June 9, 2025 • 30 mins
The brilliant Lisa Allen and Jen Hardy from Shakespeare North join the We Are PoWEr Podcast to explore how theatre can be a poWErful force for healing, inclusion, and community.
From growing up in youth theatre to building careers rooted in creativity and connection, Lisa and Jen share how early role models, big dreams, and bold networking led them to where they are today. They open up about the imposter syndrome they’ve faced, the magic of mentorship, and why a chatty café or a board game can be just as poWErful as a play.
Discover how Shakespeare North is engaging with young people who’ve never set foot in a theatre and creating a safe, joyful space where confidence grows and voices are heard.
Chapters:
0:00 Welcome to We Are Power Podcast
0:48 Introducing Shakespeare North Theatre
5:36 Career Paths in Theatre Arts
12:02 Theatre as Community Catalyst
19:16 Audience Diversity and Access
23:14 Inclusive Productions and Future Vision
28:18 Training as a Clown and Closing Thoughts
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast.
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(00:21):
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This is where you can hearstories from all of our awards
alumni and stay up to date witheverything.
Mpw Awards and we Are PowerHello, hello and welcome to the
(00:48):
podcast.
I am delighted this week to bejoined not just one, but two
amazing individuals from theShakespeare North Theatre Only
been open two and a bit years.
Are we, yes, moving into ourthird year?
Yeah, jen Hardy and Lisa Allen,welcome to the podcast this
week.
Thank you so much, and you wereboth newish into this amazing
venue.
(01:08):
Tell us about it.
Can you tell us in yourhighlights about, uh, the
wonderful Shakespeare North?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, like I said, we're into our third year I
think it's July, our thirdbirthday, isn't it, um?
And the theatre itself isprobably over 20 years in the
making.
So a group of academics cametogether a long time ago and
thought it would be a great ideato bring back the playhouse,
which obviously was there was anoriginal playhouse in Prescott
(01:37):
many years ago and it's takenthat long really to get the
resources and the fundingtogether and and to get um
everybody behind it.
And I think you know thecouncil really, really bought
into the idea and and realizedthat dream.
But everyone's been workingreally hard not me and you,
because we're quite new, but umcoasting, don't be saying that
(02:00):
we just come in.
We just come in and taken theglory.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
We've just taken the glory on the podcast.
It's all good.
And what have you learned somuch about it?
What do you love so much aboutit already?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I think for me, I so I'm in the learning and
engagement team and I trained asa teacher.
I do a lot of improvisedtheatre, I've done a lot of work
with young people who'veexperienced multiple traumas.
So I think this role in myfamily role from St Helens, so
it's in a space that's importantto me and it's a role that kind
of amalgamates all of thethings that I've done before it.
(02:40):
Just like you know maths,you've got those venn diagrams.
It's kind of shakespeare northsits right in the middle of that
for me.
Um, so I I mean, even when Iwent for the job, I hadn't like
I didn't tell anyone I was goingfor it, so I didn't think I'd
get it.
So even when I got it, I waslike it's not true till I
started, and then it wasn't truetill I did my first workshop.
(03:00):
And do you know what I mean?
It's one of those jobs that'slike a dream job and it's
actually as good as I thought itwould be oh, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
What about you?
Because you came from home,didn't you over in Manchester,
which is an amazing venue?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
yeah, no, I worked at home for three years before
coming.
I mean, I've worked in theatreand the arts for 30 years.
Um, I've always lovedShakespeare.
Probably a bit like you.
I had had a really brilliantEnglish teacher when I was
younger and she used to drive us.
She used to just get a minibusand drive us to Stratford every
year and probably wouldn't beable to do that now but, just
(03:37):
really instilled that love, notwithout a parent slip.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
No, no.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Just had that real love of Shakespeare from an
early age.
So, coming to, the specialthing about Shakespeare North is
the theatre.
Isn't it Like it's magic, it'sbeautiful when you walk into
that space.
I mean it's.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
You can just smell it .
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It makes the hairs stand up on your arms and it's
just a really magical space.
And what a gift that we havethat in the North, you know the
only cockpit theatre you knowoutside of london, and we've got
it there in prescott inknollsley, which is a real jewel
, I think.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah and I'm writing things.
It's a quarter of a millionvisitors so far, but only and
sort of is it 10?
I'd never ever visited atheatre in advance.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah and more so with the young people that we work
with.
So when we get school groups orcolleges or universities, way
more than 10% of those youngpeople have never been into a
space like that, let alone intoa theatre.
So that figure is, I would say,quite a mild estimate, because
(04:45):
we normally record an adult to abuying ticket.
So when we think about theyoung people that we work with,
I mean I had a school in theother week from just down the
road and I think three childrenin that class of 30 had never
been to a theatre and that wasthe empire to see a panto.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
And there's a whole quotation.
Isn't it that if you love whatyou do, you will never work a
day in your life?
And it feels like you've notworked for anything for the last
seven months, have you either?
I don't know about that, Can Itell?
On the bags under my eyes.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Oh, you're just covering up now.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
What is it that you know?
You've talked about the smellof the theatre.
You know where you are.
Like culture, you worked in inthis industry.
For if you always worked in.
In always worked in the arts,yeah how did you know you wanted
to do that was?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
it, um, I think from a very early age I wanted to be
an actor, um, and I was in youththeatre, right, you know um,
youth theatre is where I sort offound my, my love for theatre.
I was at the Octagon YouthTheatre in Bolton yeah um, it's
just always something like mymum always took us to galleries
(05:54):
and took us to, uh, you know,shows at the Palace Theatre, and
we just I was just lucky reallyto be exposed to the arts.
I suppose my mum you know sheshe painted, so she was a bit of
an artist herself.
I think it's what you'reexposed to, isn't it?
It's what you've got access toas a youngster.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
We talk about visible role models, don't we?
And where you you grow up, andyou and that enables, but did
you ever think you were going tobe able to do that for a living
right?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I just never wanted to do anything else really and I
was just looking, I think,because I'd been in a youth
theatre.
I was in a theatre, so I knewthat there were jobs.
And that's not to say that Ihaven't always felt like an
imposter, because I have,because the arts is also a
little bit, can be a little bitkind of secretive, I suppose,
(06:47):
and I have felt that, you know,in my career.
I don't feel like that atShakespeare North, interestingly
, but maybe that's because theteam are not like that, are they
?
It feels very differentactually at Shakespeare North.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
How did you get over those moments Because I was like
almost like a top tip, a tipand a hack, if you like?
How did you over those momentsBecause I was like it was like a
top tip, a tip and a hack, ifyou like?
How did you, when you had thatmoment where you thought, do I
feel like I shouldn't be here orI'm good enough?
