January 28, 2024 • 26 mins
Stepping into an industry where the odds are stacked against you requires a blend of resilience and tenacity—qualities Sarah Perris has in spades. Sarah joins us to narrate her extraordinary journey through the realm of business and sports. This conversation isn't just about breaking glass ceilings; it's about building a new foundation for future female leaders to stand on. Join us for a stirring episode that celebrates the strength and spirit of women forging their paths, against the odds, towards greatness.
Listen to learn:
- Skills to navigate the complexities of male-dominated spheres
- The importance of amplifying women's voices in leadership positions
- The power of staying true to your passion
- The importance of self-care and the significance of setting boundaries
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Music the Northern Power Women Podcast For your
career and your life, no matterwhat business you're in.
Hello and welcome to theNorthern Power Women Podcast, a
(00:29):
podcast that I absolutely adorehosting every week, where I get
to chat to some of the mostinspiring personal and
professional role models outthere doing fantastic things,
and I always want and hope thatwe can pass some of those advice
, top tips and hacks on to you,whatever it may be, to help you
through your life, your career,no matter what, what, what
(00:50):
journey you're on right now.
So I am delighted this week tohave Sarah Parris, who is the
managing partner at Parris my,join us on the Northern Power
Women Podcast.
Sarah has the widest story andthe most fantastic biography.
I see her bobbing all overLinkedIn doing fantastic things,
and when I asked her to come onthe podcast and then ask for
that bio, I was like, oh mygoodness, how do we make this
(01:13):
not into a, into a box set?
You know sort of from your yourgrowing up, differences and
working across the whole of theworld.
It feels like the many charityroles that you've got and your
overwhelming passion for sport,in particular, women's Rugby.
We have got such a lot tounpack in the next 20 minutes.
(01:33):
Sarah, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's an absolute honour and pleasure to be with
you this morning.
I would I can't tell you I wasso chapped when, when I saw your
, your message on LinkedIn, Ithought, oh my God, that's
wonderful.
So, yes, I'm delighted.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Oh, and honestly it is.
It's brilliant because I thinkthere's always something about
listening to people.
Everyone has a different story,everyone has a different
pathway and I think for anyonelistening out there who's either
lost, stuck, thriving, whereveryou may be, I think there's
always something that we alwayslike to pass on in.
So you know, you weren't in themotor industry, haven't you?
(02:09):
For a very tough industry forover a decade.
Talk to me about what.
What was tough?
What was the?
Was it tough with the capital T?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, it really was.
Because it was.
I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm now in myearly 60s and when I started in
my early 20s it was I was justassumed, whatever role I was in,
that I was somebody secretary.
If I was phoning up to find outwhere a meeting room was, who
(02:41):
who's secretary are, you Go andget the coffee.
If I was in a in a in a meetingroom and I mean there were, I
could tell you so many storieswe could spend 15 minutes just
on that.
But let me tell you one of themost horrendous.
And when I was offered the roleas Worldwide Communications
Director for Rolls Royce andBentley Motor Cards, as it was
then Bentley Motors, as it isnow, it had recently been
(03:04):
acquired by the Volkswagen Group.
So it was great.
I was so excited.
I'm a real car nut.
I've been working for Ford for10 years around the world and
this was a real challenge totake a brand, to take the
Bentley brand that was really ina lot of trouble and make
something of it.
So it was great opportunities.
I was saying yes, I was veryexcited as I was put my house on
(03:27):
market and a house up here,ready to go, ready to move up.
And then I had a phone call tosay would you make some of the
chief executive names chiefoperating officer, chief
executive and chair of theVolkswagen Motor Group wanted to
interview me.
Oh sorry, really, and why I wassuch a minion in comparison.
(03:53):
You know I was, I was nothing,I was so unimportant.
So anyway, I was I.
Okay, all right, you want totalk to me off.
We went and got to Germany, gotthe head offers, went up in the
lift, went across the corridorto another lift where there was
a guard with a gun, went up tothe boardroom drawer, went into
the boardroom and I'm thinkingthis is so surreal, this is just
(04:18):
so weird.
Anyway, he of course kept mewaiting nearly an hour and two
other members of the board camein, one of whom didn't speak any
English, and then he eventuallycame in and sat and started
asking me questions and I waswarned about him.
I must admit that he hadpiercing blue eyes and he would
use them just and say nothing.
(04:40):
And he was asking me a lot ofquestions.
And he said Sarah, I understandyou have twin daughters and
they are two years old.
I mean, yeah, seven.
Do you not think that makes youa bad mother.
I have a question for you.
(05:02):
You can imagine I was ready togo absolutely vertical.
I thought what planet are we onhere?
What planets are we on?
And I won't bore you with thedetails, but suffice to say that
when he said, do you have anyquestions for me, I got one in.
That was incrediblyembarrassing for him and I
(05:22):
walked out thinking justice wasdone.
But yeah, quite extraordinary.
So yes, the automotive industryhad an awful lot of challenges
and one of the things, one ofthe reasons I do a huge amount
of mentoring now, is that inthose days it wasn't even a
thing.
It probably wasn't even in thedictionary, to be honest, and I
would have benefited so much byhaving somebody who'd been
(05:45):
through that, who could guide me, who could help me, who could
say that's a battle worthfighting.
