Ep. 330 - Moneymaker Returns AGAIN!

Cliff Barackman and James "Bobo" Fay welcome BFRO founder and Finding Bigfoot co-star Matt Moneymaker back for the third time! Matt discusses recent anomalous light activity during sasquatch expeditions, a sighting of multiple sasquatches in Washington, a new trail camera photo from Missouri,  and much more! Check out the BFRO's website and official Facebook group. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Big Food and Beyond.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
With Cliff and Bobo.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
These guys are your favorites, so like to say subscribe
and rade it five star s and grates on Yesterday
and listening a watch lim always keep its watching. And
now you're hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bubo Fay. Hello everybody,

(00:31):
and welcome to Bigfo and Beyond. We're back, all of
us on this side of the microphone and all of
you on that side of your speakers. Usually at this
point Bobo and I catch up. I think we should
probably forgo that just to maximize our time with our guests.
One of our favorite favorite guests ever, Bobo, you want
to introduce him.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Sure do the one, the only, magnificent, supendous, awesome, not moneymaker.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Welcome back, Matt, Like this is I think the quickest
time we've done the turnaround with the same.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
I mean, we were just on a few months ago
with you, and we're so pleased you can come back.
As far as I'm concerned, you can be on every month.
I love having the air well.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
I have an interesting podcast story I was I usually
don't do podcasts, you guys, as one of the few
that I do but I did one upon the encouragement
of Caroline, who's the secretary for the BFR. She said, oh,
you got to do this one. This guy's pretty major
and he's got one of the biggest podcasts about ghosts,
and so I thought, oh, interesting, because I want to,

(01:28):
you know, talk to a ghost expert, asks them some
things about orbs because of the you know, the the
incidents that happened on a BFR expedition in the Sierras,
just like a couple of months ago. So after I
got on the podcast, the guy's saying he's thrilled to
talk to me, and he goes, this is the first
podcast of his show where they don't have to talk

(01:49):
about ghosts at all. They can talk about something completely different.
And I was like, oh damn, because I wanted to
ask you about ghost stuff. And then he's like, oh, okay,
all right, well you get asked me some stuff. And
I was asking him, telling him about the orb activity,
the ORB things that people observed on one of the
last bfroro trips in the Sierras, and he was saying, yeah,

(02:13):
some of that stuff sounds similar to what people have seen.
He hadn't seen orbs himself. But he says that is
occasionally part of what goes on in these haunted places.
And of course he had to bring up something that like,
if you were to talk about orbs and as because

(02:33):
I've done this myself on Reddit, you'll have like just
a parade of these know it alls who want to
jump up and say, oh, that's just an illusion created
by dust in front of the lens creating a refraction.
Da da da dah. And these just these dimwits don't realize,
you know, I have to correct them and say, no, no,

(02:54):
this isn't created by dust in front of the lens.
That's only if you're looking. You've seeing these things in
photographs or in videos. But people are seeing these balls
of light directly with their own eyes, so it's not
an illusion created by dust in front of a freaking lens.
There is no lens when people are seeing these, uh,

(03:16):
and so he but but then we talked about it
and yeah, it's it's fascinating and it's something that that
I know, I mean, I know you guys have seen,
have have dealt with orbs, seen orbs in the past, you.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Know, honestly, I never have, I never have.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Bubbo.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
I think has, but I never have.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
I remember you talking about, ohbas up on the go
road or or was that up there?

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Yeah, I've seen them up there one time. Then I've
seen that weird flashing. It was like when I was
with Cliff up in the tree tops, like seventy feet
up there was like a like a twenty or thirty
foot like square like box, like like it looked like
like the trees lit up all over like at the
same time. Like it was just like five flash, five

(04:01):
fast flashes in like less than two seconds, for like
or maybe three seconds. It was like just a burst
of flashes, but there was no like source of light.
It just was all over. And then saw that blue
like basketball sized door, which Charlie Thoms the Medison man,
said that that was the spirit of Bigfoot shoving as

(04:22):
a blue ball light. And then when we were filming
the show, we saw him in Oregon in the Klamate
tribe up there. Renee and I and Hammel and Dana,
we all gramps, we all saw it.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
I remember one time we were in British Columbia, Matt,
you were there too, that Bobo and Cindy Doson when
walking I think on that elevated railroad track and BC
somewhere you saw him there too, Bobo. I remember radioing
them in because you thought it was us with the
headlight and we're all like looking at each other saying, dude,
that's not us.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, that one bounced. It was like just bouncing. Well,
we thought it was weird because it was it looked
like a headlamp and it was all around you guys's camp,
and we're like, God, what's Cliff looking for because it
was like went down below like looked like below waly seat,
and then it went around and it went up over
like and then I was like, that thing's pretty. He
must be climbing up on top of the wall's van,
because while I had that van with the ladder on
the back, I thought we must have climbed up the ladder.

(05:09):
And then we were watching you walk down that path
we came on and then the path bent to the
left and you kept going straight and like we'd done
that because it was an old path that was the
wrong one, but we've done the same thing. We watched
in all these like just BlackBerry bushes and thickets and thorns,
and we get we like it was tearing up our
ring gear, and so we backed out and then we

(05:31):
took the correct and we ended up a couple hundred
hours up. We were a few hundred yards from you guys,
and we were watching it. I remember reading going, all right, Cliff,
just keep coming that way. Okay, Oh, you're going the
wrong way. You're in the thickets. Now you're gonna get
torn up. And then you like had even left camp yet.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, so stuff like that has happened, uh, not just
on the West coast, but like when I started talking
about it with the group, I had other people pointing out, like, yeah,
they've seen these in Wisconsin and few other Midwest states
and where else was it? I think in Iowa on

(06:06):
one of the Iowa expeditions. And they're most often, well
I shouldn't say most often. I mean they'll see them
like something like the size of somewhere between a baseball
and a golf ball, somewhere in that size range, or yeah, baseball,
golf ball somewhere around there, just kind of bobbing around

(06:27):
among very often, like around the tree tops and moving
down and kind of swooping down and moving around. And
the way that describing it is I almost imagine kind
of a bug just kind of floating around and going
all over the place. And then there's the ones that
they'll see kind of holding still near the ground, and

