Episode 234: Heidi Smith, Ali Riley

Episode 234 of the Women's World Football Show features an exclusive interview with author Heidi Smith. 

Just when you think you know everything about women’s soccer, a book comes around to let us know that there is still so much more to learn! 

We take a deep dive into Heidi’s new book, “Play On: From Adversity to Advantage through 140 Years of Women’s Soccer.” 

We’ll also share soundbites from Angel City FC and New Zealand international defender Ali Riley announcing her retirement from soccer.

Links:
Get Play On by Heidi Smith on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Play-Adversity-Advantage-Through-Womens/dp/B0FPWZVBFJ/ref=sr_1_1

Connect with Heidi:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61577153087145Instagramhttps://www.instagram.com/kawehilani2/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/heidi-smith-06066814/

Website: https://heidismithwriter.com/

Learn more about the Diana B. Matheson Cup - https://www.nsl.ca/news/forged-for-the-future-the-diana-b-matheson-cup

More WWFShow Links:
Follow Women’s World Football Show on Facebook, Instagram, and our blog at wwfshowblog.com.

Listen to Women’s World Football Show on Apple Podcasts, iHeart Radio, Spotify, Spreaker, TuneIn Radio, Castbox, Stitcher, Soundcloud, and direct from our website at www.WWFShow.com.

Original Broadcast Date: October 12, 2025

Women’s World Football Show is hosted, written, edited, and produced by Patty La Bella.

Additional assistance for this episode by Heidi Smith, Ali Riley, and Lisa Milner-Goldberg at Angel City FC.

Women’s World Football Show website design and theme music by Patricia La Bella

Women’s World Football Show® is a registered trademark whose audio and logo cannot be used without written authorization.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hey, everyone, Welcome to episode two hundred and thirty four
of Women's World Football Show. I'm your host, Pattie. I
hope you're doing well. I hope you're staying healthy, staying warm.
Has the weather's turning into a more mild fall type weather.
I'm in southern California. We don't get that change of seasons.
But there's something in the air right as the seasons changed,

(00:31):
even though we don't feel weather wise. You know, they
going to Costco and they've got all the Christmas stuff out,
and you know people are decorating for harvest and Thanksgiving
and everything. So it's it's the vibes are in the air.
And one of the things I love about this time
of year, and maybe you feel it too. I get
these weird pumpkin cravings, like all of a sudden, I

(00:52):
want like a pumpkin spice latte or you know, pumpkin
creamer in my coffee. It's just very strange. But the
other thing I like to do, like as the weather's
starting to get cool or is start thinking about my
reading list, my winter time reading list, and I like
to stack up on my women's soccer books, as you know,
and I came across one that is really great. I

(01:14):
want to share it with you. It's called play On
From Adversity to Advantage through one hundred and forty Years
of Women's Soccer, and it's authored by Heidi Smith. Heidi
Smith is on the episode today, she's on our show.
I had a great conversation with her. This is such
an awesome book. I really really encourage you to add
it to your winter playlist or winter reading list, or

(01:38):
you know, put it on your Christmas list to her,
you know, or if you're giving a gift, think about
play On by a Heidi Smith, because it's a really cool, interesting,
eye opening book, and we're going to talk a lot
about it, so stay tuned for that. I can't wait
to share my interview with Heidi Smith, one of the

(01:58):
more fun interviews I have to say that I've had
in a while, really interesting fun. We'll be talking about
that in a minute. We'll hear from Heidi Smith. But first,
there's a lot of news in and around the world
of women's soccer. This is Women's World Football Show, by
the way, so we'll try to cover up some interesting

(02:19):
things going on. News and views of the world of
women's soccer. So let's start statewide, shall we. Angel CITYFC
they made a few additions to their ownership group recently.
Twelve time NBA All Star and Los Angeles Clipper point
guard Chris Paul is now part of the ownership group
over there Angel City. We're seeing a lot more male

(02:39):
pro athletes sending a former male pro athletes investing in
the women's game and especially in the NWSL actually talked
to Heidi Smith about this a little bit, because it
used to be people were investing just because they want
to help grow the game, or it was more like
a charity type of thing. But now they're investing because
it's a good investment, like they're getting their return on
their investment. Seen some ROI, some positive ROI, and so

(03:03):
Chris Paul part of that ownership group. You know, we're
seeing people like Patrick Mahomes and Eli Manning, Peyton Manning,
like Magic Johnson like investing in the NWS all throughout
the whole country. And it's not because they want to
do something good and they're feeling good about it. I'm
sure they do because they're investing in the women's game,
but also it's because they're making some money. You know

(03:23):
there's some money to be made in these investments now,
and it's so great to see, so love to see that.
Welcome to the NWSL CP three. I hope I see
you there at Bemo Stadium soon. And speaking of Angel
CITYFC star Defender, I don't know if you heard this already,
but Ali Riley, they're star Defender over there at Angel CITYFC.
She's a friend of the show, Angel City's first ever captain,

(03:47):
New Zealand national team star Stanford University alumni. She's recently
announced that she will retire at the conclusion of the
NWSL season, the twenty twenty five season. It's so sad
to hear her go, but completely understand. Ali Riley's extraordinary
career has spanned like nearly two decades. She had five

(04:09):
World Cup tournaments and four Olympic Games. She just made
a huge mark on women's soccer. I think her leadership,
her dedication, I definitely should mention her positive attitude and
infectious spirit. They've shaped the locker rooms, the mix zones
inspired teammates from her hometown of Los Angeles across the US,

(04:30):
as well as Germany and England and Sweden and New
Zealand of course and beyond. But this past year has
been a tough one as Ali has dealt with a
chronic nerve injury that sidelined her since the start of
the Paris Olympics. Back in July of twenty twenty four,
she fell victim to the recent LA fires. She lost
her home in that tragedy, and recently she sat in

(04:52):
on a press conference and I'm going to share some
snippets of that press are with you. I know you
want to hear from Ali Riley. She's such a fan favorite.
We'll do that at the end of the show, so
stick around for that. It's sad to see Ali hang up,
hang it up right. It's hard to see her walk
away from the game. She's been such a mainstay in
the sport for decades and such a huge, like I said,

(05:14):
such a huge personality. So stay tuned. We'll hear from
Ali in a bit.

