January 28, 2025 • 21 mins
"Everything that you do deliberately to have a really strong hiring process is not only going to feed to your candidate pipeline, but it's going to make sure that you don't have to do this as often."
There can be a lot of excitment when job hunting. Unfortunately, for some people the initial optimism can turn sour when it ends with silence from the employer. This recently happened with Katie's teenage son. After an interview he was told they would follow up with his training date. Several weeks later there has been no communication.
So, why does this happen? From my experience, it's often due to disorganization in communication. With the variety of platforms we now use such as emails, texts, social media, staying on top of messages has become increasingly difficult. The core issue here is the lack of organized and disciplined communication structures within companies.
More importantly, I emphasized that maintaining strong follow-through practices can give employers a significant competitive advantage. When businesses stay organized and keep their word, they attract talent and build a positive reputation. On the flip side, failing to follow up leads to a ripple effect of distrust. Not just from the job seeker but also from their network, as Katie pointed out.
For companies, it's about getting back to basics. During every touchpoint, outline the next steps and stick to those timelines. In my experience, when you follow up, whether it’s good news or bad news, it shows respect for the candidate's time. It's also appropriate to give them feedback if requested. These simple acts can make a world of difference in how your organization is perceived.
For job seekers in situations like Katie’s son, remember: it's not you, it’s them. Keep showing up, being diligent, and following up; you’ll find a place that values your effort.
Turn experiences like this into lessons and improve how we communicate, respect, and value time in professional settings. Feel free to reach out if you need guidance on navigating the recruiting maze.
Noteable Moments
00:56 Communication Overload Causes Disorganization
05:47 Transparency in Recruitment Process
07:39 Effective Interview Follow-Up Strategy
10:41 Letting Go of Unreciprocated Efforts
15:11 Positive Reputation Boosts Job Referrals
18:29 Reduce Turnover Through Strong Hiring
20:33 Listener Appreciation and Feedback Invitation
Connect with Tim and his team:
Website: https://bestculturesolutions.ca/
LinkedIn: Best Culture Solutions, Inc
Instagram: @best.culture.solutions
Email: tim@bestculturesolutions.ca
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Welcome to the World at Work podcast where business leaders and job seekers
come together to create winning cultures and fulfilling careers. I'm your
host, Katie Kearns, and I am here with Tim Dyck, founder
of Best Culture Solutions. Tim, how are you doing?
Well, not as well as you because I know where you are right now.
It's true. I am in our home away from home
(00:30):
down here at the magical most magical place on
earth, actually, right now in contemporary resort
at Walt Disney World. So I can't complain about it, though I am I
I I can complain about the fact that it parks were so
crowded that Epcot, I could not get a park ticket
for because I really was hoping to record in Canada so
(00:53):
I could feel like I was with you. Yes. Yes. That would have been
amazing. It would not have been realistic, though, because it would not have been as
cold, but, you know, we have to do. And that will come
we'll do it another time. That's okay. Yes. We will. And even
though it was cold this week, it has definitely, turned in.
It's it's sunny. So I'm excited for it. But all that
(01:14):
aside, I have been really I
wish I weren't so excited to talk with you about a
recent situation with my son who is a new
job seeker. He's a teenager and finally at that point
that he wants his own money. And quite frankly, as a mom, I'm ready for
him to have his own money. So I like it. He
(01:37):
started putting applications out, and, you know, I'm
using what little knowledge I have based on what
I've been able to learn from you and starting to, help
navigate him. And he sent a few applications in, got
responses, and there were even a few that shortly after
getting responses, he got scheduled for a call. So Right. After
(01:59):
he got that call set up, things went well. They invited him
in. Okay. Things are looking good. Yeah. Good start.
He left that in person interview,
and they had him fill out another application and said,
well, we'll be in touch within 24 hours to start your training date. So we
were all very excited for him. Tim, here's the
(02:21):
problem. That was two and a half weeks ago, and he has not heard a
word. And even Oh my god. Even though he was hesitant,
he took my recommendation of sending a follow-up
and trying to reach out, seeing what was going on. Still nothing.
So I'm just I'm having this hard time with the idea
of especially teenagers, they're early experienced
(02:44):
into the workforce being ghosted. That
just I don't know really where to go with this other than what is
happening. Why do you think this is going on? Daniel Goleman (3seven zero six) (02:51):
Yeah.
