December 21, 2024 • 31 mins
Join Bruce Scheer and B2B sales expert Brendan McAdams as they discuss powerful strategies to help early-stage startups achieve rapid customer adoption. Discover actionable insights from Brendan's book and learn how to refine your sales approach for success.
- The importance of founders taking an active role in sales.
- Framework for securing early customer adoption.
- Using discovery conversations to refine messaging and engagement.
- Overcoming cultural aversions and negative stereotypes in sales.
- Validating products through early sales and feedback.
00:00 Winning early adopters requires founder-led sales efforts.
03:53 Simplifying startup obstacles for successful product adoption.
07:05 Sales is about discovering needs and fit.
12:42 Sales skills are crucial for career advancement.
16:42 Communicate ideas early for effective traction.
17:38 Engage early adopters to gather valuable feedback.
22:32 Mindset to messaging: a natural progression flow.
24:12 Conversations clarify solutions, identify needs, drive understanding.
30:08 Mindset, messaging, and early adopter engagement insights.
31:03 Keep showing up with value.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to the value pro show where value pros get value
ready.
Hi. My name is Bruce Shearer, the host of the value pro show. In this
episode, we are talking with Brendan McAdams. Brendan is a
seasoned b to b sales expert and fellow author who helps
early stage startups and founders accelerate their sales success.
(00:23):
His experience and advice relate to any team focused on early go
to market success. Now Brennan's newest book, Sales
Launch, Win Your Early Adopters Fast, delivers
actionable insights and strategies to help go to market teams
and entrepreneurs land critical early customers. If
you've struggled to find the right customers or want to accelerate your go to
(00:45):
market success, this episode is for you.
Well, Brendan, thanks so much for joining the ValuePro Show. I'm so
excited for this episode. I, personally read
your book, early release copy of the book, and thank you so
much for sharing that with me. And boy, oh, boy, I
Brendan, it it just, profoundly struck me
(01:09):
because I've started a new firm, and I'm trying to win
customers faster, hence the title of our episode, how to win early
adopters faster. And, and, also, you talked
about the importance of the founder in the book really kinda
owning the sales ball, not not delegating it off, not
outsourcing it, not not trying to, you know, run away from
(01:30):
it, but but truly embracing that as such a critical
success factor in growing your new business.
And, of course, you and I talked about that in relation to
any new go to market initiative. You know, even if
you're, you know, Hewlett Packard, for example, you're a small team, new
storage solution, you need to hit the market and do that right. You
(01:52):
need early adopters faster. So it's not just for
startups. It's for entrepreneurs within an organization
that go to market team that really wants go to market success.
And you've, again, written this fantastic book,
Sales Launch, Win Your Early Adopters Fast
and, by Brennan McAdams. It's out on Amazon. I
(02:15):
encourage everyone to go grab a copy. And, one
thing I loved about your book the most, Brennan, is how short it
is. You know, it's it's not 80,000 words of
bloat and and everything else. It's it's
like the book I wrote. It's light, rich in nutrient, and
very light in bad calories. Yeah. It well,
(02:37):
it's, the idea behind it is, you know, a lot of the
people don't have that much free time to absorb
something, and there's so many there's so many distractions
and obligations that a founder has that that a a any kind
anyone that runs a business has. And so I wanted to have
something that someone could very quickly absorb, you know, consume,
(03:00):
absorb, and then pass on to somebody else. So that was the that was the
logic behind it. Oh, I love it. Have you ever heard the the
phrase busier than a one armed carpenter? Yes. Yeah. One of
my old bosses used to love to say that, you know, busier than a one
armed carpenter. And and, you know, when you're on some sort of a new
go to market initiative, you are busier than a one armed
(03:22):
carpenter. Who has time to read a big, huge, thick book? And
and so, your your insightfulness
and, courtesy in not wasting time
in just getting to the points, is fantastic
in this book. Appreciate that. Thanks. Oh, thanks. Well, tell us a
little bit about you. And most importantly, Brendan, why are you
(03:45):
so darn passionate about helping go to
market teams acquire new customers faster?
Well, I spent a lot of time in the kind of the startup space
and in the, in the, in the tech
space and, with even with larger companies that are
launching a new product and so forth. And in the course of all that,
(04:07):
I ran over an accelerator for a while, and I've, taught a lot
of early stage startups and founders and so forth. And there
are certain patterns keep emerging, and and bad bad
habits keep emerging, and that I'd that I'd spot. And,
and so I I really wanted to spend a little time focusing
on trying to simplify and kind of demystify
(04:30):
some of those those those obstacles that get in the way for a
lot of people that are trying to adopt trying to get adoption
of a new of a new idea, a new product,
and and how to make that happen, more effectively,
less painfully. That's where I was aiming for. I love it,
man. I can tell also, Vernon, you got a heart for sales. You wanna
(04:52):
help people. Have you I don't know if you heard this phrase during the
pandemic. It was called, helping is the new selling. Oh,
really? Okay. No. I didn't yes. But, no. I can tell you you
wrote that book for good reason. You want you know, you've seen the pain. You've
seen the, the frustrating mistakes, and, you're
trying to help people get ahead through that book. So so it's wonderful.
(05:14):
Well, let's, let's turn the corner and just, you know,
as, any awesome consultant, you know, you you
bring a framework in in terms of how to help people, and
this is featured in your book. But can you, just give us a
flyover of, you know, how to win customers
faster, especially, you know, taking advantage of your
(05:36):
framework? And and, of course, we'll drill into a few of these pieces
here, but just give us a an overview of this, how you came
to it. Yeah. So so first of all, there there are a number of components
to it. The the the the former the first the first few, components
in the framework are really focused on getting initial
momentum and and traction and and
(05:59):
and getting, and getting the point of a yes. And then the the
latter half are, how do you scale? So so I thought that
for for this conversation with any kind of an enterprise of
any size that's looking to get, traction around new idea, we would
focus on that first half of them, the framework, which is around mindset,
messaging, alignment, agreement. And the the idea
(06:21):
behind that, Bruce, what I'm what I'm really trying to get at
is the first thing you have to do is is is have the right
frame of mind. This is particularly important with founders and entrepreneurs.
