June 10, 2025 • 20 mins
“Great leaders don’t wait for perfect. They make the best call they can and adjust if needed.”
When a beloved attraction like Muppet Vision 3D closes, it stirs big emotions, something leaders face every day when making tough decisions. In this episode, Tim Dyck and Katie Currens explore what it really takes to lead through change. Tim shares his experience and insights on making informed decisions that may not please everyone but will serve the greatest good. Learn how to cut through the noise, lean into feedback, communicate clearly, and lead with both confidence and humility.
Read the blog for more from this episode on how to decide what to change.
Notable Moments
[00:01:04] Disney’s decision to close Muppet Vision 3D
[00:03:54] Why leaders can’t please everyone
[00:06:39] Story from Bob & Rick Allen on decision-making with data
[00:08:54] How to lead with morale during change
[00:12:19] The importance of getting out and listening
[00:14:13] Making decisions with courage and humility
[00:16:54] How to weigh reversibility when making tough calls
Connect with Tim and his team:
Connect with Tim and his team:
Website: https://bestculturesolutions.ca/
LinkedIn: Best Culture Solutions, Inc
Instagram: @best.culture.solutions
Email: tim@bestculturesolutions.ca
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Foreign.
Welcome to the World at Work podcast, where business leaders and job
seekers come together to create winning cultures and fulfilling careers.
I'm your host, Katie Currens, and I am here with Tim Dick, founder of Best
Culture Solutions. Tim, have you heard some
(00:21):
news about the Muppets over at Walt Disney
World Resort? I have certainly heard that news, and I'm
glad that we're talking about it because. So, Katie, you were a cast member of
the 2000s? I was a cast member in the 2000s. I was there from 2002
to 2003. And for listeners who don't understand, the context
of what we're saying is that there is an attraction at Walt Disney
(00:43):
World called Muppet Vision 3D. It's a 3D film. It is actually,
as far as I know, the last project that Jim
Henson himself ever worked on before he passed away.
And it has been around for about 35 years, and it's finally
closing to make way for a big Monsters,
Inc. Attraction. And I don't know about you, Katie, but
(01:06):
when I was a cast member at Disney in 2002, 2003, it was
already talked about and rumored that. That it might
be coming to an end. Right? It might be coming to an end.
And so it has staved off, you know, elimination
for a long time, over 20 years. And now it's finally,
you know, it's finally going away, and it is going to make
(01:29):
way for Monsters, Inc. Attractions in a Monsters, Inc. Theme
land. But, yeah, that is. That is what's happening. And I do know all about
the Muppets, and I like the Muppets. I'm a little bit sad about it. How
about you? I feel the same. I spent many years.
Well, many years, many years enjoying it, but many
months when I worked there, I actually was working at at
(01:50):
now known as Hollywood Studios, but then it was a Disney MGM
studio still. And so there were many times when I was working
at Oscar Strollers, I would hop on an ECV and at Park
Close, just kind of wander around that area past the little fountain with Miss
Piggy, and, you know, there's just a lot of memories made
back in that area. So while that nostalgia side is very sad,
(02:12):
I'm very excited about what is to come with the
move to Rock and Roller Coaster shifting to
include the Electric Mayhem and have Muppet representation there.
Now, Tim, here's what's funny about that. There's been long
time rumors of the closing and change, and, you know,
I think on the upside, people are relieved to hear that Muppets
(02:34):
are still going to have a footprint in the park. But even just recently,
I made the mistake of going into the comments section of an article
about this, and people were already disappointed.
They were like, well, you missed the chance to have Power Line
represented. And as a fan of Goofy movie, that would have been cool. But
I just feel like no matter what they had decided to do,
(02:57):
even if it was to leave Aerosmith and Rock and Roller Coaster, we
just couldn't make everybody happy. Do you feel that way? That there is
just. There's so many big feelings and attachments that it's
hard and. And I can only imagine the leaders that were
making these decisions. There's a lot to weigh in that decision.
Would you say that that's something that, I mean, you've seen or
(03:20):
heard even outside of the theme park or hospitality?
Oh, absolutely. Like, and as a leader, and I'm glad you brought this up because
this is good to talk about, and it's helpful for leaders to know this or
talk through this or come to peace with it. You cannot ever
change something that everybody is going to be like, oh, okay, that's cool. And
sometimes, too, like, some people want very niche and specific
(03:42):
things that they might like or they might think is cool, but a lot of
other people might not really understand or appreciate. Right. And so I didn't.
