October 13, 2025 • 24 mins
The brilliant Emma Green joins the We Are PoWEr Podcast – bringing creativity, courage, and a passion for storytelling that’s transforming communities across the North and beyond. As Communications Lead for Peel Waters, Emma combines her love of connection and communication to shape places where people truly belong.
From a film studies degree to leading communications for one of the UK’s most ambitious regeneration projects, Emma’s story proves that career paths don’t have to be linear to be impactful. What started as a fascination with Media City evolved into working for the very organization that created it – a full-circle moment powered by curiosity, authenticity, and the willingness to raise her hand and challenge convention.
With genuine warmth and insight, Emma shares how she’s turned her superpower for connection into tangible impact – from linking local independents with major waterfront developments to turning complex planning projects into national stories. Her mantra, inspired by her late aunt – “There’s value in every experience” – shapes both her career and her approach to life, reminding us that every moment has purpose.
Emma also opens up about the importance of community, crediting the Northern PoWEr Women network for providing support and opportunity during challenging times like the pandemic. Her story is proof that powerful storytelling, when rooted in authenticity and connection, can reshape not just brands or places, but people’s lives.
In this episode:
- From film studies to regeneration: finding purpose through storytelling
- How curiosity and connection created a career she never planned
- Communicating complex projects in ways that engage and inspire
- The power of challenging authority and speaking truth to power
- Why there’s “value in every experience” – personally and professionally
- How authentic communication builds thriving communities
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast.
If this is your first time here, the we Are Power podcast is
the podcast for you, your careerand your life.
We release an episode everysingle Monday with listeners in
over 60 countries worldwide,where you'll hear personal life
stories, top-notch industryadvice and key leadership
insight from amazing role models.
(00:21):
As we Are Power is the umbrellabrand to Northern Power Women
Awards, which celebrateshundreds of female role models
and advocates every year.
This is where you can hearstories from all of our awards
alumni and stay up to date witheverything MPW Awards and we Are
Power.
Well, welcome to the we ArePower podcast.
(00:41):
We've already been Neverimitated, never replicated.
Singularly wonderful,everybody's wonder girl.
Well, welcome to the we ArePower podcast.
We've already been having funbehind the scenes before we've
even started, haven't we?
My lovely, fantastic guest,emma Green, welcome to the
podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
How are you?
I'm so good and all the betterfor seeing you obviously.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
It's been such a long time.
How would you explain yourselfin three words?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Whirlwind, enthusiastic and probably
passionate.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, now tell me what's your day job.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So day to day I lead on communications for Peel
Waters.
Peel Waters is part of the Peelgroup but our business
specialises in watersideregeneration across the country.
So I get all the stories andthe amazing kind of things all
the guys are doing at work, butI have to put them across in a
way people understand.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
So how did you go from?
Because, because you studied,was it film studies?
Yep, how did you go from filmstudies to Regeneration, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So it's interesting because the thing I loved the
most and why I chose filmstudies was because it's all
about kind of telling people'sstories and that's what kind of
communications is.
But the reason I chose thecourse at John Moores at the
time was because of all theirlinks with Media City.
John Moores at the time wasbecause of all their links with
Media City.
So when I was choosing kind ofwhat course to do, I thought,
well, I'm going to go for theuniversity which got all these
times with Media City, becausethis is the place where if you
(02:11):
want to work in media productionsomething creative you go to
Media City and it was brand newand it's just being built.
What I didn't realize was I'veended up working for the people
who had the vision and developedMedia City.
So it's kind of gone fullcircle.
But from that originaluniversity course I ended up
doing an apprenticeship and thenthe apprenticeship led again to
Media City and doing events inMedia City and it was my line
(02:33):
manager at the time who he sawthe job going at Peel Media said
I think I found your dream joband then it's gone on from then.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
And not only that, you actually now live in Media
City.
Don't you Up on the 450th flooror something ridiculous?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I do.
I've moved back.
I think it's because I'm from aWirral originally, so I still
have to have something to dowith water.
It's still having a bit of anescape.
So being by the Quays, it's themost phenomenal view and you
can see everything out there.
You can see the Trafford Centre, you can see all the stuff
that's going on at Trafford City, like coming out the ground and
being built.
You can see across toManchester Airport and you've
(03:08):
got still the amazing water andwe overlook Coronation Street as
well.
So just having a little sneakpeek and seeing what's going on
there, but it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Cobbles countryside and I'm trying to find something
nautical beginning with a, c,but it's okay, we can, we can,
we can help.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, not quite, but it's close enough.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
There we go.
It's all good, but you know,someone tapped you on the
shoulder and said I've got yourdream job here.
Did you know what your dreamjob was?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I knew it was going to be something linked to
storytelling.
I knew it would have to belinked to meeting interesting
people and for me, because ofthat film background, I knew I
wanted it to have something todo with media and communications
, but I still wasn't sure whatit would quite be.
At Media City you had Doc 10Studios, so there was something
always going on amazing filmproduction, amazing news
(04:01):
programs.
It was just the mix and hub ofeverything.
Um, and it was just phenomenalthe way it happened and I think,
having that, that, it was thattap on the shoulder of saying
like we found everything thataligns with your skill set, like
do it.
And when I remember walkinginto that interview and I was
like this is my job, this is myjob, I'm gonna, this is what I'm
(04:22):
gonna do and you talk about the, the storytelling.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I mean, that's what you do, that's what your
superpower, isn't it?
You love to create thosestories.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I do and I love just finding, even if someone's
talking about the mostday-to-day what they might think
is mundane.
If they're passionate about it,then you'll unlock all of these
stories and then it's basicallywhat you're doing with me now.
It's just the listening, andthen they might be like, oh,
I've never thought someone wouldfind that interesting.
Like no, no, if you put it inthe right way, everything is
(04:55):
interesting.