(06:47):
those are the ones that will be kind of different colors.
But what was interesting in the last Sierra's trip was
they said there was bigfoots up there and they saw
the glowing eyes and then they saw these orbs, and
they said they were very distinct in what the two
different things looked like, because the glowing eyes are very dim,
but these orbs were brighter. And at one point Josh

(07:10):
Grohlman and a couple of other people were looking like
because they it was on a road and there was
two or three people with firms looking at this thing,
and it would have been about fifty yards away, clearly
on the road, and there was no heat signatures there
at all, so even the ball of light did not

(07:32):
emit any heat. It was like a cool ball of light,
and it was like moving back and forth. And then
he said what Drollman said tripped about that it started
kind of pulsating, slowly pulsating, getting brighter and dimmer and
brighter and dimmer, And of course that's not something a
headlamp can do. Because when you hear the story, you think, oh,

(07:53):
it might've been somebody with a headlamp down the road.
Well that was the first thing that jumped to their
mind when they first saw it, and they started radioing
and finding out where people were, and nobody was anywhere
near it. And then they're looking through their therms and
there's like, there's no living thing over there, there's not
any hot object. And it was just that so many,

(08:15):
so many different people on that trip, including people who
had formerly thought there was nothing to the ORB thing,
they got to see them and were highly impressed. And
this was, you know, the second not you know, this
was not the first place. I mean, there's been another
place in this year we thought was like orb City

(08:36):
up in Stanislas National Forest. But this new place, it
was like two counties away in the series where there
was just as much ORB action again in the same woods.
And people have asked, they say, well, when you're saying
there can that they seem to be connected with bigfoots,
like are they seeing orbs and bigfoots at the same time?

(08:59):
And I always have to clarify It's like, no, they're not.
It's not like they're seeing a bigfoot and then an
orb following it or vice versa. They're just seeing orbs
in the woods where they also see bigfoots, and the
orbs will be sometimes down in the ground, and sometimes
they go they go up above the trees and kind
of arc above the trees, do a big arc and

(09:20):
come down and they're they're definitely not fireflies, uh. And
most often the color they're the two most frequent colors
are kind of like a whitish bluish or bluish white.
And then they'll see red ones like kind of closer
to the ground. Sometimes they'll see more than one at

(09:40):
a time, and most often they're seeing just one. And
if there's a behavioral thing that you can deduce from it,
at least from what people have described in both places.
But the behavior because well, the bigfoots like as soon
as like they're in they're usually people just spot them

(10:00):
kind of looking around, looking in their direction and then
turning around and leaving. Like the bigfoots like get out
of the way and try to stay out of you,
even in total darkness. They're trying. It's as if they
think they can maybe still be spotted. They'll go out
of the way, and it's almost as if the orbs
do not feel The Bigfoots feel vulnerable, but the orbs

(10:23):
do not. So the orbs are showing themselves kind of
like not worried that they're going to get gunned down.
But the Bigfoots are always behaving as though they as
if they think they could be shot at and they
are vulnerable. So if you had to speculate, like what
is the relationship between these balls of light and the bigfoots,

(10:48):
if there is one, it could be simply that the
balls of light are because they seem to have I mean,
that was one thing in the last trip. They said, Yeah,
these things are moving around with a purpose. They they're
not just kind of random little balls of energy flying around.
They're moving around with a purpose. It's almost like they're
trying to attract the attention of these intruding humans and

(11:12):
almost like showing themselves to see what the humans are
gonna do. Oh and here another interesting thing. As soon
as the people would turn on one of their own lights,
like even a little light, the orbs would turn off.
The orbs would go black, So they would only be
on when the people had no lights on, and they
would they would go out when the lights would people

(11:35):
would have like turn on a headlamp or something like that,
like or any color. So anyway, I find that I
find it very fascinating. It's a whole new wrinkle, uh
to this whole thing, but one we've we've been hearing
about here and there for a long time now.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
If there is a direct connection, like if one like say,
bigfoots are responsible for the presence of orbs, could we
do an experiment like say with the with flats and
and look at all the places where sasquatches have been
seen credibly and predict that there should be ORB sightings
in all of those places.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Well you could, But I mean I've been paying attention
to stuff coming into the flats for years and years now,
and I know that it's still very rare for people
to report orbs. I mean it's literally like it's more
I'm hearing about it more from people who go on

(12:29):
expeditions than straight up witnesses. And that maybe because the
people who just see orbs and don't have an inkling
that there's bigfoot activity in the same woods, or maybe
hear sounds but don't associate with bigfoots. The people seeing
orbs with no bigfoots are not going to report those
sidings to a bigfoot group because why would they, Why

(12:52):
would they have any reasons to think that there is
a connection. So that's one of the things people aren't
like seeing the orbs like bobbing around on the shoulder
of a big foot that's going down the road. But
on occasion it'll be a bigfoot report and the people say, oh,
by the way, we also saw these weird little lights

(13:13):
kind of bobbing through the trees at the same time.
And again it's like I could maybe I could think
of maybe a dozen of those over the years. It's
not very common, and and that's about the frequency of
It's also been on about a dozen BFRO expeditions where
people have noted orbs, And of course I don't take it,

(13:36):
you wouldn't take it seriously unless it's multiple people on
the trip saying they saw them as well.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, sure, because there are insects and things like that
that have biluminescence in them. I've seen those in the
different Pinchot National Forest, but they're very, very faint, and
they certainly are not what you're describing.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Yeah, they're not like baseball sized balls of light that
are kind of that are kind of floating around. But
it's one of the interesting exciting things about about this
whole subject in that there's a lot of unknowns here.
There's a lot of things that we don't understand, and
of course people can speculate as soon as I you know,

(14:16):
when I was on the Facebook group, as soon as
I brought up orbs, there was at least I remember
one guy, and I'm thinking there's probably other people who
think that immediately jumped to see I told you they
were paranormal beings and dah dah, da da da. Just
you know, I had to point out that, you know,
just because there's a paranormal thing in your vicinity like
an ORB, doesn't mean that you are a paranormal entity yourself.

