CLASSICS: Dave Schrader!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys
are your favorites, so like to say subscribe and rade it.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm stary.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Greatest on yesterday and listening watching Limb always keep its watching.
And now you're hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bobo Fay.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello, Bobo? How you doing?

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Manre you?

Speaker 3 (00:33):
What's going on? Cliff?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
All sorts of.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Stuff as usual. I had a pretty eventful weekend. We
can get it out a little bit in the members
section here because we have a great guest when I
will take too long for it, but we'll get to
that later. But I don't want to keep our guests
on the line too much longer because I'm excited about
this one and and some people out there might be
puzzling about that because we have a paranormal guest on
and Cliff's excited about it. Well you'll see why here.

(00:58):
I think this is gonna be great.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yeah, he's cool.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
I was on his show a couple of times. He's
a good dude.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
And of course, if you are interested in hearing what
but when I talk about in the member section, we're
not hiding it from you. But you know, if you're
interested in becoming a member. There's a link in the
show notes, and we get an extra episode every Thursday,
so you get pretty much twice the Cliff and Bobo.
All right, we let's jump into our guests tonight, and
then I'm very very pleased to have our friend on.
Dave Schrader is our guest tonight. He's a ghost dude.

(01:26):
That's how I know him, because you know, I don't
watch a lot of TV and stuff in general, but
I do know Dave from doing various gigs around town
and whatnot. He's been on a couple panels with me
and just I always have a great time speaking with him.
He's been on a number of television shows at The
Holser Files The Ghost of Devil's Perch whe are two
of the most recent ones, but I think he's been
on countless ones really so I've never counted them, that's

(01:47):
for sure, But right now I think he has a
very popular podcast called Paranormal sixty and so Dave, Dave Schrader,
welcome to Bigfoot and Beyond. I'm so glad you can
join us.

Speaker 2 (01:58):
Well, thank you both for having me on. I appreciate this.
You know, I've had Bobo on my show when I
used to be on Darkness Radio, and he was so
popular that I think we ended up having him back
the next night to continue our conversation and had a
great time. So and Cliff, you and I always just
seem to miss each other when availability would open up.
But I'm glad I get a chance to visit with

(02:20):
you now and this is fantastic. Thanks for having me in.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Well, you know, it's hard to have just one one
helping of Bobo. You always want to have seconds when
you have that dish, you know, no doubt, niceaid. And
you know, I don't do a lot of podcasts nowadays
because I work on one, you know, and it's like,
you know, I bet a maid's house is dirty for example.
You know, So I don't do a lot of podcasts
in my off time, but I'd be happy to do

(02:43):
yours anytime. Just give me a holler let me know.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
So, oh you know it. We'd love to have you
Kim on and chat and catch up our audience on
all things Crypted as well. That's such a huge, huge
following that it's strange to me, you know, as a
guy's been in the paranormal field actively as a radio
show host for eighteen years. First with Darkness Radio, I
was a fill in host on Coast to Coast for

(03:05):
five years, and then I've been doing my new podcast,
The Paranormal sixty for the last three years. It's always
amazing to me that I could come out with some
of the most unbelievably amazing stories of reincarnation or demonic
possession or hauntings that are making the Amityville look like
kiddie play. But then I do an episode on Bigfoot

(03:25):
and I get multiples of downloads, and I would get
on any other episode, and it's great to see that
that interest in fascination continues. But it's kind of confounding,
and I'd actually love to pick both of your brains.
There's so much going on in the world, and the
concept that, you know, alien disclosures kind of out there. Now.
There's ghost shows everywhere, but there's always just one, maybe

(03:48):
two big Foot style shows going on. Why do you
think there's so much excitement that continues in the field
of cryptozoology because it's real.

Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, the real animals. It's as simple as that. I mean,
people wonder when the people who don't think sasquatches are
real wonder when the whole thing is gonna go away,
and it's like that's like asking, well, gosh, you know
what is this whole elk thing gonna go away? You
know what is this whole black bear thing gonna go away?
I'm tired of it? I mean, are people gonna be
finished talking about it? It's like, No, there's always gonna
be hunters, you know, They're always gonna there's gonna be

(04:19):
outdoors people, and there are always gonna be sasquatches around
because they're just here.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
You know.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
It is persistent because of the reality of the species.
I like it, and I love the fact that people
have this ongoing fascination when and again, being a guy
on the outside and having watched your shows and the
other shows that have come out regarding cryptids and bigfoot
in specific, it's it's always fascinating to me that there's

(04:45):
such fleeting amounts of what would be considered really amazing
evidence that I've had a.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Chance to see. But yet that's enough to just keep
people really intrigued by the concept that there might be this,
whether it's a ghostly creature, an interdimensional being, or just
a zoological creature. We have not yet identified. It's it's
fun to watch people really glom onto this and have
such a deep love and respect and fondness for that

(05:14):
specific creature.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
Yeah. I think it might have something to do with that.
We see a little bit of ourselves in them, you know,
because they're shaped like us, for example, you know, like
that the general morphology of a human being kind of
sort of even though they're very very different from us
obviously in pretty much every aspect, but they are kind
of like us. And I think we kind of see
that and glom onto it in the same sort of
way that back in the day, you know, like nineteen sixties,

(05:38):
nineteen seventies, people got a kick out of, like watching it,
seeing a chimpanzee in a suit or something like that, right,
you know, I think that there's something akin to that.
I'm not sure what that word would be, but I
think there's something akin to that. It's just unfortunately, I
always find it unfortunate how the depiction that the media
gives the subject and also the researchers, you know, the

(05:59):
researcher are often depicted very very poorly, like gullible tinfoil
hat wear and weirdos and mind you, some of us are,
but the subject itself deserves such a higher level of
respect than what I feel it gets on television and
the Internet and whatever else. But at the end of
the day, the subject is here, It is real, and

(06:19):
the animals are real, just perfectly normal animals out in
the woods, and as long as they're walking around, the
mystery of the subject will also be walking around, at
least until Discovery Day whenever.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
That is so, just like Tenacious D is saying, which
is you know, the mother effer is real, real, real, real,
Sasquatch is real.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
There you go.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yeah, I think you did have to finish that. I'm
not sure everybody would know that they were. They actually
said that you don't know the Sasquatch, so.

Speaker 3 (06:47):
I do not. You don't squash your love is real.
That's great.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
It's an epic ballad and we'll have some really hard
rocking parts as well. It's really the quintessence of prog
rock in some ways. See nobody's writing good ghost story
songs anymore. Yeah, you know what, why not? Because there's
there's a there's a whole lot of Sasquatch songs, So
what's up with that? Where the artists in the ghost world.
How come they're not doing that? I don't, you know,
I don't know. I mean, there might be they're just

(07:16):
not as vocal about it, and it's just a topic
that you don't hear coming. But I like one of
my favorite all time songs of any genre is Charlie
Daniels band The Legend of Wooly Swamp and the ghostly
Stories and just the concept of being deep out in
the woods and not knowing your surroundings and just how

(07:37):
dangerous it could be, and how dangerous it is for
the three brothers that go and seek the fortune that
is told to be out there. But I just love
that ghost story. That's always been one of my favorites,
and I love the fact that it was all in
a song format. But of course, Charlie Daniels also did
the Double Nut in Georgia, so there seems to be
a lot of spiritual or you know, songs along in

(07:58):
his repertoire is book. Perhaps could it be, And I
don't know, I'm assuming the fair number of ghost people
listen to this. Maybe they don't they've had enough of me.
I don't know, But perhaps could it be that ghost
people don't sing very well, you know.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
I'm not going to even put that out there because
I'm a huge fan of Bruce Springsteen and he's got
a bunch of songs about ghosts and even as a
song called the Jersey Devil, So I'm going to give
him the credit where credit is due. At least, I
know one guy's still putting out some songs with paranormal
slants and themes to them.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Maybe he absorbed everybody else's talent.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, that would be the only excuse that I can understand.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
I'm just messing with the ghost community. So because you
know I'm not anti ghosts, I get a lot of
that in the shop or whatever. If I'm out on
a gig at one of these speaking deals, people come
up to me, he says, I know you're not a
paranormal guy, and I know this and that.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
Blah buh.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, you don't know much because you know I told
you on stage. Remember when we did the Oregon big
Foot Conference last year, I told you my ghost story
in front of everybody. You know, like I do, think
paranormal stuff happens. I just don't know what that stuff is,
and I under no circumstances to I think sasquatches are
in any way paranormal, you know, but that's just a
when you when you look at the weird fields that

(09:09):
you know, you and I and everybody else looks into.
If you want to put that under the umbrella of
unknown or supernatural or paranormal, I said, eh, okay, but
sasquatch is a very very small slice of that pie,
And that's a very very boring slice of that pie
in some ways, because there isn't, in my opinion, anything
paranormal about it. But I'm into all other weird things.

