Ep. 272 - Timely Takes on Trending Topics!

Cliff Barackman and James "Bobo" Fay weigh in on a few news items that are relevant to the sasquatch in this new episode! Topics include:

Man "Speaks" With Bigfoot: https://www.ladbible.com/community/weird/man-spoke-bigfoot-conversation-doom-026350-20240713

Orangutan Treats Wounds: https://www.theguardian.com/science/article/2024/may/02/orangutan-seen-treating-wound-with-medicinal-herb-in-first-for-wild-animals-max-planck-institute-sumatra

Orangutan Infant Nest-Building: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/sumatran-orangutan-engineering-infants

Bigfoot Adventure Cruise: https://www.travelportland.com/event/46014007908278/

Sign up for our weekly bonus podcast "Beyond Bigfoot & Beyond" and ad-free episodes here: https://www.patreon.com/bigfootandbeyondpodcast

Get official "Bigfoot & Beyond with Cliff & Bobo" merchandise here: https://sasquatchprints.com/bigfoot-and-beyond-merch/

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Big Food and Beyond with Cliff andBobo. These guys are your fav It's
so like, say subscribe and readit. I'm stuck and me wish today
and listening, Oh watchy lim alwayskeep its watching. And now you're hosts

(00:28):
Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay.Hello Cliff, Hello Bobo. How you
doing. Man's going to do you? A little frustrating today, but nothing
terrible, I guess, you know, small small problems. Uh, you
know, it took too long atthe bank, so I'm running late.
Sorry about that. And of courseI come back to my office right and
my poor old dog, she sheapparently took it upon herself to relieve herself

(00:51):
on some financial papers in my office. Are you kidding me? No,
No, It's just that kind ofday. Man. Sometimes things happen,
you know. Then, and mydog's old, and you know, I
you know, so she's getting prettyold at this point, and she's really
aged a lot in the last likefive months, it seems, honestly.
But you know, I mean,I can't blame her. I feel the
same way about those financial papers.Nice, she didn't need them, Yeah,

(01:17):
just like one one small hurdle afteranother just to make it here to
talk to you, and I finallyhere, it's finally going, and it's
worth it. It's worth it.So it's great to be talking to you,
Bigfoot to beyond here today. Anduh, Cliff having to being a
former fifth grade teacher, do youexpect me to believe your dog Pete on
your homework? It wasn't p ohshe dubbed on it. Oh yeah,

(01:38):
she squirted all over the things.Man, it was terrible. She's old,
she's not feeling. Kind of amix of one en, she kind
of mixed constitution. Yeah yeah,I know. Yeah, so welcome listeners.
It wasn't a number one, itwasn't a number two. It is
a one and a half. Youknow, poor soach, I know,
I know. Did you see her? She's looking old? Man had her

(02:00):
for eleven, like ten or elevenyears now ten years. She was an
adult when I got her. Yeah, yeah, so anyway, yeah,
yeah, my poor dog. Andyou know what, we left her alone
for a couple of days because Melissaand I went to Vegas to go see
Dead and Company at the Sphere,which was absolutely ridiculous. It was absolutely
phenomenal, spectacular. You know,I've seen a lot of cool things in

(02:21):
my life. You know, Isaw the solar eclipse back in what seventeen
with you, Bobo. I've seenyou know, I've been all over the
world. I've seen some amazing things, just ridiculously amazing things in my life.
I'm truly blessed. And seeing Deadand Company at the Sphere was easily
one of the coolest things I've everseen in my entire life. I didn't
know how awesome that spirit thing wasuntil I just saw some stuff about the

(02:43):
were Dead playing there like two daysago, and I looked at it and
I was like, wait, becauseI've seen things on the sphere, but
I thought it was just like computergenerated, Like they show like this sphere
of it self and it's a buildingLas Vegas for people that I know,
it's around building the Boss Vegas,Like all the walls are a screen in
the roof and everything like it's well, it's a round, so there's no
walls and roof, it's all justthe same surface, right, Yeah,

(03:06):
Like you're sitting inside of a balland at one side of the ball is
the stage where the band's playing,and everywhere else like on the inside surface
of this sphere, hence the nameis an LED screen. You know.
It was just absolutely fantastic, justit was, and it's super expensive.
But this was a, you know, an anniversary gift for Melissa and I.

(03:28):
Our anniversary was a few weeks agoand we couldn't go then because our
dog was sick then as well.So so she got better. We decided
to go this past weekend. Andit was an expensive ticket. You know,
it's like, I guess concerts arejust expensive now. I had no
idea, you know, because Idon't go to a lot of concerts anymore.
But it was way worth it.It was worth every single penny.

(03:49):
Awesome I heard. It was justmind blowing, like you can't you can't
you just there's no words as asyou're gonna see it. Yeah, that's
just it, you know. AndMelissa took some videos and stuff. I
was trying to remain in the momentand not do videos and stuff. And
you know, I'm not posting anythingon social media. I don't like social
media. But yes, but man, it's just like the videos or words
themselves just completely lack. They justfall short of the mark. There's no

(04:12):
way to describe it. I mean, a dead show anyway. I mean,
I've never seen Dead Company until this. I've seen The Grateful Dead a
bunch of times, but I hadn'tbeen to any of the Dead offshoot bands,
any of their concerts. I haven'tseen these people since Jerry died in
like ninety five. But man,it's an Every Grateful Dead concert is an
experience and to itself. But thiswas just ridiculous anyway. So yeah,

(04:35):
this is going to be a topicalepisode a Bigfoot and Beyond, And of
course we got over the greeting stuffbecause that's the most topical thing right now
is I'm still coming down from agreat weekend seeing the Dead and struggling through
the Vegas part of it all.But I'm back home now. Everything's cool,
the weather's cooled down. You know, it's a lovely eighty something degrees
here, which I totally dig asopposed to one hundred and eight or one

(04:57):
hundred and seven at night. Screwthat, man. Look forward to get
into the woods this week a littlebit. I have some plans to go
tomorrow and maybe even the next day. Got a gig next weekend and a
gig in Southeast Ohio in two moreweeks, So back to the big foot
life. You know, that's whatI do apparently. Yeah, I'm going
up to meet the guys that youwere just with, Alex and Petacov from
small Town Marshers. I'm going outto meet him and like Kip and Lighterman,