First of all, that is too bad that that's happened to him and it shouldn't
happen, but I know why it happens. And that doesn't mean it's
right, but it means we have to be ever more mindful of making sure it
doesn't happen. But it's simple. I am a personal believer,
anecdotally, that we have all these extra ways of
(03:13):
communicating with people and it's made us really disorganized in how we
communicate and we drop balls and we don't get back to people and
we, you know, all these things happen that make it harder. You know, having 8
different places where we might communicate with people on our phones, or emails,
or texts, or messenger, or all these things, it
has made us worse at staying on top of communication because we could just send
(03:35):
a message anytime and assume that people got it. And
I see it all the time. People are
worse and worse and worse every day at staying on top of
messages and getting back to people and following through. And I think that
it's actually making it worse. And I think too, like, it's to the
point where that makes it even more important to be the ones, you know,
(03:57):
at a time when it's never been more important to be the ones
that don't ghost people or don't get back to people and they stay
organized. And I think, you know, it's the core cause of this is it's a
lack of organization. Right? It's it's harder than ever to stay
organized and stay on top of things. And so fewer people are are doing it
and having the self discipline to do it, and they're giving it up they're giving
(04:18):
up on staying organized sooner, if that makes sense.
So it's becoming worse at a time when it needs to
become better. And I do know that if you are the rare employer,
right, that can stay on top of things and give back to people
and follow through, this is giving you a crazy competitive advantage
now. You are right. And I think a lot of what you just
(04:41):
said, as you're talking about all the different ways that they would
communicate, I think that probably spot on is the issue.
Because initially, the communication was back and forth through a
platform that they were using for their applications. And
then they scheduled a phone call, and so they called from
whatever line they were using. And then
(05:03):
he went in, and they had him complete another application,
which was essentially, from what he said, the same thing he had already completed
online. And so then it became okay. There's 2 different
applications. And his worry was maybe he wrote
sloppy, and he couldn't read his writing To which point I reminded him,
well, they had all your information from the resume
(05:25):
and application already submitted. So it's unfortunate that
this is happening yet at the same time. As you said, it's
happening in many places. So what thinking about for the
companies that are having all those applications come
in, what are some ways that you are seeing successes with them
managing so they don't end up ghosting their applicants?
(05:47):
Yeah. That's a really good question. I think it's important because here we've you
know, I mean, we've been presented with a solution or sorry, a problem, but,
you know, but what's the solution? Right? And we gotta talk about what the solution
is, or else this isn't a very helpful conversation. But, you
know, here's what I would tell you is that, you know, it all starts
with this, is that when you're like, at every point at
(06:10):
every point of the conversation, you need to tell
people what the next point is and what they can expect from that. And here's
what I mean by that is that, okay, it should start
with the job posting that they apply for. Right?
This is something that most employers don't do, but it actually gives them a huge
competitive advantage when it comes to getting applicants because people
(06:32):
are sick and tired of being ghosted or not having transparency around
what the recruiting process is gonna look like. And so if you're upfront in
your job postings about your recruiting process, it might not have to
have timelines on it, but if there's an application deadline, communicate
it. If there is, you know, if there's a process where you can
say, look, there's gonna be a 3 interview process, communicate it.
(06:54):
It all starts there. Be transparent with people about what this process
is going to look like. So that way, you know, you're
beginning to communicate those expectations, and you're holding yourself accountable to them.
Now I know in your son's case, somebody said they'd get back to him. They
ultimately didn't. But did they give him a timeline, Katie? I can't remember what you
said. They told him within 24 hours. So
(07:14):
Okay. You did too. Yeah. That that was the other part with
couple days went by and nothing. Yeah. Wow.
That's That's frustrating. But I mean so I guess in this
case, being upfront about a timeline would not have changed it.
You know, they still didn't call back with that timeline. However, I think it's important
to start with the timing. This is the first step to having that accountability to
(07:36):
hit it. But it starts with that in the job posting itself. But then when
you actually interview people and they're in front of you, you know, it's
important that you also let them know you are gonna hear from me
by this day. Right? And to actually get back
to them by that day and write it down. Like you
need to like people nowadays, like a lot
(07:58):
of people are using online or computers for their
schedules and all that stuff, and online calendars, task lists and all that stuff. And
I appreciate that, but this is where I value my old school day timer
because I can write down, then get back. I have it with me in the
interview. If I tell somebody I'm gonna get back to them by Friday, I can
then open up my book to Friday and write down, call them back, call
(08:19):
JJ back on Friday. Right? Yeah. And so it's it's I
mean, I I we're talking about something that we almost wish that there is a
silver bullet for, but I hate to say it. It's just old fashioned basics. Right?
Mhmm. And if we get back to those old fashioned basics and follow-up,
you know, I can tell you that you will see benefits for that.