And a lot of times, those those people are are not
salespeople. They're they may be technical. They may have some sort of a kind of
a, operational background or so forth. And so
(06:42):
sales isn't their natural,
you know, kind of footprint
or their or their stance. They're not focused on sales. And in a lot of
cases, they view sales with at a distance.
You know, it's manipulative. It's not pleasant. You know,
it's a it it's a necessary evil kind of a thing.
(07:05):
And and so the first thing I try and do is is get them to
think about sales in a very different way, which is Mhmm. That
it's really not about trying to force someone into a decision.
It's it's much more about trying to help people,
and it's, and and see if there's a fit. So it's really
much more it's as much detective work and
(07:28):
analytical work than it is, you
know, selling. It's you know, you're not really trying to convince them within so
much as get them to understand and figure out whether or not there's
a, an opportunity to work together. And
the the the kind of the the pleasant surprise there is if you're
an operational person, if you're a a technical person, you've got a, you know,
(07:50):
engineering mindset and so forth, you're you actually have a lot of skills
and capabilities that lend themselves to being good at
that process. If you don't think of it as sales, if you think of it
as trying to do discovery and figure out where the fit
is and where the problems are and that sort of thing. And by doing
so, that takes a lot of the burden off the the
(08:13):
the the person, handling or or driving that
new idea, that new product, the new company forward. So
that's that's where you start is with, you know, getting people to think
about things a little, differently than they do. And that's that's
a surprisingly big challenge for a lot of a lot of folks.
They don't they don't wanna go and meet with people. They
(08:35):
don't wanna talk to people. They wanna sit at their desk or a
cafe or wherever and build, you know, and create.
And you get that. I get that totally, but at the same
time, the the chances of creating the right
thing are limited if you're not if you're
not having conversations with a lot of people, early on
(08:57):
to get feedback and perspectives and understand what the,
you know, what the obstacles are and also understand, like, the the
constraints and the kind of the the the lay of the land
of the industry or the problem you're trying to solve. You
bet. You bet. There's a lot to unpack on this,
Brendan, for sure, you know, because that is the biggest rock, and you
(09:19):
highlighted that in the book, mindset. Brendan, an an
another friend of mine, fellow author, Mark Hunter, was on,
the Value Pro Show, fairly recently. People could find that episode.
But, god, he really nailed it, I felt, Brendon. He said
sales is not something you do to someone.
It's something you do for someone. Right. Yeah. And
(09:41):
that that shift in mindset, you know, that you're you're being
valuable to someone else that that you highlight in the book really
well. It's just absolutely critical. And,
I've got this mentality that if if you're a leader, you're in sales.
If you're influencing anyone to join your your cause, to
to offer funding in your cause, to work on your
(10:03):
cause, You know, you're you're you're influencing others. You
know, by definition, you're you're
in sales in my opinion. Right. But but a lot of people have
this really weird, hang up
when it comes to selling what they have to offer to
other parties externally. It's but it's it's not even
(10:26):
weird. It's sort of it's been kinda built into the kind of our
you know, into the into our culture to some degree. There you know, you know,
there have been a lot of bad salespeople out there, a lot of very manipulative
people, and there's a lot, you know, the, there's, you know,
movies and so forth. I mean, Glengarry Glen Ross, the you're right.
Rain, you know, 1st place. Right? Cadillac. 2nd place, steak
(10:48):
knives. Right? Every every salesperson Coffee is for closers. You know?
Right. Right. Right. Right. So that those sorts of things, you
know, perpetuate themselves. But, but, yeah, I
I I always think of sales as helping people make a decision. Right? It's like
and the decision may very well be, no. This isn't
for me. And and you as a founder, as a the person
(11:11):
driving the idea, the entrepreneur, the the person that's running the business,
the the the idea, it may be very well it's you have
the same ability. No. I'm not selling this to you. You're not a good fit
for me. And and if you're the founder and you can walk
away from a deal because you don't think this is the right customer for you,
they're gonna be a big burden. They're gonna they're gonna be a resource hog. They
(11:35):
they they don't understand what the product does. They're not sophisticated enough. They're they're
gonna they you know? Whatever the reason is, if you have that ability to
also say no, then that's puts you on a much more of an even
playing field. And so you you can start to think about
selling much less as this manipulative thing you're
doing, but but instead looking for the right sort of
(11:57):
partners. And, frankly, what I and I just got
done with, being involved in a a webinar coaching
session where where that was one of the
things that came up over and over again is how do you get the first
customer? How do you get the first couple customers? And and they're you know? And
I I talked to one of my clients yesterday. Same thing. He's like,
(12:19):
just the first one. How do I get the first one? And so you know?
And you can but there are ways to do it. Absolutely.
And but what's the reward? Let's talk about the big why. So
you gotta get the mindset right. Get get past any hang ups you might
have about sales. But then what's the
reward? Why do you need those early customers?
(12:42):
Well, the there's any so many
people, you know, again, you know, you're getting getting them to
think outside the box in terms of, hey. Sales isn't this this,
this, necessary evil, but it's actually something that
can advance my career. Right? For example,
many of the best CEOs, you know, and most famous
(13:04):
CEOs are salespeople. And so you you if you
wanna be if if you're a founder, if you're running a business, if you're running
a division inside a company, being able to sell and and
and, you know, and and understand a a sales situation
and break things down and, and work with a
customer around or, or or whomever is looking to make
(13:26):
a decision, that's a skill that that
that, a, keeps you in front of the keeps you running your own company.
It, allows you it gives you opportunities for advancement, those sorts
of things. But more specifically and more immediately,
you know, getting their first sale, their first key sales
(13:47):
can be instrumental to driving product direction.
It can be it it gets you your first, your first,
references and your ROI, you know, ROI
and case studies and testimonials. Those things are invaluable.
It it it's motivating, right, for your team as you grow your
(14:07):
team to having a cuss that first win, the first
customers to work with. Those are all kind of fundamentally
important. And then, of course, you know, one of the things I talk about a
lot is there's a there's a tremendous,
glamour with running with, fundraising.
Right? With with for a start up company to be able to go
(14:28):
and get funding, right, from a VC. But the the
attractiveness of getting sales first before
you go after funding is you, a, you get much
better terms. Right? Because you've got a revenue stream. It's much more
likely to get funded, and you're gonna get it under better terms. And
secondarily, you you may need less money. You may
(14:50):
need no money. Right? And and that allows the people inside the
company to own more of their own business as opposed to selling
it to a VC. I mean, VCs play a very valuable role.
