Ep. 271 - John Zada

Cliff Barackman and James "Bobo" Fay speak with photographer, journalist, and author John Zada! John's book "In the Valleys of the Noble Beyond: In Search of the Sasquatch" is one of our favorite sasquatch books, and focuses on the Great Bear Rainforest of coastal British Columbia. John discusses his lifelong interest in sasquatchery, the experiences he had while writing the book, and some of the most memorable encounter stories he heard along the way! 

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Pick up John's book from the North American Bigfoot Center here: https://northamericanbigfootcenter.square.site/product/book-in-the-valleys-of-the-noble-beyond-by-john-zada/667?cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=5

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Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Big Food and Beyond with Cliff andBobo. These guys are your favorites,
so like say subscribe and raid itlive Stock and me grates on us today
listening watching Lim always keep it squatchyAnd now you're hosts Cliff Barrickman and James

(00:29):
Boobo Fay Bobes. What's happening man, Not much, let's go on with
you. Nothing nothing, just bigfootstuff and feeling pretty good about the couple
of things. Been been feeling alittle bit more alive lately because of this
thing. Man did that one ofour advertisers, Magic Mind, gave us
some samples and stuff, and doingthat for a few days in a row,
and now feeling pretty good. Whatabout you, mat Did you get

(00:49):
your box? Yeah? I got. I guess I got mine before you
did, because I I did itfor a few weeks already. Yeah.
Yeah, I've been doing it fora few weeks. Yeah. But I'm
feeling better already, man, feelingbetter already. And I will say this,
man, it's not a substitute forcoffee. I'm still drinking my coffee
in the morning. But it's justa slight uplift, you know what.
I like it bobs. I don'tdo it first thing in the morning.
I do it in the afternoon fora lift mea. Yeah, I kind

(01:11):
of a lift me up if Ican't nap because I'm an old man,
now I might nap, but ifI can't nap, then I'm definitely doing
one of those things. It isa little sharper, nothing crazy, nothing
crazy, because you know that feelingwhen you get like too much caffeine Indian
stuff. Oh I hate that.Yeah, I don't like that either,
But this is not like that.It's just a little bit of just It's
like sharpening a picture that you didn'tknow was quite out of focus. Yeah,

(01:34):
I mean, I've definitely noticed it. I mean I felt a little
more energy, and I felt morea little focused and concentrating, and I
noticed an improvement for sure. Dude. They worked on it for ten years
doing research and development with medical researchersand advisory were doctors. It was toy
scientific. They went through hundreds ofiterations to perfect the formula, and you

(01:57):
can tell. I mean it's topquality. You know, I was a
little concerned about when we first gotthese samples or whatever from Magic Mind is
one of my most cherished times ofday is in the morning, having coffee
with Melissa, and I didn't wantto get rid of that because I just
really really enjoy that, you know. You know, someone asked what someone
asked Johnny Cash is a true story. Someone asked Johnny Cash what paradise is
and said, coffee with her,now, you know, talking about June,

(02:22):
his wife there. And I feelthat same way about Melissa, and
I didn't want anything to replace thattime. But this is not that sort
of product. This isn't some sortof caffeine energy drink sort of thing that
that hypes you up and keeps yourolling and then crashes you and stuff.
This is something that's just a littlebit kind of a boost. I like
doing it in the afternoon actually forthat very reason, just when things are

(02:43):
getting a little sleepy, my oldman Cliff is getting ready for a nap
or something. Pop one of thesethings in this drink, a little thing.
It doesn't taste that bad either.It's good for me, man.
That's how I choose to use these. It makes you relax, like,
it makes you feel more relaxed kindof, but also more alert and more
focused. Yeah, that's stuff supposedlylike kind of keeps the coffee rolling all
day too, which is kind ofnice because I do love I do love

(03:05):
me a caffeine buzz, you know. Hell yeah. Bigfoot Beyond listeners have
a limited time offer that can beused right now to get up to forty
eight percent off your first subscription ortwenty percent off one time purchases with code
Bigfoot LT twenty at checkout. That'sb I g FOT LT two zero at
checkout. Great man, good job. Yep, yeah, stove. Did

(03:29):
I tell you about Melissa casting aprint? No? Oh yeah, So
have some big news in the Barrackquanhousehold. I took Melissa out and she
cast a footprint. Oh yeah,congratulations. Yeah, that's the first time
she put plaster in the ground onone of these things. She's seen footprints
before, but she had never actuallycast one. And I don't know if
I told you or not. Ican never remember when I talked to you

(03:50):
guys, because this like I talkto you guys all the time. But
so, there's this location that westarted working. It's a new Spots.
It's the one that's two hours fromthe house. Were finding footprints on an
old abandoned road. We were findingfootprints above that old abandoned road in a
swampy area, and above that swampyarea there is a ridge. Well,
I was digging into the maps andstuff, because you know, I love

(04:12):
me some maps, and so I'dnoticed that there was an abandoned road on
the other side of that ridge,on the other side of the swamp,
on the other side of the ravine. Right, So I'm thinking, well,
gosh, you know, if they'recoming up out of there, crossing
the road going to the swamp,maybe they're going on the other side of
the ravine. They said, well, I got to go walk that abandoned
road, because that is by farthe most efficient way to find sasquatch footprints.

(04:33):
Go to a decommissioned road and startwalking it slowly, looking at everything
in the ground. Right, SoI go there. There's a couple of
weeks, like maybe two weeks ago, now maybe a little less. I
went there with a couple other folks, and sure enough we found tracks on
the abandoned road coming from the directionof the ridge. So my hypothesis that

(04:53):
they were coming up out of theravine, crossing the area going to the
ridge, I have some data tosuggest that might be accurate, we'll see.
So anyway, I found two setsof tracks, and so one of
them was pretty good actually, soI sent I scanned it and everything,
and didn't have time to cast it. It was getting late in the day,

(05:13):
and I figured, let's go backand do it. So Melissa and
I we went back there on thetwenty third of June. And I know
that because the twenty fourth was ourseventh year anniversary. Great great event in
our lives. Of course, Issulation'smost important thing I've ever done is married
that woman. But anyway, wewent back the day before because yeah,
why not let's go to the woodstogether. And you know, she's not
a big foot per se, butshe is married to me, so she

(05:36):
stuck with it and wants to participatea little bit. So we took her
out and she's the one that castit. Barely shows a toe has a
really nice world to find a heel. But it was still just a first
of all, a great trip tothe woods with my wife, you know,
and of course we're looking at sasquatchprints. How cool is that?
And then other stuff happened that Igot to tell you about on an entirely
different episode because it would take waytoo long. But I went to the

