July 14, 2025 • 59 mins
Cliff Barackman, James "Bobo" Fay, and Matt Pruitt take to the news feeds to learn about chimpanzee drumming, chimpanzee vocalizations, a Denisovan skull, ancient bones thought to be human, and Neanderthal weapons! Bobo regales his companions with a new Story Time and a rundown of some of his most memorable injuries.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys
are your favorites, so like Shay Subscribe and raid.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It five star shot and.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Righteous on Quesh today and listening, oh watching lim always
keep its watching.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Fay Bobo Club. Hey, it's good to have you.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
It's good to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I bet it is, I bet it is. It's great
to be here. Great to be here. That's a nod
yamarone right there.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah, signed the place moving to a new place in
Blue legg next month.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh, it's happening. It's happening, so it's official.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Man, it is the end of an era, I think
for I mean, I met you in two thousand and
four or five or something. Weren't you living in that
little shack on the beach where you're still living right
now at that point or no? Or had you not
moved there yet?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah? I was. I was. Actually I had a place
in Arcada and here for like a couple of years
because the rent out here it was three hundred and
twenty five bucks and I split it with another guy,
so it was like whatever, like one hundred and seventy
a month to have a beach house. Then I moved
out of the Arcada house out here like in two
thousand for like full time.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Uh huh man. There's been quite a cast of characters
passing through there. I mean, I can remember I've spent
a lot of time at the house. I haven't been
there in years and years and years, so I have
no I had no idea how how good or bad
a shape it is and right now, but I've seen
it go through some definite iterations. I suppose I remember that.
(01:45):
Who was that one dude that lives in your laundry
room for a while, Oh roch Rotch of course, of course,
tell me about him.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
He was the original surfboard shapeer up here. He drew
my tattoos too. He made that surfboard, the board where
I have my dog bed that got the tattoo in
my arm of He drew all that, and he made
me some boards. He was He was a classic character,
but he's he was a little I mean, he lived
in a chicken coop, so he was a little bit off.
(02:13):
He was a genius, like total you know, foblo ingenius,
awesome artist, painter, and just a funny guy, like you know,
real real, real smart, intelligent and well read, but just
you know, he just couldn't really function too great in society.
But he he got a pneumonia and then had like
a massive heart attack, and he was living in that
(02:34):
chicken coop that released him. He had open heart surgery
and they were going to release him back in and dude,
there was standing eight inches of water in his chicken
coop and it would be flooded all winter, and he just
put down stacks of palates to walk around. I'm like, man,
I think it goes back into that chicken coop. He's
gonna die. He already had pneumonia, They're gonna put him
back in there. I was like, I you can just
move them with me for a while. Ended up being
(02:55):
like three and a half years or something. You just say,
I sent a little room in the laundry room. He
loved it. He was sitting there and drew and he'd
watch Monkey when I was gone.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, you know, I don't think i'd ever i'd ever
met him. I would just see evidence of his presence.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Oh there was a lot of evidence of that.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, that there is, that there is. I remember one
time I went to that house and you know your
living room right there, you know, you come into the
door and there's at the room with the couch and
then there's out of that side room. That was like
a maze.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, I mean I.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Think you had exercise equipment and stacks of boxes and stuff.
And there was this stuffed animal sort of thing of
Cartman from South Park that was mostly covered with black
mold if I remember.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah, he was tied up on the wheelhouse of the
Crabwood I was on for a few years. Carton was
up there on top and then uh we had a
speaker that came out there and had a couple of
pre recordings on of Cartman, and uh, Jimbo would blast
like you know, Cartman cussing at people and stuff. So
would be at Cartmon on top of the wheelhouse cussing
(03:57):
at people. And then I just ended up at my
house one day and so it sat on the nattle
for a couple of years, but it was just so
disgusting I had to toss it.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So you had a robocartment, Yeah, oh, we have something
like that here, don't we prove it?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Well cool, that's exciting, Bobo. I'm happy for you, and
I'm I'm super happy for you, and I'm even slightly
happier for Karita because I think it might be a
more suitable house for a woman of dignity.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yeah, we said we weren't going to move into an
old house. We're going to move into like a newer house.
But there was that one I said that there was
there was a possibly have a SaaS question. Walk up
to it on the outside of Blue Lake that was
in the woods. That was like a two bedroom, one bath,
and it was it's getting to read down. The guy's
a contractor. He's like, he does beautiful work. It would
be nice, but it was like we already had a
(04:48):
two bedroom, one bath and for a couple hundred bucks
less in town was a bigger, two story old Victorian
like three bedroom, two bath. It's way more like it's
we're separated. Like I can I can like talk and
like you know, I could, you know, make phone calls
and stuff. At night. I could go like be downstairs
and not be keeping like in this house. It's just
(05:09):
so you know, small and you know, noisy, like you
can hear noises all through it. That I'll be like,
you know, I'll have more freedom there.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, I mean, you do live in a great place
and stuff, but you know it's time to move on
to a little bit better place. And yeah, keep Koreita happy.
Of course, she's an angel after all, and it'll be
better for you and the even been for the podcast.
It sounds like maybe a little bit less street noise. Yeah,
for sure, fewer people shrieking running down the street and
things like that.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
You know, so you're.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Getting a man cave.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, I'll have a man cave. Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Awesome, awesome, Well, good for you. Congratulations, Boba. I'm excited
about that for you.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Thank you, me too, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, we got some work to do.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, I got to answer some questions. You got questions
to answer, mister.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Today, a Q and a mat or is it a topical? Topical?
Oh all right, should we do that?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
All right, well let's see. Let's open let me open
the email.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, we got the well, the first one we got
to the drumming Chimpanzees.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
I do love the subtitle that says step aside, Phil Collins,
These wild chimpanzees have remarkable rhythm with no drum kit insight,
as if like the go to reference for like power
drumming is Phil Collins.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
That's when I was a laughing at the SAT fire.
Was he had just retired like like two weeks before
that because he had multiple sclerosis.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
I like, Phil, I'm not distant Phil. I think I
think we should rename the drum Phil the drum Phil
with a pH in his honor. But still, it's just it.
I was like, that was an interesting choice of drummer.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah. Yeah, So they talk about how wild chimpanzees are
natural drummers and they tap out rhythms on their surroundings
like certain kinds of like tree trunks, and so there's
been a big collaboration with researchers all the world and
that they deliberately drum with timing, hitting tree trunks and
roots as they travel and who and it gave fientists
(07:09):
insight into the possible origins of the human musicality.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And of course this has a lot to do with
sasquatches as well, because of tree knocks in general, we
don't really to this day still know how sasquatches are
doing tree knocks. There's been observations of them, a very
small number of observations of sasquatches making these kinds of noise.
There's a couple that have them hitting tree trunks with
with other logs or sticks or something. There's a couple
(07:34):
of three or four of them clapping. There's also real
possibility that they're like hitting their chest like a gorilla
wood with a cupped hand, making that popping noise. They
might even be making these sounds with their mouth. But
the fact is they are making those noises, and that's
the point here. And one of the things that stood
out to me about this particular article is that it
seems that various populations of chimpanzees, very like localized chimpanzee populations,
(07:59):
do different kinds of patterns, implying some sort of cultural influence.
You see, humans think that culture is is something that
really isn't. Culture has just passed on knowledge from generation
to generation. At the end of the day, all like
ape species show culture. So do crows though, and humans
do as well. We're just a little odd in the
way we do things. Everything we do seems to be odd.
(08:21):
But yeah, the fact that local sasquatches might be using
different kinds of tree knocks, or different patterns of tree knocks,
or different techniques in general, based on their cultural knowledge,
like their knowledge that was passed on to them from you,
the adults or whatever as they were growing up. I
think that's of interest here. I think that's pretty neat.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, And some tribal members up in Washington State, Moneymaker
and I gave these native girls a ride from Tweets
over to the Muckleshoot Rez. They wanted to go visit
some boys over there or whatever. So we drove there
and we talked to the Buckleshoot girl. She saw all
kinds of stuff, and then her family was big and
(09:02):
like traditional ceremonies and stuff. And we went to the
casino and they came down and we met that Matt.
Now this was in like two thousand and four, so
it was like over twenty years ago, and they were
telling us. They were going into great detail about how
the Sasquatches when they do these drumming rhythm chants, that
the big foots would come out and would stomp outside
(09:26):
the sweat lodge area and they would they would pound
their feet to the to the music and get excited
and they would they would stomp their feet like in rhythm.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Hm. That's interesting. Yeah, if chimpanzees are doing this and
humans do this. That implies that suggests at least that
our last common ancestors some six million years ago were
probably doing this as well. And if that's the case,
this sort of behavior is at least possible in sasquatches right,
And the idea of bringing drums to the woods is
(09:58):
a pretty common motif in Bigfoot. Right. A lot of
researchers do that sort of stuff, and I don't think
it was it started with Henry Franzoni in that documentary
way back in the day. I think people were doing
it beforehand. It probably started with the native people drumming,
of course, you know centuries or you know, millennia ago,
but that might just tickle the sasquatch brain in a
nice way. It's like, oh, we kind of understand that, like,
(10:19):
there's something cool, there's something being crafted here. Is that's
not random noise and draw interest because the rhythm like this,
it predates probably early hominid behavior. And that also suggests,
which I think is super fascinating, that probably we don't know,
but probably most, if not all, human ancestors did something similar.
(10:42):
And I think that's cool. And I think that the
overlap of human behavior and sasquatch behavior to me is
of great interest. One of the things that stands out
this isn't drumming exactly, but when I was in Vietnam
on Find, you know, for when we're filming Finding Bigfoot,
I had the camping segment. So I was out in
the in the junk, backpacking, and I was running. Well,
(11:03):
I don't even know if like hooting and hollering and
you know, like wo whoops and stuff and knocks are
going to work on these I did it anyway. But
the response is when I whooped and stuff and whoo,
what I got back were humans that lived out in
the jungle. You know, there's like thirteen different ethno group
ethnic groups that live in the jungles of Vietnam are more.
(11:23):
And those humans to locate each other whoop and go whoo,
and they do it back. They're doing bigfoot behaviors, or
our sasquatch is doing human behaviors. It doesn't matter. They're
both doing the same behaviors. And this drumming thing is
another overlap between the human and sasquatch behavior that I
thought was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, yep, classic.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Bobo. You need a robo bobo like bored right, in
front of you.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Yeah, the episode that we recorded as an Yeah, but
we we toured with the idea of like maybe you
should sell robo Bobo ringtones.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
What it sound like.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
It could be like you know when when people call,
they just get like a you know, their phone gives
them a notification like shoot it and they know, oh,
I've got a text or whatever, you know. And there
was a great suggestion from our member wood Burger James,
who said that we should have like a Bobo action
figure that makes those sounds that like you press a
(12:30):
button and it randomly calls up one of those sounds.
And I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Tickle me Robo Bobo.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I like it.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
They could have it bru you know, like the old
the old Hulk ones or you're like press his chest
and it's like old smash, Like you could have a
Bobo action figure. I think it would be awesome. And
he did suggest that not only would it be great
for Bobo fans, but that people could use it at
like gifting stations and maybe Sasquatches would start carrying them around.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I like it.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
There would be no greater honor than if someone had
a sighting of a sasquatch and it was carrying a
Bobo action figure.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Did you remember that one? Cliff Rock, the guy rosched
the artist of the surfboard out of my laundry room.
He made that stone cold Steve Austin all. He repainted
it all and made it me like one of flip
flops and no, yeah, little wig on it and stuff.
It was hilarious, so funny.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
No, I didn't know. I did not see that, but
I wish I had. My life will never be complete now, you.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Know how they're like articulatable. We need one that you
can put into like various hot yoga poses, but so.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
That as in a can smell drop on there.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
That story was a big hit.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
By the way, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond
with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages.
You know, Bobes, squatching season is in full swing and
I can't help but know this. You're wear in that
gone squatch and hats.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
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restrictions and important safety information. You know, I did think
in that article too. The other interesting thing is that
not only were there those regional differences that sort of suggest,
you know, cultural differences, but that they did detect individual
(15:52):
differences as well. So there's some variation at many levels,
but there's also some conformity to you know, the local culture,
so to speak. But to close point two, it is
interesting that we share that behavior with chimps, which does
imply that the common ancestor between humans and chimpanzees did
as well. So who knows how far back that goes.
