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January 6, 2025 58 mins
Cliff Barackman and James "Bobo" Fay welcome the marvelous Marc Myrsell back to the show! Marc discusses his ongoing research into the Ape Canyon saga and his sighting of two sasquatches in Oregon!

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bubo. These guys,
are you faeve? It's so like say subscribe and rade
it five.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Star and.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Greatest on yesterday listening, oh watching Limb always keep it's watching.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
And now you're hosts Cliff Berckman and James Boobo Fay.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
But but you heard about the tragedy of there's two
men dying to the elements up there in Scamania County.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yeah, asn't asked you do you know who that was? Yet?

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Not yet, not yet, we don't have The names are
not being released as of this recording, and of course
we are recording on New Year's Eve, so December thirty first,
twenty twenty four, that's when we're recording this. It comes
out in a couple more days here. But as of now,
the names have not been released. Although I spent a
good portion of my day yesterday oddly enough handling press staff,

(01:00):
I did a TV spot from the local news stations
of Willamitt Week reached out to me and kind of
a mixed bag there. One of the I'm not sure
what made the edit on the TV or what's going
to make the edit. When they released the Wilamite News.
But they actually asked me, do I think bigfoots are
responsible or at least one of the one of the
reporters asked me, and I said, no, of course not,
of course not, and just kind of tried to ground

(01:23):
the articles a little bit, you know, by just saying
bigfooting is going outside and looking around for an animal,
just like you're bird watching or you're going to look
for deer or something like that. It's it's like hunting
or skiing or any other outdoor pursuit. You leave your
you step out your door. It's very dangerous business sipping
out your door.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
Yeah. My guess is that they were this is a
total guests, is that they're probably hard working dudes or
you know, busy guys, and this is like it was
obviously a bad time to be out there.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
I mean, these giant storms rolling through.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
They probably you know, they had this time blocked off
and they and they had they just like we're doing it.
We're going to tough it out. That's what I'm imagining happened,
and it just got worse than expected. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, and since both of them passed, so it came
to the elements there I have to assume some sort
of snow related thing. What little I did see there
was some snow on the ground. I'm assuming their car
got stuck, but I don't know what it is. Search
and Rescue commented that it was perhaps due to not
being prepared in some sort of way. So we're going
to try to address that a little bit because a

(02:25):
couple of our members have reached out to us and
suggested that we do episodes about what we bring and
why we bring it out bigfooting, and you know, safety
and survival is a big part of that in a
lot of ways. So we're gonna try to address some
of this in the upcoming episodes of Bigfoot and Beyond
here and also just just we're whatever it's worth. I mean,
there's nothing you can say when somebody that you love dies,

(02:49):
of course, but you know, over here Big Thing and Beyond,
we are thinking of the families because realistically, that could
be anyone of our families with just a little bit
going wrong at any given time. Because I was talking
to Nico about this, and of course Nico trains people
in survival skills, and he's a train tracker and all
that sort of stuff, and Nico is saying, like, you know,
even if you're completely prepared, it only makes the survival

(03:12):
situation easier and doesn't guarantee the outcome. Right, the woods
are no joke. There's a bottom line, So our thoughts
are with them. I me know that we're thinking of
those families because that could be our family if we're
not careful.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, I had tons of people going, do you know
who is it? Who is it? I'm like, I don't know.
I think I think we would have heard by now
if it was someone we were friends with, I think,
but who knows. We'll see.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah, I don't think I would be friends with them
because again, like you said, I think I would have
been told by now. But I'm those people are from Portland.
I'm wondering if they're museum members. Right, you know, it's
a very real possibility, and you know what you know,
to add tragedy to tragedy. By the way, I caught
on the news this morning that while the search and
rescue team was out dealing with this or another case,

(04:00):
but I think it was actually this one, someone broke
into their compound and stole two of their supply trailers.
From the search and rescue.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
I saw that dude. That's disgusting, absolutely terrible.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, and of course, so they're out a lot of money,
et cetera. But you know, I saw that on the news.
They started a go fund me, So, Matt Pru, why
don't you put the GoFundMe url the web web address
into the show notes in case any of us listening
out there want to help them out in some.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
Sort of way.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
So, because I saw the sheriff on the news this
morning in my newsfeed, and she was a sheriff was
down there. She was saying, yeah, well basically I'm summarizing here.
This isn't an exact quote, but she's saying basically, yeah,
don't get lost in Scamania County because these thieves took
the stuff and it's going to be a while till
we get to you. So yeah, that's an example of
a crime having real life and death consequences. So to if,

(04:50):
just in case people are listening and you're the one
who stole that stuff, you're a jackass, feel free to
return it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
That's one of those things, you know, like the not
a butterfly effect exactly, but I mean direct, it's a
direct effect. I mean people's there's search and rescue. I mean,
people could easily die due to this theft, you know,
some tweakers or whatever. You know, it's just that's stuff.
Just chest my ass to tenth degree.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Oh yeah, well, why don't we move on to something
slightly lighter, or actually a lot lighter, something that makes
my heart sore? Our guest, Bob, why don't you do
the honors?

Speaker 2 (05:23):
All right, folks, we're very honored, proud, and in irreverent
mood because we have one of the greatest men on
earth here today to join us. He's been voted best
hair and big Footing in three or four times now,
and the guy's a legend. He's a good friend of ours.
We all love him to death. Mark Burcell from Washington, Slash,
Oregon and just out of the world. Yay, Mark.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't know about the hair
a words. Really, I wasn't ever notified. I would have
like bragged about it more. I made a T shirt
or yeah, a whole line of T shirts. I knew
I had the best hair in big footing. So anyway, thanks,
pull on a hair products. Oh yeah, oh that's a
great idea. Okay, Yeah, I'm gonna work. I'm going to

(06:08):
work on that anyway.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Thanks.

Speaker 4 (06:09):
Thanks for having to me.

