March 24, 2025 • 20 mins
In this episode of the We Are PoWEr Podcast, we sit down with Dr Penny Trayner, a neuropsychologist who has discovered a fascinating connection between DJing and brain recovery.
Penny shares how her work in neuropsychology led her to explore the impact of music on rehabilitation and why she believes that the only real barrier is what we tell ourselves. She also reflects on her childhood in Abu Dhabi, how her parents’ careers and support shaped her, and the drive to help people that guides her work today.
Beyond her groundbreaking research, Penny has also taken to the decks, DJing at the Northern PoWEr Women Awards—Europe’s largest celebration of gender equality—for two years in a row. She also discusses the significance of receiving a purple plaque in recognition of her award-winning innovation.
If you’re looking for inspiration, proof that music can heal, or a reminder that you can achieve anything, this episode is not to be missed.
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast.
If this is your first time here, the we Are Power podcast is
the podcast for you, your careerand your life.
We release an episode everysingle Monday with listeners in
over 60 countries worldwide,where you'll hear personal life
stories, top-notch industryadvice and key leadership
insight from amazing role models.
(00:21):
As we Are Power is the umbrellabrand to Northern Power Women
Awards, which celebrateshundreds of female role models
and advocates every year.
This is where you can hearstories from all of our awards
alumni and stay up to date witheverything MPW Awards and we Are
Power.
Today I am joined by the quitesimply awesome Dr Penny Traynor.
(00:53):
I'm taking a breath here.
Multi-award winning paediatric,clinical neuropsychologist,
clinical psychologist, academic,director of University of
Liverpool, fellow higher ofeducation academy expert witness
that just sounds like CSI.
Health tech entrepreneur, djand radio presenter.
What else?
Come on, there's got to be more.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I think that's it for today, Simone.
We'll, by the end of the day,maybe a bit more, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
It goes without saying that no two days will
ever be the same right.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Absolutely, absolutely and actually,
following a conversation withyou, I'm sure I'll have five
other things I'll be doing bythe end of this.
Well, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
You're also on our future list, shortlisted or
finalist in the 2023 awards andthe resident after show lounge
player at the 24 and 25 NorthernPower Women Awards with.
Obviously, they're lettingco-presenters as well don't they
?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
They are.
I had a little DJ helping meout today this week, so I had a
little back-to-back with Simone.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Well, do you know what it was after last year's
awards?
It was one of my very, very,very good friends, sonia's big
5-0 birthday, or shall I say4-0,.
Just I don't want her to be introuble and I came to you and I
knew that you did which we'llget into in a bit DJing as a
(02:08):
side hustle, but also asrehabilitation, which is
phenomenal.
Anyway, I bought my friendSonia DJ lessons which I had the
opportunity to go with, and soliterally two lessons in.
I'm going to perform at theAfter Show Lounge.
There are some brilliantpictures from last week.
It was phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
What I love this moment, though, that you put
yourself out there and had thatfeeling of what it's like to do
something new and fresh, and Iknow that's something you really
encourage all of us to do allof the time, and it was just
great for you to be embodyingthat and showing everyone how to
do it, because it takes quitesomething to get up at your
event, um, and get on thosedecks and DJ, and I was super
proud of of you and I know yourteam were.
So, yeah, we're looking forwardto a longer set next year, so
get it planned.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Do you know what I think?
One of the things about it isit's so mindful and is that why,
you know, I don't know how wequite navigate your career, miss
Penny, and where do we start?
I want to just talk about thatrehabilitation piece, because
that's where I first, I think,came to encounter you, was the
work that you have done aroundthat rehabilitation in your work
(03:10):
.
Tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah.
So I mean I'm aneuropsychologist, so I'm
trained as a clinicalpsychologist.
I then went on to do extratraining to work with people
with neurological conditions andyou know, it's fair to say,
it's been quite traditionalrehab.
So you know, we think of rehab.
Lots of people sort of thinkabout maybe a muscle injury or.
But actually the people I seehave had quite serious,
catastrophic injuries to theirbrains and it's a long, long
(03:32):
recovery and it's really hard tofind stuff to keep people
engaged and it's really hard tofind stuff that's interesting
but also targets some of thoseother things like your emotional
wellbeing and your sense ofconnectedness and doing
something purposeful andmeaningful.
And I learned to DJ as a bit ofa midlife well, not midlife,
obviously midlife-ish crisis,pre -pandemic.
(03:52):
That's how we're all doing it.
And I'm really really fortunatethat a lovely woman, a very
inspirational woman, called LisaLashes, who was a very famous
DJ I think she was the firstever DJ to be in the top 10 DJs
in the world so she ran a DJschool and I decided to come
along.
Thankfully, lisa took me underher wing.
Like you, I had no idea whatthis stuff was called, no idea
(04:14):
how it worked, but I could seeinstantly that this was a really
mindful, really therapeuticactivity.
I found so much pleasure in itand there was just so much to it
.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I thought actually we can utilize this and think
about how we can use this as atool to help people in their
journey of recovery do you knowthat mindful is really
interesting because myself andSonia, my the birthday girl uh,
when we went to the first lesson, I think that was Sonia's
output Sonia's comment was youknow, if you can keep both us
two probably quite hyperactiveand mischievous and chatty, and
(04:46):
so you kept us for two hoursfocused on what we needed to do,
and that was both of ourtakeaways.
