May 13, 2025 • 18 mins
"There are things that are said, there are things that are heard, and there are things that are remembered. And very rarely are all three of those things the same."
Notable Moments
01:20 Why most hiring strategies break down during rapid growth
06:40 What fractional recruiting looks like in action
13:10 The key questions businesses fail to ask before hiring
20:45 How to avoid “check-the-box” recruiting and build meaningful teams
27:00 When it’s time to bring in outside expertise
Is your team growing faster than your hiring process can handle? You're not alone. In today’s fast-moving business landscape, the pressure to fill critical roles without slowing down operations is higher than ever. What happens when your internal team can't keep up, or your recruiters aren't equipped to hire outside their comfort zone?
Fractional recruiting is not just a cost-saving measure, but a smart, strategic way to build high-performing teams when internal resources are stretched. Mike Simmons is a veteran in sales, leadership, and growth strategy who returns to discuss fractional recruiting. Whether you're a business leader trying to scale without burning out your staff, or a recruiter juggling roles you're not equipped to fill, he offers clear insight and actionable advice.
Fractional arrangements should never be horror stories. They should propel your business forward, with flexibility and precision. If you want to ensure your next fractional hire is a win, focus on alignment, communication, and process.
Connect with Mike Simmons
Mike Simmons on LinkedIn
Connect with Tim and his team:
Website: https://bestculturesolutions.ca/
LinkedIn: Best Culture Solutions, Inc
Instagram: @best.culture.solutions
Email: tim@bestculturesolutions.ca
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Welcome to the World of Work podcast where job seekers and leaders come together
to build winning cultures and fulfilling careers. My name is Tim Dick,
and I am hosting today. And just like last time, when
everybody said, wait a second, that's Tim's voice coming in and not Jody or
Katie's voice coming in, it's because Mike Simmons is back again. Mike, how are you
today? I am doing great. How are you doing, Tim? Well, you know, our
(00:28):
mutual friend, Jody, would always say, don't timestamp your podcast. Make
them timeless. Don't talk about current events. But I'm doing okay because
as many people know, when you and I get together, we go into the world
of hockey for a little bit. And my team won their first game of the
playoffs. I've got my Winnipeg Jets car flag on my car. You know,
it was a good comeback win to show some resilience. So,
(00:49):
hey, we are okay today, but game two is tonight and that could change in
hours. My mood could change quickly. How about you? Well, my team
is not in the playoffs, so so I don't really have a dog in the
hunt or dog in the fight. And I am, gonna enjoy
the next number of weeks of playoff hockey, especially
this first first couple of weeks when there are multiple
(01:10):
games on every night. So I'm doing pretty good. It's playoff hockey
time. Now did you purposely use the pun
not having a dog in the fight because not only are you an Islanders fan,
but you live in the Phoenix area and your desert dogs, the Arizona
coyotes, are literally no longer a dog in the fight. Was that intentional?
No. And I don't but I don't really wanna talk about it because that one
(01:31):
hit me a bit harder. I am actually still thinking about who my West
Coast team is gonna be. I don't know if I go back to the
California thing and be a Ducks fan again
or what? But I am I am in the market for a
West Coast team. Vegas is close, so it's
easy to get up there. There is no way that I would
(01:53):
ensure for the that hockey club in Tanner's
neck of the woods. And so it's gonna be it's between
Vegas, the Ducks Vegas and the Ducks, I think, but we'll
see. I'm a I'm an Islander fan through and through, though. We'll figure it out.