You know, investors play a very valuable role, and there are certain businesses where you
need a lot of money to scale, Uber, for example, or
Airbnb. But but there are a lot of other businesses where, you
(15:13):
know, you can boot strap it to, you know, 1,000,000 of dollars, especially if
you can get some of those first early customers to to to get
that flywheel going. Excellent. Excellent. Yep. So
those are some of the big wins. And, also, gosh. I
as part of my storyline in terms of getting a great narrative
together, I think you'll probably cover some of that messaging. But
(15:35):
when you're landing deals, and everything's
economically starting to spin right, life
gets a lot more fun. A lot a lot less stress. Yeah. Or
or good stress, invigorating stress. Well, ultimately, that's one of the
things is, like, revenue solves a lot of problems. Right? There's
nothing quite like revenue to, a, it validates your product.
(15:58):
Right? It it's a it's valid it's you're on the right when someone's writing
you a check or paying you for something that you built, then you know you're
on the right track. Right? Yeah. Yeah. That's the that's the only you know,
telling your your mom telling you she likes your product is nothing. Right?
Right? But but having a customer that you don't know very well
write a check and pay pay you money,
(16:21):
That's validation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that's delivering
value. That's the exchange. That's that's the lifeblood of the business,
especially at that precious early start of the go to market initiative or
even even a new company. Well, so I think we covered
that really well, and we talked about mindset. Do you wanna talk about
messaging for a bit as part of your framework? Well yeah. So so
(16:44):
part of, a a a critical part of
of getting that initial traction and finding those
the the right initial people is starting to is is figuring out
how to communicate what it is you do. And
and this is very much of a back and forth. This is a a very
kind of a organic sort of experience, and there's a fair amount
(17:07):
of, dialogue and interaction that needs to take
place if you're gonna do this well. You have to find ways, and I and
I mentioned this early on is, like, a lot of a lot of founders, a
lot of people with a good idea will wanna completely build that
idea before they set it out into the open.
And that's almost always a mistake because that
(17:28):
fear that someone else is gonna take and run with that idea is overblown.
And instead, what you do is if you can get out in front of other
people and say, hey. This is what I'm cooking up. Then,
you you can get a lot of very important feedback. And
so, you know, from a messaging standpoint, this is where
this whole notion of discovery comes in. It's such an important part of it of
(17:51):
the process. And that is, how do you get in front of people? You know,
who how do you identify them? And I talk about this a little bit, you
know, fair amount in the book. How do you identify the right early adopters?
And then and then how do you conduct a conversation
that's productive for both you and for them? And
and so one of the things I would say, right out of the gate,
(18:13):
is when you have something to show a
customer, in the very beginning, you
probably don't wanna show them anything. You wanna just talk to them and say, hey.
This is what I'm thinking about doing, blah blah blah. And if you talk to
the right people, they're gonna start to weigh in and say, well, here's something you
you think about. Here's something else you have to think about. And then what you
(18:34):
might do in that same idea and this does build to the point of messaging,
because it's gonna help you figure out what it is you actually wanna say
as you move forward in your in your in the sales process and
with the next the next prospect that you talk to. And that
is you wanna go to the customer or your prospect or whomever
you're you're having these discovery conversations with and show
(18:56):
them something that's almost intentionally imperfect.
Yes. And and and give them something that's really
rudimentary, or give them something that's got flaws. And so
don't build. I often say don't build. Right?
Build, you know, create something in PowerPoints or create something
that's on sketches or use, I
(19:19):
I even hesitate to tell you to use Figma or something like that because it's
just too much effort. Yeah. But in the beginning, you what you wanna do is
put something in front of them that says, oh, this is this is
crap. And I can and and and that gives them the
freedom to say, you know, and you'd and, you know, to
say, oh, you got this wrong, or you really need to do this, or you're
(19:39):
missing this thing, or I like this, but you know? And and when
you can do that, then you can come back to them
again with the next iteration, and you've incorporated
a lot of their new ideas. And not only do they see that, oh, this
person's making progress. And they but they also they listen to
me, and, oh, I'm sort of bought into this
(20:02):
idea because, you know, they're making the thing that I'm telling them to make.
And so you're kind of you know, if you're talking to the right
people, then you're almost creating
they're they're they're helping you to create that product. And as they
do, they're invested. And so at some point, they're
gonna say, oh, I I need this. Right? And I
(20:24):
could use this, and then and then you're off to the now now
you're off to the races. Absolutely. Now it is such a great
point. I've got a funny one for you, Brendan. I was
doing a project for Adobe, and I've been building whiteboards for
sellers for years for exactly as you say. You know,
you show up, but nothing has to be hard coated. It's even nice
(20:47):
when it's kinda rough around the edges, like like a whiteboard with stick
figures, etcetera. Oh, yeah. Sure. So so you can drive
more engagement. But I had this ex Adobe executives, like, going,
Bruce, we've got the best software and the best
designers in the world. Why in the hell would we
ever let our sellers whiteboard in front of a customer?
(21:09):
And, Brendan, I told him this story. I told him this story, but I've
done a ton of work with Microsoft. Microsoft even built a
piece of software to turn their
websites into, sketches, sketch
looking Yeah. So they could test them for improvement. Because when you come
to customers with something that's really super duper glossy,
(21:32):
they kinda turn off. You know? They they you know, you're not open. You know?
They they they might assume. Yeah. They don't wanna say anything bad because you've already
kind of done it. You know? So show up more more
inclusive, more inviting, little bit of a canvas, and and
that's how you can create that engagement. Yeah. Yeah.
And that's and that's and that's especially true in when you're when you're
(21:54):
trying to get traction early on. Right? When
you you don't ex and you don't exactly know what the product is. The product's
in, you know, in a in a state of flux. It's still
you know, it could go this way. It could go that way, and that's
where that's where, you know, having a bunch of conversations
with a bunch of people that are, you know, either in
(22:16):
or, adjacent to the market you're in is is
just so critical. Great. Great. Great.
Hey. Why don't we, turn the corner and talk a little bit about a couple
of other dimensions, alignment and agreement?
