December 18, 2024 • 60 mins
For our final episode of season 8, we have agronomists Kyle Okke, Jason Hanson and Jeff Nagel on to discuss the economics of weed control for growers. They cover their major weed challenges and how additional inputs like machinery cost, fertility, and pest management are all factored into planning for ’25. Let’s wrap up this season by reflecting on ’24, and looking into ’25!
You can find Jason and Kyle on X at:
@rocknrollagrnmy and @okkefromuskogee
And find their podcast Agronomists Happy Hour at https://agronomistshappyhour.com/
And on X @AgHappyHour
You can find more information about Keystone Cooperative here:
Thank you all for another great season!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joe Ikley (00:06):
Welcome back to the war against weeds Podcast. I'm
Joe Ikley, extension WeedScientist at North Dakota State
University. My co host today isSarah Lancaster at Kansas State
University. Sarah, what's goingon in these Southern Great
Plains?
Sarah Lancaster (00:22):
We are getting some much needed rain on the
date of this recording Dr. Ikleyso I'm a happy camper.
Joe Ikley (00:29):
The date of recording, Weve got rain coming
and some other stuff we're notgoing to talk about.
Sarah Lancaster (00:35):
I don't like solid precipitation. You can
keep it.
Joe Ikley (00:39):
but we're here for weeds. We're not here for
precipitation. So I think we'vegot a good podcast today. Got a
couple of good guests, and we'regoing to go around the horn,
introduce them, but a little bitof setup here. We're generally
going to talk about some someconcerns that agronomists might
have. We kind of started this asa concerns during tight margin
or times of tight margins, butthought would be more
(01:02):
appropriate to open up togeneral concerns and then, and
then, as margins get tight, kindof focusing in how that might
change things, about how, howthese great people think about
their their roles in their dailylives. So we're gonna go around
the horn and just gonnaintroduce them and the order
that they logged on here. And sofirst we have Jeff Nagel, Jeff,
welcome.
Jeff Nagel (01:21):
Thank you, Joe, glad to be on today.
Joe Ikley (01:24):
And so what we'd like to do is, have you just kind of
describe, you know, the role ofwho you work with, and maybe
we'll start with the major cropsin your geography as well.
Jeff Nagel (01:32):
Yeah. So I work as an agronomist with Keystone
cooperative, and I have fourcounterparts, so we have a we
cover geography in Indiana,Ohio, Michigan, some into
Illinois, and I particularlywork in northwest, West Central
and the central part of Indiana.
Joe Ikley (01:48):
All right, perfect. And the next two have been on
before, but we will reintroducethem. So we'll start with Kyle
Okke,
Kyle Okke (01:58):
well, thanks for having me, guys. So like Joe
said. Kyle Okke, I am anindependent crop consultant in
southwestern North Dakota, andkind of work all over that area,
at at different capacities, withfarmers and some with retailers.
And, yeah, main crops we got outhere wheat that makes up, like
(02:23):
over half of it. Then it's corn,and then it's a whole
smorgasbord of other things,like lentils and chickpeas and
field peas and flax and soybeansand sunflowers. And I'm missing
a lot, but it's, it's a bunch ofminor crops, is what we call
them. Everyone else's cover cropis our cash crop, but they're in
(02:44):
small acres.
Joe Ikley (02:47):
All right, good deal. Welcome back. And then the third
person we have on today is JasonHanson. Jason, welcome back.
Jason Hanson (02:54):
Yeah. Thanks Joe and Sarah for having us on
again. I work as an independentcrop consultant up in the
northeast part of North Dakota,I work with Kyle a lot. We do a
lot of stuff together. Work withpredominantly farmers and some
retailers in some capacity. Mymajor crops are spring wheat,
soybeans, canola, those are mytop three. And then it's barley,
(03:18):
edible beans, corn, field peasis what I had last year. And I
sometimes will run into othercrops like sunflowers, but those
are, I guess, seven crops thislast year that I mainly worked
with.
Joe Ikley (03:31):
Now it's intend to be moving target based on the year
we have and the markets we havearound here, well again. So
thank you, everyone for forcoming on that short
introduction, I think, to kindof get a further introduction
before we really delve intothings. And maybe we'll go in
reverse order this time. So wekind of mentioned the major
crops. So I just want to knowthe major weed challenges you're
(03:54):
dealing with in your geography.And so Jason, we'll go ahead and
start with you and go in reverseorder this time, sure,
Jason Hanson (04:02):
for the most part, kochia is King out in our part
of the world. We had a wet yearthis year, so there was a couple
other things that showed up inmore frequency. We're just
newbies to this waterhemp thing,but it has definitely showed up
a lot more, wild oats, wildbuckwheat, in some cases,
marestail and volunteer Canolais probably one of my bigger
(04:25):
weeds, so one of my crops isalso one of my main weed
sources.
Joe Ikley (04:31):
Yeah, it's always fun to talk about volunteer canola
as a weed, until you go askingthem for some money. So you got
to be I have to walk that linequite carefully, sure and Kyle,
what about down in yourgeography?
Kyle Okke (04:47):
It's it's similar to Jason. It really depends. By the
farm, what I've noticed, ifthey're a dominant wheat
rotation, we deal with a lot ofwild oat, though it's grasses
mostly, wild oat has become ourbiggest issue. So Wild Oats,
green, yellow foxtail andbarnyard grass probably our
biggest issues, broadleaf weeds,it's kochia and marestail hands
(05:11):
down.
Joe Ikley (05:13):
So Kyle, do have to ask, I know we found a couple of
decently loaded fields in Olivercounty with waterhemp, nothing
suspicious popping up in yourgeography,
Kyle Okke (05:25):
nothing that I've seen personally the last few
years. I will share. There wasone isolated case where I'm I
never had it identified. Didn'thave the tools at the time. But
there was a field that wasplanted to canola harvested. It
had always been custom harvestedfrom a crew in South Dakota. It
had a very funny looking pigweedwith the extended petioles, the
(05:49):
water marks on the leaves, allthat. And it was from a
glyphosate burned on it. I waslike glyphosate, and I think a
little bit of Dicamba burned onapplication in the fall, and it
didn't get it, but that rotationhas always had a heavy Liberty
canola with wheat in rotation,and it's never grown out of
(06:09):
proportion. And I've only seenit just that one one fall, but I
don't doubt it's around
Sarah Lancaster (06:18):
Kyle Joe likes to blame me for all of those
sites in in North Dakota. So,you know, I'll throw myself
under the bus before he has achance to do it.
Jason Hanson (06:29):
Well, the Manitobans blame North Dakotan,
so that's the deal right?
Joe Ikley (06:39):
Hey, the one good news. I found with with the
Palmer that I blame, that thePalmer Amaranth I blame Sarah on
is still pretty sensitive toglufosinate, so the populations
we've been able to test thatthat's held up for us. But yeah,
waterhemp, that's that'sstarting to change in the
eastern part of the state, butpigweed is probably a good
(07:00):
transition to go over to Jeffand talk about the major weeds
in your geography. Yeah,
Jeff Nagel (07:04):
so we have our footprint is mainly corn and
Joe Ikley (07:04):
since we're already down the pathway of blaming
soybeans, with some we but, butJoe and Sarah waterhemp is the
other people for things, so Iknow not blaming Jeff here, but
I was gonna say I was in so Iwas at Purdue from 12 through
driver weed, and it's a gamechanger. So I came back this
area in 1996 and that was whenwe started having issues with
pursuit, that was the mainherbicide use, until it didn't
18, I guess from my years downthere. And when I got there in
work anymore with resistance.And so roundup came on the
(07:26):
market about that time period,and was really, you know,
something that was very helpful,until it didn't work anymore
either. So it is, it is a changein is what's driving our weed
control programs? We have giantragweeds, another one that we
deal with in areas, marestales,you know, the other broadleave.
But by far, waterhemp is themost expensive weed to control.
(07:49):
We do have some Palmer Amaranthin the northwest part of
2012 we weren't really talkingtoo much about waterhemp. Then
Indiana. Hasn't spread as muchas we thought it might have, but
that waterhemp is abouteverywhere, and probably worse
on the west side of Indiana,going in Illinois and then, but
it's showing up more in theeastern part of the state of
Indiana and into Michigan andOhio also. So it's what drives
(08:12):
our weed control programs, andit's causing farmers to spend a
lot of money on that weed
(08:38):
this guy named Bryan Youngshowed up about 2014 and that
was, seems like the only weed wetalked about from that 14 until
the time I left. So, yeah, well,
Jeff Nagel (08:49):
it hasn't changed, Joe, it's still it's still
there, all
Joe Ikley (08:55):
right. So I think that kind of sets the stage on
some crops and some weeds. Butbefore we really get into some
of the other questions we reallywant to delve into today. The
other thing I just want to setup, since you guys are
consultants and work not just inweed control, is the other
things that keep you up at nightthat you have to deal with. And
this sounds like we were allbroad leafs and grasses, but
annual weeds, so maybe this iswhere we might differentiate a
(09:18):
little bit about the otheragronomic challenges, and we'll
go ahead and serpentine backagain. So starting with, it's
like a fantasy draft here. We'regoing to start with Jeff again.
Jeff Nagel (09:28):
Well, the other agronomic challenges, I think,
as we go into the 25 season,it's a little bit, come on, it's
a little bit profitabilitydriven, right? So growers are,
you know, thinking about withcommodity prices down, we're
pretty fortunate that we hadsome pretty good corn and
soybean yields as a whole, whichBushels has helped a bunch. But
(09:50):
obviously the the input cost orweighing on growers mind is
commodity prices have have comedown some with it. So I think
growers. Looking at that cropbudget and how they're going to
allocate dollars. So the fall,we had a lot of conversations
are, you know, at the retaillocations around, you know, the
(10:12):
input cost on dry fertilizer andlimestone applications to kind
of set that up and and evenbeginning to think a little bit
of thinking about the 25 season,and some of the challenges we're
seeing around waterhemp, andactually maybe need to increase
spending for the weed controlthere. So it's kind of balancing
that inputs between thedifferent areas, and that's
(10:33):
that's weighing on growers mindsas we head into '25 Yeah.
Joe Ikley (10:37):
The other thing I want to ask you about, Jeff, so
this is a observation from afar,but our pathology colleagues can
trip a lot, and so, know, youguys have some tar spot across
the state. Is one of the manydisease challenges. And how does
that weigh in people's minds? Isthat just kind of a we see it so
we know it's there. Is that kindof a really big deal for you
guys in your geography?
Jeff Nagel (10:58):
No, it's a big deal. And that's, a, that's a great
point. And I call it the waterhemp, of the of the weeds, of
the of the diseases, right? Soit that has been a game changer,
too. So this year we had it inmultiple areas. And you know,
once it's kind of there it can,you got the inoculum for future
years. So that's a, that's agreat point, Joe and Sarah,
(11:20):
because that is a spin. We, I'dsay a lot of progressive growers
are, we're putting onreproductive stage fungicide
applications, you know, drivenprimarily by Grey leaf spot and
northern corn leaf blight. Buttar spot is, is one that can
escalate with time and andreally take yield away pretty
quick. So we had cases this yearof, you know, some, you know,
(11:43):
farmers may experience in thatfor the first time and
experiencing 30 to 40 Buchellosses that they didn't treat.
So definitely some hybridtolerance differences, but it is
a factor, and most farmers arebudgeting at a fungicide
application. And there's evenrare situations where two might
be needed and that we, I thinkwe're still learning. We're
(12:06):
about seven years in a tar spot.A lot of good work coming out of
the Midwestern universities, on,on managing that, but we're
still learning. So it is, it isa definitely spend that the
growers maybe not have spent thepast. And sometimes may take two
applications,
Joe Ikley (12:24):
and I'm just, I'm kind of tuned into that one. So
I've got a some pathologytraining. But B, North Dakota
finally made the tar spot map,and we did so with about 10
counties.
Kyle Okke (12:33):
I don't know if that's a fist pump.
Sarah Lancaster (12:38):
That's not a game you want to be in dude.
Jeff Nagel (12:43):
take it seriously, because they can take bushels
off pretty quick.
Joe Ikley (12:47):
Yeah, there's one we found pretty late in kind of a
late season survey, since we hadsuch a long fall. But I know our
our pathologist is quitenervous, because everything
we've been told is that thisdisease that loves cool weather,
and we got that in abundance, ifnothing else,
Sarah Lancaster (13:02):
the the corn disease on the the radar here
this year is, no, I'm gonnaforget the name of it, crap.
It's a virus. It's vectored by alittle leaf hopper.
Joe Ikley (13:16):
Was gonna say it's a new virus, isn't it?