But that was a pretty fascinating article in fascinating findings,
(16:14):
and it's you know, it's a bit different than we
knew that chimpanzees drummed or produced percussive sounds, but to
go into it deeper, like this is a new finding.
I did see some trolls on Meldrem's page because he
posted something similar. I think it was a different article,
but about these same findings. When people were like, well, uh,
everyone knows the chimpanzee's drum and it's like, oh, you guys,
(16:35):
missed the point. This isn't the discovery of drumming. It's
the discovery of like the fact that there are like
distinct meanings, so to speak, or at least distinct rhythms
that possibly have some sort of meanings locally regionally.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, I wonder how much overlaud. I wonder how much
it would mean the same thing, Like if you took
a West African champ and a East African champion they
heard each other's, like how much they understand.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
It'd be a fun experiment to do, I guess. But uh,
but you know, even moving one members of one population
to the other area to do that experiment would probably
change the experiment quite a bit, I think, so, I'm
not sure they'd be able to I guess they probably
do recordings of it and see what happens.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, yeah, they could. I'm sure they'll figure something out.
They'll try it.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I'm sure I have often won. I mean we've all wondered.
I remember having conversations with you out in the woods,
but like about vocalizations or knocks, like if they if
those are regionally and culturally therefore culturally dependent like that,
In other words, do do sasquatches have accents kind of
and can and how how clear are the meanings from
(17:42):
like east to west? You know, you take a sasquatch
call from Ohio, like the Ohio how you do it
in California. We know it works because it's been done,
but we have no idea what it means, of course,
and maybe it's just confusing to the Californian listener, just
like Californians are confusing too many other people parts of
the country, you know, like a cultural difference.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, if.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
That's the article we started with, it makes sense to
go just to the next one, which is on the
Science dot org.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
One. I'm just going to say that I got.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
That's one I'm on, yeah, yeah, And the title is
Versatile use of Chimpanzee call combinations promotes meaning expansion. And
the gist here is that these scientists went out and
recorded over four thousand vocalizations from fifty three wild chimpanzees
across three communities in Africa, right, And what they noticed
(18:35):
is that they were combining calls or vocalizations of the way,
they were combining them to change or augment the meaning
of those calls. So they noticed basically imagine a chimpanzee
making a sound, and that sound might mean mean something,
but a chimpanzee making two different sounds means something different
(19:00):
then that single one does.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
So it's like basically using two words together. And they
identified sixteen different they call them buy grams, two words
put together by grams, right, and they show that these
things that the chimpanzees employ four mechanisms that they thought
were only used by humans. And there's fancy names for them,
(19:25):
but basically the ones called non compositional idioms. Idioms of course,
are English things that like they're like metaphoric speech basically,
and in this case, non compositional idioms are call combinations
that give entirely new meanings, right, entirely new meanings. So again,
it's like using two words together, that the meaning of
(19:47):
the two words together is completely different than the other,
than the than the root words that you use the
initial two.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
The second thing that they found that chimpanzees are doing
that again they only thought humans did, is the fancy
word is compositional with modification, and what that means that
it combines that adjusts the clarity or the meaning of
these two calls or as individual sounds right, and so
the next one. The third thing is called compositional with addition,
(20:17):
which is basically simply adding new combinations like another simple
additive combination. So the two words for lack of better
the two sounds that the chimpanzee are making, just adds
the second one to the first one, which makes a
lot of sense. And the last one was order sensitive effects,
which means that the sounds, the calls, the order in
(20:39):
which they're produced changes the meaning itself. And this is
brand new behavior that's been observed in chimpanzees, and it's
now has been documented, and again it just breaks down
that barrier between humans and our closest relatives, the chimpanzees.
We have a lot more in common with our ap
cousins than from my experience, the vast majority of people
(21:03):
would be comfortable with. I think it's cool. I'm perfectly
comfortable knowing that I'm an ape, and I love these
reminders of breaking down the barriers. Humans are very odd
and very special in a lot of ways, but we're
not quite as special as a lot of people would
like to think. A lot of our behaviors can be
explained by looking at the apes, and this is just
(21:23):
another example of it.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah. Yeah, So what they're talking about is like they
might have they'll do like the chimpanzee hooting, they'll do
a pant like and then a who like pant who
or a pant huff. They'll combine the different one before
the other, or vice versa will have different meanings.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, and you know, the combination of these sounds is huge.
It's huge, right for the implications of human evolution and
all this other the things that make us humans, the
things that we'd like to hear about ourselves, like everybody does,
and we like to hear about humans. And so the
presence of this like combinational you know, mechanisms, I guess
(22:05):
in chimpanzee calls kind of suggests that the found like
the foundation of language and syntax existed in our last
common ancestor again six or seven million years ago. Syntax,
by the way, is an element of language that that
it's the combination, it's it's it's the combination of words
(22:26):
or phrases in a language. You know, it's basically the
order of words and what that does to the meaning.
That's what syntax basically is, and that is what is
being shown here that the chimpanzees have this foundational level
for syntax. So this is almost certainly at the very
(22:47):
root of the evolution of language that humans have become
so adept at.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
That's what they're saying.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, and of course that what does that mean for sasquatches? Well,
I mean if sasquatches share it similar that the same
you know, common ancestor they have this too, so and
and of course with their gigantipithos scenes, that means the
common ancestor is much much further back, so who knows,
who knows, and maybe maybe they still have it, who knows,
(23:15):
But it does it says something about possible language use
for sasquatches. It suggests something that could be there. We
don't know that, but it could be there.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah. What's funny is uh, well, just interesting is that
the most common sounds they use like they've they've the
sixteen they have, but the most common are pants, who
grunts and uh yeahs in grunts, So the three most
common that they use in combinations and what do you
hear in bigfoot reports like those are reported a lot
(23:50):
hooting and all of those sounds.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, and you know, one of the other takeaways from
this article is of course, that the sounds and the
combinations of sounds are used in various contexts, and those
contexts change and therefore the meanings change. And that's important because,
you know, one hundred years ago or something or even less,
you know, probably in the seventies and eighties or not
(24:14):
much earlier than that, people were still thinking that animals
and even even apes were mostly like reactionary automatrons in
a way, you know, like in the way that most
people think of insects or reptiles, that they just react
to their environment without without intent or pre planning or
thinking or anything like that. You know, I think one
(24:36):
hundred years ago, any naturalists or any anybody studying the
biology and apes in particular would be very surprised to
learn that that chimpanzees in this case have like vocal
systems that have a huge functional range that's very very
close to spoken language in a way, as opposed to
like just calling alarm calls or there's food here, or
(25:00):
you get out of my way, you jerk, or any
of those basic things that you know, all animals kind
of you know, any any vocal animal would be vocalizing
about so that that flexibility due to the context is
a huge thing to have learned. And you know, if
you study apes at all, you know it's kind of
(25:20):
a like, well, yeah, of course, you know apes are
amazing and extraordinarily intelligent and have complex social interactions and
everything like that. But what I find is most people
have no idea that apes are like that. I still
and it just drives me nuts. I still have people
who say to me, like, you think sasquatches are just
(25:40):
dumb apes. There's no such thing as a dumb ape. Anyway,
there's my soapbox again, So I'll get off of it,
although I could use the extra height.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, I can't wait. I mean just cracking it now.
So we'll see what comes out that, which should be
some pretty exciting things over the next several years out
of this study.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Oh yeah, yeah, anything else before we.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Were you know. The other thing they have on there
is the the barks another uh and the panted scream
and just scream and panted grunt and panted. Who's those
are the those are the most common combined.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
It kind of sounded like your pigeon noise there for
a minute. Is that a chimpanzee or a pigeon it's
hard to tell.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Cross it's a pigeon. It's a chimpanzee imitating a pigeon.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
It serves the same function. It offers a warning and
is a call to recruitment.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Recument.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
I'll give you who dose on that joke?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Oh that's close job.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah, I get taken over my spot man, stay in
your lane through it.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Yeah, I'm not I'm not great at the dad jokes.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Neither am. I clearly.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Should we go to the next article?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Show?
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Indeed?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Do you want this one, Bobs? Or shall I take it?
Speaker 3 (27:23):
You can take it, okay?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Or do you want it?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Prove it whatever? Cliff can have it?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Okay, all right, thanks, thanks for robo Bobo. All right, okay.
This one here comes out of Nature dot Com and
the title of the article is first ever skull from
Dennissovan reveals what ancient people looked like. Yeah, kind of,
I guess. But the real gist of this particular article
is that a few years ago, you may remember this,
(27:49):
I made a big deal out of it out of
the time at the time, rather a new human species
was thought to have been discovered in a place called
Harbin in China, and it was called dragon Man, And
of course it came out at the same time as
another human ancestor was discovered in Israel somewhere, I believe,
and that one didn't get all the attention. Dragon Man
(28:10):
got all the attention because of the sexy name. You know,
a dragon man that's very sexy, right, very very media worthy.
I suppose it's about one hundred and forty hundred and
fifty thousand years old, and it has a really prominent
brow ridge, and the brain's about the same size as
a human being and Neanderthal, the innertal has actually had
bigger brains than humans. But it's about about right in
(28:31):
there basically. And they thought it was a new species
homolonge I believe is what they called. It. Turns out
it's not a new species. Turns out it is a
known species, the Denisovans. So this is the first full
cranium of Homodenis Sovan that has been discovered. And they
figured out that it was denis Soovan not from DNA,
(28:52):
because the story the Denisovan is really entwined with the
DNA thing the species was discovered in a cave I
think in Russia. I think it was Russia. But I
might be chrying to but I think it was Russia. It
was discovered a small finger bone. Was it Russia? Okay? Good?
A small finger bone was discovered in this cave, and
(29:12):
they said, oh, this is almost certainly Neanderthals. So they
got they got a little piece of DNA out of there,
and they examined the DNA and it turns out that
it wasn't the DNA from a Neanderthal. It was an
unknown DNA that was closely related but different. So they said,
holy smokes, new species. Look at this, you know, which
is really cool for us bigfooters in that a species
was discovered using DNA. That's a big deal, right. So
(29:35):
that's how Denis ovens were discovered. And as time went on,
and this is I don't know how long ago. It
might be five years ago or I don't know, somewhere
in there, five eight years ago, I don't know, but
it turns out that there was a partial mandible in
a collection somewhere that turned out to be Homodenis ovens.
So we actually had another bone fragment fossilized bone fragment
(29:55):
from this species, but it wasn't recognized as a novel's
at that time. It was thought to be Neanderthals because
they're kind of similar in some ways.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
I thought there was a big move to reclassify that.
There's no such thing as Denisovan's alt in the anophol.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Well, I mean, there's there's lumpers and splitters in paleoanthropology,
so it's kind of like wherever you want to come
down on that one. I've talked to Meldrum a lot
about this, not not particularly Denisovans. Apparently those were actually
different than than Neanderthals, so I think that'd be a
hard sell. But in palaeoanthropology and actually in science in general,
I would say I think this would be true across
(30:30):
the academia. Of course, everybody wants their name on a
new species, so when they find some difference in a
skull or a twoth or whatever, they very often slap
a new name on there, when actually what might be
a better suit is just recognizing genetic diversity within a species.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Or phenotypic diversity. I mean that's a big denominator too,
is physical differences and I would say, just to Bobo's question, like,
we know that they're different because they do have distinct
genetic signatures. And there's one first generation hybrid with a
Neanderthal mother and a Denisovan father.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Oh that's right.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, Well, in this particular case with the dragon man's
skull being identified as Denisovan, they didn't do it through DNA.
I guess they couldn't get DNA out of the skull anywhere,
but they did use basically some type it's a protein.
It might have been a similar protein study is what
they use on gigantipithicine teeth back in the day to
identify that they are in the Shivapithecus and orangutan line.