Yeah. So so,
so a natural and the the thing about this is, you know, this is kind
(22:39):
of a natural progression. You go and and then this whole idea of of
mindset is mindset to messaging to alignment to
agreement. It's it just there should be a natural flow to it. And the idea,
again, behind this is if you're if you're someone
that's that's, you know, of a technical nature or an
operational nature or new at sales or sales
(23:01):
isn't your primary responsibility, you find
this this allows you it it it has a natural
flow to it. And the idea is is you you you start to
have these early conversations with people, and and they're
very interactive. And they should always be very interactive, and and there's a lot to
(23:22):
the whole discovery process, how to how to how to manage a
a conversation, how to have a series of like, I I actually have
a a discovery documents that I, you know, that you can work from.
So you can kind of you can kind of have a strategy on how
to cover your key you know, make sure you uncover the key things you wanna
learn. And, and then what happens
(23:45):
is that you you'll get to the point where you'll start to see
natural alignment with your customer. Your customer the person
you're talking to, you're start gonna start to see a lot of, oh, I get,
you know, I get it. And or, yeah. This makes sense. Or yeah.
Yes. Yes. And you'll and and so when you get to that point, what you're
doing is you're really you're you're really
(24:08):
you're you're self identifying who is a good
prospect. This is why it's important to have a lot of different
conversations with a lot of different people because, a, it helps
you to further understand, you know, what's the scope of
your application or your solution and and what things are you you
know, what features and functions and and and obstacles
(24:29):
and constraints you have to contend with. And so you can
address them during early stages before you're you've hard coded
everything into the solution, whatever that happens to be, but it
also kind of naturally lends itself to a a a
purchase to the there's gonna be a point where the
customer says, oh, I need this. And if you're having
(24:51):
enough conversations, then a certain number of customers, a certain number of prospects
are gonna are gonna get to the point where they say, oh, yeah. I get
this. This is what I want. Yeah. You're you're on you're on track.
Or or they're gonna say, if you're talking in
the right, like, neighborhood, you know, of people in the right
constituents, so to speak, you're gonna get the point where they're gonna
(25:13):
say, the I see what you're doing here. This person
would use this. You should talk to that so and so. And so at that
point, you're getting a a warm introduction to someone somewhere else,
and that sort of thing. And so, the this whole alignment thing
is kind of a natural consequence. An agreement is a natural
consequence of this the the process you're going through.
(25:37):
And it lends itself to you know, for engineers or anyone else, you know,
someone who's not naturally a sales born salesperson, if you will,
it it you you have a lot of the right skills.
And and in some cases, you know, a
non salesperson is especially equipped
because they're technically knowledgeable. They're they
(25:59):
are an expert in certain areas. And one of the things you're gonna see in
in the course of the these discovery conversations is you're gonna see a
lot of the same patterns are gonna arise. You're gonna you're
gonna hear if you're doing it right and you're talking to the right people,
you're gonna hear the same sort of problems arise. Oh, I have this problem. That's
then you're on the right track. Or, oh, I this this this can
(26:22):
save me a lot of money. And and and and then the next question is,
really? How much? Like, how how, like,
why would this save you money? And they start to explain why, and now you're
backing into or or you're you're stepping into,
the value proposition. You're able to say, oh, like, if
it saves you x, then I can charge, you know, 30% of
(26:45):
x, and it makes sense for you. And so when they come back and they
say, alright. How much is this? And you already know it cost it saves them
a $100,000 a year. You could send them a sell them a license for 20,000,
and you know that they'd be they it'd be it'd be
foolish for them not to sign up. That's great, Brandon.
And he and, I love your point around just getting enough at bats
(27:07):
because, you know, you're get you're gonna start swinging it out of the park because
you're just gonna learn along the way. I do the same thing when I help
organizations craft their their narrative. You know, first, I talk to
everybody involved in the go to market team and get their perspectives on
that. But then we we craft and then we go test. And and
normally, after I test it, say, up to 10 times, it starts
(27:29):
to starts to get dialed in, and then you can start, you know,
repeating that and and and getting everybody else on that
wavelength as you you hire your sellers and and get people
up to speed. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it and Mhmm.
And you'll start to see that sort of momentum. Well, this has been a
great discussion so far, Brennan, on how to win
(27:52):
early adopters faster. And and back to your your
model, you know, we looked at, you know, the the mindset,
the messaging, the alignment, and agreement that
really gets the ball rolling where you need lots of that batch and and where
you can start to dial things in as you talked about for for all the
wonderful reasons. So why don't we,
(28:14):
break here? Because I know people can grab your fabulous book.
And how can people get in touch with you, Brendan, just to
carry the dialogue further and principally get your help
in knocking down some early wins? Oh, well,
thank you for asking. So you can, reach me
at, Brendan at Brendan McAdams dot com.
(28:37):
And, and what I typically do is you know, my
specialty is work with early stage, companies, companies that are
working, that are looking to accelerate their sales. That
could be early stage founders, especially in health tech. That's I have a lot
of background in health tech. And then, yeah, and then we can set
up initial discovery call, you know, a 30 minute chat and see where it
(28:59):
goes from there, and it's so it's you can obviously LinkedIn.
You can connect with me via LinkedIn as well, but Brendan McAdams.
So it's Brendan McAdams dotcom, and it's Brendan at Brendan McAdams dot com. And
that's Brendan with an n. McAdams for everybody. McAdams is m
c a d a m s. Brendan and Yeah. We've got it.
Scottish. Alright. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
(29:24):
Yeah. You must be tearing off my name, Bruce. I I've got a little bit
of Scottish blood, I think. So, anyways, we can we can be friends, Brendan,
for sure. Certainly. Well, thanks so much, Brennan. This has been really
valuable. I hope people grab your book, and and that'll just give them the
juice and the mindset to kick off this whole, thing and and
be very successful with their new go to market initiative. Well yeah. And if
(29:46):
and if if you email me and, and mention the podcast, I'll just send
you a PDF of it if you want. Sweet. Sweet. Yeah. That's generous
of you. And then everybody, you can find it on Amazon as well. And and
be like me, leave a nice review. Any any author loves
that. So, Brendan, it's been a great episode. Thank
you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very good, Bruce. And that was a
(30:08):
great conversation with Brendan McAdams. We talked about the importance of
mindset, messaging, alignment, and agreement when it comes to winning
those all important early adopters. Now his
practical advice on getting that batch through conversations
was probably one of my favorites because it allows you to refine your messaging
and your offering with with valuable feedback. And
(30:30):
I also appreciated his point about embracing healthy, not
selling, having that mindset, and finding that
incredibly valuable. One of my favorite takeaways was to
show up with ideas and assets that are just a little bit rough around the
edges. It invites collaboration, builds buy in, and
helps you find the right fit with your customers early on.