And we kind of talked a little bit about this, too. Is that, you know,
Power Line, I mean, let's talk about that. So for listeners who don't know what
that is, that's a very niche reference from a Goofy movie from about 30 years
ago. And there's a lot of Disney fans who would really
(04:03):
think it's neat to have that or an attraction based on things with
it. But not a lot of people would say, oh, I know what that is.
Right. And so it can be difficult and it's hard. It's
terribly hard to make everybody happy. And no matter what change,
you know, you make as a leader or you decide on,
there will simply be people who just wanted to see something different or thought something
(04:25):
else would be better. So thought something else would not just even be better, necessarily
for them, but just even for the organization, Organization or fans or
whatever, right? And the reality about making change is
that it's tough because as a leader, you go through
all the things, all the stress, all the sleepless nights,
you know, trying to figure out, you know, what
(04:47):
to do, what is the best thing to do, right?
And a lot of times you lose a lot of sleep and a lot of
anxiety, you know, trying to make sure that you get it right and that
everybody in some way is happy, which is not possible.
And so that is really what the struggle is, right, As a leader,
it's. It's like putting that noise away, right? Put that.
(05:09):
Because that's what it is. It is noise, right? It is noise
to try to see if you can make everybody happy and try to
put that aside and figure out what is, you know,
the one thing or what is the best course of action,
right. That can make the greatest possible
impact for your business or for people. And by the way,
(05:33):
doing, making that best decision is often going to do
something that makes, you know, as many people satisfied as possible brings as
many people value as possible. So it's really, it's really a way or a
method or trying to understand and know that you can't make everybody happy. But what
is the decision that would maybe bring the most amount of joy
or value or whatever to. To the. To your audience or to your
(05:55):
stakeholders, if that makes sense. It does. And you know, it's
so interesting, as you were mentioning it, a story came to
mind that Bob and Rick Allen had shared with me. Now, Bob and
Rick are brothers that had worked with the Disney company
in various capacities. Their dad actually worked with
the company when Disneyland first opened. So they've got
(06:18):
some great stories. And they were sharing
one specifically around the same topic where
it's very common to hear people say, oh, the parks need more
monorails down at Walt Disney World. It would be great to have
another monorail. They should go to new resorts and give
another option for transportation. And so
(06:40):
for years that was a conversation on how could we make
this work? What is the return on
that investment? And so naturally, and we've talked about the value of
surveys before, they conducted some survey, and
what they found throughout various surveys was
that while yes, people felt that it would be valuable to
(07:02):
have additional monorail track, they said the data
far outweighed a monorail with regard to
having more character presence in the parks and even at
resorts. And so after many, many
studies and look at the financial impact of these options,
and it was ultimately decided to funnel the money into
(07:25):
expanding the meet and greets with characters, expanding
cavalcades to have characters go out to different. So they were
able to invest their funding into or their
make that financial investment into something that they
found the vast majority of park attendees
were actually wanting. So sometimes a lot of that noise
(07:47):
is just who's barking louder and not so much the voice
of the majority. And I would be safe to bet that
with a decision like Muppets vs
Aerosmith vs Goofy Movie, the same thing occurred,
where they're looking at, what is that? Majority
voice representation, Even though it may not be the ones that
(08:10):
are constantly funneled and the algorithm puts them in front of us on
social media, sometimes that's really not the vocal
majority or the actual majority vote. So
I thought that was a fascinating example that they had shared that
relates to this, where sometimes there is a lot of noise, we
hear it, and it's not going to make everybody happy. But the good
(08:32):
thing is, I'm sure that you have a few, you
know, what type of best culture solutions, you know,
that could be used in this situation to keep that morale
high. So what are things that you would say organizations
could do when they do have to make a change? And maybe it's
internal or maybe it's customer experience based.
(08:54):
Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. That's a great question. So a few things come to my
mind here. Okay? So first of all, yeah, you can't make everybody happy.
And here's the thing, right? We're talking a lot about how do you make the
decision, how you can't make everybody happy, et cetera and so forth. And the
reality is this. I mean, you know, so I mean, let's use the example
that we just talked about in Disney, right? So am I sad? The
(09:16):
Muppets. So Muppet Vision 3D is leaving? Yes. I watched it every week
when I worked there because I knew it might not be there forever. When I
was down there in February, I saw it three times in a day because I
knew it was gonna be my last time. I'm upset, I'm sad. But you
know something? A lot of times, these decisions, that they make some people
happy. Yeah, for sure. On the other hand, what goes in their
(09:38):
place or the other decision that's made? People vote with their dollars. People vote with
their feet. And I know a lot of times people get cynical and they say,
oh, it's just a cash grab, and they just want to make more money. And
probably. But on the other hand, too, people vote with their dollars. And so
people use money to express what brings them value. Right?