Speaker 3 (06:10):
Back on you know, all of us, all of us
here are such great friends. I was thinking about coming
on today with you guys, and I realized that I
kind of like get confused about what we've talked about
in previous podcasts and what we've just talked about privately.
So I don't know if if I ramble on about

(06:31):
something I've already talked about on a previous podcast, just
let me know, because I don't know, I get confused.
I just saw all of you guys a few days ago,
so well, I think.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
It's a gross oversight on our part to have you
only on every few years. But it's been a couple
of years at least, and I know that twenty twenty
four was a huge year for Ape Canyon, and we
haven't even had you once since you had your sighting either,
so I know that there's a lot to talk about here,
and of course, well, and we're such good friends, we
have so much to say to each other. We'll be
doing a members episode after this as well, where our

(07:02):
members have actually contributed questions specifically for you, so we'll
be dealing with that later. But why don't we start
before we get into the sighting, because I want to
talk about that in the projects that we haven't seen
much of yet, the Thompson Flat stuff and all that jazz.
But twenty twenty four was a huge ear for Ape
Canyon in lots of ways. I mean, not only was
it the centennial, the one hundred year anniversary of the events,

(07:25):
but new discoveries were made, new contacts were made, We
have views that we've never seen before. Do you want
to tell us what twenty twenty four looked like for
the Epe Canyon project.

Speaker 4 (07:35):
Yeah, it was a very very strange year.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
You know.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
The thing about what I feel is a good project,
not just big just not a Bigfoot project, but just
any research that you're doing. I don't I don't really
like to banter around the term science or scientists because
nobody is a licensed card carrying scientist. You're a chemical
gist specializing in basalt. You're a marine mammal researcher, you know,

(08:04):
so you have these specialties. But any good research project
that you're doing that's worth its salt is never ever done.
It's always something new. If you think that you have
come to conclusions and that this research project is done,
you're kind of making a mistake. You always have to

(08:25):
leave the door open for something new. So sometimes in
the Ape Canyon project, I think, yeah, it's kind of
coming down to the bitter end and there's not that
much more, and then suddenly, out of the blue, completely unexpected,
there's something new that shows up. So twenty four was
a massive year for Ape Canyon and it really opened

(08:47):
up literally literally opened up a lot on the project.
Early on, oh, I think it was late twenty three,
early twenty four. I was messing around the Devil's Magic
they called the Internet on Facebook, and someone had a
page about Mount Saint Helens before the eruption in nineteen

(09:08):
eighty and someone had contributed pictures of the fire lookout
up on top of Mount Saint Helens being built in
nineteen twenty four, and there are a couple of photos
of these rangers, and I look at the description and
it's like, holy smokes. The two guys and the photos

(09:29):
are Bill Welch and Jim Huffman, the two rangers who
were pretty important characters in the entire eight Canyon story.
There were important characters in the incident. Bill Welch was
the head ranger at sparent Lake and Jim Huffman was
the ranger down down south in the next district. They're
at the Lewis River. So I reached out to the

(09:50):
Facebook administrator and he put me on contact with the
woman who contributed these photos. Well, it turns out that
the women who contributed the photos were Bill Welch's great
grand niece. It was her grandfather's brother, and so I
reached out to her and she knew the entire Ape
Canyon story and she was like, oh, well, I have

(10:13):
some neat stuff in my family photo album and I'll
share it with you. And she sent me digitized copies
basically just like a photograph of the individual photos. And
these were amazing, amazing photos that had never been seen
outside of her family. It was just amazing photos. As

(10:35):
an example, we had before this, we only had one photo,
one known photo that was published in The Oregonian of
the cabin in nineteen twenty four, and I'd been looking
for the original and may have been destroyed, but it's
just a grainy newspaper photo. It helped a lot in

(10:55):
the project of finding the cabin site, but it was
still just kind of a funky, grainy photo. Well man,
these Sandy Moyer photos were so clear and so amazing
that actually I sent them to photographer friends just on
the off chance because it almost looked like AI generated.
They were so crystal clear, just to plug the North

(11:16):
American Bigfoot Center. You can see them on display at
the NABC right now. They were so good. I thought
they were AI generated, but no, my photographer friends said, no,
this is the real deal. So we ended up with
these tremendous, amazing photos of Fred and Leroy. These photos
were taken about a week after the attack when Fred

(11:38):
Beck and Leroy Smith went up to the cabin site
with reporters with Bill Welch and Jim Huffman, and that's
when the photo so we know exactly when those photos
were taken, and it was just tremendous. The photos are
just amazing. The other thing that literally opened up is

(11:59):
that you and I Cliff went up on the ninety
ninth anniversary and twenty twenty three, went up on the
mountain and hung out for two or three days, and
we were supposed to be joined by three fellows who
I call the Mitchell Brothers. Actually two of them are
brothers and one is a cousin. It's Jake, Jared and

(12:22):
Brayden Mitchell. They were going to join us, but there's
a mishap and they couldn't join us, and they ended
up going back up there after we came off the
mountain about two or three weeks later. I had given
them rough directions as best directions as I could to
get to the cabin site, which I don't give out,

(12:43):
but it's their family story. So I was like, Okay,
here's how you get to the cabin. Well, these guys
are young, and they're incredibly energetic. You know, people think
I'm nuts for what I do, you know, up at
eight Canyon, but you should see these guys. These guys
are like leave being down the rock face like Gazelle's
like antelope and I'm gonna flow down. Wow, geez, you know,

(13:06):
they're just amazingly energetic. Well, they after they did it
three times and they couldn't find the cabin site on
the third try, they finally, in one weekend, they got
to the they got to the cabin and figured it out. Okay,
this is that. Well they just went a little bit further.
Jake went down and Brandon and Jared are at the

(13:27):
top at the cabin site watching him, and they accidentally
kicked down just this little pubbly rock and they watched
this rock just skid her right past Jake into this
little trough in the rock, and that rock just was
just pointing and leading him right to the mine. And
they were able to find the mine on that trip,

(13:51):
which you and I, Cliff have been down there, and
you know, we were like within just feet just a
few feet of the mine entrance. But you can really
see the Mind entrance unless you're like right on top
of it, unless you're basically standing right in front of it.
So that was a that was just a tremendous discovery
that you know, it's just the gift that keeps on giving. Really,

(14:14):
there's all this new information coming out all the time.
So getting getting the Mind has opened up new leads,
have not not caving leads or underground leads, but have
opened up new leads to pursue regarding gold and essays
and and that kind of thing for the whole tip

(14:34):
of the whole story together.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Wow, and just how fantastic is it that actual family
members rediscovered the mind?