Okay. Well, anyway, that to say, Mike is back cause we've been talking a little
bit about fractional when Mike is here. We've been talking a lot about fractional
(02:15):
leadership. Right? We talk about, on this podcast, winning cultures and a lot of that
could mean employing or or making use of fractional leadership to get
traction, right, on things that are gonna benefit the people in your organization or your
customers. And so Mike and I are going to chat a little bit more about
fractional, right, because we are working together on helping
people find fractional help that they know is going to move the needle. And one
(02:36):
of the things that we want to talk about is that, you know, right now,
the world of fractional, there's a lot of people that are hanging a shingle on
it or putting their hat on the fractional front, for lack of a better
term, and it's become a bit of a wild west and that's also leaving a
lot of clients with not a great taste in their mouth after the experience is
over. And so Mike and I were were chatting the other day about
(02:57):
what are some of the things that are frustrating, that cause uncertainty for
people or questions that people have or objections that people have to the
fractional world that we hear commonly or or things that go
wrong, right, in these relationships because we're trying to understand that. We're
trying to make sure that we are providing a solution, right, that
looks at those things and and gets ahead of them. So that way, it doesn't
(03:18):
happen to you in the fractional space. So we're gonna talk about that, and
I think I'll start it off. And I think we touched on this quite a
bit last time, but the biggest thing is that I think sometimes you don't
know, right, if the person that you're bringing on
really knows what they're doing. Right? And I think, you know,
AI and chat g p t have allowed a lot of people, you know,
(03:40):
to pretend like there's something that they're not. Right? And I think you've seen that
too, Mike. But I think the biggest thing that I hear about fractional is, right,
are you really somebody that knows what you're doing? Right? Do you hear that too?
Yeah. And and we can point people back to that conversation that we had on
the Find My Catalyst podcast around that experience and expertise
and some of the pieces that we talked about. And we talked a little bit
(04:01):
about, you know, like running out of gas and, some of the things that
happened in that in that journey. And I'm sure you can include a link there.
It is one of those things where we're seeing more and more of
it. It's kind of like the pool guy that you might have in the
neighborhood. And I don't know actually, this time of year, it's getting to April, so
your pools might be getting ready to open up in the
(04:23):
North. No. Not yet. Oh. So if you have a
pool and you've got someone who takes care of it, you know that the
barrier to entry to open up a pool
cleaning service is pretty low. You get a truck, you get
some tools, you put a name on a on the side of
the truck, and that's what you can do to
(04:46):
access it or create it. It's the same kind of thing that happens in a
lot of these fractional roles or consulting roles and some of the things that
are out there. And I think it's important for people to be really clear
about where they are in that journey because there's
even if you're just a little bit ahead of somebody, you could really help that
person get to where they want to go. Mhmm. But
(05:07):
don't mislead them, making them think that you're so much further
ahead when you're not really. And I think, you know, it just
kinda comes back to, let's you know, be honest on both sides, honest
around what fit is both from a client side
and from a solution provider side of things because sometimes
clients are a little bit off in what their expectations were too. Well,
(05:29):
let's talk about that. Right? So, like, I think too one of the things that
I hear a lot about where, maybe fractional doesn't work out or we
hear these horror stories in it. And I wanna be clear, fractional should never
be a horror story. It should be something that works. Right. But we just
didn't get what we were hoping for. We just didn't get what we needed
or wanted or there was misalignment. And I think one of
(05:51):
the things that really can go wrong in a fractional arrangement, if you're not
clear about it, is guideposts, right?
Or where are the river banks? Where are you sailing together? Like, setting up
expectations, alignment. What do you need? What are the deliverables? What's the work
plan? You know? And I find I find a lot of people are probably left
with a sour taste in their mouth because that wasn't defined. Right? I don't know
(06:12):
if you've you know, but I have. Yeah. Well, and I know
instances where even with documenting things really well,
expectations have been misaligned or misunderstood
or misperceived. I I ran into a situation where the feedback I got
after wrapping up a a three month engagement
was that the organization was disappointed that I didn't
(06:35):
do more on the outreach side to bring
in potential customers given my network. I
Mhmm. Walked them back through the scope of the agreement and said, that was
not in the scope of the agreement. This is what was in scope and that
was out of scope. Yet, that expectation, because of my reputation,
because of my experience, because of who I know in the area, my network, they
(06:56):
had expected that I would go out and do some of the
business development work that they were looking for, which was not in
scope and not documented. So there was clarity
there in the agreement, in the statement of work. However, there was a
misperception from an expectation standpoint on the client side. So they would actually
say that they weren't satisfied with the agreement, yet we
(07:19):
did everything that was in the scope of the agreement,
which is kinda interesting. Right. And so interesting. So how did
you, like, how did you rectify or resolve that? I mean or do you? Right?
It's kinda like this is or this is what we agreed to. Right? Yeah. Well,
we didn't we did not continue the relationship, which was fine. And I
I'm that's part of how I design things. I don't want to continue a
(07:40):
relationship in perpetuity. We didn't continue the relationship
and the owner of the business didn't provide a testimonial, which is
unfortunate because we did the things that were necessary
and in scope. But again, perception is reality.
