CLASSICS: Rick Noll!

Cliff and Bobo speak with long-time sasquatch researcher Rick Noll in this "classic" episode! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Big Food and on with Cliff and Bubo. These guys
are your favorites, so like to say subscribe and rade.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
It five star and.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Greatest gone yesterday listening watching Limb always keep its watching.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Hey, Cliff, we got a great guest.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Today, Yes we do. This is one we've been looking
forward to for a long time.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
I don't even want to find out what's going on
with you or tell what's going on with me, man,
I just want to jump right into this one, so
uh exactly. Yeah, why don't we just not waste anybody's
time and just bring it in. So our guest today
is a legend in bigfooting and I can always call
him the second generation. You know, it's not quite it's
not the four Horsemen level, although this gentleman worked with
all of the horsemen and many many more, probably of

(01:00):
the unsung heroes that don't get the credit they deserve.
So he kind of a second generation as far as
bigfoot goes. But you know enough of me, man, This
is Rick Nole. We have Rick Knowl on the podcast today. Rick,
thank you so much for spending some time with Bobo
and I today.

Speaker 4 (01:15):
Thanks, y Hey, how's it going all right?

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:19):
You are a man of few words, so we're going
to do the best we can to get you talking
on this one. I've always I've known you for a
long time. I'm not Cassie. I know you very well,
but we've certainly crossed paths many times. And you're a
man of few words and kind of quiet and in
the background. And I do have a great amount of
respect for people with your temperament and bigfoot. But you've

(01:39):
been bigfooting since the late sixties. Is that accurate?

Speaker 4 (01:44):
Yeah, yep. I started off down in Olympia when they
were the first time they tried to change the state
animal to bigfoot. Dick Grover tried to do that, and
he had this old style wooden piano down on capital
steps in Olampia and nobody was playing it, but on

(02:05):
top of it where these bigfoot casts. And he would
stop senators or whatever they the representatives were, their titles,
walking up down the steps to show them the cast
and say, we really want to have this animal protected,
and the best way to do that is to make
it the state for the state animals. That's what got

(02:28):
me interested in the beginning.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
But did you see this on TV or in person
or no?

Speaker 4 (02:33):
It was a news article, And so I went down
there and then I met up with him. And then
the next thing that happened was there was a sighting
pretty close to my house. A kid and his girlfriend
were driving a truck their parents, his parents' truck, and
it had one of those racks and they put ladders
in it stuff. Yeah, And he claimed that they saw

(02:55):
a bigfoot across the road and run into a sign
and bend it with their hand and the hand was
not lifted up or anything that was the height of
the of the hand on the end of the arm.
Grover came down for that too, and then he introduced
me to a project Discovery and then they saying one thing,
went to another and got more and more involved.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
You're a high school kid, weren't you.

Speaker 4 (03:18):
At that time? Yeah? Yeah, I was. I was a boy.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
That was just that.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
I think that was my last year in high school.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
Is that the same That must be the same sign
that Mark Marcel is now working hard to recover.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
Could be at scratch marks on the back.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, yeah. And this person lived out and I think
in Randall or something. I think Mark finally tracked the
person down is living in Randall, but he had a
tumultuous life and I think he abandoned the house where
the sign was in the front yard as the last
we heard so, but Mark has the address and he's wondering, well,
maybe somebody still has it.

Speaker 4 (03:52):
Who knows they could. But on my investigation of it,
the parents loaned them the truck and there was damage
under the truck, and the kid was late, and the
parents of the girl was upset that they were out
so late. I don't know what they were doing, but

(04:12):
it wasn't bigfoot hunting at the time until they came
home and said it was bigfoot they saw. And I
kind of think that maybe they backed into that sign
and hit it with a ladder or something from on
top of that that rack, But I don't know. I mean,
the scratches were even, they were at an angle, they

(04:33):
were curved, but I just don't see fingernails being able
to make that, and I don't think bigfoot wears rings.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Interesting, So, now, how did you hear about that sighting?

Speaker 4 (04:43):
I believe that was in report in the news.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
This is nineteen sixty nine or seventy or something. There
was no Internet, there was no collection of reports at
that time beyond John Green.

Speaker 4 (04:52):
I think someone heard it and they contacted the SEATTLEPI
that was the newspaper.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
So that you met. When you said Grover came down?
Where you talking about Dick Grover or Grover Krantz, Dick Grover,
Dick Grober? Okay, and what who is he? I'm not
familiar with that name, but it sounds like I've heard
it before. I just can't place it.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
Well, that was his claim to fame. And so when
he ever does anything with Bigfoot, he's looking for things
that Bigfoot interacts with other than people. So he was
looking for signs where it would run into a sign,
it would destroy a fence, it would uh leave handprints,
it would destroy the clapboards on a house, you know,

(05:35):
stuff like that. And so he likes signs.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
I'm one hundred percent sure. Now Grover is the name
that Mark Myrcel was telling me about. He is looking
for this sign. I'm one hundred percent sure of that.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
Now.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Now that's finally coming back to me. That's so interesting,
and you know that you might ow I didn't even
think about this. Now I've been working really hard lately
to track down the address of the house that had
the uddy handprint on it in nineteen sixty two. And
Fort Bragg. You wouldn't be able to help me with that,
would you, Rick Fort Bragg? You know that muddy handprint

(06:07):
that was on the outside. There's a picture of an
artist reconstruction of it in John Green's books that the
artist rendition of it was done by Chuck Edmonds, the
artist teacher, the art teacher from Ashland, Oregon.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
That sounds like something that Renee would have. Most of
the stuff was surprising. Renee collected a lot of stuff,
and John used it in his writings and his books
and stuff. John didn't have a lot of physical material.

(06:40):
He didn't collect that stuff. He would have it. But
if if anybody would collect that, that would be Renee.
So probably his his son up in Canada has it.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
But how did you meet Renee and those guys?

Speaker 4 (06:54):
Ah?

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Renee and I get it, man, I can't remember what
I had for breakfast yesterday.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
Well, I remember all the stories, I just don't remember
exactly the first time. Let me see, here's the first
time I met John Green.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
We're gonna go through all of them. You might just
whatever you remember.

