May 22, 2024 • 35 mins
Woman's Political Future - An Address by Frances E. W. Harper to the Chicago World's Fair, 20 May 1893. In which Harper champions morality, civil rights, and civic duty in Jim Crow America.
Featuring Chole Porche, Ph.D. candidate in the Corcoran Department of History at the University of Virginia.
Your Most Obedient & Humble Servant is a production of R2 Studios, part of the Roy Rosenzweig Center for History and New Media at George Mason University.
Find the official transcript here.
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Episode Transcript
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Kathryn Gehred (00:04):
Hello, and welcome to Your Most Obedient
and Humble Servant. This is aWomen's History podcast where we
feature 18th and early 19thcentury women's letters that
don't get as much attention aswe think they should. I'm your
host, Kathryn Gehred. Thisepisode is part of our season on
the wit. And today I am thrilledto be talking with Chloe Porche.
(00:24):
Chloe is a PhD candidate in theCorcoran Department of History
at the University of Virginia.She's doing research on 19th
century black activism. Andwhat's that? Did I say that I
say 19th century black activismin my 18th and early 19th
century podcast? Yes, I did. AsI've said in the past, it's my
podcast, I'm going to do what Iwant. Honestly, I think you're
(00:47):
going to love what Chloe has tosay. And I think that you'll be
very interested in this subject.So first of all, hello, Chloe.
Chloe Porche (00:53):
Oh, it's so lovely to be here. I'm very excited.
Kathryn Gehred (00:56):
Thank you so much for being on the show. I'm
really happy to talk to you.
Chloe Porche (00:59):
Oh yeah, typically, thanks for having me.
This is a nerd dream. You know,like, my own work cool.
Kathryn Gehred (01:08):
Speaking of nerdy, I met Chloe at a
PowerPoint party. Oh, no, I metyou earlier. But yeah, we
connected at a PowerPoint partywhere we each had to give a talk
on a subject and Chloe gave afascinating talk on her thesis,
and I gave an extremely bizarretalk about a nerdy fandom that
(01:28):
I'm in. And so it's a miraclethat she agreed to come on the
show.
Chloe Porche (01:32):
But also your PowerPoint stuck with me. I
loved it. And I was justthinking about the other day, I
was like, Man, that was a reallygood meme, she explained and
like.
Kathryn Gehred (01:42):
Well, thank you so much. Alright, so to actually
get into the subject matter ofepisodes, so first of all,
normally we do 18th centuryletters. And this is actually
going to be a speech from 1893.Yes, it is a fabulous speech.
And to sort of set up what we'regoing to be talking about, can
(02:02):
you tell me a little bit aboutyour dissertation called
Slavery’s Ghost and the Spiritof Resistance: Black Women Look
back on Emancipation in the Ageof Jim Crow, 1865-1925. So tell
me about it.
Chloe Porche (02:16):
My dissertation, very broadly looks at how black
women in the 1890s Around theturn of the 20th century, how
they use their memory ofemancipation and reconstruction,
to advocate for both women'srights and black rights at the
turn of the 20th century. It'svery much a product on memory
studies, but also on theintellectual history of
(02:40):
emancipation and intellect.History is just a fancy way of
saying we like to trace theideas of people, the ideas and
thoughts of people I love. Thework gets really exciting. I get
to look at a lot of really coolwomen that I did not know about,
and it took me writing adissertation in order to find
them. And I was like, wait aminute, these women are
incredible. Why don't morepeople know about them. So
(03:00):
that's also another reason whyI'm very excited to be on this
podcast because it's the type ofpodcast that gives space for
really cool women.
Kathryn Gehred (03:07):
So this particular speech is by a woman
named Francis ew Harper,introduce her to us.
Chloe Porche (03:14):
She's from Baltimore, Maryland. She is
quite frankly, so hard for me tosum up because of her sheer
badassery. But I will do my bestto try to keep it short and
interesting. She was born in1825 in Baltimore, Maryland,
which at the time was a slavestate. However, she was born to
(03:36):
a free family. The names arePanther actually unknown. We
don't know who her parents were,because they died when she was
three years old. And then heraunt and uncle William Watkins,
Jr. and Henrietta RussellWatkins, kind of adopted her and
register as their own alongsidetheir son named after his
father. What I think is reallyneat about how she was raised in
(03:56):
her family is that the Watkinsfamily is considered a legacy
activist family, WilliamWatkins, Jr, who I'm going to
refer to as Watkins Jr. was areally, really, really prominent
activist in the antebellum era.Watkins Jr. and his wife,
Henrietta Russell Watkins, werea part of the elite black middle
(04:18):
class burgeoning in Baltimore,Maryland, Baltimore, Maryland.
At this time, the antebellum erahad the largest free black
population, and all throughoutmajor cities like Baltimore,
Philadelphia and New York, verysmall, but still growing class
of free black elites. And theywere primarily focused on
activism so they were involvedin abolitionist the abolitionist
(04:40):
movement and the anti slaverymovement. Watkins Jr. actually
started an Academy for Youngblack folks to be educated. It
was called the Watkins Academyfor Negro youth. And this is
actually where Francis Harperwas educated. What's really
unique about Watkins Jr, is thathe received a classical
education, and he was really,really, really passionate about
(05:03):
ending slavery and gainingrights for more African
Americans in a moment when blackfolks didn't really have
citizenship. All of that to saythat this had a serious impact
on shaping and forming the ideasof Francis Ellen Watkins Harper.
Kathryn Gehred (05:19):
It's interesting to talk about the fact that
there is in early 1800s, a freeblack elite in someplace like
Baltimore. Yeah, you mentionedthat your dissertation is in a
large part about memory, thewhole loss cause myth that is so
drilled in everyone's heads kindof erases what was a very real
history of Yes, free blackcities. And even as you say,
(05:39):
free black elite communities.Yeah, in even in slave states,
the difference between historyand memory in some ways when
memory is being warped bycertain historical narratives.
But then when you actually lookat the actual documents and
actual histories, there werefree people there, there were
they were a elite groups, it'ssuper cool that this is an
example of somebody who came outof that particular background.
Chloe Porche (06:01):
Yeah. And also, thank you, you kind of reminded
me of something that once I gotused to I kind of forget, but
when I was first studying theantebellum era, and like the
Revolutionary era, at thebeginning of my program, I
didn't really realize and itwasn't commonly taught. And this
is very true, I think across alot of different types of
curriculum about that there waslike a free black population
(06:23):
that existed between like 18 11865, or 60. Yeah, we just aren't
taught that at all. Nor are wetaught that there was what we
call an elite black community,and that it was kind of in some
regards thriving in certaincities. There was also obviously
a lot of violence and thingsthat were going on that were
kind of working against thiscommunity. But it's really neat
(06:45):
to like learn that and thatthere was these thriving
intellectual centers of blackAmericans. I do want to also say
that when you hear scholars say,elite, black communities, and
they're referring to thosecommunities during the
antebellum era, US defining theblack community as elite is
going to be different than whatwe might think of in terms of
wealth, that has to do withwealth, it has more to do with
(07:08):
access to education, and accessto certain spaces. It's really
more about how well educatedthey were their ability to be
economically self sufficient,and their access to elite whites
who maybe are also involved inabolitionist circles or anti
slavery circles.
Kathryn Gehred (07:25):
Yeah, I think that's a great distinction to
make. It's not imagining free bya person like owning a
plantation looking like ThomasJefferson, like that's exactly,
Chloe Porche (07:32):
exactly. It's unfortunately not Bridgerton.
