Ep. 304 - Daniel Perez: Bigfoot at Bluff Creek!

Cliff Barackman and James "Bobo" Fay welcome researcher and author Daniel Perez back to the podcast to discuss his latest work, "Bigfoot at Bluff Creek: A Pictorial Discussion!"

Order Daniel's book here: https://www.bigfoottimes.net/product/bigfoot-at-bluff-creek-book/

Start your free online visit with Hims today at http://hims.com/beyond

Sign up for our weekly bonus podcast "Beyond Bigfoot & Beyond" and ad-free episodes here: https://www.patreon.com/bigfootandbeyondpodcast

Get official "Bigfoot & Beyond with Cliff & Bobo" merchandise here: https://sasquatchprints.com/bigfoot-and-beyond-merch/

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bubo. These guys
are your favorites, so like to subscribe and rade it
live star.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
And listening watching lim always keep its watching.

Speaker 3 (00:26):
And now you're hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bubo Fay.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hey, Bobes, what's happening man?

Speaker 4 (00:33):
I just saw you you sent me a wood file.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
I did.

Speaker 4 (00:37):
Yeah, I didn't listen.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
I just I just saw It's that's a side thing. Yeah,
I sent that to you last night because, as everybody knows,
we supply our museum members with two documentaries that we
film in the shop every single month. And I'm finally
getting around to making a short film, I guess documentary
on the sighting that happened at Sandy Ridge Trailhead last January,
like a year ago, over a year ago now, where

(01:00):
Matt and Emily Prout were there. Matt you remember that,
of course, right, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04):
So I'm finally piecing that together into a short little
thing for the members. But you know, I was there
on Sunday. I was there on Monday and Tuesday, I think,
and then also on Thursday or Friday, I can't remember which.
I was there like three or four days that next week,
trying to get as much information as possibly before the
weather took the tracks out of the ground. And so
I'm gonna have to make several This is gonna be

(01:26):
part one for the members. I'm gonna do a part
two as well with everything else. But as I was
going through the footage, I remembered this, but I forgot
how good it was. Keith and I went back on
Monday together to go cast some more prints and try
to backtrack the animal to where it came from. And
luckily we had the camera running, and luckily the camera
and microphone was pointed to the right direction in the

(01:48):
middle of the day, like we're talking to one another,
and all of a sudden, woo. I was like, oh
my gosh. And that was At first I thought it
was a human because it was so close and clear.
But we saw one bicyclist that entire day.

Speaker 4 (02:00):
It's a great one.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, it's not bad. It's not bad, not bad at all. Yeah,
maybe we can put that on the members section or
something like that. Brude, I send it to you too,
I think, right, absolutely, so, yeah I can post that
for the members. Yeah, yeah, I think they probably enjoyed that.
Probably enjoy that. But well, you know enough about us though,
because we have a fantastic guest on the line today.
Our good friend Daniel Prez is joining us and he
has a brand new book out and it's just great.

(02:24):
I've read the entire thing. It is called Bigfoot at
Bluff Creek, a Pictorial Discussion, and it was just released
in twenty twenty five, so it's hot off the presses,
and I'd say, if you're at all interested in the
PG film, this is a must tap. There's a lot
of new information in there. Daniel, thank you so much
for coming on Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo
and Match and looking forward to discussing your book with you.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Well, I wanted to ask you just in general, sing
the photos and sing the text, and sing the quality
of the production itself as a book. What were your
initial impressions.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
I like it. It's a very digestible size. All the
photographs for glossy and in color. It is much like
your newsletter. It's easy to digest as far as writing
style goes. I was, of course, being the Bigfoot history
nerd that I am, I was most taken back in
a good way by all the full color pictures, some

(03:19):
of which span both pages as you open it up,
which you know a good and bad actually, because I
think you commented recently somewhere that some people were saying
that people's face were split in the middle or whatever,
and you might fix that for the second printing or
change that for the second printing. But a lot, a
lot of these photographs I've never seen before, and they're
just absolutely fantastic, just really really cool stuff, all featured

(03:39):
around everybody's favorite big Foot film.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah. So, as I was on another interview on Coast
to Coast and I told the host, George Norri, I said,
part of the motivation for having those photos in there
that have never seen daylight ever, it's kind of like
the cultural icon of Marilyn Monroe, who most people are
familiar with, is that millions of people have seen her photo,

(04:05):
and then when you get that new photo that no
one has ever seen, people want to see it to
say like, oh, I've never seen that photo of Marilyn Monroe.
And also the photos that you see in the book
of the Patterson Gimlin film site, it's kind of like
you have a one perspective when you're seeing what Roger

(04:26):
film on that faithful day, and then with the photos
that George Haws took, it's almost like being able to
see around the corner. And so that gives you the
beauty of the book.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, and the insight in these historic events. And again
I'm assuming that most of our listeners are probably students
of the film, you know, And of course we have
a lot of listeners and a lot of people probably
aren't as well. So I'll do a little bit of
background in the scaffolding as we teach our educational fooks say,
But I think many, if not most, of our listeners
are aware that John Green went back to the the

(05:00):
following June in nineteen sixty eight. The film, of course,
was in October nineteen sixty seven, and John Green went
to the film site in nineteen sixty eight with Jim
McLaren and everybody knows that because it was written up
in numerous books and whatnot. But I had no idea
of the entrage that was there. I didn't even know
George Haas was there really until I read your book.