(05:58):
Blues and had my mind blown.It was pretty amazing. But we'll catch
up with that at some other pointbecause right now we have a guest waiting
on the line. We don't keepthis guy waiting for too long, So
let's go ahead and do that.Okay, let's jump into our guests,
and we're very, very pleased tohave on with us. John Zada.
He's an author, he's a photographer, he's a man of the world,
a traveler, intergalactic traveler perhaps,I don't know. We'll get into that

(06:19):
in a minute. But he haswritten a fantastic book that has come back
to my attention called In the Valleysof the Noble Beyond. Actually I wrote
it a number of years ago,and I'll tell you, man, it
is exquisite. This is going tobe a great episode because this book is
fantastic. I'm about halfway through readingit. I kind of forgot about it
and got back to it. Buthe published his book back in twenty nineteen,

(06:42):
and let's bring John on and youcan tell us about it. So
Bigfoot and Beyond audience, welcome JohnZada. John, thank you so much
for coming on. Bigfoot and Beyondwith us. Guys. Good John,
Hi guys, thanks for having meon. Happy to be here. Oh
it's great, it's great, AndI was astonished to find out you're actually
listened to us. I am along standing original from day one fan of

(07:03):
the show. Yes, indeed,Oh my god, what's wrong with you?
That's a little shocking. Was so, so let's bunch you here.
You're like, no way, Imean, I only I only listened to
three podcasts. One is you guys, the other one is a podcast about
spies and espionage, and then thethird one is about writing and self publishing.

(07:24):
And so it's uh, you're you'rethe three that I that I go
to for podcast listening. Yeah.Well that's fantastic. Thank you very much
for your kindness and support. Appreciateit. Yeah, And of course the
reason we're having you on is nowis your book in the Valley of the
Noble Beyond. Now, as I'mreading this book, and again i'm a
little over halfway through at this moment, and again I apologize to you before

(07:46):
we started recording, because you actuallygave me a copy of this book a
little while ago and it just endedup in one of my two do piles,
and I never got to it untilI realized, oh, shoot,
got to have it on prou it'sranting how great this book is, and
so I picked it up, andI'll say, man, it is a
very well written book. It isfantastic. And one of the things I
like about it it kind of remindsme of doctor Bob Pyle's book, right

(08:11):
because you're not I mean you're you'rea bigfooter, certainly because you're doing this
about bigfoot, but you're not likethe standard bigfoot, the standard squat or
that I think we have today.You approach this almost more of a naturalist
sort of way. It reminds meof the great writers of the nineteenth century,
when before science was really a thingand people call themselves naturalists. And

(08:31):
it's more almost about an exploration ofthe subject, the animals and the locations,
and it is just so beautifully writtenand just so hats off to you
or heads off to you or whateverI was going to say. So,
yeah, so tell us about howthis book came about a boot? A

(08:52):
boot. You're a Canadian, right, so you're going to hear more than
your fair share of a boots.But it's a bit of a life long
sort of backstory. There's the stuffthat happened before and then the more recent
events. But let me just sayI started in this area, or my
interest began in my preteen years.I was an avid reader of John Green's

(09:16):
books, and he's if for thosewho still at this point don't know who
John Green is, he was ajournalist who lived in Harrison Hot Springs,
British Columbia. He was the mayorof the town for a bit and he
wrote for the newspaper there. Hewas the first real, kind of significant
journalistic compiler of eyewitnessed reports, andnot just in the British Columbia area,

(09:39):
but then he was He basically wroteabout North America in general, and so
I fell in love with his books, found them at the library. I
was an early reader, so theadult level, I guess pros wasn't really
a huge obstacle for me, andthat really kind of kicked it off.
And but what ended up happening waslater on, as I got into my

(10:00):
twenties, after having sort of leftthe subject a bit behind, I kind
of got dragged back into it andthere was sort of a series of events
that took place and I kind ofmentioned them in the book as the backstory
of this journey. But essentially,I was at work one day. I
had this kind of joe job,and one of my friends at the job

(10:22):
came up to me and he said, you know, one of our colleagues,
her name was carm She was likean executive assistant secretary, had come
back from a long weekend a fewhours north of Toronto, and she had
claimed to have seen something crossing theroad at night. And my friend,
who was at the job at meknew that I'd had this sort of passing
interest, this old childhood interest inthe Sasquatch. So I went to Carmen

(10:45):
and I'm like, you know,tell me what has happened, right,
And she didn't want to talk tome. She didn't want to talk about
it. She was like, no, no, nothing. She denied that
she had told anyone anything. Butas time passed, she did eventually speak
me and essentially told me that herand her boyfriend were driving up in the
sort of cottage country area in anarea and you're calling Wood, Ontario,

(11:07):
just sort of north of the city, and she had seen what she described
as this tall, hairy, giganticmonstrous fur covered man crossing the road at
the stop sign when they stopped.And she knew nothing about sasquatch, knew
nothing about bigfoot. She grew upin this really kind of sheltered Italian traditional

(11:28):
family. This was before Google andbefore like any of this stuff exploded on
the Internet, so I was kindof a bit shocked. And she described
the creatures shuffling across the road likedoing taking these sort of like these very
fluid movements, and once I heardthat, I knew that this was not
something that she imagined or made up, and that essentially pulled me back into

(11:52):
the subject. And then from thereI attended a Sasquatch symposium in Vancouver in
nineteen ninety nine, where I meta lot of these sort of big original
characters from the world of bigfooting,from Renee de Hinden to Grover Krantz to

(12:13):
John Bindernagel, who I eventually becamekind of pals with, basically because at
the Sasquatch symposium, I was doingdocumentary work at the time. It was
early in the journalism career, andI decided, you know, I'd like
to really do like a documentary filmabout this subject and about John so him
and I began a kind of afriendship and he came to Ontario a bunch

(12:35):
of times to investigate Ontario Reports andI filmed him and the documentary never got
made, But that was sort ofthe horror sort of middle phase of my
interest. And then now segueing intothe book, I later, you know,
went from from video and documentary anddoing TV stuff to becoming a writer,
like an actual you know, likea print and online writer. And

(12:58):
the way the way things happened withthe book was I went on a press
trip in twenty twelve to a areaof the north and central coast of BC
called the Great Bear Rainforest. Andit's essentially a coastal temperate rainforest region that
is about maybe the size of threeor four Olympic National Parks, really big

(13:22):
trees, grizzly bears, whales,a lot of First Nations communities in there.
And I went out there to essentiallydo an adventure piece for a magazine.
And I mean, in the backof my mind, I knew that
I was going to Bella Bella andBella Coola and Clemto and all these places
that John Green had mentioned in hisbook and had visited on several occasions.