And that goes back to like thatbit of advice Andy Lindsay said
to me years and years ago,saying um, it's more important
to be interested thaninteresting.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
And if you can listen to someone and like give them
the time of day and properlylisten to their story, then
that's just how thecommunications flow then and
it's lovely and I think that'swhen we first met and I feel
like we're coming into our 10thyear of Northern Power Women
Awards as part of our we ArePower family community and you
were at the Juice Academy,weren't you?
(05:26):
You were doing anapprenticeship for the fabulous
Henry over at the NorthernPowerhouse Partnership, and I
felt like that's where itstarted.
Then I saw you everywhere, yeah, so we think we were on our
journey, an adventure travellingacross the country.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, wherever you were, we were Two blondes in
Fiat 500s, yeah, and oftenhigh-vis, wasn't it?
Yeah, the stuff we got up to.
So that was another weird one.
I started at um, the juiceacademy and at the time I was
doing my apprenticeship at um,the UTC at media city, so that's
a university technical collegeand then we all got invited they
(06:04):
were doing names out of hat ifpeople wanted to go to the
Northern Powerhouse PartnershipApprentice Summit and I thought,
yeah, no, I really want to goto that.
So we kind of made our way toSiemens in Congleton and then
had to do this presentationabout what we thought the future
of apprenticeships would be,because Henry and the team were
doing their 2050 strategy.
And then we did thispresentation and then nothing
(06:27):
really happened with it.
So I thought, hmm, then theywere launching the strategy and
then they said, oh, wouldanybody like to come?
And I think I was the only oneout of the whole summer who went
.
Yeah, no, I'll go to the middleof Burnley, I'll go and see
what's going on.
And they had this amazing panel.
Jürgen Mayer was there, who wasthe chief exec of Siemens.
He was so interesting.
He had George Osborne who wasthe chair of Northern Powerhouse
Partnership, so a really bigpanel, and I think there were
(06:50):
about 90 people who'd beeninvited to visit the room and I
was the youngest person there,because I would have been about
24 probably at the time, so theyoungest person there by at
least 30 years.
I was probably one of only 10women who had been invited and I
was looking around and Ithought I'm not quite feeling
this.
And then they were talking allabout how these people had made
the strategy and it's going tobenefit all the people who were
(07:12):
going to be younger than me.
And I thought but this strategyhas been made by people who are
older than me and I'm going tohave to deliver it.
What have you actually done toengage with us?
So I thought they went oh, hasanybody got any questions?
We're all praising this report.
And then I thought, no, I do so.
I said this to um GeorgeOsborne and I remember it's
Lorna Fitzsimmons who was umchairing it.
Who's phenomenal as well, forceof nature, absolutely.
(07:34):
And I put this to him andeveryone was kind of looking, oh
, and she just went you ladyhave just challenged the former
chancellor of the exchequer, youare going to go far.
And then, um, after that Henrysaid he was like would you
consider moving yourapprenticeship from like I was
really enjoying it at the timethere, but would you consider
being our apprentice?
So went, moved theapprenticeship with them, became
(07:58):
their first apprentice and thenthey kind of threw me in at the
deep end and just went yeah,everything we're doing you can
do.
So that included that tour ofthe North with Jake Berry who
was the Minister of the NorthernPowerhouse at the time.
And then I remember you and Iwe just kept meeting at things
and we just kept kind ofgravitating towards each other.
And then we did that visit toCamelhead's and, yeah, high biz
hot hats, big boots.
(08:21):
And it was just lovely because Ithink you're just like me,
aren't you?
And it's.
You could either walk into aroom and not say anything, sit
in a corner and think, oh, Idon't like this, but I'll just
leave it be, or you can kind oftake it on and speak to the
decision makers and then just go.
But have you consideredeveryone?
Have you spoken to everyone?
Have you thought about how thiswill land with all different
(08:41):
people and start change-making abit more?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And were you like that through school and growing
up?
Were you always to put the handup?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
because I was probably less of that probably a
bit like um, we all got givenend of year awards.
I remember in sixth form andmine was um misopinionated, so
but I think people sometimes say, oh, she's very opinionated.
I think, no, no, that's a goodthing, because, again, why would
you want to be sort of not havean opinion on anything and
passive?
(09:12):
Or you can share an opinion,you can have a view and help
like work with people to makechange happen.
So now I've always been, yeah,probably quite forthcoming.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I know you were, or you are, on our future list from
2018 and once you're on thefuture list or published, you're
always in the gang.
There's no excuses there, thereis no escape.
Shall I say no, and definitelypart of our OG, you know.
But I remember there was afringe event I don't know
whether it was a Labour or aTory conference in Manchester
(09:43):
and it was in one of, I think,the Sir Peter Square offices and
I think it might have beenlovely.
We it was in one of the, Ithink the Sir.
Peter Square offices and I thinkit might have been lovely.
We're doing lots of namechecking today.
So many great people.
I think it might have been EmmaDagg, chairing or something
like that, and I remember youput a hand up and it was a
little bit like meerkatssuddenly all sweeping around to
the short blonde in the corner,kind of thing.
That wasn't me for once, kindof thing.
(10:05):
And think you name checked usNorthern Power women and I'm
sure, and all of a sudden itstarted a whole other dialogue.
But there is that importance ofputting your hand up and being
heard, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
yeah, I think it that was on the back off again and
that strategy, that 2050strategy, the Northern
Powerhouse lot had done.
They invited me then to um theFringe event and I just thought
you've got your guest list allwrong Because it was just the
same people again going from onething to another.
And I thought, no, if you'rejust preaching to all your
(10:37):
friends, you're not going tomake change happen.
Invite the people into the roomwho wouldn't normally be
invited and it's good to widenyour circle.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Well, I remember it was after that.
It was 2019.
We created Northern PowerFutures, yeah, and the whole
ethos of that was around therather catchy, snappy title of
you know.
Sort of it was all about thehow do we create a future?
Let's listen to those leadersof the future, not just white
men and mares Not that there'sanything wrong with that, you
(11:08):
know our white men and mares notthat there's anything wrong
with that, you know our whitemen and mares but actually let's
make sure we're creating abetter place for the future.