(05:20):
Kip Moral from the Glove Creek Projectand Rowdy. I'm gonna go out
there with them guys for a coupleof days. And yeah, Alex is
going to be their Pedacov And Iguess you just shot with your thing up
there the Eight Canyon. Yeah.Yeah, he went up to Eight Canyon
with Mark, Marcel and Eli andI think Shane Corson is there and Cindy's

(05:42):
was out there. Yeah. Soa bunch of people just got back from
that trip. I hooked them allup with Ape Canyon commemorative coins because you
know, this is one hundredth anniversaryof the Eight Canyon events, and we
made cool coins at the museum.Pick those up at an online shop if
you want. But I sent freecoins with everybody who went up there so
they can take some pictures at themine and the cabin site and all that

(06:02):
sort of stuff with the coins.And so I got a bunch of really
cool pictures back from them. Theyjust I talked to Alex a little bit
yesterday. I was texting with him, and then Eli came by the shop
and kind of filled me in oneverything that was going on up in the
expedition there. It sounds like alot of fun. And for a lot
of those people it was their firsttime at the cabin or and you know,
the mine obviously hadn't been exploited veryoften. But those all those young

(06:26):
whipper snappers in their twenties were saying, my god, that's treacherous, is
terrible. I'll probably never go backthere. And I'd say, okay,
it made me feel a little betterafter failing to get to the cabin site
last year or voluntarily turning around.So this is a sketchy spot, man,
This a sketchy spot. But Idid get a couple of pictures of
the coins at the mine itself,which I think is pretty cool. I'll

(06:47):
send those to PRU and you canboth. Was on our on our membership
page for our members. So thatwas neat. That was really neat.
So those guys are back, safeand sound. They were up there on
the one hundredth anniversary of the eventso cool, really cool. Well,
one thing is I think I'm gonnado expeditions, like public expeditions like people
sign up for. I'm looking.I think I'm going to try to book

(07:09):
two maybe three for the throughout therest of the year. But I'm still
I'm still got a shout out toa book because there's so many fires kicking
off and it's like, you know, in the next couple of months,
like how much like what's going tobe on fire? What's been burned out?
It's it's hard to like, youknow, like where are you gonna
go this for su're going to havea fire? Besides the coast? Well,

(07:30):
you know, there's there's a bigforest. I bet if you you
know, when you go through thepermitting process and you talk to six Rivers
National Forests, you can always askthem like, hey, if fires do
happen, what's my plan? BCan I can I go over to this
location? You know, because there'splenty of spots out there. Well,
it's going to do it on privateproperty? Was it that giant property where
you're going to put the trailer?Eventually? You know what that fell through?

(07:53):
The guy could They said they hadall the paperwork and then he couldn't
find the one piece of paper,that one thing you needed to prove that
was the case. All right,Well, it sounds like your trailer's gonna
end up in the river if you'renot careful. No, it's I'm getting
it there. You got a placeto put it, Okay. Well,
anyway, you're probably wondering why wegathered you all here today, just because

(08:13):
we are doing a topical episode herein Bigfoot and Beyond where we kind of
go through various news items that eithercaught our eye or we think are pertinent
to the Bigfoot field, or justof interest in general, you know,
in our little corner of the world, this this Bigfoot corner of the world
that we seem to occupy. Sowe have a number of articles here.
We'll be kind of addressing some ofthose and giving our thoughts and kind of

(08:35):
just talking about those in general.And you know what, we've been hearing
a lot of good feedback for thesekinds of episodes. We call them Clobo
episodes, where you know, Cliffand Bobo were together, and Clobo,
of course is our power couple name, you know, like a bradje Alina
sort of thing. So we geta lot of positive feedback about the Clobo
episodes, whether it's the Q andA's that we do on a monthly basis
or these topical episodes that we doyou know pretty often. We're not quite

(08:58):
strict doing it once a month likewe do the Q and A's, but
we do these about once every monthor two. And thank you very much
for the feedback. We really doappreciate it. And we'll also be doing
a member episode after this where I'mgoing to talk about the Blue Mountain expedition
that we did about two weeks ago. Great crazy things happen there. Looking
forward to that, and we're alsobe taking some questions for our members that

(09:20):
we do every single episode. Ifyou would like to be a member of
Bigfoot and Beyond, you do getsome cool stuff for it. You get
an extra hour a week of originalcontent. Bobo and I and Matt Prut
get together and we talk for anotherwhole hour after we record these regular episodes,
and those are just for our members, and you also get these episodes
right now ad free, like youknow how they insert these ads. A

(09:43):
computer inserts these ads based on whereyou live and what you're listening to,
and there's no inserted ads whatsoever inthe special membership episode. So if you
do become a member of Bigfoot andBeyond, you can do that for five
bucks a month. The link isgoing to be in the show notes,
and you get these these episodes adfree, and also you get an extra
content. You get an extra hourof content every single week. If that

(10:05):
sounds good to you, be amember, be one of us, Goba
gaba. Hey. Yeah, Soanyway, let's jump into the articles here,
Bobo, do you want to startus off or should I just go
ahead and choose one? Pick one? We got some good ones, Yeah,
got some good ones here. Nowthis one, I remember I sent
this in a couple of days ago. This hit the news because you know,

(10:26):
I have bigfoot set up on myGoogle news feed or whatever, and
so when something bigfooty comes up,I generally click it or whatever and see
what's going on, usually as somesort of sighting, like that's news or
something. Sightings are not rare.They happen pretty frequently. I don't know
why that makes the news, exceptfor I guess out there for regular civilian
folk, they don't realize that bigfootreports happen more or less all the time
somewhere. I mean, just thisweek, I've seen photographs of two prints,

(10:52):
two sets of tracks, in twodifferent states, two different parts of
the country. I've heard stories ofanother sighting a tree push down for over
here in mountain of national forests.There's always stuff going on. You just
have to be in the right placethe right time, or have your antenna
up. But yeah, this particularnews item comes from the Internet, unfortunately,

(11:13):
so but I grabbed it because ofthe ridiculous stuff that it reports.
And this one, the title ofit is man claims to have spoken to
Bigfoot and says the conversation filled himwith doom. Huh. Okay, But
first, my first criticism right awayis this such garbage clickbait sort of titles.