(13:45):
But what I didn't expect or realizewhen I got to these communities and it
was going to be a two weektrip, was as soon as I got
there, the towns were completely absorbedin a bunch of recent Sasquatch reports.
And it wasn't just I landed inBellabella and that's where the trip began,
but it was happening in all threecommunities. And to make a long story

(14:09):
short, you know, my interestand passion was reignited, and I didn't
do so much traveling or kind ofinvestigating the adventure travel aspects as I did.
You know, I began investigating theSasquatch reports, and by the end
of the two week trip, Ididn't want to leave, and I was
like, oh man, I gotto come back. I got to come

(14:31):
back and write about this in alonger form, in a longer format.
And that's when I made the decisionat the end of the trip in twenty
twelve that I would come back anddo an entire summer long trip and write
about it in a kind of anarrative nonfiction sort of way, with characters
and dialogue and plot. And that'sthe genre of the book that you refer

(14:52):
to. Basically, stay tuned formore Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo
right back after these messages. Areyou at the ninety nine conference? I
was at the ninety nine conference.Yeah, oh man, I was so

(15:13):
bund to miss that. I thoughtit was in the news and I was
like, God, I could havewent to that if I had known about
it. All sorts of yeah.I mean, all the kind of major
characters were there, So I kindof feel a little bit like I just
sort of tapped into that history parta little bit. Oh that's so cool.
You know, everybody on the lineright now is super interested in Bigfoot
history, and you know, atevents like this because it was so quiet

(15:37):
at the time and now, youknow, you you throw a rock and
you're probably gonna take down a coupleof Sasquatch conventions, you know, but
at that time they were very,very rare, and everybody who was in
the game at the time either wasthere or wanted to be there. It's
really really cool that you had achance to go do that before everything blossomed
into what it is now, ifthat's the right term. So back to

(16:00):
the book here a little bit thereis a certain tinge I guess of travelogue
in the book as far as thewriting flavor. But again, I really
do see it as more of anaturalist sort of perspective on things, a
holistic maybe not an outsider, buta holistic I'll say outsider, but that's
not quite the word I'm looking for, and holistic outsiders perspective on this.

(16:22):
What are your big takeaways after spendinga summer up in that area where sasquatch
sidings are probably pretty common, Iwould imagine, just part of the environment,
part of the natural landscape there.What are your big takeaways and what
surprised you and what didn't surprise youabout spending time up there amongst the native
communities in these places. Yeah,and just before I answer, I mean,

(16:45):
I think that's a good point thatyou'd made earlier, that the book
is multi layered. I am andwas a travel writer prior to taking the
book on. So I did.I did really want to not only write
a book that would explore the Sasquatchphenomenon, but would sort of look at
the nature, the First Nations,culture, the history of the area,

(17:07):
the geography of the area. Andso I mean in terms of things that
surprised me. One of the thingsthat surprised me was I was expecting the
indigenous communities to be generally unanimous abouttheir take on the phenomenon, meaning that
that almost everybody would believe in themor think that they exist or you know.

(17:29):
But in fact, there was alot of there was quite a lot
of people who didn't actually, andI wouldn't say that they're that they were
the majority, but I would saythat I learned to not take it for
granted that the citizens of these communitiesall had the same position. I mean,
I think I think it's like alot of people, either indigenous or
non indigenous, who spend a lotof time in the back country, you

(17:55):
know, and are really good atwhat they do in terms of in terms
of navigating the back country, ifif they haven't seen it one themselves,
they think, well, it couldn'tpossibly exist. So there were quite a
bit of people who did sort oftell me not, it's all kind of
a it's all kind of a story, or so that kind of caught me
a bit off guard. And alsoit was really a lot of flesh and

(18:17):
blood type perspectives up there as well. Whereas I also kind of came in
with the assumption that there'd be alot of the sort of the spiritual,
the mystical, the sort of thepseudo religious. I was actually quite surprised
by how many people were just prettymuch yet it's, you know, among
the among those who did know aboutthe animal and did you know, support

(18:40):
its existence, that it was fleshand blood, and you don't really get
a lot of the a lot ofthe WU or the UFO stuff mixing it
up there. It's it's it's prettyit's pretty sober, pretty sober minded takes,
I would say. And I thinkmaybe that's just because a lot of
the people who were pro bigfoot haveseen them and and they're like, it's
definitely an animal. Well, itmight have something to I'm just kind of

(19:03):
hypothesizing here. It might have somethingto do with just the necessary practicality of
living in those places. You know, like it's they they are fishing,
you know, for a lot oftheir meals or hunting, they're they're they're
just living, you know, They'redoing what they need to do to live
and get by and and do whatthey do in their environment. That's the
people are. And I think Ifind people like that are very much more

(19:25):
prone to just accepting that these arenormal animals who are cool or weird in
various ways, but like just perfectlynormal animals, as opposed to the people
who are attracted to the more paranormalside of things, who are very often
you know, deeply religious, andthen fit these animals into their scheme of
there or you know, or ora prone to paranormal proclivities, or horoscope

(19:48):
driven or crystal crystal wearing folks andall that sort of stuff, just like
it's a much more practical lifestyle.I think, No, absolutely, absolutely,
and I mean I would even Iwould even say that it was shocking,
even to the extent to which itwas considered normal by some people.
It was. It was almost likeit some people wouldn't bat an eyelash if

(20:08):
someone reported a sighting in in theirpresence or like if the subject came up.
It was almost like they were talkingabout like vegetables in their garden kind
of thing. It's it was soit was it was almost considered mundane in
some cases. So I was.In some cases they were even laughing at
me a little bit that I wascoming up here and you know, you
know, there there were some therewere some difficult issues facing the communities revolving

(20:33):
there was there was a big firethat had burnt down one of the band
stores in Bella Bella, and theywere they were also doing battle with some
big oil companies that wanted to buildpipelines up up the coast. And people
were actually taking me to task forlike, well, you know, we're
into big Foot two, but whyare you here like writing about that.
You can be writing about like thepolitics, or like, you know,
the difficulties that we're experiencing because theoutside world doesn't know about us. And

(20:57):
so there was there was a bitof ten actually a little bit of tension
around that when I first arrived inBella Bella, and that was part of
the plot of the story, wasyou know, the communities accepting you and
and and having to gain their trustand the faux pause, and you know,
the mistakes that I had made interms of ingratiating myselves, especially among