(05:21):
And of course George Haas deserves to be on the
Mount rushmore of bigfooters. As far as I'm concerned. He's
one of the most prolific data gatherers and archivists to
ever live. And these photographs came into your position because
you have the Bay Area Group's collection, of course, and
just to see behind the screen, you know, behind that

(05:41):
actual day, you know, with these photographs and stuff is
just fantastic and all these I'm a student of the film.
I'm a big Foot nerd through and through, and even
I picked up a bunch of stuff I did not
know about the film from this book.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, And so that's that's why I wanted to put
it out, because I believe that because the PG film,
it's such an iconic piece of American culture. I mean,
there's probably not a school kid who if you showed
them quote unquote frame three point fifty two from the
movie film, who would not be able to recognize what

(06:13):
it is.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Absolutely, It's commonly compared to the Subruder film, of course,
with the Kennedy assassination, and for good reason, same time period,
same same film stock, I believe, and it's a unique
film in almost every way. So you you published a pamphlet,
I guess is that the would you would you agree

(06:35):
with that a booklet yeah, back in what year was
that It was the nineties at some point in nineteen.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Ninety four, and then I republished it with a bibliography
in two thousand and three, and believe it or not,
about ten years ago I put one of them on eBay,
and I believe it's sold for one hundred and fifty
seven dollar and it's a twenty three page booklet.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
I'm assuming it's had a print or did the person
just wasn't aware that they could call you and get one.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
It was I think ten years ago I still had
some copies, but I said, well, let's put one on
eBay and see what happens. And as a matter of record,
because making money is making money, and it's just like,
as long as you know this is America, I put
a copy of this new book, Bigfoot at Bluff Creek,

(07:30):
a pictorial history discussion, on eBay over the weekend last weekend,
and it sold this weekend Sunday. I sold the first
copy was over one hundred dollars, and the second copy
was a second chance offer on eBay and they coughed
up over one hundred dollars as well. And so that's

(07:51):
just the marketplace. And I said, well, there's nothing wrong
with making money. It just I put it on there,
and these people been on it, and that's what we
ended up with. And so I'm telling the people that
have the first edition that it's worth more than what
you paid for it. And the people who got review issues,

(08:12):
they didn't pay a dime, and they have a super
limited edition.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
And of course that superlimited edition comes with a little
tiny pinch, like a maybe slightly less than a cubic
centimeter of Luff Creek sand?

Speaker 4 (08:24):
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yes, that's correct. And so this, to my knowledge, because
I have the lion's share of all the big footbooks
ever published, it's the only big Foot book that I
know of that literally has the dirt in it. And
it's such a unique thing. And right there is where
the value is going to come in as the years
go by. I mean, back in the day, in nineteen

(08:48):
sixty six, you could pick up a copy of Roger
Patterson's book Do Abominable Snowmen in America? Really Exists? For
like two dollars and ninety five cents? Who knew that,
like in twenty twenty five, a hardback or a paperback,
you'd be paying an excess of two hundred dollars for
that call.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Well, let's get back to the book and the process
that it came about. But I'd like to start with
your booklet, because I mean, i've know what that You've
been on the podcast before, and certainly we probably talked
about the booklet. I don't remember personally, but I see
this bigfoot of Bluff Creek, a pictorial discussion that we're
talking about today standing on the shoulders. I guess of

(09:27):
your booklet, I was expecting to see most, if not all,
of the information kind of revamped and recycled in this
particular book and added upon, And there was definitely some
of it. Don't get me wrong. You build a nice
foundation when you did the Patrol Discussion book, but some
of the stuff didn't make it really, So I kind
of see them as companion books in a way. How

(09:47):
did the first booklet come about? And then how did
that lead to the current edition of the Patrol Discussion.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Well, at the time I was in touch in the
early nineties, I was in touch almost weekly with Renee
to Hindon and John Green, and then in ninety two
I knew the twenty fifth anniversary of the film was
coming up, which would be October nineteen ninety two, and
late in nineteen ninety one, I got in touch with

(10:16):
these people, to Hinden and Green, and I said what
I wanted to do about doing a booklet, and they
cooperated with telephone interviews, long distance telephone interviews because the
world was different then and so your bill was quite
a bit. So then I guess in the Bigfoot community
at the time, the word got around and I was

(10:37):
able to interview as well Groover, Krantz, Bob titmas Lyle Laberty,
and so that all went into Bigfoot at Bluff Creek
because I felt that the film was deserving of something
on the twenty fifth anniversary, and so that was the
creation of it, because I had the cooperation of these individuals.

(10:57):
And by the early nineteen nineties, I think I had
known Green and to Hindon and Krantz at least twenty
years since the late seventies. And at the time I
wasn't really in touch with Peter Burns, so I really
didn't reach out to him for anything, but he did
eventually buy a copy of the booklet, and it's twenty
three pages long, and so when we start in the

(11:19):
new book, Bigfoot at Bluff Creek a pictorial discussion. It
starts off with the discussion of the original black booklet
Bigfoot at Bluff Creek. So that was the foundation to
do this second book. And I know I'm jumping all
over the place, but hopefully the listeners who are listening
to the podcast will kind of the names will kind

(11:41):
of gel as they go along. Is that when George Hass,
the Bigfooter from the Bay Area Group in California, passed on,
he turned all of his files over to Warren Thompson.
And then when Warren Thompson eventually passed away from Alzheimer's disease,
I think around twenty thirteen or thereabout that, I came

(12:01):
in possession of all his file and I already knew
what some of the stuff was in there because he
had shared with me those photos, at least black and
white photo copies, and so I knew that stuff was
in there, and so that was one of the first
things I went for, is looking for those slides. And
you were over at the house when I came in

(12:23):
receipt of all this stuff, and it occupied at least
three rooms. There was tons of stuff everywhere, and I
had to consolidate. But then as I got those slides
because I wanted to personally look at them from the
PG film site that George Hass took in June of
sixty eight, the wheels in my brain started turning and

(12:43):
I said, this could be something big in terms of
a book, and so that's why I started the project.
And you got to remember, that's way back in twenty thirteen,
twenty fourteen, and now it's twenty twenty five. So this
thing was swirling in my head for quite a while
about doing something like that, and so in January twenty

(13:06):
twenty five, boom, it's out there. And the people who
got review copies, I think there was nineteen or something
of you, I sent them out and that was the
first sign that the book has done.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
And here it is today, excellent. Stay tuned for more
Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo will be right
back after these messages.

