March 27, 2025 • 49 mins
Dr. Emily Sneff joins Kathryn Gehred to discuss a letter from Polly Palmer to John Adams dated 4 August 1776, in which Palmer thanks Adams for sending her one of the earliest printings of the Declaration of Independence. In this episode, Gehred and Sneff explore Palmer and Adams’s lifelong friendship, their experience getting inoculated for smallpox together, and military movements during the War for Independence.
Dr. Emily Sneff is a historian and leading expert on the United States Declaration of Independence. She is a consulting curator for exhibitions planned for the 250th anniversary of the Declaration in 2026 at the Museum of the American Revolution, the American Philosophical Society, and Historic Trappe. She is also the curator of digital content for Declaration Stories. Her forthcoming book explores the dissemination of the Declaration around the Atlantic in the summer and fall of 1776.
Find the official transcript here.
Your Most Obedient & Humble Servant is a production of R2 Studios part of the Roy Rosenzweig Center for History and New Media at George Mason University.
“Mary Palmer to John Adams, 15 June 1776,” Adams Family Correspondence, Volume 2, Massachusetts Historical Society, https://www.masshist.org/publications/adams-papers/index.php/view/ADMS-04-02-02-0007.
“John Adams to Mary Palmer, 5 July 1776,” Adams Family Correspondence, Volume 2, Massachusetts Historical Society, https://www.masshist.org/publications/adams-papers/index.php/view/ADMS-04-02-02-0018.
“Mary Palmer to John Adams, 4 August 1776,” Adams Family Correspondence, Volume 2, Massachusetts Historical Society, https://www.masshist.org/publications/adams-papers/index.php/view/ADMS-04-02-02-0047.
“To John Adams from Mary Palmer, 25 November 1789,” Papers of John Adams, Volume 20, Massachusetts Historical Society, https://www.masshist.org/publications/adams-papers/index.php/view/ADMS-06-20-02-0121.
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Episode Transcript
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Kathryn Gehred (00:03):
Hello and welcome to Your Most Obedient &
Humble Servant. This is awomen's history podcast where we
feature 18th and early 19thcentury letters that don't get
as much attention as we thinkthey should. I am your host
Kathryn Gehred. Today I amthrilled to welcome Dr. Emily
Sneff to the podcast. Emily is ahistorian of early America and a
(00:24):
leading expert on the UnitedStates Declaration of
Independence. She is currently aconsulting curator for the
semiquincentennial of theDeclaration of Independence with
the Museum of the AmericanRevolution, the American
Philosophical Society, andHistoric Trap. Welcome to the
podcast, Emily.
Emily Sneff (00:40):
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
Kathryn Gehred (00:42):
We're really excited to have you. So you have
a book that's going to be comingout next year, right? Can you
tell me a little bit about it?
Emily Sneff (00:48):
I do, yeah, it's going to be with Oxford
University Press sometime inearly 2026 and it's about the
Declaration of Independence in1776 so how the news initially
spread around the Atlantic, andthe reactions to it and the sort
of diplomatic and militarystories that we often overlook
(01:09):
because we forget that there wasa moment where no one knew if
independence was actually goingto be secured. So it's really
interesting to think about thecontingencies and the sort of
different emotions associatedwith the declaration in 1776
when no one knew that we'd stillbe here 250 years later.
Kathryn Gehred (01:27):
That's super fascinating. I used to be a tour
guide at Thomas Jefferson'sMonticello, and so you start to
hear things about, like theDunlap broadside and like
different versions that stillexist as, sort of like
collectors editions of theDeclaration of Independence, and
there's this, like whole sort ofworld surrounding it that I've
always thought was reallyinteresting, and you'd never
know when you're giving a tourif somebody was going to know a
(01:48):
ton about it or have no idea.
Emily Sneff (01:50):
Like me, I tried, when I last toured Monticello, I
tried to hang back and notreally comment on anything, but
my parents were looking at melike, you know about that, don't
you?
Kathryn Gehred (02:00):
If you get a guest that knows a ton, it can
be wonderful or it can beterrible. Yeah, that's awesome.
What sparked your interest inthe Declaration of Independence?
Emily Sneff (02:07):
So I kind of backed my way into early American
history. I studied medievalhistory and museum studies in my
undergraduate time at JohnsHopkins, and I was coming into
the museum world at a time wherethere were not a lot of jobs. So
I was volunteering and justtrying to get as much experience
as possible. And I ended uphelping out at the American
(02:28):
Philosophical Society on aresearch project about their
bust of Thomas Jefferson by JeanAntoine Houdon. And I knew
nothing about Jefferson, knewnothing about the founding era,
and just kind of startedresearching, ended up helping
out with a series of exhibitionsthat they were doing on
Jefferson. And the first one wasabout Jefferson and the
(02:49):
declaration. And the APS has areally phenomenal collection of
unique copies of the Declarationof Independence. So I started
realizing, like this thing, thatI thought we knew everything
about the founding document ofthe United States early in
American history. Actually,there's still a lot to do, still
a lot to uncover, and that was10 years ago, and now I'm here,
(03:12):
so yeah, it's been a reallyinteresting trajectory. And I'm
from Philadelphia originally.It's a great place to, you know,
study the declaration and tothink about the Declaration's
impact. So I'm always walkingpast Independence Hall and just
kind of, you know, soaking allof the history behind this
document in but also trying tomake it approachable for people
who do not live here and may nothave as close of a connection to
(03:34):
the founding era as I have sortof developed over the last 10
years.
Kathryn Gehred (03:38):
Cool. Do you have a favorite edition of the
Declaration of Independence?
Emily Sneff (03:42):
I have favorite editions of the declaration for
like design purposes or becausethey were owned by a particular
person, but I also have copiesthat really frustrate me. So
there's one copy that has, likehaunted me for literally 10
years at this point at theAmerican Philosophical Society,
and it's a broadside printed byJohn Dunlap on parchment. And it
(04:05):
seems as though it was printedafter he did his sort of initial
batch of hundreds of copies onthe night of July 4 into July 5.
But this is on parchment, andit's a different type setting,
and over the course ofresearching and coming back to
it and stepping away from it. Istill have not been able to
solve the mystery of why exactlyhe created this copy. And the
(04:26):
added wrinkle is it ended up inthe hands of David Rittenhouse
and was given to the AmericanPhilosophical Society after his
death. And I descended fromDavid Rittenhouse's sister.
Kathryn Gehred (04:40):
Oh!
Emily Sneff (04:41):
So I have this personal connection too, that
makes it even more aggravatingthat I can't figure out why
exactly this copy was printed,what its purpose was. So maybe
someday I'll solve that mystery.
Kathryn Gehred (04:52):
Uncle David help us out!
Emily Sneff (04:53):
I know you would think like telepathically, I
might be able to have some sortof seance and figure out.
Exactly this copy existed, butno.
Kathryn Gehred (05:02):
Oh, that's fascinating. So with all of your
decade of research into this,what's something that you wish
more people understood about theDeclaration of Independence?
Emily Sneff (05:11):
I always encourage people just read the Declaration
of Independence, because I thinka lot of Americans, but also
people around the world, becausethe declaration has had such,
you know, a huge impact inlegacy. They think they know
what's in the Declaration ofIndependence, but every time I
read it, and I'm, you know, inthe thousands of times at this
point, I noticed something thatI hadn't noticed before. And it
(05:34):
can seem as if it's anantiquated document. It can seem
as though the grievances againstKing George III have no relation
to modern life, but when youread the declaration, you'll
find things that you can relateto. And I think, as we approach
the 250 and hopefully, a lot ofpublic readings of the
declaration and sort ofcelebrations, but also critiques
(05:54):
of it, people will pay attentionto the text. It's only 1300
words. It doesn't take you thatlong to read it. So that's what
I encourage people to do.
Kathryn Gehred (06:02):
Thats awesome. One of my favorite ways to
celebrate the Fourth of July isto, like, attend a public
reading of the Declaration ofIndependence, because that is
the type of nerd that I am.
Emily Sneff (06:10):
That's a good type of nerd.
Kathryn Gehred (06:11):
And then also, it's really powerful to read
that alongside the FrederickDouglass What to a Slave is the
Declaration of Independence inthe Fourth of July?
Emily Sneff (06:19):
Absolutely,
Kathryn Gehred (06:20):
I just always find that really meaningful to
think about.
Emily Sneff (06:23):
Yeah for the exhibit that I've been working
on with the Museum of theAmerican Revolution, I've become
more familiar with these otherdeclarations and sort of
commentaries that came later. SoI knew about the Declaration of
Sentiments in 1848 I didn't knowabout the 1876 Women's
Declaration of Rights that theyactuallyinterrupted the
celebration at Independence Hallon July 4, 1876 to present their
(06:46):
declaration. So there's so manydocuments out there that, like,
if you pair them up, either youknow, for your own personal
interest or with students, it'sreally effective to kind of get
a sense of where the languagefalls short, or where it sets
out promises that people comeback to generations later. So
definitely, studying thedeclaration in context is
(07:07):
important.
Kathryn Gehred (07:08):
Thank you. That's, I think, a great setup.
Today we're going to be talkingabout a letter that talks about
one of these early prints of theDeclaration of Independence. I'm
really excited. I had not heardof this before you sent it to
me, and I just thought it wassuper fascinating.
Emily Sneff (07:21):
Oh, great.
Kathryn Gehred (07:21):
Today, we're going to look at a letter from
Mary, mostly called Polly Palmerto John Adams, written in
Germantown, Massachusetts, onAugust 4, 1776 so to sort of set
up the context, who was PollyPalmer?
Emily Sneff (07:36):
Polly Palmer was born in 1746 so she would have
been 30 years old in 1776Unfortunately, she died in 1791
so she had a really short life.She was the daughter of Joseph
Palmer and Mary Cranch, and ifyou can follow the family tree,
Mary Cranche's brother wasRichard Cranch, who was married
(07:56):
to Mary Smith, whose sister wasAbigail Smith, who was married
to John Adams. So they are allrelated. You know, sort of kins
woman of the Adams. Polly's areally fascinating person,
because we have very few kind ofrecords of what her life was
like. We have an account fromher grand niece that sort of
(08:18):
records what her later life waslike, and then we have a handful
of letters, but as far as we cantell, when she was a young
woman, she was vivacious, shewas like, everyone's favorite
person. She was super smart. Shewould ride into town. They lived
in Germantown, outside ofBoston, and she would ride into
Boston to chat up her father'sbusiness associates and come
(08:42):
back, you know, after the sunhad set, and her mother was so
worried about her riding on herown, like, you can just get a
sense of like she had a reallyfascinating personality and a
lot of potential. And when shewas 19, so that was in 1765, she
suffered from a nervousdisorder. The story is that her
father was bragging about howawesome she was to a friend of
(09:05):
his, and, you know, said shewasn't scared of anything. And
this friend said, Okay, let'stest that, and fired a gun above
her head while she was sort ofnapping. And from that moment,
she suffered from seizures. Andher health, both physical and
mental health, declinedthroughout the rest of her life.
(09:26):
So it's really as this had storyof someone who, you know, we can
tell was a really bigpersonality who starts to kind
of shrivel up, according to theletters that survive after this
moment at such a young age. Soultimately, she doesn't marry,
she doesn't have children, shestays with family members the
rest of her life, and she'sremembered by her grandniece as
(09:47):
sort of poor aunt, Polly, whichis really quite sad. So I love
that, talking about this letterin particular, we get a sense of
how she still had agency in herlife, and how she still was a
dynamic person, even if. Oneelse sort of remembered her in a
different way.
Kathryn Gehred (10:03):
That's like, just trying to think of, like,
why you would shoot a gun oversomebody's head. Like, that's
messed up.