Yeah, it was never a snappyproject, but we created that
whole Northern Power Futuresmovement with a view that, going
hold on, these opinions are notbeing heard.
Why can we not createenvironments for more people to
put their hands up and lead inand actually come up with
flipping good suggestions aswell?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
and it was amazing what you did there as well,
because you had, I remember Iwas chairing a panel at one
point and again I would haveonly been 24, 25 doing that and
suddenly thinking it was a.
It was again another impressivepanel of people who have done
like far more kind of senior intheir careers to me, but to have
the opportunity to chair that.
And then you put me on adifferent panel where I was
being interviewed you don't getaway lightly.
(11:50):
I told you there's no escapeonce you're in there it's
amazing and that that wassponsored by, like, really big,
big companies as well, who wereand to think they were putting
the investment in and backing us.
That was amazing, but youcreated a platform there.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
that was it a future we wanted, wanted to create a
future for the future of theNorth by those people who are
going to live and lead it.
That was the whole ethos andthe sentiment of what it was
about to what it's going to be.
What is the thing that you'remost proud of that you have kind
of lent into, disrupted, putyour hand up for, just made a
simple suggestion what are youmost proud of?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
disrupted, put your hand up for just made a simple
suggestion.
What are you most proud of?
Oh see, I'd say there's not,there's not one particular
moment, but I think it's a skillI've realized just kind of
within me, and it's championingthat connecting up.
So what I've realized is I lovemeeting people and, as we know,
I love like learning everythingabout them.
But there's someone who I couldhave met about six years ago
(12:51):
and not seen for ages.
But suddenly, if I've had aconversation yesterday, I
thought you need to meet you andthen that's how, if you two got
together, that would be amazingand I think it's that creative
thinking.
But with the connecting up,that's what I'm so proud of,
because you don't know, like,what that will lead to for them.
I met a random person who wasjust selling independent ice
creams around the marine lakeand I thought, oh, I love this,
(13:13):
but you'd be amazing atLiverpool Waters, which is one
of our developments on thewaterfront, and then, through
that connection, from just achance walk, they've gone and
based themselves there allsummer now and they've done so
well for their business.
They've expanded, they love thepartnership with us because
they've got to meet Peel andwe've got this platform now as
well and to see their businesshas grown and been so successful
(13:33):
over summer.
I love that.
And that's just one smallbusiness.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
But that's thoughtfulness, isn't it?
That's surely what sometimesthis thing is.
We think that these are big,bold things that we've got to do
and we've got to shift andwrite strategies, for sometimes
it's just being thinking, yeah,and, dare I say, outside the box
.
I said it didn't I.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Oh, buzzword bingo but that, that creativity thing
and as well, and just thinkingwho, who would really benefit
from meeting who and I love thatand it goes back to that
widening the circle again aswell if, rather than just
keeping all contacts yourself orgoing over my friend or my
contact, just share.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Peer Waters, of all the things that you've been
involved with and probably lotsof crazy things, I imagine,
along the way what is the onethat you're most proud of, the
one that you've taken to market,and why?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
So this is going to sound very, very obscure, but
there's a sport at the momentwhich is just sweeping the UK
and the world and it's paddle.
Well, love paddle, see.
So that's the.
If someone's played paddle, it'salways followed by love paddle
yeah, because it's so addictiveand our kind of office are
obsessed with it and they gotkind of a bit ahead of the curve
(14:44):
really with it.
So we've created kind ofworking with the paddle club.
We're creating the biggestpurpose-built paddle facility in
the UK and I was working oncomms with them.
But then a separate companyhave decided they're going to do
the very first floating paddlecourts in all of Great Britain
with the UK's first floatingclubhouse.
So that might even be a worldfirst.
(15:04):
And I got interested with doingthat story and delivering it and
again getting to work withGareth Evans, who's like the
leader in Paddle, then workingwith the guys over in Finland
who are doing the mostinnovative crazy things, but
working with all theseinternational experts to then
try and pull a story together tomake it believable because it's
(15:25):
going to happen, but then toentice people for it to get
planning.
And we put this story togetherand it just went wild.
It went so good I'm thinkinglike, oh my God, they're my
words, they're my pictures.
That's the quote I've done.
I've been able to tell theirstory and things like it got on
the Sunday Times.
So seeing us getting nationalcoverage for that amazing.
(15:50):
And then even down to the echoand seeing a front page story
but putting Peel in a positivelight as well, and then seeing
across all these publicationswho would never touch normally a
sort of planning story.
It's amazing.
That makes me feel so proud,and you talk at the start.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
You know I work at Peelport.
It's in regeneration, but it'smore beyond that.
How, how do you make thatbalance between supporting the
needs of the people in thecommunity with the projects that
are going on, because sometimesthey can be at odds, I guess,
can't they?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
so um, I think it's about getting the, the level and
the messaging right andremembering to speak in a way
that people understand.
So, because I work now inregeneration and planning and
development, there are so manywords that if you're having a
normal conversation with someonein the pub, they'll be like
what you mean?
Btr, pbsa, um, all these sortsof random words which just keep
(16:35):
coming through and have to no,no, how will this actually
benefit someone like me or you?
How would I speak to my dadabout this?
And it's just about making it alittle bit more inclusive, a
bit more accessible, and thenthinking about okay, we're doing
this amazing development, butwhat about the park?
That's a bit people will wantto know.
Or how can they walk to thestadium a bit easier?
(16:56):
Or, if you are an independentfood and drink person, will
there be something for you theretoo?
So it's rather than justthinking like, oh, we're doing
this many units and it's goingto be this tall and this big.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
It's like no, no, let's just make it a little bit
more like place focused orpeople focused.
And what advice would you giveto your younger Emma?
You're young anyway, but whatadvice would you go back when
you were, probably before you'deven decided to do film studies?
What advice would you say then?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I think it's don't take things too personally,
because I do, and you know whatI'm like as well, because I am
forthcoming and I am opinionated.
Not everyone likes that, andI've had to like as I'm like as
well, because I am forthcomingand I am opinionated.
Not everyone likes that.