Was that mindfulness?
That's wonderful, which wasjust so, you know?
Not quite, lisa Lashes.
So how was your journey?
We always talk about no one'sjourney or path is the same or
straight.
How did you?
(05:08):
Where did it start for you,penny?
Because you grew up as an expat.
I did.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, yeah.
So I grew up in Abu Dhabi inthe United Arab Emirates in the
80s, which is not.
It was very different to theplace you see today.
My dad was an engineer, so hewas a great sort of innovator
and travelled the world, youknow, installing communication
systems and helping the worldget moving.
So if you ever use your mobilephone in the Emirates that's
because of my dad.
(05:33):
So you know, I really had thatkind of sense of doing things
that are fantastic and doingthings that are great and doing
things to benefit humanity.
But it was quite a differentplace then.
The world's much more connectednow and when we kind of lived
out there in the 80s and 90s,there was a very small community
and you sort of were a Britishexpat and there was a British
club I think it's just calledthe club now, which is nice, but
(05:57):
you did have a real sense ofcommunity and you went to school
with people from everywhere,you know and all these kind of
barriers and things that seem tobe really present in the world
at the moment and lots of thingsthat people are talking about
in terms of differences insociety and communities.
We didn't have any of thosebecause we were just united by
being some like kids in a randomcountry that were just trying
to get on with being teenagersand getting on with our lives,
(06:18):
but in a country that was verynew.
You know, the Emirates onlybecame a country in the
seventies, so you know, by thetime we're in the eighties it
was very fresh and new and itjust gave you a real sense of a
different sort of belonging.
And so I sort of took thatforward in my life and I then
moved back to the UK.
That was a bit of a cultureshock, as you can imagine.
(06:41):
I moved to the Midlands, to avery small town in the Midlands,
went to boarding school for acouple of years and again that
was sort of really instrumentalin just shaping my views of the
world and about how connected weall are and actually how a lot
of my life is all aboutrelationships and understanding
people and understanding what,what, what makes us great
actually are the people aroundus and the strength of those
relationships and the supportthat we have.
And I guess I'm really luckythat because of those
(07:01):
experiences I have got friendsI've known.
You know, even though we livethousands of miles away, we all
still make the effort to meet upall over the world.
I went to Canada for someone'swedding last week.
My friend from Botswana iscoming to see me this week and
it's really great because youfeel that sense of connectivity,
but it is also a sense of a bitof a lonely place because we
(07:22):
never really felt like youfitted anywhere and it was only
a few years ago that Idiscovered there's a term for it
and I think a term thatprobably resonates with a lot of
people, even people withmilitary backgrounds.
I think, if you move around alot called third culture kids,
which are a group of kids andyoung people that grew up in
societies that are completelydifferent from their own culture
, and you sort of create anidentity and a culture in itself
(07:47):
and you feel quite unique anddifferent.
But actually it's lovely toknow there's lots of other
people out there like that and Ithink all the third culture
kids that I know have a realsense of adventure, a real sense
of you know doing things andmaking stuff happen, because I
guess that's what their parentsdid, that's what their families
did.
They went out and did thingsthat were extraordinary, that
other people had never done, andso took that into my career and
(08:09):
, you know, became a clinicalpsychologist, which in itself is
super tough and there'sprobably people listening on
this podcast that might want todo that and it is really tough.
The competition is fierce andit takes a lot to get going, but
I've had a lot of support withthat as well.
Went on to do neuropsychology,went on to become an innovator
because I wanted to make thosechanges but along the way kind
(08:31):
of really reflected on this ideaof supporting each other and
competitiveness and what that'sall about for us, and
particularly as women.
I think we are often pittedagainst each other, whether it's
the way we look, where we dress, whether you've got the right
this, the right that, um, youknow, it feels like there's a
real kind of sense ofcompetitiveness all along the
way, and being a third culturekid, I think, has taken that
(08:52):
away from me a little bit.
I think actually there's asense of trying to build a
community and support each otherand lift each other up.
So, yeah, so a bit of aroundabout rambling way, but you
know, I guess I'm reallyinterested in people and I love
people and I love helping peopleand supporting people.
I know that sounds probably abit corny and a bit cheesy, but
genuinely that is the missionreally.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And it's human, connected.
So when you say your dadcreated our in Abu Dhabi and if
you speak on a mobile phonethere, it would be part of his
connectivity, but it's thathuman connectivity that you've
taken and put into action right.
Yeah, absolutely, you know.
Some people call it networking,some people will call it some
mentoring along the way orfriendships, but it's a bit of
(09:32):
everything, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Absolutely.
Our similarities are the thingsthat actually unite us, and I
think there's more similaritiesbetween us than there are
differences.
But I think that thedifferences are often amplified
and you're made to feel thatactually you're the only person
or that you somehow have tocompete against other people to
get where you're going.
But actually I love that quoteabout there's room for everyone
at the finish line, and I alwaystry and say that to everyone.
(09:55):
There really is, and you'llfind your place.
And sometimes it's like thetortoise and the hare Some of us
will get there really quickly,some of us will slow and steady
get there, but the tortoisestill won the race at the end
and it's just about us beingconnected.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
And you talk about that.