(14:40):
And one does not follow the other. It could be
that these things are just in the same vicinity hanging around.
Who knows. Maybe they're they're the spirits of deceased Bigfoots.
I mean, who knows. But it doesn't automatically follow that
that that that Bigfoots are not flesh and blood beings
just because herbs are seen in their vicinity.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
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Speaker 1 (17:01):
The orbs themselves could be a product of the habitat
in some way.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Right, And then we have you know, we have organizers.
We have people in the group who don't like to
hear about talk about orbs. You know, we have an
organizer back east who doesn't even want people talking about
it on his expeditions any kind of like paranormalist stuff
because he thinks it's too woo And you know, I
told him, I said, listen, you know, just because it

(17:26):
sounds wo or unusual. If people are observing this stuff,
then we should talk about it, you know, we should
we should find out how many other people are seeing it,
because that's that's that mentality of well, it sounds kind
of crazy, so we shouldn't bring it up. That's what
kind of kept bigfoot research down for so many decades

(17:47):
because it sounded so folklore is to see these hairy
monsters that people were discouraged from talking about it. And
so it's like, now, no, if you see something weird,
if you see something, say something. But yeah, if you
see something weird on the drip, we want people to
tell us what they observed. And that's kind of important.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
And you have personally observed these things, I know because
you told me about them one time. Can you describe
what you observed directly?

Speaker 2 (18:18):
I was in the Sierras and I saw a very
big one, I mean up on the side what I
thought was moving along a trail, and I later in
the morning, when the sun came up, I realized it
was along the face of a big cliff where there
was no trail, and it looked like At first I
thought it was somebody carrying a lantern, like a flame lantern,

(18:41):
because it was kind of this flickering light. And I
watched a little further and I realized it was kind
of like a ball, like the shape, you know what
would have had to have been like the size of
a beach ball, and orange and kind of flickering, and
then it changed size, like it got smaller, and then

(19:06):
finally it just kind of fizzled out and disappeared. So
and that's consistent with what is called earthquake lights, which
if you look those up online you actually see photos
of them, these kind of orange balls of light that
are some like between basketball and beach ball size, and

(19:26):
they're called earthquake lights because they've been associated as being
seen just before earthquakes or just when there's unusual seismic activity,
but also in areas where there is no seismic activity,
like over peat bogs in Ireland. And it's this flickering
kind of round light which seen over these peat bogs

(19:50):
in Ireland, which gives rise to what we call the
jack O lantern, which is it's funny because you put
a candle inside a car out pumpkin and it creates
this kind of round globe flickering light that is very
similar in appearance. So yeah, jack O lanterns are based

(20:13):
on these orbs, those kind of orbs, But so anyway,
that was up in the Sierras, and it was in
the same general area of where these other kind of
orbs are seen that are closer to the ground, that
move with intention and can do like what Bubba described,
which is like it totally like all of a sudden,

(20:34):
everything around you is lit up for a few seconds,
but before you can even see where the source of
the light is coming from, the light just turns off.
But like suddenly you'll go from being totally dark to
like it's as bright as day all around you for
a few seconds, and like you're looking out of your
tent and you're thinking, you know, know what it is like

(20:57):
something with a huge light above you, But then you
look out and there's nothing out there. So there's that
type and then like actual orbs like bobbing around above
the trees, and what we heard. We have a really
good contact up there who works for forestry in the
fire division, because it's like when you're up in a

(21:20):
lot of parts of California in the National Forest, you're
seeing more fire suppression related personnal than you're seeing actual rangers.
And one of those guys comes like whenever there's some
bigfooters up in this particular area, he'll come around to
talk to them. And he's relayed how he has had

(21:40):
other campers approach him telling him about the orbs that
they saw, so which was fascinating to hear that that, like,
it's not just us, it's not just our people seeing
these things.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Yeah, it shouldn't be just you. If it's a real phenomenon.
More people should be reporting these things, right.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Right, So it was gratifying to hear that people were
reporting it to him. But it's kind of one of
those things that you know, like with bigfoot, I mean,
I don't know how much of it, you know, bigfoot
would still be just kind of a rumored thing. It
might still be just a rumored thing had the Patterson
footage not come around. It was that visual that kind

(22:20):
of anchored people's conception of what a bigfoot is. And
and so that may be kind of where we're at
with orbs such that like once at some point somebody
will get some really good video of these orbs and

(22:41):
when that comes out, then yeah, people are going to
be conscious about and conversant about that subject. But that
hasn't happened yet. Ironically, our people have like go out
with these thermal cameras because those are the ones that
are going to document bigfoots pretty well. And these thermal

(23:02):
cameras don't get the orbs at all, Like orbs are
invisible to thermal cameras.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
As anyone has anyone tried night vision, the green night
vision on these things yet.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
You would think, But remember the problem with with the
green night vision is you had to couple it with
you know, because people would have those those would call
many four teens, like the military Spec third gen, the
really good third generation ones you had. It was kind
of a pain in the ass to couple those up

(23:33):
with a video camera. You had to have an adapt
ring and it and then you justed just right. And
I think I am maybe the only one I know
that ever had the full rig to connect one of
those to a video camera. But you could use it
without the video camera and you could see stuff. But
it's like not, I don't I don't recall anybody every

(23:59):
scene like looking at the orbs through one of those.
But in theory it would work. In theory, what I mean,
because those military Spec night vision scopes caesium tube phosphor
based light amplification scopes, So even the tiniest little light,

(24:21):
I mean you've seen it, like you light up a
cigarette light or a half mile away, and it'll make
it like you'll see it real bright through one of
those scopes because it amplifies the light so much so
it should in theory, amplify any kind of Oh, like
one of the most bitchy things you could ever see
through one of those scopes is a bunch like a
field full of fireflies that's just so like a wicked

(24:45):
in through one of those scopes. And of course the
starry night sky, like you realize there's like a hundred
times more stars in the sky when you have one
of those scopes because they amplify light. But no, I
don't remember anybody seeing one with those scopes. But not
too many people have those. Now, of course people people
have they have thermal scopes, and that one of the

(25:07):
interest you know, funny things that's happened over the past
twenty years is thermal scopes used to be way more
expensive thermals than night vision scopes. I mean they are
like fuck ten nine thousand, fourteen thousand, and those military
spec night vision scopes. They're still around three or four
thousand dollars the many fourteens. But thermal scopes now are

(25:32):
come down so cheap. They're about a thousand bucks now
or at least hours the ones week itself. So the
point is more people have therms than have any kind
of night vision. But I'm encouraging people like organizers next
time in these when they go to these places that
have or of activity, to just bring a regular video camera.

