February 11, 2025 • 21 mins
"As you build out your network, it's important to have authenticity. Don't just talk to somebody because you want something out of it."
Notable Moments
00:58 "Personal Board of Directors Importance" is essential for guidance, balance, and purpose-driven leadership.
07:01 Why Best Culture Solutions' help was essential for job success.
10:25 Airtight resume significantly boosts interview rates.
16:18 Network genuinely and persist to achieve your dream job authentically.
17:06 Pursue dream jobs, but self-worth shouldn't depend on them.
A lot of people talk about chasing their dream job, but don't always put in the work to land it. Twenty-three years ago, my dream came true when I worked as a Cast Member at Walt Disney World. That experience shaped the way I view people leadership and HR recruiting. Rob Midiri and I met up at Epcot in Walt Disney World, to reflect on the sometimes grueling, yet rewarding journey toward landing that ideal role. Read the blog for more about our conversation.
Connect with Rob
https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertmidiri
Connect with Tim and his team:
Website: https://bestculturesolutions.ca/
LinkedIn: Best Culture Solutions, Inc
Instagram: @best.culture.solutions
Email: tim@bestculturesolutions.ca
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Welcome to the World at Work podcast where business leaders and
job seekers come together to create winning cultures and fulfilling careers. I
am your host, Tim Dick, which you don't typically hear. Usually, it's
Jodi Mayberry or Katie Kearns, but I am self
hosting today. And the reason for that is because we have a very special
episode. We are actually on-site at Epcot,
(00:28):
and Epcot, as people who listen to this show know, is really special
for a lot of people, obviously, who have come here and created memories. So it's
for me special because I had a chance to be a Walt Disney World cast
member twenty three years ago, and that experience for me was
very formative in how to do people leadership and
culture HR recruiting the right way to create those winning cultures. So
(00:50):
it's really special to be here. I am standing with our guest just
outside the German pavilion. We're gonna do it in the Canadian where I used to
work, but we just had dinner in Germany. And I'm here with Rob Madiri. Rob,
how are you? I am doing fantastic, Tim. How are you doing? I'm well, it's
cool. I I had always thought we'd get the chance to record here, and here
we are. So I'm happy. I'm super excited about this. And to
(01:11):
be recording here in Epcot, what an amazing opportunity,
amazing experience. Yeah. It is. And that's why I'm here to
I'm happy to be with you. Now for those of you who don't know, I
have wanted to do a park with Rob for a long time, probably since I
knew him because Rob knows and understands the park so well, but we're here today
doing it. But what I wanted to talk to Rob about today is a lot
(01:32):
of people ask me questions about dream jobs. Should I chase them? What does it
take to chase them? Is it worth it? Stuff like that.
And I'm not the type of person who's ever gonna tell you not to chase
your dream job. Right? But understand and manage your expectations
around parameters, right, around managing your dream
job or going after it because it's not always easy. It can be really discouraging.
(01:53):
And I wanted to chat with Rob about that because Rob did that. Rob did
that I mean, he started the process probably, what, three years ago? Yeah.
Yeah. And you landed it, what, a year and a half ago? About a year
and a half ago. You're right. Yeah. I moved your family for it. Absolutely. Yeah.
What was that like? It was an incredible experience. So there was a lot of
times where it became very frustrating. You know, continually
trying and the progression, you know, throwing
(02:16):
applications at different roles and then
landing some interviews and getting through that process,
and then finally, ultimately hitting my pinnacle where
I landed a role in my dream location. And then
going on after that to basically uproot my family and and bring
them 900 miles away to achieve that goal. And every
(02:39):
part of it was an adventure. There was a learning opportunity from each and
every aspect of it. You know, some of the key things that you really learn
from a process like that is you have to be passionate, and
you have to truly be passionate about what you wanna do and
where you wanna be. And you have to have the support system around you.
So friends and family, you have to have your board of
(03:01):
directors really championing you all the way
through and making sure that when you hit those lows, that
they're there to prop you up. And they're also there to level set you
too. If you're, you know, getting ahead of yourself, you need people
that are going to kind of say, hey. You know what? You need to take
a step back. These are the things that you really need to look at. Are
you sure this is where you wanna go? So you have to be
(03:24):
passionate about it, and then you have to lead with purpose. You know? And and
that kind of devolves into all of that same aspect
of, you know, knowing what are you trying to accomplish and why are you
trying to accomplish that? Is it for you? Is it for a greater
good? Do you want to, you know, provide something? And
we all wanna provide for our families. We wanna be able
(03:46):
to provide for the people that we take care of and
showcase what our actual skill set is. So it was it
was an amazing experience, especially the part around having a board of directors.
Tell me about that. Because you mentioned it, and I was like, a lot of
people are gonna be like, what do you mean board of directors? Yeah. So Yeah.