Although I loved Bridgerton Notgonna lie.
Kathryn Gehred (07:42):
As a fun fantasy. Yes, exactly.
Chloe Porche (07:46):
But yeah, so my work throughout the 19th century
really does focus on blackelites. We can also say, black
middle class, and that's almostinterchanging with the black
middle class and black elites.So that might be a helpful
determiner in saying, equatingthe wealth with elite status. If
you're black middle class in the18th century, that's a big deal.
You do have money, not to samelevels like Thomas Jefferson,
(08:09):
but you have enough money to beself sufficient, and you are
well educated. I think there'salso a misnomer about what does
a black intellect look like? Andthis speech will help you kind
of see that because you're like,Dang girl said, what? And that's
what I found throughout my work.I keep being so excited and
(08:32):
pleasantly surprised by howincredibly thoughtful these
people were. And we're just notgiven that narrative. And so
it's really cool to have thatfalse narrative dispelled.
Kathryn Gehred (08:43):
Yeah, by facts in history, like, exactly. So I
feel like I took you off on atangent there. But was there
anything else you wanted to setup about Francis?
Chloe Porche (08:53):
Yeah, the only thing that I would add to
Francis is that she was manythings. But she was most known
for being an undergroundrailroad operative. She was a
prolific poet. That's just howshe got her start as publishing
poetry. She was also a creativewriter and an essayist, and a
lecturer. Now, what's reallyfascinating about her being a
(09:16):
lecturer is that she made aliving off of lecturing, which
is kind of unheard of, forwomen, but for women, yeah,
especially for black women. Yes,she made a living off of that.
And she's also considered like aradical political and social
activist all throughout the 19thcentury. So she was born in
1825. She died in 1911. Theother thing that think many
(09:36):
people might know her for is shepublished a novel in ancient
India two year before the speechthat we're going to read. And
the novel is called Iola Leroy.And it's just a really great
novel. She centers on themorality of the person and the
importance of a person'smorality. And that connection to
Christianity in particular,which is a theme you see
(09:58):
throughout most of her work herprowess as a speaker, public
speaker, I think is alsosomething that I really want to
emphasize because again, shemade a living off of being a
lecturer. That's incredible, asa woman as much as a black
woman.
Kathryn Gehred (10:11):
That's a good introduction, just to sort of
zone in on exactly what'shappening at the time that she
gave this address. So at thispoint, you said she's published
a book that was fairly wellreceived the year before this.
So she's sort of known as apublic figure and probably as a
poet at this point.
Chloe Porche (10:27):
She at this point, had a huge reputation. People
really wanted to hear her speak.She was one of the few women to
speak at what we call anemancipation celebration or
freedom celebration, likeJuneteenth. On August 1, 1834,
the British Empire abolishedslavery in the West Indies,
there's a big deal, West Indies,excuse me, which was a big deal.
(10:49):
And African Americans use thatday to commemorate another
marking of freedom. Every year,August 1, I had these big
Emancipation Day celebrations.And in 1865, she spoke at one
and very, very, very few women,black women spoke at these
celebrations. So she was one whowill actually allow to speak,
she was very well known at thispoint.
Kathryn Gehred (11:11):
What's going on politically at this time,
Chloe Porche (11:13):
The major things to know about this particular
historical moment is that so thespeech was made in 1893.
Reconstruction ended in 1877.After Reconstruction ended, you
have the Jim Crow era starting.Reconstruction was the legal
(11:33):
social and political changesthat occurred following the
American Civil War. And thesechanges occurred in an attempt
to reintegrate the south backinto the Union. The main thing
to note about reconstruction arethe passage of three amendments,
we call them the Reconstructionamendments. That's the 13th 14th
and 15th. Amendment. The 13thamendment abolished slavery, the
(11:56):
14th Amendment granted AfricanAmericans, what we call
birthright citizenship. Andwhere we get that idea, if
you're born in the UnitedStates, you are an American
citizen. And the 15th Amendmentgranted black men the right to
vote, a bunch of black men wereelected into office, federal,
state and local office. Andthat's a huge deal. We just went
(12:16):
from black folks beingpredominantly enslaved, 4
million being enslaved, to allthose people being freed. And
then some of these people beingelected into office and wielding
great political power. Whenreconstruction ended in 1877, we
see a lot of those gains beingpulled back and a lot of
regression occurring. And that'swhen we see the Jim Crow era
(12:38):
starting. We often hear Jim Crowlaws, or Jim Crow south is a
phrase we might often hear. Andthis was the extra legal ways
that white southerners tried todisenfranchise black Americans,
we started to see kind of wavesof violence occurring since the
start of the Ku Klux Klan, andother white supremacist domestic
(13:01):
terror groups like the whiteknights surfacing. This is
happening in the late 1870s,early 1880s. The other thing I
think, is important to noteabout this moment, the specific
backlash that Harper and blackwomen in particular are
experiencing is that in the1880s, and 1890s, the way that
(13:22):
people had constructed genderroles were changing rapidly.
There were so many changesoccurring throughout society,
the Victorian standards ofmanhood and womanhood, were much
less persuasive and increasinglydifficult to achieve. And so you
get both women and men activelyparticipating in the process of
(13:43):
trying to reform or redefinegender roles. In reforming
gender roles, both manhood andwomanhood, one of the things I
started to occur is whiteintellectuals, were
intentionally trying to createnew ideologies that specifically
target African Americans to kindof further justify taking away
(14:04):
black men's rights, votingrights, and to further justify
the violence that was occurringto black communities all
throughout the South and theNorth as well in the West, but
you get there was like a wave ofarticles that were published
that were specifically targetingnot just black Americans, but
black women in particular.
Kathryn Gehred (14:22):
Where did she give the speech?
Chloe Porche (14:24):
The address was given at the Chicago World's
Fair, which is also called theWorld's Columbian exhibition.
This event in and of itself, Ithink, is quite fascinating. The
Devil in the White City. Yes,yes. Exactly. The fair itself
was like an internationalexhibit designed specifically to
(14:45):
commemorate American progress.The participation of non white
Americans was severelyrestricted and was figuratively
and quite literally marginalizedin terms of how the event was
even set up. And it'sspecifically sought to celebrate
the 400th anniversary ofChristopher Columbus's discovery
(15:06):
of the Americas. And the lastthing that I'll add about this
particular fare is that withthis theme of celebrating
Columbus's discovery of America,the organizers specifically
intended to illustrate theprogress of civilization in the
new world. And to contrast thatwith the progress and the
(15:27):
barbarism, quote, unquote, ofthe old world. So the New World
for them was white Anglo Saxonsocieties and the old world was
indigenous populations. At anyone part of the African diaspora
are of African descent, you seethat in literally them creating
what they call the White City,they actually wanted to call it
the White City to uphold whiteracial ideation. And then they
(15:49):
had the Midway Palisades on theside as kind of zoo exhibitions
to demonstrate the barbarism ofthe quote unquote, Old World. So
this is the context that Frenchtower was making the speech in.
So they have the big white city.And then they had the women's
building which is tacked on tothe margins, again, of the big
white city that was supposed todisplay male white male
(16:12):
dominance, not even we don'twant women to like, not the
women, please no. And so FrancisHarper and five other black
women were invited to speak,sort of invited to speak, they
kind of had to push their way into speak in the women's
building. There was like severaldays where women were speaking
in the women's building, andthey were collectively called
(16:35):
the world's Congress ofrepresentative women, women from
all across the world, wereactually invited to come speak.