Speaker 3 (07:14):
Let us know.

Speaker 4 (07:15):
Well, I guess the first person I met was actually
Peter Burn, so that would be the first person I think.
So I was going to college. I had that interest
in bigfoot, and I did a paper in anthropology and
I saw in the news about Peter Burn having a

(07:36):
museum and the Dallas actually it was an information center
as really was not a museum, but anyway, I went
down there, talked to him, asked him about coming up
to talk at the school, and he said, sure, he
could do that. He has an actual program that he

(07:57):
can show. So I hooked it all up. Out of
them involved.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
Which college was it?

Speaker 4 (08:03):
That was Green River Community College. So he gave the
talk there and that was pretty cool, and we sort
of associated ourselves. We had a little club kind of
thing in the college and we would go out and
look for stuff we got on the TV. We got
on a couple of Northwest TV shows about looking in

(08:24):
the woods for Bigfoot, and we would take trips down
to see Peter. And I also went with stayed down
there with Peter for a little while and when he
was still married with d D and we went on
a couple of trips, not not a whole bunch, but
a couple of trips out in the woods on some

(08:46):
called in reports and I drove his vehicle his internationals
and what happened was there was a report he wanted
me a check on. And at the time I was going,
I was in school with David Smith and David Smith

(09:10):
I had David and I hooked up way before Peter Burnet.
But David and I were contacted and we went out
to North Bend because there was some footprints and there
was just a couple and they were in the news
and they had showed a guy supposedly finding these tracks.
And then the next day there was another newspaper article.

(09:32):
So I already knew about this sighting but or not
sighting but footprint fie before Peter called us. And the
next day there was a guy that had a broken
foot and there was like this weird thing that was
attached to the cast underneath his heel sticking out like

(09:55):
a heel on a shoe. I guess because he to
wear cowboy boots or something. I don't know, maybe he
had to have a heel on the cast so he
didn't walk with a limp or something. But I don't
know how he broke his foot or anything like that,
but they had a picture of his cast facing the
camera and him in the background. So the casts looked

(10:17):
really huge, his foot looked really huge, and he had
three toe sticking out the top. Those weren't cast, and
that the footprints in the ground were three toed, they
weren't five toed, and they didn't have that little bump
in the bottom. But it was kind of sort of similar.
I don't know about the size because there was nothing

(10:40):
to compare the two. So that was the next day
that that picture appeared. I still have the articles, and
so I was planning on going out there. I asked
David that he wanted to go, and then we got
a call from Peter and he says, you need to
go out there and check this out because it's getting
a lot of news down here. So Dave and I
went out there. We camped, and we ran into Dennis

(11:00):
Skates and his buddy Dennis Skates and I forget who
the other guy's name used to live in on the
way up to well, it was on highway too. It
was in like around concrete or something like that, and
they were helping John Greenow to do investigations in Washington

(11:21):
State and he Dennis Skates was was a character. But
they were trying to cast a track and they destroyed
everything they tried to pull it out. They were making
fun of us because you know, we said we were
with with Peter Burn, and at that time John Green

(11:41):
and Peter Burn already hated each other. So I saw
their cast. I said, you know, you got a problem
with that. I don't think it's going to pull. And
they said, we use city seck or you don't know
what you're talking about. We know what we're doing. So
we left and we came back later and there was
just pieces of the plaster all over the place because
it broke when they tried to pull it, and so

(12:04):
we just took pictures of it because I didn't have
any casting material at the time, so we took pictures
of it. And then we walked around and further up
on a dirt road above the river north fork of
the Stilly I believe, or not Silly, but whatever that
river is named now. But we walked up above there
was a road that went up and there was a

(12:25):
flat like there used to be a logging show where
they put the Wench and stuff up there, and the
trucks would get loaded and there was hundreds of tracks
up there, Chris grass all over the place. So I
took a bunch of pictures of Dave trying to space
himself out on those tracks. Whoever made those tracks, they
were pretty long in between. And we came down the

(12:48):
road to go back to where we were camped. We
had tents and there was Peter and Deedie and another
person that worked with Peter, and they all said, well,
you know what, we're going to stay here and we're
going to investigate a little bit. So we all camped
and we went back up the next day and Peter

(13:09):
went out in the woods, went and looked at some
of the tracks, and he found mouse that was stepped on,
and I got a picture of him pulling up a
squashed mouse and from the footprint, and then he said,
we were going to go and talk to the actual
person that found the tracks, and then we're going to
talk to the person that had the cast. So we

(13:30):
went to the house where this guy lived in North Bend,
got in there. We were sitting around his wood stove
and he's telling a story and everything, and then we
heard a knock on the door and walks John Green,
and Peter and John just their whole body shook, looking
at each other like like you know, a dog in
a camp. We're about ready to fight. And so we

(13:54):
finished up what we were saying and we got out of there.
But John got out of the building and waited. Well,
we left and then we went over to the other house.
That's how we met John Green. That was the first
time I met John Green.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
Did he hold it against you that you were working
with Peter at that point or.

Speaker 4 (14:11):
As he did? He didn't want to talk to me
at all, And later on he didn't want to talk
to me at all. And then it was only until
I met up with Renee and became friends with him
that John started worming up to me.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
Were you a fan of John Green? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (14:26):
He was. The first books, the first books I read
about it was is Big eight and a half eleven
by paperbacks, you know, the first the red and the yellow,
the yellow one first and the red one on the
track of the file of the Sasquatch file.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
That must have suck, because I mean, like I can
imagine like having one of your heroes come in and
also he thinks you're a dick right on the bat,
just yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:48):
Yeah, And you know, and Renee never wrote. Renee hadn't
written his book yet, and Grover wasn't involved yet. Peter
hadn't written a book yet, and I started seeing flaws
in the chink of Peter burn at that time. He
asked me to go to Little Eagle, South Dakota to
look into some bigfoot reports back there. And so I

(15:11):
went back there and I met up with a guy
that wrote a really nasty book. And I can't remember
his name, but I have his book and it's a
classic now everybody likes it. And I talked to him.
He says, so you work with Peter, huh. I go, well,
sort of. He asked me to do stuff, you know,
And I go out and I investigate farm he can't
get everywhere. And I got a phone call from Peter
later that night saying, you know, Rick, I need to

(15:33):
have I'm being heckled by this character Reneede to hind
it and I need to do something about it, and
blah blah blah blah. And it ended up where he
went to use my name to by having me call
Renee from Little Eagle saying I'm going to be at
such and such a place. Can you meet me there?