(09:30):
How do you think I got into big foot in
the first places?

Speaker 2 (09:32):
My thought?

Speaker 1 (09:32):
You know, like clearly you're you're not like a perfectly
normal person who just happens to be interested in sasquatches.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
If you're gonna if you're gonna argue now that you're
a perfectly normal person, I don't even know what.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
To say to you. I am he is one of
the most normal people. He knows well.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
I actually I've hung out of your house for a
week or so at a time up in Humboldt, and
between you know, you and Jesse Legend and Heavy met
Pat and Rubber Arm Joe and all your other weird
muppet friends that come by. You know, I guess you
are pretty normal exactly. But didn't you tell me once
that I'm the most normal person?

Speaker 3 (10:11):
You know, you're the most normal person that introduced to
my parents as a friend.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Oh okay, yeah, you're the token normal friend. Of course
I am.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
You had a job back then.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
I've failed you. I've failed you. Well anyway, Dave, Dave.
So I've got a couple of questions for you.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Now.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Again, I don't watch much TV. Maybe this is already
out there or something like that, but specifically the Holser Files, right,
that was one of the shows you're on, And apparently
I was reading a little bit about it in preparation
for the interview here, and what I get is that
there was a historic ghost person or paranormal person called
doctor Hans Holzer and that that show explored his files.

(10:51):
Is that is that the correct slant of the show? There?

Speaker 2 (10:54):
The synopsis? Yeah, doctor Hans Holzer had been around. You know,
he's a very pre eminent paranormal investigator. They call him
one of America's first ghost hunters. He had a TV
series known as ghost Hunters long before the ghost Hunters
TV series came out, he was on Network news all
the time. He put the Whaley House in San Diego

(11:17):
on the map while investigating it with his friend Regis Philbin,
who captured weird experiences on film. He reduced, yeah, if
you look online. As a matter of fact, they did
that Celebrity ghost Stories or My ghost Stories a few
years ago where they would take some of these celebrities
back to the locations that you know that upset them,
that they had these encounters with. And Reis talked very

(11:39):
openly about his paranormal encounters at the Whaley House.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Well, that's the weirdest thing I've heard all day. Yeah, good,
We've just begun.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Doctor Holzer, he really you know, he wrote over I
think it was one hundred and eighty five books on
just about every angle of the strange and supernatural, from
witchcraft to UFOs, to miracle priests, to ghosts and hauntings
and famous haunted locations. And like him, I have such
a love and fascination of history that it was just

(12:10):
so when they opened the door to me to let
me in to investigate his files, I jumped on it.
Because when they first when they first reached out. They're like, hey, Dave,
you know hey, we're aware of you. We're interested in
having you lead on a ghost show. And I'm like, oh,
I think i'm good. Thanks, and they were like, well, no,
this is TV and I'm like, yeah, I think i'm good.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
That's what I'm saying. No, don't you understand that I'm.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Going to be polite, right, But I'm like, there's enough
ghost shows and I don't want to just be part
of a cookie cutter cast. And they're like, no, no, no,
this is totally different. And I said, how's it different. Well,
it's just going to be three of you. And I
said I think that show is called Ghost Adventures and
he goes, no, no, no, one of you is going
to be a medium and a psychic. And I said, oh,
so it's kind of like Dead Files. No no, no,

(12:54):
it's I can't tell you until you agree that you
want to be a part of this. And I'm like, well,
we're in an impact then, because I'm not going to
be a part of something I don't know more about.
So I signed some thick phone book style NDA and
as soon as I signed it, they said, we're reopening
the case files of doctor Hans Holzer, and that's all
they got out of their mouths, and I'm like, I'm in,
count me in. This will be amazing, So I was

(13:17):
willing to do that. They had all the original video, photographs,
audio recordings, handwritten notes, everything he had done over his
like forty five fifty year span of investigating the supernatural,
and I was man. I grew up reading Hans Holzer's books,
so to get a chance to follow in his footsteps.

(13:37):
And another interesting tie I had to doctor Holzer was
our radio show. We were the last radio show that
he did before he sadly passed away.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, because he lived until I think I remember two
thousand and nine or something like that, so pretty much.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Around two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine that
he passed away. And you know, I became friends with
his daughter, Alexandra, and she was part of this program.
So it really it was a great opportunity. I'm glad
we got to do it for two seasons. I in
all their haste to get the show on the air,
I think they mis named it. You know, Holser Files

(14:13):
is really cool if you are a triedent and true
paranormal fan and know who doctor Hans Holzer was, but
you know, he had passed away in two thousand and eight,
two thousand and nine. He wasn't on any of the
big paranormal TV series of our time here since you know,
the relaunching about two thousand and one, with all of
the different glut of paranormal style shows that came out,

(14:35):
so he wasn't as familiar. And I kept telling him,
could we let's name the show Holzer's Ghost Files. I
think if the audience knows what you know, what the
files are that we're investigating. Otherwise it sounds like a
seventies detective show. And they didn't change the name. We built,
you know, a nice gathering, but just not enough to
keep us on for a third season.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
It's hard to find a producer who had listen, you know,
and think that, oh, the host that's been doing this
for thirty years may know a little bit more about
the subject than I do because I've been researching this
for six months.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah. No, I've learned that in the world of TV,
everybody is smarter than you. So I just, you know,
nod and smile and do my job the best to
my abilities. And that's that's all I did. They rolled
Cindy Kase of the Medium and I that were on
the Holzer Files over to another program called The Ghosts

(15:26):
of and we were brought out to Butte, Montana to investigate.
And we stayed there for a little over ninety days,
just living and breathing and sweating in that same town
with the people, and it was it was a great experience.
But holy cow, what a bunch of weird paranormal things
are going on in that town. And there's everything from
UFO sightings to cryptid sidings, to ghosts and what they

(15:48):
believe are demons. So that was another head trip to
be a part of a program like that.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
We'll be right back after these messages.

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Speaker 1 (17:53):
When so much variety of weird stuff happens around a
location in particular, either do you think it has more
to do with the people or the location itself. Like
there's people like Bobbo for example, I believe, and I
want to put words in his mouth. You can refute
this if you choose Bobes, but like he's very strong.
He's a strong advocate of the vortex kind of idea,

(18:15):
you know, or the skinwasher or Skinwalker ranch thing out
in Utah, or any of these number of things. You
think it's a location deal or is it a people deal.
I think it's a mixture of both. I think that
like in the case of Butte Montana, here you've got
this gorgeous land and it drew all these people because
of the minerals that were in the earth, the silver

(18:35):
of the gold and the copper, which is really what
was so big there.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
And you know they built this it was the wild West. Baby.
There were you know, shootouts and you had such a.
It was a mining town that were twenty four to seven,
so did the brothels. There were blocks of whorehouses that
ran twenty four hours a day, and there were levels
to the whorehouses that you could is it depending on

(19:00):
how much money you made. So there, you know, literally
there was elite on the top floor all the way
down to guys that were making pennies. There was something
for everybody. And it was a town you know in violence,
steeped in shootouts and fisticuffs and you know, sex and
violence and money and greed. And I think that that

(19:23):
taints the ground after a while. That kind of anxiety,
that kind of stress can have an impact and an
effect on an area. And I don't know if people
are drawn to a specific place because of the energy
that's there, or do we create this rift, this vortex
because of the way we treat a location, its history

(19:46):
and the people that walk that place before we were there.

