December 15, 2025 • 24 mins
In this episode, we speak with Aimee MacFadyen, a nuclear project manager showing that one of the most misunderstood sectors can also be one of the most exciting places to build a bold, meaningful career.
She demystifies what nuclear work really looks like, why safety standards are among the highest in any industry, and why the future of clean energy relies on trust, transparency, and diverse skills, not just engineers.
Aimee explains how she carved her own path into nuclear, through specialist education, an apprenticeship, and a move into project management while self-funding her degree.
We also dive into confidence, visibility, and the importance of speaking up early in your career, practical lessons for anyone looking to make an impact in competitive, high-stakes industries.
You’ll hear:
➡️ What nuclear work really looks like day to day
➡️ How apprenticeships create early credibility and real-world skills
➡️ Why nuclear’s safety culture is stronger than people assume
➡️ The sector’s skills gap and why new voices matter
➡️ How self-advocacy, preparation, and visibility accelerate your career
➡️ The power of role models, outreach, and saying “yes” before you feel ready
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
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(00:21):
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unknown (00:39):
Never imitated, never replicated, singularly
wonderful.
Everybody's wonderful.
SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
Well, hello and welcome.
And today I am joined by AmyMcFaddian with an MAC, according
to Grandad.
That's a whole other story.
And you're a project manager atCavendish Nuclear.
What does that look like?
SPEAKER_02 (00:59):
So we we focus on um sort of all different um life
cycles of nuclear.
So you look at right throughfrom sort of like nuclear fuel
production right through tonuclear decommissioning.
So for my job for projectmanagement, it's coming in and
sort of delivering themsolutions to the clients and
really trying to get to thebottom of what we can do from a
nuclear perspective to reachtheir goals.
(01:20):
And that sort of looks like arange of different clients at
the minute.
Um, you know, we've got EDF thatare coming on for all of the
nuclear new builds and lookingat that, and then you've got the
right end of the you know theother spectrum where you've got
a cellar field going intodecommissioning.
So really varied my role, Iwould say, actually.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
And how did you get into that?
Because it's it how what didyoung Amy want to do?
SPEAKER_02 (01:39):
Do you know what?
It really interestingly, I'vealways sort of known what I
wanted to do, and I know a lotof people sort of say, oh, you
know, I didn't really know whatI wanted to do, and I fell into
it, but I had quite like a driveto know what I wanted to do at a
young age.
So I think when I got to yearnine and we got to choose our
options, I knew that I wanted todo something that was a lot more
practical and hands-on than thannecessarily sort of the the
(02:00):
theory.
Um, but your options didn'treally allow you to choose that
in like a traditional school.
It was very much um, I thinkthey called it the
e-baccalaureate at the time, andyou had to pick um history or
geography and then a language,and it was very like a set set
of rooms.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Like in a pokeyball.
SPEAKER_02 (02:17):
Yeah, yeah, very much.
It was like, you know, you hadan option, but really not an
option, it was very limited.
Um, so I decided there was um anew school opening up in the
area, and it was specificallyfor like three pathways, so it
was engineering, business or IT,and that was all that that
school offered.
And it was very much you wentthere and you dropped all of the
(02:37):
subjects that you weren'tinterested in, and you picked up
the ones that you were.
So rather than doing a languageor religious education, which
again, you know, has its placefor some people, but it just
didn't resonate with me.
Um, I picked up resistantmaterials, engineering, um,
computer science, and thatreally sort of like shaped me
into knowing that's exactly whatI wanted to do.
SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
And what do you think you would have done if you
weren't able to have gone downthat eBAC route, if you like,
where you couldn't choose yourown sort of selections and you
had to stick with that A or B, Cor D.
What do you think that's becauseI always think there's a slide
indoors moment.
If I hadn't have done that, Imight have done that.
What did your what were the rolemodels around you kind of doing
(03:20):
or working at?
SPEAKER_02 (03:21):
Yeah, I mean, I suppose I had role models that
were in engineering.
So you know my dad was was basedin engineering, but then I had
also, you know, my stepmum wasin a sort of like the finance IT
and training, and so I I don'treally know where I would have
ended up to be honest.
And I think I probably wouldhave ended up a lot more
confused out of if I'd havecontinued down the route that
was, you know, not specializedand you didn't really have like
(03:42):
a set set purpose.
It wouldn't have led me intodoing because I think doing the
um the route that I did led meto do some work experience at
Sellafield, and then that tookme into doing an apprenticeship.
Whereas if I'd have done if I'dhave done just the standard
route, I don't think I wouldhave really known about
apprenticeships, and then Iprobably would have gone to
college, and then I've probablydone a bit more of like a
(04:04):
traditional academic route.
Um so I think it would havetaken me in a different
direction, but I don't know atwhat point it would have clicked
to me that that was my purpose,or if ever.
SPEAKER_01 (04:12):
And you came in, you talked about coming in through
as an apprenticeship.
That equally gives otheropportunities, doesn't it?
That a non-traditional route.
What what do you think the thekey things that you gained by
coming in through anapprenticeship route?
SPEAKER_02 (04:25):
Just really like people skills and learning to
adapt to a business.
So again, because that theschool that I went to for the um
the engineering pathway, theyreally wanted to replicate um
like a working environment.
So we did business hours.
We did eight till five everyday.
You got an earlier finish on theFriday, you came in in a suit,
it was a business suit that hadto be grey.
(04:45):
Um the teachers weren't Mr.
or Mrs.
You just called them by theirfirst name and it it really set
you up for a working in abusiness, yeah.
And I think being in anapprenticeship as well, you
know, although I'm I'm stillyoung, I've got 10 years working
in industry, and it's reallyallowed me to understand the
sector that I'm working inreally thoroughly.
(05:06):
You know, since being in fromlike 16, you start to pick up,
you know, what similar problemsare we having?
What, you know, where are wegoing to face the demands?
What are our gaps?
And the longer you have to dothat, the more it really sets
you up to be in the room withpeople and to be able to sort
of, you know, highlight topeople that you can bring, you
can bring a view and a value tothings.
(05:27):
And did you do a degreeapprenticeship?
No, so I did a um I did just a Ithink it was like a level four
apprenticeship.
So I went up to my HNC and thenum so I did four years at a
company called Nuvia, which iswho I did my apprenticeship
with.