Speaker 2 (05:18):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
By the way, The NWSL Championship is scheduled for Saturday,
November twenty second, twenty twenty five, at PayPal Park in
San Jose. Currently, as of this recording, the top of
the table for the NWSL is Casey, Current Washington Spirit,
Gotham FC, and Portland Thorns. But there's you know, there's
a few weeks says of this recording. You know, in

(05:40):
the season is still to go, so anything can happen.
I don't think much will happen, but anything can happen,
right hey. And by the way, if you haven't gone
to an NWSL championship match, I highly highly recommend it.
It's just so much fun. There's you know, this is
not like best of five, right, or best of seven.
This is one or done. The two top teams play

(06:01):
and it's just there's something in the air when the
championships take place. And if you've never been, a highly
recommend going, it's one of the most fun matches. Everything's
on the line, there's there's a lot of excitement in
the air, you know, fans make the track out and
it's just so much fun. And they're having it at
PayPal Park in San Jose, right the home of BAFC,
longtime home of the San Jose Quakes of the MLS,

(06:24):
and of course we've seen a lot of classic US
women's national team matches there as well. And also if
you didn't know, PayPal Park is home to of course
the famous scoreboard bar. It's the largest outdoor bar in
North America. So if you don't go for the game,
if you don't go for the excitement, if you don't
go for the experience, or if you don't go for

(06:45):
supporting the NWSL, go for the bar. It's like, it's amazing.
It's one of the I mean, you'll be you'll be
the hit on Instagram if you post a couple of
pictures of that bar. So great fun looking forward to that.
The twenty twenty five FIFA U seventeen Women's World Cup
is ready to kick off in Morocco as we're recording this.
The tournament consists of twenty four teams from six confederations

(07:09):
and will take place on October seventeenth. The final is
on November eighth. She'd be an exciting one with all
eyes I think on Spain and North Korea. I think
those are the two teams that we want to keep
it on. Also, you know, the US teams always when
you want to watch out for. And then also Canada.
You know, we keep an eye on Canada's U seventeen team.
And speaking of which, Canada Soccer recently announced the appointment

(07:31):
of Jen Hurst as head coach of the women's U
seventeen national team and also the women's youth Excel program lead.
So jen Hurst of course has been she'd been the
acting in the role earlier this summer leading up to
the CU seventeen. At the Four Nations tournament in Mexico,
Canada earned some strong results again some very tough competition.

(07:53):
I think they drew one to one with the USA,
they lost on penalties, they drew nil nil with Mexico. Oh,
they won on penalties, and then they defeated Costa Rica
to nil. So jen Hurst will continue to guide the
team through preparations and through the FIFA U seventeen Women's
World Cup in Morocco. So looking forward to that. I
hope the I was looking at the TV schedules. It's

(08:15):
hoping that maybe they show it on some major channels.
What looks like maybe you seventeen Women's World Cup. You
could probably pick up the matches on YouTube, but I
keep an eye out for it. I think the Fox
Network is going to be broadcasting those, so I'll keeping
an eye on that tournament. Oh and since we're talking
about Canada, the Northern did I just say, oh Canada.

(08:38):
I love when that happens oh Canada. The Northern Super
League is wrapping up their inaugural season. On November fifteenth,
history will be made. The first champions will be crowned
and when they are guess what they'll receive. They'll receive
the Diana B. Matheson Cup. It's the name of the trophy.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
It's a beauty.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
If you haven't seen it, I'll share a link for
an article on the trophy and the show notes because
it is really an impressive cup named after an impressive
person and player, of course, Diana Matheson, who co founded
the league. By the way, she never asked for the honor,
but I think across the league, among every club, there
was no question this trophy had to carry her spirit

(09:22):
in her name. I think that's just a great honor
to put on Diana Matheson because she's worked so hard
for this league. I'm sure she's really embarrassed by but
I mean that's a name that's going to go down
in history, especially as the NSL grows. And the final
will take place on November fifteenth that Bemo Field in Toronto.
The playoff berths have already been clinched. Top seed AFC

(09:45):
Toronto Ottawa Rapids, our friend Dez Scott's team, Montreal Roses
FC and Vancouver Rise FC. They've all punched their ticket,
says they say to the final in Toronto. I think
we'll be able to watch that on YouTube for sure,
and I get the link, I'll share it with you.
So looking forward to that. So let's look under the

(10:05):
rock for a minute. But let's take the rock off.
If you've been living under a rock, the segments for you.
Sometimes I live under a rock, you know, and I
have poked my head out and I'm like, hey, oh
that happened. When did that happen? So this is our
under the rock segment if you haven't heard. The Women's
Super League We're in England will expand from twelve to

(10:26):
fourteen teams from the twenty twenty six to twenty seventh season,
but the threat of relegation will remain. At the end
of next season, the top two sides from the second
tier WSL two will automatically be promoted, and then in addition,
the third place team in the WSL two will face
a playoff with the WSL's bottom side for place at

(10:50):
the top flight. So currently only WSL two winners earn
promotion with the bottom club in the WSL relegated. Essentially
one up, one down. So these are the changes that
will take place. I'm trying to make this as simple
as possible. It's and really not that complicated, but these
are the changes that will take place next season to
achieve the expansion of the league. So WSL two champion

(11:12):
automatic promotion, WSL two runners up automatic promotion, WSL two
third place will play a playoff match against the WSL
bottom club. However, that will change as the WSL expands
from twelve teams to fourteen teams for the twenty six
to twenty seventh season, so that helps them get to

(11:34):
the fourteen, right, That helps them because you're gonna put
essentially two up, one down, right, But that's only for
twenty six twenty seven season. From then onwards. From then forward,
go and move moving forward. There will be one automatic
promotion spot for the winner of the WSL two with
the bottom team of the WSL relegated. So'll be one up,

(11:56):
one down after next season. And we got to get
those fourteen teams up there first, and then the FA
will decide the next steps for the lower tiers. We'll
keep you posted on that. Okay, got all that. We'll
have a test at the end of the show, so
I hope you were paying attention. It's really not that confusing.
I hope I didn't make it really confusing. But just

(12:17):
know there'll be fourteen teams in the WSL next year
and then moving forward. You know how they get there
will change one up, one down, pretty simple. So now
you're under You're out from under the rock and we
can just get on with the show. Before we hear
from our featured guests. Though, author and women's officionado Heidi Smith,
I think we can call her an aficionado after all

(12:37):
the research and interviews and work that she put into
her book play On, I think that's okay to call
her that. Let's take a short break and come back.
We'll hear from author Heidi Smith. I think you're really
going to love this conversation. It's super fun. We'll be
back after this short break. Remember to stick around to

(13:16):
the end of the show to hear from Ali Riley
from her retirement press conference. That will be a fitting
ending to the show, I think. But first, I'm excited
to introduce our featured guests. That's such a great conversation
with Heidi Smith. I'm so looking forward to introducing you
to her. She's a former college soccer player from a
time that was very you know, it wasn't very popular,

(13:38):
and her love of the game and the history of
the game drew her to write this very creative, very
interesting book. I'm telling you, I can't put it down.
I've read through it. Now I'm going back and kind
of reading the little antidotes and the little stories. They
are such bite I call them bite sized stories, but
they really deliver a punch because the stories are so interesting.