(31:29):
But they use proteins from calcified dental plaque on their
teeth and determined that the skull was actually Denisovan. So
we have a skull of the Denisovan. Very very interesting,
and of course Neanderthals interbred with human beings. I think
most people know that at this point Denisovans also did.
They also did that, and I don't I'm not really
(31:51):
up on the most recent research on it, but I
do remember reading that the Denisovan DNA has been found
in the people of Tibet and the high areas of
the Himalayas, and that's they think that those particular genes
give these modern a humans a larger lung capacity to
help them deal with the low oxygen content at the
altitudes they live at. So it's pretty cool stuff. Yeah,
(32:14):
And it was proteomics that they used in part. I mean,
it looks like they also extracted mitochondrial DNA, but they
also used proteomics, which is a comparative protein analysis, like
they did in Giganopithecus, which i've since that proteomics study
came out about Giganos in twenty nineteen. You know, you
use protein analysis when you can't really extract much DNA.
(32:36):
It serves as like a low resolution proxy for DNA.
But it always made me wonder, and I've asked around
about this and never really gotten a clear answer. But
couldn't we do that on hair? Since hair is predominantly
composed of protein, you know, keratin is protein based. Could
you do proteomics on sasquatch hair or purported sasquatch hair
(32:56):
if there's not enough you know, medula to extract DNA from. Yeah, Yeah,
I've thought the same thing, And actually I have brought
that up with Darby, and I believe, if I remember right,
he thought that was interesting. But you know, Darby's going
to be here next week, so or I don't know
next week from when I'm recording this, I don't know
when this episode is going to air, but I will
ask him about that and see if I can get
a cool answer from him. So but yeah, so now
(33:18):
we know a little bit about what Dennis Ovn's actually
looked like at the heavy brow ridge get a very
neanderthal esque, you know, very you know, kind of archaic
human esque sort of thing, you know, heavy brow ridge
and thick skull, big brained. I think that's pretty interesting.
So it gives a little bit of insight into like
harmon and brain evolution, and then their cognition maybe who knows,
(33:38):
who knows? I mean, the Denis Obin thing. I think.
I think it was around twenty ten that they surfaced
for the first time in our and we recognize them,
so we've got a lot to learn. They've they've only
been in our paradigm here for a decade or so.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Yeah, and then finding also expanded the known range pretty significantly.
To a much broader range of Asia, extending from siber
area to northern China between roughly two hundred and seventeen
thousand and one hundred and six thousand years ago. So,
like we would posit for many of these fossil apes,
they had much larger expanse in space and probably a
(34:12):
much larger expanse in time that we just don't have
confirmed through other findings. Yet sounds a lot like a
sasquatch to me. I think that's one of the keys
to their success living in small numbers than LEAs spread
across the continent or continents, is their adaptability. And I
think we'd find the same thing in a lot of hominins.
I think indeed, indeed indubitably.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
There you go. Should we go on to the next one, or.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Let's travel across Asia to Japan? The bar bolls, Oh yeah, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
So this one, this next article, we happen to get
it from Live science dot com. It talks about a
twenty thousand year old fossil that was thought to be
human in origin from Japan, but it turns out it's not.
There's a mistake here. It was not human at all.
It was called ushi kawa man.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I don't read Japanese, well, so pardon me ushi kawa man.
And it was a humorous you know, an armbone, basically
fragment discovered in the nineteen fifties in Japan, and it
was generally thought as like the country's oldest human remains,
from about twenty thousand years ago. Not that long, but
twenty thousand years it's a long time for human remains, right,
(35:25):
But apparently it's been looked at more closely, and apparently
it is not from a human at all. It is
actually from a brown bear, not a human. Now that
what this has to do with sasquatch stuff. I think
it's pretty obvious, but in case it's not. People find
bones in the woods occasionally, not very often because the
(35:46):
woods is actually a pretty efficient recycler of these sort
of things. But every few years at least I hear something.
I get somebody's sending me this picture of this, mostly
decomposed was armbone with what looks like a hand on it,
with fingers covered in hair. And there's it's a big
(36:06):
foot thing. I've seen I think three of these in
the last two or three years. It happens all the time,
and the media usually picks it up or it's on
some TV show or something like that because it's sensational,
and basically every single time it turns out to be
a black bear of some sort. Doctor Meldrim actually included
a number of slides about this very topic and his
(36:28):
black bear presentation that he was doing just a few
years ago. So see what happens to people They hunt
black bears right for food or pelts or sport or
whatever they're doing, and generally speaking, they take the claws.
The claws are very often a trophy when you're hunting
black bear, and that if you take the claws off,
it turns out that the rest of the hand of
(36:49):
the bear, the paw of the bear, looks remarkably human
like in structure, because you know, being mammals, they have
a very similar structure to their paws as we do
our hands. We're because you know, we're not exactly closer
related to black bears, but we're both mammals. And when
you take a look at the arm and where the
hand is and it's big, it's covered in hair, people
(37:11):
are obviously going to think sasquatch. But again, if you
remove the claws off of a black bear as a
trophy than what you have left is a very human
like thing, and this is a great example of it.
This was, you know, done by academics, and they're saying
as a human but no brown bear.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
You read the bit at the end where it links
to another article about a three thousand year old bone
onearthed from a cave in southeastern Alaska that was originally
thought to have been a bear, was genetically tested and
was found to be a human woman that shares cling
Itt genetics. No, I didn't the ancestor of cling It's yeah.
So at the very end of the article they linked
(37:49):
to that saying like, this is not the first time
that human and bear bones have been confused for each other,
you know, in archaeological settings. I did not read that.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
That's cool though. That's cool though. Yeah, so it goes
both ways.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
They are freakishly human like in some ways. They're anatomically
very similar. In fact, I think I told the story before.
But if you've ever seen a skinned black bear like
one that was poached, it looks maybe lying face down,
it looks like you're looking at a human body. It's
pretty unnerving.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
It is disturbing.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I never I'm not a hunter or anything like that,
but I've never really been around a bear that's been
skinned or anything. I found a couple of corpses out
in the woods from poachers and that sort of thing,
parts of bears from poachers, but I've never actually been
around something like that.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
So, yeah, the one that I saw was left by poachers,
like they had clearly shot and you know, skinned it
and just taken the pelt and the claws and bailed
and just left the thing there. And it looked like
a naked person laying face down. It was quite disturbing.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Well, you know, I think for me, the takeaway from
this particular article kind of is about how even established fossils,
you know, like things that we know what this is,
maybe they should be looked at again, you know, maybe
they And it kind of goes back to the Bigfoot thing,
because I think the last episode, or a couple episodes ago,
I was ranting about how I'm looking I'm always doing this,
I guess, ranting about how I'm looking at the givens
(39:10):
in Bigfoot and the thought about Bigfoot and wondering like
I wonder if those givens are actually true, you know,
and I think that the same can be true with
the fossils, you know, because everybody, whether we want to
or not, kind of accepts certain truths and we don't
question them. But I don't know, maybe it's good to
(39:30):
question what everybody agrees upon sometimes.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Oh there's no telling what's sitting in the repository of
certain museums that was just initially labeled as something that
was never given any further analysis or testing. I mean,
they just have to.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Be that a so Ovin thing. We just mentioned there
was a jawbone, but the Sovin line around since like
eighty four and we didn't know it.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Like the classic the Minterre at Skol piece missing down
at UCLA somewhere in their archives.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Oh yeah, yeah, we didn't ask Matt about when we
had them on the podcast last month.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Colin, Hello, Matt, what would you say to people who
doubt the veracity of that story?
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Your inferior, You're a nobody, You've never done anything, Shut
up and go away.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
I need to add that to the soundboard at some point.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
That's the best one.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yeah. So we're down to one more article here, and
this one is about one of our cousins. Here the Neanderthals.
The title, well, this one comes from a zmescience dot
com whatever that is. Haven't heard of that one. But
the title of the article is oldest Neanderthal weapon dates
back over seventy thousand years and his carved from a
bison legbone. So I think the big thing on this
(40:50):
one is that people were very very surprised that Neanderthals
did innovated in this sort of way.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Well, they thought only humans used animal bones to make
weapons from, Like they knew that Dennis Simons used stone tools,
and they figured, like you know, like that they might
have some stone they have stone weapons. They didn't until
this was discovered. They thought they did not use animal bones.
But they found it in a with a bunch of
like remains of like slaughtered goats and other prey items
(41:19):
that they'd be feeding on. And another thing that even
blew them away further was that it had they'd used
some kind of natural glue to fasten into the stick
that they bought that they bounded on to make the
spear point.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
So it's like a two part Yeah, the emerging picture
of Neanderthals, and I think my association probably Denis Ovans
et cetera, or very very early humans. The emerging picture
is that they're not this these brutish, dummy cavemen things
that you know, media is often portraying them as they
had advanced cognitive and technological capabilities. Basically, you know, they
(41:54):
were building stuff. They were you know, they were using
the glue as you said. I mean, I'd be hard
pressed to make a good glue if I had to,
you know, out of natural material. You know, bones though,
are an obvious I guess material to make tools out of,
and of course they did. That makes sense. But they
(42:14):
don't last. They don't last in the environment, which is
why we don't have very many, very much evidence of
them using it. Stones last for an awful long time.
I mean, there are stones on the planet that are
over a billion years old, right, So most of our
knowledge about what they what their technology would have been
from stones, et cetera, because they're the thing that lasts.
(42:35):
But wood and you know, natural fibers and bones in
this case, they eventually deteriorate and go away. So we
have very little evidence of how or what they use
or how they use them. But this is a great
example of that. To me, the key takeaway quote was
that it basically provided direct evidence that they independently invented
(42:58):
bone tip projectile weapons prior to modern humans arrival in Europe,
which would have been about forty five thousand years ago. Yeah,
and didn't copy them. And that's the takeaway there, like
they didn't copy humans. But man, when you think about that,
like if the model was like, oh, Neanderthals got their
technology from us, how arrogant, where you'd have.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
To wonder if like we talked about with the chimpanzees,
if that if from those two quote unquote independent inventions,
you could infer that the common ancestor of humans and
you know, whatever species of Homo gave rise to Homo
sapiens and homeboneyandertholensis, if that ancestor also fabricated you know,
bone tipped weapons.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Yeah, that would be Heidelbergaensts. I believe like the common
ancestor between humans and Neanderthals Homo heidelbergeninsts. And I'll say
it again. I saw doctor Meldrum's presentation at the Mountain
Hood event back in April, and he always touches it up,
you know, so I always I love sitting on a
doctor Meldrum's presentation because he adds the newest stuff that
he knows about too old presentations. It was so cool.
(44:02):
And the thing that really blew my socks off. And
doctor Meldrem's presentation was about Homo Heidelbergainsts. How in China
they have a fossil of Homo Heidelbergenstus that is nineteen
thousand years old. I believe less than twenty thousand years old. Heidelbergenstus. Man,
that is crazy. And Heidelbergainst's were not a grass aisle species.
(44:23):
They were pretty thick and burly, you know, and they
were I think likely hair covered. They're certainly much more
covered hair than we are, I think, or you know,
than most of us are. So that robust, probably largely
hair covered, rather archaic or primitive looking biped was walking
(44:43):
around just a little bit before we started living in cities.
That's insane. That just really drives the idea of relictomenoid's home. Man.
So it just really blew my socks off.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
As I said, Heidelbergainst this one that's probably the biggest
chakra of all the ones I've heard.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
So yeah, cool stuff. And if Heilbergensi's was making this
kind of stuff that would be pretty mind blowing too.
Now we don't see Sasquatches doing this sort of thing,
so that implies either the common ancestor way further back
or a different hand structure, because they wouldn't be able
to do that sort of stuff. Yeah, who knows is
don't need it. I guess you just don't need tools
when you're that big, because you have everything you need.
Speaker 5 (45:22):
Right, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff
and Bobo. We'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
That's the end. That's the end of our articles for
this particular episode here. Anything we want to bring up
before we disappear, Well, you.