This isn't a company. You're like, what's this Tell me what that means. So, I
mean, having a personal board of directors around you is is a group of people
(04:08):
that are really going to keep you in tune
with what your goals are, and they're going to be honest with you.
So most of us will look for people that
want to that will give us the answer that we wanna hear. Right? And it's
easy that way. So I will line people up that
and ask them questions that I want I know what the response is that I
(04:30):
wanna generate. A board of directors is gonna function a bit differently from
that. They're gonna be realistic with you. They're not
gonna be afraid to have those crucial conversations, those
tough conversations with you, and they're going to provide
unbelievable guidance throughout every pathway that you make. So
I would highly recommend, wherever you're at in stage of life,
(04:52):
whether you're in college or in high school
or you're in your 40s getting ready to make a massive
career pivot from one field to another, have
a personal board of directors is gonna help you through
every single phase of that in some circumstance. Cool. And I
bet you most people that you know don't also have a board of
(05:14):
directors. This is gonna you're probably the only person you know that has one, I
bet. I don't know about that. No? And, yeah, I think that there's a couple
of that. I so I learned I mean that as a compliment. Yeah. It's like,
hitting your Thank you. Yeah. No. It's and and then it's going over and above.
Right? A % is. So the so the people that I surround myself
with so I guess my personal board of directors have
taught me that other like minded people have a
(05:37):
personal board of directors, and that kind of helps build that
out and round out what you're trying to
accomplish and the people that you need to interact with. So I
definitely think that it's not necessarily a common approach, but I
think that when you think about it, it's like an
epiphany. Like, oh, yeah. That makes total sense. And I go yeah.
(06:00):
I go to people and ask them for advice all the time.
These are the folks that are my board of directors. Yeah. Make that's
a good idea. And I like, again, like I say, I recommend it, you know,
to our listeners to have and it's funny. I'm recommending it to somebody who doesn't
even have one. But it's like, oh, man. That's that thing I need to do.
And it's like, that's a good idea. Because it's an it's a next level. It's
(06:20):
you know what I mean? Like, you're going over and above by having one. So
that's pretty cool now. Let's dig into this because I wanted what I really wanted
to use this episode to do was to help the listeners, you know, say, what
does it take to go after your dream job? Now, Rob, you were trying to
crack a really tough nut. Right? Like, you were going into a company that
typically or hoping to go into a company at a higher level
than entry level and a company that typically has that
(06:43):
promotes its own because they've got great candidates that they develop already,
and you're trying to get them to relocate you. So let's talk through that a
little bit here. How many applications did it take before you got your first interview,
do you think? Probably in the range of 70.
70? 70. Yeah. Wow. And that was even with a good resume?
That was so I started prior to that with just
(07:05):
having a blanket resume and that I would
put towards roles that I knew that I could do and things that I had
exposure to, but I never really focused the
resume on that role. So and the important component of that
was really leveraging a team, like Best Culture Solutions,
to help me refine my resume and take that
(07:27):
time to spend with me to, one, get to know me, but also get to
know the roles that I was really looking at so that that we could put
together my resume. And it was a complete collaboration. And to be able to,
you know, kind of, like, brainstorm and strategize
and focus on, okay, these are the kind of roles that you should be looking
at, and these are how your skill sets are transferable.
(07:48):
I mean, everybody has the transferable skills, and it's just a
matter of finding and refining and fine tuning
the verbiage within your resume and making sure that you're hitting those
highlights. At the end of the day, we generally have a hard time
promoting ourselves. So working with you and and your team
to kind of give that guidance and help
(08:10):
promote yourself was absolutely essential
in landing this role. K. So let's go back quickly. So it took you 70
approximately, give or take 25 no. I'm kidding. A few.
Right? Applications to get an interview even without
making sure that your resume is airtight, after the resume was airtight, how many do
you think estimate, thumb suck. Within so about
(08:32):
25, and I and I landed probably about four
or five interviews in that time frame. 25. Okay. That's good. Because we
typically for we usually say it takes about ten to fifteen if your resume is
airtight. Yeah. So that means if you have a good resume, you can speed up
the curve a little bit even in a harder target like the one that you
went for. Absolutely. But it took time. Yeah. How many It definitely
(08:53):
takes time. And and how many interviews after you did? Did you actually So I
took five? I had about five interviews before I got my final
offer. Right. And the first interview wasn't successful. Correct. What'd you
do after that? So, you know, it becomes a little frustrating after
you go through that number of interviews and that number of applications,
but I realized that this was kind of the area that
(09:14):
weeded out. Am I really passionate about this? Is this really what I
wanna do? So I continued to double down on it
and look even more deeper and focus even more
on those roles that I could transfer my skills. I also knew
that there might be an opportunity where I have to take a step back from
what my role was as a director level Yes.
(09:36):
To an individual contributor. And sometimes that's the reality, and and
you have to balance that. Is that where is that threshold? Where is that
line of dedication and and passion to
earning a role in in that in that industry or that company.