Emily Sneff (10:08):
It's really, you know, it's tragic, yeah, the
story of the family is that herfather was devastated by the
role that he played in this so,yeah, it's really unfortunate.
How did you first learn aboutPolly? So I first came across
Polly Palmer in the fall of2020. I had just finished my
graduate exams in the pandemic,not really sure when I would be
(10:31):
able to do research for this bigtransatlantic project that I had
in mind. I was grieving the lossof my father. I was just like
facing a lot of uncertainty,and, you know, studying the
Declaration of Independence, youhave people like Thomas
Jefferson and John Adams who arehard to relate to. And I came
across this 30 year old singlewoman as a 30 year old single
(10:53):
woman myself facing similaruncertainty, right? Like, not
that we can exactly compare thepandemic to the Revolutionary
War, but a similar state of,like, not really knowing what
comes next, being worried aboutyour physical safety, your
family's health. So I justimmediately was like, Okay, now
I get this perspective, like Ifinally have someone that I can
connect with. So I felt a realkinship with her, so much so
(11:17):
that literally, the first linesof my dissertation that I wrote
were about her, because I justhad the spark of an idea that I
can actually relate to thisperson. And she also sums up
really well the thesis of bothmy book project and sort of my
approach to the declaration ingeneral, which is there's a much
more expansive history of thefounding of the United States
(11:39):
out there, if we step outside ofIndependence Hall and we think
about where the declaration wentand the people who received that
news and lived through thismoment, rather than just
focusing on the men who draftedand debated and signed the
Declaration, like John Adams.
Kathryn Gehred (11:54):
Yeah, you've mentioned that she's related to
Emily Sneff (11:54):
They had a really interesting friendship that
John Adams through the Cranches,but what was her relationship
like with John Adams?
lasted through the end of herlife when they were young,
before she had this nervousdisorder, they were actually
inoculated for smallpox at thesame time in Boston. But there's
(12:16):
this really interesting sort ofmoment where all of their
friends and sort of familymembers kind of hole up together
and go through inoculation.Abigail is not involved, because
her parents were worried abouther being inoculated, but John
and Polly and other friends gothrough inoculation together,
and it's a bonding experience.And the letters from that time
are some of the clues of whather life was like after she and
(12:40):
John were both feeling better.The worst symptoms had subsided.
They used a wagon and drove allaround town to get fresh air.
And it's really, it's lovely tothink about. So she was part of
this friend group, and they allused pseudonyms. So she used the
pseudonym Myra, another friend,Eunice Payne, used the synonym
of Sylvia, and they wrote theseletters back and forth to each
(13:02):
other. So she was certainlyfriends with John Adams from
when she was young through allof his political career. And
actually, the last letter thatwe have of hers is from the time
when he is preparing his libraryto actually move to his new
office as Vice President of theUnited States, and she's helping
to catalog his library. She'sliving in the Adams home at that
(13:24):
time, so there's only snippetsalong the way of her connection
to both John and Abigail Adamsin the Adams papers. But they
certainly were friends. Theywere not just acquaintances or
neighbors. They were friends.
Kathryn Gehred (13:38):
There's a historical fiction novel that I
read called Octavia Nothing.There's a whole section in that
book that's about a smallpoxparty where they, like, invite
everybody to a house and theygive everybody smallpox at the
same time. It doesn't sound likethat's exactly what happened
here. Just reading about thatdid make me think about, you
know, it's scary to beinoculated back then and to go
(13:58):
through this like, hopefullygentler version of the sickness.
I can imagine that would reallycreate a bond between people who
all went through that together.
Emily Sneff (14:04):
I think so, yeah, and we can tell even like
Abigail feels really left out,like she's worried about her
fiance going throughinoculation, she's, you know,
worried for his physical health,but she also feels jealous that
he's spending this time with herfriends And she's not there. So
you tend to forget how youngthese people were. You know,
(14:24):
when we put them up on apedestal, we forget that they
are young. And you know, you canimagine a young Abigail Smith at
that time being like man I haveFOMO!
Kathryn Gehred (14:37):
John Adams is not my area of expertise, but I
just imagine him a lot as PaulGiamatti in the the mini series,
a young Paul Giamatti hangingout with smallpox, a little bit
of setup of their relationship.This letter is from fourth
August, 1776 most people have ageneral idea of what John Adams
is doing in August of 1776 whatsort of is. Going on in his
(15:00):
life. Where's he? What's thecontext for John Adams? John
Adams
Emily Sneff (15:04):
is still in Philadelphia, and at this point,
he has found out that his wifeand children are being
inoculated for smallpox. ButAbigail had made the decision to
inoculate her children, adecision that her parents didn't
feel comfortable with for hershe made for her children during
the small window wheninoculation was allowed in
Boston. But she didn't want Johnto find out, because she knew
(15:27):
that he was working onIndependence and the Articles of
Confederation and foreigntreaties and being the chair of
the board of war like he has alot going on. So she tried to
keep that secret from him. Hefound out anyway, and became
distraught. We're in this sortof month of time where he does
not know what's going on inBoston. He, you know, has sort
(15:48):
of a sense from letters thathe's getting from different
people, including from Polly,but he is worried about his
family, and so I think the backand forth that he and Polly
Palmer have it spread out overthe course of a couple of
months, just because of the paceof mail, and as we'll talk
about, the shortage of paper.But you can imagine that when he
did receive this letter thatwe're going to talk about it at
(16:11):
least brought him a little bitof calm to get some news from
Boston at this time, when he wasreally worried because he was so
busy in Philadelphia, but hereally did want to be in Boston
with his family. And what'sgoing on in Polly's life. It's
hard to read between the linesand get a sense of exactly what
was going on in her life the waythat we can when someone like
John Adams, whose dailymovements are pretty well
(16:31):
recorded, but she had just madeit through the British
occupation of Boston, she andher family lived in Germantown,
which is outside of Boston, sothey would have been able to see
and hear everything that washappening during the battles
from Lexington and Concordthrough to Bunker Hill,
everything that was happening inthe harbor. And it would have
been a really hard year toexperience that, to know what
(16:55):
was happening with yourneighbors after the evacuation
of Boston that was immediatelyfollowed by this smallpox
outbreak that leads to massinoculations to try to curb it,
so she was safe from that. Butobviously, at the time of a lot
of people moving in and out anduncertainty, her father was
helping with the militia. Sothere's a sort of military
energy in her household. So youcan imagine that it was pretty
(17:19):
busy. There was a lot happeningaround you, but also still a lot
of uncertainty, not reallyknowing what was going to happen
next. I imagine, for somebodywho has a little bit of trauma
surrounding gunfire, to suddenlybe in a city that you can hear
cannons and things like that,probably wasn't great for her,
absolutely. Yeah, that was myfirst impression when I when I
really started to sit with theseletters between Polly Palmer and
(17:40):
John Adams, and think about thisnervous condition that she had.
You don't want to diagnosemedical conditions of the past,
but I have to imagine that therewas some sort of PTSD involved.
And you can kind of tell not inthese letters, though she does
talk about gunfire and actionhappening in the harbor, but in
other letters that she wrote tofriends, she talks about being
scared of thunder, and I have toimagine that it was really
(18:04):
challenging for her, and it maynot have been something that she
felt comfortable sharing withJohn, but surely her family knew
that it was hard for her to livethrough this occupation.
Kathryn Gehred (18:15):
Any other sort of final context you want to
share before we jump in?
Emily Sneff (18:18):
No, I think that's good.
Kathryn Gehred (18:19):
And now for the letter.
Her writing style is so good. Ilove that she signs with Myra as
Mary Palmer to John Adams,Germantown, 4 August 1776 Sir,
I had the honour of your letterof the 5th July above a
fortnight ago, and should muchsooner have acknowledged the
favor had not an absolute wantof Paper prevented, having none
(18:40):
but blank Commissions in theHouse which we used for little
Billets, but wou’d not do tosend to the Congress. You do me
great honor in receiving myAccount of the Evacuation of the
Harbour so well. I am sensibleit was very imperfect, but it
was the best I cou’d do at thetime from my informations. One
thing I think I greatly err’din, which was that the Ships did
not return the fire upon LongIsland, which I am since
(19:02):
inform’d they did by those whowere Eye Witnesses. I shou’d not
have mention’d it now, but thatI am loth that any
misinformation of mind shou’dlead to a false Account of a
Fact which ought to berepresented as it really was,
and transmitted to future ages.Your Compliments are sufficient
to make one vain, but still Imake Allowances for the
Privilege the Gentlemen assumeof “flattering the other sex a
(19:22):
you've set up as their theirsort of nicknames from back in
little.” And perhaps it may betho’t necessary sometimes in
order to ease us of that BashfulDiffidence so natural to most of
us—A Plea for Flattering which Ithink the Gentlemen much oblig’d
me for. You really make me proudby desiring my future
Correspondance, and I will notin hopes of being again ask’d
decline the favour. All I shallsay is this, that whenever there
(19:45):
is any event of a Public Naturehappens of which I can give you
a proper Account to the best ofmy Abilities, it will give me
pleasure to do it; but atpresent there seems little
Likelihood of any such in theseparts but what will be better
told by your good Lady, to whomI shall cheerfully resign the
Pen on her Recovery from theSmall Pox. There is nothing
gives Papa much more Concernthan his not being able to get
(20:07):
time to write to You and Mr.Paine, oftener than he does; It
is impossible for one Man to domore than he does, his time is
wholly bestow’d on the Publick,both by Day and Night; It is but
3 Days in 2 Years that he hasbeen at Home on his private
the day. So she mentions thatshe sent him an account of the
Affairs, and even part of those3 days have been employed either
in writing Expresses or PlanningForts. Few Gentlemen cou’d say
(20:30):
the same. He is now the chiefCommander at Hull in the Room of
Genll. Lincoln who isinoculated, and very busy every
Hour he can steal from Businessor Sleep in Planning
Fortifications and Salt Works. Iam sorry the former are still
wanted in our Harbour but everyBody is not so Active as Papa,
if they were they wou’d not beto be Plannd now. I most
(20:51):
sincerely thank you for yourPresent of the Declaration of
Independancy; nothing cou’d havegiven me more pleasure. It was
universally receive’d with Joyby the friends of their Country.
I don’t know what the Toriesthink but I believe they say
nothing. As this is a veryimportant, so I hope it may be a
very happy Revolution and thatthe latest Posterity may have
(21:12):
Reason to look back to the Year1776, as the happy Era of their
Liberties being secur’d by theWisdom of the Congress. How
evacuation of the harbor. Canyou tell me a little more about that?
pleasing is the reflexion ofevery true Patriot to be assur’d
of having done his duty to hisGod and Country and of having
his Memory rever’d by hisDescendants and Countrymen to
the End of Time. The first ofthis Month was kept as a Day of
(21:34):
Fasting and Prayer by thisColony. I hope that our repeated
Petitions to the Throne of Gracewill be Accepted, and that our
unnatural Enemies may be turnedfrom us. I can say little of
your family, only that we hearthey are Comfortable. Ours is
pretty well, except Miss Painewho has an ill turn, occasion’d
by overdoing herself at WorkYesterday. I hope it won’t last
(21:55):
long but at present she is veryill. As I don’t know but my
Letter may find the Way toStaten Island You will excuse my
not butting my name to it anyfurther than that of your humble
Servt., Myra
Emily Sneff (22:24):
Yeah, on June 15, she writes this letter to John
Adams, and I love how shestarts, because if you know that
they're friends, that theirrelationship pre exists this
moment, this is such an awkwardsentence to start a letter with.