How did you counter that?
Was it through mentorship?
Was it advice?
Was it just breathing in anddoing the Wonder Woman pose?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I think deep down I in the Wonder Woman pose, I
think deep down I always knewthat I had a right to be there.
And you know, just becauseyou're you don't talk the same
as everybody else or you knowyou're not from that background,
it doesn't mean that you're notmeant to be there.
And actually I just knuckleddown and proved it through hard
(07:42):
work and the things that I wasdoing.
Um, and most of my work hasbeen it's not the normal route
through to chief exec.
Most of my work has beenparticipatory work and work with
communities, so I had a goodbalance of going for a brew in a
community centre and what aboutyou, jen?
Speaker 1 (08:05):
what was your?
Because I we always talk thaton this podcast irrespective of
what career, what sector, whatlevel you're at, nobody has one
set path.
There is no one likestraightforward path, is there?
What was your adventure?
Well, I was like, because Isense it was.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I was obsessed from being a child with being a
teacher, like to the point thatmy poor mum would have like
homework to do set by me andstuff and like I was just, how
did she do?
Oh, she's very clever, she's amentor.
She hates that I say it, so I'msaying Sorry, mum.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Sorry, Gemma.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
She's the lizard and she's brilliant, but yeah, so I
was obsessed with being ateacher, um, and then I became a
teacher, I trained at Hope Uniand then I was like, oh, this is
a lot of admin, isn't it?
this is a lot of like there'snot a lot of time with the
children, there's a lot of timedoing all this stuff and
battling the bureaucracy of itand that kind of I guess
(09:05):
toxicity of like competitionwithin a school and things.
I was just like that is not forme, um, but I took all of those
skills and I did the leap and Iwent and worked in children's
centres, um, and loved it and Iwas doing community and
volunteering, outreach andgetting people who'd never been
into work back into work and Ijust loved it and I was running
(09:27):
workshops for adults.
And then I got intoimprovisation because I went to
see a friend on the show and itwasn't very good and I thought I
could do that better.
Um, uh, so I was like, right, Ibetter go and it then.
So I did improv and then fellin love with that and then I was
like there must be a way to doboth of these things together
(09:52):
and, a bit like you, I just kindof found a way to do it, I
guess.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
With as a will, as a way, right.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, and like if there was an opportunity, you
kind of try and make it foryourself, don't you?
You send out cold calls andemails to people and you make
mates with people and, um, yeah,I moved back to Liverpool in
2021 because I'd lived in theMidlands and I was like, right,
when I move back, I'm going tomeet every creative that I can,
every director, every producer,and I met Siobhan, who works in
(10:23):
Shakespeare North, becamefriends with Siobhan and said if
there's ever a job, come up,will you let me know?
Speaker 1 (10:29):
and she said yeah, and she did so you just and
that's the power of you knowpeople think about.
We talk a lot about networkingand it's it's not about throwing
business cards at each other,is it?
It's about building thoserelationships, building those
connections and you find, youfind the real ones, and you've
been part of those communitiesand I know I love that.
One of the core values you liveby I um, lisa is that whole
(10:51):
theatre must be for and by thecommunity.
Yeah, that's key for you, isn'tit?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
yeah, absolutely, and that's the work I've always
done, um and that, and that workisn't always front and centre
in theatres, but I really feellike if you're going to build
something like Shakespeare Northin a place like Prescott and
Knowlesley, then it kind of hasto be.
That has to be our reason forbeing.
(11:17):
And actually everybody thatworks at Shakespeare North
really cares about thatconnection to community and it
is as passionate as we are.
And you don't find thateverywhere you know.
Normally, or sometimes theparticipation department feels a
bit like a tag on and it's notlike proper theatre, but that's
(11:40):
not the case at ShakespeareNorth at all and we all really
believe that that is a place forpeople and it's building that
community within that.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, and I think there must have been some real
successes and surprises alongthe way, and I know I know you
guys are new into the role butyou will have inherited great
stories and some great stuffthat's happened.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Oh yeah, and like from like small projects.
So we do.
We work with the council inholidays around holiday
activities and food.
Lots of organisations aroundthe city do it.
But we started doing that lastsummer and from that they kind
of grew a group who they justcome back into the theatre to
(12:23):
charge their phone, to go to thetoilet after school to see more
of them who works in theengagement team and and then
there was an opportunity thereto to work with those young
people and we ended up gettingsome uh money from the national
lottery and the heritage fund todo a project.
And then from that we'vecreated a group called raise
(12:43):
your voice on a tuesday andthey're they come in every
tuesday, but they'll come in inthe week to charge the phone, to
ask how our weeks are going, doyou know?
So they're young people whobefore us would never have
stepped into a theatre.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
It's that place of belonging, isn't it?
Yeah, that's what it.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
You know, that's what happens, doesn't it?
They call it the Shakespeare orour Shakespeare.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, has it not been shortened yet?
Come on, we're in the north ofEngland, everything gets.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Yeah, I know we're just up to the shakespeare.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Now we're shaking off sometimes, um, what part has
theatre got in that?
That real catalyst for change?
You know, you think it's notactors on a stage, it's not that
behind the scene.
It's more than that, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
so much more it is more than that, and the social
value of yeah, I've actuallyparticipating in something, not
just coming to watch somethingand the social value of, yeah,
of actually participating insomething, not just coming to
watch something.
There's value in both of thosethings, of course, because you
can see something that resonateswith you and it can create a
dialogue.
But if you actually feel likeyou're taking part in that or
you are doing something that isa really safe environment and a
(13:52):
way for you to work somethingout that is affecting your
community or your life, thentheatre is the ideal or the arts
in general is is the ideal toolto do that, because it does
provide that safe environment towork things out a little bit
it's interesting because it thesense to me about what you're
part of and what you're drivingand leading and growing and
(14:15):
educating on is it's innovation.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
You are innovating through theatre, through
conversation, through community,through performance, and
sometimes we talk about it aspart of our awards.
We have an inclusive innovationcategory that we've been it's
been really hard to educate onbecause people think of lab
coats and drones when you thinkof innovation when this is this
is human-centered peopleinnovation, and it's so
(14:39):
important.
The fact that you, within ashort period of time, have
created the sense of belonging.
That's how you buildcommunities, that's how you
create safe places, enablepeople to flourish.
I've got goose pimples.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
I'm not gonna lie.
You don't know what you don'tknow do you so there's pockets
of communities who would neverimagine that a theatre was for
them and I think even the factthat we are open most days from
11am and we've got chatty cafesgoing on, board game sessions,
shared reason in associationwith the reader.
(15:12):
Do you know?