Speaker 4 (45:42):
Did list to Bobo's story times that were in your
phone last week, and I did put it to the
members to give us which of those titles appealed to
them the most, and the title suggested was taking a
dump at Gimlins. So I don't know if we want
to try to leave that as a parting thought here
or not, but I just thought i'd throw it out.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Campfire story. Uh oh, that's not for over there.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
I'm interested in the who fixed your broken neck? John
of God like because that's a pretty intriguing title.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Oh yeah, yeah, way gather around.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
It's Bubo story, dude, He's going to see some things
that'll BLOWO my classic. In every scene he's lying, he's
going a kid, yill me high for you.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Once again, it's Bubo story.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
Any description of felonious or criminal activity is being told
here strictly for entertainment purposes, and is in no way
admission of guilt or even true for that matter.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
It was. It was really big swell, like super big.
It was definitely the biggest ever served in Mexico. It
was it was like twenty foot backs and I held
only one other guy went out, this guy Greg Russ.
He got the super couple of huge bonds and I
paddled into one and it just jacked up. It just went.
(47:05):
It was so fast and so thicking, so much water
came with the face like I couldn't penetrate down to
get in, and I wasn't. I think I wasn't paddling
hard enough either, but it just launched me and I
was in the lip like a like a five foot
thick lip pitched out like literally throughout like I mean
it throughout like twenty five feet in front of the wave,
and I was in it and it landed in like four
(47:26):
or five feet of water or something like that. That's
why I landed on my head. And I found out
a couple of years. I don't know, maybe I found
out like seven or eight years ago something like that.
That actually fractured my neck. But I didn't like not
like I didn't break it breaking. It was just a
compression fracture like a lot of people will get them
and don't don't you know you got something wrong, but
you don't know your necks broke. Anyways, I got pitched over,
(47:49):
landed on my head, got knocked out kind of, and
I was semi conscious but not really. And then I
got washed up onto the beach and these guys came down.
They grabbed me because I couldn't move. I couldn't move
my arms or legs. I was like like quad asplegic, basically,
like I couldn't I couldn't do anything. I remember I
was I could see the surface right above me, like
(48:09):
I was rolling around and I couldn't do anything. I
was just I was like, see this is it. I'm dead.
And I got I got washed up, and these guys
came down. They grabbed me and they put me on
my board like a stretcher and carried me up into
the little hotel that was there. And uh, this is
before they had electricity anything down there. It was like
it's pretty remote and rough conditions. There wasn't no no,
(48:30):
there was no one there hardly back then it was
it was empty. And so I was I was like,
oh my god, like I was just hurting, like I couldn't,
like I was in shock. I was. I swallowed some
water my you know, my lungs hurt, and I was
just like this is like, this is not good. This
is not good. Then after about five or six hours,
(48:53):
I was able to start moving, like my fingers started
coming back and everything started coming back. But it took
took out hours. I was able to They help me
get up and I was shuffling down to go use
the restroom, and these guys from Mintoino that I knew
a little bit, they came pulling in. They were driving
back from Brazil, and they picked up this guy John
(49:14):
of God, Like he can look at what on YouTube
he was on sixty minutes and all kinds of stuff.
He was like this a big time healer, like energy
killer like faith. He ended up getting caught like he's
controversial guy, but I'll just say this. When I was there,
he came up and they're like, what's going on by bah?
I was like, oh, man, I jacked myself. I can't
(49:35):
move like I couldn't like I couldn't raise my arms
at all, like it was coming back when it was
coming back really slow, and that it was obviously there
was some damn like real damage. Then I was trying
to figure out how I was going to get home,
and I was pretty stretched out about that, and so
I'm kind of like shuffling back heading back to my room.
There's a guy helped me walk and they go, yeah, well, hey,
(49:57):
this guy John Gotten. I had actually heard of him
a little bit. They said, yeah, he's here. We're driving
him back to California. He's going to give some seminars
up there. Then he's going around the country. And I
was like, oh, rad okay. I said sure whatever, And
he came up to me and he uh waved his
hands around me like he like took his hands and
he put him over my head and then didn't touch me.
(50:19):
He kept about an inch away or whatever, and waved
up back and forth. And then he put his hand
on my neck and my shoulders and he took each
arm they were just hanging to my sides, and he
lifted him up like to make a ninety degree angle
with my hands straight up from my shoulder, like horizonal
horizontal to the ground. And he did that. He flapped
(50:39):
my arm a couple like three times, like it was
like a like a you know, flapping a wing or something.
He did that three times to each arm. Then he
waved over me again. Like within like thirty seconds, I
was able to move like I was. I was fully back,
like I was not fully back. I mean I was,
I was. I was back. I was able to, you know,
move around, and my neck was still compact. Did because
(51:00):
when I left, I had gone to the doctor just
before I left, like maybe two months before I left.
I was sixty three and three quarters. When I got back,
I was six two in one quarter. I lost an
inch and a half. My spine got compressed and RUPs
for some discs, And I mean I was hurting still,
but yeah, like it wered like it was. It was
like it was like a miracle, It really was. And
(51:22):
then I was like, this guy's the real deal. This
is crazy. And then he got really big. He went
to America and he was going around the country and yeah,
so then he got caught on sixty minutes. So like
he was curing people, like pulling cancers out of people
and stuff like that. Like he'd like put his hand
up and like rip it out and there would be
blood and like he'd hold up like a it's supposed
to be a camp but it was like chicken hearts
and stuff, and he was like doing magicians stuff like
(51:44):
slight of hand out of his robe rose sleeves turned
out to be like a super creepies in prison. Now
that he's doing life or something.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Yeah, yeah, he's doing one hundred and eighteen years and
six months and fifteen days in prison.
Speaker 4 (51:59):
Well remember most universally effective medical remedy is the placebo.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
Yeah, but I didn't have any faith in the God
when he did it. I wasn't think He's going to
fix me. It just it just happened.
Speaker 4 (52:09):
You have definitely had a rough and temple life. What
do you think is the most injury prone of your
professions or hobbies, Like is surfing, logging, crab fishing.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
Living, skateboarding probably, oh really my most injury worst injuries, Yeah,
surfing and skating. That's wild.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
I would have assumed it would have been like logging
or crab fishing. So that's that's crazy that it was
like two things you did for fun.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
Well, no logging. I got the chainsaw on my knee
that that still hurts. And then I got I got
that Joe poke stick went through my leg and left
that gnarly pull my leg. I got that gnarly scar
from Then that's about it for the logging and then
fishing commercial fishing. I got a couple of concussions I got. Yeah,
I almost got killed a couple of times. I almost
got killed a couple of times doing that. That was
(52:57):
that got a little hectics sometimes, but full injuries. Scott See.
I got tore my hand up, I got some hooks
on the long liner sett in gear almost pulled me overboard,
tore my hand up. What else I have? Yeah, I
got hit in the head with a bell like a
when you pull up like you know those trawling nets.
You pull up a big, big net over the deck.
Then you go up and you grab the rope and
(53:18):
you pop it and the bottom of it was and
all the fish up on the deck. It's called a
bell that's like the big metal classic colds the neck
and you pull it was like a little you can
pull it to pop it, and we popped it. We
were in really rough season. I was trying to like
the load didn't drop exactly what we're supposed to, didn't
drop fast enough, and the boat was rocking so bad,
like some of it got dumped up on other parts
(53:40):
of the deck where it wasn't supposed to be and
it's like, oh man, I was trying to run around
like take care of that. And then the bell, it's like,
I don't know how much it weighs. It's probably like
a fifteen pounds, twenty pounds. It's at least twenty pounds
piece of metal like flying around the deck at the
bottom was at the bottom of the rope of the
net and it just clocked me across the head and
knocked me out. That that was a bad one. And
then the one where the crab block where he broke
(54:02):
off for her pulling gear in a storm and the
crab block broke it flung up like it just spun
up super fast and smashed me in the face and
it broke a bunch of teeth, fractured my palate and
that was that was kind of a rough one.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, it's kind of a rough one, huh.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
And then I had my do It still bothers me
to this day a lot too. Is it was stupid,
but I used leaning on the rail and when you're
crab and like you got to reach over to the ground.
I was the the stick man whatever, the guy, you know,
the guy runs the block and I had the I
had the the hook pull you know whatever, like the
gaf thing and bully hook, and I just swoop him up,
(54:42):
then throw the line on the block and then the
block's out spinning metal wheel that pulls it up. You
put the rope in it. It pulls the pot up. Uh,
you're leaning over, so you lean against you you have
your legs wedged in next to the rail. And a
few of those boats, it was just they were like
right at where the at the top of the rail
and the gunnels up there. There was like a like
(55:03):
a flat edge on the bottom of the gunnel and
you kind of lock yourself in that. But if you
got rocked back too hard or like the pot jumped
up weird or something like that, like hit a like
if a you had a weight in the line that
was too close to the pot or something, and it
would pop the pot loose like and fly up at you.
(55:23):
I had that happen a few times. It just sor
or we took like a weird wave like to roll
the boat back, and my kneecast would get stuck and
my whole body that would pull back and I actually
tore them like the meniscus whenever that stuff is around
bolt my knees. So that still causes a lot of pain,
like walking and stuff like hiking, stuff like that, going uphill.
Speaker 4 (55:43):
Mostly, you are definitely a rough and tumble character. I
can't speak for Cliff, but I'm going to assume from
my own experience that, you know, having had no injuries
as a rock guitarist, I doubt Cliff has any jazz
guitar playing related injuries. Cramps in my hand, yeah, I
mean I have carried an eight x ten base cab
up the steps at Smith's Oldbar in Atlanta, which if
(56:05):
any listeners have been there, you know how tough that is.
What about as a professional educator, just my pride, it's
my pocketbook. Yeah, none of my professions have led to
any injuries, So I just I thought i'd ask Cliff
if you have any professional educator related meniscus tears.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
No, I mean little kids, you know, hitting me in
the wrong spot or something, or you know they I've
never been bit or anything by a kid because I
didn't teach those age levels. Really for the most part. No, no,
not really.
Speaker 4 (56:38):
We're soft, dude, compared to Bobo.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Oh yeah, Bobo was like calloused physically, emotionally, mentally, everything.
Like he has a protective shell around him because he's
been through so much.
Speaker 4 (56:50):
Agreed, I've got some good injuries party in that would
be the extent of my pain and suffering. Well, you know,
we have a members episode. Maybe we bring those up
on the members episode. Sure first, or I just had
to get another I tried real hard in this week's
episode to get a Bobo storytub, the one that came
(57:10):
out yesterday, to get a second one. So I'm glad
we got one here. Listeners love it all right?
Speaker 2 (57:15):
Well, had the members episode, And if you are not
a member and you want to be a member, it's
just five bucks a month, man. Five bucks a month
will get you one complete extra episode every single week.
We do a complete members episode just for members every
single week. So if you like big Foot and Beyond
you can't get enough Cliff, Bobo and Matt, consider being
a member five bucks a month. And also you get
(57:36):
this episode, this regular public episode that we do with
zero commercials, and that in itself is probably worth five
bucks because you know, advertising is great, it pays our
bills and stuff. But at the same time, who wants
to listen to it? Why not listen to an uninterrupted
Bobo stories and that sort of thing. And also, you know,
occasionally when things happen or you know, I find prints
(57:57):
in the woods, or there's some sort of cross between
any of our lives and the podcast and there's photographs
or videos. We post those things to our members and
our members only, So maybe you want to be a member.
Check it out. It's five bucks. Follow that link that
the Lovely and Talented map Proud will post.
Speaker 3 (58:14):
Yeap where you give you the yearly rate. I just
had to sign back up again.
Speaker 2 (58:19):
Oh yeah, yeah, there's something you need to know about,
but but we'll talk about that in the members thing too, though,
So all right.
Speaker 3 (58:25):
Okay, folks, Well thanks for joining us and we appreciate it.
Hit like, hit share and give us a little five
star review. It helps us so do people can find
the show. And until next week, y'all keep it squatchy.
Speaker 5 (58:43):
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
us on iTunes, Subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you
get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram
at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on
Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,
(59:03):
and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag
Bigfoot and Beyond.
Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys
are your favorites, so like Shay Subscribe and raid.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It five star shot and.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Righteous on Quesh today and listening, oh watching lim always
keep its watching.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Fay Bobo Club. Hey, it's good to have you.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
It's good to be here.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I bet it is, I bet it is. It's great
to be here. Great to be here. That's a nod
yamarone right there.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Yeah, signed the place moving to a new place in
Blue legg next month.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh, it's happening. It's happening, so it's official.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Man, it is the end of an era, I think
for I mean, I met you in two thousand and
four or five or something. Weren't you living in that
little shack on the beach where you're still living right
now at that point or no? Or had you not
moved there yet?
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah? I was. I was. Actually I had a place
in Arcada and here for like a couple of years
because the rent out here it was three hundred and
twenty five bucks and I split it with another guy,
so it was like whatever, like one hundred and seventy
a month to have a beach house. Then I moved
out of the Arcada house out here like in two
thousand for like full time.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Uh huh man. There's been quite a cast of characters
passing through there. I mean, I can remember I've spent
a lot of time at the house. I haven't been
there in years and years and years, so I have
no I had no idea how how good or bad
a shape it is and right now, but I've seen
it go through some definite iterations. I suppose I remember that.
(01:45):
Who was that one dude that lives in your laundry
room for a while, Oh roch Rotch of course, of course,
tell me about him.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
He was the original surfboard shapeer up here. He drew
my tattoos too. He made that surfboard, the board where
I have my dog bed that got the tattoo in
my arm of He drew all that, and he made
me some boards. He was He was a classic character,
but he's he was a little I mean, he lived
in a chicken coop, so he was a little bit off.
(02:13):
He was a genius, like total you know, foblo ingenius,
awesome artist, painter, and just a funny guy, like you know,
real real, real smart, intelligent and well read, but just
you know, he just couldn't really function too great in society.
But he he got a pneumonia and then had like
a massive heart attack, and he was living in that
(02:34):
chicken coop that released him. He had open heart surgery
and they were going to release him back in and dude,
there was standing eight inches of water in his chicken
coop and it would be flooded all winter, and he just
put down stacks of palates to walk around. I'm like, man,
I think it goes back into that chicken coop. He's
gonna die. He already had pneumonia, They're gonna put him
back in there. I was like, I you can just
move them with me for a while. Ended up being
(02:55):
like three and a half years or something. You just say,
I sent a little room in the laundry room. He
loved it. He was sitting there and drew and he'd
watch Monkey when I was gone.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, you know, I don't think i'd ever i'd ever
met him. I would just see evidence of his presence.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Oh there was a lot of evidence of that.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, that there is, that there is. I remember one
time I went to that house and you know your
living room right there, you know, you come into the
door and there's at the room with the couch and
then there's out of that side room. That was like
a maze.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah, I mean I.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Think you had exercise equipment and stacks of boxes and stuff.
And there was this stuffed animal sort of thing of
Cartman from South Park that was mostly covered with black
mold if I remember.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah, he was tied up on the wheelhouse of the
Crabwood I was on for a few years. Carton was
up there on top and then uh we had a
speaker that came out there and had a couple of
pre recordings on of Cartman, and uh, Jimbo would blast
like you know, Cartman cussing at people and stuff. So
would be at Cartmon on top of the wheelhouse cussing
(03:57):
at people. And then I just ended up at my
house one day and so it sat on the nattle
for a couple of years, but it was just so
disgusting I had to toss it.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So you had a robocartment, Yeah, oh, we have something
like that here, don't we prove it?
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Well cool, that's exciting, Bobo. I'm happy for you, and
I'm I'm super happy for you, and I'm even slightly
happier for Karita because I think it might be a
more suitable house for a woman of dignity.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yeah, we said we weren't going to move into an
old house. We're going to move into like a newer house.
But there was that one I said that there was
there was a possibly have a SaaS question. Walk up
to it on the outside of Blue Lake that was
in the woods. That was like a two bedroom, one bath,
and it was it's getting to read down. The guy's
a contractor. He's like, he does beautiful work. It would
be nice, but it was like we already had a
(04:48):
two bedroom, one bath and for a couple hundred bucks
less in town was a bigger, two story old Victorian
like three bedroom, two bath. It's way more like it's
we're separated. Like I can I can like talk and
like you know, I could, you know, make phone calls
and stuff. At night. I could go like be downstairs
and not be keeping like in this house. It's just
(05:09):
so you know, small and you know, noisy, like you
can hear noises all through it. That I'll be like,
you know, I'll have more freedom there.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah, I mean, you do live in a great place
and stuff, but you know it's time to move on
to a little bit better place. And yeah, keep Koreita happy.
Of course, she's an angel after all, and it'll be
better for you and the even been for the podcast.
It sounds like maybe a little bit less street noise. Yeah,
for sure, fewer people shrieking running down the street and
things like that.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
You know, so you're.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Getting a man cave.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, I'll have a man cave. Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Awesome, awesome, Well, good for you. Congratulations, Boba. I'm excited
about that for you.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Thank you, me too, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Well, we got some work to do.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, I got to answer some questions. You got questions
to answer, mister.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Today, a Q and a mat or is it a topical? Topical?
Oh all right, should we do that?
Speaker 3 (06:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
All right, well let's see. Let's open let me open
the email.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Yeah, we got the well, the first one we got
to the drumming Chimpanzees.
Speaker 4 (06:11):
I do love the subtitle that says step aside, Phil Collins,
These wild chimpanzees have remarkable rhythm with no drum kit insight,
as if like the go to reference for like power
drumming is Phil Collins.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
That's when I was a laughing at the SAT fire.
Was he had just retired like like two weeks before
that because he had multiple sclerosis.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
I like, Phil, I'm not distant Phil. I think I
think we should rename the drum Phil the drum Phil
with a pH in his honor. But still, it's just it.
I was like, that was an interesting choice of drummer.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah. Yeah, So they talk about how wild chimpanzees are
natural drummers and they tap out rhythms on their surroundings
like certain kinds of like tree trunks, and so there's
been a big collaboration with researchers all the world and
that they deliberately drum with timing, hitting tree trunks and
roots as they travel and who and it gave fientists
(07:09):
insight into the possible origins of the human musicality.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And of course this has a lot to do with
sasquatches as well, because of tree knocks in general, we
don't really to this day still know how sasquatches are
doing tree knocks. There's been observations of them, a very
small number of observations of sasquatches making these kinds of noise.
There's a couple that have them hitting tree trunks with
with other logs or sticks or something. There's a couple
(07:34):
of three or four of them clapping. There's also real
possibility that they're like hitting their chest like a gorilla
wood with a cupped hand, making that popping noise. They
might even be making these sounds with their mouth. But
the fact is they are making those noises, and that's
the point here. And one of the things that stood
out to me about this particular article is that it
seems that various populations of chimpanzees, very like localized chimpanzee populations,
(07:59):
do different kinds of patterns, implying some sort of cultural influence.
You see, humans think that culture is is something that
really isn't. Culture has just passed on knowledge from generation
to generation. At the end of the day, all like
ape species show culture. So do crows though, and humans
do as well. We're just a little odd in the
way we do things. Everything we do seems to be odd.
(08:21):
But yeah, the fact that local sasquatches might be using
different kinds of tree knocks, or different patterns of tree knocks,
or different techniques in general, based on their cultural knowledge,
like their knowledge that was passed on to them from you,
the adults or whatever as they were growing up. I
think that's of interest here. I think that's pretty neat.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Yeah, And some tribal members up in Washington State, Moneymaker
and I gave these native girls a ride from Tweets
over to the Muckleshoot Rez. They wanted to go visit
some boys over there or whatever. So we drove there
and we talked to the Buckleshoot girl. She saw all
kinds of stuff, and then her family was big and
(09:02):
like traditional ceremonies and stuff. And we went to the
casino and they came down and we met that Matt.
Now this was in like two thousand and four, so
it was like over twenty years ago, and they were
telling us. They were going into great detail about how
the Sasquatches when they do these drumming rhythm chants, that
the big foots would come out and would stomp outside
(09:26):
the sweat lodge area and they would they would pound
their feet to the to the music and get excited
and they would they would stomp their feet like in rhythm.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Hm. That's interesting. Yeah, if chimpanzees are doing this and
humans do this. That implies that suggests at least that
our last common ancestors some six million years ago were
probably doing this as well. And if that's the case,
this sort of behavior is at least possible in sasquatches right,
And the idea of bringing drums to the woods is
(09:58):
a pretty common motif in Bigfoot. Right. A lot of
researchers do that sort of stuff, and I don't think
it was it started with Henry Franzoni in that documentary
way back in the day. I think people were doing
it beforehand. It probably started with the native people drumming,
of course, you know centuries or you know, millennia ago,
but that might just tickle the sasquatch brain in a
nice way. It's like, oh, we kind of understand that, like,
(10:19):
there's something cool, there's something being crafted here. Is that's
not random noise and draw interest because the rhythm like this,
it predates probably early hominid behavior. And that also suggests,
which I think is super fascinating, that probably we don't know,
but probably most, if not all, human ancestors did something similar.
(10:42):
And I think that's cool. And I think that the
overlap of human behavior and sasquatch behavior to me is
of great interest. One of the things that stands out
this isn't drumming exactly, but when I was in Vietnam
on Find, you know, for when we're filming Finding Bigfoot,
I had the camping segment. So I was out in
the in the junk, backpacking, and I was running. Well,
(11:03):
I don't even know if like hooting and hollering and
you know, like wo whoops and stuff and knocks are
going to work on these I did it anyway. But
the response is when I whooped and stuff and whoo,
what I got back were humans that lived out in
the jungle. You know, there's like thirteen different ethno group
ethnic groups that live in the jungles of Vietnam are more.
(11:23):
And those humans to locate each other whoop and go whoo,
and they do it back. They're doing bigfoot behaviors, or
our sasquatch is doing human behaviors. It doesn't matter. They're
both doing the same behaviors. And this drumming thing is
another overlap between the human and sasquatch behavior that I
thought was pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Yeah, yep, classic.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Bobo. You need a robo bobo like bored right, in
front of you.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Yeah, the episode that we recorded as an Yeah, but
we we toured with the idea of like maybe you
should sell robo Bobo ringtones.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
What it sound like.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
It could be like you know when when people call,
they just get like a you know, their phone gives
them a notification like shoot it and they know, oh,
I've got a text or whatever, you know. And there
was a great suggestion from our member wood Burger James,
who said that we should have like a Bobo action
figure that makes those sounds that like you press a
(12:30):
button and it randomly calls up one of those sounds.
And I think that's a great idea.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Tickle me Robo Bobo.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I like it.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
They could have it bru you know, like the old
the old Hulk ones or you're like press his chest
and it's like old smash, Like you could have a
Bobo action figure. I think it would be awesome. And
he did suggest that not only would it be great
for Bobo fans, but that people could use it at
like gifting stations and maybe Sasquatches would start carrying them around.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
I like it.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
There would be no greater honor than if someone had
a sighting of a sasquatch and it was carrying a
Bobo action figure.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
Did you remember that one? Cliff Rock, the guy rosched
the artist of the surfboard out of my laundry room.
He made that stone cold Steve Austin all. He repainted
it all and made it me like one of flip
flops and no, yeah, little wig on it and stuff.
It was hilarious, so funny.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
No, I didn't know. I did not see that, but
I wish I had. My life will never be complete now, you.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
Know how they're like articulatable. We need one that you
can put into like various hot yoga poses, but so.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
That as in a can smell drop on there.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
That story was a big hit.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
By the way, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond
with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages.
You know, Bobes, squatching season is in full swing and
I can't help but know this. You're wear in that
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Speaker 2 (14:09):
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Speaker 4 (15:31):
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oral monoxidal and finasteride prescription required. See website for full details,
restrictions and important safety information. You know, I did think
in that article too. The other interesting thing is that
not only were there those regional differences that sort of suggest,
you know, cultural differences, but that they did detect individual
(15:52):
differences as well. So there's some variation at many levels,
but there's also some conformity to you know, the local culture,
so to speak. But to close point two, it is
interesting that we share that behavior with chimps, which does
imply that the common ancestor between humans and chimpanzees did
as well. So who knows how far back that goes.