Yeah. And that's right. And the thing is too is that a lot of people
get really wrapped up as a director here, I'm gonna be a manager there, or
(09:57):
individual contributor there, and they're like, oh, I don't know if I should do that.
And it's like what they don't understand is that the title actually doesn't matter nearly
as much as you think it does. I mean, we get so wrapped up in
titles, but we forget the fact that it's completely relative. Right? If you
are at the director level in a in a tiny company, say, 10 people,
that's very different than being a manager in a 70,000 person or
(10:17):
organization. And and it's also to scale and relative to how many
people are working with you underneath you on the org chart. I don't like the
word underneath. It's the only word for it. And so you should never be shy
about that, but I'm hearing that when you had to get your resume airtight, then
after that, it took about you had about four or five interviews and
25 applications, which actually speaks and and listeners could go
(10:39):
back to earlier episodes of the show, and we talk about the importance of a
resume that gets attention within three to five seconds because that's what
you have. But once you get airtight on that, you know, we we have a
guarantee. Like, we always tell people, if you don't get an interview for a role,
like, yours are up between ten and fifteen applications, let us know and work with
you until you do. You are converting approximately one in every five,
(11:01):
which is actually better than what we aim for. Because we know one in ten,
one in 15 is actually a strong conversion rate after your resume is
airtight. So it goes to show you that if your resume is airtight, you can
speed up that curve a lot even in a tough organization
that has lots of people, lots of people wanna work for them, great internal
promotion opportunities are already there. There's a tough nut to crack, but you could still
(11:22):
convert what one in five if you had the right resume. It's possible.
So that's good. Without a doubt. And five interviews after that, how long in total
did the process take? From the time that I had an airtight
resume until then, it was probably I wanna I wanna say
roughly a year Okay. From that standpoint. But,
again, very tough, and everybody has a different experience with that. So I
(11:44):
was trying to get into a very, very competitive
organization. Right. My wife also works with you
and your team That's right. Yeah. And was able to get
interviews almost immediately. And it was a obviously, it was a
much more competitive realm where they they were looking
for people, but it was almost immediate. And everybody
(12:06):
that spoke with Katie was absolutely impressed by
her resume and her skill set. So it's, it's how it's showcased,
how it's packaged, and and means the world in
that context. Yeah. Okay. So here's a question for you, Rob. After
and I wanted you to share this with the listeners because not only do I
want it to be kind of, like, an eyes wide open for listeners to talk
(12:27):
about what does it take to go for your dream job, but also what'd you
do to convert it. Right? And your first interview, you didn't get the job.
What'd you do after that? How did you stay in touch with the company or
the recruiters, or did you just leave it be? Like, what did you do? How
did you handle that? Yeah. So I made sure to stay in touch with the
recruiters and to continue to foster that relationship.
(12:47):
And from that, I was able to leverage an
airtight resume plus relationships that I built with different
recruiters and different leaders across the organization to continue
to compound on that. And that's what kind of accelerated
my ability to earn additional interviews and talk
to additional leaders. So as you build out your network, it's
(13:10):
important to have authenticity in that you're
not just going to talk to somebody because you want
something out of it. What are you bringing to them? How are you
creating this symbiotic relationship where you can share
together? And I'm gonna be honest with you, I continue the
relationship with all of the recruiters that I've talked to in the
(13:31):
organization to this day after landing my g
job and being there for a a year and three, four months at this
point. Yeah. Well, it's because it's authentic. Right? Like, you mentioned being authentic in
those approaches. And I think that if you were to just start the relationship for
the sake of getting a job because you just wanted a job for you and
then you cut off the communication or you don't stay in touch, that wouldn't be
(13:52):
authentic. Right? Yeah. And I know that one of the things
that I noticed throughout your search, it was almost as if you had an
internal team of advocates for you. Right? Because you were able to approach
that properly, and you were able to create those
relationships where they were. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. And it meant everything, I think, in
the end. And I remember you and I were talking throughout the process, and I
(14:13):
don't know how you felt at the time if you're encouraged or discouraged. But I
remember saying, you got these guys fighting for you, and that's a very good sign.
Because a lot of recruiters, they'll pay you, like, the lip service, like, you know,
thank you, and thanks for reaching out. And yeah. Yeah. We'll reach out. But not
often they stay in constant contact like that, and you are really able to
cultivate those relationships. It's really empowering and
(14:34):
uplifting when you have that level of advocacy at multiple
different levels of any organization because you know that you've
created something where people are willing to go to bat to you.
They're willing to put their name think about it this way. Anytime that you make
a recommendation or a referral, you're essentially putting your name
on the line for this person. So to have
(14:56):
somebody that is willing to do that and time and time
again is an absolutely incredible
scenario and and situation, and it's really a tribute to
the effort that you put into that relationship and also
what that person is willing to invest back in. And and when they see
that you're willing to invest a lot into the relationships,
(15:19):
then folks are much more willing to do the same for you. So I
guess to tie a bow on it all, it's pretty simple for the listeners. Hey.