Jeff Nagel (13:18):
Corn stunt. Yeah, yeah. So we had our we had our
first field this year. Sarah ofcorn stunt identified. So it was
pretty minor, but the firsttime, I didn't even know what it
was. I heard about it some, butwe had it for the first time.
Sarah Lancaster (13:32):
So my my curiosity about Joe's question,
the initial question. So if youwere to rank like weed
management compared to otherpest management, like,
importance wise, where would itrank, and then what would it
look like? Is like a percentageof the crop production budget?
(13:53):
Does that make sense?
Jeff Nagel (13:57):
I can only speak for my area, because I don't deal
with the same weeds Kyle andJason and Jason have there, but
so, so waterhemp is, kind of,is, is an expensive weed to
control because there's severalsites of action it's resistant
to So, so actually, you know,Purdue's doing some screening on
(14:19):
Some of the soybean chemistriesnow, and it's a little scary on
what they're finding on some ofthose things. So, you know, you
start, we start to see lessefficacy out of the hppds and
corn. We're seeing less efficacyout of saying elist one on
soybeans, and our tools arenarrower. And so how do you
(14:40):
manage that? Well, you spendmore on residual herbicide. You
may be doing more tank mixing ofmultiple sites of action, which
adds cost. And so that is, thatis a waterhemp is, is an
expensive weed to control, andthen, and then, so that ranks
pretty high on weed control asfar as an input cost. And then
the tar spot brings another. Areanother piece into that that's
(15:02):
also a pretty good investment.So those two waterhemp and tar
spot makes, makes those inputson the crop protection side
pretty significant of a budget.
Joe Ikley (15:13):
And those are all separate passes too, would be my
understanding, correct. So youhave that factor, that cost and
All right, so the Sarah's bonusquestion in mind, we'll go to
Kyle now, if you can follow thestring of what the original
question I asked was, yep.
Kyle Okke (15:33):
So you know, very, very similar outside of weed
control, what's, what's of themajor concern agronomically, I
would say disease falls there,just because of how we're
looking at things. So commodityprices across the board aren't
great, right? But input costshave stayed pretty high. They
(15:55):
aren't they aren't matchingthat. You know, fertility
included, and what we have outhere when you get into North
Dakota is that we have diversityof those minor crops to grow.
And so that's why it's always,you know, up in the air what our
actual acres are going to end upbeing. And so that's what a lot
of guys are looking at. Hey,what can I get a good contract
(16:17):
price for? Because a lot of thisstuff is specialty. So you start
talking pulse crops. That's alot of, lot of guys want to go
down that road this past yearlentils, which is going to be
specific to my area, and alittle further west and north,
and kind of that geography. Soalong the Montana border was a
very popular crop, just becauseof where you could be in a cash
(16:39):
basis, or a, you know, contractbasis for cash flow. And I see
that same thing again, butdisease is going to be a big
issue for us, not to mentionthat growing lentils out here is
also a great point source to addto the weed problem we have,
because there are, there are noreal good, effective herbicide
options post in that crop,except for grass and our pre
(17:01):
emergent options, we have to usesuch a small rate to not not
injure the lentils that weusually just introduce, and
they're they're not verycompetitive. So I could see us
pushing a lot more to that whichis concerning me over disease,
because we're going to be reallytightening upper rotations to
(17:21):
make this cash flow thing workmore in our favor. And my fear
is it's going to get moreexpensive for weed control down
the road, because very rare do Isee lentil fields that are nice
and squeaky clean? They always,usually have that, that main one
we talk kochia and and marestailfor that in those fields, it's
(17:42):
hard to keep them out.
Joe Ikley (17:45):
And this wealth and Kyle, you know, this one would,
this will be a fun eye openerfor Jeff. Is that one of our
best, maybe our Well, one of ouronly programs we try in lentils
post emergence is getting theright balance of tough and
metribuzin to kill our Kochiaand not kill the lentils.
Jeff Nagel (18:02):
Wow. What an what an opportunity of products,
Kyle Okke (18:09):
waterhemp, I have to just imagine, to laugh at any
rate, of either those,
Joe Ikley (18:15):
well, Metribuzin, from a pre emergent standpoint,
Metribuzin is still veryeffective on waterhemp. We don't
really use it much post because,you know, you really can't in
soybeans, but lentils has gotthat weird tolerance there that
we can Yep. And then tough,yeah, it's, it's a crop we can
use it in, yeah, all right. Andthen, Sarah, are you keeping
(18:38):
track your bonus questions, didhe? Did you check off your
boxes?
Sarah Lancaster (18:42):
So where does weed control rank compared to
some of your other issues?
Kyle Okke (18:46):
To me, weed control is still on close to the top. I
mean, first, first thing, Ithink, for us, is we're in a
land of intermittent moisture.And so where usually I see the
first hole happen here iseveryone looks at a poor
commodity price and high inputs,and they're going to want to cut
(19:08):
back a little on fertilizer. Andthat's probably the biggest weed
control problem you're going tointroduce, is a poor canopy and
and so I'd say fertility and andweed control are right there,
one and two together, but wecontrol is an absolute must. If
you don't have weed control, youdon't have you don't have a
(19:30):
crop. It's just plain andsimple. You watch people cut
corners on weed control, andit's majorly impactful to yield
out here.
Sarah Lancaster (19:41):
So in your area, what part of a what
percentage of a productionbudget going to herbicides and
other weed control things?
Joe Ikley (19:51):
well, and maybe for some context to Kyle is that
Kyle Okke (19:51):
Good question. It's probably less than you think,
Jason Hanson (19:51):
Come on, Sarah, give us a little credit. It felt
um, I'm, I'm, I could be way.Off. But I'm guessing we're
like it was longer than sixweeks this season.
probably only around that 30,40% of our inputs are weed
control related, at least on theon the on the inputs thing, not
the fixed costs and equipmentand all that rent, but just your
(20:14):
fixed or the the input side ofthings.
you're talking your geographyprimarily one pass, if we can
get away with it for most crops.
Kyle Okke (20:29):
Well, right? But, but usually, that's where the
failures happen. I mean, as longas we're as long as we're
incorporating spring and fallburn downs, usually, then the
one pass in crop, then we'refine with our limited moisture.
Sarah Lancaster (20:44):
well you're all growing season is only like six
weeks long anyway.
Joe Ikley (20:58):
Let me tell you, if it feels a lot longer than six
this year, for sure, but we putthat fall burn down on in
October that'll last us till MaySarah.
Kyle Okke (21:11):
that's the expectation, isn't it? Yep, yes.
And we have to crush everyone'swe have to crush everyone's
hopes and dreams every time theybring that up. Oh, this will
last, right? No, no, it doesn'twork like that.
Joe Ikley (21:26):
All right. Jason, same question, if you can follow
the string of questions,
Jason Hanson (21:32):
yeah. I think the thing that's really stuck out
for most of my guys, Farmerclients that I've talked to is
we're just getting into the endof harvest, I got two corn
fields out. That's it for thewhole year. Otherwise,
everything's off. Some seedcosts. It seems that with the
yields this year, seed costs,particularly corn and soybeans,
(21:54):
are very firm. Fertilizer hasnot moved down like they said it
was supposed to. So that,coupled with just the tail off
of prices, but probably thebiggest thing that I hear from
my farmers is the cost ofrepairs on machinery and the
price of new iron, and how bigof an impact that has, if you
(22:15):
want to upgrade or you have toreplace something, how expensive
it is, and not only the cost,but in some cases, the quality
of the parts that they'regetting has really dropped off.
So I have heard that from fromquite a few people this year.
Now, you know, we ran intothings that this year that were
(22:38):
very unique, and we had sometremendously large winds that
devastated some of our crops,particularly canola. We had some
rain that came at the wrongtime, and we ended with a lot of
sprout in our on our maltbarley. Like I think 10% of my
total barley made malt quality.The rest is feed. I mean, 50 to
(23:01):
60% sprout, so that was one ofour better contracts. And so
people are looking around at,you know, an Omega three canola
last year, malt barleycontracts, our edible bean acres
were way up, so they're kind ofchasing some of that. And then
we just have to see how thatplays out. So then what happens
(23:22):
a lot in that scenario is, is alot of stuff gets left open. So
I think to Sarah's questionabout we had a lot of quality
issues if, if you need we'llmatch your Kansas low pro winter
wheat with some really lowprotein spring wheat. I mean,
let's go head to head, I think.And usually we stick at a, at a,
(23:45):
at a premium, higher protein.That wasn't the case, falling.
Numbers were bad. So it haspeople really nervous, because
they have a in low prices. Yousit with a lot of grain in
inventory. So we're, we're kindof nervous. We're nervous about
that and what it's going to do.I think I spend more mental
energy as a consultant on weedcontrol than my farmer does.
(24:09):
He's willing to do what I tellthem to do, but he's, you know,
this, they go through stageslike all of us, right? If I get
herbicide questions in springwhen I'm doing fertility, it's
like, what? Hold on a secondaryMike. I don't have that part of
my brain working. So with themcoming out of harvest, they're
trying to wrap up some fallfertilizer, get their ditching
(24:31):
done, get the machinerywinterized and put away and just
be done with stuff. So I didn'tsee as much. We talked a lot
about some fall residualprograms, and it didn't happen
because the priority was otherthings. So it's still a pretty
good chunk. I mean, our wheat,our barley, our canola, our
(24:54):
edible beans, all our fungicidecrops. Jeff, we've never sprayed
Corn ever with fungicide uphere. So if that disease comes
in to our spot, that wouldtotally change some things. But
I think I spend more timeworrying about it than my
farmers do. They're at okay, isthis the thing to do? Okay?
(25:17):
Well, let's do it then, allright, but other things get in
the way, and they did this year,which it was a long year, I'm
telling you, every one of us upin the northeast part of the
state, we're just ready to letthe snow fly, put the flannel
on, get the soup pot going, andsee how much beer is in the
fridge. It's that. It's beenthat kind of a season.
Joe Ikley (25:43):
Yeah, no, it comes down to this side or this corner
of the state too. I mean, we, wewent out, we finally got some
fields ready for some fallapplications. We go into some
Farmer Field to chase someweeds. And that finally
happened, this about five daysago, and driving out about an
hour west, just the amount oftractors still in fields in mid
(26:06):
November was eye opening.
Jason Hanson (26:10):
We've been blessed with a very, very long fall
there. There could have, maybe,should have been other stuff
done, but he just can't alwaysspend money, and it's just, it's
just the time of the end of theyear right now.
Joe Ikley (26:25):
All right, so in the next question, unless we kind of
weaved some listen to ouranswers, but maybe it's just
worth asking flat out, to see ifany, any other things pop into
each person's mind. And we'll,we'll serpentine our draft order
again and start with Jason. Soout of everything, we kind of
talked about, how do you balancethose concerns? We'll just say,
on an annual basis, it's not2024, all those different things
(26:49):
you do as an agronomist, foryour for your customers. And
then we did kind of talk aboutthis margins being tight thing
and how that changes theequation. But maybe if anything
in particular pops into yourhead that hadn't already going
into into 2025, and how thoseconversations might be going.
(27:09):
Maybe we can expound on that alittle bit more.
Jason Hanson (27:14):
I my soil sampling was up this year, so that is
that's something that people aregoing to spend to find out where
they're at. So we can figureout, and then we can, we'll
probably adjust as to what'sgoing to happen. We don't know
100% we probably know 70% ofwhat's going to happen, but not
the remaining percents there.And then you just have it comes
(27:38):
down to that farm and theirsituation, and then that field
in its situation, and adjust,and you got to, kind of, kind of
got to have the plan so it's notthere's 42 different
prescriptions out there onstuff, because logistically, you
just open up your chances formore mistakes, not only on the
(28:01):
products, but your math and allthat in crop. So you try to I've
already sat down with one of myguys just to get a game plan of
what we're going to do, and I'massuming that that'll probably
happen here. Between now and theend of the year, there'll be
more of it this year, becauseit's just just tighter
financially.
Joe Ikley (28:22):
Kyle?
Kyle Okke (28:25):
it's, it's very similar to Jason. You know, it's
just, it's just getting somestreamlined plans made, I guess
is, is how we're going to try tonavigate this from this year
into next year, and the and thebest way to look at is, if you
(28:45):
can make a plan, now you couldbudget for it, and then you
really focus more on, you know,where the plan wouldn't work,
you know, once you get inseason. So, like, that's, that's
how I always tackle the weedcontrol program. Is a lot of
these fields you have a historyon, so you know what you're
going to deal with, right? With,right? And so then you lay out
the road map, or the plan forthe weed control, and then you
(29:08):
go, Okay, this is what it'sgoing to cost. And so then we
can put that as an absolutebudget item, and go, where else
do we have to bail out on? Andthen once we get in season, in
crop, then it's looking at,Okay, is there any special
extenuating circumstances thatmake us have to change that
plan? And like Jason said, youtry to streamline it, because if
(29:29):
you have 50 different, you know,plans, recommendations that go
out, you're going to have allkinds of mistakes. So you try to
stream, streamline as much asyou can with this fall burn down
for us is where we get to makesome unique, you know, choices,
or whatever, you know, where arewe going to use, you know, use
(29:50):
just flumioxazin? Are we goingto use sulfentrazone or
metribuzin, or pyroxasulfone andall that? And so I've got
situations where we've. used allthose, cobination of those and
for specific reasons but I odn'tthink we would ever get away
with that in the cropping yearwith how our system works with
(30:13):
minimal passes possible, thatkind of thing.