Speaker 2 (14:42):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (14:42):
Absolutely absolutely, And again it's their story and you know
the Mitchell guys and I've I've hung out with them
a lot, and they're not necessarily big footy bigfooters or anything.
You know, They're not those kind of people and have
and they're great because they have high end skepticism about
the whole phenomenon, so they're really not interested. Well they

(15:03):
are interested in Bigfoot, but they're mainly interested in their
family history and for them, for the Mitchells to find it,
the great grandsons of Leroy Perry Smith, that's just fantastic.
It's their story.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Bobo will be right back after these messages. Well, we'll
get back to the Abe Canyon thing when we talk
to the members that during the member episode. And of course,
if you want to be a member, there's a link
in the show notes. Check it out. Maybe it's for you,
I don't know. But other things have been happening as well,

(15:40):
And I don't know what you have. You know in
your bonnet about cabins that are attacked by sasquatches, but
you had this whole project in southern Oregon with Bobo,
so you guys can talk about that but during that
adventure you actually had an observation of a sasquat or
two sasquatches. So fill us in on, you know, set
up the story there to what were you guys doing

(16:01):
down there? When can we expect to see the project?
And what happened? What did you observe?

Speaker 3 (16:06):
Well, it was the strangest five seconds in my life.
This has been a long term project. I'm calling it
the Thompson Flat Monster Project. This is in southwest Oregon,
in Curry County, which is like the most southern southwesterly
county in Oregon. We're about sixty miles from the California

(16:26):
border and over the course of golly Man probably about
forty years or so down in this very very limited
small area in and around this area called Thompson Flat,
which is on the south fork of that Sixes River,
there were multiple sightings and encounters with a sasquatch like

(16:52):
creature creatures starting around eighteen seventy five eighteen seventy six,
and these have and quite often going into the nineteen
teens and early nineteen twenties. And some of these encounters
were not pleasant. It wasn't just like a fleeting, a

(17:15):
fleeting silhouette going across the road. Some of them were
incredibly aggressive. The reason why humans were down there to
have these encounters is that this was a gold mining area.
And the first encounter, first encounter in eighteen seventy five
was with the prospector and Tom said that he was

(17:36):
picked up by this hairy individual by the scraff in
the back, and it happened so quickly he couldn't get
a really good look at it. But Tom was throttled
and thrown down this hillside and knocked unconscious. His friends
came up a few days later, found him alive and
nursed him back to health. Well when Tom he did

(17:58):
find gold on that trip, and the word got out
and the whole area became known as the gold Rush
of Southwest Oregon, and there were many many people who
went up there to work on gold mines. At first
they were just doing load claims tunneling into the side

(18:20):
of the river, and then later they found out it
was a little bit easier to do plaster locations. So
at one point in the eighteen eighties there were about
forty people who lived in small tents and cabins up
around Thompson Flat on the river. And they were working
their own individual claims, but then they would come together

(18:43):
in it's sort of a communal kind of setting and
share food and share stories and that kind of thing. Well,
one at a time, over the period of about eighteen months,
four miners showed up dead, and it was a kind
of thing of like, oh, well, where's John. He should
be by now, And they go up to his claim
and they find John dead. Each each of these four

(19:06):
individuals either had their heads bashed in or their bodies
beaten to just throttle and to a pulp. Well, people
got scared and they started vacating the area quite quickly.
There was only one fellow named Mike Madigan who was
living up there at his cabin and his claim. His
cabin is actually still standing and it's actually in very

(19:29):
very good shape. He had had a previous encounter where
he's he was. He had a gold he had a
golden mine. But he was sort of like the village huntsman,
and he would go out and hunt and bring back
food and and trade it for supplies and everything. And
he was out with his dogs one day and there

(19:50):
was this large creature. The interesting thing about Thompson Flat
are the are these encounters keep describing this individual as
not this monster ten foot tall, bigfoot like character. It's
like six or seven feet tall kid, just routinely, over
and over again described as being yellow or blonde in

(20:10):
hair color. One of Madigan's dogs takes after it, and
the creature picks up the dog, throbbles it and throws
it down the hillside. Madigan starts shooting at the individual,
and the second dog takes off to to the to
the bigfoot, and the bigfoot picks it up, and Madigan
shots going into this creature seemingly to be a seeming

(20:33):
completely unaffected, and so Madigan gets out of there.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
He was famous to the mad what they call the
Mad Mike whatever, and Grizzly Mike. He he was famous
for hunting down and killing grizzly bears. And he had
these the dogs were big, huge stud dogs that he'd
used to take, you know, corner of the grizzlies. So
this guy was like he wasn't you know, it wasn't
like just some minor guy up there. This guy was

(20:59):
a lot legend, like big fearless stud guy he was.

Speaker 3 (21:03):
And that's why they called him grizz Yeah, that's what
was his nickname Griz Madigan because he had had he
had had I had a little little close encounter with
with a with a bear, with a grizzly that left
these huge scratch marks. And in the previous issue with
his bear, the bear had gotten so close that it
was able to claw his face and he had this

(21:24):
series of scars across his face. The guy, the guy
was just like, you know, the guy was a monster outdoorsman.
He you know, it wasn't You're right, it wasn't just
some guy out there wandering with his out there with
his dogs with a baby gun. He really knew what
he was doing, right.