(30:53):
So if you like this episode, please like and subscribe to the ValuePro
Show. And if you're feeling kind, leave a review so others
can find and enjoy it too. And until next time, keep showing up
with value.
Welcome to the value pro show where value pros get value
ready.
Hi. My name is Bruce Shearer, the host of the value pro show. In this
episode, we are talking with Brendan McAdams. Brendan is a
seasoned b to b sales expert and fellow author who helps
early stage startups and founders accelerate their sales success.
(00:23):
His experience and advice relate to any team focused on early go
to market success. Now Brennan's newest book, Sales
Launch, Win Your Early Adopters Fast, delivers
actionable insights and strategies to help go to market teams
and entrepreneurs land critical early customers. If
you've struggled to find the right customers or want to accelerate your go to
(00:45):
market success, this episode is for you.
Well, Brendan, thanks so much for joining the ValuePro Show. I'm so
excited for this episode. I, personally read
your book, early release copy of the book, and thank you so
much for sharing that with me. And boy, oh, boy, I
Brendan, it it just, profoundly struck me
(01:09):
because I've started a new firm, and I'm trying to win
customers faster, hence the title of our episode, how to win early
adopters faster. And, and, also, you talked
about the importance of the founder in the book really kinda
owning the sales ball, not not delegating it off, not
outsourcing it, not not trying to, you know, run away from
(01:30):
it, but but truly embracing that as such a critical
success factor in growing your new business.
And, of course, you and I talked about that in relation to
any new go to market initiative. You know, even if
you're, you know, Hewlett Packard, for example, you're a small team, new
storage solution, you need to hit the market and do that right. You
(01:52):
need early adopters faster. So it's not just for
startups. It's for entrepreneurs within an organization
that go to market team that really wants go to market success.
And you've, again, written this fantastic book,
Sales Launch, Win Your Early Adopters Fast
and, by Brennan McAdams. It's out on Amazon. I
(02:15):
encourage everyone to go grab a copy. And, one
thing I loved about your book the most, Brennan, is how short it
is. You know, it's it's not 80,000 words of
bloat and and everything else. It's it's
like the book I wrote. It's light, rich in nutrient, and
very light in bad calories. Yeah. It well,
(02:37):
it's, the idea behind it is, you know, a lot of the
people don't have that much free time to absorb
something, and there's so many there's so many distractions
and obligations that a founder has that that a a any kind
anyone that runs a business has. And so I wanted to have
something that someone could very quickly absorb, you know, consume,
(03:00):
absorb, and then pass on to somebody else. So that was the that was the
logic behind it. Oh, I love it. Have you ever heard the the
phrase busier than a one armed carpenter? Yes. Yeah. One of
my old bosses used to love to say that, you know, busier than a one
armed carpenter. And and, you know, when you're on some sort of a new
go to market initiative, you are busier than a one armed
(03:22):
carpenter. Who has time to read a big, huge, thick book? And
and so, your your insightfulness
and, courtesy in not wasting time
in just getting to the points, is fantastic
in this book. Appreciate that. Thanks. Oh, thanks. Well, tell us a
little bit about you. And most importantly, Brendan, why are you
(03:45):
so darn passionate about helping go to
market teams acquire new customers faster?
Well, I spent a lot of time in the kind of the startup space
and in the, in the, in the tech
space and, with even with larger companies that are
launching a new product and so forth. And in the course of all that,
(04:07):
I ran over an accelerator for a while, and I've, taught a lot
of early stage startups and founders and so forth. And there
are certain patterns keep emerging, and and bad bad
habits keep emerging, and that I'd that I'd spot. And,
and so I I really wanted to spend a little time focusing
on trying to simplify and kind of demystify
(04:30):
some of those those those obstacles that get in the way for a
lot of people that are trying to adopt trying to get adoption
of a new of a new idea, a new product,
and and how to make that happen, more effectively,
less painfully. That's where I was aiming for. I love it,
man. I can tell also, Vernon, you got a heart for sales. You wanna
(04:52):
help people. Have you I don't know if you heard this phrase during the
pandemic. It was called, helping is the new selling. Oh,
really? Okay. No. I didn't yes. But, no. I can tell you you
wrote that book for good reason. You want you know, you've seen the pain. You've
seen the, the frustrating mistakes, and, you're
trying to help people get ahead through that book. So so it's wonderful.
(05:14):
Well, let's, let's turn the corner and just, you know,
as, any awesome consultant, you know, you you
bring a framework in in terms of how to help people, and
this is featured in your book. But can you, just give us a
flyover of, you know, how to win customers
faster, especially, you know, taking advantage of your
(05:36):
framework? And and, of course, we'll drill into a few of these pieces
here, but just give us a an overview of this, how you came
to it. Yeah. So so first of all, there there are a number of components
to it. The the the the former the first the first few, components
in the framework are really focused on getting initial
momentum and and traction and and
(05:59):
and getting, and getting the point of a yes. And then the the
latter half are, how do you scale? So so I thought that
for for this conversation with any kind of an enterprise of
any size that's looking to get, traction around new idea, we would
focus on that first half of them, the framework, which is around mindset,
messaging, alignment, agreement. And the the idea
(06:21):
behind that, Bruce, what I'm what I'm really trying to get at
is the first thing you have to do is is is have the right
frame of mind. This is particularly important with founders and entrepreneurs.
And a lot of times, those those people are are not
salespeople. They're they may be technical. They may have some sort of a kind of
a, operational background or so forth. And so
(06:42):
sales isn't their natural,
you know, kind of footprint
or their or their stance. They're not focused on sales. And in a lot of
cases, they view sales with at a distance.
You know, it's manipulative. It's not pleasant. You know,
it's a it it's a necessary evil kind of a thing.
(07:05):
And and so the first thing I try and do is is get them to
think about sales in a very different way, which is Mhmm. That
it's really not about trying to force someone into a decision.