We've got things that happen inthe daytime which technically
they've got nothing to do with,like a play or theatre but, they
do.
They have everything to do withthat, because you're giving
people their space back, aren'tyou?
Speaker 1 (15:29):
yeah, and that's me sort of re-quoting.
I love this.
I feel like this is a if I wasbrave enough to have a tattoo,
which I'm not, but you know,it's got to be for and by the
community.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, yeah and that's me sort of re-quoting I love
this.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I feel like this is a if I was brave enough to have a
tattoo which I'm not, but youknow it's got to be for and by
the community.
And that's where that innovationis taking place, in front of
your eyes.
And you talked, lisa, aboutsocial value and social impact.
That's something that we as anorganisation are kind of a joke,
because it was one of the bigauditors.
One of the big fours came,simone.
The stuff that you're doingaround connectivity and creating
opportunities and this, thissort of enabling and building
(15:57):
social capital, social value.
It's just several years ago andI'm like, oh okay, yeah, yeah,
and I just didn't quiteappreciate what it was.
I thought it was anotherbuzzword, another phrase, and I
think that for me, social valuenow is is really like front and
center and so important in thatevery organisation is driving it
and has to drive it.
And I think what we have toreally look at now is what that
(16:19):
social impact is now.
And you're doing that, aren'tyou?
You know, on a day-by-day basis.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, I mean, I've always done it.
You know, when you talk aboutinnovation, it's like I just
feel like it's been here forever, like I just feel like it's
been here forever.
And there are lots of theatrepractitioners that we can, you
know, look back on and think youknow that socially engaged
practice has always been there,but I think we've perhaps it's
(16:48):
become less important over theyears.
And now, I think, just becauseof where we are and and and who
is on our doorstep, I thinkwe've got a really unique
opportunity to just really shoutabout it a bit more and to
prove how you know how greatthat is for a community, not
(17:08):
just in making people feel goodabout themselves but regenerate
in an area Like when you look atthe cultural driver in Prescott
being Shakespeare North, interms of that regeneration,
prescott looks completelydifferent to, you know, a few
years ago, before the theatrearrived.
(17:28):
And that high street, theregeneration of that high street
, for example, is you, you know,is proof that that culture is
really important actually andthat is that catalyst effect,
isn't it that?
Speaker 1 (17:40):
that is that multiplier effect that a borough
that has been one of the mostdeprived areas in in the city
region has regenerated bystorytelling, by community
building.
You know, you might think ofthat.
You don't hear this beingtalked about.
It gets frustrating sometimes.
You think of this as a thisparticular year, the north of
England.
We're so rich in culture, yeah.
(18:00):
It's so important, yeah, yet itcan get overlooked and not
invested in, yes, you know.
So what would you do if you hada magic wand?
Oh gosh, you, oh gosh.
You can have more than one.
You know, you can double uphere.
It's all good.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I think so on the drive here.
So me and Lisa don't get muchtime together in work because
I'm always up and down with agroup of young people and
working in a workshop and Lisa'strying to make sure that we've
got enough money and enoughpeople in the room that need to
be there to help us do that.
So it was really nice.
On the way here we werechatting about kind of what,
(18:40):
what are our passions and what,what drives us, and I think it's
.
It's less about having a magicwand and it's more about like
having knowing that you've gotthe right people with the right
skills and the right space to beable to do something which has,
like a future past you, pastyour role, because I mean and it
(19:00):
happens all the time withgrants and stuff, doesn't it?
It is 10 grand to a project andwe're always thinking what next
?
What next for those youngpeople?
Because we drop opportunitiesand then we take them away and
do you know?
That's the kind of fundingworld that we live in, whereas
actually, for me, the solutionor the magic wand, or whatever
you want to call it, isconsistency for young people and
(19:23):
a community who have so oftenhad here's an opportunity.
Well done, 2008's gone.
Now here's an opportunity forsomeone else.
So it's making sure that peoplefeel valued consistently, I
think.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And I think that opportunity, that ongoing
opportunity, is key, you know,and you have to be intentional
about it.
It can't have a life cyclebecause that can be so
destructive, can't it?
If not, so you know.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I mean Shakespeare North, regardless of who's
running it or who works in ithas to become part of the
scaffolding that sits around acommunity, and it's not about
funding streams.
You know, we could all sit hereand go yeah, we'd love another
hundred thousand pounds to dowhatever, but actually we don't
actually need it either, becausewe've got good people and we've
(20:08):
got communities and we justneed to start thinking a little
bit differently about how we usethose resources and how we
share what we've got, becausethere is no more money coming.
Actually, yeah, there's nomagic pot, is there?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
and some of the most important, like precious work
that we do like isn't the workthat brings in any revenue or
money, or do you know what Imean?
So, but it fills your heart,right, exactly.
So we've just done a projectwith old bridge, which, which is
an SEN school nearby, andthey're post-16 provision, so
they're kind of college sixthform students, and we had 12
(20:41):
students who I worked with for10 weeks and then they did a
showcase on Friday in ourtheatre space and they decorated
the space how they wanted.
With all of the work thatthey've been doing, they stood
up and said who they were, whatthey want to do in future.
Some of them read poetry thatthey've created.
Some of them are even standingup in front of an audience and
(21:02):
me reading on their behalf ortheir teacher reading on their
behalf.
It's a huge step.
Their parents were there.
These are parents who mightfear that their children are
never going to be able to gointo the big, wide world without
them.
So for me, that's the importantthing about what we do, not
necessarily the big, shiny shoes, which are brilliant, but
(21:25):
that's just the cherry on thetop.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
But that comes with intention and I think what
strikes me from both of you andit's interesting that you're
relatively new but reallyaccomplished in your roles
You've just had good like teambuilding time on the on the
journey over here, but itappears to me that this is an
environment, the culture of thisenvironment you've created
enables you literally takingyour whole self into work.
(21:47):
Yeah, everyone is welcome,everyone is inclusive.
You can play a board game, youcan come and say hi and have a
brew.
You can do you, be you, yeah,and that's that can be rare,
can't it?
When you think there's so muchspace out there, sometimes it's
not welcoming or inclusive.
Yet you have created thisbeautifully inclusive space and
it was the wonderful MichelleEagleton, who's a a broadcaster
(22:09):
and host and gets involved inour awards, and it was her,
probably just over, probablylast summer, when oh my gosh,
you need to.
It's her who connected me withyou guys, because we're talking
about you did an amazingperformance of Romeo and Juliet
with Grey Eye Theatre Companyyeah, and she just was.
She was so blown away.
Tell us about that.
I don't know that that wasbefore your time or not, but so
(22:31):
I just started on.
Hair passed it on to me andultimately, that's why we're
here now and watch this space.