Speaker 2 (21:39):
Yeah, he had a high caliber He had a high
caliber rifle for grizzlies.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, right, exactly, exactly. Yeah, you bring up a really
good point, and this this one encounter with his dogs
was not point blank range, but it was within seventy
seventy five feet one hundred feet or so of this individual,
and he was like blasting this big foot like creature.
But like other encounters, sort of like the Ape Canyon story,

(22:04):
it just didn't seem to have any effects on the creature.
The creature didn't care. So Madigan, you know, got back
later on when this area called Butcher Golds, right next
to right next to Thompson Flat. Everyone's gone and Madigan's
up there by himself. He hasn't come back into town
for a couple of weeks. So his friend Ramsey goes

(22:28):
up there looking for him, goes up to his cabin,
he's not there. Goes up up the hill up towards
his claim and there's this odd sort of pile of
rocks that seemed to be not naturally placed there, and
he pulls the rocks away and there's Madigan dead. Ramsey
recognized him by his gun and his knife. He wasn't

(22:50):
he wasn't completely decomposed, but he had been there for
a while oddly enough, seemingly to be buried in sort
of this fashion who laid on the ground and covered
with rocks. So there were still some people going up
there for gold claims in the eighteen nineties late eighteen
nineties there was a fellow who had a couple of

(23:14):
claims up there named Harrison, and he had had a friend,
a family friend, and another family friend helping him work
on the claim. They had built a cabin at Thompson
Flat and it was the Harrison cabin. And in nineteen
oh four, the couple of the guys were in there
at night and something had come and started beating the cabin.

(23:36):
You know, it's really shaking it and beating it. They
go through the door and they see this individual right
there in front, in front of the door. They take
shots at it again. The creature goes back into the
tree line and ends up throwing rocks back at them.
Just a few days later, one of the same individuals,

(23:58):
of the same humans, along with two of Harrison's sons
were in the cabin and the cabin gets attacked again.
And at this point they were ready and they just
start coming out of there shooting at this creature. At
that point, there may have been I have to go
back and look at it. There may have been more
than one individual attacking the cabin. There were stories in

(24:21):
they gave us clues about this cabin because they talked
about opening the door, and the door faced a certain
apple tree where this creature or creatures were coming and
where they had exited. And so naturally, a cabin in
the woods being attacked by sasquatch gold shooting these creatures

(24:43):
seemingly to no effect. I was like, well, that's right
up my alley. That's a crazy thing is that this
was these had all the ear markings of Abe Canyon,
but it occurred twenty years before Abe Canyon, hundreds of
miles away in Oregon, And so I started three researching
it to death. Given the fact that these encounters took

(25:06):
place over the period of like thirty or forty years,
it's going to take me a long long time to
sift through all of this information. There's a lot more
document research to do. I feel there's a lot more
field research to do as well to look for field evidence.
But anyway, that's that's how that's That was the basic
story that really grabbed me. And then one day the

(25:27):
phone rings and it's ring ring ring, and it's like Mark, dude,
it's Bobo. Hey, I want to make a I want
to make a documentary on Thompson Flat. And that's basically
why we were up there work working on working on
the Thompson Flat Monster project.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Now, Bobo's in pretty tight lift about this entire project.
So I know that you guys probably don't want to
spill all the beans, so to speak. But it was
during one of these filming sessions that you actually saw
the Sasquatches, right, That is right.

Speaker 4 (25:55):
The story.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
Is that it was me and Bobo and Rowdy, Kelly
and two production as Sam and Gordon I believe was
with us that time, and also our friend Kim Christensen
who grew up in band and Kim's really cool. She's

(26:22):
very much a pioneer woman. She stands with like five
feet and must be all of ninety pounds, and yeah,
she's a true pioneer. She grew up without electricity for
the longest time with her mom and dad, worked in
the cranberry farms and stuff, and knows the woods really well.
So we're done with the filming project. And by the way,

(26:44):
at that d during that trip we ended up finding
the location of the nineteen oh four Harrison cabin as well.
It worked out really well, like Bobo said, when we
were able to determine the actual cabin, Bobo was like,
that almost seems staged because we found it so easily.

(27:06):
But we're all done filming. We're kind of breaking up.
The whole plan was was that Rowdy and Bobo and
I had more filming to do at a local newspaper
office in Myrtle Point, Oregon, and we're all going to
drive down and we're going to meet on the highway
and where we can get some reception and figure out

(27:27):
where we're going to stay that night. So Sam and Gordon,
the two production assistants, left. They went back home to
northern California around Humboldt, and Kim is like, okay, well,
I'm going to take off too. I'll see you guys later.
And Bobo and Rowdy just had to load up the
ATVs onto the trailer. So Kim takes off and I say, okay,

(27:51):
I'm going to meet you guys down at the highway.
And I take off too, and I'm driving and these
four service roads are basically one lane roads, maybe a
lane and a half, and up ahead. This is in
the afternoon in November. Up ahead, I see Kim pulled
off to the side and I stop and it's everything okay,

(28:15):
and she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm I'm just checking
the map to go and visit a lake where Kim
had had some encounters up there as well. She wanted
to revisit the lake and was checking out the map
and I'm like, oh, okay, see yeah. So I'm driving
and this is a very very wooded area. Some of

(28:36):
it had been logged previously, but not a lot because
it's just very, very steep and rugged. It's sort of
like a mini Rockies. So what I'm saying is is
getting dark. It's about five o'clock at night in November,
and the trees are around me, and so I'm driving
maybe like twenty five thirty miles an hour, and I

(28:56):
have my headlights on, and I have my brights on,
and I have drives because I kind of drive like
an old lady. And once in a while behind me,
maybe about a mile or two, I can see Kim's
headlights behind me, and I round around a curve and
in front of me is the road has a slight