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Speaker 1 (15:14):
And so far the reception imagine some pretty good right well.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
The February edition of the newsletter was just issued, and
I'll tell you Joe Beelart, just some of the words stunning,
Michael beershad, You've outdone yourself. Your book is an instant
Bigfoot classic. Lauren Coleman excellent, Dustin Steevers, You've knocked it
out of the park. And Wardo Lopez from Southern California,

(15:40):
seminal work of the highest order. Congratulations on this masterpiece.
Thomas Potter from the Middle California. A phenomenal new release.
Steven Scruffort, don't let the subtitle trick you. The text
in this books is as good as rich as the
treasures as the photos, done in the usual meticulous style

(16:01):
by which we know. Daniel Perez, David Murphy, from southern California.
I can already tell that it's going to be in
the top ten all time Bigfoot books. So I'm very
pleased by the reception thus far. Praise yeah from all
these people. So yeah. And so as I was writing

(16:23):
in the newsletter for the people who get the newsletter,
the Bigfoot Times, I was telling them, as I was
going through the process and getting the book done, because
it's self published, I said, you could kind of think
of this new one as the old booklet Bigfoot at
Bluff Creek on Steroids, And so that's essentially I said.
I wanted to put it out there so when people

(16:45):
get it, that jaws drop, and I think in a
metaphorical way that maybe that has happened.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
A lot of this is, of course, about the film
and the history of it, all that sort of stuff,
but I'm very interested in the film site itself and
of things. Since I have we have you on the
line and you are considered to be one of the
experts on the film and the footage and everything that
happened around it, I'd like to walk through the actual
film site visitors that are of historic importance, perhaps between

(17:18):
the day that they got the footage and then when
John Green and Haas and all those guys went the
following June. How many people do we know we're at
the film site between the footage and John Green's visit.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Let's start from the beginning. First, you've got Roger and
Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin obviously and Patty. After that
they depart, the next personnel, the next person a group
of people. According to Lyle Laberty, he was there on Monday,
October twenty third, so the weekend and gone by, and

(17:54):
they were out of the area. They came back in
to work as he was a timber management assistant in
terms of what trees were going to be chopped down
in that area. And when I interviewed him initially in
ninety two and later in twenty seventeen, he said there
were about three or four of us in addition to him,
and those people have yet to be identified. But Lyle

(18:18):
did have a camera, a thirty five milimeter camera, and
he took slides. So by October twenty third, you could add,
let's just say, for four people in addition to Lyle,
so there's another five people looking at the tracks. And
then later that month Bob Titmus arrives because he had
met Roger and Bob in Canada, in British Columbia at

(18:41):
the Press and Scientific showing, and he was so impressed
with everything that he flew down to northern California to
investigate personally, and we had a little bit of myself
and Todd Prescott from Canada locked horns a little bit
because as he insisted that he drove down and that

(19:04):
is not true. He flew down probably to reading, and
from reading, he probably rented a car, because he said
something to the effect in John Green's book that he
was on the two ninety nine So if you're on
the two ninety nine ties into Redding, and he said
a town that he was going through, so that would

(19:24):
indicate that he's probably going west, heading towards the film site.
So he flew from probably Vancouver, British Columbia, flew down
directly to reading. From reading, rented the car, drove up,
did his work, and then flew back home.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
And he was there ten days later, so that would
put him on October thirtieth, although his own writing on
the back of the original cast that he obtained at
the site say October thirty first, would you agree that
he was probably there on the thirtieth.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
So according to Bob Titmas that his sister came up
to look at the tracks as well with her husband,
and this was discussed in the original Bigfoot at Fluff Creek.
So let's just say at the end of October Bob
tit missed his brother in law. His brother in law
I think his name was Harry Halbritter, and he said

(20:19):
he was two hundred pounds plus. And Harry came up
because he was a hard headed disbeliever in Bigfoot, and
Bob let him see the tracks they were all together,
and he said something to the fact that he was
kind of shaken because he could come nowhere near the
depths of the tracks that were all not sandbar So

(20:41):
by the end of October, October thirty was Bob Titmoss
plus two other people. October twenty third Lyle Laberty plus
maybe three or four other people. By November fifth Jim
McLaren and two other people. One of them is Richard
Henry and the other person was a I guess the

(21:02):
Eureka radio broadcaster who I think was the person who
kind of instigated this trip. So by November fifth, three
other people and Jim McLaren was there and that's when
they did, believe it or not, the first recreation film
using Jim as the subject of Patty walking in the

(21:23):
same pathway. And Jim indicated that he sent that film
to John Green or possibly Lauren Coleman. But from there
it gets lost the film, and I think that was
John Green's inspiration to come back in June of sixty
eight to do his own recreation film using Jim McLaren.
But stop right there, go back in time from November fifth,

(21:49):
nineteen sixty seven, back up a little bit. There's another
individual by the name of Terry Albright. He's not in
this book, or nor was he in the first booklet
Bigfoot Luff Creek, but he was a colleague of Peter Gatilla,
and he told me by phone because I spoke with
him when he was living here in southern California, and

(22:10):
I put some of it in the newsletter The Bigfoot Times.
But Terry Albright said he was just a kid, teenager
and somehow he found out about it, and I guess
maybe he was up there at the time and he
told one of his relatives for his birthday present or something.
He wanted to go to the Patterson Gimland film site,

(22:31):
and he said that he did, and he said that
I want to say that. He said that he slept
there with his relatives on the film site that night,
and I think they said rocks were thrown and you
could hear maybe not screaming, but sounds.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, we Bobo and I actually interviewed him while we
filmed Finding Bigfoot at the site. He was out there
with us.

Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yes, I think I may have got the lead, the
initial lead, from you, But when I spoke with him,
I thought it was so fantastic that I didn't know
what to make of it. I said, maybe, maybe not.
And the reason I say maybe because I know that
Terry Albright was in the big Foot for quite a bit.
So you could take all those people that I've just

(23:19):
discussed being on the film site all through November, from
October twentieth to November fifth of sixty seven, who had
seen the tracks and seen the film site, and Terry
said that he took photos. But to this day, I
have yet to see any of the photos. But that's
what he says. That was the first and only phone

(23:40):
call to Terry Albright. So I scratched my head, and
I'm not entirely certain what to make of his testimony.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
If I remember right, he wasn't even living in the state.
I think he was living out in the Midwest somewhere
and heard about it and borrowed his mom's station wagon.
It was a long time ago we were there, of course,
my memory is a little foggy on that.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
Yeah, but there were quite a few people there, and
those are the people that we know about. And at
the time, the film site wasn't I mean, it wasn't
published in the newsletter in the newspaper as to here's
how to get to the Patterson's film site. It was
kind of like just a few people knew about it.
There was no social media, so it was kind of