You know everyone being at thefinish line.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I want to finish line .
I'm going to talk about theawards because it was only.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
You know, he's in our , literally in our, rearview
mirror, uh, from our, from ourdj jet decks we may have
mentioned, like I was a guest,the team have put a post out.
It's lovely, simone, nowavailable for I love it, loving
it.
You're now my agent, penny,just put it out there this
summer, let's do it althoughsaying that you're hooking up
with my mom, I believe forchampagne absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, mom's table.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
New favorite thanks, you're hooking up with my mum, I
believe, for champagne.
I've heard Absolutely.
So, yeah, mum's table newfavourite.
Thanks, mum, you're out, I'm in.
But that sense of winning it'snot a winning, is it?
It's like everyone in the roomand I'm chatting to people and
I'm watching the love onLinkedIn and Instagram and
actually phone calls, old schoolemails, of just that.
Thank you, because actually,just being in that room, I
(10:58):
remember seeing a post last yearvery much around that vibe you
know, had the best time ever,not winning anything.
You know there's more to itthan that and you've been a
finalist before.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I've been a finalist and on the day actually of the
awards I by chance had spoken tosomeone else who was a finalist
this year and what was really?
We came together again viaanother event actually that
you'd hosted when we were DJingon the roof of one of the former
sponsors buildings last year.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, absolutely Sorry.
We get everywhere.
We do, we really do this is thething about Simone.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
You will find yourself in all sorts of random
places, but they'll be greatplaces.
I've got to get on one of thoseships that's on my mission for
next year.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So yeah, warship visit definitely Okay, we're on
it.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
So we'll make that one happen.
But, um, yeah, so I'd metsomeone at that event and then
she'd introduced me to someoneelse and etc.
And by chance, we had a callearlier that day and she was
like, oh I'm, I'm in a, I'm afinalist tonight.
And she said to me and I hearthis so many times about the
awards I already feel like I'vewon, because I feel like just
being acknowledged and just thefact that someone nominated me
and took the time to to thinkabout me and actually, um,
acknowledges what I do and howI'm trying to make a difference
(12:02):
and makes me feel like I'm awinner already.
And I just thought that wasjust beautiful.
And I think you hear that timeand time again from everyone
there and it just gets biggerand bigger and, um, and I love
the thoughtfulness that you'vegiven to the categories because
the world has changed in nineyears, ten years, ten years, um,
there's jobs that people havenow that didn't even exist 10
years ago, and in another 10years there'll be more jobs, and
(12:22):
so you know, we Are Power, hasmoved with the times with that
and acknowledged the changes andbrought more people in and
spotlighted some of the changethat's happening and how
positive it can be, and I justabsolutely love it.
I'm delighted to be a part of it.
So, and you can't get rid of menow.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Well, you know, we're not for Christmas.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I know where your mum is.
Yeah, exactly you know where mymum is.
I'll see you at Christmasdinner.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Oh, wouldn't that be fun.
Yeah, I'm in.
Get me mum on the DJs.
Your family believes there's no, should be no self-imposed
barriers, and one of your neverdelegate work you aren't
(13:05):
prepared to do yourself or don'tfully understand that takes me
back for the awards, putting uppop-ups, for creating awards
boxes.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
But you know what you do, don't you?
Because it's part of the front.
You lead from the front and,well, you lead from the front,
but actually some of us don't.
Some of us are those likegentle herders and shepherders
that was kind of at the back,just gently coaching everyone
along.
But you're absolutely rightthat you know it value of mine,
and you know, thank you to mydad for showing me that.
And I do remember, you know,years ago, him climbing up these
towers in the middle of thedesert to go and check on
something at the top, because hewas the only one that could.
And I remember looking at that,thinking that's what it's all
(13:28):
about, really, isn't it?
So take everyone with you andif you get that belief behind,
just gives you a sense ofstrength and courage and
empowerment wherever you are in,whatever situation you find
yourself in.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
And do you have a quotation or a set of words that
you live by?
Oh gosh, that's a difficult one.
Yeah, I know, phone a friend.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
No, I actually have gone completely blank on that
one.
But you know, like I say, I ama really big believer in, like,
you can do anything and the onlylimitations and barriers are
within your own mind.
But actually, if you look on myLinkedIn post at the moment,
there's a quote that I've put asmy banner.
I've decided to start changingto use real world quotes and
it's a quote actually from aprison that during the apartheid
(14:16):
in South Africa, someone hadwritten this on the wall and I
thought, even in that mosthopeless situation, someone had
written something so positiveand it says when life kicks you,
let it kick you forwards.
And it just even really, reallyresonates with me and I sort of
wanted to put it up there justto say, actually, you can do
this, whatever happens.
Just let it nudge you a littlebit further forwards.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
And you talked about sort of growing up in Abu Dhabi,
then coming back to theMidlands in a boarding school,
kind of reintegrating into a newcommunity that maybe wasn't as
safe actually, because youdidn't have that shared, you
know, the third culture, kids,yeah.
How did you sort of get throughsome of that?