(29:16):
incline and before it dips down kind of crests on
a hill, and it's about two hundred two hundred and
fifty feet in front of me. And the cross section
that we're talking about about the road is that down
on my left it goes steep steep down into the
riverbed of the sixs River flat roadbed, and then off

(29:38):
to my rights incredibly steep going back up the hill
to my right. When I round around the corner, up
in front of me maybe about two hundred feet is
this individual that's moving and when my headlights hit it,
it pauses briefly and faces me face on about two
hundred feet and my first thought is, you know, who's

(30:01):
playing in the middle of the road at night. And
it was obviously, you know, it was obviously a bipedal
human like character, arms and legs and head and all that.
And the split second other thought is like, why is
it wearing a fireman's outfit? Because it was big, bulky,

(30:21):
like a firefighter's outfit to actually fight fires. It was
bulky arms, bulky legs, big, There was hardly any neck
going on, you know, around its neck, and that's why
I thought it was somebody wearing a fireman's outfit. Also,
the reason why is because it was sort of beige,
dirty blonde in color.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Bogo will be right back after these messages.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
This individual pauses for a quick second and takes a
step to continue to go uphill. The individual had come
out of the river bed when it had hit the
road coincidentally when I was rounding around, and it pauses
for a second, keeps on going, but before it keeps

(31:16):
on going. It turns and looks back into the woods
from where it had come from. When it did that,
there was a second individual coming from a crouching position
onto the road, and these two just start booking it.
They just are hauling it, and they're so incredibly fast.

(31:36):
But also their movements were like a movement that I
had never seen before. It was, you know, it was
just like a normal like a human jogging in a
runner's fashion with bent arms, and there was running like that,
but it was fast, incredibly fast, jerky movements like it

(31:58):
reminded me of of seeing five year old or six
year olds on the playground in a fast game of chase.
It was that kind of high energy, or like watching
an insect, like a dragonfly take off. It was incredibly
incredibly quick, jerky movements I had at this point. I
had kept on driving, but I was slowing down. Where

(32:20):
they came onto the road, I wasn't exactly sure, But
where they exited the road I was. I was certain
where they exited because I was within fifty feet of
the time. The second individual went up the hill like
in a flash. It was short hair, very short hair,
not as short as like a like a Docson like

(32:41):
or like soci the dog. It wasn't it wasn't that short,
but it was short ish and it was yeah, a yellow,
dirty blonde. And they just banned they could cook. They
just like jump up the hill. It was amazing. Kathy's
screen has a story of her encounter where she described
it almost like this big fat bungee cord jump where

(33:03):
its just buoying and it went up the hill. And
that's the way they were. These two just flew up
the hill practically, and there was no hair around the face,
heavy brow and I almost keep going, but just in
a split I decided to slam it on the brakes,

(33:23):
put the car in park, and I jumped out of
the car, and I'm looking up the hill and the
only sound is my car engine, and I can hear
the river behind me down and down the hill, and
looking up the hill in the dark, I'm going to
estimate that these guys may have been like seventy five

(33:45):
one hundred feet up the hill. But the thing that
totally freaked me out was that I didn't hear anything.
I didn't hear any brush, I didn't hear any crunching,
I didn't hear anything at all, and my brain flight
or fight figured out that whatever I had seen was
probably standing there looking at me, and all of this

(34:08):
heat started raising up my neck and my ears started
getting really hot, and I was getting I was getting
very very disturbed and wigged out, not only by their
movements and what they saw, but I was just assuming
that they were up there, like back right there in
the dark, checking me out too. So Kim Kim comes
up by that point, and I was like, something across

(34:30):
the road, something across the road, and Kim gets all
excited and stuff, and Kim Kim is great. She's really
new to like big footing at the time and very
enthusiastic and everything is bigfoot right, and she's like, oh
my god, and I tell her the whole story and everything.
Bobo at that point had come in and parked behind
Kim and I go up and you're like, Bobo, You're like, so,

(34:55):
what is there an accident? I'm like, uh no, was
there a flat tire? No, something cross the road? And
you were like you saw a squatch And I like,
hold up a couple of fingers and I'm like I
saw two, and you're like, holy crap, and go back
and go to Rowdy's car right behind you and Rowdy

(35:18):
and you're like, tell Rowdy. It's like, yeah, I squatched
us cross the road. And Rowdy was like, you know
who saw it, Kim, and you were like, no, dude,
it was Mark and it was Mark.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
Holy crap.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
And so the good thing is is that we're up
there filming. Rowdy had his camera and it's Mike and
he throws the mic on me and he starts the
camera and he's like, start talking.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
And I was there able.

Speaker 3 (35:45):
To give my whole story, my whole experience, like within
like about four minutes or five minutes after it happened.
And I don't know, I haven't seen the footage yet,
but I know I was just babbling.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
I would I could. I could hardly talk.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
Man, you're not that good of an actor. I mean,
you were blown away. And that was one thing I
was gonna say is that if you were like, if
you were to walk this road and look for crossing points,
like where were stuff like that cross you would not
pick this place. I mean it was like basically cliffs.
It was just almost vertical. It was crazy.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
Yeah, it's incredibly incredibly steep, and so where they had
exited the road. I was certain of where they exited
the road. And it's pretty dark at that point, and
three of us are on the edge of gravel. And
if you were standing on the edge of gravel, and
there's a slight dirt ditch, and then it starts going

(36:40):
up really steeply, just for a few feet up to
this rock escarpment. There's like an exposed hunk of rock
that's like ten or twelve feet tall. And we all
saw it at the same time. The three of us,
Bobo and Kim and I were standing on the edge
of gravel and Rowdy's up there with his camera and
it's really really right light, and he's scanning this rock,

(37:02):
and right at the top of the rock, Rowdy's light
hits it, and we all see it at the same time.
At the top of the rock. There's like detritus and
moss and plants and stuff at the at the top
of this sort of cliff, this small little cliff, and
we all saw it at the same time. Where there
was about a four or five inch fresh scrape right
at the top, right where these two individuals left and

(37:25):
went up the hill. And uh, it was if something
was trying to gain a handhold or a foothold, and
the moss or plants slipped and it was just this
brand new, fresh scrape.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
So yeah, they launched up there like they had to
have such incredible vertical jumping ability because they didn't leave
a lot of evidence like where they were when we
when we went through that, I like it was like
a blind guy could have followed us, you know.

