July 14, 2025 • 26 mins
The brilliant Steph Edusei returns to the We Are PoWEr Podcast - this time as a PoWEr Lister, published author, and still dancing her way through leadership, life, and impact.
In this episode, Steph shares the leadership lessons that shaped her writing, the moments that tested her optimism, and the poWEr of creating collaborative spaces where people flourish - not just follow. She opens up about why not every table feeds you, the importance of saying no, and how her book was written with 10-minute loo breaks in mind (yes, really).
From practical wisdom to purposeful reflection, Steph reminds us that poWErful leadership isn’t about status - it’s about showing up, listening deeply, and knowing you are enough.
In this episode:
Life as a CEO, dance teacher, and author
Why her book is written in loo-length chapters
Building inclusive leadership by listening to every voice
The mindset shift: not every opportunity is the right one
Using optimism as a super PoWEr and knowing when to pause
Creating the Black All Year platform
Reimagining what modern leadership really looks like
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast.
If this is your first time here, the we Are Power podcast is
the podcast for you, your careerand your life.
We release an episode everysingle Monday with listeners in
over 60 countries worldwide,where you'll hear personal life
stories, top-notch industryadvice and key leadership
insight from amazing role models.
(00:21):
As we Are Power is the umbrellabrand to Northern Power Women
Awards, which celebrateshundreds of female role models
and advocates every year.
This is where you can hearstories from all of our awards
alumni and stay up to date witheverything MPW Awards and we Are
Power Well, hello, hello,welcome to the podcast.
(00:49):
This week, I am delighted to bejoined by a repeat guest, steph
Adusi, winner of theTransformational Leader Award
back in 2022 and Northern PowerWomen Awards Game Changer, power
Lister from this year.
Welcome back, welcome to ournew Deseret's.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Hot Couch.
I know, I think last time itwas all kind of online, wasn't
it?
It was always, wasn't it?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So what's happening?
What's been?
Oh, author, now I understand.
Yes, yes, nothing stands stillwith you, does?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
it.
Well, you know, people havesaid to me for quite a long time
oh, you really should write abook.
It'd be really interesting tohear.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So then you got it right.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, but I did, if I'm honest.
I tried a while ago and kind ofjust didn't, it gave up.
And then was listening toSophie Millican's podcast
Actually Beyond the Bio and shehad a guest who said their first
book was a little book of and Iwent oh, I could write a little
book.
So that's what I've done.
(01:46):
I've done a little book ofleadership lessons.
It's coming out very soon andit's basically just drawing on
my decades now in leadership andgiving stories from my life and
saying and this is what I'velearned and it might be useful
for other people as well.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So it's passing on that skills and knowledge, isn't
it so, before we dive into thebook?
But you are, I remember whenyou must go back, if you haven't
go back and listen to the podthat we recorded in 2022,
because we talked a lot aboutimposter syndrome.
We talked a lot about just howsort of you and you're still
driving on the Black All Yearpodcast, which is amazing and is
(02:28):
growing, and everything thatthere is around that, which is
brilliant.
But one of the things I lovewas we talked about your bio.
You know, chief exec, non-execdirector, dance teacher, wannabe
ballerina.
Yeah, how's the ballerina bitgoing?
Well, I'm still teaching.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Oh, well, there we go and I'm still dancing.
But, um, I'm a few years olderand the knees aren't quite as
good as they used to be and I'veput on a little bit of weight,
so you know when you're on pointand you feel the weight.
But, yeah, still love ballet.
Um, still love teaching thekids.
It's just, it's an absolute joy.
I just love it.
I get so much back from fromdoing that and from them and um
(03:07):
just have such a laugh with mycolleagues as well.
It's really nice, when you'vegot a responsible role, to have
something where I go in.
I don't need to worry about theinsurance and I don't need to
worry about the building upkeep.
I just need to think aboutthose kids and how I can get the
best out of them and then joinmyself, and it's a really nice
change from what I do the restof my life.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, and you're the chief exec of the wonderful St
Oswald's Hospice, which are 20plus.
Is it 20 plus?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
shops.
We have 25 shops and counting.
We're hoping maybe to have acouple more by the end of the
financial year.
So yeah, and a really good,thriving online business as well
.
So it's that combination ofrunning a hospice and then
having this.
I kind of joke that I'mprobably one of the northeast,
(03:55):
or certainly Tynanware's,biggest retailers, beaten maybe
by Gregg's I think they'reprobably the only one that has
more stores than we do.
So, yeah, I'm coming afterGregg's, but Greg isn't on eBay
is he?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
You are right, no, no .
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yes, and it's just, it's an absolute joy.
I mean, st Oswald's is my, youknow, when you go somewhere and
it's like I've come home.
That's what it feels like beingat St Oswald's?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Tell us about it.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Tell about the work that St in oswald.
So in oswald hospice is a largechildren's and adult hospice,
um, we this year have got abudget of about 17 million um
and we have inpatient beds.
We have a busy bustling dayservices.
We provide a lymphedema serviceacross the region, um, and then
we've got children's andchildren's fortunately, is
mainly respite care rather thanend of life and we have, we say,
(04:47):
children's, children's andyoung adults.
It goes 0 to 25.
But it's been around for nearly40 years, our 40th anniversary
next year.
I've just celebrated my fifthanniversary there and the time's
just flown by.
So I started in the middle ofthe first lockdown just flown by
(05:08):
.