And so more people are going to probably like it or not visit
(09:59):
the Monsters Inc. Attraction than the Disney one. As sad as it makes me
feel. And I should point out the irony of
this is that we're actually talking about it on June 7. Not to timestamp it.
Today is actually the last day that Muppet Vision 3D is open. So.
But the reality Is a lot of times that, yeah, a lot of people are
going to be upset about something, leaving, changing, closing, sure.
(10:21):
But a lot of times the decision that you're going to make
is actually going to make even more people happy or bring more
traffic to people or bring more, you know, I mean,
not to be cynical, but dollars, right. If we're being real
and that's just reality. And why not because it's evil or sinister.
It's because that is what people, people spend money on what they like and what
(10:44):
they want and what brings them value. So it's important to understand,
right, as a leader, these decisions are hard because
sometimes a lot of people will make noise, right, that they didn't want this or
they don't want that. And that can be tough because it makes you think that
maybe that is the majority when it really isn't. And it could be the
other way around. And what you really need to do as a leader is as
(11:06):
you're making decisions, is make sure that you're keeping your ear to the ground in
some way, you know, so that way when you are making those tough decisions or
they're before you, you're making them, considering all the different points of
view and finding out, you know, what is best for,
for the whole. Right. What is best for everybody, right. Or
the most amount of people or what have you, like what is best for the
organization, the best decision you can make for all your stakeholders, thinking
(11:29):
about all of them, right. And so the way to do that is
there are many ways to do it. You know, you mentioned Rick was talking about,
Rick Allen was talking about surveys. That's great. You should survey your customers and find
out what they're actually doing and liking walking your business,
talking to people that work there, just asking open ended questions, how's it
going? What are you seeing? What are you hearing? Just ask
(11:50):
questions. Sometimes working in the business in some way on the front line,
just so you get that hands on experience, you know what it's like, you know,
getting that, getting that experience, that perspective, right. You just
need to see what is going on in the business, what people are
wanting, what people are seeing and what you're hearing. You need to have your ear
on the business. So that way when you're making those decisions, you
(12:12):
know, and you're hearing noise from all different sides of something, you can make
the best decision based on what you've seen and heard from there. But then
the next thing you need to do is brace yourself, right? Because when anytime you
make a change, even if it's going to be good for the whole. Even if
it's going to be a good decision for the organization or your team on the
whole, there are always going to be people that like it or don't like
it. And some people will be happy, some people won't be happy, and there'll be
(12:34):
a whole bunch of people in between who don't really care enough to make that
much noise either way. And I think you just have to be mindful of that.
You know, when you are messaging the change, you have to be clear about what
the benefits are, right? What are the benefits of the change or the anticipated
benefits of the change? You know, I can remember one for me
that really comes to mind right now as we're talking about was Covid.
(12:55):
Right? So when Covid, the pandemic hit five years ago, you
know, I was given a directive to that based on what the
government was saying, what everybody else is saying, that we had to
have our teams working remotely within about two days. And that was
not easy. And we had to do that because it was. It was what had
happened, right? It was the pandemic. And here we were and, you know,
(13:18):
let's get real. Not a lot of people like that. Some people did. Some. Some
people thought it was. Nobody really liked it whether or not people thought
it was the right decision. You know, we had people that were like, yeah, you
know, it's time. We have to do that. We had people that were like, no
way, I'm not doing that. And then we had everybody in between that was like,
ah, whatever, you know, we'll just get through it and come back to this
(13:38):
and life will go on. And that was an extreme
example because you had. That was an emotional time for a lot of people because
a lot of things had changed. But the reality is that, you know, you just
had. We had all different types of opinions, right? And so as
a leader, it's your job to do everything that you can when you make a
decision to get information that is going to help you make the best
(14:00):
decision on the whole when looking at the whole picture. The other thing,
though, that you have to be careful of is not know that you'll never make
the perfect decision, right? You can never get every single perfect
piece of information make the perfect decision. There does come a decision point where
you have to take what you have and say, okay, I've got all the decision
or all the information that I can get. I am now going to
(14:23):
make my decision and move on. Right? Like, you're never going to have all the
information or perfect information, get as much information as
you can to a certain point and then it's time to be decisive. And how
you get that information again, you talk to your stakeholders, you talk to your
employees, your customers, community stakeholders, whoever it is that
you can talk to, get all the information you can. There's a drop dead
(14:45):
point and date where you have to make the the decision. Then you make the
decision decisively, you message it well, but then you get ready to hear all
types of feedback. And also sometimes you know that
feedback is going to be, I don't use like you're going to
get all kinds, some people are going to like it, some people aren't, right? But
also know this, that sometimes we're going to make decisions and prepare for
(15:07):
that feedback that isn't good and stand firm in that feedback, right? And say I
appreciate you, let me know that, you know, we made the best decision we could.
