January 27, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode of the We Are Power Podcast, we delve into the world of entrepreneurship with Ruth Hartnoll, co-founder of Matchstick. Join us as we explore personal stories of growth, overcoming challenges, and the significance of community. Ruth discusses the origins of her business, the valuable lessons learned, and the importance of fostering a strong company culture. We also touch on balancing personal and professional life, as well as the impact of side projects and board roles.
Chapters:
00:00 Welcome to the We Are Power Podcast
01:33 The Journey of Matchstick
02:36 Challenges and Lessons Learned
06:31 The Importance of Culture
12:41 Side Hustles and Board Roles
16:50 Balancing Personal and Professional Life
19:12 The Power of Community
25:20 Reflections and Advice for Entrepreneurs
28:14 Conclusion
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast.
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the podcast for you, your careerand your life.
We release an episode everysingle Monday with listeners in
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insight from amazing role models.
(00:21):
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Awards, which celebrateshundreds of female role models
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This is where you can hearstories from all of our awards
alumni and stay up to date witheverything MPW Awards and we Are
Power.
Well, today I am joined by theamazing Ruth Hartnett.
(00:50):
Hello, visionary B Corp-er.
Thanks.
Entrepreneur, superhero,multiple roles, matchstick
co-founder.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Welcome to the pod, hello, hello friend, nice, to
sit with you and be recordedhaving one of our conversations.
Well, do you know what I feellike?
It's just going to be like oneof our chats, first time in a
chat in a pub.
Yeah, loveline Brewery was thelast one, wasn't it?
Yeah, it was yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So actually yeah, it's not always a pub, but
actually yeah, probably is.
But we're going to go on anadventure today around the, the
trials, the tribulations, theups, the down, the fun, the
adventures that comes with beingan entrepreneur which is, quite
frankly, bonkers at times.
Yeah, it's the same thing.
Don't do it, but where did itstart?
(01:34):
Where did it start?
Yeah, there you go.
Thank you, thanks for joiningus today.
Where did it all start for you?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
um, so matchstick uh was originally called jnr and it
came out of someone that I usedto work with approaching me and
saying you know, I'll do sales,you do the creative bit and
we'll just like start a businesstogether.
And I was like sounds great, Ihate sales, I don't want to do
that at all.
And then about six weeks intothat journey it just became
really apparent I didn't havethe language for it then, but it
(02:00):
became really apparent that wejust weren't a very good match
and it's because the culture fitwas wrong.
But I didn't know that until Iwent on the journey of founding
a B Corp and finding my nowco-founder, greg hello, Greg,
who's the one that took us onthat journey and was like it
doesn't have to be this way, man, it can be fun.
I was like can it?
So he sort of got us into the BCorp movement and he was the
(02:21):
one that made us morepurpose-driven.
Then we figured all that stuffout together over the last five
or six years.
But yeah, I literally gotstarted because someone asked it
wasn't me being like I'm gonnago start a business.
I was approached and said I'lldo that.
And then six weeks in was likeI will do that, but not with you
.
But how did?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
you exit that relationship because it's easy
sometimes to stay.
It's easy to sort of stop stillisn't it then make the
difficult, awkward decision.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I think, um, do you know what credit to the person I
was dealing with?
At the time, they both of usjust sort of looked at each
other and said this isn't quiteright.
Um, so I was annoyed at thetime but now, like, what a small
moment on quite a long and, youknow, significant journey.
So credit to both of us.
I think at that six week pointI was just like it just isn't
right, is it?
And that's okay, like I'll goon to do a thing and you can
(03:10):
carry on doing what you're doing, and we just sort of parted
ways amicably.
It's really common.
That isn't what happens.
It's loads of people I know,particularly recently, where
they start on that journey andit just doesn't work and that's
really tricky.
So in that way, I wasincredibly fortunate that it
just happened to go that way.
So thanks.
Previous partner and we'vealready shouted out super Greg
(03:30):
but yeah which is his full titlethat is in fact his official
name yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
How long was it then before you found what your ideal
match?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
yeah, very good sorry , very good um, so weirdly, uh,
I used to get drum lessons fromthe lovely Davey Kelly another
shout out there um, and his drumstudio is based in elevator
studios and Greg, my nowco-founder, was literally moving
out of his office and I was sathaving a pint with Dave and
(04:01):
Dave was like, oh, this is Greg,he's a web developer.
I was like, oh, a pint withDave.
And Dave was like, oh, this isGreg, he's a web developer.
I was like, oh, what do you do,greg?
And we sat down and had a chatfor 30 minutes and thus history
was made.
So he started out as afreelancer and sort of
co-creator and after about Idon't know, and that was like 18
months into the journey.
So it was about a year where Iwas doing it on my own really.
But then, yeah, slowly, like,greg became part of it, became a
(04:26):
director, and we're now wherewe are today.
It literally wouldn't look theway it would look without him,
and he's also the verydefinition of an incredible ally
and male feminist.
He is, in my opinion, one ofthe greatest feminists I know.
So, yeah, credit to Greg.
We do all the b corp stuff andall that and that is so
important like advocacy forgender equality is critical.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
It's not a woman's problem to solve, right?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
no, not at all no, and Greg Greg is uh.
Anyone who's met him will knowhe is one of the best people for
being in that conversation.
So, yeah, a much better fit forme as a co-founder and did you
always feel like you werepurpose-led?
I think when I so, when I veryfirst and the reason why Greg
sort of vaguely knew who I wasuh, pre-meeting, when I first
started J&R as we were called, Iwent on a thing about trying to
(05:08):
work with female founders.
So I was very much like I wantto work with other female
founder businesses, I want tosupport you if you're a woman in
business.
So I had like the kernel of anidea of being like support a
group that is perhaps slightlyunder supported.
But then Greg sort of expandedthat thinking and was like yes,
absolutely that problem, butalso all these other things that
you might not have considered,and I was like, oh, that's
really interesting, we canexpand that thinking and make it
(05:33):
to do with inequality ratherthan to do with sexism
specifically.
And by opening that up it tookus on the journey to B Corp and
thinking about how to bepurpose-led.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So yeah, and tell us about that, because that is B
Corp is.
Congratulations, thanks, yeah.
It's not mission easy, is it?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
No, it is not.
And you know Greg is now alsopart of he's a co-chair of the B
Local group.
So if you're someone who's inLiverpool City region in
particular and you want to getinvolved in B Corp or
considering it, talk to thatgroup of people.
But yeah, like it's tricky,we're just about to recertify.
So we certified in 2022.
We need to recertify this year.
(06:13):
It will look very differentfrom when we first did it.
I probably, to be totallyhonest with you, I probably
wouldn't recommend it for microbusinesses.
Our business has changed shapeand form over the years.
We're now a team of two at themoment with a really excellent
network of freelancers.
So for me, I probably wouldn'tgo through that process now, but
at the time we did it, it wasabsolutely the right thing to do
and we will recertify becauseit's so valuable to us.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
And you talk about those challenges, about sort of
growing a business, and nowyou've changed shape what have
you learned most about that.
Because change is great,because it can come about and
bring great opportunities, butit also can come with pain,
right?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, particularly inrelation to the size of the
company.
It's really personally quite adifficult thing to resolve in
your head because we're fed acompletely inaccurate picture of
running a business where thingsvery linearly go up and up and
up and if it doesn't follow thattrajectory you have failed.