And sometimes even with the best things in place,
you'll have a situation where sometimes there's a lack of alignment on
(08:03):
expectations and that will create a poor experience from the
perspective of either the client or the consultant or fractional person
who's doing the work. Yeah. Which leads me to another point too. I think
one of the things that I often see go wrong in fractional relationships
is there is no discussion about how it land, right, before it starts
and let's get real or there's a fear of maybe ending,
(08:26):
how do I put it, ending the relationship when it shouldn't continue
for many reasons on both sides. Right? And I think, you know, I think it's
very, very, very important that, you
know, upfront, you have stipulations for, you
know, how will this end? How do we assess, you know, frequently if
this is the right fit or if both sides are getting what they need, not
(08:48):
just, you know, like, once a year? But I think, you know, checking in every
two or three months is smart. But I see, like, a lot of
people do not They don't put those things in there. I know,
Mike, one of the things that you and I have talked about is that as
we build out our service offering around pairing up
organizations with the right fractional person for them is that we've talked about a
(09:08):
preliminary discovery sprint. Right? I mean and the purpose of that sprint
is to understand, like, what are your needs and can we deliver on them
so that we don't have these sour relationships? And then also, you know, that can
be used to put together that work plan with those checkpoints, with
future, you know, future looking how do I put it? But
thinking about how it'll end, right, or understanding how it'll end before it begins, I
(09:30):
think, is super important because you could have a relationship
fifty years, but the reality is it will end. Right? And you always have to
be mindful, like, everything in life will end at some point. And if you don't
plan for how it will end, then you really are
setting it up for, I think, even failure as you work through it before it
ends. Right? Yeah. This is one of the reasons why I think it's important
(09:53):
in these roles to operate using a sprint,
based approach. So a ninety day
program might look like six two week sprints
to carry out over the twelve week period. And then there's clarity around
what is gonna happen in those first two sprints, that first thirty days, the
next two sprints around where we're gonna go in the middle, and then the last
(10:15):
two sprints. And at the end of the sixty day period, it's
important to use that period to level set and determine,
hey, are we actually making progress toward the things that we said we were going
to, or does it make sense for us to wind things down
because there's not something else that there's not an extended agreement that
needs to go into place, whether that's another ninety days or it might be even
(10:37):
a six or twelve month agreement at that point in time. But you always give
yourself that thirty day period to wind things down so that
it doesn't feel like an abrupt stop. And I've been involved in
instances where it's been an abrupt stop and then there's this level of
uncomfort that happens there. Now in those instances, what I'll
do is I'll set the expectation of, hey, I'm always available. Like, you've
(10:59):
got my cell phone, ask the question, do those things. I'm not gonna
continue to do work on your behalf, but I will make sure that
you're in a better place than you were when we first started working with each
other. And I think having that thirty day buffer at the end of each
of the periods of time or having some kind of buffer at the end of
each period of time becomes is a helpful thing on both
(11:21):
sides, both to help the service provider who is leaving the
situation, leaving in a good place, and
help the customer make sure that they've got all of the information that they
need. Think of it as a planned two week notice or a
planned four week notice or a planned whatever to help
make sure that those things that you accomplish the things that you want
(11:43):
to and end the agreement on the right terms. Yeah. Exactly.
Just good fences, good clarity. I think I mean, there's always a theme in all
these things. Right? It doesn't matter what you're doing or what you're you know, what
discipline or what work situation you're in. Clarity always wins. Right? Clarity
is king. And that's what it's really all about. Now we've talked a little bit
about the sprint. What do you think well, let's let's talk about what the sprint
(12:05):
is, and let me define it first. So the sprint is, you know, you spend
ninety days in the organization, you know, as a fractional, understanding
what's going on, you know, in that subject matter area. So for you, you
know, you do different things around revenue and things like I do things around people,
recruitment, HR, but just getting the lay of the land, right, and understanding
what that client might need and then coming up with a
(12:27):
plan after seeing that and hearing that or observing
that. What do you think makes for a good sprint?
What makes for an effective sprint? One that leads to success afterwards.
You talked about it a little bit earlier. You know, the importance of clarity.
And anytime that we're communicating, I think it's important to remember there are things that
are said, there are things that are heard, and there are things that are remembered.