(25:54):
And I you know, I was discouraging people to try
to get it with their smartphones because it was noted
that whenever people turned on any kind of a light,
then the orbs would stop. So and of course using
your phone to record something is going to create a light,
you know. And I mean you could turn it on,

(26:17):
get it recording, and then turn down your screen this
screen brightness to basically zero, but you're still turning on
a light in the p you know, at first. But
if you have what Robert Collyer, the California organizer, you know,
he's a cop, and so what he says is next
time he's going to have a body cam like a

(26:38):
police like. I mean, he'll buy his own. People'll have
like a police body camp and that should be able
to get the orbs.

Speaker 3 (26:45):
We're in Oregon. They didn't shup on thermal night vision camera,
regular camera, they didn't shop on anything, just the naked
eye only. Really, Yeah, Tylerler, I saw one in a
Minnesota with the front on the off whole family's property.
We saw it. It was bounced along above the telephone wires.
We thought, well, maybe this has something to do with that.

(27:07):
And then it flew off and it flew to the
ground and it flew up what like about a couple
hundred dards for us, and it shot in a big
arcing like trajectory and then came down like like a
rainbow shape and came down and dove into this BlackBerry
thinking right along the edge of the road where the
road really narrowed down, like you had to get you
had to walk pretty close to it. And I was like,

(27:28):
I hope that's not a big fit in there now,
because nothing we thought were gonna get growled out or something,
but nothing there was that was it. That just we
didn't see it anymore. There was no sound came out
of the bush. Nothing.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Wow. Yeah, And that's part of the problem of doing
I tried to do experiments to see what works and
what doesn't is you never know when the ORBS stuff
is going to happen. But at least again these couple
of locations in the Sierra, since it happened so much
more reliably. I mean, it was great because this this sect,
the one place is up in status loss and in another

(28:00):
place is like basically it's down closer to the Sequoias
and at that Saquoias area, that particular area, two years
in a row they've had bigfoot stuff and ORBS stuff
in that same particular area at that same time of year.
So that makes me helpful. I'm just like, oh, go

(28:21):
definitely go back next year to that same area and
just like bring a whole have people bring a whole
bunch of different optics and then just try to record
because oh yeah, here's one another contrast with the bigfood activity.
The big food activity doesn't happen very long. In other words,
they'll it's usually they'll see it bigfoot maybe for a second,

(28:42):
it's buy a tree, whatever, and then it moves away,
so it's not hanging around for a long time. The orbs,
by contrast, will remain visible for a lot longer. They'll
they'll you know, they'll stay there. They'll stick around as
if they're almost like trying to attract attention to themselves.
And so that's good. If they're going to stick around

(29:04):
and be visible longer than a bigfoot will, then they're
going to be easier in theory to get on camera
or at least try different kinds of optics to see
what type can actually record them. You know, you guys
know Josh Grohlman, so he it's funny because he was
on this last one and he got like a whole

(29:25):
face full of these things and he was saying, man,
he just like he totally didn't believe. He said he
had taken it with a grain of fall. He really
didn't didn't believe the orb stories before this happened, and
so it kind of turned his world upside down. To
see them. I really blew his mind. But that's that's
always gratifying. It is like when you're hearing it from

(29:47):
somebody who knew had been told about this kind of thing,
had blown it off, and then they begrudgingly had to
admit that, yeah, there's something to it.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
I love that's cool. That's cool. It's going to get
a little bit of beyond the Bigfoot and beyond. So
thank you for that update on the orbit situation. Stay
tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Will be right back after these messages. Well, you know,

(30:17):
to change the subject, hear just a little bit. I mean,
you do have the largest incoming information, the largest amount
of incoming information about recent sasquatch citing reports and everything
through the BFUR only been doing that for decades and decades.
There is no website that does it better. So what
can you tell us about some recent happenings as far
as bigfoots are concerned.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yes, well, I'm actually looking at the list on the
BFRs site of the reports that have been posted since
August first, and if I look at the bottom, the
one of the first ones that we put it was
really intrigued me because it was a signing by two
people that observed three bigfoots near the Pacific Crest Trail

(31:04):
up by Mount Rainier, kind of northeast of Mountaineer, in
this place called Government Meadow, which is I don't know
why it's called Government Meadow because it's just a big
alpine meadow. But the Pacific Crest trail goes right along
the edge of it, and there's this emergency cabin, this
cabin that was built emergency cabin for snowmobilers when they

(31:25):
would go up there. And so these people were approaching
this cabin not from along the trail, but from kind
of an odd angle from behind it, and they observed,
you know, would seem to be a big male and
then a little bit smaller female, and then a young
one on the back of the female. So that that's

(31:46):
like it doesn't happen very often that people because people
we have, you know, a few it's it's uncommon for
people to see two of them at the same time,
but really uncommon for people to see three, like you know,
a mama bear maybe mare, you know, just like so
that happened up there, and of course, to me, one
of the remarkable things about oh, by the way, that

(32:08):
was a daylight. But one of the remarkable things about
that report is how it tracks with so many other
reports near the Pacific Press Trail, you know, and it
could be miles apart, but as we you know, like
a road crossing signing that happens within like one hundred

(32:31):
yards of where the Pacific Crest Trail crosses like Highway
twelve above Packwood. That was another report we got, and
then this one was just you know, less than one
hundred feet away from Pacific Crest Trail. But that seems
to be a common thing all up and down the
Pacific Crest Trail in Washington, Oregon, and California. There's so

(32:54):
many signings, and that's of course consistent. The same thing
happens with the Continental Divide Trail and the Appalachian Trail
and the Florida Trail and the Buckeye Trail, all these
like trails, because one element of them is they go
through these trails follow these green spaces. So it's not

(33:17):
just kind of a trail that kind of goes among
houses and stuff like that. It's it's they they follow
green belts because they try to give you the experience
of kind of being in the woods and try to
stay as far away from civilization as possible. And of
course that's not easy to do in places like Ohio.