(14:01):
It's not like you know. When I first got this book,
I was like, oh, another history book on women's soccer.
Like I know everything. There's not any stories that I
don't know. I'm so guilty of this. I'm sure maybe
you are too, if you've seen all the documentaries and
read all the books and have all the coffee table
books and Everything's like, what more could they tell me

(14:22):
that I don't already know? Well, then I started reading
this book and I was like, dang, I don't know anything.
There's so much I don't know. And the way that
she writes, you know, these stories and actidotes, it's really relatable,
Like she really brings it into the present. So you're
not reading a history book. I mean you kind of are,

(14:43):
but it's so the way that she writes is so
interesting and eye opening. Like I said, I was really impressed.
I was like, dang, she humbled me pretty quickly, like
there's a lot I don't know, and it was so
much fun learning some new things and about players that
I know and story that I have no idea. I
know the players, but I didn't know some of the

(15:04):
stories and and you know, are some of the behind
the scenes things that were happening in women's soccer over
the past few years. So let's hear from the author
of this incredible book. I think you're going to really
love it. Please welcome author of play On From Adversity
to Advantage Through one hundred and forty Years of Women's Soccer.
Please welcome author Heidi Smith. Hi, Heidi, thank you so

(15:26):
much for coming on the show. It's an honor to
have you here. I've been just devouring your book.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
Well, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Well, the book is called play On From Adversity to
Advantage Through one hundred and forty years of women's soccer.
I want to ask you about this title too in
a minute. But like I said, I just been to
I just love it. I see you have a lot
of books on your bookshelf, probably a lot of the
same ones that I have, so we're we love the
women's soccer books. But I have to say this is
very different, very unique. And actually somebody asked me recently,

(15:57):
you know, what's what's the book about? Tlenops having you on,
and I was like, well, you know what, It's kind
of like a history lesson seen through the lens of
today's game. I mean, I think that's kind of what
I'm getting from it. But tell us, when people ask
you what the book is about, what do you say,
how do you describe it?

Speaker 3 (16:16):
I say that it's one hundred and forty years of
women's soccer history through the lens of the advantage rule.
And that was just a metaphor that I uncovered as
I got into this research that if you look at
the rule in soccer that if you've been felled, but
you're still in a position to make an advantageous play

(16:37):
and you can keep going. It's like that really works
for this history because women have been felled again and
again and again through bands and media coverage and violence
and all of these things, but they've kept going and
here we are today. And so it's looking at history
through that lens. And then the chapters are really broken

(16:59):
down by specific things that are fouls in soccer, like obstruction,
like dangerous play, like delay of game, but tied to
specific historical events, and then also tied to examples of
players or teams playing on in spite of those obstacles.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
That's a great analogy. I was actually having a conversation
with my cousin, who is an old guy and he
loves sports, and he's like, you know, for some reason,
I really like watching the women's game. But he goes,
I don't know why, and I'm like, maybe because they play,
they can get knocked down and they come back up.
They're not flopping all over the place. But that that's
another But that's a great analogy. I've never looked at

(17:39):
it like that. So great, and we're going to dive
into the book, But first, tell us a little bit
about yourself, you know, and what's your own connection to
the game.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
Well, I started playing soccer, like a lot of people
in my generation. In around nineteen seventy two, I was
six years old and it was just kind of sweeping
suburban neighborhood. So I grew up in Silicon Valley and
just fell in love with the game. I played it
throughout high school, and I think, you know, at some

(18:10):
points in my life it was really the thing that
was working in my life, and so I think it
took on a little outsized meaning. And then I played
a bit in college. I was a red shirt in college,
and I was also a red shirt. I don't know
if we even used that. I was a red shirt
on the Hawaii State team after I moved over there,
and then I moved over to Washington State and coached

(18:33):
for a couple of years and was looking at I
was kind of toying with the idea of trying out
for a semi pro team in Seattle, and right about
then I really wiped out my knee when I was
twenty seven, and that was kind of the end of that.
But I still coached for a while and then SENSE
have really just followed the game and been thrilled to
see how events have unfolded, especially recently.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
I can't imagine the work that was put into this book.
It was such I would imagine such a huge undertaking.
What was the process, Like, do you have some challenges,
some high some lows?

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Well, yeah, I mean I think initially I just began
with this idea that women's soccer is changing the world,
and it's like, okay, well there's and then getting into
the research for that in interviews, it's like, this is
a massive concept, So how do we narrow this down
and focus it? And so eventually when I landed on

(19:28):
the play on metaphor that really helped to shape things.
I had pauses. Well, I was just kind of deciding
how to frame it and it took nine years. So
definitely it took a while, and I think that worked
out well because if I had published this nine years ago,
we would not be in the moment that we're in.
But yeah, definitely it's been a process.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
I always say timing is everything, Like it's you know,
it's just how perfect things happen in time. But was
there one particular story that kind of hooked you that
was said that kind of like blossomed into this idea
of writing, like all of the different stories and avenues
that you go down, was there one thing that kind
of inspired it.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
I don't know that I would say it inspired it
in the moment. But one of the first people that
I spoke with did not make it into the book,
but she really she led me to so many other things,
and that was Mary Harvey. Mary Harvey was the goalkeeper
for the US women's national team in nineteen ninety one
when they won their first World Cup, and she actually

(20:33):
met with me before as she believes Cup game in
Seattle back in twenty seventeen, and she had also been
the first woman director hired by FIFA, and she just
had so many stories and directed me towards so many
people that ended up in the book, and I just
there was a lot of history I had no idea
about that. She really kind of laid the foundation for

(20:56):
I would just love to share a brief Mary Harvey story.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Oh yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
Love it and it's just funny. One of the things
that she told me was that she after she graduated
from college, she moved to Germany and was working. She
was a consultant for like corporations on how to invest
their stocks and things, and on the side she was
playing for FSB Frankfurt. But it was at the time

(21:20):
it was like completely not something that respectable girls or
women didn't and so none of her colleagues knew that
she was playing soccer. And then her club team makes
it to the final, which is played in, as it
turns out, the Berlin Olympic Stadium in front of seventy
five thousand fans, and it's televised, and she is like
the keeper for this game that goes down to there's

(21:44):
two minutes left, and the referee calls a penalty kick,
and of course she's in goal and saves the penalty kick,
and so the crab goes wild, the media goes wild,
and then she walks into the office the next day
and all of her colleagues are like, I saw you
on televisions. So she's like the cats out of the bag.
And I just liked that story because it was indicative

(22:05):
of where things were in Germany in nineteen ninety one,
which I would have thought they would have been much
further along.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, and how hidden And this kind of leads me
into my next question and how hidden the game was
in the States. But yeah, that leads me into my
next question because in about the title. When I first
got this book, I was like adversitied advantage through one
hundred and forty years, and I was like, one hundred
and forty years. I'm that for a reason that stood

(22:32):
out to me as someone who's been around the women's
soccer for a long time and immersed myself in its history.
I thought I was a little I was a little
hmmm about that number, one hundred and forty years. But
I think it's because, well, first of all, we never
stopped learning, right, It's like, wow, I learned so much.
But I think it's because there's a lot that's been

(22:54):
hidden right or overlooked within the game. What was the
most surprised or even shocking story that you uncovered in
your research?

