The Realities of Open Adoption with a Mother-Daughter Duo with Linda and Belle Sexton - Ep 166 - Unraveling Adoption

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome to this episode of Unraveling Adoption, an intentional space
to delve into adoption's complexities together. I'm Beth Syverson.
I'm an adoptive mom of a courageous and intuitive 20-year-old
son, Joey. I'm walking beside him while working on my own personal growth
and healing. I'm also a certified coach, primarily helping
adoptive parents. Joey and I are committed to helping anyone impacted by

(00:24):
adoption, and we want to help the general public understand adoption's complexities
better too. I'm sure you're aware of the move toward
more open adoptions in the past couple of decades. Though
the definition and lived experience of open adoption can be drastically different
from family to family, today we are going to talk to one family
who has had open adoptions with their two adopted children from

(00:46):
day one. We have with us today Linda Sexton,
an adoptive mom and author of The Branches We
Cherish, an open adoption memoir. And I'm
happy to bring in her 25-year-old daughter, Belle.
This is the first time we've had a mother-daughter team on
Unraveling Adoption. And also, it's the first adoptive

(01:08):
parent-adopted child duo besides me and my son
on the pod. So yay! I'm excited for these collaborations.
So let's see where this conversation takes us. So welcome to
Unraveling Adoption to Belle and Linda. Glad you're here. Thank you.
Well, I usually have adoptees just briefly share their adoption story at

(01:29):
the beginning, just so we can kind of figure out where you're coming from. Belle,
would you like to just tell us a little bit about your childhood, your
For sure. So I was born in Austin, Texas. My
birth parents were 15 and 16 when I was born. You
can imagine that. And they considered
a lot of different options when they first found out that they were pregnant, but

(01:52):
adoption and open adoption resonated the most for them. made
an open adoption plan, met my parents. They interviewed
a lot of different parents and they met my parents and it just clicked. And
so I only lived in Texas for about a year and then
we moved to Northern Virginia and I had visits throughout
my childhood with my birth mother and

(02:15):
birth father. And I can kind of get into some of the details
of that a little bit later, but I was very blessed in that I always
knew who they were to me. And there's honestly not a
Okay. Yeah, that's how I did it with my son, too. And I think that's what
we're supposed to be doing nowadays. That way, they don't have a day where they're like, Oh,

(02:36):
my gosh, what? And so you've been in touch with
your birth family. Were you with your birth family for a year? Or
No. So I was with my parents, my mom, who's
on right now, Linda, and David from was
it two days after I was born? Okay. Yeah, so they had made

(02:56):
the plan beforehand and were a part of the pregnancy
as well and seeing me grow in my birth mother's belly
Okay. And just that little bit of conversation elucidated some
interesting vocabulary issues because like, who
So I say mom and dad for my adoptive

(03:19):
mom and my adoptive dad. And then I say birth mother and
birth father for my birth parents. I
think one thing that really stood out to me when I was younger, when I
would very candidly share my adoption story, because
that was just how my parents brought me up. is to
be proud of such a cool background. But one of the

(03:39):
questions I would get a lot are like, do you know your real parents? Or
what about your real parents? And that was always triggering for
me. I didn't like that. Like my real parents are the ones who
So yeah, that are taking you to ballet class or whatever you're doing.
Yeah, doing the day to day stuff. So so you call them your
birth parents. I know some adoptees call them by your first name, or

(04:01):
every family, I guess has to make up how they want to do it. So
that's, that's really great. So Linda, how was
that watching this pregnancy and hoping that
this child would become yours? How did that work for you? What
Yes. Thank you, Beth. Very joyful and
stressful time. All these emotions at the same

(04:22):
time. And we did have the privilege of
meeting and knowing and matching with Belle's birth
parents. And I want to say we had about three months together.
Now we lived in different cities. I was in Houston and
they were in Austin, but a drive, a three hour drive. So
during that time, we did get together on