How did you kind of evolve intothe new, you know, not just
(14:58):
area, but the new world, becauseit's not quite closeted but
it's definitely sort of it wasdefinitely a different world?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I mean, you know, we got back and we were like gosh,
yeah, just some of the thingsyou took for granted, like that
people go out on theirspeedboats at the weekend is
quite normal when you're out inthe Middle East, but actually
it's quite an affluent thinghere and you had to kind of
rebalance yourself and readdressyourself.
I was very lucky, though, that,because I was in boarding school
, there was lots of other youngpeople there whose parents were
in the army, whose parents werein the Navy, who had travelled a
(15:28):
lot.
So again, we're still allfriends and still united by
understandings.
But it was tough, and I think Ireally found my home when I got
to university, because once Igot to Liverpool didn't started
working and started living andworking in Liverpool, I realised
actually what a multiculturalplace the north is and everyone
sort of embraces you with openarms.
It was just absolutelywonderful.
(15:48):
So I've been, you know, livingup here for 20 years now and I
don't think I'm going to begoing anywhere anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And did you think, when you were back in Abu Dhabi,
inventing, creating networking,building friendships that you
would ever have a blue plaque?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Gosh, yeah, I mean, that was quite something.
That's a wow moment.
Dr Penny Traney, tell us aboutthat.
Thank you, so those are plaquesthat are given out.
They're purple plaques actually.
Oh yeah, sorry, I should saythey purple for to acknowledge
the colour of Innovate UK.
Yes, of course.
Who award those colours, thoseplaques, to women who have won a
Women in Innovation Award,which they are very, very
(16:23):
competitive.
I was one of 50 winners acouple of years ago and was very
, very heavily pregnant fillingout this application form,
feeling very unwell and notwanting to tell anyone that I
was pregnant because I thoughtit might bias or hinder me
getting the award.
Although you know I sit here andthink I'm very liberated, et
cetera.
We all still have some of thosebarriers in our minds and some
of those things that we have toovercome.
(16:44):
But yeah, my plaqueacknowledging my innovation,
which was something I developedfor to help us in rehab, to help
speed things up productivitysoftware that I invented called
Compass, formerly Goal Manager.
I've got a plaque on mybuilding that I work in and it's
the Eleanor Rathbone building,and Eleanor Rathbone was a
suffragette who invented childbenefit here in the UK.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
So pretty good pedigree to be associated with,
really, yeah.
And you just talked about yourlittle Enola, who I met last
week, who has a Northern PowerWomen, baby, girl, girl, but
will well have grown out of itby now.
But, uh, what do you hope forhair?
What do you hope the world willbe like?
Because we've talked about youknow, we've had many of whatsapp
(17:28):
message go what we're going todo about this?
What can we do?
How can we drive this?
What we're going to do?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
yeah, well, you know my big passion is we need to now
be working on the NorthernPower Girls.
So I think and actually againnetworking at the awards, sort
of in the middle of mixing I hada chat with I think his name
was Vinny who was running amassive event the following day
for 300 school girls who werecoming for a networking event
run by lots of top companies,and what I loved is he was like
they're all like like youngerkids 11 to 13, I think, which I
(17:54):
think is the age need to get inthere and start inspiring people
.
But you know, I just reallyhope that she lives her life
like me, that she doesn't.
I never realised that therewere any limitations to what I
could achieve until I startedcoming up across those, because
growing up there weren'tlimitations in our household it
was.
You can be whoever you want tobe, and it is kind of sad when
(18:20):
you know that shine gets rubbedoff a little bit as you kind of
face the reality of the world.
But I think the world ischanging and I just like to
think that she can be absolutelywhoever she wants to be without
thinking, giving it a moment'sthought about.
This might be something I can'tdo because I'm a woman, because
that is not the case and thatreally is my message to anyone
out there really, like it's notthe case, you can do, you can do
these things.
Get some support around you andget that mentor and get your
squad, get your, get your armybehind you, um, and you know
they'll lift you up and take younorthern power girls, watch
(18:42):
this space.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Finally, what's next for you, gosh?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
what a bit of rest on dj tour.
Yeah, you mentioned that, no,okay yeah, so we've got a few
things coming up this year.
So, um, you know, doing a lotof work with the university,
we're sort of redeveloping ourprogram.
I'm trying to design a clinicalpsychology program for the
future, so I'm the academicdirector on that program.
So we're doing a huge amount ofwork to make sure that we're
(19:05):
updating it and it's fresh andthat we can meet the needs of
the population.
Um, but personally I'm lookingforward to just a bit of a year
of mooching about going to somemusic festivals.
Haven't managed to getGlastonbury tickets this year,
but maybe there's still theresale.
Everything comes to sheerweights, but I did buy myself
some tickets for Basement Jack,so I'm looking forward to that,
you're living it.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Maybe they'll get you up on stage, penny, maybe
that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Maybe, but a little plug really that every year that
we run an accessible festival,so it was the UK's designed to
be totally accessible.
It's up in Bury, so it's alocal.
It's in July.
We have a DJ tent, so I nowhave a DJ school, as you
mentioned.
Some of the DJs there run atent, there are stages, we get
people coming from all over andit's absolutely fantastic, and
(19:47):
so that's my biggest focus atthe moment is helping make that
as big and as good as it can be.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
So yeah, please do, come on down.
Absolutely amazing PennyTrainer.
Never stops, never stopsspinning those decks, never
stops being a kind human,passionate about paying it
forward and just keeping thatcommunity well.