(21:18):
the Heltzok in Ballabella, which waswhich I sort of made part of the
hurdles and the challenges in the inthe you know, in the quest theme
of the story, I would say, yea, I would imagine getting in
would be a very very difficult,slow process because any sort of small rural
community like that, that would bethe case. But when you add the
native element, the First Nations peoplewho I mean, I live in America,

(21:41):
of course, and god knows,our government screwed them over a really
bad I'm assuming Canada did the samething to their native population. Generally speaking,
I don't know the history up therenecessarily, but I imagine as much
a matter. Yeah, just complicatethings, right, Yeah, so you
felt you were pretty successful with gettingin at least with a small number of
people, who, of course,once you know one or two people,

(22:03):
they start talking to their friends.Oh he's cool, you can talk to
him. Yeah, that's yeah,that's that's exactly what happened. I was
really lucky in that I had,you know, social media in a sense
saved the day. Had I gonethere decades earlier, it would have been
more of a just showing up onthe front door. But I just networked
a bit. And because I had, you know, I guess when you
work as a journalist and as aas a documentarian or what you you kind

(22:27):
of learned to introduce yourself to peopleand everything. So I basically got in
with one of the characters in thebook. Her name is Alvinah an older
I guess, matriarch in the communitywho's well respected. She had a bed
and breakfast. So I basically stayedwith her during my time in Bella Bella,
and it was in a syce.She almost she pretty much adopted me.

(22:48):
I was almost like like a familymember, and so she put in
a lot of good words for me. And as soon as as soon as
people knew that I was staying withher, it earned me a little bit
of her respect, because you know, generally people who go up there will
stay you know, in the moreto you know, I guess like the
lodge or the more tourist they accommodations. That they were a bit shocked that

(23:11):
I actually stayed in the community,and that had a knock on benefit as
well in that she connected me witha whole bunch of people who had reports.
And so basically what happened was andthis is this goes to answer your
your earlier question about the takeaways andthe surprises. Was that and I don't
know if this is some kind ofa serendipitous thing that happens in small towns

(23:33):
or if it's a West Coast thingbecause I mean I'm an eastern Er basically,
but it was just incredible, andI wrote about it in the book
that the minute you start to kindof investigate something, or you go you
speak to somebody about a report,or you follow something up, and then
it just one thing leads to theother, to the next to the other,
and you're basically connecting all these dots. And there's this kind of almost

(23:56):
synchronicity serendipity that happens where where youjust sort of you're on this kind of
stream that kind of takes you fromone report or siding or place or venue
to the next, and then whichspanned the different towns. It didn't just
happen within Bella Bella. It justlike I would I would meet somebody,
for instance, I'd be in balabelland somebody who talk about some person in

(24:18):
Bellakula who had a story or whatever, and then I would just like meet
them by accident on the ferry orit. Just the entire trip was that,
and I devoted a little section toexplain that, but it's so hard
to to put into writing that kindof sort of stream of consciousness happening that
is life, and so I endedup with so much more material that I

(24:40):
was than I was even able towrite in the book and left me with
with with I mean, I reallyhad to kind of sift and pick and
choose all the different things that wouldgo in because you couldn't really write forever.
Well, when you're flowing with life, you know, life encourages you
along the way. I just tome, I've always taken that as a
yeah, I must on the righttrack, because weird things are happening.

(25:02):
Exactly. Yeah, we very muchfelt that way. Now, I'm something
that you mentioned a little while ago. I'm so glad you did. You
mentioned that the lack of homogeneous perspectiveon sasquatches, you know, like that
like people view them in various ways, and imagine, you know, some
are probably a little bit more culturallyinvested in it, or perhaps a cultural

(25:22):
perspective on the animals. Some arejust like, oh, that's the thing
that here that lives here. Wedon't eat them, so we're not going
to worry about them. That sortof stuff. And imagine a few people
have troublesome sasquatches. Everyone's wanted asscares them or something like that. I'm
glad you mentioned that because I've heardpeople say blanket statements that I find to
be ridiculous and stereotypical, like Ibelieve what natives believe. It's like,
well, I mean, you know, you can't do that. That's that's

(25:47):
a weird that's a weird thing tosay. I It's like saying I believe
what construction. You know, workerssay you believe that, Well, how
do you know what they believe?You talk to you know, natives are
as folks. You talk to tenof amity at fifteen per perspectives on it.
There're just folks. And I'm gladthat you mentioned that because there is
no in my opinion and maybe I'mwrong, there is no quote unquote Native

(26:07):
perspective on it because it comes downto individuals. I mean, there's cultural
perspectives. But did you run intoanybody? And I have, which is
why I'm bringing this up. I'verun into some trouble with Native elders who
are actively discouraging me not to beinterested in sasquatches for the good of sasquatches.
Did you run into anything like that? I was a little bit I

(26:30):
was also a little bit shocked abouthow open people were talking about it.
And I'm not just saying this becauseit's you guys and it's this show,
but I think the Finding Bigfoot seriesdid a lot to remove some of the
taboos, if not many of them, and so a lot of people said
that they'd watched the show and everything. So I think in that sense there

(26:51):
was a lot of openness. Ithink where there was a little bit of
caution, and it wasn't just fromelders. It was from some of the
younger people too, but among theyounger people who are slated to become elders.
I would say that the more themore culturally engaged younger people in the
community was that you know, wedon't really kind of go looking for them,

(27:14):
you know what I mean, Wedon't like chase them, we don't
hunt them, we don't make calls, we don't do the wood Knox or
whatever. It was sort of morethey were kind of like saying, you
know, it's really cool that you'rehere to ask us about this, and
it's really you know, and we'rehappy to kind of share and everything and
to tell you our beliefs and ourexperiences. But I think it was it
was sort of more the there wassort of this idea that going in pursuit

(27:37):
of them in terms of actual fieldpursuit kind of thing, and I guess
they were thinking in terms of thewhole kind of stereotypical the Camo thing and
like out on expedition was a littlebit sort of disrespectful, and they said
that for us, and I'm quotingactually directly here somebody he said, for
us, they come to you,they find you, and if it happens

(27:59):
to you then than than good ordepending on the community. Ill there are
different views on that as well,but we generally don't kind of really go
in pursuit of it. And maybethat kind of also goes back to what
we were saying before about how normalit is, and maybe they don't really
have they don't really have a needto in a sense because not just because
it's in their culture and because theylive with it. But I think I