She says, you will wonder atreceiving a letter from one who
is very far from beingsufficiently qualified to write
to a member of the grandCongress, but I am under
(22:46):
parental injunctions to do it,which every good child ought to
obey. That is such an awkwardopening line. It's as if they
have never met, never spoken.But, I mean, she's basically
just saying, like, I recognizethat we are no longer, you know,
just hanging out as friends uphere in Massachusetts, you're
serving in the ContinentalCongress in Philadelphia. And
(23:08):
clearly, her father had wantedto send an account to John
Adams, and didn't have the timeto do so, so she writes one for
him. And basically, if you thinkabout this moment the British
had evacuated in March of 1776so now we're in June, and the
harbor is still not completelysecured. So most of the
(23:30):
Continental Army had left Bostonand gone to New York to prepare
for a likely British attackthere. But Boston is sort of
still in this kind of transitorymoment. So Polly's father is
involved in the fortificationsthat are being developed for the
city with this sort of smallercontingent of the Continental
(23:52):
Army that's also kind ofprotecting this important harbor
from any British ships comingback. So Polly writes a letter
on June 15 to John Adams, andshe describes a sort of
confrontation between ships inthe harbor. And she does a
really good job of recounting,kind of hour by hour, what was
(24:13):
happening. And it seems like shewrote the bulk of the letter and
then added to it as she got moreinformation, but also as she was
waiting for an opportunity tosend it. So she addressed this
letter to John Adams. She signedit Polly Palmer. Then she added
some information that she hadgotten from her father, exact
numbers of you know, thedifferent militia groups that
(24:36):
were involved in the locations.And then she adds another note
the following day, adding moreinformation. And so this is a
letter that she kept adding tobut the whole time, she has this
sort of energy that we see inher August letter as well. Of
like, I don't quite know if I'mqualified to do this, to give
you this information, so it'sreally hedging and anxious. And
(24:58):
you know, to the best of my.Knowledge to the best of the
information that I have, this iswhat I'm giving you, but that's
the account that she sends. Andgiven the timing of mail at this
moment, John Adams would havereceived this June 15 letter
around July 1, which is when theContinental Congress resumes its
debate on whether or not todeclare independence. So busy
(25:20):
week, but he ends up receivingthis account, as well as a
couple of others, and he is gladto know again, what's happening
in Boston, and both on apersonal level, but also in his
position on the board of war,thinking about, how can we
fortify Boston? How can we makesure that the city is not at
greater risk than it needs to begiven all the other places that
(25:43):
the Continental Army needs to beat this time?
Kathryn Gehred (25:45):
I fell like that's really significant for,
like, the history of gender inthe American Revolution,
particularly of white women andgender of the revolution.
Because she's doing an importantjob. She's passing along a
military correspondence, butshe's acknowledging, I actually
find that relatable, of herbeing like, I am giving you
important military information,and this is not my job. I'm so
(26:05):
sorry if I mess this up. I'mdoing my best. This is not what
I signed up for, exactly, buther dad trusts her enough. Okay,
I'm too busy to do this. You dothis, and then she does a good
job.
Emily Sneff (26:17):
She does! John Adams tells Abigail that Polly
Palmer gave him a more accurateaccount than anyone else. So we
know that she did a good job ofthis, even though she feels like
she needs to correct thenumbers. She doesn't want any
decisions to be made on a falseaccount that she accidentally
gave. But yeah, she does a goodjob, and her reason for writing
it beyond her father probablyasking her to do so is Abigail
(26:41):
Adams, who's typically inBraintree with her children on
their farm, was in Plymouth thatweek, so she was close enough to
the Adams family that she knewthat Abigail was away and that
no one would be writing to JohnAdams. So she has an awareness
of communication networks, andeven though she does not feel
qualified to do this, and, youknow, maybe hasn't written to
(27:03):
him before. Maybe has only kindof been in conversation with him
in person, and their friendshiphas existed sort of face to
face. She feels like I have todo this. I have to write this
letter to the grand Congress.So, yeah, really intimidating.
Kathryn Gehred (27:17):
What did John think of the information that he
got when he got this veryapologetic opening letter.
Emily Sneff (27:21):
So John Adams receives this letter the first
week of July. Obviously he'salso voting to declare
independence from Great Britain,and his letters from this week
are very well known. He writestwo letters to Abigail Adams
that are really well known forthe way that he talks about how
the Fourth of July, he thinksit's the second of July, but how
Independence Day is going to beremembered by generations to
(27:42):
come. So he is on a roll withhis letter writing this week,
and on July 5, he writes toPolly to thank her for this
account that he thought wasreally well done, explaining
exactly what had happened inBoston Harbor. And he says,
You've given me, notwithstandingall your modest apologies, an
account that was written withelegance and to minute and
(28:05):
circumstantial narration of whathappened in the harbor. I always
say that John Adams uses alovingly condescending tone to
the women in his life. He doesso with Abigail, and he does so
with Polly. And in this letterthat he writes on July 5, he
says, in times as turbulent asthese, commend me to the ladies.
For historiographers, thegentlemen are too much engaged
(28:27):
in action. The ladies are coolerspectators and fine. The men are
busy. The women need to step upand do the writing. Okay? But I
think what he's really saying isthat the people involved in the
action are almost too close toit. And so a woman like Polly,
who is informed and educated andconnected to the people who have
(28:50):
the information that he needs,can write an account that's more
of a sort of history of what washappening. And so she did a good
job of that, and he kind oftreats her as if this is
something that she couldcontinue to do.
We can ask Mercy Otis Warren what she thinks
Kathryn Gehred (29:03):
I'm just going to jump in and say I do believe
that women are better at historythan men. I'll go on record and
say that that's my belief andthat John Adams backs me up.
about that.
Yeah, it's exactly like you say.He's being a little
condescending. I know that thisis just the way people wrote
letters back then, but hisletter feels a little bit flirty
(29:26):
to me, the way he's writing toher, like, Oh, you did such a
nice job.
He does, yeah, he addresses itMiss Polly, which I think is
cute, but it also confirms thatthat's, you know, what her
friends called her, if you thinkof how his week was going, right
that he is exhausted andrelieved at finally having
declared independence andapproved the Declaration of
(29:48):
Independence and been part ofthat process, and he's starting
to work on a new seal for theUnited States, and he's
preparing for an attack on NewYork, like he has a lot going
on, and yet he takes the time towrite a pretty lengthy. Letter
to his friend, complimentingher. And you can tell that he
has this sort of like, I don'tknow if flirty is the right
(30:08):
word, but just like congenialtone to him that like he's
delighted to have received aletter from her, and he's also
grateful for the information shegave but he's sort of like
reflecting on the fact that,like you could do this, I rely
on women to give me accounts ofwhat's going on. It's a letter
that has been sort of separatedfrom its context. It's been
treated for John Adamsperspective and not Polly's
(30:31):
perspective, and I think that'smissing a key part of the story
that like for all of herapologies and her sort of
anxiety about writing to him, heis genuinely so glad to have
heard from her. That's kind ofnice to think about.
She does mention that she gets the Declaration of
Independence. She gets hisletter from John Adams, and she
wants to write him back, butthere's no paper in the house.
(30:53):
She has these little things,these military commissions on
them that they've been using inthe house, but they would not do
to send to Congress. Was thispart of like a revolutionary war
paper shortage. What was goingon there?
Emily Sneff (31:03):
Definitely, so if you think about the timeline. So
she writes to John on June 15.He writes back on July 5, and he
encloses, more than likely, oneof the first printings of the
Declaration of Independence toher, probably one of John
Dunlap's broadsides that heprinted the night of July 4. If
he had included a different copyof newspaper or something, he
(31:23):
probably would have described itdifferently. So we can assume
that this was one of the men whoworked on the Declaration of
Independence, enclosing one ofthe first copies to this woman
in Massachusetts. And that isintimidating, right? You get
this letter that has this bigposter size copy of the
declaration folded up in it. Shewrites back to him on August 4.
(31:47):
So if you think about a sort oftwo week window that it took for
mail to travel from Philadelphiato Boston, she received his
letter around the middle ofJuly. That's when the news of
the Declaration of Independencereaches Abigail Adams and
everyone else in Boston. So Shethen waited two weeks to write
her response, and yeah, it'scertainly a reflection of
(32:11):
shortages, wartime shortages.Again, Boston is still
recovering from the Britishevacuation, and so she has the
sort of like forms and likethings in her house that could
be used to write a letter, youknow, on the back of it, but
that would be appropriate forlike sending a letter down the
street, a note to someone, notfor sending something to
(32:32):
Philadelphia. And the otherpiece of this letter that's
interesting at the end of it,when she talks about the risk of
it being intercepted, youwouldn't necessarily want a
military commission blank,though it is to be intercepted
by the British. So she's reallybeing thoughtful as she waits
for, you know, a suitable pieceof paper to use. But yet, it's
(32:54):
definitely a reflection of justthe material conditions of this
period of time, and also herawareness of like, the
importance of her correspondent.
Kathryn Gehred (33:04):
That also comes through to me a lot in this
letter, where she she says, I'mloathe that any misinformation
could lead to a false account,because things need to be
transmitted to future ages. Soshe knows that this is a
historical moment, and she knowsthat she's writing with somebody
who's kind of making history,and that she's now a part of it,
and she's really deeply aware ofthat. I think that's
(33:26):
interesting, because, like yousay, with the Declaration of
Independence, they didn't knowwhat the impact was. But it
seems like she is reallyoptimistic that this is going to
be a moment that's reallyimportant.
Emily Sneff (33:37):
Absolutely, this coincides with a moment where
John Adams also realizes thathis papers are going to be
transmitted to future ages, andhe buys a letter book that he
can start to keep an account ofthe letters that he's receiving
and sending. And he tellsAbigail, I wish I could send you
one, because your letters aremuch better than mine. And he
(33:58):
wishes that they could createsome sort of archive. So we're
fortunate as historians to havethe Adams papers as this
resource of what was happeningduring the revolution, and
especially the two sides, right?We typically get the men writing
to their wives, but not thewives responses to their
husbands, which is maddening.And here, you know, we have the
same thing. We have the back andforth with Polly that, you know,
(34:20):
I think she has an awareness,and he has an awareness that
someday someone might read whatshe's writing. And so she wants
to make sure that the actualproduct looks good, that it's
not scratched and, you know,blotted and messy, and it's not
written on the back of somepiece of paper. She wants it to
be on a clean sheet of paper. SoI think that is very relatable.
Kathryn Gehred (34:42):
And also she's imagining future historians
reading this and being like,that's not right, exactly, yeah,
he got that wrong informationfrom this woman, yeah?
Emily Sneff (34:52):
Like you don't want to be a footnote for the wrong
reason, right?
Kathryn Gehred (34:55):
Yeah, incredibly relatable. So it seems like John
Adams, in his response is sortof saying, hey, let's keep up a
correspondence. Would this besomething that's sort of normal
between men and women of thistime?
Emily Sneff (35:08):
It's really interesting because, yeah, he
really wishes that she wouldcontinue to write to him. And,
you know, I think, on the onehand, he just wants as much
information as possible fromBoston all the time. So in her
letter, she gives you know thismilitary information, but also
just updates on his family, herfamily, all of the people that
(35:30):
they know. So I think he, youknow, would appreciate that, but
I think he also admires herwriting style. And in a letter
to Abigail Adams, he complimentsPolly's writing style, and so
you can imagine that helegitimately wanted to keep a
correspondence. And it wasn'tthat unusual, even though she
was, you know, a single woman.She's Abigail's family member.
(35:52):
They're part of this friendgroup. It would not have been
crazy for them to keep up acorrespondence. And John Adams
keeps a correspondence with herfather. So it would have been
easy to enclose, you know, herletters within his letters to
send to Philadelphia, but Pollyis just not interested.