(15:54):
And Rene Hardy knew me at all, but he went there,
I met Renee. That's that's not when I met him.
So I met Renee. I just don't remember when it
might have been. I might have met him at Oh
I know where I met him. Okay, there was a
bus driver and Hope that claimed to have a big

(16:15):
foot run across the road in front of him, and
all these passengers saw it. Turned out to be a fake.
So I was there, Renee was. He had just left
and we went into Harrison afterwards. I met up with Renee.
Then I remember, that's when I met him the first time.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
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Speaker 3 (18:58):
Was that pretty tense, those things, with the the divisions
there and the rivalries already? Like, was that was it
would it be uncomfortable to those early get togethers.

Speaker 4 (19:07):
Yes, it was. It was pretty uncomfortable at UBC conference.
That's where I first met Grover Krantz and he came
in and he was like, matter of fact, this is
the gun I would use, this the bullet I would use.
And he turned that place into to kill or not
to kill and had nothing to do with what the

(19:29):
original story was about that conference, you know. And for
the time, I didn't have a lot of money and
that was like one hundred and fifty bucks to go
that thing. And it was years later that they actually
produced a book about it and published the papers. That's
also the where I met Alan Barry and we listened
to the first We were the first people to hear

(19:50):
in the Bigfoot community, the other than Alan Berry and
morehead those tapes and we thought that was interesting. I
met Bob Gimmin there, Peter Atheson.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Real Murderers, Rother that's an all star Hall of Fame lineup.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
Yeah. I don't think Matt was around at that time.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
No, he was too young.

Speaker 4 (20:10):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't think anything in Ohio was going
on at that time either. The stuff going down in Texas,
Canada was they had.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
The movie Oh Boggie Creek.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
Yeah, I think that came out a year later after
Roger Patterson's movie or something.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
That was seventy two seventy three in that zone there, Yeah,
the legend of Boggie Creek, so that, but you know,
it was reverberating up throughout the nineteen seventies of course, right.

Speaker 4 (20:37):
Yeah. So I don't think anybody from down there was
at this conference. Either was two scientific so Sprague was there.
There was a bunch of people that were you know,
listened to as scientists. The first time I met Meldrum
was at one of the UBC Harrison Hot Springs conferences
and he was really young dead and Steinberg was there also.

(21:00):
That's when I met Steinberg and Krantz was there. I
got a picture of Krantz with the skull and he
liked to shock people with things that he would say.
I don't know why, but hey.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
It's that personality. Like you know when that famous clip
is probably in search over one of those you know,
where he says that somebody who you know, talking about
the cripple foot stuff in Bossburg, like whoever did this?

Speaker 4 (21:25):
Is?

Speaker 1 (21:25):
You know da Vinci like creativity and way smarter than me.
And that person doesn't exist. And you know when he's
when he lays that line down, you can almost see him.
You see his eyes are smiling and he can his
mouth just starts to curl up because he knew, he
knew he was planning a bomb there, and he thought
it was hilarious.

Speaker 4 (21:44):
I went when I was at his house one time,
I had cast at his feet and took a picture
of him and his dog with the dog up on
his shoulders.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Oh, yeah, you're the photographer.

Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yes, I'm a photographer that took that, and that's why
he's posed that way. That was just one of his
favorite pictures.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
You're a photographer in the Smithsonian. That's pretty impressive.

Speaker 4 (22:06):
I also was at the Puella when Mark Pinacher, the
ex cop, said that he saw a bigfoot and the
kids saw the bigfoot, and there was tracks up there,
and then there was a bunch of recordings of screams
and stuff, and someone would run around and pound on
people's houses. Because what happened was the areas started growing

(22:31):
and the cities were expanding into the woods, and that
was the hilltop above Pualla and there was new housing
projects going in there. There used to be a lot
of animals up there and they were being pushed out,
and they thought that maybe Bigfoot was one of those
animals being pushed out.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
Since you were involved in that, did you ever meet
Joel Hurd?

Speaker 4 (22:51):
Oh yeah, yeah, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
He's become a good friend of mine. Oh yeah, he
lives locally. When he's in town, we try to have
lunch or something, and he's always at our events. So
if you do ever want to come down to do
an event, I can almost guarantee Jobel show up.

Speaker 4 (23:05):
Yeah. So you see most of the Bigfoot researchers, they
probably have more information and data on other researchers than
they actually do on this phenomenon.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, I think you're right. Well, even still nowadays you
look at the YouTube or something and all the bigfooters
are talking about themselves or somebody else. They're not talking
about the animals. It seems right.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
How much did you get to work with Bob Tipmos?
Did you get out on the field of Tipmos?

Speaker 4 (23:29):
You know, i'd never met Titmus really, Yeah, I didn't
get to meet him.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
What about Patterson?

Speaker 4 (23:35):
No, I didn't meet him, but I joined his club. Yeah,
I joined that club, got the book. I was too
young actually to get over to Yakba, even though my
relatives lived over there. But I did meet Bob, and
Bob is a lot different now than he was at
the UBC conference. It was pretty reserved back then, not

(23:56):
believing in anything, and now it's almost like he's a proponent.
I don't know if he's seen the light or what,
but in his later days, but he didn't really talk
about that much. Then.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Did you get a chance to spend any time in
the field with any of these folks, because I'd like
to what my ultimate question will be, can you compare
and contrast their field methodologies here?

Speaker 3 (24:17):
You're impressed with the most Mayan Chinski.

Speaker 4 (24:20):
Oh, yeah, he's good. He's really good. I don't know,
you know, sorry, Monto. He was supposed to be a
field person for a museum back east, and he was
on a couple of shows. I took him out. He
saw some elk prance and says, there's some humans here.
I'm like, okay, that was another person that's really good.