Right? And it's you follow through on the basics, and you will be rewarded
(08:41):
for it just like anything. Yes. And I feel
like the other thing that as as a consumer,
as kid's mom, I now feel I have
this, you know, uncomfortable feeling about the company, which is a shame because
they've had a fairly good reputation. So, you know, part of me
still thinks that it'd have been an oops if if they maybe realized
(09:03):
that they weren't ready to hire him? Even that
phone call would have been great. But now I'm looking at that
organization a little differently and would be hesitant to even refer
people to them as customers. So there's that ripple
effect that really is important. It's not just about saving
yourself from having a difficult conversation with somebody saying, well, now is not
(09:26):
the right time. Thank you for applying. In turn, you're it's
jeopardizing your reputation and that intent to refer.
So it's just really important. That is as you said,
it's really the basics. So if somebody else has gone through
this or is going through it, what would you say might
be a way to, I don't know, be at peace
(09:48):
with it? One thing, I had my son craft just a simple
email following up. It was a few days later. And then
also sending a phone call to try to leave a message
with somebody asking. But still, the phone
number never picked up, and the email, we never heard back.
But at what point do you just have to write that
(10:09):
off? Yeah. Like, at what point do you just kinda let it go, you mean?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Katie, honestly, it's you do your due
diligence like your son did, and that's the point. Mhmm. You know? Yep. And
it's hard because you almost wanna take it personally. Right?
But I always say to people, like, the best thing
and it's hard when you're young to do this, and you and you kinda I
(10:31):
think you get settled into it more as you get older. But there comes a
point where all you can do is make sure that you're the one that's at
the table. Right? You're at the table, they weren't. And sometimes it's
hard to accept that because, you
know, if you're at the table, then everybody should be coming back and
participating, and that's the way it should be, but it isn't. And, you
(10:53):
know, it I know when I was younger in my career, I would've taken something
like that more personally, right, if I showed up at the table and the other
person didn't, as if it was something that I did. But the reality is you
did nothing wrong. You showed up and the other person did not. And
doesn't make them a bad person either, but it does tell you that, you know,
just just let it go. Like, nobody I think sometimes we get
(11:13):
worried about that because we think it looks bad on us because they
never called us back or or anything like that. Or
we show up in relationships even if it's in different situation and the other person
does not respond, that it looks bad on us or it's gonna hurt our reputation
or mean something about us. And doesn't really. You did nothing wrong. It means the
other person did not show up. And just know that, you know, at
(11:35):
any situation, if you're the one who showed up at the table and you did
everything you could, then there's nothing that's worth losing any sleep over. And I
don't think that as well you should, you know, show up at the table in
a way that is overbearing, like, where you send them phone emails 5
times a day. But look, your son made the follow-up call. He made
the follow-up email. You know, at this point, ball's in their court. And
(11:56):
if they don't want to pick it up, then you know what? There's places that
are gonna value his time more. Yeah. No. That's a great point. And I
think it it's a really good reminder. Even in the early
application stage, you know, even when you do try to get that
follow-up, you know, you're interested in a position, it's
really hard, and there's a balance between personal
(12:18):
reflection and just understanding it's not me. It's them.
That's right. Exactly. And I think yeah. And it but it's hard.
Right? It's hard to accept that sometimes. That is. But I appreciate that
because, you know, it's also tough as a parent. There's so many
moments where I wanna step in, and and yet this is a great
learning opportunity. So I am am anybody else
(12:41):
that might be trying to help a child or
a spouse or a friend navigate this, just remember,
this is this is something that we have to go through on our
own, and we come out the other end with a little more information. And
if anything, it's made him realize how crummy that is.
So I feel like now as he moves into leadership roles as he
(13:03):
gets older, that's gonna be a great reminder that you don't wanna do that to
people. So there's definitely plenty to learn from even in this
situation. A 100%. And let me tell you too, like, let's go back to from
the employer side. And we talked about those basics. Right? Making sure that we
sit down and we are, you know, writing things down
and following up and actually doing doing that work, you
(13:26):
know, it pays off. And let me, like, let me share. Like, I
I did that. Mhmm. And it was hard. Like
Katie, it was hard. You know? Yeah. I wrote it down. And when
the day came to call people back, it it would be hard to remember to
do that. Let me tell you a little bit about what I would do. So
I would tell every person I interviewed that they will hear from me
(13:46):
by a certain day, successful or not. They would hear
from me even if they were not successful. K?
Because I thought that it was the least that I could do
to respect their time and to value their time that they spent with me was
to make sure that I called everybody back,
and I let them know either way. And I'll tell you, like, the other reason
(14:09):
why employers don't do it isn't just the fact that it's hard
and we have over communication nowadays. It's also the fact that
nobody really wants to call somebody and tell them they didn't get a job. That's
no fun. Right? And so it can be hard
to do that. It can be tough to do that, and people avoid doing those
hard things that aren't pleasant, right, because they just aren't pleasant. But
(14:30):
I can tell you that in every interview, I would tell people that they'll hear
from me either way, and I follow through in it. There were times when I
would not was not ready to give an answer yet, and I still had to
take the time to call them all and just say, hey. Look. I'm sorry, but
I just need another day, week, weekend, whatever.