Speaker 4 (37:51):
Yeah, yeah, we went We went back up there the
next day.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, because he's us all go home, which we got
hotels and stayed the night.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Yeah, right, Yeah, So we went back the next day
and it was good because Rowdy got in my car
and Bobo, you were up on the road where I
saw these two individuals, and we kind of recreated it
and were able to get like a scale for how
tall these two were. And like the tallest one, judging

(38:23):
by you, the tallest one may have been like six
and a half seven feet tall. The second one, which
was a little bit shorter, couldn't have been over six
and a half. Maybe it was six feet taller. So
and we scrambled up that hill a little bit where
they had gone up the hill, which was not easy
to do, and found a few impressions. Nothing really castable

(38:45):
or anything like that, because it was like really really steep,
but it looked as if something had been up there,
and you know there was. There was the one thing
about that area, because it's so steep, somebody individual can
be very very close to you when you're on the
road and like within seventy five one hundred feet, but

(39:08):
you wouldn't know it. And it can there. You can
we were up there, you could like have this perfect
view of humans on the road looking down, but the
humans would never know it. There was a strange thing
that happened to us during that trip where something did
cross the road where we heard it. We heard the
footsteps crossing the gravel. This was about a night or

(39:31):
two before. In the middle of the night, some of
us heard this big sort of behind us, this big
brush rush. Something had took taken off headed up the
hill in the brush. And so we went back again
on that on that incident. We went back the next
day and I had climbed up to where all it
was kind of figured where we heard that noise in

(39:53):
the brush, and I found this bench, this small little
bench where I could stand and I could I was
looking at everybody right down on the road. It was
like this perfect vantage point to take to take a
look at us. So anyway, it's incredibly steep, steep, rugged
territory out there, for sure.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
There were several of several of them came around us
that night.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
Yeah, that's for sure.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Kim brought us to that swept to give Kim a
little shout out. And then I was just going to
correct from earlier. Gordon and Sam weren't production assistants. Border
was the sound and Sam was camera.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Oh okay, thanks man, Okay, I didn't know. I'm not a
film guy. You're the TV guy. Hell, I don't know
what a production assistant is.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
What we call him television bobes Hollywood bobo.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
So yeah, I mean when we were down there on
the gravel road, when all of us were down there,
not when I had seen those two individuals. It's like
looking down into that into that lake, into that lake
where where Kim had had encounters years before, and we
can't see the lake, but we know it's down there
in sort of a small valley and on one side

(41:06):
of the lake is a hilly ridge, you know, because
the lake is at the bottom in this valley. On
one side of the lake is have a little bit
of a ridge and on this on the other side
of the lake is another ridge. And it was almost
like there is something, some things down there messing with us,
because on one ridge we could hear a knock and

(41:29):
we all run down the road and we listen and
we listen, and then from the other ridge we could
hear this whoop and we all run over there, and
it was almost like they're just having fun watching us
back and running back and forth, running back and forth
on the on the road.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
We're going black lights out. So because we didn't want
to stay, we were trying to catch them on THRM
and like that's what I was used to kill it
about five big though, was bringing out those TV cameras
with the infrared spotlights on. Like I always figured like
that's just like you such a bitter shot if we
just like I was like, you know, we're not trying
to film us, We're trying to film big fast. I
was always the point when we were in the field

(42:06):
that like at night was not filming us getting our reactions,
but it was us trying to actually get something on
film our best chance. So yeah, that unfortunately, Yah that's
one of the scenes that the audio just did not
come out very well, but it was. It was pretty
amazing to be And Larry was there that night, Larry,
the guy that passed away, Larry was there also, and

(42:27):
he was I mean, this guy's Larry was seventy year old,
just a stud. I mean, he was the fittest guy
there for sure.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
Oh he was man.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah. Yeah. He grew up his whole life out in
southern Oregon northern northern California, like on the border areas
up there. His father was a miner and he grew
up being a logger and a minor. He's you know,
expllert hunter, outdoorsman, tracker, and he was blown away.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
He was also a long distance runner, I found out
from his wife. Yeah, he was a tree faller. I
had gotten a picture from Larry right after that trip.
He sent me a picture and you have this huge
tall tree and god, it must be like, you know,
one hundred feet tall, and there's this little little thing

(43:15):
in the tree and it's Larry and he's up there.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
He's climbing.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
He's climbed this tree to limit and I mean the
guy was just a monster shape.

Speaker 4 (43:23):
He really was. I don't know how old that. Larry
was like seventy something.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Yeah, yeah, he was blown away because you had given
me the therm and you're like, mark, here, hold this
and pointed up the road and get it.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
Get it.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
Went acrosses the road and I stood there for a
long time and I didn't get anything, and so I
turned around. And as soon as I turned around and
started walking, Larry said, that's when he heard three steps
crossing the road right where the term was pointed. But
I had just turned around and started walking down towards
you guys, And that's when he said, across the road
had gone up the hill and was apparently standing up

(44:01):
there watching us in the woods.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Yeah, because they because we heard them coming from down below,
like they're down the noises started down the lake and
it was raining. I mean we went up there like
it was massive storms because that winter was horrible for storms,
Like yeah, my tent, Like I'm still frustrated about that.
Remember when I started up my tent in that storm
and it snapped it like the big pole like in

(44:24):
the top.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
It was awful. It was nerd there, man, I know.