(04:45):
multiple occasions and met their families as well because
they were teenagers, as Bell already said. So her
birth mom was 15 and birth dad was
16. And so we did get a chance to meet their moms and dads, too.
And it was a really wonderful time for us
to bond together. But it was a scary time for us and

(05:08):
a scary time for them. And of course, it's one
of those things that you never know what is
going to happen after the child is born and how difficult
it really can be and as it should be for
the birth parents. So it was very, very
I bet. And you had a little one too at that time. My older

(05:30):
sibling was, as you mentioned Beth, also the
wonderful product of an open adoption. Okay. So you were the second
adopted child. Yeah. So there was a little four-year-old coming to
Yeah. I just have to add this. The four-year-old, when
they met the four-year-old, that was one of the reasons why they ended

(05:53):
up picking us, because they wanted a sibling for
their child. And they loved Belle's
sibling. And they said, that's the family for us.
That is. Oh, that's beautiful. And Linda, I bet a
part of you was like, oh, no, what if this birth mom changes her mind? Because
that can happen. And like, how did you handle all of those emotions happening?

(06:16):
Yes, that, of course, is a really big
concern for the adoptive parents. But also, you
know, that if the birth mom and birth dad
choose to make the adoption plan, that that
is not only their right, but it's something that
if they want to do that, that at the end of the day, that's

(06:38):
probably the right answer for that child. And I
will say that that actually did happen to us, that
we were matched and the birth mom did decide to parent.
And it was difficult, but at the end of the day,
we knew that that was the right thing. In the case of Belle, though,
I will say birth mom and dad did right

(06:59):
after the birth, they took Belle into their room and they
stayed there for two days. And David and I did not see them.
And they needed those two days with Belle to
bond with Bell and to make their final
decision. And I know that those were probably the
two most difficult days of their life. But when

(07:21):
they did make that decision, they actually did a little ceremony in
the chapel at the hospital. And Bell's birth
mom handed Bell to me. Anyway,
But Bell's birth mom handed Bell to me, and
everybody was there and they all hugged and kissed

(07:43):
and it was the single
deepest emotional event, single event that I
I bet. It sounds like it went as well as it could possibly
go when someone has to relinquish a child. It sounds like there was
a lot of care involved, a lot of intention, ritual, space,

(08:03):
time to give to everyone involved. Are there pictures
No, we did not take pictures of the ceremony, which was
the right thing. I mean, this was not the kind of event where
you wanted cameras going. But we certainly have wonderful
And I will say I was actually visiting my birth father

(08:27):
and his kiddos. So my half siblings, who I adore,
I adore all of my half siblings. I have eight, so
there's a lot. but two from my birth father.
And the last time I was visiting their home, he actually brought out
a big box of kind of memorabilia and stuff. He showed me
pictures from like when my birth mother and

(08:48):
him were dating, when they were like in high school together. And
he also would write a lot. And so he had a lot of poetry and
writing letters to me. And so that was really amazing.
And also to be able to look through that box with
my little half-siblings as well, because they're
kind of at the age where they're still wrapping their heads around

(09:11):
how I am related to them, how I can have different parents, but
still be their sister. But I will say kids are
very resilient. Usually if you tell them something, they believe you
and they take it at face value, which is wonderful. Yeah,
it was just a, it was a super cool moment to be able to share that and
Oh, it just sounds so beautiful. I mean, this is kind of the story that

(09:33):
I think the public thinks all adoptions are like. Yeah. I
don't know, because I've heard some really horrible exchanges,
you know, some really ripping babies away from birth. Oh
my gosh. Really, really tough situations. And
I mean, if this is what the world thinks is adoption, well, this
is pretty beautiful. I mean, a 15 and 16 year old,

(09:55):
that's really young and you are
able to stay in contact with them. So I'm sure it wasn't
always perfect, though. Are you, without giving anyone else
a story or, you know, divulging too much personal stuff, what
That's a good question. Or maybe it has been perfect. I don't know. No, I
think it's a really good point to talk about. I would