It was a group of white womenwho were in charge of selecting
which women were coming tospeak, though six black women
they chose, they chose thembecause they viewed these women
as quote, unquote, safe. Theyweren't gonna say anything that
was gonna rile anyone'sfeathers. They were considered
(16:59):
respectable, all these things.Just to reiterate, this was
given on an internationalinterracial platform. This is a
mixed audience. She's sayingthis to mostly women, but also a
mixed or diverse audience. Soit's a big deal.
Kathryn Gehred (17:17):
And let's dive in.
Chloe Porche (17:21):
A speech given by Francis Ellen Watkins Harper in
1893, and it's titled Women'sPolitical Future. "If before sin
had cast its deepest shadows orsorrow had distilled its
bitterest tears, it was truethat it was not good for man to
be alone, it is no less true,since the shadows have deepened
(17:43):
and life’s sorrows haveincreased, that the world has
need of all the spiritual aidthat woman can give for the
social advancement and moraldevelopment of the human race.
The tendency of the present age,with its restlessness, religious
upheavals, failures, blunders,and crimes is toward broader
(18:05):
freedom, an increase ofknowledge, the emancipation of
thought, and a recognition ofthe brotherhood of man; in this
movement woman, as the companionof man, must be a sharer. So
close is the bond between manand woman that you can not raise
one without lifting the other.The world can not move without
(18:28):
woman’s sharing in the movement,and to help give a right impetus
to that movement is a woman’shighest privilege. Not the
opportunity of discovering newworlds, but that of filling this
old world with fairer and higheraims than the greed of gold and
the lust of power, is hers.Through weary, wasting years men
(18:51):
have destroyed, dashed inpieces, and overthrown, but
to-day we stand on the thresholdof woman’s era, and woman’s work
is grandly constructive. As thesaffron tints and crimson
flushes of morn herald thecoming day, so the social and
political advancement whichwoman has already gained bears
(19:13):
the promise of the rising of thefull-orbed sun of emancipation.
The result will be not to makehome less happy, but society
more holy (19:22):
yet I do not think the mere extension of the ballot
a panacea for all the ills ofour national life. What we need
to-day is not simply morevoters, but better voters.
To-day there are red-handed menin our republic, who walk
unwhipped of justice, who richlydeserve to exchange the ballot
(19:45):
of the freeman for the wristletsof the felon; brutal and
cowardly men, who torture, burn,and lynch their fellow-men, men
whose defenselessness should betheir best defense and their
weakness an ensign ofprotection. More than the
changing of institutions we needthe development of a national
(20:07):
conscience, and the upbuildingof national character. Men may
boast of the aristocracy ofblood, may glory in the
aristocracy of wealthy, butthere is one aristocracy which
must never outrank them all, andthat is the aristocracy of
character; and it is the womenof a country who help to mold
(20:29):
its character, and to influenceif not determine its destiny;
and in the political future ofour nation woman will not have
done what she could if she doesnot endeavor to have our
republic stand foremost amongthe nations of the earth,
wearing sobriety as a crown andrighteousness as a garment and a
(20:51):
girdle. In coming into herpolitical estate woman will find
a mass of illiteracy to bedispelled. If knowledge is
power, ignorance is also power.The power that educates
wickedness may manipulate anddash against the pillars of any
state when they are underminedand honeycombed by injustice. I
(21:13):
envy neither the heart nor thehead of any legislator who has
been born to an inheritance ofprivileges, who has behind him
ages of education, dominion,civilization, and Christianity,
if he stands opposed to thepassage of a national education
bill, whose purpose is to secureeducation to the children of
(21:36):
those who were born under theshadow of institutions that made
it a crime to read. To-day womenhold in their hands influence
and opportunity, and with thesethey have already opened doors
which have been closed toothers. By opening doors of
labor woman has become a rivalclaimant for at least some of
(21:59):
the wealth monopolized by herstronger brother. In the home
she is the priestess, in societythe queen, in literature she is
a power, in legislative hallslaw-makers have responded to her
appeals, and for her sake havehumanized and liberalized their
laws. The press has felt theimpress of her hand. In the pews
(22:22):
of the church she constitutesthe majority: the pulpit has
welcomed her, and in the schoolshe has the blessed privilege of
teaching children and youth. Toher is apparently coming the
added responsibility ofpolitical power; and what she
now possesses should only be themeans of preparing her to use
(22:45):
the coming power for the gloryof God and the good of mankind;
for power without righteousnessis one of the most dangerous
forces in the world. Politicallife in our country has plowed
in muddy channels, and needs theinfusion of clearer and cleaner
waters. I am not sure that womenare naturally so much better
(23:08):
than men that they will clearthe stream by the virtue of
their womanhood (23:12):
it is not through sex but through
character that the bestinfluence of women upon the life
of the nation must be exerted. I do not believe in unrestricted
and universal suffrage foreither men or women. I believe
in moral and educational tests.I do not believe that the most
(23:34):
ignorant and brutal man isbetter prepared to add value to
the strength and durability ofthe government than the most
cultured, upright, andintelligent woman. I do not
think that willful ignoranceshould swamp earnest
intelligence at the ballet-box,nor that educated wickedness,
(23:55):
violence, and fraud shouldcancel the votes of honest men.
The unsteady hands of a drunkardcan not cast the ballot of a
freeman. The hands of lynchersare too red with blood to
determine the politicalcharacter of the government for
even four short years. Theballot in the hands of woman
(24:17):
means power added to influence.How well she will use that power
I cannot foretell. More than theincrease of wealth, the power of
armies, and the strength offleets is the need of good
homes, of good fathers, and goodmothers. O women of America!
Into your hands God has pressedone of the sublimest
(24:39):
opportunities that ever cameinto the hands of the women of
any race or people. It is yoursto create a healthy public
sentiment; to demand justice,simple justice, as the right of
every race to brand witheverlasting infamy the lawless
and brutal cowardice thatlynches, burns, and tortures
(25:01):
your own countrymen. To grapplewith the evils which threaten to
undermine the strength of thenation and to lay magazines of
powder under the cribs of futuregenerations is no child’s play.
Let the hearts of the women ofthe world respond to the song of
the herald angels of peace onearth and good will to men. Let
(25:25):
them throb as one heart unifiedby the grand and holy purpose of
uplifting the human race, andhumanity will breathe freer, and
the world grow brighter. Withsuch a purpose Eden would spring
up in our path, and Paradisewill be around our way."
Kathryn Gehred (25:46):
I think that was a very rousing speech,
particularly thinking of this inthe halls of the White City to
break up all the points that shemakes. So what drew you to this
speech?
Chloe Porche (25:55):
This speech, it was like all six speeches, the
women who spoke that religiousdrew me, and I remember reading
them through for the first time,and being really shocked to hear
what they're saying, what arethey responding to? What are
they referring to, but also itwas just the language about
humanity, and about everyonebeing connected and being one. I
saw it across all six speeches.And I was like, Whoa, what's
(26:18):
going on here? This is veryinteresting, because this is
kind of like one of the firsttimes not the first time but one
of the first times you're reallyseeing on a public stage people
talking about talking abouthuman rights. What really drew
me to this was just the power ofthe language, and even how much
some of the things that wasbeing said in her speech, and
other other woman speeches stillresonate today.
