Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:21):
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Mpw Awards and we Are Power,hello and welcome, welcome,
(00:48):
welcome this week.
I am delighted to be joined.
Where are we two years on?
Yeah, two and a half years onnow.
By Holly Alice, the ScouseScientist.
Now, when we last spoke, youwere using the hashtag mini
scouseitis yeah, just before ourlittle Ada was born.
How is?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
she, yeah, she's
absolutely amazing.
Um hard work.
I think motherhood is thehardest job I've ever had in my
life.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Um, but yeah, all
good and um just getting used to
the juggle of working and beinga mom and everything like that
and how do you describe, becauseon your instagram you talk
about, you know, scientists,you're, um, you talk about a dog
, mom, yeah, mom to ada.
Uh, how do you describe yourday job?
(01:37):
So your life?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
my well in terms.
So yeah, so professionally,obviously, I'm a clinical
scientist in the NHS in genetics, so that's like one part of it.
Then I'm obviously the scoutscientist on social media trying
to encourage more girls intoscience.
And then you go home and it'slike you start your next shift
now, don't you, of being a mumand all you know everything that
(02:02):
comes with that basically.
So it's hard work, but you know, I am lucky that I've got my
husband.
I've got my mum, mymother-in-law, good family
friends who, can you know,support me and allow me to do
things like that.
So I am.
I have to give credit to themas well.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
What was the what was
the moment where Scout
Scientist was invented?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Well, it was.
It was actually a while ago now.
So I first started this.
I always had the idea of Ialways wanted to be a science TV
presenter.
That's always what I wanted todo.
So throughout you know, my timeat uni and everything like that
, it was always in the back ofmy mind, but it was never quite
you know the right time.
And then I did a three.
(02:44):
After uni, I'd spent three yearstraining to be a scientist in
the NHS and then, once Iqualified, I thought right now
is now is the time I've sort ofgot my knowledge and my
expertise and now it's time toshare that.
And I just was trying to thinkof names and, um, the scout
scientist just stuck with.
Just it came to my head and Ithought it's gotta.
(03:07):
It's gotta be that, because somany people comment on my accent
and my accent's a big part ofof who I am and my story and why
people follow me and stuff likethat um, so I just thought it's
that's gotta be in there.
So it was 2020 now, so nearlyfive years ago, when I um, when
I first, you know, posted myfirst thing on on social media
(03:27):
well, I uh listen back to apodcast that you did with Leanne
Campbell.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
Oh yeah, um, and, and
I think it, I don't, it was
only, it was a video clip.
I think it started as, didn'tit, and then, all of a sudden,
because I remember she wasinterviewing you go, oh my gosh,
it's just been.
This has been picked up by themedia.
This is you.
You know.
It just went bonkers, didn't it?
From step one.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, it did.
So I put a few videos out andthen, all of a sudden, schools
were getting in touch becausethey were like please come into
my school, please come and do atalk, our kids would be so
inspired, and all of that.
And then, yeah, I was gettingasked to go on Radio Merseyside,
the podcast with LeanneCampbell.
I did podcasts with Tom Solomonat Liverpool University as well
(04:10):
.
So, yeah, it just sort ofsnowballed and I was made up
really, because that's what Iwanted, I wanted to get my
message out there.
And then, obviously, I had alittle break Well, a bit of a
longer break than I thought whenI I had aid and I was on
maternity leave.
I had all these ideas of what Iwas going to do and I did none
(04:31):
of.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I survived, basically
, I played back our pod from uh
2023, and it was like you knowwhat?
And I think what I'm going tobe able to do is I'm going to be
able to put more time into theScout scientists, because I
think you know, I know it'sgoing to be hard, but you know,
I think you know my mum will beable to look after it.
You know as well.
Yeah, so no, no.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I was so naive.
Looking back, I was so naivebut I think most people are
unless you've, you know, been inthe situation yourself and I
found it really, really hard.
I had a traumatic birth.
I had, you know, just a lot of.
I had birth trauma and a reallydifficult, a really difficult
(05:10):
time.
I think.
Looking back, I think I hadpostnatal depression and things
like that and it really hit itreally.
I really struggled.
You know, I've never I canhonestly say I've never really
had mental health problems.