I graduated and then did a yearin mechanical design, and then I
decided to actually pivot alittle bit and move into project
(05:48):
management, but I didn't wantI'd I'd got to the point of
doing my HMC, which was like alevel four, level five, and I
didn't really want to let thethe academic sort of fall
because I'd pivoted.
You know, I thought I'd got allof that way in mechanical
engineering.
Why would I just stop?
So I continued to just do mydegree in my own time.
So I just self-funded it, did itwhen I could do it, um, and then
(06:09):
graduated from that in 2023.
SPEAKER_01 (06:11):
So you work full-time?
Yeah.
Whilst doing your degree, whichyou got a first art, by the way,
I understand.
I've lost money hers.
But yeah, what do you think werethe biggest sacrifices along the
way?
Because that's a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (06:24):
I think personal more than anything.
I think, you know, I I'm very umI'm very driven and I know what
I want to do and when I want todo it.
But the problem is I l I almostsometimes put professional and
what I want to achieve ahead ofwhat necessarily I've got going
in my personal life.
So we we moved house the sameyear that I was studying, and
just a lot of that I just didn'thave the bandwidth width for, to
(06:46):
be honest.
Um but I knew that once I'd gotover that, the accomplishment of
getting your degree was worththe sacrifices that you were
making, you know.
So you you couldn't go out atthe weekend because you had to
watch that lecture, or you know,you you had less less time to
give to people, which feels hardwhen you necessarily, you know,
you can't say, Oh, I'm reallysorry, but I c I can't make that
right now.
(07:06):
It, you know, it's a sacrifice,but when you come out at the end
of it and you've got that, youknow, that degree and that's
something that you've done byyourself, completely like in
your soul, it just felt it feltamazing.
SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
Have you always been?
Because it's checks me likereally positive, driven,
focused.
This always been.
SPEAKER_02 (07:24):
I think so.
I think um I'm very um verymethodical, which I think why
project management spoke to meto be honest.
I I know I always sort of knewthat I wanted to have a plan and
then you know stick to thatplan.
And you know, sometimes I'vepivoted along the way, but you
know, I always everyone laughsat me.
In my personal life, I probablyhave like a whole programme
plan.
(07:44):
My poor partner can't breathebecause I'm like, the
spreadsheet says you should bedoing that on this, and you are
three days late.
So what are you gonna do aboutit?
SPEAKER_00 (07:52):
There's a gancha warning on that right now, Amy.
SPEAKER_02 (07:54):
There absolutely is.
It goes red, I've gotconditional formatting and
everything, which is incrediblysad, but yeah, I'd like to think
makes me a good project manager.
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
I love the fact that your project, you project manage
your personal life as well asyour 100%.
Yeah, that the man can'tbreathe, I'll be honest, without
me knowing.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
If you could just spell one myth about the nuclear
industry, because you've talkedabout, you know, cellophiles
decommissioning and you know,and some people might quite not
understand.
Yeah.
You hear about nuclear plantsand nuclear, but might not
understand.
SPEAKER_02 (08:27):
Yeah.
I think safety more thananything.
I think when you speak to peopleabout nuclear, you know, that
their initial thoughts is it'snot safe.
And I think people, you know,people quite rightly base that
on, you know, the the horribleinstances of Chernobyl and
Fukushima and you know, I Iappreciate that when nuclear
goes wrong, it goes wrong.
There's no denying it.
But actually, if you look at thestatistics of the nuclear
(08:49):
industry against, you know, theconstruction industry or just
generic, we actually have thelowest accident rates.
And that's because we're puttingall of these processes and
procedures in place to beregulated and to make sure that
we're following the proceduresbecause we appreciate if it goes
wrong, you know, we lose, welose that public buy-in.
Um, and that's so important fornuclear right now, you know.
But it's we always call it thenuclear revolution, and I think
(09:12):
probably need to stop calling itthat because we've been saying
it for years and it's neverreally sparked.
But we're coming to a positionnow where we've got all of these
new nuclear plants that aregonna come online, and we really
need the public to be behindthat, otherwise it it's not,
it's not gonna take off, and youknow, and there'll always be
this scare that nuclear's notsafe and that you know it it's
gonna affect lives, and butactually the jobs it creates,
(09:35):
the opportunities, I thinksometimes that gets passed by by
people being scared of it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
And what do you think that um emerging talent,
next generation, younger peoplecan bring into the nuclear
industry?
We talk a lot about STEM.
SPEAKER_02 (09:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:49):
But what do you think is they can bring?
SPEAKER_02 (09:52):
Just the diversity of thought more than anything.
I think you know, giving youngpeople a chance, and you know,
the nuclear industry has amassive um skills gap, you know.
I think and anyone can sort ofidentify that.
And, you know, in the days ofwhen it was sort of BNFL, where
it was they took on a fullcohort of apprentices, and then
they moved through.
And then BNFL sort of, you know,diversified and it became
(10:13):
different companies.
And people stopped recruitingapprentices and they stopped
doing, you know, STEM outreach,and and it happened for about 30
years, and then what happenedwas everyone realised you've got
a chunk of people all sat at thetop, nobody in the middle, and
then what you're gonna do isjust bring on these whole new
like cohort of apprentices, andthere's gonna be no one to train
them because you're gonna have aload of people ready for
(10:34):
retirement.
So we're in that position nowwhere we're really trying to get
over that, and you know, I thinkthe nuclear industry's been
really proactive in the lastcouple of years of bringing
people on, but it still doesn'tnegate the fact that there is a
gap that we're gonna have toclose, and if we don't bring
young people through, we're justgonna replicate the same things.
SPEAKER_01 (10:51):
And how do you do it whilst also acknowledging the
fact that the world of work ischanging and has changed, and
the expectations of um newtalent coming to the workplace
is it's it's different.
SPEAKER_02 (11:04):
It is a completely how does business get ahead of
this?
I think being into schools andbeing in schools early is such a
massive thing, and I think Iread a statistic and it was at
the um the Women in NuclearConference actually sort of
highlighted this.
And women by the age of sevenhave already decided what jobs
are acceptable for women andwhat jobs aren't, and that's
just a notion that's put intokids' heads from early on.
