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October 13, 2025 57 mins
Cliff Barackman, James "Bobo" Fay, and Matt Pruitt delve into a wide variety of topics, including: the recent passing of Dr. Jane Goodall, Cliff's experiences on a satyr-laden property, a new video purportedly showing a living thylacine, evidence of a Neanderthal family hunting, why baboons march in order, evidence that primated evolved in cold climates, a new film based on the Ostman story, and an ancient skull in China

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Big Food and Beyond.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
With Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, so
like say subscribe and rade it live Stock and met.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
On yesterday and listening watching limb always keep its watching.
And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Boobo Fay Bobo?

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Are you doing? Man?

Speaker 3 (00:32):
All right? What's up? Cliff?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I been real busy. I haven't talked to you a
little while. I mean, we got so many recordings done
that we've taken like a week and a half off
because people are out of town and stuff. Seems like
it's been forever since I've heard you. My how you've grown.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Thanks?

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, intellectually, Yeah, your voice must be three or four
inches taller. It's amazing.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Yeah. I can't believe we lost another we lost another one.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
I know, we might as well just get that that
bum out over with like at the top of the
show here. Yeah, of course, Jane Goodall has passed away.
That's a total bum out. Just an amazing woman in
so many ways. I mean, I don't think I need
to go over too much what she's done. But as
far as primatology goes, and of course everybody knows that
she was interested in the Sasquatch subject, and she thought
thought that these things were out there. You know, I

(01:17):
have her autograph. A good friend of mine kind of
ran across her at an airport at one point and
she signed us a thing for me and this is
cliff something that something the effective. Maybe we discover the
mystery still out there, I think is what she wrote,
something that efect. I don't have it in front of me, unfortunately,
but yeah, just just what a heartache. Just another another

(01:39):
figure in the Bigfoot community dropping. I mean, because she's
tangentially Bigfoot community, right, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
We claim her. She didn't known us claiming her. I
don't think, because actually I told the story about when
we were talking about doctor Meldren passing. Just I used
the story of the Jane get All story with him,
but I actually got to speak her kind of like well,
I was on a speakerphone with Rimber rip life.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
I do remember Riplin'll never met him, but I remember him.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
He was in contact with her for years, like over
the big Foot stuff, and then she also followed it.
He also looked for the Ivory build woodpecker for like
three years down to the swamps, and he had a
couple of big Foot action things there. But yeah, she
liked him, like because he was a He's a pretty
classic character. I mean, he could little nuts have had
a he was. He was funny, and he was funny,
he was smart and and he said, yeah, he goes,

(02:25):
I'm gonna you know, he said he knewer and I
was like no, And he had like signed stuff or
he had pictures with her and stuff, and then said yeah. Yeah.
We talked, you know, a couple of times a year.
And then he said, I'm gonna call her. You know.
I said, dude, I got to hear this. And I said,
I want to hear this, you know, big foot. So
he goes, okay, and he called her and he talked
to her for about like fifteen minutes something like that,
and I got to chime in a little bit, you know,

(02:47):
like I said, well, I said, you know, I just
told her what I knew about some things, and she
wanted She was she's always really interested in like the
native perspective with the old like that, like what the
what like you like their diet and that sort of
things and any kind of breeding patterns, and she was
interested in that. She wasn't you know, in like scary
stories and stuff she wanted to know, like biological aspects

(03:08):
of it.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
Very cool and a huge loss, you know, because she
was such a great person that we could, as you said,
claim it's like well good all things, that these things
are probably real, Like why don't you you know that?
That's basically I guess her use I guess in the
communities like that. She was open minded enough, So why
can't you, mister and missus skeptic?

Speaker 3 (03:28):
You know? Yeah, she called jeffa she called She told
Jeff she really admired him.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, and bind and Ogle as well, I believe. Yeah,
I've seen pictures of both those gentlemen with her.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
I'm pretty sure I took that picture of Meldrene with it,
almost like should I take that picture?