But I did it, and it wasn't easy, and it wasn't fun. And when
(14:50):
it came time on my day timer to follow through, you're like, oh, crap. But
I just have so much going on today. I gotta make these calls and these
calls aren't fun and they're draining, but it paid off. Right? You know,
we hear so many times nowadays how hard it is to
recruit in today's labor market. How hard it is to find good candidates. How hard
it is to find people that are motivated to work for you. And let
(15:12):
me tell you, I would often interview people, right,
after and and just say, hey, look. You know, how did you hear about this
job? And on many occasions, I had
people say to me, well, you interviewed my friend. You interviewed my family member. You
interviewed so and so that I know. And they didn't get the job, but they
said that you were just so, like, respectful and you got back to
(15:34):
them and it was you made them comfortable in the interview,
and you actually followed through. And they said that that was a sign that,
you know, that you'd be a good person to work for and that it was
a good idea to apply for you. And so it helped. And the other thing
too is that when you do that, you know, a lot of times people
read too much into why they didn't get the job, or they can sometimes get
(15:55):
personal about it or start to take it personally. But when you actually take the
time to personally follow-up with somebody and tell them that they weren't
successful, they actually appreciate you, and then they just kind of accept the
fact that maybe this just wasn't the right fit for me. And they get more
like, they are more at peace with what's happened, if that makes sense. Right? And
so all of it is just a really good way, especially in
(16:16):
a day and age where it's harder than ever to find candidates
and reputation can matter. It's just a way that you can make
sure that your reputation is as is as strong as
it possibly can because you followed up what you said you're gonna do. I love
that. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that
a lot of it is about just being a piece with it because people
(16:40):
closure allows closure allows clarity. Let's just keep it as
simple as that. Then you know that's it. You can move forward then.
So whether things work out or not, having the
opportunity to share that with somebody might feel uncomfortable, and it
might not be exciting. But it allows them to move forward. And
as an organization, you can then move forward. So it made me
(17:02):
think of the book that I love. It's called eat that
frog. Are you familiar with this one? Tell me about this. No.
So it's all about ways to stop procrastinating. And the
whole intention is that if you do the thing
that is just weighing on you, if you take
that task and do it first thing in the morning,
(17:25):
then the rest of the day, you can be at peace knowing you've already
tackled the worst part of the day. And so it's just about
moving with intention through those lists. So I I just
when you said that about, you know, sometimes you just have to do it,
I love that book because it's just very it's an easy
read and great reminders about how to maximize your time.
(17:47):
Because when you do have a looming task, we tend to
drag out the other stuff. And so 100%. Just
getting it done, we become more efficient. So this was awesome,
Tim. I appreciate it. It's even helpful just talking it through. So
for anybody else that's trying to navigate it, it's okay to say, well,
I thought I had the job, but it didn't work out. And if you need
(18:08):
a little more support than just a family or friend, I
would say reach out to Tim. Is that fair, Tim? That's totally fair.
But I and I would just reiterate to people. I know it's hard. I know
it's not easy. And I know that hiring takes time. Right? Finding
people takes time. Every time somebody leaves, you're like, oh, I gotta go back and
find somebody again. And it does and it takes time. If you have the self
(18:30):
discipline to do these things, well, and it takes time and it's hard to do,
you're gonna have to hire less often. Right? Because you're gonna have
people that are motivated to work for you, and and they're not gonna wanna leave
because you respect their time, and then you have less turnover. You have, and I
mean, it's not healthy to have no turnover. Don't get me wrong, but you're gonna
have, you know, the good people that you don't wanna turn over are gonna stay.
(18:50):
And when you do have to find people, you're gonna have more motivated
people to work with you because your reputation is out there. And so
it's just something that, you know, look, if these things are exhausting and, yeah,
you know, having to go through the hiring process when somebody leaves, it takes you
away from being able to just operate what it is that you do. I get
it. But think about it, you know, everything that you do deliberately
(19:12):
to have a really strong hiring process is not only going to feed to your
candidate pipeline, but it's going to make sure that you don't have to do this
as often. So taking the time to make those follow ups and those phone calls
when it's time to do it, while it's hard in the moment, it's a long
term strategy to make sure you're not gonna have to do it as often or
again. So, you know, it's simple. I think our shared mentor, Lee
(19:32):
Cockrell, has often said, you know, you pay now or you pay later. And, if
you wanna pay later, you're gonna do it with interest. So do the hard
work upfront even if it's the stuff that is not as enjoyable.
And I promise you, you're not gonna have to do it as often afterwards.