Penny, dr Penny, purple Plaqueowner, penny lots of other
initials, penny Thank you somuch for joining me and cannot
wait for our adventures thisyear.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Me too.
Simone, thank you always forincluding me and taking me along
on these crazy missions.
I'm loving the ride, so more tocome.
See you at Christmas dinner.
See you at Christmas dinner.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
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We are Power underscore net onInsta, tiktok and Twitter.
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Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast.
If this is your first time here, the we Are Power podcast is
the podcast for you, your careerand your life.
We release an episode everysingle Monday with listeners in
over 60 countries worldwide,where you'll hear personal life
stories, top-notch industryadvice and key leadership
insight from amazing role models.
(00:21):
As we Are Power is the umbrellabrand to Northern Power Women
Awards, which celebrateshundreds of female role models
and advocates every year.
This is where you can hearstories from all of our awards
alumni and stay up to date witheverything MPW Awards and we Are
Power.
Today I am joined by the quitesimply awesome Dr Penny Traynor.
(00:53):
I'm taking a breath here.
Multi-award winning paediatric,clinical neuropsychologist,
clinical psychologist, academic,director of University of
Liverpool, fellow higher ofeducation academy expert witness
that just sounds like CSI.
Health tech entrepreneur, djand radio presenter.
What else?
Come on, there's got to be more.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I think that's it for today, Simone.
We'll, by the end of the day,maybe a bit more, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
It goes without saying that no two days will
ever be the same right.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Absolutely, absolutely and actually,
following a conversation withyou, I'm sure I'll have five
other things I'll be doing bythe end of this.
Well, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
You're also on our future list, shortlisted or
finalist in the 2023 awards andthe resident after show lounge
player at the 24 and 25 NorthernPower Women Awards with.
Obviously, they're lettingco-presenters as well don't they
?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
They are.
I had a little DJ helping meout today this week, so I had a
little back-to-back with Simone.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Well, do you know what it was after last year's
awards?
It was one of my very, very,very good friends, sonia's big
5-0 birthday, or shall I say4-0,.
Just I don't want her to be introuble and I came to you and I
knew that you did which we'llget into in a bit DJing as a
(02:08):
side hustle, but also asrehabilitation, which is
phenomenal.
Anyway, I bought my friendSonia DJ lessons which I had the
opportunity to go with, and soliterally two lessons in.
I'm going to perform at theAfter Show Lounge.
There are some brilliantpictures from last week.
It was phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
What I love this moment, though, that you put
yourself out there and had thatfeeling of what it's like to do
something new and fresh, and Iknow that's something you really
encourage all of us to do allof the time, and it was just
great for you to be embodyingthat and showing everyone how to
do it, because it takes quitesomething to get up at your
event, um, and get on thosedecks and DJ, and I was super
proud of of you and I know yourteam were.
So, yeah, we're looking forwardto a longer set next year, so
get it planned.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Do you know what I think?
One of the things about it isit's so mindful and is that why,
you know, I don't know how wequite navigate your career, miss
Penny, and where do we start?
I want to just talk about thatrehabilitation piece, because
that's where I first, I think,came to encounter you, was the
work that you have done aroundthat rehabilitation in your work
(03:10):
.
Tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Yeah.
So I mean I'm aneuropsychologist, so I'm
trained as a clinicalpsychologist.
I then went on to do extratraining to work with people
with neurological conditions andyou know, it's fair to say,
it's been quite traditionalrehab.
So you know, we think of rehab.
Lots of people sort of thinkabout maybe a muscle injury or.
But actually the people I seehave had quite serious,
catastrophic injuries to theirbrains and it's a long, long
(03:32):
recovery and it's really hard tofind stuff to keep people
engaged and it's really hard tofind stuff that's interesting
but also targets some of thoseother things like your emotional
wellbeing and your sense ofconnectedness and doing
something purposeful andmeaningful.
And I learned to DJ as a bit ofa midlife well, not midlife,
obviously midlife-ish crisis,pre -pandemic.
(03:52):
That's how we're all doing it.
And I'm really really fortunatethat a lovely woman, a very
inspirational woman, called LisaLashes, who was a very famous
DJ I think she was the firstever DJ to be in the top 10 DJs
in the world so she ran a DJschool and I decided to come
along.
Thankfully, lisa took me underher wing.
Like you, I had no idea whatthis stuff was called, no idea
(04:14):
how it worked, but I could seeinstantly that this was a really
mindful, really therapeuticactivity.
I found so much pleasure in itand there was just so much to it
.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I thought actually we can utilize this and think
about how we can use this as atool to help people in their
journey of recovery do you knowthat mindful is really
interesting because myself andSonia, my the birthday girl uh,
when we went to the first lesson, I think that was Sonia's
output Sonia's comment was youknow, if you can keep both us
two probably quite hyperactiveand mischievous and chatty, and
(04:46):
so you kept us for two hoursfocused on what we needed to do,
and that was both of ourtakeaways.
Was that mindfulness?
That's wonderful, which wasjust so, you know?
Not quite, lisa Lashes.
So how was your journey?
We always talk about no one'sjourney or path is the same or
straight.
How did you?
(05:08):
Where did it start for you,penny?
Because you grew up as an expat.
I did.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, yeah.