Kathryn Gehred (26:40):
One of the things that struck me about it
reading it is, like you talkedabout how it speaks to sort of
the modern age, I think therestill kind of is this discussion
of whether in feminism ofwhether being a woman just makes
you naturally morally better.And when I read the beginning of
this speech, I was like, Oh, itseems like she's more of the
like women are in the homes,making everything better, and
(27:00):
giving women political powerwill just magically make
everything good. But then shespecifically says that, that she
says, I'm not sure that womenare naturally so much better
than men that they will clearthe stream by the virtue of
their womanhood. And I'm like,Yes, exactly. But what she's
saying is that women's role isto instill the morality, which
is something that was definitelytrue at that time. And that
(27:21):
started back in the 1800s, ofthe woman's places to sort of
create this moral backbone. AndI think that with her argument
of taking political activity,taking that away from race or
gender and making what shethinks in ideal world would be
as if it comes from your moralstrength. And what she's
pointing out is that these menwho are out there lynching other
people should not have the votedo not have the moral qualities
(27:42):
that is demanded. I think thatis a great way to address what
you're talking about, of a womanbeing political is not feminine
enough things like that. She'ssaying, No, we're gonna we're
gonna take all that away, andwe're going to talk about
morality. I thought that wasbrilliantly done.
Chloe Porche (27:56):
Yeah, I agree. When I first read this through
to that line stuck out to methat she's saying that she
doesn't think that women aremore naturally naturally better
that they will clear the stream.But she does say we'll clean it
clean up a little bit. But notit won't clear it but it will
clean up a little bit. And Ithought that was fascinating cuz
(28:16):
she she takes some digs at men.And it's great. Like in the
beginning, I was so tickled likedamn, she came on at them to
said, not the opportunity ofdiscovering new worlds, but that
of feeling old world was fair,in higher aims than the greed of
gold and the lust of power.Women are going to be the ones
who are trying to feel the oldworld was fair and higher aims.
(28:38):
We're not out here trying tocolonize the spaces and lining
our pockets with gold. She'slike, We're better than that.
And I just was so tickledbecause she follows that with
through weary wasting years, menhave destroyed dads and pieces
and overthrown. And then sheintroduces this incredible thing
that becomes a phrase, she says,but today we stand on the
(28:59):
threshold of a woman's era, andwomen's work is grandly constructive,
Kathryn Gehred (29:03):
The part where she says I envy neither the
heart or the head of anylegislator who has been born to
an inheritance of privileges,who has behind them ages of
education, Dominion,civilization and Christianity if
he stands opposed to the passageof a national education bill. I
think that's a point that whitepeople don't get a lot. I mean,
she's talking about privilege,but she's like, I don't care if
you have this privilege. I don'twant that if you don't have the
(29:25):
moral understanding orcharacter. If you if you are so
morally bankrupt, that you wouldoppose the passage of an
education bill, then I don'twant to be you that was just
beautifully put. I feel likethat is a sentiment that could
easily again be made today.
Chloe Porche (29:37):
Yes, Black woman at this moment are also
contributing to this first waveof feminism and many of the
women that are in my work, likethis woman named Anna Julia
Cooper are considered the motherof black feminist thought and
Francis Harper is definitelypart of that kind of cadre of
women are they're making thisinsight on a public stage about
(29:57):
the fact that black men are justwanting to play the roles, white
men, and some white women areoften the same thing. And
because black women are bothwomen, and they are also part of
the black race, thatintersectionality that crossing
of those two intersectionsforces them to recognize
something that their malecounterparts and their white
(30:17):
counterparts don't always recordor would take more for them to
recognize. If you know, do youknow Audre Lord?
Kathryn Gehred (30:24):
She's on my wall.
Chloe Porche (30:29):
Phenomenal. So Audre Lord has this great little
quote called the Masters Tools.We're not dismantle the Masters
House branches, Harper andultimately, at this moment are
foreshadowing that little maximof like, we don't want to be the
master. And the tools of themaster has given us don't allow
us to dismantle the house. We'retrying to say this is all really
(30:49):
messed up. And we need to shiftthe conversation to morality,
y'all. It's not raised. It's notsex. It's not class, its
character, its morality, we needto focus on morality a bit more.
Once I dug more into thespeeches really drew me to what
she was saying. And you see thatacross a lot of her work.
Kathryn Gehred (31:06):
That sort of ties into I want to mention
where she says that she is notfor universal suffrage, that she
wants there to be moral andeducational tests, which at a
moment when these tests arebeing used 100% to
disenfranchise black voters inthe South. That's an interesting
statement.
Chloe Porche (31:22):
She's looking at how people have been voting, the
people who are voting, she'slooking at how black men are
being systematicallydisenfranchised, just after they
were just in franchised. Andshe's seeing at this moment to
1892, the year before a womannamed Ida B. Wells, who's
another incredible badass blackfemale activists that is so so
(31:43):
cool and kicked out on forever,and I won't, but I'd be well
known for starting the antilynching campaign, and blue that
onto a kind of a national andinternational stage, like what
is lynching? Why is it startingnow? Like what? What's really
behind it? Francis Harper iskeyed into this, this
conversation that's likehappening in a really large
(32:04):
stage for the first time aboutlynching and saying that it's
white men are lynching black menand black women in these really
horrific, violent ways. Andthese people allowed to vote. So
she's like clocking that she'ssaying that she's saying this is
not right. So for her, if youare morally corrupt, you should
not have this incredible power,this political power that should
(32:28):
be taken from you. Yeah,
Kathryn Gehred (32:29):
That makes a lot of sense. The context of giving
women the vote was alreadyshaking everything up so much
that she sort of seeing thisless as like, how are white
people wouldn't use this todisenfranchise people and more
of a lens of well, if we'regoing to enfranchise
theoretically, who should weenfranchise? And her answer is
people who have the characterand moral capacity.
Chloe Porche (32:46):
The main thing is that those last few paragraphs I
think are so love, which is Owomen of America, into your
hands, God has pressed one ofthe sublime miss opportunities
that has ever come into thehands of women of any race or
people. It is your job to createa healthy public sentiment to
demand justice, simple justiceas the right of every race to
(33:07):
brand with everlasting infamy,the lawless and brutal cowardice
that Lynch's burned and torturesyour own countrymen." So right
there, she's really been like,Look, you guys it is in your
hands as a moral arbiters of theworld to ensure that this
violence in this brutalcowardice stops, it's our job as
women it is our reading, we needto stop this and when we get the
(33:29):
vote, we can use that power.This is at a time when lynching
itself was people in the Northwere like that's kind of gross,
maybe we shouldn't do that'shorrible. That's pretty
horrendous. But you know, it'syou know, kitschy little
southern thing is kind of how alot of northerners and even
black northerners and someblacks others had even viewed
(33:50):
it. And it wasn't until IW Wellshad to come on the scene and
really demonstrate to peoplewhat was actually happening with
punching, that that shifted. Sothe fact that Harper is saying
this, at this speech is a bigdeal as well.
Kathryn Gehred (34:06):
Thank you so much for coming on the show. Chloe
Chloe Porche (34:08):
Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast
and enjoy.
Kathryn Gehred (34:13):
Oh, thank you. For my listeners, make sure that
you check out these speeches. Iwill point out that we did edit
this speech for length so wedon't have all of her words in
there. So if you want to readthe full unabridged speech, I'll
make sure that we cite to it inthe show notes and I am as ever,
your most obedient and humbleservant. Thank you very much.
