January 14, 2025 • 15 mins
"Of all the things that we do to help people, two that we are most passionate about are helping organizations with hiring people right then training and onboarding them right."
Onboarding is crucial, yet so many organizations overlook its importance. Have you ever been thrown into a new job with more questions than answers? In my conversation with Katie, we talk about onboarding disasters that can derail a new employee’s confidence from day one. Read my blog for more about avoiding onboarding mistakes.
Notable Moments
01:37 Onboarding transcends paperwork; crucial for employee retention.
05:23 Binder alone isn't effective; real-life experience needed.
08:01 Teach them then allow independence to build confidence and growth.
12:09 Poor onboarding can cause confusion and turnover.
14:03 Reach out and share onboarding experiences with Tim.
Connect with Tim and his team:
Website: https://bestculturesolutions.ca/
LinkedIn: Best Culture Solutions, Inc
Instagram: @best.culture.solutions
Email: tim@bestculturesolutions.ca
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Welcome to the World at Work podcast where business leaders and job seekers
come together to create winning cultures and fulfilling careers. I'm your
host, Katie Courant, and I am here again with Tim Ditt, founder of
Best Culture Solutions. Tim, how is it going today?
It is awesome. How are you? I am well cold
and excited to continue our conversation about
(00:30):
the onboarding experiences we've had. I feel like we both could have
kept going with that last one. And so only
makes sense to jump back into it. Yeah. Everything. What
of the what yeah. Our last one was the what to do's. That
was good, and we could've gone forever. But the thing is that if
we had told everybody everything at at once, then there'd be no reason to come
(00:53):
back. But I think today, let's talk about, things that
we have seen that are not so good in our in our travels when it
comes to onboarding. Yes. And, unfortunately, I feel
like everybody has a story that something didn't go so great
for them. And the important piece is then recognizing,
okay. Well, what is the opportunity? So Yep. Hopefully,
(01:15):
with this conversation, you're not only able to
commiserate with us on some less than favorable onboarding
experiences that then also take away, okay. So
maybe this is how I could look at it. And if you really want to
dive into the things that Tim and I think are priority, make sure to check
the last episode out where we do talk about those positives of onboarding.
(01:38):
So, Tim, I'm gonna jump right in this time with my first one,
which is it's nonexistent. Oh, yeah. Good point. I
didn't think of that. Yeah. Because, unfortunately, I think in
times where things may be a
rushed hire, like, you might need a spot filled
urgently, somebody unexpectedly doesn't show up
(02:00):
or things you know, you just have a role you need to fill
immediately. There sometimes can be that assumption
that, well, it's not that difficult. You can just jump right in, and
we'll be here. Just ask questions, and we'll help you through it. So
my biggest one would be if you don't even really
set up anything called onboarding. There's nothing there. Yeah. See,
(02:22):
I I was gonna give people the benefit of the doubt of saying that there
was at least gonna be something because we were gonna talk
about things in the onboarding processes that do not work well. But
to your point, the onboarding process exists whether or not
people actually think about having one or not. And so it doesn't work very well
if you do not have anything. Anything. And and you might
(02:45):
I think part of it is the misunderstanding sometimes
that onboarding means that you're completing your new hire paperwork.
Onboarding meaning that it's when you come in, you show any
type of identification, you fill out your tax paperwork, or you
fill out your payroll paperwork, or you get your picture
for your ID. That is part of it. It
(03:08):
could be, but that's not the onboarding that is
going to get you to retain really
excellent employees. That's just part of the technical side.
So I think my concern is helping people understand
that it's not just a paperwork day, and then you hand over the badge and
say, well, have a great time. Good luck. Yeah. They're vicious out
(03:30):
there. Yeah. You know, I was gonna give people benefit
of the doubt and say what at least you Canadian versus US thing. Am I
being a little negative? No. You're right.