So I started in the middle ofthe first lockdown and it's just
been, I'd say, an absolute joyto be a part of such a brilliant
organization that cares so muchabout people, and not just the
people that come to us forsupport, we care about each
other and it's really creativeand innovative and just fun.
I laugh so much in that jobwhich, for a hospice, people
(05:30):
think, oh, it must be really sad.
You get kind of like people gosay you work in a hospice and
they go oh that must be so hardand I feel really bad saying,
well, no, actually it's justamazing.
It's an amazing place to be.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
What are you most proud of?
Of the work that you do anddrive and the teams you lead?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I think I'm not going to claim credit for this,
because it was there before Istarted but the fact that we've
been able to maintain thatabsolute focus on our patients
and service users everything wedo is for them and having worked
in the NHS in the past, whereunfortunately that's not always
the case, but being able tomaintain that through all of the
(06:13):
last five years and the ups anddowns and everything that's
gone on, I think is probablypretty key.
But we've got a really excitingnew strategy which is about us
moving more into communities,reaching more people than we've
ever done before, and makingsure that everybody gets more
and better access to palliativeand end-of-life care, because we
know a lot of people don't andthere's so many barriers in the
(06:35):
way.
So really having for me, mypersonal achievement is being
able to get that strategy outthere and seeing it land with
people from within the hospiceand the wider health and care
community and people are going.
Yeah, absolutely that's what weneed.
So that's kind of been a realkind of oh right, I was, I was
right, this was the right thingto do and we're really we're
(06:56):
into year two now and reallystart to see things powering and
moving and people are startingto come to us and say can you do
this, can you do that?
So we're now in the right.
We just need to take one stepat a time now, but it's exciting
.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So this is after winning transformational leader
in 2022.
You are, you continue totransform.
Yeah, and this is what makesleaders great leaders is.
You don't just lead for aperiod of time or in sections.
It's it's innovation, isn't itit's innovation?
How would you describe yourleadership style?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I try to be really collaborative and that's
challenging, it's sometimes alot.
You just sit there and you justkind of go.
I want to tell you the answerbecause I know and you can't do
that and you also sometimes wantto say, just do it.
But that doesn't work and itcan take longer.
Doing things collaborativelyactually, I know we'll get to a
(07:49):
better outcome if we do that.
So we may not get to a vastlydifferent place, but it'll be a
place that everybody wants to goto and therefore the way in
which it's delivered will be alot better.
Um, I like to kind of be a verytrusting leader.
I'm not a micromanager andthat's partly because of my own
personal thing that I'm not anattention to detail person but I
(08:12):
actually trust people.
Yeah, I work with some amazingindividuals and they know far
more about their subject areathan I do.
So me micromanaging themdoesn't make sense.
It's about agreeing what's theoutcomes that we want and then
trusting them to get on with itand saying what do you need from
me and the organisation to helpyou to get there?
(08:33):
What kind of environment do youneed?
And for me, that's whatleadership is.
Leadership is all aboutcreating that environment so
that people can just go righthere.
I go and and really go for itand and excel um, because if
you're in, if you're in thewrong environment, it's that
thing of you know you put aplant in the wrong environment
and it wither and die.
(08:53):
I want all of our people to bein absolutely the right soil and
have the right nutrients sothat they can just flourish and,
and when you see that happening, it's, it's great and it makes
my life easy and who do you goto for guidance?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
because when you're at the top and I talked at the
start about your, your otherroles and other side hustles, uh
, but you know, being a chairbeing non-exec, you know it's
leadership, leadership,leadership.
But who do?
Who do you go to for guidance?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I've got a really lovely family for a start.
My mom especially I mean my momnorthern power mom, yeah she's
just amazing, um, and, and I can, I can really talk to her.
My other half, rob Rob, he's inleadership himself.
So we do have a kind of we kindof finish the day and we do a
kind of half hour of and thenit's and and and help each other
(09:49):
out with any challenges thatwe've got.
But I have coaches, um, I go toother chief execs so across the
hospices in our region we'vegot a really good network of the
chief execs and we gathertogether regularly and it's part
kind of planning and sharingand part therapy session.
So I think it's about havingpeople that you trust around you
(10:12):
, that you can kind of havethose conversations with.
But also my leadership teamwe're a really good, solid team
Very, very different individualsin the team and that's to be
really celebrated, that we dohave that difference and that we
will challenge each other.
But we're also really supportiveof each other as well, and
(10:33):
we'll kind of I'll get peoplesay, oh, you know, so-and-so's
just a bit low at the minute.
You might want to keep an eyeon them, and it's it, it's.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
it's really nice that we've got that as well so at
what point did you think why youwere listening to Sophie
Millican's fabulous uh by umpodcast that she does and you
went I'm gonna do this, I'mgonna all in.
Would you start even by writinga book?
Go on, one of Sophie's retreatsis probably what Sophie would
(11:01):
say well for me.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I once I decided to do it.
It was relatively easy for meto write because it had kind of
written itself in my head overthe past 10 years and I kind of
went, okay.
So if I was going to do alittle book, what would the
little book be of?
And I thought, well, it's gotto be leadership lessons,
because one of the things thatI've realized, particularly over
(11:28):
the last decade, is that I havelearned a lot and I've been
through a lot and experiencedsome some real highs, but some
real lows in my career, and I'vebeen able to look back and
reflect.
I'm a real refle and I've beenable to look back and reflect.
I'm a real reflector and I'vebeen able to reflect on them and
go, okay, so what was thatactually about and what have I
learned from that?