(11:33):
You know, So anyway, somedude in basically, what the deal
is that some dude in I thinkit was Missouri. I think it was
Missouri claims to have spoken to abigfoot. Okay. And of course we
hear these things not all the time, because despite what the paranormal side of
the fence thinks, the paranormal sideof the fence, the paranormal reports are

(11:54):
outliers. They are not common.And that's in by the number of reports
we've got at the NABC. Ithink since we've opened we probably have received
eight hundred or more sided reports justin the last few years. And the
paranormal stuff I can count on onehand, and I don't even know if
I could fill up on my fingers, but I can count on one hand.

(12:15):
So it's kind of like one ofthese situations where a very loud but
yet very small population of people thinksomething is true and they yell at a
lot. So the paranormal stuff isn'tquite as commons as I think the WU
folks like to think. I'll bemore impressed when it's not like some hippy
temming they say, live in peace, and you know, it's like it

(12:35):
seems that they always say what peopleare thinking. It was like when that
other well noted Bigfoot aficionado was sayingthat bigfn to hold the vote Trump.
You know, it's like, Idon't think they're making like political picks or
whatever. They communicating these things thatthey seem to have express what these people
are thinking. My coincidence, Yeah, yeah, exactly, what a coincidence

(12:58):
that that is, right, thatthe Bigfoot or aliens or angels or whatever,
you're talking to inside your brain hasthe same political views of you as
you or the same you know,emotional situation, or the same philosophical perspective
as you do. Isn't that somethingI wonder? I wonder why that could
be. Well, anyway, thisguy, this guy called called this this

(13:20):
radio station k HMO. This guyfrom Missouri calls the station and said that
he had an encounter with bigfoot rightoutside of his house. And what he
said is that, like this guysays, we don't have to be afraid
of each other and that we couldjust live in peace. And I told
him I didn't want to hurt him, and I didn't want him to hurt
me. Fair enough, right thencheck this out. Then the guy said,
he hit me with the infra soundand it hit me hard. It

(13:45):
made me physically shudder. I don'tknow if there's a telepathic component to it
or not, but what I feltis you could feel it go through your
body. You didn't hear nothing.It was like anger, fear, hatred,
and doom all rolled into one directlyat you. Well, the thing
that bothers me about this is that, how does I mean, do most

(14:07):
civilians, for lack of a betterterm, are they even aware of infrasound?
Like you go up to somebody inthe store and say, hey,
hey, bay person buying you knowa hershey bar at the store, what's
infrasound? Do you think they're gonnabe able to describe it to you?
And do you think that they haveany idea that sasquatches may or may not
use that. Whoever this Missouri dudeis, like, he clearly is tangent

(14:28):
to the Bigfoot community in some sortof way, because how would he know
that? You know, So thisisn't a normal sighting. This is somebody
who is aware of the Bigfoot lorein some sort of way, which I
think Matt Prowitz said this before.Maybe he wants to weigh in on this,
which, in my opinion, Ithink gives a lot of way to
those earlier sighting reports the stuff beforeall these hypotheticals were put out there because

(14:52):
we don't know. I mean,I think sasquatches use in for sound,
but we don't know that. There'sno way two know that at this point
without recording show it. Right beforethe mythology of Bigfoot really got rolling and
all these powers and traits were ascribedto the species. Those sightings do,

(15:13):
in fact, in my opinion,have more weight nowadays because you know,
this is like some you know,mainstream internet clickbait website and they're talking about
infrasound with Bigfoot and I don't knowabout telepathy, but this happened, and
you know, doesn't that. Imean, what do you think? But
what does that give more weight tothese older reports that were pre mythology?

(15:33):
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I would agree, Yeah, I
think so. Mad do you wantto weigh in on this? I know
you're back there learning, But theearliest reports have them having those kind of
abilities like the Native Americans, likealmost almost all their tribes that they have
for sure telepathy and possibly like uh, can travel as light, that sort

(15:56):
of stuff. Almost all. That'sa pretty strong statement. I would be
disagree with. You don't think thatmost obviously, Yeah, they all have
like some component of that, mostof most have a component of that tolepathy,
for sure. I'm not I'm notconvinced of that because I think that
what we get on the being anoutsider of those particular cultures is like a

(16:17):
conglomeration of various things. Stay tunedfor more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and
Bobo will be right back after thesemessages. From my experience speaking to individual
Native people, there's a wide varietyof perspectives on these things. Some like

(16:40):
lots of Native people I've spoken to, Yeah, it's an animal, like
all the other stuff. We haveour stories about them, blah blah blah,
and the other people, you know, just just like in every other
community. I think other things aboutsasquaches. Oh, they're a protector of
the woods, or they are badnews. They're a bad omen, they're
a good omen. There, they'rethis yor that they're it's all over the
place. I very rarely hear aboutthat sort of stuff. But then again,
I am an outsider. Maybe I'mjust not privity of the information.

(17:03):
Yeah, there's different secres, butI'm saying that the most common one amongst
them that I've heard for sure themajority of the people I've talked from those
tribes, is telepathy, which Idon't think is that out that far out
there. I know we've talked aboutthis in other episodes that I've appeared on,
but if you look at belief systemsand attributes associated with certain animals around

(17:30):
the world, you'll find those exactsame attributes assigned to them, the same
supernatural or metaphysical powers or abilities.And I think the most likely explanation for
that is that we have a hardwiredcognitive, psychological, and physiological response to
encountering animals of this sort, andit results in the involuntary freezing response for

(17:52):
one, which is called tonic immobility. So phenomenologically, yes, it is
as if you know, once youmeet the gaze of an animal like that,
you are frozen in your tracks,and something like that gets encoded into
these narratives about such animals, butthe onus is always placed on the animal
itself that you know, a tigerhas the ability to paralyze you, or

(18:14):
gorilla has this ability, or abear has this ability, and on and
on and on as you go aroundthe world looking at belief systems associated with
other animals. So I think veryoften what people are describing is the normative
response that's involuntary that they're falling victimto because they're powerless against it. But
they're assuming that it's the animal thatsomehow does this to them without touching them