(12:49):
And very rarely are all three of those things the same. And if you go
back and watch a recording of this or listen to it and you can see
everything, Look at the transcript. It'll show you everything that was said. It doesn't mean
that everything was heard nor does it remain mean that all of the
things that we're talking about will be remembered. So
said, heard, remembered as you go through it. When it comes to
(13:11):
a sprint, the things that are most important to me are
objectives. My preference is no more than three. I'll
extend out to five if necessary, but those five need
to be prioritized. And the first three are the ones that are in focus and
we'll get to the other two if we've got the time or the
capability to do so. So objectives, no more than three. Once those
(13:33):
objectives are agreed to and our understanding
is aligned, then you move into methods. Those
methods will help determine both the scope
not only the scope of work, but the things that are gonna be
how the work is going to be done inside the organization. Does
this mean multiple calls per week? Does it mean being on-site? Does it
(13:55):
mean delivering a report out? There's going to be a
methods component. So you have objectives, you have methods. Then the third piece is
deliverables. The deliverables are the actual pieces of information that are going
to be shared, the outcomes that we're moving toward.
So objectives, methods, and deliverables. And if you
have those three things, then you can build out a proper sprint. That sprint might
(14:18):
only be a single two week sprint. It could be a couple of two week
sprints or in extreme instance, I would look
at six two week sprints or what ultimately ends up being a ninety
day engagement. Yeah. And I think you're right. And I think, you know, like, we've
both seen and heard poor stories, right, on the fractional front. And I
think everything that we have talked about and heard about, you know, a lot of
(14:40):
times, I think the sprint can really help, you know, mitigate a lot of
that before it happens. Right? I think, you know, all these things that we've talked
about getting clarity on the front end and all that stuff and actually understanding if
you're a fit, and it gives both sides the opportunity to see if they
work well together firstly to make sure that they have alignment, to make sure that
everything is set up in place and that the investment is protected in your time
(15:01):
on both sides. And it makes a huge difference and I, you know, I've done
different engagements before where there is a preliminary kind of we use a different term
than sprint, but we call it discovery phase, but same thing. And
it's made a huge difference. Right? Even though there's a little bit of investment on
the front, instead of it just being an open ended agreement to do something nebulous,
there's clarity. Right? And there's, do we understand the problem and can we solve
(15:23):
it? And if we can solve it, then we can probably find somebody who can
and make sure that they're getting the right Right? So it makes a huge difference.
Yeah. Well and and don't think of the sprint as the thing that
starts things. It's not just the start. There the
sprints can operate for an extended period of time.
I've got a client currently where we extend
(15:43):
every ninety days or so we extend an additional ninety days at this point in
time and it just makes sense to do that. I've got another one where we've
got it extended throughout the year. We've got a couple of different ways to work
through each of those. The benefit of the sprint is there's a high
level of clarity around what an objective is, what the methods are, and what the
deliverables are so that you never go an extended period of time with
(16:04):
a view of saying, What's working? What's not working? And where
are we stuck? Like, we should never get into a situation where we don't know
the answers to those three things. And a sprint
might be, at first, an initial understanding. And then another sprint
might be actually building out processes. Well,
another one might be adding people into it, but the
(16:25):
sprint helps keep things focused over a specific period of
time. So there is complete clarity and there are on both
sides relative to expectations, deliverables, and
the desired outcomes of what's happening. So I
operate in the context of sprints on all of the work that I'm
doing, primarily to help keep a level of focus
(16:47):
in the work that we're doing now. Yeah. Super smart. Super smart.
And as Mike and I work more together on the fractional stuff, you're going
to see more stuff from us. You're going to see stuff on websites and stuff
like that too. But one big thing that you're going to see about how we
will help people, you know, get clarity in the world of fractional is
that, you know, there will be a focus on the sprint. There will be a
(17:08):
focus on, you know, making sure that there's alignment along the way and different
guideposts and that you're getting the right help for what you need. And I think
that that is vitally important and it and it touches on all these things. Right?
You know, what do you need? Is the person qualified? Are they motivated? You know?