It it you'd be surprised. Like, it happens a lot
everywhere. It happens a lot. So I for instance, where I
live, you know, there's a tendency for a lot of people to think that
(03:51):
everything had to be done yesterday. Because a lot of times it did. And so
they rush people through these things and just put them in and they don't it
is very common here. So my number one is also
very common here for the same reasons, and it's common
everywhere. In the last episode, we talked a little bit about
communicating purpose. Right. And why we are not just, you know, here's
(04:13):
a bunch of rules. So the number one thing, right, that I have seen that
makes for poor onboarding process is people just being
thrown a binder or a book of rules. Right? And saying, here
are our policies. Read them. And make no mistake, you
know, your onboarding process, is it absolutely an
important time to communicate your policies and your
(04:35):
and and your process? Yes. As a matter of fact, that's when you have to
do that, and you should do that. But if that's all you're doing,
you're not providing any context around purpose, or if you're not providing any
context around why we do this or what our values are, is is here's our
binder of policies. Read them. Do not do that. It will not stick with
people. And most importantly, when people read
(04:57):
that, they're not going to be your brand. They're
just gonna be following a bunch of rules. They're not gonna learn about what it
is that you want your brand to be. And so they
cannot embody when they follow those rules, you want them
to embody your brand in so doing. If you don't tell
people what the purpose or the brand is, it will not matter.
(05:19):
And so if you just throw a binder of rules at people, it will not
work. And to follow that, my number 2, if you
give them a binder that explains what their
role does or what equipment is, it's probably not going to
work. My you know, it's very similar in that binder mindset, and
it's remembering my own experience when I was moving
(05:40):
into a sales role. And one of the leaders
sat with me for an hour and flipped through a I don't even
know how many pages, binder of all the different equipment.
And he he'd been with the company. I mean, he was one
of the original and he had been with the
company for many, many years, and he
(06:02):
knew it inside and out. And I'm sitting there
as he pay turned page after page thinking, I have so many
questions. First of all, can I see it in real life? Can I see
what you're talking about? And part of that is the different learning styles, and that's
a whole other conversation. But Sure. Spending an hour flipping
page by page, just pointing out this is this is this.
(06:25):
This is this. This is this. It's just not gonna stick. It's not an
effective way. Having more conversation, having people
interacting with different pieces, I think that would have gone much further
than just sitting with a binder and saying, here you go
now. Any questions? Because let me tell you, there
were so many, and yet I also had none because I didn't even know where
(06:47):
to begin. So, yeah, a binder can be a slippery
slope. Is it great to have as a resource? For sure. I think
whether it's the policies and procedures, any
type of manual is helpful, digital print, but that cannot
be your only resource. And it changes and
needs updates. So please make sure that you're also updating your
(07:10):
materials for others when your organization might make a
change. That's a big one. 100%. Okay. So my second one
is not knowing when to let go, and here's what I mean by that. We
talked last time about how sometimes onboarding, right,
there's more to it than just use your day, and are we doing check ins
and all that stuff? And I'm a believer that you do need to do, like,
(07:30):
your company onboarding or that high level stuff, and then also some
opportunity to train or get onboarded in the in the actual
position and what you have to do and learn those tools. But I have
seen onboarding processes that go on for 6, 7, 8 months and just do not
know when to let go. Because people will say, oh, well, you
haven't seen this situation yet. It's like a really
(07:52):
specific set of circumstances, and it's like, look. At
some point, even if you haven't seen that circumstance yet, there's a high level
process. There's a high level thought that you want them
to walk through, and that is not gonna change. And so what
you need to do is you need to give people
opportunity to learn your processes, learn your tools, learn
(08:15):
that, and then be left to use them. Even if they haven't been able to
use them in every single situation
when
you hold on to people so long? I've I've seen people that have had to
shadow somebody for, like, 6 or 7 months in an entry level role just
until somebody felt they were ready, which is not necessarily
(08:37):
true. When you do that to people, you actually completely undermine
their confidence. And so it should be very simple. Make a list and
inventory of all the tools and processes that they need to know for that specific
job, show them how to do it, then let them do
it themselves once or twice while you watch, and then let them
go. Right? And let them use the tools and let them play in the
(09:00):
sandbox because they're not gonna build their confidence if they spend 6 or 7 months
having to be watched everything that they do. And so no one to let go
or else nobody's going to grow in the role, and you're gonna undermine their confidence,
and they will eventually leave because they will never feel welcome in that workplace.