(11:48):
Sometimes I've had to make thesame mistake a number of times
and then I've gone oh right,okay, yeah, remember you, you
learned that the first time andthen forgot it.
So it was really, really it wasalmost.
The hardest thing was medeciding what I was going to
leave out because I wanted it tobe a little book.
It is 10 lessons that I'velearned and really thinking well
(12:11):
, these are the ones that areapplicable to new leaders and to
established leaders.
These are the ones where Ithink actually the the story of
my experience is relevant andinteresting.
Um, but I also wanted it to bea little book in lots of ways.
I don't want it to be a bookthat's a real burden to read.
(12:34):
I've mentioned to some peopleabout you get a book and it's a
great big, thick tome andinstantly it puts me off.
It's overwhelming, yeah it is,and I haven't got time to be
reading that.
I haven't got time to bewatching tv series with 24
episodes in each series.
That's too much commitment.
So I wanted a little book and Iwanted something where you
(12:54):
could read a chapter sorry aboutthis on the loo it's.
You know what I mean.
It's that if any of us thathave had kids, it's that if you
manage to grab the time, that'swhat I used to do all the time.
I used to have a, a healthservice journal, which was a
trade magazine, when I was inthe health service and I used to
have that next to the toiletand I used to read it every week
(13:16):
.
Was it your safe space?
It was.
It was kind of like right, I'vegot time to, so the loo is for
you, but it's that type that Iwanted a like a 10 minute
chapter that people yeah andactually you don't even have to
read it front to back.
You can kind of go right ohthere's a, there's a chapter
there on imposter phenomena.
I want to read that, yeah, andbe able to just dip in and read
(13:36):
it and for it to beself-contained.
So, um, yeah, no, no stress, noadditional burdens for people,
just something that will help,hopefully and be interesting and
it's interesting when you talkabout them.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
You know often the lead, the learning, is about the
mistakes that you make alongthe way.
What is the if you can sharethe biggest, maybe leadership
mistake you've made on the way?
Oh sometimes it's also not justthe mistake, it's how you get
back from it, how you get backon track.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, there's, there's probably a couple, but
the one that, um, this is onethat I have made at least twice
and that's about excludingvoices.
So when I was quite a juniormanager, I did it twice, and it
was normally me being heavilyinfluenced by other people and
their opinions of people, and orthat person was just difficult
(14:32):
to work with, or whatever, and Ikind of I didn't exclude them
completely, but I sidelined themand what we did was we ended up
getting to the right place, butit was probably not as good as
it could have been.
Or we had to do a lot ofremedial actions to get there
and actually, in one of thosecases, the person that I
sidelined was a lovely person, areally genuinely lovely person,
(14:55):
and it still sits with me alittle bit that I might have
hurt them because they weren'tas included as they should have
been in the work that we weredoing.
So I do regret that.
Um, so now I say, even thoughit can be really really
torturous sometimes and you canbe it can be really personally
and professionally challengingto get different voices in there
(15:18):
.
I, I know the value of of doingthat and that sometimes people
can really stop you from goingcompletely the wrong way because
you've had them in the room andthey've said that really
difficult thing to hear, butyou've needed to hear it.
So that's that's probably thebiggest one that I would say is
(15:40):
it's really tempting and reallyeasy to go.
I will just leave, just notbother, including that because
they're going to say somethingor behave in a way that I don't
want to behave.
So we'll just get all of thekind of happy, supportive,
cheerleader-y people.
Absolutely the wrong thing todo, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
And what's the bit of advice that you find you always
pass on?
You know when you get asked.
You know what advice would yougive to your younger self, your
boisterous self?
I think I heard you talk aboutit on another podcast.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Well, there's two, but they're connected.
So the first one is that youare enough, yeah, and it doesn't
matter who you are or whatyou've done.
You could be, you know, youcould be chief exec of Microsoft
or you could be somebody who ishomeless you are still enough.
(16:33):
And you, as you are, areabsolutely enough.
And I wish more people believedthat, particularly more women
believed that.
Connected to that, andparticularly for professionals,
is you need to be really carefulabout the table that you sit at
, and it is actually a chapter.
You know, not every table feedsyou, and I've had experiences
(16:57):
where I've been asked to sit ata table and I've been really
flattered but I'm just like, wow, they want me to be involved.
This is great, and actually ithas been personally very
damaging and the reasons thatI've been asked to sit there
have maybe not been what Ithought they were or not what I
heard they were, because that'sthe other thing when somebody
(17:19):
asks you, you kind of go oh, andyou don't hear necessarily what
people are saying.
But also I think that peoplearen't necessarily prepared for
what you bring to that table.
so really be careful about whereyou choose to sit and the
tables you choose to sit at, anddon't believe this thing of oh
(17:40):
well, there's not many places attables.
That's what people want you tobelieve.
They want particularly, again,women, people of colour to
believe that there are very fewplaces at the table.
Absolutely not.
Don't be grateful yeah Well,it's that you need to be and
here and people become veryprotective when they think that
there's a limited number ofplaces at the table.
(18:02):
Your job, once you're sittingthere, is to think that there's
a limited number of places atthe table.
Your job, once you're sittingthere, is to make sure there's
plenty of space for other peopleto join and and that that.
So don't believe that scarcity,but be really picky about the
tables you choose to sit at.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I love that and I have seen, as at the start, you
know, since we first met at theawards and various power circles
, various events we've been at.
We were both.
