May 7, 2025 • 50 mins
This week we have Ngaio Richards, Amber Burch, and Josh Wagoner on to talk about how the Early Detection, Rapid Response Program in collaboration with the Working Dogs for Conservation utilizes dogs to find noxious weeds. They talk about their work in controlling Dyer’s Woad in Montana, as well as other noxious weeds that the dogs are trained to identify.
Our guests provided some really great resources for anyone who might be interested, as well as the gear they use for protecting their dogs in the field.
https://outfoxfordogs.com/?srsltid=AfmBOoqp6TYSdqp7PEZGM-vYndGKwt5W1W-PHpExvhYuHjQaHCqhzNoL
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joe Ikley (00:07):
Welcome back to the war against weeds Podcast. I'm
Joe Ikley, extension WeedScientist at North Dakota State
University. My co-host today isAlyssa Essman. Alyssa, how are
things in Ohio?
Alyssa Essman (00:20):
Things are going well. We just planted our first
soybean trials. We're lookingforward to field season, and
it's really looking forward tothis episode, I have to say it's
one of the more fun andinteresting topics we've had, I
think, on the podcast.
Joe Ikley (00:32):
yeah. So I'm also excited for this one. It's, it's
tax day, and we're recording. Sowe figured we'd have some
government officials on, I guessthings just kind of lined up
that way. But we're going to goaround the horn introduce we
have three guests today forwhat's going to be a very
exciting topic for certainly,anyone who loves dogs, that's
how I'll tease this up. Sofirst, we're going to start with
(00:52):
Josh Wagner. Josh, why don't youtell the people who you are,
what you do, and why we're heretoday?
Josh Wagner (00:59):
I'm Josh Wagner. I'm the Montana Department of
Agriculture's noxious weed earlydetection Rapid Response
Coordinator. I work oncollaborative projects across
the state and surrounding statesand provinces on the highest
priority new invaders. And Iheard your podcast a while back
that mentioned the fantasy ofhaving dogs looking for weeds
(01:22):
and riding in the truck withyou, and I reached out because I
knew you, because I'm a big weednerd, and said, Hey, we do that.
Joe Ikley (01:29):
And that was the witchweed episode from the fall.
So we've been working on pullingguests together for this one for
for a while. Now, with that,we'll go to the next guest,
Amber Burch,
Amber Burch (01:42):
good morning. Amber Burch, I am officially the weed
coordinator for BeaverheadCounty. Beaverhead county is in
the southwest corner of Montana,right along the Montana Idaho
border. We actually have alittle town called monida.
Monida is Montana and Idahocombined. Sorry about that. So
(02:03):
I'm also the Project Coordinatorfor the Montana dyers woad
cooperative project, which wasstarted back in the early 80s.
The cooperative project isfocused on managing dyers woad
in the state of Montana with theintent of hopefully eradicating
or seriously reducing, which wehave definitely accomplished,
(02:25):
the number of plants in thestate keeping it from spreading
dyers woad is a top priorityweed in in the state, and we
have a great team that's that'sworking in managing that
specific plant In the in the state.
Joe Ikley (02:41):
Perfect. And then the last guest Ngaio Richards.
Ngaio Richards (02:44):
hi. I'm a canine handler and field biologist for
working dogs for conservation,which is a Montana based non
profit. And this year marks our25th year anniversary, which is
great. I've been with workingdogs for conservation Since 2011
and I'm the lead on our end ofthe dyers woad work. My current
(03:08):
title is forensics and fieldspecialists, but I was hired on
as the first canine fieldspecialist for the organization,
which was essentially anapprenticeship. And we partner
with dogs to find pressingconservation targets. So that
includes, of course, noxiousweeds like dyers woad. But the
(03:31):
targets we seek with the dogsrange from animal scat or poop
occupied burrows and dens toanimals themselves, just to name
the few. And the targets that wesee can be native, non native,
and sometimes both.
Joe Ikley (03:47):
We'll get into more detail on that later, because Dr
Essman looks like she's readyfor all sorts of dog questions.
But before we get there, sowe've mentioned Dyer's woad,
just wanted to maybe take alittle bit of step back and just
focus on noxious weeds inMontana, and so maybe more
pointed towards Josh and Amberon this one. But which ones you
know? Which are the ones thatkeep you up at night? Big State,
(04:09):
lot of weeds, I'm sure. So whatare your most problematic ones?
Josh Wagner (04:13):
You say, keep you up at night? That's exactly how
I feel about it. I really am abig weed nerd. I think about it
at work, and I think about it athome, and I think the one that
concerns me most in Montana isrush skeleton weed. There's 4
million acres of it in Idaho.There's about 4000 acres of it
(04:34):
in Montana, and we work hard tokeep it that way. It's really it
causes about $60 million a yearof direct losses and grain crops
in Washington. So we don't wantto get that into our golden
triangle. Invasive Phragmites isone that looks like it's going
to be big on my radar thiscoming season. We only had a
(04:55):
couple populations of that upuntil 2023. And now we're
starting to see more of that.And we have 36 weeds on our
list, and I focus on about 20 ofthem, not necessarily all of
them are on our list, but not asa invasive annual grass. That's
a big concern. Medusa head,yeah, there's a lot. I could
(05:16):
talk about it for a long time,but let somebody else go.
Joe Ikley (05:21):
Amber, similar picture in your in the southwest
corner,
Amber Burch (05:24):
yeah, I totally agree with Josh, especially on
Rush skeleton weed. Rushskeleton weed, there's a ton of
it in Idaho, being a borderCounty, we only have a couple of
sites in the in our county thatare, you know, four or five
years ago was the last time wefound any plants. And so we see
ourselves as kind of the firstline of defense from from
(05:47):
getting it into Montana, atleast in the southwest corner,
Northwest corners, definitely adifferent story for rush
skeleton weed in the state. Butyeah, we're, trying to be that
first line of defense to keep itfrom spreading further.
Fortunately, we have theContinental Divide, so it's,
it's super, super high,mountainous range that hopefully
(06:11):
it won't come over as fast as itdoes in some other parts of the
state. Also ventenata is huge.So that invasive annual grass,
we think of cheatgrass as beingbad. I call ventenata, the red
headed step sister ofcheatgrass, because it, it's,
yeah, it's bad stuff. Sodefinitely those, those high
(06:31):
priority weeds, are those, andthen the day to day, we have a
lot of hounds, tongue, Canadathistle, obviously, is is
everywhere, especially anywherewet. Spotted Knapweed is pretty
widespread in the state. Andthen leafy spurge, those are
probably the big ones that aremore widespread. So when you
(06:52):
think of early detection, rapidresponse and those high
priorities we're we're lookingat Rush skeleton weed, dyers
woad, blueweed is another onethat is just really important to
keep from spreading.
Josh Wagner (07:05):
The farmers and ranchers here call leafy spurge
that that North Dakota weed.It's one of our most common
ones. And I guess another one wealways thought was going to come
from North Dakota, that we'rekind of the last state standing
in the lower 48 is palmaramaranth or waterhemp. It just
hasn't established here yet, andit's blown up everywhere. And
(07:29):
that's another reason why I'mfamiliar with Joe's work and
admire what he does.
Joe Ikley (07:34):
least tell you where we, uh, you've got us on pins
and needles about Ventennata. Sowe're, we're happy to explore,
not happy to exchange weeds.What we do anyways, I guess. But
both of you had mentioned earlydetection, rapid response. And
so, you know, Montana, justbeing a large state, I wanted to
kind of transition to some ofthe monitoring challenges they
have for these noxious weeds.And maybe we'll kind of stick
(07:57):
with Amber on the the regionallevel before looking at Josh's
view on the state level?
Amber Burch (08:02):
Yeah, well, I have a little bit of the state level,
specifically for the woadproject. That's probably where I
have the most experience. Butbeaverhead county is also the
largest county in the state. Ithink it's like 5700 square
miles. I think that's right,it's huge. And so limited crews,
(08:24):
limited time, are the biggestissues with monitoring and
getting out. We're also, Ithink, 62% public land in
Beaverhead County, so there'sjust, there's a lot of ground to
cover. So that's probably thebiggest challenge with any kind
of monitoring. As far as thedyers woad project, we have an
(08:46):
incredible task force. So it's agroup of people from all of the
counties involved. It is astatewide project, and so all of
the counties are involved. TheAgency, folks that are a part of
the those areas are alsoactively involved. They help by
going out and looking at thoseareas. I go out and look at
(09:09):
areas. Josh goes out, and we alljust work together as a team to
make sure that we're coveringall of that. And then we have
data for the dyers woad projectclear back to 1999 at all those
sites, we actually countindividual plants. We have those
records, and even broke downinto growth stage, rosette,
(09:31):
seeding or flowering. So thatwhen we can also kind of track,
I guess, different stages, we'reseeing better management in
different stages and when totarget. Ngaio has some good
thoughts on that as well.
Josh Wagner (09:48):
I'll just say, with my job, it's all about and I
guess all of our jobsrelationships. I get out and
speak a couple times a monthacross the state. I know people
everywhere. I. Think everyone inMontana knows people everywhere.
You can't get away with anythingin Montana. You can't be a bad
person, because your reputationwould spread. But it's really
(10:10):
just making partnerships andeyes on the ground. And
Joe Ikley (10:16):
that's where I wanted to go to next. So we mentioned
or alluded to the dyers woadproject. And I want to know what
the you know, what point didthis relationship with the
working dogs for conservationbegin? And then we'll kind of
turn over to everything greatthat that organization does.