Yes. And, unfortunately, on the flip side, there are times when
the employees that have been around might be sliding under
(09:23):
the radar while deflecting any
issues toward the new hire. Well, they didn't do this. Well, they didn't
do that. Versus as a leader, letting that new
hire take on their responsibilities and paying attention to
where the rest of your team might benefit from some new
onboarding. I've done that. I've gone through re onboarding
(09:44):
just because the organization was like, we've had a lot of changes. Let's bring
everybody back together. So I love that point. I think it's really
important. And my third is along the lines of
undermining. I really struggle when I hear a place to say,
well, you're gonna be trained by so and so
who might be in a similar role or one
(10:07):
that may be I hate to say well, one that might be paid
less. And they're like, well, they're gonna train you and just
answer to them. Meanwhile, finding out that this person has
no increase in their pay is still expected to uphold all their
responsibilities. And the reason I struggle with that approach is because you
are instantly building tension between people. Because now
(10:29):
this person that has been doing their job really well, as a
result, is asked to help train this new hire. They're
getting I'll just say it this way. There have been situations where people
that do that training know that this person was brought on in a similar
role with this more money than they make, and it creates
right out the gate a very, well, whatever. They like, they're
(10:52):
not gonna pay me more, so why do I care? And it just
gets icky. So if you are asking an employee to
help train a new hire, make sure that you are
recognizing that whether it's through any type of
acknowledgment, financial, flex time, something,
helping take off some of their current responsibilities. Because
(11:15):
you're just gonna wear people thin and you're really stellar
current employees, you risk losing them in the long
run. So just be very cognizant of who you're asking
to support the training and what might
be at stake in the process. Yeah. A 100%. And that's true. I mean, you're
getting clear, right, about how people are gonna be trained and you're getting
(11:37):
deliberate about who's gonna train them. And then you're also getting deliberate about, you
know, recognizing that extra set of knowledge and recognizing
that, you know, you are asking somebody to do something more. And, yeah,
that's a that's a great, great strategy.
For me, the number three thing that I have seen done
poorly, and we mentioned this last time a little bit about being
(11:59):
prepared for the person when they arrive. And we mentioned it
specifically in the context of just having the work items they need, but I
would say this a little bit differently this time around. On the flip side of
that, I have seen a lot of times people go in for an
onboarding experience that where they walk
in and and it isn't necessarily even that the stuff that they needed to do
(12:21):
their job wasn't ready for them, but it was that they didn't even know they
were coming. Oh. It was like you walk in. It's like, who are you? What
are you here for? I'm sorry. And it was like and I've been guilty
of it too. Like, I've had a really good onboarding program
built before that was really helpful to people, but I before made the mistake of,
say, not letting the receptionist know that somebody might because I didn't think they would
(12:44):
go up to that area of the building that day or not letting, you know,
somebody know that was sitting at the front desk. There's gonna be somebody new
that day. And so, fortunately, we had a good enough process so we could recover
from it. But if you can be get really proactive in thinking
about who's gonna be coming in and who they might interact
with, then, you know, you can get really clear with people about that
(13:05):
as well and make sure that, you know, make sure that they're welcome and it's
not a surprise when they walk in, if that makes sense. I've seen that happen
so many times. Yes. Well, I think if organizations if
you are someone that's feeling overwhelmed with the idea of onboarding or you
maybe know that there's an opportunity to improve,
I think that we can take the knowledge of our negative
(13:26):
experiences and then use that to leverage more positive ones for
people. And one way to kick start that would be reaching out to you.
Right, Tim? Exactly. We can definitely help with that. We it's actually and
I mentioned this last time. Of all the things that we do to help people,
2 of the things that we are most passionate about is hiring people right, but
then training and onboarding them right. And we love helping people with that.
(13:48):
And if listeners out there do want help getting clear about their onboarding
processes and how to do it, you know, we can be very easily
reached at our website, best culture solutions dot c, or my email
is tim@bestculturesolutions.ca.
Excellent. Well, thank you, Tim. I appreciate it. I feel like there's plenty more. And,
actually, I'd love to hear from people. If you've had a
(14:10):
really positive or kind of an
oddball onboarding or nonexistent onboarding, let us
know. Is it okay to say they could reach out and share that? Doesn't
certainly doesn't mean that Tim's gonna save for $30. We will talk
now. No. No. We just we just wanna hear what these
experiences are because it'll also give us more of an idea of
(14:33):
what ways we might be able to, yeah, just have conversation about it.