Look. If you are interested in a dream job and you're trying to figure out
what is it gonna take to get it, you know, here's what it's gonna take.
Right? It took you a year and a half, around 70 applications,
25 once you got airtight on your resume, and a lot of networking, right,
(15:39):
to to create a team of advocates for you within the organization. I
suspect because you had a high conversion rate of applications to
interviews. I suspect that you cultivating those relationships with those
recruiters after you were unsuccessful the first time probably played a big
part in, right, in that higher conversion rate that you had.
Because by everything you've told me, it sounds like they're working behind the scenes. Say,
(16:01):
hey, Rob. Here's another one that I think you're gonna be good for. Get in
there, see how it goes type of thing. And so that matters a lot too,
but people can expect it to take the time because I think what we gotta
tell people. If we're if we're trying to share with them and manage their expectation
on a dream job search, hey. Look. It is gonna take time. You are gonna
have to be persistent. You know, you are gonna have to network authentically and genuinely.
And all of that to say is that the only way that you can do
(16:23):
that, the only way that you can manage your mindset around that properly is you
wanna be wanting this job for the right reasons. Right? And there's like,
Rob, you have a role that comes with a lot of cool perks that a
lot of people want. If you're doing it because you're interested in the role
and you're interested in the company's purpose and how you can contribute to that genuinely
so, then that will come out, and I think your efforts will go well. If
(16:44):
you in other words, if you want the dream job genuinely will come, it's gonna
take time. If you don't want it genuinely, then I don't think you'll ultimately get
it. But people should buckle up for at least a two year ride, I would
say, if you're gonna go for it. And, again, you know, the idea behind this
episode was just to share with people, if there's something you wanna go after, what
do you have to be ready for? And it sounds to me like two years
(17:04):
persistence, not giving up. A lot of people will give up sooner, and
if they choose to, that's okay. That's them. Right? But I I would
also say that networking is important, networking authentically and genuinely.
It sounds like, was a big lever that you pulled. But the big thing that
I think that I would say to people is that, you know, dream jobs are
cool, and if you can get one, great. And you should absolutely go after
(17:26):
them if you've got. If all the things that Rob just talked about sound good
and you you're up for it, yeah, I let it rip. But if you're
not enough without that dream job, there'll never be enough with it. So what I
mean by that is that, you know, if you don't have a mindset and you're
not secure enough in yourself without that job, you're gonna end up in a
situation where that job is everything to you. And until you have it, you'll never
(17:48):
feel like you're enough as a professional or as a person. It's really dangerous. You
need to be enough as a person outside of your work, not just your dream
job, but at any work that you do. I guess I would just tell listeners,
hey. Look. If you're not enough without it, you'll never be enough with it. So
do what you gotta do, be enough without it. Because in case it doesn't work
out, then you don't, you know, you don't walk around feeling like your life has
(18:08):
been wasted in some way, which isn't true. It never is. So Absolutely. And the
other piece of that, Tim, is that once you earn that dream
job, if you're not enough without that, it no longer is your dream
job because you're looking for that next what is next?
And pursuing another dream. So you really have to
do a lot of looking inside and determining
(18:30):
what is it that you actually want, and how do you wanna approach
that, and what is important to you. And that's where, you know, where I
kinda talked about passion is really identifying what your
passion is. Because you could be passionate in the moment
about something, and then when you get there, it's like,
well, what's next? Am I? Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean,
(18:52):
don't get me wrong. You should always be looking towards how you can improve or
go next level, but that's very different than feeling like you're enough in something and
looking to improve versus that hit next hit that you have to be finding is
very different and can be very exhausting. Absolutely. It's a good point. Okay. Looking for
something externally to feed your happiness or to, you
know, otherwise control and make you happy,
(19:13):
that comes internally. There's nothing external that is ever going
to make that happen. It could be in the very
short dopamine hit, but it's never gonna be sustained. Do you know
I learned that lesson by watching Cool Runnings? Did you really? Yes. Of course, I
did. I don't know if you remember the scene where they find out that the
coach cheated. I do remember. It's John Candy, and they say, coach,
(19:34):
why'd you cheat? He said it's simple. If you're never enough without it, you'll never
be enough with it. And that's that's what John Candy said before he passed
away. Right. So Very a very sage,
sage statement by John Caddy. Yeah. May he rest in peace. Well, Rob, yeah, I
really appreciated this, and I appreciate you taking time to be on the show.