That one just leave it.
So yeah, lots and lots ofinteresting, amazing stories and
I mean I had a great time, butI did have two young children.
I don't know if it was the job,but not long after I started
(06:05):
the job, I ended up gettingdivorced.
I was a single parent in a verybig role and there came a time
where I thought can't do thisanymore.
So I was offered redundancy.
I thought, yes, great, took itand that was a one and only time
I've had with my daughtersActually, there were two but
this one where they did thattwin thing and I sat down with
(06:29):
them and I said, right, mommy'sgot an opportunity.
We're going to leave here, I cango and get another big job and
we can have the house and theholidays and the cars, or we can
get rid of all of it by reallysmall house somewhere, and I
can't promise you there'll beany holidays or anything.
But I will take it to school inthe morning and I will pick you
(06:51):
up from school in the afternoon, which I hadn't done for the
whole lives.
They would have been four bythis time.
Five, six, five, six, six.
By then I said go and talk toeach other and then we'll have
another discussion.
They stopped, they looked ateach other, turned to me and
said mommy, we want you.
End of discussion.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So, yes, I didn't go into another corporate role and
just to have interest, before wekind of unpack some of that
conversation there, what was thesecond twin moment you talked
about there being?
They did it twice, the twinthing.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Actually, the other one was an odd one.
Actually, this was when theywere very small.
They would have been two, theycould talk about two and there
were very different parts of thehouse and we had Quetely Castle
.
In those days, this one, we'rea whole family.
And I heard one of some screamwho was down one end of the
(07:46):
house.
The other one was upstairs withme a hand to head and said oh,
oh, my head, and the other onehad hit her head.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Wow, wow, and we'll come back to your girls in a
minute because they've got.
They're very much in the worldof sport, and in different ways,
but we'll come back to thatbecause they know sport is
really important to you.
But what were the superpowersthat you honed to overcome some
of the challenges that you hadin that, I suppose, that very
(08:17):
male dominated industry, theinterview situation that you had
, going through divorce,deciding to take this different,
what would you say thatsuperpower that you brought to
the fore?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I guess two things learning when to zip it because
my head there's a million thingsof just wanting to come from my
head straight out my mouth andlearning very early on when is
the right time to say something,when it's not.
I also learned how to use myeyes to say a lot more than my
(08:54):
mouth could say and to make itvery clear to somebody when what
they were saying was absolutelyIncorporate or wrong, when I
was not happy.
So Everybody really knows youwill tell you, they can tell,
they can read me like a book.
It's, it's all there, it's allin my face.
But it actually was a realadvantage when I was was in that
(09:14):
industry because people canrepeat back to you things you
have said.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Not so much so a senior look, you've given a love
within sort of the roles thatyou've had in particularly
automotive.
I can't imagine there was manywomen at very senior levels at
that time.
Did you see change during thattime or not to be?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
honest, no, no, not in the automotive industry while
I was there and the seniorpeople were always HR, pr,
communications and HR that theyreally weren't want anymore.
But actually now in my Runningmy own business, which I've been
doing with Mary and for nearly20 years now, we do a lot of
(09:55):
work in the automotive industryand it is changing.
It is definitely changing.
There.
There are far more engineerscoming through the system and
designers coming through thesystem who Nearly nearly there
and you talk about that.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Women don't quite and they're not stereotypical every
woman but, you know, don'talways really realize their own
potential or don't see it.
I have a million whatsappgroups and I see it every day.
When somebody puts a role in oran opportunity I almost see, or
a media opportunity, you seepeople almost like lean out
sometimes because they thinkthat imposter syndrome you
talked about earlier, you know,is that one of the reasons why
(10:31):
you got involved in women atboards to try and help and
support that whole kind ofunleashing the power of our
fantastic board ready women whojust don't realize it.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Well, one artist is two things actually.
It's one because Boards benefitwhen they have women on them.
So it's to the benefit of theboard and I could see that
through my career.
But also it is to encouragewomen.
You are needed out there, youhave the skills.
Sometimes they just need alittle, a little nudge.
Sometimes they just need aShort conversation with someone
(11:05):
like me or the many other womenare out there supporting women,
to say, okay, well, tell meabout this, okay, so what?
You've done that and you'vedone that really wow and okay.
So let's just have a look atthis job role and now tell me
why you're not the right personfor this.
And it's a lot of women do dothat.
(11:26):
Oh, no, no, no, I haven't.
They've listed all these thingsand I've only got any of them.
Well, I Promise you, the guywho's only got tourism will go
for the job.
And it is so important to thebenefit of younger women coming
through, to the girls who arestill at school, to the girls I
haven't even been born yet thatwe go out there and we that
(11:48):
we're brave and we say, okay,it's a big jump, I've got to
take a bit big breath, but justdo it and People like me are out
here to help you.
People have been sure peoplewho are older were here to help
you with, to give you theconfidence to to go out there
and apply for those board roles,because they need you and, yeah
(12:13):
, the world needs more women onboard.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So I'm seeing a question about it and it strikes
me is, looking at yourbiography, that you are a Serial
either board advisor or orchair or vice chair.
From women in sport to salessharks, to Motherwell, cheshire
twins, troraciphon trust, cancerresearch, age UK, the list goes
on.