We're not grateful we areenabled to be part of the
Northern Leaders list, whichwe're going to an event later on
(18:39):
tonight, aren't we?
I know this will come out afterthis is aired but it's, all
good.
What did that feel like?
To get that recognition,because you are very
accomplished and I see yougetting lots of recognition.
Does that sit comfortably withyou?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
It's always a surprise.
It probably sits better nowthan it used to, because I used
to really struggle withaccepting praise.
I still do with certain typesof praise, but that's not
because I don't believe it'strue.
I don't want people to thinkI'm better than them, because
(19:14):
I'm not.
I'm the same as everybody else.
I just do things in a certainway that lands well with certain
people.
So I don't want to get praisedbecause people are doing
themselves down.
But it used to be really,really difficult for me and I
used to dismiss it.
I used to do.
Oh, that's a mistake or it'sbecause they don't know about.
So now, when something like theNorthern Leaders, which did
(19:37):
come as a complete surprise,kind of out of the blue, was
really, really lovely, I do havemoments still amongst business
communities where I go, oh am Isupposed to be here?
And then I remind myself I runa large, multi-million pound
organization with 25 shops and,um, you know everything that's.
(19:58):
That's a heck of a business tobe running.
So, yeah, I absolutely dodeserve to be in those rooms,
but that's taken a lot of workfor me to get to the place where
I'm comfortable with it.
But always recognise thatthat's because I've got a
profile that I've got and thatthere'll be other people who
(20:19):
don't have that profile and aredoing absolutely fantastic work
and are deserving of fantasticwork and are deserving of
similar accolades.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And you drive.
You're very much someone wholikes to give back, whether it's
through your dance teaching andmaking a difference to the next
gen or just giving back, but bysetting up.
I think when we first chattedyou were right at the start of
setting up Black All Year.
What have you learnt most fromthat and tell us about it, and
what have you learnt most?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, so Black All Year has been.
It's been a little bit I'mgoing to use the term journey
has been a little bit of ajourney In that originally it
was all about having live eventsthat people could join online.
So we'd do an hour, normallyover a lunchtime, have a guest
talking about topics that wererelevant, about the black
(21:06):
experience and it.
It was kind of a bit of a mixedaudience and I kind of oh, I
need to think who my audience is, and then I grew really
comfortable with having thatmixed audience.
So what, what I have is a, anaudience of people from the
black and ethnically minoritizedcommunity who are learning
stuff but who are also saying,yes, that's me, that's my
(21:31):
experience and I'm reallygrateful to have their
experiences aired as value.
If not more valuable, are peoplefrom kind of the white
community and organisations whohave said to me this has been
really useful.
I bumped into a chief exec of ahospice at a conference last
(21:53):
year and he came over and hesaid you're Steph, aren't you?
And I went yeah, and he said myteam and I listened to the
Black All Year podcast and wehave learned so much.
Thank you so much for producingit.
And that makes it allworthwhile.
Knowing that, even if just oneperson has learned something and
will change their practice andtheir behavior because of it,
(22:15):
that's all I ever wanted was forpeople to go all right.
I didn't know that and Iunderstand more now and as a
result of knowing, knowing thatI'm going to do something
differently and what would yousay is your superpower?
oh, my superpower, optimism, Ithink, especially in today's
(22:41):
climate, I think it has to be.
You know, I I could have saidenergy, but actually I get tired
just like everybody else and Iam very mindful of when I need
to rest and things like that.
Um, but yeah, I think optimismbecause, no matter how bleak it
gets, there's something in megoes.
(23:01):
But I can do something aboutthis, it can get better, we can
change this.
Um.
So, yeah, I have had,especially, like I say, recently
I've had quite a few momentswhere I've gone.
Why am I bothering?
Why am I doing?
Speaker 1 (23:13):
this.
I was at an event last week, afemale founders event, and there
was the question is who feelsoptimistic?
And I always, like yourself,optimistic.
Um, I couldn't put my hand upand, and I think it was, and I
actually said I'm caveating this.
This is a small wobble andprobably the first wobble I've
had in 10 years, but it's awobble and and.
(23:35):
But normally I'm like the oneat the first in, first in class
hands straight up.
How do you up?
How do you get yourself back ontrack?
I was fuelled by a room full offemale founders that you know I
could caveat to go.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
It's not going to last, this will pass, but it is
tough out there it is, and Ithink for me there's something
about so during the whole BlackAll Year kind of pushback in
kind of 2020-21, last summer,with the riots in the UK in
particular, that was reallypersonally very challenging and
(24:13):
terrifying.
The riots last year were perhapsthe most scared I've been.
That I can remember.
And I think there's somethingfor me about knowing that when
that optimism drops for me, it'snot that it's gone, I just need
a break.
And there's something aboutknowing that I can step back and
(24:36):
the others will step in to fillthe void.
I don't have to be the one thatfights every battle and every
cause.
So I know that there are a lotof people who are activists who
will step forward, and I've saidit to other women.
I've said look, take a break,sister, it's all right.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Just take a break.
It's okay, we're here, we'vegot this, and when you're ready,
come back, and I trust that Ican do that as well.
And then I take you know,normally it's about three hours
actually I'll go okay, I don'tneed to do this anymore.
And then I go all right, I'mready again.
Because I have the optimismwhen I know I don't have to, and
and kind of get over myself aswell.
(25:19):
The weight of the world is not,it's kind of sitting in my hand
to change.