Appreciate you taking time. Jody is here for the listeners who don't
(19:55):
see or hear him. He's just quietly lurking in the background while we record. But
I you know, it's been a great day spent with both of you,
Jody and Rob. But I also appreciate you taking time today when we're
supposed you know, when we are having fun of the park to share with the
listeners about dream jobs, so whether or not what you have to think about, right,
what you can expect when you go for them. So, Rob, if anybody that's
(20:16):
listening wanted to reach out to you and ask you to compare notes on dream
jobs and how to get them or or, like, stuff like that, how can they
find you? How can they reach out to you? Yeah. Please look me up on
LinkedIn, Rob Madiri. And, also, you can find me,
at in a business that I own, along with my buddy
Ken, Dreamfinder Designs. And we do web and app
(20:37):
development as well. So please find us on dream at
dreamfinderdesigns.com. Awesome, Rob. Well, thank you very much for
listening. We're gonna get back to our night out at Epcot here, but
thanks again for listening to the world at work.
Welcome to the World at Work podcast where business leaders and
job seekers come together to create winning cultures and fulfilling careers. I
am your host, Tim Dick, which you don't typically hear. Usually, it's
Jodi Mayberry or Katie Kearns, but I am self
hosting today. And the reason for that is because we have a very special
episode. We are actually on-site at Epcot,
(00:28):
and Epcot, as people who listen to this show know, is really special
for a lot of people, obviously, who have come here and created memories. So it's
for me special because I had a chance to be a Walt Disney World cast
member twenty three years ago, and that experience for me was
very formative in how to do people leadership and
culture HR recruiting the right way to create those winning cultures. So
(00:50):
it's really special to be here. I am standing with our guest just
outside the German pavilion. We're gonna do it in the Canadian where I used to
work, but we just had dinner in Germany. And I'm here with Rob Madiri. Rob,
how are you? I am doing fantastic, Tim. How are you doing? I'm well, it's
cool. I I had always thought we'd get the chance to record here, and here
we are. So I'm happy. I'm super excited about this. And to
(01:11):
be recording here in Epcot, what an amazing opportunity,
amazing experience. Yeah. It is. And that's why I'm here to
I'm happy to be with you. Now for those of you who don't know, I
have wanted to do a park with Rob for a long time, probably since I
knew him because Rob knows and understands the park so well, but we're here today
doing it. But what I wanted to talk to Rob about today is a lot
(01:32):
of people ask me questions about dream jobs. Should I chase them? What does it
take to chase them? Is it worth it? Stuff like that.
And I'm not the type of person who's ever gonna tell you not to chase
your dream job. Right? But understand and manage your expectations
around parameters, right, around managing your dream
job or going after it because it's not always easy. It can be really discouraging.
(01:53):
And I wanted to chat with Rob about that because Rob did that. Rob did
that I mean, he started the process probably, what, three years ago? Yeah.
Yeah. And you landed it, what, a year and a half ago? About a year
and a half ago. You're right. Yeah. I moved your family for it. Absolutely. Yeah.
What was that like? It was an incredible experience. So there was a lot of
times where it became very frustrating. You know, continually
trying and the progression, you know, throwing
(02:16):
applications at different roles and then
landing some interviews and getting through that process,
and then finally, ultimately hitting my pinnacle where
I landed a role in my dream location. And then
going on after that to basically uproot my family and and bring
them 900 miles away to achieve that goal. And every
(02:39):
part of it was an adventure. There was a learning opportunity from each and
every aspect of it. You know, some of the key things that you really learn
from a process like that is you have to be passionate, and
you have to truly be passionate about what you wanna do and
where you wanna be. And you have to have the support system around you.
So friends and family, you have to have your board of
(03:01):
directors really championing you all the way
through and making sure that when you hit those lows, that
they're there to prop you up. And they're also there to level set you
too. If you're, you know, getting ahead of yourself, you need people
that are going to kind of say, hey. You know what? You need to take
a step back. These are the things that you really need to look at. Are
you sure this is where you wanna go? So you have to be
(03:24):
passionate about it, and then you have to lead with purpose. You know? And and
that kind of devolves into all of that same aspect
of, you know, knowing what are you trying to accomplish and why are you
trying to accomplish that? Is it for you? Is it for a greater
good? Do you want to, you know, provide something? And
we all wanna provide for our families. We wanna be able
(03:46):
to provide for the people that we take care of and
showcase what our actual skill set is. So it was it
was an amazing experience, especially the part around having a board of directors.
Tell me about that. Because you mentioned it, and I was like, a lot of
people are gonna be like, what do you mean board of directors? Yeah. So Yeah.
This isn't a company. You're like, what's this Tell me what that means. So, I
mean, having a personal board of directors around you is is a group of people
(04:08):
that are really going to keep you in tune
with what your goals are, and they're going to be honest with you.