Joe Ikley (30:21):
right, how about you Jeff?
Jeff Nagel (30:22):
yeah, it's interesting when Kyle and Jason
were in different geographies,but just interesting to hear the
general farm economy, just thetightness of that more and
growers looking at that harder.But yeah, I still think that
that some of the toughconversations are coming up
during prepay, coming up here,around weed control, and what
(30:44):
it's going to take. So, youknow, they, as growers, got into
harvest. They they had goodyields. And so they kind of were
starting to stay with most inthe nutrition program, some
holding back a little bit. But alot of them, you know, went
ahead with eggs. They had goodyields and and they knew that
was part of the key to theirgood yields. The tough
conversation is going to be aswe get into waterhemp, it's
(31:06):
like, I, I've been in thisbusiness a long time, and I've,
I've never seen a weed that it'skind of scary in terms of the
resistance that's developing.And so it's like, we go down
this path of using somethingtill it's broke, right? And then
you have the next thing, andwe're running out of the next
things, and the tools in thetoolbox we're running out of. So
(31:26):
you to get growers to thinkabout, you know, just cultural
practices, row spacing, cropcanopy, you know, maybe some
cover crops to help with weeds,but, and then, and then bringing
in different sites of action,and that's a spin. So, you know,
we're going down this path with,you know, just enlist roundup or
(31:47):
liberty on Flex beans. And so,you know, getting growers to
think about making that spin,spending more money on a
residual and then maybe tankmixing a Dicamba with an HPPD
and corn, like we talked aboutbefore, those are all, those are
all added cost, and that's goingto be a tough conversation of,
(32:07):
like, wanting them to get to dothat, and will they do that? I
mean, and it's going to beimportant that they do, but
that's going to be the toughconversation with it.
Joe Ikley (32:16):
And I think that kind of sets up the next question I
had pretty well. So, so giventhat context, you know what is?
What is something that whenyou're working with your
growers? And we'll, again, we'llstart with Jeff and work
backwards there of somethingthat they need to do to be
successful in weed control. Andyou kind of already mentioned
residual. So I think that may beprobably a common theme. But
(32:37):
we'll, we'll see, as you guysanswer of you know, what's
something that to be successfuldo this and then after that,
it's kind of a negotiation.
Jeff Nagel (32:48):
Yeah, I would agree. It's probably that, you know, we
still have, I would say, more incorn than soybeans, of growers
maybe trying to do like tillagein a one pass post. So, so I
think that that piece that'sthat's really imperative. We
kind of have a five stepapproach to weed control, and
one of those is, you know, startwith, start cleaning the fall,
(33:10):
either effective burn down ortillage, and then use an
effective residual with multiplesites of action at planting
time. And that's a piece thatwe've got to get. We're doing a
pretty good job. I think mostgrowers are recognizing that,
but still room for improvement.And that's just like you, you've
got to be ahead of water hemp.You can't get behind it. And so
(33:30):
we're, we're oftentimes chasingbigger weed. So getting on both
the corn and soybean side and aneffective residual with multiple
sites of action is probably oneof those non negotiable pieces.
One of one of the challenges werun into is early planted
soybeans as a trend, for a goodreason, but, but depending on
the grower size of operation, onthe soybean side, they may just
(33:53):
get in start planting or dotillage and plant. And some of
these PPOs and our pre mix islike the authorities and valors.
It's three days after planting,and that window goes pretty
quick. And so what is a growerback to? Well, back to the
straight group 15, a dual, youknow, a warrant or something.
And we're kind of like, becomingvery dependent on that side of
(34:16):
action. And so that's an issue.And so Joe and Sarah, maybe,
like you mentioned thatmetribuzin, we do some, but we
probably need to start bringingback in higher rates of it. So
it's, it's a combination ofthat, but, but just, I think
that foundation of starting outon those residuals is really
critical.
Joe Ikley (34:37):
So maybe before we come back north, Sarah, you're
not a consultant, but you dealwith pigweeds, slightly
different than waterhemp. Sojust Just curious on your
thoughts, on, you know, howclosely they might mirror what
Jeff just kind of mentioned, asfar as what to say, good results
out of your research program.
Sarah Lancaster (34:59):
Yeah. I mean. You saw me maybe on the video
and nodding along. I thinkthat's, that's pretty much it,
right? Most of our guys aregoing to try to come out with
some sort of either fall, butmore, more than likely, early
spring, largely targeting Koshaand a lot in the western part of
the state, but starting clean,whatever that means. And then,
(35:22):
like you said, the multiplesites of action for residuals. I
was just chatting with kind of asmaller retailer, slash custom
applicator type of guy here atthe end of last week about how
much he likes the flumiax is inpyroxa cell phone, so that
fierce type of combination. AndI would agree, when I kind of
(35:42):
pull all of my trials togetherand soybean trials together and
start looking at like, what aremy top treatments, it's usually
something that includes one orboth of those two products. But
I think you had this study tothe last few years Joe, I have
been just so pleased with thelength of residual control that
(36:03):
I'm getting out of Metrobus andin my soybean studies and and
what that looks like for PalmerAmaranth. I mean, I can't I'm
very pleased with it. I'm notsure our consultant types and
our agronomists are all the wayon board with that. Yet, I think
they're still a littleskeptical, but I think we've got
like eight states worth ofnumbers to show that it's it's
(36:28):
real and it works, and I thinkit's a really good alternative.
No, my concern is one of my petpeeves for this whole what's
successful. Thing is, I think wekid ourselves on corn. I think
we kind of just stop looking forpigweeds and corn after a
certain point, and we assumethat we, you know, we see them
in beans, and they're a problem.And so getting that, that proper
(36:53):
residual down with that postchest and corn, I think, is
something that we probably don'tspend enough time thinking
about, and like, how and whereto use our Atrazine. But, yeah,
I think, I mean, most guys oncorn, they're like, You guys
have alluded they're wanting togo kind of a one pass ish thing,
(37:13):
if they can in corn and so thatthat typically, I think it looks
good until the canopy closes,and then then we start to fall
off a little bit there.
Joe Ikley (37:22):
I don't know you're talking about the North Dakota
pre coming, early post and corn,
Sarah Lancaster (37:29):
right? Like, I think, I think every farmer, if
they could get by with that,like v2 pass and corn and
nothing, you know, early springburn down in that v2 pass, they
do it. But
Jeff Nagel (37:40):
So, Sarah, what rate of metribuzin Are you talking
about that you're having successwith? Yeah,
Sarah Lancaster (37:45):
Yeah so we just summarized some data looking at
metrobusine tank mixes and likeanything that had a half a pound
or even six tenths of a pound ofmetribuzin had really nice
control season long, and thenvery little crop injury.
Numerically, the crop injury wasgreater with this six tenths of
(38:06):
a pound, but not statistically,
Jeff Nagel (38:08):
yeah, I agree. I think I've had that discussion
with Bill and Brian at Purdueand Aaron Hager at University of
Illinois. And I think peoplekind of growers kind of got
concerned about crop responseyears ago. And, you know, we're
not using as much Atrazine, andit we're and we're using some
metrobusiness, but we need to beat higher rates. And that half
(38:28):
pound rate is probably a minimumplace for that, except for our
sands. So that's, I think that'san excellent point.
Sarah Lancaster (38:35):
So one of my concerns is, I think we're going
to start seeing metribuzin creepinto some of the corn market,
and so now, then we're justgoing to be we're going to break
that one too, if we start tolook at it in more places. So
Joe Ikley (38:49):
yeah, we're seeing same thing with Metribuzin. And
I often say, I know North Dakotais in the show me state, but
whatever show me translates intoNorwegian. You could call us
that sometimes. So, so we'vetaken a core group of those
treatments, put them all overthe state, just a crop safety
trial, weed control trial,separated just for the two
(39:12):
different objectives to addressthat concern. So we have a lot
of high pH soils and that, yeah,get burned once in the 80s or
90s, and you don't want to touchtouch that product again, it
seems. But then also thecomplimentary weed control that
we're getting included. We putit didn't make Dickinson, but
headinger and Williston thisyear. So to get us back on track
and out west Kyle, if youremember the heck, the question
(39:35):
I asked a while ago
Kyle Okke (39:37):
was I, yeah, with, with the with the varying crop
rotation, there's differentlike, must haves or non
negotiables, as as I'm going touse that, because you don't like
me using that term, but so, sofirst, if you're going, if
you're going to a minor crop,and I'm just going to call the
miner crop, people laugh outhere calling a minor crop, but
(39:58):
like, if you're going to sun.Hours, if you're going to
lentils, if you're going tochick peas, field peas, trying
to think of a few others. If youknow that's where your rotation
is going, you have to be puttingdown some kind of late fall
residual, not not an Octoberresidual, probably like a late
October, early Novemberresidual. That's part of your
(40:20):
burn down, and you still have todo spring residual so, so for
those crops, that's an absolutemust. If you don't do those
things, you are not going to benear as successful to seen it
firsthand too many times when itcomes to like the bulk of the
acres spring wheat, for me,we're we're dominantly no till,
(40:41):
because we're dry, so we have tobe no till. That's how we're
profitable. It's not a fad, it'snot a soil health thing. It's a
we're playing as dry. And so thesprayer is our tillage tool. And
those that try to get awaywithout a spring burn down are
the ones that always get caughtwith their pants down in spring
(41:01):
wheat and have weeds that aretoo big by the time they get to
their in crop pass. And so it'syour spring burn down is, is
such a big deal and not skimpingon rates? So they don't, they
don't have to be complicated.They don't have to be, you know,
necessarily, a lot of differentmodes of action. You can just
take like or Dicamba, 240,glyphosate in a burn down at
(41:26):
appropriate rates. And you canbe very successful in spring
wheat, because you got so manygood modes of action and tools
to use. Post emergent. But yourMetro using comment, we don't
have a lot of soybeans insouthwest North Dakota. So that
is the crop corn that I amutilizing metribuzin for Fall
(41:46):
burn down in because we needsomething extra from what we
have. I've even watched flumeoxygen, just Kosha blows right
through it. In the poor area, orwhere you have the salinity
areas, the high pH areas, Koshablows right through that. And so
we're doing combinations offlumy and metrobusiness in some
(42:09):
of those areas, looking also atlike self interest, own
metrabusine, just to try to getit in a cropping system that we
don't normally have, because wedo a lot of lot of spring wheat,
lot of corn in rotation and andit doesn't screw up that you
know where you're wearing yourcorn, soybean rotation. I could
(42:29):
see where you're going to burnout. Metribuzin, if you keep
using it every year.
Sarah Lancaster (42:35):
grass rotations that we have in the dry lands
are tough.
Kyle Okke (42:39):
Yeah, yeah. Grass is the tough one, and that's where,
hey. So I'll preface this one.So the one that I mean sometimes
I well, I win the argument mostof the times, or if any one of
the farmers I work with, here'sa laugh, you know, about how,
how much back and forth we haveon some of this. But crop
(43:00):
rotation. Holy crap. Justrotate. If you have grass issues
in the West, it's because yougrow too much wheat and
rotation. Grow something else.Grow, grow a glyphosate tolerant
crop. Be done with it. It is thebest thing you can do to take
care of your grass controlissues is, is get some kind of
(43:21):
if it's soybeans, corn, canola,just get get something. Or if
it's something that you're usingconventional grass chemistry,
like clethodim as a pulse crop,or a sunflower or flax, or
something like that, that's finebecause you're spraying
different timings than you wouldin your wheat. So crop rotation
is a weed control tool without aquestion. And to me, is a non
(43:44):
negotiable thing. Once you havegrass issues, you have to rotate
Joe Ikley (43:52):
some of our worst areas would be if we can see a
glyphosate in the summer once ina while, because otherwise those
group one and group two productsare just we're burning through
them pretty fast when we don'thave glyphosate in that
rotation.
Kyle Okke (44:07):
Yep. And it looks great when, when you do use
glyphosate in the summer, thoseparticular weeds,
Joe Ikley (44:15):
it's all those fun things. You never know what.