(34:35):
Your most obedient and humbleservant is a production of R2
Studios at the Roy Rosenzweigcenter for history and new media
at George Mason University. I'mKathyrn Gehred, the creator and
host of this podcast. JeanettePatrick and Jim Ambuske are the
executive producers. If youenjoyed this episode, be sure to
listen to past episodes andcheck out more great podcasts
(34:59):
from R2 Studios. We tellunexpected stories based on the
latest research to connectlisteners with the past so head
to R2 studios.org to start listening.
Hello, and welcome to Your Most Obedient
and Humble Servant. This is aWomen's History podcast where we
feature 18th and early 19thcentury women's letters that
don't get as much attention aswe think they should. I'm your
host, Kathryn Gehred. Thisepisode is part of our season on
the wit. And today I am thrilledto be talking with Chloe Porche.
(00:24):
Chloe is a PhD candidate in theCorcoran Department of History
at the University of Virginia.She's doing research on 19th
century black activism. Andwhat's that? Did I say that I
say 19th century black activismin my 18th and early 19th
century podcast? Yes, I did. AsI've said in the past, it's my
podcast, I'm going to do what Iwant. Honestly, I think you're
(00:47):
going to love what Chloe has tosay. And I think that you'll be
very interested in this subject.So first of all, hello, Chloe.
Chloe Porche (00:53):
Oh, it's so lovely to be here. I'm very excited.
Kathryn Gehred (00:56):
Thank you so much for being on the show. I'm
really happy to talk to you.
Chloe Porche (00:59):
Oh yeah, typically, thanks for having me.
This is a nerd dream. You know,like, my own work cool.
Kathryn Gehred (01:08):
Speaking of nerdy, I met Chloe at a
PowerPoint party. Oh, no, I metyou earlier. But yeah, we
connected at a PowerPoint partywhere we each had to give a talk
on a subject and Chloe gave afascinating talk on her thesis,
and I gave an extremely bizarretalk about a nerdy fandom that
(01:28):
I'm in. And so it's a miraclethat she agreed to come on the
show.
Chloe Porche (01:32):
But also your PowerPoint stuck with me. I
loved it. And I was justthinking about the other day, I
was like, Man, that was a reallygood meme, she explained and
like.
Kathryn Gehred (01:42):
Well, thank you so much. Alright, so to actually
get into the subject matter ofepisodes, so first of all,
normally we do 18th centuryletters. And this is actually
going to be a speech from 1893.Yes, it is a fabulous speech.
And to sort of set up what we'regoing to be talking about, can
(02:02):
you tell me a little bit aboutyour dissertation called
Slavery’s Ghost and the Spiritof Resistance: Black Women Look
back on Emancipation in the Ageof Jim Crow, 1865-1925. So tell
me about it.
Chloe Porche (02:16):
My dissertation, very broadly looks at how black
women in the 1890s Around theturn of the 20th century, how
they use their memory ofemancipation and reconstruction,
to advocate for both women'srights and black rights at the
turn of the 20th century. It'svery much a product on memory
studies, but also on theintellectual history of
(02:40):
emancipation and intellect.History is just a fancy way of
saying we like to trace theideas of people, the ideas and
thoughts of people I love. Thework gets really exciting. I get
to look at a lot of really coolwomen that I did not know about,
and it took me writing adissertation in order to find
them. And I was like, wait aminute, these women are
incredible. Why don't morepeople know about them. So
(03:00):
that's also another reason whyI'm very excited to be on this
podcast because it's the type ofpodcast that gives space for
really cool women.
Kathryn Gehred (03:07):
So this particular speech is by a woman
named Francis ew Harper,introduce her to us.
Chloe Porche (03:14):
She's from Baltimore, Maryland. She is
quite frankly, so hard for me tosum up because of her sheer
badassery. But I will do my bestto try to keep it short and
interesting. She was born in1825 in Baltimore, Maryland,
which at the time was a slavestate. However, she was born to
(03:36):
a free family. The names arePanther actually unknown. We
don't know who her parents were,because they died when she was
three years old. And then heraunt and uncle William Watkins,
Jr. and Henrietta RussellWatkins, kind of adopted her and
register as their own alongsidetheir son named after his
father. What I think is reallyneat about how she was raised in
(03:56):
her family is that the Watkinsfamily is considered a legacy
activist family, WilliamWatkins, Jr, who I'm going to
refer to as Watkins Jr. was areally, really, really prominent
activist in the antebellum era.Watkins Jr. and his wife,
Henrietta Russell Watkins, werea part of the elite black middle
(04:18):
class burgeoning in Baltimore,Maryland, Baltimore, Maryland.
At this time, the antebellum erahad the largest free black
population, and all throughoutmajor cities like Baltimore,
Philadelphia and New York, verysmall, but still growing class
of free black elites. And theywere primarily focused on
activism so they were involvedin abolitionist the abolitionist
(04:40):
movement and the anti slaverymovement. Watkins Jr. actually
started an Academy for Youngblack folks to be educated. It
was called the Watkins Academyfor Negro youth. And this is
actually where Francis Harperwas educated. What's really
unique about Watkins Jr, is thathe received a classical
education, and he was really,really, really passionate about
(05:03):
ending slavery and gainingrights for more African
Americans in a moment when blackfolks didn't really have
citizenship. All of that to saythat this had a serious impact
on shaping and forming the ideasof Francis Ellen Watkins Harper.
Kathryn Gehred (05:19):
It's interesting to talk about the fact that
there is in early 1800s, a freeblack elite in someplace like
Baltimore. Yeah, you mentionedthat your dissertation is in a
large part about memory, thewhole loss cause myth that is so
drilled in everyone's heads kindof erases what was a very real
history of Yes, free blackcities. And even as you say,
(05:39):
free black elite communities.Yeah, in even in slave states,
the difference between historyand memory in some ways when
memory is being warped bycertain historical narratives.
But then when you actually lookat the actual documents and
actual histories, there werefree people there, there were
they were a elite groups, it'ssuper cool that this is an
example of somebody who came outof that particular background.
Chloe Porche (06:01):
Yeah. And also, thank you, you kind of reminded
me of something that once I gotused to I kind of forget, but
when I was first studying theantebellum era, and like the
Revolutionary era, at thebeginning of my program, I
didn't really realize and itwasn't commonly taught. And this
is very true, I think across alot of different types of
curriculum about that there waslike a free black population
(06:23):
that existed between like 18 11865, or 60. Yeah, we just aren't
taught that at all. Nor are wetaught that there was what we
call an elite black community,and that it was kind of in some
regards thriving in certaincities. There was also obviously
a lot of violence and thingsthat were going on that were
kind of working against thiscommunity. But it's really neat
(06:45):
to like learn that and thatthere was these thriving
intellectual centers of blackAmericans. I do want to also say
that when you hear scholars say,elite, black communities, and
they're referring to thosecommunities during the
antebellum era, US defining theblack community as elite is
going to be different than whatwe might think of in terms of
wealth, that has to do withwealth, it has more to do with
(07:08):
access to education, and accessto certain spaces. It's really
more about how well educatedthey were their ability to be
economically self sufficient,and their access to elite whites
who maybe are also involved inabolitionist circles or anti
slavery circles.
Kathryn Gehred (07:25):
Yeah, I think that's a great distinction to
make. It's not imagining free bya person like owning a
plantation looking like ThomasJefferson, like that's exactly,
Chloe Porche (07:32):
exactly. It's unfortunately not Bridgerton.
Although I loved Bridgerton Notgonna lie.
Kathryn Gehred (07:42):
As a fun fantasy. Yes, exactly.