Speaker 1 (19:49):
Maybe one begets the other.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
It's hard to say, because there are some places that
are extremely haunted that we have nobody died here. We
don't know why this is so active, you know, And
not only that, but they're seeing UFOs in the sky
and people in the neighborhood have had bigfoot encounters, and
it's just to me, it's astonishing because I can't figure

(20:11):
out what is it about this? It ends up like
an episode of Stranger Things. It's just like Bobo loves
these vortex these portal spots that just seem to be
a hotbed of activity of many different styles. Interesting.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yeah, I wonder about those.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Why is it?

Speaker 3 (20:29):
I mean, because Native Americans those are tens of thousands
of years. It's like, why more of their ghosts scene?
I mean, I know they're scenes sometimes, but seems like
they should be seen a lot more.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
That's a great question, and again nobody has the one answer.
I often wonder though, if time is not linear, if
it is like the string theory, and it's a big
ball of timey wymy wibbly wobbly stuff, right, and it's
could it be that the timeline of eighteen hundred to

(20:59):
nineteen twenty twenty one happens to being, you know, laying
over the timeline of two thousand to two thousand and thirty,
And as time and space continue to change and underlate, well,
will the next layer of time lay upon Native American
spirits or ancient Rome will we see more of that

(21:19):
taking place. It also may have to do with the
belief systems of the locations. You know, the native people
and indigenous tribes were so respectful of their dead and
did everything they could to put these these people and
beings and spirits to rest that I think that there's
not that same dissension and even the brutal murders that

(21:42):
took place and this enfranchising these these tribes people, which
is heartbreaking to talk about, I think that they were
on a different level of evolution in a mindset that
although the death was not something that they would have
wanted or chosen, and I think they felt that in

(22:02):
the battle that they did to try to save their people,
save their culture, they move on because it was a
heroic deed. So I think there's some elements of that.
I also think it also, you know, we see these
cyclical moments when paranormal seems to be in resurgence, and
there was that eighteen hundreds to early nineteen hundreds, famine, disease, pestilence,

(22:24):
all of these horrible things that were taking place, and
people were constantly calling out to the spirit realm and spiritualists,
did we rupture something in doing that, that that's why
we see that time era, and we don't see the
time era of other places. And maybe the places that do,
say the Native American spirits, are places like Skinwalker Ranch

(22:46):
or or you know, deep in the wilderness where we
don't walk still, and that may be where the indigenous
spirits and tribes people still gather. Now, that brings an
interesting question to my mind. At least, at least I
think it's interesting researchers, at least in Bigfoot. I don't
know if this is true in ghosts or not. Researchers

(23:07):
are honestly seem to be kind of few and far between.
Most of the people in the Bigfoot world tend to
be like fans of the subject or ficionados, you know,
but almost nobody has really taken notes, like using Excel
sheets and you know that kind of stuff, looking for patterns,
and almost nobody really, very very few people. Are there
people doing that in the ghost field or are they

(23:29):
doing the equivalent of going out and banging on trees
and listening for something and maybe bringing a recording home,
you know, which is I guess, Like, I don't know.
I've seen a few minutes of occasional ghost shows like
I guess yelling at a wall or something and saying,
are you there? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
I know very little about the ghost world.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
You know.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
I mean, I'm gonna be very honest. I know almost
nothing about all this, so this is all new to me.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
We're not that different, Cliff. We go into dark areas
by ourselves and we do our own versions of the whoop, hello,
is there anyone here? Knock on the wall. Well, if
you can hear me, and you bang the walls hoping
they're going to bang back. So our shows are not
that different in that concept of hoping finding a way

(24:09):
to connect with something and get those answers. But there
are a lot of different organizations that have been working.
The Ryan Institute UCLA used to have a huge parapsychological department.
Doctor Barry Taff work there. Thelma, oh gosh, her last
name is escaping me. But there have been a lot

(24:31):
of different places and still some that continue to investigate
these type of phenomenon to understand it or try to,
and they take the time to corroborate evidence and what
they find. You know, what are we able to tell?
My friend Bill Chappele, who is the engineer. He's created
so many amazing, fun, interesting tools for the paranormal trade

(24:55):
and investigating ghosts. He will tell you he's not necessarily
a believer in ghosts. He can't tell you what's activating
these pieces of equipment, but he'll take our theories and
build equipment around it as an actual electrical engineer to
see can these things be influenced by an outside source.
And he had a tool called the Paranormal Puck and

(25:17):
it was not real flashy, it wasn't real pretty. You
plugged it into your laptop, you ran the software, but
it would calibrate and tell you what the temperature is,
what the de point average was, what the geomagnetic principles
of the area you were in. It gave you all
of this background stuff that nobody really cared about because
everybody just wants to see a ghost. And he had

(25:39):
tons of data, but nobody would bother to look at
the data in correlation with what was taking place. It
became more of a thrill in an entertainment industry than
it did a scientific principle. And I know I'm going
to take heat for saying that, because there are teams
out there that claim they're scientific, but like you, where
are their reports, where is their scientific work? And who

(26:01):
have they peer reviewed with? And you know what's going
on that just doesn't exist anymore, well so amongst the
data gatherers. So it sounds like there are some which
is good to hear. Of course, you know amongst the
data gatherers, has there ever been a study already publishing
or what's the gist of the apparitions or whatever? For

(26:22):
LAFE a better term that are observed? Are there are
there a predominance of a certain time period, kind of
going back to what we were talking about before, like
our most ghosts, you know, Victorian for example, Victorian era
eighteen hundreds to the early nineteen hundreds. It's like, you know,
usually in that roundhouse of about maybe eighteen seventies to
nineteen twenty one, depending on the type of garb, the

(26:45):
things that they do or say or have been witnessed doing.
But being a fan of science as well, I'm not
necessarily sure that we're seeing a dead person in the
way that you think we.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Are, which is what I want to ask you next,
like is that what we're dealing with? Because I'm friends
with a fair number of ghosts folks, and it seems
the jury is out like that. They're not necessarily dead
people that people are encountering. So what's going on, you think?
I think some of it is time slip phenomena. I
think the concept that there are just points where you can,

(27:17):
you know, you're sharing a location. You're sharing a place
that has always existed and always will exist. It's been
in many different forms, but the spot you're sitting on
has always existed and always will well after you're gone
and well before you were here. And every person that
treads that area is like a page in a book,

(27:38):
and from time to time, I think those pages align
and you can kind of see the text through one
page into another. And you know, like the movie The
Others with Nicole Kidman where she's hearing these ghostly sounds
and voices and she's being tormented and spoiler alert on
a twenty year old movie, it turns out that they're
the dead people and the voices she's here our people

(28:00):
from the future that are living in that house. And
I really do think that there are elements of that
that have occurred. You know, ghost Hunters did a TV
episode when they went to I think it was Mount
Washington uh and hotel, and they were engaging with the
spirit and they you know, Princess, can you hear us?

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Can? Yes, I can hear you. This is my room.
Where are you? What kind of game are you playing?
And she was going to get security, So that tells
me in her consciousness she must have been in her
room hearing these voices. When I was at Waverly Hills
Sanatorium in Kentucky, it was a tuberculosis clinic, tens of
thousands of people reportedly died, and then it was a

(28:42):
geriatric home in hospital, and nurses and doctors talked about
it being haunted at its time. And when we were
there investigating, I was with two other fellow investigators. We
rounded the corner and a nurse walked around, stopped and
looked at us. Her eyes got huge, she turned and
ran the other direction. It's an old, dilapidated building at
that point, there aren't nurses working there. What did we

(29:05):
just witness? And to her, did she tell somebody in
her time era? I just saw three ghosts in the hall.
I just saw three men that were there. They came
out of nowhere, And you know, that's what's so fascinating
to me about this. I can't give you one specific
answer to what this phenomenon is, how it happens, because
I think there's many different layers to hauntings. And that's

(29:28):
what keeps me so fascinated and intrigued by this.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
Is that the Washington Hotel, the Washington Hotel in New Hampshire,
Vermont up there.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah that's right, Yeah, Mount Washington.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
We were there and money Maker conjured up a ghost.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, we filmed Finding Bigfoot episode there. That's where we stayed,
and we're out in the woods doing stuff or whatever.
But on our night off or whatever, I wasn't involved
in all that because Melissa was on the crew and
I was hanging out with her. But everybody else went
ghost hunning that night and weird stuff happened.