(10:20):
say that I have a closer relationship with my birth father than I do my
birth mother. She has six little ones
of her own, well, all different ages. So she's got a
big family, which obviously adds to maintaining a
relationship. But I think that was maybe sometimes
growing up a little bit hard for me to understand. And

(10:40):
I think that, like we were saying, my Earth mother was 15 when
I was born. So she was so young. And when
I was turning 15 and thinking about that and just imagining
like all of the turmoil that she went through. I think that was very
challenging for her. And honestly, I would love to talk to her more
about it. I haven't really gotten that opportunity

(11:02):
just yet. And I also maybe haven't made that opportunity for myself just yet,
but I can imagine that it was very difficult for her. But I will
say one of the things that I did learn, which was actually
a big comfort to me, but I know was hard for her to share is
that they did. consider terminating the pregnancy as
well. And I know that my birth mother was really worried that

(11:22):
I would hear that and be distressed by it or sad or
whatever. And honestly, it gave me so much comfort knowing that
they had that option, especially being in Texas. knowing
that they had that ability and they made the choice to
have an adoption and it wasn't out of there being no
You weren't forced to be there. They went through the pregnancy knowing

(11:44):
that they would probably relinquish and that felt kind
of like you were meant to be here. Like there was some sacrifice on
their part to meet this beautiful little baby and hand it
My sibling and I have both talked about this, how we don't like
when people use adoption as like, oh, well, like you
don't need to terminate the pregnancy. You can just adopt as if that's

(12:06):
like such an easy thing to do, as if being 15 years
old and making a plan for your child and relinquishing a
child that you carried in your stomach for nine months when you already have, you know, all
the hormones and struggles of being a 15 year old, it's not
an easy decision. And it was very courageous, but it's
Yeah, I'm with you. I don't think those two are on opposite

(12:29):
ends of the spectrum. I think it's not like a choice between A or B. They're
totally different situations and much care needs to be taken all
around. And Belle, did you grow up with this extended family in
your birth family? Do you have memories with grandparents and that
Yeah, definitely. I would get the most thoughtful gifts
from my birth grandmother, my birth father's mom for

(12:52):
every birthday. like it would be a quilt and everyone would have
written a quote that they wanted me to have or I got
cowboy boots on my 16th birthday since I'm a
Texan at heart and I got a wonderful car
organizer with all these different things for when I was starting driving and
they made me a CD. My birth parents both

(13:13):
had big families and siblings and so My
birth father and all of his siblings and their parents
picked a song and made this awesome mixtape for me for
my 16th birthday. And I had many other really thoughtful gifts
like that. And I was able to celebrate with them. And
in fact, I'm going to spend Thanksgiving with them this year, which

(13:34):
will be really fun. So I feel very lucky in that
way. But I know you did kind of ask about the challenges and I don't
want to like gloss over. what my sibling and
I have gone through as adoptees and as the
wonderful products of open adoption. And I
think for a while, one of the main things I was kind of talking to

(13:55):
my mom about before we hopped on the call
was when you have a closed adoption, it seems like there's
very much this fantasy world that you can create. And I feel
like there's a term for it. I can't remember. Oh yeah. Ghost kingdom.
Ghost kingdom. So you have this like world where what
if I had been with my birth parents and like

(14:17):
for better or for worse, there was no illusion there. I knew the
what if. Curtains could have been open. Yes, exactly. And my
birth father had shared that before I was born, he was really
on a bad path, potentially going to join a gang, like it
was just not, it was hard. And so
I think, in some ways, that being lost is

(14:38):
a good thing, because I was able to appreciate what I had. But one
of the things I'm still struggling with, and I think it's
contributed to some of the emotional turmoil in my life is
this adoptee's guilt, and feeling like, Oh,
my gosh, how? Why did I get so lucky? Why was I
given this opportunity that so many other people weren't and

(15:00):
just reconciling with Now as I, you know,
I'm 25, going to turn 26 soon, starting
to think about what I want for my life. And I think
a part of where that adoptee's guilt came in is I
was often looking to other people for validation of my choices
and not wanting to ever disappoint my parents, even though I

(15:22):
will say they always made me feel loved. But when you kind of
carry that guilt of why me, it can be, it
can be difficult. And so that was, I think, one thing that's pretty
characteristic maybe of our open adoption is that we saw
So kind of survivor's guilt. Yeah, exactly. Interesting.