I'm sure you're not alone. So share those experiences. I'm curious what
the good and what the not so great have been for everybody else as
well. Absolutely. We love sharing and comparing notes with people, and and
we would welcome that from anybody. So email us. Absolutely.
Perfect. Well, thank you, Tim. It's been a pleasure as always. We'll talk again
(14:55):
soon. You later.
Welcome to the World at Work podcast where business leaders and job seekers
come together to create winning cultures and fulfilling careers. I'm your
host, Katie Courant, and I am here again with Tim Ditt, founder of
Best Culture Solutions. Tim, how is it going today?
It is awesome. How are you? I am well cold
and excited to continue our conversation about
(00:30):
the onboarding experiences we've had. I feel like we both could have
kept going with that last one. And so only
makes sense to jump back into it. Yeah. Everything. What
of the what yeah. Our last one was the what to do's. That
was good, and we could've gone forever. But the thing is that if
we had told everybody everything at at once, then there'd be no reason to come
(00:53):
back. But I think today, let's talk about, things that
we have seen that are not so good in our in our travels when it
comes to onboarding. Yes. And, unfortunately, I feel
like everybody has a story that something didn't go so great
for them. And the important piece is then recognizing,
okay. Well, what is the opportunity? So Yep. Hopefully,
(01:15):
with this conversation, you're not only able to
commiserate with us on some less than favorable onboarding
experiences that then also take away, okay. So
maybe this is how I could look at it. And if you really want to
dive into the things that Tim and I think are priority, make sure to check
the last episode out where we do talk about those positives of onboarding.
(01:38):
So, Tim, I'm gonna jump right in this time with my first one,
which is it's nonexistent. Oh, yeah. Good point. I
didn't think of that. Yeah. Because, unfortunately, I think in
times where things may be a
rushed hire, like, you might need a spot filled
urgently, somebody unexpectedly doesn't show up
(02:00):
or things you know, you just have a role you need to fill
immediately. There sometimes can be that assumption
that, well, it's not that difficult. You can just jump right in, and
we'll be here. Just ask questions, and we'll help you through it. So
my biggest one would be if you don't even really
set up anything called onboarding. There's nothing there. Yeah. See,
(02:22):
I I was gonna give people the benefit of the doubt of saying that there
was at least gonna be something because we were gonna talk
about things in the onboarding processes that do not work well. But
to your point, the onboarding process exists whether or not
people actually think about having one or not. And so it doesn't work very well
if you do not have anything. Anything. And and you might
(02:45):
I think part of it is the misunderstanding sometimes
that onboarding means that you're completing your new hire paperwork.
Onboarding meaning that it's when you come in, you show any
type of identification, you fill out your tax paperwork, or you
fill out your payroll paperwork, or you get your picture
for your ID. That is part of it. It
(03:08):
could be, but that's not the onboarding that is
going to get you to retain really
excellent employees. That's just part of the technical side.
So I think my concern is helping people understand
that it's not just a paperwork day, and then you hand over the badge and
say, well, have a great time. Good luck. Yeah. They're vicious out
(03:30):
there. Yeah. You know, I was gonna give people benefit
of the doubt and say what at least you Canadian versus US thing. Am I
being a little negative? No. You're right.
It it you'd be surprised. Like, it happens a lot
everywhere. It happens a lot. So I for instance, where I
live, you know, there's a tendency for a lot of people to think that
(03:51):
everything had to be done yesterday. Because a lot of times it did. And so
they rush people through these things and just put them in and they don't it
is very common here. So my number one is also
very common here for the same reasons, and it's common
everywhere. In the last episode, we talked a little bit about
communicating purpose. Right. And why we are not just, you know, here's
(04:13):
a bunch of rules. So the number one thing, right, that I have seen that
makes for poor onboarding process is people just being
thrown a binder or a book of rules. Right? And saying, here
are our policies. Read them. And make no mistake, you
know, your onboarding process, is it absolutely an
important time to communicate your policies and your
(04:35):
and and your process? Yes. As a matter of fact, that's when you have to
do that, and you should do that. But if that's all you're doing,
you're not providing any context around purpose, or if you're not providing any
context around why we do this or what our values are, is is here's our
binder of policies. Read them. Do not do that. It will not stick with
people. And most importantly, when people read
(04:57):
that, they're not going to be your brand. They're
just gonna be following a bunch of rules. They're not gonna learn about what it
is that you want your brand to be. And so they
cannot embody when they follow those rules, you want them
to embody your brand in so doing. If you don't tell
people what the purpose or the brand is, it will not matter.