But that was a pretty fascinating article in fascinating findings,
(16:14):
and it's you know, it's a bit different than we
knew that chimpanzees drummed or produced percussive sounds, but to
go into it deeper, like this is a new finding.
I did see some trolls on Meldrem's page because he
posted something similar. I think it was a different article,
but about these same findings. When people were like, well, uh,
everyone knows the chimpanzee's drum and it's like, oh, you guys,
(16:35):
missed the point. This isn't the discovery of drumming. It's
the discovery of like the fact that there are like
distinct meanings, so to speak, or at least distinct rhythms
that possibly have some sort of meanings locally regionally.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Yeah, I wonder how much overlaud. I wonder how much
it would mean the same thing, Like if you took
a West African champ and a East African champion they
heard each other's, like how much they understand.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
It'd be a fun experiment to do, I guess. But uh,
but you know, even moving one members of one population
to the other area to do that experiment would probably
change the experiment quite a bit, I think, so, I'm
not sure they'd be able to I guess they probably
do recordings of it and see what happens.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yeah, yeah, they could. I'm sure they'll figure something out.
They'll try it.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I'm sure I have often won. I mean we've all wondered.
I remember having conversations with you out in the woods,
but like about vocalizations or knocks, like if they if
those are regionally and culturally therefore culturally dependent like that,
In other words, do do sasquatches have accents kind of
and can and how how clear are the meanings from
(17:42):
like east to west? You know, you take a sasquatch
call from Ohio, like the Ohio how you do it
in California. We know it works because it's been done,
but we have no idea what it means, of course,
and maybe it's just confusing to the Californian listener, just
like Californians are confusing too many other people parts of
the country, you know, like a cultural difference.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, if.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
That's the article we started with, it makes sense to
go just to the next one, which is on the
Science dot org.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
One. I'm just going to say that I got.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
That's one I'm on, yeah, yeah, And the title is
Versatile use of Chimpanzee call combinations promotes meaning expansion. And
the gist here is that these scientists went out and
recorded over four thousand vocalizations from fifty three wild chimpanzees
across three communities in Africa, right, And what they noticed
(18:35):
is that they were combining calls or vocalizations of the way,
they were combining them to change or augment the meaning
of those calls. So they noticed basically imagine a chimpanzee
making a sound, and that sound might mean mean something,
but a chimpanzee making two different sounds means something different
(19:00):
then that single one does.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
So it's like basically using two words together. And they
identified sixteen different they call them buy grams, two words
put together by grams, right, and they show that these
things that the chimpanzees employ four mechanisms that they thought
were only used by humans. And there's fancy names for them,
(19:25):
but basically the ones called non compositional idioms. Idioms of course,
are English things that like they're like metaphoric speech basically,
and in this case, non compositional idioms are call combinations
that give entirely new meanings, right, entirely new meanings. So again,
it's like using two words together, that the meaning of
(19:47):
the two words together is completely different than the other,
than the than the root words that you use the
initial two.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Right.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
The second thing that they found that chimpanzees are doing
that again they only thought humans did, is the fancy
word is compositional with modification, and what that means that
it combines that adjusts the clarity or the meaning of
these two calls or as individual sounds right, and so
the next one. The third thing is called compositional with addition,
(20:17):
which is basically simply adding new combinations like another simple
additive combination. So the two words for lack of better
the two sounds that the chimpanzee are making, just adds
the second one to the first one, which makes a
lot of sense. And the last one was order sensitive effects,
which means that the sounds, the calls, the order in
(20:39):
which they're produced changes the meaning itself. And this is
brand new behavior that's been observed in chimpanzees, and it's
now has been documented, and again it just breaks down
that barrier between humans and our closest relatives, the chimpanzees.
We have a lot more in common with our ap
cousins than from my experience, the vast majority of people
(21:03):
would be comfortable with. I think it's cool. I'm perfectly
comfortable knowing that I'm an ape, and I love these
reminders of breaking down the barriers. Humans are very odd
and very special in a lot of ways, but we're
not quite as special as a lot of people would
like to think. A lot of our behaviors can be
explained by looking at the apes, and this is just
(21:23):
another example of it.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
Yeah. Yeah, So what they're talking about is like they
might have they'll do like the chimpanzee hooting, they'll do
a pant like and then a who like pant who
or a pant huff. They'll combine the different one before
the other, or vice versa will have different meanings.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, and you know, the combination of these sounds is huge.
It's huge, right for the implications of human evolution and
all this other the things that make us humans, the
things that we'd like to hear about ourselves, like everybody does,
and we like to hear about humans. And so the
presence of this like combinational you know, mechanisms, I guess
(22:05):
in chimpanzee calls kind of suggests that the found like
the foundation of language and syntax existed in our last
common ancestor again six or seven million years ago. Syntax,
by the way, is an element of language that that
it's the combination, it's it's it's the combination of words
(22:26):
or phrases in a language. You know, it's basically the
order of words and what that does to the meaning.
That's what syntax basically is, and that is what is
being shown here that the chimpanzees have this foundational level
for syntax. So this is almost certainly at the very
(22:47):
root of the evolution of language that humans have become
so adept at.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
That's what they're saying.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, and of course that what does that mean for sasquatches? Well,
I mean if sasquatches share it similar that the same
you know, common ancestor they have this too, so and
and of course with their gigantipithos scenes, that means the
common ancestor is much much further back, so who knows,
who knows, and maybe maybe they still have it, who knows,
(23:15):
But it does it says something about possible language use
for sasquatches. It suggests something that could be there. We
don't know that, but it could be there.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Yeah. What's funny is uh, well, just interesting is that
the most common sounds they use like they've they've the
sixteen they have, but the most common are pants, who
grunts and uh yeahs in grunts, So the three most
common that they use in combinations and what do you
hear in bigfoot reports like those are reported a lot
(23:50):
hooting and all of those sounds.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, and you know, one of the other takeaways from
this article is of course, that the sounds and the
combinations of sounds are used in various contexts, and those
contexts change and therefore the meanings change. And that's important because,
you know, one hundred years ago or something or even less,
you know, probably in the seventies and eighties or not
(24:14):
much earlier than that, people were still thinking that animals
and even even apes were mostly like reactionary automatrons in
a way, you know, like in the way that most
people think of insects or reptiles, that they just react
to their environment without without intent or pre planning or
thinking or anything like that. You know, I think one
(24:36):
hundred years ago, any naturalists or any anybody studying the
biology and apes in particular would be very surprised to
learn that that chimpanzees in this case have like vocal
systems that have a huge functional range that's very very
close to spoken language in a way, as opposed to
like just calling alarm calls or there's food here, or
(25:00):
you get out of my way, you jerk, or any
of those basic things that you know, all animals kind
of you know, any any vocal animal would be vocalizing
about so that that flexibility due to the context is
a huge thing to have learned. And you know, if
you study apes at all, you know it's kind of
(25:20):
a like, well, yeah, of course, you know apes are
amazing and extraordinarily intelligent and have complex social interactions and
everything like that. But what I find is most people
have no idea that apes are like that. I still
and it just drives me nuts. I still have people
who say to me, like, you think sasquatches are just
(25:40):
dumb apes. There's no such thing as a dumb ape. Anyway,
there's my soapbox again, So I'll get off of it,
although I could use the extra height.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, I can't wait. I mean just cracking it now.
So we'll see what comes out that, which should be
some pretty exciting things over the next several years out
of this study.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
Oh yeah, yeah, anything else before we.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Were you know. The other thing they have on there
is the the barks another uh and the panted scream
and just scream and panted grunt and panted. Who's those
are the those are the most common combined.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
It kind of sounded like your pigeon noise there for
a minute. Is that a chimpanzee or a pigeon it's
hard to tell.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Cross it's a pigeon. It's a chimpanzee imitating a pigeon.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
It serves the same function. It offers a warning and
is a call to recruitment.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Recument.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
I'll give you who dose on that joke?
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Oh that's close job.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah, I get taken over my spot man, stay in
your lane through it.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Yeah, I'm not I'm not great at the dad jokes.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Neither am. I clearly.
Speaker 5 (27:05):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Will be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Should we go to the next article?
Speaker 3 (27:18):
Show?
Speaker 4 (27:19):
Indeed?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
Do you want this one, Bobs? Or shall I take it?
Speaker 3 (27:23):
You can take it, okay?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Or do you want it?
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Prove it whatever? Cliff can have it?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Okay, all right, thanks, thanks for robo Bobo. All right, okay.
This one here comes out of Nature dot Com and
the title of the article is first ever skull from
Dennissovan reveals what ancient people looked like. Yeah, kind of,
I guess. But the real gist of this particular article
is that a few years ago, you may remember this,
(27:49):
I made a big deal out of it out of
the time at the time, rather a new human species
was thought to have been discovered in a place called
Harbin in China, and it was called dragon Man, And
of course it came out at the same time as
another human ancestor was discovered in Israel somewhere, I believe,
and that one didn't get all the attention. Dragon Man
(28:10):
got all the attention because of the sexy name. You know,
a dragon man that's very sexy, right, very very media worthy.
I suppose it's about one hundred and forty hundred and
fifty thousand years old, and it has a really prominent
brow ridge, and the brain's about the same size as
a human being and Neanderthal, the innertal has actually had
bigger brains than humans. But it's about about right in
(28:31):
there basically. And they thought it was a new species
homolonge I believe is what they called. It. Turns out
it's not a new species. Turns out it is a
known species, the Denisovans. So this is the first full
cranium of Homodenis Sovan that has been discovered. And they
figured out that it was denis Soovan not from DNA,
(28:52):
because the story the Denisovan is really entwined with the
DNA thing the species was discovered in a cave I
think in Russia. I think it was Russia. But I
might be chrying to but I think it was Russia. It
was discovered a small finger bone. Was it Russia? Okay? Good?
A small finger bone was discovered in this cave, and
(29:12):
they said, oh, this is almost certainly Neanderthals. So they
got they got a little piece of DNA out of there,
and they examined the DNA and it turns out that
it wasn't the DNA from a Neanderthal. It was an
unknown DNA that was closely related but different. So they said,
holy smokes, new species. Look at this, you know, which
is really cool for us bigfooters in that a species
was discovered using DNA. That's a big deal, right. So
(29:35):
that's how Denis ovens were discovered. And as time went on,
and this is I don't know how long ago. It
might be five years ago or I don't know, somewhere
in there, five eight years ago, I don't know, but
it turns out that there was a partial mandible in
a collection somewhere that turned out to be Homodenis ovens.
So we actually had another bone fragment fossilized bone fragment
(29:55):
from this species, but it wasn't recognized as a novel's
at that time. It was thought to be Neanderthals because
they're kind of similar in some ways.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
I thought there was a big move to reclassify that.
There's no such thing as Denisovan's alt in the anophol.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Well, I mean, there's there's lumpers and splitters in paleoanthropology,
so it's kind of like wherever you want to come
down on that one. I've talked to Meldrum a lot
about this, not not particularly Denisovans. Apparently those were actually
different than than Neanderthals, so I think that'd be a
hard sell. But in palaeoanthropology and actually in science in general,
I would say I think this would be true across
(30:30):
the academia. Of course, everybody wants their name on a
new species, so when they find some difference in a
skull or a twoth or whatever, they very often slap
a new name on there, when actually what might be
a better suit is just recognizing genetic diversity within a species.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Or phenotypic diversity. I mean that's a big denominator too,
is physical differences and I would say, just to Bobo's question, like,
we know that they're different because they do have distinct
genetic signatures. And there's one first generation hybrid with a
Neanderthal mother and a Denisovan father.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Oh that's right.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah, Well, in this particular case with the dragon man's
skull being identified as Denisovan, they didn't do it through DNA.
I guess they couldn't get DNA out of the skull anywhere,
but they did use basically some type it's a protein.
It might have been a similar protein study is what
they use on gigantipithicine teeth back in the day to
identify that they are in the Shivapithecus and orangutan line.