Never know what you're going toget when the phone rings,
especially if you don't havetheir number saved. But he goes,
last summer, I got a this glyphstate thing works pretty darn
good. And like, Where are youcalling from? But I like it. It
was northwest corner of thestate. They had Roundup Ready
soybeans for the first time, andwere pretty impressed. All
(44:41):
right? Jason, same, same suiteof questions, I guess.
Jason Hanson (44:45):
yeah that that rotation thing for us is where I
run the into issues, is whereI've got, just based on how far
that farm sits, the fields sitfrom your farm, if it's a two
crop rotation, I have the mostprobably. Comes if it's a three
crop, they drop way down. Ifit's a four crop, I feel really
(45:05):
good about what we're doing tomanage it, just through the
diversity of warm seasonbroadleaf, cool season
broadleaf, warm season grass,cool season grass. So wheat,
canola and soybeans are my threebut when I get the fourth corn
in there, that really changes alot of stuff. So, I mean, I
(45:26):
think there's so much focus onon soybeans, as far as a pre a
couple things I do is I just, Ijust want to go and smash weeds
right in the mouth, right out ofthe gate. No Mercy,
thermonuclear. Drop it. So I I'mbig on I use a lot of sulfanter
zone. All my soybeans and mypeas get matribusin with that. I
(45:52):
feel I get good foliar activityand good residual activity. If
I've got Kosha up at the timeand it's peas, I know I will
drop paraquat in there as well.I'll do the same thing on
soybeans. I have moved all myDicamba application in with the
pre burn down. It's the smallestkosher I contend with. And
(46:16):
people kind of go, whoa. Howmuch that going to cost, like,
if you don't have to deal withit, and all you got to do is
clean up with some Liberty lateron. We don't do you want? You
want the stress earlier? Youwant it late? I'll take let's,
let's get on it right now. Andthis last year, we actually used
some residuals in front ofcereals too, and because of weed
(46:38):
pressure. And that worked outreally well. I'm moving back in
my corn. I'm going to try to,almost all our week gets hppds
and barley so I'm going to goback to true pre burn down with
Atrazine, glyphosate andwhatever type of product we're
using to get on that stuff earlywe got, we kind of got behind
(47:00):
that eight ball a little bit onsome of that corn this year
because we were so wet. So Idon't seem to get much pushback
on that, because I part of thereason that I'm hired, I can
three farms that they have a lotof Kosher to deal with, so just
having me there to help themmanage with it. If it makes it
(47:20):
look better. It makes it harvestbetter. They're content with
that. So we have to do what wehave to do. In some cases, it's
if you're looking at me to saveyou money. I'm also here because
I can make you money. And thenyou just got to talk through
those scenarios,
Joe Ikley (47:39):
Gotta spend money to make money.
Jason Hanson (47:43):
I mean, there's no doubt we'll have. The
conversations will be, where canwe it's, there'll be more
discussions about where thoseplaces we can or should cut. And
so I always like to lay out alike, this is the worst case
scenario, and then it it's aboutif we can adjust. That means
there's intense, just theintensity of scouting, and then
(48:05):
I have to know that we're goingto do what we said we're going
to do in that time frame,because that's where things can
get out of whack. Well, we wentand did this, and we couldn't
get over there and do that. Oh,now we're in trouble. Now that
little bit we thought we werespending is going to get more
expensive.
Joe Ikley (48:22):
All right, I had a couple questions left, but I'm
seeing the time. I'm going tojump to the bottom of my list,
and we're going to ask theuncomfortable question that
Sarah and I are probably alreadytired of, and it hasn't really
begun yet. So here's mydisclaimer of the day at time of
recording at November 18, 20243:01pm, Central Time. It still
(48:46):
looks very unlikely that we willhave Xtendimax or Engenia or
tavium registered for the 2025season. If that isn't a player
in your geography, I'm justcurious. Have those
conversations begun, and whatdoes that even looked like? And
I'm going to also buck the trendhere, and we're going west to
east, so we're starting withKyle on this one.
Kyle Okke (49:10):
Well, there's still plenty. One of my, one of my
clients, throws a lot ofsoybeans and, and, like Jason
had said, Uh, well, and, andJeff too. You know, our pre
program was full rate ofingenia, our metribuzin rates a
little different. We wererunning third pound rates, self
entry zone, glyphosate in thatburn down. And when we had all
(49:35):
of that in there, we didn'treally have a lot of we don't
have pigweed there, so we're notreally worried about say, like
your group 15 is in the mix, butall we had to do is one one pass
of liberty with a second touchup pass of liberty, you get just
a few areas, and we absolutelyhad excellent control on our
coach issues. So if we loseDicamba as a tool like I still
(49:58):
feel like that's a reallycritical part of. Our pre emerge
firm done and residual. So ifwe, if we lose Dicamba, that's
going to be tough, because whatyou're allowed, eight ounces, 30
days before planting, that'sjust not going to do it.
Joe Ikley (50:15):
You know, that's, that's, that's geography
dependent. If you get less than25 inches of rain, like we do.
It's 120 days.
Kyle Okke (50:23):
Yeah, there you go. So that's like, yeah, not going
to work for us, yeah? So that's,it's going to be tough. So then,
so then that's probably wherefor us, even though the group
fifteens aren't as effective,let's say on couch show would be
the main, main weed we're after.It's going to have to be
introduced in there to haveanother mode of action. So mode
(50:44):
of action and and that'sdefinitely going to be a more
expensive mode of action tointroduce. But to me, like
that's if you're going to besuccessful in soybeans, you're
going to have to have, you haveto have all this stuff stacked.
If you're not stacking all thesemodes of action, you're just not
going to get the control youneed.
Joe Ikley (50:59):
How You about you Jason?
Jason Hanson (51:07):
here's what's going to happen. Okay, it might
not get written down, but itwill get talked about. And the
risk to me, I got guys that haveEngenia in inventory because
they, they went out and boughtit last year, and we, we didn't,
(51:27):
because of our pre mix was sogood, they still got excess
inventory of that. If thatproduct isn't allowed to go on
that crop, say, post, I willtell you that there'll be plenty
of Dicamba that will go out in apre emerge scenario, whether
that is those three products orothers. And the risk to me is
(51:48):
that time of the year is somuch, so much cooler that I
don't I don't put it on postemerge anymore. I wish that that
label would have been a preonly. We would not be talking
about this at all. We'd havelike, Oh my gosh. I didn't
realize it would be that good,because it is that good. So is
that you don't have to edit thispart out. But that is, I'm not
(52:16):
going to have any day. I did nothave any Dicamba. I got sprayed
foliarly This year at all,because it was all at a
different time frame, and itworked so much better. And I
rely on my glufosinate to tidyup things, and that that's the
other part, is making sureyou're doing everything possible
to make glufosinate into theproduct that it is, so that
(52:40):
you're not short changing it inany way, shape or form, because
that's like, that's the backstopthat we got now that's gone.
We're in deep trouble.
Joe Ikley (52:53):
And that's, that's part of the uncomfort and hard
conversations of you know,there's what's labeled and
what's on inventory and whathappens in the real world. So
maybe we'll make a quick pitstop at my office, since as you
quickly transition from Jason toFargo type area, we do get to a
(53:13):
lot more enlist beans as we gofrom primarily kosher into a
much more water hemp ragweedterritory, and we've and there's
the those who grow extend,extend flex beans, it's going to
be a very hard conversation.Probably has been in seed sale
season already, but those whogrow enlisted. It hasn't been an
issue for them. And so Iprobably standard operating
(53:35):
procedure, but just just showingas we get more into this corner
of the state and more into wherewaterhemp and ragweed dominates,
and list platform is a muchbigger foothold, primarily for
those weeds. So less of adifficult conversation
throughout the winter months,maybe a quick pit stop in Kansas
(53:55):
before Jeff's comments.
Sarah Lancaster (53:59):
So my take on the current situation is that,
well, first off, we're probablyas a state 6040, ish in terms of
enlist to extend on the mix. Ithink most of the guys that were
on the fence and could be swayedfrom extend to enlist have moved
(54:21):
so I don't think there's goingto be any switching systems. The
comments that I've gotten whenI've kind of quizzed guys what
their plans are, basicallythey're planning on liberty as
their post, right? Like that'stheir post plan to Jason's
points and to your comment, whatactually happens this summer?
(54:47):
I'm sure we'll be able to tellafter the fact, but at this
point, I think you know those,those flex extend flex programs,
are counting on liberty to carrythe load. Post
Joe Ikley (55:02):
which that doesn't make a weed scientist nervous,
does it? Sarah, nah,
Sarah Lancaster (55:06):
I love that answer, Joe, I guess we should
look at it as job security. All
Joe Ikley (55:15):
All right, let's finish in the eastern Corn Belt.
Yeah, I
Jeff Nagel (55:17):
would say we're a bit like Sarah's. We probably
have maybe a 6040, split e3 toextend flex, maybe. And it
varies on the area. Pockets aregoing to be heavier e3 some
pockets heavier flex. But we'vebeen kind of, I guess,
transitioning a little bit outof Dicamba, good, a good tool.
But to Jason's point on thebaggage of that in crop
(55:38):
application and off target is,is challenging, especially in
retail, and you know, that'sjust a tough situation. So we
are going to on our e3platforms. We're going to we're
going to lead this year withenlist Liberty tank mix. We've
been seeing some more morevariable control out of enlist
glyphosate. And we think there'ssome reasons for that, that
(56:01):
we're heading down a path that'snot good. So we're going to try
to lead with that tank mix postemergence on the flex beans,
we're going to it's Liberty likeSarah, like way, that's what we
got. So, so we did have alittle, a little bit
experimental use of PPOs withLiberty last year. Didn't really
seem to, I don't know, added alot to it so, but you know,
(56:23):
we've had this rate creep onliberty. You know, when you
know, we started down this path,we were 22 ounces, and then
we're 29 and we're 32 and guesswhat? We're we just met with
some with BASF, and we're goingto lead with 36 ounces this
year, right? So that's kind oftelling you something. We know
it's more environmentallysensitive on things, but that
(56:43):
makes this concern, you know,where we have one site of action
post emergence, so that'ssomething we have to be smart
about in terms of the residualdown and overlapping residuals
in crop.
Joe Ikley (56:57):
So Jason Kyle, take note, because they get a lot
more consistent humidity therethan we do.
Jason Hanson (57:03):
Yeah, I know I was thinking about that.
Kyle Okke (57:08):
Now we have plenty of inconsistent control of liberty.
Joe Ikley (57:15):
All right. Well, one final thing I did want to do is
provide everyone a chance to letthe listeners know where we can
find them if you want to befound. And I know Kyle and
Jason, you guys have got yourall your handles at the ready.
So we'll, we'll, we'll startwith Kyle again. That was fun
last time. So, so any socialmedia handles, websites anywhere
(57:37):
to find you? Yeah, so
Kyle Okke (57:39):
social media. I'm only a very lightly active
person there, but if you want tofind me on every platform, it's
@OkkefromMuskogee. So it's, it'sa play on my last name, so it's
O, k, k, e, not ok, i e, but OKfrom Muskogee, you can find me
on the socials, and then Jasonand I also do this podcast
(58:03):
called the agronomist happy hourtogether, which we've taken a
few month hiatus because it'sbeen a busy year, but we're
getting back on that horse, andwe'll be posting stuff here or
putting new content out hereshortly.
Joe Ikley (58:17):
Jason?
Jason Hanson (58:19):
Yeah You'll find me at Rock and Roll agronomy, R
O, C K, the letter N, R O L, andthen agronomy is spelt. Since I
used Twitter to begin with, theylimited it, so it's kind of
spelled a little different. Butif you start at R O, C, K, N, R
O L, L, you'll find me on justabout every platform there. And
then, if you want to see what wedo in the winter time, you just
(58:41):
look up our website, agronomy onice.com and what we do is the
same thing we're doing heretoday, only in an ice house on a
lake. So it's you can nerd outyear round.
Sarah Lancaster (58:57):
And that question Jason is, do I have
warm enough footwear to hang outin an ice house, to talk about
killing pigweeds.
Jason Hanson (59:03):
Oh yeah, yeah, okay, the food, the list of
food, you won't go hungry, andthere's plenty antifreeze, 12
ounce antifreeze.
Joe Ikley (59:15):
All right then, Jeff, I'm sorry I didn't, didn't
prompt you for this question.But any, any websites or social
media, if people want to findyou and reach out,
Jeff Nagel (59:23):
yeah, I would say the easiest way to be the Google
Keystone cooperative, and youcan get to some the website
there, and then to someresources that several of us
agronomists are on there. So,
Joe Ikley (59:35):
all right, perfect. Well, I do want to thank all
three of you for coming on funconversation. Want to thank the
listeners as always, and we willcatch you next time on the war
against weeds podcast.