It's it's much more about trying to help people,
and it's, and and see if there's a fit. So it's really
much more it's as much detective work and
(07:28):
analytical work than it is, you
know, selling. It's you know, you're not really trying to convince them within so
much as get them to understand and figure out whether or not there's
a, an opportunity to work together. And
the the the kind of the the pleasant surprise there is if you're
an operational person, if you're a a technical person, you've got a, you know,
(07:50):
engineering mindset and so forth, you're you actually have a lot of skills
and capabilities that lend themselves to being good at
that process. If you don't think of it as sales, if you think of it
as trying to do discovery and figure out where the fit
is and where the problems are and that sort of thing. And by doing
so, that takes a lot of the burden off the the
(08:13):
the the person, handling or or driving that
new idea, that new product, the new company forward. So
that's that's where you start is with, you know, getting people to think
about things a little, differently than they do. And that's that's
a surprisingly big challenge for a lot of a lot of folks.
They don't they don't wanna go and meet with people. They
(08:35):
don't wanna talk to people. They wanna sit at their desk or a
cafe or wherever and build, you know, and create.
And you get that. I get that totally, but at the same
time, the the chances of creating the right
thing are limited if you're not if you're
not having conversations with a lot of people, early on
(08:57):
to get feedback and perspectives and understand what the,
you know, what the obstacles are and also understand, like, the the
constraints and the kind of the the the lay of the land
of the industry or the problem you're trying to solve. You
bet. You bet. There's a lot to unpack on this,
Brendan, for sure, you know, because that is the biggest rock, and you
(09:19):
highlighted that in the book, mindset. Brendan, an an
another friend of mine, fellow author, Mark Hunter, was on,
the Value Pro Show, fairly recently. People could find that episode.
But, god, he really nailed it, I felt, Brendon. He said
sales is not something you do to someone.
It's something you do for someone. Right. Yeah. And
(09:41):
that that shift in mindset, you know, that you're you're being
valuable to someone else that that you highlight in the book really
well. It's just absolutely critical. And,
I've got this mentality that if if you're a leader, you're in sales.
If you're influencing anyone to join your your cause, to
to offer funding in your cause, to work on your
(10:03):
cause, You know, you're you're you're influencing others. You
know, by definition, you're you're
in sales in my opinion. Right. But but a lot of people have
this really weird, hang up
when it comes to selling what they have to offer to
other parties externally. It's but it's it's not even
(10:26):
weird. It's sort of it's been kinda built into the kind of our
you know, into the into our culture to some degree. There you know, you know,
there have been a lot of bad salespeople out there, a lot of very manipulative
people, and there's a lot, you know, the, there's, you know,
movies and so forth. I mean, Glengarry Glen Ross, the you're right.
Rain, you know, 1st place. Right? Cadillac. 2nd place, steak
(10:48):
knives. Right? Every every salesperson Coffee is for closers. You know?
Right. Right. Right. Right. So that those sorts of things, you
know, perpetuate themselves. But, but, yeah, I
I I always think of sales as helping people make a decision. Right? It's like
and the decision may very well be, no. This isn't
for me. And and you as a founder, as a the person
(11:11):
driving the idea, the entrepreneur, the the person that's running the business,
the the the idea, it may be very well it's you have
the same ability. No. I'm not selling this to you. You're not a good fit
for me. And and if you're the founder and you can walk
away from a deal because you don't think this is the right customer for you,
they're gonna be a big burden. They're gonna they're gonna be a resource hog. They
(11:35):
they they don't understand what the product does. They're not sophisticated enough. They're they're
gonna they you know? Whatever the reason is, if you have that ability to
also say no, then that's puts you on a much more of an even
playing field. And so you you can start to think about
selling much less as this manipulative thing you're
doing, but but instead looking for the right sort of
(11:57):
partners. And, frankly, what I and I just got
done with, being involved in a a webinar coaching
session where where that was one of the
things that came up over and over again is how do you get the first
customer? How do you get the first couple customers? And and they're you know? And
I I talked to one of my clients yesterday. Same thing. He's like,
(12:19):
just the first one. How do I get the first one? And so you know?
And you can but there are ways to do it. Absolutely.
And but what's the reward? Let's talk about the big why. So
you gotta get the mindset right. Get get past any hang ups you might
have about sales. But then what's the
reward? Why do you need those early customers?
(12:42):
Well, the there's any so many
people, you know, again, you know, you're getting getting them to
think outside the box in terms of, hey. Sales isn't this this,
this, necessary evil, but it's actually something that
can advance my career. Right? For example,
many of the best CEOs, you know, and most famous
(13:04):
CEOs are salespeople. And so you you if you
wanna be if if you're a founder, if you're running a business, if you're running
a division inside a company, being able to sell and and
and, you know, and and understand a a sales situation
and break things down and, and work with a
customer around or, or or whomever is looking to make
(13:26):
a decision, that's a skill that that
that, a, keeps you in front of the keeps you running your own company.
It, allows you it gives you opportunities for advancement, those sorts
of things. But more specifically and more immediately,
you know, getting their first sale, their first key sales
(13:47):
can be instrumental to driving product direction.
It can be it it gets you your first, your first,
references and your ROI, you know, ROI
and case studies and testimonials. Those things are invaluable.
It it it's motivating, right, for your team as you grow your
(14:07):
team to having a cuss that first win, the first
customers to work with. Those are all kind of fundamentally
important. And then, of course, you know, one of the things I talk about a
lot is there's a there's a tremendous,
glamour with running with, fundraising.
Right? With with for a start up company to be able to go
(14:28):
and get funding, right, from a VC. But the the
attractiveness of getting sales first before
you go after funding is you, a, you get much
better terms. Right? Because you've got a revenue stream. It's much more
likely to get funded, and you're gonna get it under better terms. And
secondarily, you you may need less money. You may
(14:50):
need no money. Right? And and that allows the people inside the
company to own more of their own business as opposed to selling
it to a VC. I mean, VCs play a very valuable role.
You know, investors play a very valuable role, and there are certain businesses where you
need a lot of money to scale, Uber, for example, or
Airbnb. But but there are a lot of other businesses where, you
(15:13):
know, you can boot strap it to, you know, 1,000,000 of dollars, especially if
you can get some of those first early customers to to to get
that flywheel going. Excellent. Excellent. Yep. So
those are some of the big wins. And, also, gosh. I
as part of my storyline in terms of getting a great narrative
together, I think you'll probably cover some of that messaging. But
(15:35):
when you're landing deals, and everything's
economically starting to spin right, life
gets a lot more fun. A lot a lot less stress. Yeah. Or
or good stress, invigorating stress. Well, ultimately, that's one of the
things is, like, revenue solves a lot of problems. Right? There's
nothing quite like revenue to, a, it validates your product.
