it means.
So interesting question about MLS though I can give you.
Well not question, I'll just tell you.
MLS has always been very territorial.
So HAR has their own MLS.
San Antonio has their own MLS.
(24:15):
Austin has one, Dallas has one.
College Station has their own MLS.
They're all coming together now and they're all going to be one in Texas and it's justgoing to be a singular Texas MLS, which is going to be great.
Because if people are buying, if people are in San Antonio and they're relocating toHouston, now they get to see all the listings all in one place.
(24:36):
I don't, I don't have to, I don't have to try to, sorry, sorry.
I'm sorry, I was cutting you off.
I'm sorry.
But that would have been the value of an aggregator like Zillow though, being able to comeand say, I can do one search from, I don't have to go to multiple different websites.
I never really thought about their value prop.
So there are others though, there's hard, I mean, there's, there's homes.com.
(24:57):
They're great.
Realtor.com.
They're great.
You know, and, and yeah, Zillow is just the worst.
And they, they actually, they, what, and what they do, they put other people, so you canbe an ad, you can advertise on Zillow.
And what they do is they take other people's listings and put you on there.
And so it looks like you're actually the agent on that listing.
(25:18):
So they're calling the agent that's on what they're looking at, the address that they'relooking at, and they think that's the listing agent.
So they think they're calling that agent.
Well, that agent has paid Zillow to be on that page.
And it's gross to me.
I don't like it.
I don't like it at all.
I this with the interception business kind of interesting.
(25:40):
So around the concept around the idea of, guess, you know, being an agent for a builder,that has to be a much less stressful method than going out there and trying to sell
independent homes because you have a constant supply, right?
I do have constant supply, yes.
uh I wouldn't say it's any easier because we actually see it through from start to finish.
(26:07):
So again, we help the builders find the land or they find the land and then we just helpthem buy it.
And then we immediately put it on the MLS and we're looking for buyers even when there'sno,
property yet.
Yeah, you just have an architectural drawing essentially in a 3D rendering.
We have a floor plan for it.
Permits are already in place when we list it.
(26:28):
I guess we could list it without permits, but I don't think that would be right.
But permits are already in place whenever we have it listed.
And they're usually typically about to break ground, but not necessarily, not always.
We have some builders that are sitting on a bunch of land at the moment, and they're notbuilding until they get a buyer.
Interesting.
How has that market been?
So good question.
(26:50):
I would say it had been really slow from I'd say about January until about two, threeweeks ago.
And I've seen a significant uptick in the last few weeks.
Tax season is over.
um Interest rates are still fluctuating.
(27:10):
Sorry.
them going up, maybe.
Yeah, interest rates are supposed to be going up again.
But then there's people that say they're going to go down.
You never know.
It's a day to day thing.
But I think a big part of it was that tax season and also I hate to be political, but Ithink the political climate was kind of affecting it and stock markets and all of
(27:31):
was this first quarter slower than last first quarter, like year on year comparatively?
uh Okay.
say I'd say not by a lot.
But this this year, yeah, it was was was a bit a bit slower this year.
You know, I was I went to go visit my dad in Florida.
And he was scared.
He's like, I've to get all my money out of the stock market.
(27:51):
I'm going to move to Portugal or Spain or something.
Sorry about my cat.
You
it.
He's afraid that he's going to lose all his money in the stock market and end up on thestreets.
I'm like, oh, okay, well, bye.
I'll visit you in Europe.
But I think a lot of people feel that way.
They're worried that their money is not going be around.
They're not going to have their social security, Medicaid, Medicare.
(28:14):
it in real estate, you know, that's what I say.
No.
Interesting.
My impression has been that the market's been being kind of sluggish.
that's interesting.
I'm glad to hear you kind of confirm that in terms of home sales.
uh
The last few weeks though, I've absolutely seen an uptick, a significant uptick in that wewere sitting on a lot of inventory, not getting any phone calls.
(28:35):
Nobody was showing.
Mm-hmm.
you know, Cathy was really concerned and she's like, we've got to figure out somemarketing.
We've got to get these houses sold.
And, you know, we're trying to get creative on our advertising and using social media andemail, you know, email lists and.
Nothing was really working.
you know, honestly, this time of year, though, right at tax season, I have noticed everyyear since I've been with Cathy, I've noticed this time of year, it's always a struggle.
(29:05):
I too am struggling during tax season because I don't have, I don't use a CPA, I do my owntaxes.
And I always end up waiting and just do it all at one time instead of.
quarterly, which I really shouldn't do a quarterly.
And I think that's actually about to change.
That's going to change once I get Howard Home Realty LLC.
I was gonna say, think you need to get into shape if you're taking on that extra.
(29:29):
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
So, you know, it's I have yeah, this type of year, it's always it's always been and thenthere's always always the the change in the politics play a big factor in real estate too.
Years that have a an election, people are always like, we're gonna wait and see who wins,you know, who's going to be our next president, we're gonna wait.
So that affects that affects real estate in a big way.
(29:53):
And yeah, I saw at this time.
Are there buyers out there that are wanting to sell that aren't able to find buyers ormore than anything?
Yeah.