We don't know where we're goingto go from here, right, yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
yeah, so Grey Eye are a um disabled, deaf and
neurodiverse theatre company whowe'd already done some work
with on various projects andstuff, but it was a
co-production.
So we do three co-productions ayear um with different uh
theatre companies and it was oneof the co-productions.
But Grey Eye had really workedwith the team around training.
(23:00):
So we'd had training around howto be inclusive, accessible and
understanding kind of variousdisabilities and things and
access needs.
So the production was reallylike built into the theatre.
All of their rehearsalshappened in the theatre.
We made sure that we developedresources that went alongside
the shows.
(23:21):
Us and the engagement teamchanged some of our workshops to
meet the needs of kind of thetheatre company and what they
were doing and stuff.
And it was just a joyful show,even though it was Romeo and
Juliet.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
It's a shock how everyone dies in what I mean.
Yeah, it's shock hard, everyonedies in the end, but it's
joyful.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Spoiler alert I know sorry, not ready to buy now but
that, young people, you knowthis has changed your world from
wanting to be a teacher orbeing a teacher, having the
bureaucracy.
Yeah, this comes back to thedream job again, doesn't it?
Oh?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
yeah, how good that's like I get to watch like a
dress rehearsal and I'm paid aspart of my job to watch a dress
rehearsal Like that's mad to me.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
And it is that culture piece.
And you know, when you comeinto an organisation, you're
assessing that culture, aren'tyou?
You know how have you been ableto bring the Lisa factor into
it as well?
Because it is about leadership.
That's a we're coining that.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Oh, are you there?
You go take it.
Yeah, that's your next tattooyeah.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I mean, I feel like I'm just at the start of that
journey really, and I don't knowwhether you know what impact
you're having, because I'm notsomebody who asks for that kind
of feedback either really.
But I've just presented afive-year vision to all the
staff, the board and all of ourvolunteers and the council, and
(24:49):
I feel like it went down reallywell and I got some really good
questions and feedback.
It went down really well and Igot some really good questions
and feedback, and a lot of that,of course, was, you know,
talking about what we're goingto be taking out of the building
in terms of communitydevelopment work, because you
can't just open a lovelybuilding and then expect
everyone to come in.
You know, we've still got a lotof work to do.
(25:10):
It's great.
But you know, I was walkingaround Kirby Market the other
week and no one's heard ofShakespeare North, so there's
work to be done.
But I felt like it landedreally well and, um, people
appreciated it and it's whatpeople wanted, I think so we'll
see.
But yeah, but I walked into themost welcoming space ever.
(25:33):
You, you know people inManchester talk about how
welcoming Shakespeare North is,so that's nothing to do with me.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
That's across boundaries, there, isn't it?
That's all them I was lookingto just walk into that, so yeah,
and what are you excited about,gem?
Because I, a little birdie,tells me that someone's about to
train to be a clown.
Of course you are.
Yeah, course, obviously, isthat part of the appraisal was
(26:03):
that?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
tell me about that.
Yeah, part of the probation?
Um, no, so I, um, I applied forthe arts councils developing
your creative practice fund, um,which they do, I think, two
streams a year.
Yeah, um, for individualartists.
So apply for money, not with anend goal of like a show or
anything, it's just to developyourself as an artist.
Um, on any other job I was in,wouldn't?
(26:26):
They wouldn't give me the timeto do that, you know, I mean,
they wouldn't give me theflexibility, um, but when I
spoke to ivana, who's my boss,the head of engagement, she was
like, yeah, do you need helpwith it?
Like, what do you need?
So, yeah, I'm trying to developmyself as a spontaneous theatre
maker.
I do a lot of improv, butclowning sits so comfortably
(26:49):
alongside that.
So I am going to London for twoweeks in June to do how To Be A
Stupid by an amazing, amazingclient practitioner called
DeCastro.
So, and the theatre were like,what do you?
How can we help?
What can we do?
When you come back, like, whatwould?
What does that look like foryou?
And I mean, imagine being ateacher and going and doing that
(27:12):
.
They, they'd be like, yeah, buthave you done your marking?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Do you?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
know.
So it's yeah, it's a veryexciting opportunity.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Wow, I mean, that is that's something for the
portfolio, isn't it?
I'm not going to.
At least we'll have somethingup our sleeve, but we'll make it
.
What are you most excited aboutgoing?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
forward.
Oh, I'm excited abouteverything.
There's so many opportunities.
I think Prescott as a place, Ireally I'm really interested in
what that um visitor experiencecan look like in the next five
years, really kind of leaninginto looking at further
investment, further regeneration, all driven, of course, by
(27:51):
culture.
And then I just really wantit's so magical that theatre I
would just really love, even ifthey're not coming to see a show
but just coming in to see thattheatre.
I want everybody in Knowsley tojust have seen it, just been in
and had a look.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
You need to get knocking on them doors.
Hopefully, well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I am not adverse to knocking on doors.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And Jen, what advice would you give to your, your
younger self?
Someone listening out theretoday is going um, I'm here.
I thought I wanted to do this,but I want to be a clown.
No, no, you don't.
I want to be me.
I want to go and be in a spacewhere I can be me.
How?
Because Lisa's the magic makermaking the culture, retaining
and and and building the culture.
But how can you?
(28:37):
Someone out there going?
Oh, I don't think I can everhave that opportunity.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
I think there's always someone who's willing to
give you advice and help you,and just reaching out to women
who have done similar or doingsimilar, like the amount of
people that I've got.
You know what I'm doing thisapplication.
Can you help me?
Um, like Alice, who works forRubber Shakespeare Company, sat
with me for hours and helped mewith my application.
(29:02):
She didn't need to do that.
Like I'm going to bought her apint, but you know what I mean
that's like.
So I think currency, that it isgood currency um, but just reach
out to people and there'll besomeone who's either been there,
they've done it, they've failedat it, they've succeeded
that'll give you advice.
And also, like, you'reinfinitely more interesting than
(29:23):
you can ever imagine and you'reprobably more talented than you
think.
So, like, especially as women,we don't believe those things.
So it's just like you said,knowing it in your gut, even if
you don't feel it every day.
And just your words arepowerful, aren't they?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
if you tell yourself something every day, you're more
likely to believe it and Ithink what you've just said
there which I can't repeatbecause it's too many phrases,
but that's that there and Lisa,your philosophy about you know
built I'm gonna have to read itnow built for and by the
community.
They're my tote bags, they'rethe things that you want on your
tote bag and your t-shirtmoment, and I hope to see those
(29:58):
not just around the streets ofPrescott and wider, but everyone
coming through the doors andequally, where you're taking
that message out, becausethere's so much that can be
learned by this amazing industry.