(28:21):
think this now kind of gets intoa bit of the philosophical But I my
sense later after thinking about it,was maybe they don't pursue it in the
same way that some of us onthe outside do because they live in the
general atmosphere of I don't know whatto call it like a super charged mystical

(28:41):
that kind of that kind of magicand that energy that we associate with sasquatch
interpenetrates the ecosystem there. So ina sense, it's it's it's kind of
always there. You kind of alwaysfeel it there, and that that's sort
of the understanding that I took fromfrom it after leaving, was that it's
actually everywhere you look. The wordthat you guys use, the term squatchy,

(29:04):
right, It's a part of theireveryday life there. And so yeah,
I don't know, I guess,I guess. I guess in a
way, in addition to their sacrednessaround the subject, it's just always there
for them, and so they don'treally have a need to sort of pursue
it as much. I suppose.I don't know. That's just the kind
of a guess on my part.Oh yeah, I totally get it.
I totally get it. Stay tunedfor more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and

(29:30):
Bogo will be right back after thesemessages. So you briefly mentioned almost like
a teaser there. There's there's somuch stuff that did even make the book.
Now that the book is out,do you regret are there any thing
specific stories that you regret not puttingin or perhaps you would want to put

(29:52):
in another volume if you ever pinnedone of those. Well, I mean
I put in the stories that Ithat were the most dramatic, I would
say, for sure, because Ihad to make a cut. But I
guess it's I mean, it hasoccurred to me to to do something with
all of the little bits and piecesI think a lot of I think a
lot of the material were we're sortof shorter encounters, more more brief type

(30:15):
of of engagements with the creatures,then then then the longer. So no,
I mean I in a way,in a way, part of the
difficulty in with writing a book isthat part of it is the writing,
but then you spend a lot oftime editing and cutting stuff out, and
so in a sense, no,I mean I made some hard decisions about
material to leave out, but Ithink I left just enough of the more

(30:40):
dramatic stuff in that I thought wouldbe interesting to readers, and so the
rest is the rest, I guesswill just sort of remain in my mind.
I don't, I don't. I'mnot sure whether there there would be
kind of an occasion to write somethingelse about it. Didn't you have your
the rock throwing incident right after youwent to publication like a couple of weeks
later. Yeah, So after Isigned off on the final edit, so

(31:06):
we basically had kind of we've donethe back and forth with the with the
editor, the publisher. So therewas a publisher in New York called Grove
Atlantic. They picked the book up, and so they were fairly sort of
conservative about the whole take. Ithink I think they were content with with
the fact that I that I wasn'treally pushing the bigfoot hypothesis on the reader

(31:30):
kind of thing. And so whenwe'd finished editing, I was here in
British Columbia. I had gone ona on a camping trip with my girlfriend
and a buddy of mine to aplace called Cape Scott Provincial Park, which
is on the very northwest tip ofVancouver Island. It is it's essentially the

(31:55):
draw of of the park, asis camp sites on the beach, basically
on the Pacific. But so whathappened was on the way back to the
car too, and this is avery very very remote, remote backcountry site.
We had stopped for the night ina pretty much an empty, small
campground, away from away from thefrom the coast, from the ocean,

(32:17):
and and so yes, at aboutten pm, my buddy went to bed.
He went he went into his tentwhich is in the trees. And
we were, my girlfriend and Iwere out on the edge of a lake.
We had a little fire going andwe were we were basically about to
sort of come in and sort ofcall it, call it quits for the

(32:37):
night. And suddenly, I meanI didn't see, we didn't see anything,
but we heard the splash in thewater right next to us. We
were like four or five feet awayfrom from from the edge of the water,
and it was like this splash,and we just kind of both sort
of just stood up and we thoughtthat there was an animal swimming or something
like that in the water. Butthen there was another splash and they were

(32:59):
they they were cerplunks, So itwas like plunch plunch, like at several
second intervals, and like like quiteloud, and you could almost sort of
hear stuff was falling from the skybasically, and we weren't, we weren't
below a cliff. We were likethere was nothing, there was nothing that
could have suggested any rocks coming downa hillside or mountain, but and we

(33:22):
just sort of both looked at eachother and there was almost kind of moment.
It's not not telepathy, but weboth kind of knew we had this
moment of unbelievable fear because we bothknew that there there was large objects falling
into the water next to us.It was it was pitch black, and
and that and that whatever was throwingthem, there was something in the bushes

(33:45):
there like the whole time, becausewe had been we'd been sitting out by
the by the lakeside since dinner,all of us, and so we ran
back to the tent and I mean, I was like, I was completely
freaked out, and I'm like,you don't understand, you don't understand this
is happening. This is exactly whathappens everybody there's a sasquatcher, and I,
you know, I kind of revertedto this like like all of the

(34:06):
experiences, all of the books,all of the stories, and we were
we were, we were in andwe were that ecosystem up there is essentially
like the Great Bare Rainforce. It'sit's the exact same thing. And when
we came into the camp, weall kind of realized that like there was
no sounds, there was no birds, there was no squirrels or chipmunks.
It was just completely dead quiet.And everybody sort of remarked that, like

(34:30):
there was something wrong with the place. And I kind of made a bit
of a joke. I'm like,this is a bit like some of the
areas further up north in the GrapeBear. And you know, we kind
of made it. We called itsasquatch, like we kind of made a
joke. But but by the timewe ran back into the tent, I
was like completely I was completely freakedout. And we were debriefing each other

(34:51):
for like half an hour and thenand then at the half about about at
the half hour mark, we heardthis massive commotion back from where we came
from at the lake. It almostsounded like like noises at a construction site,
like it like it sounded like thisbanging, and it didn't. I'd
never heard a wood knock before,but it sounded almost more like boulders being
picked up and thrown against other boulders. It sounded just it sounded like a

(35:15):
construction side kind of thing. Andand and it lasted for a few seconds,
and then I kind of was like, there's a I mean, I
didn't know any other way to explainit. And I'm like, for sure,
like there's something here, Like whatother explanation could there be? So
basically I was up the whole night. She fell asleep. She's like,
ah, if it was going todo something, it had come come,

(35:36):
did something to us a long timeago. And she knocked out, and
I was up till the morning,and then this at first light, we
packed up and we got out ofthere. So I don't know, I
mean, this could all be myown, all my biases kind of at
play. But that happened. Andthe PostScript to this was I told the
publisher about it. So the bookhadn't come out yet, and and so

(35:59):
there was some discuss among the publisherand they at first they were like the
American publisher said, no, we'regoing to we're going to keep it as
is. And then the Canadian publisher, there's another publisher called Graystone, they
bought the rights of the book.They said, why don't you do a
write up for us about what happenedand then we'll see and then when I
do kind of as like a likelike one of the adenda to the book,

