August 4, 2025 • 32 mins
The brilliant Siwan Smith joins the We Are PoWEr Podcast - this time as a 2024 Northern PoWEr Women Future List star, 2025 Awards judge, and an unstoppable voice for inclusion, courage, and creativity.
In this episode, Siwan opens up about surviving sexual assault and two brain tumours, and how therapy, family support, and fierce inner strength helped her rebuild not just her health, but her identity. Now Inclusion and Diversity Manager at Princes, she’s on a mission to make workplaces better - for colleagues, customers, and communities alike.
Siwan shares the emotional impact of physical changes, how she developed an eating disorder during recovery, and why her greatest healing came from small steps, honesty, and showing up for herself. She also reveals the unlikely joy she finds in Just Dance battles (which she always wins), and why her super PoWEr is thinking outside the box, especially when life refuses to play fair.
From pain to purpose, this is a story of perseverance, perspective, and the quiet power of not giving up.
In this episode:
Being named to the 2024 Northern PoWEr Women Future List
Judging the 2025 Northern PoWEr Women Awards
Surviving sexual assault and reclaiming identity
The healing power of therapy and small steps
Being diagnosed with a brain tumour on graduation day
Body image, weight stigma, and eating disorder recovery
Staying positive when life isn’t fair
Winning at Just Dance (and why her goddaughters won’t play anymore)
Her super PoWEr: thinking outside the box
Trigger warning: This episode contains discussions of sexual assault. Please take care while listening.
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast.
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(00:21):
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This is where you can hearstories from all of our awards
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Mpw Awards and we Are PowerNever imitated, never replicated
(00:42):
singularly wonderful,everybody's wonder girl.
Well, hello and welcome to thisweek's podcast.
This week, I'm delighted to bejoined by Siobhan Smith, who
Futurist 2024, and a judge forlast year's awards.
Welcome to the pod, thank you.
Welcome to our lovely tealcouch.
It's beautiful.
I love these.
Ran up the strand from thebeautiful Liver Buildings, the
(01:06):
home of Princess Foods.
Yes, it is.
Tell us about.
How would you describe yourrole in a couple of sentences?
I was going to be mean then andsay three words, and I thought
that's a bit tough, right.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, so I'm an inclusion and diversity manager
at Princess and really I lookafter people and think about
people in all that.
We do so from everything likewhat products that we make,
who's eating it?
Who's consuming it?
What do they want all the wayto our customers you know
Sainsbury's, tesco, what do theywant from a moral kind of
(01:38):
business?
And then to our colleagues,thinking about what are their
needs?
How do we make it a betterplace for them to work?
Speaker 1 (01:45):
so that's a different focus, isn't it?
For you, like people, hasalways been an EDI and and
thinking about what are theirneeds?
How do we make it a betterplace for them to work?
So that's a different focus,isn't it?
For you, Like people, hasalways been an EDI and inclusive
always been part of the timeI've known.
You has always been around that.
So that's quite a differentlens to look through then, isn't
it?
From the consumer?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, so I've always taken quite a holistic role.
So when I started my career inequality, diversity and
inclusion, it was very much inthe innovation sphere, so
thinking about how we buildproducts and services that
really cater to more people andmake them more accessible to
different people, and so I'vealways had that as a kind of
background on something thatI've really been interested in.
So just like loads of great casestudies from like L'Oreal
(02:22):
becoming like the number onefoundation after they increased
the different skin um productranges, that they offered um to
herbal essences and when theykind of put braille on the
bottles so that they can umindicate different um if there's
a shampoo or conditioner foranybody who can't see um.
But also like looking at theway that companies and
(02:42):
governments and localauthorities operate as well.
So there was a great example inI think it was Switzerland,
where they looked at trafficmanagement for when it snowed
and they found that actually theamount of accidents that
occurred tended to occur onschool routes, not on the main
(03:03):
highways.
So they were starting offclearing routes to make sure
people could get to work, andthen they figured that actually
that wasn't the first journey ofmost people, it was going to
school with kids so that theycould reduce the amount of
accidents if they actually tooka different, people-centric
approach.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So where did your passion for people EDI start.
So where did your passion forpeople?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
EDI start.
Oh, I don't know, it wasprobably really early on.
So I studied at university PRand events management, and you
were the first in your family togo to uni, weren't you I?
was the first in my family to goto university.
Yes, so yeah.
I went to study PR and eventsmanagement at the University of
Chester, which I absolutelyloved, and during one of the PR
modules we got to talking aboutCoca-Cola and Moss Kendrick and
(03:49):
how he looked at thedemographics and the way that
they were marketing the companyand thought about different
markets that they could lookinto so the African-American
market in particular and saidwe're not focusing on this
market at all, we don't targetthis market at all.
And then when they started toapproach that market and really
(04:11):
work with it, the company like,massively expanded and became.
You know, everybody knowscoca-cola and everybody can
understand coca-cola across theacross the world.
So I think that kind of capturedmy interest and really early on
, from a kind of PR perspectiveand thinking about who
businesses work with and whythey work with that and how they
(04:32):
think about consumers, a littlebit more.
But then I went on to dovolunteer work at Manchester
Pride, learnt about a wholedifferent community.
You know I'm not part of theLGBT community, but learning
about it, interacting within it,find out more about different
people and opening your eyes todifferent things is always just
(04:53):
been really interesting Are youled by data or are you just
inherently curious?
I am inherently curious but I'mfinding data to back it up.
I will usually come with atheory or what I think might be
the case and then I will doexploration.
And you know, last year Ifinished my master's degree
(05:14):
Congratulations, thank you verymuch and as part of that did a
kind of dissertation project inwhich I massively kind of
overestimated it.
So instead of looking at onedemographic group, I ended up
looking at four differentdemographic groups and having to
baseline that against kind ofmajority employee groups as well
(05:35):
.
But all of that, you know, Icame with a theory towards it
and then doing the research,capturing interviews, speaking
people, and some of it backs upwhat you initially thought and
some of it makes you questionyourself and question your own
kind of judgments, but in areally interesting way.
And I think it's that abilityto wonder and that ability to
(05:59):
want to know more and to dig alittle deeper and I think that's
always been my passion In howmany curious, nosy northerners.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yes, we always want to know everything, right, don't
we?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
and I like to know things and to be able to share
things um as well, so it's um.