But there are also times and places where that feedback gets overwhelming.
It's okay to admit the mistake. And one thing that I always tell people that
have a difficult time with being decisive or a difficult time making
that decision is, you know, you get the best information you can, you have
(15:28):
the courage to make that decision and it can be hard have the
courage to make that decision. But also know this, when it can be tough
to make that decision and to pull the trigger and to actually be
decisive, just ask yourself, you know, I'm afraid that
it could go wrong. I'm afraid that somebody could be upset. I'm
afraid that we could be making the wrong decision. Is that decision
(15:50):
reversible? Right. How reversible is that decision? If it's a
simple policy change that if you found out that it was the wrong course of
action, you can go back to everybody and say, you know what, this actually
isn't working. You know, I now see that this, you know, this was not
the best decision and we're going to put it back. Then just say that and
have the humility to admit it, right? And that that is okay,
(16:11):
you can do that. People will really respect that if you have the
humility and the self awareness sometimes and say, oh, you know what, that actually
was not the best decision and I'm going to put it back and thank you
for your feedback. Right. So to summarize, I guess that's a really long
way of saying get all the information you can, make the best possible big picture
decision and make it and be decisive. But also know
(16:33):
that after you make it, you're going to hear all Kinds of feedback and
mixed feedback. And there are times where you're going to have to stand firm in
the face of mixed feedback. But then there are times where if it really just
doesn't work out or it's really not working out, that you can
have the humility to take a step back and say, you know what? This decision
did not work out. We're going to put things back the way they were. And
(16:54):
when you have to make those tough decisions, you know, weighing how reversible they are
can help you have more courage to make it, if that makes sense. And,
and know that, you know, if it doesn't work out, you can go back, you're
not cornered. And that's a big thing. That was so much
good information. And all that's going through my head right now
is this is exactly why if you plan to be
(17:16):
a leader, you need to prepare yourself to make those hard
decisions. Because if you are, you know, if
you fall heavily into the emotion, which is
very easy to do, and I think it's safe to say every leader struggles with
balancing that emotion with the long term
impact of the employee and customer and business in
(17:38):
itself. It's just, it's not an easy job and it
is not something that you should ever just make those decisions alone.
You just laid out so many ways that you can take
that heaviness as a leader off your shoulders by
incorporating that feedback, the
getting out there. And as Lee always says, get off
(18:01):
the carpet and onto the concrete and
hearing it for yourself to clear the noise.
Going to your team, working directly with customers, with
employees, with outside resources, anybody that can
help you really make an informed decision will
be what sets you up, up for success as a leader. So
(18:23):
I highly recommend that if you are working on navigating some of
these really big changes or trying to make sure that your
organizational culture doesn't get disrupted when you know
there's a change looming. Reach out to Tim. I feel like he's
got more ways that would help you specifically. So, Tim,
how could people get in touch with you and your team? Well, I'm
(18:46):
glad you asked. It's actually fairly simple. You can see our website is
@bestculturesolutions CA, but my email address as
well is timestculturesolutions CA. It's as easy as that.
Well, and goodness knows there's plenty of big decisions every day that
we have to navigate, so never hesitate to reach out. I know
everybody that works with you is always so grateful for it. So thank you
(19:09):
for indulging in this conversation. Because, goodness, if the Muppet
topic is not a hot one right now. Yeah. For
anybody who's watching or paying any attention to Disney or Disney
World, I mean, hey, it's news that has been over 20 years in the making
and it's finally happened. So it's one of those things where there
probably has been a decision to be made that would actually
(19:31):
increase visitorship in some way, shape or form. But there has been
sentimental value to that show and to that attraction for a
reason, and that's probably why it's lasted for as long as it
has. As much as I love it, being honest, it probably has lasted longer than
other things would because of the sentimental value.