Speaker 3 (23:04):
Well, I think in terms of surprising, it's not surprising
now because the documentary Copa seventy one came out and
Serena Williams and some others produced that, and so a
lot of people are now aware that there was a
World Cup in Mexico in nineteen seventy one and prior
to that, in Italy in nineteen seventy. But when I

(23:26):
was researching this, I had no idea until I spoke
with Andrea Rodaba Guitron, who is the sporting director for
I'm going to get her title run sports director, I
believe for the Mexican Football Federation. And she told me
about this, and I was just completely floored because I'd
never heard of it. And I got into that research

(23:47):
and found out about that World Cup, and I kept
going and found out about these women's world invitational tournaments
that were happening in Taiwan from like nineteen seventy eight
to nineteen eighty nine. I had absolutely no idea about
those either. And it's just even our ninety nine ers
and the US women's national team had no idea about

(24:10):
this history. And so I think there are these things
that have just gone completely underground and are only surfacing now.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
This might be a loaded question for you, maybe a
little too deep for our little interview, but can you
share maybe at least like one example of how you
think adversity, you know, such as bands, lack of funding, bias,
has ultimately made the game stronger. When we talk about that,
sometimes people don't really understand what we're talking about. Can

(24:38):
you give like one example of how that has strengthened
the game.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
Well, what comes to mind is really the US women's
national team in their fight for equal pay, and there's
a moment and I'm not going to be able to
tell you exactly which fight they were in with US
Soccer at the time, but there was some combative negotiations
going on, and US Soccer did what it typically did

(25:03):
at the time, which was saying that if the players
were to boycott their upcoming tournament, then they would just
go past them and bring in the U twenty team
or bring in the U nineteen team or just that.
It's like kind of the message being that, well, you're replaceable,
and if you don't want to deal with the wages

(25:24):
that we pay you, we'll just bypass you and go
to the next level. And the senior women's national team
just created It wasn't like a phone tree, but they
basically everybody had a responsibility, and they picked up the
phone and they called every single member of the U
twenty women's national team, the U seventeen, the U fifteen,

(25:46):
like all the way down, and they got every single
member of all of those teams to agree, we're not
going to play unless they sit down and negotiate with us.
And that worked, and I think that really showed you
as they were serious and that they needed to be
negotiated with, and it helped to move but those negotiations forward,

(26:07):
and it didn't give them everything that they wanted right
in that moment, but it did show that that group
of women that they collectively had more power than they
had separately. And I think that kind of mindset has
carried through ever since.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
Wow. Yeah, you just gave me goosebumps because telling retelling
that story is it is very powerful because it also
shows the collective nature of a team. Ah, goosebumps. I
love it. I have a question that I like to
ask guests, and I've asked it a multitude of different

(26:46):
times in different places, but I think out of all
the guests, out of all the guests I've asked, you
probably the right one to ask this question because you've
done so much extensive research. Have you developed a theory
or an idea on why women's soccer continues to be
the platform for progress and also for like reform across

(27:08):
all areas, equal pay, like you said, the LGBTQ rights,
racial justice, you know, all the things the US women's
national team puts on their back and changing mindsets too,
and keeping that platform as a place for progress. But
why do you think that is? Why is women's soccer?
Why is the US women's national team? And I must

(27:30):
say the same women's soccer because we're seeing it in Norway,
We're seeing it all over the world now in England.
But but do you have a theory? I always like
to know thoughts on that.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
Well, it's it's an interesting question because it's certainly part
of my thinking. Just you know, as I shared earlier,
it's like I had this idea that women's soccer is
changing the world, but I couldn't articulate white why or how. Initially,
I think there's multiple factors. One, it's just like on
a real, really kind of visceral level, it's such a

(28:04):
powerful sport to play. It's so physical, it's aggressive, it's competitive,
and I think that it allows girls and women to
experience parts of themselves that are not always allowed well,
and I guess I think that with the US women's
national team specifically, the fact that as a country, this
was not our number one sport, and so like, I

(28:27):
don't know how it was when you were growing up,
but for me, like all the boys and the girls,
we were all kind of in it together with the
sport that was really fairly under the radar and was
actually a little bit suspicious. It was like, sport is
kind of foreign, you might be a socialist or you know,
like it's always not really considered American initially, and people

(28:51):
weren't paying that much attention to it. And so when
the women became so successful, I don't think that that
could have had and in these traditional soccer countries like
Brazil or Germany, because just that the headwinds were going
so much to the other direction because it is their
national sport and it's like their national identity, and here

(29:12):
it wasn't our national identity. So we were just able
to develop it right alongside the men's game, and so
we were able to become the best in the world
at it for quite a while because of that. And
then with the attention that garnered, I think came this
big opportunity to address these other issues. So that was
a long convoluted answer.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
You know it, But I mean you hit on points
that I've never heard before, because I mean that is
very true about men's soccer, that we were, if not
even more popular than like the MLS at one point
and out selling and NWSL stadiums, out selling some of
the men's markets, So that's reasonable. But the other thing
you said that really hit home was the global influence,

(29:58):
and I think that that might be it, and also
the way we and also it's good to like rub
people the wrong way, you know. I'm I meet a
lot of people who are like, oh, you know, I
like that Megan Rappino, But why does she have to
be so political? I love that right because you're talking
about it, She's getting your attention. So that's a little

(30:19):
bit of hell raising I like.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
And you know, with that, I think everyone that I
talk to emphasize the fact that and you can see
it throughout the history. It's like the women who play
this game by and large want to leave it better
for the next generation, and that's a huge part of
their intent, and it's how we got to where we

(30:43):
are now. And I don't think that that's necessarily true
in the men's game. And all of the issues that
we see in the women's game aren't just confined to
women's soccer. These are issues that any woman in a
male dominated sphere is going to be dealing with, whether
that's people saying you don't have the right to be
here at all, or even violence or just you know,

(31:05):
garden variety sexism or equal pay or any of that.
And so when you have this big light shining on
women's soccer, it's shining light on those issues that women
all over the world can really relate to, and I
think it's showing them almost like a template for how
do we make change, And so I think that's just
part of the power of the game.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, so interesting. I think that's a topic that you
can talk about forever. Actually, Yeah, I agree. Your book
really highlights the progress made in such a unique way too.
I think it's a very very an easy read for me,
who is not like a big reader, but I do
like soccer books, so for to have like something that's

(31:46):
that has a really good easy read, that's really you
can go back and reread it and pick out things
that you want to read about. But it really highlights
the progress. Is the progress made, but we also know
that it's a slow progression obviously when you look at
the game today and compare it to the past, and
I think you have a very unique lens to do that.

(32:06):
What's different do you think and what's also what's sadly
the same.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, that's a good question. So a couple things that
are clearly different. One is just the level of investment
and interest and media coverage on the game at this point,
we're just seeing that. I think that in the past
there was sort of this idea that, oh, support the

(32:32):
cause and inspire young girls, and it won't be a
good return on investment, but you know, just support the
cause of women's sports, almost like a sympathy vote or something.
And now people are really investing because you will get
an excellent return on your investment. We're seeing all kinds
of sponsors get involved, and that's a significant change. Long

(32:56):
time coming, had a lot of work, but significant change.
And then we're also seeing just a difference in the
way the game is covered historically. If you go back
to like the eighteen eighties and then the kind of
nineteen nineteen, nineteen twenty era ridicule was pretty common in
the media, just like absolutely mocking the idea that women

(33:19):
thought they could play at all. And then later we
advanced on being facetious to an objectification and sexualization of players,
which was really happening in like nineteen forties Brazil, where
the whole idea was go watch a bunch of women
in shorts running around. But even like as recently as

(33:40):
the ninety nine ers, the number one word used to
describe them during that tournament was babe, which was all
about their looks and not to do with them as
athletes at all. And then the second most common term
used to describe them was the girl's next door and
that was really like an attempt to kind of make

(34:01):
them seem approachable and accessible and just kind of diminish
the totality of who they are as athletes to make
us comfortable, because even then, like the idea of really
powerful female athletes was still just a i think, seen
as a threat to the social order on some level.
And so it's like, how do we put them in