(18:37):
from a distance. And so inthe past it might have been that they
had magical or mystical powers. Inthe more recent times it was it might
have been that they had psychokinesis ortelepathic or telekinetic powers. And then when
people get introduced to the idea ofinfrasound, they couch it under that particular
umbrella that, oh, it paralyzedme by generating infrasound. But I think

(19:00):
the most likely thing is that whilenot all these animals share physiology morphology,
they're not genetically related. So what'sthe common denominator. It's the human observer
and the human response. And peopleare doing their best to describe in whatever
language they have, through whatever interpretivelens they're equipped with, to describe that
experience, and so to them,they blame the animal for it, rather

(19:23):
than realizing that it's just a normativeresponse. NERD makes sense to me.
You're out numbered, bubs, twonerds and one one. No, I
get what you're saying. I mean, that's that's all. I'm not saying.
What I'm not saying what you saidis untrue. I'm just saying that,
and I understand. I totally getthat, like what I attribute to

(19:44):
be infra sound stuff that hit likethat coral. I mean, I think
that was in forsound. That totallycould have been like the infrasound can make
you hear voices in your head,and so can like just total unmitigated horror
and fear. I guess you know, I definitely was experienced all that at
one time. Well, yeah,you know, I bring up this account

(20:07):
that we received in the museum whenthese conversations come up. Now. I
don't think it was last summer.I think it was the summer before.
A gentleman comes into the museum.He was solo hiking, and I think
Glacier National Park or maybe the Tetonsin that area, you know, And
he comes around a corner, blindcorner and boom, there it is ten
feet ahead of him there is agrizzly bear, right, And I guess
that's a serious situation when you're outsolo hiking, right, spooking a bear

(20:30):
like that coming around the corner.And of course, he and the bear
stare at each other for a minute, and then a voice in his head
said you need to get out ofhere now. And of course, and
are we left to think that thebear is telepathic and it put that English
sentence in the guy's head or isthat just the back of his own head
screaming at him you need to getout of here. Now. I think

(20:52):
that there's also a lot of thatgoing on with these big foot telepathic you
know encounters, and also, youknow, I also bring this story up,
but I think I've said it beforeon the on the podcast here when
we were in Australia talking to theAboriginal people, the Native people of Australia,
and I asked them, so,some people in North America report that,

(21:12):
you know, bigfoots can put messagesin your head at telepathic powers and
like that you know what you're thinking, they know what you're thinking, and
you know what they're thinking and allthis other stuff. And I asked them
that the native people down there andsay, hey, does that happen here
with the yowis and I and theguy looked at me it kind of puzzled,
and he said, well, Imean your dog can do that.

(21:32):
And I thought, for a minute, yeah, I guess I do know
when so she's hungry and what she'syou know, when she needs to go
out, and all these other things. So I but still that's not telepathy.
That's just you know, knowing thedog or whatever, But so anyway
that I chose this particular I guessarticle mostly for an example of bad media,
a bad press about the bigfoot.You know, about the sasquatch phenomenon,

(21:56):
and how things like this put allresearchers kind of a bad light in
a way advocating for the paranormal,but all researchers the subject in general in
a bad light and does damage tothe subject by driving the scientists away that
we want to be involved in thesubject. Now, I think it's very
clear that I don't think sasquatches areparanormal in any way whatsoever. But if

(22:18):
they are paranormal in some way inany way, when we prove they're real,
they will not be able to hidethat from us. It's just one
of the things we'll discover about themas we go along. We should not
be leading with this paranormal stuff,and we should do our best to ignore
or refute articles like this when theypop up, because this is not what

(22:42):
we want. This is not thekind of press that our subject needs out
there, because we want scientists tobe involved at least I do. I
think anybody who wants to learn moreabout the subject or kind of you know,
get to the end of this road, the discovery process, or you
know, whatever you're up to inthe Bigfoot land, unless you're just doing

(23:02):
it to I don't know, haveyour own experience and share that with other
people who want experiences, and that'sit. But the rest of us want
other people involved so we can learnmore about these animals and what they do
and all that kind of stuff.We want scientists involved, and this kind
of nonsense out in the press doesdamage to that cause. So keep that
in mind. Whenever any of you, any of us, are talking,

(23:26):
like any of our listeners are talkingabout sasquatch, sound sane, you know,
sound normal, speak like sasquatches areperfectly normal animals, even if you
suspect that they're not. Because whenyou're talking about Bigfoot, you probably know
a little bit more about Bigfoot thanmost citizens do. Present the subject like

(23:47):
it's a rational subject worthy of investigationinstead of some hohoha that you know,
like with Oi gi boards and youknow, reading chicken bones or whatever.
You know, get that stuff awayfrom the subject. It'll sort of everyone
better. Yeah, It's like JoeRogan had on two guys like one week
or a week and a half thatwere just spouting out these they call them

(24:10):
theories, but basically nonsense to likeyou know, the science community. And
it was it caused a big,like international uproar, Like you know,
it's it's cool to hear other ideasand stuff, but having these guys on
such a huge platform, and likethe followers, like the accolytes they have
just like rejecting real scientists for likepseudosciences. It kind of is like,

(24:33):
you know, it's you see yousee the damage it does. You see
it on social media. You seethis social media where people are I heard
I heard a podcast once and theperson on the podcast was refuting this idea
the Sasquatches have ape like feet,like flat, flexible feet. And this
person had the gall to ask Meldrum, what makes your opinion there's a person

(24:56):
on there. And then Meldrum wason the same podcast, and and Meldrum
was saying, well, no,there's this blah blah blah, there's this
evidence here, and the person hadthe gall to ask Meldrum, what makes
your opinion any more valuable than myown on this matter? And this person
was like a food you know,like a service worker, like a food
service worker I believe and Meltrum justlike what he said, Well, because

(25:18):
I've devoted the entirety of my professionallife to this one subject, not Bigfoot,
but the you know, the anatomyof the ape foot. And but
people I see it online, Isee it on Facebook all the time where
people Meldrum doesn't know what he's talkingabout. The hell he doesn't know what
he's talking about. Like literally,he's devoted his entire professional career to the
anatomy of the ape foot. Heprobably knows what he's talking about, and

(25:42):
his opinion matters. And to likewhat you're saying, Bobo on this podcast
thing, like to discount scientists andtheir opinions and their their professional opinions is
ridiculous. In my opinions, it'sinsulting to them personally and anybody else who