All these things are gonna be integral and vital to your
success. So all that to say, I think this is a good place to
(17:29):
leave it off. Mike, how can people get ahold of you or us and our
fractional and, you you know, all that stuff? How can they find out more? Best
place to go, for me is findmycatalyst.com. You can find your
catalyst there. So go to findmycatalyst.com. And
the fractional specific information is
findmycatalyst.com/fractional, and that's
(17:50):
located in the footer of the primary website. And there are
links to other episodes that Tim and I have recorded
related to the world at work in the context of fractional.
I love it. And then they can find us, obviously, as always,
bestculturesolutions.ca. We are, you know, again, not to
timestamp this podcast, but on our end, we're working on, you know, a brand new
(18:11):
revamped website in the coming months, and you'll see more on factual there from our
end as well. But you're always welcome to reach out to Mike or I at
those respective spots. Links will be in the show notes as well. But other than
that, thanks for listening to the World at Work. We'll see you next time.
Welcome to the World of Work podcast where job seekers and leaders come together
to build winning cultures and fulfilling careers. My name is Tim Dick,
and I am hosting today. And just like last time, when
everybody said, wait a second, that's Tim's voice coming in and not Jody or
Katie's voice coming in, it's because Mike Simmons is back again. Mike, how are you
today? I am doing great. How are you doing, Tim? Well, you know, our
(00:28):
mutual friend, Jody, would always say, don't timestamp your podcast. Make
them timeless. Don't talk about current events. But I'm doing okay because
as many people know, when you and I get together, we go into the world
of hockey for a little bit. And my team won their first game of the
playoffs. I've got my Winnipeg Jets car flag on my car. You know,
it was a good comeback win to show some resilience. So,
(00:49):
hey, we are okay today, but game two is tonight and that could change in
hours. My mood could change quickly. How about you? Well, my team
is not in the playoffs, so so I don't really have a dog in the
hunt or dog in the fight. And I am, gonna enjoy
the next number of weeks of playoff hockey, especially
this first first couple of weeks when there are multiple
(01:10):
games on every night. So I'm doing pretty good. It's playoff hockey
time. Now did you purposely use the pun
not having a dog in the fight because not only are you an Islanders fan,
but you live in the Phoenix area and your desert dogs, the Arizona
coyotes, are literally no longer a dog in the fight. Was that intentional?
No. And I don't but I don't really wanna talk about it because that one
(01:31):
hit me a bit harder. I am actually still thinking about who my West
Coast team is gonna be. I don't know if I go back to the
California thing and be a Ducks fan again
or what? But I am I am in the market for a
West Coast team. Vegas is close, so it's
easy to get up there. There is no way that I would
(01:53):
ensure for the that hockey club in Tanner's
neck of the woods. And so it's gonna be it's between
Vegas, the Ducks Vegas and the Ducks, I think, but we'll
see. I'm a I'm an Islander fan through and through, though. We'll figure it out.
Okay. Well, anyway, that to say, Mike is back cause we've been talking a little
bit about fractional when Mike is here. We've been talking a lot about fractional
(02:15):
leadership. Right? We talk about, on this podcast, winning cultures and a lot of that
could mean employing or or making use of fractional leadership to get
traction, right, on things that are gonna benefit the people in your organization or your
customers. And so Mike and I are going to chat a little bit more about
fractional, right, because we are working together on helping
people find fractional help that they know is going to move the needle. And one
(02:36):
of the things that we want to talk about is that, you know, right now,
the world of fractional, there's a lot of people that are hanging a shingle on
it or putting their hat on the fractional front, for lack of a better
term, and it's become a bit of a wild west and that's also leaving a
lot of clients with not a great taste in their mouth after the experience is
over. And so Mike and I were were chatting the other day about
(02:57):
what are some of the things that are frustrating, that cause uncertainty for
people or questions that people have or objections that people have to the
fractional world that we hear commonly or or things that go
wrong, right, in these relationships because we're trying to understand that. We're
trying to make sure that we are providing a solution, right, that
looks at those things and and gets ahead of them. So that way, it doesn't
(03:18):
happen to you in the fractional space. So we're gonna talk about that, and
I think I'll start it off. And I think we touched on this quite a
bit last time, but the biggest thing is that I think sometimes you don't
know, right, if the person that you're bringing on
really knows what they're doing. Right? And I think, you know,
AI and chat g p t have allowed a lot of people, you know,
(03:40):
to pretend like there's something that they're not. Right? And I think you've seen that
too, Mike. But I think the biggest thing that I hear about fractional is, right,
are you really somebody that knows what you're doing? Right? Do you hear that too?