Amber Burch (10:32):
So to start, the very first time we had dogs on
dyers woad was back in 2007 wasmy first year as the project
lead, and we had, is it? Alicewhite law, which is a co founder
of working dogs forconservation, was working with
Kim Goodwin from MSU. We had himdown in the snow line site,
(10:56):
which is almost on theContinental Divide in Beaverhead
County, found that supereffective tool. Couple years
later, we really startedutilizing the dogs in multiple
sites, and we really can tell apretty cool story of when the
dog started working in areas andhuge reductions in the number of
(11:21):
plants that we find. So it'sbeen, it's been a long time
since, since 2007 I don't knowhow I can't do that math in my
head quite that fast, but yeah,it's, it's been a very cool
partnership that has seenamazing results in our efforts
Joe Ikley (11:40):
maybe be good, just to kind of go through that, and
I'll maybe just Amber, and Ngaiojust have you guys have a
dialog, and Alyssa and I can sitback for a while.
Ngaio Richards (11:50):
This story that we often use, just because it's
so kind of black and white, ison Mount Sentinel, which is one
of our sites. So that's theother thing that's really fun
and challenging. And a good wayabout this work is that we have
sites that are hundreds of milesapart, you know, to the north,
(12:11):
around the Kalispell orwhitefish area, we've got a site
and each site, and then we'vegot the most southerly ones,
just on the pretty much on theborder with Idaho. And in the
middle we have mount Sentinel,which is, you know, beloved
recreational spot in Missoula.It's about 200 acres across the
(12:32):
face, and it's been divided upin different zones over the
years. And initially, you know,we did the pilot. We're
comparing just a human, onlyobserver, and then the dog
teams. And what we found wasthat the dogs, the dogs and the
handlers, you know, supported bythe handlers, were able to find
(12:52):
plants from further away andmore quickly, before they
reached the dreaded reproductivestage, you know, before they
went became went into floweringand seeding, and just in terms
of the numbers in the firstyear, so you know, looking at
about five or 600 plants, a lotof them large leafy rosettes, a
(13:13):
lot of them In that flowering orseeding stage. And over time,
we've, you know, we've reducedthe area to known hotspot zones
where we're finding, sometimesmaybe three or four plants, like
tiny, tiny rosettes. And that'sjust because we are perched at
those seed banks. We've gotthose all mapped out. We're just
(13:35):
waiting for those little shootsto come out, and then we we pull
them. Another thing that wasreally neat that we we talk
about just in terms of the theway that the dogs, the finds we
make with the dogs, can helpweed management efforts, is that
there, there was one particularteam where the dog kept
(13:56):
alerting, and the handler wasn'tseeing anything, but she was,
you know, of course, the dog wasvery insistent, and she she
marked those areas, and thenwhen they returned a few weeks
later, they found these tiny,tiny rosettes. So the dog was
actually alerting to thepresence of the remnant roots.
(14:17):
And as a result of that, thatmeant more targeted herbicide
applications, as opposed to justhand pulling. So there's an
awful lot to be learned from thepartnership with the dogs. But I
just, I just have to say whatAmber and Josh have been saying.
Just reiterate, because I was ata gathering with a dog a few
(14:38):
weeks ago, a gathering for theMontana Conservation Corps crew
to launch the season. And youknow, they're just asking a bit
about the work we do, and theykept touching on love of the
land and sense of community. AndI have to say, you. For me,
personally, what runs through. Imean, of course, the dogs front
(15:00):
and center for us, but also justlove of the land and that sense
of community, because we do alot of international work, but
there is nothing more meaningfulto me than doing the work right
in your own I mean, literallyfor me, it's right in my own
backyard. You know, I can seeMount Sentinel as we're talking.
Amber Burch (15:22):
And when Ngaio is talking small rosettes, we're
talking like pinky finger sizerosettes that we as human with a
visual, we would never see ituntil it's five times bigger.
But these dogs are keying in andtelling us when they're they're
(15:42):
teeny tiny. So when you'retalking eradication and trying
to relative eradication withinthat site, you have to get every
single plant and the dogs allowus to be able to to do that really.
Alyssa Essman (16:00):
So in terms of detection, is it primarily site,
or is it scent, or is it all ofthe above that the dogs use to
detect these weeds?
Ngaio Richards (16:10):
It's primarily scent, but there can be a bit of
a there can be a bit of a visualfor the dogs, but I'm glad
Amber, you mentioned that pointabout the tiny, Pinky sized
rosettes and and also thequestion in terms of the visual,
because Amber and I were walkingalong on survey with this very
fastidious Border Collie namedSeamus, and noticed he wasn't
(16:33):
with us, and turned around andhe was sitting very intently at
this funky looking plant. Andyou know, we were both like,
what, what? And he just wasadamant, why are you doing good
people? And so we, you know, wepulled it and sent it off Amber
sent it off for DNAconfirmation. And sure enough,
it was woad. But again, just interms of we are such visual
(16:57):
creatures. And, of course, weare supporting the dog in their
scent detection. But we also,you know, we have eyes and and
we know what these plants looklike, but that's been a really
that was an unexpected benefitof working with the dogs, is
that all of a sudden we startedto build in. We realized that,
(17:18):
like, you know, based on, like Isaid before, the each different
site has its own kind of microclimate. Each each site where we
work is very different, whichcan, you know, require different
dogs, sometimes different sizedogs. And along with those
differences, come differences inwhat the plant looks like. And I
(17:39):
mean, these, these, we we have,you know, because we're nerdy
about these things, we have puttogether sort of indices that
show, like, here's what Dyer'swoad looks like up Mount
Sentinel. This is textbookdyer's woad, but only at Mount
Sentinel, because over here,because there's, you know,
different drainage, whatever youcan get these crinkly, waxy
(18:03):
looking leaves. So evensometimes, when the plants are
large, you know, not Pinky size,you wouldn't even know that
that's what you were looking at.But thanks to the dogs. Now, now
we do now I look for those typesof things as well.
Amber Burch (18:20):
We kind of do the same thing at in at the
sweetgrass county site, becauseit's so, so different. We'll get
into an area and it's like, youknow, we're not 100% sure
visually, is that? Is that woad?And so we'll actually, we'll
bring the dog over into thatarea and have him just check and
(18:40):
make sure that yes or no, kindof give us that confirmation.
Joe Ikley (18:45):
Now I do have to hear the description of what a day
working with these dogs in thefield look like. Just pull up on
a on a four by four and just goto town, just walk through, walk
us through a day of a field.Visit.
Ngaio Richards (18:59):
I have some Well, first of all, I have to
say it's it. I think it's thebest job in the world, but it's
also nowhere near as glamorousas as a lot of people think it
is. I mean, I just I think Amberhas probably seen me wearing the
exact same pants and jacketevery autumn that at that sweet
grass site. But I have aparticularly fun memory of going
(19:21):
in with the yellow lab, theclassic yellow lab in this
wishful story you guys weretalking about before, named
Tobias, and it was muddy, and wehad just a great time. Three
hours in the field. You know, wewere coming back, and we looked
over, and he had his head overthis side, and when he turned
back to us, half of his face wasjust complete mud, and he was
(19:45):
his tongue was loaded out. Hewas just so happy. He was having
a good time. It was like thebest reward for all his hard
work. You know, in terms of atypical day, it's a. But in the
summer months, when it's hot, sothere's, there's managing
temperature for the dogs,welfare and comfort and but
there's also managing for thebest olfactory conditions, like,
(20:08):
when is the scenting going to bethe best for the for the dogs?
And so in the in the summermonths, we can be up at between
four and five. And then,depending on where we're going,
like on Mount Sentinel, it cantake us about 45 minutes to an
hour just at some of those moreelevated start points, just to
get to that start surveylocation. Then we'll be out
(20:31):
there for a few hours. And thething about working with the
dogs is you have to be reallypresent. It's like time kind of
stands still. You get them intotheir work vest. You know, you
may fiddle with all your packand everything, and then when
you say, Okay, let's find it,it's like it switches on
something in your own brain. Soyou know, you're out there, and
(20:55):
either you're feeling likeyou're getting very good
coverage, even if you're notmaking lots of finds or any
finds. And that's the same thescenario increasingly on Mount
Sentinel and in some otherplaces, is we're finding less so
then you want to make sureyou're getting good coverage,
and then by the end of it, youknow, you we get back down to
(21:18):
our start point, and we're justmaking sure we're doing body
checks or making sure that forthe safety of the dog, you know,
they don't some of thosecheatgrass and others, you know,
they're designed to embed intothe fur of whatever creature, so
we don't that can be reallyhazardous for the dogs. So, you
know, we're checking paws, we'rechecking the coat. But we also
(21:42):
don't want to be vectors. Solike, you know, I'm looking at
my boots and all that kind ofthing. And then it's a matter of
getting back and, you know,crunching numbers on a
spreadsheet and getting the dogsettled in, making sure the dogs
resting and hydrated and allthat. So some, some days can be
pretty, pretty short, like,really, really start maybe five
(22:05):
hours, and other days can be 12hours of just going, but it's
all around making sure that thesurvey was well executed, like
you felt like, we went into thisarea and we really, we really
covered it, well, cleared it,and also just making sure that
the dog is in a great state ofmind from start to finish.
Alyssa Essman (22:25):
In terms of management, you've mentioned a
couple things. You've mentionedpulling and herbicide
applications, and I just, I'mcurious, kind of what, what is
your management strategy? Isthat something the handlers are
responsible for, or does someonecome back later? Or what's that
look like?
Amber Burch (22:40):
So as a project, Dyer's woad has an accelerated
growth rate, so it can grow upto four inches in a week. So we
try to get to sites as often aswe can through the growing
season. Anything that is beyonda rosette stage, we pull if it's
in a rosette a lot of times,we'll leave it, and then we'll
(23:01):
treat with herbicide. If we havethe dogs in the area, obviously
we don't treat we don't want totreat where the dogs are going
to be, and so we'll let themclear an area. And then if we
need to do a herbicideapplication, we do it once
they've exited the site, buttypically a combination of hand
(23:21):
pulling and then follow upherbicide treatments. And we do
anything that we pull, we removefrom the site as well, because
the plant could have enoughenergy to go ahead finish out
set seed, and we just don't.This is eradication project, and
so we're really wanting to notleave any chance of plants going
(23:43):
and finishing out.