(24:44):
I didn't go out in the woods with Well. I
went out of the woods with Peter Matheson, and I
was shocked that he doesn't have that much experience because
he you know, he was out with gorilla researchers. He
was all over the place.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
He went to Nepal, he went out with melgum And
and min Chinsky. I mean I was I was impressed,
like he had some Yeah he got out there.

Speaker 4 (25:06):
Yeah. I mean when I was in the coast cart
I read his first book on bluewater white death. It
was called Blue Meridian. It was about the great white sharks,
and they contracted him to be on the on the
ship and write a book about it. And man, I
just loved that book. And when I finally met him
at UBC, I thought, well, you're really young to write

(25:30):
that book. I mean, that just blew me away. So
then later on when I met him and he said, uh,
when he wrote snow Leopard and stuff. I loved the book.
But when I met him, he was more like a hippie.
He would walk around barefoot out in the woods out there,
and I'm going, what do you Why are you walking
into barefoot? He says, I just feel more uncomfortable doing

(25:51):
this is what I did all over the world. I said, well,
you know, you can get diseases that way out here,
because we have goats and elk and not not very
many out there, but deer and goat and bear, and
they have parasitic worms that can or that are in
the soil and it can get up in your go through

(26:11):
your heels and your the sole of your foot. Freaked
him out. He was wearing his shoes after that. And
then I found out that he died a few years later.
That was so sad. But I fed him. I cooked
him in uh and uh doctor Meldrum breakfast, and I
screwed up the soft boiled eggs pat but he made

(26:32):
him anyway.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
But you guys, is that when you had the rock
incident when you were a cat with.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
Yes, Yes, that was on We were filming King Kong,
the real King Kong. Gichan Epitheca is the real King Kong. Yeah,
he was there with Meldrum and Isak Masinski's was there
and we went across the river with the horse and stuff.
That was the second That was the first movie we
would especially we did, and then the second one, Giganta,

(27:01):
was out further in the same area North Cascades. So
that's sort of you know, you've got to ask people,
the researchers, you know, what are you doing? Are you
are you one of these ambulance chasers. You go after
like a sighting or do you have a study area?
And if you have a study area, how do you
define this study area? So I told everybody that I

(27:26):
have a study area, and Renee asked me what is
a study area? I said, well, it's an ecoregions. It's
like a watershed, but it's not cut off by water.
It's an ecoregion. So everything in that region has flora
fauna very similar to one another, and if a species
is in there, it's part of the food chain somehow.

(27:48):
So you know, you study everything in that area. You
just don't try and look for bigfoot sightings. That's if
you just do the bigfoot sightings, then that's ambulance chasing.
So if I wanted to find a black bear, and
there's twenty thousand of them here in Washington, I wanted
to find a black bear, would I wait till I
hear about someone seeing one or would I just go
out in the woods to where I know the food

(28:10):
that they eat is.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
And unless, of course, somebody sees one in your area.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
Well, even if you get there, what are you going
to see? The only thing we've ever seen is footprints.
Nobody ever goes out to an area a researcher. At
least someone says, I saw a bigfoot here, I'm going
to go and see what I can find, see the footprints,
and then actually see the creature. The only person I've
ever heard someone similar than that would be Patterson. He

(28:36):
heard a bunch of footprints were up in that area
over and over and over and over, and he went
there and he photographed one.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
Right.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
We actually we did that met the museum because the
museum is just a front, so can we can pay
our bills and go to the field. Basically, we have
a study area we've been pulling some prints out of
and one of my guys saw a sasquatch there in August.
But again that's a research area, as you're saying, you know, like.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
For me, I look at the food sources mainly, and
it could be taste, it could be you know how
the quality of the food. Certain areas have better berries
in other areas because of the minerals in there. They
taste better, they're not as tart, or they got more nourishment,
or there's a lot more of them. Maybe they're not.

(29:20):
They're Himalayan blackberries. There, or maybe native native ones with
the Indians used to hoard over are not as good
as the Himalayans. That the Himalayans have a lot more
berries than our native ones, but the Himalayans have a
lot more stickers and they grow. It's like they take

(29:41):
over their weed. But I also look at the fish,
and the fish could easily hide a population of animals.
The fish they are on a cycle of going out
for a couple of years and coming back, and they
go up a river when the river is flow at
a certain speed and go up and they spawn and

(30:03):
they die and they end up on the shoreline up there.
And so I like, I go. I told this to
Doug Hicheck. He goes, well, you've been doing rick a
phone call recently and I said, well, I've been going
up in the woods and I'm visiting these historic places.
Goes historic place. I go, yeah, down in Oregon, I've
been going around to some of these historic places where

(30:23):
they have big ones. I'm what I'm looking for is
these specific blocks in the river where salmon can't make
it up. And he goes, what are those? And I said, well,
they're waterfalls basically, And he goes, you've got to do
something else waterfalls. You got to research some better than waterfalls.
I said, no, no, that right, there could actually be

(30:47):
something to go to go up to a waterfall and
then from that waterfall down on the river. If salmon
go up there, either it's the pink shnow chum saw
guy whatever, they'll end up on the shoreline there dead
and something's eating, something's taking them. It could be birds,
it could be bear, it could be bigfoot. Who knows.

(31:10):
He still doesn't think it's a good idea for me
to tell people I go up to waterfalls and a photograph.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
I think that's fine. I think that's great, because yeah,
you're not You're not going to know positive or negative
unless you do it, you know. And we've been looking
and doing stuff for fifty sixty years now and haven't
gotten really far. So I think that you have to
try some of these random things that make sense, that
has a nice logical foundation, and see what comes of it.

(31:38):
Because we're missing something. We're missing something, we're missing a
big chunk of their behavior that would make it a
lot easier to get some photographs of them or further
expand the cast inventory or whatever. We're missing something, so
we got to try these things. Stay tuned for more
Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right
back after these messages.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
You're a professional photographer, Rick with like, do you carry
a film camera or it's always digital? Do you for
the clear shot? You can, you know, do a lot
more with the film. Do you ever use those or
there's just too inefficient.