So most of us will look for people that
want to that will give us the answer that we wanna hear. Right? And it's
easy that way. So I will line people up that
and ask them questions that I want I know what the response is that I
(04:30):
wanna generate. A board of directors is gonna function a bit differently from
that. They're gonna be realistic with you. They're not
gonna be afraid to have those crucial conversations, those
tough conversations with you, and they're going to provide
unbelievable guidance throughout every pathway that you make. So
I would highly recommend, wherever you're at in stage of life,
(04:52):
whether you're in college or in high school
or you're in your 40s getting ready to make a massive
career pivot from one field to another, have
a personal board of directors is gonna help you through
every single phase of that in some circumstance. Cool. And I
bet you most people that you know don't also have a board of
(05:14):
directors. This is gonna you're probably the only person you know that has one, I
bet. I don't know about that. No? And, yeah, I think that there's a couple
of that. I so I learned I mean that as a compliment. Yeah. It's like,
hitting your Thank you. Yeah. No. It's and and then it's going over and above.
Right? A % is. So the so the people that I surround myself
with so I guess my personal board of directors have
taught me that other like minded people have a
(05:37):
personal board of directors, and that kind of helps build that
out and round out what you're trying to
accomplish and the people that you need to interact with. So I
definitely think that it's not necessarily a common approach, but I
think that when you think about it, it's like an
epiphany. Like, oh, yeah. That makes total sense. And I go yeah.
(06:00):
I go to people and ask them for advice all the time.
These are the folks that are my board of directors. Yeah. Make that's
a good idea. And I like, again, like I say, I recommend it, you know,
to our listeners to have and it's funny. I'm recommending it to somebody who doesn't
even have one. But it's like, oh, man. That's that thing I need to do.
And it's like, that's a good idea. Because it's an it's a next level. It's
(06:20):
you know what I mean? Like, you're going over and above by having one. So
that's pretty cool now. Let's dig into this because I wanted what I really wanted
to use this episode to do was to help the listeners, you know, say, what
does it take to go after your dream job? Now, Rob, you were trying to
crack a really tough nut. Right? Like, you were going into a company that
typically or hoping to go into a company at a higher level
than entry level and a company that typically has that
(06:43):
promotes its own because they've got great candidates that they develop already,
and you're trying to get them to relocate you. So let's talk through that a
little bit here. How many applications did it take before you got your first interview,
do you think? Probably in the range of 70.
70? 70. Yeah. Wow. And that was even with a good resume?
That was so I started prior to that with just
(07:05):
having a blanket resume and that I would
put towards roles that I knew that I could do and things that I had
exposure to, but I never really focused the
resume on that role. So and the important component of that
was really leveraging a team, like Best Culture Solutions,
to help me refine my resume and take that
(07:27):
time to spend with me to, one, get to know me, but also get to
know the roles that I was really looking at so that that we could put
together my resume. And it was a complete collaboration. And to be able to,
you know, kind of, like, brainstorm and strategize
and focus on, okay, these are the kind of roles that you should be looking
at, and these are how your skill sets are transferable.
(07:48):
I mean, everybody has the transferable skills, and it's just a
matter of finding and refining and fine tuning
the verbiage within your resume and making sure that you're hitting those
highlights. At the end of the day, we generally have a hard time
promoting ourselves. So working with you and and your team
to kind of give that guidance and help
(08:10):
promote yourself was absolutely essential
in landing this role. K. So let's go back quickly. So it took you 70
approximately, give or take 25 no. I'm kidding. A few.
Right? Applications to get an interview even without
making sure that your resume is airtight, after the resume was airtight, how many do
you think estimate, thumb suck. Within so about
(08:32):
25, and I and I landed probably about four
or five interviews in that time frame. 25. Okay. That's good. Because we
typically for we usually say it takes about ten to fifteen if your resume is
airtight. Yeah. So that means if you have a good resume, you can speed up
the curve a little bit even in a harder target like the one that you
went for. Absolutely. But it took time. Yeah. How many It definitely
(08:53):
takes time. And and how many interviews after you did? Did you actually So I
took five? I had about five interviews before I got my final
offer. Right. And the first interview wasn't successful. Correct. What'd you
do after that? So, you know, it becomes a little frustrating after
you go through that number of interviews and that number of applications,
but I realized that this was kind of the area that
(09:14):
weeded out. Am I really passionate about this? Is this really what I
wanna do? So I continued to double down on it
and look even more deeper and focus even more
on those roles that I could transfer my skills. I also knew
that there might be an opportunity where I have to take a step back from
what my role was as a director level Yes.
(09:36):
To an individual contributor. And sometimes that's the reality, and and
you have to balance that. Is that where is that threshold? Where is that
line of dedication and and passion to
earning a role in in that in that industry or that company.
Yeah. And that's right. And the thing is too is that a lot of people
get really wrapped up as a director here, I'm gonna be a manager there, or
(09:57):
individual contributor there, and they're like, oh, I don't know if I should do that.