Ngaio Richards (23:45):
I would add, sometimes we talk about what's
optimal use of detection dogsfor different applications, and
in an ideal world, an optimalapplication might be diminishing
density, you know, because it itcan be overwhelming for a dog in
an area where there's just ahuge amount of growth, you know,
(24:06):
because you can see them likeit's everywhere. But the thing
that's really great about beingpart of this project is that
this is also an all hands ondeck situation, you know. So if
I'm in the Lima snow line area,I try to settle in there for a
week with the dog, you know, andlet Amber know where we're
(24:29):
going. And in case, you know,somebody catches wind, maybe an
infestation, or something, youknow, to be able to just go
there and look. And thensometimes also, I'll do some
pulling, and then we might wantto go back again in a few days
and just see what else might bethere. Just to be as thorough as
(24:50):
possible,
Joe Ikley (24:52):
focus, I guess maybe a little bit more on on the dogs
themselves. Now, because I heardyou mention a Border Collie, and
now you the lab, so I. And alsomentioned some sites require
dogs of different sizes. So I'mjust, you know, is it basically
any dog that that you can train,or there's certain breeds that
are better suited for this typeof work?
Ngaio Richards (25:14):
Well, I'm happy to tell you, I mean, so on this
project, we have had, you know,German Shepherds, yes, Border
Collies labs. At the moment, wehave, if you want to run the
gamut, we have a pit bull and aGolden Retriever, among among
others. It's not, it's not anydog. These are, these are dogs
(25:34):
that show certaincharacteristics, for certain
willingness, for detection,work, drive, associated with
searching, finding, identifyingtargets, and they so there are
some characteristics that welook for, but it's not really
breed specific, it's really,does this individual dog show
(25:56):
these traits? And then we'll wedo some vetting. A lot of our
dogs come from shelters, whichis really important, because a
lot of times these dogs are, Imean, they're not, they're they
are wonderful, but they are notgreat pets. You know, they're
(26:16):
bossy, they're in your face.And, I mean, not just boss seen
in your face. I mean, it's hard.You just would have to
experience how obnoxious it canbe. Just, well, let up. And so,
I mean, I think that'smarvelous. But you know, if ever
I have friends over, who, myGod, this dog is alive, and
realize, oh, it's not. It'sreally not that these kinds of
dogs are not for everybody. So,yes, we we select them very
(26:42):
carefully, and then there's awhole screening preliminary
stage. And if they, you know,and they progress further and
further, and sometimes theydon't want the job, or they
don't have as much drive, ordifferent things, at which point
we will make sure to re homethem, find them the best, most
(27:05):
appreciative home. Otherwise,yes, it's a lot of a lot of
different breeds, a lot of mixedbreeds. It's really the
characteristics, and then alsothat comes into play, like, what
kind of target would this dog bewell suited to find. And so for
some of the sites, like our siteup by whitefish, there's a
(27:28):
really slender strip right by aguardrail where our partner up
there calls it ground zero. It'swhere there's just there has
been a lot of growth in thepast. And so for that, you know,
a lot of these dogs are veryboisterous, and so the last
thing you want is, like a, youknow, a large body, wiggly dog.
(27:50):
And so the pit bull, she's gotdwarfism, so she's especially
petite, and she's a reallyfantastic candidate for that
site. And we have, we haveanother, I think he's got some
Border Collie in him, and healso is very, very good at that
site.
Joe Ikley (28:08):
So I am curious about the training, how, what, what
does the training? TrainingProgram is, what I would call
it, I guess, for for these dogslook like as they become
specialized in detecting. Inthis case, we can start with
wood, but I do want to go intoall the other things that that
they are utilized for.
Ngaio Richards (28:25):
When they're introduced to a target, it's in
a controlled setting, just toremove, you know, make it
simple, straightforward, andit's just associating the scent
and the recognition of thatscent with getting a reward. And
so just to go back a bit tocharacteristics, you know there
are, there are some dogs who,you know, love to find things
(28:50):
and love to search, but aren'tnecessarily very inclined to
tell you about that or tointeract with someone. And so as
you progress from the trainingstage, where the dog is like,
Oh, yes, okay, if I this scent,gets me a toy or gets me treats.
And then moving into a realworld scenario, as we often call
(29:10):
it, then you also want a dog asyou're you know, you go into a
field, and the dog not only isgoing to find it, but is also
going to sit or tell you in someother way. Here it is, and want
to interact with the handler forthat reward. So, so in the
simplest possible terms, it'sjust here is the scent that we
are concerned about when yourecognize it that is associated
(29:36):
with a reward. And that is thething too about these dogs and
maybe makes them, you know, lessgray pets, is that they are
really that's what they want allthe time, is just give me that
reward, reward, reward, reward.
Joe Ikley (29:52):
And so how many would say an individual dog that that
gets utilized, and how manydifferent weed species? Or other
things, will that one dog beable to focus in on? Is it like
a a daily thing you here's,here's the scent we're looking
for today, and we can go thatway? Or is it just, is it more
limited than that?
Ngaio Richards (30:11):
Well, um, the first, I guess part of the
answer to that question is thatthese dogs have the capacity to
acquire huge number of scents intheir portfolio, if you want to
call it that, we have had dogson 10,20, 30 different scents.
But there's a bit of a strategyto it, in that we want the
(30:31):
targets to be complimentary ornot interfere with some work,
you know. So if you have a dogwho's who is assigned or starts
to be doing a certain kind ofwork, you want to make sure that
any subsequent targets are notgoing to interfere in some, in
some way, there's, there's waysof working around that, but
(30:53):
ideally, and it's not they don'tneed, you know, like a daily
reminder necessarily there theycan be very contextual. And so,
for example, a lot of after atime of returning to different
places, you can see that the dogis like, oh, yeah, this is, you
know, because, because they'realso factoring in the smell, the
(31:15):
smell of the place. So that'sthe other thing about you know,
when you're in a controlledsetting and you're just
presenting the target in kind ofa vacuum, and then as you're
moving towards how it presentsin the real world, you know, the
dog is also building in the restof the scent picture. So I'm not
(31:37):
sure if that answers your your question,
Joe Ikley (31:41):
yes. Makes perfect sense to me.
Amber Burch (31:44):
Explain your example of the stamp in football
field.
Ngaio Richards (31:50):
oh yeah, that's yes.
Amber Burch (31:52):
yes, good. It's a good like visual of of what the
dogs can do.
Ngaio Richards (31:58):
Yeah? So if you exam right, if you think about
how many olfactory receptors wehave in our own noses, and you
compare that to the olfactoryreceptors that the dog nose has,
so for us, it would fit onto apostage stamp, and for the dog,
(32:19):
It would fit onto a footballfield, they are much better
sniffers, and we are Amber'squestion actually did just
remind me, like, in terms of thenumber of, you know, plant
targets, for example, we havedogs who are on multiple plants.
And you know, some of that is todo with, like, are they
(32:41):
persnickety detail searchers, ordo they, you know, prefer? Are
they more ranging kinds of dogs?So, you know, in theoretically,
dogs are able to just learn andrecognize a tremendous number of
scents. But in, in practice, youknow, it's a bit of a
chessboard, like, what's what'sgoing to work best, and and what
(33:04):
might you encounter, you know,because if you're working a
river bank for a plant, and thenit turns out there's also moose
and otter, you know, scat, tofind that that need not be a
problem, but it's just, just tomanage it The most efficiently
for the dog and the handler.
Joe Ikley (33:23):
So, speaking of the different plant species, and we
kind of have been focused on, onthe Dyer's Woad project, but any
other noxious weeds that they'rethey're being deployed for, or
have you've thought about, youknow, possibilities.
Ngaio Richards (33:38):
Salt cedar, pepperweed, um, trying to think,
there's been some preliminarywork on wild sugar cane. We did
some preliminary work on Rushskeleton weed. There was some
early work on what is it called?It's, it's yellow star thistle,
which was an interesting one.So, yes, lots lots of plant
(34:01):
work. And there was a reallyneat bit of work in a wildlife
preserve that was looking atChinese bush clover lespedeza.
And over time, the bush cloverwas decreasing after the dog
surveys. But there was a yearwhere they were the teams were
also looking for milkweed.Whorled milkweed I think it was
(34:25):
so that's an example of lookingfor both, you know, a non native
and a native species. And thatwas really illuminating, because
what they found was that therewas a lot more milkweed than
they thought, which was greatnews for habitat, and there was
(34:46):
a lot less Bush Clover than theythought.
Josh Wagner (34:49):
At the same time, I think whorled milkweed was one.
Joshua shared a video with me ofon these dogs at work, and it
was basically a whorledmilkweed. Of course, it. The
audio mechanism. But you knowabout a about one inch in
height. Maybe you're smallerthan that to monks, maybe waist
high to chest high vegetation.That was the impressive level of
(35:10):
detail that dog was findingthem. WeaWe have a lot of Rush
skeleton weed partners that aredying to get rush skeleton weed
dogs on it, because as arosette, it looks exactly like
dandelion. There's no way youcan tell until it bolts, and
then it has stiff hairs on thestem, and it's got just very
little leaf material as it getsolder. So it's really hard to
(35:31):
get herbicide into it, and ithas an extensive root system. So
if we can get dogs catching itin the rosette stage in May,
that's what everybody wants. Soactually, right now, it's in the
works. So we're excited aboutthat. A lot of people are
excited about that.
Alyssa Essman (35:49):
How much area can maybe a handler and a dog cover
in a day or in a week, or kindof, what's the what's the range
in area?
Ngaio Richards (36:00):
That is an excellent question, and it
really depends on the target andalso on the density in in the
area. So some I know we want tofocus on plants, but like, if
you're looking for somethinglike Bear scat, for example, you
can cover like 15 kilometers aday, and that's partly because
(36:23):
of, you know, the density thatyou tend to find bear scat in,
in the way that the dog can becasting a little more broadly.