It's absolutely a buyer's market at the moment.
Don't let anybody else tell you anything different because it is absolutely a buyer'smarket.
When interest rates are high, it's typically a buyer's market.
(30:14):
When interest rates are low, people are wanting to buy.
So inventory is snatched up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
times that actually works.
That's weird to think about, but yeah, I suppose.
Well, but at the same time, the cost of the mortgage is so much higher at a 6 % versus 3 %interest rate.
(30:36):
If you...
Yeah.
you know what?
When people are talking about a 6 % interest rate, think about, you know, in the mid 90s,6 % was actually a really good interest rate.
You know, it wasn't until 2020 when interest rates got below 3 % that people startedthinking that 6 % was high.
(30:57):
It's not, it's really not.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't think we're ever going to see it that low again.
Ever.
Yeah, Yeah, the interest rates have been steadily.
Yes, interest rates have been steadily on the decline since like what early 80s, I think.
So it was just a long slowed downhill trend that we finally had to hit bottom.
(31:18):
Yeah.
Well, know, Cathy would tell me she started real estate in the eighties and she was likeback in the eighties.
it was tough.
Not only did we not have computers, she was talking about the MLS machine that they wouldget the little book or each page would come out and you'd have to sort of, but you'd have
to punch holes in the papers and put them in a book.
(31:38):
those were your listings for the month.
Wow.
Yeah, and you have to go through there and read each page and then take a Xerox copy of itand then make appointments by calling the other agency.
Anyway, everything's great now that we have computer, we just do everything online.
Back in the 80s, though, interest rates were like 12, 15 percent.
(32:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you know, 6%, that's nothing.
This is a good perspective to keep, I think.
And even though, yeah, it might feel like a sting versus 2020 or 2021, if you're lookingfor a home, you're probably still a pretty good time to be buying in terms of those rates.
I suspect a lot of some more volatility in those to continue for the next 48 months, giveor take.
(32:27):
there right now that you can probably find something that you really, want and get it at apretty good deal.
You can probably negotiate that price down.
That's good sage advice, I think, for everybody out there listening, thinking about buyinga home and there's an agent in the Houston area we have one we can refer them to.
So there are other options, there's other options of getting your interest rate down too.
(32:50):
know, we'll buy up.
of with with the buyers, are they not the buyers, the builders that you work with?
Are they baking that into how they're doing it and baking incentives to basically for thebuilder contracts to able to offer a lower rate?
Yeah, we'll talk about, and we do it not necessarily just for the buyers, but for thebuyer's agents as well.
(33:12):
So we'll offer a bonus to the agent, like a $1,000 bonus if they bring in their buyers.
We offer, the builder will sometimes, I'm not saying all of my properties, but we workwith several different builders.
So we've had builders that will buy down points.
Mm-hmm.
I think it's a 321 or two, yeah, 321.
(33:32):
So the first year, it knocks it down, I think it's two points and then it goes down to onepoint the next year and then goes back to regular.
It would be a regular interest rate after the third year.
So.
so I didn't realize they could tier the points in like that.
Yeah.
And so if you got a higher credit score, your interest rate is obviously going be a littlebit higher.
(33:56):
And if you find a builder or a seller that's willing to help buy down, but you got to becareful with that.
Because your interest rate is going to go back up each year.
And you want to make sure that you're
It's a bet on what happens three years from now.
Yeah, well, and it's also you've got to take care of your credit, you make sure youmaintain your credit, you've got a good credit score and then potentially try to
(34:22):
refinance.
Yeah, potentially.
Yeah.
And then from the builder's perspective, they tell me if I'm off base here, I think itwould be, if I were a builder, I'd be perhaps after lowering my price by whatever.
And then the buyer says, okay, well I'll transact today if you bring it down this muchmore.
And you're like, I don't want to bring it down anymore, but I'll do a rate buy down foryou.
(34:47):
How about that?
And it saves the buyer a whole bunch of money.
If they're
If they think they'll be in the home for a long time specifically, and then it keeps theasset price, the actual transaction price higher.
So yeah, I have not seen much of that.
um Actually, can honestly say I've never seen that before.
I've actually never had a rate buy down go through because it is risky.
(35:09):
Well, again, because it's a 3-2-1.
So the first year, they're buying it down by two points.
And then the next year, it gets raised a point.
Your interest rate's going to go back up.
That's what Toll Brothers is doing near me right now.
Yeah.
It's like a three, two, one.
And then the house that I bought is 30 or fixed.
(35:30):
They bought it down like two points.
It's pretty good deal.
No, it will not.
It's 30 fixed.
With the 321
I don't, that's what I'm saying.
I don't have a three, two, one.
I have a 30 year fix.
Yeah.
Cause your interest rates gonna be, I mean, you're going to have a fixed interest rate.
doesn't, but your, but with the buy down, kind of negates the, the fixed rate for threeyears.
(35:51):
You know, the first two, the first, your rate is the rate.
The buyer is just buying down those points.
So, for the, for three, for, for the, essentially for two years.
So it's the three, the, the two points for the first year, one point for the second year,and then it goes back to normal on the third.