(31:29):
But they use proteins from calcified dental plaque on their
teeth and determined that the skull was actually Denisovan. So
we have a skull of the Denisovan. Very very interesting,
and of course Neanderthals interbred with human beings. I think
most people know that at this point Denisovans also did.
They also did that, and I don't I'm not really
(31:51):
up on the most recent research on it, but I
do remember reading that the Denisovan DNA has been found
in the people of Tibet and the high areas of
the Himalayas, and that's they think that those particular genes
give these modern a humans a larger lung capacity to
help them deal with the low oxygen content at the
altitudes they live at. So it's pretty cool stuff. Yeah,
(32:14):
And it was proteomics that they used in part. I mean,
it looks like they also extracted mitochondrial DNA, but they
also used proteomics, which is a comparative protein analysis, like
they did in Giganopithecus, which i've since that proteomics study
came out about Giganos in twenty nineteen. You know, you
use protein analysis when you can't really extract much DNA.
(32:36):
It serves as like a low resolution proxy for DNA.
But it always made me wonder, and I've asked around
about this and never really gotten a clear answer. But
couldn't we do that on hair? Since hair is predominantly
composed of protein, you know, keratin is protein based. Could
you do proteomics on sasquatch hair or purported sasquatch hair
(32:56):
if there's not enough you know, medula to extract DNA from. Yeah, Yeah,
I've thought the same thing, And actually I have brought
that up with Darby, and I believe, if I remember right,
he thought that was interesting. But you know, Darby's going
to be here next week, so or I don't know
next week from when I'm recording this, I don't know
when this episode is going to air, but I will
ask him about that and see if I can get
a cool answer from him. So but yeah, so now
(33:18):
we know a little bit about what Dennis Ovn's actually
looked like at the heavy brow ridge get a very
neanderthal esque, you know, very you know, kind of archaic
human esque sort of thing, you know, heavy brow ridge
and thick skull, big brained. I think that's pretty interesting.
So it gives a little bit of insight into like
harmon and brain evolution, and then their cognition maybe who knows,
(33:38):
who knows? I mean, the Denis Obin thing. I think.
I think it was around twenty ten that they surfaced
for the first time in our and we recognize them,
so we've got a lot to learn. They've they've only
been in our paradigm here for a decade or so.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Yeah, and then finding also expanded the known range pretty significantly.
To a much broader range of Asia, extending from siber
area to northern China between roughly two hundred and seventeen
thousand and one hundred and six thousand years ago. So,
like we would posit for many of these fossil apes,
they had much larger expanse in space and probably a
(34:12):
much larger expanse in time that we just don't have
confirmed through other findings. Yet sounds a lot like a
sasquatch to me. I think that's one of the keys
to their success living in small numbers than LEAs spread
across the continent or continents, is their adaptability. And I
think we'd find the same thing in a lot of hominins.
I think indeed, indeed indubitably.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
There you go. Should we go on to the next one, or.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Let's travel across Asia to Japan? The bar bolls, Oh yeah, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
So this one, this next article, we happen to get
it from Live science dot com. It talks about a
twenty thousand year old fossil that was thought to be
human in origin from Japan, but it turns out it's not.
There's a mistake here. It was not human at all.
It was called ushi kawa man.
Speaker 3 (35:02):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I don't read Japanese, well, so pardon me ushi kawa man.
And it was a humorous you know, an armbone, basically
fragment discovered in the nineteen fifties in Japan, and it
was generally thought as like the country's oldest human remains,
from about twenty thousand years ago. Not that long, but
twenty thousand years it's a long time for human remains, right,
(35:25):
But apparently it's been looked at more closely, and apparently
it is not from a human at all. It is
actually from a brown bear, not a human. Now that
what this has to do with sasquatch stuff. I think
it's pretty obvious, but in case it's not. People find
bones in the woods occasionally, not very often because the
(35:46):
woods is actually a pretty efficient recycler of these sort
of things. But every few years at least I hear something.
I get somebody's sending me this picture of this, mostly
decomposed was armbone with what looks like a hand on it,
with fingers covered in hair. And there's it's a big
(36:06):
foot thing. I've seen I think three of these in
the last two or three years. It happens all the time,
and the media usually picks it up or it's on
some TV show or something like that because it's sensational,
and basically every single time it turns out to be
a black bear of some sort. Doctor Meldrim actually included
a number of slides about this very topic and his
(36:28):
black bear presentation that he was doing just a few
years ago. So see what happens to people They hunt
black bears right for food or pelts or sport or
whatever they're doing, and generally speaking, they take the claws.
The claws are very often a trophy when you're hunting
black bear, and that if you take the claws off,
it turns out that the rest of the hand of
(36:49):
the bear, the paw of the bear, looks remarkably human
like in structure, because you know, being mammals, they have
a very similar structure to their paws as we do
our hands. We're because you know, we're not exactly closer
related to black bears, but we're both mammals. And when
you take a look at the arm and where the
hand is and it's big, it's covered in hair, people
(37:11):
are obviously going to think sasquatch. But again, if you
remove the claws off of a black bear as a
trophy than what you have left is a very human
like thing, and this is a great example of it.
This was, you know, done by academics, and they're saying
as a human but no brown bear.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
You read the bit at the end where it links
to another article about a three thousand year old bone
onearthed from a cave in southeastern Alaska that was originally
thought to have been a bear, was genetically tested and
was found to be a human woman that shares cling
Itt genetics. No, I didn't the ancestor of cling It's yeah.
So at the very end of the article they linked
(37:49):
to that saying like, this is not the first time
that human and bear bones have been confused for each other,
you know, in archaeological settings. I did not read that.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
That's cool though. That's cool though. Yeah, so it goes
both ways.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
They are freakishly human like in some ways. They're anatomically
very similar. In fact, I think I told the story before.
But if you've ever seen a skinned black bear like
one that was poached, it looks maybe lying face down,
it looks like you're looking at a human body. It's
pretty unnerving.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
It is disturbing.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I never I'm not a hunter or anything like that,
but I've never really been around a bear that's been
skinned or anything. I found a couple of corpses out
in the woods from poachers and that sort of thing,
parts of bears from poachers, but I've never actually been
around something like that.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
So, yeah, the one that I saw was left by poachers,
like they had clearly shot and you know, skinned it
and just taken the pelt and the claws and bailed
and just left the thing there. And it looked like
a naked person laying face down. It was quite disturbing.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Well, you know, I think for me, the takeaway from
this particular article kind of is about how even established fossils,
you know, like things that we know what this is,
maybe they should be looked at again, you know, maybe
they And it kind of goes back to the Bigfoot thing,
because I think the last episode, or a couple episodes ago,
I was ranting about how I'm looking I'm always doing this,
I guess, ranting about how I'm looking at the givens
(39:10):
in Bigfoot and the thought about Bigfoot and wondering like
I wonder if those givens are actually true, you know,
and I think that the same can be true with
the fossils, you know, because everybody, whether we want to
or not, kind of accepts certain truths and we don't
question them. But I don't know, maybe it's good to
(39:30):
question what everybody agrees upon sometimes.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Oh there's no telling what's sitting in the repository of
certain museums that was just initially labeled as something that
was never given any further analysis or testing. I mean,
they just have to.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Be that a so Ovin thing. We just mentioned there
was a jawbone, but the Sovin line around since like
eighty four and we didn't know it.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Like the classic the Minterre at Skol piece missing down
at UCLA somewhere in their archives.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Oh yeah, yeah, we didn't ask Matt about when we
had them on the podcast last month.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Colin, Hello, Matt, what would you say to people who
doubt the veracity of that story?
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Your inferior, You're a nobody, You've never done anything, Shut
up and go away.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
I love it.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
I need to add that to the soundboard at some point.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
That's the best one.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yeah. So we're down to one more article here, and
this one is about one of our cousins. Here the Neanderthals.
The title, well, this one comes from a zmescience dot
com whatever that is. Haven't heard of that one. But
the title of the article is oldest Neanderthal weapon dates
back over seventy thousand years and his carved from a
bison legbone. So I think the big thing on this
(40:50):
one is that people were very very surprised that Neanderthals
did innovated in this sort of way.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Well, they thought only humans used animal bones to make
weapons from, Like they knew that Dennis Simons used stone tools,
and they figured, like you know, like that they might
have some stone they have stone weapons. They didn't until
this was discovered. They thought they did not use animal bones.
But they found it in a with a bunch of
like remains of like slaughtered goats and other prey items
(41:19):
that they'd be feeding on. And another thing that even
blew them away further was that it had they'd used
some kind of natural glue to fasten into the stick
that they bought that they bounded on to make the
spear point.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
So it's like a two part Yeah, the emerging picture
of Neanderthals, and I think my association probably Denis Ovans
et cetera, or very very early humans. The emerging picture
is that they're not this these brutish, dummy cavemen things
that you know, media is often portraying them as they
had advanced cognitive and technological capabilities. Basically, you know, they
(41:54):
were building stuff. They were you know, they were using
the glue as you said. I mean, I'd be hard
pressed to make a good glue if I had to,
you know, out of natural material. You know, bones though,
are an obvious I guess material to make tools out of,
and of course they did. That makes sense. But they
(42:14):
don't last. They don't last in the environment, which is
why we don't have very many, very much evidence of
them using it. Stones last for an awful long time.
I mean, there are stones on the planet that are
over a billion years old, right, So most of our
knowledge about what they what their technology would have been
from stones, et cetera, because they're the thing that lasts.
(42:35):
But wood and you know, natural fibers and bones in
this case, they eventually deteriorate and go away. So we
have very little evidence of how or what they use
or how they use them. But this is a great
example of that. To me, the key takeaway quote was
that it basically provided direct evidence that they independently invented
(42:58):
bone tip projectile weapons prior to modern humans arrival in Europe,
which would have been about forty five thousand years ago. Yeah,
and didn't copy them. And that's the takeaway there, like
they didn't copy humans. But man, when you think about that,
like if the model was like, oh, Neanderthals got their
technology from us, how arrogant, where you'd have.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
To wonder if like we talked about with the chimpanzees,
if that if from those two quote unquote independent inventions,
you could infer that the common ancestor of humans and
you know, whatever species of Homo gave rise to Homo
sapiens and homeboneyandertholensis, if that ancestor also fabricated you know,
bone tipped weapons.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Yeah, that would be Heidelbergaensts. I believe like the common
ancestor between humans and Neanderthals Homo heidelbergeninsts. And I'll say
it again. I saw doctor Meldrum's presentation at the Mountain
Hood event back in April, and he always touches it up,
you know, so I always I love sitting on a
doctor Meldrum's presentation because he adds the newest stuff that
he knows about too old presentations. It was so cool.
(44:02):
And the thing that really blew my socks off. And
doctor Meldrem's presentation was about Homo Heidelbergainsts. How in China
they have a fossil of Homo Heidelbergenstus that is nineteen
thousand years old. I believe less than twenty thousand years old. Heidelbergenstus. Man,
that is crazy. And Heidelbergainst's were not a grass aisle species.
(44:23):
They were pretty thick and burly, you know, and they
were I think likely hair covered. They're certainly much more
covered hair than we are, I think, or you know,
than most of us are. So that robust, probably largely
hair covered, rather archaic or primitive looking biped was walking
(44:43):
around just a little bit before we started living in cities.
That's insane. That just really drives the idea of relictomenoid's home. Man.
So it just really blew my socks off.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
As I said, Heidelbergainst this one that's probably the biggest
chakra of all the ones I've heard.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
So yeah, cool stuff. And if Heilbergensi's was making this
kind of stuff that would be pretty mind blowing too.
Now we don't see Sasquatches doing this sort of thing,
so that implies either the common ancestor way further back
or a different hand structure, because they wouldn't be able
to do that sort of stuff. Yeah, who knows is
don't need it. I guess you just don't need tools
when you're that big, because you have everything you need.
Speaker 5 (45:22):
Right, stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff
and Bobo. We'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
That's the end. That's the end of our articles for
this particular episode here. Anything we want to bring up
before we disappear, Well, you.