Speaker 4 (32:16):
I have a film and digital and video, so I
have a lot of different cameras. I got like thirty
different cameras. It just depends. I carry probably five or
six cameras when I go, And depending on what I
want to do or what I'm thinking of, or the
light or the conditions, is the camera and that I

(32:39):
take out? Now that will also dictate what kind of
lens I'm going to have, so you know, like I
sometimes I have a six hundred millimeters lens with me.
Sometimes I'll have a wide angle. It just depends. Most
of the time it's not a zoom, it's fixed or
prime lens. So yeah, I one thing that Renee into me,

(33:00):
he's always have a camera. That guy, he had a
camera where he went. That's why I never trust him.
He had a camera everywhere. You went, so you name it.
You had a camera.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
I always thought you'd be the best guy researcher because you
are a professional photographer. And I thought, and you're in
a great spot and you go to the same spot
so over and over, and I thought, if anyone's going
to get a good picture, it's not blurry, and you know, indistinct,
it would be you.

Speaker 4 (33:25):
Yeah, I've gotten only a couple of blurry And that
was I said. Some camera traps out and something knocked
the trees down that the cameras were on, and I
got a picture of something black moving but it wasn't
very good. I couldn't tell what it was. But most
of my pictures of other animals come out, you know,

(33:49):
real clean, sharp and everything. So it must have been
just a shadow. Because if it can stop a deer
from moving, or an elk, or stop a bear from moving,
it's going to stop a bigfoot. Unless see these things,
they don't have tools. We're not finding, they're not using fire,

(34:09):
they're not processing their foods. You know. Every once in
a while we hear people saying that they hear them
chattering like they're talking, or that they are throwing things
rocks and sticks and stuff like that, or some of
these tp like structures that there's stick formations they're saying
that maybe are attributed to Bigfoot. But to me, I

(34:33):
think they're just another animal, and I think that they're
just so rare that it's hard to find them. They're big,
and people are forgetting that when they go out and research.
I mean, I went with a couple and they're well
known researchers and they're on their hands or knees going
underneath BlackBerry bushes looking for evidence of Bigfoot stepping there.

(34:54):
There's no way you'd see the evidence before you even
got down to the ground. It's like logic left their brain.
If something that big was going through, like an elephant,
all the vegetation would would indicate that something big went
through there. So I don't know. I know that rivers
like Washington has thirty five thousand rivers and streams and

(35:17):
creeks all together, and there's a lot of fish there.
I know about all the animals that are there. I mean,
there's not many cougars. There's only fifteen hundred, and it's
only like less than a less than twenty per thousand
square miles of territory that that's the home range for cougars,

(35:39):
and there's a hell of a lot of deer. They're
starting a population of grizzly now in there. I think
that Washington, right next to BC has more sightings and
stuff because BC has grizzlies and if anything that would
be a danger to a bigfoot, a grizzly, I think

(36:00):
so if there's grizzly there, I think there's less sightings.
And I also, you know, strongly believe that an animal
like a bigfoot would avoid any type of confrontation where
it could get injured the less. I think it's a
It might be a natural law that the population of

(36:22):
a species, if it's a low population number, that the
individual is more cautious in its life, not consciously saying
I'm not going to take the chance of being skewered
by an elk's antlers, but they look for the easy way.
I'm going to go after the young that was just born.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Well, yeah, that makes sense. That's why they raid trash cans,
that's why they're eating roadkill. That they're always going after
the easy stuff because because they are smart. That's what
I would do, and I'm smarter than the average bear.
I'd like to think and I would be doing I
would be doing the same thing. The average bear might disagree,
but that's my opinion.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
What's weird is, you know, John green goes the only
thing I found similar in my database. He gave me
the database and I entered in a lot of it
in the BFO. That's why the Washington sightings are so high.
But the database in there. He said that, you know,
the only thing I could find was that when it

(37:22):
rains or when there's a certain amount of water, is
when there is sightings that happen. So there's two things
that I thought, Well, the fish like it when it rains,
and when the rivers have a seven foot per second flow,
that's when the salmons start going up, and so that's
a source of food. And the other is is if

(37:43):
you look at the states that have these large populations,
for the most part, there is a few that have
large populations and this doesn't work out. But if you
look at there's like thirty one states that have elk
breeding and the rest of them don't that elk breeding
gives a pretty good meal at certain times of the year,
and those areas where the breeding and the calving occur

(38:08):
have been in areas where it seems that bigfoot sightings
and reports and information coming out of those areas are
more aggressive for some reason. And so like, the elk
population for Utah is pretty huge, and Oregon is really huge.

(38:30):
Washington it's fairly huge. We're talking sixty to one hundred
and fifty thousand elk. I'm surprised that Oregon has as
many as it does, one hundred and fifty hundred and
forty one hundred and thirty something like that.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Oregon has the third highest number of forested acres of
all fifty states after Alaska, and crazy enough, but Georgia
has more forested acres than Oregon does.

Speaker 4 (38:55):
Yeah, that's a that's a makeup they're making up for
when they cut all the trees down, so all the
trees that they ever knew.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, we were number two, and we being Oregon, we
were number two until it's a few years ago. I
get so, I guess our logging caught up to us
and maybe perhaps George's reforestation.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
So, hey, Rick, I was going to ask you, how
often do you find scat and do you find it
in association with trackways? And if so, is do you
notice that dietary changes during the year. And do they
hide the scat that you've found.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
No, I don't find that much scap. And the scat
that I do find from other animals, the majority of
the time, I find it in the middle of a
road like they're scared and they just defecate right there. Now,
I have seen a lot of bear right near a
place where they are eating a lot of berries. I
guess it looses up their bowels or something. Yeah, and

(39:52):
I've seen where you know fish. I mean I didn't
believe that. You know, maybe a bigfoot could catch a
fish they don't have like a bear does. But I
pulled fish right out of the river. I pull pulled
steel head and stuff like that. And I found some
weird stuff right next to where those I did that.

(40:13):
You know, it looks like someone peeled a fish and
the head was gone, the tail was there, and the
skin was pulled back. Now, I don't think a bear
does that, and I know an eagle wouldn't do that.
So what did it?