And it's just not true.
First of all, because oftenwhat happens is you go up, you
(07:09):
hit a massive pitfall.
You go up slightly, a bit more,you hit another pitfall, then
you go up a little bit more anda bit more, and sometimes you
will have a couple of yearsrising.
It's really likely you'll havetwo or three years where you
fall quite a bit.
So I suppose one of the mainmessages I would say is if that
happens, you haven't failed.
And there's so many thingsworking against us at the moment
.
It is really unstable,uncertain times and there's also
(07:33):
a mindset I find, particularlyin places like LinkedIn, where
it's like just try harder andit's like no, that's inaccurate.
It's so inaccurate to sayworking harder and using that
old capitalist model of thinkingwill result in you having more
turnover, having more profit andyou having more staff members.
It simply isn't the caseanymore and I always have a bit
of a rallying cry when I'm inconversations like this to say
(07:55):
it's not just you.
There are so many thingsworking against you and lean
into that.
So I think for me the biggestlesson over the last five or six
years has been now that.
So I think for me the biggestlesson over the last five or six
years it has been now.
Uh, it is not always an upwardtrajectory.
It is often a mix of down andup, and that is valid and good
too and I think it's thelearning, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
it's the learning from.
Both isn't it?
You learn from the wins andcelebrate those wins.
Yeah, and so, within, amongstthose challenges, what have been
those big wins for you?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
so there's been lots of big wins.
Every single person we hiredwas wonderful, like huge credit
to anyone who's ever worked inMatchstick.
I didn't really understand whatgood culture meant until I had
to go through the process ofbeing like who do I want to work
with and also how do we createa space that people want to work
in.
So any Matchstick we've hired,if you're listening, you're
wonderful and we're deeplyhonoured to have had you as part
(08:43):
of our team.
The other big wins finding Greg.
It absolutely changed thetrajectory of what we were doing
.
So, yeah, definitely that Ithink as well.
Going through the B Corp processand then having to embed that
framework into everything we did.
It's now led to the most recentiteration of the business that
we were working on last year andsort of relaunching this year
in February with our rebrand.
It on last year and are sort ofrelaunching this year in
(09:05):
February with our rebrand.
It's not just about originallywe were very much a marketing
and comms agency.
We're now also doing stuff likebusiness transformation,
talking to people about how theymake more work for small
working spaces.
That's because of B Corp andliving with that thinking for
two or three years.
So big wins.
Definitely B Corp trying to domore purpose-led stuff.
Just being a bit of a pain inthe ass, sat in the room, just
(09:25):
being in rooms where no one'stalking about the fact that
those old structures don't workand those old systems don't
serve a lot of people.
So just being that person andbeing vocal and having the huge
opportunity and fortune to dothat um, being part of the
boards I know we'll come on totalk about some of the positions
I've got outside of Matchstick.
Those are massive opportunitiesand massive highs and also,
just like all of the work we'veproduced, I think, one of the
(09:48):
things I like.
By nature I'm a copywriter.
The trade that I learned was Ilearned to write and I applied
it to a commercial setting.
So anytime I got to sit downand write a case study, I get
like PTSD because it's all I hadto do for other people and I'm
like god, I don't want to writeanother case study, written
hundreds of them.
But anytime I do it for us,it's basically like saying look
at all the hard work you did.
So that's always a nice momenttoo, to be like shit, we did
that.
(10:08):
That's cool yeah, high five,high five yeah you talked.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I just want to sort of look at the talk about the
culture yeah there's so muchtalk.
We've talked about the, the,the, the love of linkedin yes,
but you know, there's so much,lots of chat, gpt orientated
stuff yeah, I'll let you we'llget on to that.
How does that sit with acopywriter specialist?
But, um, but culture.
Is it harder or easier, do youthink, to build that culture
(10:38):
within a micro, as it is withinsome of those big multinationals
?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I think you're looking at two slightly
different challenges, ormultiple different challenges
there, depending on the size ofthe team we've had.
The biggest we've ever been waslike 12 people, who were a mix
of full-time and part-time.
I personally feel and you canthe staff would be the best
testament to this, but they'renot here, hopefully.
I feel like we got the culturepretty right there and there was
loads of stuff we made asdecisions I was really proud of.
(11:03):
However, going and shrinking toa team of just the two of us
now, with a group of freelancersloads of the thinking that we
embedded and thought about whenwe were the size of 12, 5, 10
people because it fluctuatesquite a lot.
It's still present now, eventhe way that, like if greg's
having a bad day, if I'm havinga bad day, or if one of us is
sick, or if one of us is gettingmarried, like how do we handle
(11:25):
that is?
It is part of the culture weembedded four years ago when we
had team members.
So I think, as a micro business, if you go through those like
levels of fluctuation, whateveryou started with the roots of
that genuinely loads that likeloads of those values, loads of
that thinking still transposeswhen there's just two of you.
It also transposes to how youdeal with your freelancers.
(11:47):
Freelancers are treated terribly.
Um, we try to treat them asfairly as we can, as much as our
cash flow will allow it.
I'm sorry to every freelancerwe've paid late.
That's totally the cash flow'sfault, um, but yeah, like
anytime, we're dealing withpeople as well.
We just say if I was afreelancer, how would I want to
be treated so definitely that Ifyou're dealing with a larger
organization, honestly I don'tthink I've got the experience to
(12:07):
talk about that, because thebiggest organization I've ever
worked for was like 35 people.
So I've always been in SMEs.
So the cultures that I've seenin larger organisations, I find
that pockets of it do it reallywell and that's usually a
reflection of like a littlemicrocosm of the business and
some of the values we've seen.
Really it's down to the peopleand how much they care about it,
but across the organisation, Ithink much harder to achieve if
(12:30):
you're a bigger organisation,for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Without it being a tick box.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, without it being like HR have told us to do
this really tricky to achieve.
That's hard work.
I've never had to do that, so Iwouldn't know and just moving
into your side hustles yeah,like so um 18 months ago,
something like that.
Now you were appointed when youwas the the co-chair, so yeah,
the deputy chair of the businessand enterprise board for
Liverpool city region.
Um, it's a bit of a bigorganization, right?
Speaker 1 (12:58):
yeah, yeah, yeah, to cover yeah, the combined
authority.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Um, so if anyone is listening and doesn't really
know what the combined authorityis, they're effectively the the
very large group of people thatlook out, look after liverpool
city region, and it's steve,rotherham and katherine who are
the leaders of that organization.
So they're the people we dealwith most in those positions.
Um, I do it with my verybrilliant chair, david Mayowitz,
as a partner on that.
Yeah, just an incredibleopportunity that that board
(13:24):
position has led me to be in aroom full of very interesting,
cool people who are working veryhard to do good things across
our city region.
It's got me to the Houses ofParliament to talk about net
zero.
Like loads of amazing stuff'scome out of that that you can't
predict unless you give yourselfthat opportunity.
And like incredibly easy forsomeone like me, who's only like
35, to be like why on earth amI deputy chair of the region's
(13:47):
business board?
That's entirely the reason whyI am, because they had a very
clear mission when theyreorganized all those boards to
do very differently to whatthey'd done before, and me and
David were that criteria.
So we got the jobs.