(24:21):
a hit and miss type of thing.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
Yeah, it would have been astonishingly difficult to get to
and find let alone. I mean, I know there was
a road there at the time and stuff, but just
the same it would be I couldn't even imagine I
know that titmas. I believe at some point, maybe he
was in Krantz's book or I forget where I read it,
but I believe Titmus said that he walked like twenty
miles or before he found it.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah, he said on his first full day out there
that he walked up Bluff Creek and he missed the
tracks completely and it was on the second day that
he found them. So if he's there, if he made
the castings on the thirty first, so the day before
that he probably saw everything and was assessing everything on
the thirtieth, and the day before on the twenty ninth,

(25:07):
he probably missed the tracks completely because he was probably
in the creek just paying attention to what's there and
just kind of one of those things where he just
completely missed them. But obviously he did find them because
he made I think about ten consecutive poster of Paris
castings of Patty and so that I mean that by

(25:29):
itself put him in the legendary status as a bigfooter,
that one single feat and we owe a lot of
our knowledge about Bigfoot and the anatomical details of the
foot because of Bob Titmas making those castings. And you've
got to remember at the time in sixty seven and

(25:49):
even to his dying day in ninety seven, is that
he wasn't a wealthy man by any means. So for
him to fly down from British Columbia to northern California,
that must have been a very serious matter.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, And you know, I'm looking at a photograph that
I took myself of one of the original Tipmos casts,
and on the back it has the date and it
says October thirty first, nineteen sixty seven, and it says
Bluff Creek del North County, one of the Bigfoot tracks.
Blah blah blah from Margaret Patterson casts taken ten days
later by Bob Titmas and by my math ten days
later be October thirtieth. And it makes sense, I guess

(26:28):
because he had to pull those casts. I don't don't know,
but I'm assuming he walked to the site, even though
you could drive, I guess to the site at the time,
it would have been quite the feat. I mean, I've
had to do this several times, but I've never had
to take ten frail thin you know, eggshell casts miles
and miles and miles back to my vehicle. I'm assuming

(26:49):
he probably drove his vehicle up there to make it
easier to transport the footprint cast. After he did so,
and then probably wrote on the back on October thirty first,
hence the day the thirty first, because it seems to
me he was probably casting on the thirtieth.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
That may well be so. And because I had direct
access to Bob, I've met him several times, talk with
him on the phone, so he was a colleague. And
for the people who are listening, I'm sixty one years old,
so you could kind of do the math from there.
And so he was an incredible, no nonsense bigfooter. And

(27:25):
he explained to me he didn't have enough flaster, so
he had to thin everything out, and so that's why
you see some of the castings are not really that thick.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, he reinforced them with toilet paper, it turns out, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
But that's not too much of a reinforcement using toilet
paper to reinforce them. And one thing that came out
at the grand opening of the Willow Creek Bigfoot Museum,
John Green and his wife June were there along with
Gertie Hougendors, I think that's her name. She's probably passed

(27:58):
on too, but he said that Bob Titmus gave one
of the castings to a lady friend of his and
so you could think of like, okay, he made ten
consecutive castings, but maybe he made eleven and one is
out there to a lady friend who may have eventually
used that casting as a doorstop, and eventually when she

(28:20):
passed away, it probably went in the trash can.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Well you know, that's something I was going to bring up,
is that there is a cast in the data set
that is clearly the Patterson Gimlin film subject, and no
one knows where it came from. No one knows where
it came from. And I've often wondered, okay, well it
did Jim McLaren cast one when he was there?

Speaker 2 (28:41):
No, no, no, no admission to that. And so but
John Green made that admission to me. I think that
was May of two thousand and I was just astonished
because he said that to me in kind of like
in passing, not as a bold statement, just kind of
a passing remark. And I picked up on that and
I said, that is incredible, And so that may be

(29:05):
that cast.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
That's interesting, Yeah, because I've spoken to Meldrum about it,
and there's a little bit of documentation that goes with it,
and I'm kind of tracking that down a little bit.
It came from the documentation, came from Cliff Crook, and
you know, he was bigfooting for a long time. And
I know there's some dubious pictures associated with him, but
he was all over the place. He shouldn't be so
quickly written off as far as his files go. In

(29:29):
my opinion, I think he was a very valuable historical
resource even today. Chris Lindsley Lindley was brought up with it,
and I've got a line on Chris now. And so
I'm trying to get to the bottom of where this
cast came from, because it's clearly is a Patterson Gimlin
film subject.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
So yeah, so it may have been belonged to a
lady friend of Bob Titmus who came in possession of it,
and it may be from that film site, because I
think I wrote I may have written that up in
the Bigfoot Times, because a lot of the things in
the Bigfoot Times it's just like you see, like, well
where did that come from? And so me as a reporter,

(30:07):
I pick up on all these things and it says,
you know, I said, well that's new, because I've seen
all the literature, and I write it down, and I said,
we got to put that out there in the newsletter
to make it valuable to other people.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Yeah, and you know, it's interesting that a couple of
years ago now, doctor Meldrum emailed me with a photograph
from for a service person who said that they took
a picture of a footprint in the ground in nineteen
sixty eight, I believe. And it was a beautiful picture,
and of course it was also very obviously the Patterson
Giblin film creature, which I thought was fascinating because to

(30:42):
my knowledge at that time, especially and even today. And
I'll get back to that in a minute. Once once
the film was taken, her footprints were not really found
it again in the area, you know, so she's kind
of like went silent for a while. The thing is,
when I Jeff said it to me, and I was
looking at it, and I go, that's definitely the Patterson
give One film creature. That's really interesting. And I started

(31:02):
looking and it turns out that the guy was incorrect.
It is a photograph of one of the one of
the impressions that Lyle Laberty took. But somebody else apparently
had a picture of one. Oh okay, Yeah, so, and
I pointed out to Jeff and I go, hey, well
look you see the raw and he goes, oh, yeah,
one hundred percent. I don't know why I didn't notice that,
or you know, something like that to that effect. And
he brought it back to the gentleman. He goes, oh, no,

(31:24):
it was nineteen sixty eight. If I think, if I think,
if I think I have the correspondence more or less
correct on that one, I believe the guy says, so
I thought it was sixty eight. I'm pretty sure it was,
but it was clearly one of the impressions that Laberty
took a photograph of. But apparently somebody else took photographs
as well.

Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah, because I think Lyle Laborty by his own admission,
I think it's in the original booklet Bigfoot at Fluff Creek.
I think he admitted to taking about six photos of
the track way. And so one thing that because there's
always a new audience and that people don't understand back
on that era that you had to develop film and

(32:02):
it costs money. And so in the digital age, we
take one hundred photos of just our cat in one day,
and back then you had to be a lot selective
because you're paying for the film, to buy the film,
and then to have it processed. So it was a
different world back then. So and Lyle was a young individual,

(32:23):
I guess married and so and had his expenses. So
you think twice as to how many photos you take
regardless of the circumstance.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
We'll be right back after these messages. I'm always banging
the drum on this podcast to continually look at cold
cases because I'm finding in my own research that whenever
you scratch the surface on any of these cases that

(32:56):
some of the late greats have investigated, assume, since we're
standing on their shoulders, like, oh, they would have they
would have gotten everything out of the Bossburg situation or
the Patterson Gibln film and there's nothing else to learn.
But that's I find out to be incorrect time and
time and time again.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Well, just look at my new book as to how
much new information has come out just in it not
by itself, makes this book extremely relevant, not just from
the text point of view and the writing, but also
from the photos. I don't mean to be biased, but
I think Bigfoot at Bluff Creek at pictorial discussion with

(33:34):
the full color photos and everything. This is all brand new,
even though it was some of these photos are very old.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
So digging through the files that you have, you know,
the Bay Area Group's files, what were some of the
big discoveries about the PG film that really blew your mind?
Because you've had a very rock solid understanding of the
history and the circumstances of the PG film better than
most people for a very long time. But some of

(34:02):
this stuff that blew your mind from an I understand,
So tell us about some of those those moments.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
Make clarify they're no longer the Bay Area Group's files,
their property of Daniel Perez, Oh right, right.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
But they are the barrier. And I mean I own
several people's historical files and I always refer to them
as the Wasson files because that's where they come from.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah, it's just the incredible documentation that they were able
to do because on a case like the PG film,
that what they did in June of sixty eight, it's
just I mean, George hass was forward thinking because he
wanted to go on this trip, and I guess he
was invited by John Green, So that was the first

(34:44):
and only time he's ever been up into that area
to the best of my knowledge, and so for him
to take those photos, I mean, John is doing his
thing with Jim McLaren on the film site in June
of sixty eight, and George hass is just there as
the reporter photo documenting all of this, and it's just stunning.

(35:06):
I think. The first thing that when I started digging
through the file and I published it in the newsletter
was the first part of the book where George has
his written account of being there on the film site
with all these people in June of sixty eight, and
so that is in the book, and I thought he
never published that in his own newsletter, the Bigfoot Bulletin,

(35:30):
or the photos the slides that he took of the
film site. And so I just said, this stuff has
got to get out there, because there's always a new
audience when it comes to Bigfoot who wants to know
about this information. So that kind of blew my mind.
The other thing that I discovered on my own that
I have yet to hear anyone make a comment about

(35:52):
is that as I started digging into it, one thing
that was new that came about, I guess in the
early two thousands, two thousand and three, two thousand and four,
between I guess the fellow by the name of Ruben
Steindorf and Jeff Melgram, and I guess it was also
connected to Doug Hichecks in terms of what he was

(36:13):
doing on terms of documentary filmmaking in two thousand and three.
Was the im index, the intramembroial index in terms of
proportions of the leg length in relationship to the armlength.
And so that's in the book. But what blew my
mind as I was researching and writing the book, I

(36:34):
was here sitting in my office and I said, ha,
I wonder what the ancient hominid Lucy, what her IM
index was, And like everyone else, I just kind of
googled it and I had to dig a little bit,
and to my astonishment, to my utter astonishment, that Lucy,

(36:55):
who was discovered after the PG film. You remember the
PG film the sixty seven and Lucy came about the
ancient hominid diminutive in nature in terms of maybe being
probably no more than four feet tall from East Africa.
Lucy's at eighty four point six and Patty between Reuben

(37:16):
Steindorf and doctor Jeff Meldrum came in at eighty five
to ninety and so that right there is just probably
one of the biggest things that blew my mind. And
I think as the scientific and anthropological community comes to
grip with this problem or this issue of unknown hominids

(37:36):
in the world today, that this might really sink in
in terms of the reality of Patty because if you
take the position that Roger faked everything, so you mean
to tell me even before Lucy was discovered, he thought, oh,
when they find Lucy in the future, that her i
AM index is going to be like eighty four point six.

(37:57):
So we have to make Patty right in the ballpark
to make can all look legit. You know that would
never happen, But the fact that i AM indexes are
so similar, that's astonishing. That that, to me was one
of the biggest mind blowers I've I stumbled upon.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
So now that the book is done and I know
it's it's it's everybody has high praise for it. That's
selling pretty well. At the moment, I can't imagine you're
done with the PG film. I mean, there's there's got
to be a lot of I know, speaking for myself,
whenever I find out something new, it opens five or
six other questions for me. Where are you going now?

Speaker 4 (38:34):
Like?

Speaker 1 (38:34):
What now? What do you need to find out now?
What are you is your next project? With the PG film?

Speaker 2 (38:41):
Well, a lot of people have complained to me by
email or by postal letter, not by phone about all
the sources that I have that why don't I put
them out there? And so in Bigfoot a bluff create
the one that was published in two thousand and three,
I published several pages is a bibliography that were primary

(39:02):
sources related to the PG film, and oh, I don't know,
maybe it was seven pages long or something. But now
I'm going to publish this year a booklet of about
fifty pages or fifty five pages of strictly bibliography of
primary sources as it relates to the PG film. And

(39:23):
this is going to be for the people who want
to do their own research and do their own digging
and find out about this stuff from primary resource, primary
sources where the reporter actually spoke with Roger Patterson or
Bob Gimlin. And so that is going to be a
separate publication. I didn't want to put it with this book,
because then it would make it too big and too

(39:45):
expensive for the readership. So that's the next thing I'm
going to do.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
I see, I see. And of course you also have
some on site investigations still to like some surveys of
the site or something.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Is that right, Yeah, Because when we were there with
the Bluff Creep and Rowdy Kelly and Robert Leierman and
I think the last time we did that was twenty
twenty one and it's twenty twenty five. It's kind of
interesting how the years go by. But we were trying
to determine which lens camera lens for the Kodak K