So once I've done that and saidit's okay, I don't have to, I
can let other people do this,that kind of weight is lifted
and I find that the optimismthen comes back.
Or if not the optimism, thefight comes back, the power yeah
(25:43):
, steph.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Adusi, stepha, do see .
Power woman, northern powerwoman.
Northern leader.
Author, very excited aboutcoming on the book tour.
There's going to be one right,there has to be one, steph.
Thank you so much, uh, forcoming across and chat with you
today.
It's been, it's been too longand I look forward to seeing you
a few hours in newcastle lovely.
Thank you, step.
Subscribe on YouTube, apple,amazon Music, spotify or
(26:07):
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Power Well, hello, hello,welcome to the podcast.
(00:49):
This week, I am delighted to bejoined by a repeat guest, steph
Adusi, winner of theTransformational Leader Award
back in 2022 and Northern PowerWomen Awards Game Changer, power
Lister from this year.
Welcome back, welcome to ournew Deseret's.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Hot Couch.
I know, I think last time itwas all kind of online, wasn't
it?
It was always, wasn't it?
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So what's happening?
What's been?
Oh, author, now I understand.
Yes, yes, nothing stands stillwith you, does?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
it.
Well, you know, people havesaid to me for quite a long time
oh, you really should write abook.
It'd be really interesting tohear.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
So then you got it right.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, but I did, if I'm honest.
I tried a while ago and kind ofjust didn't, it gave up.
And then was listening toSophie Millican's podcast
Actually Beyond the Bio and shehad a guest who said their first
book was a little book of and Iwent oh, I could write a little
book.
So that's what I've done.
(01:46):
I've done a little book ofleadership lessons.
It's coming out very soon andit's basically just drawing on
my decades now in leadership andgiving stories from my life and
saying and this is what I'velearned and it might be useful
for other people as well.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
So it's passing on that skills and knowledge, isn't
it so, before we dive into thebook?
But you are, I remember whenyou must go back, if you haven't
go back and listen to the podthat we recorded in 2022,
because we talked a lot aboutimposter syndrome.
We talked a lot about just howsort of you and you're still
driving on the Black All Yearpodcast, which is amazing and is
(02:28):
growing, and everything thatthere is around that, which is
brilliant.
But one of the things I lovewas we talked about your bio.
You know, chief exec, non-execdirector, dance teacher, wannabe
ballerina.
Yeah, how's the ballerina bitgoing?
Well, I'm still teaching.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Oh, well, there we go and I'm still dancing.
But, um, I'm a few years olderand the knees aren't quite as
good as they used to be and I'veput on a little bit of weight,
so you know when you're on pointand you feel the weight.
But, yeah, still love ballet.
Um, still love teaching thekids.
It's just, it's an absolute joy.
I just love it.
I get so much back from fromdoing that and from them and um
(03:07):
just have such a laugh with mycolleagues as well.
It's really nice, when you'vegot a responsible role, to have
something where I go in.
I don't need to worry about theinsurance and I don't need to
worry about the building upkeep.
I just need to think aboutthose kids and how I can get the
best out of them and then joinmyself, and it's a really nice
change from what I do the restof my life.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Yeah, and you're the chief exec of the wonderful St
Oswald's Hospice, which are 20plus.
Is it 20 plus?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
shops.
We have 25 shops and counting.
We're hoping maybe to have acouple more by the end of the
financial year.
So yeah, and a really good,thriving online business as well
.
So it's that combination ofrunning a hospice and then
having this.
I kind of joke that I'mprobably one of the northeast,
(03:55):
or certainly Tynanware's,biggest retailers, beaten maybe
by Gregg's I think they'reprobably the only one that has
more stores than we do.
So, yeah, I'm coming afterGregg's, but Greg isn't on eBay
is he?
Speaker 1 (04:05):
You are right, no, no .
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yes, and it's just, it's an absolute joy.
I mean, st Oswald's is my, youknow, when you go somewhere and
it's like I've come home.
That's what it feels like beingat St Oswald's?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Tell us about it.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Tell about the work that St in oswald.
So in oswald hospice is a largechildren's and adult hospice,
um, we this year have got abudget of about 17 million um
and we have inpatient beds.
We have a busy bustling dayservices.
We provide a lymphedema serviceacross the region, um, and then
we've got children's andchildren's fortunately, is
mainly respite care rather thanend of life and we have, we say,
(04:47):
children's, children's andyoung adults.
It goes 0 to 25.
But it's been around for nearly40 years, our 40th anniversary
next year.
I've just celebrated my fifthanniversary there and the time's
just flown by.
So I started in the middle ofthe first lockdown just flown by
(05:08):
.
So I started in the middle ofthe first lockdown and it's just
been, I'd say, an absolute joyto be a part of such a brilliant
organization that cares so muchabout people, and not just the
people that come to us forsupport, we care about each
other and it's really creativeand innovative and just fun.
I laugh so much in that jobwhich, for a hospice, people
(05:30):
think, oh, it must be really sad.
You get kind of like people gosay you work in a hospice and
they go oh that must be so hardand I feel really bad saying,
well, no, actually it's justamazing.
It's an amazing place to be.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
What are you most proud of?
Of the work that you do anddrive and the teams you lead?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I think I'm not going to claim credit for this,
because it was there before Istarted but the fact that we've
been able to maintain thatabsolute focus on our patients
and service users everything wedo is for them and having worked
in the NHS in the past, whereunfortunately that's not always
the case, but being able tomaintain that through all of the
(06:13):
last five years and the ups anddowns and everything that's
gone on, I think is probablypretty key.