I always say like in my role, Iam a researcher at heart.
If you ask me a question, nomatter what it's about, I will
go and do research and find outhow it impacts on different
people and find we'll try andfind the best route forward for
(06:35):
the majority of people and youhave worked across a number of
different sectors, haven't youlike?
A lot.
We've just talked about food,haven't we um?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
we've talked about innovation.
Oh, you't we.
We've talked about innovation.
Oh, you know, I know you'veworked in innovation.
You've worked in engineering,policing.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Police force yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And I think we first met you when you were in
Innovate UK.
Yes, is there a universalprinciple that you believe that
sits across every one of thoseroles that you've done?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I think probably the universal principle with regards
to equality, diversity andinclusion is think about others
within it, don't come with yourown worldview and be open to
learn and be open to be wrong.
I know I went into the policeand I went there and I was like
(07:28):
okay, so I think I understandwhat the problems are and how
we'll go about tackling them.
I didn't understand that jobrole at all.
I literally was in talking toconstables going so if we just
did this, and they were like no,the practicalities of the role
are X, y and Z and I'd be satthere going okay, so that
(07:51):
doesn't really match up what Ithought and they like took the
time a brilliant police force,brilliant people that I worked
with to explain how the jobworks on a practical, everyday
level.
And then you start building thepicture up from there and I
think that going into anyorganization from that point on,
(08:13):
I've never gone in and gone.
I have the solution.
I've gone in and gone.
I want to understand theproblems and then I can work to
establish what a solution may be.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
That's the way you work.
It starts with the batch pointof listening, understanding
curiosity again, and then goingright let's build the blocks.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, and not always thinking that you're right about
everything or there's oneapproach to everything.
You know, a lot of times we'llbe told that we need to think
about representation from thisperspective or things from that
perspective, and I always thinkactually there might be a
different problem.
That's the first thing to solve.
(08:53):
So, if I give an example of thepolice force, they were talking
about actually increasingethnic minority representation
among frontline police officers.
But inherently there's aproblem with trust within that
community, with the police, andan easier route is a, firstly,
community engagement, buildingthat relationship with the
(09:15):
police up positively, but alsostaff roles, bringing people
into the organization in a waythat they're not going to be
frontline, they're not going tobe part of the enemy community.
Um, to you know, to the fellowcommunity members, um, and I
think there's always differentapproaches, different ways that
(09:37):
you can see things and addressproblems and work with the
communities to be able to dothat.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
And I think we're always really passionate about
things being cross-sector andyou are literally a living and
breathing cross-sector, becausethere's always something you can
take, give or gain from eachsector, isn't there?
Absolutely yeah, and what isone of the most you're most
proud of in what you've doneBecause I know you've done
amazing things You've set areciprocal programme up at Arup,
(10:05):
haven't you?
Yes, that must have beenamazing, because there's
something so powerful in that.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
It is.
It was really, reallyempowering to see.
I have to say I love workingwith at Princes.
We established as part of oursocial mobility CRG, working
with schools and setting up amentoring program that way.
So I do love mentoring programs, but I think some of the more
inherent things that I've reallyenjoyed working on is I did a
(10:34):
helped shape violence againstwomen and girls project within
Merseyside police and somethingI'm really really passionate
about.
When I was 17, I was walkinghome from school and I was
sexually assaulted on the walkhome from school, and so it's
always been something that I'vethought it's a huge problem, it
(10:54):
affects loads of people and itneeds to be tackled, but there's
so many different ways to dothat, and so I was really kind
of excited to be part of asolution and work with
Merseyside Police to come upwith a programme that is looking
at that.
Obviously, there's still morework to do.
There's always going to be morework to do in areas like that.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
No one's ever there, are they no?
Um, and how do we make it nottick box?
Because we all know there's alot of tick boxing out there and
it's it's eye-rolling, isn't it?
Um how do we stop that?
How do we?
I think sometimes people thinkit's way more difficult than it
is.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
it is, and I I think sometimes people come with a set
plan and they go this is theroute forward.
And that's when it becomes tickbox exercise, when you start to
go, okay, this is what we mightdo, and let's listen to people,
let's get different perspectivesand let's try and put solutions
in place that don't just hidethe problem and that actually
(11:56):
get to the root of the problem.
And you'll often find thatdigging a bit deeper with
problems gets you to a pointwhere actually solving multiple
problems in the same scope.
So one of the things that I did, some listening circles in
Merseyside Police to talk toparticularly staff around what
(12:18):
they'd found around violenceagainst women and girls, and
some of them brought their ownperspectives, their own
situations, but others talkedabout the cases and the victims
that they'd worked with and whatthey saw as the problems, and
it was things like, you know,people being intimidated of
wanting to report something butnot wanting to walk into a
police station with othercriminals, you know, like being
(12:41):
checked in and things like that,or it's not a nice environment
for them to be in, they don'tfeel safe, they don't feel
comfortable.
And then you probably heard,maybe about a year or so ago,
that they've implemented betterways to be able to report, more
safe spaces for people to beable to go into, to be able to
(13:04):
confidently tell their story andtell what happened in an
environment which is morecomfortable, safer, you know,
more friendly and approachableto be in.
And obviously that's not alldown to what I did.
There's a whole massive projectteam that sat behind it.
But it's one of the things thatonce you dig into the problem
(13:27):
and you hear and you listen,then you can actually come up
with practical solutions thatwork better.
Would it be?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
okay to talk about your 17 year old experience.
What was your, what happenedand how did you cope and survive
?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, so it was.
I was 17.
As I said, I was walking homefrom school.
I left a bit later because Iwas actually going to wait for
friends, and then I decided Iwouldn't wait for them because
they were going to be a bitlonger in um, a rehearsal um.
So I'd left school around fouro'clock and I was walking home
(14:06):
along the main road, uh, butthat just happened to kind of
side on to a park area, and theprevious day I'd walked home
along the same route and thisyounger guy had approached me,
said something to me and saidsomething to the girl in front
of me, but kind of left, went on.
(14:27):
And then, when I walked homethat night and bear in mind it
was a slightly different time aswell he was there, said
something to me again and then Ithought I'd dismissed the
situation.