And I've had to like as I'mgetting older and maturing.
I have to realize that's okaybecause I'm also, as you can
imagine, working in comms,working in public relations,
(17:43):
people pleaser through andthrough.
I want to be liked and I likeliking people.
But it's this really weirdself-acceptance of thinking, no,
not everyone's going to like me, and you've got the option of
some people do want to be reallysimilar to other people, but to
me that's blending in, whereasif you can be your authentic
self and now I know everyone'sgoing to be your authentic self
(18:04):
it's on the bingo card right,but if you can be that, that
true to self person, then you'renever gonna to slip up, are you
?
I would hate it.
If I lose my passion forsomething, then what am I doing?
And I'd have to take myself outand just stop and reflect.
But I think it's that.
Don't take it personally.
Stick to your guns and justkeep going.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
And what part has this community had to play in
your world?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Oh, the Northern Power Women community.
You have and this is you andeveryone collectively part has
this community had to play in inyour world of a northern power
women community?
You have, and this is you andeveryone collectively you've
been that sort of anchor for meand that you played agony and as
well, if I've had an issue I'vebeen able to kind of go to you
or go to someone else.
You've it has opened doors aswell because you've you throw so
many events and the people inthere, all different levels, all
(18:53):
different backgrounds, alldifferent careers, but it's such
a melting pot of talent andpassion and amazing people that
you have no idea who you'regoing to connect.
But even outside of all theprofessional um side of work, I
remember when Covid happened,you knew I was living by myself,
yet you dialed up, you had ahit list of kind of people you
knew might be alone and you putus all in like an online dinner
(19:15):
party.
I remember I turned upcompletely drunk to one like
naturally, but you just keptchecking in and that's the.
That's a really, reallypowerful stuff that goes beyond
just professional networking.
That's connection through andthrough and proper like
relationship, kindness that Iappreciate so much and will
stick with me forever what isyour superpower.
(19:39):
She says, trying to distractwhile welling up a little bit um
, I think it is that connectingup piece, I think, being able to
meet people, warm to people andthen thinking, rather than just
thinking of them in a box,thinking you know what are all
the other amazing things thatthis person has and how can I
help expand their circle andconnect them to this, but
(20:02):
applying that bit of creativity,I think.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
And do you have like a mantra or quotation or a film
quote?
I don't care that you live bythat, you go yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
So with this one I remember so my um Auntie
Christine.
She was phenomenal um, she wasa teacher at the um secondary
school I went to and she was.
She was faded as well, but shewas lovely and she passed away,
really unfortunately, um kind ofabout six years ago and when I
(20:34):
was moving house I was sortingthrough all old cards and I
found one from her just beforeshe passed away and it said
there's value in everyexperience.
And I thought, oh my gosh,that's so true.
And that's.
Even if you go to an event andsay it's like, why on earth am I
here?
You'll find, even if it's justa story, after going, I went to
this really weird event and it'slike, why on earth am I here?
You'll find, even if it's justa story, after going, I went to
this really weird event, it's astory to tell.
(20:55):
Or you might meet someone youwould have never met.
And then again, about six yearslater, you might go, oh my gosh
, we've met before, haven't weat this and this.
There is anything.
It's.
Even if the meeting seemspointless, you might have
learned something from it.
So it's going back to anythingthat comes your way in life.
You will find value in thatexperience every time great tote
(21:18):
bag moment.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
So, emma, we are going to go and delve into our
power jar.
Are you, are you game power jar?
I'm not even sure that quitecame out right, but so many
innuendos as well?
I don't know where to go withthis, but anyway, we have a
power jar here and so we askevery guest to write a question
and pop it into the jar.
Okay, so you'll be poppingyours in later.
(21:40):
So this is from a previousguest.
Yes, please don't make it tooobscure, or maybe do let's just
you do you right.
Yeah, are you ready for thepower jar?
I'm ready.
Are you ready for the power jar?
I'm ready.
This is great for those of youlistening on the podcast.
Emma is just delving into thepower jar, which contains a
(22:00):
series of questions posed by ourprevious guests Emma.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Good one.
So if your life had a themesong that played every time you
walked into a room, what wouldit be?
So this obviously changesdepending on the mood, but I
can't I know this sounds stupidto um copy a theme tune.
But if you've ever watched AliMcBeal or Searching my Soul by
um Vonda Shepard I actuallysometimes drive to work
(22:27):
listening, listening to that,pretending that my life's a TV
show anyway, and it does work.
But what I've had on repeat,though as well, is One, girl
Revolution, which is from aLegally Blonde soundtrack, which
clear inspiration as well.
But I think, yeah, it would beone of them, and it's just
something that really gets yourmood going Like that shoulders
(22:49):
back.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, I'm getting that car parking space.
Yeah, or that seat on the tubeor the tram I'm getting it.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
So, pulling this card out, though this has made me
think of when I was at NorthernPowerhouse Partnership Henry
used to say, oh, go on, you canhave a go of doing anything.
And when it was InternationalWomen's Day, I thought, oh, I
want to do something a bitdifferent.
And I thought I had these likequestions which I sent out to
some of these amazing likefemale, like leaders.
But one question I put on thebottom was, if I was to build a
(23:16):
powerhouse playlist, what's thatsong that gets you like up and
going?
And I remember Joanne Roney,who was chief executive of
Manchester City Council.
She put in like Missy Elliott,and then I had like songs from
like Nicky Chance Thompson andall these other amazing women
from across the North.
And I've built this playlistand I'll still have it on my
Spotify somewhere.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
That needs to go in the show notes 100% in the show
notes.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I'm like you know what Professor, dame Nancy
Rothwell from University ofManchester her submitting her
song.
I thought that's such a goodway to understand what people
listen to.
It's so like insightful intothem as well.
I.
It's so like um insightful intothem as well.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
I love that.
That's made me have a fullcircle moment.
Well, thank you for joining usand sharing the, the playlist of
your life so far evergreen.
It's a joy to have you in ourworld and our community.
Um, keep being awesome, keepspinning those records.
She has like records, like.