(34:22):
a little box so that they just seem comfortable for us,
not comfortable for them. And that's where Rappino just rubs
people the wrong way, because she is not interested in
making anybody comfortable at all. It's like that that's not
my problem. We also come a long way there. We
have all of these well, well we're seeing just people

(34:44):
analyzing the game and not talking about how the players
look or doing all the sort of soft color commentary stuff.
And we do have all of the women's sports podcast,
women's soccer podcasts, all the former players now, so the
coverage has really changed, sadly, what is not depending on

(35:07):
where you are in the world, there's still just violence.
What's happening in Iran still with women fans, they really
for the most part can't even watch the game. They
can't even attend games. I think there's a small section
set aside. But up until very recently, if they attempted

(35:29):
to go to a stadium, they would be beaten or
they would be sent to the worst prison in the country.
And and that's you know, been twenty twenty two, so
that hasn't changed. And then as recently as twenty twenty one,
again women's national team had to be flown out of
the country. They had to just be evacuated for their

(35:51):
own safety along with their family members because the Taliban
retook the country and it just was not safe for
them simply because they played soccer. So we've come far
in some ways, in other ways not so much. And
again it depends on where you are in the world.
But these issues are they're global.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yeah, yeah, it reaches far beyond sport I think, But
what do you think, because I mean we've heard all
the stories, it's been documented with the Afghan team. What
do you think that we can do, like just as
fans like people listening, like, what can we do to
help changes? Is there anything?

Speaker 3 (36:27):
I think FIFA really has tools that it's not using
in terms of its anti discrimination policies and what it
says that policy is versus what they're actually doing. So
I think putting pressure on FIFA, especially with the Men's
World Cup coming up and the spotlight that will be

(36:48):
on FIFA and around human rights because they've already had
some definite heat for the Qatar World Cup. I think
just putting pressure on FIFA regarding Iran women's fans access
to the game, and then also to recognize the Afghan
women's national team, which is in exile for the most

(37:11):
part in Australia. They are refusing to recognize them because
the Afghan Soccer Football Federation is not recognizing them. But
it is a blatant human rights and discrimination issue, and
so I think just writing to FIFA, hosting about FIFA,
just turning up the heat on those issues would be helpful.

(37:32):
And then separately, you know there's all of these women
from Jamaica and Nigeria and Colombia who are just not
getting paid by their federations, and I think just shining
a light on those issues is also important.

Speaker 1 (37:47):
Yeah. I've had conversations with players will say off record,
I can't talk about this or I can't tell and
so that kind of like stifles me because I want
to talk about this, but they're asking me not to
and so yeah, so I was like, how do we
how do we get these players balls to practice with?
I mean that's like without without exposing the federation and

(38:08):
getting them in trouble. Crazy Yeah, oh boy, He's got
me Heidi going on on a roller coaster ride highs
and lows. I'm happy one minute and I'm mad the next.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
I really hope that the overall take away from the
book is hopeful and inspirational. I know that there's a
lot of history that's not the happiest, but we are advancing.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Yeah, we are, So we are. There's always a there's
always a bright side. I think one story in the
book that's that stood out to me, it really touched
me and it surprised me, was that of Christiana Endler.
We had her on the show, had her on the
show in twenty eighteen, and I just thought she was
just an amazing interview and it was great to have

(38:57):
her on. She was the Chilean goalkeeper, of course, and
in twenty nineteen during Women's World Cup, and you'd write
about it in the book. You know, she was on
a spotlight like everyone was like, who is this kid? Right?
And the interview that we did with her, which was
a year before, got picked up by some outlets, and
so it was great for the podcast, but it was

(39:17):
really great for Christiana and Leonard getting that, you know,
that spotlight on her, because I thought it was so
so deserved. But it was surprising to me to read that.
I didn't you have no idea about talk about keep
learning new things? Was how her success was silenced in Chile,
in her home country, but you outlined it in your book,

(39:38):
and it's so so fascinating. First of all, why was
it important to include that story in your book? And also,
how do you think that cultural norms around the world,
And we see this a lot in the South American
countries and then you know Mexico we've seen it for many,
many years. How do you think those norms are being changed?

(40:00):
I guess that two part question why was it important
to tell the story. I think we kind of know
that answer, but I like to hear your perspective and
then how women's soccer changing those perspective, especially that machismo
mentality that we see a lot in some countries.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
I mean. And so the story, just so your listeners know,
part of that chapter section is talking about Christian Handler
is just about the fact that when she made her
one hundredth cap for Chile, she played in a stadium
that had no stands. That was a federation decision. It

(40:39):
wasn't televised, and the only way that it was acknowledged
was there was a social media host like maybe an
hour after the match, and like Charles Bravo, I really
hope I'm not conflating his name with only murders in
the building. Was the Chilean male player who reached a

(41:02):
hundred cups and they played, the federation arranged a match
against It was a celebration at the World Cup qualifying match.
I think it was against start to Tina. It was
this massive celebration and a jersey and the whole thing,
and so the contrast was just really startling.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
To me.

Speaker 3 (41:23):
It was important to include that because everyone knows about
these amazing South African men's teams, but we haven't even
seen Chile on the world stage until very recently. And
there's a reason for that. And the reason is that
their federation for like a couple years there just wasn't
scheduling any games for them, and so they didn't even

(41:47):
they weren't considered active to even qualify for these major tournaments.
And the fact that christ John Endler was able to
break through and the way she did really in spite
of her federation not at all because of it, I
think is important and just to bring light because I'm
sure there's tons of players in Chile, in Argentina in
other countries that have the talent, but they don't have

(42:10):
the opportunity or the support, and so that's why I
wanted to include that. And then the second piece, which
just about how things are changing. I think a good
indicator of that is Mexico. At the time of the
seventy one World Cup. One of the most popular and

(42:31):
talented players was Alicia Vargas, called La Pele, and her
parents were so opposed to her playing in that tournament
that they would come and pull her off the practice
fields or pull her out of games by her ears,
as the story goes, and one of her teammates also
like her dad really didn't want her to play. And now,

(42:53):
but it is. The Mexican Professional League is just so
it's taking off. It's on apparel track with like the
WSL in England and to some degree the NWSL. I mean,
it's at a smaller scale right now, but investment is
pouring in. They're attracting internationals like Jenny Hermoso, the support

(43:14):
that they're starting to break attendance records, and hometowns that
have had these really popular men's teams for decades are
now absolutely getting behind their women. And it's just becoming
this cultural shift. So I think that that's a good
example of where that's happening.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Right before our eyes. I feel like I feel like
it was so different like five six years ago, and
now it's just changing. Mx Liga Feminel.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yeah, it's been such a pleasure seeing them move away
from like the where they were before and being run
by women most for the most part, Yes, women head
coach and that's got rid of all those old guys
that have been there for twenty years. Ah, there is progress,
But yeah, that Christian Endler story was amazing. I was like,
how did I not know about this? It's so crazy

(44:03):
and so glad that it's in your book. Okay, Heidi,
I have a couple of questions relating to our young
listeners out there, because we have quite a few young