Look at you, the smiliestpeople like the happiest, the
proudest people.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
I'm looking forward to comingover.
I'm looking forward to seeingthe result of the one person
(30:22):
show.
I'm looking forward to seeinghow we can create opportunities,
because we can allintentionally work together to
create opportunities for others,and ask people for help is also
a big shout out.
Thank you, lisa.
Thank you, gem, for joining me.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
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Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
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(00:21):
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Mpw Awards and we Are PowerHello, hello and welcome to the
(00:48):
podcast.
I am delighted this week to bejoined not just one, but two
amazing individuals from theShakespeare North Theatre Only
been open two and a bit years.
Are we, yes, moving into ourthird year?
Yeah, jen Hardy and Lisa Allen,welcome to the podcast this
week.
Thank you so much, and you wereboth newish into this amazing
venue.
(01:08):
Tell us about it.
Can you tell us in yourhighlights about, uh, the
wonderful Shakespeare North?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Well, like I said, we're into our third year I
think it's July, our thirdbirthday, isn't it, um?
And the theatre itself isprobably over 20 years in the
making.
So a group of academics cametogether a long time ago and
thought it would be a great ideato bring back the playhouse,
which obviously was there was anoriginal playhouse in Prescott
(01:37):
many years ago and it's takenthat long really to get the
resources and the fundingtogether and and to get um
everybody behind it.
And I think you know thecouncil really, really bought
into the idea and and realizedthat dream.
But everyone's been workingreally hard not me and you,
because we're quite new, but umcoasting, don't be saying that
(02:00):
we just come in.
We just come in and taken theglory.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
We've just taken the glory on the podcast.
It's all good.
And what have you learned somuch about it?
What do you love so much aboutit already?
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I think for me, I so I'm in the learning and
engagement team and I trained asa teacher.
I do a lot of improvisedtheatre, I've done a lot of work
with young people who'veexperienced multiple traumas.
So I think this role in myfamily role from St Helens, so
it's in a space that's importantto me and it's a role that kind
of amalgamates all of thethings that I've done before it.
(02:40):
Just like you know maths,you've got those venn diagrams.
It's kind of shakespeare northsits right in the middle of that
for me.
Um, so I I mean, even when Iwent for the job, I hadn't like
I didn't tell anyone I was goingfor it, so I didn't think I'd
get it.
So even when I got it, I waslike it's not true till I
started, and then it wasn't truetill I did my first workshop.
(03:00):
And do you know what I mean?
It's one of those jobs that'slike a dream job and it's
actually as good as I thought itwould be oh, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
What about you?
Because you came from home,didn't you over in Manchester,
which is an amazing venue?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
yeah, no, I worked at home for three years before
coming.
I mean, I've worked in theatreand the arts for 30 years.
Um, I've always lovedShakespeare.
Probably a bit like you.
I had had a really brilliantEnglish teacher when I was
younger and she used to drive us.
She used to just get a minibusand drive us to Stratford every
year and probably wouldn't beable to do that now but, just
(03:37):
really instilled that love, notwithout a parent slip.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
No, no.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Just had that real love of Shakespeare from an
early age.
So, coming to, the specialthing about Shakespeare North is
the theatre.
Isn't it Like it's magic, it'sbeautiful when you walk into
that space.
I mean it's.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
You can just smell it .
Speaker 2 (03:56):
It makes the hairs stand up on your arms and it's
just a really magical space.
And what a gift that we havethat in the North, you know the
only cockpit theatre you knowoutside of london, and we've got
it there in prescott inknollsley, which is a real jewel
, I think.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah and I'm writing things.
It's a quarter of a millionvisitors so far, but only and
sort of is it 10?
I'd never ever visited atheatre in advance.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Yeah and more so with the young people that we work
with.
So when we get school groups orcolleges or universities, way
more than 10% of those youngpeople have never been into a
space like that, let alone intoa theatre.
So that figure is, I would say,quite a mild estimate, because
(04:45):
we normally record an adult to abuying ticket.
So when we think about theyoung people that we work with,
I mean I had a school in theother week from just down the
road and I think three childrenin that class of 30 had never
been to a theatre and that wasthe empire to see a panto.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
And there's a whole quotation.
Isn't it that if you love whatyou do, you will never work a
day in your life?
And it feels like you've notworked for anything for the last
seven months, have you either?
I don't know about that, Can Itell?
On the bags under my eyes.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Oh, you're just covering up now.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
What is it that you know?
You've talked about the smellof the theatre.
You know where you are.
Like culture, you worked in inthis industry.
For if you always worked in.
In always worked in the arts,yeah how did you know you wanted
to do that was?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
it, um, I think from a very early age I wanted to be
an actor, um, and I was in youththeatre, right, you know um,
youth theatre is where I sort offound my, my love for theatre.
I was at the Octagon YouthTheatre in Bolton yeah um, it's
just always something like mymum always took us to galleries
(05:54):
and took us to, uh, you know,shows at the Palace Theatre, and
we just I was just lucky reallyto be exposed to the arts.
I suppose my mum you know sheshe painted, so she was a bit of
an artist herself.
I think it's what you'reexposed to, isn't it?
It's what you've got access toas a youngster.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
We talk about visible role models, don't we?
And where you you grow up, andyou and that enables, but did
you ever think you were going tobe able to do that for a living
right?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I just never wanted to do anything else really and I
was just looking, I think,because I'd been in a youth
theatre.
I was in a theatre, so I knewthat there were jobs.
And that's not to say that Ihaven't always felt like an
imposter, because I have,because the arts is also a
little bit, can be a little bitkind of secretive, I suppose,
(06:47):
and I have felt that, you know,in my career.
I don't feel like that atShakespeare North, interestingly
, but maybe that's because theteam are not like that, are they
?
It feels very differentactually at Shakespeare North.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
How did you get over those moments Because I was like
almost like a top tip, a tipand a hack, if you like?
How did you over those momentsBecause I was like it was like a
top tip, a tip and a hack, ifyou like?
How did you, when you had thatmoment where you thought, do I
feel like I shouldn't be here orI'm good enough?
How did you counter that?
Was it through mentorship?
Was it advice?
Was it just breathing in anddoing the Wonder Woman pose?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I think deep down I in the Wonder Woman pose, I
think deep down I always knewthat I had a right to be there.
And you know, just becauseyou're you don't talk the same
as everybody else or you knowyou're not from that background,
it doesn't mean that you're notmeant to be there.
And actually I just knuckleddown and proved it through hard
(07:42):
work and the things that I wasdoing.
Um, and most of my work hasbeen it's not the normal route
through to chief exec.