So if anyone is listening orwatching and is like I couldn't
be the chair of a board orwhatever.
Yeah, you can and you're waymore qualified than you think
(14:07):
you are, particularly if you'vekind of got nothing to lose.
I find when I'm in that find,when I'm in those board meetings
, I'm a bit like well, I'm adeputy chair.
It gives it kind of gives youlike immunity, just to be a bit
like they won't finish talking,be quiet, like you can be a bit
like no, no, stop.
So yeah, I think it alsoempowers you to be slightly more
confident version of yourself,which is lovely, and you talked
(14:29):
earlier about using your voicein the room.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, yeah, and people want to do that, but they
sometimes fearful of going.
God, whatever say the wrongthing or actually I don't know
enough to input here, so I'lljust be an observer of why.
What would you say?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
um, I would say frame your response as curiosity is
quite a good hack.
So I was in a meeting yesterday, for example.
We were talking about brandingfor something and I said they
presented something to us and Iwas like that's really
interesting, coming from a placeof curiosity, how did you
arrive at that insight?
So, rather than say like why onearth have you made that
decision, which is the unfair,cruel thing, particularly if
(15:09):
you're someone that's beeninvolved in branding projects,
so much conversation has gone onto get to that point that you
need to be kind and empatheticto the people who've gone on
that journey.
So it's a bit like coming froma place of curiosity when was
that insight from?
That's really interesting.
And then it opens it up sopeople don't feel attacked.
I think that's quite useful,particularly if you're not
feeling massively confident.
Just say it like feigningignorance.
(15:31):
You can be like so I don't knowthis thing.
That'd be really interesting ifyou could explain that to me.
I'm curious to hear what you'vegot to say Like approach it
with enthusiasm and a bit ofcuriosity and you will never
look stupid.
And if someone makes you feelstupid, that's with them, so
it's not with you.
Mental note, right here.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, that is the best top tip and you're also on
the board.
A part of the Lifted, theLifted.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Project.
Yes, the incredible LiftedProject.
Yes, the incredible LiftedProject that's founded by many
brilliant women, particularlyZandra.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Zandra Moore MBE.
Zandra Moore MBE recently thisyear.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Well done, miss Moore .
Yes, amazing news, no, yeah,another really interesting
project where they're trying toget more investment for female
founders in lots of differentregional clusters.
I'm involved in the LiverpoolCity Region one, I suppose.
Again, going back to the pointabout feeling qualified or
underqualified I know nothingabout investment, can't stress
this enough like it's somethingthat my type of business
(16:27):
probably isn't very well suitedfor.
So I sort of approached thatboard position with a bit of
curiosity, again, being like Idon't know anything about.
It wouldn't be the great way tolearn about it to be on a board
with a load of people that doso.
I just sort of put myself inthe room and was like it would
be really interesting to learnabout this.
So I did so again, like even ifyou're applying for a board,
you're like I've got no directexperience, that doesn't matter,
(16:47):
you can still add something, sojust go for it and what?
Speaker 1 (16:51):
outside of all of this, I'm not I'm not really a
big fan of the whole.
Oh, how do you have it all andwork-life balance, because I
think everything just gets veryblurred.
You talked about, you know,getting married this year.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yes, I am, congratulations, Thank you.
April, not too far away now.
Yes, it's very near, veryexciting.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
You've also mentioned drums.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I literally scribbled that down right at the start of
our conversation.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Not that your wedding is an outside hobby, but what
is going on in?
Your outside of matchstick,outside of your board roles?
Are you still playing drums?
Are you planning a wedding?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, Sadly, I don't play drums enough anymore.
Sorry, Dave, you were such agood teacher.
No, I'm not playing enoughdrums at all, I suppose outside
of work.
I think the reason why lastyear in particular 2022 and 2023
, as Greg will attest were veryhard years.
They were not easy to run abusiness in.
I think a lot of peoplestruggled.
We sort of really really feltthe impact of COVID two years
after it happened for our typeof business.
(17:46):
So it was everyone's budgetshrunk.
It was really hard.
We had the biggest team we everhad and less income.
So there was a lot of difficultstuff going on.
Then, 2024, I think at thebeginning of it, we just sort of
both looked at each other andsaid this is the year we're just
gonna have to look afterourselves.
And in the entire time ofrunning the business we've never
said that.
We always said how do we lookafter the team?
(18:07):
What do we do for them?
We kind of needed to, partlybecause we were both very burnt
out, but also because we had noother option.
The option was look afterourselves or have nothing to
look after.
So we did basically, and indoing that and allowing
ourselves that breathing room,all the stuff in the personal
life.
Flourished because it meantwhen I was finishing work, I was
really finishing work when Iwas thinking about I don't know
(18:30):
if anyone's ever planned awedding.
Who's listening to this I sawit as like the ultimate creative
live event.
Brief.
It was just like it was so funto think about.
I feel like our colleague inthe background it absolutely is,
and I think as someone thatputs events on with fire
starters which is the otherthing we do outside of
matchstick um, it was justreally fun to think about Like
(18:53):
what a cool thing to think about.
How can I entertain all thepeople I love for a day, like
great brief.
So I think for me that made allof that stuff way easier.
We also cheated and used theproject management tool we have
at Matchstick to make planningthe wedding easier.
Hot tip use Asana for planninga wedding.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
There's always side hacks and everything.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
There is and.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I think another real powerful tool is other humans,
and I think the one thing that Iknow about you, ruth, is you're
always very, very generous withgiving your time and your ear
to other people and to listenand to take action and to do,
and it's a couple of years agonow that you formed our Female
(19:33):
Founders WhatsApp group in.
Liverpool and it started in afantastic lovely lunch at Marais
, and we convene in big numbers,small numbers, individual
numbers, but it's the power ofthat community and tribe
particularly around femalefounders.
I know we all have a millionWhatsApp groups, families,
business, you know, et cetera,but it is important, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
That ability to be able to give and gain yeah,
absolutely, and to massivelycredit uh chelsea slater here
who founded, innovate her.
It was 100 chelsea's idea.
When we did that very firstmeal a couple of years ago, she
was like we know loads of womenin business who are struggling.
She would just organize a meal.
It was like great idea.
So we did, we did it together,um, and then very organically,
it became the female foundersgroup, a part of and welcome
(20:18):
other people to.
Now it's such a that's such aninteresting side entity to me
because you can't emulate whatthat group does organically
together and even the way wespeak to each other in that
WhatsApp group.
Like the last time we met up atLovelane, a friend of mine,
christine, was there and shejoined us temporarily, then had
to go to go home and she sent mea message afterwards and was
like I just can't get over howlovely and kind you all were to
(20:40):
each other and how candidly youspoke together and I was like it
makes me really sad you don'thave that group, because we
should all have that group, sowe need to welcome her.
But also, yeah, like find yourtribe is such an important
message.
But I personally have found youoften find that tribe by making
it yourself.
I'm very much a if you want itdone, do it yourself person, so,
yeah, we're very, very lucky tobe part of that group of people
(21:02):
.
It's such an interesting groupof people, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (21:04):
So, yeah, that is a good group, good support group.
It is so good and I'm reallygutted, actually, because we
talked about vision boarding atthe last get up and I can't be
at it.
And get up and I can't be at itand I'm like I'll host it.