Kathryn Gehred (36:10):
Where she says, like, thank you very much. I'm
very honored. Do you want tohave a correspondence with me?
But you should write your wife.Is that sort of how you take
that section?
Emily Sneff (36:18):
It is, yeah. I mean, you can read it a few
different ways. I think she musthave known, as we all know, that
Kathryn Gehred (36:21):
She was, like, adding to that first letter,
Abigail Adams letters areremarkable, right? She is a very
good writer. She has somespelling things and phraseology
that is really interesting, butshe is detailed and she is
emotional and she just herletters are jam packed with
information, and that's a highstandard, as her friend, I can
(36:41):
imagine Polly Palmer, if sheknows that Abigail is out of
town, then she knows thatthere's going to be this gap
like, for such a long time,trying to make sure it's all
that she is trying to fill, butshe also feels inadequate to do
that job. So I think she'sspeaking from a place of not
wanting to commit herself tokeeping a correspondence, and
also probably just the stress ofhaving to correspond with John
(37:02):
Adams, right? Like, she alreadywaited two weeks to try to find
right.
a clean piece of paper to writeto him. You can just imagine that.
Emily Sneff (37:06):
Trying to make sure that she has as much in there as
possible. Like, there isdefinitely anxiety baked into
her writing, and so I don'tthink that she really wanted to
commit herself to continuing tocorrespond. And I feel bad
(37:30):
because, like, I would love tohave more letters of hers to
read and get her account of thethings that were happening
around her, but at least we havethis one from such an important
moment of receiving theDeclaration of Independence,
like if you were going to pick amoment to have correspondence,
this is the moment to pick. So,yeah, it's unfortunate that she
didn't keep a correspondencewith John. She did write a
(37:51):
little bit with Abigail whileJohn and Abigail were in Europe
during his diplomatic career.And those letters, you know,
they're from a decade later, andher health has seriously
declined by then, in part due toher nervous condition
persisting. And those lettersare honestly really sad, because
(38:11):
Abigail is describing all thesewonders that she's seeing in
France and saying, I wish youcould come to Paris like I wish
you could see all of thesethings. And Polly, again, takes
a really long time to respond,not because of a lack of paper,
but because she just can't gether words on paper. So something
(38:31):
like mentally is blocking herfrom writing, and she's
reflecting and saying, I'mprobably never going to see the
things that you're seeing, butI'm grateful for you telling me
about them. You know, I couldnever make a journey across the
Atlantic, but at least my frienddid, and she can tell me about
it. So it's reallyheartbreaking, this dissent from
(38:52):
sort of feeling like, oh, Idon't know if I can write to
someone in Congress, to feelinglike I'm never going to have the
experiences that my friends arehaving, you know, it's really
sad.
Kathryn Gehred (39:02):
Yeah, did she keep up any kind of
correspondence with John Adamsafter this?
Emily Sneff (39:07):
There's one more letter in the Adams papers from
when he's preparing to go bevice president, and she's
helping with this library. And,you know, I have to imagine that
most of their friendship tookplace in person. So just because
there's a 12 year gap in thearchive of the Adams papers
doesn't mean that they didn'ttalk to each other for 12 years.
(39:29):
But that letter is reallyinteresting, because she is
helping out with this process ofcataloging all of his books and
figuring out which books hewants to take with him. So
again, she must be educated,right? She must have a love of
reading herself, because she'sunderstanding sort of what books
are necessary for this newpolitical office that he's
taking on. And I love thatletter because there was a book
(39:51):
that the two of them were tryingto find and they couldn't find
it on the shelves of thelibrary. And after John leaves,
she finds it, and so she says. Ifound this book, and it'll be
part of your library unless thefairy that took it away comes
back. She still has thisplayfulness to her. You can tell
that they had a sort ofaffectionate friendship in
(40:13):
person, even though it's notrecorded in more than these
handful of letters.
Kathryn Gehred (40:18):
I think that's really important to point out,
because we depend so much onthese paper written sources as
historians. But I used to workon the Martha Washington papers,
and there's almost no lettersbetween her and, you know, her
mom and her father and some ofher siblings. That's because
they were talking to each otherconstantly every day. There's
almost no letters. And that'sone of the most important
personal relationships that shehad. But then with somebody who,
(40:39):
like, maybe you sort of have tokeep up a correspondence with
there might be more letters fromsomeone. You have to really
think about these humanrelationships sometimes.
Emily Sneff (40:46):
Yeah and you know, we have the best Abigail Adams
letters from the times when sheand John were apart, and that
doesn't mean that they didn'thave really deep conversations
about politics and women'seducation and all these things
in person, we just happen tohave the records of it from when
they were at a great distance.And you know, there's a lot of
other emotions that are part ofthose letters, too. It's easy to
(41:09):
just kind of assume limitationson a relationship because of
what survives, but there'sdefinitely much more there that
didn't survive.
Kathryn Gehred (41:18):
It's interesting that she's worried about her
letter being taken by theBritish. Tell me a little more
about that.
Emily Sneff (41:22):
So this is really interesting, because since it
took her so long to write herresponse, the war has changed.
So at the time that John waswriting to her on July 5 and
enclosing a copy of theDeclaration of Independence for
her, the British ships were juststarting to assemble at Staten
Island over the course of acouple of days, have started to
(41:43):
assemble in another reallyinteresting moment of timing, of
like, what if they had comebefore the Declaration of
Independence? So by the timethat she's writing in August,
there is a real like, minute byminute threat of a British
attack on New York. And New Yorkis obviously right in the middle
between Boston and Philadelphia.So she is worried that this
(42:05):
increased British presence atNew York will mean that whatever
networks John is using to getcorrespondence to Boston are
going to be interrupted. And youknow, this is a concern that
Abigail Adams and other peoplein Boston have as well, that
Boston is going to beeffectively cut off from
Philadelphia by what's happeningin New York. So whereas her
(42:27):
first letter in June of 1776before any British ships had
arrived, she signs it with hername. In this August letter, she
uses her pseudonym, and on theone hand, it's kind of reaching
back into their younger times offriendship when they use these
pseudonyms in a sort of playfulway, but the same way that
Abigail Adams chooses to writeunder a pseudonym to her
(42:48):
husband, there's this realawareness of the political
stakes of writing to someonelike John Adams, so she
recognizes that even if theBritish intercepted it, they
wouldn't get that muchinformation out of her. She's
not sending political secrets oranything, but she is giving her
account of what she thinks ofindependence. And that is pretty
remarkable. So there weredefinitely concerns, and
(43:11):
ultimately, some of John Adams'correspondence is intercepted by
the British. So they were notunfounded concerns, and it's
really interesting to see themreflected on the page.
Kathryn Gehred (43:21):
I feel like she threw a couple little digs at
the Tories and, like, just incase she did.
Emily Sneff (43:26):
Yeah. I mean, we think of Massachusetts as being
this sort of, you know, radicalpart of the colonies turned
states. You know, Massachusettsdragging the rest of the states
toward independence, but therecertainly were still loyalists
in Boston. Many of them hadevacuated with the British in
March of 1776 but there arestill Tories around. And so she
(43:48):
can tell John, this is whateveryone that we agree with
thinks about the Declaration ofIndependence. I don't know what
the Tories think. They haven'tsaid anything yet. You know, I
think that's really interestingperspective that, like she
understands that the majority ofpeople are excited about
independence, and she certainlyis, but there are still kind of
enemies within neighbors whodon't agree with this decision.
Kathryn Gehred (44:10):
Yeah. So what strikes you as important about
the way she receives the gift ofthe Declaration of independency,
as she calls it?
Emily Sneff (44:18):
There are a couple things that make this letter
really remarkable. The first isthat despite doing a lot of
research, I've only been able tofind three accounts of women in
their own words reacting to theDeclaration of Independence in
1776 and all three of thosewomen are in Massachusetts. So
it's it's a very skewed samplesize, unfortunately. One is
(44:41):
Polly Palmer. The other isprobably obvious. It's Abigail
Adams reacting multiple timesbecause she receives a copy from
John and she attends a publicreading, and then she hears it
read again in her church inAugust. So we have these
different moments of reception.And then the third one is from a
teenage. Her name's KeziaCoffin, who was on the island of
(45:03):
Nantucket. She kept a diary, andwhen the declaration is brought
over to Nantucket, she writes inher diary that it was horrible,
and she wished that theContinental Congress and all of
their supporters had been strung50 feet in the air before they
had been allowed to issue thisdeclaration.
Kathryn Gehred (45:20):
Strong words
Emily Sneff (45:21):
Yeah, at least I have one Tory perspective. And
also, you know, all three ofthese women, they understand the
politics that are happeningaround them, which is really
awesome to see, but that's it.So Polly Palmer's letter stands
out, and it's kind of beenforgotten, because her copy of
Declaration of Independence, toour knowledge, does not survive.
So the letter that John Adamssent on July 5 of 1776 in
(45:45):
closing, the declaration becamea collectible. It was collected
by someone who was interested inhis autograph, more than the
content of the letter or therecipient. So we don't know if
the copy of the declaration wassomething that Polly held on to
or something that sheimmediately handed over to her
father or shared with hercommunity. But to our knowledge,
(46:06):
it doesn't survive. And from myperspective, that doesn't mean
that the story doesn't need tobe told. Right? We tend to
prioritize and emphasize theSelect copies of the declaration
that survive and are valued atmillions of dollars, and, you
know, highly prized. But thereare also sort of gaps in the
archives that are worthexploring and thinking about how
(46:29):
Polly Palmer became separatedfrom the declaration that she
received. I think herexplanation of how she feels
about the declaration is reallyinteresting, too. It's different
than the other accounts that wehave. And I think it reflects a
sort of relief of, you know,knowing that, in John Adams
words, that blue skies, youknow, clear skies, are going to
(46:52):
come over Boston, that there'sgoing to be this hopefulness.
And I love her phrasing of like,it's happy, it's a happy
revolution, right? Independenceis a happy thing. She also
though thinking about thegendered language here. She
talks about how the declarationis going to be remembered for
generations to come. She knowsthat John Adams is involved in
the process. She may not knowexactly that he was helping to
(47:14):
draft it, but she knows thathe's part of the Congress. And
she talks about how it's goingto be to the esteem of patriots,
and she uses masculine pronouns,so she's not counting herself as
a patriot. She's talking aboutJohn Adams and his colleagues as
the patriots who are going to beremembered by generations of
Americans to come. And that'skind of sad, because she clearly
(47:35):
has a grasp on the importance ofthe moment that she's living
through these unprecedentedtimes, but she doesn't think
she's going to be remembered. Sopart of my work of really
writing about her and focusingon this letter is to show she is
worthy of being rememberedalongside John Adams, and you
know, the people who signed thedeclaration that, like her,
reception of the news ofindependence is important, and
(47:58):
she shouldn't just be poor atPolly. She shouldn't be a
footnote. She should really besomeone that we look to as an
example of what it was like tolearn about the Declaration of
Independence for the first time.
Kathryn Gehred (48:10):
That's awesome. And look at us 250, years later.
Emily Sneff (48:14):
Yeah!
Kathryn Gehred (48:14):
Who would have thought
Emily Sneff (48:15):
Women lifting up women, right?
Kathryn Gehred (48:17):
Yeah, so you're sort of dragging Polly kicking
and screaming back into thehistorical narrative, but she
deserves it.
Emily Sneff (48:23):
She did not want to be a historiographer. She didn't
want to keep up acorrespondence, but her letter
is remembered, or at least it'sgoing to be remembered by me.
Kathryn Gehred (48:31):
Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Well, Emily, thank you
so much for coming on the show.This was such a fascinating and
enlightening conversation.