Anyway, thank you so much we'lldo a disco next we will do oh my
gosh a we Are Power disco.
(24:16):
I can feel it coming on.
Thank you so much, lovely lady.
I really appreciate you joiningus and it's always a blast,
thank you for the opportunitythank you.
And thank you for joining us andwe will see you next week
subscribe on YouTube, apple,amazon Music, spotify or
wherever you.
And thank you for joining usand we will see you next week
subscribe on youtube, apple,amazon music, spotify or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Leave us a review or follow uson socials.
(24:38):
We are power underscore net oninsta, tiktok and twitter, or we
are power on linkedin, facebookand we are underscore power on
youtube.
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast.
If this is your first time here, the we Are Power podcast is
the podcast for you, your careerand your life.
We release an episode everysingle Monday with listeners in
over 60 countries worldwide,where you'll hear personal life
stories, top-notch industryadvice and key leadership
insight from amazing role models.
(00:21):
As we Are Power is the umbrellabrand to Northern Power Women
Awards, which celebrateshundreds of female role models
and advocates every year.
This is where you can hearstories from all of our awards
alumni and stay up to date witheverything MPW Awards and we Are
Power.
Well, welcome to the we ArePower podcast.
(00:41):
We've already been Neverimitated, never replicated.
Singularly wonderful,everybody's wonder girl.
Well, welcome to the we ArePower podcast.
We've already been having funbehind the scenes before we've
even started, haven't we?
My lovely, fantastic guest,emma Green, welcome to the
podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
How are you?
I'm so good and all the betterfor seeing you obviously.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
It's been such a long time.
How would you explain yourselfin three words?
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Whirlwind, enthusiastic and probably
passionate.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Okay, now tell me what's your day job.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
So day to day I lead on communications for Peel
Waters.
Peel Waters is part of the Peelgroup but our business
specialises in watersideregeneration across the country.
So I get all the stories andthe amazing kind of things all
the guys are doing at work, butI have to put them across in a
way people understand.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
So how did you go from?
Because, because you studied,was it film studies?
Yep, how did you go from filmstudies to Regeneration, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So it's interesting because the thing I loved the
most and why I chose filmstudies was because it's all
about kind of telling people'sstories and that's what kind of
communications is.
But the reason I chose thecourse at John Moores at the
time was because of all theirlinks with Media City.
John Moores at the time wasbecause of all their links with
Media City.
So when I was choosing kind ofwhat course to do, I thought,
well, I'm going to go for theuniversity which got all these
times with Media City, becausethis is the place where if you
(02:11):
want to work in media productionsomething creative you go to
Media City and it was brand newand it's just being built.
What I didn't realize was I'veended up working for the people
who had the vision and developedMedia City.
So it's kind of gone fullcircle.
But from that originaluniversity course I ended up
doing an apprenticeship and thenthe apprenticeship led again to
Media City and doing events inMedia City and it was my line
(02:33):
manager at the time who he sawthe job going at Peel Media said
I think I found your dream joband then it's gone on from then.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
And not only that, you actually now live in Media
City.
Don't you Up on the 450th flooror something ridiculous?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I do.
I've moved back.
I think it's because I'm from aWirral originally, so I still
have to have something to dowith water.
It's still having a bit of anescape.
So being by the Quays, it's themost phenomenal view and you
can see everything out there.
You can see the Trafford Centre, you can see all the stuff
that's going on at Trafford City, like coming out the ground and
being built.
You can see across toManchester Airport and you've
(03:08):
got still the amazing water andwe overlook Coronation Street as
well.
So just having a little sneakpeek and seeing what's going on
there, but it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Cobbles countryside and I'm trying to find something
nautical beginning with a, c,but it's okay, we can, we can,
we can help.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, not quite, but it's close enough.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
There we go.
It's all good, but you know,someone tapped you on the
shoulder and said I've got yourdream job here.
Did you know what your dreamjob was?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I knew it was going to be something linked to
storytelling.
I knew it would have to belinked to meeting interesting
people and for me, because ofthat film background, I knew I
wanted it to have something todo with media and communications
, but I still wasn't sure whatit would quite be.
At Media City you had Doc 10Studios, so there was something
always going on amazing filmproduction, amazing news
(04:01):
programs.
It was just the mix and hub ofeverything.
Um, and it was just phenomenalthe way it happened and I think,
having that, that, it was thattap on the shoulder of saying
like we found everything thataligns with your skill set, like
do it.
And when I remember walkinginto that interview and I was
like this is my job, this is myjob, I'm gonna, this is what I'm
(04:22):
gonna do and you talk about the, the storytelling.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I mean, that's what you do, that's what your
superpower, isn't it?
You love to create thosestories.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I do and I love just finding, even if someone's
talking about the mostday-to-day what they might think
is mundane.
If they're passionate about it,then you'll unlock all of these
stories and then it's basicallywhat you're doing with me now.
It's just the listening, andthen they might be like, oh,
I've never thought someone wouldfind that interesting.
Like no, no, if you put it inthe right way, everything is
(04:55):
interesting.
And that goes back to like thatbit of advice Andy Lindsay said
to me years and years ago,saying um, it's more important
to be interested thaninteresting.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
And if you can listen to someone and like give them
the time of day and properlylisten to their story, then
that's just how thecommunications flow then and
it's lovely and I think that'swhen we first met and I feel
like we're coming into our 10thyear of Northern Power Women
Awards as part of our we ArePower family community and you
were at the Juice Academy,weren't you?
(05:26):
You were doing anapprenticeship for the fabulous
Henry over at the NorthernPowerhouse Partnership, and I
felt like that's where itstarted.
Then I saw you everywhere, yeah, so we think we were on our
journey, an adventure travellingacross the country.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, wherever you were, we were Two blondes in
Fiat 500s, yeah, and oftenhigh-vis, wasn't it?
Yeah, the stuff we got up to.
So that was another weird one.