(40:19):
one hundred camera, the twenty or the twenty five was
the better fit for the field of view FOV that
you see on a full frame of the PG film
from edge to edge, from left edge to right edge,
what you could see on the film itself. And so
when we were there the last time we did it,
the best match was the twenty millimeter lens, and Rowdy

(40:43):
Kelly had that lens in his possession and we did
the work with it and it seemed to be the
best match. But here's the thing, there's no indication that
Roger Patterson rented the camera with a twenty millimeter lens,
because in the police report, which is mentioned in my book,
it talks about the camera rental coming with a mobile

(41:05):
grip handle, so you could think of it as a
box camera with a pistol grip on the bottom where
you could put your hand on it and hold the camera,
and it specifically states that. So if the camera came
with a twenty millimeter lens in addition to the twenty
five milimeter, it seems like in the police report it
would have had that disclosure, but it does not. So

(41:27):
the Kodak K one hundred camera, which is the one
that Roger used, a sixteen millimeter camera. The default lens
that came in the box that the camera was sold
in was the twenty five millimeter. And somewhere down the line,
when I was writing Bigfoot at Bluff Creek, Renee to Hindon,
I would have maybe one or two phone calls in

(41:50):
a week with him, and he had told me point
blank that it was shot with the twenty five millimeter lens.
And so him being Renee to hind And I didn't
see a need to question it because all of his
information was always solid and looking back, the question I
would have asked him is how do you know this?

(42:12):
I never asked that question. And the same thing. John
Green is no longer with us too. And so when
John Green went there in June of sixty eight with
Jim McLaren, the question that I would have asked him
today is why didn't you take Roger Patterson? Because he
knew exactly where everything was. And somehow Roger did not

(42:35):
go on that trip. And I said, geez, if I
were going back to a crime scene, I would want
to have one of the witnesses with me. But somehow,
and I never asked that question to John Green. And
I asked Jim McLaren because he's still living and he
was part of it, and he says, you know, I
never I never really thought about that. I never ever

(42:55):
thought about it. I just knew that we were going
and Roger's name just never came up.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
And I guess Roger never did go back to the site.

Speaker 4 (43:03):
Actually did he?

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Now, according to Chris Murphy in one of his books,
Roger actually did go back one more time, sponsored by
I guess Ford Motor Company. And I want to say
that may have been in sixty nine, but I've never
seen any imagery of him on the film site again.

(43:24):
But according to Chris Murphy, the author from British Columbia,
I think he did go back one more time, but
I think by then his health had started to go downhill,
or was starting to almost like you could think of
it like a water heater starting to go bad. You know,
it'll go a little bit and then eventually it'll qunk out.

(43:44):
So maybe his health was of primary importance at the time,
even though by his own admission, he went to thigh
Land looking for Bigfoot by someone who wrote a letter
to him, and there's pictures of it, and he went
with I forget the guy's name, but the guy actually
lived with the Pattersons for a little bit.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Dennis Jensen.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Dennis Jensen, Yeah, yeah, I have access.

Speaker 1 (44:06):
There's photographs of that from Roger's trip out there in Thailand. Yeah,
I had no idea that Roger had gone back to
the site or there's rumor of that. And certainly if
it was sponsored, there's got to be footage of it.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
There probably is, but I have yet to see it.
And you know, people like Todd Prescott and the people
who are digging into a lot of this stuff. I
think that eventually maybe they'll hit pay dirt because Todd
Prescott was the person who brought out on October twentieth
of twenty twenty one, I believe the abominable. I could
be saying it wrong, but the documentary that John Napier

(44:41):
made about Patterson and Bigfoot in general, and that was
first shown in the UK, the United Kingdom and then
eventually found its way actually it never found its way
back to the United States. Todd Prescott had to put
it up on YouTube, and to my knowledge that it
was the first time that that you K documentary was

(45:02):
shown here in the United States courtesy of Todd Prescott.
So that's one of the reasons why he is in
the book and the discussion of the film and some
of the contents what Roger is telling John Napier, and
by Todd Prescott's own admission, which I had to scratch
my head about what John Napier did with that documentary
was the first documentary ever on Bigfoot period.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
I was thinking, can I remember anything earlier than that?
I don't think I can, because seventies was really the
heyday of all that.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Yeah, and then when the legend of Boggy Creek came
out in seventy two, seventy three, and the people who
are in the movie industry saw what a huge hit
it was financially. That's when everyone said, let's jump on
the bandwagon and do something like this.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Interesting, very interesting. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond
with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages. Well,
I think it's a great book, and it's a fantastic
contribution to a more thorough understanding of the film, its circumstances,

(46:13):
and the aftermath. But if you are in fact a
student of the subject who is with an undying curiosity
about the animals and also specifically this this chapter in
Bigfoot history, you got to you gotta have it. You
gotta have it. It'd be it'd be ridiculous not to.

Speaker 4 (46:31):
Are you gonna have side copies? Cleve?

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Well, so far, so far Daniel's and correct me if
I'm wrong, Daniel, So far Daniel is the only source
for it. There is no wholesale outlet at this moment. Yeah,
So the moment it is available to sell publicly, I
will of course jump on it. But Daniel, why don't
you tell our listeners the only way they can get
a hold of this book at this moment, please.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
Simply go to my website Bigfoot Times dot net and
send an email to me. And for the United States
customer customers, the book is sold for thirty nine dollars
and fifty four cents and the best way to do
it is to use PayPal and we'll ship a book
out to you and the rest of world, meaning Canada,

(47:16):
the UK, Australia, Russia, or South America. That the price
there is fifty nine dollars and fifty four cents for
the rest of the world, because just the postage to
get to the UK is about thirty dollars, believe it
or not. And one of the people in Spain who
got the book said that he wasn't mad, but he said,

(47:38):
I paid fifty nine dollars and fifty four cents for
your book, and when I got the book, I had
to pay a duty on it, like seven year old
just to get for the post office to release the
book to him. So he says, but I'm not mad
at you. That just the postal service.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, it's just the way things go. We ship overseas
a fair amount. For the North American Bigfoot Center, and
it is always a pain. We're happy to do it,
but I mean it starts adding up with all that
shipping costs and then they have to pay sometimes duty.
As you mentioned, it's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous, but it
is what it is. And there you go.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
At the present time, the only way to get the
book is through me. And it's almost like Jesus Christ saying,
if you want to get to Heaven, the only way
to get there is through me. That is the circumstance
right now. But what I want to do in the
future is I want to get a digital version, possibly
on Amazon, and I want to research it before I