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Listeners should go back and listen to the Doctor Meldren
Tribute if they want to hear Bobo's awesome story about
heckling Jane Goodall fans in line for a book signing
or I guess it's speaking of him, right.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, yeah, it was. It was a book signing fall.
I mean it was a speaking event followed by a
book signing, and every person there got in line just
to get to get something signed.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
It was amazing that she was still on tour and
you know, going out and delivering lectures to the public.
It sounds like that's she passed away in the midst
of a series of scheduled dates to go do that.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
I heard her last interview. She was yeah, she was
still She hadn't taken a day off. She worked right
up till like the day she died. Wow.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Meldrum too, actually yeah, And I mean he's obviously taken
days off, he got weekends and stuff, but he was
hoping to retire the next year.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
Yeah. Yeah, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
It's been a tragic couple of weeks a month or so,
you know, with doctor Meldrum dropping and then of course
Scott Violette dropping and now Jane Goodall checked out and
U and actually you don't know, Bobs, but you remember
my buddy Jeff from Santa Cruz.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yeah, yeah, he died.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
He died over this past weekend. He was younger than me. Dang. Yeah,
that's the fourth person. And you know, I can't really
say Jane Goodall's exactly in my sphere, you know, but
kinda is, you know. That's and of course jeffa is
very close so he just passed away. I gotta go
down to Santa Cruz next weekend for the funeral. He
lived on that wacky ranch down there outside of Sokel,

(05:12):
and I think they had sasquatches. But Jeff is such
a weird guy, you know. He like he said no, no, no,
there was something there. He thought that he had sadys, sadyrs.
He was just such a weird, weird guy. He told
me some crazy stories about that ranch. And he lived
right on Sokel Creek on this weird Junkyard property is

(05:33):
like five long, skinny acres and he lived at the
very very bottom in this ranshackle converted garage that was
certainly not permitted for, you know, any life to be
in there, you know, like maybe chickens or something. But
like he was living in there with his buddy Dan
and Ben and some other people, and they had crazy
I had crazy stuff happened down there. Like I remember

(05:55):
one night I was down there, and it is a
long time ago. This is probably early nineties or something
where hang it out in the I think it's probably
summer because I think the window or door was opened
or something and we heard goats and like coming from
the creek and there's no way goats where I mean,
I guess goats could have gotten loose, but like there
was a goat down townd like, which is why he

(06:17):
thought that there were satyrs around, because he'd hear it often.
One time they were coming. Like there was like an
upper property, and I'm the guy who owned this place.
He's long passed away. He was old when I when
I was going down there in the nineties, his name
was Jerry, and there were probably three or four, I
guess buildings for lack of a better term on the
upper property, although some of them were probably trailers. But

(06:40):
you couldn't see him anymore because the guy was a
junk collector, like this insane hoarder. Anything that may have
a use in the future he would take and then
like he had just put it on the property somewhere.
And you do that for a few decades and you
don't you don't see your house anymore. And Jeff lived
Jeff and Dan and those guys are Ben Whoever's roommate
at the time. They lived at the very bottom of

(07:03):
the property. So we had to drive through this like
really tight one lane road with a wall of debris.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
I can't.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
It was not refuse. I don't want to give the
idea that it was like you know, flies buzzing around
in piles of you know, crap and food waste. It
wasn't like that. It was like like scrap metal and
buckets and old cars and tires and things that might
have a use someday. And there was a legit fifteen
foot wall on either side of this road all the

(07:35):
way down to the bottom. But they were driving down
one night, and of course Jeff, being a wacky guy,
he describes I think he saw a sasquatch because whatever
this was, it moved. It didn't bob its head at all.
It was a dark shadow seven to eight feet tall.
It just basically stepped over the barbed wire fence on

(07:55):
the right hand side of the road from the Persimmon
orchard and then floated across the road and then down
into Sokel Creek. And I go, yeap, that's a sasquatches. Now, now,
the way it moved, it had to be a spirit. Well,
you know, what about a compliant gate And I described
how sasquatch. No, No, not the way this move, man, No,

(08:17):
it was just so smooth, like there's no head bob.
It just like practically floated across the road. And it's like, dude,
you probably saw a sasquatch. And like another dude named
Dan used to live there. And again this weird ramshackle,
you know, garage that they lived in. It had a
triangular sort of roof on it, you know, as many

(08:39):
places do, but that that top triangle part was a window,
and he remembers being in his room and they would
have quote unquote the tall man would come by every
once in a while and then look in their windows,
like that tall, tall window. The thing had to be
like eight or ten feet off the ground, and the
tall man would come and look in the windows sometimes.