But for plant like dyers woad,where you want to make sure that
you are finding every single,little, tiny bit of it, then you
(36:43):
know you might be able to coveron, trying to think it would be,
I would say it would be a much,much smaller area, so like on
the order of five or 10kilometers over a week and maybe
potentially three hours ofsurveys every day. You know if
it's in, if it's in the earlystages of if it's moderately
(37:07):
dense, and you're just trying toto make sure you're getting that
coverage. So that's the balance,I guess I would say to answer
your question, is it's a balancebetween feeling like you've
gotten good coverage and justthis how much scent that target
(37:27):
is putting out.
Joe Ikley (37:28):
And as we're on the topic or subject of scale, I
know we, we had discussedearlier some of the individual
success sites, but Amber, Idon't think we hit on if you
have kind of some full metricsfor this dyers woad program of
how you know how successful ithas been over the years.
Amber Burch (37:44):
Yeah, I actually do so when we look at 2018 because
we have that data back. Let meback up. So back in the early
80s, when the project firststarted, the snow line site in
particular, they estimated at atleast 100,000 plants. I have
(38:05):
pictures of it was solid yellowin some areas at that snow allow
snow line site in 2024, we had78 plants that spread across
about a 15 mile stretch, andprobably half a mile wide,
maybe, if you were to encompasskind of the whole whole area. So
(38:27):
it's a it's a pretty large area.There's definitely those hot
pockets that Ngaio was wastalking about, that we really
target. But that's a significantdecrease statewide, when we look
at the actual the the number ofplants that we've counted over
(38:49):
the years, we consider 2019 tobe our highest population. We
had a new site that was addedthat year, we had a little over
8700 plants found statewide. Andlast year. So '24 there were 140
plants statewide, half of thosebeing at at snow line. So that's
(39:12):
like a 98% 98 and a half percentdecrease in numbers statewide.
We've gone from, I think 21counties that have had
infestations down to 11 countiesthat we actively look at, but
only five that have had plantsin the last several years. So
(39:33):
it's, it's pretty cool,
Joe Ikley (39:36):
yeah, 100,000 in the 80s of one site. So I know the
78 Yeah, the 78 Yeah, yeah, forsure. I wish I could have the
audible of success in row crops.
Josh Wagner (39:49):
That's what I figured. Joe's his mind's
working right now about thesedogs running up and down the
through the sugar beets and,
Joe Ikley (39:57):
oh, I imagine a water hemp site. Um, the dog would
just lay down and give up.
Josh Wagner (40:06):
So how many flowering amber in 2024
Amber Burch (40:09):
Um, oh, shoot, I would have to, like,
Josh Wagner (40:13):
two, right?
Amber Burch (40:15):
No, there was a little bit more, because we had
Warren Bieber head, so we had 26um, at the snow line. There were
no flowering in Missoula, nonein park. Six in sweet grass.
Somebody can do the math. Andthen one in silver bow. So 26,
(40:39):
and seven, whatever that is. So3030, right? 33 flowering
plants. We did have a couple,unfortunately, that did go to
seed, which is that's like worstcase scenario. Thankfully, a lot
of the seeds were still on theplant. And so actually, in the
(41:04):
the Flathead site years ago,when it was a new area, I've
even done like the whole likesneak up on them, tactic where
you've got a trash bag andyou're sneaking up, and you
throw the trash bag over andloop it around, and then you
scoop up some of the soil thatyou can see the seeds laying on?
Yes, we take it pretty serious.
Josh Wagner (41:25):
I meant to ask seeding. There's two seeding
last year, right?
Amber Burch (41:29):
Two seeding? Yeah, yeah,
Ngaio Richards (41:30):
so, and that is one thing, you know, it's not
entirely linear. Like we'reseeing more protracted growing
seasons were also, you know,like I remember from, you know,
it's been, at least, it's beenmore than 10 years on this
project. And I remember startingmore in June, and now we start
(41:53):
in, we start looking in Aprilsometimes. And initially we were
stopping in in early autumn. Andnow, actually, thanks to a snowy
find by one of the dogs, try toextend a little bit further into
this season. But you know, likelast year, the weather was just
(42:13):
wonky. Is that's a technicalterm, I guess, for it, like we
we went in and then we cameback, and there were these
little plants that appeared to,like, bolted and just seeded,
like they were, you know, semiflowering, semi seeding. And it
was, it was horrifying,
Amber Burch (42:35):
very upset, accelerated growth rate like it.
It has a mind of its own, yeah,
Ngaio Richards (42:40):
you know, so that it would be lovely to be
able to say, like, all right,when we I mean, they're there,
the big picture is, like, yes,the amidst this incredible
collaboration, the dogsdefinitely help significantly.
That's the That's the bottomline. But then there's factors
(43:03):
beyond our control, like whenthe weather does this stuff that
is just so conducive to rapidflowering and seating, and then,
you know, like, if we can't getinto a site, for example,
sometimes there's a concernabout just wildfires. And then
you know that we feel that'sanother thing to keep you up at
night, is like, what are theydoing up there? Because we, we
(43:27):
were supposed to go in two weeksago, and we, we just can't, um,
and then the last thing I wouldsay, like, for Mount Sentinel,
it's been really interesting. Ifyou just look at the numbers
year by year. You know, someyears you might get four, and
then one year you might get 28but contextually, we've also
Amber, and I've talked a lotabout, okay, so those four were
(43:50):
at four different sites,different spots within the hot
spot on Mount Sentinel, that 28find that was all from the same
seed bank, and that was all justthose seedlings coming in. So,
you know, with weeds, well,eradication and those numbers
you're also looking at, okay,but what did those numbers break
(44:10):
down to? Because if you're justlooking at, you know, four
sounds much better than 28 butboth, I would argue both, are
very, very good outcomes, justdifferent in a different way,
good
Amber Burch (44:23):
and good and bad too. Because of our population
size at sites, the dogs actuallyhave to go into Idaho to do some
refresher exposure. I don't knownow if you want to, if you want
to touch on that, you do knowmore on that end,
Ngaio Richards (44:38):
oh yeah. I mean, it's, it's a great problem to
have, but as you're bringing onnew a new generation of
woaddogs, and this is this is anissue for for different targets,
and we say it's a good problemto have, but or if you're giving
refresher training to to theveteran dogs you need when you.
(44:59):
Successful in your own area, ateradication, you need to go
further and further to givethose meaningful training opportunities.
Joe Ikley (45:09):
Well, I knew this would be an exciting one,
because I just looked at theclock. See we should. We should
probably try to wrap this thingup so everyone gets out of here
on time. I do thank all of youcomment. As Josh said at the
beginning, this is and we saythis all the time, row crops.
It's all about partnerships, andthis sounds like a very
successful one. And I know weall have administrators, and
(45:32):
they love metrics and goodmetrics behind it too. And just
just a really neatcollaboration. Did want to make
sure every one of you had achance to any final thoughts on
this topic, whether it's woad orthe relationships or anything,
and then any other resources youwanted folks to find. Maybe
we'll start with Josh on thisone.
Josh Wagner (45:53):
Well, if you just Google or use your favorite
search engine, I pick Google, M,T, E, D, R, R, you could find my
website, and there's all kindsof resources on our high
priority weeds there, includingwebinars, and in about what
five, six weeks, I'm gonna haveJoe on my spring webinar talking
(46:17):
about Palmer Amaranth. So yeah,we have a lot of Montana
resources there, and I lovegetting out working on weed, so
I'm always willing to travel. Iput on 10s of 1000s of miles in
the summer, and I go to Alberta,and I go to North Dakota, and I
go to Idaho, and I go toWyoming. So if anyone has
(46:38):
questions or wants to worktogether, I'm always up for it.
Joe Ikley (46:43):
Perfect. How about you? Amber,
Amber Burch (46:47):
yeah. So again, the partnerships is huge. So
thankful for working dogs, forconservation, all of the members
of the task, for force, wewouldn't be able to accomplish
the goals and have the projectthat we have without each and
every one of them and thesupport from the Montana
Department of Agriculture, we doreceive funding from the noxious
(47:09):
wheat Trust Fund, which is huge.It really allows us the ability
to do what we do. But then theother thing that I would say too
about the dogs is they are anincredible public relations
tool, and starting theconversation with landowners,
agencies and just justeverybody, because who doesn't
(47:29):
love our furry friends?
Joe Ikley (47:31):
And then Ngaio,
Ngaio Richards (47:34):
yes. So if anybody's interested in learning
more about the work the broaderwork card that we also have a
page on the Darius Worldproject. We're at W, D for c.org
and we have a Facebook page andInstagram. And, yeah, I guess I
would just say, I pinch myselfevery every day that I that I
(47:58):
get to work with these dogs.It's, it's, it's hard work. It's
good, hard work. And I agreewith Amber, the dogs are just
phenomenal ambassadors. I'm nota big a big talker, but it's
really lovely to the way thatthe dogs facilitate those
(48:19):
interactions and thatengagement. But I have to also
just say thank you to to thetask force and to Amber and
Josh, and just just for all ourpartners, for the for the work,
because without the work, thereis no there is no working dogs
for conservation and and I don'tjust mean the work itself, but
(48:41):
also just that we get to givethese dogs a purpose that
they're pretty uniquelyqualified for and that they're,
you know, that that it lendsitself well to their nature,
whereas they might otherwise be,you know, languishing in a in a
Shelter. But, yeah, thank youvery much. Just to all our great
(49:03):
partners, because it's it's anamazing network to be part of,
for sure,
Josh Wagner (49:09):
audience participation, just throw in
your slide deck one picture ofworking dogs and people love it.
It'll always start theconversation. And thanks for
having us on, because I lovethis podcast.
Joe Ikley (49:23):
Yeah, again. Thank you all three for coming on.
Definitely hear the passion youall have for this project and
working with the dogs, and it'sprobably the perfect note to end
this season on. So for thelisteners, we will be back in
the fall. This is the lastepisode of this spring season.
So thank you, as always, to thelisteners, and we'll catch you
on the next season of the waragainst weeds.