(33:40):
But even when you look an aerial photographs and you're looking, go, oh,
that's not that seems like it's going like in between
two neighborhoods. But then you look at the view from
the ground, the view from the you know, the trail itself,
you don't even you would never even know that you're
close to some houses because the trail looks like it's
going through woods, because just passing through kind of a

(34:01):
narrower green belt. Yeah, So all those trails were plotted,
and you know, they were established to kind of avoid
towns and avoid civilization. But obviously at some points they
cross roads. And what I've always thought is that the
key thing about that, the helpful thing about that, is

(34:26):
that those kind of through trails, at some points whell
there will be foot bridges. There will be places where
the trail crosses over a chasm or whatever on some
kind of that there'll be a little bridge where if
a bigfoot is generally following the path, the course of

(34:46):
the trail, where it would occur to a bigfoot that
instead of making the hillacious effort of dropping down into
this canyon and climbing up the other side, they could
just trot across the bridge late at night when there's
nobody there. So those bridges would be very good places
to set up concealed trail cameras because you could set

(35:11):
it up and if they're not concealed, then somebody might
take them, especially like a ranger. But I think those
are those places. I mean, so footbridges on those kind
of trails, and there's other places in the Midwest where
like railroad tracks, cross roads, and those would also be

(35:33):
you know, the railroad beds are a very good place
I think to set up trail cameras. But again it
has to be done in such a way where people
aren't going to notice the trail cameras. And it would
be especially helpful, if good to do, if there is
private property coming up to a railroad bed easement such

(35:54):
that you could put your trail camera on a tree,
and if, of course you'd still want to conceal it,
make it so you can't see it vers but having
on a tree on your own property that's looking across
the railroad bed such that if anything is walking, either
on the railroad tracks itself or the little like the
road that would be on either side of it, it

(36:17):
would be within view of the trail camera. And I've
been preaching that now for a long time, so I
thank you for letting me preach it on your show. Yeah,
the trail cameras that I think can be useful if
they're put out in the right places and done the
right way, and I don't think that's often enough. Oh

(36:37):
and that leads to me my other thing. In the
next couple of days, I think I'm going to be
releasing this trail camera image that was gotten recently in Missouri.
In fact, while I've been talking to you, I got
the I saw the message come in from the guy
who said he finally because I saw this photo, I

(36:58):
sent you guys the side by side send it out
to other BFR people. But I needed the guy to
send in a written report so I could start adding
the other visual elements to it. But it's not very clear.
This thing was about one hundred and fifty feet away.
The camera was on low resolution because he was just
this camera was just like sending. He set it up

(37:19):
to send out live images he could use. It's a
cellular trail camera, so with his app he could connect
to it and have it send a live shot of
a creek that he was monitoring it to see if
it was when it was flooding. So it wasn't put
out there for deer, and he was monitoring this creek
kind of from a little bit of a distance at

(37:42):
and the trigger because there was leaves blowing in the wind,
like maybe five to ten feet in front of the camera.
It kept triggering the camera. Because there's all these empty
photos of false triggers, which we call brush triggers, and
in one of them, here's this figure brown. I mean,

(38:03):
it looks like it looks like a squatch, and it
doesn't really jump out at you until you have it
side by side with the comparative photo of a guy
standing at the same spot, and then you realize how
much bigger this thing is. I mean, and it isn't
just a matter of it being taller, it's just all

(38:25):
around bigger, probably like in the range of eight feet tall.
And anyway, so I'm impressed by that. There will be
a lot of people who complain, like why is it
not clear? Why is a blurry? And of course people,
you know, they whine and it's not It's like the
people who complain, how is that clear? It's almost a

(38:48):
waste of time with some of them to explain why,
because they don't really care. They don't want to hear
the explanation. They just want to express their frustration that
they you know, but yeah, the explanation is like with
so many other bigfoot images gotten with a trail camera
or with a phone, the thing is in the distance.
So when you're showing the photo to somebody, you're not

(39:10):
showing the full wide angle picture. You're showing a zoomed
in kind of cropped image and enlargement which makes that
figure blurry. You know, if you're if you're enlarging a
little tiny figure in a photograph. So that's what's that's
why this thing is kind of blurry. But again, when

(39:31):
you compare it side by side of a guy setting
in that same spot, taken by that same camera, looking
in that same direction, it's obvious this thing is huge
compared to the person there. Uh. And that was in
a place called Poplar Bluff, Missouri, which is kind of
over on on the east side of the state, getting toward,

(39:55):
you know, in the general vicinity of the Mississippi Watershed.
So yeah, there's bigfoots out there too. And one of
the glorious things of taking reports in for so many
years it's getting to see how many different places in
the country where people see these things, and you don't
make that determination based on just one report. It's like

(40:18):
community you see a whole bunch of reports from a
particular part of a given state, you realize, okay, yeah,
this isn't These reports are kind of corroborating each other.
And here is another area you didn't think of before,
like this part of Iowa has some reports, and then
this part of eastern Missouri that's not really even in

(40:40):
the ozarks. And so then we had another report recently
that was from good To Okay, because you know, it's
funny this name. You know, the German philosopher Cliff and Bobo,
whose name is spelled g E t h e y. Yeah, okay,

(41:02):
so Germans pronounced it good to, good to, and you
know in America's I'm not sure how to pronounce a
g O E t h German philosopher, Okay, but in
America down there in Florida, they pronounced it go fee, yeah,
go fee State Forest in Florida where two people had

(41:26):
a road crossing siding of two bigfoots. And that report
was a really thorough investigation by doctor Bob Stateon. He
drove down there, met with the people photographed. It turns
out this where it crossed, right where it went over
to there was an abandoned railroad bed right there, and