I'm lucky in that um, until Ihad the baby and then, all of a
sudden, I was just felt so outof my depth you know, give me an
Oxford entrance exam any day.
(05:32):
I know how to deal with that.
I can revise, it's logical, um,I know exactly the steps I need
to do to to pass, but with thebaby, there's no manual, and
that's what I wanted really.
You know someone to tell mewhat to do, but it's so
illogical and you can't controlwhat happens.
You do all the right things butthen the baby still doesn't
(05:54):
sleep, or stuff like that, and Ithink that's what I personally
struggled with.
So how did you deal with that?
It was hard.
It just took time to, you know,get used to this new way of life
really, because I'm so allthrough school.
You know, I went to school, Iwent to uni, I did this, I did a
(06:14):
master's, then I did athree-year graduate scheme and
it was all very much.
This is what I want to do andthis is how I'm going to do it,
and I'm'm a very controlled,organised, logical person.
So this was just like well, thechaos of it was my worst
nightmare really.
You know, just like no routine,no sleep.
(06:36):
I just really struggled.
But, like I say, I am dead lucky.
I had so much support.
I had my husband, my mum, mymother-in-law, friends, family,
and it gets easier.
That's the only thing I can say.
And actually now, you know, theworst thing was people saying,
oh, enjoy every minute.
And I was thinking how can I beenjoying this?
(06:59):
I've had no sleep, I'm in agony, I've had an emergency
C-section and all this.
But I feel like I've justslowly learned, you know how to
deal with it, and that I am aperfectionist as well.
That's the other thing.
And there's no such thing asbeing perfect in motherhood,
(07:19):
because you've just constantlygot things to learn.
But I feel like I'm over theshock of it now.
But that first six months I'dsay was was really hard.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
What advice would you
give to yourself two years back
?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
I'd say just don't be
so hard on yourself, because I
wanted everything to be perfectand you know, at school I was
used to being, you know, top ofthe class in, without sounding
big-headed, you know, in mostthings, and I never really found
things hard or difficult, andthis probably was the first time
(07:52):
I really felt like this isreally hard.
I don't know if I can do this,if I'm cut out for this.
And I could see other peopleyou know other mums, friends of
mine just making it look so easyand I was thinking how can they
do it?
And I can't that sort of thing.
But I was again.
I was just being too hard onmyself and wanting everything to
(08:12):
be perfect all the time and Ithink if I'd have just been a
bit more laid back it.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
If I'd have just been
a bit more laid back, it
probably would have been a bitbetter.
But it's easier said than donereally, especially for me.
And there will be peoplewatching or listening today
going.
Oh my God, that's me, that's me, she's.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
OK, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
She's survived, and
being vulnerable is really
important.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, exactly, and
you know it.
Just for me it did get easierand I find it so much easier now
and enjoyable, but it was justa bit of a shock to the system,
I think, at the start.
Definitely.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
And you grew up in a
very powerful power women house.
Didn't you yeah With your mumand your nan?
Yeah, and they were big rolemodels for you, weren't they,
yeah, and made you believe youcould do everything.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah, exactly,
exactly.
And I'm so grateful to thembecause I never felt like, oh, I
can't achieve this or I can'tachieve that, because I was
always told from a young age,you can achieve anything you put
your mind to and, um, you know,my mum really did give me that,
that confidence that I made mebelieve that, um, but I know
some young people don'tnecessarily have that today and
that's why I'm trying to sort ofbe that, that role model of I
(09:21):
always say, you know probablysaid it last time if you, if you
can see it, you can be it.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
And it's just
providing that role model that
young people can relate to aswell, and I saw one of your
insta posts recently and it wastalking about the accents and
the it's the bias, isn't it?
That comes with the accents?
Yeah, so you the bias?
I think you talk about theLiverpool accent.
You're like be associated withcriminology.
Yeah, you know.
You look at the Birminghamaccent, you look at the London
accent.
It could all be associated withdifferent things and it's crazy
(09:48):
, isn't it?
How it's 2025, how is thisstill a thing?
There were more accents on theTV now.
Ever has been when I wasyounger.
It's proper proper BBC poshEnglish, probably like Oxford.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
I think it's just um,
you know it's like you say it's
it's all the stereotypes thatare associated with um, with
accents and, um, you know it's,it's putting barriers in in
front of young people.