But I guess it's time has come. And I have emotionally prepared for this
(19:54):
for 20 years, so I'm okay. To be honest, I think a
lot of us expected it to go away when Galaxy's Edge opened the Star wars
expansion. So, hey, we got a few bonus years, and for that I
am grateful. Yeah, me too. Me too. All
right, Tim, well, until next time, take it easy. And I
appreciate your insights as always. See you
(20:15):
sooner.
Foreign.
Welcome to the World at Work podcast, where business leaders and job
seekers come together to create winning cultures and fulfilling careers.
I'm your host, Katie Currens, and I am here with Tim Dick, founder of Best
Culture Solutions. Tim, have you heard some
(00:21):
news about the Muppets over at Walt Disney
World Resort? I have certainly heard that news, and I'm
glad that we're talking about it because. So, Katie, you were a cast member of
the 2000s? I was a cast member in the 2000s. I was there from 2002
to 2003. And for listeners who don't understand, the context
of what we're saying is that there is an attraction at Walt Disney
(00:43):
World called Muppet Vision 3D. It's a 3D film. It is actually,
as far as I know, the last project that Jim
Henson himself ever worked on before he passed away.
And it has been around for about 35 years, and it's finally
closing to make way for a big Monsters,
Inc. Attraction. And I don't know about you, Katie, but
(01:06):
when I was a cast member at Disney in 2002, 2003, it was
already talked about and rumored that. That it might
be coming to an end. Right? It might be coming to an end.
And so it has staved off, you know, elimination
for a long time, over 20 years. And now it's finally,
you know, it's finally going away, and it is going to make
(01:29):
way for Monsters, Inc. Attractions in a Monsters, Inc. Theme
land. But, yeah, that is. That is what's happening. And I do know all about
the Muppets, and I like the Muppets. I'm a little bit sad about it. How
about you? I feel the same. I spent many years.
Well, many years, many years enjoying it, but many
months when I worked there, I actually was working at at
(01:50):
now known as Hollywood Studios, but then it was a Disney MGM
studio still. And so there were many times when I was working
at Oscar Strollers, I would hop on an ECV and at Park
Close, just kind of wander around that area past the little fountain with Miss
Piggy, and, you know, there's just a lot of memories made
back in that area. So while that nostalgia side is very sad,
(02:12):
I'm very excited about what is to come with the
move to Rock and Roller Coaster shifting to
include the Electric Mayhem and have Muppet representation there.
Now, Tim, here's what's funny about that. There's been long
time rumors of the closing and change, and, you know,
I think on the upside, people are relieved to hear that Muppets
(02:34):
are still going to have a footprint in the park. But even just recently,
I made the mistake of going into the comments section of an article
about this, and people were already disappointed.
They were like, well, you missed the chance to have Power Line
represented. And as a fan of Goofy movie, that would have been cool. But
I just feel like no matter what they had decided to do,
(02:57):
even if it was to leave Aerosmith and Rock and Roller Coaster, we
just couldn't make everybody happy. Do you feel that way? That there is
just. There's so many big feelings and attachments that it's
hard and. And I can only imagine the leaders that were
making these decisions. There's a lot to weigh in that decision.
Would you say that that's something that, I mean, you've seen or
(03:20):
heard even outside of the theme park or hospitality?
Oh, absolutely. Like, and as a leader, and I'm glad you brought this up because
this is good to talk about, and it's helpful for leaders to know this or
talk through this or come to peace with it. You cannot ever
change something that everybody is going to be like, oh, okay, that's cool. And
sometimes, too, like, some people want very niche and specific
(03:42):
things that they might like or they might think is cool, but a lot of
other people might not really understand or appreciate. Right. And so I didn't.
And we kind of talked a little bit about this, too. Is that, you know,
Power Line, I mean, let's talk about that. So for listeners who don't know what
that is, that's a very niche reference from a Goofy movie from about 30 years
ago. And there's a lot of Disney fans who would really
(04:03):
think it's neat to have that or an attraction based on things with
it. But not a lot of people would say, oh, I know what that is.