Chloe Porche (07:46):
But yeah, so my work throughout the 19th century
really does focus on blackelites. We can also say, black
middle class, and that's almostinterchanging with the black
middle class and black elites.So that might be a helpful
determiner in saying, equatingthe wealth with elite status. If
you're black middle class in the18th century, that's a big deal.
You do have money, not to samelevels like Thomas Jefferson,
(08:09):
but you have enough money to beself sufficient, and you are
well educated. I think there'salso a misnomer about what does
a black intellect look like? Andthis speech will help you kind
of see that because you're like,Dang girl said, what? And that's
what I found throughout my work.I keep being so excited and
(08:32):
pleasantly surprised by howincredibly thoughtful these
people were. And we're just notgiven that narrative. And so
it's really cool to have thatfalse narrative dispelled.
Kathryn Gehred (08:43):
Yeah, by facts in history, like, exactly. So I
feel like I took you off on atangent there. But was there
anything else you wanted to setup about Francis?
Chloe Porche (08:53):
Yeah, the only thing that I would add to
Francis is that she was manythings. But she was most known
for being an undergroundrailroad operative. She was a
prolific poet. That's just howshe got her start as publishing
poetry. She was also a creativewriter and an essayist, and a
lecturer. Now, what's reallyfascinating about her being a
(09:16):
lecturer is that she made aliving off of lecturing, which
is kind of unheard of, forwomen, but for women, yeah,
especially for black women. Yes,she made a living off of that.
And she's also considered like aradical political and social
activist all throughout the 19thcentury. So she was born in
1825. She died in 1911. Theother thing that think many
(09:36):
people might know her for is shepublished a novel in ancient
India two year before the speechthat we're going to read. And
the novel is called Iola Leroy.And it's just a really great
novel. She centers on themorality of the person and the
importance of a person'smorality. And that connection to
Christianity in particular,which is a theme you see
(09:58):
throughout most of her work herprowess as a speaker, public
speaker, I think is alsosomething that I really want to
emphasize because again, shemade a living off of being a
lecturer. That's incredible, asa woman as much as a black
woman.
Kathryn Gehred (10:11):
That's a good introduction, just to sort of
zone in on exactly what'shappening at the time that she
gave this address. So at thispoint, you said she's published
a book that was fairly wellreceived the year before this.
So she's sort of known as apublic figure and probably as a
poet at this point.
Chloe Porche (10:27):
She at this point, had a huge reputation. People
really wanted to hear her speak.She was one of the few women to
speak at what we call anemancipation celebration or
freedom celebration, likeJuneteenth. On August 1, 1834,
the British Empire abolishedslavery in the West Indies,
there's a big deal, West Indies,excuse me, which was a big deal.
(10:49):
And African Americans use thatday to commemorate another
marking of freedom. Every year,August 1, I had these big
Emancipation Day celebrations.And in 1865, she spoke at one
and very, very, very few women,black women spoke at these
celebrations. So she was one whowill actually allow to speak,
she was very well known at thispoint.
Kathryn Gehred (11:11):
What's going on politically at this time,
Chloe Porche (11:13):
The major things to know about this particular
historical moment is that so thespeech was made in 1893.
Reconstruction ended in 1877.After Reconstruction ended, you
have the Jim Crow era starting.Reconstruction was the legal
(11:33):
social and political changesthat occurred following the
American Civil War. And thesechanges occurred in an attempt
to reintegrate the south backinto the Union. The main thing
to note about reconstruction arethe passage of three amendments,
we call them the Reconstructionamendments. That's the 13th 14th
and 15th. Amendment. The 13thamendment abolished slavery, the
(11:56):
14th Amendment granted AfricanAmericans, what we call
birthright citizenship. Andwhere we get that idea, if
you're born in the UnitedStates, you are an American
citizen. And the 15th Amendmentgranted black men the right to
vote, a bunch of black men wereelected into office, federal,
state and local office. Andthat's a huge deal. We just went
(12:16):
from black folks beingpredominantly enslaved, 4
million being enslaved, to allthose people being freed. And
then some of these people beingelected into office and wielding
great political power. Whenreconstruction ended in 1877, we
see a lot of those gains beingpulled back and a lot of
regression occurring. And that'swhen we see the Jim Crow era
(12:38):
starting. We often hear Jim Crowlaws, or Jim Crow south is a
phrase we might often hear. Andthis was the extra legal ways
that white southerners tried todisenfranchise black Americans,
we started to see kind of wavesof violence occurring since the
start of the Ku Klux Klan, andother white supremacist domestic
(13:01):
terror groups like the whiteknights surfacing. This is
happening in the late 1870s,early 1880s. The other thing I
think, is important to noteabout this moment, the specific
backlash that Harper and blackwomen in particular are
experiencing is that in the1880s, and 1890s, the way that
(13:22):
people had constructed genderroles were changing rapidly.
There were so many changesoccurring throughout society,
the Victorian standards ofmanhood and womanhood, were much
less persuasive and increasinglydifficult to achieve. And so you
get both women and men activelyparticipating in the process of
(13:43):
trying to reform or redefinegender roles. In reforming
gender roles, both manhood andwomanhood, one of the things I
started to occur is whiteintellectuals, were
intentionally trying to createnew ideologies that specifically
target African Americans to kindof further justify taking away
(14:04):
black men's rights, votingrights, and to further justify
the violence that was occurringto black communities all
throughout the South and theNorth as well in the West, but
you get there was like a wave ofarticles that were published
that were specifically targetingnot just black Americans, but
black women in particular.
Kathryn Gehred (14:22):
Where did she give the speech?
Chloe Porche (14:24):
The address was given at the Chicago World's
Fair, which is also called theWorld's Columbian exhibition.
This event in and of itself, Ithink, is quite fascinating. The
Devil in the White City. Yes,yes. Exactly. The fair itself
was like an internationalexhibit designed specifically to
(14:45):
commemorate American progress.The participation of non white
Americans was severelyrestricted and was figuratively
and quite literally marginalizedin terms of how the event was
even set up. And it'sspecifically sought to celebrate
the 400th anniversary ofChristopher Columbus's discovery
(15:06):
of the Americas. And the lastthing that I'll add about this
particular fare is that withthis theme of celebrating
Columbus's discovery of America,the organizers specifically
intended to illustrate theprogress of civilization in the
new world. And to contrast thatwith the progress and the
(15:27):
barbarism, quote, unquote, ofthe old world. So the New World
for them was white Anglo Saxonsocieties and the old world was
indigenous populations. At anyone part of the African diaspora
are of African descent, you seethat in literally them creating
what they call the White City,they actually wanted to call it
the White City to uphold whiteracial ideation. And then they
(15:49):
had the Midway Palisades on theside as kind of zoo exhibitions
to demonstrate the barbarism ofthe quote unquote, Old World. So
this is the context that Frenchtower was making the speech in.
So they have the big white city.And then they had the women's
building which is tacked on tothe margins, again, of the big
white city that was supposed todisplay male white male
(16:12):
dominance, not even we don'twant women to like, not the
women, please no. And so FrancisHarper and five other black
women were invited to speak,sort of invited to speak, they
kind of had to push their way into speak in the women's
building. There was like severaldays where women were speaking
in the women's building, andthey were collectively called
(16:35):
the world's Congress ofrepresentative women, women from
all across the world, wereactually invited to come speak.
It was a group of white womenwho were in charge of selecting
which women were coming tospeak, though six black women
they chose, they chose thembecause they viewed these women
as quote, unquote, safe. Theyweren't gonna say anything that
was gonna rile anyone'sfeathers. They were considered
(16:59):
respectable, all these things.Just to reiterate, this was
given on an internationalinterracial platform. This is a
mixed audience. She's sayingthis to mostly women, but also a
mixed or diverse audience. Soit's a big deal.