(36:22):
but then in the end they decidednot to put it in because I
think they like the idea of itbeing ambiguous at the end. So but
yeah, well, as far asambiguity goes, it doesn't sound like there's
any ambiguity with you as far asthe reality these animals, right, Yeah,
I mean, I'm generally of theperspective that there is something to this

(36:43):
phenomenon. I don't really kind ofwhen people ask me. I mean,
I talk to lots of people whohave no connection to the subject, and
when they ask me, I dotell them, yes, I do.
I do lean towards I am prettymuch a proponent that there is that there
is a reality to this kind ofthing. And so so yeah, I
mean, I guess I guess mysort of personal approach is I don't really

(37:04):
kind of try and convince anybody.And I think that was part of the
reason I wrote the book in theway that I did. I kind of
wanted to do something that was differentalso from the point of view of not
kind of trying to convince anyone.I just I sort of thought, well,
if somebody is able to sort ofsee the the reality in this,
then they will pursue it themselves kindof thing. So I've yeah, I

(37:28):
mean, I mean, I thinkthe incident. I think the incident at
Cape Scott cemented things a little bitmore, even though I even though we
didn't quite see anything, I thinkI think that the noises or the rocks
falling or whatever, we're an indicationenough right now now if I'm if I'm
remembering correctly, which is always abig gamble with me. Well, you're

(37:49):
a listener, you know, mymemory is kind of fuzzy. It seems
to me that you saw some doubtyou saw footprints, but when you went
up to this area, you wentto an area where footrints had been accorded,
right, and and uh they weresmaller footprints, right, that's right.
What are your thoughts on the littlepeople than the stick Indians like the
because I know I never even heardof those things when I first got into

(38:12):
Bigfoot, and I kind of stumbledupon this other cultural phenomenon, I think
in a lot of ways, ofthe little people. What were your thoughts
on that? In all of thecommunities that I visited, they had spoken
about a smaller a smaller type ofsasquatch uh child size basically, and in

(38:34):
Bella Bella. It was particularly prevalentin in Bella Coola. They had an
actual name for it. They calledit the Books, And so I think
some earlier writers had confused the bookswith the larger sasquatch type creature, where
whereas in in in in Uh inthe New Hawk community, they called that
the syninic and so yeah, Idon't know. Same same in we Cano

(39:00):
in rivers Inlet as well up andClem too. So I'm not sure.
I mean, I think I wasjust I was wondering the whole time weather
perhaps maybe they had confused the juvenilesfor a separate being. So I don't
know. I'm I'm a little bitunsure as to whether whether the smaller creature
is an actual juvenile, that it'sconfused for something else and they claim that

(39:22):
it is something in their culture.So I don't know. I kind of
I've just sort of left it atthat. I think, yeah, yeah,
well, if their child's size,I think you're thought about them being
juvenile sasquatches would be spot on.But did you run across stories of like
what do they call them? Maybesick Indians? I know they're called that

(39:43):
in some areas where there's like peoplelike little people wearing like native garb,
like one and a half two feettall or something like that. No,
no, nothing, no, nothinglike that at all. Oh that's good
because those I hope those don't exist. Yeah, yeah, no it was.
I would I would say, Iwould say the the ideas were fairly
we're fairly you know, conservative,and and and of the common variety like

(40:07):
none I mean, dog men,mothman and all of that sort of newer
stuff didn't didn't really exist up inI mean I know it was, it
was, it was a number ofyears ago, but they didn't really seem
to be kind of enamored by anyof that. Same with the UFOs,
Yeah, nor am I I thinkI'm gonna stick with what's really now.

(40:28):
As far as your your trip goes, like the one you based the book
off of, how many eyewitness reportswould you guess you collected? Just put
a number on it, and it'sclose, doesn't matter to me. I
would say probably three or four dozenor so. Yeah, it's a bit
strange, Like I figured, maybeperhaps rightly that because it's such a remote

(40:52):
area, it's so pristine. Imean, I can't even begin to explain
how really, how how how wildthe place is. I mean, it
probably is is it's it's equivalent toparts of Alaska and everything. I mean,
the automatic assumption was because of thehistory and because of how wild it
is, that there would be somuch. But then at the same time,

(41:15):
it wasn't until later after I leftthat because the area is so sparsely
populated and because people travel in boats, there isn't really a lot of road
works up there. I mean,there is, there is a main road
coming from the interior into Belluicula,but everyone else is kind of and there
are roads in the community, withinthe communities themselves, but everybody uses boats,

(41:37):
and so the boats are loud,they have engines, and and I
think that a lot of the sidingssort of tend to tend to kind of
happen when they're on land and inoutside of the community, which isn't often
that much. So I think Ithink in some kind of paradoxical way,
like there may have been less sidingsand reports then you would get in a

(42:01):
place like Ohio, or you hearabout Massachusetts or Connecticut or any of these
places where people are more tightly packedin with them. So and I've heard
the stories. Some of the storieswere fifty years old, some had happened
just the previous summer, and soyeah, there were there were, There
were quite a often just really kindof just things that were in passing.

(42:24):
Did you find that women, likethe Native women were a lot more afraid
of them? I would I wouldsay there was an equal fear, because
again we've all heard this before aboutthe stories, the scare stories as growing
up as kids. They were Ithink they were all instilled with with a
with a with a caution or afear of the animals. So I would

(42:45):
say they were all I would say, male and female, they were quite
fearful. I would say I knowof a few individuals and some of the
communities who are like pretty hardcore outdoorspeople and hunters, and I think there
were incidents involving some of these peoplewhere they had they knew that there was
one in the area and they justthey took off. So I think I

(43:06):
think there is a I think everybody'sgenerally equally afraid. Stay tuned for more
Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobowill be right back after these messages.
Did you talk to even anyone thathad any terrifying encounters with them, because
it sounds like it was all kindof benign stuff for the most besides rocks

(43:30):
being thrown. Yeah, I know, so yeah so, and I've I've
got some of those stories in thebook. And I mean there were there
were a lot of there were alot of cabin attack type of sort of
encounters and stories, and so I'vegot some of those in the book where
they were just like bang on thecabins at night and everything. And because
the different nations have got these thesethese back country cabins on their territory that

(43:54):
they can use when they're out,and they also they also take the kids
there on trips and they do campingtrips for the weekend. And so one
of the one of the big storiesinvolved a woman in Ballabela who took you
know, Heltzic youth at risk Helticyouth on these on these camping trips basically