(05:19):
And so if you just throw a binder of rules at people, it will not
work. And to follow that, my number 2, if you
give them a binder that explains what their
role does or what equipment is, it's probably not going to
work. My you know, it's very similar in that binder mindset, and
it's remembering my own experience when I was moving
(05:40):
into a sales role. And one of the leaders
sat with me for an hour and flipped through a I don't even
know how many pages, binder of all the different equipment.
And he he'd been with the company. I mean, he was one
of the original and he had been with the
company for many, many years, and he
(06:02):
knew it inside and out. And I'm sitting there
as he pay turned page after page thinking, I have so many
questions. First of all, can I see it in real life? Can I see
what you're talking about? And part of that is the different learning styles, and that's
a whole other conversation. But Sure. Spending an hour flipping
page by page, just pointing out this is this is this.
(06:25):
This is this. This is this. It's just not gonna stick. It's not an
effective way. Having more conversation, having people
interacting with different pieces, I think that would have gone much further
than just sitting with a binder and saying, here you go
now. Any questions? Because let me tell you, there
were so many, and yet I also had none because I didn't even know where
(06:47):
to begin. So, yeah, a binder can be a slippery
slope. Is it great to have as a resource? For sure. I think
whether it's the policies and procedures, any
type of manual is helpful, digital print, but that cannot
be your only resource. And it changes and
needs updates. So please make sure that you're also updating your
(07:10):
materials for others when your organization might make a
change. That's a big one. 100%. Okay. So my second one
is not knowing when to let go, and here's what I mean by that. We
talked last time about how sometimes onboarding, right,
there's more to it than just use your day, and are we doing check ins
and all that stuff? And I'm a believer that you do need to do, like,
(07:30):
your company onboarding or that high level stuff, and then also some
opportunity to train or get onboarded in the in the actual
position and what you have to do and learn those tools. But I have
seen onboarding processes that go on for 6, 7, 8 months and just do not
know when to let go. Because people will say, oh, well, you
haven't seen this situation yet. It's like a really
(07:52):
specific set of circumstances, and it's like, look. At
some point, even if you haven't seen that circumstance yet, there's a high level
process. There's a high level thought that you want them
to walk through, and that is not gonna change. And so what
you need to do is you need to give people
opportunity to learn your processes, learn your tools, learn
(08:15):
that, and then be left to use them. Even if they haven't been able to
use them in every single situation
when
you hold on to people so long? I've I've seen people that have had to
shadow somebody for, like, 6 or 7 months in an entry level role just
until somebody felt they were ready, which is not necessarily
(08:37):
true. When you do that to people, you actually completely undermine
their confidence. And so it should be very simple. Make a list and
inventory of all the tools and processes that they need to know for that specific
job, show them how to do it, then let them do
it themselves once or twice while you watch, and then let them
go. Right? And let them use the tools and let them play in the
(09:00):
sandbox because they're not gonna build their confidence if they spend 6 or 7 months
having to be watched everything that they do. And so no one to let go
or else nobody's going to grow in the role, and you're gonna undermine their confidence,
and they will eventually leave because they will never feel welcome in that workplace.