Speaker 3 (29:57):
Well, our sound person or tech she saw she saw
it and it was up in the ceiling area, like
scrolling around and she didn't even know that that's where
the workers would see. It was like in this one
landing kind of like vestibule area or whatever, and on
the staircases and they said, oh, yeah, that's a really
calm place to see it. But yeah, money Maker had

(30:19):
is Himalayan like a Tibetan.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Tibet like bowl, singing bowl that he brought with them
from Tibet or from from the ball. Rather, he got
one of those when we were out there doing the
eddy stuff, and he brought it and he goes, he's
like doing the thing on it and having fun with it.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Right, and and the resonance of the bowl. Look, Native
American and indigenous tribes people will talk about music and
these things that will help them connect to the spiritual
realm and to nature. I know places that use singing
bowls to try to communicate with alien life forms. I
know people that use them in the spiritual realm to

(30:56):
try to communicate with angry spirit and try to bring
some harmony. So it's interesting how there are commonalities and
threads throughout all of the different levels of what's considered
supernatural or paranormal. And it is funny to me that
Bigfoot still falls under that umbrella for many people. Right,
the cryptids are still in that realm of the supernatural,

(31:18):
and you know, just like they're cryptozoological until we find
one and now it becomes zoological and it will no
longer be supernatural. A li itt'll be just part of
our natural world. But it's interesting to me that there
are these different layers of the tapestry that still do
seem to connect things like Bigfoot sightings, alien or UFO
sightings and haunted hotspots.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and
Bogo will be right back after these messages.

Speaker 3 (31:55):
You say, haunted, do you guys make a delineation between
older like entities that are like spirits or demons or
whatever you want to call them, versus just human souls
like in a different time work kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Yeah, that's what I was mentioning is there's all of
these different layers to what a haunting could be. And
I think you're shortsighted if you just want to pigeonhole
ghosts are this, you know, aliens are this. I think
there's many different possibilities to what these beings are, and
if we limit ourselves, it might limit our ability to
look at them more scientifically, to find a way to communicate,

(32:31):
find ways to kind of circumvent the normalcy of communication
of things that we'd say, this can't be real, this
can't exist. So let's put our mindset in a different way.
If we examine it differently, Can we find something that
will actually make sense and start to help us bridge
that chasm and understand more about the spiritual realm. I

(32:52):
think there's times that they knew more two hundred years
ago about ghosts and the spiritual realm than we understand
about it now. Same with creatures, right, And you know
the reverence people had for the mountain gorillas, but everybody
thought that it was a lie. It wasn't until I
think it's only been like one hundred and seventy years.

(33:13):
One hundred and eighty years since gorillas were officially found.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Is like eighteen fifty two or something like that, and
mountain gorillas I believe were nineteen oh two. I probably
am a year or two often one of those.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
But yeah, right, And isn't that absurd to think that
that far along in our history, which is just a
drop of water in the microchasm of the universal ocean
that we're a part of. That's such a small percentage
that we could say we've only known about this creature
legitimately for the last couple hundred years. Something we take

(33:45):
for granted gorillas have always been around.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Yeah, I tell you know, what are the things that
makes me really lament our situation, in the human situation
in some ways, is that most people don't realize that
science is in its infancy at this moment, in its
infancy one hundred and thirty years ago, about we didn't
know about germs, for God's sake, you know, like we

(34:11):
have barely begun our journey into the unknown. You know,
most of our human history has been a wash in
superstition and mythology. Essentially, the science wasn't even a thing,
you know, until probably, I don't know, eighteen thirty or
something like that, eighteen fifty. Before that, they were called naturalists,
and then science wasn't even a thing. And we think

(34:31):
we're all advanced because we have, you know, iPhones in
our pocket now now we're infants.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
And before that it was witches and shaman and it
was magic, these things that we were taking, these these
plant extracts that they would crush up and then give
to you for headache powder, and that's what we now
call aspirin. Right, it's so funny that science is not
that far along. Even in this baffles my mind. We

(34:59):
still cannot figure out where consciousness exists in a human being.
We can't even define what consciousness is, and death is
constantly changing. What we believed even ten years ago about
death is radically different now, and we're realizing that there
may be consciousness in a physical body once the heart

(35:21):
stops for up to four hours.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
What do you think about this idea that I've seen
slowly start spreading, I think amongst the paranormal world, and
I think that's some bigfooters fall into this as well.
And I don't think it fits sasquatch stuff at all,
of course, But you know me, I'm pretty practical about
this whole animal thing. But the other paranormal stuff, I
think the jury's out. I don't know anything about it.
I'm coming from a place of ignorance, and I'm going

(35:45):
to enjoy that ignorance. You know, ignorance is bliss. I'm
going to be pretty happy about this for the moment,
because I don't know much. This idea of like the
grand unification theory of the paranormal where some people instead
of ghosts and demons and this and that's and whatever,
they just refer to it as the phenomenon. What do
you think about that? Or is that boiling it down

(36:05):
too much? And maybe disrespecting certain aspects of these other phenomenon. Well,
I can see that element of it, but I also
see the fact that if we just accept it as
one thing, that it becomes less ominous. Because look, I
can sit here and talk to you about ghosts.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
And demons, because I've encountered things that I would put
into those categories. To me, the concept of this hairy, hominid,
bipedal creature that could be nine to fourteen feet tall
depending on who you speak to, that's there one second,
go on the next. That would be an easy roll
of the eyes and snicker right about you is actually

(36:47):
believe this thing exists. But then I'm two seconds later
talking about ghosts and demons, which to somebody else sounds ridiculous.
So if we normalize it and take away the stigma
of well, this is weird, that's not is the Fay
folk Is that any less weird than Bigfoot? I don't
think so, because it's gone back in culture, Like the

(37:09):
indigenous tribes have talked about bigfoot and have seen them
as you know, a fellow race of Indigenous people to
a creature, to something almost godlike in some instances, that
aliens kind of fit that same realm. Ghosts fit that
same realm. So if we come together on one common
ground and say this is phenomenon and this may all

(37:31):
be tied together, it may be different, but at least
we take the time to look at it. Because if
you take out part of science, you take out you know,
we're examining blood, but we don't want to look at
platelets because platelets aren't our thing. We're all about, you know,
white blood cells. Well, then you're missing a big part
of the full, you know, spectrum of the picture. So

(37:52):
I think that by having this kind of universal approach
to look at this, I think that could be a
healthier way for us all to examine it. Take it
a little bit more seriously, and you know, the pegs
will fall out for the weak links, for the things
that don't make any sense.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
There's nothing word about the fayfolk though.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
Well, James Bobo Faye, there's something pretty weird about that one, right.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
But here's the old thing. I remember having this discussion
with Rosemary Ellen Guiley. She was the Queen of the
Nighttime World, another prolific author we lost a few years ago,
and speaker and teacher, and she, uh, she kind of
put me in my place one day because I was
laughing about the fact she had a book about fairies
coming out, and I'm like, oh my god, seriously, and

(38:33):
she's like, why is that so stupid and funny to you?
And I'm like, they're fairies, that's Disney stuff, and she goes, well, Dave,
do you realize how many Disney movies have creatures and
ghosts in them? Do you scoff at that because that's
been represented in your shows? And I'm like, well, no,
but that's different. How is that different? These stories predate

(38:54):
ghost stories in some instances. They will look at the
Faye and these elements beings as something that predate even Christianity,
the Gin and many things that are referred to and
referenced in the Bible that predate known man in history.
It's really kind of compelling. And she gave me another
way to look at it. She said, you'll look at

(39:15):
Bigfoot and say, yeah, that that could be real. You'll
look at ghosts and say, oh sure, and aliens of course,
but the Fay, No, that can't be possible. She said,
that's being ridiculous. There is something to that. People have this,
you know, love and compassion and respect for it in
other countries. And then I started reading news stories in
the two thousands, not meaning that there's been over two

(39:39):
thousand news stories, but I mean since the two thousands began,
I have found new stories where multiple countries and cultures
have diverted major roadways to avoid troll houses or fairy
rings or fairy mounds or giant mounds because they don't
want to disturb that culture, that be or set of beings.