(44:15):
to kind of help to you know, part of the idea is you know,
reforming kind of people who are whoare involved in you know, in
in who are doing things, youngpeople who are who are kind of maybe
involved in in in crime or whateveris to is to take them out into
nature and to teach them about theirculture and everything. So there was one
story where several preteen girls went witha couple of adults to one of the

(44:39):
cabins to look a really really activeinlet. Look at this this this crazy
uh fjord like inlet about an hour'sboat ride from Ballabella. And as soon
as they arrived they saw one.They saw a sasquatch standing at the edge

(44:59):
of the ashore. And it wasthey described it as and it was like
a group report. Basically they'd allseen it like a kind of a like
like like you hear about these likereally muscular bigfoots that everybody keeps talking about,
the really the the cut ones,the musk. This was kind of
like a lanky Chewbacca type one.But and they they basically ran into the

(45:21):
cabin and the creature eventually went away, but then came back later that night
and basically kind of almost taunted themor terrified them the whole night by you
know, crawling under the cabin whichwas on stilts, and scratching and knocking,
and the smell of the creature kindof wafted it up through the through
the seed or floorboards into the cabin, and this this whole drama ensued basically,

(45:45):
and so and that was the nextmorning that you know, one of
one of one of the adults eventuallywent outside and shot off. He fired
his gun and the creature went away, and then they left at first light
basically. But you do get ahandful of these really kind of dramatic,
lengthy kind of encounter stories, andthey do tend to involve those those backcountry

(46:08):
cabins in the territories. Basically,they love to like psychologically torture people.
They're masters at intimidation, that's forsure. That's that's what it sounded like.
And and and there was another therewas another story that I put in
the appendix of the book about abouta young guy nineteen years old who again

(46:30):
he was he was he was partof that restorative justice program with the Heltzik.
He had I guess he had donesomething wrong, and part of the
I guess his his penalty was tospend time in isolation at one of the
cabins, right so where they were, they would, you know, in
a humane kind of way, theywould go check on him and bring him
food and stuff and everything. ButI think what ended up happening was whatever

(46:53):
whatever creature was in the area hadbecome acclimatized to his pri and just started
to bother him and bother him,so that when the adult person came back
to check on him, he washe he was just like, getting me
the hell out of here, Getme out of here. There's something here,
there's something here. And then whenthe when, the when the woman
didn't believe him, thinking that hewanted to kind of just an excuse to

(47:15):
come back, he went look andhe pointed up at the at the cabin
and at the like ten or twelvefoot mark off the ground. There was
a huge handprint on the on theside on the side of the wall kind
of thing. So, yeah,there's there is there's a lot of drama.
There's a lot of drama with someof the reports. Some of them
are really fleeting, like in youknow, the cross the road type thing,

(47:35):
but then you get these you getthese longer ones that that come out
of the woodwork, and and essentiallythat's what happened. When I went on
my first trip there to do themagazine story. One of those big drama
stories had just unfolded at the youthat a at one of the summer youth
camps, and the whole community wasbuzzing. And I think that's that was

(47:57):
the story that had pulled me inand had made me realize like, oh,
I really have to come back,and I have to come back and
and write about this and and investigatemore for myself. So this youth camp
story, how how long before youarrive did it occur? It had happened
I think several about a month orfour weeks or something, so it had

(48:21):
just taken place, and and youknow, I was I just made you
know, I was there to writea travel piece. But then I just
figured I would just ask, like, hey, like anything happening from from
the Sasquatch point of view? LikeI know this is Bellabella. Like in
my mind, I'm like I'm rememberingJohn Green's books, and they all just
sort of stopped and looked at eachother and were like told me, like,

(48:43):
yeah, like just something just happened. And then there's a there's a
really remote the whole area is remote, shouldn't even say, but there's like
there's an extra remote river system calledthe Quaya River, which is on the
mainland coast. Bellabella's on an Island. So just to the south east of
Bellabela is this very traditional sacred areacalled the Quay River Valley, hasn't been

(49:06):
law hasn't been commercially logged, andmaybe is the most intact river system maybe
in potentially among them in BC.And so they take their kids there every
summer to do to do ecology andcultural stuff, and there's been activity there.
At the time of my twenty twelveand twenty thirteen visit, there had

(49:30):
been a lot of activity there forsuccessive summers and including like including appearances of
the animals, both in the youthcamp which is down by the river and
even in the Councilor's sort of someof the other buildings further up kind of
on the hill kind of thing.So that's one of the stories that kind

(49:52):
of brought me out there, washearing about that and going wow, and
then hearing the same thing in allthe other community. Are you still in
touch with any of the people thatyou've stayed with or visited with, or
any of the witnesses to this dayand has the activity continued. Yeah,
So that's a very interesting question.So the short answer is yes, in

(50:16):
that I've been going back there almostevery year, because when I started writing
the book, I wanted to makesure that I not only just went in
twenty twelve for two weeks in twentythirteen for the summer, I wanted to
really immerse myself in the community andunder just I really wanted to understand and
soak up the place. It's kindof a bit like like actors getting into

(50:37):
their role a little bit. SoI basically have gone back every year and
have become friends with a lot ofnot just the eye some of the eyewitnesses,
but also other people in the communitywho I became friends with. And
I was even there last. Iwent back to Bella Bella last year in
September twenty twenty three, and Idid a ca camping trip with a couple

(51:00):
of friends from the community there toa very very very very remote place that
very few people even in Bellabella getto go to. And and yes,
so when I was there last September, there was a footprint report that went
viral on the Bella Bella Facebook socialmedia kind of network or whatever. And

(51:24):
and even on previous trips when Iwent up there, I'd heard stories from
other people, including non and includinga non Indigenous I'd heard about a non
indigenous couple who had seen one runningfrom the water on the beach into into
the forest just south of just southof Bellabella. Basically, so, I

(51:44):
mean it does continue. What Iwhat what they do tell me though there
is that it sort of comes inwaves. I don't know what to make
of that. There. They saidthat there are some some periods where it's
really quiet, and then all ofa sudden it gets busy again, and
so my twenty twelve trip happened ona busy period, which is why I
got all of the activity in allof the communities. Perhaps there was a

(52:07):
virality to the stories that maybe itkind of maybe it caused some people to
conclude that they'd seen a sasquatch orheard one in the other communities, when
in fact they hadn't. There's thewhole psychology piece as well, obviously.
But yes, it still goes onup there, and I imagine if I
was to go back and spend anytime again, you'd hear about something for

(52:29):
sure. Now, having taken afew dozen reports, I think it's safe
to say, as you mentioned,do you see any trends or patterns in
them? And things like I don'tknow, just shoot from the hip her
time of day habitat, which ofcourse is skewed by the human presence of
course, you know, because they'reonly seeing where humans are. I know,

(52:51):
from listening to your podcast, you'rereally you're I mean rightly, so
you're very interested now and kind ofdeducing from the stories, and I mean,
they tended to be a lot oflittle things. I would say,
I'm little for me, but justthings like the creatures are the animals like
squatting and kind of like hugging atree to kind of remain concealed whatever.