You can do it in the office andthen we I'm down in that, their
London town, but it's all aboutfemale founders in London, so
it's all good that's my, that ismy get out of jail.
But there is that sense and itis that it's that safe place.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Safe place isn't it yeah um, you know it's, uh, I'm
being.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I think it is that candid approach.
What would you say?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
your superpower is um , I think my superpower is being
the glue, and I think there area lot of women who have to
fulfill this role.
Christina, who has been on thepodcast very recently, in fact,
and is also part of our femalefounders group, she sort of said
to me it's so nice not to haveto be the glue for once.
And I was like isn't it lovelywhen someone else says what are
(21:54):
we doing?
When are we doing it?
We're doing it here, it here,I've organized it, here's the
invite.
I often fulfill that role.
I do it willingly because Ihave the capacity to do it.
I'm child free by design, so itis much easier for me to give
my time to those things.
And it is with someone withcaring responsibilities.
So I'm a bit like if I want todo it, I'll do it, and if I
don't, I just won't.
So anytime that I'm putting mytime into getting people
together, it's because I want to.
(22:15):
So glue, glue.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Stickiness is glue and stickiness.
Yeah, we mentioned it.
Uh, so I just want to come backto very quickly.
You started life as, not lifein it.
You know, out of the out of thewomb, but as a copywriter, I
don't know, maybe you did.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Who knows I was writing as I came out.
Yeah, indeed, you know thetalent.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
You've always been talented.
Chat GPT where does that fitinto your world and ethos and
value system?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
So I actually think it's a really interesting tool
for copywriters.
Not because it should replacethe thing you're doing, but
often, and particularly the waymarketing budgets are going,
everyone's teams are shrinking.
Either you're not in a team atall it's very common to be the
only marketer having to do a lotof things or, particularly if
you're a copywriter, it's reallylikely you're the only writer
in that company.
I see it as a sparring partner.
(23:02):
So if you're trying to come upwith, we do a lot of like brand
voice work at Matchstick, sowe'll do brand identity work and
then it's my job to figure outa company's values and
personality.
Chatgpt is a really goodsparring partner if you haven't
got anyone sat opposite youwhich is often the case because
we do most of our work remotenow at Matchstick so I think for
me I use it as like, if notthat this, then that, so you ask
(23:24):
it questions and it'll be likethis nonsensical thing.
But because it said anonsensical thing, it pushes
your head into a different spacewhich gives you the answer you
need.
So I see it as like abrainstorming tool rather than a
replacement tool.
I don't know how other peopleuse it, it's how you coach it, I
suppose, and guide and train it.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely so I find it useful.
Yeah, and we've talked aboutthe wedding you know, there may
or may not be sort of back todrums at some point down the
line.
There'll be a vision boardingbut you've got the rebrands
coming up very, very soon aswell exciting.
What are you most lookingforward to?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
we've said it's it's challenging times yeah, I think
the, the rebrand who was createdby the absolutely incredible I
am female studio based out ofLondon.
They did our rebrand for us.
Um, that is such a big momentwe've done effectively over the
course of five or six years.
We've done the first iteration,which was J&R, we did the
(24:15):
rebrand that became Matchstick,and then we've got this most
recent version of us.
Because we do so much brandwork, we've obviously got really
high standards for it and weknow the process very intimately
.
So I think, for me, I'mincredibly excited with what's
possible with us doing that andwho it introduces us to, so I'm
really looking forward to it.
It's also really soon, so it'svery front of mind for me.
(24:35):
So the rebrand is a huge thing.
I'm really looking forward tothat, and it also means we can
sort of properly articulateourselves in a way we haven't
done before.
So also, even from a copyrightpoint of view, quite a fun thing
to think about, to be honest.
Um, so, yeah, definitely that,and also just the, the renewed
energy we have after givingourselves a year to recuperate
(24:55):
and hide away and not bemassively present, because we
spent five years being reallyvisible and doing everything we
possibly could.
Having a retreating year wasactually amazing.
It was lovely.
Highly recommend hobbiting fora whole year.
Um, and this year we're backback at it, back visible again.
So you'll see that fromFebruary going on and you've
been so honest today.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
You're always very honest always very candid and
you enable that.
I think in others, in in thegroup, in the tribe.
So for anyone watching orlistening who wants to or is
considering following in thefootsteps of being an
entrepreneur or forming apartnership with someone, what
advice would you pass on to them, because you've been brilliant
(25:36):
hacks today?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
thanks, uh, yeah, so at the beginning I said don't do
it, um I'd probably like torevise that answer slightly.
Um, I would say um.
I think the the point at whichI was doing it, I was blinded by
confidence and optimism and Ithink that is pretty critical.
If you want to start a business, try not to think too
(25:58):
practically at the beginning,which sounds like a mad thing to
say.
You're forced to think that wayas soon as you take on other
people and you're responsiblefor their responsibilities.
So at the beginning, if you'reconsidering running a business,
my God, just go head and heartfirst and get on with shit.
If I look back at the amount ofstuff we achieved in the first
two years of Matchstick, it'sstaggering.
I couldn't do it now.
(26:18):
I haven't got the energy for itbecause all my energy got taken
in those first five years ofthe business.
So I think as soon as you'vegot the energy, get on with it
and start doing it and get otherpeople energized by how much
you care about it.
So just throw everything at itif you're thinking about it and,
equally, stay as small as youcan for as long as you can would
(26:39):
be quite practical advice Ihave for right now, in the
current climate really do asmuch as you can with a very
small group of trusted peopleand, as much as you can, try not
to give yourself more work thanyou have to.
So which, simone, you'reterrible at.
So just as a note for everyonelistening, simone always does
too much.
So, yeah, like definitely giveyourself a manageable amount,
(27:03):
but just go at it like reallyreally throw yourself into it,
because if you're not at thatlevel of energy for your own
business, you'll never.
You'll never make it.
It's that clear to me, becauseif I didn't have that energy at
the beginning, we just wouldn'tbe where we are now, at a much
calmer stage.
But I needed all that energy atthe beginning to get to the
calm stage.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
And finally, I think I've said I'm finally three
times but it's okay.
The hobby in gear.
What was your highlight of thathobby in you?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
So definitely planning the wedding.
That's been absolutely amazing.
Shout out to the future.
Out.
But you mean the live event.
Yes, the live creativecollaboration I've done with my
future husband, Joseph Wilding.
Yeah, no, that's been reallynice to plan and we came up with
like branding for it andeverything was so weird.
So it's been such a fun thingto do.
So that's been incredible.
I think, also just like havingthe opportunity like over the
(27:50):
summer, for example, it becomesincredibly quiet at agencies so
we just said why don't we justdo a four-day week for the
summer?
That was a really smart move.
So we worked really quite hardfor those four days but we had
so much breathing room and wealso didn't have to take that
much holiday, which meant wecould still be available to
people.
So really building in likeroutines around rest and then
having a big thing to lookforward to that that was the
(28:12):
stuff that was really enjoyablelast year.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Ruth, thank you.
I wish you so so much love forthe wedding.
Thank you, sorry I can't bewith you oh, that's quite okay.
I'm gutted, but no, thank youso much um really looking
forward to seeing the outputs ofthe vision boards as well.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, high five to Greg, high five to all of our
female founders.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Thank you so much for joining us today on the we Are
Power podcast, thank you.