Most of my work has beenparticipatory work and work with
communities, so I had a goodbalance of going for a brew in a
community centre and what aboutyou, jen?
Speaker 1 (08:05):
what was your?
Because I we always talk thaton this podcast irrespective of
what career, what sector, whatlevel you're at, nobody has one
set path.
There is no one likestraightforward path, is there?
What was your adventure?
Well, I was like, because Isense it was.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
I was obsessed from being a child with being a
teacher, like to the point thatmy poor mum would have like
homework to do set by me andstuff and like I was just, how
did she do?
Oh, she's very clever, she's amentor.
She hates that I say it, so I'msaying Sorry, mum.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Sorry, Gemma.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
She's the lizard and she's brilliant, but yeah, so I
was obsessed with being ateacher, um, and then I became a
teacher, I trained at Hope Uniand then I was like, oh, this is
a lot of admin, isn't it?
this is a lot of like there'snot a lot of time with the
children, there's a lot of timedoing all this stuff and
battling the bureaucracy of itand that kind of I guess
(09:05):
toxicity of like competitionwithin a school and things.
I was just like that is not forme, um, but I took all of those
skills and I did the leap and Iwent and worked in children's
centres, um, and loved it and Iwas doing community and
volunteering, outreach andgetting people who'd never been
into work back into work and Ijust loved it and I was running
(09:27):
workshops for adults.
And then I got intoimprovisation because I went to
see a friend on the show and itwasn't very good and I thought I
could do that better.
Um, uh, so I was like, right, Ibetter go and it then.
So I did improv and then fellin love with that and then I was
like there must be a way to doboth of these things together
(09:52):
and, a bit like you, I just kindof found a way to do it, I
guess.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
With as a will, as a way, right.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, and like if there was an opportunity, you
kind of try and make it foryourself, don't you?
You send out cold calls andemails to people and you make
mates with people and, um, yeah,I moved back to Liverpool in
2021 because I'd lived in theMidlands and I was like, right,
when I move back, I'm going tomeet every creative that I can,
every director, every producer,and I met Siobhan, who works in
(10:23):
Shakespeare North, becamefriends with Siobhan and said if
there's ever a job, come up,will you let me know?
Speaker 1 (10:29):
and she said yeah, and she did so you just and
that's the power of you knowpeople think about.
We talk a lot about networkingand it's it's not about throwing
business cards at each other,is it?
It's about building thoserelationships, building those
connections and you find, youfind the real ones, and you've
been part of those communitiesand I know I love that.
One of the core values you liveby I um, lisa is that whole
(10:51):
theatre must be for and by thecommunity.
Yeah, that's key for you, isn'tit?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
yeah, absolutely, and that's the work I've always
done, um and that, and that workisn't always front and centre
in theatres, but I really feellike if you're going to build
something like Shakespeare Northin a place like Prescott and
Knowlesley, then it kind of hasto be.
That has to be our reason forbeing.
(11:17):
And actually everybody thatworks at Shakespeare North
really cares about thatconnection to community and it
is as passionate as we are.
And you don't find thateverywhere you know.
Normally, or sometimes theparticipation department feels a
bit like a tag on and it's notlike proper theatre, but that's
(11:40):
not the case at ShakespeareNorth at all and we all really
believe that that is a place forpeople and it's building that
community within that.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, and I think there must have been some real
successes and surprises alongthe way, and I know I know you
guys are new into the role butyou will have inherited great
stories and some great stuffthat's happened.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Oh yeah, and like from like small projects.
So we do.
We work with the council inholidays around holiday
activities and food.
Lots of organisations aroundthe city do it.
But we started doing that lastsummer and from that they kind
of grew a group who they justcome back into the theatre to
(12:23):
charge their phone, to go to thetoilet after school to see more
of them who works in theengagement team and and then
there was an opportunity thereto to work with those young
people and we ended up gettingsome uh money from the national
lottery and the heritage fund todo a project.
And then from that we'vecreated a group called raise
(12:43):
your voice on a tuesday andthey're they come in every
tuesday, but they'll come in inthe week to charge the phone, to
ask how our weeks are going, doyou know?
So they're young people whobefore us would never have
stepped into a theatre.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
It's that place of belonging, isn't it?
Yeah, that's what it.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
You know, that's what happens, doesn't it?
They call it the Shakespeare orour Shakespeare.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, has it not been shortened yet?
Come on, we're in the north ofEngland, everything gets.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Yeah, I know we're just up to the shakespeare.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Now we're shaking off sometimes, um, what part has
theatre got in that?
That real catalyst for change?
You know, you think it's notactors on a stage, it's not that
behind the scene.
It's more than that, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
so much more it is more than that, and the social
value of yeah, I've actuallyparticipating in something, not
just coming to watch somethingand the social value of, yeah,
of actually participating insomething, not just coming to
watch something.
There's value in both of thosethings, of course, because you
can see something that resonateswith you and it can create a
dialogue.
But if you actually feel likeyou're taking part in that or
you are doing something that isa really safe environment and a
(13:52):
way for you to work somethingout that is affecting your
community or your life, thentheatre is the ideal or the arts
in general is is the ideal toolto do that, because it does
provide that safe environment towork things out a little bit
it's interesting because it thesense to me about what you're
part of and what you're drivingand leading and growing and
(14:15):
educating on is it's innovation.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
You are innovating through theatre, through
conversation, through community,through performance, and
sometimes we talk about it aspart of our awards.
We have an inclusive innovationcategory that we've been it's
been really hard to educate onbecause people think of lab
coats and drones when you thinkof innovation when this is this
is human-centered peopleinnovation, and it's so
(14:39):
important.
The fact that you, within ashort period of time, have
created the sense of belonging.
That's how you buildcommunities, that's how you
create safe places, enablepeople to flourish.
I've got goose pimples.
Speaker 3 (14:51):
I'm not gonna lie.
You don't know what you don'tknow do you so there's pockets
of communities who would neverimagine that a theatre was for
them and I think even the factthat we are open most days from
11am and we've got chatty cafesgoing on, board game sessions,
shared reason in associationwith the reader.
(15:12):
Do you know?
We've got things that happen inthe daytime which technically
they've got nothing to do with,like a play or theatre but, they
do.
They have everything to do withthat, because you're giving
people their space back, aren'tyou?
Speaker 1 (15:29):
yeah, and that's me sort of re-quoting.
I love this.
I feel like this is a if I wasbrave enough to have a tattoo,
which I'm not, but you know,it's got to be for and by the
community.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Yeah, yeah and that's me sort of re-quoting I love
this.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I feel like this is a if I was brave enough to have a
tattoo which I'm not, but youknow it's got to be for and by
the community.
And that's where that innovationis taking place, in front of
your eyes.