(11:27):
And I think people don't reallyunderstand, you know, you say
nuclear and everyone sort oftakes a step back and thinks
it's really specialised, youknow, I'm gonna have to have a
load of additionalqualifications to do it.
But the nuclear industry isn'tjust nuclear engineers, it's
document controllers, it'sproject managers, it's engineers
mechanical, EC and I.
It's anyone can go into nuclear,it doesn't need to be this and
(11:50):
the traditional services that gobehind.
So whether it's people, HR,payroll, all of that.
And I think people haveforgotten that, and we've become
like this bit of a well, if youdon't talk about nuclear because
it's it's top secret, why not?
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
Because we're just creating a bigger problem.
And equally, it wasn't until acouple of years ago that I
realised that Warrington,northwest of England, so not too
far from our HQ here.
About 10,000 people at work.
A massive hub.
Like this you can never sayanything to a job for life, but
it's right now the opportunitiesare there, right?
SPEAKER_02 (12:23):
Yeah, 100%.
I mean, so I've worked on soBertrid Park is the the one in
Warrington, and I've I startedmy apprenticeship there, I'm
currently working there at theminute.
And the same faces recycle, andthat's great, don't get me
wrong, it's lovely to see thesame people working for
different companies, but we needto bring more people along
because for the workload thatwe've got, we haven't got enough
people.
Um, and it's it's gonna again,we're gonna have all these
(12:46):
projects and all theseambitions, but we're not gonna
be able to deliver them if wehaven't got the people.
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
And part of this you talked about going into schools,
but equally speaking up andbeing visible in this, and and
this is something that you'vedone.
So for some people, um goinginto a a stage in front of
hundreds of people isterrifying, but it's something
you're quite comfortable with.
SPEAKER_02 (13:06):
Well, I've tried to get comfortable with it.
I think again, public speakingwasn't really one of my um my
strong suits, and from sort ofhaving mentors over the years, I
I've tried to do that and pushmyself out of my comfort zone,
but you're completely rightabout visibility.
If if people aren't visible andif we don't openly speak about
what we do because oh, it's topsecret and we'll keep it over
here, or you know, it no oneactually knows what you do, and
(13:30):
then therefore people peoplecan't be if they don't see.
Yeah, it's all about thatvisibility.
Um and I think that's why we arepower are great for that as
well.
You know, people don't then it'snot just nuclear, and again,
people that work in our industryare sometimes a bit closed into
staying in their own bubbles,whereas we are power of bringing
everyone together from alldifferent industries, and
(13:52):
actually there's a lot ofcross-learning there.
SPEAKER_01 (13:54):
Always.
This shouldn't be a competitivepiece, yes.
Of course, I know there's alwaysthe fight for talent, isn't it?
The fight for the best talent,but equally we should be we
should be passing those skillsand knowledge on, shouldn't it?
It should be a big knowledgeexchange.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
That's always a 100% the learning you can take from
from any industry's brilliant,why not do it?
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
But going back to you standing in front on a
stage, okay.
Does a spreadsheet come intoplay when you're prepping for
that?
How do you prep?
And what advice would you giveto anyone watching or listening
who's thinking, oh gosh, I'vebeen asked to do this?
I keep swerving it because Ifeel a bit about it.
But what would you say?
SPEAKER_02 (14:29):
Just push yourself out of your comfort zone.
And you know, and I think a bigthing for for me being able to
have them forums has been thementors that I've had over the
years.
So I think being on stage forthe the Northern Nuclear
Conference that I watched, youknow, Craig Hatch, who was um a
really big advocate for me at mylast company, pushing me to look
Craig, one of our Northern PowerWomen Awards 2024 inaugural
(14:50):
advocates.
Um yeah, just using your networkto get them opportunities and
don't shy away from it.
And you know, it might be thatthere's a lot of sleepless
nights, but prep, make you sure.
So again, poor Jordan, mypartner, had to sit through a
whole like TV presentationbefore I actually went to the
conference so that you couldsee.
(15:11):
Um but don't feel don't feelsilly either about ringing a
colleague and saying, Look, I'mdue to do this presentation, I'm
feeling a bit uneasy about it.
Please can you give me someconstructive feedback?
Because that's how you that'show you grow.
If you don't ask, you're nevergonna know.
And there's a lot of um, there'sa lot of times I've asked that
and somebody's given me feedbackthat I wouldn't have have picked
up from myself.
So yeah, pushing yourself out ofyour comfort zone is the is the
(15:34):
first thing to actually do it,but second, you know, keep doing
it once you've done it, don'tsay oh I've done it and put it
in a box.
SPEAKER_01 (15:40):
And you've done as you've talked about Craig, but
you've done a lot uh in yournomination as one of the
Northern Power Women uhfuturists, uh, but you've done a
lot um to inspire others.
Um what are you most proud of inwhat you've done, and what where
do you see you've made that bigdifference?
SPEAKER_02 (15:58):
I think again, it's just it's being visible to
people.
Um and I think for me, so I gotthe opportunity around two years
ago to go to France and speak atthe World Nuclear Exhibition,
which was absolutely surreal.
Um, and I did that through um apartnership.
So it was Women in Nuclear, andthey partnered with Women in
(16:19):
Nuclear England and NuclearWomen in France.
So you got a part like a mentorfrom France that had like a
senior position.
Um and I stood up on stage andgave a bit of a a speech of of
how what the programme had meantto me and ultimately what it had
brought.
And after I got off stage, therewas somebody that came over to
me and said, like, how do I getinvolved?
Because that you've said therethat public speaking didn't come
(16:42):
naturally to you, but it reallydidn't it didn't come off like
that, you know how um and sinceyou know we've been in contact
and she's gone on to theprogramme, and so I think again
just seeing that you've donesomething that you felt really
uncomfortable at the time, butbut actually somebody else has
then taken that and donesomething further with it, it
feels really into like proud,it's a proud moment.
(17:03):
What would you say is yoursuperpower?
I don't actually know.
Um I don't know, I I'd want tosay advo advocacy, um, just
being able to to advocate forpeople and give other people
opportunities because I've beenin a position where I've been
(17:23):
fortunate that somebody's donethat for me, and I think if you
don't pass that on or you don't,you know, uh extend that olive
branch to other people, who elseis is gonna do it?