(48:33):
jump into it so people could see a digital version,
because I do know that people throughout the United States
are on different budget styles and so maybe they can't
afford it, and they what they could afford the digital version.
And we're going to do a limited edition of hardbacks.
And when I do the hardback, I'm going to clean

(48:54):
up the minor errors and put that out and ask
everyone in the Bigfoot Times newsletter, I said, who wants
a hardback? And you know it's going to be even
more money, but there are going to be people that
want the hardback, So we're going to have a hardback
edition as well. And as I explore Amazon more in
terms of the bookselling aspect, the book itself in the

(49:17):
second printing might be on Amazon, because I think it
opens yourself up to even a bigger marketplace.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
You could certainly put me down for a hardback when
that happens. And the moment you get a wholesale situation,
let me know, because I'm sure that they would sell
very very nicely at the NABC as though there's.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
No wholesaling at the present time, but there is. Well
i'll tell you right now since it's for you, it's
actually for the North American Bigfoot Center. Is that we're
going to give some copies to the center so they
have resources to do to pay the rent and keep
the lights on. So that's coming up.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
So now, you know, very generous, thank you.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Like I said, this is my baby right now, this
Bigfoot at Bluff Creek of pictorial discussion, and it literally
is a pictorial discussion because there's so much in this
book that it's just like I mean, we go from
Eric Becher to MK Davis to Bob Hieronymous to Lye
Laverty to Jim McLaren to Richard Henry and all of

(50:19):
these names. It's just like most of the people who
are familiar with the PG film aren't necessarily familiar with
all these names. But I did some real in depth
interview with Lyle Laberty with Richard Henry before he passed
on with other people as well. And if we go

(50:40):
back to two thousand and three when they had the
symposium in Willow Creek, and I think Bobo was at there,
weren't you. Yeah, yeah, So I had phoned Al Hodgson
probably late two thousand and two or early two thousand
and three about the September two thousand and three symposium,

(51:00):
and we were just talking and he had just mentioned
he just kind of threw out a name, Richard Henry,
and he says, oh, yeah, Richard was up there with
Jim mclar and blah blah blah. And I said what,
And I said, is he still living? Does he have
a phone number? And so as soon as he told
me some information about Richard Henry, I wanted to interview him.

(51:23):
And he actually showed up at the symposium and I
got a photo with him, and it's in the news
Bigfoot Times newsletter, but I was mostly preoccupied with the symposium,
so I just had greetings with Richard Henry. But then
one year later, on October two thousand and four, I
rang Richard Henry again and I said, I'm coming up

(51:44):
and I said, I want you to go with me.
We're going to do some work. And he, by then
he was retired and he was gung ho to do it,
and he says, hey, can I take my grandson with me?
And I said, yeah, let's do it. Let's make the
day out of it. So we spent the whole day together, literally,
and then I bought them. I think we stopped in
Eureka to have dinner, and so I paid dinner for everyone.

(52:09):
But on that trip it was all about the alleged
route of Roger and Bob coming out on a certain road.
I forget what it is, the bald Hills Road, and
so we took that route to see if it was
doable to get out on the Bald Hills Road to
the Highway one oh one and then come down to

(52:30):
Eureka and then shoot over from Eureka back to Willow Creek,
and to do that time wise, to get to Willow
Creek by six thirty or whatever the time was, it
was virtually impossible. So what we did is we kept
the odometer notes and time notes, and then when we
had dinner, of course, we shut everything down, and then

(52:51):
we started again with the clock. And then so when
I got home from that trip, I said, you know what,
why don't I just call Bob Gimlin and see what
he has to stay on the matter. And to make
a long story short, when I spoke with Bob Gimlin
in October of two thousand and four, and he didn't
even know what I was talking about. He said, when

(53:14):
we got on the blacktok back on the Blacktop Highway
ninety six, he said, we went straight to Willow Creek,
and he raised his voice, he said, we went straight
to Willow Creek. So that's the route they took. And
the Bald Hills route, which actually came up in discussion

(53:35):
with Al Hodgson, is some false memory or something, because
that was never the route that they took. And then
I got with Richard Henry again in October of two
thousand and six, and we camped where the bat boxes
are on Bluff Creek and we did a video taped
interview about what he saw, and the essence of his

(53:57):
interview is that those that he saw started right there
at Bluff Creek and there was no trackway of it
getting to that point. And so one is to assume
that Patty was walking in the creek, and one might
suspect or speculate that the reason she was walking in

(54:21):
the creek was intentional not to leave tracks, because she
was probably aware of the presence of people in the area,
which meaning Lyle Laberty who was camped down in Laos
Camp and was patrolling those roads for what trees they
were gonna chop down. And so his testimony, he says,

(54:42):
he says there was no one on November fifth of
sixty seven. There were three people. Lyle Laberty, excuse me,
Richard Henry, Jim McLaren and Bob Barnett were there on
November fifth of sixty seven, and they said not one
of those people could make as deep as Patty. And
they took two of the people, I think Bob Barnett

(55:06):
and Jim McLaren piggybacked on him, still trying to make
tracks as deep as Patty, and they were still not successful.
And so they came to the conclusion that whoever was
making these tracks real or fake, made extremely deep tracks.
And Richard told me, he says, I've hunted bear and

(55:28):
stuff like that, and I've hunted in general, and he says,
I looked at those tracks on my hands and knees
trying to figure out how they faked them. And he says,
I could not figure out how this was done if
it was fake. And as he said, the depth of
the tracks is what really impressed him. Lyle Lafferty, who

(55:48):
saw the tracks, said whatever was leaving those tracks was
extremely heavy. And so that's the key for the skeptics
and the doubters. Is not one of those people has
ever forget about the film, the film subject, Patty, just
think about the tracks for a moment. No one has.
None of the doubters and the skeptics have proposed a

(56:11):
solution as to how those tracks were so deep in
the sandbar. So that's another thing. And then when I
interviewed Lyle Lafferty, what came out of it on the
second goal around in October of twenty seventeen. Okay, he
saw the tracks and he took photos of it, and
then they had to go assess what trees they were
going to cut down, but he set up on Scorpion Creek.