I was like, no, I'm notinterested, just leave me alone,
thought I'd completely kind ofdismissed the situation.
(14:51):
He'd kind of walked onto theside, but what I'd failed to
realize is he was positioninghimself on the outside of me so
that when there became a gap inthe, the fenced park area, he
pushed me in.
Um.
So I won't go into graphicdetail from that point onwards.
But I was quite lucky that itwas close to a main road so that
(15:14):
when I was screaming andshouting, actually people pulled
over, stopped, got out to helpme, um, but it never went any
further.
The police never caught the,the perpetrator, even though I
believe he went to the sameschool as me.
Um, he was never chargedbecause the person that I still
(15:38):
to this day would claim it iswas given an alibi by friends
and family of his whereabouts onthat day.
So never went any further.
No charges were brought against.
But it was a difficultexperience.
A lot of my personal belongingswere confiscated by the police,
(16:00):
obviously for forensic analysisand things like that, but I
never really got anything back,never got an outcome from that
kind of situation, and Ispiraled down into a period of
depression.
So I did kind of go and getcounselling during that period
and I've always the firstsessions, if you ever get
(16:21):
counselling, are the mostawkward and hardest sessions to
go through, because it's soawkward.
You're sat there with somebodythat you've never met before.
They're probing into verypersonal parts of your life.
They're asking you how you feelwhen you already feel, you know
, stressed, alone in certainthings, and then you get to
maybe the third or fourthsession and you start to process
(16:44):
things and you start to workwithin a what's within my
capabilities and what's withinmy control and how do I want to
live the rest of my life?
Um, so it took a while before Iwent to council and so I was
actually off school for a periodof about five, six months, um,
in total.
Because, as I said, um, theperpetrator actually went to the
(17:06):
same school as me, um, and gotto one of the sessions one day
and my counsellor was just like,so are you done with school?
Do you not want to go touniversity?
What is the kind of plan goingforwards?
And university was always mygoal.
(17:28):
I always wanted to be a CEO ofan organization Not got there
yet, but hopefully one day.
So I didn't want to give up onthat.
I didn't want my entire life tobecome this one moment in time
that I had no control over.
And she worked very, very wellwith me to come up with small
steps.
So she was like how would youfeel safe, like when you left
(17:52):
the house?
Where would you feel safewalking to?
And it was, you know first,like the end of my path the end
of the street.
Would you feel safe going alittle bit further if somebody
was with you and then kind ofworking with them within their
means?
And I think if anybody you knowhas struggled, I think therapy
(18:16):
is very, very worth it.
But you have to put in the work.
Nobody's going to come to youwith solutions.
They are going to come to youwith what's within your control
and how can you make it work.
And you're going to have to bethe brave one.
You're going to have to takethem steps, even if they're
small steps, to get to thebigger picture.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
What kept you on track?
You said you spiralled intodepression.
You've got a counsellor thatyou stuck with.
You said the first two or threewere awful, yeah, but you stuck
with it.
What else or who else was therefor you?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I mean, I've always had a really supportive family.
My mum is the best, um.
So, yeah, she, she reallyhelped, um.
But I think it was themotivation of I've always wanted
more from my life, so I didn'twant to just be like, okay, well
, now I'm not going to go touniversity, now I'm not going to
(19:08):
do more, now I'm going to kindof just get a rudimentary job or
, you know, not be able to workor anything like that.
I've always wanted to explorethe world, to do more, and
knowing that actually, if I letthat one moment claim me, that's
(19:28):
all I am.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
So, yeah, that's all I am.
So, yeah, wow, and one of thethings that you also.
You're a mentally determinedindividual, but you've also
survived two brain tumours.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yes.
So when I was at university andwhen I was at university, I
started to get sick for a periodof time and I didn't really
know what was happening.
I actually thought I was goingthrough the menopause Bear in
mind I was like 22 at the timeand I was going through really
hot flushes, I put on loads ofweight and my hair was thinning.
(20:10):
I was getting all these kindsof different symptoms and I'd
gone back to the doctorsconstantly over like a
three-year period, and alwaysbeing told no, no, no, it's
maybe polycystic ovaries, it'smaybe something else.
And it was just by sheer luckthat I had a doctor who'd dealt
with a patient or actually itwas a personal friend that she
(20:34):
knew who had the same conditionthat I did.
And it was a very, verythrowaway comment as I was just
about to leave the medical roomand so, like we talked about all
my symptoms around me puttingon weight, me losing my hair and
my skin kind of bruising andnot being um, quite right, me
(20:56):
joints and muscles aching andand all kinds of different
things like that, and it wasjust as I was about to leave the
room that, and I'm so gratefulthat actually, you know, my mum
was there as well and she wasjust like her face has just gone
really round, um, and that'snot like the shape of her face.
And she just went sit down, I'mgoing to send you for some
(21:19):
medical tests.
So I went for medical teststhat day.
The next day I got a phone calloff the doctor Can you come in?
Funnily enough, I was inSainsbury's at the time and I
was like well, you know, Irunning some, some stuff and I'm
getting um, some shopping in.
And the doctor was like right,okay, I need you to come in
today, and if I'm not here,because I might go on my lunch,
(21:42):
um, I'm gonna leave a packet atreception and I need you to like
read it, take your time with itand then go and follow my
instructions.
So so I was like okay, I'llprobably be there then in about
an hour, an hour and a half,turned up an hour and a half
later and went to the receptiondesk and she was like yeah, the
(22:03):
doctor's just stayed to see youGo right through.
And she was like your testresults indicate that you might
have Cushing's disease.
Now, cushing's disease is quiterare.
Probably a lot of peoplehaven't heard of it, but it
affects your cortisol levels andit can be brought about by a
number of different things.
(22:23):
So it can be overuse of kind ofsteroids that's something that
you're doing to yourself, um orit can be brought about by a
tumor in one of three differentareas.
I had a pituitary tumor whichis right at the front part of
your brain, controls quite a lotof your body's hormones, um, so
(22:45):
, um, yeah, they, they diagnosedme with that, which actually I
got told I had a pituitarytumour on the day of my
graduation, so I had possiblythe worst graduation day ever,
and then about a month later Iwent in to have it removed.