(59:55):
As always, we thank you forlistening to the war against
weeds podcast. Just. Anotherreminder, you can find our
podcast hosted on the CropProtection Network, or CPN, for
short. So this is another greatresource that's driven by
extension scientists atdifferent universities for pest
management. And with that, wewill see you next week on the
war against weeds podcast. You.
Welcome back to the war against weeds Podcast. I'm
Joe Ikley, extension WeedScientist at North Dakota State
University. My co host today isSarah Lancaster at Kansas State
University. Sarah, what's goingon in these Southern Great
Plains?
Sarah Lancaster (00:22):
We are getting some much needed rain on the
date of this recording Dr. Ikleyso I'm a happy camper.
Joe Ikley (00:29):
The date of recording, Weve got rain coming
and some other stuff we're notgoing to talk about.
Sarah Lancaster (00:35):
I don't like solid precipitation. You can
keep it.
Joe Ikley (00:39):
but we're here for weeds. We're not here for
precipitation. So I think we'vegot a good podcast today. Got a
couple of good guests, and we'regoing to go around the horn,
introduce them, but a little bitof setup here. We're generally
going to talk about some someconcerns that agronomists might
have. We kind of started this asa concerns during tight margin
or times of tight margins, butthought would be more
(01:02):
appropriate to open up togeneral concerns and then, and
then, as margins get tight, kindof focusing in how that might
change things, about how, howthese great people think about
their their roles in their dailylives. So we're gonna go around
the horn and just gonnaintroduce them and the order
that they logged on here. And sofirst we have Jeff Nagel, Jeff,
welcome.
Jeff Nagel (01:21):
Thank you, Joe, glad to be on today.
Joe Ikley (01:24):
And so what we'd like to do is, have you just kind of
describe, you know, the role ofwho you work with, and maybe
we'll start with the major cropsin your geography as well.
Jeff Nagel (01:32):
Yeah. So I work as an agronomist with Keystone
cooperative, and I have fourcounterparts, so we have a we
cover geography in Indiana,Ohio, Michigan, some into
Illinois, and I particularlywork in northwest, West Central
and the central part of Indiana.
Joe Ikley (01:48):
All right, perfect. And the next two have been on
before, but we will reintroducethem. So we'll start with Kyle
Okke,
Kyle Okke (01:58):
well, thanks for having me, guys. So like Joe
said. Kyle Okke, I am anindependent crop consultant in
southwestern North Dakota, andkind of work all over that area,
at at different capacities, withfarmers and some with retailers.
And, yeah, main crops we got outhere wheat that makes up, like
(02:23):
over half of it. Then it's corn,and then it's a whole
smorgasbord of other things,like lentils and chickpeas and
field peas and flax and soybeansand sunflowers. And I'm missing
a lot, but it's, it's a bunch ofminor crops, is what we call
them. Everyone else's cover cropis our cash crop, but they're in
(02:44):
small acres.
Joe Ikley (02:47):
All right, good deal. Welcome back. And then the third
person we have on today is JasonHanson. Jason, welcome back.
Jason Hanson (02:54):
Yeah. Thanks Joe and Sarah for having us on
again. I work as an independentcrop consultant up in the
northeast part of North Dakota,I work with Kyle a lot. We do a
lot of stuff together. Work withpredominantly farmers and some
retailers in some capacity. Mymajor crops are spring wheat,
soybeans, canola, those are mytop three. And then it's barley,
(03:18):
edible beans, corn, field peasis what I had last year. And I
sometimes will run into othercrops like sunflowers, but those
are, I guess, seven crops thislast year that I mainly worked
with.
Joe Ikley (03:31):
Now it's intend to be moving target based on the year
we have and the markets we havearound here, well again. So
thank you, everyone for forcoming on that short
introduction, I think, to kindof get a further introduction
before we really delve intothings. And maybe we'll go in
reverse order this time. So wekind of mentioned the major
crops. So I just want to knowthe major weed challenges you're
(03:54):
dealing with in your geography.And so Jason, we'll go ahead and
start with you and go in reverseorder this time, sure,
Jason Hanson (04:02):
for the most part, kochia is King out in our part
of the world. We had a wet yearthis year, so there was a couple
other things that showed up inmore frequency. We're just
newbies to this waterhemp thing,but it has definitely showed up
a lot more, wild oats, wildbuckwheat, in some cases,
marestail and volunteer Canolais probably one of my bigger
(04:25):
weeds, so one of my crops isalso one of my main weed
sources.
Joe Ikley (04:31):
Yeah, it's always fun to talk about volunteer canola
as a weed, until you go askingthem for some money. So you got
to be I have to walk that linequite carefully, sure and Kyle,
what about down in yourgeography?
Kyle Okke (04:47):
It's it's similar to Jason. It really depends. By the
farm, what I've noticed, ifthey're a dominant wheat
rotation, we deal with a lot ofwild oat, though it's grasses
mostly, wild oat has become ourbiggest issue. So Wild Oats,
green, yellow foxtail andbarnyard grass probably our
biggest issues, broadleaf weeds,it's kochia and marestail hands
(05:11):
down.
Joe Ikley (05:13):
So Kyle, do have to ask, I know we found a couple of
decently loaded fields in Olivercounty with waterhemp, nothing
suspicious popping up in yourgeography,
Kyle Okke (05:25):
nothing that I've seen personally the last few
years. I will share. There wasone isolated case where I'm I
never had it identified. Didn'thave the tools at the time. But
there was a field that wasplanted to canola harvested. It
had always been custom harvestedfrom a crew in South Dakota. It
had a very funny looking pigweedwith the extended petioles, the
(05:49):
water marks on the leaves, allthat. And it was from a
glyphosate burned on it. I waslike glyphosate, and I think a
little bit of Dicamba burned onapplication in the fall, and it
didn't get it, but that rotationhas always had a heavy Liberty
canola with wheat in rotation,and it's never grown out of
(06:09):
proportion. And I've only seenit just that one one fall, but I
don't doubt it's around
Sarah Lancaster (06:18):
Kyle Joe likes to blame me for all of those
sites in in North Dakota. So,you know, I'll throw myself
under the bus before he has achance to do it.
Jason Hanson (06:29):
Well, the Manitobans blame North Dakotan,
so that's the deal right?
Joe Ikley (06:39):
Hey, the one good news. I found with with the
Palmer that I blame, that thePalmer Amaranth I blame Sarah on
is still pretty sensitive toglufosinate, so the populations
we've been able to test thatthat's held up for us. But yeah,
waterhemp, that's that'sstarting to change in the
eastern part of the state, butpigweed is probably a good
(07:00):
transition to go over to Jeffand talk about the major weeds
in your geography. Yeah,
Jeff Nagel (07:04):
so we have our footprint is mainly corn and
Joe Ikley (07:04):
since we're already down the pathway of blaming
soybeans, with some we but, butJoe and Sarah waterhemp is the
other people for things, so Iknow not blaming Jeff here, but
I was gonna say I was in so Iwas at Purdue from 12 through
driver weed, and it's a gamechanger. So I came back this
area in 1996 and that was whenwe started having issues with
pursuit, that was the mainherbicide use, until it didn't
18, I guess from my years downthere. And when I got there in
work anymore with resistance.And so roundup came on the
(07:26):
market about that time period,and was really, you know,
something that was very helpful,until it didn't work anymore
either. So it is, it is a changein is what's driving our weed
control programs? We have giantragweeds, another one that we
deal with in areas, marestales,you know, the other broadleave.
But by far, waterhemp is themost expensive weed to control.
(07:49):
We do have some Palmer Amaranthin the northwest part of
2012 we weren't really talkingtoo much about waterhemp. Then
Indiana. Hasn't spread as muchas we thought it might have, but
that waterhemp is abouteverywhere, and probably worse
on the west side of Indiana,going in Illinois and then, but
it's showing up more in theeastern part of the state of
Indiana and into Michigan andOhio also. So it's what drives
(08:12):
our weed control programs, andit's causing farmers to spend a
lot of money on that weed
(08:38):
this guy named Bryan Youngshowed up about 2014 and that
was, seems like the only weed wetalked about from that 14 until
the time I left. So, yeah, well,
Jeff Nagel (08:49):
it hasn't changed, Joe, it's still it's still
there, all
Joe Ikley (08:55):
right. So I think that kind of sets the stage on
some crops and some weeds. Butbefore we really get into some
of the other questions we reallywant to delve into today. The
other thing I just want to setup, since you guys are
consultants and work not just inweed control, is the other
things that keep you up at nightthat you have to deal with. And
this sounds like we were allbroad leafs and grasses, but
annual weeds, so maybe this iswhere we might differentiate a
(09:18):
little bit about the otheragronomic challenges, and we'll
go ahead and serpentine backagain. So starting with, it's
like a fantasy draft here. We'regoing to start with Jeff again.
Jeff Nagel (09:28):
Well, the other agronomic challenges, I think,
as we go into the 25 season,it's a little bit, come on, it's
a little bit profitabilitydriven, right? So growers are,
you know, thinking about withcommodity prices down, we're
pretty fortunate that we hadsome pretty good corn and
soybean yields as a whole, whichBushels has helped a bunch. But
(09:50):
obviously the the input cost orweighing on growers mind is
commodity prices have have comedown some with it. So I think
growers. Looking at that cropbudget and how they're going to
allocate dollars. So the fall,we had a lot of conversations
are, you know, at the retaillocations around, you know, the
(10:12):
input cost on dry fertilizer andlimestone applications to kind
of set that up and and evenbeginning to think a little bit
of thinking about the 25 season,and some of the challenges we're
seeing around waterhemp, andactually maybe need to increase
spending for the weed controlthere. So it's kind of balancing
that inputs between thedifferent areas, and that's
(10:33):
that's weighing on growers mindsas we head into '25 Yeah.
Joe Ikley (10:37):
The other thing I want to ask you about, Jeff, so
this is a observation from afar,but our pathology colleagues can
trip a lot, and so, know, youguys have some tar spot across
the state. Is one of the manydisease challenges. And how does
that weigh in people's minds? Isthat just kind of a we see it so
we know it's there. Is that kindof a really big deal for you
guys in your geography?
Jeff Nagel (10:58):
No, it's a big deal. And that's, a, that's a great
point. And I call it the waterhemp, of the of the weeds, of
the of the diseases, right? Soit that has been a game changer,
too. So this year we had it inmultiple areas. And you know,
once it's kind of there it can,you got the inoculum for future
years. So that's a, that's agreat point, Joe and Sarah,
(11:20):
because that is a spin. We, I'dsay a lot of progressive growers
are, we're putting onreproductive stage fungicide
applications, you know, drivenprimarily by Grey leaf spot and
northern corn leaf blight. Buttar spot is, is one that can
escalate with time and andreally take yield away pretty
quick. So we had cases this yearof, you know, some, you know,
(11:43):
farmers may experience in thatfor the first time and
experiencing 30 to 40 Buchellosses that they didn't treat.
So definitely some hybridtolerance differences, but it is
a factor, and most farmers arebudgeting at a fungicide
application. And there's evenrare situations where two might
be needed and that we, I thinkwe're still learning. We're
(12:06):
about seven years in a tar spot.A lot of good work coming out of
the Midwestern universities, on,on managing that, but we're
still learning. So it is, it isa definitely spend that the
growers maybe not have spent thepast. And sometimes may take two
applications,
Joe Ikley (12:24):
and I'm just, I'm kind of tuned into that one. So
I've got a some pathologytraining. But B, North Dakota
finally made the tar spot map,and we did so with about 10
counties.
Kyle Okke (12:33):
I don't know if that's a fist pump.
Sarah Lancaster (12:38):
That's not a game you want to be in dude.
Jeff Nagel (12:43):
take it seriously, because they can take bushels
off pretty quick.
Joe Ikley (12:47):
Yeah, there's one we found pretty late in kind of a
late season survey, since we hadsuch a long fall. But I know our
our pathologist is quitenervous, because everything
we've been told is that thisdisease that loves cool weather,
and we got that in abundance, ifnothing else,
Sarah Lancaster (13:02):
the the corn disease on the the radar here
this year is, no, I'm gonnaforget the name of it, crap.
It's a virus. It's vectored by alittle leaf hopper.
Joe Ikley (13:16):
Was gonna say it's a new virus, isn't it?
Jeff Nagel (13:18):
Corn stunt. Yeah, yeah. So we had our we had our
first field this year. Sarah ofcorn stunt identified. So it was
pretty minor, but the firsttime, I didn't even know what it
was. I heard about it some, butwe had it for the first time.
Sarah Lancaster (13:32):
So my my curiosity about Joe's question,
the initial question. So if youwere to rank like weed
management compared to otherpest management, like,
importance wise, where would itrank, and then what would it
look like? Is like a percentageof the crop production budget?