Emily Sneff (48:39):
Oh I'm so glad. I'm really glad that we were able to
highlight this letter and Pollyand prepare for the 250 by
talking about women writingabout the declaration.
Kathryn Gehred (48:49):
Yeah, write on! To my listeners, thank you very
much for tuning into the show. Iwill link to the letters that we
talked about in our show notes,and as ever, I am your most
obedient and humble servant.Thank you very much.
(49:09):
Your Most Obedient & HumbleServant is a production of R2
Studios, part of the RoyRosenzweig Center for History
and New Media at George MasonUniversity. I'm Kathryn Gehred
the creator and host of thispodcast. Jeanette Patrick and
Jim Ambuske are the executiveproducers. Special thanks to
(49:33):
Virginia Humanities for allowingme to use their recording
studio. If you enjoyed thisepisode, please tell a friend
and be sure to rate and reviewthe series in your podcast app.
For more great history podcasts,head to R2studios.org. Thanks
for listening!
Hello and welcome to Your Most Obedient &
Humble Servant. This is awomen's history podcast where we
feature 18th and early 19thcentury letters that don't get
as much attention as we thinkthey should. I am your host
Kathryn Gehred. Today I amthrilled to welcome Dr. Emily
Sneff to the podcast. Emily is ahistorian of early America and a
(00:24):
leading expert on the UnitedStates Declaration of
Independence. She is currently aconsulting curator for the
semiquincentennial of theDeclaration of Independence with
the Museum of the AmericanRevolution, the American
Philosophical Society, andHistoric Trap. Welcome to the
podcast, Emily.
Emily Sneff (00:40):
Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
Kathryn Gehred (00:42):
We're really excited to have you. So you have
a book that's going to be comingout next year, right? Can you
tell me a little bit about it?
Emily Sneff (00:48):
I do, yeah, it's going to be with Oxford
University Press sometime inearly 2026 and it's about the
Declaration of Independence in1776 so how the news initially
spread around the Atlantic, andthe reactions to it and the sort
of diplomatic and militarystories that we often overlook
(01:09):
because we forget that there wasa moment where no one knew if
independence was actually goingto be secured. So it's really
interesting to think about thecontingencies and the sort of
different emotions associatedwith the declaration in 1776
when no one knew that we'd stillbe here 250 years later.
Kathryn Gehred (01:27):
That's super fascinating. I used to be a tour
guide at Thomas Jefferson'sMonticello, and so you start to
hear things about, like theDunlap broadside and like
different versions that stillexist as, sort of like
collectors editions of theDeclaration of Independence, and
there's this, like whole sort ofworld surrounding it that I've
always thought was reallyinteresting, and you'd never
know when you're giving a tourif somebody was going to know a
(01:48):
ton about it or have no idea.
Emily Sneff (01:50):
Like me, I tried, when I last toured Monticello, I
tried to hang back and notreally comment on anything, but
my parents were looking at melike, you know about that, don't
you?
Kathryn Gehred (02:00):
If you get a guest that knows a ton, it can
be wonderful or it can beterrible. Yeah, that's awesome.
What sparked your interest inthe Declaration of Independence?
Emily Sneff (02:07):
So I kind of backed my way into early American
history. I studied medievalhistory and museum studies in my
undergraduate time at JohnsHopkins, and I was coming into
the museum world at a time wherethere were not a lot of jobs. So
I was volunteering and justtrying to get as much experience
as possible. And I ended uphelping out at the American
(02:28):
Philosophical Society on aresearch project about their
bust of Thomas Jefferson by JeanAntoine Houdon. And I knew
nothing about Jefferson, knewnothing about the founding era,
and just kind of startedresearching, ended up helping
out with a series of exhibitionsthat they were doing on
Jefferson. And the first one wasabout Jefferson and the
(02:49):
declaration. And the APS has areally phenomenal collection of
unique copies of the Declarationof Independence. So I started
realizing, like this thing, thatI thought we knew everything
about the founding document ofthe United States early in
American history. Actually,there's still a lot to do, still
a lot to uncover, and that was10 years ago, and now I'm here,
(03:12):
so yeah, it's been a reallyinteresting trajectory. And I'm
from Philadelphia originally.It's a great place to, you know,
study the declaration and tothink about the Declaration's
impact. So I'm always walkingpast Independence Hall and just
kind of, you know, soaking allof the history behind this
document in but also trying tomake it approachable for people
who do not live here and may nothave as close of a connection to
(03:34):
the founding era as I have sortof developed over the last 10
years.
Kathryn Gehred (03:38):
Cool. Do you have a favorite edition of the
Declaration of Independence?
Emily Sneff (03:42):
I have favorite editions of the declaration for
like design purposes or becausethey were owned by a particular
person, but I also have copiesthat really frustrate me. So
there's one copy that has, likehaunted me for literally 10
years at this point at theAmerican Philosophical Society,
and it's a broadside printed byJohn Dunlap on parchment. And it
(04:05):
seems as though it was printedafter he did his sort of initial
batch of hundreds of copies onthe night of July 4 into July 5.
But this is on parchment, andit's a different type setting,
and over the course ofresearching and coming back to
it and stepping away from it. Istill have not been able to
solve the mystery of why exactlyhe created this copy. And the
(04:26):
added wrinkle is it ended up inthe hands of David Rittenhouse
and was given to the AmericanPhilosophical Society after his
death. And I descended fromDavid Rittenhouse's sister.
Kathryn Gehred (04:40):
Oh!
Emily Sneff (04:41):
So I have this personal connection too, that
makes it even more aggravatingthat I can't figure out why
exactly this copy was printed,what its purpose was. So maybe
someday I'll solve that mystery.
Kathryn Gehred (04:52):
Uncle David help us out!
Emily Sneff (04:53):
I know you would think like telepathically, I
might be able to have some sortof seance and figure out.
Exactly this copy existed, butno.
Kathryn Gehred (05:02):
Oh, that's fascinating. So with all of your
decade of research into this,what's something that you wish
more people understood about theDeclaration of Independence?
Emily Sneff (05:11):
I always encourage people just read the Declaration
of Independence, because I thinka lot of Americans, but also
people around the world, becausethe declaration has had such,
you know, a huge impact inlegacy. They think they know
what's in the Declaration ofIndependence, but every time I
read it, and I'm, you know, inthe thousands of times at this
point, I noticed something thatI hadn't noticed before. And it
(05:34):
can seem as if it's anantiquated document. It can seem
as though the grievances againstKing George III have no relation
to modern life, but when youread the declaration, you'll
find things that you can relateto. And I think, as we approach
the 250 and hopefully, a lot ofpublic readings of the
declaration and sort ofcelebrations, but also critiques
(05:54):
of it, people will pay attentionto the text. It's only 1300
words. It doesn't take you thatlong to read it. So that's what
I encourage people to do.
Kathryn Gehred (06:02):
Thats awesome. One of my favorite ways to
celebrate the Fourth of July isto, like, attend a public
reading of the Declaration ofIndependence, because that is
the type of nerd that I am.
Emily Sneff (06:10):
That's a good type of nerd.
Kathryn Gehred (06:11):
And then also, it's really powerful to read
that alongside the FrederickDouglass What to a Slave is the
Declaration of Independence inthe Fourth of July?
Emily Sneff (06:19):
Absolutely,
Kathryn Gehred (06:20):
I just always find that really meaningful to
think about.
Emily Sneff (06:23):
Yeah for the exhibit that I've been working
on with the Museum of theAmerican Revolution, I've become
more familiar with these otherdeclarations and sort of
commentaries that came later. SoI knew about the Declaration of
Sentiments in 1848 I didn't knowabout the 1876 Women's
Declaration of Rights that theyactuallyinterrupted the
celebration at Independence Hallon July 4, 1876 to present their
(06:46):
declaration. So there's so manydocuments out there that, like,
if you pair them up, either youknow, for your own personal
interest or with students, it'sreally effective to kind of get
a sense of where the languagefalls short, or where it sets
out promises that people comeback to generations later. So
definitely, studying thedeclaration in context is
(07:07):
important.
Kathryn Gehred (07:08):
Thank you. That's, I think, a great setup.
Today we're going to be talkingabout a letter that talks about
one of these early prints of theDeclaration of Independence. I'm
really excited. I had not heardof this before you sent it to
me, and I just thought it wassuper fascinating.
Emily Sneff (07:21):
Oh, great.
Kathryn Gehred (07:21):
Today, we're going to look at a letter from
Mary, mostly called Polly Palmerto John Adams, written in
Germantown, Massachusetts, onAugust 4, 1776 so to sort of set
up the context, who was PollyPalmer?
Emily Sneff (07:36):
Polly Palmer was born in 1746 so she would have
been 30 years old in 1776Unfortunately, she died in 1791
so she had a really short life.She was the daughter of Joseph
Palmer and Mary Cranch, and ifyou can follow the family tree,
Mary Cranche's brother wasRichard Cranch, who was married
(07:56):
to Mary Smith, whose sister wasAbigail Smith, who was married
to John Adams. So they are allrelated. You know, sort of kins
woman of the Adams. Polly's areally fascinating person,
because we have very few kind ofrecords of what her life was
like. We have an account fromher grand niece that sort of
(08:18):
records what her later life waslike, and then we have a handful
of letters, but as far as we cantell, when she was a young
woman, she was vivacious, shewas like, everyone's favorite
person. She was super smart. Shewould ride into town. They lived
in Germantown, outside ofBoston, and she would ride into
Boston to chat up her father'sbusiness associates and come
(08:42):
back, you know, after the sunhad set, and her mother was so
worried about her riding on herown, like, you can just get a
sense of like she had a reallyfascinating personality and a
lot of potential. And when shewas 19, so that was in 1765, she
suffered from a nervousdisorder. The story is that her
father was bragging about howawesome she was to a friend of
(09:05):
his, and, you know, said shewasn't scared of anything. And
this friend said, Okay, let'stest that, and fired a gun above
her head while she was sort ofnapping. And from that moment,
she suffered from seizures. Andher health, both physical and
mental health, declinedthroughout the rest of her life.
(09:26):
So it's really as this had storyof someone who, you know, we can
tell was a really bigpersonality who starts to kind
of shrivel up, according to theletters that survive after this
moment at such a young age. Soultimately, she doesn't marry,
she doesn't have children, shestays with family members the
rest of her life, and she'sremembered by her grandniece as
(09:47):
sort of poor aunt, Polly, whichis really quite sad. So I love
that, talking about this letterin particular, we get a sense of
how she still had agency in herlife, and how she still was a
dynamic person, even if. Oneelse sort of remembered her in a
different way.
Kathryn Gehred (10:03):
That's like, just trying to think of, like,
why you would shoot a gun oversomebody's head. Like, that's
messed up.
Emily Sneff (10:08):
It's really, you know, it's tragic, yeah, the
story of the family is that herfather was devastated by the
role that he played in this so,yeah, it's really unfortunate.
How did you first learn aboutPolly? So I first came across
Polly Palmer in the fall of2020. I had just finished my
graduate exams in the pandemic,not really sure when I would be
(10:31):
able to do research for this bigtransatlantic project that I had
in mind. I was grieving the lossof my father. I was just like
facing a lot of uncertainty,and, you know, studying the
Declaration of Independence, youhave people like Thomas
Jefferson and John Adams who arehard to relate to. And I came
across this 30 year old singlewoman as a 30 year old single
(10:53):
woman myself facing similaruncertainty, right? Like, not
that we can exactly compare thepandemic to the Revolutionary
War, but a similar state of,like, not really knowing what
comes next, being worried aboutyour physical safety, your
family's health. So I justimmediately was like, Okay, now
I get this perspective, like Ifinally have someone that I can
connect with. So I felt a realkinship with her, so much so
(11:17):
that literally, the first linesof my dissertation that I wrote
were about her, because I justhad the spark of an idea that I
can actually relate to thisperson. And she also sums up
really well the thesis of bothmy book project and sort of my
approach to the declaration ingeneral, which is there's a much
more expansive history of thefounding of the United States
(11:39):
out there, if we step outside ofIndependence Hall and we think
about where the declaration wentand the people who received that
news and lived through thismoment, rather than just
focusing on the men who draftedand debated and signed the
Declaration, like John Adams.