(23:06):
But by the time that I had itremoved, for anybody who doesn't
know, cushions is a bit of aprogressive disease and whilst
it is treatable and whilst thetumour is benign, if it's not
treated, if it's not cured, thenactually it can lead to dying,
and usually that's within abouta four-year period of your
(23:28):
symptoms occurring.
I was at probably about thethree, three and a half year
period at the time that actuallyI was diagnosed.
As I said, I've been going tothe doctors back and forth for
about three years with all kindsof symptoms and at the point
that I was treated.
(23:48):
I couldn't really walk, I'dlost all kind of muscles, my
hair was ridiculously thin, I'dput on absolute tons of weight
as a result of it.
So I still got problems withlike joints and muscle weakness
and energy levels at times.
(24:09):
But I've worked hard to try andovercome all of the other
aspects.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
How have you done that?
How have you worked hard?
Because this seems like somepretty serious, fundamental,
scary stuff that you've livedwith.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, I mean, obviously my neurosurgeon was
brilliant because he removed thetumour the first time.
I had a period of four or fiveyears where it was all okay and
then it did reoccur and then heremoved it a second time.
At that point he wanted to takemore preventative measures, so,
(24:45):
um, to do radiotherapy on meand but I couldn't get funding
to preserve my fertility if Iwent down that route, so he
opted not to.
I'm very, very fortunate thatit hasn't reoccurred to date, so
hopefully it won't.
But as I said it's, you put on alot of weight, you have a lot
(25:09):
of issues kind of throughoutyour body.
So diet, exercise, making surethat I'm conscious of you, know
my energy levels and what I canand can't do.
I'm making sure that I'm takingthe correct medication.
So I religiously stick to mydoctor's appointments for this.
(25:29):
I'm not the best with otherthings, but with my, my
endocrine specialist, I stick tohis appointments every six
months um to make sure that I'vehad all my bloods taken, to
make sure it's getting monitoredum in the correct way.
You know, if they tell me thatI need to take this tablet, um
for the next three months, Iwill religiously take it and
(25:52):
make sure who holds you toaccount when you're having that
moment.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You think I can't do all that.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Mum Well, no, actually.
So she gets on my back,probably about the smaller
medical things.
So you know, like you haven'tscheduled any dentist
appointments or things like that, whereas my endocrine, my
tablets, anything like that.
With regards to to the biggerone, I've always just kind of
(26:18):
gone.
I need to to do this myself.
I need to make sure that I'mfollowing this religiously,
because it was such a hard placefor me to be in and and you
know I talked about counselingbefore I actually had a period
of counseling, um, when I wasdiagnosed the first time because
(26:38):
my physical appearance hadchanged so much from what it
used to be when I was like ateenager, um, and I, like I
really couldn't cope with this.
So, aside from the fact that youknow, I was having problems
walking and my legs wereconstantly aching, to the point
where I'd wake up in the middleof the night screaming in agony,
and I've got actual scars allover the majority of my body and
(27:04):
you know things like my hairwas falling out, but it was the
physical aspects of the changesthat I saw to my body.
You know, that really impactedme, because they're the only
things most people see.
They're the only things mostpeople judge you on, don't see
what might be happening insideyour body and things that you
(27:26):
can and can't control.
So, you know, when I put onlots of weight, you constantly
get criticized, for you know,when I put on lots of weight,
you constantly get criticised,for you know she must not be
eating right.
You know she's lazy, she's notdoing enough exercise.
Yeah, and I, you know, when I'dgone back to the doctors, I was
saying to them I'm going to thegym, I'm going to the gym for
(27:47):
four hours every single day.
I'm eating 500 calories a day,that's it.
I developed an eating disorderat this point and I was like and
you don't believe me becauseI'm putting on weight, you don't
believe what I'm telling youlike, literally, I'm, I'm not
eating right, I'm overexercising.
(28:07):
And one of the first things myendocrine specialist said when I
had kind of joint meeting withmy neurologist, he was like you
need to stop exercising.
You are tearing your musclesapart and you're doing all kinds
of damage to your joints rightnow.
And he was like that's notgonna help you in the long run
how have you stayed so positiveand focused?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
actually, the determination, focus that I see
from you is boundless.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I think you know you've just gotta a get on with
things.
No one's going to save you,you've got to save yourself.
So I always think you know,yeah, just kind of get on with
it.
And actually I was talkingabout the endocrine specialist
before.
(28:58):
I did have a really down periodat one time and I went in and I
was like I don't drink, I don'tsmoke, I don't understand why
this is.
Yeah, I was like I don't drink,I don't smoke, I don't
understand why.
Yeah, I was like it's not.
And he just went life isn'tfair, get over it.
And I was like okay then, andit was, it was harsh, but it was
probably something I reallyneeded to hear at that point in
(29:20):
time.
He was like if you focus on whatisn't fair right now, you're
not gonna get to the point whereyou need to be, which is accept
it and figure out what you cando and work with it and try and
get better.
And because you're just gonnadwell, um, on the one one thing.
So I think I've always had thatkind of in the back of my mind
(29:40):
don't dwell, deal with thesituation and think about what's
next.
Think about what's in yourcontrol, what you can manage
what you can do, and I've alwaysbeen a very smiley person and,
I suppose, quite positive inthat regard, although if you ask
(30:00):
me mum, she will say I'm quitesulky and moody at home but one
of the things I know you ace, wemight have to ask your
goddaughter about, don't we?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
because I believe she won't.
The same thing she won't do nowisn't there?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
yeah.
So I absolutely love playing.
Just dance um, and I'mbrilliant at it.
I have to say I I will be veryhumble about most things, but
you're acing just I am brilliant, I just dance.
I will constantly get the kindof five stars, mega star, super
(30:33):
star kind of banners on it.
Um, and I've got twogoddaughters.
So I've got one who's nine whodoes dance classes twice a week,
every week, and she's abrilliant dancer she really is.
And then I've got one who's 19and I can be both of them all
the time and to the point wherethey actually won't play with
him your daughters won't playout with you anymore that's not
(30:57):
on, is it?
That's not?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
a final question what is your superpower?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
What's my superpower?
I will say probably trying tothink outside the box.
I think that's probably why I'min diversity, equality and
inclusion, because I don't justwant to come at things from my
perspective.