Right. And so it can be difficult and it's hard. It's
terribly hard to make everybody happy. And no matter what change,
you know, you make as a leader or you decide on,
there will simply be people who just wanted to see something different or thought something
(04:25):
else would be better. So thought something else would not just even be better, necessarily
for them, but just even for the organization, Organization or fans or
whatever, right? And the reality about making change is
that it's tough because as a leader, you go through
all the things, all the stress, all the sleepless nights,
you know, trying to figure out, you know, what
(04:47):
to do, what is the best thing to do, right?
And a lot of times you lose a lot of sleep and a lot of
anxiety, you know, trying to make sure that you get it right and that
everybody in some way is happy, which is not possible.
And so that is really what the struggle is, right, As a leader,
it's. It's like putting that noise away, right? Put that.
(05:09):
Because that's what it is. It is noise, right? It is noise
to try to see if you can make everybody happy and try to
put that aside and figure out what is, you know,
the one thing or what is the best course of action,
right. That can make the greatest possible
impact for your business or for people. And by the way,
(05:33):
doing, making that best decision is often going to do
something that makes, you know, as many people satisfied as possible brings as
many people value as possible. So it's really, it's really a way or a
method or trying to understand and know that you can't make everybody happy. But what
is the decision that would maybe bring the most amount of joy
or value or whatever to. To the. To your audience or to your
(05:55):
stakeholders, if that makes sense. It does. And you know, it's
so interesting, as you were mentioning it, a story came to
mind that Bob and Rick Allen had shared with me. Now, Bob and
Rick are brothers that had worked with the Disney company
in various capacities. Their dad actually worked with
the company when Disneyland first opened. So they've got
(06:18):
some great stories. And they were sharing
one specifically around the same topic where
it's very common to hear people say, oh, the parks need more
monorails down at Walt Disney World. It would be great to have
another monorail. They should go to new resorts and give
another option for transportation. And so
(06:40):
for years that was a conversation on how could we make
this work? What is the return on
that investment? And so naturally, and we've talked about the value of
surveys before, they conducted some survey, and
what they found throughout various surveys was
that while yes, people felt that it would be valuable to
(07:02):
have additional monorail track, they said the data
far outweighed a monorail with regard to
having more character presence in the parks and even at
resorts. And so after many, many
studies and look at the financial impact of these options,
and it was ultimately decided to funnel the money into
(07:25):
expanding the meet and greets with characters, expanding
cavalcades to have characters go out to different. So they were
able to invest their funding into or their
make that financial investment into something that they
found the vast majority of park attendees
were actually wanting. So sometimes a lot of that noise
(07:47):
is just who's barking louder and not so much the voice
of the majority. And I would be safe to bet that
with a decision like Muppets vs
Aerosmith vs Goofy Movie, the same thing occurred,
where they're looking at, what is that? Majority
voice representation, Even though it may not be the ones that
(08:10):
are constantly funneled and the algorithm puts them in front of us on
social media, sometimes that's really not the vocal
majority or the actual majority vote. So
I thought that was a fascinating example that they had shared that
relates to this, where sometimes there is a lot of noise, we
hear it, and it's not going to make everybody happy. But the good
(08:32):
thing is, I'm sure that you have a few, you
know, what type of best culture solutions, you know,
that could be used in this situation to keep that morale
high. So what are things that you would say organizations
could do when they do have to make a change? And maybe it's
internal or maybe it's customer experience based.
(08:54):
Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. That's a great question. So a few things come to my
mind here. Okay? So first of all, yeah, you can't make everybody happy.
And here's the thing, right? We're talking a lot about how do you make the
decision, how you can't make everybody happy, et cetera and so forth. And the
reality is this. I mean, you know, so I mean, let's use the example
that we just talked about in Disney, right? So am I sad? The
(09:16):
Muppets. So Muppet Vision 3D is leaving? Yes. I watched it every week
when I worked there because I knew it might not be there forever. When I
was down there in February, I saw it three times in a day because I
knew it was gonna be my last time. I'm upset, I'm sad. But you
know something? A lot of times, these decisions, that they make some people
happy. Yeah, for sure. On the other hand, what goes in their
(09:38):
place or the other decision that's made? People vote with their dollars. People vote with
their feet. And I know a lot of times people get cynical and they say,
oh, it's just a cash grab, and they just want to make more money. And
probably. But on the other hand, too, people vote with their dollars. And so
people use money to express what brings them value. Right?
And so more people are going to probably like it or not visit
(09:59):
the Monsters Inc. Attraction than the Disney one. As sad as it makes me
feel. And I should point out the irony of
this is that we're actually talking about it on June 7. Not to timestamp it.