Yeah. And and we can point people back to that conversation that we had on
the Find My Catalyst podcast around that experience and expertise
and some of the pieces that we talked about. And we talked a little bit
(04:01):
about, you know, like running out of gas and, some of the things that
happened in that in that journey. And I'm sure you can include a link there.
It is one of those things where we're seeing more and more of
it. It's kind of like the pool guy that you might have in the
neighborhood. And I don't know actually, this time of year, it's getting to April, so
your pools might be getting ready to open up in the
(04:23):
North. No. Not yet. Oh. So if you have a
pool and you've got someone who takes care of it, you know that the
barrier to entry to open up a pool
cleaning service is pretty low. You get a truck, you get
some tools, you put a name on a on the side of
the truck, and that's what you can do to
(04:46):
access it or create it. It's the same kind of thing that happens in a
lot of these fractional roles or consulting roles and some of the things that
are out there. And I think it's important for people to be really clear
about where they are in that journey because there's
even if you're just a little bit ahead of somebody, you could really help that
person get to where they want to go. Mhmm. But
(05:07):
don't mislead them, making them think that you're so much further
ahead when you're not really. And I think, you know, it just
kinda comes back to, let's you know, be honest on both sides, honest
around what fit is both from a client side
and from a solution provider side of things because sometimes
clients are a little bit off in what their expectations were too. Well,
(05:29):
let's talk about that. Right? So, like, I think too one of the things that
I hear a lot about where, maybe fractional doesn't work out or we
hear these horror stories in it. And I wanna be clear, fractional should never
be a horror story. It should be something that works. Right. But we just
didn't get what we were hoping for. We just didn't get what we needed
or wanted or there was misalignment. And I think one of
(05:51):
the things that really can go wrong in a fractional arrangement, if you're not
clear about it, is guideposts, right?
Or where are the river banks? Where are you sailing together? Like, setting up
expectations, alignment. What do you need? What are the deliverables? What's the work
plan? You know? And I find I find a lot of people are probably left
with a sour taste in their mouth because that wasn't defined. Right? I don't know
(06:12):
if you've you know, but I have. Yeah. Well, and I know
instances where even with documenting things really well,
expectations have been misaligned or misunderstood
or misperceived. I I ran into a situation where the feedback I got
after wrapping up a a three month engagement
was that the organization was disappointed that I didn't
(06:35):
do more on the outreach side to bring
in potential customers given my network. I
Mhmm. Walked them back through the scope of the agreement and said, that was
not in the scope of the agreement. This is what was in scope and that
was out of scope. Yet, that expectation, because of my reputation,
because of my experience, because of who I know in the area, my network, they
(06:56):
had expected that I would go out and do some of the
business development work that they were looking for, which was not in
scope and not documented. So there was clarity
there in the agreement, in the statement of work. However, there was a
misperception from an expectation standpoint on the client side. So they would actually
say that they weren't satisfied with the agreement, yet we
(07:19):
did everything that was in the scope of the agreement,
which is kinda interesting. Right. And so interesting. So how did
you, like, how did you rectify or resolve that? I mean or do you? Right?
It's kinda like this is or this is what we agreed to. Right? Yeah. Well,
we didn't we did not continue the relationship, which was fine. And I
I'm that's part of how I design things. I don't want to continue a
(07:40):
relationship in perpetuity. We didn't continue the relationship
and the owner of the business didn't provide a testimonial, which is
unfortunate because we did the things that were necessary
and in scope. But again, perception is reality.