(44:23):
soccer players who listen to the show, So for them,
are there any early players or teams that you think
that young players today should know about those kind of
like those unsung heroes who kind of paved the way
for modern for the modern women's game as we know it.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
Yeah, I think absolutely. Look up Dick Kurrz Ladies. They
were in England. They were like the dominant team of
their era, kind of in the post World War One era,
and they I think they played eight hundred and thirty
three matches and one seven hundred and fifty nine of them.
They were huge celebrities in their day. They were They

(45:04):
had like fifty three thousand fans come to one of
their games, with I think six thousand that were waiting
outside they couldn't get in. And they're just an incredible
team and their standout star was Lily Barr, who was
almost six feet tall, had a left kick or a
left shot like a mule apparently, and broke a crossbar

(45:26):
once just with her shot. She was quite a character.
And then another woman from that same era was Carman Pomiers.
I think that's how you pronounced it. She was French.
She was part of a French team that came over
and played against Dick Kerrs. And then she actually played
with Dick Curs. I think she went to the United
States with them when they went on tour. She is
quite a character. She was of a multi sport athlete herself,

(45:50):
just excelled in all kinds of sports, and she actually
when soccer became banned during just like leading up to
World War Two, she just continued to play. They would
have secret games on tennis courts and places like that.
But then she also went on to become a member
of the French Resistance and helped to smuggle all kinds

(46:13):
of Allied officers who would have been in like serious
trouble if they'd been caught. She worked for the German
High Command and helped to get all kinds of people
out of occupied France. So she's she was a soccer
star and a World War two hero. So we'orth looking
at all.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Right, Well, I'm looking in your book right now, so
I have to like underline her names, share it out there. Great,
I have a great story. And for the young kids too,
what lessons from the history of women's soccer can they
do you think that they can carry into their own
plane journeys. The journeys are so different now. There are
so many different paths that they're playing under for fun

(46:54):
or they're looking for a career. But what can they
take from the past and bring it into to what
they're doing today.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
I think one important point is that I've heard a number,
like a number of the people that I spoke with
a voice to concern that money might ruin the women's game,
because they, in their perspective, it's what we have in
the women's game is just really unique and special, and

(47:26):
that part of the reason it's unique is and so
special is just because of.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
All of the the battles fought and the way the
communities really had to just come together.

Speaker 3 (47:38):
Over the decades. And I think that the I'm not
that concerned about that because I think that women really
bring a different sensibility to the game and we're seeing
that in like investment models and all these things, but
all of those women for decades and decades really played
because they loved the game. And they, like if you're

(48:00):
talking about Mexico in like the forties, they didn't even
have fields. They had to move around and find fields
because they kept getting kicked off of fields and so
they just had to find a place to play. But
they loved to play so much they just kept going.
And even like the women back the Dick Kurrz Ladies
and all of their the other teams of that era,

(48:22):
they weren't making any money and again just played because
they loved it so much. And my message is not
don't play for money. That's not it at all. But
my messages make sure that you really are enjoying it.
Like what you will remember at the end of the
day is your how much fun you had with it
and the and your teammates, And so don't lose sight

(48:46):
of that. Because I do feel like there's youth sports
have become this just much more competitive, much more serious thing,
way earlier than they used to be, and there's a
lot more pressure on young athletes, and so I just
think it's important to remember to have fun and just
enjoy the competition.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
That's a great reminder because I see, like all the
players that I've interviewed over the years, the one thing
they have in common is when you ask them, you know,
what sets you, what got you to this level? It
was like, I love the game, I love my teammates,
I love playing. Practicing was like fun. You know. It's
like if you keep that with you, I think success.
And like you said, like, no matter what you do,

(49:25):
if you take you know, to the next step, or
you take all the things that you learned from soccer
into the workforce, whatever, it is great. Yeah, great message
from that. Out of all the stories in play on
what do you have a favorite moment or favorite personality
or somebody that you interviewed that kind of really stuck
with you personally.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
I feel like we're going full circle here in a way,
but I really do come back to Mary Harvey. She
was the first woman director hired at FIFA, and she
has she tells the story, you know, coming from the
corporate world, she and being an elite athlete, she was
really like this high performance preacher who was used to

(50:09):
having there's goals and you meet them and you track
where you are and all that, and she gets to
FIFA and she's put in charge of the goal program
in develop in the development department, and basically they're giving
two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to every one of
the two hundred and eight football federations around the world
that FIFA governs, and she's thinking, well, of course, like

(50:32):
this is.

Speaker 4 (50:33):
The most the governing body for the most popular sport in.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
The world, it'll be really high functioning. Like no, actually
there was zero accountability and just kind of there's money.
And so she put a team together and they flew
to one hundred and eighty countries in six months just
to convince these federations that, look, it's in your best
interest to be transparent, to be accountable. We're going to

(51:00):
changing the rules a bit, and you're gonna have to
be accountable for this money. And they, like she really
encountered some resistance, but was able to convince them and
work with these federations to make change and just to
make FIFA much more high functioning. And that's a legacy
of hers. So that just really impressed me. And I

(51:22):
was trying to figure out how to get that in
the book, but I think maybe if I add a
bonus chapter.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
I was going to say that could be your next book,
because there were so many great women and stories and
you think, gosh, you know, what what have I done lately?
Like and then you tell these and it's like so
many great stories and I mean just I mean changing
the world. Really, I think we're going to go full
circle because I'm I ask you one last question and

(51:51):
because we want to leave it on a high note,
like you kind of mentioned it a little bit, but
because you dug so deep into the past, what gives
you the most hope for the future of women's soccer?

Speaker 3 (52:01):
I just need players today coming in with an expectation
that they're going to be treated equally and fairly. And that,
more than anything, is hopeful to me because they're not
fighting the battles that all of their predecessors fought. They
don't need to fight those anymore. They're walking into a
completely different world and that I find tremendously hopeful.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
And I think that the future too, is in good
hands because, like you said, they have that expectation on
how things should be. They're not going to be sleeping
in the roach infested hotels of alex Morgan. You know,
no running water hopefully, Heidi. This is such a gift.
This book is such a gift. I'm encouraging all our

(52:50):
listeners to get out there and buy Play on From
Adversity to Advantage Through one hundred and forty Years of
Women's Soccer by Heidi Smith. How can we get the
book and how can we can with you as well?