(15:58):
Right? It it's a it's valid it's you're on the right when someone's writing
you a check or paying you for something that you built, then you know you're
on the right track. Right? Yeah. Yeah. That's the that's the only you know,
telling your your mom telling you she likes your product is nothing. Right?
Right? But but having a customer that you don't know very well
write a check and pay pay you money,
(16:21):
That's validation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that's delivering
value. That's the exchange. That's that's the lifeblood of the business,
especially at that precious early start of the go to market initiative or
even even a new company. Well, so I think we covered
that really well, and we talked about mindset. Do you wanna talk about
messaging for a bit as part of your framework? Well yeah. So so
(16:44):
part of, a a a critical part of
of getting that initial traction and finding those
the the right initial people is starting to is is figuring out
how to communicate what it is you do. And
and this is very much of a back and forth. This is a a very
kind of a organic sort of experience, and there's a fair amount
(17:07):
of, dialogue and interaction that needs to take
place if you're gonna do this well. You have to find ways, and I and
I mentioned this early on is, like, a lot of a lot of founders, a
lot of people with a good idea will wanna completely build that
idea before they set it out into the open.
And that's almost always a mistake because that
(17:28):
fear that someone else is gonna take and run with that idea is overblown.
And instead, what you do is if you can get out in front of other
people and say, hey. This is what I'm cooking up. Then,
you you can get a lot of very important feedback. And
so, you know, from a messaging standpoint, this is where
this whole notion of discovery comes in. It's such an important part of it of
(17:51):
the process. And that is, how do you get in front of people? You know,
who how do you identify them? And I talk about this a little bit, you
know, fair amount in the book. How do you identify the right early adopters?
And then and then how do you conduct a conversation
that's productive for both you and for them? And
and so one of the things I would say, right out of the gate,
(18:13):
is when you have something to show a
customer, in the very beginning, you
probably don't wanna show them anything. You wanna just talk to them and say, hey.
This is what I'm thinking about doing, blah blah blah. And if you talk to
the right people, they're gonna start to weigh in and say, well, here's something you
you think about. Here's something else you have to think about. And then what you
(18:34):
might do in that same idea and this does build to the point of messaging,
because it's gonna help you figure out what it is you actually wanna say
as you move forward in your in your in the sales process and
with the next the next prospect that you talk to. And that
is you wanna go to the customer or your prospect or whomever
you're you're having these discovery conversations with and show
(18:56):
them something that's almost intentionally imperfect.
Yes. And and and give them something that's really
rudimentary, or give them something that's got flaws. And so
don't build. I often say don't build. Right?
Build, you know, create something in PowerPoints or create something
that's on sketches or use, I
(19:19):
I even hesitate to tell you to use Figma or something like that because it's
just too much effort. Yeah. But in the beginning, you what you wanna do is
put something in front of them that says, oh, this is this is
crap. And I can and and and that gives them the
freedom to say, you know, and you'd and, you know, to
say, oh, you got this wrong, or you really need to do this, or you're
(19:39):
missing this thing, or I like this, but you know? And and when
you can do that, then you can come back to them
again with the next iteration, and you've incorporated
a lot of their new ideas. And not only do they see that, oh, this
person's making progress. And they but they also they listen to
me, and, oh, I'm sort of bought into this
(20:02):
idea because, you know, they're making the thing that I'm telling them to make.
And so you're kind of you know, if you're talking to the right
people, then you're almost creating
they're they're they're helping you to create that product. And as they
do, they're invested. And so at some point, they're
gonna say, oh, I I need this. Right? And I
(20:24):
could use this, and then and then you're off to the now now
you're off to the races. Absolutely. Now it is such a great
point. I've got a funny one for you, Brendan. I was
doing a project for Adobe, and I've been building whiteboards for
sellers for years for exactly as you say. You know,
you show up, but nothing has to be hard coated. It's even nice
(20:47):
when it's kinda rough around the edges, like like a whiteboard with stick
figures, etcetera. Oh, yeah. Sure. So so you can drive
more engagement. But I had this ex Adobe executives, like, going,
Bruce, we've got the best software and the best
designers in the world. Why in the hell would we
ever let our sellers whiteboard in front of a customer?
(21:09):
And, Brendan, I told him this story. I told him this story, but I've
done a ton of work with Microsoft. Microsoft even built a
piece of software to turn their
websites into, sketches, sketch
looking Yeah. So they could test them for improvement. Because when you come
to customers with something that's really super duper glossy,
(21:32):
they kinda turn off. You know? They they you know, you're not open. You know?
They they they might assume. Yeah. They don't wanna say anything bad because you've already
kind of done it. You know? So show up more more
inclusive, more inviting, little bit of a canvas, and and
that's how you can create that engagement. Yeah. Yeah.
And that's and that's and that's especially true in when you're when you're
(21:54):
trying to get traction early on. Right? When
you you don't ex and you don't exactly know what the product is. The product's
in, you know, in a in a state of flux. It's still
you know, it could go this way. It could go that way, and that's
where that's where, you know, having a bunch of conversations
with a bunch of people that are, you know, either in
(22:16):
or, adjacent to the market you're in is is
just so critical. Great. Great. Great.
Hey. Why don't we, turn the corner and talk a little bit about a couple
of other dimensions, alignment and agreement?
Yeah. So so,
so a natural and the the thing about this is, you know, this is kind
(22:39):
of a natural progression. You go and and then this whole idea of of
mindset is mindset to messaging to alignment to
agreement. It's it just there should be a natural flow to it. And the idea,
again, behind this is if you're if you're someone
that's that's, you know, of a technical nature or an
operational nature or new at sales or sales
(23:01):
isn't your primary responsibility, you find
this this allows you it it it has a natural
flow to it. And the idea is is you you you start to
have these early conversations with people, and and they're
very interactive. And they should always be very interactive, and and there's a lot to
(23:22):
the whole discovery process, how to how to how to manage a
a conversation, how to have a series of like, I I actually have
a a discovery documents that I, you know, that you can work from.