And sometimes even with the best things in place,
you'll have a situation where sometimes there's a lack of alignment on
(08:03):
expectations and that will create a poor experience from the
perspective of either the client or the consultant or fractional person
who's doing the work. Yeah. Which leads me to another point too. I think
one of the things that I often see go wrong in fractional relationships
is there is no discussion about how it land, right, before it starts
and let's get real or there's a fear of maybe ending,
(08:26):
how do I put it, ending the relationship when it shouldn't continue
for many reasons on both sides. Right? And I think, you know, I think it's
very, very, very important that, you
know, upfront, you have stipulations for, you
know, how will this end? How do we assess, you know, frequently if
this is the right fit or if both sides are getting what they need, not
(08:48):
just, you know, like, once a year? But I think, you know, checking in every
two or three months is smart. But I see, like, a lot of
people do not They don't put those things in there. I know,
Mike, one of the things that you and I have talked about is that as
we build out our service offering around pairing up
organizations with the right fractional person for them is that we've talked about a
(09:08):
preliminary discovery sprint. Right? I mean and the purpose of that sprint
is to understand, like, what are your needs and can we deliver on them
so that we don't have these sour relationships? And then also, you know, that can
be used to put together that work plan with those checkpoints, with
future, you know, future looking how do I put it? But
thinking about how it'll end, right, or understanding how it'll end before it begins, I
(09:30):
think, is super important because you could have a relationship
fifty years, but the reality is it will end. Right? And you always have to
be mindful, like, everything in life will end at some point. And if you don't
plan for how it will end, then you really are
setting it up for, I think, even failure as you work through it before it
ends. Right? Yeah. This is one of the reasons why I think it's important
(09:53):
in these roles to operate using a sprint,
based approach. So a ninety day
program might look like six two week sprints
to carry out over the twelve week period. And then there's clarity around
what is gonna happen in those first two sprints, that first thirty days, the
next two sprints around where we're gonna go in the middle, and then the last
(10:15):
two sprints. And at the end of the sixty day period, it's
important to use that period to level set and determine,
hey, are we actually making progress toward the things that we said we were going
to, or does it make sense for us to wind things down
because there's not something else that there's not an extended agreement that
needs to go into place, whether that's another ninety days or it might be even
(10:37):
a six or twelve month agreement at that point in time. But you always give
yourself that thirty day period to wind things down so that
it doesn't feel like an abrupt stop. And I've been involved in
instances where it's been an abrupt stop and then there's this level of
uncomfort that happens there. Now in those instances, what I'll
do is I'll set the expectation of, hey, I'm always available. Like, you've
(10:59):
got my cell phone, ask the question, do those things. I'm not gonna
continue to do work on your behalf, but I will make sure that
you're in a better place than you were when we first started working with each
other. And I think having that thirty day buffer at the end of each
of the periods of time or having some kind of buffer at the end of
each period of time becomes is a helpful thing on both
(11:21):
sides, both to help the service provider who is leaving the
situation, leaving in a good place, and
help the customer make sure that they've got all of the information that they
need. Think of it as a planned two week notice or a
planned four week notice or a planned whatever to help
make sure that those things that you accomplish the things that you want
(11:43):
to and end the agreement on the right terms. Yeah. Exactly.
Just good fences, good clarity. I think I mean, there's always a theme in all
these things. Right? It doesn't matter what you're doing or what you're you know, what
discipline or what work situation you're in. Clarity always wins. Right? Clarity
is king. And that's what it's really all about. Now we've talked a little bit
about the sprint. What do you think well, let's let's talk about what the sprint
(12:05):
is, and let me define it first. So the sprint is, you know, you spend
ninety days in the organization, you know, as a fractional, understanding
what's going on, you know, in that subject matter area. So for you, you
know, you do different things around revenue and things like I do things around people,
recruitment, HR, but just getting the lay of the land, right, and understanding
what that client might need and then coming up with a
(12:27):
plan after seeing that and hearing that or observing
that. What do you think makes for a good sprint?
What makes for an effective sprint? One that leads to success afterwards.
You talked about it a little bit earlier. You know, the importance of clarity.
And anytime that we're communicating, I think it's important to remember there are things that
are said, there are things that are heard, and there are things that are remembered.
(12:49):
And very rarely are all three of those things the same. And if you go
back and watch a recording of this or listen to it and you can see
everything, Look at the transcript. It'll show you everything that was said. It doesn't mean
that everything was heard nor does it remain mean that all of the
things that we're talking about will be remembered. So
said, heard, remembered as you go through it. When it comes to
(13:11):
a sprint, the things that are most important to me are
objectives. My preference is no more than three. I'll
extend out to five if necessary, but those five need
to be prioritized. And the first three are the ones that are in focus and
we'll get to the other two if we've got the time or the
capability to do so. So objectives, no more than three. Once those
(13:33):
objectives are agreed to and our understanding
is aligned, then you move into methods. Those
methods will help determine both the scope
not only the scope of work, but the things that are gonna be
how the work is going to be done inside the organization. Does
this mean multiple calls per week? Does it mean being on-site? Does it
(13:55):
mean delivering a report out? There's going to be a
methods component. So you have objectives, you have methods. Then the third piece is
deliverables. The deliverables are the actual pieces of information that are going
to be shared, the outcomes that we're moving toward.