I started at um, the juiceacademy and at the time I was
doing my apprenticeship at um,the UTC at media city, so that's
a university technical collegeand then we all got invited they
(06:04):
were doing names out of hat ifpeople wanted to go to the
Northern Powerhouse PartnershipApprentice Summit and I thought,
yeah, no, I really want to goto that.
So we kind of made our way toSiemens in Congleton and then
had to do this presentationabout what we thought the future
of apprenticeships would be,because Henry and the team were
doing their 2050 strategy.
And then we did thispresentation and then nothing
(06:27):
really happened with it.
So I thought, hmm, then theywere launching the strategy and
then they said, oh, wouldanybody like to come?
And I think I was the only oneout of the whole summer who went
.
Yeah, no, I'll go to the middleof Burnley, I'll go and see
what's going on.
And they had this amazing panel.
Jürgen Mayer was there, who wasthe chief exec of Siemens.
He was so interesting.
He had George Osborne who wasthe chair of Northern Powerhouse
Partnership, so a really bigpanel, and I think there were
(06:50):
about 90 people who'd beeninvited to visit the room and I
was the youngest person there,because I would have been about
24 probably at the time, so theyoungest person there by at
least 30 years.
I was probably one of only 10women who had been invited and I
was looking around and Ithought I'm not quite feeling
this.
And then they were talking allabout how these people had made
the strategy and it's going tobenefit all the people who were
(07:12):
going to be younger than me.
And I thought but this strategyhas been made by people who are
older than me and I'm going tohave to deliver it.
What have you actually done toengage with us?
So I thought they went oh, hasanybody got any questions?
We're all praising this report.
And then I thought, no, I do so.
I said this to um GeorgeOsborne and I remember it's
Lorna Fitzsimmons who was umchairing it.
Who's phenomenal as well, forceof nature, absolutely.
(07:34):
And I put this to him andeveryone was kind of looking, oh
, and she just went you ladyhave just challenged the former
chancellor of the exchequer, youare going to go far.
And then, um, after that Henrysaid he was like would you
consider moving yourapprenticeship from like I was
really enjoying it at the timethere, but would you consider
being our apprentice?
So went, moved theapprenticeship with them, became
(07:58):
their first apprentice and thenthey kind of threw me in at the
deep end and just went yeah,everything we're doing you can
do.
So that included that tour ofthe North with Jake Berry who
was the Minister of the NorthernPowerhouse at the time.
And then I remember you and Iwe just kept meeting at things
and we just kept kind ofgravitating towards each other.
And then we did that visit toCamelhead's and, yeah, high biz
hot hats, big boots.
(08:21):
And it was just lovely because Ithink you're just like me,
aren't you?
And it's.
You could either walk into aroom and not say anything, sit
in a corner and think, oh, Idon't like this, but I'll just
leave it be, or you can kind oftake it on and speak to the
decision makers and then just go.
But have you consideredeveryone?
Have you spoken to everyone?
Have you thought about how thiswill land with all different
(08:41):
people and start change-making abit more?
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And were you like that through school and growing
up?
Were you always to put the handup?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
because I was probably less of that probably a
bit like um, we all got givenend of year awards.
I remember in sixth form andmine was um misopinionated, so
but I think people sometimes say, oh, she's very opinionated.
I think, no, no, that's a goodthing, because, again, why would
you want to be sort of not havean opinion on anything and
passive?
(09:12):
Or you can share an opinion,you can have a view and help
like work with people to makechange happen.
So now I've always been, yeah,probably quite forthcoming.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I know you were, or you are, on our future list from
2018 and once you're on thefuture list or published, you're
always in the gang.
There's no excuses there, thereis no escape.
Shall I say no, and definitelypart of our OG, you know.
But I remember there was afringe event I don't know
whether it was a Labour or aTory conference in Manchester
(09:43):
and it was in one of, I think,the Sir Peter Square offices and
I think it might have beenlovely.
We it was in one of the, Ithink the Sir.
Peter Square offices and I thinkit might have been lovely.
We're doing lots of namechecking today.
So many great people.
I think it might have been EmmaDagg, chairing or something
like that, and I remember youput a hand up and it was a
little bit like meerkatssuddenly all sweeping around to
the short blonde in the corner,kind of thing.
That wasn't me for once, kindof thing.
(10:05):
And think you name checked usNorthern Power women and I'm
sure, and all of a sudden itstarted a whole other dialogue.
But there is that importance ofputting your hand up and being
heard, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
yeah, I think it that was on the back off again and
that strategy, that 2050strategy, the Northern
Powerhouse lot had done.
They invited me then to um theFringe event and I just thought
you've got your guest list allwrong Because it was just the
same people again going from onething to another.
And I thought, no, if you'rejust preaching to all your
(10:37):
friends, you're not going tomake change happen.
Invite the people into the roomwho wouldn't normally be
invited and it's good to widenyour circle.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Well, I remember it was after that.
It was 2019.
We created Northern PowerFutures, yeah, and the whole
ethos of that was around therather catchy, snappy title of
you know.
Sort of it was all about thehow do we create a future?
Let's listen to those leadersof the future, not just white
men and mares Not that there'sanything wrong with that, you
(11:08):
know our white men and mares notthat there's anything wrong
with that, you know our whitemen and mares but actually let's
make sure we're creating abetter place for the future.
Yeah, it was never a snappyproject, but we created that
whole Northern Power Futuresmovement with a view that, going
hold on, these opinions are notbeing heard.
Why can we not createenvironments for more people to
put their hands up and lead inand actually come up with
flipping good suggestions aswell?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
and it was amazing what you did there as well,
because you had, I remember Iwas chairing a panel at one
point and again I would haveonly been 24, 25 doing that and
suddenly thinking it was a.
It was again another impressivepanel of people who have done
like far more kind of senior intheir careers to me, but to have
the opportunity to chair that.
And then you put me on adifferent panel where I was
being interviewed you don't getaway lightly.
(11:50):
I told you there's no escapeonce you're in there it's
amazing and that that wassponsored by, like, really big,
big companies as well, who wereand to think they were putting
the investment in and backing us.