But we've got a really excitingnew strategy which is about us
moving more into communities,reaching more people than we've
ever done before, and makingsure that everybody gets more
and better access to palliativeand end-of-life care, because we
know a lot of people don't andthere's so many barriers in the
(06:35):
way.
So really having for me, mypersonal achievement is being
able to get that strategy outthere and seeing it land with
people from within the hospiceand the wider health and care
community and people are going.
Yeah, absolutely that's what weneed.
So that's kind of been a realkind of oh right, I was, I was
right, this was the right thingto do and we're really we're
(06:56):
into year two now and reallystart to see things powering and
moving and people are startingto come to us and say can you do
this, can you do that?
So we're now in the right.
We just need to take one stepat a time now, but it's exciting
.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
So this is after winning transformational leader
in 2022.
You are, you continue totransform.
Yeah, and this is what makesleaders great leaders is.
You don't just lead for aperiod of time or in sections.
It's it's innovation, isn't itit's innovation?
How would you describe yourleadership style?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
I try to be really collaborative and that's
challenging, it's sometimes alot.
You just sit there and you justkind of go.
I want to tell you the answerbecause I know and you can't do
that and you also sometimes wantto say, just do it.
But that doesn't work and itcan take longer.
Doing things collaborativelyactually, I know we'll get to a
(07:49):
better outcome if we do that.
So we may not get to a vastlydifferent place, but it'll be a
place that everybody wants to goto and therefore the way in
which it's delivered will be alot better.
Um, I like to kind of be a verytrusting leader.
I'm not a micromanager andthat's partly because of my own
personal thing that I'm not anattention to detail person but I
(08:12):
actually trust people.
Yeah, I work with some amazingindividuals and they know far
more about their subject areathan I do.
So me micromanaging themdoesn't make sense.
It's about agreeing what's theoutcomes that we want and then
trusting them to get on with itand saying what do you need from
me and the organisation to helpyou to get there?
(08:33):
What kind of environment do youneed?
And for me, that's whatleadership is.
Leadership is all aboutcreating that environment so
that people can just go righthere.
I go and and really go for itand and excel um, because if
you're in, if you're in thewrong environment, it's that
thing of you know you put aplant in the wrong environment
and it wither and die.
(08:53):
I want all of our people to bein absolutely the right soil and
have the right nutrients sothat they can just flourish and,
and when you see that happening, it's, it's great and it makes
my life easy and who do you goto for guidance?
Speaker 1 (09:10):
because when you're at the top and I talked at the
start about your, your otherroles and other side hustles, uh
, but you know, being a chairbeing non-exec, you know it's
leadership, leadership,leadership.
But who do?
Who do you go to for guidance?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I've got a really lovely family for a start.
My mom especially I mean my momnorthern power mom, yeah she's
just amazing, um, and, and I can, I can really talk to her.
My other half, rob Rob, he's inleadership himself.
So we do have a kind of we kindof finish the day and we do a
kind of half hour of and thenit's and and and help each other
(09:49):
out with any challenges thatwe've got.
But I have coaches, um, I go toother chief execs so across the
hospices in our region we'vegot a really good network of the
chief execs and we gathertogether regularly and it's part
kind of planning and sharingand part therapy session.
So I think it's about havingpeople that you trust around you
(10:12):
, that you can kind of havethose conversations with.
But also my leadership teamwe're a really good, solid team
Very, very different individualsin the team and that's to be
really celebrated, that we dohave that difference and that we
will challenge each other.
But we're also really supportiveof each other as well, and
(10:33):
we'll kind of I'll get peoplesay, oh, you know, so-and-so's
just a bit low at the minute.
You might want to keep an eyeon them, and it's it, it's.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
it's really nice that we've got that as well so at
what point did you think why youwere listening to Sophie
Millican's fabulous uh by umpodcast that she does and you
went I'm gonna do this, I'mgonna all in.
Would you start even by writinga book?
Go on, one of Sophie's retreatsis probably what Sophie would
(11:01):
say well for me.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
I once I decided to do it.
It was relatively easy for meto write because it had kind of
written itself in my head overthe past 10 years and I kind of
went, okay.
So if I was going to do alittle book, what would the
little book be of?
And I thought, well, it's gotto be leadership lessons,
because one of the things thatI've realized, particularly over
(11:28):
the last decade, is that I havelearned a lot and I've been
through a lot and experiencedsome some real highs, but some
real lows in my career, and I'vebeen able to look back and
reflect.
I'm a real refle and I've beenable to look back and reflect.
I'm a real reflector and I'vebeen able to reflect on them and
go, okay, so what was thatactually about and what have I
learned from that?
(11:48):
Sometimes I've had to make thesame mistake a number of times
and then I've gone oh right,okay, yeah, remember you, you
learned that the first time andthen forgot it.
So it was really, really it wasalmost.
The hardest thing was medeciding what I was going to
leave out because I wanted it tobe a little book.
It is 10 lessons that I'velearned and really thinking well
(12:11):
, these are the ones that areapplicable to new leaders and to
established leaders.
These are the ones where Ithink actually the the story of
my experience is relevant andinteresting.
Um, but I also wanted it to bea little book in lots of ways.
I don't want it to be a bookthat's a real burden to read.
(12:34):
I've mentioned to some peopleabout you get a book and it's a
great big, thick tome andinstantly it puts me off.