(13:53):
Does that make sense?
Jeff Nagel (13:57):
I can only speak for my area, because I don't deal
with the same weeds Kyle andJason and Jason have there, but
so, so waterhemp is, kind of,is, is an expensive weed to
control because there's severalsites of action it's resistant
to So, so actually, you know,Purdue's doing some screening on
(14:19):
Some of the soybean chemistriesnow, and it's a little scary on
what they're finding on some ofthose things. So, you know, you
start, we start to see lessefficacy out of the hppds and
corn. We're seeing less efficacyout of saying elist one on
soybeans, and our tools arenarrower. And so how do you
(14:40):
manage that? Well, you spendmore on residual herbicide. You
may be doing more tank mixing ofmultiple sites of action, which
adds cost. And so that is, thatis a waterhemp is, is an
expensive weed to control, andthen, and then, so that ranks
pretty high on weed control asfar as an input cost. And then
the tar spot brings another. Areanother piece into that that's
(15:02):
also a pretty good investment.So those two waterhemp and tar
spot makes, makes those inputson the crop protection side
pretty significant of a budget.
Joe Ikley (15:13):
And those are all separate passes too, would be my
understanding, correct. So youhave that factor, that cost and
All right, so the Sarah's bonusquestion in mind, we'll go to
Kyle now, if you can follow thestring of what the original
question I asked was, yep.
Kyle Okke (15:33):
So you know, very, very similar outside of weed
control, what's, what's of themajor concern agronomically, I
would say disease falls there,just because of how we're
looking at things. So commodityprices across the board aren't
great, right? But input costshave stayed pretty high. They
(15:55):
aren't they aren't matchingthat. You know, fertility
included, and what we have outhere when you get into North
Dakota is that we have diversityof those minor crops to grow.
And so that's why it's always,you know, up in the air what our
actual acres are going to end upbeing. And so that's what a lot
of guys are looking at. Hey,what can I get a good contract
(16:17):
price for? Because a lot of thisstuff is specialty. So you start
talking pulse crops. That's alot of, lot of guys want to go
down that road this past yearlentils, which is going to be
specific to my area, and alittle further west and north,
and kind of that geography. Soalong the Montana border was a
very popular crop, just becauseof where you could be in a cash
(16:39):
basis, or a, you know, contractbasis for cash flow. And I see
that same thing again, butdisease is going to be a big
issue for us, not to mentionthat growing lentils out here is
also a great point source to addto the weed problem we have,
because there are, there are noreal good, effective herbicide
options post in that crop,except for grass and our pre
(17:01):
emergent options, we have to usesuch a small rate to not not
injure the lentils that weusually just introduce, and
they're they're not verycompetitive. So I could see us
pushing a lot more to that whichis concerning me over disease,
because we're going to be reallytightening upper rotations to
(17:21):
make this cash flow thing workmore in our favor. And my fear
is it's going to get moreexpensive for weed control down
the road, because very rare do Isee lentil fields that are nice
and squeaky clean? They always,usually have that, that main one
we talk kochia and and marestailfor that in those fields, it's
(17:42):
hard to keep them out.
Joe Ikley (17:45):
And this wealth and Kyle, you know, this one would,
this will be a fun eye openerfor Jeff. Is that one of our
best, maybe our Well, one of ouronly programs we try in lentils
post emergence is getting theright balance of tough and
metribuzin to kill our Kochiaand not kill the lentils.
Jeff Nagel (18:02):
Wow. What an what an opportunity of products,
Kyle Okke (18:09):
waterhemp, I have to just imagine, to laugh at any
rate, of either those,
Joe Ikley (18:15):
well, Metribuzin, from a pre emergent standpoint,
Metribuzin is still veryeffective on waterhemp. We don't
really use it much post because,you know, you really can't in
soybeans, but lentils has gotthat weird tolerance there that
we can Yep. And then tough,yeah, it's, it's a crop we can
use it in, yeah, all right. Andthen, Sarah, are you keeping
(18:38):
track your bonus questions, didhe? Did you check off your
boxes?
Sarah Lancaster (18:42):
So where does weed control rank compared to
some of your other issues?
Kyle Okke (18:46):
To me, weed control is still on close to the top. I
mean, first, first thing, Ithink, for us, is we're in a
land of intermittent moisture.And so where usually I see the
first hole happen here iseveryone looks at a poor
commodity price and high inputs,and they're going to want to cut
(19:08):
back a little on fertilizer. Andthat's probably the biggest weed
control problem you're going tointroduce, is a poor canopy and
and so I'd say fertility and andweed control are right there,
one and two together, but wecontrol is an absolute must. If
you don't have weed control, youdon't have you don't have a
(19:30):
crop. It's just plain andsimple. You watch people cut
corners on weed control, andit's majorly impactful to yield
out here.
Sarah Lancaster (19:41):
So in your area, what part of a what
percentage of a productionbudget going to herbicides and
other weed control things?
Joe Ikley (19:51):
well, and maybe for some context to Kyle is that
Kyle Okke (19:51):
Good question. It's probably less than you think,
Jason Hanson (19:51):
Come on, Sarah, give us a little credit. It felt
um, I'm, I'm, I could be way.Off. But I'm guessing we're
like it was longer than sixweeks this season.
probably only around that 30,40% of our inputs are weed
control related, at least on theon the on the inputs thing, not
the fixed costs and equipmentand all that rent, but just your
(20:14):
fixed or the the input side ofthings.
you're talking your geographyprimarily one pass, if we can
get away with it for most crops.
Kyle Okke (20:29):
Well, right? But, but usually, that's where the
failures happen. I mean, as longas we're as long as we're
incorporating spring and fallburn downs, usually, then the
one pass in crop, then we'refine with our limited moisture.
Sarah Lancaster (20:44):
well you're all growing season is only like six
weeks long anyway.
Joe Ikley (20:58):
Let me tell you, if it feels a lot longer than six
this year, for sure, but we putthat fall burn down on in
October that'll last us till MaySarah.
Kyle Okke (21:11):
that's the expectation, isn't it? Yep, yes.
And we have to crush everyone'swe have to crush everyone's
hopes and dreams every time theybring that up. Oh, this will
last, right? No, no, it doesn'twork like that.
Joe Ikley (21:26):
All right. Jason, same question, if you can follow
the string of questions,
Jason Hanson (21:32):
yeah. I think the thing that's really stuck out
for most of my guys, Farmerclients that I've talked to is
we're just getting into the endof harvest, I got two corn
fields out. That's it for thewhole year. Otherwise,
everything's off. Some seedcosts. It seems that with the
yields this year, seed costs,particularly corn and soybeans,
(21:54):
are very firm. Fertilizer hasnot moved down like they said it
was supposed to. So that,coupled with just the tail off
of prices, but probably thebiggest thing that I hear from
my farmers is the cost ofrepairs on machinery and the
price of new iron, and how bigof an impact that has, if you
(22:15):
want to upgrade or you have toreplace something, how expensive
it is, and not only the cost,but in some cases, the quality
of the parts that they'regetting has really dropped off.
So I have heard that from fromquite a few people this year.
Now, you know, we ran intothings that this year that were
(22:38):
very unique, and we had sometremendously large winds that
devastated some of our crops,particularly canola. We had some
rain that came at the wrongtime, and we ended with a lot of
sprout in our on our maltbarley. Like I think 10% of my
total barley made malt quality.The rest is feed. I mean, 50 to
(23:01):
60% sprout, so that was one ofour better contracts. And so
people are looking around at,you know, an Omega three canola
last year, malt barleycontracts, our edible bean acres
were way up, so they're kind ofchasing some of that. And then
we just have to see how thatplays out. So then what happens
(23:22):
a lot in that scenario is, is alot of stuff gets left open. So
I think to Sarah's questionabout we had a lot of quality
issues if, if you need we'llmatch your Kansas low pro winter
wheat with some really lowprotein spring wheat. I mean,
let's go head to head, I think.And usually we stick at a, at a,
(23:45):
at a premium, higher protein.That wasn't the case, falling.
Numbers were bad. So it haspeople really nervous, because
they have a in low prices. Yousit with a lot of grain in
inventory. So we're, we're kindof nervous. We're nervous about
that and what it's going to do.I think I spend more mental
energy as a consultant on weedcontrol than my farmer does.
(24:09):
He's willing to do what I tellthem to do, but he's, you know,
this, they go through stageslike all of us, right? If I get
herbicide questions in springwhen I'm doing fertility, it's
like, what? Hold on a secondaryMike. I don't have that part of
my brain working. So with themcoming out of harvest, they're
trying to wrap up some fallfertilizer, get their ditching
(24:31):
done, get the machinerywinterized and put away and just
be done with stuff. So I didn'tsee as much. We talked a lot
about some fall residualprograms, and it didn't happen
because the priority was otherthings. So it's still a pretty
good chunk. I mean, our wheat,our barley, our canola, our
(24:54):
edible beans, all our fungicidecrops. Jeff, we've never sprayed
Corn ever with fungicide uphere. So if that disease comes
in to our spot, that wouldtotally change some things. But
I think I spend more timeworrying about it than my
farmers do. They're at okay, isthis the thing to do? Okay?
(25:17):
Well, let's do it then, allright, but other things get in
the way, and they did this year,which it was a long year, I'm
telling you, every one of us upin the northeast part of the
state, we're just ready to letthe snow fly, put the flannel
on, get the soup pot going, andsee how much beer is in the
fridge. It's that. It's beenthat kind of a season.
Joe Ikley (25:43):
Yeah, no, it comes down to this side or this corner
of the state too. I mean, we, wewent out, we finally got some
fields ready for some fallapplications. We go into some
Farmer Field to chase someweeds. And that finally
happened, this about five daysago, and driving out about an
hour west, just the amount oftractors still in fields in mid
(26:06):
November was eye opening.
Jason Hanson (26:10):
We've been blessed with a very, very long fall
there. There could have, maybe,should have been other stuff
done, but he just can't alwaysspend money, and it's just, it's
just the time of the end of theyear right now.
Joe Ikley (26:25):
All right, so in the next question, unless we kind of
weaved some listen to ouranswers, but maybe it's just
worth asking flat out, to see ifany, any other things pop into
each person's mind. And we'll,we'll serpentine our draft order
again and start with Jason. Soout of everything, we kind of
talked about, how do you balancethose concerns? We'll just say,
on an annual basis, it's not2024, all those different things
(26:49):
you do as an agronomist, foryour for your customers. And
then we did kind of talk aboutthis margins being tight thing
and how that changes theequation. But maybe if anything
in particular pops into yourhead that hadn't already going
into into 2025, and how thoseconversations might be going.
(27:09):
Maybe we can expound on that alittle bit more.
Jason Hanson (27:14):
I my soil sampling was up this year, so that is
that's something that people aregoing to spend to find out where
they're at. So we can figureout, and then we can, we'll
probably adjust as to what'sgoing to happen. We don't know
100% we probably know 70% ofwhat's going to happen, but not
the remaining percents there.And then you just have it comes
(27:38):
down to that farm and theirsituation, and then that field
in its situation, and adjust,and you got to, kind of, kind of
got to have the plan so it's notthere's 42 different
prescriptions out there onstuff, because logistically, you
just open up your chances formore mistakes, not only on the
(28:01):
products, but your math and allthat in crop. So you try to I've
already sat down with one of myguys just to get a game plan of
what we're going to do, and I'massuming that that'll probably
happen here. Between now and theend of the year, there'll be
more of it this year, becauseit's just just tighter
financially.
Joe Ikley (28:22):
Kyle?
Kyle Okke (28:25):
it's, it's very similar to Jason. You know, it's
just, it's just getting somestreamlined plans made, I guess
is, is how we're going to try tonavigate this from this year
into next year, and the and thebest way to look at is, if you
(28:45):
can make a plan, now you couldbudget for it, and then you
really focus more on, you know,where the plan wouldn't work,
you know, once you get inseason. So, like, that's, that's
how I always tackle the weedcontrol program. Is a lot of
these fields you have a historyon, so you know what you're
going to deal with, right? With,right? And so then you lay out
the road map, or the plan forthe weed control, and then you
(29:08):
go, Okay, this is what it'sgoing to cost. And so then we
can put that as an absolutebudget item, and go, where else
do we have to bail out on? Andthen once we get in season, in
crop, then it's looking at,Okay, is there any special
extenuating circumstances thatmake us have to change that
plan? And like Jason said, youtry to streamline it, because if
(29:29):
you have 50 different, you know,plans, recommendations that go
out, you're going to have allkinds of mistakes. So you try to
stream, streamline as much asyou can with this fall burn down
for us is where we get to makesome unique, you know, choices,
or whatever, you know, where arewe going to use, you know, use
(29:50):
just flumioxazin? Are we goingto use sulfentrazone or
metribuzin, or pyroxasulfone andall that? And so I've got
situations where we've. used allthose, cobination of those and
for specific reasons but I odn'tthink we would ever get away
with that in the cropping yearwith how our system works with
(30:13):
minimal passes possible, thatkind of thing.