Speaker 3 (53:01):
It is on Amazon, It's also on Ingram, Spark, and
you can connect with me on social media. And I'm
at Heidismith writer dot com and that is not social media.
That's my website. But I think my Facebook is heidismithwriter
dot com. My Instagram is too complicated for me to

(53:23):
sell out for you.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
We'll make it easy on you. Yeah, yes, send me
the links. We'll put it all on the show notes.
And people have been going because I really encourage everybody
to read the book. It's it's such a great read.
It's easy. You'll come away with learning something like I
do every Now now I'm at the point where I've
read through it. Now I'm going back and rereading some
of the things that I that I really enjoyed. So
such a gift. Thank you, Heidi for all the work

(53:46):
that you you did on this book. And we really
appreciate it, and we appreciate you coming by and stopping
and talking with us and spending so much time with us.
Really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Thanks so much for having me. I've really enjoyed this
and just appreciate the thoughtful question.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
Hey, big thanks to Heidi for coming on the show
and for writing an amazing book, another essential read for
women's soccer fans. I think there, Like I said, there's
been so many important books written on women's soccer over
the years, and I think play On takes its place
among those. I really believe that. I'm telling you it's
I mean, like I said, you think you've heard it all,

(54:24):
and I'm number one guilty of this. Play On by
Heidi Smith will catch you by surprise. There's so much
to learn, and you'd think, especially with like social media,
that you hear all these stories like that, like Christiana
Endler story. I wanted to bring that up because we
were such huge Christiana Endler fans, and you know, I
had that great interview with her before Women's World Cup

(54:45):
in twenty nineteen and she's just been a huge star
on the scene. But you know, that story, it's just
not always out there. Unless you're looking for it, you
might miss it. And there's so many more stories in
this book that are amazing and important for us to
know about. I think play on get it on Amazon
and on Heidi's website, and I'll list all the links

(55:05):
where you can find the book and contact Heidi, and
we'll have all of that on the show notes. So
so great, Thank you Heidi Smith for coming on the show. Okay, well,
I promised you that we'd hear from the great defender,
the most infectious personality, and we've been soccer Ali Riley,
so let's do it. Let's hear from her. This is
These are sound bites from her press conference. And just

(55:26):
a reminder before I do this that this is a
press conference setting. It's not an exclusive interview by any means.
Reporters from all different outlets are asking questions. Ali is
answering them, and many times I'm editing out the questions
just for ease of listening. Sometimes you don't need to
listen to the question to understand what Ali's talking about.

(55:46):
Some questions I did leave in so you know what's
being referenced. In fact, our friend Damien Calhoun asked Ali
a question about her home, as I was mentioning she
lost her home in the LA fires recently, so I
did leave in Damien's question about that. So let's sit
in on this retirement announcement from one of our favorite players,

(56:07):
Ali Riley, and here talk about her decision to retire,
her thoughts on Angel City, her thoughts on New Zealand
women's national team, her future and her future in and
around the game, and so much more. So let's listen
to Ali Riley.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
I love this game, and I have loved so much
of my career. I want to play more games for
Angel City and for New Zealand.

Speaker 5 (56:31):
These teams mean so much to me.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
So it is difficult and sad knowing that I won't
be able to do that anymore, that I'm stepping away
from the game. But in terms of the actual decision
and the timing, that was very easy. I am so
thankful and so proud that I have been able to

(56:53):
come back to the game and to come back to
the field and make the travel roster and the game roster.

Speaker 5 (57:02):
But what it's taking for.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
My body to do those things is not something I
can sustain long term. So you know, it went through
my head, could I do this for six more months.

Speaker 5 (57:12):
Could I do this for another year? The answer is no.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
I spend the rest of my days just preparing for
the next day. And while I do love football, there
is so much more to life, especially my family and
rebuilding our home and spending time with my husband, hopefully
starting a family, and those are all things I want
to be able to have energy to do. And I

(57:39):
also want to make sure that I can be active
long term for the next chapter of my life. So
right now we have a great system and I can
perform out there. I'm ready to play a game if
they need me. But yeah, I think it. The only
way I can do this now is because I know
that I won't be doing it for much longer.

Speaker 6 (58:00):
And then if you look back, you know, through the
recovery and then you'd like to say, you're rebuilding the
house and everything, how difficult? What's that stretch and what
did how did soccer sort of bring Did soccer bring
you that relief? Release at all?

Speaker 2 (58:15):
I think it's been pure hell. It has been a
nightmare the last yeah, almost two years. I would never
want anyone to go through what me and my family
have gone through. No athlete, obviously, no one to lose
their home and fire like that and lose their entire community.
I think that's why it was so hard is because

(58:36):
I didn't have soccer. I didn't have that release. I
didn't have that thing that I loved so much. And
I also didn't have the safe space off the field
my home to go to when I was having a
hard time because I couldn't play football. So I just
felt so much loss, so much devastation. What I did
have was this beautiful new home in our facility.

Speaker 5 (58:58):
I had my teammates.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
I had staff that encouraged me and supported me, and
it's really thanks to them. Also the psychologists that I
worked with mental performance coaches to ask the right question
so that I knew that I could keep putting my
foot one foot in front of the other and show

(59:19):
up every single day.

Speaker 5 (59:20):
I did have to take.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Some time away earlier in the year, but in the end,
I knew that I would regret it if I didn't
give everything I could to at least try to come back.
And the people here at Angel City made me feel
like even if I couldn't come back, that I was enough,
that I was still valued, that I was still an
important member of this team and this club, and I

(59:43):
can't thank them enough for that, and that makes it
even more special to be back on the field and
laugh with them and be in the locker room, and
it contribute in any small way that I can to
the remainder of the season. Coaching, I don't think is
the path for me. I am hire all of the
coaches and especially the players who have come out of

(01:00:03):
this league and other leagues and done amazing things at
the coaching level. Some of my former teammates are are
coaching and sporting directors and general managers in this league
and owners of teams in this league, investors, and that's
really inspiring to me. I do love content creation, I

(01:00:23):
love the game. I want to stay involved in the game,
but I think it would be probably more in media
and storytelling. But it's no secret that I love this
club and I would love to have a future involved
in this club, and I don't think I'll ever fully
be able to leave angel City, So that's something that
I am definitely thinking about and in conversations with as well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
What are some of.

Speaker 6 (01:00:49):
Your most memorable moments on the field on the pitch itself.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
Getting drafted to FC Goldpride as a rookie, being on
a team with Martin, Christine Sinclair, Rachel Buehler, Nicole Barnhardt,
being drafted with Kelly O'Hara, that team, Camille Abbie, that
team was just sensational, and it was so fun for
me to still be in school and going to training

(01:01:19):
with Kelly and having these experiences that it doesn't really
happen like that anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:01:24):
I think things are more professional.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
I think that team is one of the best teams
that ever was, but just the game has changed where
I think it would be really hard to go to
class in the morning, drive to training, come back, go
to a frat party, and then do it all over
again the next day. So things have changed, but I
think for us it was such a cool way to
start our career. We didn't know anything different, and we
won the championship. Then going to the Western New York Flash,

(01:01:52):
Ashlyn Harris and I we shared a Mazda Mini Van
and we would drive to training in the snow and
we just, I don't know, it felt like simpler times,
even though things are so much better now that the
game has grown. But I feel really lucky that, even
though it wasn't the salaries and the transfers and the

(01:02:16):
engagement in the investment that we have now that I
was still able to have this amazing experience in my
first two years in this amazing league that of course inevitably.

Speaker 5 (01:02:29):
Couldn't sustain itself.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
But those first two years were really really special. And
then to go to Sweden and be on such a
successful team there and really get a taste of that
European football is life atmosphere, and yeah, I again have
amazing teammates from all over the world to win championships

(01:02:51):
and Cups, and I am able to look back and
just feel so much joy. And again it is unusual,
I think, given how other players maybe when they started
in the NWOSL and some of the resources and the
lack of investment and how the salaries were. I kind
of evaded that when I went to Europe. And that

(01:03:14):
is why, you know, I can't take too much credit
for helping build the NWOSL, because I said I would
never come back here.