The list goes on and on and on.
(12:35):
Which is amazing Is that, isthat something that's very
intentional that you've you'vedone to go?
You know, actually one old canadd value and I want to be that
visible role model who is onboards.
It was that your plan.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
No, I must be absolutely honest.
I wish I could say yes, I wishI could say I was that
structured.
And no, just I mean to be clear, I'm not on all of those now
because, well, we'll come backto my mantra in a little while
but the one of them I was askedto be on and they just kind of
(13:09):
happened and sometimes I lookback and think, oh, how did that
happen?
But yeah, all of them I wasapproached for and Very happy to
, to put it, to say yeah, okay,let's go for it.
And with some of them I startedas as as trustee Twins trust.
I started as a volunteer.
I was volunteered for, oh,nearly 20 years and and with
(13:33):
about six years, eight years agonow, they came to me and said
would you consider coming ontothe board?
Because they wanted to gothrough a name change and I have
that skill set.
So, yeah, absolutely, I'd loveto.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
And is it ever too early to go and seek that board
position or trustee position?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I'd say an ideal age to start thinking about it is
about 18.
And I do know 18 year olds whoare on boards, and that doesn't
mean it has to be BP shells fullmade company.
It can be a local charity thatyou're really passionate about,
the primary school you went to,that you know firsthand the
(14:18):
things that could be improvedupon.
There are so many charitableopportunities and what I would
say to everybody out there thatyou can learn so much from going
on a board.
And it starts small.
If you are concerned about it,and if you're not and you've got
a lot of experience, then go inat the top, go for the big
(14:39):
boards.
But yeah, I would urge everybodyto consider it from a much
earlier age, becausetraditionally what's happened is
people like me.
You get to your 50s and think,oh, actually I'm going to do it,
I want to give something back.
But actually, what I would sayto all younger women out there,
it's not only about getting back.
(15:00):
You get so much from it and itcan really help your career.
So it's a strategic, good movetoo.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I could agree more, as an amazing woman called Mayor
Ellis.
When I first met her, right atthe start of my Northern Power
Women journey, she was on, Ithink she was one of the
youngest trustees ever for GirlGuiding and she was also on the
board of our local theatre, orPin Lancaster, and she was on
the board of our local theatreand she was the one who always
made me believe that, you know,actually this is something, you
know, we should be encouragingat an early age.
(15:31):
Almost these things, that sothings that you never learn in
school, isn't it?
But anyway it is, it's thosethings.
But you now head up your ownagency, which we talked about
before and very much heavilyfocused around training.
Coaching and communication iskey to you.
Talk to us about that.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yes, it is key.
And actually I was so luckybecause I went to a big
networking event which wouldhave been 20 years ago and the
keynote speaker was Maryn Myatt,who was then a broadcast
journalist.
She fronted Northwesternitespecifically and we had to chat
afterwards and I said, oh, let'shave a cup of coffee sometime.
(16:11):
So a couple of months later wehad a cup of coffee which lasted
four hours.
Oh, we can do this, we can dothis, we can do this.
So always have that cup ofcoffee, you know.
Then take every opportunity.
And we realized that with mystrategic comms background and
her practical journalismbackground she'd worked in radio
, television, on local andnational news.
(16:33):
We had a huge amount to offerin terms of supporting
organizations big, small, mediumwith strategic communications,
teaching how to do television,how to do interviews, how to do
presentations and, honestly,we've never looked back.
We definitely are ying and yang.
(16:54):
She's just the most wonderfulperson in the world and various,
calm, very patient, and I'mneither of those things and just
to give us, I know you talkabout public speaking and that's
one of your things you verymuch talk about.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
What are those three top tips that you talk about
that you would offer for anyoneout there who thinks, oh, I
can't do that, I'll leave that,I'll stay in the audience?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Why would you miss the opportunity to have your
voice heard?
I can assure you that 99.9% ofthe population are terrified, so
you're not alone.
The person up there that lookslike the swan gliding along is
not Maryna will tell you.
Before she went on televisionto present to eight, nine
million people, she wasabsolutely broken.
(17:39):
She was stirring up in theloose every evening before she
went on.
But once you get into it andyou get used to it, is it great
fun.
It is really good fun and itgives you the opportunity again,
if you're in whatever stage ofyour career you're in, to be in
(18:01):
the spotlight and to have yourvoice heard.
And you're just out there havinga chat with people.
That's what I would say.
Find some friendly faces, takea couple of deep breaths
Breathing is so important.
Find some friendly faces outthere and chat to them as if it
was your new home, yourneighbour.
Over the fence You're standingover the cup of tea or glass of
(18:22):
wine.
Just have a chat.
That's really all it is.
And the most important thing Iwould say is any form of
communication is authenticity.
Don't try to be somethingyou're not, because people see
through you and then they won'tlisten to you.
So be you.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
It's authentic, isn't it?
It's be exactly you.
Don't try and be somebody else,because actually they're all
taken.
Let's jump back into the sortof where we had probably a good
20 minute conversation before wepress record today about sports
.
We talked about your twins,your twin girls and about
women's rugby.
The importance of sport is so,so vital.
(19:04):
It's always something I've beenreally passionate about and the
disconnectivity between sportdisengaging with sport in the
early age, and belief andconfidence and all that kind of
things.