(40:01):
So there must be something to it that makes it
much more real than we would give it credit to.
So I I you know, I've learned to be open
to all of it. I don't scoff at anything anymore,
no matter how ludicrous it may sound to me, because
just because it hasn't been my experience doesn't mean that
it isn't real. You know, there is a parallel of
that in the Sasquatch world, even the flesh and blood

(40:23):
Sasquatch world, you know where I tend to dwell, And
it's that this idea of relati hominoids, you know, Harry
hormanoids worldwide, because almost certainly like the iring Pendec, for example,
is not the Sasquatch. It's a different species, but we
don't know that jury's out about the yarn or the
Yowie or even the Alma, that the alma has so
many different characteristics. And then there is actually footprint evidence

(40:46):
of the alma and it doesn't seem to be a sasquatch,
but still, and the discovery of any of those would
benefit the all of the others in that people would
be more open to their possibility.

Speaker 1 (40:58):
So perhaps there's a that's a parallel of what you're
actually describing, but in the unknown mystery ape world.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
Right And it's all fascinating and interesting that these cultures
exist like this. And I'll tell you what. There are
times where you can tell me your story and your experience.
I don't have to believe it. And sometimes what I
find more fascinating than anything is why you believe in
these things. So that's part of the human element, is
learning and exchanging of ideas and concepts and seeing what

(41:28):
might make sense to you once you've heard somebody else's
theology or belief system on it.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
Now, now, speaking of believing, I know you're very open
to all sorts of things, but you believe sasquatches are real,
right in some sort of way, Right now, is that
based on an experience or is that because the evidence,
or is that you've heard so many stories or what's
going on there? Well listen like you guys, I grew
up in the era of In Search of and I
saw that footage when they started sharing it of the

(41:57):
Patterson Gmelin film. I was also born in nineteen sixty
seven the same year, so that had a fascination for
me right that that footage came out. So I always
thought that was cool, But I didn't start taking notice
of that until mid seventies when it was on TV
all the time, and when I would go down to
visit my grandparents in seventy four seventy five to Foley, Alabama.

(42:23):
My grandparents owned forty acres of property and only about
ten acres was livable. The rest was just wildness, right,
and there were snakes and water moccas and snakes and
alligators in the back because they had ponds and water
streams back there, so it was it was not a
safe place to be as a kid. But we used

(42:44):
to go play in that area all the time, and
one time my cousin and I were down by the pond,
probably about nine ten o'clock in the morning fishing, and
we just heard something big trumping around out there, and
we kept looking at each other kind of like, well,
you're here. I guess right, it's that safety in numbers.
But it was big, whatever it was, and we could

(43:05):
hear it stomping around. And then finally at the back
of the pond there were these tall shrubs and bushes
that maybe eight nine feet tall, and I see this
hand come up over the top of the bush and
it pushes the bush down, and now I can see
from about the tip of the nose up of this
being that I believe was a sasquatch, but it had

(43:29):
a darker inset face. It had this kind of blackish
gray mane, and the hair came up over its fingers
like Chewbacca's hair. Right, It wasn't just like you would
think of a gorilla. It was like long, drapy hair.
And my cousin and I just literally my brain broke.
We just stared at this thing and then looked at

(43:50):
each other and turned back around and looked at this
thing staring at us, and then we scooby dooded up
the hill and half of the thing we're laughing about
it is we're going to get up there and find
out it's one of our idiot dads in a gorilla
mask trying to freak us out. We get up to
the house. Our dads are there, our cousins are there,
our grandpas are there, our uncles are there. Everybody's accounted for,

(44:12):
and we were so spun out by it that they
all grabbed their rifles and went out into the woods looking.
And at that time, nobody was thinking, go to the
area where it stood and look at the ground. Are
their footprints. I'm sure that there was regret because my
uncle grew to love bigfoot stories, and I'm sure he
always kind of kicked himself for never having gone to
look at that space. But that was the perfect environment

(44:35):
for something like this to live because ten acres is livable.
It leaves you, you know, thirty acres of woodland area
that nobody goes into really because of all of the
other inherent dangers that are out there. So it's kind
of a safety zone and safety buffer for whatever might
be existing. And my grandparents saw UFO activity over their property. Again,

(45:00):
here's a nexus point where here's a creature, here's alien UFO.
Things that have been seen over their property. It's kind
of telling again that in some of these places it
just aligns properly.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
So, yeah, having had that experience as a child, it's
always been niggling at the back of my head that
I think I had a big foot sighting. Now I
also am honest to the fact that I was ten
eleven years old when it happened. It could have been
a homeless man, big homeless guy wearing a tattered jacket,
and I misunderstood what I saw, but it was so

(45:36):
big and crunching around. My dad and uncle and grandfather
used to go out hunting in part of the back
of the woods and you could hear him walking and
it was just a.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
This was like.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
When it was walking, it was with force, and you know,
it just sounded different and big and loud. So that
was really kind of an instigation for me to really
be fascinated by bigfoot. And then the other part to
me that I absolutely love is the fact that the
Peterson Gimblin Bigfoot film to me is one of the

(46:12):
coolest examples of this phenomenon because as time has progressed
and we're able to stabilize the film, clear up the
film and scientifically look at it. To me, it only
gets better where I would have thought that with the
abilities that we've got, it would have degraded the footage

(46:33):
and made it look worse or made it so glaringly
obvious that it was a costume. And I think that,
And I don't know where you guys stand on this particularly,
but that footage to me, still holds the test of time.
Fifty six years later.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Will be right back after these messages, and then who
are your two detractors? And I'll get emails from your
fans and listeners. It'll be like you're a moron and
talking out of your ass. You don't know what you're discussing.
It was a prank put on by Bob Huronymous and

(47:14):
I can't remember the name of the costumer off the
Philip Morris, and I actually had both of those gentlemen
on my radio show and I talked to them about it,
and they, oh, it was awesome we created the costume,
and I said, okay. So in nineteen sixty seven, the
Planet of the Apes came out That was cutting edge

(47:34):
technology makeup with millions of dollars put into the work.
There was two thousand and one, A Space Odyssey which
opens with these bipedal Harry homitids that looked like crappy,
long haired gorilla costumes.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Really bad. The only other thing that was even close
to looking realistic were the monkeys Mickey, Davey, Peter and
Mike right the rest right, the rest of the costumes,
and everything looked cartoonish. And that's I love the Planet
of the Apes movies. But it still looked like a costume.
So you mean to tell me that in nineteen sixty

(48:08):
seven you created a costume out of an old gorilla
costume and football pads that stands the test of time
today that we can actually see muscle structure in the calves,
the thighs, and the back as it's walking away. And
when they gave you the opportunity to recreate this in

(48:29):
the early two thousands, or maybe it was a late nineties,
they gave them the ability to recreate a costume with
the new technology that exists. Their costume looked junkier than
something my kids could have put together. And that was
a professional costumer.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
What was the response to that, Because I'd never spoken
to either of those men.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
Philip Morris just well, no, yeah, you know, I mean
that was like at the top of the line costume
back in the day. And Brob, I said, right, But
the fact that you could not reproduce it forty years
later with new technology and better costumes, because the Jacklink's
bigfoot has been around now for what twenty years, and

(49:10):
that costume and footage is amazing. You couldn't even get
close to that with the schlocky costume that you put
together and had heronomous walking around in. And they, you know,
I was very polite throughout the conversation, but I pushed
on these points and they couldn't give me an answer
I felt was real. I felt it was all very
disingenuous and to what end. I don't understand why disavow