(26:03):
likes the idea of science. Becauseremember, science isn't like I know it,
you don't. Science is a wayof thinking. It is a process
of getting to the truth. Andthat's why scientists publish papers. They put
a paper out and they say,hey, everybody, what do you think
of this idea, here's my evidence. Tear it apart, go for it.
Tear it apart and they do that'sthat's what science is. Here's my
idea, here's my evidence, andwhat do you think about it? And

(26:26):
then people can go in and nipnitpick and do things and kind of massage
these hypotheses into a theory. Itsounds like this person on the podcast,
if they came out with this theoryabout I think I caught some of that,
like math, math is incorrect orsome nonsense or whatever. Right,
one plus one on one times oneis two. Yeah, you know that's

(26:48):
not that's not a theory. Ithink that's they don't even understand that much.
A hypothesis is a general here's myguess, and if it stands up
to scrutiny for a while, thenit becomes a theory. And then if
you can sele it is something thatis more of a law, you know,
like we're talking about Newton's law orwhatever. But yeah, we live
in a very weird world where expertsare suddenly not experts. If what they

(27:10):
say doesn't agree with your own,usually uneducated opinion on the matter, it's
aggravating, you know. It's it'slike someone who's never looked into Bigfoot at
all tells me all these reasons whysasquatches could not possibly be real. It
comes back to Reneda Hendon, whohimself was not very educated, but very
intelligent. Man. Renea Hendon saidit best, man, without the facts,
your opinion doesn't matter. That's thetruest statement he ever made. It's

(27:33):
one of them. Yeah, that'sfor sure. Anyway, he got me
all fired up. Man. Justbad media, bad media. But again,
I wanted to wanted to put thatin here because of the damage that
these things do to us as individualsand the subject that we all love.
And those are the articles to getup there the most, those crazy ones
that are you know, just internetfodder, like just clickbait like that.

(27:53):
Those I get asked about those morethan anything real of course, of course.
Yeah, that that's what people want. They want something easy and clickbaitable,
and I don't have to think toohard about it. And I can
believe in magic. I can believein magic instead of learning about what's behind
it all. And you know magic, I mean everything's magic at some point
until you learn what and actually what'sgoing on, then suddenly it's science.

(28:15):
It's not magic. You know,it's ridiculous. And man, I played
dungeons and dragons. Man, ifanybody wants magic to be real, it's
me now, mind you, Miraculousthings do happen. I've had amazing things
in my life that are very hardto explain, but nothing with animals.
You know, I've never seen abear disappear into a portal. You know.
No elk has come around the cornerand told me a mathematical solution to

(28:37):
you know, some theorem that justdoesn't happen. Man, But people like
to believe that, and people loveto explain one unknown with another, but
it does not get us anywhere.Stop doing it. Yeah, so honest
say, like I mean, Ithink all the research that all the researches
just going to three D like observablescientific method and then if that other stuff's

(28:59):
real will come out. Yeah,yeah, start there. You know.
An analogy is like if you're ifyou're trying to pick up on somebody in
a bar, you don't start withi've got a foot fetish, Yeah tell
the first. Yeah, you don't. You don't start with your your your
more eccentric personality traits. You know, you just don't do that unless you're

(29:21):
wording on your sleeve. Yeah,I guess if you do start with your
more your your your more oblique personalitytraits or preferences, and they latch onto
you, you know you found theright person, right, so as you're
looking for I suppose so, Isuppose, So stay tuned for more Bigfoot

(29:41):
and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo willbe right back after these messages. Well,
Bobo, you want to choose thenext article, sure, let's see.
I like this one. Uh Rantingis using leaves from climbing vine for

(30:04):
actually inflammatory pain relieving properties. That'sa I mean, we figured they did,
you know, they must, butthey now proven that they do specifically
use that leave for that exit andthey put it in. They also use
SAP and these to treat open cuts, which is pretty awesome. Yeah.
Of course, you know, mostpeople probably don't realize this in our modern

(30:26):
age, but you know, prettymuch all I'm going to say all but
I probably is I'm probably not quitecorrect, but I'll say it anyway.
All medicines come from plants at somepoint or another, or you know,
they tear apart a plant, findout what that compound is inside the plant,
and then they replicate it inside alaboratory. You know, that's basically
the foundation of all medicinal sort ofscience in a way, herbology, because

(30:52):
plants have medicinal properties, and youknow, humans are part of the natural
world. We forget that sometimes thatwe are part of the natural world.
We're not over seedars of everything else. We are actually interwoven with the fabric
of everything else. We live onthe planet with everything else, and we
you know, go back ten thousandyears, we go back to one hundred

(31:12):
years, we were using plant medicinesall the time, and we've kind of
divorced ourselves from that in some sortof way because the birth of modern medicine
and science in chemistry and all thatsort of stuff. So we go into
the plant, we get the actualcompound out, we replicate it an a
laboratory, we mass produce it andsell it for wildly inflated prices. Essentially,

(31:33):
that's you know, the way ofthings nowadays. But you go back
far enough, and pretty much allof these compounds have a source in plants
at some point, and so itmakes sense that orangutans and all ape species
would be doing it, which Ithink is one of the interesting things about
examining closely what sasquatches are observed eating. I know that they've been seen in

(31:55):
willow thickets, and if I remembercorrectly, willows are a source of not
only vitamin C, which would bea pretty rare sort of thing in the
woods, I would imagine, butalso I believe that aspirin comes from the
bark of willows if I remember correctly. I could be wrong about that,
but that's what I seem to remember, and you know, so a useful

(32:20):
thing would be to perhaps do asurvey of medicinal wild native plants in your
area and examine the reports are sasquatchis seen eating that plant? And then,
of course most people don't aren't familiarwith plants, because that's one of
the consequences of us of civilization,of human beings domesticating themselves, is that

(32:43):
we've kind of divorced ourselves from theknowledge of the local plants and really animals
too in a certain area. Butit's an area worthy of study, and
that's kind of brings back to anotherpoint about how sasquatches. The study of
sasquatches is very, very multidisciplinary,and I think that's one of the cool
things about this subject is that nomatter what you are into, there's probably