(41:46):
there's he was able to find that we have four
or five other reports from the same general vicinity in Florida,
And even a few days after he submitted it to
me to approve it, I hadn't approved it yet, and
we get an email from a lady who lives a
few miles away who got a recording of some knocks.
So yeah, so stuff is happening there. But I realized

(42:08):
how to optimize for Facebook by not you know, I
realized one thing. I was shooting myself at the foot
by when I'm posting something adding too many images, too
many map images to the post. I love it, well,
it is, it looks nice, but it limits how much

(42:28):
a Facebook will circulate that because obviously it gets circulated
to people subscribe. But when you get in the Facebook
algorithm where they're just going to send it out to,
you know, it detects these geographic names. Because we said
it was twenty five miles west of Okalla and near
good the State Force. Well, the Facebook algorithm was sending

(42:51):
that report into the feeds of all kinds of people
around there. So previously the highest number of views report
on a Facebook post got on our website was one
from Virginia. It had like two hundred and seventy five
thousand views. Well, this one within a few days climbed
to over a million views, and I was just inundated

(43:16):
with all these people wanting to like, so many people
wanting to sign up and subscribe to the Facebook group.
So tons of people saw this report. And one of
the great one of the good things about that Facebook
is in that situation is people can't will share information
among each other. They'll they'll share it to like either

(43:37):
individuals or share it to everybody on their friends list,
so it can go viral in the way that it
properly goes viral, just by people sharing it. And that
one did and it got shared around. And the great
thing was to see all the other people in the
area who came forward who got it and we're talking

(43:58):
about them here sounds and seeing them all this other
corroborating information, and that's what's that's something that the website
by itself doesn't do. You know, people can share can
see a report on the BFR site and they can
share it with people, but it doesn't have the potential
to be viral and then bring in information that people

(44:19):
you know, put in as comments to the post, so
there was a whole and then so after a while,
people I think reading the post and looking at the
comments and going, wow, this is amazing because this isn't
just like something somebody made up, because there's all these
other people in the same area and describing the same
things and saying, oh, yeah, these things have been down
here for years. I saw one when I was a kid,

(44:40):
and YadA, YadA, YadA, and uh, it's it's great to
see that when when that happens, to have all the
corroborating information, and it shows something that we've known for
a long time, which is that most sightings do not
get reported. And I see that very starkly in a
situation like that post one report and there's all these

(45:02):
people popping up with their own signings in the comments
section of a Facebook post, but people who have never
sent their story to the BFRO. You know, I don't
know what the ratio is, but I'll tell you there's
a hell of a lot more that have not been
reported that our report is.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Bobo will be right back after these messages. I don't
know how many reports you have for say Washington and
Oregon combined, right, But at the NABC, you know, in
the museum there, we only really record signing reports from

(45:43):
Oregon and Washington, you know, really try to focus our
efforts to the local Sasquatch. It's something that we can
do something about because unlike you were, not like a
nationwide situation. You know, you have investigators all over the country.
You know, we don't do that. But in the last
six years of us being open, I think it's six
years this month, actually, I think we've recorded something like

(46:04):
one hundred, one hundred and fifty in between those two
numbers of eyewitness reports. Class A eyewitness reports. We don't
record footprints, we don't record sounds, things that go bump
in the night shadows, Class B stuff, in other words,
Class A observations of Sasquatches. Where there is no doubt
about one hundred hundred fifty And that's just in six years.

(46:24):
But that takes people coming into the museum and speaking
to us personally one on one, and I don't think
that if they wouldn't be offering this online. That takes efforts,
you know. But and just in Clackamas County alone, I
bet you we have probably twenty five thirty or more
just in the last six years, so I know most

(46:44):
people never ever share their story or one hundred percent
right on that.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Yeah, isn't that amazing? And at first, in one way
I feel frustrated, saying, darn it, how come more people?
You know, there is such a huge ratio maybe somewhere
between ten to fifty for every one that gets reported,
why don't those people come forward and make an effort?
But then I have to be honest with myself and think,

(47:09):
you know, if I wasn't that interested in the subject
and I saw a bigfoot, would I have taken the
effort to like get online and report it? You know,
I might not, or at least I might not do
it right away. I might like one day finally like
read other reports, say, you know, Darning, I should send
in my report to.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
Yeah, you know, we got a great report out of
ver near Washington just recently, and actually the guy played
like back in the seventies, he shot at the thing
in the whole nine. It was a great report, like
one of the better ones that we've gotten lately, at least,
and he did not volunteer that information. He was. He
went in the back, he did his thing, you know,
he looked around in the exhibit hall. He came out,
he did a little shopping. And it was actually Dave,

(47:49):
I think one of my employees that he was. They
were talking and the guy asked, Dave, so, have you
ever seen one of these things? Go now, Dave. Dave says, now,
I never really, I'd like to the other guys have
and that kind of thing. And Dad says, well, have
you seen one? He goes, oh, yeah, yeah, Oh, tell
me about it, and then he did. But if Dave
had not asked him specifically, he would have never volunteered that.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
I believe it. And it reminds me of questions that
like journalists will sometimes ask me, you know, they're so
far removed, and you can tell they don't think, they
think it's just pure folk when they say, so, what
do you think accounts for just the enduring fascination with
the subject, Like why why is this stuff just like

(48:34):
remains popular year after year after year. And I was
it's because people see them. Yeah they're real, Yeah, they're real.
People see them. And so many people in the Northwest
they know somebody who has seen one. So it's it's
the fact that people still continue to see them and
tell their friends and everything that that's kind of underlies

(48:58):
the interest in it. And if that didn't happen, there
wouldn't be interest in it. If people weren't seeing them
periodically in many different parts of the country, it just
it would fade away like a folklore story, kind of
like Choop a cabra, you know, and some of these

(49:19):
other figures that have kind of popped up and gone
away and Bigfoot. You know, they say, what's different about
big But why is that particular thing? Like, Yeah, because
they're real and people see them and they talk about it,
and you know, that's why. It's because it's not just
kind of a folklore concept, even though it's exploited in