I like to think what's anotherway to do it, how can we solve
(31:24):
this and what would other peoplesay?
Speaker 1 (31:28):
think and that's what you said really early on,
thinking about others.
Yeah, that's what it's about.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I've been fundamental being curious.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Honestly, siobhan, what an amazing, amazing story.
Thank you so much for being sohonest and open and positive.
I um, I cannot wait to watchyou on your adventure as you get
to CEO.
Invite us to the table.
We'll be there, won't we?
Well?
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for sharing.
I know this will resonate withso many people, but thank you so
(32:00):
much for joining us.
Thank you for inviting me.
Subscribe on YouTube, apple,amazon Music, spotify or
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Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast.
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the podcast for you, your careerand your life.
We release an episode everysingle Monday with listeners in
over 60 countries worldwide,where you'll hear personal life
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(00:21):
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(00:42):
singularly wonderful,everybody's wonder girl.
Well, hello and welcome to thisweek's podcast.
This week, I'm delighted to bejoined by Siobhan Smith, who
Futurist 2024, and a judge forlast year's awards.
Welcome to the pod, thank you.
Welcome to our lovely tealcouch.
It's beautiful.
I love these.
Ran up the strand from thebeautiful Liver Buildings, the
(01:06):
home of Princess Foods.
Yes, it is.
Tell us about.
How would you describe yourrole in a couple of sentences?
I was going to be mean then andsay three words, and I thought
that's a bit tough, right.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, so I'm an inclusion and diversity manager
at Princess and really I lookafter people and think about
people in all that.
We do so from everything likewhat products that we make,
who's eating it?
Who's consuming it?
What do they want all the wayto our customers you know
Sainsbury's, tesco, what do theywant from a moral kind of
(01:38):
business?
And then to our colleagues,thinking about what are their
needs?
How do we make it a betterplace for them to work?
Speaker 1 (01:45):
so that's a different focus, isn't it?
For you, like people, hasalways been an EDI and and
thinking about what are theirneeds?
How do we make it a betterplace for them to work?
So that's a different focus,isn't it?
For you, Like people, hasalways been an EDI and inclusive
always been part of the timeI've known.
You has always been around that.
So that's quite a differentlens to look through then, isn't
it?
From the consumer?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, so I've always taken quite a holistic role.
So when I started my career inequality, diversity and
inclusion, it was very much inthe innovation sphere, so
thinking about how we buildproducts and services that
really cater to more people andmake them more accessible to
different people, and so I'vealways had that as a kind of
background on something thatI've really been interested in.
So just like loads of great casestudies from like L'Oreal
(02:22):
becoming like the number onefoundation after they increased
the different skin um productranges, that they offered um to
herbal essences and when theykind of put braille on the
bottles so that they can umindicate different um if there's
a shampoo or conditioner foranybody who can't see um.
But also like looking at theway that companies and
(02:42):
governments and localauthorities operate as well.
So there was a great example inI think it was Switzerland,
where they looked at trafficmanagement for when it snowed
and they found that actually theamount of accidents that
occurred tended to occur onschool routes, not on the main
(03:03):
highways.
So they were starting offclearing routes to make sure
people could get to work, andthen they figured that actually
that wasn't the first journey ofmost people, it was going to
school with kids so that theycould reduce the amount of
accidents if they actually tooka different, people-centric
approach.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So where did your passion for people EDI start.
So where did your passion forpeople?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
EDI start.
Oh, I don't know, it wasprobably really early on.
So I studied at university PRand events management, and you
were the first in your family togo to uni, weren't you I?
was the first in my family to goto university.
Yes, so yeah.
I went to study PR and eventsmanagement at the University of
Chester, which I absolutelyloved, and during one of the PR
modules we got to talking aboutCoca-Cola and Moss Kendrick and
(03:49):
how he looked at thedemographics and the way that
they were marketing the companyand thought about different
markets that they could lookinto so the African-American
market in particular and saidwe're not focusing on this
market at all, we don't targetthis market at all.
And then when they started toapproach that market and really
(04:11):
work with it, the company like,massively expanded and became.
You know, everybody knowscoca-cola and everybody can
understand coca-cola across theacross the world.
So I think that kind of capturedmy interest and really early on
, from a kind of PR perspectiveand thinking about who
businesses work with and whythey work with that and how they
(04:32):
think about consumers, a littlebit more.
But then I went on to dovolunteer work at Manchester
Pride, learnt about a wholedifferent community.
You know I'm not part of theLGBT community, but learning
about it, interacting within it,find out more about different
people and opening your eyes todifferent things is always just
(04:53):
been really interesting Are youled by data or are you just
inherently curious?
I am inherently curious but I'mfinding data to back it up.
I will usually come with atheory or what I think might be
the case and then I will doexploration.
And you know, last year Ifinished my master's degree
(05:14):
Congratulations, thank you verymuch and as part of that did a
kind of dissertation project inwhich I massively kind of
overestimated it.
So instead of looking at onedemographic group, I ended up
looking at four differentdemographic groups and having to
baseline that against kind ofmajority employee groups as well
(05:35):
.
But all of that, you know, Icame with a theory towards it
and then doing the research,capturing interviews, speaking
people, and some of it backs upwhat you initially thought and
some of it makes you questionyourself and question your own
kind of judgments, but in areally interesting way.
And I think it's that abilityto wonder and that ability to
(05:59):
want to know more and to dig alittle deeper and I think that's
always been my passion In howmany curious, nosy northerners.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Yes, we always want to know everything, right, don't
we?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
and I like to know things and to be able to share
things um as well, so it's um.
I always say like in my role, Iam a researcher at heart.
If you ask me a question, nomatter what it's about, I will
go and do research and find outhow it impacts on different
people and find we'll try andfind the best route forward for
(06:35):
the majority of people and youhave worked across a number of
different sectors, haven't youlike?
A lot.
We've just talked about food,haven't we um?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
we've talked about innovation.
Oh, you't we.
We've talked about innovation.
Oh, you know, I know you'veworked in innovation.
You've worked in engineering,policing.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Police force yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And I think we first met you when you were in
Innovate UK.