Um so you know, I'm very vocal.
Um I'm not I'm not quiet by anymeans, but that's you know,
that's allowing me to makechange in the nuclear industry,
and you know, it's an industryas well that doesn't change
(17:45):
because it's it's usually slowerthan most industries, it's
slower paced, it's the samefaces.
And I think you've got to shakeit up to get any change.
You know, we're not gonna hitthese net zero targets that
everybody wants to hit.
If we don't shake it up, thatthere's there's no way it can't
be it can't be viewed through atraditional lens anymore.
We've got to think differently.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
And talk to me about the tall ship sailing challenge
that you went on.
Amazing! Slightly petrifying tome.
Have you got sea legs?
SPEAKER_02 (18:16):
No, it was it was it was so so scary.
So it was like um a bit a bigpirate ship that they called the
tall ship, and you had to sailit from um, I think we did from
Scotland through to Ireland, andit was over like the Irish Sea,
and it's oh wow, bouncy.
Oh yeah, it wasn't it wasn'tfun.
But they had you like doing allsorts of challenges as well, so
you had to climb up one of themasts and get to the top, and
(18:38):
and I am not, um everyone willknow me, I am not a risk adverse
person, I am not sporty.
So when they were like, okay,off you go, climb up that, climb
up the mast.
I was like, sorry, what?
No, me?
But you know what?
It was it was really good, andit was an opportunity as well
because you went on with um abunch of your different
colleagues as well.
(18:58):
So it was a really goodopportunity actually to see what
people's thinking process waslike outside of work.
Um and it's something I wouldhave never, I would have never
done it.
What did you learn most aboutyourself?
Probably that I need to stopbeing so risk-averse sometimes
and just do it because onceyou've done it, it's liberating,
you know.
Like I didn't want to climb tothe top of that mass, and I made
every excuse as to why Icouldn't.
(19:19):
But you did it.
But I did it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
And when I got down, I felt like we need to see
photographic evidence, is whatwe need to see.
SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
But yeah, I think just pushing yourself out of
your comfort zone.
And sometimes, you know, I dothat professionally, but maybe
not personally.
I sort of stay in my bubble.
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
So and what advice would you give to your younger
Amy?
SPEAKER_02 (19:39):
Um probably just to to to keep speaking up for what
for what you want.
I think um, you know, I've againI'm very good at um trying to
advocate for others, andsometimes I don't necessarily
like have the confidence inmyself or or bet on myself.
Um so just sort of doing that,because I think in the past
couple of years I've reallytried to change my mindset to
(20:02):
be, you know, if you can do thisfor others, you should be able
to do that for yourself.
And it feels uncomfortable,doesn't it?
It never feels nice, you know,talking about yourself.
It feels like you you you'rebragging a little bit.
Um so trying to push myself todo that a little bit more.
And I think if I'd have donethat a little bit earlier, I
maybe could have had some of theopportunities that I've had over
the couple of past couple ofyears a little bit earlier.
SPEAKER_01 (20:22):
And what do you do outside of work spreadsheets?
Yes.
Plan every instance of my life.
What's what's your what's yourdowntime or what's your side
hustle or what's your hobby?
SPEAKER_02 (20:38):
Do you know I don't really have like any really
in-depth personal hobbiesbecause I um I try and do quite
a lot in sort of volunteeringtime outside of work.
So again, I do a lot of umvolunteering with women in
nuclear, the young generationnetwork through the NI
Institute, which is it reallygood.
When I come home, sometimes Ijust want to switch off.
So I've got two little dash ons.
Um so yeah, just taking them fora walk, having a bit of a
(21:01):
decompress, and just trying tospend a bit of time for me as
well.
And do you have like a quotationthat you live by?
I wouldn't say quotation asmuch, just just again making
sure that um everything that Ido, trying to make sure that if
there's a barrier there, thatI'm breaking it down.
Because again, in in a lot ofinstances, I've been in
(21:23):
positions where something's feltlike you can't do that or you
can't say that, or and actuallyby breaking down them barriers
and and creating that visibilityfor yourself that you're okay to
challenge that, it it hopefullygives others a bit of a platform
to do it as well.
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
And what are you excited for looking forward, or
what would you like to achievein the future?
SPEAKER_02 (21:43):
So everyone will say that I'm a mad woman, but I
think eventually I'll move on todo a master's.
I've um I've taken time out, soI did my degree and then um I
get married in a month.
So I decided I was gonna getmarried, and then I might decide
what I do next academically.
SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
Wow, congratulations! How exciting.
Um petrifying.
No, no, I'm bet that is all overa spreadsheet.
SPEAKER_02 (22:04):
Oh, that is a mega spreadsheet.
That's like six tabs.
It's yeah, it's it's wonderful.
SPEAKER_01 (22:10):
Oh, congratulations.
Now we are about to delve intothe power jar.
Okay.
So the power jar is a questionthat one of our previous guests
have left for one of our futureguests to open.
Are you ready to go in?
I am.
Go on, Amy.
It's time to go in.
Where are you getting married?
SPEAKER_02 (22:29):
At Stale Lodge in Wilmslow.
Yeah, no, it's it's gonna belovely.
But yeah, I was in um, I'm inbecause it's like a month
before, it's now like panicstation.
SPEAKER_01 (22:38):
No, it's tick off a spreadsheet time, no.
It is, it is, you can imagine.
So, what do you have?
SPEAKER_02 (22:43):
I have if you had to give up everything you owned
except one thing, what would youkeep and why?
I love these questions.
I'll guess I'll be questions.
I probably should gosentimental, shouldn't I, and
pick a person?
But actually, I'm gonna go anobject.
Do you know what my Kindle?
I absolutely love reading.
If I if I had one thing, itwould be my Kindle.
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
What's your favourite book that you've do
you know?
SPEAKER_02 (23:07):
I read fantasy books, so I like I like the
different genres.
Um like anything by Sarah J.
Mas, basically, like throwing aglass.
Yeah, fantastic.
Um, yeah, that's probably thephysical thing, but then
obviously I probably should saysentimental would be my uh my
future husband, but I actuallywent for the Kindle first, so
that tells you everything youneed to do.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
There we go, we're on that desert island, Jordan.
Congratulations.
Amy, thank you so much forjoining me on the pod.