Though, because I think, youknow, like you say, nowadays you
, there's a lot of um things wecan and can't say and obviously,
(10:23):
but with accents it's like justa joke.
It's seen as a joke, it's notseen as something that you
should be offended by.
And you know, sometimes I putvideos online saying that the um
, the stick I get for having ascouse accent, basically, and
you just get told to like, stopmoaning.
And you know, and I understand,it's not as serious as things as
(10:46):
you know, racism or anythinglike that, but class
discrimination and accent biasis real and it does affect young
people, because so many youngpeople have messaged me saying
they felt like they had tochange their accent when they
went to uni or when they appliedfor jobs, or they felt like
they had to tone down the accentbecause of how they'd be
(11:07):
perceived.
And, like you say, there'sloads of accents on the telly
now, but the Scouse accent, likeyou say, is predominantly
associated with criminality, andI love all the Scouse dramas
and all that.
I absolutely love them, butit's always you know the drug
dealer, always he'll be ascouser or something like that.
And if it's you know thescientist in a drama, it's not
(11:30):
someone who looks or sounds likeme, and I think that's where
where the problem lies.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
When you, because you
were the first in your family
to go to uni, and not going togo to any uni, you may as well
go to Oxford, right, yeah, what?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
was that like?
So I never thought I would endup going to Oxford, even though
you were acing everything.
Yeah, because it was justsomething that it wasn't on my
radar at all.
It wasn't even something Iwould have considered on my
radar at all.
It wasn't even something Iwould have considered, um.
(12:03):
But when I was at school, theteachers um.
So for sixth form I switchedschools and went to, went to
Bluecoat and they took me on aschool trip down to Oxford.
They took like the top 10% orwhatever of students down to
Oxford on a trip.
I was quite happy to go with myfriends.
Then when I came back, theyencouraged me to apply and I was
like, no, I had a great time,but it's not for me, it's not
(12:24):
for people like me.
You know, I'm not posh, I'm notrich, I'm not, I've got this
strong Scouse accent and Ithought no, it's just, it won't
be for me.
But thankfully they encouragedme to apply.
In the end end my mum said, oh,just apply, you probably won't
get in anyway.
Then that's your decision madeand I thought, oh well, yeah.
(12:45):
So I applied.
But then when I got in Ipanicked because of all those
reasons I've just said, Iabsolutely thought I wouldn't
fit in, I wouldn't have a goodtime, I wouldn't make friends,
um.
But I went, cried my eyes out,didn't want my mum, and my mum
and nan came with me.
Obviously um didn't want themto leave me and they told me to
(13:05):
just stay for one week and justgive it a try.
And I did and I absolutelyloved it.
After that first week I had thebest time.
I made friends, I fitted in um,and all those stereotypes just
didn't exist.
They were all in my head morethan anything else.
Don't get me wrong.
There were people there fromall walks of life, you know,
(13:26):
posh people from eating.
Really, really wealthy familiesdid completely different
upbringing to me, but no onecared, no one was bothered where
you were from and in my, myexperience, we'd all done well
enough to get in and get a placeand everyone just made friends
and got on with it.
And I was the resident scouserfor three years.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I think Like a
t-shirt for that or a tote bag.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
That one is, isn't it
yeah?
Speaker 1 (13:50):
definitely yeah, have
you got um thoughts as to where
Ada might go?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
I'd always.
I'd like to think I'd be likemy mum was and just let her do
whatever she wants.
I'm a scientist, my husband's apsychologist, but I'd want to
sort of show her as much aspossible and then she can pick
what she truly wants to do,because I think if you do that,
(14:15):
then your kids will be happy andthat's the most important thing
.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Now, if you had an
unlimited budget, um, and a
magic wand, what would youenable with the scalp scientist?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
um, so what I really
once, like I said at the start,
is I've always, always wanted myown science tv show because,
like I said before, thescientists that young people are
seeing in the media are oftenthe white posh, middle-class
male.
Just take me back to one ofyour.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Insta posts the
videos you with the crazy hair
on and the white lab coat.
But that's the perception,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
That's it Everyone.
You know I've done a lot ofthings going around to schools,
talking to kids and when I askthem what do you think of when
you think of a scientist?