(15:46):
Well, yeah, I was thinking about, you know, what are some
of the challenges and what I saw? And I have to
say that in writing the book, I learned so
much more than I knew while Bill was growing up.
So now I've got all this guilt about, oh gosh, I wish I had known
this or I wish I had known that. But one of the things that I

(16:07):
saw is Belle was the child that was always
the pleaser and the perfectionist. And
I think, you know, now that I know about the
primal wound and the vulnerability for that
child, I think that trying to please and be
perfect growing up, and I saw that. I saw that in

(16:28):
Belle. And I think that could have stemmed from the
separation from her birth mom. Although
I will also mention this, that her birth parents took her
into that room for two days and stayed with her. I
think that that gave Belle a tremendous maybe
leg up on what a lot of adoptees Healing.

(16:52):
Because Bell's sibling did not have that. And
it wasn't because their birth mom didn't want to give it
to them, but they had gone into the NICU. And then
it turned out that they were still in the hospital and their birth mom went home.
And so there was quite a separation. And I could
actually see the difference just in how the

(17:14):
babies reacted, even to me and to
us. But another thing that I saw later
and recognized it not while it was happening, but. I've
learned that adoptees can also harbor anger and they
don't know where it came from. And Belle did have
some times in her life, she's smiling, where this

(17:36):
anger came out and it was not commensurate
with the situation. Why should she be that angry?
And I think that all of those things, again, I didn't recognize it
at the time, but I do think that it has to do its
Yeah. And I mean, I've learned a lot more about

(17:59):
adoption. And then also I am diagnosed ADHD. So
I've learned a lot about ADHD as well, and like emotional dysregulation
and that way too. And I think that it's kind of hard sometimes
to unravel, unravel, like the
ways in which adoption affected me versus just other
experiences in my life, like society, whatever, all

(18:21):
these different things. But I will say like the playing
the role of like kid who like always wants to make
their parents happy. And my sibling was we both were rebellious, but
like my sibling was definitely more rebellious and they were the
older one. And I think I saw how hard it was
for my parents as well. And so. I

(18:42):
think maybe some of the anger came from this repression
of really knowing how to cope with this guilt and knowing how
to cope with the loss and Also just kind
of making sense of my birth parents, like
different involvement in my life too. And like making

(19:03):
Cause they did not stay together, right? No, they didn't stay together. They married
other people and had kids with other people. Yeah. I think sometimes
it was like a little bit hard for me to understand too, why I was
seeing my birth father more than my birth mother. And I
know a lot of that was financial as well. And. My
birth mother didn't have the same financial means that my birth father had.

(19:25):
And I actually had a really cool conversation with
my birth father. I think actually the same time I was back when I
was going through the pictures and with my birth father and his brother, who
was also close with my birth mother. And we cried
and we kind of talked about a lot of different things. They shared
insight like that about how it was difficult for

(19:45):
them. And even when they knew the relationship was over, they
had this tremendous trauma bond and how that affected
them. And as teenagers going into young adulthood, but
I was able to get that perspective from my birth father too, to
kind of shed light on some of the different things that I didn't always understand
Well, that's so beautiful that he was able to share that with you and

(20:07):
that you can empathize with how tough that must have been for them. Absolutely.
And you can empathize with your little infant child self
that's like, dang it, what's going on? Where is everybody? And that
ADHD is so common for adoptees and then anger
too. And it's super common and it's
totally understandable. Like you don't know what's going on. You don't know