Yes, is there a universalprinciple that you believe that
sits across every one of thoseroles that you've done?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
I think probably the universal principle with regards
to equality, diversity andinclusion is think about others
within it, don't come with yourown worldview and be open to
learn and be open to be wrong.
I know I went into the policeand I went there and I was like
(07:28):
okay, so I think I understandwhat the problems are and how
we'll go about tackling them.
I didn't understand that jobrole at all.
I literally was in talking toconstables going so if we just
did this, and they were like no,the practicalities of the role
are X, y and Z and I'd be satthere going okay, so that
(07:51):
doesn't really match up what Ithought and they like took the
time a brilliant police force,brilliant people that I worked
with to explain how the jobworks on a practical, everyday
level.
And then you start building thepicture up from there and I
think that going into anyorganization from that point on,
(08:13):
I've never gone in and gone.
I have the solution.
I've gone in and gone.
I want to understand theproblems and then I can work to
establish what a solution may be.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
That's the way you work.
It starts with the batch pointof listening, understanding
curiosity again, and then goingright let's build the blocks.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, and not always thinking that you're right about
everything or there's oneapproach to everything.
You know, a lot of times we'llbe told that we need to think
about representation from thisperspective or things from that
perspective, and I always thinkactually there might be a
different problem.
That's the first thing to solve.
(08:53):
So, if I give an example of thepolice force, they were talking
about actually increasingethnic minority representation
among frontline police officers.
But inherently there's aproblem with trust within that
community, with the police, andan easier route is a, firstly,
community engagement, buildingthat relationship with the
(09:15):
police up positively, but alsostaff roles, bringing people
into the organization in a waythat they're not going to be
frontline, they're not going tobe part of the enemy community.
Um, to you know, to the fellowcommunity members, um, and I
think there's always differentapproaches, different ways that
(09:37):
you can see things and addressproblems and work with the
communities to be able to dothat.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
And I think we're always really passionate about
things being cross-sector andyou are literally a living and
breathing cross-sector, becausethere's always something you can
take, give or gain from eachsector, isn't there?
Absolutely yeah, and what isone of the most you're most
proud of in what you've doneBecause I know you've done
amazing things You've set areciprocal programme up at Arup,
(10:05):
haven't you?
Yes, that must have beenamazing, because there's
something so powerful in that.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
It is.
It was really, reallyempowering to see.
I have to say I love workingwith at Princes.
We established as part of oursocial mobility CRG, working
with schools and setting up amentoring program that way.
So I do love mentoring programs, but I think some of the more
inherent things that I've reallyenjoyed working on is I did a
(10:34):
helped shape violence againstwomen and girls project within
Merseyside police and somethingI'm really really passionate
about.
When I was 17, I was walkinghome from school and I was
sexually assaulted on the walkhome from school, and so it's
always been something that I'vethought it's a huge problem, it
(10:54):
affects loads of people and itneeds to be tackled, but there's
so many different ways to dothat, and so I was really kind
of excited to be part of asolution and work with
Merseyside Police to come upwith a programme that is looking
at that.
Obviously, there's still morework to do.
There's always going to be morework to do in areas like that.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
No one's ever there, are they no?
Um, and how do we make it nottick box?
Because we all know there's alot of tick boxing out there and
it's it's eye-rolling, isn't it?
Um how do we stop that?
How do we?
I think sometimes people thinkit's way more difficult than it
is.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
it is, and I I think sometimes people come with a set
plan and they go this is theroute forward.
And that's when it becomes tickbox exercise, when you start to
go, okay, this is what we mightdo, and let's listen to people,
let's get different perspectivesand let's try and put solutions
in place that don't just hidethe problem and that actually
(11:56):
get to the root of the problem.
And you'll often find thatdigging a bit deeper with
problems gets you to a pointwhere actually solving multiple
problems in the same scope.
So one of the things that I did, some listening circles in
Merseyside Police to talk toparticularly staff around what
(12:18):
they'd found around violenceagainst women and girls, and
some of them brought their ownperspectives, their own
situations, but others talkedabout the cases and the victims
that they'd worked with and whatthey saw as the problems, and
it was things like, you know,people being intimidated of
wanting to report something butnot wanting to walk into a
police station with othercriminals, you know, like being
(12:41):
checked in and things like that,or it's not a nice environment
for them to be in, they don'tfeel safe, they don't feel
comfortable.
And then you probably heard,maybe about a year or so ago,
that they've implemented betterways to be able to report, more
safe spaces for people to beable to go into, to be able to
(13:04):
confidently tell their story andtell what happened in an
environment which is morecomfortable, safer, you know,
more friendly and approachableto be in.
And obviously that's not alldown to what I did.
There's a whole massive projectteam that sat behind it.
But it's one of the things thatonce you dig into the problem
(13:27):
and you hear and you listen,then you can actually come up
with practical solutions thatwork better.
Would it be?
Speaker 1 (13:33):
okay to talk about your 17 year old experience.
What was your, what happenedand how did you cope and survive
?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, so it was.
I was 17.
As I said, I was walking homefrom school.
I left a bit later because Iwas actually going to wait for
friends, and then I decided Iwouldn't wait for them because
they were going to be a bitlonger in um, a rehearsal um.
So I'd left school around fouro'clock and I was walking home
(14:06):
along the main road, uh, butthat just happened to kind of
side on to a park area, and theprevious day I'd walked home
along the same route and thisyounger guy had approached me,
said something to me and saidsomething to the girl in front
of me, but kind of left, went on.
(14:27):
And then, when I walked homethat night and bear in mind it
was a slightly different time aswell he was there, said
something to me again and then Ithought I'd dismissed the
situation.
I was like, no, I'm notinterested, just leave me alone,
thought I'd completely kind ofdismissed the situation.
(14:51):
He'd kind of walked onto theside, but what I'd failed to
realize is he was positioninghimself on the outside of me so
that when there became a gap inthe, the fenced park area, he
pushed me in.
Um.
So I won't go into graphicdetail from that point onwards.
But I was quite lucky that itwas close to a main road so that
(15:14):
when I was screaming andshouting, actually people pulled
over, stopped, got out to helpme, um, but it never went any
further.
The police never caught the,the perpetrator, even though I
believe he went to the sameschool as me.