You've got a differentexperience, haven't you, with
your girls at different sides ofthe spectrum in sport.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I do.
So they, as I said, they'reidentical twin girls and they
both play rugby and however hardI've tried to get them doing
different things, they've alwaysswung back around and ended up
doing the same thing.
So they both started playingtouch rugby and play touch rugby
(19:43):
for England, and then they bothstarted to get into contact
rugby.
Well, one did, the other onefollowed a little bit later and
they really enjoyed it.
So one of them they've gotAmerican passport.
So one of them decided that shewas going to go to America to
coach, to play, to hopefully getup to the level of playing for
(20:06):
USA International team.
The other one stayed here.
She played at Waterloo over inLiverpool.
Waterloo Women's Rugby Club didvery well there and then Sail
Sharks was given a place in thePremiership in the Allianz
Premiership, as it was thenthree and a half years ago and
(20:28):
so she moved over there andmoved over to Sail and very, who
played there for a couple ofyears.
We had lockdown and all therest of it and then was very
quickly picked up by USAInternational team.
Meanwhile the other one, who hadgone to America, in her third
match, smashed her knee toceases.
I had to go over, bring herhome for major surgery.
(20:50):
She was off for a year.
She decided to go back and playagain.
I think it was about threemonths after she started again,
she did the same thing again.
So she was off for another yearand the most dreadful three
hour operation I mean the soulsings awful.
I never played rugby again.
(21:11):
And then she got better andthen she's decided actually I
will play rugby again andhonestly, this is part of the
joy of rugby.
She said look, you do whateveryou want to do.
We went to her first match back.
She was supposed to play for 20minutes but she said no, I'm
staying on.
She played for 60 minutes, cameoff and I've never seen a grin
like it.
(21:31):
She was so happy.
The buzz of it was incredibleand in that one snapshot moment
I thought this is what sport isabout.
This is what sport can give toyoung girls, to young women, to
older women.
They're playing rugby as well,by the way, they're playing
rugby.
So then she got back and then,unfortunately, last year she had
(21:54):
a very nasty concussion.
So she was off for a long timeand she came back again.
And then 10 days ago she wasplaying again and she completely
slapped her collarbone, soshe's now off work for over a
month, she can't drive for sixweeks, and so on and so forth.
Meanwhile, the other one isCaptain of Sail Sharks Women and
(22:18):
if she's selected which we'reall hoping she will be she'll be
going off to I think it'sAustralia for the next USA
International Tour.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Wow, wow.
It's just different stories,isn't it?
We talk about career journeysconstantly.
We talk about the world ofsport, but I think it's the
smile that you talk that I bringto your daughter.
So, even though I know she'shaving that challenging time,
this is where you've got to digdeep on the resilience and get
some of the superpower out,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
But also the other thing I would say that Rosely
brings.
Any sport, any team sportbrings.
So the first week she was inexcruciating agony.
She couldn't move.
She was her right arm, herright collarbone, so she
couldn't move her arm, so shecouldn't do anything for herself
and there was not a momentthere wasn't one of those girls
that she plays rugby with.
They're by her side, making hermeals, feeding her, showering
(23:13):
her, helping her.
And that's the other thing thatteam sport brings is this
incredible bond, this friendshipthat all I know with many of
those girls last forever.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
So just talk to me finally about you mentioned
earlier.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You talked about your mantra yeah, yes, my mantra.
Now, this is something thattook me far too long to learn,
and this is about all thevarious things I did.
I suddenly my mantra is reallyabout.
We all heard it put on youroxygen mask first before you see
to other people, and I suddenlyfound myself doing too many
(23:47):
things all at the same time andI wasn't able to care for others
, let alone myself, and I hadthis conversation with one of my
daughters the other day stopsaying yes to everything.
Think before you say yes.
Is it something that you wantto do that talks to your heart?
Is it something that willbenefit you?
(24:09):
If so, say yes, but don't justkeep saying yes to everything,
because looking after yourselffirst is the most important
place.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I literally think you're talking to me right now,
Sarah.
Who's put you up to this?
Who's put you up to this?
I could talk to you forever.
We've gone on a journey haveaway from working in the
automotive industry to bring inup an amazing young family, to
supporting them on their careerventures into the world of sport
, to being a serial charity,trustee, board members across a
(24:41):
number of different disciplines,setting your own business up
and, just quite frankly, beingkickass.
Sarah, thank you.
I keep playing rugby.
That didn't say that in the bio.
Oh, I will.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I will.
I know I forgot about that one.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Sarah, thank you so much.
It's been an absolute delightto converse with you today.
Thank you for all those toptips.
I'm literally scribbling as wego along, but thank you so much.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Another amazing role model ofthe Northern Power.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Women podcast.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
Thank you so much indeed,Simone.
I was just so thrilled, sothank you.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Oh, I thank all of you for listening.
I'm sure you will be totallymotivated and inspired by Sarah
and her stories, and now I can'twait to chat to the twins too,
because what a story and journeythey've been on Just phenomenal
.
So please stay connected witheverything we do on our socials
on North Power Women on Twitterand Northern Power Women on all
the others and sign up to ourdigital platform, wearepowernet.
(25:42):
It's the home of everything wedo, from our podcast to our
webinars, to the awards, to ourvirtual power-up, speed
networking and mentoring that wedo.