Thanks for having me Subscribeon YouTube, apple, amazon Music,
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(28:54):
power on YouTube.
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast.
If this is your first time here, the we Are Power podcast is
the podcast for you, your careerand your life.
We release an episode everysingle Monday with listeners in
over 60 countries worldwide,where you'll hear personal life
stories, top-notch industryadvice and key leadership
insight from amazing role models.
(00:21):
As we Are Power is the umbrellabrand to Northern Power Women
Awards, which celebrateshundreds of female role models
and advocates every year.
This is where you can hearstories from all of our awards
alumni and stay up to date witheverything MPW Awards and we Are
Power.
Well, today I am joined by theamazing Ruth Hartnett.
(00:50):
Hello, visionary B Corp-er.
Thanks.
Entrepreneur, superhero,multiple roles, matchstick
co-founder.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Welcome to the pod, hello, hello friend, nice, to
sit with you and be recordedhaving one of our conversations.
Well, do you know what I feellike?
It's just going to be like oneof our chats, first time in a
chat in a pub.
Yeah, loveline Brewery was thelast one, wasn't it?
Yeah, it was yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So actually yeah, it's not always a pub, but
actually yeah, probably is.
But we're going to go on anadventure today around the, the
trials, the tribulations, theups, the down, the fun, the
adventures that comes with beingan entrepreneur which is, quite
frankly, bonkers at times.
Yeah, it's the same thing.
Don't do it, but where did itstart?
(01:34):
Where did it start?
Yeah, there you go.
Thank you, thanks for joiningus today.
Where did it all start for you?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
um, so matchstick uh was originally called jnr and it
came out of someone that I usedto work with approaching me and
saying you know, I'll do sales,you do the creative bit and
we'll just like start a businesstogether.
And I was like sounds great, Ihate sales, I don't want to do
that at all.
And then about six weeks intothat journey it just became
really apparent I didn't havethe language for it then, but it
(02:00):
became really apparent that wejust weren't a very good match
and it's because the culture fitwas wrong.
But I didn't know that until Iwent on the journey of founding
a B Corp and finding my nowco-founder, greg hello, Greg,
who's the one that took us onthat journey and was like it
doesn't have to be this way, man, it can be fun.
I was like can it?
So he sort of got us into the BCorp movement and he was the
(02:21):
one that made us morepurpose-driven.
Then we figured all that stuffout together over the last five
or six years.
But yeah, I literally gotstarted because someone asked it
wasn't me being like I'm gonnago start a business.
I was approached and said I'lldo that.
And then six weeks in was likeI will do that, but not with you
.
But how did?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
you exit that relationship because it's easy
sometimes to stay.
It's easy to sort of stop stillisn't it then make the
difficult, awkward decision.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I think, um, do you know what credit to the person I
was dealing with?
At the time, they both of usjust sort of looked at each
other and said this isn't quiteright.
Um, so I was annoyed at thetime but now, like, what a small
moment on quite a long and, youknow, significant journey.
So credit to both of us.
I think at that six week pointI was just like it just isn't
right, is it?
And that's okay, like I'll goon to do a thing and you can
(03:10):
carry on doing what you're doing, and we just sort of parted
ways amicably.
It's really common.
That isn't what happens.
It's loads of people I know,particularly recently, where
they start on that journey andit just doesn't work and that's
really tricky.
So in that way, I wasincredibly fortunate that it
just happened to go that way.
So thanks.
Previous partner and we'vealready shouted out super Greg
(03:30):
but yeah which is his full titlethat is in fact his official
name yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
How long was it then before you found what your ideal
match?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
yeah, very good sorry , very good um, so weirdly, uh,
I used to get drum lessons fromthe lovely Davey Kelly another
shout out there um, and his drumstudio is based in elevator
studios and Greg, my nowco-founder, was literally moving
out of his office and I was sathaving a pint with Dave and
(04:01):
Dave was like, oh, this is Greg,he's a web developer.
I was like, oh, a pint withDave.
And Dave was like, oh, this isGreg, he's a web developer.
I was like, oh, what do you do,greg?
And we sat down and had a chatfor 30 minutes and thus history
was made.
So he started out as afreelancer and sort of
co-creator and after about Idon't know, and that was like 18
months into the journey.
So it was about a year where Iwas doing it on my own really.
But then, yeah, slowly, like,greg became part of it, became a
(04:26):
director, and we're now wherewe are today.
It literally wouldn't look theway it would look without him,
and he's also the verydefinition of an incredible ally
and male feminist.
He is, in my opinion, one ofthe greatest feminists I know.
So, yeah, credit to Greg.
We do all the b corp stuff andall that and that is so
important like advocacy forgender equality is critical.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
It's not a woman's problem to solve, right?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
no, not at all no, and Greg Greg is uh.
Anyone who's met him will knowhe is one of the best people for
being in that conversation.
So, yeah, a much better fit forme as a co-founder and did you
always feel like you werepurpose-led?
I think when I so, when I veryfirst and the reason why Greg
sort of vaguely knew who I wasuh, pre-meeting, when I first
started J&R as we were called, Iwent on a thing about trying to
(05:08):
work with female founders.
So I was very much like I wantto work with other female
founder businesses, I want tosupport you if you're a woman in
business.
So I had like the kernel of anidea of being like support a
group that is perhaps slightlyunder supported.
But then Greg sort of expandedthat thinking and was like yes,
absolutely that problem, butalso all these other things that
you might not have considered,and I was like, oh, that's
really interesting, we canexpand that thinking and make it
(05:33):
to do with inequality ratherthan to do with sexism
specifically.
And by opening that up it tookus on the journey to B Corp and
thinking about how to bepurpose-led.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
So yeah, and tell us about that, because that is B
Corp is.
Congratulations, thanks, yeah.
It's not mission easy, is it?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
No, it is not.
And you know Greg is now alsopart of he's a co-chair of the B
Local group.
So if you're someone who's inLiverpool City region in
particular and you want to getinvolved in B Corp or
considering it, talk to thatgroup of people.
But yeah, like it's tricky,we're just about to recertify.
So we certified in 2022.
We need to recertify this year.
(06:13):
It will look very differentfrom when we first did it.
I probably, to be totallyhonest with you, I probably
wouldn't recommend it for microbusinesses.
Our business has changed shapeand form over the years.
We're now a team of two at themoment with a really excellent
network of freelancers.
So for me, I probably wouldn'tgo through that process now, but
at the time we did it, it wasabsolutely the right thing to do
and we will recertify becauseit's so valuable to us.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
And you talk about those challenges, about sort of
growing a business, and nowyou've changed shape what have
you learned most about that.
Because change is great,because it can come about and
bring great opportunities, butit also can come with pain,
right?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think, particularly inrelation to the size of the
company.
It's really personally quite adifficult thing to resolve in
your head because we're fed acompletely inaccurate picture of
running a business where thingsvery linearly go up and up and
up and if it doesn't follow thattrajectory you have failed.
And it's just not true.
First of all, because oftenwhat happens is you go up, you
(07:09):
hit a massive pitfall.
You go up slightly, a bit more,you hit another pitfall, then
you go up a little bit more anda bit more, and sometimes you
will have a couple of yearsrising.
It's really likely you'll havetwo or three years where you
fall quite a bit.