(49:52):
As always we thank you forlistening to the war against
weeds podcast. Just anotherreminder, you can find our
podcast hosted on the CropProtection Network. Or CPN for
short. So this is another greatresource that's driven by
extension, scientists atdifferent universities for pest
management. And with that, wewill see you next week on the
war against weeds. Podcast Bye.
Welcome back to the war against weeds Podcast. I'm
Joe Ikley, extension WeedScientist at North Dakota State
University. My co-host today isAlyssa Essman. Alyssa, how are
things in Ohio?
Alyssa Essman (00:20):
Things are going well. We just planted our first
soybean trials. We're lookingforward to field season, and
it's really looking forward tothis episode, I have to say it's
one of the more fun andinteresting topics we've had, I
think, on the podcast.
Joe Ikley (00:32):
yeah. So I'm also excited for this one. It's, it's
tax day, and we're recording. Sowe figured we'd have some
government officials on, I guessthings just kind of lined up
that way. But we're going to goaround the horn introduce we
have three guests today forwhat's going to be a very
exciting topic for certainly,anyone who loves dogs, that's
how I'll tease this up. Sofirst, we're going to start with
(00:52):
Josh Wagner. Josh, why don't youtell the people who you are,
what you do, and why we're heretoday?
Josh Wagner (00:59):
I'm Josh Wagner. I'm the Montana Department of
Agriculture's noxious weed earlydetection Rapid Response
Coordinator. I work oncollaborative projects across
the state and surrounding statesand provinces on the highest
priority new invaders. And Iheard your podcast a while back
that mentioned the fantasy ofhaving dogs looking for weeds
(01:22):
and riding in the truck withyou, and I reached out because I
knew you, because I'm a big weednerd, and said, Hey, we do that.
Joe Ikley (01:29):
And that was the witchweed episode from the fall.
So we've been working on pullingguests together for this one for
for a while. Now, with that,we'll go to the next guest,
Amber Burch,
Amber Burch (01:42):
good morning. Amber Burch, I am officially the weed
coordinator for BeaverheadCounty. Beaverhead county is in
the southwest corner of Montana,right along the Montana Idaho
border. We actually have alittle town called monida.
Monida is Montana and Idahocombined. Sorry about that. So
(02:03):
I'm also the Project Coordinatorfor the Montana dyers woad
cooperative project, which wasstarted back in the early 80s.
The cooperative project isfocused on managing dyers woad
in the state of Montana with theintent of hopefully eradicating
or seriously reducing, which wehave definitely accomplished,
(02:25):
the number of plants in thestate keeping it from spreading
dyers woad is a top priorityweed in in the state, and we
have a great team that's that'sworking in managing that
specific plant In the in the state.
Joe Ikley (02:41):
Perfect. And then the last guest Ngaio Richards.
Ngaio Richards (02:44):
hi. I'm a canine handler and field biologist for
working dogs for conservation,which is a Montana based non
profit. And this year marks our25th year anniversary, which is
great. I've been with workingdogs for conservation Since 2011
and I'm the lead on our end ofthe dyers woad work. My current
(03:08):
title is forensics and fieldspecialists, but I was hired on
as the first canine fieldspecialist for the organization,
which was essentially anapprenticeship. And we partner
with dogs to find pressingconservation targets. So that
includes, of course, noxiousweeds like dyers woad. But the
(03:31):
targets we seek with the dogsrange from animal scat or poop
occupied burrows and dens toanimals themselves, just to name
the few. And the targets that wesee can be native, non native,
and sometimes both.
Joe Ikley (03:47):
We'll get into more detail on that later, because Dr
Essman looks like she's readyfor all sorts of dog questions.
But before we get there, sowe've mentioned Dyer's woad,
just wanted to maybe take alittle bit of step back and just
focus on noxious weeds inMontana, and so maybe more
pointed towards Josh and Amberon this one. But which ones you
know? Which are the ones thatkeep you up at night? Big State,
(04:09):
lot of weeds, I'm sure. So whatare your most problematic ones?
Josh Wagner (04:13):
You say, keep you up at night? That's exactly how
I feel about it. I really am abig weed nerd. I think about it
at work, and I think about it athome, and I think the one that
concerns me most in Montana isrush skeleton weed. There's 4
million acres of it in Idaho.There's about 4000 acres of it
(04:34):
in Montana, and we work hard tokeep it that way. It's really it
causes about $60 million a yearof direct losses and grain crops
in Washington. So we don't wantto get that into our golden
triangle. Invasive Phragmites isone that looks like it's going
to be big on my radar thiscoming season. We only had a
(04:55):
couple populations of that upuntil 2023. And now we're
starting to see more of that.And we have 36 weeds on our
list, and I focus on about 20 ofthem, not necessarily all of
them are on our list, but not asa invasive annual grass. That's
a big concern. Medusa head,yeah, there's a lot. I could
(05:16):
talk about it for a long time,but let somebody else go.
Joe Ikley (05:21):
Amber, similar picture in your in the southwest
corner,
Amber Burch (05:24):
yeah, I totally agree with Josh, especially on
Rush skeleton weed. Rushskeleton weed, there's a ton of
it in Idaho, being a borderCounty, we only have a couple of
sites in the in our county thatare, you know, four or five
years ago was the last time wefound any plants. And so we see
ourselves as kind of the firstline of defense from from
(05:47):
getting it into Montana, atleast in the southwest corner,
Northwest corners, definitely adifferent story for rush
skeleton weed in the state. Butyeah, we're, trying to be that
first line of defense to keep itfrom spreading further.
Fortunately, we have theContinental Divide, so it's,
it's super, super high,mountainous range that hopefully
(06:11):
it won't come over as fast as itdoes in some other parts of the
state. Also ventenata is huge.So that invasive annual grass,
we think of cheatgrass as beingbad. I call ventenata, the red
headed step sister ofcheatgrass, because it, it's,
yeah, it's bad stuff. Sodefinitely those, those high
(06:31):
priority weeds, are those, andthen the day to day, we have a
lot of hounds, tongue, Canadathistle, obviously, is is
everywhere, especially anywherewet. Spotted Knapweed is pretty
widespread in the state. Andthen leafy spurge, those are
probably the big ones that aremore widespread. So when you
(06:52):
think of early detection, rapidresponse and those high
priorities we're we're lookingat Rush skeleton weed, dyers
woad, blueweed is another onethat is just really important to
keep from spreading.
Josh Wagner (07:05):
The farmers and ranchers here call leafy spurge
that that North Dakota weed.It's one of our most common
ones. And I guess another one wealways thought was going to come
from North Dakota, that we'rekind of the last state standing
in the lower 48 is palmaramaranth or waterhemp. It just
hasn't established here yet, andit's blown up everywhere. And
(07:29):
that's another reason why I'mfamiliar with Joe's work and
admire what he does.
Joe Ikley (07:34):
least tell you where we, uh, you've got us on pins
and needles about Ventennata. Sowe're, we're happy to explore,
not happy to exchange weeds.What we do anyways, I guess. But
both of you had mentioned earlydetection, rapid response. And
so, you know, Montana, justbeing a large state, I wanted to
kind of transition to some ofthe monitoring challenges they
have for these noxious weeds.And maybe we'll kind of stick
(07:57):
with Amber on the the regionallevel before looking at Josh's
view on the state level?
Amber Burch (08:02):
Yeah, well, I have a little bit of the state level,
specifically for the woadproject. That's probably where I
have the most experience. Butbeaverhead county is also the
largest county in the state. Ithink it's like 5700 square
miles. I think that's right,it's huge. And so limited crews,
(08:24):
limited time, are the biggestissues with monitoring and
getting out. We're also, Ithink, 62% public land in
Beaverhead County, so there'sjust, there's a lot of ground to
cover. So that's probably thebiggest challenge with any kind
of monitoring. As far as thedyers woad project, we have an
(08:46):
incredible task force. So it's agroup of people from all of the
counties involved. It is astatewide project, and so all of
the counties are involved. TheAgency, folks that are a part of
the those areas are alsoactively involved. They help by
going out and looking at thoseareas. I go out and look at
(09:09):
areas. Josh goes out, and we alljust work together as a team to
make sure that we're coveringall of that. And then we have
data for the dyers woad projectclear back to 1999 at all those
sites, we actually countindividual plants. We have those
records, and even broke downinto growth stage, rosette,
(09:31):
seeding or flowering. So thatwhen we can also kind of track,
I guess, different stages, we'reseeing better management in
different stages and when totarget. Ngaio has some good
thoughts on that as well.
Josh Wagner (09:48):
I'll just say, with my job, it's all about and I
guess all of our jobsrelationships. I get out and
speak a couple times a monthacross the state. I know people
everywhere. I. Think everyone inMontana knows people everywhere.
You can't get away with anythingin Montana. You can't be a bad
person, because your reputationwould spread. But it's really
(10:10):
just making partnerships andeyes on the ground. And
Joe Ikley (10:16):
that's where I wanted to go to next. So we mentioned
or alluded to the dyers woadproject. And I want to know what
the you know, what point didthis relationship with the
working dogs for conservationbegin? And then we'll kind of
turn over to everything greatthat that organization does.
Amber Burch (10:32):
So to start, the very first time we had dogs on
dyers woad was back in 2007 wasmy first year as the project
lead, and we had, is it? Alicewhite law, which is a co founder
of working dogs forconservation, was working with
Kim Goodwin from MSU. We had himdown in the snow line site,
(10:56):
which is almost on theContinental Divide in Beaverhead
County, found that supereffective tool. Couple years
later, we really startedutilizing the dogs in multiple
sites, and we really can tell apretty cool story of when the
dog started working in areas andhuge reductions in the number of
(11:21):
plants that we find. So it'sbeen, it's been a long time
since, since 2007 I don't knowhow I can't do that math in my
head quite that fast, but yeah,it's, it's been a very cool
partnership that has seenamazing results in our efforts
Joe Ikley (11:40):
maybe be good, just to kind of go through that, and
I'll maybe just Amber, and Ngaiojust have you guys have a
dialog, and Alyssa and I can sitback for a while.
