We Dissent
We Dissent is a monthly law podcast hosted by two secular women, who are also attorneys at the Freedom From Religion Foundation and Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Join us as we discuss developments affecting the separation of church and state in the US Supreme Court and lower federal courts. We’ll also explore other advocacy work we do to help atheists and other nonreligious people outside the courtroom. We know there are so many atheist podcasts and legal podcasts and you have a lot to choose from, but we hope you’ll join us, the only legal podcast for atheists and agnostics hosted completely by women lawyers. We can’t wait to start these conversations.
Episodes
The third in the "unholy trinity” of religion clause cases from the current SCOTUS term. Liz and Rebecca discuss the case that sought to create the nation’s first Catholic public charter school and the surprisingly early decision issued by a divided Court. They explain how this case came to be, what the oral arguments revealed, and the high stakes of the case for our public school system.
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Liz and Rebecca continue the SCOTUS religion cases coverage with Mahmoud v. Taylor, a case that threatens to force public school districts to bend to the will of their most conservative religious parents. They discuss how the case came to be, what the oral arguments told us, and why this case actually is about book banning and censorship.
Background...
Liz and Rebecca break down the latest Supreme Court case, Catholic Charities Bureau, Inc. v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission. They explain how the case seeks to expand religious tax exemptions yet again, while threatening the unemployment benefits of thousands of workers. They share their analysis of the oral arguments and predictions on how the Court’s decision will affect workers.
Rebecca and Liz welcome Americans United Associate Vice President of Public Policy Dena Sher to the show to discuss President Trump’s spate of executive orders. Dena reminds us what executive orders are and we break down the ones that affect religious liberty and the separation of church and state.
Background
Liz and Rebecca take a break from the regular schedule to answer listener questions. They talk about how the founders viewed state/church separation, the issues our movement should focus on, and how to engage women in the cause of secularism.
Resources
SCOTUS is considering whether Tennessee's total ban on transgender medical care for minors violates the Equal Protection Clause, and Liz and Rebecca have some thoughts. They explain what the oral arguments last month revealed and what the stakes are for the real people who will be affected by the Court’s decision.
Background
Liz and Rebecca process the 2024 election results. They discuss the challenges the new administration will bring, some under-the-radar encouraging election results, and how their organizations plan to continue fighting for secular democracy in the months and years ahead.
Background
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca are joined by Jenifer McKenna to talk about the billion dollar crisis pregnancy center industry and its role in the anti-abortion movement. They discuss the massive harms caused by these unregulated fake clinics, Jenifer’s work on the first multi-state CPC investigation, and a new approach to exposing their unethical tactics and fighting back.
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca interview Sarah Posner, author and interviewer. They discuss the evolution of the Christian right, debate how to talk about Christian Nationalism, and break down the sky high stakes of this year’s election.
Show Notes
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Sarah’s ...
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca dig into Project 2025, the comprehensive transition project for the next conservative administration. They explain the project and illustrate the throughlines of its policy agenda— Christian nationalist ideology and the obliteration of the separation of church and state.
Background
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca speak with Wisconsin State Senator Kelda Roys. They discuss what it’s like to be a nonreligious lawmaker in today’s legislative world as well as the threat of Christian Nationalism to our secular democracy and civil rights like reproductive freedom.
Background
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca break down the 2024 Supreme Court term. They explain how the Court decided the two cases affecting abortion access, then they explain several other decisions of the Court that massively disrupt how the government functions and shift even more power away from the people.
Cases and Background
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca are joined by reproductive rights expert, political strategist, and advocate Maya Rupert. They discuss how the fight for reproductive justice is being waged post-Dobbs and why the personal has never been more political.
Background
Not two years after overturning Roe v. Wade, the US Supreme Court is considering a case that threatens to take the abortion pill, mifepristone, off the market. Alison, Liz, and Rebecca explain how the anti-abortion activist lawsuit started, how it got to the Court, and what we learned from the recent oral arguments.
Background
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca welcome guest Amanda Tyler, executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee and lead organizer of BJC’s Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign. They discuss the urgent threat that Christian nationalist ideology poses to American democracy, how nonreligious and religious Americans alike can fight back, and Amanda explains the strong historical tradition of supporting state/church se...
Join Rebecca, Alison and Liz for a journey through the history and principles behind the U.S. exempting churches from taxation! We discuss the practice of tax exemption for charitable organizations, including churches, the major cases about the constitutionality of these ideas, and abuses of the Johnson Amendment.
Background
It’s that wonderful time of year when Alison guides Rebecca and Liz through the upcoming legislative sessions in states across the country. We discuss upsetting trends in state legislation and bills we’re monitoring that affect the separation of church and state and threaten true religious liberty for everyone.
Background and Resources
Liz and Rebecca answer your burning questions on religious liberty issues and more! This episode, we reach into the mailbag and take on topics from YOU, our loyal listeners.
Background
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca interview Anaya Gayle—lawyer, ex-Mormon, and former BYU assistant dean. They discuss the power and influence the church wields and life for LGBTQ+ students at BYU, as Anaya shares her experience inside the insular LDS community.
Background
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More abou...
Alison, Liz, and Rebecca are joined by Professor Marci Hamilton, legal icon and leading expert on the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) and extreme religious liberty. Professor Hamilton explains the origin story of RFRA, how it has led us to the emerging theocracy we face, and what Americans can do to reclaim true religious liberty before it’s too late.
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