Kathryn Gehred (17:17):
And let's dive in.
Chloe Porche (17:21):
A speech given by Francis Ellen Watkins Harper in
1893, and it's titled Women'sPolitical Future. "If before sin
had cast its deepest shadows orsorrow had distilled its
bitterest tears, it was truethat it was not good for man to
be alone, it is no less true,since the shadows have deepened
(17:43):
and life’s sorrows haveincreased, that the world has
need of all the spiritual aidthat woman can give for the
social advancement and moraldevelopment of the human race.
The tendency of the present age,with its restlessness, religious
upheavals, failures, blunders,and crimes is toward broader
(18:05):
freedom, an increase ofknowledge, the emancipation of
thought, and a recognition ofthe brotherhood of man; in this
movement woman, as the companionof man, must be a sharer. So
close is the bond between manand woman that you can not raise
one without lifting the other.The world can not move without
(18:28):
woman’s sharing in the movement,and to help give a right impetus
to that movement is a woman’shighest privilege. Not the
opportunity of discovering newworlds, but that of filling this
old world with fairer and higheraims than the greed of gold and
the lust of power, is hers.Through weary, wasting years men
(18:51):
have destroyed, dashed inpieces, and overthrown, but
to-day we stand on the thresholdof woman’s era, and woman’s work
is grandly constructive. As thesaffron tints and crimson
flushes of morn herald thecoming day, so the social and
political advancement whichwoman has already gained bears
(19:13):
the promise of the rising of thefull-orbed sun of emancipation.
The result will be not to makehome less happy, but society
more holy (19:22):
yet I do not think the mere extension of the ballot
a panacea for all the ills ofour national life. What we need
to-day is not simply morevoters, but better voters.
To-day there are red-handed menin our republic, who walk
unwhipped of justice, who richlydeserve to exchange the ballot
(19:45):
of the freeman for the wristletsof the felon; brutal and
cowardly men, who torture, burn,and lynch their fellow-men, men
whose defenselessness should betheir best defense and their
weakness an ensign ofprotection. More than the
changing of institutions we needthe development of a national
(20:07):
conscience, and the upbuildingof national character. Men may
boast of the aristocracy ofblood, may glory in the
aristocracy of wealthy, butthere is one aristocracy which
must never outrank them all, andthat is the aristocracy of
character; and it is the womenof a country who help to mold
(20:29):
its character, and to influenceif not determine its destiny;
and in the political future ofour nation woman will not have
done what she could if she doesnot endeavor to have our
republic stand foremost amongthe nations of the earth,
wearing sobriety as a crown andrighteousness as a garment and a
(20:51):
girdle. In coming into herpolitical estate woman will find
a mass of illiteracy to bedispelled. If knowledge is
power, ignorance is also power.The power that educates
wickedness may manipulate anddash against the pillars of any
state when they are underminedand honeycombed by injustice. I
(21:13):
envy neither the heart nor thehead of any legislator who has
been born to an inheritance ofprivileges, who has behind him
ages of education, dominion,civilization, and Christianity,
if he stands opposed to thepassage of a national education
bill, whose purpose is to secureeducation to the children of
(21:36):
those who were born under theshadow of institutions that made
it a crime to read. To-day womenhold in their hands influence
and opportunity, and with thesethey have already opened doors
which have been closed toothers. By opening doors of
labor woman has become a rivalclaimant for at least some of
(21:59):
the wealth monopolized by herstronger brother. In the home
she is the priestess, in societythe queen, in literature she is
a power, in legislative hallslaw-makers have responded to her
appeals, and for her sake havehumanized and liberalized their
laws. The press has felt theimpress of her hand. In the pews
(22:22):
of the church she constitutesthe majority: the pulpit has
welcomed her, and in the schoolshe has the blessed privilege of
teaching children and youth. Toher is apparently coming the
added responsibility ofpolitical power; and what she
now possesses should only be themeans of preparing her to use
(22:45):
the coming power for the gloryof God and the good of mankind;
for power without righteousnessis one of the most dangerous
forces in the world. Politicallife in our country has plowed
in muddy channels, and needs theinfusion of clearer and cleaner
waters. I am not sure that womenare naturally so much better
(23:08):
than men that they will clearthe stream by the virtue of
their womanhood (23:12):
it is not through sex but through
character that the bestinfluence of women upon the life
of the nation must be exerted. I do not believe in unrestricted
and universal suffrage foreither men or women. I believe
in moral and educational tests.I do not believe that the most
(23:34):
ignorant and brutal man isbetter prepared to add value to
the strength and durability ofthe government than the most
cultured, upright, andintelligent woman. I do not
think that willful ignoranceshould swamp earnest
intelligence at the ballet-box,nor that educated wickedness,
(23:55):
violence, and fraud shouldcancel the votes of honest men.
The unsteady hands of a drunkardcan not cast the ballot of a
freeman. The hands of lynchersare too red with blood to
determine the politicalcharacter of the government for
even four short years. Theballot in the hands of woman
(24:17):
means power added to influence.How well she will use that power
I cannot foretell. More than theincrease of wealth, the power of
armies, and the strength offleets is the need of good
homes, of good fathers, and goodmothers. O women of America!
Into your hands God has pressedone of the sublimest
(24:39):
opportunities that ever cameinto the hands of the women of
any race or people. It is yoursto create a healthy public
sentiment; to demand justice,simple justice, as the right of
every race to brand witheverlasting infamy the lawless
and brutal cowardice thatlynches, burns, and tortures
(25:01):
your own countrymen. To grapplewith the evils which threaten to
undermine the strength of thenation and to lay magazines of
powder under the cribs of futuregenerations is no child’s play.
Let the hearts of the women ofthe world respond to the song of
the herald angels of peace onearth and good will to men. Let
(25:25):
them throb as one heart unifiedby the grand and holy purpose of
uplifting the human race, andhumanity will breathe freer, and
the world grow brighter. Withsuch a purpose Eden would spring
up in our path, and Paradisewill be around our way."
Kathryn Gehred (25:46):
I think that was a very rousing speech,
particularly thinking of this inthe halls of the White City to
break up all the points that shemakes. So what drew you to this
speech?
Chloe Porche (25:55):
This speech, it was like all six speeches, the
women who spoke that religiousdrew me, and I remember reading
them through for the first time,and being really shocked to hear
what they're saying, what arethey responding to? What are
they referring to, but also itwas just the language about
humanity, and about everyonebeing connected and being one. I
saw it across all six speeches.And I was like, Whoa, what's
(26:18):
going on here? This is veryinteresting, because this is
kind of like one of the firsttimes not the first time but one
of the first times you're reallyseeing on a public stage people
talking about talking abouthuman rights. What really drew
me to this was just the power ofthe language, and even how much
some of the things that wasbeing said in her speech, and
other other woman speeches stillresonate today.