(33:07):
a niche in this field that youcould occupy, you know, whether if
maybe you're a botanist and right atthe aluet what we're talking about here,
and a botanist can address the kindsof things that sasquatches are seen eating,
and maybe there's some sort of medicinaluse for them that would be drawing the
sasquatches in to eat those particular plants, you know. Or heck, if

(33:30):
you're a geologist, I know thatone scientist was looking at sasquatch reports and
their prevalence in areas with high mineralcontent in the ground. That's right up
a geologists you know, sleeve,so to speak, that they would love
to look into something like that.You know. So, no matter what
you're into, the Bigfoot subject hassomething for you. Now, look at

(33:54):
fox glove is a very very commonplant here in the Pacific Northwest. I
mean, I can't keep it outof my gardens. Might just let it
grow. It's a beautiful plant.It's a lovely, towering sort of flower.
But the plant itself is the sourceof a lot of heart medicines,
it turns out, you know,like so if somebody has a congestive heart

(34:15):
failure or whatever, the kind ofdrugs that they would be given by a
doctor. Their source is in Digitalis, which is a fox club. Of
course, it's a poisonous plant aswell, so you kind of have to
know what you're doing. And anothergreat example of a medicinal plant that is
very common throughout the entire Pacific Northwestis Devil's Club. Now I don't but

(34:37):
you don't know if there's Devil's Clubin other parts of the country, or
prove it you're back there somewhere.Does Devil's Club live in Tennessee or is
it is a Pacific Northwest thing.I've only ever encountered it in the Pacific
Northwest. I haven't seen it inany other part of the country. Well.
Yeah, it's a kind of anasty plant. I mean, it's
a really useful plant. I mean, it has fibers in it that the
native people use for baskets. It'sbut it is covered covered with spiky,

(34:59):
nasty thorn hoors, you know,and like the stems of this plant are
about as thick as your thumb.They grow between maybe three and six or
seven feet tall. They usually growin like Riparian environments sit right next to
rivers where it's very very moist,but the entire stem is just covered with
the nastiest thorns you could even youcan never imagine. And also the leaves

(35:22):
themselves are covered with thorns. It'sit's rare to find a plant where the
leaves themselves are also terrible as wellas the stem. And it's actually reflected
in the Latin name, the genusand species name taxonomic name of the planet
itself. I'm looking at it rightnow. It's opala plane x horridese horrids

(35:44):
as like horrid. It's terrible,but it's also very very useful, very
useful. It's used for rheumatism andstomach trouble. You can get you can
get rid of lice and dandriff withit. It's good for boils and infections.
So if you did see a sasquatchin a field of these things,

(36:06):
I don't think that I would suspectsasquatches would mind the thorns too much.
It be like a backscratcher to themprobably, And they're eating this stuff.
Well, then maybe then you haveyourself an interesting hypothesis. You know,
why is the sasquatch eating. Thiswould be a good question to ask,
and then you can say, well, maybe it's sick, maybe it has
an affection, maybe this, maybethat, and all these sort of things
would give us just a little bitof insight in the way sasquatches live,

(36:30):
especially if there is some sort ofway to verify that. Like if you
saw a sasquatch with a wound,for example, in a devil's club thicket
or something like that, and itwas tearing it off and putting it on
like they saw this orangutan in thearticle, that would be pretty cool.
That would be really neat, Andwe should expect that at some point,
after sasquatches can be studied in theirnatural environment doing what they naturally do,

(36:55):
we should expect to find this sortof behavior wherever they are in the convent,
using the local native plants to theirown benefit. You know, I
got to wonder, now, wheredid the orangutan learn this behavior? Well,
I said, they've never seen itdone by any other orangutan like that,
because it was putting on the liquidof it, it was spitting,
it was chewing the leaves and thenspitting it out of us, then swallowing

(37:17):
the leaves and then after a whileit choots something to quit and they would
take the whole chewed up leaf andpack it in the wound itself. After
you put all this the juicy chewedu about initially that he packed it with
the leaf matter. Well, youknow, in other ape species are known
to do this sort of thing aswell, because I think we did talk
about something like this a few yearsago, but I think it was a

(37:37):
chimpanzees being seen eating and using medicinalplants. And again, you know,
they're apes, they're smart. Theydo that. We're apes, We're smart,
we do that. It makes perfectsense that sasquatches would probably do this
same sort of stuff too, especiallywith the bounty of medicinal plants here in

(37:58):
the in on our content in it. You know, yeah, I heard
a theory one time, or anidea that early Native people, you know,
think about like, you know,fifteen twenty thirty thousand years ago,
and the very very first humans weremaking their way to North America and to
this brand new continent where everything iskind of peculiar, Like obviously there were
redwoods here. There are redwoods overin Asia at the same latitude. There's

(38:21):
probably some similarities. You know.That's one of the things I noticed traveling
with finding Bigfoot is that everywhere wewent that there were sasquatches. Most places
had ferns, you know, mostplaces had rhododendrons or something just like them.
The similarities were very interesting to me. So as people, you know,
made their way slowly over generations ontothis continent, they probably were kind

(38:42):
of picking up like, well,we ate those before we could eat those
here. And because this migration didn'thappen in one generation, it happened over
many, many generations of humans comingto North America. But I've heard a
theory that people learned what they couldeat by watching the other animals, watching
grizzly bears or bears in general,doing the black bears, maybe doing what
they do, and then trying thosefood items out, because you know,

(39:06):
it's a scary thing trying a newfood item out. You know, there
are mushrooms here in the Pacific Northwestthat if you eat them, everything seems
fine until five to seven days laterwhen your liver shuts down and you die.
You know, eating new food itemsis a treacherous gamble, I think.
But as one moves into a newarea, if you look at what

(39:28):
the other animals that are kind ofsimilar to you in some ways, like
bears and stuff, what they're eating, then you have a head start on
that. Perhaps, you know,so maybe that's how ape species including humans,
learned new medicinal treatments for whatever ailsthem. But I don't know.
I'm just kind of hypothesizing right now, So not theorizing, hypothesizing as correct,

(39:52):
just kind of thinking, kind ofthinking out loud, which is what
this podcast is all about. Andsometimes, you know, we got another
orangutang article the nest building. Yeah, yeah, there is another orangutan article.
It's right here. It's called Somatrin. Orangutans start crafting their engineering skills
as infants. The baby primates startearly on nest building techniques, a craft