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Well, I got them catching fish. I got a pretty
interesting story. I was up talking to people in tweets
up there, you know, in quinn Out Reservation, and they
were telling me because they had a group of teenagers,
like a mob of like anywhere from eleven to fourteen
juvenile bigfoots would pack up around their village and they'd
see them all the time for years. It quit probably

(40:49):
it really slowed down about fifteen years ago. But they
had a story about watching in daylight during a salmon
run the group of young bigfoot's, about ten or eleven
of them in the river and the Quets River right
where it does the big horseshoe bends around of the village,
and they watched them jumping in and they would herd

(41:10):
the salmon into the shallow areas and like, and they'd
grab them and then they'd run off and they'd hold
it like a football and run away like not to
share it. And they'd run up somewhere on the embankment
and needed it alone and wouldn't share. And then when
it got down to like three or four bigfoots left,
they just gave up because there wasn't enough of them
to corral the salmon anymore.

Speaker 4 (41:31):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Yeah, who knows, Man, that seems like an awful lot
of bigfoots to be seen at once.

Speaker 4 (41:36):
Yeah, I've heard that. I think I heard Chris talk
about something like that up in Canada.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Yeah, I mean, Ice have some more data points supporting
something like that. But there are a couple a couple
of reports of them peeling back the skin of other animals. Yeah,
there's one I know where he's sasquatch was holding a
fawn like a baby deer and peeling the skin off it.
And there's another one I think with a dog. That
might be a few more in my records. I some

(42:02):
of the memory to recall them.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
Well, in Louisiana, the DuPonts, the cattle dog went out
and when the squatch was around, it pulled the hide off,
and the dog came running back with no hide left,
and it just ran back screaming and then died like
twenty minutes later.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Wow, bummer.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
Yeah, I had, I've had I've seen stuff like that,
but it was another dog that ripped off the skin.
They can do that.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
So nowadays, you've basically escaped the spotlight, which is I
congratulate you on that. By the way, you've escaped the
spotlight in Bigfoot, which is kind of nice. And you
can do things quietly at your own pace and without
anybody else criticizing or yelling or screaming or whatever they
like to do, because bigfooting hasn't really changed, you know,
since the nineteen seventies or before. What do you do, like,

(42:52):
like how often, like say during the good months where
it's more the woods are more accessible in the mountains
and whatever, how often do you get out and what
does an expedition look like for you nowadays?

Speaker 4 (43:04):
Well, I like to look for tracks because that's the
immediate concern. So I wait until it rains, and then
when it rains, that's when.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
I go out in the rain or after it can be.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
In when it's when it's in there because when it
starts to rain, because it'll wash a lot of my
sand away.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and
Bobo will be right back after these messages. Are you
finding tracks in the same general area that you found
them before?

Speaker 4 (43:40):
Yeah, And there's some specifics to where the tracks are. First,
you know, you look at you only look in areas
where tracks are are going to be seen or where
they're going to be made along a river. If if
the river is like loose gravel, I mean you're not
gonna you know, go there. If I spots on rivers,

(44:02):
where it's good conditions for it. Then sometimes on the
side of the roads depends. If the vegetation is growing
up to the edge of the road, that's no good.
So I wait until either that is all washed away
or it's just muddy. And you look for prints along there.
When I'm walking down a dirt road or something, I

(44:24):
walk on one side going up and on the other
side coming down. I don't walk in the middle of
the road, and I find a lot of tracks along there.
They come and they stand by the side, you know things,
stand by the side of the road, check it out,
and then cross it and call the other side. So
it's just common sense. A lot of times. It's almost

(44:46):
like if you know, you're like you're playing a game
and you don't want to be seen, and so you
might go out in the open. As soon as something happens,
you hear some or you see something in the distance,
you think that they could see you. You change your

(45:08):
body shape, you squat down, or you jump, or you
fall down, or you get out of that line of sight.
You try and avoid. It's almost like an evasion kind
of technique. And deer do it too, but they do
it a different way. They can hop and then drop
their tail and they turn their butt towards you, and
then they turn around look at you with their butt

(45:28):
towards you, and it breaks up their look. That's if
they think you are a threat. I don't think elk
do that, but a lot of times elk will lower
their antlers and it's almost like they're behind a tree
with limbs and a bear I think. I don't think
bears of that bright and they just they waddle along.

(45:51):
They don't care their eyesight is poor. There's a sense
of smell is good. I have a blind cat and
it acts like a bear at home, and it just
waddles around, whereas I got another cat and it zings around.
It's like super hyper sensitive to airy stimuli. But that

(46:12):
blank cat is is really lethargic, and so I think
the eyesight is really, you know, one of those kinds
of things. And Bigfoot has got eyes like us, meaning
that they're both forward facing. They're not on the side
of the head like a deer or even I think
a bears pretty much on the side of the head too.

(46:35):
They have to turn their head a little bit to
see what's right in front of them. They're kind of
the same cat sizes are they look straight at you,
They're not on the side of the head. They're a predator.
So I don't know if you know I've heard where
you know, the eyes facing straight ahead as a predator.

(46:58):
But anyway, I go to places where it's noisy and wet,
and that's waterfalls because I make a lot of noise
if I'm walking around trying to get up and down
into into some deep canyons, and with a waterfall there
nothing really hears you.

Speaker 1 (47:17):
And as that panned out, if you if you've had
some positive results by frequenting these waterfalls.

Speaker 4 (47:23):
I found a few interesting things that look like tracks.
I wouldn't nothing i'd cast or take a picture of,
but they look like something had gone through that area
with a soft foot. Didn't look like it was a boot,
didn't look like it was a small foot. Knocks off
some you know moss on a rock that is a
large moss section of it on a rock, and then

(47:47):
further down there's another rock and it's within the bigfoots
reported you know, step it could it could reach one
to the other with one foot a human would be
able to. So that it's interesting. And sometimes I see
where rocks are picked up and disturbed and they're turned over,

(48:07):
and you would think that maybe it was, you know,
like a hoofed foot that kicked it, but it isn't.
It's like only you know, two or three inches away,
but it's turned completely over and it's the same distance
like a bigfoot would biped would that's the size of

(48:27):
a bigfoot. So I've seen stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
Have you seen a bigfoot yet, Rick, No, I haven't.