And you talked, lisa, aboutsocial value and social impact.
That's something that we as anorganisation are kind of a joke,
because it was one of the bigauditors.
One of the big fours came,simone.
The stuff that you're doingaround connectivity and creating
opportunities and this, thissort of enabling and building
(15:57):
social capital, social value.
It's just several years ago andI'm like, oh okay, yeah, yeah,
and I just didn't quiteappreciate what it was.
I thought it was anotherbuzzword, another phrase, and I
think that for me, social valuenow is is really like front and
center and so important in thatevery organisation is driving it
and has to drive it.
And I think what we have toreally look at now is what that
(16:19):
social impact is now.
And you're doing that, aren'tyou?
You know, on a day-by-day basis.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, I mean, I've always done it.
You know, when you talk aboutinnovation, it's like I just
feel like it's been here forever, like I just feel like it's
been here forever.
And there are lots of theatrepractitioners that we can, you
know, look back on and think youknow that socially engaged
practice has always been there,but I think we've perhaps it's
(16:48):
become less important over theyears.
And now, I think, just becauseof where we are and and and who
is on our doorstep, I thinkwe've got a really unique
opportunity to just really shoutabout it a bit more and to
prove how you know how greatthat is for a community, not
(17:08):
just in making people feel goodabout themselves but regenerate
in an area Like when you look atthe cultural driver in Prescott
being Shakespeare North, interms of that regeneration,
prescott looks completelydifferent to, you know, a few
years ago, before the theatrearrived.
(17:28):
And that high street, theregeneration of that high street
, for example, is you, you know,is proof that that culture is
really important actually andthat is that catalyst effect,
isn't it that?
Speaker 1 (17:40):
that is that multiplier effect that a borough
that has been one of the mostdeprived areas in in the city
region has regenerated bystorytelling, by community
building.
You know, you might think ofthat.
You don't hear this beingtalked about.
It gets frustrating sometimes.
You think of this as a thisparticular year, the north of
England.
We're so rich in culture, yeah.
(18:00):
It's so important, yeah, yet itcan get overlooked and not
invested in, yes, you know.
So what would you do if you hada magic wand?
Oh gosh, you, oh gosh.
You can have more than one.
You know, you can double uphere.
It's all good.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I think so on the drive here.
So me and Lisa don't get muchtime together in work because
I'm always up and down with agroup of young people and
working in a workshop and Lisa'strying to make sure that we've
got enough money and enoughpeople in the room that need to
be there to help us do that.
So it was really nice.
On the way here we werechatting about kind of what,
(18:40):
what are our passions and what,what drives us, and I think it's
.
It's less about having a magicwand and it's more about like
having knowing that you've gotthe right people with the right
skills and the right space to beable to do something which has,
like a future past you, pastyour role, because I mean and it
(19:00):
happens all the time withgrants and stuff, doesn't it?
It is 10 grand to a project andwe're always thinking what next
?
What next for those youngpeople?
Because we drop opportunitiesand then we take them away and
do you know?
That's the kind of fundingworld that we live in, whereas
actually, for me, the solutionor the magic wand, or whatever
you want to call it, isconsistency for young people and
(19:23):
a community who have so oftenhad here's an opportunity.
Well done, 2008's gone.
Now here's an opportunity forsomeone else.
So it's making sure that peoplefeel valued consistently, I
think.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And I think that opportunity, that ongoing
opportunity, is key, you know,and you have to be intentional
about it.
It can't have a life cyclebecause that can be so
destructive, can't it?
If not, so you know.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
I mean Shakespeare North, regardless of who's
running it or who works in ithas to become part of the
scaffolding that sits around acommunity, and it's not about
funding streams.
You know, we could all sit hereand go yeah, we'd love another
hundred thousand pounds to dowhatever, but actually we don't
actually need it either, becausewe've got good people and we've
(20:08):
got communities and we justneed to start thinking a little
bit differently about how we usethose resources and how we
share what we've got, becausethere is no more money coming.
Actually, yeah, there's nomagic pot, is there?
Speaker 3 (20:20):
and some of the most important, like precious work
that we do like isn't the workthat brings in any revenue or
money, or do you know what Imean?
So, but it fills your heart,right, exactly.
So we've just done a projectwith old bridge, which, which is
an SEN school nearby, andthey're post-16 provision, so
they're kind of college sixthform students, and we had 12
(20:41):
students who I worked with for10 weeks and then they did a
showcase on Friday in ourtheatre space and they decorated
the space how they wanted.
With all of the work thatthey've been doing, they stood
up and said who they were, whatthey want to do in future.
Some of them read poetry thatthey've created.
Some of them are even standingup in front of an audience and
(21:02):
me reading on their behalf ortheir teacher reading on their
behalf.
It's a huge step.
Their parents were there.
These are parents who mightfear that their children are
never going to be able to gointo the big, wide world without
them.
So for me, that's the importantthing about what we do, not
necessarily the big, shiny shoes, which are brilliant, but
(21:25):
that's just the cherry on thetop.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
But that comes with intention and I think what
strikes me from both of you andit's interesting that you're
relatively new but reallyaccomplished in your roles
You've just had good like teambuilding time on the on the
journey over here, but itappears to me that this is an
environment, the culture of thisenvironment you've created
enables you literally takingyour whole self into work.
(21:47):
Yeah, everyone is welcome,everyone is inclusive.
You can play a board game, youcan come and say hi and have a
brew.
You can do you, be you, yeah,and that's that can be rare,
can't it?
When you think there's so muchspace out there, sometimes it's
not welcoming or inclusive.
Yet you have created thisbeautifully inclusive space and
it was the wonderful MichelleEagleton, who's a a broadcaster
(22:09):
and host and gets involved inour awards, and it was her,
probably just over, probablylast summer, when oh my gosh,
you need to.
It's her who connected me withyou guys, because we're talking
about you did an amazingperformance of Romeo and Juliet
with Grey Eye Theatre Companyyeah, and she just was.
She was so blown away.
Tell us about that.
I don't know that that wasbefore your time or not, but so
(22:31):
I just started on.
Hair passed it on to me andultimately, that's why we're
here now and watch this space.
We don't know where we're goingto go from here, right, yeah?
Speaker 3 (22:39):
yeah, so Grey Eye are a um disabled, deaf and
neurodiverse theatre company whowe'd already done some work
with on various projects andstuff, but it was a
co-production.
So we do three co-productions ayear um with different uh
theatre companies and it was oneof the co-productions.
But Grey Eye had really workedwith the team around training.
(23:00):
So we'd had training around howto be inclusive, accessible and
understanding kind of variousdisabilities and things and
access needs.
So the production was reallylike built into the theatre.