(49:40):
many ways, but at its core, there's some things. You know,
there's some things around that keep popping up and making
themselves known to observers who were not expecting it.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Yeah, the most real it's obvious that they're real animals,
and that's why the legend, if you want to call it,
that continues. It's just so obvious. It's ridiculous to me.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Yeah, So I want to ask you whenever I romanticize
in my mind about Oregon. The place is in Oregon
that I would love to check out, and I've never
had an opportunity. Are these places I've heard about in
eastern Oregon where I've heard people just talk about, Oh
my God, there's these places in eastern Oregon that are

(50:25):
just so spectacular and amazing, and there's like nobody out there.
And the closest I ever got was driving down from
one of those last episodes we did right I drove
my Landrover LR III. I had it up there, and

(50:45):
then I drove it all the way back, and when
I got down to Bend, Oregon, I took one of
those roads and headed due east from Bend to connect
with the very beginning of the three ninety five. So
you know three ninety five that goes by Mammoth Mountain
kind of the eastern part of California. Three ninety five

(51:08):
that goes up by Convict Lake and Bishop and Mammoth,
and then it goes up by Lake Tahoe and stuff. Well,
it goes all the way up in Oregon and it
ends up by Bed. You have to go way out
in the desert to get to the point where it
connects to some road you know where you know, te
bones into a highway that's running east west, and it's

(51:29):
so desolate out there that when I started going then
south on the three ninety five for a ways, I
realized I hadn't There was no other cars on the road, uh,
and it was like kind of spooky. And then at
one point I stopped the car in just in the
middle of the road, in the middle of highway, and
just had lunch on the hood. But that was as

(51:52):
close as I got to this this air, you know.
And of course we've been over in the Blues, but
I've always wanted to check out some of these these
places that I've heard people rave about that they that
they just didn't even you know, these unsung beautiful places
in eastern Oregon that nobody ever goes to.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Yeah, and there are plenty actually that three ninety five.
I drove that years and years and years ago, and
I was just blown away by the vast emptiness of
that part of the state. I remember driving and there's
nobody out there in the middle of the desert, right
And I remember driving just before dusk, you know, and
so we had our headlights on and we're driving like
seventy seventy five or more or something like that, and

(52:36):
we were entering in this long bowl shaped valley and
way in the distance we could see headlights and we're
driving seventy five. The people who were had I saw
the headlight. They had to be driving just as fast.
It took twenty or thirty minutes for us to pass
each other. Wow, Yeah, it was insane. We passed this
little place called wagon Tire in the middle of it.

(52:56):
There's nothing out there, but of course that's not bigfoot habitat.
Per say, they might wander into those areas in the
river beds, and all right, the.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Desert areas aren't. But among the desert areas, I know,
like if you go through the desert, then you get
to these places apparently where there's some mountain ranges and
some deep valleys where there's is a lot of deer
and pronghorn and just a lot of wildlife. In some
part of eastern Oregon where just it's like nobody goes

(53:24):
to because of course when people think of Oregon, they
want to go to the Oregon Cascades or the Oregon
the Coastal Range. All the gravity of attention is toward
you know, the western part of Oregon that everybody knows
and loves. But that's only It's like when I tell
people about Washington State, I'm like, the thing, the part

(53:46):
of Washington State that you think about is only like
like one third the first the far western third of
the state, and the rest is just like this, like yack.
It's like this open kind of grassland, you know, and
there's not a lot of big trees, and it's just

(54:07):
it's almost prairie ish. But yeah, it's the green, wet
parts are the ones that the tourists visit, and everything
else gets overlooked.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Yeah, it is absolutely amazing. In fact, I'm headed out
there tomorrow. I'm going to the Blues tomorrow for the
next few days to go do some work out there.
But the Blue Mountains stretch north kind of northeast southwest
all throughout the area from Washington by Wallah wah Bah
all the way to almost a central central organ like
the Ochiko National Forest, Maur National Forest, and all throughout

(54:39):
the area. It is great big footing and we get
we get a fair amount of stuff out there, especially
when you consider how few people are actually out there.
Some amazing Bigfoot reports. We had a woman named Barbara
on the show here actually who ran into several Sasquatches
who seem to be maybe guarding their water hole or something.
She was jeeping up on this ridge line where there

(55:01):
was a spring she knew about, and at night the
sasquatchs came in. And she was a former law enforcement officer,
and she and her partner had hurt their backs against
the trees with their guns drawn for four or five
hours as these things shrieked at her around her jeep.
Like amazing sighting reports and things happened out there quite
a bit. And you just look at Google Earth or

(55:23):
something and look at the green spots in eastern Oregon,
and most of that has very few people living there.
It's kind of like you know, main or like Idaho
or something. The people who are there are not talking
about it. So there are a lot of reports out
there that nobody has ever heard of, and nobody probably
ever will.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
I spent nine nights out there with Koreda a couple
of years ago out in Malhur and went to John
Day and I say a coastos cliff. I sa that
one oaks. Yeah, we went out. We bounced out there
for like nine nights, and man, was I think I
was talking to you about it as Matt, like, that's

(56:01):
that is a place to set those long distance thrms.
If you got like a really high end therm.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Yeah, exactly, they'd be exposed to tree it's not dense
tree cover like you have towards the coast, so you'd
have a much better shot. And then the behavior kind
of like as we've seen over the years going to
different parts of the country, it's when you're going you
go to a bigfoot area where that hardly where there's

(56:26):
hardly ever people going the bigfoot seem to behave a
little differently. They're a little bit more honoring, they're a
little bit more likely to try to scare you out
of an area. And it's as if the ones that
are in the places where there's a lot of humans
around are being like really careful. They're trying to stay hidden.
They don't want people to know they are there. They're

(56:48):
not going to protest and make a big to do.
But yeah, someplace out in eastern Oregon, like you're camped
at some watering hole where like nobody like maybe only
see somebody drive by like once every two years. They
have not become quite as cautious. They're they're you know,
and so that that's part of the appeal for me