That's what they think of.
It's getting a bit betterbecause there was a study
recently that showed um moreyoung people, when they're asked
to draw a scientist, more ofthem are drawing women now that
than what they used to.
So it's moving in the rightdirection, but it's still not
(15:18):
where I'd like it to be.
Um, and that's ultimately whatI'd like.
I'd like to sort of change theface of science and say you
don't need to look like this orsound like this, just Just be
yourself and you can still be ascientist, basically.
So that's the dream.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
That's the dream the
unlimited budget, the unlimited
time.
It could happen.
How would you describe yourselfin three words?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Oh, this is a
difficult question.
I'd say ambitious, like I'vesaid already, you know I like to
challenge myself and aim high,um kind.
I think that's really importantto me and something that I
pride myself on.
(15:59):
Um, probably like organized abit of a control freak really,
but I'll say organized instead,um, because that's sort of yeah,
but I'm trying to rein that ina little bit and social media is
a big part of your world.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah, how do you kind
of manage sort of the, the
storytelling, the role modeling?
Um, how do you balance thatwith being a wife, a daughter, a
mum, dog, mum.
Yeah, yeah, it's difficult.
What dog is it?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
She's a mini
Labradoodle, little cute Dixie.
So it is hard the juggle.
And you know, like all mostpeople know, most people, or
most mums especially, are alwaysjuggling things.
So it's not unique to mejuggling this.
I think loads of women do this,um, even women who haven't got
(16:55):
kids to juggle multiple thingsand they've got a lot of
responsibilities and things likethat.
Um, but it's just about for mewhen I'm in work.
That's it I'm.
I'm clinical scientist, holly.
I get my job done at work.
You know I have Mondays off now, not off because I'm doing my
other job of spending time withmy daughter, and but it's just
(17:15):
focusing, trying my best tofocus on one thing at a time and
then making sure you know whenI am with my daughter that
that's mine and her time and I'mnot sort of on my phone and
doing bits.
I do try and make sure I getthat quality time with her as
well and then, once she's in bed, if I'm not completely
exhausted, then that's when I'llstart with me, with my social
(17:38):
media stuff, as well, and socialmedia can be seen in some
environments as being toxic andit can be too much, and we're
always on our phones.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
but what is the
moment that from feedback from
the Scouse Scientist and fromyour account, that made you
really feel like you're makingthat difference?
Speaker 2 (17:52):
it's the, it's the
messages from, from the young
people that I get.
Honestly, it's, you know,sometimes you just think, oh,
what's what's the point?
Just forget it all.
Why don't I just, like we weresaying before, have a simple
life, go to work eight to four,come home, that's it.
You don't have all this stress,but it's like a passion inside
me that I enjoy it and I lovedoing it.
And yeah, it's really themessages from young people.
(18:15):
You know, I've had so manyyoung girls in particular
message me and say, oh, I've gota place at Oxford, but I'm from
Liverpool and I don't knowwhether to take it, or what do
you think I should do about it?
And all of this.
Or you know young people sayingyou've really inspired me and
now I want to be a scientist.
I never thought that that wasachievable or I never knew how
to do that, and it's that thatkeeps me going.
(18:37):
And don't get me wrong, socialmedia can be toxic.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
And.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
I've had my fair
share of trolls on there as well
.
But for me, the trolls get, youknow, get a lot of stuff about
my accent again.
Me, the trolls, again you know,get a lot of stuff about my
accent again saying can'tunderstand a word she's saying
and blah, blah, blah and allthis and all the negative things
about scousers.
But I, I'm just like you'reproving me pointy.
Yeah, this is a lot of exactlywhat I'm saying to those trolls
(19:01):
are just they're actually givingme more engagement in in some
cases, because then you getother people arguing back with
them and all stuff like that.
But they are proving my pointof this accent bias.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Do you engage with
them or do you just?
I'm not going down that hole.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
It's hard because
sometimes I have done and my
husband says don't give them theammunition just ignore them.
I wouldn't get into an argumentor anything like that.
But sometimes if I've hadsomeone say a name, I've
forgotten what.
The worst thing there were somereally bad ones, just about.
You know, spouses are all beingthick or something like that,
(19:40):
and I just put thanks, you'reproving my point back to them.