(53:14):
There were a lot of that sortof thing. There were a lot of
stories about them being agitated, pacingback and forth and back and forth and
back and forth and back and forthlike that kind of stuff, and just
sort of smaller behavioral things, anda lot of them. The cabin encounters
tended to be very, like Isaid earlier, kind of almost taunting,

(53:35):
psychological like. In one case,the guy described it as almost like the
thing taking its hand and kind ofjust with its fingernails brushing along the side
of the wood on the outside,kind of almost like just dragging its nails
like things, little things like thatand yeah, I mean those were the
sorts of things that I that Ikind of heard time and again, well,

(53:57):
those are the cool things that thesubtle behaviors and and they're they're to
me at least, because you know, running across the road isn't that exciting
to me after we got the reports. Honestly, it's the stuff like,
oh, how can the tree squattingdown? That's cool stuff, that's rat
they do that horror It's like horrormovie. They really needed things that you
see in horror movies, like draggedone fingernails on the side of a tent
or a wall, you know,tapping, you know, like little things

(54:22):
that seemed somewhat innocuous, but they'resuper creepy when they when they're happening in
the dark out the woods. Yeah, yeah, there there were. There
were a lot of there were.There were quite a number of stories around
the wintertime around clam digging and beingout there at the middle of the night
for low tide, and about aboutabout the animals being really protective and really

(54:47):
defensive about their clam beaches and chasingpeople out and be like the more aggressive
stories of aggressive sasquatches revolved around clambeaches and about protecting their resources. That
seemed to be a very recur Thatwas a recurring story among a lot of
the people there. Did you hearany bear sasquatch interaction stories? No,

(55:10):
nothing like that. I mean,somebody had mentioned that because it's grizzly,
hardcore grizzly territory, the valleys orthe water sheds where there tended to be
a lot of grizzly, there tendedto be not a lot of sasquatch and
vice versa. But obviously I can'tI mean, I can't make sense.
I couldn't confirm. But that's what. That's what more than a few people

(55:31):
told me, and I heard thata lot in Bella Coola, that there's
a mutual avoidance between those two species. Mm hmm, Well, I don't
don't suppose you would know about theirthoughts on a similar matter, the presence
of black bears and sasquatches. No, that yeah, that that didn't really
that didn't come up as as anykind of pattern. Yeah, I guess

(55:52):
if there's grizzlies in the neighborhood,that probably eclipses the presence of black bears
in a lot of ways. Youknow, did you did you ask them
about any of those old John Greenstories, like what was it Charlie,
Charlie Mack or Clayton Mac. Yeah. So I met Clayton Mac's son on
the twenty twelve trip, the magazinetrip again again part of that whole serendipitous

(56:13):
thing. I was out kind ofexploring with one of the locals in the
community and he was in his truck. We just went up to him and
then somebody, the guy that Iwas with, told me, oh,
that's Clayton's son. So yeah,I knew. I've met a lot of
people who who were related to Claytonbecause there's so much sort of interrelated family
sort of links between those communities,and and heard a lot of stories about

(56:37):
about Clayton and everything from people whoI mean, I even spent time with
his Clayton has a nephew who goesby the name of Little Obie in Bella
Coola, and he pulled out hiscast collection for me and showed me all
the casts that he had casted himselfin Bella Coola. And when you're there,
it's like you you tap into it'slike you hap the vein, It's

(57:00):
like it's it's it's all there,and it's all there available for you.
So and in Clem Too, Idid actually meet I guess he was an
elder. He was. He'd metJohn Green and Bob Titmas believe it or
not, when when when Green andTitmus used to travel the North Coast together,
he remembered Titmas and told me abouthim. This was again on the

(57:21):
twenty twelve trip. So yeah,a lot of a lot of that history
is still is still there circulating inthe community. Well, you know,
we can talk to you for hoursand hours and hours, but I would
like to squeeze another hour out ofyou if you wouldn't mind ad over our
members section, hear more about yourtrips and your your insights and and of
course Matt Prude is chomping at thebid. He has a whole laundry list

(57:42):
of questions to ask you. Soif you wouldn't mind sticking around for our
member section, we really really appreciateit. Sounds good and of course for
people listening, if you're curious aboutthe member section, it's a five dollars
a month thing. It's a Patreondeal. There will be a link in
the show notes and basically, whatyou get you get an extra hour of
Cliff and Bobo and Matt prove itit always joins us for the conversation as
well. We do Q and a's, we do special member events sort of

(58:05):
things, you know, like youguys, there's a lot of cool things
going on. But also also besidesjust what you get on the extra hour
a week that you get to hearus, you also get this episode,
the regular episode you are listening toat this very moment, completely ad free.
Now that's cool. Five bucks amonth seems worth it to me.
Why don't you join us by clickingthat link below and become a member of

(58:27):
Bigfoot and Beyond and be part ofour Beyond Bigfoot and Beyond community. Yeah,
I was gonna have a million questionsfor you to you, John,
but I haven't actually read your Bookkeet, I'm embarrassed to say, because I've
heard nothing but outstanding reviews of itand I got to read it now excellent.
I'd be very happy to hear yourtake on it. Yeah, of
course you can get it a prettypretty much everywhere. But also I want

(58:49):
to point out you can get atthe NABC store as well, So we'll
put that link in the show notesas well. Thanks so much, guys
for having me on. It wasreal pleasure. Thanks for coming on,
and of course thank you also,oddly enough, for being a listener of
the podcast. I mean, Isay it all the time in the podcast,
I legitimately forget there's anybody listening.I'm just hanging out with you know,
Bobo and Matt and whoever our guestsis. So okay, folks,

(59:09):
that was John Zada. Thanks somuch for joining us, John, and
we're going to join them now inthe Patreon sess. So, thank you
all for listening, and y'all keepit squatchy. Thanks for listening to this
week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.If you liked what you heard, please

(59:30):
rate and review us on iTunes,subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get
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You can find us on Twitter atBigfoot and Beyond that's an N in
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