(20:29):
words. You don't understand what these grownups are doing around you. You're
just like, what the heck? Where did my mom go? So
I hear you have a lot of wisdom and a lot of insight into all
those different angles and complexities. None
of this is simple and just like, oh, it's all good or it's all bad.
So complicated. And for 25, I give you lots of

(20:52):
I have a wonderful family and a sibling that is also going
through Yeah, I think one of the greatest gifts that
my parents gave my sibling and I was each other and having
it's gonna make me cry. Having
someone who obviously we had different situations,
we had different birth parents, and we did have very different

(21:15):
experiences, I think, with our birth parents as well. I don't want to like gloss over
that, but having a sibling that can understand the
uniqueness of our situation. And I think My
sibling did a lot of the work ahead of me.
I know, right. I
remember when they like were first kind of like looking into the

(21:36):
ways their adoption affected them and they were reading
the primal wound. And one of the things that I kind of shared
was the loss that you have with your birth mother
when you're separated at birth and how that can affect you,
even if it's not something that you consciously remember. And I remember being
maybe 16 or 17, and I resented

(21:58):
that so much. And that was my adoptee's guilt kind of
coming in, being like, how could we possibly say that
we were just doomed from the start when we've been
given so much and we've had such a good go? And
I have always loved my sibling and been their biggest supporter, but
that really was hard for me to understand and hard for me to understand

(22:19):
why they were giving thought to that. And I didn't believe it
at first. I still have a lot of work to do, but I'm
It's something that each of you individually and together will probably work
on the rest of your life, kind of just hashing it out, figuring it out, how
it affects everybody. How is the book, the memoir that

(22:40):
your mom wrote, how was it writing that as a
family? Belle, Linda, how has it brought you closer?
One, I learned so much about my adoption and the adoption process, like
how many hoops my parents had to go through. And I
was able to see photographs and letters and stuff from

(23:02):
like when I was first adopted and my parents picture
in their little book that all the birth parents would look
through and they were, you know, selling themselves. Advertisement book.
I know. Awkward. Yes. But I think
in some ways it was challenging. But overall, I felt like I
think it was probably harder for the birth mothers than

(23:26):
it was for sex dinner. I just because my
mom writing this book, it kind of brings to the surface some things
that maybe they haven't even touched for a long time.
My mom had us read, you know, all the chapters. We
got a copy of the book before we went to the editor. We got many copies that
were very nicely binded. Thanks, mom. And I checked

(23:48):
off on all the parts about my childhood and There's a
line that always makes me laugh, like, Mel was not without her struggles
with drugs and alcohol. And I remember reading that and
Do you really have to put it in
Put me on blast, mom. But I think overall,
my sibling and I are very authentic people. And maybe because

(24:11):
of our open adoption and just because of the way that our parents taught
us to share it, I feel like we were a lot more
confident in talking about these things. A lot of times my
fun fact, like when you're in a big group of people and they're like, what's your fun fact? Mine
would be like, I'm adopted. And I would like share that. So I
think overall it wasn't too hard, but I think it was definitely

(24:34):
Yeah, the book, it did take me about five years to really
do it from start to finish. And as I said before,
I learned so much in writing this book as I had to do research.
And, you know, I had many aha moments. But I
think the most important parts of that book are
the chapter where I interviewed my two kids. So

(24:57):
their voices are in there. But also there is
some writing in there. from Belle's birth father
and a couple of places where he wrote, and that's in
there. And then also Belle's older sibling's
birth mom wrote a piece. And she
really had a very difficult time when I gave her

(25:19):
the book, because if you think about it, this made them relive
this moment in their life that was incredibly difficult. So
she had a hard time giving me feedback because I interviewed everybody for the
book. I interviewed all four birth parents as well as my
two kids. And so I wanted to get their voices, their perspective.
And after I did that and she read it, she said,

(25:41):
I need to write something myself and did. And it's a beautiful piece
that she wrote, which is in there. And then Bell's birth
grandmother wrote a piece as well. So I
feel like Even though I'm the author of the book, I worked
as hard as I could to get everybody's perspective and everybody's voice