So I suppose one of the mainmessages I would say is if that
happens, you haven't failed.
And there's so many thingsworking against us at the moment
.
It is really unstable,uncertain times and there's also
(07:33):
a mindset I find, particularlyin places like LinkedIn, where
it's like just try harder andit's like no, that's inaccurate.
It's so inaccurate to sayworking harder and using that
old capitalist model of thinkingwill result in you having more
turnover, having more profit andyou having more staff members.
It simply isn't the caseanymore and I always have a bit
of a rallying cry when I'm inconversations like this to say
(07:55):
it's not just you.
There are so many thingsworking against you and lean
into that.
So I think for me the biggestlesson over the last five or six
years has been now that.
So I think for me the biggestlesson over the last five or six
years it has been now.
Uh, it is not always an upwardtrajectory.
It is often a mix of down andup, and that is valid and good
too and I think it's thelearning, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
it's the learning from.
Both isn't it?
You learn from the wins andcelebrate those wins.
Yeah, and so, within, amongstthose challenges, what have been
those big wins for you?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
so there's been lots of big wins.
Every single person we hiredwas wonderful, like huge credit
to anyone who's ever worked inMatchstick.
I didn't really understand whatgood culture meant until I had
to go through the process ofbeing like who do I want to work
with and also how do we createa space that people want to work
in.
So any Matchstick we've hired,if you're listening, you're
wonderful and we're deeplyhonoured to have had you as part
(08:43):
of our team.
The other big wins finding Greg.
It absolutely changed thetrajectory of what we were doing
.
So, yeah, definitely that Ithink as well.
Going through the B Corp processand then having to embed that
framework into everything we did.
It's now led to the most recentiteration of the business that
we were working on last year andsort of relaunching this year
in February with our rebrand.
It on last year and are sort ofrelaunching this year in
(09:05):
February with our rebrand.
It's not just about originallywe were very much a marketing
and comms agency.
We're now also doing stuff likebusiness transformation,
talking to people about how theymake more work for small
working spaces.
That's because of B Corp andliving with that thinking for
two or three years.
So big wins.
Definitely B Corp trying to domore purpose-led stuff.
Just being a bit of a pain inthe ass, sat in the room, just
(09:25):
being in rooms where no one'stalking about the fact that
those old structures don't workand those old systems don't
serve a lot of people.
So just being that person andbeing vocal and having the huge
opportunity and fortune to dothat um, being part of the
boards I know we'll come on totalk about some of the positions
I've got outside of Matchstick.
Those are massive opportunitiesand massive highs and also,
just like all of the work we'veproduced, I think, one of the
(09:48):
things I like.
By nature I'm a copywriter.
The trade that I learned was Ilearned to write and I applied
it to a commercial setting.
So anytime I got to sit downand write a case study, I get
like PTSD because it's all I hadto do for other people and I'm
like god, I don't want to writeanother case study, written
hundreds of them.
But anytime I do it for us,it's basically like saying look
at all the hard work you did.
So that's always a nice momenttoo, to be like shit, we did
that.
(10:08):
That's cool yeah, high five,high five yeah you talked.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I just want to sort of look at the talk about the
culture yeah there's so muchtalk.
We've talked about the, the,the, the love of linkedin yes,
but you know, there's so much,lots of chat, gpt orientated
stuff yeah, I'll let you we'llget on to that.
How does that sit with acopywriter specialist?
But, um, but culture.
Is it harder or easier, do youthink, to build that culture
(10:38):
within a micro, as it is withinsome of those big multinationals
?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
I think you're looking at two slightly
different challenges, ormultiple different challenges
there, depending on the size ofthe team we've had.
The biggest we've ever been waslike 12 people, who were a mix
of full-time and part-time.
I personally feel and you canthe staff would be the best
testament to this, but they'renot here, hopefully.
I feel like we got the culturepretty right there and there was
loads of stuff we made asdecisions I was really proud of.
(11:03):
However, going and shrinking toa team of just the two of us
now, with a group of freelancersloads of the thinking that we
embedded and thought about whenwe were the size of 12, 5, 10
people because it fluctuatesquite a lot.
It's still present now, eventhe way that, like if greg's
having a bad day, if I'm havinga bad day, or if one of us is
sick, or if one of us is gettingmarried, like how do we handle
(11:25):
that is?
It is part of the culture weembedded four years ago when we
had team members.
So I think, as a micro business, if you go through those like
levels of fluctuation, whateveryou started with the roots of
that genuinely loads that likeloads of those values, loads of
that thinking still transposeswhen there's just two of you.
It also transposes to how youdeal with your freelancers.
(11:47):
Freelancers are treated terribly.
Um, we try to treat them asfairly as we can, as much as our
cash flow will allow it.
I'm sorry to every freelancerwe've paid late.
That's totally the cash flow'sfault, um, but yeah, like
anytime, we're dealing withpeople as well.
We just say if I was afreelancer, how would I want to
be treated so definitely that Ifyou're dealing with a larger
organization, honestly I don'tthink I've got the experience to
(12:07):
talk about that, because thebiggest organization I've ever
worked for was like 35 people.
So I've always been in SMEs.
So the cultures that I've seenin larger organisations, I find
that pockets of it do it reallywell and that's usually a
reflection of like a littlemicrocosm of the business and
some of the values we've seen.
Really it's down to the peopleand how much they care about it,
but across the organisation, Ithink much harder to achieve if
(12:30):
you're a bigger organisation,for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Without it being a tick box.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, without it being like HR have told us to do
this really tricky to achieve.
That's hard work.
I've never had to do that, so Iwouldn't know and just moving
into your side hustles yeah,like so um 18 months ago,
something like that.
Now you were appointed when youwas the the co-chair, so yeah,
the deputy chair of the businessand enterprise board for
Liverpool city region.
Um, it's a bit of a bigorganization, right?
Speaker 1 (12:58):
yeah, yeah, yeah, to cover yeah, the combined
authority.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Um, so if anyone is listening and doesn't really
know what the combined authorityis, they're effectively the the
very large group of people thatlook out, look after liverpool
city region, and it's steve,rotherham and katherine who are
the leaders of that organization.
So they're the people we dealwith most in those positions.
Um, I do it with my verybrilliant chair, david Mayowitz,
as a partner on that.
Yeah, just an incredibleopportunity that that board
(13:24):
position has led me to be in aroom full of very interesting,
cool people who are working veryhard to do good things across
our city region.
It's got me to the Houses ofParliament to talk about net
zero.
Like loads of amazing stuff'scome out of that that you can't
predict unless you give yourselfthat opportunity.
And like incredibly easy forsomeone like me, who's only like
35, to be like why on earth amI deputy chair of the region's
(13:47):
business board?
That's entirely the reason whyI am, because they had a very
clear mission when theyreorganized all those boards to
do very differently to whatthey'd done before, and me and
David were that criteria.
So we got the jobs.
So if anyone is listening orwatching and is like I couldn't
be the chair of a board orwhatever.
Yeah, you can and you're waymore qualified than you think
(14:07):
you are, particularly if you'vekind of got nothing to lose.
I find when I'm in that find,when I'm in those board meetings
, I'm a bit like well, I'm adeputy chair.
It gives it kind of gives youlike immunity, just to be a bit
like they won't finish talking,be quiet, like you can be a bit
like no, no, stop.