Ngaio Richards (11:50):
This story that we often use, just because it's
so kind of black and white, ison Mount Sentinel, which is one
of our sites. So that's theother thing that's really fun
and challenging. And a good wayabout this work is that we have
sites that are hundreds of milesapart, you know, to the north,
(12:11):
around the Kalispell orwhitefish area, we've got a site
and each site, and then we'vegot the most southerly ones,
just on the pretty much on theborder with Idaho. And in the
middle we have mount Sentinel,which is, you know, beloved
recreational spot in Missoula.It's about 200 acres across the
(12:32):
face, and it's been divided upin different zones over the
years. And initially, you know,we did the pilot. We're
comparing just a human, onlyobserver, and then the dog
teams. And what we found wasthat the dogs, the dogs and the
handlers, you know, supported bythe handlers, were able to find
(12:52):
plants from further away andmore quickly, before they
reached the dreaded reproductivestage, you know, before they
went became went into floweringand seeding, and just in terms
of the numbers in the firstyear, so you know, looking at
about five or 600 plants, a lotof them large leafy rosettes, a
(13:13):
lot of them In that flowering orseeding stage. And over time,
we've, you know, we've reducedthe area to known hotspot zones
where we're finding, sometimesmaybe three or four plants, like
tiny, tiny rosettes. And that'sjust because we are perched at
those seed banks. We've gotthose all mapped out. We're just
(13:35):
waiting for those little shootsto come out, and then we we pull
them. Another thing that wasreally neat that we we talk
about just in terms of the theway that the dogs, the finds we
make with the dogs, can helpweed management efforts, is that
there, there was one particularteam where the dog kept
(13:56):
alerting, and the handler wasn'tseeing anything, but she was,
you know, of course, the dog wasvery insistent, and she she
marked those areas, and thenwhen they returned a few weeks
later, they found these tiny,tiny rosettes. So the dog was
actually alerting to thepresence of the remnant roots.
(14:17):
And as a result of that, thatmeant more targeted herbicide
applications, as opposed to justhand pulling. So there's an
awful lot to be learned from thepartnership with the dogs. But I
just, I just have to say whatAmber and Josh have been saying.
Just reiterate, because I was ata gathering with a dog a few
(14:38):
weeks ago, a gathering for theMontana Conservation Corps crew
to launch the season. And youknow, they're just asking a bit
about the work we do, and theykept touching on love of the
land and sense of community. AndI have to say, you. For me,
personally, what runs through. Imean, of course, the dogs front
(15:00):
and center for us, but also justlove of the land and that sense
of community, because we do alot of international work, but
there is nothing more meaningfulto me than doing the work right
in your own I mean, literallyfor me, it's right in my own
backyard. You know, I can seeMount Sentinel as we're talking.
Amber Burch (15:22):
And when Ngaio is talking small rosettes, we're
talking like pinky finger sizerosettes that we as human with a
visual, we would never see ituntil it's five times bigger.
But these dogs are keying in andtelling us when they're they're
(15:42):
teeny tiny. So when you'retalking eradication and trying
to relative eradication withinthat site, you have to get every
single plant and the dogs allowus to be able to to do that really.
Alyssa Essman (16:00):
So in terms of detection, is it primarily site,
or is it scent, or is it all ofthe above that the dogs use to
detect these weeds?
Ngaio Richards (16:10):
It's primarily scent, but there can be a bit of
a there can be a bit of a visualfor the dogs, but I'm glad
Amber, you mentioned that pointabout the tiny, Pinky sized
rosettes and and also thequestion in terms of the visual,
because Amber and I were walkingalong on survey with this very
fastidious Border Collie namedSeamus, and noticed he wasn't
(16:33):
with us, and turned around andhe was sitting very intently at
this funky looking plant. Andyou know, we were both like,
what, what? And he just wasadamant, why are you doing good
people? And so we, you know, wepulled it and sent it off Amber
sent it off for DNAconfirmation. And sure enough,
it was woad. But again, just interms of we are such visual
(16:57):
creatures. And, of course, weare supporting the dog in their
scent detection. But we also,you know, we have eyes and and
we know what these plants looklike, but that's been a really
that was an unexpected benefitof working with the dogs, is
that all of a sudden we startedto build in. We realized that,
(17:18):
like, you know, based on, like Isaid before, the each different
site has its own kind of microclimate. Each each site where we
work is very different, whichcan, you know, require different
dogs, sometimes different sizedogs. And along with those
differences, come differences inwhat the plant looks like. And I
(17:39):
mean, these, these, we we have,you know, because we're nerdy
about these things, we have puttogether sort of indices that
show, like, here's what Dyer'swoad looks like up Mount
Sentinel. This is textbookdyer's woad, but only at Mount
Sentinel, because over here,because there's, you know,
different drainage, whatever youcan get these crinkly, waxy
(18:03):
looking leaves. So evensometimes, when the plants are
large, you know, not Pinky size,you wouldn't even know that
that's what you were looking at.But thanks to the dogs. Now, now
we do now I look for those typesof things as well.
Amber Burch (18:20):
We kind of do the same thing at in at the
sweetgrass county site, becauseit's so, so different. We'll get
into an area and it's like, youknow, we're not 100% sure
visually, is that? Is that woad?And so we'll actually, we'll
bring the dog over into thatarea and have him just check and
(18:40):
make sure that yes or no, kindof give us that confirmation.
Joe Ikley (18:45):
Now I do have to hear the description of what a day
working with these dogs in thefield look like. Just pull up on
a on a four by four and just goto town, just walk through, walk
us through a day of a field.Visit.
Ngaio Richards (18:59):
I have some Well, first of all, I have to
say it's it. I think it's thebest job in the world, but it's
also nowhere near as glamorousas as a lot of people think it
is. I mean, I just I think Amberhas probably seen me wearing the
exact same pants and jacketevery autumn that at that sweet
grass site. But I have aparticularly fun memory of going
(19:21):
in with the yellow lab, theclassic yellow lab in this
wishful story you guys weretalking about before, named
Tobias, and it was muddy, and wehad just a great time. Three
hours in the field. You know, wewere coming back, and we looked
over, and he had his head overthis side, and when he turned
back to us, half of his face wasjust complete mud, and he was
(19:45):
his tongue was loaded out. Hewas just so happy. He was having
a good time. It was like thebest reward for all his hard
work. You know, in terms of atypical day, it's a. But in the
summer months, when it's hot, sothere's, there's managing
temperature for the dogs,welfare and comfort and but
there's also managing for thebest olfactory conditions, like,
(20:08):
when is the scenting going to bethe best for the for the dogs?
And so in the in the summermonths, we can be up at between
four and five. And then,depending on where we're going,
like on Mount Sentinel, it cantake us about 45 minutes to an
hour just at some of those moreelevated start points, just to
get to that start surveylocation. Then we'll be out
(20:31):
there for a few hours. And thething about working with the
dogs is you have to be reallypresent. It's like time kind of
stands still. You get them intotheir work vest. You know, you
may fiddle with all your packand everything, and then when
you say, Okay, let's find it,it's like it switches on
something in your own brain. Soyou know, you're out there, and
(20:55):
either you're feeling likeyou're getting very good
coverage, even if you're notmaking lots of finds or any
finds. And that's the same thescenario increasingly on Mount
Sentinel and in some otherplaces, is we're finding less so
then you want to make sureyou're getting good coverage,
and then by the end of it, youknow, you we get back down to
(21:18):
our start point, and we're justmaking sure we're doing body
checks or making sure that forthe safety of the dog, you know,
they don't some of thosecheatgrass and others, you know,
they're designed to embed intothe fur of whatever creature, so
we don't that can be reallyhazardous for the dogs. So, you
know, we're checking paws, we'rechecking the coat. But we also
(21:42):
don't want to be vectors. Solike, you know, I'm looking at
my boots and all that kind ofthing. And then it's a matter of
getting back and, you know,crunching numbers on a
spreadsheet and getting the dogsettled in, making sure the dogs
resting and hydrated and allthat. So some, some days can be
pretty, pretty short, like,really, really start maybe five
(22:05):
hours, and other days can be 12hours of just going, but it's
all around making sure that thesurvey was well executed, like
you felt like, we went into thisarea and we really, we really
covered it, well, cleared it,and also just making sure that
the dog is in a great state ofmind from start to finish.
Alyssa Essman (22:25):
In terms of management, you've mentioned a
couple things. You've mentionedpulling and herbicide
applications, and I just, I'mcurious, kind of what, what is
your management strategy? Isthat something the handlers are
responsible for, or does someonecome back later? Or what's that
look like?
Amber Burch (22:40):
So as a project, Dyer's woad has an accelerated
growth rate, so it can grow upto four inches in a week. So we
try to get to sites as often aswe can through the growing
season. Anything that is beyonda rosette stage, we pull if it's
in a rosette a lot of times,we'll leave it, and then we'll
(23:01):
treat with herbicide. If we havethe dogs in the area, obviously
we don't treat we don't want totreat where the dogs are going
to be, and so we'll let themclear an area. And then if we
need to do a herbicideapplication, we do it once
they've exited the site, buttypically a combination of hand
(23:21):
pulling and then follow upherbicide treatments. And we do
anything that we pull, we removefrom the site as well, because
the plant could have enoughenergy to go ahead finish out
set seed, and we just don't.This is eradication project, and
so we're really wanting to notleave any chance of plants going
(23:43):
and finishing out.