It's a world that we want topass on, pay it forward.
We want to be a version ofSarah every day, giving it back,
passing on skills and knowledge.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
My name's Simone.
This is the Northern PowerWomen podcast and that's what
goes on.
(26:02):
Media production.
Music the Northern Power Women Podcast For your
career and your life, no matterwhat business you're in.
Hello and welcome to theNorthern Power Women Podcast, a
(00:29):
podcast that I absolutely adorehosting every week, where I get
to chat to some of the mostinspiring personal and
professional role models outthere doing fantastic things,
and I always want and hope thatwe can pass some of those advice
, top tips and hacks on to you,whatever it may be, to help you
through your life, your career,no matter what, what, what
(00:50):
journey you're on right now.
So I am delighted this week tohave Sarah Parris, who is the
managing partner at Parris my,join us on the Northern Power
Women Podcast.
Sarah has the widest story andthe most fantastic biography.
I see her bobbing all overLinkedIn doing fantastic things,
and when I asked her to come onthe podcast and then ask for
that bio, I was like, oh mygoodness, how do we make this
(01:13):
not into a, into a box set?
You know sort of from your yourgrowing up, differences and
working across the whole of theworld.
It feels like the many charityroles that you've got and your
overwhelming passion for sport,in particular, women's Rugby.
We have got such a lot tounpack in the next 20 minutes.
(01:33):
Sarah, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
It's an absolute honour and pleasure to be with
you this morning.
I would I can't tell you I wasso chapped when, when I saw your
, your message on LinkedIn, Ithought, oh my God, that's
wonderful.
So, yes, I'm delighted.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Oh, and honestly it is.
It's brilliant because I thinkthere's always something about
listening to people.
Everyone has a different story,everyone has a different
pathway and I think for anyonelistening out there who's either
lost, stuck, thriving, whereveryou may be, I think there's
always something that we alwayslike to pass on in.
So you know, you weren't in themotor industry, haven't you?
(02:09):
For a very tough industry forover a decade.
Talk to me about what.
What was tough?
What was the?
Was it tough with the capital T?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, it really was.
Because it was.
I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm now in myearly 60s and when I started in
my early 20s it was I was justassumed, whatever role I was in,
that I was somebody secretary.
If I was phoning up to find outwhere a meeting room was, who
(02:41):
who's secretary are, you Go andget the coffee.
If I was in a in a in a meetingroom and I mean there were, I
could tell you so many storieswe could spend 15 minutes just
on that.
But let me tell you one of themost horrendous.
And when I was offered the roleas Worldwide Communications
Director for Rolls Royce andBentley Motor Cards, as it was
then Bentley Motors, as it isnow, it had recently been
(03:04):
acquired by the Volkswagen Group.
So it was great.
I was so excited.
I'm a real car nut.
I've been working for Ford for10 years around the world and
this was a real challenge totake a brand, to take the
Bentley brand that was really ina lot of trouble and make
something of it.
So it was great opportunities.
I was saying yes, I was veryexcited as I was put my house on
(03:27):
market and a house up here,ready to go, ready to move up.
And then I had a phone call tosay would you make some of the
chief executive names chiefoperating officer, chief
executive and chair of theVolkswagen Motor Group wanted to
interview me.
Oh sorry, really, and why I wassuch a minion in comparison.
(03:53):
You know I was, I was nothing,I was so unimportant.
So anyway, I was I.
Okay, all right, you want totalk to me off.
We went and got to Germany, gotthe head offers, went up in the
lift, went across the corridorto another lift where there was
a guard with a gun, went up tothe boardroom drawer, went into
the boardroom and I'm thinkingthis is so surreal, this is just
(04:18):
so weird.
Anyway, he of course kept mewaiting nearly an hour and two
other members of the board camein, one of whom didn't speak any
English, and then he eventuallycame in and sat and started
asking me questions and I waswarned about him.
I must admit that he hadpiercing blue eyes and he would
use them just and say nothing.
(04:40):
And he was asking me a lot ofquestions.
And he said Sarah, I understandyou have twin daughters and
they are two years old.
I mean, yeah, seven.
Do you not think that makes youa bad mother.
I have a question for you.
(05:02):
You can imagine I was ready togo absolutely vertical.
I thought what planet are we onhere?
What planets are we on?
And I won't bore you with thedetails, but suffice to say that
when he said, do you have anyquestions for me, I got one in.
That was incrediblyembarrassing for him and I
(05:22):
walked out thinking justice wasdone.
But yeah, quite extraordinary.
So yes, the automotive industryhad an awful lot of challenges
and one of the things, one ofthe reasons I do a huge amount
of mentoring now, is that inthose days it wasn't even a
thing.
It probably wasn't even in thedictionary, to be honest, and I
would have benefited so much byhaving somebody who'd been
(05:45):
through that, who could guide me, who could help me, who could
say that's a battle worthfighting.
That one just leave it.
So yeah, lots and lots ofinteresting, amazing stories and
I mean I had a great time, butI did have two young children.
I don't know if it was the job,but not long after I started
(06:05):
the job, I ended up gettingdivorced.
I was a single parent in a verybig role and there came a time
where I thought can't do thisanymore.
So I was offered redundancy.