It's brilliant.
I love the it's the coming outof the comfort zone.
It's never forgetting to giveback and live by spreadsheet.
Definitely.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thanks, Amy, thank you so much.
(23:47):
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Hello, hello, and welcome to the We Are Power
Podcast.
If this is your first time here,the We Are Power Podcast is the
podcast for you, your career,and your life.
We release an episode everysingle Monday with listeners in
over 60 countries worldwidewhere you'll hear personal life
stories, top-notch industryadvice, and key leadership
insight from amazing rolemodels.
(00:21):
As We Are Power is the umbrellabrand to Northern Power Women
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This is where you can hearstories from all of our awards
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unknown (00:39):
Never imitated, never replicated, singularly
wonderful.
Everybody's wonderful.
SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
Well, hello and welcome.
And today I am joined by AmyMcFaddian with an MAC, according
to Grandad.
That's a whole other story.
And you're a project manager atCavendish Nuclear.
What does that look like?
SPEAKER_02 (00:59):
So we we focus on um sort of all different um life
cycles of nuclear.
So you look at right throughfrom sort of like nuclear fuel
production right through tonuclear decommissioning.
So for my job for projectmanagement, it's coming in and
sort of delivering themsolutions to the clients and
really trying to get to thebottom of what we can do from a
nuclear perspective to reachtheir goals.
(01:20):
And that sort of looks like arange of different clients at
the minute.
Um, you know, we've got EDF thatare coming on for all of the
nuclear new builds and lookingat that, and then you've got the
right end of the you know theother spectrum where you've got
a cellar field going intodecommissioning.
So really varied my role, Iwould say, actually.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
And how did you get into that?
Because it's it how what didyoung Amy want to do?
SPEAKER_02 (01:39):
Do you know what?
It really interestingly, I'vealways sort of known what I
wanted to do, and I know a lotof people sort of say, oh, you
know, I didn't really know whatI wanted to do, and I fell into
it, but I had quite like a driveto know what I wanted to do at a
young age.
So I think when I got to yearnine and we got to choose our
options, I knew that I wanted todo something that was a lot more
practical and hands-on than thannecessarily sort of the the
(02:00):
theory.
Um, but your options didn'treally allow you to choose that
in like a traditional school.
It was very much um, I thinkthey called it the
e-baccalaureate at the time, andyou had to pick um history or
geography and then a language,and it was very like a set set
of rooms.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Like in a pokeyball.
SPEAKER_02 (02:17):
Yeah, yeah, very much.
It was like, you know, you hadan option, but really not an
option, it was very limited.
Um, so I decided there was um anew school opening up in the
area, and it was specificallyfor like three pathways, so it
was engineering, business or IT,and that was all that that
school offered.
And it was very much you wentthere and you dropped all of the
(02:37):
subjects that you weren'tinterested in, and you picked up
the ones that you were.
So rather than doing a languageor religious education, which
again, you know, has its placefor some people, but it just
didn't resonate with me.
Um, I picked up resistantmaterials, engineering, um,
computer science, and thatreally sort of like shaped me
into knowing that's exactly whatI wanted to do.
SPEAKER_01 (02:58):
And what do you think you would have done if you
weren't able to have gone downthat eBAC route, if you like,
where you couldn't choose yourown sort of selections and you
had to stick with that A or B, Cor D.
What do you think that's becauseI always think there's a slide
indoors moment.
If I hadn't have done that, Imight have done that.
What did your what were the rolemodels around you kind of doing
(03:20):
or working at?
SPEAKER_02 (03:21):
Yeah, I mean, I suppose I had role models that
were in engineering.
So you know my dad was was basedin engineering, but then I had
also, you know, my stepmum wasin a sort of like the finance IT
and training, and so I I don'treally know where I would have
ended up to be honest.
And I think I probably wouldhave ended up a lot more
confused out of if I'd havecontinued down the route that
was, you know, not specializedand you didn't really have like
(03:42):
a set set purpose.
It wouldn't have led me intodoing because I think doing the
um the route that I did led meto do some work experience at
Sellafield, and then that tookme into doing an apprenticeship.
Whereas if I'd have done if I'dhave done just the standard
route, I don't think I wouldhave really known about
apprenticeships, and then Iprobably would have gone to
college, and then I've probablydone a bit more of like a
(04:04):
traditional academic route.
Um so I think it would havetaken me in a different
direction, but I don't know atwhat point it would have clicked
to me that that was my purpose,or if ever.
SPEAKER_01 (04:12):
And you came in, you talked about coming in through
as an apprenticeship.
That equally gives otheropportunities, doesn't it?
That a non-traditional route.
What what do you think the thekey things that you gained by
coming in through anapprenticeship route?
SPEAKER_02 (04:25):
Just really like people skills and learning to
adapt to a business.
So again, because that theschool that I went to for the um
the engineering pathway, theyreally wanted to replicate um
like a working environment.
So we did business hours.
We did eight till five everyday.
You got an earlier finish on theFriday, you came in in a suit,
it was a business suit that hadto be grey.
(04:45):
Um the teachers weren't Mr.
or Mrs.
You just called them by theirfirst name and it it really set
you up for a working in abusiness, yeah.
And I think being in anapprenticeship as well, you
know, although I'm I'm stillyoung, I've got 10 years working
in industry, and it's reallyallowed me to understand the
sector that I'm working inreally thoroughly.
(05:06):
You know, since being in fromlike 16, you start to pick up,
you know, what similar problemsare we having?
What, you know, where are wegoing to face the demands?
What are our gaps?
And the longer you have to dothat, the more it really sets
you up to be in the room withpeople and to be able to sort
of, you know, highlight topeople that you can bring, you
can bring a view and a value tothings.
(05:27):
And did you do a degreeapprenticeship?
No, so I did a um I did just a Ithink it was like a level four
apprenticeship.
So I went up to my HNC and thenum so I did four years at a
company called Nuvia, which iswho I did my apprenticeship
with.
I graduated and then did a yearin mechanical design, and then I
decided to actually pivot alittle bit and move into project
(05:48):
management, but I didn't wantI'd I'd got to the point of
doing my HMC, which was like alevel four, level five, and I
didn't really want to let thethe academic sort of fall
because I'd pivoted.