Kathryn Gehred (11:54):
Yeah, you've mentioned that she's related to
Emily Sneff (11:54):
They had a really interesting friendship that
John Adams through the Cranches,but what was her relationship
like with John Adams?
lasted through the end of herlife when they were young,
before she had this nervousdisorder, they were actually
inoculated for smallpox at thesame time in Boston. But there's
(12:16):
this really interesting sort ofmoment where all of their
friends and sort of familymembers kind of hole up together
and go through inoculation.Abigail is not involved, because
her parents were worried abouther being inoculated, but John
and Polly and other friends gothrough inoculation together,
and it's a bonding experience.And the letters from that time
are some of the clues of whather life was like after she and
(12:40):
John were both feeling better.The worst symptoms had subsided.
They used a wagon and drove allaround town to get fresh air.
And it's really, it's lovely tothink about. So she was part of
this friend group, and they allused pseudonyms. So she used the
pseudonym Myra, another friend,Eunice Payne, used the synonym
of Sylvia, and they wrote theseletters back and forth to each
(13:02):
other. So she was certainlyfriends with John Adams from
when she was young through allof his political career. And
actually, the last letter thatwe have of hers is from the time
when he is preparing his libraryto actually move to his new
office as Vice President of theUnited States, and she's helping
to catalog his library. She'sliving in the Adams home at that
(13:24):
time, so there's only snippetsalong the way of her connection
to both John and Abigail Adamsin the Adams papers. But they
certainly were friends. Theywere not just acquaintances or
neighbors. They were friends.
Kathryn Gehred (13:38):
There's a historical fiction novel that I
read called Octavia Nothing.There's a whole section in that
book that's about a smallpoxparty where they, like, invite
everybody to a house and theygive everybody smallpox at the
same time. It doesn't sound likethat's exactly what happened
here. Just reading about thatdid make me think about, you
know, it's scary to beinoculated back then and to go
(13:58):
through this like, hopefullygentler version of the sickness.
I can imagine that would reallycreate a bond between people who
all went through that together.
Emily Sneff (14:04):
I think so, yeah, and we can tell even like
Abigail feels really left out,like she's worried about her
fiance going throughinoculation, she's, you know,
worried for his physical health,but she also feels jealous that
he's spending this time with herfriends And she's not there. So
you tend to forget how youngthese people were. You know,
(14:24):
when we put them up on apedestal, we forget that they
are young. And you know, you canimagine a young Abigail Smith at
that time being like man I haveFOMO!
Kathryn Gehred (14:37):
John Adams is not my area of expertise, but I
just imagine him a lot as PaulGiamatti in the the mini series,
a young Paul Giamatti hangingout with smallpox, a little bit
of setup of their relationship.This letter is from fourth
August, 1776 most people have ageneral idea of what John Adams
is doing in August of 1776 whatsort of is. Going on in his
(15:00):
life. Where's he? What's thecontext for John Adams? John
Adams
Emily Sneff (15:04):
is still in Philadelphia, and at this point,
he has found out that his wifeand children are being
inoculated for smallpox. ButAbigail had made the decision to
inoculate her children, adecision that her parents didn't
feel comfortable with for hershe made for her children during
the small window wheninoculation was allowed in
Boston. But she didn't want Johnto find out, because she knew
(15:27):
that he was working onIndependence and the Articles of
Confederation and foreigntreaties and being the chair of
the board of war like he has alot going on. So she tried to
keep that secret from him. Hefound out anyway, and became
distraught. We're in this sortof month of time where he does
not know what's going on inBoston. He, you know, has sort
(15:48):
of a sense from letters thathe's getting from different
people, including from Polly,but he is worried about his
family, and so I think the backand forth that he and Polly
Palmer have it spread out overthe course of a couple of
months, just because of the paceof mail, and as we'll talk
about, the shortage of paper.But you can imagine that when he
did receive this letter thatwe're going to talk about it at
(16:11):
least brought him a little bitof calm to get some news from
Boston at this time, when he wasreally worried because he was so
busy in Philadelphia, but hereally did want to be in Boston
with his family. And what'sgoing on in Polly's life. It's
hard to read between the linesand get a sense of exactly what
was going on in her life the waythat we can when someone like
John Adams, whose dailymovements are pretty well
(16:31):
recorded, but she had just madeit through the British
occupation of Boston, she andher family lived in Germantown,
which is outside of Boston, sothey would have been able to see
and hear everything that washappening during the battles
from Lexington and Concordthrough to Bunker Hill,
everything that was happening inthe harbor. And it would have
been a really hard year toexperience that, to know what
(16:55):
was happening with yourneighbors after the evacuation
of Boston that was immediatelyfollowed by this smallpox
outbreak that leads to massinoculations to try to curb it,
so she was safe from that. Butobviously, at the time of a lot
of people moving in and out anduncertainty, her father was
helping with the militia. Sothere's a sort of military
energy in her household. So youcan imagine that it was pretty
(17:19):
busy. There was a lot happeningaround you, but also still a lot
of uncertainty, not reallyknowing what was going to happen
next. I imagine, for somebodywho has a little bit of trauma
surrounding gunfire, to suddenlybe in a city that you can hear
cannons and things like that,probably wasn't great for her,
absolutely. Yeah, that was myfirst impression when I when I
really started to sit with theseletters between Polly Palmer and
(17:40):
John Adams, and think about thisnervous condition that she had.
You don't want to diagnosemedical conditions of the past,
but I have to imagine that therewas some sort of PTSD involved.
And you can kind of tell not inthese letters, though she does
talk about gunfire and actionhappening in the harbor, but in
other letters that she wrote tofriends, she talks about being
scared of thunder, and I have toimagine that it was really
(18:04):
challenging for her, and it maynot have been something that she
felt comfortable sharing withJohn, but surely her family knew
that it was hard for her to livethrough this occupation.
Kathryn Gehred (18:15):
Any other sort of final context you want to
share before we jump in?
Emily Sneff (18:18):
No, I think that's good.
Kathryn Gehred (18:19):
And now for the letter.
Her writing style is so good. Ilove that she signs with Myra as
Mary Palmer to John Adams,Germantown, 4 August 1776 Sir,
I had the honour of your letterof the 5th July above a
fortnight ago, and should muchsooner have acknowledged the
favor had not an absolute wantof Paper prevented, having none
(18:40):
but blank Commissions in theHouse which we used for little
Billets, but wou’d not do tosend to the Congress. You do me
great honor in receiving myAccount of the Evacuation of the
Harbour so well. I am sensibleit was very imperfect, but it
was the best I cou’d do at thetime from my informations. One
thing I think I greatly err’din, which was that the Ships did
not return the fire upon LongIsland, which I am since
(19:02):
inform’d they did by those whowere Eye Witnesses. I shou’d not
have mention’d it now, but thatI am loth that any
misinformation of mind shou’dlead to a false Account of a
Fact which ought to berepresented as it really was,
and transmitted to future ages.Your Compliments are sufficient
to make one vain, but still Imake Allowances for the
Privilege the Gentlemen assumeof “flattering the other sex a
(19:22):
you've set up as their theirsort of nicknames from back in
little.” And perhaps it may betho’t necessary sometimes in
order to ease us of that BashfulDiffidence so natural to most of
us—A Plea for Flattering which Ithink the Gentlemen much oblig’d
me for. You really make me proudby desiring my future
Correspondance, and I will notin hopes of being again ask’d
decline the favour. All I shallsay is this, that whenever there
(19:45):
is any event of a Public Naturehappens of which I can give you
a proper Account to the best ofmy Abilities, it will give me
pleasure to do it; but atpresent there seems little
Likelihood of any such in theseparts but what will be better
told by your good Lady, to whomI shall cheerfully resign the
Pen on her Recovery from theSmall Pox. There is nothing
gives Papa much more Concernthan his not being able to get
(20:07):
time to write to You and Mr.Paine, oftener than he does; It
is impossible for one Man to domore than he does, his time is
wholly bestow’d on the Publick,both by Day and Night; It is but
3 Days in 2 Years that he hasbeen at Home on his private
the day. So she mentions thatshe sent him an account of the
Affairs, and even part of those3 days have been employed either
in writing Expresses or PlanningForts. Few Gentlemen cou’d say
(20:30):
the same. He is now the chiefCommander at Hull in the Room of
Genll. Lincoln who isinoculated, and very busy every
Hour he can steal from Businessor Sleep in Planning
Fortifications and Salt Works. Iam sorry the former are still
wanted in our Harbour but everyBody is not so Active as Papa,
if they were they wou’d not beto be Plannd now. I most
(20:51):
sincerely thank you for yourPresent of the Declaration of
Independancy; nothing cou’d havegiven me more pleasure. It was
universally receive’d with Joyby the friends of their Country.
I don’t know what the Toriesthink but I believe they say
nothing. As this is a veryimportant, so I hope it may be a
very happy Revolution and thatthe latest Posterity may have
(21:12):
Reason to look back to the Year1776, as the happy Era of their
Liberties being secur’d by theWisdom of the Congress. How
evacuation of the harbor. Canyou tell me a little more about that?
pleasing is the reflexion ofevery true Patriot to be assur’d
of having done his duty to hisGod and Country and of having
his Memory rever’d by hisDescendants and Countrymen to
the End of Time. The first ofthis Month was kept as a Day of
(21:34):
Fasting and Prayer by thisColony. I hope that our repeated
Petitions to the Throne of Gracewill be Accepted, and that our
unnatural Enemies may be turnedfrom us. I can say little of
your family, only that we hearthey are Comfortable. Ours is
pretty well, except Miss Painewho has an ill turn, occasion’d
by overdoing herself at WorkYesterday. I hope it won’t last
(21:55):
long but at present she is veryill. As I don’t know but my
Letter may find the Way toStaten Island You will excuse my
not butting my name to it anyfurther than that of your humble
Servt., Myra
Emily Sneff (22:24):
Yeah, on June 15, she writes this letter to John
Adams, and I love how shestarts, because if you know that
they're friends, that theirrelationship pre exists this
moment, this is such an awkwardsentence to start a letter with.