I thought, yes, great, took itand that was a one and only time
I've had with my daughtersActually, there were two but
this one where they did thattwin thing and I sat down with
(06:29):
them and I said, right, mommy'sgot an opportunity.
We're going to leave here, I cango and get another big job and
we can have the house and theholidays and the cars, or we can
get rid of all of it by reallysmall house somewhere, and I
can't promise you there'll beany holidays or anything.
But I will take it to school inthe morning and I will pick you
(06:51):
up from school in the afternoon, which I hadn't done for the
whole lives.
They would have been four bythis time.
Five, six, five, six, six.
By then I said go and talk toeach other and then we'll have
another discussion.
They stopped, they looked ateach other, turned to me and
said mommy, we want you.
End of discussion.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So, yes, I didn't go into another corporate role and
just to have interest, before wekind of unpack some of that
conversation there, what was thesecond twin moment you talked
about there being?
They did it twice, the twinthing.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Actually, the other one was an odd one.
Actually, this was when theywere very small.
They would have been two, theycould talk about two and there
were very different parts of thehouse and we had Quetely Castle
.
In those days, this one, we'rea whole family.
And I heard one of some screamwho was down one end of the
(07:46):
house.
The other one was upstairs withme a hand to head and said oh,
oh, my head, and the other onehad hit her head.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Wow, wow, and we'll come back to your girls in a
minute because they've got.
They're very much in the worldof sport, and in different ways,
but we'll come back to thatbecause they know sport is
really important to you.
But what were the superpowersthat you honed to overcome some
of the challenges that you hadin that, I suppose, that very
(08:17):
male dominated industry, theinterview situation that you had
, going through divorce,deciding to take this different,
what would you say thatsuperpower that you brought to
the fore?
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I guess two things learning when to zip it because
my head there's a million thingsof just wanting to come from my
head straight out my mouth andlearning very early on when is
the right time to say something,when it's not.
I also learned how to use myeyes to say a lot more than my
(08:54):
mouth could say and to make itvery clear to somebody when what
they were saying was absolutelyIncorporate or wrong, when I
was not happy.
So Everybody really knows youwill tell you, they can tell,
they can read me like a book.
It's, it's all there, it's allin my face.
But it actually was a realadvantage when I was was in that
(09:14):
industry because people canrepeat back to you things you
have said.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Not so much so a senior look, you've given a love
within sort of the roles thatyou've had in particularly
automotive.
I can't imagine there was manywomen at very senior levels at
that time.
Did you see change during thattime or not to be?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
honest, no, no, not in the automotive industry while
I was there and the seniorpeople were always HR, pr,
communications and HR that theyreally weren't want anymore.
But actually now in my Runningmy own business, which I've been
doing with Mary and for nearly20 years now, we do a lot of
(09:55):
work in the automotive industryand it is changing.
It is definitely changing.
There.
There are far more engineerscoming through the system and
designers coming through thesystem who Nearly nearly there
and you talk about that.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Women don't quite and they're not stereotypical every
woman but, you know, don'talways really realize their own
potential or don't see it.
I have a million whatsappgroups and I see it every day.
When somebody puts a role in oran opportunity I almost see, or
a media opportunity, you seepeople almost like lean out
sometimes because they thinkthat imposter syndrome you
talked about earlier, you know,is that one of the reasons why
(10:31):
you got involved in women atboards to try and help and
support that whole kind ofunleashing the power of our
fantastic board ready women whojust don't realize it.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Well, one artist is two things actually.
It's one because Boards benefitwhen they have women on them.
So it's to the benefit of theboard and I could see that
through my career.
But also it is to encouragewomen.
You are needed out there, youhave the skills.
Sometimes they just need alittle, a little nudge.
Sometimes they just need aShort conversation with someone
(11:05):
like me or the many other womenare out there supporting women,
to say, okay, well, tell meabout this, okay, so what?
You've done that and you'vedone that really wow and okay.
So let's just have a look atthis job role and now tell me
why you're not the right personfor this.
And it's a lot of women do dothat.
(11:26):
Oh, no, no, no, I haven't.
They've listed all these thingsand I've only got any of them.
Well, I Promise you, the guywho's only got tourism will go
for the job.
And it is so important to thebenefit of younger women coming
through, to the girls who arestill at school, to the girls I
haven't even been born yet thatwe go out there and we that
(11:48):
we're brave and we say, okay,it's a big jump, I've got to
take a bit big breath, but justdo it and People like me are out
here to help you.
People have been sure peoplewho are older were here to help
you with, to give you theconfidence to to go out there
and apply for those board roles,because they need you and, yeah
(12:13):
, the world needs more women onboard.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
So I'm seeing a question about it and it strikes
me is, looking at yourbiography, that you are a Serial
either board advisor or orchair or vice chair.
From women in sport to salessharks, to Motherwell, cheshire
twins, troraciphon trust, cancerresearch, age UK, the list goes
on.
The list goes on and on and on.
(12:35):
Which is amazing Is that, isthat something that's very
intentional that you've you'vedone to go?
You know, actually one old canadd value and I want to be that
visible role model who is onboards.
It was that your plan.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
No, I must be absolutely honest.
I wish I could say yes, I wishI could say I was that
structured.