Um, he was never chargedbecause the person that I still
(15:38):
to this day would claim it iswas given an alibi by friends
and family of his whereabouts onthat day.
So never went any further.
No charges were brought against.
But it was a difficultexperience.
A lot of my personal belongingswere confiscated by the police,
(16:00):
obviously for forensic analysisand things like that, but I
never really got anything back,never got an outcome from that
kind of situation, and Ispiraled down into a period of
depression.
So I did kind of go and getcounselling during that period
and I've always the firstsessions, if you ever get
(16:21):
counselling, are the mostawkward and hardest sessions to
go through, because it's soawkward.
You're sat there with somebodythat you've never met before.
They're probing into verypersonal parts of your life.
They're asking you how you feelwhen you already feel, you know
, stressed, alone in certainthings, and then you get to
maybe the third or fourthsession and you start to process
(16:44):
things and you start to workwithin a what's within my
capabilities and what's withinmy control and how do I want to
live the rest of my life?
Um, so it took a while before Iwent to council and so I was
actually off school for a periodof about five, six months, um,
in total.
Because, as I said, um, theperpetrator actually went to the
(17:06):
same school as me, um, and gotto one of the sessions one day
and my counsellor was just like,so are you done with school?
Do you not want to go touniversity?
What is the kind of plan goingforwards?
And university was always mygoal.
(17:28):
I always wanted to be a CEO ofan organization Not got there
yet, but hopefully one day.
So I didn't want to give up onthat.
I didn't want my entire life tobecome this one moment in time
that I had no control over.
And she worked very, very wellwith me to come up with small
steps.
So she was like how would youfeel safe, like when you left
(17:52):
the house?
Where would you feel safewalking to?
And it was, you know first,like the end of my path the end
of the street.
Would you feel safe going alittle bit further if somebody
was with you and then kind ofworking with them within their
means?
And I think if anybody you knowhas struggled, I think therapy
(18:16):
is very, very worth it.
But you have to put in the work.
Nobody's going to come to youwith solutions.
They are going to come to youwith what's within your control
and how can you make it work.
And you're going to have to bethe brave one.
You're going to have to takethem steps, even if they're
small steps, to get to thebigger picture.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
What kept you on track?
You said you spiralled intodepression.
You've got a counsellor thatyou stuck with.
You said the first two or threewere awful, yeah, but you stuck
with it.
What else or who else was therefor you?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I mean, I've always had a really supportive family.
My mum is the best, um.
So, yeah, she, she reallyhelped, um.
But I think it was themotivation of I've always wanted
more from my life, so I didn'twant to just be like, okay, well
, now I'm not going to go touniversity, now I'm not going to
(19:08):
do more, now I'm going to kindof just get a rudimentary job or
, you know, not be able to workor anything like that.
I've always wanted to explorethe world, to do more, and
knowing that actually, if I letthat one moment claim me, that's
(19:28):
all I am.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
So, yeah, that's all I am.
So, yeah, wow, and one of thethings that you also.
You're a mentally determinedindividual, but you've also
survived two brain tumours.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yes.
So when I was at university andwhen I was at university, I
started to get sick for a periodof time and I didn't really
know what was happening.
I actually thought I was goingthrough the menopause Bear in
mind I was like 22 at the timeand I was going through really
hot flushes, I put on loads ofweight and my hair was thinning.
(20:10):
I was getting all these kindsof different symptoms and I'd
gone back to the doctorsconstantly over like a
three-year period, and alwaysbeing told no, no, no, it's
maybe polycystic ovaries, it'smaybe something else.
And it was just by sheer luckthat I had a doctor who'd dealt
with a patient or actually itwas a personal friend that she
(20:34):
knew who had the same conditionthat I did.
And it was a very, verythrowaway comment as I was just
about to leave the medical roomand so, like we talked about all
my symptoms around me puttingon weight, me losing my hair and
my skin kind of bruising andnot being um, quite right, me
(20:56):
joints and muscles aching andand all kinds of different
things like that, and it wasjust as I was about to leave the
room that, and I'm so gratefulthat actually, you know, my mum
was there as well and she wasjust like her face has just gone
really round, um, and that'snot like the shape of her face.
And she just went sit down, I'mgoing to send you for some
(21:19):
medical tests.
So I went for medical teststhat day.
The next day I got a phone calloff the doctor Can you come in?
Funnily enough, I was inSainsbury's at the time and I
was like well, you know, Irunning some, some stuff and I'm
getting um, some shopping in.
And the doctor was like right,okay, I need you to come in
today, and if I'm not here,because I might go on my lunch,
(21:42):
um, I'm gonna leave a packet atreception and I need you to like
read it, take your time with itand then go and follow my
instructions.
So so I was like okay, I'llprobably be there then in about
an hour, an hour and a half,turned up an hour and a half
later and went to the receptiondesk and she was like yeah, the
(22:03):
doctor's just stayed to see youGo right through.
And she was like your testresults indicate that you might
have Cushing's disease.
Now, cushing's disease is quiterare.
Probably a lot of peoplehaven't heard of it, but it
affects your cortisol levels andit can be brought about by a
number of different things.
(22:23):
So it can be overuse of kind ofsteroids that's something that
you're doing to yourself, um orit can be brought about by a
tumor in one of three differentareas.
I had a pituitary tumor whichis right at the front part of
your brain, controls quite a lotof your body's hormones, um, so
(22:45):
, um, yeah, they, they diagnosedme with that, which actually I
got told I had a pituitarytumour on the day of my
graduation, so I had possiblythe worst graduation day ever,
and then about a month later Iwent in to have it removed.
(23:06):
But by the time that I had itremoved, for anybody who doesn't
know, cushions is a bit of aprogressive disease and whilst
it is treatable and whilst thetumour is benign, if it's not
treated, if it's not cured, thenactually it can lead to dying,
and usually that's within abouta four-year period of your
(23:28):
symptoms occurring.
I was at probably about thethree, three and a half year
period at the time that actuallyI was diagnosed.
As I said, I've been going tothe doctors back and forth for
about three years with all kindsof symptoms and at the point
that I was treated.
(23:48):
I couldn't really walk, I'dlost all kind of muscles, my
hair was ridiculously thin, I'dput on absolute tons of weight
as a result of it.