(08:59):
And then another time he heard somebody or something like
climb up the broken tractor that was leaning against the
building that they lived in and went on the roof
and ran around for a while and then jumped off
and ran away. Just crazy crazy stuff would happen there.
And of course they knew Mike Rugg. They told Mike
about all that stuff. But you know, Jeff's version of

(09:19):
it was always very very weird, like you know, like, well,
the UFO landed in the field over there, and then
this happened, and just like crazy wacky, wacky stories all
the time. But I think they'd probably just had a
local sasquatch.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
I've already had that one about like the giant orb,
like the UFO then coming over the shed.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yeah yeah, then they had the crossroads down there where
that they came face to face with with Pan, you know,
the satyr Pan at one time. There's Yeah, he was
a really really weird guy and one of my best friends.
I just love him tremendously and he'll be missed deeply too.
So got I got to go to a funeral next week,
But Jeff himself told me that, you know, we're at

(09:57):
the age where we go to a lot more funerals
and weddings.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Yeah, So I was just thinking that day.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Would it be insensitive to say that I hope your
trip down their pans out.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
That's the kind of thing he would appreciate.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
You just don't get too many Pan references on this podcast.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
Not enough. No, Yeah, I was out in New York
this past weekend as well.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
Oh yeah, how'd that go?

Speaker 2 (10:21):
It was all right? It was right first year event,
inaugural event for the New York big Foot Conference. It
was a lot of fun because I flew out two
days early and hung out with John Wilke from Squatshachusetts
for a couple of days.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
I blamed you for the Red Sox loss. I said, due,
they lost to the Yankees because Clif didn't cheer hard enough.
It's all his fault. Go sports.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
We watched it, though, we watched it.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
Not bad, right, they lost, so he gets he takes
it so harder they lose.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
He was pretty mad. He was pretty mad, especially I
guess Boston and Yankees apparently have a rivalry. Oh dude,
you knew about this.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah, dude, I'm a Red Talx fan. Uh go sports.
Speaking of sports, I had the worst day to day
last night. I freaking listened. I asked a couple of
my buddies that are fantasy football, like you know, they
played like multiple tons of leagues and teams and they
studied like hours a day, and I was like, God,
I just think I should start Cam Scattaboo over Ashton Jenty.

(11:17):
He was like the Raiders first round pick and Scottobo
was like a third third round pick or fifth round
pick something like that. Anyways, Jenty was like the number
one back coming out of college. And he's like getting
all the high he won the Heisman Trophy, and I
was like, I think Scout was gonna do it then,
So the last minute I benched him and put in
genty and he played sunny. But last night freaking Scotty

(11:38):
rand for like ninety eight yards, three touchdowns, scored thirty points,
and I just was so mad.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
I was like, Ah, I'm still mesmerized by his name.
Scataboo Is that right?

Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, it's his real name.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
That's an awesome name. Well, it's just an awesome sounding word.
I like awesome sounding words, like, you know, gazebo and
things like that, you know, but Skataboo is definitely in there.
That's cool.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
But I think that is like I think it's it's
gonna be like Scotch or Welsh or something. Oh okay, yes,
I'm guessing Scottay sounds like it's Scottish to me. It's
just a neat sounding sound. I like that.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
That's cool. I'd root for him for that reason.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
Anyway, people that want to hear about that, let's talk
bigfoot stuff. What do we got?

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Oh wait, well, before we go too much further, John
and I we had a whole data kill. So we
went to University of Massachusetts and visited with Todd disstel Oh,
got to go to his lab and hang out with
him and all that sort of stuff. I made a
bet with him. I made a bet that I'm probably
gonna lose, but I think it would be a good
bet anyway. I said, dude, five years, bigfoots are no
longer mystery animals.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
I've lost that met so many times over the last
twenty years.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Well, now it's my turn. That's my turn, I said. Well,
but actually I said, well, wait a minute, wait a minute.
Before we do this, how long does it take to
get published in Nature? You know, because when this thing's done,
it's not going to be a small sort of you know,
like journal. It's going to be something big, right obviously.
And he goes, oh, I've been published like four months.
Five months. They go okay, cool, yeah, five years. So

(13:03):
five years I've got a steak dinner and some bourbon
writing on it. So he did. He he did say
he's more than happy to test any vible sample I
send him. And he showed me around his lab and
showed me some of the It was funny we're in
his lab. He goes, yeah, this will do this, and
this this is the centrifugion does blah blah blah, and
this this machine here, and they all look like microwaves
to me, you know, like these big microwaves. Yeah, this