I love it. And that was a perfect way to just put a bow
on a conversation that, unfortunately, I I think isn't
(19:54):
unique to my family. So thank you for that very much. Well, let's
say somebody would like to get a little more information on how
to navigate just that whole recruiting process. Would they
be best to reach out to you or your team? Well, I'd be
dumb to say no. So, yeah. We we we That would be a curve
ball. I mean, not only do we recruit for other
(20:17):
companies, we follow these processes when we do, but we also if
companies wanna get set up internally, to have great internal,
recruiting processes, we can help with that as well. So our website is bestculturesolutions.ca.
My email address is tim@bestculturesolutions.ca. Right.
Well, Tim, I appreciate it. And, you know, wherever people are
(20:37):
listening, whether you're at Walt Disney World, if you're at home, in the
car, or in the shower, I don't know, wherever you're listening from, we
appreciate it and definitely are always interested to
hear your feedback and just what questions you have
that we could help tackle. So thank you, Tim,
and thank you to everybody else for joining.
(20:58):
And we'll talk to you again soon.
Welcome to the World at Work podcast where business leaders and job seekers
come together to create winning cultures and fulfilling careers. I'm your
host, Katie Kearns, and I am here with Tim Dyck, founder
of Best Culture Solutions. Tim, how are you doing?
Well, not as well as you because I know where you are right now.
It's true. I am in our home away from home
(00:30):
down here at the magical most magical place on
earth, actually, right now in contemporary resort
at Walt Disney World. So I can't complain about it, though I am I
I I can complain about the fact that it parks were so
crowded that Epcot, I could not get a park ticket
for because I really was hoping to record in Canada so
(00:53):
I could feel like I was with you. Yes. Yes. That would have been
amazing. It would not have been realistic, though, because it would not have been as
cold, but, you know, we have to do. And that will come
we'll do it another time. That's okay. Yes. We will. And even
though it was cold this week, it has definitely, turned in.
It's it's sunny. So I'm excited for it. But all that
(01:14):
aside, I have been really I
wish I weren't so excited to talk with you about a
recent situation with my son who is a new
job seeker. He's a teenager and finally at that point
that he wants his own money. And quite frankly, as a mom, I'm ready for
him to have his own money. So I like it. He
(01:37):
started putting applications out, and, you know, I'm
using what little knowledge I have based on what
I've been able to learn from you and starting to, help
navigate him. And he sent a few applications in, got
responses, and there were even a few that shortly after
getting responses, he got scheduled for a call. So Right. After
(01:59):
he got that call set up, things went well. They invited him
in. Okay. Things are looking good. Yeah. Good start.
He left that in person interview,
and they had him fill out another application and said,
well, we'll be in touch within 24 hours to start your training date. So we
were all very excited for him. Tim, here's the
(02:21):
problem. That was two and a half weeks ago, and he has not heard a
word. And even Oh my god. Even though he was hesitant,
he took my recommendation of sending a follow-up
and trying to reach out, seeing what was going on. Still nothing.
So I'm just I'm having this hard time with the idea
of especially teenagers, they're early experienced
(02:44):
into the workforce being ghosted. That
just I don't know really where to go with this other than what is
happening. Why do you think this is going on? Daniel Goleman (3seven zero six) (02:51):
Yeah.
First of all, that is too bad that that's happened to him and it shouldn't
happen, but I know why it happens. And that doesn't mean it's
right, but it means we have to be ever more mindful of making sure it
doesn't happen. But it's simple. I am a personal believer,
anecdotally, that we have all these extra ways of
(03:13):
communicating with people and it's made us really disorganized in how we
communicate and we drop balls and we don't get back to people and
we, you know, all these things happen that make it harder. You know, having 8
different places where we might communicate with people on our phones, or emails,
or texts, or messenger, or all these things, it
has made us worse at staying on top of communication because we could just send
(03:35):
a message anytime and assume that people got it. And
I see it all the time. People are
worse and worse and worse every day at staying on top of
messages and getting back to people and following through. And I think that
it's actually making it worse. And I think too, like, it's to the
point where that makes it even more important to be the ones, you know,
(03:57):
at a time when it's never been more important to be the ones
that don't ghost people or don't get back to people and they stay
organized. And I think, you know, it's the core cause of this is it's a
lack of organization. Right? It's it's harder than ever to stay
organized and stay on top of things. And so fewer people are are doing it
and having the self discipline to do it, and they're giving it up they're giving
(04:18):
up on staying organized sooner, if that makes sense.
So it's becoming worse at a time when it needs to
become better. And I do know that if you are the rare employer,
right, that can stay on top of things and give back to people
and follow through, this is giving you a crazy competitive advantage
now. You are right. And I think a lot of what you just
(04:41):
said, as you're talking about all the different ways that they would
communicate, I think that probably spot on is the issue.