Speaker 4 (48:35):
I've seen some strange things out of the corner of
my eyes, could be in a bird or something like
that moving flying by and just caught your attention and
then it drifts into a shadow. But I've also read
where apparently we tell stories in our heads of what

(48:55):
we're seeing. It goes directly to the front of our
brain and tells us a story I see is completely
different than what anybody else sees because it's all interpreted
by my brain's storytelling ability. I see something and it's
telling me the story of what I'm seeing. What you
see is telling you the story of what you see.

(49:16):
And I really recommend everybody reading a book called The
Science of Storytelling, and it goes into a lot of
really interesting stuff. It's more than just being fooled by
your eyes. It's your brain that is interpreting what your
eyes see. Your eyes don't have a memory. Your eyes
are just interpreting signals. Your brain is what has the
memory and what's doing stuff with what your eyes are seeing. So, no,

(49:40):
I haven't I don't claim to see a bigfoot. I
haven't seen a bigfoot. It's not like I'm hiding that
I've seen a bigfoot. And if I ever saw a bigfoot,
i'd probably tell people, yeah I think I seen one. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
So for more paranoid listeners, he's not hiding anything from you.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
What's the most compelling audio, Like, have you had like
a class being counterlike that was intense, or you like,
you know, you got your hair up like anything like that.

Speaker 4 (50:09):
Well, on the Schook of Expedition, I got my hair up.
That was there was some some really strange stuff there.
And I know Matt claims that some of it was
just doctor bam bam uh talking in his sleep, but
it wasn't. It was not him talking in a sleep.
It was bizarre and and it was it was spooky.

(50:34):
Other sounds that I've heard the most compelling sounds that
I've heard have been at Bumping Lake. My parents called me.
They were hunting over there, and this is over on
the cascades, going over to that cheese and it's a

(50:57):
it's a cabin area, and they were hunting and there
were some tracks found and I got the pictures from
the people that took the pictures sent them to me.
They were slides, and I sent them down to Peter
and he never returned them, so I was sad. I

(51:17):
took some made some prints room, so I have that.
But anyway, there are really some good prints in snow.
And the sounds that they were hearing there were like warning,
you know, for humans to get out of there. They
heard these rifle shots and it was almost like, you know,
there's another tribe of people that were saying, you know,

(51:41):
get out of our area. This is our hunting ground.
And and so it was kind of eerie listening to
these these screens over there. And I tried to recreate
the screens my parents had recorded on a little eight track,
not a track, but a little a cassette recorder, and
I transferred to a bigger recorder and then it went

(52:02):
to the University of Washington had them. It was the
first time I ever heard of the audio department there
and had them tried to recreate it so that they
could get it cleaned up and like they make the sound.
So they did that with a synthesizer and put it
on there, and I tried to use that for call blasting.
That was way back, that was late seventies. Then I

(52:24):
took it to the University of Washington, so that was
before call blasting. I wouldn't call it call blasting, and
I tried it a couple of times, and I didn't
have the power behind there for portable stereo. You just
played it in your car and the finished product I
had to record it after playing on a reel, to
reel on speakers and then record it onto a tape machine,

(52:47):
then take that tape and stick it in. I had
an eight tap eight track tape deck and an eight
track tape recorder, and I transferred over to the eight
track and put that into the eight track player because
because that's weren't there at that time.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
Were you ever stoked like you thought it was a
big foot, like you know, hearing like the crunch and
falling you out or anything like that or bluff charge.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
Yeah, I've been stocked, but it was a bear, and
I stalked. Another time it was a cougar, but not
a big foot. They showed themselves the bear. I thought
bears were stupid. I still do. But we were falling.
I was falling a bear, and all of a sudden,
I see my footprints and the bear was on top

(53:31):
of them. Go wait a minute. I traveled around in
a circle and the bear is chasing me.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
They're smart dogs, you know, basically is what they are.

Speaker 4 (53:42):
You know now the cougars, they're different. They're scary. I'll
tell you. When I was on that horse and we
got off the horses, we were crossing the river. The
river had been washed The bridge there was washed out,
so there has been like five years that it's been
washed down. So that side of the river was all

(54:04):
overgrown on the end, and there was a lot of
logs down on the road stuff. So we were we
crossed the river on the horses. The horses got all
beat up a crossing that river. They were bloody on
the other side. I felt sad for them. And we
got to the point where my boots were in the water.
It was deeper than I thought, and I was surprised

(54:26):
that the horses didn't lose their footing and started swimming,
and then I went to ruined my ten thousand dollars
video camera. It was it was scary, but when we
finally got over there, we dried off a little bit.
And then we're walking, or the horses were walking. We're
on their back, and we come up to a log.
We have to get off, and then we get them

(54:47):
to come over the log, and then we get back
on and we have to get the camera ready and
stuff like that, and I have a pistol on and
we keep on going. So after about the fifth log
across the road, there was a big one and I
had to go under the log instead of over it,
and the horse had to be led over it on

(55:08):
the side of the road and threw a bunch of
mud to get across. And then we got back on
and I'm going, this is getting old. I don't know,
you know, when are we going to turn around? This
is this is getting ridiculous. And we'd only traveled, you know,
maybe four miles on the horses with all these down trees,
and I get back up on the horse and we

(55:29):
went I don't know, I had the video camera in
my arm, and it was the camera lens was pointed
towards the guy that owns the horses to my left,
and we're walking on the horses just I don't know,
maybe ten feet and the side of the of the
road on my side had a lot of forest up there,

(55:52):
and it was a steep hill, and then there was
this big rock. I didn't see anything. And then I
get past the rock, just like I don't know, not
very far, maybe a foot to two foot past this big rock.
It's like above my head, about at least say eight
feet above my head. I'm about five feet away from

(56:14):
the side of the road, and all of a sudden,
this thing lands right from the horse. It's got a
tail sticking up and it's brown and it's wagon and
it leaps off the center of the road and over
to the side, and then you see it moving through
the forest and it was a cougar almost. I could

(56:34):
feel the air going past my.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Heads straight out of that Sasquatch movie from the nineteen seventies,
you know that one. Ron Olson kind.