Kathryn Gehred (26:40):
One of the things that struck me about it
reading it is, like you talkedabout how it speaks to sort of
the modern age, I think therestill kind of is this discussion
of whether in feminism ofwhether being a woman just makes
you naturally morally better.And when I read the beginning of
this speech, I was like, Oh, itseems like she's more of the
like women are in the homes,making everything better, and
(27:00):
giving women political powerwill just magically make
everything good. But then shespecifically says that, that she
says, I'm not sure that womenare naturally so much better
than men that they will clearthe stream by the virtue of
their womanhood. And I'm like,Yes, exactly. But what she's
saying is that women's role isto instill the morality, which
is something that was definitelytrue at that time. And that
(27:21):
started back in the 1800s, ofthe woman's places to sort of
create this moral backbone. AndI think that with her argument
of taking political activity,taking that away from race or
gender and making what shethinks in ideal world would be
as if it comes from your moralstrength. And what she's
pointing out is that these menwho are out there lynching other
people should not have the votedo not have the moral qualities
(27:42):
that is demanded. I think thatis a great way to address what
you're talking about, of a womanbeing political is not feminine
enough things like that. She'ssaying, No, we're gonna we're
gonna take all that away, andwe're going to talk about
morality. I thought that wasbrilliantly done.
Chloe Porche (27:56):
Yeah, I agree. When I first read this through
to that line stuck out to methat she's saying that she
doesn't think that women aremore naturally naturally better
that they will clear the stream.But she does say we'll clean it
clean up a little bit. But notit won't clear it but it will
clean up a little bit. And Ithought that was fascinating cuz
(28:16):
she she takes some digs at men.And it's great. Like in the
beginning, I was so tickled likedamn, she came on at them to
said, not the opportunity ofdiscovering new worlds, but that
of feeling old world was fair,in higher aims than the greed of
gold and the lust of power.Women are going to be the ones
who are trying to feel the oldworld was fair and higher aims.
(28:38):
We're not out here trying tocolonize the spaces and lining
our pockets with gold. She'slike, We're better than that.
And I just was so tickledbecause she follows that with
through weary wasting years, menhave destroyed dads and pieces
and overthrown. And then sheintroduces this incredible thing
that becomes a phrase, she says,but today we stand on the
(28:59):
threshold of a woman's era, andwomen's work is grandly constructive,
Kathryn Gehred (29:03):
The part where she says I envy neither the
heart or the head of anylegislator who has been born to
an inheritance of privileges,who has behind them ages of
education, Dominion,civilization and Christianity if
he stands opposed to the passageof a national education bill. I
think that's a point that whitepeople don't get a lot. I mean,
she's talking about privilege,but she's like, I don't care if
you have this privilege. I don'twant that if you don't have the
(29:25):
moral understanding orcharacter. If you if you are so
morally bankrupt, that you wouldoppose the passage of an
education bill, then I don'twant to be you that was just
beautifully put. I feel likethat is a sentiment that could
easily again be made today.
Chloe Porche (29:37):
Yes, Black woman at this moment are also
contributing to this first waveof feminism and many of the
women that are in my work, likethis woman named Anna Julia
Cooper are considered the motherof black feminist thought and
Francis Harper is definitelypart of that kind of cadre of
women are they're making thisinsight on a public stage about
(29:57):
the fact that black men are justwanting to play the roles, white
men, and some white women areoften the same thing. And
because black women are bothwomen, and they are also part of
the black race, thatintersectionality that crossing
of those two intersectionsforces them to recognize
something that their malecounterparts and their white
(30:17):
counterparts don't always recordor would take more for them to
recognize. If you know, do youknow Audre Lord?
Kathryn Gehred (30:24):
She's on my wall.
Chloe Porche (30:29):
Phenomenal. So Audre Lord has this great little
quote called the Masters Tools.We're not dismantle the Masters
House branches, Harper andultimately, at this moment are
foreshadowing that little maximof like, we don't want to be the
master. And the tools of themaster has given us don't allow
us to dismantle the house. We'retrying to say this is all really
(30:49):
messed up. And we need to shiftthe conversation to morality,
y'all. It's not raised. It's notsex. It's not class, its
character, its morality, we needto focus on morality a bit more.
Once I dug more into thespeeches really drew me to what
she was saying. And you see thatacross a lot of her work.
Kathryn Gehred (31:06):
That sort of ties into I want to mention
where she says that she is notfor universal suffrage, that she
wants there to be moral andeducational tests, which at a
moment when these tests arebeing used 100% to
disenfranchise black voters inthe South. That's an interesting
statement.
Chloe Porche (31:22):
She's looking at how people have been voting, the
people who are voting, she'slooking at how black men are
being systematicallydisenfranchised, just after they
were just in franchised. Andshe's seeing at this moment to
1892, the year before a womannamed Ida B. Wells, who's
another incredible badass blackfemale activists that is so so
(31:43):
cool and kicked out on forever,and I won't, but I'd be well
known for starting the antilynching campaign, and blue that
onto a kind of a national andinternational stage, like what
is lynching? Why is it startingnow? Like what? What's really
behind it? Francis Harper iskeyed into this, this
conversation that's likehappening in a really large
(32:04):
stage for the first time aboutlynching and saying that it's
white men are lynching black menand black women in these really
horrific, violent ways. Andthese people allowed to vote. So
she's like clocking that she'ssaying that she's saying this is
not right. So for her, if youare morally corrupt, you should
not have this incredible power,this political power that should
(32:28):
be taken from you. Yeah,
Kathryn Gehred (32:29):
That makes a lot of sense. The context of giving
women the vote was alreadyshaking everything up so much
that she sort of seeing thisless as like, how are white
people wouldn't use this todisenfranchise people and more
of a lens of well, if we'regoing to enfranchise
theoretically, who should weenfranchise? And her answer is
people who have the characterand moral capacity.
Chloe Porche (32:46):
The main thing is that those last few paragraphs I
think are so love, which is Owomen of America, into your
hands, God has pressed one ofthe sublime miss opportunities
that has ever come into thehands of women of any race or
people. It is your job to createa healthy public sentiment to
demand justice, simple justiceas the right of every race to
(33:07):
brand with everlasting infamy,the lawless and brutal cowardice
that Lynch's burned and torturesyour own countrymen." So right
there, she's really been like,Look, you guys it is in your
hands as a moral arbiters of theworld to ensure that this
violence in this brutalcowardice stops, it's our job as
women it is our reading, we needto stop this and when we get the
(33:29):
vote, we can use that power.This is at a time when lynching
itself was people in the Northwere like that's kind of gross,
maybe we shouldn't do that'shorrible. That's pretty
horrendous. But you know, it'syou know, kitschy little
southern thing is kind of how alot of northerners and even
black northerners and someblacks others had even viewed
(33:50):
it. And it wasn't until IW Wellshad to come on the scene and
really demonstrate to peoplewhat was actually happening with
punching, that that shifted. Sothe fact that Harper is saying
this, at this speech is a bigdeal as well.
Kathryn Gehred (34:06):
Thank you so much for coming on the show. Chloe
Chloe Porche (34:08):
Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast
and enjoy.
Kathryn Gehred (34:13):
Oh, thank you. For my listeners, make sure that
you check out these speeches. Iwill point out that we did edit
this speech for length so wedon't have all of her words in
there. So if you want to readthe full unabridged speech, I'll
make sure that we cite to it inthe show notes and I am as ever,
your most obedient and humbleservant. Thank you very much.
(34:35):
Your most obedient and humbleservant is a production of R2
Studios at the Roy Rosenzweigcenter for history and new media
at George Mason University. I'mKathyrn Gehred, the creator and
host of this podcast. JeanettePatrick and Jim Ambuske are the
executive producers. If youenjoyed this episode, be sure to
listen to past episodes andcheck out more great podcasts
(34:59):
from R2 Studios. We tellunexpected stories based on the
latest research to connectlisteners with the past so head
to R2 studios.org to start listening.
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