Because initially, the communication was back and forth through a
platform that they were using for their applications. And
then they scheduled a phone call, and so they called from
whatever line they were using. And then
(05:03):
he went in, and they had him complete another application,
which was essentially, from what he said, the same thing he had already completed
online. And so then it became okay. There's 2 different
applications. And his worry was maybe he wrote
sloppy, and he couldn't read his writing To which point I reminded him,
well, they had all your information from the resume
(05:25):
and application already submitted. So it's unfortunate that
this is happening yet at the same time. As you said, it's
happening in many places. So what thinking about for the
companies that are having all those applications come
in, what are some ways that you are seeing successes with them
managing so they don't end up ghosting their applicants?
(05:47):
Yeah. That's a really good question. I think it's important because here we've you
know, I mean, we've been presented with a solution or sorry, a problem, but,
you know, but what's the solution? Right? And we gotta talk about what the solution
is, or else this isn't a very helpful conversation. But, you
know, here's what I would tell you is that, you know, it all starts
with this, is that when you're like, at every point at
(06:10):
every point of the conversation, you need to tell
people what the next point is and what they can expect from that. And here's
what I mean by that is that, okay, it should start
with the job posting that they apply for. Right?
This is something that most employers don't do, but it actually gives them a huge
competitive advantage when it comes to getting applicants because people
(06:32):
are sick and tired of being ghosted or not having transparency around
what the recruiting process is gonna look like. And so if you're upfront in
your job postings about your recruiting process, it might not have to
have timelines on it, but if there's an application deadline, communicate
it. If there is, you know, if there's a process where you can
say, look, there's gonna be a 3 interview process, communicate it.
(06:54):
It all starts there. Be transparent with people about what this process
is going to look like. So that way, you know, you're
beginning to communicate those expectations, and you're holding yourself accountable to them.
Now I know in your son's case, somebody said they'd get back to him. They
ultimately didn't. But did they give him a timeline, Katie? I can't remember what you
said. They told him within 24 hours. So
(07:14):
Okay. You did too. Yeah. That that was the other part with
couple days went by and nothing. Yeah. Wow.
That's That's frustrating. But I mean so I guess in this
case, being upfront about a timeline would not have changed it.
You know, they still didn't call back with that timeline. However, I think it's important
to start with the timing. This is the first step to having that accountability to
(07:36):
hit it. But it starts with that in the job posting itself. But then when
you actually interview people and they're in front of you, you know, it's
important that you also let them know you are gonna hear from me
by this day. Right? And to actually get back
to them by that day and write it down. Like you
need to like people nowadays, like a lot
(07:58):
of people are using online or computers for their
schedules and all that stuff, and online calendars, task lists and all that stuff. And
I appreciate that, but this is where I value my old school day timer
because I can write down, then get back. I have it with me in the
interview. If I tell somebody I'm gonna get back to them by Friday, I can
then open up my book to Friday and write down, call them back, call
(08:19):
JJ back on Friday. Right? Yeah. And so it's it's I
mean, I I we're talking about something that we almost wish that there is a
silver bullet for, but I hate to say it. It's just old fashioned basics. Right?
Mhmm. And if we get back to those old fashioned basics and follow-up,
you know, I can tell you that you will see benefits for that.
Right? And it's you follow through on the basics, and you will be rewarded
(08:41):
for it just like anything. Yes. And I feel
like the other thing that as as a consumer,
as kid's mom, I now feel I have
this, you know, uncomfortable feeling about the company, which is a shame because
they've had a fairly good reputation. So, you know, part of me
still thinks that it'd have been an oops if if they maybe realized
(09:03):
that they weren't ready to hire him? Even that
phone call would have been great. But now I'm looking at that
organization a little differently and would be hesitant to even refer
people to them as customers. So there's that ripple
effect that really is important. It's not just about saving
yourself from having a difficult conversation with somebody saying, well, now is not
(09:26):
the right time. Thank you for applying. In turn, you're it's
jeopardizing your reputation and that intent to refer.
So it's just really important. That is as you said,
it's really the basics. So if somebody else has gone through
this or is going through it, what would you say might
be a way to, I don't know, be at peace
(09:48):
with it? One thing, I had my son craft just a simple
email following up. It was a few days later. And then
also sending a phone call to try to leave a message
with somebody asking. But still, the phone
number never picked up, and the email, we never heard back.
But at what point do you just have to write that
(10:09):
off? Yeah. Like, at what point do you just kinda let it go, you mean?
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Katie, honestly, it's you do your due
diligence like your son did, and that's the point. Mhmm. You know? Yep. And
it's hard because you almost wanna take it personally. Right?