Speaker 4 (56:43):
Of really I didn't know that, but.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
Well, yeah, they're like they're their caravan of horses, you know,
got attacked by a cougar or whatever.

Speaker 4 (56:51):
So I couldn't believe that. And then I found out
that that's where the Game Department releases their cougars that
they catch that are too close to populations. They come out,
they catch them after people see them, and then they
release them out there. No wonder, there's cougar's there.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yeah, yeah you think.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
Yeah. I wanted to ask you what's your thought on
tree breaks, glyphs and cheaping structures.

Speaker 4 (57:18):
You know, I've never seen a TP being made, so
I don't have an explanation for it. The twists, this
is what I would say. If there's a twist in
a limb or something like that and it goes to
the right, there's a good chance that's just natural. Somehow
it happens, especially with lightning strikes. It affects some sort

(57:39):
of structure inside the tree and they start acting weird
and everything. This is a right hand universe and things
travel in that direction to the right. Everything twists to
the right for some reason. That's how the electrons go
around the atoms and how It's just how things work

(58:00):
in a toilet bowl. Yeah, if if it goes around
the opposite way to the left, then I start wondering
what could have done that? And I don't know what,
but I never I've seen the you know, the the
teepee like structures out in the woods. I don't know
what causes them. It doesn't make sense when I look
up and see where these things are coming from, that

(58:21):
they could have been blown over there and land that
way doesn't make sense. It's almost like, is someone someone
climbing up these trees, breaking them off and throwing them
down like spears?

Speaker 3 (58:34):
How about sasquatches in trees? I know you're like, you know,
you're you got all evergreens around you for the big
part of where you're at a lot of evergreens, and
we hear either more in deciduous trees than they climbing
the trees. But what's your take on that? Do you
have any experience with that or ideas.

Speaker 4 (58:49):
I've seen a couple of black things up in trees
and I took in some pictures, but I couldn't tell
what it was and it wouldn't move, And I've walked
up to the tree, I can't get up there, and
so I just thought better of it, thinking that it
must have been you know, a cub or a bear,
up there, what kind of it was at least one
hundred feet up in the air, and they were fir

(59:13):
and pine. They were pretty far up there, and where
they were was close to the trunk, not out on
a limb, but close to the trunk. And the limbs
were so thick that parts of it were broken up,
so it didn't look like it was one big black thing,
but you knew it was.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
Did you see claw marks on the near of the base.

Speaker 4 (59:35):
No, I didn't, so I don't know what it was.
That's telling Yeah, yeah, that was That was that Rattlesnak Reservoir,
which is close to the talt Indian are not tilt. Yeah,
it's a tolt, but it's not the Indian reservation. It's
the watershed for Seattle, so it's out by Izakuah.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Is that watershed off limits?

Speaker 4 (59:59):
Yes, so you can walk in. If they catch you,
you get in.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
Trouble, gotcha.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Yeah, of course. We have the bull run over here
that you're not even allowed to walk in there. But
on the other side of the hill there's the Dallas
Watershed and that's where Peter Burn suggested I go big footing.
We I already knew about it by that time, I
already found a spot over there, and you're allowed to
drive through it. You just can't stop and get out.

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
Supposedly, when I was doing cedar salvage, I worked in
that area, and it's really rugged. In the water down
there in that reservoir is just crystal clear. Oh man,
looks so beautiful, and it's really dangerous because the way
it's so steep walking on those hillsides. They hire people

(01:00:42):
to come in and do cedar salvage and also to
do pre commercial thinning. They call it that. It's not
really pre commercial because they don't allow commercial thinning out there,
and the RESI in the watershed. But the way you
use a bow bar, it's hollow on a chainsaw and
you cut it and then these trees that are about

(01:01:05):
to well to maybe the most is two and a
half inches in with at the base, and you cut
up and it falls into the middle of their boat bar,
and then you flip the saw and the tree goes
flying and it leaves that stump there. And it's a

(01:01:26):
small stump, but it keeps the ground from washing away,
and it allows certain species or certain trees to grow
and other ones to not crowd them. So you just
thin the trees there and you get tired, and you're

(01:01:47):
at an angle, a real sharp angle on those hills,
and when you're cutting them, you end up cutting them
like spikes. So if you fall, you're going to be skewered.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Maybe impaled by your own work. Right.

Speaker 4 (01:02:02):
Yeah, So you know, there's a lot of dangerous stuff
out there, and for big One to be out some
of that area, it's just amazing that we don't find one,
you know, debt from something that humans have done.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
But as you mentioned, there's so few of them, and
where they like to hang out aren't exactly places people
love to go.

Speaker 4 (01:02:20):
Right. This is an animal that is very in tune
with with this, with the ecology. It has a very
specific niche and it's a it's adaptive and so uh
that's how if it is, if there is such a
thing as a big Way, it's got to be so
adaptive that it can survive in low numbers and it

(01:02:46):
is commanding of its environment. It knows it has very
good mental models of when when uh, vegetation changes and
when this that if humans are interfering in acting with
the environment around them, what dangers those are When the
food comes up in this area, when the food comes

(01:03:06):
up in that area, all sorts of things like that,
Like you know, they can tell when the weather is
going to change. I don't know, it's just it's got
to be so in tune.

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
Yeah, it's phenomenal, phenomenal animals all around, and the lack
of proof is testament to that, I think in a
lot of ways. Well, you know, Rick, we're drawn to
the end of our regular episode here, but we have
a member section if you can stick around for a
few minutes, because we haven't even touched on the Scuokum stuff,
the Skukum casts and I have a ton of questions
about that, So why don't we end the regular recording

(01:03:40):
for this week and we'll talk about the Skukum expedition
in the member section. Okay, thank you very much, Rick,
I really appreciate you coming on, Bobo.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Yeah, it's almost like getting Elvis in the middle to
get you on here. We've been trying for a while.
So thanks a lot for coming on.

Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
I don't call it that thanks.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
Okay, folks, we're going to take it to the member
section now, the Patreon folks, and so thanks for listening,
and thanks to Rick Mill for joining us, so until
next week, you all keep it squatchy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
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(01:04:38):
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