All of their rehearsalshappened in the theatre.
We made sure that we developedresources that went alongside
the shows.
(23:21):
Us and the engagement teamchanged some of our workshops to
meet the needs of kind of thetheatre company and what they
were doing and stuff.
And it was just a joyful show,even though it was Romeo and
Juliet.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (23:35):
It's a shock how everyone dies in what I mean.
Yeah, it's shock hard, everyonedies in the end, but it's
joyful.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Spoiler alert I know sorry, not ready to buy now but
that, young people, you knowthis has changed your world from
wanting to be a teacher orbeing a teacher, having the
bureaucracy.
Yeah, this comes back to thedream job again, doesn't it?
Oh?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
yeah, how good that's like I get to watch like a
dress rehearsal and I'm paid aspart of my job to watch a dress
rehearsal Like that's mad to me.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
And it is that culture piece.
And you know, when you comeinto an organisation, you're
assessing that culture, aren'tyou?
You know how have you been ableto bring the Lisa factor into
it as well?
Because it is about leadership.
That's a we're coining that.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Oh, are you there?
You go take it.
Yeah, that's your next tattooyeah.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
I mean, I feel like I'm just at the start of that
journey really, and I don't knowwhether you know what impact
you're having, because I'm notsomebody who asks for that kind
of feedback either really.
But I've just presented afive-year vision to all the
staff, the board and all of ourvolunteers and the council, and
(24:49):
I feel like it went down reallywell and I got some really good
questions and feedback.
It went down really well and Igot some really good questions
and feedback, and a lot of that,of course, was, you know,
talking about what we're goingto be taking out of the building
in terms of communitydevelopment work, because you
can't just open a lovelybuilding and then expect
everyone to come in.
You know, we've still got a lotof work to do.
(25:10):
It's great.
But you know, I was walkingaround Kirby Market the other
week and no one's heard ofShakespeare North, so there's
work to be done.
But I felt like it landedreally well and, um, people
appreciated it and it's whatpeople wanted, I think so we'll
see.
But yeah, but I walked into themost welcoming space ever.
(25:33):
You, you know people inManchester talk about how
welcoming Shakespeare North is,so that's nothing to do with me.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
That's across boundaries, there, isn't it?
That's all them I was lookingto just walk into that, so yeah,
and what are you excited about,gem?
Because I, a little birdie,tells me that someone's about to
train to be a clown.
Of course you are.
Yeah, course, obviously, isthat part of the appraisal was
(26:03):
that?
Speaker 3 (26:03):
tell me about that.
Yeah, part of the probation?
Um, no, so I, um, I applied forthe arts councils developing
your creative practice fund, um,which they do, I think, two
streams a year.
Yeah, um, for individualartists.
So apply for money, not with anend goal of like a show or
anything, it's just to developyourself as an artist.
Um, on any other job I was in,wouldn't?
(26:26):
They wouldn't give me the timeto do that, you know, I mean,
they wouldn't give me theflexibility, um, but when I
spoke to ivana, who's my boss,the head of engagement, she was
like, yeah, do you need helpwith it?
Like, what do you need?
So, yeah, I'm trying to developmyself as a spontaneous theatre
maker.
I do a lot of improv, butclowning sits so comfortably
(26:49):
alongside that.
So I am going to London for twoweeks in June to do how To Be A
Stupid by an amazing, amazingclient practitioner called
DeCastro.
So, and the theatre were like,what do you?
How can we help?
What can we do?
When you come back, like, whatwould?
What does that look like foryou?
And I mean, imagine being ateacher and going and doing that
(27:12):
.
They, they'd be like, yeah, buthave you done your marking?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Do you?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
know.
So it's yeah, it's a veryexciting opportunity.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Wow, I mean, that is that's something for the
portfolio, isn't it?
I'm not going to.
At least we'll have somethingup our sleeve, but we'll make it
.
What are you most excited aboutgoing?
Speaker 2 (27:29):
forward.
Oh, I'm excited abouteverything.
There's so many opportunities.
I think Prescott as a place, Ireally I'm really interested in
what that um visitor experiencecan look like in the next five
years, really kind of leaninginto looking at further
investment, further regeneration, all driven, of course, by
(27:51):
culture.
And then I just really wantit's so magical that theatre I
would just really love, even ifthey're not coming to see a show
but just coming in to see thattheatre.
I want everybody in Knowsley tojust have seen it, just been in
and had a look.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
You need to get knocking on them doors.
Hopefully, well, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I am not adverse to knocking on doors.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And Jen, what advice would you give to your, your
younger self?
Someone listening out theretoday is going um, I'm here.
I thought I wanted to do this,but I want to be a clown.
No, no, you don't.
I want to be me.
I want to go and be in a spacewhere I can be me.
How?
Because Lisa's the magic makermaking the culture, retaining
and and and building the culture.
But how can you?
(28:37):
Someone out there going?
Oh, I don't think I can everhave that opportunity.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
I think there's always someone who's willing to
give you advice and help you,and just reaching out to women
who have done similar or doingsimilar, like the amount of
people that I've got.
You know what I'm doing thisapplication.
Can you help me?
Um, like Alice, who works forRubber Shakespeare Company, sat
with me for hours and helped mewith my application.
(29:02):
She didn't need to do that.
Like I'm going to bought her apint, but you know what I mean
that's like.
So I think currency, that it isgood currency um, but just reach
out to people and there'll besomeone who's either been there,
they've done it, they've failedat it, they've succeeded
that'll give you advice.
And also, like, you'reinfinitely more interesting than
(29:23):
you can ever imagine and you'reprobably more talented than you
think.
So, like, especially as women,we don't believe those things.
So it's just like you said,knowing it in your gut, even if
you don't feel it every day.
And just your words arepowerful, aren't they?
Speaker 1 (29:37):
if you tell yourself something every day, you're more
likely to believe it and Ithink what you've just said
there which I can't repeatbecause it's too many phrases,
but that's that there and Lisa,your philosophy about you know
built I'm gonna have to read itnow built for and by the
community.
They're my tote bags, they'rethe things that you want on your
tote bag and your t-shirtmoment, and I hope to see those
(29:58):
not just around the streets ofPrescott and wider, but everyone
coming through the doors andequally, where you're taking
that message out, becausethere's so much that can be
learned by this amazing industry.
Look at you, the smiliestpeople like the happiest, the
proudest people.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
I'm looking forward to comingover.
I'm looking forward to seeingthe result of the one person
(30:22):
show.
I'm looking forward to seeinghow we can create opportunities,
because we can allintentionally work together to
create opportunities for others,and ask people for help is also
a big shout out.
Thank you, lisa.
Thank you, gem, for joining me.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
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