So I grew up in Abu Dhabi inthe United Arab Emirates in the
80s, which is not.
It was very different to theplace you see today.
My dad was an engineer, so hewas a great sort of innovator
and travelled the world, youknow, installing communication
systems and helping the worldget moving.
So if you ever use your mobilephone in the Emirates that's
because of my dad.
(05:33):
So you know, I really had thatkind of sense of doing things
that are fantastic and doingthings that are great and doing
things to benefit humanity.
But it was quite a differentplace then.
The world's much more connectednow and when we kind of lived
out there in the 80s and 90s,there was a very small community
and you sort of were a Britishexpat and there was a British
club I think it's just calledthe club now, which is nice, but
(05:57):
you did have a real sense ofcommunity and you went to school
with people from everywhere,you know and all these kind of
barriers and things that seem tobe really present in the world
at the moment and lots of thingsthat people are talking about
in terms of differences insociety and communities.
We didn't have any of thosebecause we were just united by
being some like kids in a randomcountry that were just trying
to get on with being teenagersand getting on with our lives,
(06:18):
but in a country that was verynew.
You know, the Emirates onlybecame a country in the
seventies, so you know, by thetime we're in the eighties it
was very fresh and new and itjust gave you a real sense of a
different sort of belonging.
And so I sort of took thatforward in my life and I then
moved back to the UK.
That was a bit of a cultureshock, as you can imagine.
(06:41):
I moved to the Midlands, to avery small town in the Midlands,
went to boarding school for acouple of years and again that
was sort of really instrumentalin just shaping my views of the
world and about how connected weall are and actually how a lot
of my life is all aboutrelationships and understanding
people and understanding what,what, what makes us great
actually are the people aroundus and the strength of those
relationships and the supportthat we have.
And I guess I'm really luckythat because of those
(07:01):
experiences I have got friendsI've known.
You know, even though we livethousands of miles away, we all
still make the effort to meet upall over the world.
I went to Canada for someone'swedding last week.
My friend from Botswana iscoming to see me this week and
it's really great because youfeel that sense of connectivity,
but it is also a sense of a bitof a lonely place because we
(07:22):
never really felt like youfitted anywhere and it was only
a few years ago that Idiscovered there's a term for it
and I think a term thatprobably resonates with a lot of
people, even people withmilitary backgrounds.
I think, if you move around alot called third culture kids,
which are a group of kids andyoung people that grew up in
societies that are completelydifferent from their own culture
, and you sort of create anidentity and a culture in itself
(07:47):
and you feel quite unique anddifferent.
But actually it's lovely toknow there's lots of other
people out there like that and Ithink all the third culture
kids that I know have a realsense of adventure, a real sense
of you know doing things andmaking stuff happen, because I
guess that's what their parentsdid, that's what their families
did.
They went out and did thingsthat were extraordinary, that
other people had never done, andso took that into my career and
(08:09):
, you know, became a clinicalpsychologist, which in itself is
super tough and there'sprobably people listening on
this podcast that might want todo that and it is really tough.
The competition is fierce andit takes a lot to get going, but
I've had a lot of support withthat as well.
Went on to do neuropsychology,went on to become an innovator
because I wanted to make thosechanges but along the way kind
(08:31):
of really reflected on this ideaof supporting each other and
competitiveness and what that'sall about for us, and
particularly as women.
I think we are often pittedagainst each other, whether it's
the way we look, where we dress, whether you've got the right
this, the right that, um, youknow, it feels like there's a
real kind of sense ofcompetitiveness all along the
way, and being a third culturekid, I think, has taken that
(08:52):
away from me a little bit.
I think actually there's asense of trying to build a
community and support each otherand lift each other up.
So, yeah, so a bit of aroundabout rambling way, but you
know, I guess I'm reallyinterested in people and I love
people and I love helping peopleand supporting people.
I know that sounds probably abit corny and a bit cheesy, but
genuinely that is the missionreally.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And it's human, connected.
So when you say your dadcreated our in Abu Dhabi and if
you speak on a mobile phonethere, it would be part of his
connectivity, but it's thathuman connectivity that you've
taken and put into action right.
Yeah, absolutely, you know.
Some people call it networking,some people will call it some
mentoring along the way orfriendships, but it's a bit of
(09:32):
everything, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Absolutely.
Our similarities are the thingsthat actually unite us, and I
think there's more similaritiesbetween us than there are
differences.
But I think that thedifferences are often amplified
and you're made to feel thatactually you're the only person
or that you somehow have tocompete against other people to
get where you're going.
But actually I love that quoteabout there's room for everyone
at the finish line, and I alwaystry and say that to everyone.
(09:55):
There really is, and you'llfind your place.
And sometimes it's like thetortoise and the hare Some of us
will get there really quickly,some of us will slow and steady
get there, but the tortoisestill won the race at the end
and it's just about us beingconnected.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
And you talk about that.
You know everyone being at thefinish line.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I want to finish line .
I'm going to talk about theawards because it was only.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
You know, he's in our , literally in our, rearview
mirror, uh, from our, from ourdj jet decks we may have
mentioned, like I was a guest,the team have put a post out.
It's lovely, simone, nowavailable for I love it, loving
it.