(40:14):
that takes years to hone. Yeah, this is an interesting article to me
because you know, I've been privilegedenough to see the actual nests at the
Olympic Project site. In both locations, there's two nest sites, if you
want to call them that. Now. The first, the first nest site
isn't that's probably not the best wordsfor it, actually, because there's actually

(40:34):
over twenty nests about over maybe ahalf mile or so stretch of ridge.
So the entire ridge is kind ofreferred to as the first nest site,
and the second nest site, tomy knowledge, only has a nest.
There's only one nests on that secondridge that they've found so far. If
I'm correct, and I could bewrong about that, We should probably have
Shane or somebody back on the podcastfor some updates at some point. I

(40:57):
think it'd be fun. But thefirst nest site, once they started looking
for examples that matched what they wereobserving. When I say they the Olympic
Project guys, you know, andthe guys and gals at the Olympic Project,
when they started looking online for thingsthat looked like what they had found
in the woods, the best matchby far was gorillaests. Gorillas, of

(41:20):
course, are mostly terrestrial animals.They don't really go in trees a whole
lot, especially as they grow olderand larger. They're pretty much terrestrial animals
for the most part, especially mountaingorillas the largest of the gorillas. There's
you know, a couple probably subspeciesof gorillas, but there's the two main
categories are lowland gorillas, which arethe ones that you've always seen in zoos.

(41:43):
And there's also mountain gorillas, whichare very rare. I think there's
less than there's about three hundred ofthem in the world, or so approximately
maybe four hundred if we're lucky.They're larger than lowland gorillas, and for
some reason they die in captivity.I've always found that to be interesting.
But you've never seen a mountain gorillain captivity because they die. Kind of

(42:04):
wonder if a sasquatch would do thatthe same thing. But when the Olympic
Project was looking at these nests ofgorillas, one of the things they found
was a peculiar sort of nest upin a bush, up in a bush
like off the ground. The restof these purported sasquatch nests are actually on
the ground, but there was anest like structure inside a bush a few

(42:27):
feet off the ground. And bystudying gorilla nests, what the Olympic Projects
stumbled upon was that gorillas teach theiryoung to make nests in trees and shrubs
off the ground, just a fewfeet off the ground sometimes, or maybe
up on a tree a little bitmore. Could that be what the Olympic
Project found at the first nest site. I think so. I think so

(42:52):
too, And as evidence to supportmy hypothesis, we have to come back
to Lori. Joe Hamilton, agood friend of mine, great researcher,
one of these quiet people, totallyoff the radar, Very few people know
about her. She had been workingthe area for sasquatch footprints for years before

(43:14):
the nest site was discovered. Nowit's kind of funny because Laurie doesn't know
where the nest site is even tothis day, and the Olympic Project folks
didn't know anything about Lori until Imade the connection between the two groups.
Laurie had been finding sasquatch footprints aroundthat general area of the nest site,
with a few miles here, east, west, north, south, all

(43:35):
that stuff for years before the OlympicProject stumbled across these nests. Then,
of course, the nests were areon private land, so Laurie would have
no access to the area and allthat other stuff. But some of the
footprint casts that Laurie had discovered previousto the discovery of the nests are juvenile
prints. She gave me the Originals. I have the Originals in my collection.

(43:57):
They're about seven eight inches long,probably the same animal. I have
two casts of these two casts fromthe general area, so we know that
juvenile sasquatches are in the area ofthese nests. And the fact that the
Olympic Project found nests off the groundin the same sort of style that gorillas

(44:19):
teach their juveniles when they're teaching themthe skills to make nests. I think
that's really cool. I think that'sreally really cool. And I also think
that this is an interesting trail ofclues to follow when you're trying to hone
in, like trying to close inon a hypothesis of some sort. You
know, we can now I thinksafely hypothesize that sasquatches teach their young to

(44:45):
make nests in the same manner asgorillas, because it's a sound idea and
there's actually evidence from nearby to supportthat this might be going on. I
think that's great. It's a muchsafer way to approach this. Then bigfoots
made these nests and there's juveniles,and this is why, Well, that
might be true, but it's it'scareful the language we use when we're talking

(45:07):
about sasquatches. We want to appearsane, even if it's challenging stay tuned
for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliffand Bogo will be right back after these
messages. The orangutans they started,they said, start building it. Six

(45:30):
months they practiced like and they're terribleat it. But by the time there
are three or four that are buildingup to twenty nests a day. Practicing.
It's their main thing they do tolike, you know, keep themselves
busy when they're when they're young,but still stick with they're not weaned yet,
Like that's one of their main activitiesbesides of play is building nests and
they build them above it's the fourfive. They can build pretty decent ones

(45:53):
that they'll so they build them abovethe mother's nests in case because there takes
years and years to make us structurallysound one and uh so they'll build it
a build the mother's nests. Uffit does collapse, they just follow,
you know, a few feet they'reon they're on the mother's nest. You
know. This article talks a littlebit about after they they've kind of got

(46:15):
the foundations of nest building, uhyou know down they start building in comfort
features, which I think is kindof cool as well, you know,
like roofs, or like soft thingsor blankets and that kind of thing.
The blankets made not not real blankets, of course, but blankets made out
of foliage, but of plants andleaves and that sort of stuff. Now,
having seen the Olympic Project nests,I can't really say that there are

(46:37):
any comfort features in them, exceptthe second nest site might be an exception,
and I've talked about that before inthe podcast. How I believe that
the sasquatch was repurposing a bare denfor its own purpose, because it was
like a little heidi hole cave thingunder a log. And of course we've

(46:58):
also spoken to people on this podcastswho had seen sasquatches running out of their
hiding places inside big hollow logs andthat sort of stuff. So maybe that's
the idea of a creature comfort.I guess for these creatures is some sort
of a roof or whatever, butI don't really know. I don't really
know because the nest sites so farare I wouldn't say singular, but I

(47:19):
will say that they're extraordinarily rare,and I can see why, having seen
the nests, they would easily beeither missed or ignored as maybe a bear
den or something like that, ifit wasn't for those rocks that were found
adjacent to one of the nests thathad clearly been struck together because of the
scoring on there, or the Sasquatchfootprints that were found literally underneath the nesting