You know, I thought I'd got allof that way in mechanical
engineering.
Why would I just stop?
So I continued to just do mydegree in my own time.
So I just self-funded it, did itwhen I could do it, um, and then
(06:09):
graduated from that in 2023.
SPEAKER_01 (06:11):
So you work full-time?
Yeah.
Whilst doing your degree, whichyou got a first art, by the way,
I understand.
I've lost money hers.
But yeah, what do you think werethe biggest sacrifices along the
way?
Because that's a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (06:24):
I think personal more than anything.
I think, you know, I I'm very umI'm very driven and I know what
I want to do and when I want todo it.
But the problem is I l I almostsometimes put professional and
what I want to achieve ahead ofwhat necessarily I've got going
in my personal life.
So we we moved house the sameyear that I was studying, and
just a lot of that I just didn'thave the bandwidth width for, to
(06:46):
be honest.
Um but I knew that once I'd gotover that, the accomplishment of
getting your degree was worththe sacrifices that you were
making, you know.
So you you couldn't go out atthe weekend because you had to
watch that lecture, or you know,you you had less less time to
give to people, which feels hardwhen you necessarily, you know,
you can't say, Oh, I'm reallysorry, but I c I can't make that
right now.
(07:06):
It, you know, it's a sacrifice,but when you come out at the end
of it and you've got that, youknow, that degree and that's
something that you've done byyourself, completely like in
your soul, it just felt it feltamazing.
SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
Have you always been?
Because it's checks me likereally positive, driven,
focused.
This always been.
SPEAKER_02 (07:24):
I think so.
I think um I'm very um verymethodical, which I think why
project management spoke to meto be honest.
I I know I always sort of knewthat I wanted to have a plan and
then you know stick to thatplan.
And you know, sometimes I'vepivoted along the way, but you
know, I always everyone laughsat me.
In my personal life, I probablyhave like a whole programme
plan.
(07:44):
My poor partner can't breathebecause I'm like, the
spreadsheet says you should bedoing that on this, and you are
three days late.
So what are you gonna do aboutit?
SPEAKER_00 (07:52):
There's a gancha warning on that right now, Amy.
SPEAKER_02 (07:54):
There absolutely is.
It goes red, I've gotconditional formatting and
everything, which is incrediblysad, but yeah, I'd like to think
makes me a good project manager.
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
I love the fact that your project, you project manage
your personal life as well asyour 100%.
Yeah, that the man can'tbreathe, I'll be honest, without
me knowing.
SPEAKER_01 (08:14):
If you could just spell one myth about the nuclear
industry, because you've talkedabout, you know, cellophiles
decommissioning and you know,and some people might quite not
understand.
Yeah.
You hear about nuclear plantsand nuclear, but might not
understand.
SPEAKER_02 (08:27):
Yeah.
I think safety more thananything.
I think when you speak to peopleabout nuclear, you know, that
their initial thoughts is it'snot safe.
And I think people, you know,people quite rightly base that
on, you know, the the horribleinstances of Chernobyl and
Fukushima and you know, I Iappreciate that when nuclear
goes wrong, it goes wrong.
There's no denying it.
But actually, if you look at thestatistics of the nuclear
(08:49):
industry against, you know, theconstruction industry or just
generic, we actually have thelowest accident rates.
And that's because we're puttingall of these processes and
procedures in place to beregulated and to make sure that
we're following the proceduresbecause we appreciate if it goes
wrong, you know, we lose, welose that public buy-in.
Um, and that's so important fornuclear right now, you know.
But it's we always call it thenuclear revolution, and I think
(09:12):
probably need to stop calling itthat because we've been saying
it for years and it's neverreally sparked.
But we're coming to a positionnow where we've got all of these
new nuclear plants that aregonna come online, and we really
need the public to be behindthat, otherwise it it's not,
it's not gonna take off, and youknow, and there'll always be
this scare that nuclear's notsafe and that you know it it's
gonna affect lives, and butactually the jobs it creates,
(09:35):
the opportunities, I thinksometimes that gets passed by by
people being scared of it.
SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
And what do you think that um emerging talent,
next generation, younger peoplecan bring into the nuclear
industry?
We talk a lot about STEM.
SPEAKER_02 (09:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:49):
But what do you think is they can bring?
SPEAKER_02 (09:52):
Just the diversity of thought more than anything.
I think you know, giving youngpeople a chance, and you know,
the nuclear industry has amassive um skills gap, you know.
I think and anyone can sort ofidentify that.
And, you know, in the days ofwhen it was sort of BNFL, where
it was they took on a fullcohort of apprentices, and then
they moved through.
And then BNFL sort of, you know,diversified and it became
(10:13):
different companies.
And people stopped recruitingapprentices and they stopped
doing, you know, STEM outreach,and and it happened for about 30
years, and then what happenedwas everyone realised you've got
a chunk of people all sat at thetop, nobody in the middle, and
then what you're gonna do isjust bring on these whole new
like cohort of apprentices, andthere's gonna be no one to train
them because you're gonna have aload of people ready for
(10:34):
retirement.
So we're in that position nowwhere we're really trying to get
over that, and you know, I thinkthe nuclear industry's been
really proactive in the lastcouple of years of bringing
people on, but it still doesn'tnegate the fact that there is a
gap that we're gonna have toclose, and if we don't bring
young people through, we're justgonna replicate the same things.
SPEAKER_01 (10:51):
And how do you do it whilst also acknowledging the
fact that the world of work ischanging and has changed, and
the expectations of um newtalent coming to the workplace
is it's it's different.
SPEAKER_02 (11:04):
It is a completely how does business get ahead of
this?
I think being into schools andbeing in schools early is such a
massive thing, and I think Iread a statistic and it was at
the um the Women in NuclearConference actually sort of
highlighted this.
And women by the age of sevenhave already decided what jobs
are acceptable for women andwhat jobs aren't, and that's
just a notion that's put intokids' heads from early on.
(11:27):
And I think people don't reallyunderstand, you know, you say
nuclear and everyone sort oftakes a step back and thinks
it's really specialised, youknow, I'm gonna have to have a
load of additionalqualifications to do it.
But the nuclear industry isn'tjust nuclear engineers, it's
document controllers, it'sproject managers, it's engineers
mechanical, EC and I.