And no, just I mean to be clear, I'm not on all of those now
because, well, we'll come backto my mantra in a little while
but the one of them I was askedto be on and they just kind of
(13:09):
happened and sometimes I lookback and think, oh, how did that
happen?
But yeah, all of them I wasapproached for and Very happy to
, to put it, to say yeah, okay,let's go for it.
And with some of them I startedas as as trustee Twins trust.
I started as a volunteer.
I was volunteered for, oh,nearly 20 years and and with
(13:33):
about six years, eight years agonow, they came to me and said
would you consider coming ontothe board?
Because they wanted to gothrough a name change and I have
that skill set.
So, yeah, absolutely, I'd loveto.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
And is it ever too early to go and seek that board
position or trustee position?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
I'd say an ideal age to start thinking about it is
about 18.
And I do know 18 year olds whoare on boards, and that doesn't
mean it has to be BP shells fullmade company.
It can be a local charity thatyou're really passionate about,
the primary school you went to,that you know firsthand the
(14:18):
things that could be improvedupon.
There are so many charitableopportunities and what I would
say to everybody out there thatyou can learn so much from going
on a board.
And it starts small.
If you are concerned about it,and if you're not and you've got
a lot of experience, then go inat the top, go for the big
(14:39):
boards.
But yeah, I would urge everybodyto consider it from a much
earlier age, becausetraditionally what's happened is
people like me.
You get to your 50s and think,oh, actually I'm going to do it,
I want to give something back.
But actually, what I would sayto all younger women out there,
it's not only about getting back.
(15:00):
You get so much from it and itcan really help your career.
So it's a strategic, good movetoo.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I could agree more, as an amazing woman called Mayor
Ellis.
When I first met her, right atthe start of my Northern Power
Women journey, she was on, Ithink she was one of the
youngest trustees ever for GirlGuiding and she was also on the
board of our local theatre, orPin Lancaster, and she was on
the board of our local theatreand she was the one who always
made me believe that, you know,actually this is something, you
know, we should be encouragingat an early age.
(15:31):
Almost these things, that sothings that you never learn in
school, isn't it?
But anyway it is, it's thosethings.
But you now head up your ownagency, which we talked about
before and very much heavilyfocused around training.
Coaching and communication iskey to you.
Talk to us about that.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Yes, it is key.
And actually I was so luckybecause I went to a big
networking event which wouldhave been 20 years ago and the
keynote speaker was Maryn Myatt,who was then a broadcast
journalist.
She fronted Northwesternitespecifically and we had to chat
afterwards and I said, oh, let'shave a cup of coffee sometime.
(16:11):
So a couple of months later wehad a cup of coffee which lasted
four hours.
Oh, we can do this, we can dothis, we can do this.
So always have that cup ofcoffee, you know.
Then take every opportunity.
And we realized that with mystrategic comms background and
her practical journalismbackground she'd worked in radio
, television, on local andnational news.
(16:33):
We had a huge amount to offerin terms of supporting
organizations big, small, mediumwith strategic communications,
teaching how to do television,how to do interviews, how to do
presentations and, honestly,we've never looked back.
We definitely are ying and yang.
(16:54):
She's just the most wonderfulperson in the world and various,
calm, very patient, and I'mneither of those things and just
to give us, I know you talkabout public speaking and that's
one of your things you verymuch talk about.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
What are those three top tips that you talk about
that you would offer for anyoneout there who thinks, oh, I
can't do that, I'll leave that,I'll stay in the audience?
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Why would you miss the opportunity to have your
voice heard?
I can assure you that 99.9% ofthe population are terrified, so
you're not alone.
The person up there that lookslike the swan gliding along is
not Maryna will tell you.
Before she went on televisionto present to eight, nine
million people, she wasabsolutely broken.
(17:39):
She was stirring up in theloose every evening before she
went on.
But once you get into it andyou get used to it, is it great
fun.
It is really good fun and itgives you the opportunity again,
if you're in whatever stage ofyour career you're in, to be in
(18:01):
the spotlight and to have yourvoice heard.
And you're just out there havinga chat with people.
That's what I would say.
Find some friendly faces, takea couple of deep breaths
Breathing is so important.
Find some friendly faces outthere and chat to them as if it
was your new home, yourneighbour.
Over the fence You're standingover the cup of tea or glass of
(18:22):
wine.
Just have a chat.
That's really all it is.
And the most important thing Iwould say is any form of
communication is authenticity.
Don't try to be somethingyou're not, because people see
through you and then they won'tlisten to you.
So be you.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
It's authentic, isn't it?
It's be exactly you.
Don't try and be somebody else,because actually they're all
taken.
Let's jump back into the sortof where we had probably a good
20 minute conversation before wepress record today about sports
.
We talked about your twins,your twin girls and about
women's rugby.
The importance of sport is so,so vital.
(19:04):
It's always something I've beenreally passionate about and the
disconnectivity between sportdisengaging with sport in the
early age, and belief andconfidence and all that kind of
things.
You've got a differentexperience, haven't you, with
your girls at different sides ofthe spectrum in sport.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I do.
So they, as I said, they'reidentical twin girls and they
both play rugby and however hardI've tried to get them doing
different things, they've alwaysswung back around and ended up
doing the same thing.