You're now my agent, penny,just put it out there this
summer, let's do it althoughsaying that you're hooking up
with my mom, I believe forchampagne absolutely so.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, mom's table.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
New favorite thanks, you're hooking up with my mum, I
believe, for champagne.
I've heard Absolutely.
So, yeah, mum's table newfavourite.
Thanks, mum, you're out, I'm in.
But that sense of winning it'snot a winning, is it?
It's like everyone in the roomand I'm chatting to people and
I'm watching the love onLinkedIn and Instagram and
actually phone calls, old schoolemails, of just that.
Thank you, because actually,just being in that room, I
(10:58):
remember seeing a post last yearvery much around that vibe you
know, had the best time ever,not winning anything.
You know there's more to itthan that and you've been a
finalist before.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I've been a finalist and on the day actually of the
awards I by chance had spoken tosomeone else who was a finalist
this year and what was really?
We came together again viaanother event actually that
you'd hosted when we were DJingon the roof of one of the former
sponsors buildings last year.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Yeah, absolutely Sorry.
We get everywhere.
We do, we really do this is thething about Simone.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
You will find yourself in all sorts of random
places, but they'll be greatplaces.
I've got to get on one of thoseships that's on my mission for
next year.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So yeah, warship visit definitely Okay, we're on
it.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
So we'll make that one happen.
But, um, yeah, so I'd metsomeone at that event and then
she'd introduced me to someoneelse and etc.
And by chance, we had a callearlier that day and she was
like, oh I'm, I'm in a, I'm afinalist tonight.
And she said to me and I hearthis so many times about the
awards I already feel like I'vewon, because I feel like just
being acknowledged and just thefact that someone nominated me
and took the time to to thinkabout me and actually, um,
acknowledges what I do and howI'm trying to make a difference
(12:02):
and makes me feel like I'm awinner already.
And I just thought that wasjust beautiful.
And I think you hear that timeand time again from everyone
there and it just gets biggerand bigger and, um, and I love
the thoughtfulness that you'vegiven to the categories because
the world has changed in nineyears, ten years, ten years, um,
there's jobs that people havenow that didn't even exist 10
years ago, and in another 10years there'll be more jobs, and
(12:22):
so you know, we Are Power, hasmoved with the times with that
and acknowledged the changes andbrought more people in and
spotlighted some of the changethat's happening and how
positive it can be, and I justabsolutely love it.
I'm delighted to be a part of it.
So, and you can't get rid of menow.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Well, you know, we're not for Christmas.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I know where your mum is.
Yeah, exactly you know where mymum is.
I'll see you at Christmasdinner.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Oh, wouldn't that be fun.
Yeah, I'm in.
Get me mum on the DJs.
Your family believes there's no, should be no self-imposed
barriers, and one of your neverdelegate work you aren't
(13:05):
prepared to do yourself or don'tfully understand that takes me
back for the awards, putting uppop-ups, for creating awards
boxes.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
But you know what you do, don't you?
Because it's part of the front.
You lead from the front and,well, you lead from the front,
but actually some of us don't.
Some of us are those likegentle herders and shepherders
that was kind of at the back,just gently coaching everyone
along.
But you're absolutely rightthat you know it value of mine,
and you know, thank you to mydad for showing me that.
And I do remember, you know,years ago, him climbing up these
towers in the middle of thedesert to go and check on
something at the top, because hewas the only one that could.
And I remember looking at that,thinking that's what it's all
(13:28):
about, really, isn't it?
So take everyone with you andif you get that belief behind,
just gives you a sense ofstrength and courage and
empowerment wherever you are in,whatever situation you find
yourself in.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
And do you have a quotation or a set of words that
you live by?
Oh gosh, that's a difficult one.
Yeah, I know, phone a friend.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
No, I actually have gone completely blank on that
one.
But you know, like I say, I ama really big believer in, like,
you can do anything and the onlylimitations and barriers are
within your own mind.
But actually, if you look on myLinkedIn post at the moment,
there's a quote that I've put asmy banner.
I've decided to start changingto use real world quotes and
it's a quote actually from aprison that during the apartheid
(14:16):
in South Africa, someone hadwritten this on the wall and I
thought, even in that mosthopeless situation, someone had
written something so positiveand it says when life kicks you,
let it kick you forwards.
And it just even really, reallyresonates with me and I sort of
wanted to put it up there justto say, actually, you can do
this, whatever happens.
Just let it nudge you a littlebit further forwards.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
And you talked about sort of growing up in Abu Dhabi,
then coming back to theMidlands in a boarding school,
kind of reintegrating into a newcommunity that maybe wasn't as
safe actually, because youdidn't have that shared, you
know, the third culture, kids,yeah.
How did you sort of get throughsome of that?
How did you kind of evolve intothe new, you know, not just
(14:58):
area, but the new world, becauseit's not quite closeted but
it's definitely sort of it wasdefinitely a different world?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I mean, you know, we got back and we were like gosh,
yeah, just some of the thingsyou took for granted, like that
people go out on theirspeedboats at the weekend is
quite normal when you're out inthe Middle East, but actually
it's quite an affluent thinghere and you had to kind of
rebalance yourself and readdressyourself.
I was very lucky, though, that,because I was in boarding school
, there was lots of other youngpeople there whose parents were
in the army, whose parents werein the Navy, who had travelled a
(15:28):
lot.