It's anyone can go into nuclear,it doesn't need to be this and
(11:50):
the traditional services that gobehind.
So whether it's people, HR,payroll, all of that.
And I think people haveforgotten that, and we've become
like this bit of a well, if youdon't talk about nuclear because
it's it's top secret, why not?
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
Because we're just creating a bigger problem.
And equally, it wasn't until acouple of years ago that I
realised that Warrington,northwest of England, so not too
far from our HQ here.
About 10,000 people at work.
A massive hub.
Like this you can never sayanything to a job for life, but
it's right now the opportunitiesare there, right?
SPEAKER_02 (12:23):
Yeah, 100%.
I mean, so I've worked on soBertrid Park is the the one in
Warrington, and I've I startedmy apprenticeship there, I'm
currently working there at theminute.
And the same faces recycle, andthat's great, don't get me
wrong, it's lovely to see thesame people working for
different companies, but we needto bring more people along
because for the workload thatwe've got, we haven't got enough
people.
Um, and it's it's gonna again,we're gonna have all these
(12:46):
projects and all theseambitions, but we're not gonna
be able to deliver them if wehaven't got the people.
SPEAKER_01 (12:50):
And part of this you talked about going into schools,
but equally speaking up andbeing visible in this, and and
this is something that you'vedone.
So for some people, um goinginto a a stage in front of
hundreds of people isterrifying, but it's something
you're quite comfortable with.
SPEAKER_02 (13:06):
Well, I've tried to get comfortable with it.
I think again, public speakingwasn't really one of my um my
strong suits, and from sort ofhaving mentors over the years, I
I've tried to do that and pushmyself out of my comfort zone,
but you're completely rightabout visibility.
If if people aren't visible andif we don't openly speak about
what we do because oh, it's topsecret and we'll keep it over
here, or you know, it no oneactually knows what you do, and
(13:30):
then therefore people peoplecan't be if they don't see.
Yeah, it's all about thatvisibility.
Um and I think that's why we arepower are great for that as
well.
You know, people don't then it'snot just nuclear, and again,
people that work in our industryare sometimes a bit closed into
staying in their own bubbles,whereas we are power of bringing
everyone together from alldifferent industries, and
(13:52):
actually there's a lot ofcross-learning there.
SPEAKER_01 (13:54):
Always.
This shouldn't be a competitivepiece, yes.
Of course, I know there's alwaysthe fight for talent, isn't it?
The fight for the best talent,but equally we should be we
should be passing those skillsand knowledge on, shouldn't it?
It should be a big knowledgeexchange.
SPEAKER_02 (14:05):
That's always a 100% the learning you can take from
from any industry's brilliant,why not do it?
SPEAKER_01 (14:11):
But going back to you standing in front on a
stage, okay.
Does a spreadsheet come intoplay when you're prepping for
that?
How do you prep?
And what advice would you giveto anyone watching or listening
who's thinking, oh gosh, I'vebeen asked to do this?
I keep swerving it because Ifeel a bit about it.
But what would you say?
SPEAKER_02 (14:29):
Just push yourself out of your comfort zone.
And you know, and I think a bigthing for for me being able to
have them forums has been thementors that I've had over the
years.
So I think being on stage forthe the Northern Nuclear
Conference that I watched, youknow, Craig Hatch, who was um a
really big advocate for me at mylast company, pushing me to look
Craig, one of our Northern PowerWomen Awards 2024 inaugural
(14:50):
advocates.
Um yeah, just using your networkto get them opportunities and
don't shy away from it.
And you know, it might be thatthere's a lot of sleepless
nights, but prep, make you sure.
So again, poor Jordan, mypartner, had to sit through a
whole like TV presentationbefore I actually went to the
conference so that you couldsee.
(15:11):
Um but don't feel don't feelsilly either about ringing a
colleague and saying, Look, I'mdue to do this presentation, I'm
feeling a bit uneasy about it.
Please can you give me someconstructive feedback?
Because that's how you that'show you grow.
If you don't ask, you're nevergonna know.
And there's a lot of um, there'sa lot of times I've asked that
and somebody's given me feedbackthat I wouldn't have have picked
up from myself.
So yeah, pushing yourself out ofyour comfort zone is the is the
(15:34):
first thing to actually do it,but second, you know, keep doing
it once you've done it, don'tsay oh I've done it and put it
in a box.
SPEAKER_01 (15:40):
And you've done as you've talked about Craig, but
you've done a lot uh in yournomination as one of the
Northern Power Women uhfuturists, uh, but you've done a
lot um to inspire others.
Um what are you most proud of inwhat you've done, and what where
do you see you've made that bigdifference?
SPEAKER_02 (15:58):
I think again, it's just it's being visible to
people.
Um and I think for me, so I gotthe opportunity around two years
ago to go to France and speak atthe World Nuclear Exhibition,
which was absolutely surreal.
Um, and I did that through um apartnership.
So it was Women in Nuclear, andthey partnered with Women in
(16:19):
Nuclear England and NuclearWomen in France.
So you got a part like a mentorfrom France that had like a
senior position.
Um and I stood up on stage andgave a bit of a a speech of of
how what the programme had meantto me and ultimately what it had
brought.
And after I got off stage, therewas somebody that came over to
me and said, like, how do I getinvolved?
Because that you've said therethat public speaking didn't come
(16:42):
naturally to you, but it reallydidn't it didn't come off like
that, you know how um and sinceyou know we've been in contact
and she's gone on to theprogramme, and so I think again
just seeing that you've donesomething that you felt really
uncomfortable at the time, butbut actually somebody else has
then taken that and donesomething further with it, it
feels really into like proud,it's a proud moment.
(17:03):
What would you say is yoursuperpower?
I don't actually know.
Um I don't know, I I'd want tosay advo advocacy, um, just
being able to to advocate forpeople and give other people
opportunities because I've beenin a position where I've been
(17:23):
fortunate that somebody's donethat for me, and I think if you
don't pass that on or you don't,you know, uh extend that olive
branch to other people, who elseis is gonna do it?
Um so you know, I'm very vocal.
Um I'm not I'm not quiet by anymeans, but that's you know,
that's allowing me to makechange in the nuclear industry,
and you know, it's an industryas well that doesn't change
(17:45):
because it's it's usually slowerthan most industries, it's
slower paced, it's the samefaces.