(49:34):
it unless they felt like they got cut out of something.
And as far as I understand, there wasn't a lot
of money that was made, and really the only one
that really made the money was Patterson on the footage,
and I don't even know that that's a reality. Maybe
you guys can answer that element for me.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
He made some money, yeah, he and al Viatley made money,
but they cut Bob out of it. Bob never really
made anything out of it. In fact, Bob told me
he sold all rights to his one third share of
the film or Reneeda Hinden, for one dollar because he
was so tired of being called a liar, and you know,
almost broke up his marriage and ruined his life in
a lot of ways. But he made enough money that

(50:15):
he went to Indonesia on a wild goose chase because
he received a letter saying that they had a live
sasquatch like creature in a in an Indonesian monastery. And
he spent his money that he earned by taking it
on tour and going to places like the Spokane Colisseum
and the Portland Coliseum and whatever else. He spent all

(50:38):
that money on a trip to Indonesia on a wild
goose chase.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
Wasn't that they believed that.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
They had like the top of the skull, No, No,
that you're thinking of the Pingbolch skull in the Pingbolcha hand,
which is in the Himalayas a little bit different. They
said they had a live sasquatch in a cage. And
in fact, a number of years ago, a gentleman who
at the time was an anthropology student in eastern Washington,
I believe, contacted me and said that he was the

(51:05):
guy that Roger kind of lined up to pull some
shenanigans if they had to, because he was going to
go try to buy the sasquatch from the monks at
the monastery, but if things went sideways, he was willing
to steal it, and he had an anthropologist on hand
to help him with it if in case it ever
went that far. But it never did or anything, so
there was no nothing illegal going on, but apparently he

(51:27):
sure thought about it. So that seems like an awfully
weird thing to do if you're if you you know,
put somebody in a suit and filmed it. And he
died in basically poverty, in like what seventy two, seventy
three I think it was seventy three. I think, Yeah,
he died thinking that with more money he could probably
cure himself of the Hodgskins disease that killed him. So yeah,
it's unfortunate but weird behavior for someone who easily hoaxed

(51:52):
such a great and compelling piece of footage.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Well, and then the problem, you know, in all of
our industries is there's got to be some at Barnum
Jack Wad out there, who's got to do things that
really cast a pall over what we're trying to look
at and accomplish. And you know, you know, those are
things that have put a deep blemish on the fascination

(52:16):
for a lot of people. They just expected all to
be hokum and nonsense.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Yeah, it really gives the subject a black eye where
people hear about these hoaxes or these twisted tails and
they think there's nothing there. There's because the cool stuff,
the subtle slow erosion into the truth, you know, into
the truth, not of the truth. You know, this this
this erosion of ignorance as we learn more and more
about the animals themselves. That stuff isn't flashy, it's not sexy,

(52:45):
and that stuff doesn't get any play on the media.
Unfortunately because of it, you know, we have we had
trouble with our TV show for the same reason. You know,
it had to be you know, flashy and cool and
had to hook people because you got to get them
around for that commercial break. I mean, I I think
Bobo go to to test to this. I've got I
got hundreds of emails from people saying you're doing this
all wrong, you're banging on trees making noise. Nope, your

(53:07):
guys are jackasses. You should go sit in a tree
stand and blow descent and be quiet and thinking, well,
that's horrible, horrible television. First of all, no one's ever
going to watch that. But you know, at the same time,
like I've been pretty successful the last couple of years
of this bigfoot thing, gathering all sorts of interesting evidence
and information. But a walk on a road during the

(53:27):
day where one out of five times, one out of
eight times you go, you find something cool that's not sexy,
that's just time spent in the woods, and the media
just doesn't care. But they sure like when some jackass
dresses up in a monkey suit and waves at a train, right.
But again, even in those elements, there's something that's a
good takeaway. Like I was just like everybody, I kind

(53:47):
of bought into that, and I was like, that's cool footage.
But what I found even more compelling about it is
here you've got something that people could say, there's no
way a bigfoot could be there one second and gone
the next. From that footage, when that guy crouches down
into kind of the fetal position, he just becomes part
of the bushes. If you weren't paying attention, you wouldn't

(54:08):
have even noticed that there was a guy out there
dressed in a gorilla suit. So if that's possible, why
couldn't an actual creature that's used to these areas and
adaptable have evolved in a way that they could be
standing right there and you never notice because of the
way that they hide themselves and blend into their surroundings. Yeah,

(54:30):
that suit is actually commercially available, and it's pretty yellow.
It's kind of a golden yellow brown color. And I
know that that Colorado train footage thing that we're talking about,
that like the dead grass and stuff that it was,
that's kind of a similar color a Sasquatches, for the
most part, are darker in color, you know, not not always,
but darker in color. They are the color of the woods,
just like pretty much every other animal that lives in

(54:52):
the woods of great interest, and certainly they are very
very good at what they do, and most of the
time when they are seen, the first thing they do
is stand completely still. You can wear turquoise in the
woods and at two hundred yards stand completely still and
you're probably not going to be seen.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Yeah, it's that's what I think is so astounding about this.
And I've seen some of these beautiful documentaries that have
been made showing the adaptability of so many different wildlife species,
of how easily they can blend in and how their
bodies have learned to fool nature itself. Right, There's a

(55:29):
snake whose tongue looks like a bug flying around, so
when a bird comes down to get it, the snake
can get the bird. Right. That shows the adaptability and
just how brilliant nature is. So if a snake can
make itself look like a bug for you know, something
to eat, and all of these other animals have got

(55:50):
these ways of just adapting. The cuddlefish that becomes translucent,
octopus that can change multiple colors and kind of fade
into any kind of obscure background. That's really remarkable.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
You know.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
I know it's a big foot show, but I gotta
ask you. You said you've experienced demons in person.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
I'm very cautious with using that. I have been in
a few instances where I believe that the person I'm
dealing with may be possessed or at least dealing with
an oppression of something more malevolent because of the abilities
and things that are going on around that person, and
it has been very frightening. I can't say that, you know,

(56:34):
like I go and I see Bobo and Cliff standing there.
I've never had that experience where I just go and
there's a demon. But I've been in that situation twice
and it has been very disarming. Nothing like it ever
when I've been to, you know, actual hauntings. I think
it is so few and far between true demonic possession

(56:56):
or demonic realm existing in some of these locations. I
just think a lot of it is people's perceptions or
fear levels. Like you guys have no problem tramping around
in the woods even though there's bear and coyote and
wildcats and mountain lions out there. You're out there protecting yourself,
but you're still putting yourself in harm's way. I wouldn't

(57:16):
do that right. That to me sounds crazy. I'm more
afraid of being eaten by something that we know exists
in my search to find something we're kind of sure exists,
So to me, that's a different deal. But like with
the paranormal, I know ghosts exist. I can't tell you
what they are, but I don't run into the demonic

(57:38):
realm that often. That is such a very limited slice
of the pie. And I've talked to people that have
been terrified, and I'll tell your audience this is one
of my favorite stories. This woman reached out to me.
She goes, I had this paranormal team come in. They
were here fifteen minutes and left and they shared the
EVP with me, and they told me on their way out,
we have a demon and that they're not capable of

(58:00):
dealing with this. And I said, well, what was the
EVP the electronic voice phenomenon recording, and she played it
for me and you hear them talking in the background.
They're like, yeah, we're going to shut up our equipment.
And then you hear which sounds like somebody's stomach making
a noise.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
And that was it.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Maybe that was haunted by a frog, right. I said
that that was the demonic growl, and she goes, yeah,
And I said, well, what brought them to your house?
She goes, well, I have this wall with all my
collector's plates on it, and right in the middle was
my great grandmother's plate and I was sitting here in
the day and it flew off the wall and broke.
I said, Okay, did it make like a pentagram pattern

(58:39):
on the floor? No? Did it make like a six
sixty six with the broken shards?

Speaker 3 (58:45):
No?