So again, we're still allfriends and still united by
understandings.
But it was tough, and I think Ireally found my home when I got
to university, because once Igot to Liverpool didn't started
working and started living andworking in Liverpool, I realised
actually what a multiculturalplace the north is and everyone
sort of embraces you with openarms.
It was just absolutelywonderful.
(15:48):
So I've been, you know, livingup here for 20 years now and I
don't think I'm going to begoing anywhere anytime soon.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
And did you think, when you were back in Abu Dhabi,
inventing, creating networking,building friendships that you
would ever have a blue plaque?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Gosh, yeah, I mean, that was quite something.
That's a wow moment.
Dr Penny Traney, tell us aboutthat.
Thank you, so those are plaquesthat are given out.
They're purple plaques actually.
Oh yeah, sorry, I should saythey purple for to acknowledge
the colour of Innovate UK.
Yes, of course.
Who award those colours, thoseplaques, to women who have won a
Women in Innovation Award,which they are very, very
(16:23):
competitive.
I was one of 50 winners acouple of years ago and was very
, very heavily pregnant fillingout this application form,
feeling very unwell and notwanting to tell anyone that I
was pregnant because I thoughtit might bias or hinder me
getting the award.
Although you know I sit here andthink I'm very liberated, et
cetera.
We all still have some of thosebarriers in our minds and some
of those things that we have toovercome.
(16:44):
But yeah, my plaqueacknowledging my innovation,
which was something I developedfor to help us in rehab, to help
speed things up productivitysoftware that I invented called
Compass, formerly Goal Manager.
I've got a plaque on mybuilding that I work in and it's
the Eleanor Rathbone building,and Eleanor Rathbone was a
suffragette who invented childbenefit here in the UK.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
So pretty good pedigree to be associated with,
really, yeah.
And you just talked about yourlittle Enola, who I met last
week, who has a Northern PowerWomen, baby, girl, girl, but
will well have grown out of itby now.
But, uh, what do you hope forhair?
What do you hope the world willbe like?
Because we've talked about youknow, we've had many of whatsapp
(17:28):
message go what we're going todo about this?
What can we do?
How can we drive this?
What we're going to do?
Speaker 2 (17:33):
yeah, well, you know my big passion is we need to now
be working on the NorthernPower Girls.
So I think and actually againnetworking at the awards, sort
of in the middle of mixing I hada chat with I think his name
was Vinny who was running amassive event the following day
for 300 school girls who werecoming for a networking event
run by lots of top companies,and what I loved is he was like
they're all like like youngerkids 11 to 13, I think, which I
(17:54):
think is the age need to get inthere and start inspiring people
.
But you know, I just reallyhope that she lives her life
like me, that she doesn't.
I never realised that therewere any limitations to what I
could achieve until I startedcoming up across those, because
growing up there weren'tlimitations in our household it
was.
You can be whoever you want tobe, and it is kind of sad when
(18:20):
you know that shine gets rubbedoff a little bit as you kind of
face the reality of the world.
But I think the world ischanging and I just like to
think that she can be absolutelywhoever she wants to be without
thinking, giving it a moment'sthought about.
This might be something I can'tdo because I'm a woman, because
that is not the case and thatreally is my message to anyone
out there really, like it's notthe case, you can do, you can do
these things.
Get some support around you andget that mentor and get your
squad, get your, get your armybehind you, um, and you know
they'll lift you up and take younorthern power girls, watch
(18:42):
this space.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Finally, what's next for you, gosh?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
what a bit of rest on dj tour.
Yeah, you mentioned that, no,okay yeah, so we've got a few
things coming up this year.
So, um, you know, doing a lotof work with the university,
we're sort of redeveloping ourprogram.
I'm trying to design a clinicalpsychology program for the
future, so I'm the academicdirector on that program.
So we're doing a huge amount ofwork to make sure that we're
(19:05):
updating it and it's fresh andthat we can meet the needs of
the population.
Um, but personally I'm lookingforward to just a bit of a year
of mooching about going to somemusic festivals.
Haven't managed to getGlastonbury tickets this year,
but maybe there's still theresale.
Everything comes to sheerweights, but I did buy myself
some tickets for Basement Jack,so I'm looking forward to that,
you're living it.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Maybe they'll get you up on stage, penny, maybe
that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Maybe, but a little plug really that every year that
we run an accessible festival,so it was the UK's designed to
be totally accessible.
It's up in Bury, so it's alocal.
It's in July.
We have a DJ tent, so I nowhave a DJ school, as you
mentioned.
Some of the DJs there run atent, there are stages, we get
people coming from all over andit's absolutely fantastic, and
(19:47):
so that's my biggest focus atthe moment is helping make that
as big and as good as it can be.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
So yeah, please do, come on down.
Absolutely amazing PennyTrainer.
Never stops, never stopsspinning those decks, never
stops being a kind human,passionate about paying it
forward and just keeping thatcommunity well.
Penny, dr Penny, purple Plaqueowner, penny lots of other
initials, penny Thank you somuch for joining me and cannot
wait for our adventures thisyear.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Me too.
Simone, thank you always forincluding me and taking me along
on these crazy missions.
I'm loving the ride, so more tocome.
See you at Christmas dinner.
See you at Christmas dinner.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
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