She says, you will wonder atreceiving a letter from one who
is very far from beingsufficiently qualified to write
to a member of the grandCongress, but I am under
(22:46):
parental injunctions to do it,which every good child ought to
obey. That is such an awkwardopening line. It's as if they
have never met, never spoken.But, I mean, she's basically
just saying, like, I recognizethat we are no longer, you know,
just hanging out as friends uphere in Massachusetts, you're
serving in the ContinentalCongress in Philadelphia. And
(23:08):
clearly, her father had wantedto send an account to John
Adams, and didn't have the timeto do so, so she writes one for
him. And basically, if you thinkabout this moment the British
had evacuated in March of 1776so now we're in June, and the
harbor is still not completelysecured. So most of the
(23:30):
Continental Army had left Bostonand gone to New York to prepare
for a likely British attackthere. But Boston is sort of
still in this kind of transitorymoment. So Polly's father is
involved in the fortificationsthat are being developed for the
city with this sort of smallercontingent of the Continental
(23:52):
Army that's also kind ofprotecting this important harbor
from any British ships comingback. So Polly writes a letter
on June 15 to John Adams, andshe describes a sort of
confrontation between ships inthe harbor. And she does a
really good job of recounting,kind of hour by hour, what was
(24:13):
happening. And it seems like shewrote the bulk of the letter and
then added to it as she got moreinformation, but also as she was
waiting for an opportunity tosend it. So she addressed this
letter to John Adams. She signedit Polly Palmer. Then she added
some information that she hadgotten from her father, exact
numbers of you know, thedifferent militia groups that
(24:36):
were involved in the locations.And then she adds another note
the following day, adding moreinformation. And so this is a
letter that she kept adding tobut the whole time, she has this
sort of energy that we see inher August letter as well. Of
like, I don't quite know if I'mqualified to do this, to give
you this information, so it'sreally hedging and anxious. And
(24:58):
you know, to the best of my.Knowledge to the best of the
information that I have, this iswhat I'm giving you, but that's
the account that she sends. Andgiven the timing of mail at this
moment, John Adams would havereceived this June 15 letter
around July 1, which is when theContinental Congress resumes its
debate on whether or not todeclare independence. So busy
(25:20):
week, but he ends up receivingthis account, as well as a
couple of others, and he is gladto know again, what's happening
in Boston, and both on apersonal level, but also in his
position on the board of war,thinking about, how can we
fortify Boston? How can we makesure that the city is not at
greater risk than it needs to begiven all the other places that
(25:43):
the Continental Army needs to beat this time?
Kathryn Gehred (25:45):
I fell like that's really significant for,
like, the history of gender inthe American Revolution,
particularly of white women andgender of the revolution.
Because she's doing an importantjob. She's passing along a
military correspondence, butshe's acknowledging, I actually
find that relatable, of herbeing like, I am giving you
important military information,and this is not my job. I'm so
(26:05):
sorry if I mess this up. I'mdoing my best. This is not what
I signed up for, exactly, buther dad trusts her enough. Okay,
I'm too busy to do this. You dothis, and then she does a good
job.
Emily Sneff (26:17):
She does! John Adams tells Abigail that Polly
Palmer gave him a more accurateaccount than anyone else. So we
know that she did a good job ofthis, even though she feels like
she needs to correct thenumbers. She doesn't want any
decisions to be made on a falseaccount that she accidentally
gave. But yeah, she does a goodjob, and her reason for writing
it beyond her father probablyasking her to do so is Abigail
(26:41):
Adams, who's typically inBraintree with her children on
their farm, was in Plymouth thatweek, so she was close enough to
the Adams family that she knewthat Abigail was away and that
no one would be writing to JohnAdams. So she has an awareness
of communication networks, andeven though she does not feel
qualified to do this, and, youknow, maybe hasn't written to
(27:03):
him before. Maybe has only kindof been in conversation with him
in person, and their friendshiphas existed sort of face to
face. She feels like I have todo this. I have to write this
letter to the grand Congress.So, yeah, really intimidating.
Kathryn Gehred (27:17):
What did John think of the information that he
got when he got this veryapologetic opening letter.
Emily Sneff (27:21):
So John Adams receives this letter the first
week of July. Obviously he'salso voting to declare
independence from Great Britain,and his letters from this week
are very well known. He writestwo letters to Abigail Adams
that are really well known forthe way that he talks about how
the Fourth of July, he thinksit's the second of July, but how
Independence Day is going to beremembered by generations to
(27:42):
come. So he is on a roll withhis letter writing this week,
and on July 5, he writes toPolly to thank her for this
account that he thought wasreally well done, explaining
exactly what had happened inBoston Harbor. And he says,
You've given me, notwithstandingall your modest apologies, an
account that was written withelegance and to minute and
(28:05):
circumstantial narration of whathappened in the harbor. I always
say that John Adams uses alovingly condescending tone to
the women in his life. He doesso with Abigail, and he does so
with Polly. And in this letterthat he writes on July 5, he
says, in times as turbulent asthese, commend me to the ladies.
For historiographers, thegentlemen are too much engaged
(28:27):
in action. The ladies are coolerspectators and fine. The men are
busy. The women need to step upand do the writing. Okay? But I
think what he's really saying isthat the people involved in the
action are almost too close toit. And so a woman like Polly,
who is informed and educated andconnected to the people who have
(28:50):
the information that he needs,can write an account that's more
of a sort of history of what washappening. And so she did a good
job of that, and he kind oftreats her as if this is
something that she couldcontinue to do.
We can ask Mercy Otis Warren what she thinks
Kathryn Gehred (29:03):
I'm just going to jump in and say I do believe
that women are better at historythan men. I'll go on record and
say that that's my belief andthat John Adams backs me up.
about that.
Yeah, it's exactly like you say.He's being a little
condescending. I know that thisis just the way people wrote
letters back then, but hisletter feels a little bit flirty
(29:26):
to me, the way he's writing toher, like, Oh, you did such a
nice job.
He does, yeah, he addresses itMiss Polly, which I think is
cute, but it also confirms thatthat's, you know, what her
friends called her, if you thinkof how his week was going, right
that he is exhausted andrelieved at finally having
declared independence andapproved the Declaration of
(29:48):
Independence and been part ofthat process, and he's starting
to work on a new seal for theUnited States, and he's
preparing for an attack on NewYork, like he has a lot going
on, and yet he takes the time towrite a pretty lengthy. Letter
to his friend, complimentingher. And you can tell that he
has this sort of like, I don'tknow if flirty is the right
(30:08):
word, but just like congenialtone to him that like he's
delighted to have received aletter from her, and he's also
grateful for the information shegave but he's sort of like
reflecting on the fact that,like you could do this, I rely
on women to give me accounts ofwhat's going on. It's a letter
that has been sort of separatedfrom its context. It's been
treated for John Adamsperspective and not Polly's
(30:31):
perspective, and I think that'smissing a key part of the story
that like for all of herapologies and her sort of
anxiety about writing to him, heis genuinely so glad to have
heard from her. That's kind ofnice to think about.
She does mention that she gets the Declaration of
Independence. She gets hisletter from John Adams, and she
wants to write him back, butthere's no paper in the house.
(30:53):
She has these little things,these military commissions on
them that they've been using inthe house, but they would not do
to send to Congress. Was thispart of like a revolutionary war
paper shortage. What was goingon there?
Emily Sneff (31:03):
Definitely, so if you think about the timeline. So
she writes to John on June 15.He writes back on July 5, and he
encloses, more than likely, oneof the first printings of the
Declaration of Independence toher, probably one of John
Dunlap's broadsides that heprinted the night of July 4. If
he had included a different copyof newspaper or something, he
(31:23):
probably would have described itdifferently. So we can assume
that this was one of the men whoworked on the Declaration of
Independence, enclosing one ofthe first copies to this woman
in Massachusetts. And that isintimidating, right? You get
this letter that has this bigposter size copy of the
declaration folded up in it. Shewrites back to him on August 4.
(31:47):
So if you think about a sort oftwo week window that it took for
mail to travel from Philadelphiato Boston, she received his
letter around the middle ofJuly. That's when the news of
the Declaration of Independencereaches Abigail Adams and
everyone else in Boston. So Shethen waited two weeks to write
her response, and yeah, it'scertainly a reflection of
(32:11):
shortages, wartime shortages.Again, Boston is still
recovering from the Britishevacuation, and so she has the
sort of like forms and likethings in her house that could
be used to write a letter, youknow, on the back of it, but
that would be appropriate forlike sending a letter down the
street, a note to someone, notfor sending something to
(32:32):
Philadelphia. And the otherpiece of this letter that's
interesting at the end of it,when she talks about the risk of
it being intercepted, youwouldn't necessarily want a
military commission blank,though it is to be intercepted
by the British. So she's reallybeing thoughtful as she waits
for, you know, a suitable pieceof paper to use. But yet, it's
(32:54):
definitely a reflection of justthe material conditions of this
period of time, and also herawareness of like, the
importance of her correspondent.
Kathryn Gehred (33:04):
That also comes through to me a lot in this
letter, where she she says, I'mloathe that any misinformation
could lead to a false account,because things need to be
transmitted to future ages. Soshe knows that this is a
historical moment, and she knowsthat she's writing with somebody
who's kind of making history,and that she's now a part of it,
and she's really deeply aware ofthat. I think that's
(33:26):
interesting, because, like yousay, with the Declaration of
Independence, they didn't knowwhat the impact was. But it
seems like she is reallyoptimistic that this is going to
be a moment that's reallyimportant.
Emily Sneff (33:37):
Absolutely, this coincides with a moment where
John Adams also realizes thathis papers are going to be
transmitted to future ages, andhe buys a letter book that he
can start to keep an account ofthe letters that he's receiving
and sending. And he tellsAbigail, I wish I could send you
one, because your letters aremuch better than mine. And he
(33:58):
wishes that they could createsome sort of archive. So we're
fortunate as historians to havethe Adams papers as this
resource of what was happeningduring the revolution, and
especially the two sides, right?We typically get the men writing
to their wives, but not thewives responses to their
husbands, which is maddening.And here, you know, we have the
same thing. We have the back andforth with Polly that, you know,
(34:20):
I think she has an awareness,and he has an awareness that
someday someone might read whatshe's writing. And so she wants
to make sure that the actualproduct looks good, that it's
not scratched and, you know,blotted and messy, and it's not
written on the back of somepiece of paper. She wants it to
be on a clean sheet of paper. SoI think that is very relatable.
Kathryn Gehred (34:42):
And also she's imagining future historians
reading this and being like,that's not right, exactly, yeah,
he got that wrong informationfrom this woman, yeah?
Emily Sneff (34:52):
Like you don't want to be a footnote for the wrong
reason, right?
Kathryn Gehred (34:55):
Yeah, incredibly relatable. So it seems like John
Adams, in his response is sortof saying, hey, let's keep up a
correspondence. Would this besomething that's sort of normal
between men and women of thistime?
Emily Sneff (35:08):
It's really interesting because, yeah, he
really wishes that she wouldcontinue to write to him. And,
you know, I think, on the onehand, he just wants as much
information as possible fromBoston all the time. So in her
letter, she gives you know thismilitary information, but also
just updates on his family, herfamily, all of the people that
(35:30):
they know. So I think he, youknow, would appreciate that, but
I think he also admires herwriting style. And in a letter
to Abigail Adams, he complimentsPolly's writing style, and so
you can imagine that helegitimately wanted to keep a
correspondence. And it wasn'tthat unusual, even though she
was, you know, a single woman.She's Abigail's family member.
(35:52):
They're part of this friendgroup. It would not have been
crazy for them to keep up acorrespondence. And John Adams
keeps a correspondence with herfather. So it would have been
easy to enclose, you know, herletters within his letters to
send to Philadelphia, but Pollyis just not interested.
Kathryn Gehred (36:10):
Where she says, like, thank you very much. I'm
very honored. Do you want tohave a correspondence with me?
But you should write your wife.Is that sort of how you take
that section?
Emily Sneff (36:18):
It is, yeah. I mean, you can read it a few
different ways. I think she musthave known, as we all know, that
Kathryn Gehred (36:21):
She was, like, adding to that first letter,
Abigail Adams letters areremarkable, right? She is a very
good writer. She has somespelling things and phraseology
that is really interesting, butshe is detailed and she is
emotional and she just herletters are jam packed with
information, and that's a highstandard, as her friend, I can
(36:41):
imagine Polly Palmer, if sheknows that Abigail is out of
town, then she knows thatthere's going to be this gap
like, for such a long time,trying to make sure it's all
that she is trying to fill, butshe also feels inadequate to do
that job. So I think she'sspeaking from a place of not
wanting to commit herself tokeeping a correspondence, and
also probably just the stress ofhaving to correspond with John
(37:02):
Adams, right? Like, she alreadywaited two weeks to try to find
right.
a clean piece of paper to writeto him. You can just imagine that.