Yes. And, unfortunately, on the flip side, there are times when
the employees that have been around might be sliding under
(09:23):
the radar while deflecting any
issues toward the new hire. Well, they didn't do this. Well, they didn't
do that. Versus as a leader, letting that new
hire take on their responsibilities and paying attention to
where the rest of your team might benefit from some new
onboarding. I've done that. I've gone through re onboarding
(09:44):
just because the organization was like, we've had a lot of changes. Let's bring
everybody back together. So I love that point. I think it's really
important. And my third is along the lines of
undermining. I really struggle when I hear a place to say,
well, you're gonna be trained by so and so
who might be in a similar role or one
(10:07):
that may be I hate to say well, one that might be paid
less. And they're like, well, they're gonna train you and just
answer to them. Meanwhile, finding out that this person has
no increase in their pay is still expected to uphold all their
responsibilities. And the reason I struggle with that approach is because you
are instantly building tension between people. Because now
(10:29):
this person that has been doing their job really well, as a
result, is asked to help train this new hire. They're
getting I'll just say it this way. There have been situations where people
that do that training know that this person was brought on in a similar
role with this more money than they make, and it creates
right out the gate a very, well, whatever. They like, they're
(10:52):
not gonna pay me more, so why do I care? And it just
gets icky. So if you are asking an employee to
help train a new hire, make sure that you are
recognizing that whether it's through any type of
acknowledgment, financial, flex time, something,
helping take off some of their current responsibilities. Because
(11:15):
you're just gonna wear people thin and you're really stellar
current employees, you risk losing them in the long
run. So just be very cognizant of who you're asking
to support the training and what might
be at stake in the process. Yeah. A 100%. And that's true. I mean, you're
getting clear, right, about how people are gonna be trained and you're getting
(11:37):
deliberate about who's gonna train them. And then you're also getting deliberate about, you
know, recognizing that extra set of knowledge and recognizing
that, you know, you are asking somebody to do something more. And, yeah,
that's a that's a great, great strategy.
For me, the number three thing that I have seen done
poorly, and we mentioned this last time a little bit about being
(11:59):
prepared for the person when they arrive. And we mentioned it
specifically in the context of just having the work items they need, but I
would say this a little bit differently this time around. On the flip side of
that, I have seen a lot of times people go in for an
onboarding experience that where they walk
in and and it isn't necessarily even that the stuff that they needed to do
(12:21):
their job wasn't ready for them, but it was that they didn't even know they
were coming. Oh. It was like you walk in. It's like, who are you? What
are you here for? I'm sorry. And it was like and I've been guilty
of it too. Like, I've had a really good onboarding program
built before that was really helpful to people, but I before made the mistake of,
say, not letting the receptionist know that somebody might because I didn't think they would
(12:44):
go up to that area of the building that day or not letting, you know,
somebody know that was sitting at the front desk. There's gonna be somebody new
that day. And so, fortunately, we had a good enough process so we could recover
from it. But if you can be get really proactive in thinking
about who's gonna be coming in and who they might interact
with, then, you know, you can get really clear with people about that
(13:05):
as well and make sure that, you know, make sure that they're welcome and it's
not a surprise when they walk in, if that makes sense. I've seen that happen
so many times. Yes. Well, I think if organizations if
you are someone that's feeling overwhelmed with the idea of onboarding or you
maybe know that there's an opportunity to improve,
I think that we can take the knowledge of our negative
(13:26):
experiences and then use that to leverage more positive ones for
people. And one way to kick start that would be reaching out to you.
Right, Tim? Exactly. We can definitely help with that. We it's actually and
I mentioned this last time. Of all the things that we do to help people,
2 of the things that we are most passionate about is hiring people right, but
then training and onboarding them right. And we love helping people with that.
(13:48):
And if listeners out there do want help getting clear about their onboarding
processes and how to do it, you know, we can be very easily
reached at our website, best culture solutions dot c, or my email
is tim@bestculturesolutions.ca.
Excellent. Well, thank you, Tim. I appreciate it. I feel like there's plenty more. And,
actually, I'd love to hear from people. If you've had a
(14:10):
really positive or kind of an
oddball onboarding or nonexistent onboarding, let us
know. Is it okay to say they could reach out and share that? Doesn't
certainly doesn't mean that Tim's gonna save for $30. We will talk
now. No. No. We just we just wanna hear what these
experiences are because it'll also give us more of an idea of
(14:33):
what ways we might be able to, yeah, just have conversation about it.
I'm sure you're not alone. So share those experiences. I'm curious what
the good and what the not so great have been for everybody else as
well. Absolutely. We love sharing and comparing notes with people, and and
we would welcome that from anybody. So email us. Absolutely.
Perfect. Well, thank you, Tim. It's been a pleasure as always. We'll talk again
(14:55):
soon. You later.
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