It's overwhelming, yeah it is,and I haven't got time to be
reading that.
I haven't got time to bewatching tv series with 24
episodes in each series.
That's too much commitment.
So I wanted a little book and Iwanted something where you
(12:54):
could read a chapter sorry aboutthis on the loo it's.
You know what I mean.
It's that if any of us thathave had kids, it's that if you
manage to grab the time, that'swhat I used to do all the time.
I used to have a, a healthservice journal, which was a
trade magazine, when I was inthe health service and I used to
have that next to the toiletand I used to read it every week
(13:16):
.
Was it your safe space?
It was.
It was kind of like right, I'vegot time to, so the loo is for
you, but it's that type that Iwanted a like a 10 minute
chapter that people yeah andactually you don't even have to
read it front to back.
You can kind of go right ohthere's a, there's a chapter
there on imposter phenomena.
I want to read that, yeah, andbe able to just dip in and read
(13:36):
it and for it to beself-contained.
So, um, yeah, no, no stress, noadditional burdens for people,
just something that will help,hopefully and be interesting and
it's interesting when you talkabout them.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
You know often the lead, the learning, is about the
mistakes that you make alongthe way.
What is the if you can sharethe biggest, maybe leadership
mistake you've made on the way?
Oh sometimes it's also not justthe mistake, it's how you get
back from it, how you get backon track.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, there's, there's probably a couple, but
the one that, um, this is onethat I have made at least twice
and that's about excludingvoices.
So when I was quite a juniormanager, I did it twice, and it
was normally me being heavilyinfluenced by other people and
their opinions of people, and orthat person was just difficult
(14:32):
to work with, or whatever, and Ikind of I didn't exclude them
completely, but I sidelined themand what we did was we ended up
getting to the right place, butit was probably not as good as
it could have been.
Or we had to do a lot ofremedial actions to get there
and actually, in one of thosecases, the person that I
sidelined was a lovely person, areally genuinely lovely person,
(14:55):
and it still sits with me alittle bit that I might have
hurt them because they weren'tas included as they should have
been in the work that we weredoing.
So I do regret that.
Um, so now I say, even thoughit can be really really
torturous sometimes and you canbe it can be really personally
and professionally challengingto get different voices in there
(15:18):
.
I, I know the value of of doingthat and that sometimes people
can really stop you from goingcompletely the wrong way because
you've had them in the room andthey've said that really
difficult thing to hear, butyou've needed to hear it.
So that's that's probably thebiggest one that I would say is
(15:40):
it's really tempting and reallyeasy to go.
I will just leave, just notbother, including that because
they're going to say somethingor behave in a way that I don't
want to behave.
So we'll just get all of thekind of happy, supportive,
cheerleader-y people.
Absolutely the wrong thing todo, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
And what's the bit of advice that you find you always
pass on?
You know when you get asked.
You know what advice would yougive to your younger self, your
boisterous self?
I think I heard you talk aboutit on another podcast.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Well, there's two, but they're connected.
So the first one is that youare enough, yeah, and it doesn't
matter who you are or whatyou've done.
You could be, you know, youcould be chief exec of Microsoft
or you could be somebody who ishomeless you are still enough.
(16:33):
And you, as you are, areabsolutely enough.
And I wish more people believedthat, particularly more women
believed that.
Connected to that, andparticularly for professionals,
is you need to be really carefulabout the table that you sit at
, and it is actually a chapter.
You know, not every table feedsyou, and I've had experiences
(16:57):
where I've been asked to sit ata table and I've been really
flattered but I'm just like, wow, they want me to be involved.
This is great, and actually ithas been personally very
damaging and the reasons thatI've been asked to sit there
have maybe not been what Ithought they were or not what I
heard they were, because that'sthe other thing when somebody
(17:19):
asks you, you kind of go oh, andyou don't hear necessarily what
people are saying.
But also I think that peoplearen't necessarily prepared for
what you bring to that table.
so really be careful about whereyou choose to sit and the
tables you choose to sit at, anddon't believe this thing of oh
(17:40):
well, there's not many places attables.
That's what people want you tobelieve.
They want particularly, again,women, people of colour to
believe that there are very fewplaces at the table.
Absolutely not.
Don't be grateful yeah Well,it's that you need to be and
here and people become veryprotective when they think that
there's a limited number ofplaces at the table.
(18:02):
Your job, once you're sittingthere, is to think that there's
a limited number of places atthe table.
Your job, once you're sittingthere, is to make sure there's
plenty of space for other peopleto join and and that that.
So don't believe that scarcity,but be really picky about the
tables you choose to sit at.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I love that and I have seen, as at the start, you
know, since we first met at theawards and various power circles
, various events we've been at.
We were both.
We're not grateful we areenabled to be part of the
Northern Leaders list, whichwe're going to an event later on
(18:39):
tonight, aren't we?
I know this will come out afterthis is aired but it's, all
good.
What did that feel like?
To get that recognition,because you are very
accomplished and I see yougetting lots of recognition.
Does that sit comfortably withyou?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
It's always a surprise.
It probably sits better nowthan it used to, because I used
to really struggle withaccepting praise.
I still do with certain typesof praise, but that's not
because I don't believe it'strue.
I don't want people to thinkI'm better than them, because
(19:14):
I'm not.
I'm the same as everybody else.
I just do things in a certainway that lands well with certain
people.
So I don't want to get praisedbecause people are doing
themselves down.
But it used to be really,really difficult for me and I
used to dismiss it.