(47:39):
material, indicating that they were depositedthere in the substrate before the nesting material
was piled upon it. So yeah, but I could easily say you would
never even notice these things, Andluckily the timber cruiser who found them recognized
that they were unusual and reported themto Derek Randalls. This is it for

(48:00):
a ring of towns for now.Well for now, we'll be back,
I'm sure. Yeah. Oh youknow when I thought I sent in,
but I didn't. I wanted tosend in that one about the update on
the tours on the on the clunderearlier. So using your voice, your
narration for the Bigfoot tour I saw, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,

(48:21):
the Spirit Boat tours. I helpedthem a couple of years ago before COVID
to develop a Bigfoot tour on theColumbia River where basically you go down downtown.
You know where amsy is right,The Oregon Museum of Science and Industry
it's downtown on the Willamette River.Their their offices are right next door to
Amsy and you can go and youcan hop on a boat there and it's
cool. Say this this really fastjet boat. It's pretty cool, man.

(48:45):
And I think the tour is runningin the same sort of way.
I don't think they shortened it orlengthened it or anything like that. So
you hop on the boat there,and you have these Bluetooth headphones that you
put on and then you hear myvoice because I did the narration. I
supplied all the contents, I supplythe artifacts, I supplied everything with this
tour. And you hop on theboat there, and I mean, it's

(49:07):
a great boat, right anyway,you know, there's so much stuff to
see, like in downtown Portland fromthe river. And when you give back,
so they drive up the wa ordrive down the Willamette River to the
confluence where it flows into the ColumbiaRiver, and then they hang a right
and they go upstream all the wayto Cascade Locks. I think. So
it's kind of a run, man. But you're on this rad boat that

(49:29):
goes really fast, and you havethese headphones on and at various points on
the tour. You hear me myvoice talking about the various points of interest
in the area, you know,like I go over the Abe Canyon event,
for example, or I go oversome of the siding reports around Beacon
Rock from back in the day thatled to the passage of the law in

(49:50):
this Camania County that made it illegalissued sasquatches, or you know, just
points of interest, both Bigfoot centricas also and also just a normal tourism
stuff that a lot of people areinterested in. So yeah, that tour
is up and running again, andit's gonna be running I think until September.
It's not directly associated with the museumor anything, but I will say

(50:13):
I like it. It's cool.I've been on the tour myself. I
got to go out with you know, on the maiden voyage so to speak.
It ran last year too, butat some point or another, the
boat ran into a little bit ofengine trouble, so they had to stop
it a few weeks early. Butapparently it's a brand new engine in the
boat. They redid the whole thingand it's up and running and super cool.
A lot of people have been cominginto the museum saying that they did

(50:35):
visit that or were going to,and the reviews are are pretty pretty good,
man, So it's something to beproud of. So if you want
to spend a day on a river, which is a good idea because it's
you know, it's pretty hot uphere being summer and all. But if
you want to spend a day ona river and go check out some beautiful
sites, see the waterfalls all upand down the Columbia River from the water
itself, and learn a little bitabout about the Bigfoot history and lore of

(50:58):
the area directly from me, it'sa great way to spend a day.
Man. I wanted to ask youbecause they have a big Foot tour guide
that goes off of what you say. I guess, like for follow up
stuff, did you like give likeadvise them at all? For those guys
the docents, I guess they areor something like no, no, no,
I don't know who they have.It's probably they probably have a variety

(51:20):
a small number of people that dothat sort of thing. But the docin
is important because also on this tour, besides just wearing earphones and listening to
my voice telling you stuff, Isupplied a bunch of reality. I supplied
a bunch of footprint casts, andI supplied some pheromone chips and that sort
of thing so people can look andfeel and touch and smell various items,
because I think, Bobo, youknow how it is with you see a

(51:43):
footprint cast in a book and thenyou see the footprint cast in person.
It's a different experience. I hearpeople say it in the museum all the
time, like I've only seen picturesof these things. They look so different
in real life. It has awhole other dimension. It really does,
it really does. So I rememberpart of the I remember speaking about how
the Sasquatch foot is different than thehuman foot in various ways, in the

(52:06):
midfoot flexibility and all that sort ofjazz. And I remember I supplied Freeman
cast from nineteen ninety one from theMill Creek Road incident there that has a
beautiful mid tarsal pressure ridge in it. Or I think I even gave him
a copy of the Patterson stuff.I'm not sure. I had to go
back and check that, but yeah, so, I don't know. It's
a good tour. It's a goodtour. It's a lot of fun.
It's on the water. Portland's abeautiful town. Yeah, so I would

(52:30):
recommend that if you're coming to thePacific Northwest, you know, either right
before or right after you come tothe North American Bigfoot Center, go on
that tour. It's pretty cool.I've done it, I liked it,
I'd do it. So I'm gladthat's speaking the news out there. I
know that the Spirit boat tours cameby a couple of weeks ago and dropped
off some flyers at the museum.Well, you know, Bob, but
we have a number of articles herethat we didn't even get to. There's

(52:52):
one about full sequences of various apespecies like chromosomes. What light that has
upon us, you know, becauseone of the main reasons we study great
apes in general, and I wouldsay this is included including Sasquatch, is
to learn a little bit about ourselvesand our brethren. There's another one about
a new great ape species discovered inthe fossil record, a very small one

(53:15):
twenty two pounds or so or somethinglike that. We had a couple other
articles that we're not just not goingto have time to get to because we
need to get off the line hereand jump onto our members section. Our
members section today or this week,I guess for you listeners out there,
we're going to be talking about theBlue Mountain expedition that I did about a
week and a half two weeks ago, and we're going to take some of
the questions from our members. Soif you want to become a member,

(53:36):
click that show note thing that Mattpro puts down there every single episode,
and come and join us. Comejoin us in the Beyond Bigfoot and Beyond
section. Yep, that's right,folks, join us in the Beyond big
Foot and Beyond. But thank youfor joining us in Bigfoot and Beyond with
Cliff and Bobo. We appreciate it. And until next week, y'all keep
it squatchy. Thanks for listening tothis week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.

(54:04):
If you liked what you heard,please rate and review us on iTunes,
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