(56:33):
They said they saw something very very unusual and it
was like a nest and he says, he says, and
he when he's talking to me on as I'm recording it,
there was emphasis it was so unusual, and that comes
out in this book and he says, we didn't know
what to make of it. And this was before the

(56:55):
PG film was shot, because they were there since the
summer of six all the way through October of sixty seven,
and so one might speculate that maybe Patty or someone
else was betting down in that area. And then also too,
when Jim McLaren was there in June of sixty eight

(57:16):
with John Green and George Hass, Jim McLaren told George
halfs that on Bluff Creek there that there was these
small manlike footprints, and it's in George's notes which appear
in the front of the book, the small footprints. And
George looked at them, and I guess he kind of
he said, well, there's probably just tracks of a person,

(57:39):
but they didn't take any photos. But the admission is
already in writing, it's already memorialized, and one might speculate,
and again this is strictly speculation, is that might what
Jim McLaren saw but didn't photograph in June twenty third
of sixty seven might not have been the offspring of Patty.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
There's a lot of questions that will never have an
answer to, unfortunately, but it's fun to think about. And
it's also, I think, really really useful in some ways
to find these little tidbits, even if they don't lead
to any anywhere in particular. But like I think a
lot of these things will essentially be long term dead ends, unfortunately,
but they do help corroborate some stuff. You know, when

(58:24):
after sasquatches are proven to be real animals and nesting
is a known behavior, we can look back on this
and say, oh, yeah, yeah, well that that drives pretty
well with what we now know about sasquatches. You know,
and without effort by people like yourself or other historians
and people digging into the past, all this stuff would
be lost. Essentially, they'd be arguing over you know, doesn't

(58:45):
look like a suit or not, and forgetting all the
minutia that supports that the film did in fact happen
as it was purported to happen. And I think all
that is just infinitely more fascinating than I don't see
a zipper.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Right, I agree with you one hundred percent. And I
want to make mention of the late doctor John Bendernagel,
and I think, in fact you were there at the
meat I was at Wenacchi, Washington State, and I think
that was twenty seventeen because I had shoulder surgery and
I had some time off, and so I went up

(59:23):
to that meet with Dennis Rumminer from San Diego and
I said, Hey, you want to go and he said sure.
And so when doctor Benderagel gave his last speech before
he passed away the next year, he said something to
the effect of paraphrasing him. He says, I think the
scientific community will look back on itself and say, like,

(59:45):
how could we have missed something so big? And it
really stuck with me because I knew he was like
right on the money.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Yeah, I think they're'll be kicking themselves in the butt
on this one. After it'saul said and done, there'll be
some crow to eat.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
I think that the issue with Bigfoot and the skeptics
and the doubters in general as Michael Shermer, who is
one of the biggest skeptics out there, which is okay,
I guess he writes a column for Scientific American, but
he's always shown me the body and at the present
time there's no body to be seen. But when you

(01:00:22):
look at the PG film, that is the body on
film a female and most people say, well, no, that's
just a man in a costume. But when you start
to drill down on the subject in a very intelligent manner,
you start to realize there's too much going on in
that film for it to be fake, and there's muscle

(01:00:43):
masses that are moving, and it's just an incredible piece
of cinematography in the sense that wow, if somebody fake this,
it's just like, how did they do it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Before? We let you go? Here, Daniel, One more time
for our listeners, where can they get the book with
the easiest way from them?

Speaker 4 (01:01:00):
Do it?

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Just simply go to Bigfoot Times dot net and you'll
see my email address up at the top, and just
send an email and we'll send you an invoice and
you could pay via PayPal. The book is presently thirty
nine dollars and fifty four cents and So with that,
my final thought or input for you people out there

(01:01:22):
who are listening is that you might ask why thirty
nine dollars and fifty four cents?

Speaker 4 (01:01:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
Why there, I'm glad you asked. Forget about the three,
but go nine five four, And so nine to five
four is the number of frames in the.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
PG film who very nerdy, well played, sir, good job.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Do you sign understand the super limited edition of the book,
which accounts to three hundred and fifty two copies, and
again think frame three fifty two. Those are autographed, signed,
They have a soil sample, and they have a big
foot stamp, and they have the copy number that you possess.

(01:02:06):
And so that's the super limited edition. Matt Pruett has
a copy, and Cliff Brackman has a copy. Doctor Jeff
Meldram has a copy, Lauren Coleman has a copy, and
so those, as the years go on, those are the
things that hopefully, I mean, I might be thinking too big,

(01:02:28):
that might get your kids through college one day.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
And for the listeners, I'll have a link to Daniel's
book listing for the book in the show notes, So
just click that link. It'll take you right there.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Daniel Thank you so much for coming on Bigfoot and
Beyond with all of us here and sharing about your
very very impressive book. Again, I've read it. It is fantastic.
As big a Bigfoot nerd as I am, I picked
up a lot of little tidbits things that I was
completely unaware of. The images are overwhelming, just to see
what it was like at these historic events when McLaren

(01:03:02):
was doing, like the recreation with John Green, it's absolutely phenomenal.
Thank you very much for my copy. I really really
appreciate it. I consider you a good friend For that
and many other things. You've always been very very helpful
to me in my own work and research. So again,
thank you for everything, and particularly for coming on the
podcast with us today.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Thank you for having me, and to my knowledge, this
is the second time I've been on your podcast. And
my final thought to you is that when I wrote
this book, I knew, well you probably knew that I
wouldn't let you Dan No.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
No. Now, if anybody's going to write a good book
about the PG subject in general, it's going to be
you the PG film in general, because you are considered
an expert about the film itself and all the surrounding
circumstances and the history. And I'm glad you did this.
I think that the entire community should be glad you
did this.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Now that we're having this discussion, I think I have
someone in mind as the big Footer of the Year
for this year for the Bigfoot Times newsletter, Daniel Perez.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
All right, well, thank you very much, Daniel. Once again,
I really appreciate.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
It, very good. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
All right, thanks to all right, folks, Well that was
Daniel Perez. You can check out his new book. Okay,
we wait to get my own copy and you should too.
So until next week, y'all, keep it beyond squatchy just squatchy,
uh shit.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
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(01:04:48):
and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag
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Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Put ads still to do again.