I used to do.
Oh, that's a mistake or it'sbecause they don't know about.
So now, when something like theNorthern Leaders, which did
(19:37):
come as a complete surprise,kind of out of the blue, was
really, really lovely, I do havemoments still amongst business
communities where I go, oh am Isupposed to be here?
And then I remind myself I runa large, multi-million pound
organization with 25 shops and,um, you know everything that's.
(19:58):
That's a heck of a business tobe running.
So, yeah, I absolutely dodeserve to be in those rooms,
but that's taken a lot of workfor me to get to the place where
I'm comfortable with it.
But always recognise thatthat's because I've got a
profile that I've got and thatthere'll be other people who
(20:19):
don't have that profile and aredoing absolutely fantastic work
and are deserving of fantasticwork and are deserving of
similar accolades.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And you drive.
You're very much someone wholikes to give back, whether it's
through your dance teaching andmaking a difference to the next
gen or just giving back, but bysetting up.
I think when we first chattedyou were right at the start of
setting up Black All Year.
What have you learnt most fromthat and tell us about it, and
what have you learnt most?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
Yeah, so Black All Year has been.
It's been a little bit I'mgoing to use the term journey
has been a little bit of ajourney In that originally it
was all about having live eventsthat people could join online.
So we'd do an hour, normallyover a lunchtime, have a guest
talking about topics that wererelevant, about the black
(21:06):
experience and it.
It was kind of a bit of a mixedaudience and I kind of oh, I
need to think who my audience is, and then I grew really
comfortable with having thatmixed audience.
So what, what I have is a, anaudience of people from the
black and ethnically minoritizedcommunity who are learning
stuff but who are also saying,yes, that's me, that's my
(21:31):
experience and I'm reallygrateful to have their
experiences aired as value.
If not more valuable, are peoplefrom kind of the white
community and organisations whohave said to me this has been
really useful.
I bumped into a chief exec of ahospice at a conference last
(21:53):
year and he came over and hesaid you're Steph, aren't you?
And I went yeah, and he said myteam and I listened to the
Black All Year podcast and wehave learned so much.
Thank you so much for producingit.
And that makes it allworthwhile.
Knowing that, even if just oneperson has learned something and
will change their practice andtheir behavior because of it,
(22:15):
that's all I ever wanted was forpeople to go all right.
I didn't know that and Iunderstand more now and as a
result of knowing, knowing thatI'm going to do something
differently and what would yousay is your superpower?
oh, my superpower, optimism, Ithink, especially in today's
(22:41):
climate, I think it has to be.
You know, I I could have saidenergy, but actually I get tired
just like everybody else and Iam very mindful of when I need
to rest and things like that.
Um, but yeah, I think optimismbecause, no matter how bleak it
gets, there's something in megoes.
(23:01):
But I can do something aboutthis, it can get better, we can
change this.
Um.
So, yeah, I have had,especially, like I say, recently
I've had quite a few momentswhere I've gone.
Why am I bothering?
Why am I doing?
Speaker 1 (23:13):
this.
I was at an event last week, afemale founders event, and there
was the question is who feelsoptimistic?
And I always, like yourself,optimistic.
Um, I couldn't put my hand upand, and I think it was, and I
actually said I'm caveating this.
This is a small wobble andprobably the first wobble I've
had in 10 years, but it's awobble and and.
(23:35):
But normally I'm like the oneat the first in, first in class
hands straight up.
How do you up?
How do you get yourself back ontrack?
I was fuelled by a room full offemale founders that you know I
could caveat to go.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
It's not going to last, this will pass, but it is
tough out there it is, and Ithink for me there's something
about so during the whole BlackAll Year kind of pushback in
kind of 2020-21, last summer,with the riots in the UK in
particular, that was reallypersonally very challenging and
(24:13):
terrifying.
The riots last year were perhapsthe most scared I've been.
That I can remember.
And I think there's somethingfor me about knowing that when
that optimism drops for me, it'snot that it's gone, I just need
a break.
And there's something aboutknowing that I can step back and
(24:36):
the others will step in to fillthe void.
I don't have to be the one thatfights every battle and every
cause.
So I know that there are a lotof people who are activists who
will step forward, and I've saidit to other women.
I've said look, take a break,sister, it's all right.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Just take a break.
It's okay, we're here, we'vegot this, and when you're ready,
come back, and I trust that Ican do that as well.
And then I take you know,normally it's about three hours
actually I'll go okay, I don'tneed to do this anymore.
And then I go all right, I'mready again.
Because I have the optimismwhen I know I don't have to, and
and kind of get over myself aswell.
(25:19):
The weight of the world is not,it's kind of sitting in my hand
to change.
So once I've done that and saidit's okay, I don't have to, I
can let other people do this,that kind of weight is lifted
and I find that the optimismthen comes back.
Or if not the optimism, thefight comes back, the power yeah
(25:43):
, steph.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Adusi, stepha, do see .
Power woman, northern powerwoman.
Northern leader.
Author, very excited aboutcoming on the book tour.
There's going to be one right,there has to be one, steph.
Thank you so much, uh, forcoming across and chat with you
today.
It's been, it's been too longand I look forward to seeing you
a few hours in newcastle lovely.
Thank you, step.
Subscribe on YouTube, apple,amazon Music, spotify or
(26:07):
wherever you get your podcasts.
Leave us a review or follow uson socials.
We are power underscore net oninsta, tiktok and twitter, or we
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