Today is actually the last day that Muppet Vision 3D is open. So.
But the reality Is a lot of times that, yeah, a lot of people are
going to be upset about something, leaving, changing, closing, sure.
(10:21):
But a lot of times the decision that you're going to make
is actually going to make even more people happy or bring more
traffic to people or bring more, you know, I mean,
not to be cynical, but dollars, right. If we're being real
and that's just reality. And why not because it's evil or sinister.
It's because that is what people, people spend money on what they like and what
(10:44):
they want and what brings them value. So it's important to understand,
right, as a leader, these decisions are hard because
sometimes a lot of people will make noise, right, that they didn't want this or
they don't want that. And that can be tough because it makes you think that
maybe that is the majority when it really isn't. And it could be the
other way around. And what you really need to do as a leader is as
(11:06):
you're making decisions, is make sure that you're keeping your ear to the ground in
some way, you know, so that way when you are making those tough decisions or
they're before you, you're making them, considering all the different points of
view and finding out, you know, what is best for,
for the whole. Right. What is best for everybody, right. Or
the most amount of people or what have you, like what is best for the
organization, the best decision you can make for all your stakeholders, thinking
(11:29):
about all of them, right. And so the way to do that is
there are many ways to do it. You know, you mentioned Rick was talking about,
Rick Allen was talking about surveys. That's great. You should survey your customers and find
out what they're actually doing and liking walking your business,
talking to people that work there, just asking open ended questions, how's it
going? What are you seeing? What are you hearing? Just ask
(11:50):
questions. Sometimes working in the business in some way on the front line,
just so you get that hands on experience, you know what it's like, you know,
getting that, getting that experience, that perspective, right. You just
need to see what is going on in the business, what people are
wanting, what people are seeing and what you're hearing. You need to have your ear
on the business. So that way when you're making those decisions, you
(12:12):
know, and you're hearing noise from all different sides of something, you can make
the best decision based on what you've seen and heard from there. But then
the next thing you need to do is brace yourself, right? Because when anytime you
make a change, even if it's going to be good for the whole. Even if
it's going to be a good decision for the organization or your team on the
whole, there are always going to be people that like it or don't like
it. And some people will be happy, some people won't be happy, and there'll be
(12:34):
a whole bunch of people in between who don't really care enough to make that
much noise either way. And I think you just have to be mindful of that.
You know, when you are messaging the change, you have to be clear about what
the benefits are, right? What are the benefits of the change or the anticipated
benefits of the change? You know, I can remember one for me
that really comes to mind right now as we're talking about was Covid.
(12:55):
Right? So when Covid, the pandemic hit five years ago, you
know, I was given a directive to that based on what the
government was saying, what everybody else is saying, that we had to
have our teams working remotely within about two days. And that was
not easy. And we had to do that because it was. It was what had
happened, right? It was the pandemic. And here we were and, you know,
(13:18):
let's get real. Not a lot of people like that. Some people did. Some. Some
people thought it was. Nobody really liked it whether or not people thought
it was the right decision. You know, we had people that were like, yeah, you
know, it's time. We have to do that. We had people that were like, no
way, I'm not doing that. And then we had everybody in between that was like,
ah, whatever, you know, we'll just get through it and come back to this
(13:38):
and life will go on. And that was an extreme
example because you had. That was an emotional time for a lot of people because
a lot of things had changed. But the reality is that, you know, you just
had. We had all different types of opinions, right? And so as
a leader, it's your job to do everything that you can when you make a
decision to get information that is going to help you make the best
(14:00):
decision on the whole when looking at the whole picture. The other thing,
though, that you have to be careful of is not know that you'll never make
the perfect decision, right? You can never get every single perfect
piece of information make the perfect decision. There does come a decision point where
you have to take what you have and say, okay, I've got all the decision
or all the information that I can get. I am now going to
(14:23):
make my decision and move on. Right? Like, you're never going to have all the
information or perfect information, get as much information as
you can to a certain point and then it's time to be decisive. And how
you get that information again, you talk to your stakeholders, you talk to your
employees, your customers, community stakeholders, whoever it is that
you can talk to, get all the information you can. There's a drop dead
(14:45):
point and date where you have to make the the decision. Then you make the
decision decisively, you message it well, but then you get ready to hear all
types of feedback. And also sometimes you know that
feedback is going to be, I don't use like you're going to
get all kinds, some people are going to like it, some people aren't, right? But
also know this, that sometimes we're going to make decisions and prepare for
(15:07):
that feedback that isn't good and stand firm in that feedback, right? And say I
appreciate you, let me know that, you know, we made the best decision we could.