(26:02):
That is really special. Yeah, it's one thing for an adoptive mom to
say, Oh, I'm an option is so great. But to hear from all
the players all the way around, and I love that the grandma's in
there, or the grandparent. That's so beautiful. Is there anything
else that you would like to say that I didn't ask about? Is there anything you'd
I think my mom does a great job addressing this in the

(26:23):
book, but open adoption is not without its
challenges. There's certainly benefits of having double the
family, but it comes with sometimes double the complications and
double the relationships to maintain and navigate. But
I truly think that we were given such a gift in
being able to get to know our birth parents,

(26:46):
and I wrestle with that all the time. Why was I so
lucky? But I would say, I guess, just to hopeful adoptive parents,
consider that. Even though it might be messy, it might be hard
sometimes, you might have different opinions, and it's kind of
hard to, I think, imagine raising a child with another
set of opinions. But I think for the

(27:08):
sake of the child, it's definitely to their benefit. And
just love your kid and let them be who they're going
Nice. That is great advice. Linda, what would you like your last words
Yeah, I would say if there's only one thing that I could
say it would be that an adopted child benefits

(27:29):
greatly from knowing and connecting with their biological
family. And if you can do it directly with the birth parents,
that's great. But even if you can't, there's somebody
in their family, whether it's a grandmother, a grandfather, an aunt,
an uncle, a brother or sister, there's somebody that
you as an adoptive parent can connect with. and

(27:51):
connect your child to them because, you know, we're nature and
nurture. And, you know, the adoptive parents can do all
the nurturing they want and can and they can do a perfect job
at that. Well, they can't. Nobody does a perfect job. But the fact is,
is that that nature comes from their biological family
and they need to know about that. And if they have no clue

(28:12):
about that, it's a huge void. So, you know,
the child is the North Star in any adoption. And
Connect them with their birth families, however you can do that,
I think that's great advice. Well, thank you both. This is
our first mother-daughter episode. It's great having you guys'

(28:33):
energy here. Is there a way people can get a hold of either
of you, or do you want just to, Linda, or if people wanted
I will let my mom plug her socials, and then maybe if
Yes, I'll do that. And look, the best way to get hold of me is through my
website. It's LyndaRSexton.com. And

(28:58):
if you go to that website, I have obviously my book
is up there and you can buy my book from there. But more importantly, I've got
blogs. I tell little stories and blogs and
I will give you the 10 things I wish I knew at the start of my journey
and just connect. We're doing this to help people coming after

(29:20):
Great. And I'll put that in the show notes in case you're driving or something as you're listening to
this. And I'm with you, Linda. I'm trying to help people know
better than I did when I went through it. So if anyone's listening
that knows younger adoptive parents that have little kids or
that are thinking about adopting, share this episode with
them. Get them more educated than I

(29:40):
was for sure. And just help them to learn
from those of us that have been through it and especially learn from adoptees like
Belle that are willing to share their story. That's awesome. Thank you both for
being on. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you, Beth. Now,
listeners, after you go check out Linda's website, go and
check out unravelingadoption.com. There's lots of information

(30:02):
on there and resources, including information about our book, coaching
events. We have a couple of great events coming up on Sunday,
October 13th. We have our next conversations about
adoption and suicidality. It's a discussion circle
based on our brand new book called Adoption and Suicidality. It's
a place for people to come and talk openly about their experiences with

(30:24):
suicide or suicidality. And
the next week, October 20th, we have another medicine circle with
Miyo Ikoro for adoptees who have been
transformed through plant medicine. Lots of really great resources
for you galore. So check out unravelingadoption.com. Thank
you all for listening. Belle, Linda, and I want you all to stay

All Episodes

The Realities of Open Adoption with a Mother-Daughter Duo with Linda and Belle Sexton - Ep 166

Episode Summary:

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

24/7 News: The Latest

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Realities of Open Adoption with a Mother-Daughter Duo with Linda and Belle Sexton - Ep 166