Joe Ikley (30:21):
right, how about you Jeff?
Jeff Nagel (30:22):
yeah, it's interesting when Kyle and Jason
were in different geographies,but just interesting to hear the
general farm economy, just thetightness of that more and
growers looking at that harder.But yeah, I still think that
that some of the toughconversations are coming up
during prepay, coming up here,around weed control, and what
(30:44):
it's going to take. So, youknow, they, as growers, got into
harvest. They they had goodyields. And so they kind of were
starting to stay with most inthe nutrition program, some
holding back a little bit. But alot of them, you know, went
ahead with eggs. They had goodyields and and they knew that
was part of the key to theirgood yields. The tough
conversation is going to be aswe get into waterhemp, it's
(31:06):
like, I, I've been in thisbusiness a long time, and I've,
I've never seen a weed that it'skind of scary in terms of the
resistance that's developing.And so it's like, we go down
this path of using somethingtill it's broke, right? And then
you have the next thing, andwe're running out of the next
things, and the tools in thetoolbox we're running out of. So
(31:26):
you to get growers to thinkabout, you know, just cultural
practices, row spacing, cropcanopy, you know, maybe some
cover crops to help with weeds,but, and then, and then bringing
in different sites of action,and that's a spin. So, you know,
we're going down this path with,you know, just enlist roundup or
(31:47):
liberty on Flex beans. And so,you know, getting growers to
think about making that spin,spending more money on a
residual and then maybe tankmixing a Dicamba with an HPPD
and corn, like we talked aboutbefore, those are all, those are
all added cost, and that's goingto be a tough conversation of,
(32:07):
like, wanting them to get to dothat, and will they do that? I
mean, and it's going to beimportant that they do, but
that's going to be the toughconversation with it.
Joe Ikley (32:16):
And I think that kind of sets up the next question I
had pretty well. So, so giventhat context, you know what is?
What is something that whenyou're working with your
growers? And we'll, again, we'llstart with Jeff and work
backwards there of somethingthat they need to do to be
successful in weed control. Andyou kind of already mentioned
residual. So I think that may beprobably a common theme. But
(32:37):
we'll, we'll see, as you guysanswer of you know, what's
something that to be successfuldo this and then after that,
it's kind of a negotiation.
Jeff Nagel (32:48):
Yeah, I would agree. It's probably that, you know, we
still have, I would say, more incorn than soybeans, of growers
maybe trying to do like tillagein a one pass post. So, so I
think that that piece that'sthat's really imperative. We
kind of have a five stepapproach to weed control, and
one of those is, you know, startwith, start cleaning the fall,
(33:10):
either effective burn down ortillage, and then use an
effective residual with multiplesites of action at planting
time. And that's a piece thatwe've got to get. We're doing a
pretty good job. I think mostgrowers are recognizing that,
but still room for improvement.And that's just like you, you've
got to be ahead of water hemp.You can't get behind it. And so
(33:30):
we're, we're oftentimes chasingbigger weed. So getting on both
the corn and soybean side and aneffective residual with multiple
sites of action is probably oneof those non negotiable pieces.
One of one of the challenges werun into is early planted
soybeans as a trend, for a goodreason, but, but depending on
the grower size of operation, onthe soybean side, they may just
(33:53):
get in start planting or dotillage and plant. And some of
these PPOs and our pre mix islike the authorities and valors.
It's three days after planting,and that window goes pretty
quick. And so what is a growerback to? Well, back to the
straight group 15, a dual, youknow, a warrant or something.
And we're kind of like, becomingvery dependent on that side of
(34:16):
action. And so that's an issue.And so Joe and Sarah, maybe,
like you mentioned thatmetribuzin, we do some, but we
probably need to start bringingback in higher rates of it. So
it's, it's a combination ofthat, but, but just, I think
that foundation of starting outon those residuals is really
critical.
Joe Ikley (34:37):
So maybe before we come back north, Sarah, you're
not a consultant, but you dealwith pigweeds, slightly
different than waterhemp. Sojust Just curious on your
thoughts, on, you know, howclosely they might mirror what
Jeff just kind of mentioned, asfar as what to say, good results
out of your research program.
Sarah Lancaster (34:59):
Yeah. I mean. You saw me maybe on the video
and nodding along. I thinkthat's, that's pretty much it,
right? Most of our guys aregoing to try to come out with
some sort of either fall, butmore, more than likely, early
spring, largely targeting Koshaand a lot in the western part of
the state, but starting clean,whatever that means. And then,
(35:22):
like you said, the multiplesites of action for residuals. I
was just chatting with kind of asmaller retailer, slash custom
applicator type of guy here atthe end of last week about how
much he likes the flumiax is inpyroxa cell phone, so that
fierce type of combination. AndI would agree, when I kind of
(35:42):
pull all of my trials togetherand soybean trials together and
start looking at like, what aremy top treatments, it's usually
something that includes one orboth of those two products. But
I think you had this study tothe last few years Joe, I have
been just so pleased with thelength of residual control that
(36:03):
I'm getting out of Metrobus andin my soybean studies and and
what that looks like for PalmerAmaranth. I mean, I can't I'm
very pleased with it. I'm notsure our consultant types and
our agronomists are all the wayon board with that. Yet, I think
they're still a littleskeptical, but I think we've got
like eight states worth ofnumbers to show that it's it's
(36:28):
real and it works, and I thinkit's a really good alternative.
No, my concern is one of my petpeeves for this whole what's
successful. Thing is, I think wekid ourselves on corn. I think
we kind of just stop looking forpigweeds and corn after a
certain point, and we assumethat we, you know, we see them
in beans, and they're a problem.And so getting that, that proper
(36:53):
residual down with that postchest and corn, I think, is
something that we probably don'tspend enough time thinking
about, and like, how and whereto use our Atrazine. But, yeah,
I think, I mean, most guys oncorn, they're like, You guys
have alluded they're wanting togo kind of a one pass ish thing,
(37:13):
if they can in corn and so thatthat typically, I think it looks
good until the canopy closes,and then then we start to fall
off a little bit there.
Joe Ikley (37:22):
I don't know you're talking about the North Dakota
pre coming, early post and corn,
Sarah Lancaster (37:29):
right? Like, I think, I think every farmer, if
they could get by with that,like v2 pass and corn and
nothing, you know, early springburn down in that v2 pass, they
do it. But
Jeff Nagel (37:40):
So, Sarah, what rate of metribuzin Are you talking
about that you're having successwith? Yeah,
Sarah Lancaster (37:45):
Yeah so we just summarized some data looking at
metrobusine tank mixes and likeanything that had a half a pound
or even six tenths of a pound ofmetribuzin had really nice
control season long, and thenvery little crop injury.
Numerically, the crop injury wasgreater with this six tenths of
(38:06):
a pound, but not statistically,
Jeff Nagel (38:08):
yeah, I agree. I think I've had that discussion
with Bill and Brian at Purdueand Aaron Hager at University of
Illinois. And I think peoplekind of growers kind of got
concerned about crop responseyears ago. And, you know, we're
not using as much Atrazine, andit we're and we're using some
metrobusiness, but we need to beat higher rates. And that half
(38:28):
pound rate is probably a minimumplace for that, except for our
sands. So that's, I think that'san excellent point.
Sarah Lancaster (38:35):
So one of my concerns is, I think we're going
to start seeing metribuzin creepinto some of the corn market,
and so now, then we're justgoing to be we're going to break
that one too, if we start tolook at it in more places. So
Joe Ikley (38:49):
yeah, we're seeing same thing with Metribuzin. And
I often say, I know North Dakotais in the show me state, but
whatever show me translates intoNorwegian. You could call us
that sometimes. So, so we'vetaken a core group of those
treatments, put them all overthe state, just a crop safety
trial, weed control trial,separated just for the two
(39:12):
different objectives to addressthat concern. So we have a lot
of high pH soils and that, yeah,get burned once in the 80s or
90s, and you don't want to touchtouch that product again, it
seems. But then also thecomplimentary weed control that
we're getting included. We putit didn't make Dickinson, but
headinger and Williston thisyear. So to get us back on track
and out west Kyle, if youremember the heck, the question
(39:35):
I asked a while ago
Kyle Okke (39:37):
was I, yeah, with, with the with the varying crop
rotation, there's differentlike, must haves or non
negotiables, as as I'm going touse that, because you don't like
me using that term, but so, sofirst, if you're going, if
you're going to a minor crop,and I'm just going to call the
miner crop, people laugh outhere calling a minor crop, but
(39:58):
like, if you're going to sun.Hours, if you're going to
lentils, if you're going tochick peas, field peas, trying
to think of a few others. If youknow that's where your rotation
is going, you have to be puttingdown some kind of late fall
residual, not not an Octoberresidual, probably like a late
October, early Novemberresidual. That's part of your
(40:20):
burn down, and you still have todo spring residual so, so for
those crops, that's an absolutemust. If you don't do those
things, you are not going to benear as successful to seen it
firsthand too many times when itcomes to like the bulk of the
acres spring wheat, for me,we're we're dominantly no till,
(40:41):
because we're dry, so we have tobe no till. That's how we're
profitable. It's not a fad, it'snot a soil health thing. It's a
we're playing as dry. And so thesprayer is our tillage tool. And
those that try to get awaywithout a spring burn down are
the ones that always get caughtwith their pants down in spring
(41:01):
wheat and have weeds that aretoo big by the time they get to
their in crop pass. And so it'syour spring burn down is, is
such a big deal and not skimpingon rates? So they don't, they
don't have to be complicated.They don't have to be, you know,
necessarily, a lot of differentmodes of action. You can just
take like or Dicamba, 240,glyphosate in a burn down at
(41:26):
appropriate rates. And you canbe very successful in spring
wheat, because you got so manygood modes of action and tools
to use. Post emergent. But yourMetro using comment, we don't
have a lot of soybeans insouthwest North Dakota. So that
is the crop corn that I amutilizing metribuzin for Fall
(41:46):
burn down in because we needsomething extra from what we
have. I've even watched flumeoxygen, just Kosha blows right
through it. In the poor area, orwhere you have the salinity
areas, the high pH areas, Koshablows right through that. And so
we're doing combinations offlumy and metrobusiness in some
(42:09):
of those areas, looking also atlike self interest, own
metrabusine, just to try to getit in a cropping system that we
don't normally have, because wedo a lot of lot of spring wheat,
lot of corn in rotation and andit doesn't screw up that you
know where you're wearing yourcorn, soybean rotation. I could
(42:29):
see where you're going to burnout. Metribuzin, if you keep
using it every year.
Sarah Lancaster (42:35):
grass rotations that we have in the dry lands
are tough.
Kyle Okke (42:39):
Yeah, yeah. Grass is the tough one, and that's where,
hey. So I'll preface this one.So the one that I mean sometimes
I well, I win the argument mostof the times, or if any one of
the farmers I work with, here'sa laugh, you know, about how,
how much back and forth we haveon some of this. But crop
(43:00):
rotation. Holy crap. Justrotate. If you have grass issues
in the West, it's because yougrow too much wheat and
rotation. Grow something else.Grow, grow a glyphosate tolerant
crop. Be done with it. It is thebest thing you can do to take
care of your grass controlissues is, is get some kind of
(43:21):
if it's soybeans, corn, canola,just get get something. Or if
it's something that you're usingconventional grass chemistry,
like clethodim as a pulse crop,or a sunflower or flax, or
something like that, that's finebecause you're spraying
different timings than you wouldin your wheat. So crop rotation
is a weed control tool without aquestion. And to me, is a non
(43:44):
negotiable thing. Once you havegrass issues, you have to rotate
Joe Ikley (43:52):
some of our worst areas would be if we can see a
glyphosate in the summer once ina while, because otherwise those
group one and group two productsare just we're burning through
them pretty fast when we don'thave glyphosate in that
rotation.
Kyle Okke (44:07):
Yep. And it looks great when, when you do use
glyphosate in the summer, thoseparticular weeds,
Joe Ikley (44:15):
it's all those fun things. You never know what.
Never know what you're going toget when the phone rings,
especially if you don't havetheir number saved. But he goes,
last summer, I got a this glyphstate thing works pretty darn
good. And like, Where are youcalling from? But I like it. It
was northwest corner of thestate. They had Roundup Ready
soybeans for the first time, andwere pretty impressed. All
(44:41):
right? Jason, same, same suiteof questions, I guess.