But there are also times and places where that feedback gets overwhelming.
It's okay to admit the mistake. And one thing that I always tell people that
have a difficult time with being decisive or a difficult time making
that decision is, you know, you get the best information you can, you have
(15:28):
the courage to make that decision and it can be hard have the
courage to make that decision. But also know this, when it can be tough
to make that decision and to pull the trigger and to actually be
decisive, just ask yourself, you know, I'm afraid that
it could go wrong. I'm afraid that somebody could be upset. I'm
afraid that we could be making the wrong decision. Is that decision
(15:50):
reversible? Right. How reversible is that decision? If it's a
simple policy change that if you found out that it was the wrong course of
action, you can go back to everybody and say, you know what, this actually
isn't working. You know, I now see that this, you know, this was not
the best decision and we're going to put it back. Then just say that and
have the humility to admit it, right? And that that is okay,
(16:11):
you can do that. People will really respect that if you have the
humility and the self awareness sometimes and say, oh, you know what, that actually
was not the best decision and I'm going to put it back and thank you
for your feedback. Right. So to summarize, I guess that's a really long
way of saying get all the information you can, make the best possible big picture
decision and make it and be decisive. But also know
(16:33):
that after you make it, you're going to hear all Kinds of feedback and
mixed feedback. And there are times where you're going to have to stand firm in
the face of mixed feedback. But then there are times where if it really just
doesn't work out or it's really not working out, that you can
have the humility to take a step back and say, you know what? This decision
did not work out. We're going to put things back the way they were. And
(16:54):
when you have to make those tough decisions, you know, weighing how reversible they are
can help you have more courage to make it, if that makes sense. And,
and know that, you know, if it doesn't work out, you can go back, you're
not cornered. And that's a big thing. That was so much
good information. And all that's going through my head right now
is this is exactly why if you plan to be
(17:16):
a leader, you need to prepare yourself to make those hard
decisions. Because if you are, you know, if
you fall heavily into the emotion, which is
very easy to do, and I think it's safe to say every leader struggles with
balancing that emotion with the long term
impact of the employee and customer and business in
(17:38):
itself. It's just, it's not an easy job and it
is not something that you should ever just make those decisions alone.
You just laid out so many ways that you can take
that heaviness as a leader off your shoulders by
incorporating that feedback, the
getting out there. And as Lee always says, get off
(18:01):
the carpet and onto the concrete and
hearing it for yourself to clear the noise.
Going to your team, working directly with customers, with
employees, with outside resources, anybody that can
help you really make an informed decision will
be what sets you up, up for success as a leader. So
(18:23):
I highly recommend that if you are working on navigating some of
these really big changes or trying to make sure that your
organizational culture doesn't get disrupted when you know
there's a change looming. Reach out to Tim. I feel like he's
got more ways that would help you specifically. So, Tim,
how could people get in touch with you and your team? Well, I'm
(18:46):
glad you asked. It's actually fairly simple. You can see our website is
@bestculturesolutions CA, but my email address as
well is timestculturesolutions CA. It's as easy as that.
Well, and goodness knows there's plenty of big decisions every day that
we have to navigate, so never hesitate to reach out. I know
everybody that works with you is always so grateful for it. So thank you
(19:09):
for indulging in this conversation. Because, goodness, if the Muppet
topic is not a hot one right now. Yeah. For
anybody who's watching or paying any attention to Disney or Disney
World, I mean, hey, it's news that has been over 20 years in the making
and it's finally happened. So it's one of those things where there
probably has been a decision to be made that would actually
(19:31):
increase visitorship in some way, shape or form. But there has been
sentimental value to that show and to that attraction for a
reason, and that's probably why it's lasted for as long as it
has. As much as I love it, being honest, it probably has lasted longer than
other things would because of the sentimental value.
But I guess it's time has come. And I have emotionally prepared for this
(19:54):
for 20 years, so I'm okay. To be honest, I think a
lot of us expected it to go away when Galaxy's Edge opened the Star wars
expansion. So, hey, we got a few bonus years, and for that I
am grateful. Yeah, me too. Me too. All
right, Tim, well, until next time, take it easy. And I
appreciate your insights as always. See you
(20:15):
sooner.
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