But I always say to people, like, the best thing
and it's hard when you're young to do this, and you and you kinda I
(10:31):
think you get settled into it more as you get older. But there comes a
point where all you can do is make sure that you're the one that's at
the table. Right? You're at the table, they weren't. And sometimes it's
hard to accept that because, you
know, if you're at the table, then everybody should be coming back and
participating, and that's the way it should be, but it isn't. And, you
(10:53):
know, it I know when I was younger in my career, I would've taken something
like that more personally, right, if I showed up at the table and the other
person didn't, as if it was something that I did. But the reality is you
did nothing wrong. You showed up and the other person did not. And
doesn't make them a bad person either, but it does tell you that, you know,
just just let it go. Like, nobody I think sometimes we get
(11:13):
worried about that because we think it looks bad on us because they
never called us back or or anything like that. Or
we show up in relationships even if it's in different situation and the other person
does not respond, that it looks bad on us or it's gonna hurt our reputation
or mean something about us. And doesn't really. You did nothing wrong. It means the
other person did not show up. And just know that, you know, at
(11:35):
any situation, if you're the one who showed up at the table and you did
everything you could, then there's nothing that's worth losing any sleep over. And I
don't think that as well you should, you know, show up at the table in
a way that is overbearing, like, where you send them phone emails 5
times a day. But look, your son made the follow-up call. He made
the follow-up email. You know, at this point, ball's in their court. And
(11:56):
if they don't want to pick it up, then you know what? There's places that
are gonna value his time more. Yeah. No. That's a great point. And I
think it it's a really good reminder. Even in the early
application stage, you know, even when you do try to get that
follow-up, you know, you're interested in a position, it's
really hard, and there's a balance between personal
(12:18):
reflection and just understanding it's not me. It's them.
That's right. Exactly. And I think yeah. And it but it's hard.
Right? It's hard to accept that sometimes. That is. But I appreciate that
because, you know, it's also tough as a parent. There's so many
moments where I wanna step in, and and yet this is a great
learning opportunity. So I am am anybody else
(12:41):
that might be trying to help a child or
a spouse or a friend navigate this, just remember,
this is this is something that we have to go through on our
own, and we come out the other end with a little more information. And
if anything, it's made him realize how crummy that is.
So I feel like now as he moves into leadership roles as he
(13:03):
gets older, that's gonna be a great reminder that you don't wanna do that to
people. So there's definitely plenty to learn from even in this
situation. A 100%. And let me tell you too, like, let's go back to from
the employer side. And we talked about those basics. Right? Making sure that we
sit down and we are, you know, writing things down
and following up and actually doing doing that work, you
(13:26):
know, it pays off. And let me, like, let me share. Like, I
I did that. Mhmm. And it was hard. Like
Katie, it was hard. You know? Yeah. I wrote it down. And when
the day came to call people back, it it would be hard to remember to
do that. Let me tell you a little bit about what I would do. So
I would tell every person I interviewed that they will hear from me
(13:46):
by a certain day, successful or not. They would hear
from me even if they were not successful. K?
Because I thought that it was the least that I could do
to respect their time and to value their time that they spent with me was
to make sure that I called everybody back,
and I let them know either way. And I'll tell you, like, the other reason
(14:09):
why employers don't do it isn't just the fact that it's hard
and we have over communication nowadays. It's also the fact that
nobody really wants to call somebody and tell them they didn't get a job. That's
no fun. Right? And so it can be hard
to do that. It can be tough to do that, and people avoid doing those
hard things that aren't pleasant, right, because they just aren't pleasant. But
(14:30):
I can tell you that in every interview, I would tell people that they'll hear
from me either way, and I follow through in it. There were times when I
would not was not ready to give an answer yet, and I still had to
take the time to call them all and just say, hey. Look. I'm sorry, but
I just need another day, week, weekend, whatever.