But maybe I shouldn't haveengaged.
I don't know, but I couldn'thelp myself that.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
So we talk a lot
about stem, don't we?
You know there's a lot of talkabout stem, but sometimes people
think that that's just not forme because it's a bit like
science that I don't associatewith the s.
Yeah, I don't associate withthe t.
I don't associate, yeah, butit's in everything we do, isn't
it?
Yeah, it's everywhere.
What?
What advice would you give outthere for young people who think
(20:11):
that's not for me?
Speaker 2 (20:12):
I think.
Just I'd say, like you say,it's in a lot more areas than
you think and you know it'sscience, technology, engineering
and maths.
But there's a lot of jobs otherthan just being a scientist or
being an engineer.
You know, technology nowadayswas surrounded by technology,
(20:33):
the use of AI, all of that.
So you could go, you could dosomething to do with that and go
down a completely differentroute.
There's so many options withinSTEM.
It's not just one thing, evenbeing a scientist you know, I'm
a healthcare scientist, ingenetics there's hundreds of
different types of scientists.
So I think, if you're lockedinto it, I'd just say don't,
(20:57):
don't like rule it out untilyou've learned a bit more about
it.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
And this is the
visibility of what you do is so
important, because if you can'tsee it like you say, you can't
be it.
What part has AI got to play inyour world?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
So it's a bit
difficult really at the minute
because it's so new and I thinkfor me, we in genetics or
genomics, we don't know how touse it.
Yes, for our the best of our,our ability, but I think it's
going to become huge.
So a lot of what we do isdiagnose some patients with
genetic conditions.
It's looking at the wholegenome, so looking at all 22,000
(21:32):
genes at once, to try andprovide patients with a
diagnosis that then they can usethat diagnosis to then have
successful treatments and so on.
And a lot of what we do istrying to work out what the
diagnosis is, because there'llbe a lot of differences between,
you know, for example, my dnaand yours, because that's what
makes you you and me me.
(21:54):
But it's working out whatchanges in that dna could be
contributing to this person'sillness.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And I think that's
where ai would be able to, you
know, speed up that process abit that's where it's exciting,
right, that's where theopportunity lies not to be fear
of it, yeah, but it's like yousay, it's the time, the time it
takes.
What is next for you and theand the Scouse scientists?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
so I've been putting
a lot of stuff on social media.
I've got Instagram, I've gotTikTok now which?
Speaker 1 (22:22):
I feel like.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I don't know how
other people feel, but I feel
like for people over 30 like me,it's hard to get to grip.
I feel like I sound like my mumand my nan saying this now, but
I finally know what they meantwhen you know they used to
struggle.
I remember showing my nanFacebook and stuff like that
Texting.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, exactly Texting
and abbreviations.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Yeah, so I feel like
a bit.
You know I'm trying to.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
If I'm trying to
reach young people, I need to be
on their platform.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
So that's what I'm
trying to build up at the minute
.
Same with YouTube um, I've got,I've signed a contract now with
a with a talent agency as well.
Yeah, so, um, that was after Idid a um radio appearance with
Radio Merseyside and theinterview was filmed and put on
social media and that just wentabsolutely viral and I was
thinking I've been doing thesevideos for five years and then
one 20 second clip getsliterally millions of views and
so from that um, it led todifferent opportunities and this
(23:20):
talent agency um asked me tosign with them.
So it's DML talent and they, um, basically, are going to try
and find me.
You know, work like thispodcast tv, anything anywhere
really where I can get mymessage out there and increase
the visibility of, of relatablerole models in stem 100 educate,
(23:41):
inform, make change.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
It's amazing
everything you're doing.
Uh, I'm so glad to have youback.
It's so good we're not doing itvirtual this time.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
I know we're doing it
on our couch.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I am looking forward
to seeing you on more sofas.
I don't think you'll be on asofa, I feel you'll be in a
studio.
You might get that wig outagain.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I don't know, but I
think.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
I can see it.
It's going to be looking going.
My mummy's a TV star.
That's what's going to happen.
So, holly, thank you so muchfor coming in.
You're amazing.
Please keep doing what you keepdoing.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Thank you so much for
having me.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
It's brilliant.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
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