So you can kind of you can kind of have a strategy on how
to cover your key you know, make sure you uncover the key things you wanna
learn. And, and then what happens
(23:45):
is that you you'll get to the point where you'll start to see
natural alignment with your customer. Your customer the person
you're talking to, you're start gonna start to see a lot of, oh, I get,
you know, I get it. And or, yeah. This makes sense. Or yeah.
Yes. Yes. And you'll and and so when you get to that point, what you're
doing is you're really you're you're really
(24:08):
you're you're self identifying who is a good
prospect. This is why it's important to have a lot of different
conversations with a lot of different people because, a, it helps
you to further understand, you know, what's the scope of
your application or your solution and and what things are you you
know, what features and functions and and and obstacles
(24:29):
and constraints you have to contend with. And so you can
address them during early stages before you're you've hard coded
everything into the solution, whatever that happens to be, but it
also kind of naturally lends itself to a a a
purchase to the there's gonna be a point where the
customer says, oh, I need this. And if you're having
(24:51):
enough conversations, then a certain number of customers, a certain number of prospects
are gonna are gonna get to the point where they say, oh, yeah. I get
this. This is what I want. Yeah. You're you're on you're on track.
Or or they're gonna say, if you're talking in
the right, like, neighborhood, you know, of people in the right
constituents, so to speak, you're gonna get the point where they're gonna
(25:13):
say, the I see what you're doing here. This person
would use this. You should talk to that so and so. And so at that
point, you're getting a a warm introduction to someone somewhere else,
and that sort of thing. And so, the this whole alignment thing
is kind of a natural consequence. An agreement is a natural
consequence of this the the process you're going through.
(25:37):
And it lends itself to you know, for engineers or anyone else, you know,
someone who's not naturally a sales born salesperson, if you will,
it it you you have a lot of the right skills.
And and in some cases, you know, a
non salesperson is especially equipped
because they're technically knowledgeable. They're they
(25:59):
are an expert in certain areas. And one of the things you're gonna see in
in the course of the these discovery conversations is you're gonna see a
lot of the same patterns are gonna arise. You're gonna you're
gonna hear if you're doing it right and you're talking to the right people,
you're gonna hear the same sort of problems arise. Oh, I have this problem. That's
then you're on the right track. Or, oh, I this this this can
(26:22):
save me a lot of money. And and and and then the next question is,
really? How much? Like, how how, like,
why would this save you money? And they start to explain why, and now you're
backing into or or you're you're stepping into,
the value proposition. You're able to say, oh, like, if
it saves you x, then I can charge, you know, 30% of
(26:45):
x, and it makes sense for you. And so when they come back and they
say, alright. How much is this? And you already know it cost it saves them
a $100,000 a year. You could send them a sell them a license for 20,000,
and you know that they'd be they it'd be it'd be
foolish for them not to sign up. That's great, Brandon.
And he and, I love your point around just getting enough at bats
(27:07):
because, you know, you're get you're gonna start swinging it out of the park because
you're just gonna learn along the way. I do the same thing when I help
organizations craft their their narrative. You know, first, I talk to
everybody involved in the go to market team and get their perspectives on
that. But then we we craft and then we go test. And and
normally, after I test it, say, up to 10 times, it starts
(27:29):
to starts to get dialed in, and then you can start, you know,
repeating that and and and getting everybody else on that
wavelength as you you hire your sellers and and get people
up to speed. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it and Mhmm.
And you'll start to see that sort of momentum. Well, this has been a
great discussion so far, Brennan, on how to win
(27:52):
early adopters faster. And and back to your your
model, you know, we looked at, you know, the the mindset,
the messaging, the alignment, and agreement that
really gets the ball rolling where you need lots of that batch and and where
you can start to dial things in as you talked about for for all the
wonderful reasons. So why don't we,
(28:14):
break here? Because I know people can grab your fabulous book.
And how can people get in touch with you, Brendan, just to
carry the dialogue further and principally get your help
in knocking down some early wins? Oh, well,
thank you for asking. So you can, reach me
at, Brendan at Brendan McAdams dot com.
(28:37):
And, and what I typically do is you know, my
specialty is work with early stage, companies, companies that are
working, that are looking to accelerate their sales. That
could be early stage founders, especially in health tech. That's I have a lot
of background in health tech. And then, yeah, and then we can set
up initial discovery call, you know, a 30 minute chat and see where it
(28:59):
goes from there, and it's so it's you can obviously LinkedIn.
You can connect with me via LinkedIn as well, but Brendan McAdams.
So it's Brendan McAdams dotcom, and it's Brendan at Brendan McAdams dot com. And
that's Brendan with an n. McAdams for everybody. McAdams is m
c a d a m s. Brendan and Yeah. We've got it.
Scottish. Alright. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
(29:24):
Yeah. You must be tearing off my name, Bruce. I I've got a little bit
of Scottish blood, I think. So, anyways, we can we can be friends, Brendan,
for sure. Certainly. Well, thanks so much, Brennan. This has been really
valuable. I hope people grab your book, and and that'll just give them the
juice and the mindset to kick off this whole, thing and and
be very successful with their new go to market initiative. Well yeah. And if
(29:46):
and if if you email me and, and mention the podcast, I'll just send
you a PDF of it if you want. Sweet. Sweet. Yeah. That's generous
of you. And then everybody, you can find it on Amazon as well. And and
be like me, leave a nice review. Any any author loves
that. So, Brendan, it's been a great episode. Thank
you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very good, Bruce. And that was a
(30:08):
great conversation with Brendan McAdams. We talked about the importance of
mindset, messaging, alignment, and agreement when it comes to winning
those all important early adopters. Now his
practical advice on getting that batch through conversations
was probably one of my favorites because it allows you to refine your messaging
and your offering with with valuable feedback. And
(30:30):
I also appreciated his point about embracing healthy, not
selling, having that mindset, and finding that
incredibly valuable. One of my favorite takeaways was to
show up with ideas and assets that are just a little bit rough around the
edges. It invites collaboration, builds buy in, and
helps you find the right fit with your customers early on.
(30:53):
So if you like this episode, please like and subscribe to the ValuePro
Show. And if you're feeling kind, leave a review so others
can find and enjoy it too. And until next time, keep showing up
with value.
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