But I did it, and it wasn't easy, and it wasn't fun. And when
(14:50):
it came time on my day timer to follow through, you're like, oh, crap. But
I just have so much going on today. I gotta make these calls and these
calls aren't fun and they're draining, but it paid off. Right? You know,
we hear so many times nowadays how hard it is to
recruit in today's labor market. How hard it is to find good candidates. How hard
it is to find people that are motivated to work for you. And let
(15:12):
me tell you, I would often interview people, right,
after and and just say, hey, look. You know, how did you hear about this
job? And on many occasions, I had
people say to me, well, you interviewed my friend. You interviewed my family member. You
interviewed so and so that I know. And they didn't get the job, but they
said that you were just so, like, respectful and you got back to
(15:34):
them and it was you made them comfortable in the interview,
and you actually followed through. And they said that that was a sign that,
you know, that you'd be a good person to work for and that it was
a good idea to apply for you. And so it helped. And the other thing
too is that when you do that, you know, a lot of times people
read too much into why they didn't get the job, or they can sometimes get
(15:55):
personal about it or start to take it personally. But when you actually take the
time to personally follow-up with somebody and tell them that they weren't
successful, they actually appreciate you, and then they just kind of accept the
fact that maybe this just wasn't the right fit for me. And they get more
like, they are more at peace with what's happened, if that makes sense. Right? And
so all of it is just a really good way, especially in
(16:16):
a day and age where it's harder than ever to find candidates
and reputation can matter. It's just a way that you can make
sure that your reputation is as is as strong as
it possibly can because you followed up what you said you're gonna do. I love
that. And I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that
a lot of it is about just being a piece with it because people
(16:40):
closure allows closure allows clarity. Let's just keep it as
simple as that. Then you know that's it. You can move forward then.
So whether things work out or not, having the
opportunity to share that with somebody might feel uncomfortable, and it
might not be exciting. But it allows them to move forward. And
as an organization, you can then move forward. So it made me
(17:02):
think of the book that I love. It's called eat that
frog. Are you familiar with this one? Tell me about this. No.
So it's all about ways to stop procrastinating. And the
whole intention is that if you do the thing
that is just weighing on you, if you take
that task and do it first thing in the morning,
(17:25):
then the rest of the day, you can be at peace knowing you've already
tackled the worst part of the day. And so it's just about
moving with intention through those lists. So I I just
when you said that about, you know, sometimes you just have to do it,
I love that book because it's just very it's an easy
read and great reminders about how to maximize your time.
(17:47):
Because when you do have a looming task, we tend to
drag out the other stuff. And so 100%. Just
getting it done, we become more efficient. So this was awesome,
Tim. I appreciate it. It's even helpful just talking it through. So
for anybody else that's trying to navigate it, it's okay to say, well,
I thought I had the job, but it didn't work out. And if you need
(18:08):
a little more support than just a family or friend, I
would say reach out to Tim. Is that fair, Tim? That's totally fair.
But I and I would just reiterate to people. I know it's hard. I know
it's not easy. And I know that hiring takes time. Right? Finding
people takes time. Every time somebody leaves, you're like, oh, I gotta go back and
find somebody again. And it does and it takes time. If you have the self
(18:30):
discipline to do these things, well, and it takes time and it's hard to do,
you're gonna have to hire less often. Right? Because you're gonna have
people that are motivated to work for you, and and they're not gonna wanna leave
because you respect their time, and then you have less turnover. You have, and I
mean, it's not healthy to have no turnover. Don't get me wrong, but you're gonna
have, you know, the good people that you don't wanna turn over are gonna stay.
(18:50):
And when you do have to find people, you're gonna have more motivated
people to work with you because your reputation is out there. And so
it's just something that, you know, look, if these things are exhausting and, yeah,
you know, having to go through the hiring process when somebody leaves, it takes you
away from being able to just operate what it is that you do. I get
it. But think about it, you know, everything that you do deliberately
(19:12):
to have a really strong hiring process is not only going to feed to your
candidate pipeline, but it's going to make sure that you don't have to do this
as often. So taking the time to make those follow ups and those phone calls
when it's time to do it, while it's hard in the moment, it's a long
term strategy to make sure you're not gonna have to do it as often or
again. So, you know, it's simple. I think our shared mentor, Lee
(19:32):
Cockrell, has often said, you know, you pay now or you pay later. And, if
you wanna pay later, you're gonna do it with interest. So do the hard
work upfront even if it's the stuff that is not as enjoyable.
And I promise you, you're not gonna have to do it as often afterwards.
I love it. And that was a perfect way to just put a bow
on a conversation that, unfortunately, I I think isn't
(19:54):
unique to my family. So thank you for that very much. Well, let's
say somebody would like to get a little more information on how
to navigate just that whole recruiting process. Would they
be best to reach out to you or your team? Well, I'd be
dumb to say no. So, yeah. We we we That would be a curve
ball. I mean, not only do we recruit for other
(20:17):
companies, we follow these processes when we do, but we also if
companies wanna get set up internally, to have great internal,
recruiting processes, we can help with that as well. So our website is bestculturesolutions.ca.
My email address is tim@bestculturesolutions.ca. Right.
Well, Tim, I appreciate it. And, you know, wherever people are
(20:37):
listening, whether you're at Walt Disney World, if you're at home, in the
car, or in the shower, I don't know, wherever you're listening from, we
appreciate it and definitely are always interested to
hear your feedback and just what questions you have
that we could help tackle. So thank you, Tim,
and thank you to everybody else for joining.
(20:58):
And we'll talk to you again soon.
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