So the rate doesn't really, the rate's not changing, it's what the buyer has paid intoyour loan.
(36:14):
So it reflects on you, on your bank account, because the holder has paid into it.
And I can see why that practice is, you know, good for certain buyers and also a risk forcertain buyers ah Yeah, makes sense So, you know, if it's a little bit of a sluggish about
the buyers market if you're out there wanting to you know Switch careers right now and getinto real estate Lindsey.
(36:38):
Is it a good time?
Is it a bad time?
What kind of stage advice you have for people out there?
Yeah
mean, yeah, come on, I'll be your broker.
I'm looking for new agents.
that's ultimately my goal with taking over Howard Home Realty is to bring on new agentsand train them to be great agents.
(37:00):
so I mean, I think it's just it's a personal preference.
I mean, if you're good at sales, then yeah, it's a good time.
There are a lot of areas that are inundated with agents.
would say Houston is absolutely one of them.
uh I don't work in Houston.
I live in Houston, but I don't work in Houston.
All of our clientele is Huntsville and North.
(37:20):
We are working in more rural areas.
The neighborhoods that we're building in are typically like golf course communities orlakeside communities.
you know, nicer big homes, know, acreage communities.
So there's not as much inundation over there as far as real estate is concerned.
(37:42):
And then Cathy has been in the business for so long that she's pretty well known andpeople just call her.
They know her.
They know who Cathy is.
They're like, let's call Cathy.
So it's a good time to get in if you have a good broker you're willing to go work withthat has a good foothold.
uh Yeah.
(38:02):
Okay.
But also that some working for some of those big time brokers that you made the first kindof work out, come work out for, it's a tough road to hoe if that's your chosen path then,
I guess.
I know people that are getting into real estate.
I have a friend that just got into it.
She got her license in September and she's working for, you know, I would say a mid-sizedcorporation And she's happy.
(38:25):
She's got a mentor there and
You know, she goes to all the classes that they require.
She's got something called Mentor Monday that she goes and talks with her mentor, who'snot actually a broker or mentor is actually another agent, but a seasoned agent.
so she's happy, she seems to be happy.
think she's got her first listing and she does a lot of open houses and, you know, I mean,that's what agents, new agents are gonna start out.
(38:51):
They're gonna be doing a lot of open houses and they're gonna, you know, I recommend a lotof networking and, you know, passing out the business card.
Yep.
Yeah, honestly, think meeting the right person at the right time is a critical portion ofthat game.
oh
groundwork that might not pay off for four years, right?
Yeah, that's true.
(39:12):
Yeah, you can expect the first year as a new agent, you're not making money.
If you're getting into real estate, I would either have a second job or a partner that isable to handle all the bills.
Yeah.
And this kind of like, this is why being an agent in my mind is like sort of, I don't wantto, I don't know.
(39:32):
I don't want to use the word small and like a derogatory way, but it's like the smallentrepreneurial start, right?
Because even if you're working under a big broker or like you've got this big, you know,nationwide known shingle on your front door, you know, on your desk or whatever, it's
still just you running a sales process, laying the groundwork and, killing what you eat.
(39:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, and you also have to that broker.
have to get your, you're typically going to be giving them as part of agent, you're goingto be giving them 50 % of your commission.
Yeah, you know, if you start any entrepreneurial and like, unless you're selling, youknow, you're going to be paying someone, right?
You've either got cogs or you've got rent or both.
You know, it's like getting started is always more money out than money in.
(40:17):
And that's sort of like, I don't know, just how it starts for almost, almost everyone.
If you're not just, I don't know, super lucky.
That's true, unless you just have a nest egg that you get to go and well even then you'restarting slow, but I guess you don't care about the revenue coming in.
You're still starting.
It's not like your revenue is gonna be quick to give you a nest egg.
It's just you can afford to let it grow slow.
(40:38):
Yes.
I was actually really fortunate because when I got it when I started up again in 2017, Iwas asked to come to work and I you know, she was already she was swamped busy and really
needed help.
And so I started making money right away.
I was fortunate.
But not everybody's gonna have that.
(40:59):
Yeah.
I was very fortunate.
Yeah.
Okay, well, Lindsay, thank you for taking some time to come on and talk with us.
think we're at a good length here for our introduction to Lindsay Howard.
And Howard, I'm sorry, would you like to offer a plug to any websites or anything whereyou want people to find you before I just shoo you away?
(41:21):
No?
You just look up Lindsay Howard.
My name is Feldale, I-N-D-S-A-Y.
Okay, well if you think it's enough to let me know, you put it in the show notes.
Honestly, don't.
My website is howardhomereality.com.
Okay, well see that's all we needed.
That'll make it into the transcript now and then it's there for the LLMs to find and sendpeople your way.
(41:42):
Awesome.
Well, I'm going to be posting this everywhere anyway, uh
tuning into our first possibly interview episode to be released on Unqualified Advice.
Yeah.
where's John?
And next time, yeah, we'll have to do it again with John to get him his take on the legalaspect because he does have a really interesting side of legal real estate.
(42:09):
That's a very interesting niche.
All right.
Well, thanks all.
We'll see you next time.
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