Speaker 5 (01:03:21):
I was so hurt.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
When the league folded in the beginning of twenty twelve,
and so again to then come back to a league
that is so well established, that is the most competitive
league in the world, To be on a team with
incredible women and mothers at Orlando Pride and then get
traded to my hometown. You can't write this stuff, and

(01:03:43):
it all it came out of hard things, It came
out of luck. Sometimes it came out of just the
time of football that we were in back then. And
I think my journey has been really, really unique, and
that helped me not compare myself to other people and
also use my voice and my individual platform to the

(01:04:08):
best way that I could to make a positive impact
on people's lives. Playing for New Zealand, playing internationally at
such a young age, and playing my first World Cup
in two thousand and seven just after my freshman year
of college, I think it changed my life. Learning about
this country that means so much to my family, and
spending a lot of time there.

Speaker 5 (01:04:31):
Not winning that many games. It challenged me a lot
as a leader, as a player, as a person.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
But it gave me so much and I think that
is why I've been so passionate about growing the game
there and trying to give my teammates and the next
generation of football Ferns and just young players in New
Zealand in general a better experience than I had and

(01:04:59):
just be able to dream bigger than I was able to.
And I think hosting a World Cup that kickstarted that.
But that couldn't have happened without all of the players
whose names people don't know, and the teams that no
one talks about. And I think us winning that first
game and having the spotlight that we had, that's not

(01:05:21):
something you can take for granted because it's not up
to us players to host a World Cup.

Speaker 5 (01:05:26):
There's a lot that is involved in that process.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
So I just wanted to make sure that I could
give everything I could to that national team, to make
sure that my players also are valued and that they
can play at amazing clubs and have long careers and
safe careers. And it is sad that is one thing
that will be so different, I think, to not travel

(01:05:50):
the world with these women who felt like sisters to me,
that went through so much with me and some really
really really hard things. But I will be a fan
for a long time. I can't wait to see them
play in future World Cups. And you know, the Olympics

(01:06:10):
was a really really hard one for me, but the
next one in Los Angeles, I will be thrilled to
be watching from the sidelines. I'm definitely hoping for an
opportunity to say goodbye.

Speaker 5 (01:06:21):
I can't say.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
More about that, but that experience really really changed my
life and gave me an even bigger platform, and I
think set me up for some of the future successes
I have had and just shaped me in a way
that made me a person that a club like Angel
City wanted to have.

Speaker 5 (01:06:41):
As a player on this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Team and as a captain of this club, I have
been given so much from my parents, from people who
believed in me, and so to be at a club
like Angel City with similar values and opportunities to help
me then give back, and not just to my teammates
by showing up every day, by being allowed to impart

(01:07:07):
my wisdom and my spirit into locker rooms, on the field,
and I've been trusted with so much and it is
such an honor, and so for me, the most important
thing is to give back and to lead in a
way that serves others. And again I have spoken about

(01:07:28):
this amazing career that I've been so fortunate to have
to now be on the field again, which is and
retire in this way, which is a privilege and something
that not a lot of athletes get to have, especially
not at home. So I think when I got the
chance to come back to Angel City was always going

(01:07:49):
to be.

Speaker 5 (01:07:49):
About the people.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
I love soccer, of course, and I compete out there
every single day that I'm able to. But I was
at a point in my career I was not guaranteed
any playing time when I came here. I was actually
told I might not get much playing time. So I said,
I'm going to make this I already knew it was
a good club, but I'm going to make the locker

(01:08:11):
room and the field and whatever chance I get, whatever platform,
whatever room i'm in, whatever space i'm in, whatever microphone
gets put in front of me, I'm going to make
sure people know what I stand for, what this club
stands for, who we are, what we believe in, what
we don't accept. And that goes from how we treat
each other as teammates, how we believe in each other,

(01:08:32):
how we speak to each other, how we encourage a
professional standard, how we care for each other. We all
go through hard things in our lives, but then to
show up for the fans and make sure they feel
welcome and included. And because this club had such a
big platform, I knew that well, the better I played

(01:08:53):
the and the team played, the more amplified this message
would be, but also that it would give me a
platform to really make people feel that in such a
strong way. It's so different from even FC Goldbride was
such a good team. But there's three thousand people there
and you're trying to catch up with one fan one fan.

Speaker 5 (01:09:10):
Now I you know, I get.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
To say something and on social media and thousands of
people are seeing it. So it's not even just about
the people in the stadium. It's about anyone who needs
someone to see them, to stand up for them. That
is not just in Los Angeles but all across all
across the world, and this club has a global following.

(01:09:34):
So I just wanted to make sure that I could
make the most of that. And it all comes down,
I think, to how you make people feel and being
kind and so that is what I really wanted to
do while I was here, and I think I feel
proud that it seems like a lot of people have
felt really loved by me, and it's something I will

(01:09:55):
continue to do and I will be able to continue
to do because I at this club and I feel really,
really lucky to be associated with the club like Angel
City for the rest of my life.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Allie Riley will be missed for sure. I was a
little disappointed though in that interview, just to hear that
coaching isn't her path. I mean, she just seems like
a natural cheerleader and motivator. But I guess, you know,
I guess there's more to coaching than that, obviously. But
one thing that struck me, and it goes along with
what we were talking about with Heidi, is that her

(01:10:28):
memorable moments, you know, when they ask her, what are
your favorite moment? You know, is there one particular thing
that stands out that that you think about fondly? She
said those memorable moments came from the early days, the
hard days, but the fun time she had at the
beginning of her career. And it kind of, you know,
like I said, remind me of the of Heidi's point

(01:10:48):
of having fun. And I think, Ali, you know, her
fondest memories come from when she was a struggling young player.
It was all about playing, and it was all about
teammates and community and having fun. So, like I said,
I'm glad that she decided to come back to the States.
And light up the NWSL with her spirit and her infectiousness.
Ali Riley surely will be missed, but what you brought

(01:11:12):
to women's football will under for sure. So thank you, Aliiley,
and also thanks to the good people Angel City for
giving us the resources to share that press conference. I
really really appreciate you. Hey, I hope that you enjoyed
episode two hundred and thirty four of Women's World Football Show.
I would love to hear your thoughts on my interview
with author Heidi Smith, as well as our soundbites from

(01:11:32):
Ali Riley. Feel free to email me at Patti at
wwfshow dot com. I read all the emails and do
my best to reply in a timely manner. If you
did enjoy this episode, subscribe now on Apple podcast, Spotify,
iHeartRadio app, tuned in castbox, speaker, wwfshow dot com, or
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(01:11:53):
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If you're listening on a mobile device, swipe over the
cover art and you'll find the episode notes, including some

(01:12:15):
details you may have missed. For relative links from this episode,
visit our show notes on wwfshow dot com. Connect with
us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok at WWF Show. Women's
Role Football Show is hosted, written, edited, and produced by
Patti Labella. Let's me additional assistance for this episode by
Heidi Smith, Ali Riley and Lisa Milner Goldberg at Angel CITYFC.

(01:12:37):
And thank you, especially you for joining me on this
exciting journey through women's football. Stay strong, stay mindful, keep
loving your heart, and we'll see y'all next time.