Ngaio Richards (23:45):
I would add, sometimes we talk about what's
optimal use of detection dogsfor different applications, and
in an ideal world, an optimalapplication might be diminishing
density, you know, because it itcan be overwhelming for a dog in
an area where there's just ahuge amount of growth, you know,
(24:06):
because you can see them likeit's everywhere. But the thing
that's really great about beingpart of this project is that
this is also an all hands ondeck situation, you know. So if
I'm in the Lima snow line area,I try to settle in there for a
week with the dog, you know, andlet Amber know where we're
(24:29):
going. And in case, you know,somebody catches wind, maybe an
infestation, or something, youknow, to be able to just go
there and look. And thensometimes also, I'll do some
pulling, and then we might wantto go back again in a few days
and just see what else might bethere. Just to be as thorough as
(24:50):
possible,
Joe Ikley (24:52):
focus, I guess maybe a little bit more on on the dogs
themselves. Now, because I heardyou mention a Border Collie, and
now you the lab, so I. And alsomentioned some sites require
dogs of different sizes. So I'mjust, you know, is it basically
any dog that that you can train,or there's certain breeds that
are better suited for this typeof work?
Ngaio Richards (25:14):
Well, I'm happy to tell you, I mean, so on this
project, we have had, you know,German Shepherds, yes, Border
Collies labs. At the moment, wehave, if you want to run the
gamut, we have a pit bull and aGolden Retriever, among among
others. It's not, it's not anydog. These are, these are dogs
(25:34):
that show certaincharacteristics, for certain
willingness, for detection,work, drive, associated with
searching, finding, identifyingtargets, and they so there are
some characteristics that welook for, but it's not really
breed specific, it's really,does this individual dog show
(25:56):
these traits? And then we'll wedo some vetting. A lot of our
dogs come from shelters, whichis really important, because a
lot of times these dogs are, Imean, they're not, they're they
are wonderful, but they are notgreat pets. You know, they're
(26:16):
bossy, they're in your face.And, I mean, not just boss seen
in your face. I mean, it's hard.You just would have to
experience how obnoxious it canbe. Just, well, let up. And so,
I mean, I think that'smarvelous. But you know, if ever
I have friends over, who, myGod, this dog is alive, and
realize, oh, it's not. It'sreally not that these kinds of
dogs are not for everybody. So,yes, we we select them very
(26:42):
carefully, and then there's awhole screening preliminary
stage. And if they, you know,and they progress further and
further, and sometimes theydon't want the job, or they
don't have as much drive, ordifferent things, at which point
we will make sure to re homethem, find them the best, most
(27:05):
appreciative home. Otherwise,yes, it's a lot of a lot of
different breeds, a lot of mixedbreeds. It's really the
characteristics, and then alsothat comes into play, like, what
kind of target would this dog bewell suited to find. And so for
some of the sites, like our siteup by whitefish, there's a
(27:28):
really slender strip right by aguardrail where our partner up
there calls it ground zero. It'swhere there's just there has
been a lot of growth in thepast. And so for that, you know,
a lot of these dogs are veryboisterous, and so the last
thing you want is, like a, youknow, a large body, wiggly dog.
(27:50):
And so the pit bull, she's gotdwarfism, so she's especially
petite, and she's a reallyfantastic candidate for that
site. And we have, we haveanother, I think he's got some
Border Collie in him, and healso is very, very good at that
site.
Joe Ikley (28:08):
So I am curious about the training, how, what, what
does the training? TrainingProgram is, what I would call
it, I guess, for for these dogslook like as they become
specialized in detecting. Inthis case, we can start with
wood, but I do want to go intoall the other things that that
they are utilized for.
Ngaio Richards (28:25):
When they're introduced to a target, it's in
a controlled setting, just toremove, you know, make it
simple, straightforward, andit's just associating the scent
and the recognition of thatscent with getting a reward. And
so just to go back a bit tocharacteristics, you know there
are, there are some dogs who,you know, love to find things
(28:50):
and love to search, but aren'tnecessarily very inclined to
tell you about that or tointeract with someone. And so as
you progress from the trainingstage, where the dog is like,
Oh, yes, okay, if I this scent,gets me a toy or gets me treats.
And then moving into a realworld scenario, as we often call
(29:10):
it, then you also want a dog asyou're you know, you go into a
field, and the dog not only isgoing to find it, but is also
going to sit or tell you in someother way. Here it is, and want
to interact with the handler forthat reward. So, so in the
simplest possible terms, it'sjust here is the scent that we
are concerned about when yourecognize it that is associated
(29:36):
with a reward. And that is thething too about these dogs and
maybe makes them, you know, lessgray pets, is that they are
really that's what they want allthe time, is just give me that
reward, reward, reward, reward.
Joe Ikley (29:52):
And so how many would say an individual dog that that
gets utilized, and how manydifferent weed species? Or other
things, will that one dog beable to focus in on? Is it like
a a daily thing you here's,here's the scent we're looking
for today, and we can go thatway? Or is it just, is it more
limited than that?
Ngaio Richards (30:11):
Well, um, the first, I guess part of the
answer to that question is thatthese dogs have the capacity to
acquire huge number of scents intheir portfolio, if you want to
call it that, we have had dogson 10,20, 30 different scents.
But there's a bit of a strategyto it, in that we want the
(30:31):
targets to be complimentary ornot interfere with some work,
you know. So if you have a dogwho's who is assigned or starts
to be doing a certain kind ofwork, you want to make sure that
any subsequent targets are notgoing to interfere in some, in
some way, there's, there's waysof working around that, but
(30:53):
ideally, and it's not they don'tneed, you know, like a daily
reminder necessarily there theycan be very contextual. And so,
for example, a lot of after atime of returning to different
places, you can see that the dogis like, oh, yeah, this is, you
know, because, because they'realso factoring in the smell, the
(31:15):
smell of the place. So that'sthe other thing about you know,
when you're in a controlledsetting and you're just
presenting the target in kind ofa vacuum, and then as you're
moving towards how it presentsin the real world, you know, the
dog is also building in the restof the scent picture. So I'm not
(31:37):
sure if that answers your your question,
Joe Ikley (31:41):
yes. Makes perfect sense to me.
Amber Burch (31:44):
Explain your example of the stamp in football
field.
Ngaio Richards (31:50):
oh yeah, that's yes.
Amber Burch (31:52):
yes, good. It's a good like visual of of what the
dogs can do.
Ngaio Richards (31:58):
Yeah? So if you exam right, if you think about
how many olfactory receptors wehave in our own noses, and you
compare that to the olfactoryreceptors that the dog nose has,
so for us, it would fit onto apostage stamp, and for the dog,
(32:19):
It would fit onto a footballfield, they are much better
sniffers, and we are Amber'squestion actually did just
remind me, like, in terms of thenumber of, you know, plant
targets, for example, we havedogs who are on multiple plants.
And you know, some of that is todo with, like, are they
(32:41):
persnickety detail searchers, ordo they, you know, prefer? Are
they more ranging kinds of dogs?So, you know, in theoretically,
dogs are able to just learn andrecognize a tremendous number of
scents. But in, in practice, youknow, it's a bit of a
chessboard, like, what's what'sgoing to work best, and and what
(33:04):
might you encounter, you know,because if you're working a
river bank for a plant, and thenit turns out there's also moose
and otter, you know, scat, tofind that that need not be a
problem, but it's just, just tomanage it The most efficiently
for the dog and the handler.
Joe Ikley (33:23):
So, speaking of the different plant species, and we
kind of have been focused on, onthe Dyer's Woad project, but any
other noxious weeds that they'rethey're being deployed for, or
have you've thought about, youknow, possibilities.
Ngaio Richards (33:38):
Salt cedar, pepperweed, um, trying to think,
there's been some preliminarywork on wild sugar cane. We did
some preliminary work on Rushskeleton weed. There was some
early work on what is it called?It's, it's yellow star thistle,
which was an interesting one.So, yes, lots lots of plant
(34:01):
work. And there was a reallyneat bit of work in a wildlife
preserve that was looking atChinese bush clover lespedeza.
And over time, the bush cloverwas decreasing after the dog
surveys. But there was a yearwhere they were the teams were
also looking for milkweed.Whorled milkweed I think it was
(34:25):
so that's an example of lookingfor both, you know, a non native
and a native species. And thatwas really illuminating, because
what they found was that therewas a lot more milkweed than
they thought, which was greatnews for habitat, and there was
(34:46):
a lot less Bush Clover than theythought.
Josh Wagner (34:49):
At the same time, I think whorled milkweed was one.
Joshua shared a video with me ofon these dogs at work, and it
was basically a whorledmilkweed. Of course, it. The
audio mechanism. But you knowabout a about one inch in
height. Maybe you're smallerthan that to monks, maybe waist
high to chest high vegetation.That was the impressive level of
(35:10):
detail that dog was findingthem. WeaWe have a lot of Rush
skeleton weed partners that aredying to get rush skeleton weed
dogs on it, because as arosette, it looks exactly like
dandelion. There's no way youcan tell until it bolts, and
then it has stiff hairs on thestem, and it's got just very
little leaf material as it getsolder. So it's really hard to
(35:31):
get herbicide into it, and ithas an extensive root system. So
if we can get dogs catching itin the rosette stage in May,
that's what everybody wants. Soactually, right now, it's in the
works. So we're excited aboutthat. A lot of people are
excited about that.
Alyssa Essman (35:49):
How much area can maybe a handler and a dog cover
in a day or in a week, or kindof, what's the what's the range
in area?
Ngaio Richards (36:00):
That is an excellent question, and it
really depends on the target andalso on the density in in the
area. So some I know we want tofocus on plants, but like, if
you're looking for somethinglike Bear scat, for example, you
can cover like 15 kilometers aday, and that's partly because
(36:23):
of, you know, the density thatyou tend to find bear scat in,
in the way that the dog can becasting a little more broadly.
But for plant like dyers woad,where you want to make sure that
you are finding every single,little, tiny bit of it, then you
(36:43):
know you might be able to coveron, trying to think it would be,
I would say it would be a much,much smaller area, so like on
the order of five or 10kilometers over a week and maybe
potentially three hours ofsurveys every day. You know if
it's in, if it's in the earlystages of if it's moderately
(37:07):
dense, and you're just trying toto make sure you're getting that
coverage. So that's the balance,I guess I would say to answer
your question, is it's a balancebetween feeling like you've
gotten good coverage and justthis how much scent that target
(37:27):
is putting out.