That was amazing, but youcreated a platform there.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
that was it a future we wanted, wanted to create a
future for the future of theNorth by those people who are
going to live and lead it.
That was the whole ethos andthe sentiment of what it was
about to what it's going to be.
What is the thing that you'remost proud of that you have kind
of lent into, disrupted, putyour hand up for, just made a
simple suggestion what are youmost proud of?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
disrupted, put your hand up for just made a simple
suggestion.
What are you most proud of?
Oh see, I'd say there's not,there's not one particular
moment, but I think it's a skillI've realized just kind of
within me, and it's championingthat connecting up.
So what I've realized is I lovemeeting people and, as we know,
I love like learning everythingabout them.
But there's someone who I couldhave met about six years ago
(12:51):
and not seen for ages.
But suddenly, if I've had aconversation yesterday, I
thought you need to meet you andthen that's how, if you two got
together, that would be amazingand I think it's that creative
thinking.
But with the connecting up,that's what I'm so proud of,
because you don't know, like,what that will lead to for them.
I met a random person who wasjust selling independent ice
creams around the marine lakeand I thought, oh, I love this,
(13:13):
but you'd be amazing atLiverpool Waters, which is one
of our developments on thewaterfront, and then, through
that connection, from just achance walk, they've gone and
based themselves there allsummer now and they've done so
well for their business.
They've expanded, they love thepartnership with us because
they've got to meet Peel andwe've got this platform now as
well and to see their businesshas grown and been so successful
(13:33):
over summer.
I love that.
And that's just one smallbusiness.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
But that's thoughtfulness, isn't it?
That's surely what sometimesthis thing is.
We think that these are big,bold things that we've got to do
and we've got to shift andwrite strategies, for sometimes
it's just being thinking, yeah,and, dare I say, outside the box
.
I said it didn't I.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Oh, buzzword bingo but that, that creativity thing
and as well, and just thinkingwho, who would really benefit
from meeting who and I love thatand it goes back to that
widening the circle again aswell if, rather than just
keeping all contacts yourself orgoing over my friend or my
contact, just share.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Peer Waters, of all the things that you've been
involved with and probably lotsof crazy things, I imagine,
along the way what is the onethat you're most proud of, the
one that you've taken to market,and why?
Speaker 2 (14:22):
So this is going to sound very, very obscure, but
there's a sport at the momentwhich is just sweeping the UK
and the world and it's paddle.
Well, love paddle, see.
So that's the.
If someone's played paddle, it'salways followed by love paddle
yeah, because it's so addictiveand our kind of office are
obsessed with it and they gotkind of a bit ahead of the curve
(14:44):
really with it.
So we've created kind ofworking with the paddle club.
We're creating the biggestpurpose-built paddle facility in
the UK and I was working oncomms with them.
But then a separate companyhave decided they're going to do
the very first floating paddlecourts in all of Great Britain
with the UK's first floatingclubhouse.
So that might even be a worldfirst.
(15:04):
And I got interested with doingthat story and delivering it and
again getting to work withGareth Evans, who's like the
leader in Paddle, then workingwith the guys over in Finland
who are doing the mostinnovative crazy things, but
working with all theseinternational experts to then
try and pull a story together tomake it believable because it's
(15:25):
going to happen, but then toentice people for it to get
planning.
And we put this story togetherand it just went wild.
It went so good I'm thinkinglike, oh my God, they're my
words, they're my pictures.
That's the quote I've done.
I've been able to tell theirstory and things like it got on
the Sunday Times.
So seeing us getting nationalcoverage for that amazing.
(15:50):
And then even down to the echoand seeing a front page story
but putting Peel in a positivelight as well, and then seeing
across all these publicationswho would never touch normally a
sort of planning story.
It's amazing.
That makes me feel so proud,and you talk at the start.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
You know I work at Peelport.
It's in regeneration, but it'smore beyond that.
How, how do you make thatbalance between supporting the
needs of the people in thecommunity with the projects that
are going on, because sometimesthey can be at odds, I guess,
can't they?
Speaker 2 (16:13):
so um, I think it's about getting the, the level and
the messaging right andremembering to speak in a way
that people understand.
So, because I work now inregeneration and planning and
development, there are so manywords that if you're having a
normal conversation with someonein the pub, they'll be like
what you mean?
Btr, pbsa, um, all these sortsof random words which just keep
(16:35):
coming through and have to no,no, how will this actually
benefit someone like me or you?
How would I speak to my dadabout this?
And it's just about making it alittle bit more inclusive, a
bit more accessible, and thenthinking about okay, we're doing
this amazing development, butwhat about the park?
That's a bit people will wantto know.
Or how can they walk to thestadium a bit easier?
(16:56):
Or, if you are an independentfood and drink person, will
there be something for you theretoo?
So it's rather than justthinking like, oh, we're doing
this many units and it's goingto be this tall and this big.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
It's like no, no, let's just make it a little bit
more like place focused orpeople focused.
And what advice would you giveto your younger Emma?
You're young anyway, but whatadvice would you go back when
you were, probably before you'deven decided to do film studies?
What advice would you say then?
Speaker 2 (17:23):
I think it's don't take things too personally,
because I do, and you know whatI'm like as well, because I am
forthcoming and I am opinionated.
Not everyone likes that, andI've had to like as I'm like as
well, because I am forthcomingand I am opinionated.
Not everyone likes that.
And I've had to like as I'mgetting older and maturing.
I have to realize that's okaybecause I'm also, as you can
imagine, working in comms,working in public relations,
(17:43):
people pleaser through andthrough.
I want to be liked and I likeliking people.
But it's this really weirdself-acceptance of thinking, no,
not everyone's going to like me, and you've got the option of
some people do want to be reallysimilar to other people, but to
me that's blending in, whereasif you can be your authentic
self and now I know everyone'sgoing to be your authentic self
(18:04):
it's on the bingo card right,but if you can be that, that
true to self person, then you'renever gonna to slip up, are you
?
I would hate it.
If I lose my passion forsomething, then what am I doing?
And I'd have to take myself outand just stop and reflect.