And I think you've got to shakeit up to get any change.
You know, we're not gonna hitthese net zero targets that
everybody wants to hit.
If we don't shake it up, thatthere's there's no way it can't
be it can't be viewed through atraditional lens anymore.
We've got to think differently.
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
And talk to me about the tall ship sailing challenge
that you went on.
Amazing! Slightly petrifying tome.
Have you got sea legs?
SPEAKER_02 (18:16):
No, it was it was it was so so scary.
So it was like um a bit a bigpirate ship that they called the
tall ship, and you had to sailit from um, I think we did from
Scotland through to Ireland, andit was over like the Irish Sea,
and it's oh wow, bouncy.
Oh yeah, it wasn't it wasn'tfun.
But they had you like doing allsorts of challenges as well, so
you had to climb up one of themasts and get to the top, and
(18:38):
and I am not, um everyone willknow me, I am not a risk adverse
person, I am not sporty.
So when they were like, okay,off you go, climb up that, climb
up the mast.
I was like, sorry, what?
No, me?
But you know what?
It was it was really good, andit was an opportunity as well
because you went on with um abunch of your different
colleagues as well.
(18:58):
So it was a really goodopportunity actually to see what
people's thinking process waslike outside of work.
Um and it's something I wouldhave never, I would have never
done it.
What did you learn most aboutyourself?
Probably that I need to stopbeing so risk-averse sometimes
and just do it because onceyou've done it, it's liberating,
you know.
Like I didn't want to climb tothe top of that mass, and I made
every excuse as to why Icouldn't.
(19:19):
But you did it.
But I did it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:21):
And when I got down, I felt like we need to see
photographic evidence, is whatwe need to see.
SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
But yeah, I think just pushing yourself out of
your comfort zone.
And sometimes, you know, I dothat professionally, but maybe
not personally.
I sort of stay in my bubble.
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
So and what advice would you give to your younger
Amy?
SPEAKER_02 (19:39):
Um probably just to to to keep speaking up for what
for what you want.
I think um, you know, I've againI'm very good at um trying to
advocate for others, andsometimes I don't necessarily
like have the confidence inmyself or or bet on myself.
Um so just sort of doing that,because I think in the past
couple of years I've reallytried to change my mindset to
(20:02):
be, you know, if you can do thisfor others, you should be able
to do that for yourself.
And it feels uncomfortable,doesn't it?
It never feels nice, you know,talking about yourself.
It feels like you you you'rebragging a little bit.
Um so trying to push myself todo that a little bit more.
And I think if I'd have donethat a little bit earlier, I
maybe could have had some of theopportunities that I've had over
the couple of past couple ofyears a little bit earlier.
SPEAKER_01 (20:22):
And what do you do outside of work spreadsheets?
Yes.
Plan every instance of my life.
What's what's your what's yourdowntime or what's your side
hustle or what's your hobby?
SPEAKER_02 (20:38):
Do you know I don't really have like any really
in-depth personal hobbiesbecause I um I try and do quite
a lot in sort of volunteeringtime outside of work.
So again, I do a lot of umvolunteering with women in
nuclear, the young generationnetwork through the NI
Institute, which is it reallygood.
When I come home, sometimes Ijust want to switch off.
So I've got two little dash ons.
Um so yeah, just taking them fora walk, having a bit of a
(21:01):
decompress, and just trying tospend a bit of time for me as
well.
And do you have like a quotationthat you live by?
I wouldn't say quotation asmuch, just just again making
sure that um everything that Ido, trying to make sure that if
there's a barrier there, thatI'm breaking it down.
Because again, in in a lot ofinstances, I've been in
(21:23):
positions where something's feltlike you can't do that or you
can't say that, or and actuallyby breaking down them barriers
and and creating that visibilityfor yourself that you're okay to
challenge that, it it hopefullygives others a bit of a platform
to do it as well.
SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
And what are you excited for looking forward, or
what would you like to achievein the future?
SPEAKER_02 (21:43):
So everyone will say that I'm a mad woman, but I
think eventually I'll move on todo a master's.
I've um I've taken time out, soI did my degree and then um I
get married in a month.
So I decided I was gonna getmarried, and then I might decide
what I do next academically.
SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
Wow, congratulations! How exciting.
Um petrifying.
No, no, I'm bet that is all overa spreadsheet.
SPEAKER_02 (22:04):
Oh, that is a mega spreadsheet.
That's like six tabs.
It's yeah, it's it's wonderful.
SPEAKER_01 (22:10):
Oh, congratulations.
Now we are about to delve intothe power jar.
Okay.
So the power jar is a questionthat one of our previous guests
have left for one of our futureguests to open.
Are you ready to go in?
I am.
Go on, Amy.
It's time to go in.
Where are you getting married?
SPEAKER_02 (22:29):
At Stale Lodge in Wilmslow.
Yeah, no, it's it's gonna belovely.
But yeah, I was in um, I'm inbecause it's like a month
before, it's now like panicstation.
SPEAKER_01 (22:38):
No, it's tick off a spreadsheet time, no.
It is, it is, you can imagine.
So, what do you have?
SPEAKER_02 (22:43):
I have if you had to give up everything you owned
except one thing, what would youkeep and why?
I love these questions.
I'll guess I'll be questions.
I probably should gosentimental, shouldn't I, and
pick a person?
But actually, I'm gonna go anobject.
Do you know what my Kindle?
I absolutely love reading.
If I if I had one thing, itwould be my Kindle.
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
What's your favourite book that you've do
you know?
SPEAKER_02 (23:07):
I read fantasy books, so I like I like the
different genres.
Um like anything by Sarah J.
Mas, basically, like throwing aglass.
Yeah, fantastic.
Um, yeah, that's probably thephysical thing, but then
obviously I probably should saysentimental would be my uh my
future husband, but I actuallywent for the Kindle first, so
that tells you everything youneed to do.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
There we go, we're on that desert island, Jordan.
Congratulations.
Amy, thank you so much forjoining me on the pod.
It's brilliant.
I love the it's the coming outof the comfort zone.
It's never forgetting to giveback and live by spreadsheet.
Definitely.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thanks, Amy, thank you so much.
(23:47):
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