So yeah, I think it alsoempowers you to be slightly more
confident version of yourself,which is lovely, and you talked
(14:29):
earlier about using your voicein the room.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, yeah, and people want to do that, but they
sometimes fearful of going.
God, whatever say the wrongthing or actually I don't know
enough to input here, so I'lljust be an observer of why.
What would you say?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
um, I would say frame your response as curiosity is
quite a good hack.
So I was in a meeting yesterday, for example.
We were talking about brandingfor something and I said they
presented something to us and Iwas like that's really
interesting, coming from a placeof curiosity, how did you
arrive at that insight?
So, rather than say like why onearth have you made that
decision, which is the unfair,cruel thing, particularly if
(15:09):
you're someone that's beeninvolved in branding projects,
so much conversation has gone onto get to that point that you
need to be kind and empatheticto the people who've gone on
that journey.
So it's a bit like coming froma place of curiosity when was
that insight from?
That's really interesting.
And then it opens it up sopeople don't feel attacked.
I think that's quite useful,particularly if you're not
feeling massively confident.
Just say it like feigningignorance.
(15:31):
You can be like so I don't knowthis thing.
That'd be really interesting ifyou could explain that to me.
I'm curious to hear what you'vegot to say Like approach it
with enthusiasm and a bit ofcuriosity and you will never
look stupid.
And if someone makes you feelstupid, that's with them, so
it's not with you.
Mental note, right here.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, that is the best top tip and you're also on
the board.
A part of the Lifted, theLifted.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Project.
Yes, the incredible LiftedProject.
Yes, the incredible LiftedProject that's founded by many
brilliant women, particularlyZandra.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Zandra Moore MBE.
Zandra Moore MBE recently thisyear.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Well done, miss Moore .
Yes, amazing news, no, yeah,another really interesting
project where they're trying toget more investment for female
founders in lots of differentregional clusters.
I'm involved in the LiverpoolCity Region one, I suppose.
Again, going back to the pointabout feeling qualified or
underqualified I know nothingabout investment, can't stress
this enough like it's somethingthat my type of business
(16:27):
probably isn't very well suitedfor.
So I sort of approached thatboard position with a bit of
curiosity, again, being like Idon't know anything about.
It wouldn't be the great way tolearn about it to be on a board
with a load of people that doso.
I just sort of put myself inthe room and was like it would
be really interesting to learnabout this.
So I did so again, like even ifyou're applying for a board,
you're like I've got no directexperience, that doesn't matter,
(16:47):
you can still add something, sojust go for it and what?
Speaker 1 (16:51):
outside of all of this, I'm not I'm not really a
big fan of the whole.
Oh, how do you have it all andwork-life balance, because I
think everything just gets veryblurred.
You talked about, you know,getting married this year.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yes, I am, congratulations, Thank you.
April, not too far away now.
Yes, it's very near, veryexciting.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
You've also mentioned drums.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
I literally scribbled that down right at the start of
our conversation.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Not that your wedding is an outside hobby, but what
is going on in?
Your outside of matchstick,outside of your board roles?
Are you still playing drums?
Are you planning a wedding?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, Sadly, I don't play drums enough anymore.
Sorry, Dave, you were such agood teacher.
No, I'm not playing enoughdrums at all, I suppose outside
of work.
I think the reason why lastyear in particular 2022 and 2023
, as Greg will attest were veryhard years.
They were not easy to run abusiness in.
I think a lot of peoplestruggled.
We sort of really really feltthe impact of COVID two years
after it happened for our typeof business.
(17:46):
So it was everyone's budgetshrunk.
It was really hard.
We had the biggest team we everhad and less income.
So there was a lot of difficultstuff going on.
Then, 2024, I think at thebeginning of it, we just sort of
both looked at each other andsaid this is the year we're just
gonna have to look afterourselves.
And in the entire time ofrunning the business we've never
said that.
We always said how do we lookafter the team?
(18:07):
What do we do for them?
We kind of needed to, partlybecause we were both very burnt
out, but also because we had noother option.
The option was look afterourselves or have nothing to
look after.
So we did basically, and indoing that and allowing
ourselves that breathing room,all the stuff in the personal
life.
Flourished because it meantwhen I was finishing work, I was
really finishing work when Iwas thinking about I don't know
(18:30):
if anyone's ever planned awedding.
Who's listening to this I sawit as like the ultimate creative
live event.
Brief.
It was just like it was so funto think about.
I feel like our colleague inthe background it absolutely is,
and I think as someone thatputs events on with fire
starters which is the otherthing we do outside of
matchstick um, it was justreally fun to think about Like
(18:53):
what a cool thing to think about.
How can I entertain all thepeople I love for a day, like
great brief.
So I think for me that made allof that stuff way easier.
We also cheated and used theproject management tool we have
at Matchstick to make planningthe wedding easier.
Hot tip use Asana for planninga wedding.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
There's always side hacks and everything.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
There is and.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I think another real powerful tool is other humans,
and I think the one thing that Iknow about you, ruth, is you're
always very, very generous withgiving your time and your ear
to other people and to listenand to take action and to do,
and it's a couple of years agonow that you formed our Female
(19:33):
Founders WhatsApp group in.
Liverpool and it started in afantastic lovely lunch at Marais
, and we convene in big numbers,small numbers, individual
numbers, but it's the power ofthat community and tribe
particularly around femalefounders.
I know we all have a millionWhatsApp groups, families,
business, you know, et cetera,but it is important, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
That ability to be able to give and gain yeah,
absolutely, and to massivelycredit uh chelsea slater here
who founded, innovate her.
It was 100 chelsea's idea.
When we did that very firstmeal a couple of years ago, she
was like we know loads of womenin business who are struggling.
She would just organize a meal.
It was like great idea.
So we did, we did it together,um, and then very organically,
it became the female foundersgroup, a part of and welcome
(20:18):
other people to.
Now it's such a that's such aninteresting side entity to me
because you can't emulate whatthat group does organically
together and even the way wespeak to each other in that
WhatsApp group.
Like the last time we met up atLovelane, a friend of mine,
christine, was there and shejoined us temporarily, then had
to go to go home and she sent mea message afterwards and was
like I just can't get over howlovely and kind you all were to
(20:40):
each other and how candidly youspoke together and I was like it
makes me really sad you don'thave that group, because we
should all have that group, sowe need to welcome her.
But also, yeah, like find yourtribe is such an important
message.
But I personally have found youoften find that tribe by making
it yourself.
I'm very much a if you want itdone, do it yourself person, so,
yeah, we're very, very lucky tobe part of that group of people
(21:02):
.
It's such an interesting groupof people, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (21:04):
So, yeah, that is a good group, good support group.
It is so good and I'm reallygutted, actually, because we
talked about vision boarding atthe last get up and I can't be
at it.
And get up and I can't be at itand I'm like I'll host it.
You can do it in the office andthen we I'm down in that, their
London town, but it's all aboutfemale founders in London, so
it's all good that's my, that ismy get out of jail.
But there is that sense and itis that it's that safe place.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Safe place isn't it yeah um, you know it's, uh, I'm
being.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
I think it is that candid approach.
What would you say?
Speaker 2 (21:31):
your superpower is um , I think my superpower is being
the glue, and I think there area lot of women who have to
fulfill this role.