Speaker 3 (44:30):
We get up there the first night and we tried
to build a fire and there was just no way,
so we just climbed in the car and went to sleep.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
It was it was bad.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
It was really windy and it was pouring rain. I mean,
it's Pacific Northwest rainforest.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
You know.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
This is about like ten miles fifteen miles from the coast,
so we're dealing with coastal storms up there, you know,
a lot.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
So it was bad.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
We'll be right back after these messages.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
This is this is why, this is why the Thompson
Flat Monster project is not done. But that that thing
that happened to us went across the road behind us,
behind me. It really opened up like a new project
for me down there, because when we went back the
next day in the daytime, Browdie was checking out the

(45:26):
aerial photos on his phone and he's like, look, look, look,
so if you if you are at the lake and
you're sort of headed easterly, you get to that road
where we were standing, and you keep on going east
headed up the hill, and you end up on this
ridge line, this ridge line that runs north and south

(45:48):
with no roads, no nothing, and this ridge line that
runs north and south on the north end of the ridge.
That's where we were camped and that's where all the
Thompson flat Act toy happened. But if you follow that
ridge line headed south for about two or three miles
or so, bam when it crosses when it crosses the road,

(46:10):
that's where I had my sighting with the two individuals.
So I'm tending to think that this wooded ridge, which
is quite massive and dense and really really rugged, I
think that's their highway. I think that's where they're hanging
out up above, you know, looking down. So it really
got me going where I'm going to be headed back
down there and see if I can plow my way

(46:32):
through the woods and hang out there a lot more,
because it made what Routy showed me suddenly made a
whole heck of a lot of sense, you know.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
I So to add back to your sighting, was when
the two cross the road, you got this was your impression,
I remember you saying, because we got your on camera
saying it was that it looked like a big brother
and a little brother, Like how I feel like they'll
run into each other and like kind of push each other.
And then you got that kind of impression absolutely.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
You know, it was a big brother little brother, male
and female something like that, because there were two individuals,
one smaller than the other, and just by their shall
I say behavior, they were obviously together as some sort

(47:19):
of unit. Because the first one saw me, saw my headlights, stopped,
turned and paused briefly, while the second individual came up
and joined it, and they were both both hauling it together.
You know, they were like you and I running a marathon.
It's like they were basically shoulder to shoulder pretty much.

(47:40):
So because of that behavior, it was almost like the
first one was looking out for the second one and
ensuring that it was going to join them where they
could exit the road together in some sort of social
dynamic in a way.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
What's the story with the project? I mean, I'm sure
everybody would want to know about this, everybody would like
to see it. Is there any news on any progress
with this documentary being released?

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Well, we went. I went when I was up at
your place. When I went up there with the whole
trailer deal, I was went over to Flippies And this
is the craziest part. Flippy Salm and I all have
hard drive copies of we recaught, We copied and recopied things,
like we had multiple We had like five hard drives

(48:27):
with the footage on them. And the craziest thing is
like it just like it disappeared, like certain segments disappeared
on on all the hard drives. Like we just were
like it was just nuts and then it wasn't like
like tons of it, but there was like certain key
points and then there was other parts where the audio

(48:52):
was really bad or like the camera. Well. The big
problem too, is that we had guys we had three
or four editors working on all different platforms like app
like you know, Apple and PC and one guy's using Adobe,
the guys using Renaissance, you know, and that seemed to

(49:13):
like cause a lot of a lot of issues. So
we had to go back through and then there was
partsy missing because I ended up going up there like
five times total, you did. Yeah, we're trying to get stuff.
We had to reshoot some stuff, and now we got
to reshoot more stuff. And that was that was the
problem with that whole thing. Was like when those the
pandemics hit, like the like all those officers were closed.

(49:34):
You couldn't go in, like we needed to shoot stuff.
With the Forest Service because like I went through like
a I mean, I was really trying to get this
thing together. They wouldn't give any permits because of COVID.
Like we're out in the middle of the woods, they're
not going to give us permits. And then uh, as people,
I'm sure our listeners are well aware, prices on everything
went up like double so the budget got eaten up

(49:55):
real quick, like uh, you know, just fuel, and I
spent over like geese, like thirteen grand on it. Like
with everything said and done, and it's totally salvageable. And
there's been a couple of things income generating things I
had on in the on the skillet, and there's one
that's that's cooking right now and I'm not sure what

(50:16):
it's coming through, but I'm hoping not too far into
the summer. It's looking more like juneish is as you
can get paid out on that hopefully.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
So does it come down to money? And basically is
at it just like you need time and money to
go reshoot a bunch of stuff that that was lost
or corrupted.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, and stuff we didn't even lost some
stuff we have. It's just that the sound is so
like like this sound this sounds everything, you know, like
in a lot of like those not everything, but it's
it's a big factor. We just it's such a bitch
and story and marks such a great character like we
went up and filled with those family. I mean, it's
it's the bones of it are awesome. I mean, like

(50:55):
just you've heard what's going on. Just what you heard
today like gives you a good look at it. And
it was my first I'm doing stuff like this, so
obviously I've made a bunch of mistakes. Goes without saying,
but yeah, I mean it's it's we got we got
the bones there. I got to say it. It's a
lot more difficult to put a film together than it
would seem.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
Yeah that's true. But yeah, I mean, I mean, you know,
you explained a lot to me because I was ready
to like buy the project for it from you.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
It's like, God, let's get this thing done.