(57:09):
going a place like that. It's like, I know, there's
probably lots of nooks. There's probably pockets of bigfoots around
there that just don't get any you like, I get
so little human contact that they would be they'd be
more likely to be exposed at night. Two therms.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Yeah, I would totally agree that. If you want to
compare that part of Oregon to some other place, I
think a good analogy would be the Ciras in some
ways because it's dry and desert y and the trees
aren't so dense in a lot of areas, but also
kind of New Mexico because they're not You're not gonna
find the Maassquatches down low necessarily, but you're gonna find
them in those sky islands like as we call them

(57:48):
over in New Mexico. And you know, for a lot
of the year that may be a desert, but it
is cold out there. It is cold, cold, cold out there,
and so they're not gonna mind dropping down and traveling
between the two as long as they can reach it
over tonight.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Yes, so the way it's shaken out. There is another
I believe it's in September. The Arizona trip is actually
they've moved it around the target location. It was going
to be very close to the Arizona I mean to
the New Mexico border, but then they finally found a
sweet spot. So it's actually going to be in New Mexico,

(58:23):
down in the Gilas, and the Gilas is one of
those sky island areas where it gets real high elevation.
I remember the first time I saw a bunch of
photos from there, I'm like, that's southern New Mexico because
it looked like Montana in the spring, and because it's

(58:44):
so high and wet, and there was like so much
elk and deer and all kinds of stuff. But it's
a function of elevation. And the one thing about the
sky islands in the Southwest, in the summertime, the hottest
time of the year where it gets blistering hot in
the lowlands those sky islands, that's the time of year

(59:04):
where it gets the rains, the monsoon rains coming up
like the human moisture coming up from the south like
out of like the either of the Gulf of Mexico
the Sea of Cortes, but it gets that moisture coming
up and it just dumps in those mountains. So there's
a lot of rain all throughout the summer in those

(59:26):
high areas. Oh, and I saw that effect myself in
Arizona when I went on the last Arizona trip I
went to. Was on the place side I always wanted
to go to and finally went to. It was on
the north rim of the Grand Canyon.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Oh. I've heard great things out of that area, but
never been myself.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Yeah, And what was amazing was so I flew into
Salt Lakes, connected through Salt Lake City and then came
down into Saint George and then drove from there from
Saint George over, you know, kept kind of like jogging
like towards the southeast over toward the North Rim. And

(01:00:06):
so when you do that, you go from Saint George,
you're you're kind of for at least for that part
of the country, you're in low elevation, and then you're
going up and up and up, and finally when you
get over by the North Rim, you're in like around
nine thousand feet you're really high.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Up.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
So I remember the day I came back, it was
like cloudy and in the sixties and raining. It was
like it was like New England, rainstorm on and off, clouds, raining,
the roads slick. I driving out of the North Rim
and by the time I got back was headed back
towards Saint George. It was one hundred and ten degrees

(01:00:48):
in Saint George on the same day that it was
just raining, casts and dogs on the North Rim. So
there you have the effect of that kind of moist
air are coming up from the south and if the
mountains push it up high enough, it dumps a lot
of rain on the high to you know, the high country.

(01:01:10):
But then when it you know, it gets over the
low country, it's just like this heat that just scorching heat.
So that that applies to a lot of the Southwest,
the Sky Islands getting rain in the summer and the
lowlands just getting baked to hell. Like I don't even
understand how you can live in Phoenix throughout the summer,

(01:01:30):
but I think a lot of people who lived like
get they get the hell out of town in the
summertime because they would just that would be be like
living in Las Vegas.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Hey, well, you know, Matt, speaking of getting the hell
out of town, we're a little overtime right now. Why
don't we hop over to the membership section because we
have a bunch of questions from our members for you.
We announced your your appearance today, so we have a
bunch of submitted questions from our members and we can
go over there and then clean things up over there. Sure,
all right, bebe Matt, Thank you so much for coming on.

(01:02:02):
Anything you want to share with us real fast, Anything
you want to push or plug, any of your expeditions
you just announced, or something you want people to go in.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
There's only a handful of expeditions that still have slots
available for the rest of this year. And you can
see on I mean, if you want to see what's
going on with the BFRO, the best place to go
is on Facebook in the Facebook group section, and you
look up the group BFRO nineteen ninety five. And I

(01:02:33):
say that BFR nineteen ninety five because if you just
look up BFRO, there's actually some fake groups pretending to
be us calling themselves BFRO, and they have our banner
and it's really just a ripoff. But Facebook won't do
anything about them. Because they say, oh, yeah, those are
just fan sites. So yeah, BFRO nineteen ninety five, And

(01:02:55):
you'll see the posts where we're talking about like that.
That's where we post the most you know, up to
date stuff going on. And there's a recent post that
has the list of the remaining twenty twenty five trips
where there's still openings and non members can join.

Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
You got a message for those imposters out there that
are faking BFR accounts.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Well, I don't want to draw give them too much attention,
And all I can say is I would want to
address the people who might be confused by them, and
that is to say, if you're looking at a Facebook
group and you're wondering whether or not it's us, look
at the number of followers, because we're the ones that
have like about one hundred thousand people on our Facebook group,

(01:03:40):
and these fakers don't have anything close to that and
they can't. It's it's hard for them to fake having
followers that they that many followers if they don't actually
have that many followers. So look for the look for
the subscriber count, and the one that's around one hundred
thousand is the real BFR out.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
I thought you're going to have a message of telling
them a bunch of losers.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
I would, but as I have found with people who
are trying to troll some of the posts, it's like
that gratifies them. If I start calling them names. It's
just like they feel like they've gotten under my skin
or gotten out of a rise from me. So it's
just like I'm not even gonna not even get to
give them that satisfaction.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
It satisfies us.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
You say what we're all thinking, Matt, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
Oh yeah, well I have some choice. Well anyway, let's
go to the questions and maybe i'll maybe I'll have
some good insults for those people.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
All right, Yeah, if you want to, If you want
to hear Matt insult imposters, join Patreon. We'll be going
there right now. For all you good listeners, thanks for
joining us this week, and the illustrious Matt Moneymaker. It's
awesome he is here again so soon, So thanks to Matt,
and until next week, y'all, keep it Squatchy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
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(01:05:22):
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