So they both started playingtouch rugby and play touch rugby
(19:43):
for England, and then they bothstarted to get into contact
rugby.
Well, one did, the other onefollowed a little bit later and
they really enjoyed it.
So one of them they've gotAmerican passport.
So one of them decided that shewas going to go to America to
coach, to play, to hopefully getup to the level of playing for
(20:06):
USA International team.
The other one stayed here.
She played at Waterloo over inLiverpool.
Waterloo Women's Rugby Club didvery well there and then Sail
Sharks was given a place in thePremiership in the Allianz
Premiership, as it was thenthree and a half years ago and
(20:28):
so she moved over there andmoved over to Sail and very, who
played there for a couple ofyears.
We had lockdown and all therest of it and then was very
quickly picked up by USAInternational team.
Meanwhile the other one, who hadgone to America, in her third
match, smashed her knee toceases.
I had to go over, bring herhome for major surgery.
(20:50):
She was off for a year.
She decided to go back and playagain.
I think it was about threemonths after she started again,
she did the same thing again.
So she was off for another yearand the most dreadful three
hour operation I mean the soulsings awful.
I never played rugby again.
(21:11):
And then she got better andthen she's decided actually I
will play rugby again andhonestly, this is part of the
joy of rugby.
She said look, you do whateveryou want to do.
We went to her first match back.
She was supposed to play for 20minutes but she said no, I'm
staying on.
She played for 60 minutes, cameoff and I've never seen a grin
like it.
(21:31):
She was so happy.
The buzz of it was incredibleand in that one snapshot moment
I thought this is what sport isabout.
This is what sport can give toyoung girls, to young women, to
older women.
They're playing rugby as well,by the way, they're playing
rugby.
So then she got back and then,unfortunately, last year she had
(21:54):
a very nasty concussion.
So she was off for a long timeand she came back again.
And then 10 days ago she wasplaying again and she completely
slapped her collarbone, soshe's now off work for over a
month, she can't drive for sixweeks, and so on and so forth.
Meanwhile, the other one isCaptain of Sail Sharks Women and
(22:18):
if she's selected which we'reall hoping she will be she'll be
going off to I think it'sAustralia for the next USA
International Tour.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Wow, wow.
It's just different stories,isn't it?
We talk about career journeysconstantly.
We talk about the world ofsport, but I think it's the
smile that you talk that I bringto your daughter.
So, even though I know she'shaving that challenging time,
this is where you've got to digdeep on the resilience and get
some of the superpower out,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (22:47):
But also the other thing I would say that Rosely
brings.
Any sport, any team sportbrings.
So the first week she was inexcruciating agony.
She couldn't move.
She was her right arm, herright collarbone, so she
couldn't move her arm, so shecouldn't do anything for herself
and there was not a momentthere wasn't one of those girls
that she plays rugby with.
They're by her side, making hermeals, feeding her, showering
(23:13):
her, helping her.
And that's the other thing thatteam sport brings is this
incredible bond, this friendshipthat all I know with many of
those girls last forever.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
So just talk to me finally about you mentioned
earlier.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You talked about your mantra yeah, yes, my mantra.
Now, this is something thattook me far too long to learn,
and this is about all thevarious things I did.
I suddenly my mantra is reallyabout.
We all heard it put on youroxygen mask first before you see
to other people, and I suddenlyfound myself doing too many
(23:47):
things all at the same time andI wasn't able to care for others
, let alone myself, and I hadthis conversation with one of my
daughters the other day stopsaying yes to everything.
Think before you say yes.
Is it something that you wantto do that talks to your heart?
Is it something that willbenefit you?
(24:09):
If so, say yes, but don't justkeep saying yes to everything,
because looking after yourselffirst is the most important
place.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
I literally think you're talking to me right now,
Sarah.
Who's put you up to this?
Who's put you up to this?
I could talk to you forever.
We've gone on a journey haveaway from working in the
automotive industry to bring inup an amazing young family, to
supporting them on their careerventures into the world of sport
, to being a serial charity,trustee, board members across a
(24:41):
number of different disciplines,setting your own business up
and, just quite frankly, beingkickass.
Sarah, thank you.
I keep playing rugby.
That didn't say that in the bio.
Oh, I will.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I will.
I know I forgot about that one.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Sarah, thank you so much.
It's been an absolute delightto converse with you today.
Thank you for all those toptips.
I'm literally scribbling as wego along, but thank you so much.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Another amazing role model ofthe Northern Power.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Women podcast.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
Thank you so much indeed,Simone.
I was just so thrilled, sothank you.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Oh, I thank all of you for listening.
I'm sure you will be totallymotivated and inspired by Sarah
and her stories, and now I can'twait to chat to the twins too,
because what a story and journeythey've been on Just phenomenal
.
So please stay connected witheverything we do on our socials
on North Power Women on Twitterand Northern Power Women on all
the others and sign up to ourdigital platform, wearepowernet.
(25:42):
It's the home of everything wedo, from our podcast to our
webinars, to the awards, to ourvirtual power-up, speed
networking and mentoring that wedo.
It's a world that we want topass on, pay it forward.
We want to be a version ofSarah every day, giving it back,
passing on skills and knowledge.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
My name's Simone.
This is the Northern PowerWomen podcast and that's what
goes on.
(26:02):
Media production.
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