And it's like what they don't understand is that the title actually doesn't matter nearly
as much as you think it does. I mean, we get so wrapped up in
titles, but we forget the fact that it's completely relative. Right? If you
are at the director level in a in a tiny company, say, 10 people,
that's very different than being a manager in a 70,000 person or
(10:17):
organization. And and it's also to scale and relative to how many
people are working with you underneath you on the org chart. I don't like the
word underneath. It's the only word for it. And so you should never be shy
about that, but I'm hearing that when you had to get your resume airtight, then
after that, it took about you had about four or five interviews and
25 applications, which actually speaks and and listeners could go
(10:39):
back to earlier episodes of the show, and we talk about the importance of a
resume that gets attention within three to five seconds because that's what
you have. But once you get airtight on that, you know, we we have a
guarantee. Like, we always tell people, if you don't get an interview for a role,
like, yours are up between ten and fifteen applications, let us know and work with
you until you do. You are converting approximately one in every five,
(11:01):
which is actually better than what we aim for. Because we know one in ten,
one in 15 is actually a strong conversion rate after your resume is
airtight. So it goes to show you that if your resume is airtight, you can
speed up that curve a lot even in a tough organization
that has lots of people, lots of people wanna work for them, great internal
promotion opportunities are already there. There's a tough nut to crack, but you could still
(11:22):
convert what one in five if you had the right resume. It's possible.
So that's good. Without a doubt. And five interviews after that, how long in total
did the process take? From the time that I had an airtight
resume until then, it was probably I wanna I wanna say
roughly a year Okay. From that standpoint. But,
again, very tough, and everybody has a different experience with that. So I
(11:44):
was trying to get into a very, very competitive
organization. Right. My wife also works with you
and your team That's right. Yeah. And was able to get
interviews almost immediately. And it was a obviously, it was a
much more competitive realm where they they were looking
for people, but it was almost immediate. And everybody
(12:06):
that spoke with Katie was absolutely impressed by
her resume and her skill set. So it's, it's how it's showcased,
how it's packaged, and and means the world in
that context. Yeah. Okay. So here's a question for you, Rob. After
and I wanted you to share this with the listeners because not only do I
want it to be kind of, like, an eyes wide open for listeners to talk
(12:27):
about what does it take to go for your dream job, but also what'd you
do to convert it. Right? And your first interview, you didn't get the job.
What'd you do after that? How did you stay in touch with the company or
the recruiters, or did you just leave it be? Like, what did you do? How
did you handle that? Yeah. So I made sure to stay in touch with the
recruiters and to continue to foster that relationship.
(12:47):
And from that, I was able to leverage an
airtight resume plus relationships that I built with different
recruiters and different leaders across the organization to continue
to compound on that. And that's what kind of accelerated
my ability to earn additional interviews and talk
to additional leaders. So as you build out your network, it's
(13:10):
important to have authenticity in that you're
not just going to talk to somebody because you want
something out of it. What are you bringing to them? How are you
creating this symbiotic relationship where you can share
together? And I'm gonna be honest with you, I continue the
relationship with all of the recruiters that I've talked to in the
(13:31):
organization to this day after landing my g
job and being there for a a year and three, four months at this
point. Yeah. Well, it's because it's authentic. Right? Like, you mentioned being authentic in
those approaches. And I think that if you were to just start the relationship for
the sake of getting a job because you just wanted a job for you and
then you cut off the communication or you don't stay in touch, that wouldn't be
(13:52):
authentic. Right? Yeah. And I know that one of the things
that I noticed throughout your search, it was almost as if you had an
internal team of advocates for you. Right? Because you were able to approach
that properly, and you were able to create those
relationships where they were. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. And it meant everything, I think, in
the end. And I remember you and I were talking throughout the process, and I
(14:13):
don't know how you felt at the time if you're encouraged or discouraged. But I
remember saying, you got these guys fighting for you, and that's a very good sign.
Because a lot of recruiters, they'll pay you, like, the lip service, like, you know,
thank you, and thanks for reaching out. And yeah. Yeah. We'll reach out. But not
often they stay in constant contact like that, and you are really able to
cultivate those relationships. It's really empowering and
(14:34):
uplifting when you have that level of advocacy at multiple
different levels of any organization because you know that you've
created something where people are willing to go to bat to you.
They're willing to put their name think about it this way. Anytime that you make
a recommendation or a referral, you're essentially putting your name
on the line for this person. So to have
(14:56):
somebody that is willing to do that and time and time
again is an absolutely incredible
scenario and and situation, and it's really a tribute to
the effort that you put into that relationship and also
what that person is willing to invest back in. And and when they see
that you're willing to invest a lot into the relationships,
(15:19):
then folks are much more willing to do the same for you. So I
guess to tie a bow on it all, it's pretty simple for the listeners. Hey.
Look. If you are interested in a dream job and you're trying to figure out
what is it gonna take to get it, you know, here's what it's gonna take.
Right? It took you a year and a half, around 70 applications,
25 once you got airtight on your resume, and a lot of networking, right,
(15:39):
to to create a team of advocates for you within the organization. I
suspect because you had a high conversion rate of applications to
interviews. I suspect that you cultivating those relationships with those
recruiters after you were unsuccessful the first time probably played a big
part in, right, in that higher conversion rate that you had.