So objectives, methods, and deliverables. And if you
have those three things, then you can build out a proper sprint. That sprint might
(14:18):
only be a single two week sprint. It could be a couple of two week
sprints or in extreme instance, I would look
at six two week sprints or what ultimately ends up being a ninety
day engagement. Yeah. And I think you're right. And I think, you know, like, we've
both seen and heard poor stories, right, on the fractional front. And I
think everything that we have talked about and heard about, you know, a lot of
(14:40):
times, I think the sprint can really help, you know, mitigate a lot of
that before it happens. Right? I think, you know, all these things that we've talked
about getting clarity on the front end and all that stuff and actually understanding if
you're a fit, and it gives both sides the opportunity to see if they
work well together firstly to make sure that they have alignment, to make sure that
everything is set up in place and that the investment is protected in your time
(15:01):
on both sides. And it makes a huge difference and I, you know, I've done
different engagements before where there is a preliminary kind of we use a different term
than sprint, but we call it discovery phase, but same thing. And
it's made a huge difference. Right? Even though there's a little bit of investment on
the front, instead of it just being an open ended agreement to do something nebulous,
there's clarity. Right? And there's, do we understand the problem and can we solve
(15:23):
it? And if we can solve it, then we can probably find somebody who can
and make sure that they're getting the right Right? So it makes a huge difference.
Yeah. Well and and don't think of the sprint as the thing that
starts things. It's not just the start. There the
sprints can operate for an extended period of time.
I've got a client currently where we extend
(15:43):
every ninety days or so we extend an additional ninety days at this point in
time and it just makes sense to do that. I've got another one where we've
got it extended throughout the year. We've got a couple of different ways to work
through each of those. The benefit of the sprint is there's a high
level of clarity around what an objective is, what the methods are, and what the
deliverables are so that you never go an extended period of time with
(16:04):
a view of saying, What's working? What's not working? And where
are we stuck? Like, we should never get into a situation where we don't know
the answers to those three things. And a sprint
might be, at first, an initial understanding. And then another sprint
might be actually building out processes. Well,
another one might be adding people into it, but the
(16:25):
sprint helps keep things focused over a specific period of
time. So there is complete clarity and there are on both
sides relative to expectations, deliverables, and
the desired outcomes of what's happening. So I
operate in the context of sprints on all of the work that I'm
doing, primarily to help keep a level of focus
(16:47):
in the work that we're doing now. Yeah. Super smart. Super smart.
And as Mike and I work more together on the fractional stuff, you're going
to see more stuff from us. You're going to see stuff on websites and stuff
like that too. But one big thing that you're going to see about how we
will help people, you know, get clarity in the world of fractional is
that, you know, there will be a focus on the sprint. There will be a
(17:08):
focus on, you know, making sure that there's alignment along the way and different
guideposts and that you're getting the right help for what you need. And I think
that that is vitally important and it and it touches on all these things. Right?
You know, what do you need? Is the person qualified? Are they motivated? You know?
All these things are gonna be integral and vital to your
success. So all that to say, I think this is a good place to
(17:29):
leave it off. Mike, how can people get ahold of you or us and our
fractional and, you you know, all that stuff? How can they find out more? Best
place to go, for me is findmycatalyst.com. You can find your
catalyst there. So go to findmycatalyst.com. And
the fractional specific information is
findmycatalyst.com/fractional, and that's
(17:50):
located in the footer of the primary website. And there are
links to other episodes that Tim and I have recorded
related to the world at work in the context of fractional.
I love it. And then they can find us, obviously, as always,
bestculturesolutions.ca. We are, you know, again, not to
timestamp this podcast, but on our end, we're working on, you know, a brand new
(18:11):
revamped website in the coming months, and you'll see more on factual there from our
end as well. But you're always welcome to reach out to Mike or I at
those respective spots. Links will be in the show notes as well. But other than
that, thanks for listening to the World at Work. We'll see you next time.
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