Joe Ikley (37:28):
And as we're on the topic or subject of scale, I
know we, we had discussedearlier some of the individual
success sites, but Amber, Idon't think we hit on if you
have kind of some full metricsfor this dyers woad program of
how you know how successful ithas been over the years.
Amber Burch (37:44):
Yeah, I actually do so when we look at 2018 because
we have that data back. Let meback up. So back in the early
80s, when the project firststarted, the snow line site in
particular, they estimated at atleast 100,000 plants. I have
(38:05):
pictures of it was solid yellowin some areas at that snow allow
snow line site in 2024, we had78 plants that spread across
about a 15 mile stretch, andprobably half a mile wide,
maybe, if you were to encompasskind of the whole whole area. So
(38:27):
it's a it's a pretty large area.There's definitely those hot
pockets that Ngaio was wastalking about, that we really
target. But that's a significantdecrease statewide, when we look
at the actual the the number ofplants that we've counted over
(38:49):
the years, we consider 2019 tobe our highest population. We
had a new site that was addedthat year, we had a little over
8700 plants found statewide. Andlast year. So '24 there were 140
plants statewide, half of thosebeing at at snow line. So that's
(39:12):
like a 98% 98 and a half percentdecrease in numbers statewide.
We've gone from, I think 21counties that have had
infestations down to 11 countiesthat we actively look at, but
only five that have had plantsin the last several years. So
(39:33):
it's, it's pretty cool,
Joe Ikley (39:36):
yeah, 100,000 in the 80s of one site. So I know the
78 Yeah, the 78 Yeah, yeah, forsure. I wish I could have the
audible of success in row crops.
Josh Wagner (39:49):
That's what I figured. Joe's his mind's
working right now about thesedogs running up and down the
through the sugar beets and,
Joe Ikley (39:57):
oh, I imagine a water hemp site. Um, the dog would
just lay down and give up.
Josh Wagner (40:06):
So how many flowering amber in 2024
Amber Burch (40:09):
Um, oh, shoot, I would have to, like,
Josh Wagner (40:13):
two, right?
Amber Burch (40:15):
No, there was a little bit more, because we had
Warren Bieber head, so we had 26um, at the snow line. There were
no flowering in Missoula, nonein park. Six in sweet grass.
Somebody can do the math. Andthen one in silver bow. So 26,
(40:39):
and seven, whatever that is. So3030, right? 33 flowering
plants. We did have a couple,unfortunately, that did go to
seed, which is that's like worstcase scenario. Thankfully, a lot
of the seeds were still on theplant. And so actually, in the
(41:04):
the Flathead site years ago,when it was a new area, I've
even done like the whole likesneak up on them, tactic where
you've got a trash bag andyou're sneaking up, and you
throw the trash bag over andloop it around, and then you
scoop up some of the soil thatyou can see the seeds laying on?
Yes, we take it pretty serious.
Josh Wagner (41:25):
I meant to ask seeding. There's two seeding
last year, right?
Amber Burch (41:29):
Two seeding? Yeah, yeah,
Ngaio Richards (41:30):
so, and that is one thing, you know, it's not
entirely linear. Like we'reseeing more protracted growing
seasons were also, you know,like I remember from, you know,
it's been, at least, it's beenmore than 10 years on this
project. And I remember startingmore in June, and now we start
(41:53):
in, we start looking in Aprilsometimes. And initially we were
stopping in in early autumn. Andnow, actually, thanks to a snowy
find by one of the dogs, try toextend a little bit further into
this season. But you know, likelast year, the weather was just
(42:13):
wonky. Is that's a technicalterm, I guess, for it, like we
we went in and then we cameback, and there were these
little plants that appeared to,like, bolted and just seeded,
like they were, you know, semiflowering, semi seeding. And it
was, it was horrifying,
Amber Burch (42:35):
very upset, accelerated growth rate like it.
It has a mind of its own, yeah,
Ngaio Richards (42:40):
you know, so that it would be lovely to be
able to say, like, all right,when we I mean, they're there,
the big picture is, like, yes,the amidst this incredible
collaboration, the dogsdefinitely help significantly.
That's the That's the bottomline. But then there's factors
(43:03):
beyond our control, like whenthe weather does this stuff that
is just so conducive to rapidflowering and seating, and then,
you know, like, if we can't getinto a site, for example,
sometimes there's a concernabout just wildfires. And then
you know that we feel that'sanother thing to keep you up at
night, is like, what are theydoing up there? Because we, we
(43:27):
were supposed to go in two weeksago, and we, we just can't, um,
and then the last thing I wouldsay, like, for Mount Sentinel,
it's been really interesting. Ifyou just look at the numbers
year by year. You know, someyears you might get four, and
then one year you might get 28but contextually, we've also
Amber, and I've talked a lotabout, okay, so those four were
(43:50):
at four different sites,different spots within the hot
spot on Mount Sentinel, that 28find that was all from the same
seed bank, and that was all justthose seedlings coming in. So,
you know, with weeds, well,eradication and those numbers
you're also looking at, okay,but what did those numbers break
(44:10):
down to? Because if you're justlooking at, you know, four
sounds much better than 28 butboth, I would argue both, are
very, very good outcomes, justdifferent in a different way,
good
Amber Burch (44:23):
and good and bad too. Because of our population
size at sites, the dogs actuallyhave to go into Idaho to do some
refresher exposure. I don't knownow if you want to, if you want
to touch on that, you do knowmore on that end,
Ngaio Richards (44:38):
oh yeah. I mean, it's, it's a great problem to
have, but as you're bringing onnew a new generation of
woaddogs, and this is this is anissue for for different targets,
and we say it's a good problemto have, but or if you're giving
refresher training to to theveteran dogs you need when you.
(44:59):
Successful in your own area, ateradication, you need to go
further and further to givethose meaningful training opportunities.
Joe Ikley (45:09):
Well, I knew this would be an exciting one,
because I just looked at theclock. See we should. We should
probably try to wrap this thingup so everyone gets out of here
on time. I do thank all of youcomment. As Josh said at the
beginning, this is and we saythis all the time, row crops.
It's all about partnerships, andthis sounds like a very
successful one. And I know weall have administrators, and
(45:32):
they love metrics and goodmetrics behind it too. And just
just a really neatcollaboration. Did want to make
sure every one of you had achance to any final thoughts on
this topic, whether it's woad orthe relationships or anything,
and then any other resources youwanted folks to find. Maybe
we'll start with Josh on thisone.
Josh Wagner (45:53):
Well, if you just Google or use your favorite
search engine, I pick Google, M,T, E, D, R, R, you could find my
website, and there's all kindsof resources on our high
priority weeds there, includingwebinars, and in about what
five, six weeks, I'm gonna haveJoe on my spring webinar talking
(46:17):
about Palmer Amaranth. So yeah,we have a lot of Montana
resources there, and I lovegetting out working on weed, so
I'm always willing to travel. Iput on 10s of 1000s of miles in
the summer, and I go to Alberta,and I go to North Dakota, and I
go to Idaho, and I go toWyoming. So if anyone has
(46:38):
questions or wants to worktogether, I'm always up for it.
Joe Ikley (46:43):
Perfect. How about you? Amber,
Amber Burch (46:47):
yeah. So again, the partnerships is huge. So
thankful for working dogs, forconservation, all of the members
of the task, for force, wewouldn't be able to accomplish
the goals and have the projectthat we have without each and
every one of them and thesupport from the Montana
Department of Agriculture, we doreceive funding from the noxious
(47:09):
wheat Trust Fund, which is huge.It really allows us the ability
to do what we do. But then theother thing that I would say too
about the dogs is they are anincredible public relations
tool, and starting theconversation with landowners,
agencies and just justeverybody, because who doesn't
(47:29):
love our furry friends?
Joe Ikley (47:31):
And then Ngaio,
Ngaio Richards (47:34):
yes. So if anybody's interested in learning
more about the work the broaderwork card that we also have a
page on the Darius Worldproject. We're at W, D for c.org
and we have a Facebook page andInstagram. And, yeah, I guess I
would just say, I pinch myselfevery every day that I that I
(47:58):
get to work with these dogs.It's, it's, it's hard work. It's
good, hard work. And I agreewith Amber, the dogs are just
phenomenal ambassadors. I'm nota big a big talker, but it's
really lovely to the way thatthe dogs facilitate those
(48:19):
interactions and thatengagement. But I have to also
just say thank you to to thetask force and to Amber and
Josh, and just just for all ourpartners, for the for the work,
because without the work, thereis no there is no working dogs
for conservation and and I don'tjust mean the work itself, but
(48:41):
also just that we get to givethese dogs a purpose that
they're pretty uniquelyqualified for and that they're,
you know, that that it lendsitself well to their nature,
whereas they might otherwise be,you know, languishing in a in a
Shelter. But, yeah, thank youvery much. Just to all our great
(49:03):
partners, because it's it's anamazing network to be part of,
for sure,
Josh Wagner (49:09):
audience participation, just throw in
your slide deck one picture ofworking dogs and people love it.
It'll always start theconversation. And thanks for
having us on, because I lovethis podcast.
Joe Ikley (49:23):
Yeah, again. Thank you all three for coming on.
Definitely hear the passion youall have for this project and
working with the dogs, and it'sprobably the perfect note to end
this season on. So for thelisteners, we will be back in
the fall. This is the lastepisode of this spring season.
So thank you, as always, to thelisteners, and we'll catch you
on the next season of the waragainst weeds.
(49:52):
As always we thank you forlistening to the war against
weeds podcast. Just anotherreminder, you can find our
podcast hosted on the CropProtection Network. Or CPN for
short. So this is another greatresource that's driven by
extension, scientists atdifferent universities for pest
management. And with that, wewill see you next week on the
war against weeds. Podcast Bye.
Popular Podcasts
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!