So I still got problems withlike joints and muscle weakness
and energy levels at times.
(24:09):
But I've worked hard to try andovercome all of the other
aspects.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
How have you done that?
How have you worked hard?
Because this seems like somepretty serious, fundamental,
scary stuff that you've livedwith.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, I mean, obviously my neurosurgeon was
brilliant because he removed thetumour the first time.
I had a period of four or fiveyears where it was all okay and
then it did reoccur and then heremoved it a second time.
At that point he wanted to takemore preventative measures, so,
(24:45):
um, to do radiotherapy on meand but I couldn't get funding
to preserve my fertility if Iwent down that route, so he
opted not to.
I'm very, very fortunate thatit hasn't reoccurred to date, so
hopefully it won't.
But as I said it's, you put on alot of weight, you have a lot
(25:09):
of issues kind of throughoutyour body.
So diet, exercise, making surethat I'm conscious of you, know
my energy levels and what I canand can't do.
I'm making sure that I'm takingthe correct medication.
So I religiously stick to mydoctor's appointments for this.
(25:29):
I'm not the best with otherthings, but with my, my
endocrine specialist, I stick tohis appointments every six
months um to make sure that I'vehad all my bloods taken, to
make sure it's getting monitoredum in the correct way.
You know, if they tell me thatI need to take this tablet, um
for the next three months, Iwill religiously take it and
(25:52):
make sure who holds you toaccount when you're having that
moment.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You think I can't do all that.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Mum Well, no, actually.
So she gets on my back,probably about the smaller
medical things.
So you know, like you haven'tscheduled any dentist
appointments or things like that, whereas my endocrine, my
tablets, anything like that.
With regards to to the biggerone, I've always just kind of
(26:18):
gone.
I need to to do this myself.
I need to make sure that I'mfollowing this religiously,
because it was such a hard placefor me to be in and and you
know I talked about counselingbefore I actually had a period
of counseling, um, when I wasdiagnosed the first time because
(26:38):
my physical appearance hadchanged so much from what it
used to be when I was like ateenager, um, and I, like I
really couldn't cope with this.
So, aside from the fact that youknow, I was having problems
walking and my legs wereconstantly aching, to the point
where I'd wake up in the middleof the night screaming in agony,
and I've got actual scars allover the majority of my body and
(27:04):
you know things like my hairwas falling out, but it was the
physical aspects of the changesthat I saw to my body.
You know, that really impactedme, because they're the only
things most people see.
They're the only things mostpeople judge you on, don't see
what might be happening insideyour body and things that you
(27:26):
can and can't control.
So, you know, when I put onlots of weight, you constantly
get criticized, for you know,when I put on lots of weight,
you constantly get criticised,for you know she must not be
eating right.
You know she's lazy, she's notdoing enough exercise.
Yeah, and I, you know, when I'dgone back to the doctors, I was
saying to them I'm going to thegym, I'm going to the gym for
(27:47):
four hours every single day.
I'm eating 500 calories a day,that's it.
I developed an eating disorderat this point and I was like and
you don't believe me becauseI'm putting on weight, you don't
believe what I'm telling youlike, literally, I'm, I'm not
eating right, I'm overexercising.
(28:07):
And one of the first things myendocrine specialist said when I
had kind of joint meeting withmy neurologist, he was like you
need to stop exercising.
You are tearing your musclesapart and you're doing all kinds
of damage to your joints rightnow.
And he was like that's notgonna help you in the long run
how have you stayed so positiveand focused?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
actually, the determination, focus that I see
from you is boundless.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
I think you know you've just gotta a get on with
things.
No one's going to save you,you've got to save yourself.
So I always think you know,yeah, just kind of get on with
it.
And actually I was talkingabout the endocrine specialist
before.
(28:58):
I did have a really down periodat one time and I went in and I
was like I don't drink, I don'tsmoke, I don't understand why
this is.
Yeah, I was like I don't drink,I don't smoke, I don't
understand why.
Yeah, I was like it's not.
And he just went life isn'tfair, get over it.
And I was like okay then, andit was, it was harsh, but it was
probably something I reallyneeded to hear at that point in
(29:20):
time.
He was like if you focus on whatisn't fair right now, you're
not gonna get to the point whereyou need to be, which is accept
it and figure out what you cando and work with it and try and
get better.
And because you're just gonnadwell, um, on the one one thing.
So I think I've always had thatkind of in the back of my mind
(29:40):
don't dwell, deal with thesituation and think about what's
next.
Think about what's in yourcontrol, what you can manage
what you can do, and I've alwaysbeen a very smiley person and,
I suppose, quite positive inthat regard, although if you ask
(30:00):
me mum, she will say I'm quitesulky and moody at home but one
of the things I know you ace, wemight have to ask your
goddaughter about, don't we?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
because I believe she won't.
The same thing she won't do nowisn't there?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
yeah.
So I absolutely love playing.
Just dance um, and I'mbrilliant at it.
I have to say I I will be veryhumble about most things, but
you're acing just I am brilliant, I just dance.
I will constantly get the kindof five stars, mega star, super
(30:33):
star kind of banners on it.
Um, and I've got twogoddaughters.
So I've got one who's nine whodoes dance classes twice a week,
every week, and she's abrilliant dancer she really is.
And then I've got one who's 19and I can be both of them all
the time and to the point wherethey actually won't play with
him your daughters won't playout with you anymore that's not
(30:57):
on, is it?
That's not?
Speaker 1 (30:59):
a final question what is your superpower?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
What's my superpower?
I will say probably trying tothink outside the box.
I think that's probably why I'min diversity, equality and
inclusion, because I don't justwant to come at things from my
perspective.
I like to think what's anotherway to do it, how can we solve
(31:24):
this and what would other peoplesay?
Speaker 1 (31:28):
think and that's what you said really early on,
thinking about others.
Yeah, that's what it's about.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
I've been fundamental being curious.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Honestly, siobhan, what an amazing, amazing story.
Thank you so much for being sohonest and open and positive.
I um, I cannot wait to watchyou on your adventure as you get
to CEO.
Invite us to the table.
We'll be there, won't we?
Well?
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for sharing.
I know this will resonate withso many people, but thank you so
(32:00):
much for joining us.
Thank you for inviting me.
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