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Did the shards jump in the air and try to
impale you against the wall? No, that's stupid. And I said, so,
why do you believe it was a demon? Well, it
was my great grandmother's plate. And I said, so do
you think today? Just go with me on this, do
you think that during roll call in Hell today, as
lucifers before his army, he says, all right, you bobo,

(59:06):
go out and start a war in the Middle East. Cliff,
I want you to go raise oil prices, and Dave
go break great grandma's plate. And she laughed, and I said,
do you realize the absurdity of that? Do you think that?
Is that like Satan's kind of off nephew, And that's
the only job you can trust him with. And we
talked about it, and I said, just out of curiosity,
where did your great grandmother get it? She goes, she

(59:26):
got it from her mother in law when they got married.
And I said, oh, what was their relationship like? Oh,
they hated each other. I said, So could it be
that great grandma came to visit you and saw that
plate up there and knocked it off the wall once
and for all to be done with it. And she laughed,
She goes, That's exactly what my great grandmother would have
been like.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
I got to ask you. You said, did the pieces
come flying? Have you talked to people that have had
that happen, like stuff break and then fly out them
and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Yeah, I've had people make some pretty remarkable claims, and
I have not seen that myself where things have leapt
up and flown. I've seen things move slowly from one
room to another, or I've been there and listen, guys,
I'm a skeptical believer. I've had experiences my whole life.
But I questioned them constantly.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Do you believe any of the people that told you
the stories? Those stories?

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
I like, yeah, yeah, Again, it's hard not to because
it's their story and I wasn't there, and I don't
want to be cruel to them if this is something
that happened. But on the Holser files, I got knocked
on my tail two or three times by an unseen force.
And had you asked me a day before I filmed
that first episode. If I believe that was possible, I

(01:00:35):
would have told you there's no way on God's green
Earth that's possible. That's that shtick. That's Hollywood nonsense. And
when I got knocked on my ass in the Holser
Files first episode at Whaleyhouse, you guys have been around
camera guys in dark, right, They're trying to get around
you to get a good shot, and they're tripping over
logs or whatever. I just assumed that one of the

(01:00:57):
camera guys had come around behind me in this pitch
black and tripped on the carpet and fell into me.
Because it was that heavy, it felt like something hit me,
like it was falling into me. And when you watch
the episode and I turn around, my brain just can't
figure out what I'm not seeing. There should have been
something there. I got hit hard and I can't wrap

(01:01:20):
my head around it.

Speaker 4 (01:01:20):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Do I believe it was a demon?

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Do I think it was a pissed off ghost? Yes?
Do I understand why it was so pissed off? Yeah,
I do believe I know why it was. You know,
a spirit, a Mexican spirit that had been kind of
a hero to his own people. And he was coming
back into San Diego with his group to try to
take back the land that had been stolen from them.

(01:01:43):
And how were they treated. They were hung or forced
to dig their own graves and then stand in front
of the grave while they were shot to death. So
I think that we uncover the story of this ghost
and why it's there, and give it a voice again
and help people have a name to connect to the history.
And sometimes it stops, it stops being that way it

(01:02:04):
could have been. I could have jumped to the conclusion
of demon very easily. And I was so lucky to
have a great production team that never once asked us
to say anything was a demon. They would ask, is
there any chance that's demonic? And then we would debate
it on camera, and then when we would calm down
and cooler heads would prevail, we'd often all, right, let's
not assume it's a demon. Let's assume it's this ghost,

(01:02:27):
and what can we do to help it. What's the
next layer of this story? What do we have to
do to help out? And so I come at it
from a different point. I'm not walking in a place
of fear all the time. That's something evil is trying
to do me harm. I understand ghosts might just be
an unsettled spirit if I elect to stay here and

(01:02:47):
watch over my family after I die in spirit form,
I'm a wise ass as a human. Why wouldn't I
be a wise ass as a ghost? If somebody's afraid,
why wouldn't I poke them? Why wouldn't I moment freak
them out? Right? I think once you get past that,
that's when that's when you start to have really interesting experiences.
And that's what I live for now.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Dave, we're kind of coming towards the end of our
time here, but you have a new book that's out,
and I'm wondering how much of this stuff is in
the book because the name of the book is Theater
the Mind, Tales from the Darkness, ghosts, UFOs, aliens, monsters,
and other strange stories of the supernatural. Like where are
these stories coming from that you wrote down in this
new book of yours? Like are we listening to some

(01:03:32):
of them right now? Or just like this is like
some sort of autobiographical thing, or tell us about the
book because it's brand new.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
It's a brand new book that I just released here
in January. The end part of January, and it's stories
that people have sent to me through the years and
shared with me to share with my audience, and a
few of the stories are my own examples. One is
a haunted doll that was given to me, and I
share the story of why it was given to me,
what unnerved the family so much that they demanded to

(01:04:02):
get it out of its house, you know, get it
out of their house. And then I had it for
a number of years and had some weird experiences, and
somebody else wanted it and they now are the owner
of that strange doll. So I just tell the story
and how it affected me. There's a story in there
about my experience in a haunted hospital when I was
there having my gallbladder removed. That story they actually featured

(01:04:25):
on a TV show called Haunted Hospitals. They didn't tell
the right story, but you know, it's a fun story
to watch unfold on TV and then read the real story,
which I think is creepier than what they they put out.
But and then the rest of the stories are stories
from people just like you and me that have been
in the right place at the right time, or had

(01:04:46):
an experience that they can't wrap their head around. Some
of the people just want to remain anonymous and do
not want their story associated with them because they are
military or law enforcement, or even moms that just don't
want their kids who love the paranormal listening to these
shows to hear what their mom saw or dealt with.
So I've shared those stories in ways that whoever says

(01:05:08):
I can involve their names, I involve their names. For
the people that ask me not to, I keep the
names out of it, and I just clear up their punctuation,
their grammar, flesh out the story a little bit, but
it is exactly as they told me. And that's what
we have to offer up for people. And this first
book has I think fifteen or sixteen stories in it,
everything from time slip phenomena to doppelgangers, changelings, this creature

(01:05:34):
called the Bloody Bones Man that's terrifying the black eyed kids,
ghosts and UFOs and aliens. So I didn't want the
book to be pigeonholed as a ghost story book. It
is a book that tells many different stories from many
different walks of life and many different belief systems, and
it's just these are stories I don't think should just
lay in somebody's drawer. So I'm happy to put them

(01:05:57):
out there. And the people that shared the stories with
me all gave me permission. As a matter of fact.
It's nice. I go on Amazon and look up my
book Theater of the Mind Tales from the Darkness, and
I've got, you know, over fifty reviews, and a few
of those reviews are from the people whose story I
represented in the book, and they were so pleased with
the way the story came out and me telling their
story in a respectful way and keeping their you know, sanctity.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
Didn't that black eyed kids think kind of come and go.
I really haven't heard much about that lately.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
Well, you know, we pinpoint the first story to Brian
Bethel in the late nineties who had an experience with it,
and he was a reporter who actually went on the
record sharing his experience, and then many people started talking
about it. Once we pulled that bandage off, other people
started relating stories. Now again, it's a great story that
fits into the realm of urban legend. But unlike urban

(01:06:48):
legend stories, which always happened to a friend of a
friend of a friend, and it was passed along. Brian
Bethel was the guy, and he tells you his story.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
That could be wrong. What wasn't that original originally from Portland, Orgon?

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
I can't remember where Brian's from, to be honest with you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
Yeah, my wife got interested in that. My wife's and
all sorts of weird things, you know, like paranormal stuff.
So she got interested in that, and she looked it
up and she apparently, well, if it didn't come from Portland, Oregon,
you can actually find out where something like that happened
in Portland, Oregon, like the cross Streets where that happened.