Emily Sneff (37:06):
Trying to make sure that she has as much in there as
possible. Like, there isdefinitely anxiety baked into
her writing, and so I don'tthink that she really wanted to
commit herself to continuing tocorrespond. And I feel bad
(37:30):
because, like, I would love tohave more letters of hers to
read and get her account of thethings that were happening
around her, but at least we havethis one from such an important
moment of receiving theDeclaration of Independence,
like if you were going to pick amoment to have correspondence,
this is the moment to pick. So,yeah, it's unfortunate that she
didn't keep a correspondencewith John. She did write a
(37:51):
little bit with Abigail whileJohn and Abigail were in Europe
during his diplomatic career.And those letters, you know,
they're from a decade later, andher health has seriously
declined by then, in part due toher nervous condition
persisting. And those lettersare honestly really sad, because
(38:11):
Abigail is describing all thesewonders that she's seeing in
France and saying, I wish youcould come to Paris like I wish
you could see all of thesethings. And Polly, again, takes
a really long time to respond,not because of a lack of paper,
but because she just can't gether words on paper. So something
(38:31):
like mentally is blocking herfrom writing, and she's
reflecting and saying, I'mprobably never going to see the
things that you're seeing, butI'm grateful for you telling me
about them. You know, I couldnever make a journey across the
Atlantic, but at least my frienddid, and she can tell me about
it. So it's reallyheartbreaking, this dissent from
(38:52):
sort of feeling like, oh, Idon't know if I can write to
someone in Congress, to feelinglike I'm never going to have the
experiences that my friends arehaving, you know, it's really
sad.
Kathryn Gehred (39:02):
Yeah, did she keep up any kind of
correspondence with John Adamsafter this?
Emily Sneff (39:07):
There's one more letter in the Adams papers from
when he's preparing to go bevice president, and she's
helping with this library. And,you know, I have to imagine that
most of their friendship tookplace in person. So just because
there's a 12 year gap in thearchive of the Adams papers
doesn't mean that they didn'ttalk to each other for 12 years.
(39:29):
But that letter is reallyinteresting, because she is
helping out with this process ofcataloging all of his books and
figuring out which books hewants to take with him. So
again, she must be educated,right? She must have a love of
reading herself, because she'sunderstanding sort of what books
are necessary for this newpolitical office that he's
taking on. And I love thatletter because there was a book
(39:51):
that the two of them were tryingto find and they couldn't find
it on the shelves of thelibrary. And after John leaves,
she finds it, and so she says. Ifound this book, and it'll be
part of your library unless thefairy that took it away comes
back. She still has thisplayfulness to her. You can tell
that they had a sort ofaffectionate friendship in
(40:13):
person, even though it's notrecorded in more than these
handful of letters.
Kathryn Gehred (40:18):
I think that's really important to point out,
because we depend so much onthese paper written sources as
historians. But I used to workon the Martha Washington papers,
and there's almost no lettersbetween her and, you know, her
mom and her father and some ofher siblings. That's because
they were talking to each otherconstantly every day. There's
almost no letters. And that'sone of the most important
personal relationships that shehad. But then with somebody who,
(40:39):
like, maybe you sort of have tokeep up a correspondence with
there might be more letters fromsomeone. You have to really
think about these humanrelationships sometimes.
Emily Sneff (40:46):
Yeah and you know, we have the best Abigail Adams
letters from the times when sheand John were apart, and that
doesn't mean that they didn'thave really deep conversations
about politics and women'seducation and all these things
in person, we just happen tohave the records of it from when
they were at a great distance.And you know, there's a lot of
other emotions that are part ofthose letters, too. It's easy to
(41:09):
just kind of assume limitationson a relationship because of
what survives, but there'sdefinitely much more there that
didn't survive.
Kathryn Gehred (41:18):
It's interesting that she's worried about her
letter being taken by theBritish. Tell me a little more
about that.
Emily Sneff (41:22):
So this is really interesting, because since it
took her so long to write herresponse, the war has changed.
So at the time that John waswriting to her on July 5 and
enclosing a copy of theDeclaration of Independence for
her, the British ships were juststarting to assemble at Staten
Island over the course of acouple of days, have started to
(41:43):
assemble in another reallyinteresting moment of timing, of
like, what if they had comebefore the Declaration of
Independence? So by the timethat she's writing in August,
there is a real like, minute byminute threat of a British
attack on New York. And New Yorkis obviously right in the middle
between Boston and Philadelphia.So she is worried that this
(42:05):
increased British presence atNew York will mean that whatever
networks John is using to getcorrespondence to Boston are
going to be interrupted. And youknow, this is a concern that
Abigail Adams and other peoplein Boston have as well, that
Boston is going to beeffectively cut off from
Philadelphia by what's happeningin New York. So whereas her
(42:27):
first letter in June of 1776before any British ships had
arrived, she signs it with hername. In this August letter, she
uses her pseudonym, and on theone hand, it's kind of reaching
back into their younger times offriendship when they use these
pseudonyms in a sort of playfulway, but the same way that
Abigail Adams chooses to writeunder a pseudonym to her
(42:48):
husband, there's this realawareness of the political
stakes of writing to someonelike John Adams, so she
recognizes that even if theBritish intercepted it, they
wouldn't get that muchinformation out of her. She's
not sending political secrets oranything, but she is giving her
account of what she thinks ofindependence. And that is pretty
remarkable. So there weredefinitely concerns, and
(43:11):
ultimately, some of John Adams'correspondence is intercepted by
the British. So they were notunfounded concerns, and it's
really interesting to see themreflected on the page.
Kathryn Gehred (43:21):
I feel like she threw a couple little digs at
the Tories and, like, just incase she did.
Emily Sneff (43:26):
Yeah. I mean, we think of Massachusetts as being
this sort of, you know, radicalpart of the colonies turned
states. You know, Massachusettsdragging the rest of the states
toward independence, but therecertainly were still loyalists
in Boston. Many of them hadevacuated with the British in
March of 1776 but there arestill Tories around. And so she
(43:48):
can tell John, this is whateveryone that we agree with
thinks about the Declaration ofIndependence. I don't know what
the Tories think. They haven'tsaid anything yet. You know, I
think that's really interestingperspective that, like she
understands that the majority ofpeople are excited about
independence, and she certainlyis, but there are still kind of
enemies within neighbors whodon't agree with this decision.
Kathryn Gehred (44:10):
Yeah. So what strikes you as important about
the way she receives the gift ofthe Declaration of independency,
as she calls it?
Emily Sneff (44:18):
There are a couple things that make this letter
really remarkable. The first isthat despite doing a lot of
research, I've only been able tofind three accounts of women in
their own words reacting to theDeclaration of Independence in
1776 and all three of thosewomen are in Massachusetts. So
it's it's a very skewed samplesize, unfortunately. One is
(44:41):
Polly Palmer. The other isprobably obvious. It's Abigail
Adams reacting multiple timesbecause she receives a copy from
John and she attends a publicreading, and then she hears it
read again in her church inAugust. So we have these
different moments of reception.And then the third one is from a
teenage. Her name's KeziaCoffin, who was on the island of
(45:03):
Nantucket. She kept a diary, andwhen the declaration is brought
over to Nantucket, she writes inher diary that it was horrible,
and she wished that theContinental Congress and all of
their supporters had been strung50 feet in the air before they
had been allowed to issue thisdeclaration.
Kathryn Gehred (45:20):
Strong words
Emily Sneff (45:21):
Yeah, at least I have one Tory perspective. And
also, you know, all three ofthese women, they understand the
politics that are happeningaround them, which is really
awesome to see, but that's it.So Polly Palmer's letter stands
out, and it's kind of beenforgotten, because her copy of
Declaration of Independence, toour knowledge, does not survive.
So the letter that John Adamssent on July 5 of 1776 in
(45:45):
closing, the declaration becamea collectible. It was collected
by someone who was interested inhis autograph, more than the
content of the letter or therecipient. So we don't know if
the copy of the declaration wassomething that Polly held on to
or something that sheimmediately handed over to her
father or shared with hercommunity. But to our knowledge,
(46:06):
it doesn't survive. And from myperspective, that doesn't mean
that the story doesn't need tobe told. Right? We tend to
prioritize and emphasize theSelect copies of the declaration
that survive and are valued atmillions of dollars, and, you
know, highly prized. But thereare also sort of gaps in the
archives that are worthexploring and thinking about how
(46:29):
Polly Palmer became separatedfrom the declaration that she
received. I think herexplanation of how she feels
about the declaration is reallyinteresting, too. It's different
than the other accounts that wehave. And I think it reflects a
sort of relief of, you know,knowing that, in John Adams
words, that blue skies, youknow, clear skies, are going to
(46:52):
come over Boston, that there'sgoing to be this hopefulness.
And I love her phrasing of like,it's happy, it's a happy
revolution, right? Independenceis a happy thing. She also
though thinking about thegendered language here. She
talks about how the declarationis going to be remembered for
generations to come. She knowsthat John Adams is involved in
the process. She may not knowexactly that he was helping to
(47:14):
draft it, but she knows thathe's part of the Congress. And
she talks about how it's goingto be to the esteem of patriots,
and she uses masculine pronouns,so she's not counting herself as
a patriot. She's talking aboutJohn Adams and his colleagues as
the patriots who are going to beremembered by generations of
Americans to come. And that'skind of sad, because she clearly
(47:35):
has a grasp on the importance ofthe moment that she's living
through these unprecedentedtimes, but she doesn't think
she's going to be remembered. Sopart of my work of really
writing about her and focusingon this letter is to show she is
worthy of being rememberedalongside John Adams, and you
know, the people who signed thedeclaration that, like her,
reception of the news ofindependence is important, and
(47:58):
she shouldn't just be poor atPolly. She shouldn't be a
footnote. She should really besomeone that we look to as an
example of what it was like tolearn about the Declaration of
Independence for the first time.
Kathryn Gehred (48:10):
That's awesome. And look at us 250, years later.
Emily Sneff (48:14):
Yeah!
Kathryn Gehred (48:14):
Who would have thought
Emily Sneff (48:15):
Women lifting up women, right?
Kathryn Gehred (48:17):
Yeah, so you're sort of dragging Polly kicking
and screaming back into thehistorical narrative, but she
deserves it.
Emily Sneff (48:23):
She did not want to be a historiographer. She didn't
want to keep up acorrespondence, but her letter
is remembered, or at least it'sgoing to be remembered by me.
Kathryn Gehred (48:31):
Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Well, Emily, thank you
so much for coming on the show.This was such a fascinating and
enlightening conversation.
Emily Sneff (48:39):
Oh I'm so glad. I'm really glad that we were able to
highlight this letter and Pollyand prepare for the 250 by
talking about women writingabout the declaration.
Kathryn Gehred (48:49):
Yeah, write on! To my listeners, thank you very
much for tuning into the show. Iwill link to the letters that we
talked about in our show notes,and as ever, I am your most
obedient and humble servant.Thank you very much.
(49:09):
Your Most Obedient & HumbleServant is a production of R2
Studios, part of the RoyRosenzweig Center for History
and New Media at George MasonUniversity. I'm Kathryn Gehred
the creator and host of thispodcast. Jeanette Patrick and
Jim Ambuske are the executiveproducers. Special thanks to
(49:33):
Virginia Humanities for allowingme to use their recording
studio. If you enjoyed thisepisode, please tell a friend
and be sure to rate and reviewthe series in your podcast app.
For more great history podcasts,head to R2studios.org. Thanks
for listening!
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