Speaker 3 (51:28):
But it sounds like, you know, you're in the middle
of like ironing out like a lot of wrinkles too,
Like you said, you know, stuff on different platforms and
dealing with you know, dealing with recreating audio or you
know that that kind of stuff.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
But you're right.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
I mean, it wasn't. It wasn't like my first film project.
But you know, I had had a little bit of experience,
but you've had a lot more experience than I have.
But I got to say, the stuff that we shot
up there was just incredible. It's a great, great story,
it's a great project. But some of the stuff that
that I know that was shot, it's just amazing. It's

(52:05):
putting it all together. It's gonna be great.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
Yeah, it's it's gonna come together. It's gonna be it's
gonna be awesome. But yeah, I was hoping someone with
big bucks that wants to go out and have fun
and go out to like a real squatchy spot might
want to, like, you know, just throw in on it
to get it, get it finished up, and have a
good time hanging out with me, Mark and finish up.
We need to finish up.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
Attention potential sugar daddies.

Speaker 3 (52:30):
Pretty much or sugar mama's. Yeah, well, hell I'll be.
I'll be the sugar daddy if I can afford it. Man,
just tell me what you need and I'll chip in.
I mean, i'll be I'll be the second executive producer.
If we need to because it's like such a good
story and honestly just going up there again and to

(52:52):
you know, reshoot whatever we need to reshoot. I need
to go up there anyway to continue on the project,
you know, the Thompson Flat historical stuff. I need to
go up there anyway. And the area is just gorgeous.
I mean, the area is really really beautiful up there
at the very top where we're camping and you have
to go down into the into the river of the

(53:15):
South Fork of the Sixes. This place had never been
I know, that area had never been logged because it's
just too damn steep. You're going basically straight down for
about a mile and a half and with no like
switchbacks or anything in this huge area of old growth.
It's just gorgeous out there. It's amazing. And you get
down to the bottom and you're you're in You're in

(53:36):
living history. You're in living history of the of the
eighteen eighties and eighteen nineties of these guys with apparently
mules or something, took down these massive hunks of metal
to deal with the hydraul hydraulogy hydraulics projects for their
plaster mines and stuff. There's a couple of old cabins
from the eighteen nineties down there. It's it's it's a

(53:57):
gorgeous place. I'm in love with it. I could I
could live down there.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
It's great.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
It's it is beautiful. Yeah, it's it's rugged, man like.
Going in and out of that place is brutal. It's
a it's quite a high. It gives you social respect
for those I mean I already had it, but just
you know those miners early in Timber guys, what they
dealt with is like, oh my god, they packed all
because you see these old you know, mining pieces of
like this all came in by wheelbarrow and donkeys and

(54:24):
mules and horses, you know, and people.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Yeah, and these these individual items, even if you're able
to for all the hydraulics and stuff, even if you're
able to unbolt them, I wouldn't be able to pick
them up. I mean these are massive cast iron man
huge hunts of stuff. It's amazing the development that they
put into this place for mining in the eighteen eighties

(54:47):
and eighteen nineties. And then when these four guys you know,
shut up dead and there are a lot of people
are having really aggressive encounters with these sasquatchs tearing up
their camps and everything. I forget it, you know, it's
just like Ape Canyon, like, forget it, We're out of here,
and it never took off again. The gold, the gold operation,

(55:08):
they just abandoned at all.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Yeah, in each one of those circumstances, they left a
small fortune behind, whether it's a producing gold mine as
an Ape Canyon, or this massive amount of infrastructure down below,
because you know, steel's not cheap, you know, for anybody,
you know, and putting that much effort in time, that's
a small fortune.

Speaker 4 (55:26):
For these people. That's right.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
Everything about this is fascinating just because it's it lives
in the shadow of the Ape Canyon events, but it's
still equally weird and spooky, and there's bigfoots and cabins
and mines and all that sort of stuff involved. I
think it's of interest that all the early reports that
Mark mentioned earlier, the animals were a blondish color, and
sure enough, that's the color of the animals that Mark saw,

(55:48):
So there might you might be looking at the same
gene pool just one hundred years later.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
We got three people in the last twenty years that
have seen blondish gold ones there, you know, within a
five mile radius.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
Also, it's true because right after we left, maybe about
two well it was in springtime. If I remember, Kim
had been talking. Kim Christensen had been talking with a
friend and her friend had been up there around the
Elk River on the other side of Thompson Flat and
saw an individual And with that, Kim said, without any prompting,

(56:21):
her friend said exactly that, Yeah, it was sort of
yellow blonde. So we're talking about a regional variant, if
you will, that's kind of limited to that, to that
area that keeps all the reports keep coming back yellow blonde.

Speaker 4 (56:35):
It's interesting.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Well, we have a lot more conversation to do. Let's
move over to the members section. But before we do,
I just want to remind everybody that squatch Fest is
coming up. Matt pro is going to be speaking. I'm
going to be speaking, and of course, Mark, you're going
to be there, right or you're not speaking this year,
are you?

Speaker 4 (56:49):
No, I'm not I'm not speaking this year.

Speaker 3 (56:51):
But yeah, I am planning to be there. Our good
friend Eli from Small Town Monsters has some business to
do there, so we're all planning. Not Matt's going to
be there. You're going to be there, so we're all
planning to meet there and kel so.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
Oh fantastic. Well, I look forward to seeing you in
person once again always yep. All right, Bob, but why
don't you pull us out of this one and we'll
go jump into the members episode for those folks, And
if you want to be a member again, hit that
on the link down of the show notes. It's five
bucks a month. You get this episode, regular sort of episodes,
completely commercial free, and of course you get an extra
about an hour content every single week.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
All right, Mark, thanks so much for joining us. Thank
you listeners for joining us. We're gonna continue this over
with the Patreon section for the members. Yeah, so Mark Bursel,
the great Mark Burcell here thanks to a lot. Mark
takes fun to know one. Thanks Bobs Man. Now, welcome
back every week. I love you guys, all right, so
hopefully we have some good news with you on the

(57:50):
updates for the movie this summer. All right, So all right, folks,
you know to do it until next week. Keep it squatchy.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you
get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram
at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on
Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,

(58:22):
and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag
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