But I think it's that.
Don't take it personally.
Stick to your guns and justkeep going.
Speaker 1 (18:27):
And what part has this community had to play in
your world?
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Oh, the Northern Power Women community.
You have and this is you andeveryone collectively part has
this community had to play in inyour world of a northern power
women community?
You have, and this is you andeveryone collectively you've
been that sort of anchor for meand that you played agony and as
well, if I've had an issue I'vebeen able to kind of go to you
or go to someone else.
You've it has opened doors aswell because you've you throw so
many events and the people inthere, all different levels, all
(18:53):
different backgrounds, alldifferent careers, but it's such
a melting pot of talent andpassion and amazing people that
you have no idea who you'regoing to connect.
But even outside of all theprofessional um side of work, I
remember when Covid happened,you knew I was living by myself,
yet you dialed up, you had ahit list of kind of people you
knew might be alone and you putus all in like an online dinner
(19:15):
party.
I remember I turned upcompletely drunk to one like
naturally, but you just keptchecking in and that's the.
That's a really, reallypowerful stuff that goes beyond
just professional networking.
That's connection through andthrough and proper like
relationship, kindness that Iappreciate so much and will
stick with me forever what isyour superpower.
(19:39):
She says, trying to distractwhile welling up a little bit um
, I think it is that connectingup piece, I think, being able to
meet people, warm to people andthen thinking, rather than just
thinking of them in a box,thinking you know what are all
the other amazing things thatthis person has and how can I
help expand their circle andconnect them to this, but
(20:02):
applying that bit of creativity,I think.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
And do you have like a mantra or quotation or a film
quote?
I don't care that you live bythat, you go yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
So with this one I remember so my um Auntie
Christine.
She was phenomenal um, she wasa teacher at the um secondary
school I went to and she was.
She was faded as well, but shewas lovely and she passed away,
really unfortunately, um kind ofabout six years ago and when I
(20:34):
was moving house I was sortingthrough all old cards and I
found one from her just beforeshe passed away and it said
there's value in everyexperience.
And I thought, oh my gosh,that's so true.
And that's.
Even if you go to an event andsay it's like, why on earth am I
here?
You'll find, even if it's justa story, after going, I went to
this really weird event and it'slike, why on earth am I here?
You'll find, even if it's justa story, after going, I went to
this really weird event, it's astory to tell.
(20:55):
Or you might meet someone youwould have never met.
And then again, about six yearslater, you might go, oh my gosh
, we've met before, haven't weat this and this.
There is anything.
It's.
Even if the meeting seemspointless, you might have
learned something from it.
So it's going back to anythingthat comes your way in life.
You will find value in thatexperience every time great tote
(21:18):
bag moment.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
So, emma, we are going to go and delve into our
power jar.
Are you, are you game power jar?
I'm not even sure that quitecame out right, but so many
innuendos as well?
I don't know where to go withthis, but anyway, we have a
power jar here and so we askevery guest to write a question
and pop it into the jar.
Okay, so you'll be poppingyours in later.
(21:40):
So this is from a previousguest.
Yes, please don't make it tooobscure, or maybe do let's just
you do you right.
Yeah, are you ready for thepower jar?
I'm ready.
Are you ready for the power jar?
I'm ready.
This is great for those of youlistening on the podcast.
Emma is just delving into thepower jar, which contains a
(22:00):
series of questions posed by ourprevious guests Emma.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Good one.
So if your life had a themesong that played every time you
walked into a room, what wouldit be?
So this obviously changesdepending on the mood, but I
can't I know this sounds stupidto um copy a theme tune.
But if you've ever watched AliMcBeal or Searching my Soul by
um Vonda Shepard I actuallysometimes drive to work
(22:27):
listening, listening to that,pretending that my life's a TV
show anyway, and it does work.
But what I've had on repeat,though as well, is One, girl
Revolution, which is from aLegally Blonde soundtrack, which
clear inspiration as well.
But I think, yeah, it would beone of them, and it's just
something that really gets yourmood going Like that shoulders
(22:49):
back.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, I'm getting that car parking space.
Yeah, or that seat on the tubeor the tram I'm getting it.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
So, pulling this card out, though this has made me
think of when I was at NorthernPowerhouse Partnership Henry
used to say, oh, go on, you canhave a go of doing anything.
And when it was InternationalWomen's Day, I thought, oh, I
want to do something a bitdifferent.
And I thought I had these likequestions which I sent out to
some of these amazing likefemale, like leaders.
But one question I put on thebottom was, if I was to build a
(23:16):
powerhouse playlist, what's thatsong that gets you like up and
going?
And I remember Joanne Roney,who was chief executive of
Manchester City Council.
She put in like Missy Elliott,and then I had like songs from
like Nicky Chance Thompson andall these other amazing women
from across the North.
And I've built this playlistand I'll still have it on my
Spotify somewhere.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
That needs to go in the show notes 100% in the show
notes.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
I'm like you know what Professor, dame Nancy
Rothwell from University ofManchester her submitting her
song.
I thought that's such a goodway to understand what people
listen to.
It's so like insightful intothem as well.
I.
It's so like um insightful intothem as well.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
I love that.
That's made me have a fullcircle moment.
Well, thank you for joining usand sharing the, the playlist of
your life so far evergreen.
It's a joy to have you in ourworld and our community.
Um, keep being awesome, keepspinning those records.
She has like records, like.
Anyway, thank you so much we'lldo a disco next we will do oh my
gosh a we Are Power disco.
(24:16):
I can feel it coming on.
Thank you so much, lovely lady.
I really appreciate you joiningus and it's always a blast,
thank you for the opportunitythank you.
And thank you for joining us andwe will see you next week
subscribe on YouTube, apple,amazon Music, spotify or
wherever you.
And thank you for joining usand we will see you next week
subscribe on youtube, apple,amazon music, spotify or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Leave us a review or follow uson socials.
(24:38):
We are power underscore net oninsta, tiktok and twitter, or we
are power on linkedin, facebookand we are underscore power on
youtube.
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