Christina, who has been on thepodcast very recently, in fact,
and is also part of our femalefounders group, she sort of said
to me it's so nice not to haveto be the glue for once.
And I was like isn't it lovelywhen someone else says what are
(21:54):
we doing?
When are we doing it?
We're doing it here, it here,I've organized it, here's the
invite.
I often fulfill that role.
I do it willingly because Ihave the capacity to do it.
I'm child free by design, so itis much easier for me to give
my time to those things.
And it is with someone withcaring responsibilities.
So I'm a bit like if I want todo it, I'll do it, and if I
don't, I just won't.
So anytime that I'm putting mytime into getting people
together, it's because I want to.
(22:15):
So glue, glue.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Stickiness is glue and stickiness.
Yeah, we mentioned it.
Uh, so I just want to come backto very quickly.
You started life as, not lifein it.
You know, out of the out of thewomb, but as a copywriter, I
don't know, maybe you did.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Who knows I was writing as I came out.
Yeah, indeed, you know thetalent.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
You've always been talented.
Chat GPT where does that fitinto your world and ethos and
value system?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
So I actually think it's a really interesting tool
for copywriters.
Not because it should replacethe thing you're doing, but
often, and particularly the waymarketing budgets are going,
everyone's teams are shrinking.
Either you're not in a team atall it's very common to be the
only marketer having to do a lotof things or, particularly if
you're a copywriter, it's reallylikely you're the only writer
in that company.
I see it as a sparring partner.
(23:02):
So if you're trying to come upwith, we do a lot of like brand
voice work at Matchstick, sowe'll do brand identity work and
then it's my job to figure outa company's values and
personality.
Chatgpt is a really goodsparring partner if you haven't
got anyone sat opposite youwhich is often the case because
we do most of our work remotenow at Matchstick so I think for
me I use it as like, if notthat this, then that, so you ask
(23:24):
it questions and it'll be likethis nonsensical thing.
But because it said anonsensical thing, it pushes
your head into a different spacewhich gives you the answer you
need.
So I see it as like abrainstorming tool rather than a
replacement tool.
I don't know how other peopleuse it, it's how you coach it, I
suppose, and guide and train it.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely so I find it useful.
Yeah, and we've talked aboutthe wedding you know, there may
or may not be sort of back todrums at some point down the
line.
There'll be a vision boardingbut you've got the rebrands
coming up very, very soon aswell exciting.
What are you most lookingforward to?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
we've said it's it's challenging times yeah, I think
the, the rebrand who was createdby the absolutely incredible I
am female studio based out ofLondon.
They did our rebrand for us.
Um, that is such a big momentwe've done effectively over the
course of five or six years.
We've done the first iteration,which was J&R, we did the
(24:15):
rebrand that became Matchstick,and then we've got this most
recent version of us.
Because we do so much brandwork, we've obviously got really
high standards for it and weknow the process very intimately
.
So I think, for me, I'mincredibly excited with what's
possible with us doing that andwho it introduces us to, so I'm
really looking forward to it.
It's also really soon, so it'svery front of mind for me.
(24:35):
So the rebrand is a huge thing.
I'm really looking forward tothat, and it also means we can
sort of properly articulateourselves in a way we haven't
done before.
So also, even from a copyrightpoint of view, quite a fun thing
to think about, to be honest.
Um, so, yeah, definitely that,and also just the, the renewed
energy we have after givingourselves a year to recuperate
(24:55):
and hide away and not bemassively present, because we
spent five years being reallyvisible and doing everything we
possibly could.
Having a retreating year wasactually amazing.
It was lovely.
Highly recommend hobbiting fora whole year.
Um, and this year we're backback at it, back visible again.
So you'll see that fromFebruary going on and you've
been so honest today.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
You're always very honest always very candid and
you enable that.
I think in others, in in thegroup, in the tribe.
So for anyone watching orlistening who wants to or is
considering following in thefootsteps of being an
entrepreneur or forming apartnership with someone, what
advice would you pass on to them, because you've been brilliant
(25:36):
hacks today?
Speaker 2 (25:37):
thanks, uh, yeah, so at the beginning I said don't do
it, um I'd probably like torevise that answer slightly.
Um, I would say um.
I think the the point at whichI was doing it, I was blinded by
confidence and optimism and Ithink that is pretty critical.
If you want to start a business, try not to think too
(25:58):
practically at the beginning,which sounds like a mad thing to
say.
You're forced to think that wayas soon as you take on other
people and you're responsiblefor their responsibilities.
So at the beginning, if you'reconsidering running a business,
my God, just go head and heartfirst and get on with shit.
If I look back at the amount ofstuff we achieved in the first
two years of Matchstick, it'sstaggering.
I couldn't do it now.
(26:18):
I haven't got the energy for itbecause all my energy got taken
in those first five years ofthe business.
So I think as soon as you'vegot the energy, get on with it
and start doing it and get otherpeople energized by how much
you care about it.
So just throw everything at itif you're thinking about it and,
equally, stay as small as youcan for as long as you can would
(26:39):
be quite practical advice Ihave for right now, in the
current climate really do asmuch as you can with a very
small group of trusted peopleand, as much as you can, try not
to give yourself more work thanyou have to.
So which, simone, you'reterrible at.
So just as a note for everyonelistening, simone always does
too much.
So, yeah, like definitely giveyourself a manageable amount,
(27:03):
but just go at it like reallyreally throw yourself into it,
because if you're not at thatlevel of energy for your own
business, you'll never.
You'll never make it.
It's that clear to me, becauseif I didn't have that energy at
the beginning, we just wouldn'tbe where we are now, at a much
calmer stage.
But I needed all that energy atthe beginning to get to the
calm stage.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
And finally, I think I've said I'm finally three
times but it's okay.
The hobby in gear.
What was your highlight of thathobby in you?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
So definitely planning the wedding.
That's been absolutely amazing.
Shout out to the future.
Out.
But you mean the live event.
Yes, the live creativecollaboration I've done with my
future husband, Joseph Wilding.
Yeah, no, that's been reallynice to plan and we came up with
like branding for it andeverything was so weird.
So it's been such a fun thingto do.
So that's been incredible.
I think, also just like havingthe opportunity like over the
(27:50):
summer, for example, it becomesincredibly quiet at agencies so
we just said why don't we justdo a four-day week for the
summer?
That was a really smart move.
So we worked really quite hardfor those four days but we had
so much breathing room and wealso didn't have to take that
much holiday, which meant wecould still be available to
people.
So really building in likeroutines around rest and then
having a big thing to lookforward to that that was the
(28:12):
stuff that was really enjoyablelast year.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Ruth, thank you.
I wish you so so much love forthe wedding.
Thank you, sorry I can't bewith you oh, that's quite okay.
I'm gutted, but no, thank youso much um really looking
forward to seeing the outputs ofthe vision boards as well.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, high five to Greg, high five to all of our
female founders.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Thank you so much for joining us today on the we Are
Power podcast, thank you.
Thanks for having me Subscribeon YouTube, apple, amazon Music,
spotify or wherever you getyour podcasts.
Leave us a review or follow uson socials.
We are power underscore net onInsta, tiktok and Twitter.
We are power on LinkedIn,facebook and we are underscore
(28:54):
power on YouTube.
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