Jason Hanson (44:45):
yeah that that rotation thing for us is where I
run the into issues, is whereI've got, just based on how far
that farm sits, the fields sitfrom your farm, if it's a two
crop rotation, I have the mostprobably. Comes if it's a three
crop, they drop way down. Ifit's a four crop, I feel really
(45:05):
good about what we're doing tomanage it, just through the
diversity of warm seasonbroadleaf, cool season
broadleaf, warm season grass,cool season grass. So wheat,
canola and soybeans are my threebut when I get the fourth corn
in there, that really changes alot of stuff. So, I mean, I
(45:26):
think there's so much focus onon soybeans, as far as a pre a
couple things I do is I just, Ijust want to go and smash weeds
right in the mouth, right out ofthe gate. No Mercy,
thermonuclear. Drop it. So I I'mbig on I use a lot of sulfanter
zone. All my soybeans and mypeas get matribusin with that. I
(45:52):
feel I get good foliar activityand good residual activity. If
I've got Kosha up at the timeand it's peas, I know I will
drop paraquat in there as well.I'll do the same thing on
soybeans. I have moved all myDicamba application in with the
pre burn down. It's the smallestkosher I contend with. And
(46:16):
people kind of go, whoa. Howmuch that going to cost, like,
if you don't have to deal withit, and all you got to do is
clean up with some Liberty lateron. We don't do you want? You
want the stress earlier? Youwant it late? I'll take let's,
let's get on it right now. Andthis last year, we actually used
some residuals in front ofcereals too, and because of weed
(46:38):
pressure. And that worked outreally well. I'm moving back in
my corn. I'm going to try to,almost all our week gets hppds
and barley so I'm going to goback to true pre burn down with
Atrazine, glyphosate andwhatever type of product we're
using to get on that stuff earlywe got, we kind of got behind
(47:00):
that eight ball a little bit onsome of that corn this year
because we were so wet. So Idon't seem to get much pushback
on that, because I part of thereason that I'm hired, I can
three farms that they have a lotof Kosher to deal with, so just
having me there to help themmanage with it. If it makes it
(47:20):
look better. It makes it harvestbetter. They're content with
that. So we have to do what wehave to do. In some cases, it's
if you're looking at me to saveyou money. I'm also here because
I can make you money. And thenyou just got to talk through
those scenarios,
Joe Ikley (47:39):
Gotta spend money to make money.
Jason Hanson (47:43):
I mean, there's no doubt we'll have. The
conversations will be, where canwe it's, there'll be more
discussions about where thoseplaces we can or should cut. And
so I always like to lay out alike, this is the worst case
scenario, and then it it's aboutif we can adjust. That means
there's intense, just theintensity of scouting, and then
(48:05):
I have to know that we're goingto do what we said we're going
to do in that time frame,because that's where things can
get out of whack. Well, we wentand did this, and we couldn't
get over there and do that. Oh,now we're in trouble. Now that
little bit we thought we werespending is going to get more
expensive.
Joe Ikley (48:22):
All right, I had a couple questions left, but I'm
seeing the time. I'm going tojump to the bottom of my list,
and we're going to ask theuncomfortable question that
Sarah and I are probably alreadytired of, and it hasn't really
begun yet. So here's mydisclaimer of the day at time of
recording at November 18, 20243:01pm, Central Time. It still
(48:46):
looks very unlikely that we willhave Xtendimax or Engenia or
tavium registered for the 2025season. If that isn't a player
in your geography, I'm justcurious. Have those
conversations begun, and whatdoes that even looked like? And
I'm going to also buck the trendhere, and we're going west to
east, so we're starting withKyle on this one.
Kyle Okke (49:10):
Well, there's still plenty. One of my, one of my
clients, throws a lot ofsoybeans and, and, like Jason
had said, Uh, well, and, andJeff too. You know, our pre
program was full rate ofingenia, our metribuzin rates a
little different. We wererunning third pound rates, self
entry zone, glyphosate in thatburn down. And when we had all
(49:35):
of that in there, we didn'treally have a lot of we don't
have pigweed there, so we're notreally worried about say, like
your group 15 is in the mix, butall we had to do is one one pass
of liberty with a second touchup pass of liberty, you get just
a few areas, and we absolutelyhad excellent control on our
coach issues. So if we loseDicamba as a tool like I still
(49:58):
feel like that's a reallycritical part of. Our pre emerge
firm done and residual. So ifwe, if we lose Dicamba, that's
going to be tough, because whatyou're allowed, eight ounces, 30
days before planting, that'sjust not going to do it.
Joe Ikley (50:15):
You know, that's, that's, that's geography
dependent. If you get less than25 inches of rain, like we do.
It's 120 days.
Kyle Okke (50:23):
Yeah, there you go. So that's like, yeah, not going
to work for us, yeah? So that's,it's going to be tough. So then,
so then that's probably wherefor us, even though the group
fifteens aren't as effective,let's say on couch show would be
the main, main weed we're after.It's going to have to be
introduced in there to haveanother mode of action. So mode
(50:44):
of action and and that'sdefinitely going to be a more
expensive mode of action tointroduce. But to me, like
that's if you're going to besuccessful in soybeans, you're
going to have to have, you haveto have all this stuff stacked.
If you're not stacking all thesemodes of action, you're just not
going to get the control youneed.
Joe Ikley (50:59):
How You about you Jason?
Jason Hanson (51:07):
here's what's going to happen. Okay, it might
not get written down, but itwill get talked about. And the
risk to me, I got guys that haveEngenia in inventory because
they, they went out and boughtit last year, and we, we didn't,
(51:27):
because of our pre mix was sogood, they still got excess
inventory of that. If thatproduct isn't allowed to go on
that crop, say, post, I willtell you that there'll be plenty
of Dicamba that will go out in apre emerge scenario, whether
that is those three products orothers. And the risk to me is
(51:48):
that time of the year is somuch, so much cooler that I
don't I don't put it on postemerge anymore. I wish that that
label would have been a preonly. We would not be talking
about this at all. We'd havelike, Oh my gosh. I didn't
realize it would be that good,because it is that good. So is
that you don't have to edit thispart out. But that is, I'm not
(52:16):
going to have any day. I did nothave any Dicamba. I got sprayed
foliarly This year at all,because it was all at a
different time frame, and itworked so much better. And I
rely on my glufosinate to tidyup things, and that that's the
other part, is making sureyou're doing everything possible
to make glufosinate into theproduct that it is, so that
(52:40):
you're not short changing it inany way, shape or form, because
that's like, that's the backstopthat we got now that's gone.
We're in deep trouble.
Joe Ikley (52:53):
And that's, that's part of the uncomfort and hard
conversations of you know,there's what's labeled and
what's on inventory and whathappens in the real world. So
maybe we'll make a quick pitstop at my office, since as you
quickly transition from Jason toFargo type area, we do get to a
(53:13):
lot more enlist beans as we gofrom primarily kosher into a
much more water hemp ragweedterritory, and we've and there's
the those who grow extend,extend flex beans, it's going to
be a very hard conversation.Probably has been in seed sale
season already, but those whogrow enlisted. It hasn't been an
issue for them. And so Iprobably standard operating
(53:35):
procedure, but just just showingas we get more into this corner
of the state and more into wherewaterhemp and ragweed dominates,
and list platform is a muchbigger foothold, primarily for
those weeds. So less of adifficult conversation
throughout the winter months,maybe a quick pit stop in Kansas
(53:55):
before Jeff's comments.
Sarah Lancaster (53:59):
So my take on the current situation is that,
well, first off, we're probablyas a state 6040, ish in terms of
enlist to extend on the mix. Ithink most of the guys that were
on the fence and could be swayedfrom extend to enlist have moved
(54:21):
so I don't think there's goingto be any switching systems. The
comments that I've gotten whenI've kind of quizzed guys what
their plans are, basicallythey're planning on liberty as
their post, right? Like that'stheir post plan to Jason's
points and to your comment, whatactually happens this summer?
(54:47):
I'm sure we'll be able to tellafter the fact, but at this
point, I think you know those,those flex extend flex programs,
are counting on liberty to carrythe load. Post
Joe Ikley (55:02):
which that doesn't make a weed scientist nervous,
does it? Sarah, nah,
Sarah Lancaster (55:06):
I love that answer, Joe, I guess we should
look at it as job security. All
Joe Ikley (55:15):
All right, let's finish in the eastern Corn Belt.
Yeah, I
Jeff Nagel (55:17):
would say we're a bit like Sarah's. We probably
have maybe a 6040, split e3 toextend flex, maybe. And it
varies on the area. Pockets aregoing to be heavier e3 some
pockets heavier flex. But we'vebeen kind of, I guess,
transitioning a little bit outof Dicamba, good, a good tool.
But to Jason's point on thebaggage of that in crop
(55:38):
application and off target is,is challenging, especially in
retail, and you know, that'sjust a tough situation. So we
are going to on our e3platforms. We're going to we're
going to lead this year withenlist Liberty tank mix. We've
been seeing some more morevariable control out of enlist
glyphosate. And we think there'ssome reasons for that, that
(56:01):
we're heading down a path that'snot good. So we're going to try
to lead with that tank mix postemergence on the flex beans,
we're going to it's Liberty likeSarah, like way, that's what we
got. So, so we did have alittle, a little bit
experimental use of PPOs withLiberty last year. Didn't really
seem to, I don't know, added alot to it so, but you know,
(56:23):
we've had this rate creep onliberty. You know, when you
know, we started down this path,we were 22 ounces, and then
we're 29 and we're 32 and guesswhat? We're we just met with
some with BASF, and we're goingto lead with 36 ounces this
year, right? So that's kind oftelling you something. We know
it's more environmentallysensitive on things, but that
(56:43):
makes this concern, you know,where we have one site of action
post emergence, so that'ssomething we have to be smart
about in terms of the residualdown and overlapping residuals
in crop.
Joe Ikley (56:57):
So Jason Kyle, take note, because they get a lot
more consistent humidity therethan we do.
Jason Hanson (57:03):
Yeah, I know I was thinking about that.
Kyle Okke (57:08):
Now we have plenty of inconsistent control of liberty.
Joe Ikley (57:15):
All right. Well, one final thing I did want to do is
provide everyone a chance to letthe listeners know where we can
find them if you want to befound. And I know Kyle and
Jason, you guys have got yourall your handles at the ready.
So we'll, we'll, we'll startwith Kyle again. That was fun
last time. So, so any socialmedia handles, websites anywhere
(57:37):
to find you? Yeah, so
Kyle Okke (57:39):
social media. I'm only a very lightly active
person there, but if you want tofind me on every platform, it's
@OkkefromMuskogee. So it's, it'sa play on my last name, so it's
O, k, k, e, not ok, i e, but OKfrom Muskogee, you can find me
on the socials, and then Jasonand I also do this podcast
(58:03):
called the agronomist happy hourtogether, which we've taken a
few month hiatus because it'sbeen a busy year, but we're
getting back on that horse, andwe'll be posting stuff here or
putting new content out hereshortly.
Joe Ikley (58:17):
Jason?
Jason Hanson (58:19):
Yeah You'll find me at Rock and Roll agronomy, R
O, C K, the letter N, R O L, andthen agronomy is spelt. Since I
used Twitter to begin with, theylimited it, so it's kind of
spelled a little different. Butif you start at R O, C, K, N, R
O L, L, you'll find me on justabout every platform there. And
then, if you want to see what wedo in the winter time, you just
(58:41):
look up our website, agronomy onice.com and what we do is the
same thing we're doing heretoday, only in an ice house on a
lake. So it's you can nerd outyear round.
Sarah Lancaster (58:57):
And that question Jason is, do I have
warm enough footwear to hang outin an ice house, to talk about
killing pigweeds.
Jason Hanson (59:03):
Oh yeah, yeah, okay, the food, the list of
food, you won't go hungry, andthere's plenty antifreeze, 12
ounce antifreeze.
Joe Ikley (59:15):
All right then, Jeff, I'm sorry I didn't, didn't
prompt you for this question.But any, any websites or social
media, if people want to findyou and reach out,
Jeff Nagel (59:23):
yeah, I would say the easiest way to be the Google
Keystone cooperative, and youcan get to some the website
there, and then to someresources that several of us
agronomists are on there. So,
Joe Ikley (59:35):
all right, perfect. Well, I do want to thank all
three of you for coming on funconversation. Want to thank the
listeners as always, and we willcatch you next time on the war
against weeds podcast.
(59:55):
As always, we thank you forlistening to the war against
weeds podcast. Just. Anotherreminder, you can find our
podcast hosted on the CropProtection Network, or CPN, for
short. So this is another greatresource that's driven by
extension scientists atdifferent universities for pest
management. And with that, wewill see you next week on the
war against weeds podcast. You.
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