Speaker 4 (45:42):
Did list to Bobo's story times that were in your
phone last week, and I did put it to the
members to give us which of those titles appealed to
them the most, and the title suggested was taking a
dump at Gimlins. So I don't know if we want
to try to leave that as a parting thought here
or not, but I just thought i'd throw it out.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Campfire story. Uh oh, that's not for over there.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
I'm interested in the who fixed your broken neck? John
of God like because that's a pretty intriguing title.
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Oh yeah, yeah, way gather around.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
It's Bubo story, dude, He's going to see some things
that'll BLOWO my classic. In every scene he's lying, he's
going a kid, yill me high for you.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
Once again, it's Bubo story.
Speaker 4 (46:37):
Any description of felonious or criminal activity is being told
here strictly for entertainment purposes, and is in no way
admission of guilt or even true for that matter.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
It was. It was really big swell, like super big.
It was definitely the biggest ever served in Mexico. It
was it was like twenty foot backs and I held
only one other guy went out, this guy Greg Russ.
He got the super couple of huge bonds and I
paddled into one and it just jacked up. It just went.
(47:05):
It was so fast and so thicking, so much water
came with the face like I couldn't penetrate down to
get in, and I wasn't. I think I wasn't paddling
hard enough either, but it just launched me and I
was in the lip like a like a five foot
thick lip pitched out like literally throughout like I mean
it throughout like twenty five feet in front of the wave,
and I was in it and it landed in like four
(47:26):
or five feet of water or something like that. That's
why I landed on my head. And I found out
a couple of years. I don't know, maybe I found
out like seven or eight years ago something like that.
That actually fractured my neck. But I didn't like not
like I didn't break it breaking. It was just a
compression fracture like a lot of people will get them
and don't don't you know you got something wrong, but
you don't know your necks broke. Anyways, I got pitched over,
(47:49):
landed on my head, got knocked out kind of, and
I was semi conscious but not really. And then I
got washed up onto the beach and these guys came down.
They grabbed me because I couldn't move. I couldn't move
my arms or legs. I was like like quad asplegic, basically,
like I couldn't I couldn't do anything. I remember I
was I could see the surface right above me, like
(48:09):
I was rolling around and I couldn't do anything. I
was just I was like, see this is it. I'm dead.
And I got I got washed up, and these guys
came down. They grabbed me and they put me on
my board like a stretcher and carried me up into
the little hotel that was there. And uh, this is
before they had electricity anything down there. It was like
it's pretty remote and rough conditions. There wasn't no no,
(48:30):
there was no one there hardly back then it was
it was empty. And so I was I was like,
oh my god, like I was just hurting, like I couldn't,
like I was in shock. I was. I swallowed some
water my you know, my lungs hurt, and I was
just like this is like, this is not good. This
is not good. Then after about five or six hours,
(48:53):
I was able to start moving, like my fingers started
coming back and everything started coming back. But it took
took out hours. I was able to They help me
get up and I was shuffling down to go use
the restroom, and these guys from Mintoino that I knew
a little bit, they came pulling in. They were driving
back from Brazil, and they picked up this guy John
(49:14):
of God, Like he can look at what on YouTube
he was on sixty minutes and all kinds of stuff.
He was like this a big time healer, like energy
killer like faith. He ended up getting caught like he's
controversial guy, but I'll just say this. When I was there,
he came up and they're like, what's going on by bah?
I was like, oh, man, I jacked myself. I can't
(49:35):
move like I couldn't like I couldn't raise my arms
at all, like it was coming back when it was
coming back really slow, and that it was obviously there
was some damn like real damage. Then I was trying
to figure out how I was going to get home,
and I was pretty stretched out about that, and so
I'm kind of like shuffling back heading back to my room.
There's a guy helped me walk and they go, yeah, well, hey,
(49:57):
this guy John Gotten. I had actually heard of him
a little bit. They said, yeah, he's here. We're driving
him back to California. He's going to give some seminars
up there. Then he's going around the country. And I
was like, oh, rad okay. I said sure whatever, And
he came up to me and he uh waved his
hands around me like he like took his hands and
he put him over my head and then didn't touch me.
(50:19):
He kept about an inch away or whatever, and waved
up back and forth. And then he put his hand
on my neck and my shoulders and he took each
arm they were just hanging to my sides, and he
lifted him up like to make a ninety degree angle
with my hands straight up from my shoulder, like horizonal
horizontal to the ground. And he did that. He flapped
(50:39):
my arm a couple like three times, like it was
like a like a you know, flapping a wing or something.
He did that three times to each arm. Then he
waved over me again. Like within like thirty seconds, I
was able to move like I was. I was fully back,
like I was not fully back. I mean I was,
I was. I was back. I was able to, you know,
move around, and my neck was still compact. Did because
(51:00):
when I left, I had gone to the doctor just
before I left, like maybe two months before I left.
I was sixty three and three quarters. When I got back,
I was six two in one quarter. I lost an
inch and a half. My spine got compressed and RUPs
for some discs, And I mean I was hurting still,
but yeah, like it wered like it was. It was
like it was like a miracle, It really was. And
(51:22):
then I was like, this guy's the real deal. This
is crazy. And then he got really big. He went
to America and he was going around the country and yeah,
so then he got caught on sixty minutes. So like
he was curing people, like pulling cancers out of people
and stuff like that. Like he'd like put his hand
up and like rip it out and there would be
blood and like he'd hold up like a it's supposed
to be a camp but it was like chicken hearts
and stuff, and he was like doing magicians stuff like
(51:44):
slight of hand out of his robe rose sleeves turned
out to be like a super creepies in prison. Now
that he's doing life or something.
Speaker 2 (51:52):
Yeah, yeah, he's doing one hundred and eighteen years and
six months and fifteen days in prison.
Speaker 4 (51:59):
Well remember most universally effective medical remedy is the placebo.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
Yeah, but I didn't have any faith in the God
when he did it. I wasn't think He's going to
fix me. It just it just happened.
Speaker 4 (52:09):
You have definitely had a rough and temple life. What
do you think is the most injury prone of your
professions or hobbies, Like is surfing, logging, crab fishing.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
Living, skateboarding probably, oh really my most injury worst injuries, Yeah,
surfing and skating. That's wild.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
I would have assumed it would have been like logging
or crab fishing. So that's that's crazy that it was
like two things you did for fun.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
Well, no logging. I got the chainsaw on my knee
that that still hurts. And then I got I got
that Joe poke stick went through my leg and left
that gnarly pull my leg. I got that gnarly scar
from Then that's about it for the logging and then
fishing commercial fishing. I got a couple of concussions I got. Yeah,
I almost got killed a couple of times. I almost
got killed a couple of times doing that. That was
(52:57):
that got a little hectics sometimes, but full injuries. Scott See.
I got tore my hand up, I got some hooks
on the long liner sett in gear almost pulled me overboard,
tore my hand up. What else I have? Yeah, I
got hit in the head with a bell like a
when you pull up like you know those trawling nets.
You pull up a big, big net over the deck.
Then you go up and you grab the rope and
(53:18):
you pop it and the bottom of it was and
all the fish up on the deck. It's called a
bell that's like the big metal classic colds the neck
and you pull it was like a little you can
pull it to pop it, and we popped it. We
were in really rough season. I was trying to like
the load didn't drop exactly what we're supposed to, didn't
drop fast enough, and the boat was rocking so bad,
like some of it got dumped up on other parts
(53:40):
of the deck where it wasn't supposed to be and
it's like, oh man, I was trying to run around
like take care of that. And then the bell, it's like,
I don't know how much it weighs. It's probably like
a fifteen pounds, twenty pounds. It's at least twenty pounds
piece of metal like flying around the deck at the
bottom was at the bottom of the rope of the
net and it just clocked me across the head and
knocked me out. That that was a bad one. And
then the one where the crab block where he broke
(54:02):
off for her pulling gear in a storm and the
crab block broke it flung up like it just spun
up super fast and smashed me in the face and
it broke a bunch of teeth, fractured my palate and
that was that was kind of a rough one.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, it's kind of a rough one, huh.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
And then I had my do It still bothers me
to this day a lot too. Is it was stupid,
but I used leaning on the rail and when you're
crab and like you got to reach over to the ground.
I was the the stick man whatever, the guy, you know,
the guy runs the block and I had the I
had the the hook pull you know whatever, like the
gaf thing and bully hook, and I just swoop him up,
(54:42):
then throw the line on the block and then the
block's out spinning metal wheel that pulls it up. You
put the rope in it. It pulls the pot up. Uh,
you're leaning over, so you lean against you you have
your legs wedged in next to the rail. And a
few of those boats, it was just they were like
right at where the at the top of the rail
and the gunnels up there. There was like a like
(55:03):
a flat edge on the bottom of the gunnel and
you kind of lock yourself in that. But if you
got rocked back too hard or like the pot jumped
up weird or something like that, like hit a like
if a you had a weight in the line that
was too close to the pot or something, and it
would pop the pot loose like and fly up at you.
(55:23):
I had that happen a few times. It just sor
or we took like a weird wave like to roll
the boat back, and my kneecast would get stuck and
my whole body that would pull back and I actually
tore them like the meniscus whenever that stuff is around
bolt my knees. So that still causes a lot of pain,
like walking and stuff like hiking, stuff like that, going uphill.
Speaker 4 (55:43):
Mostly, you are definitely a rough and tumble character. I
can't speak for Cliff, but I'm going to assume from
my own experience that, you know, having had no injuries
as a rock guitarist, I doubt Cliff has any jazz
guitar playing related injuries. Cramps in my hand, yeah, I
mean I have carried an eight x ten base cab
up the steps at Smith's Oldbar in Atlanta, which if
(56:05):
any listeners have been there, you know how tough that is.
What about as a professional educator, just my pride, it's
my pocketbook. Yeah, none of my professions have led to
any injuries, So I just I thought i'd ask Cliff
if you have any professional educator related meniscus tears.
Speaker 2 (56:26):
No, I mean little kids, you know, hitting me in
the wrong spot or something, or you know they I've
never been bit or anything by a kid because I
didn't teach those age levels. Really for the most part. No, no,
not really.
Speaker 4 (56:38):
We're soft, dude, compared to Bobo.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Oh yeah, Bobo was like calloused physically, emotionally, mentally, everything.
Like he has a protective shell around him because he's
been through so much.
Speaker 4 (56:50):
Agreed, I've got some good injuries party in that would
be the extent of my pain and suffering. Well, you know,
we have a members episode. Maybe we bring those up
on the members episode. Sure first, or I just had
to get another I tried real hard in this week's
episode to get a Bobo storytub, the one that came
(57:10):
out yesterday, to get a second one. So I'm glad
we got one here. Listeners love it all right?
Speaker 2 (57:15):
Well, had the members episode, And if you are not
a member and you want to be a member, it's
just five bucks a month, man. Five bucks a month
will get you one complete extra episode every single week.
We do a complete members episode just for members every
single week. So if you like big Foot and Beyond
you can't get enough Cliff, Bobo and Matt, consider being
a member five bucks a month. And also you get
(57:36):
this episode, this regular public episode that we do with
zero commercials, and that in itself is probably worth five
bucks because you know, advertising is great, it pays our
bills and stuff. But at the same time, who wants
to listen to it? Why not listen to an uninterrupted
Bobo stories and that sort of thing. And also, you know,
occasionally when things happen or you know, I find prints
(57:57):
in the woods, or there's some sort of cross between
any of our lives and the podcast and there's photographs
or videos. We post those things to our members and
our members only, So maybe you want to be a member.
Check it out. It's five bucks. Follow that link that
the Lovely and Talented map Proud will post.
Speaker 3 (58:14):
Yeap where you give you the yearly rate. I just
had to sign back up again.
Speaker 2 (58:19):
Oh yeah, yeah, there's something you need to know about,
but but we'll talk about that in the members thing too, though,
So all right.
Speaker 3 (58:25):
Okay, folks, Well thanks for joining us and we appreciate it.
Hit like, hit share and give us a little five
star review. It helps us so do people can find
the show. And until next week, y'all keep it squatchy.
Speaker 5 (58:43):
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
us on iTunes, Subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you
get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram
at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on
Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,
(59:03):
and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag
Bigfoot and Beyond.
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