Because by everything you've told me, it sounds like they're working behind the scenes. Say,
(16:01):
hey, Rob. Here's another one that I think you're gonna be good for. Get in
there, see how it goes type of thing. And so that matters a lot too,
but people can expect it to take the time because I think what we gotta
tell people. If we're if we're trying to share with them and manage their expectation
on a dream job search, hey. Look. It is gonna take time. You are gonna
have to be persistent. You know, you are gonna have to network authentically and genuinely.
And all of that to say is that the only way that you can do
(16:23):
that, the only way that you can manage your mindset around that properly is you
wanna be wanting this job for the right reasons. Right? And there's like,
Rob, you have a role that comes with a lot of cool perks that a
lot of people want. If you're doing it because you're interested in the role
and you're interested in the company's purpose and how you can contribute to that genuinely
so, then that will come out, and I think your efforts will go well. If
(16:44):
you in other words, if you want the dream job genuinely will come, it's gonna
take time. If you don't want it genuinely, then I don't think you'll ultimately get
it. But people should buckle up for at least a two year ride, I would
say, if you're gonna go for it. And, again, you know, the idea behind this
episode was just to share with people, if there's something you wanna go after, what
do you have to be ready for? And it sounds to me like two years
(17:04):
persistence, not giving up. A lot of people will give up sooner, and
if they choose to, that's okay. That's them. Right? But I I would
also say that networking is important, networking authentically and genuinely.
It sounds like, was a big lever that you pulled. But the big thing that
I think that I would say to people is that, you know, dream jobs are
cool, and if you can get one, great. And you should absolutely go after
(17:26):
them if you've got. If all the things that Rob just talked about sound good
and you you're up for it, yeah, I let it rip. But if you're
not enough without that dream job, there'll never be enough with it. So what I
mean by that is that, you know, if you don't have a mindset and you're
not secure enough in yourself without that job, you're gonna end up in a
situation where that job is everything to you. And until you have it, you'll never
(17:48):
feel like you're enough as a professional or as a person. It's really dangerous. You
need to be enough as a person outside of your work, not just your dream
job, but at any work that you do. I guess I would just tell listeners,
hey. Look. If you're not enough without it, you'll never be enough with it. So
do what you gotta do, be enough without it. Because in case it doesn't work
out, then you don't, you know, you don't walk around feeling like your life has
(18:08):
been wasted in some way, which isn't true. It never is. So Absolutely. And the
other piece of that, Tim, is that once you earn that dream
job, if you're not enough without that, it no longer is your dream
job because you're looking for that next what is next?
And pursuing another dream. So you really have to
do a lot of looking inside and determining
(18:30):
what is it that you actually want, and how do you wanna approach
that, and what is important to you. And that's where, you know, where I
kinda talked about passion is really identifying what your
passion is. Because you could be passionate in the moment
about something, and then when you get there, it's like,
well, what's next? Am I? Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean,
(18:52):
don't get me wrong. You should always be looking towards how you can improve or
go next level, but that's very different than feeling like you're enough in something and
looking to improve versus that hit next hit that you have to be finding is
very different and can be very exhausting. Absolutely. It's a good point. Okay. Looking for
something externally to feed your happiness or to, you
know, otherwise control and make you happy,
(19:13):
that comes internally. There's nothing external that is ever going
to make that happen. It could be in the very
short dopamine hit, but it's never gonna be sustained. Do you know
I learned that lesson by watching Cool Runnings? Did you really? Yes. Of course, I
did. I don't know if you remember the scene where they find out that the
coach cheated. I do remember. It's John Candy, and they say, coach,
(19:34):
why'd you cheat? He said it's simple. If you're never enough without it, you'll never
be enough with it. And that's that's what John Candy said before he passed
away. Right. So Very a very sage,
sage statement by John Caddy. Yeah. May he rest in peace. Well, Rob, yeah, I
really appreciated this, and I appreciate you taking time to be on the show.
Appreciate you taking time. Jody is here for the listeners who don't
(19:55):
see or hear him. He's just quietly lurking in the background while we record. But
I you know, it's been a great day spent with both of you,
Jody and Rob. But I also appreciate you taking time today when we're
supposed you know, when we are having fun of the park to share with the
listeners about dream jobs, so whether or not what you have to think about, right,
what you can expect when you go for them. So, Rob, if anybody that's
(20:16):
listening wanted to reach out to you and ask you to compare notes on dream
jobs and how to get them or or, like, stuff like that, how can they
find you? How can they reach out to you? Yeah. Please look me up on
LinkedIn, Rob Madiri. And, also, you can find me,
at in a business that I own, along with my buddy
Ken, Dreamfinder Designs. And we do web and app
(20:37):
development as well. So please find us on dream at
dreamfinderdesigns.com. Awesome, Rob. Well, thank you very much for
listening. We're gonna get back to our night out at Epcot here, but
thanks again for listening to the world at work.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.