Speaker 2 (01:07:18):
Yeah, and he explains it in his article, So you
can look up Brian Bethel and Black Eyed Children and
you know, read his story as he tells it. So
I've had people share their stories, and again, they're really weird.
They kind of fit in that demonic and vampiric legend
and lore of they want you to follow them somewhere,

(01:07:38):
or they need your permission to enter your car or
your home, and they get very angry when you don't
allow them in. So it's an interesting element. And I've
heard so many different variations of these stories. You know,
if you'd like, I'll tell you when that happened here
in Minnesota. That is one of my favorites.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
It was, yeah, sure, it's a good way to end
the podcast here. Yeah, absolutely do it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:59):
Yeah, And this is not in the book, but it's
one of the stories I'll probably put in a future
book because I love it. We had talked about the
black Eyed kids. I had this great couple. They were
an elderly couple who listened to my radio show. We
were on ten o'clock till midnight every night, Monday through Friday.
And she contacted me. She goes, you know, after you
did that black Eyed Kid's story, I've got to tell
you what happened to my husband and I. And this

(01:08:19):
was a few years ago. We had all that rain.
Remember it just was like two weeks of rain. Dave.
I'm like, yeah, she goes, well, we were diligent listeners.
We would watch the news from nine to ten, turn
off the news, go into bed, turn on the radio,
and fall asleep listening to your radio show. And I'm like, well,
that's great. And she goes in this one night we
turn off the TV and we can hear what sounds
like kids running around out in our front yard playing

(01:08:40):
in the puddles and playing in the rain. And my
husband went over and he looked through the blinds and
he's like, God, what's going on. Where are these screwy kids?
And she said, honey, listen, it's been raining NonStop. The
parents probably just let the kids run around to burn
off some energy. We used to play in the rain. Okay,
they go to bed, that's it. About three o'clock in
the morning, she wakes up and her husband sleeps with

(01:09:02):
his back to the wall. She's sleeping closer to the door,
and she wakes up and there are three children standing
inside the room. There's a girl in the middle and
two boys flanking her, and she can see them from
the light that's in the room. They have jet black eyes.
She says, Dave, I closed my eyes. I took a

(01:09:23):
deep breath because I'm a good listener. I'm a good
student of the paranormal. And we know that in those
moments that hypnagoga hypnopompic states of when we're going into
sleep or coming out of them, we can have these
hallucinatory moments where dreams and reality come together. And maybe
I was dreaming about children and this is just a
layer of it. So I closed my eyes. I took
a couple of cleansing breaths, and I opened my eyes

(01:09:45):
and they were still standing there, and I started to
reach to my husband and I opened my mouth to scream,
and the little girl in the middle step forward, pressing
her finger to her lips. She said, ssh, we just
want to look at you. Oh right, she scream shakes
her husband. He gets up. They go through the entire house,
turning on every light in the entire house and that's great, husband, right,

(01:10:09):
He gets up with her to go find out what's
going on. They cuddled in bed, lights burning in the
house until morning time, and that's when they heard the
sound of kids laughter outside again, and it just unnerved
and freaked them out. But my favorite part of the story.
First of all, that was a weird, bone chilling tale,
But my favorite part was a couple nights later after

(01:10:29):
we share that story, I go down from our radio
station into the parking ramp and there's a cop car
park behind my car and he goes, are you Dave Schrader,
And I'm like yeah, with Darkness Radio, I'm like yeah.
He goes, yeah, we got to tell you big fans
of the show all the night crews on EMTs, firefighters
and police love your stuff. We don't believe it. It's insane,

(01:10:51):
but it's fun to listen to, and you know, you
get great stories on there. But the other night you
told that story about the three black eyed kids in
that woman's room here in Minnesota, and it was about
eleven forty five. You told the story and then went
to commercial break, And you go to commercial break, and
my partner and I start laughing about how absurd and
stupid this is. When we get a call over the

(01:11:13):
radio that an elderly woman is calling to complain that
there are three children in her front yard at eleven
forty five at night that she doesn't know and they
won't leave. And he said, and I looked at my
partner and he looked at me, and we shook our
head and turned the radio off and said, screw that,
we're not going. So I love the fact that the
cops were so unnerved by the story they wouldn't even
go out to investigate what was happening.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
That's fantastic. That is just fantastic. And I know you
said that story is not in your book, but you
also commented briefly saying this first book is blah blah blah,
And I thought to myself, Dude, with a lifetime of
experience and listening to people like you have, there could
be endless numbers of these books. And if you can
write half as well as you speak, man, I'm going
to read every single one. That's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
Well I've got I'm hoping to have the second book
out around June or July this year and then maybe
get the third volume out by Halloween. And I'd like
to put out these books and with the stories that
people share. So if your listeners have strange experiences with
Bigfoot or choopacabra, or aliens, or ghosts or weijahboards psychic phenomena,

(01:12:18):
they can email me Dave at Paranormal sixty dot com.
That's Dave at Paranormal six zero dot com and let
me know if I can share your story. We might
reach out to you in the future a share it
on the radio show The Paranormal sixty, or it may
be included an upcoming volume of one of the books
that we put out. And again, my job is not
to prove or disprove any of these stories. My job

(01:12:41):
as a curator to share the stories that people have
had happen. And the reason that I've taken that tack
is that there have been some of the stories I've
heard that are easy to make you roll your eyes at,
and then we've shared them on the air, and I've
received emails and phone calls from listeners saying, Dave, I
want you to know that I've had a very weird
life and I had an experience identical to that with

(01:13:04):
the exact same creature, and I thought I was insane.
Now that I know I'm not alone, I feel so
much better that somebody else has seen what I saw.
So I've removed all judgment and just share the stories
as they're given to me because I think they're fascinating,
interesting looks into the human psyche and belief system that

(01:13:26):
is fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
And this is the kind of stuff that you get
on the Paranormal sixty podcast as well.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
Yeah, we're live Mondays and Wednesdays on YouTube, so you
can watch the Paranormal sixty Live where I'll talk to
my guests and it's a video interview. And then the
audios released Tuesday to all platforms, So I have a
little Paranormal sixty podcast kind of network that has five
different shows. Monday, if you tune into the audio version,
you get New England Legends with Ray Auger and Jeff Balanger.

(01:13:53):
Tuesday you get the Paranormal sixty. Wednesday Monsters Lounge with
my friends Tresa and Jenny. Thursday you get the Paranormal
sixty News and then Friday we've got True Hauntings, which
is a show that comes out of Australia. These two
amazing ladies that kind of look at at paranormal stories,
de evolve them, try to understand them and weigh in

(01:14:13):
on if they think that, after what they've read and
the proof that's been presented, is it a real haunting
or not. So we wanted to make a network where
it was safe to come no matter what your beliefs
or interests are. And there are stories for everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
And of course your book is now. You can get
on Amazon if you want, but there's a better place
to get it because from I under sand Dave will
sign it for you if you get it from a website,
where is that?

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
Yeah? Now for people listening around the world, I can't
ship it out. The books are crazy. To send a
book to another country, it costs more than the book
would have caused to buy it, so you're better off
buying it directly from Amazon. But if you're in the
United States and would like a signed copy, just go
to Paranormal sixty dot com. That's Paranormal six zero dot
com and on that front page just scroll down you'll

(01:14:56):
see the place where you can order either a signed
or an unsigned copy of the book. As soon as
I get the order, I sign them and send them
out that day, so that's available, and I hope that
your listeners will come along on my journey and enjoy
what we have to share as well.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
Well. I'm looking forward to digging into your book for sure.
It's been a delight to speak to you, David. Thank
you so much for coming on the podcast. I sincerely
appreciate it. And when these other books hit the shelves too,
let me know love to have you back on because
you're just a pleasure to speak to.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
And guys, let me tell you this from the bottom
of my heart, thank you for the work that you
do and for both being so accessible to your fans
and to people that have an interest in this field,
because that makes the world a little smaller and it
makes people feel more like a part of something that
we can share these experiences, have these experiences and know
that there are people like you that are entertaining, educational,

(01:15:49):
and informative. So thank you guys for what you do
and for doing this amazing show as well.

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
Well, yeah, thank you too, Dave. It's good talking to
you again. We appreciate you coming on.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
I'll hopefully talk to both of you again soon.

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
Yeah, hopefully.

Speaker 4 (01:16:02):
All right, folks, Well, thanks a lot for Dais Shrader
coming out and talk on us today. Hope you all
enjoined as much as we did. And until next week,
you guys know what to do. Keep it squatchy.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you
get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram
at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on
Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,

(01:16:38):
and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag
Bigfoot and Beyond.

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