(13:25):
costs like forty fifty thousand dollars. And what this one
does is blah blah blah blah blah. And and he goes, yeah,
this one over here, and you put any sample in there,
it actually extracts the DNA material somehow. By he didn't
say somehow because he knows how. But for me it
was blah blah blah blah blah DNA material somehow, you know.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
And then.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
And John goes, what's that one do because it kind
of looks like the dishwashers. Oh yeah, that one was
from my coffee cup.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
For those that don't know, Just to tell you, I
recognized him. Used to have a mohawk and being like
Bigfoot documentaries like ten, fifteen, twenty years ago, do.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
You know, Oh yeah, yeah, good point. I didn't. Yeah
you didn't bridge the gap, Thank you, Bobo. I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, he's a geneticist who's mildly interested in the sasquatch phenomenon.
But you know, Todd said that he's interested in coming
on and doing more big Foot stuff now I think
so maybe we can probably convince him to come on
the podcast if you guys want so cool, stay tuned
for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll
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Speaker 2 (16:18):
He did say you'd be willing to test any samples,
and I said, just I mean Todd. In my opinion,
Darby's going to do this. Darby's going to go over
the finish line with this thing. And I've got a
steak dinner on less than five years. It could be you.
It could be you trying to encourage a little bit
of a you know, rivalry or you know competition. You know,
it's like, why don't you do it instead? I don't

(16:39):
care who discovers that. I'm an equal opportunity to discover.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
Yeah, well, you know what, I think it's gonna give
a big shot. There's that new thoas scene video came
out yesterday May not Australia, Victoria. Like I guess, it's
like forty to fifty miles from Melbourne, up on the
Yarra Mountain range. The guy got real compelling thermal. It
looks like a thalacy going down and around some kangaroos.

(17:03):
He's got pretty good. Uh, he's got a pulsar like
you got mat. I think it's I think he's got
the fifty So it's pretty clear. I mean it's look,
it looks good to me. I mean it's I mean
he's had some videos out there that are kind of
it's that ambiguous world on YouTube. I think he's had
foxes up there and other things that have been proven
not to be thallacing. But he's got a couple of

(17:24):
clips that look like a thallacing to me, and this
new one really looks like one, and I think I
think he's got it.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Oh yeah, I'm looking at that right now. It does
look kind of does look interesting.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah, I mean if that, if that turns out, dude, like,
I mean, that's going to just throw gas on the
fire for cryptis. I mean, that's a Lazarus species, you know,
of course it's a it's it's not there's no question
that was around. We got you know, bodies of them
and footage of them. But they've been extinct supposedly for
one hundred years, almost like ninety years. So if those
things turn out, they have been hidden, you know, down

(17:56):
there the whole time is still living and breeding. I mean,
it's gonna give so much hope to like, like people
are like, well, maybe sasquatches or Yawey's down there, you know,
maybe that is a possibility.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know enough about him and stuff, but.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
He's got other videos where he breaks it down, where
he breaks down like the I Am the intermembal index,
like the the legs and this thing don't match anything
but a Tholos scene he's got. He's got some really
interesting videos on there. He's a smart dude.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
Maybe we grab him for the podcast too.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
Then I've written to him. I used to be in
touch with them, like several years ago. I just wrot
to him again last night, saying, I know you're getting
flooded now, but we'd love to have you on. Well cool, So, uh,
should I derailed the conversation?

Speaker 1 (18:38):
My train of thought was derailed. That's a topical news item.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah, yeah, which is kind of what we're doing today.
We've got a number of topics lined up for you
or of our listeners. So why don't we hop onto
that we haven't done one of these in a while, right, Matt.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Yeah, we usually do him about once a month. But
you know, we crammed so many episodes and got so
far ahead, weeks ahead, And that's why, listeners, if you noticed,
I was putting in the show notes like by the way,
this was recorded on September fourth or September eighth or whatever,
just because there were things that happened in the interim
that we didn't talk about in the episode, and so
I wanted to make sure people knew, like, no, we

(19:14):
recorded this before those things happened. We weren't just being
callous or ignorant or something. So I couldn't tell you
when the last one we've done is, because they're all
starting to blend together once we get that far ahead.
I just don't remember when we recorded it or released it.
But I really liked this article that I put in
first in the order there about the Neanderthal footprints and

(19:37):
the insights that it gave into their lifestyle, because you know,
you can, as you're such a big advocate of Cliff,
that you can learn so much about an animal or
a species or an individual from footprints alone, And I
thought that one offered a lot of really cool insights.

Speaker 2 (19:51):
Okay, let me pull up the article. Here is this
someone about the the Nandertal foot prints alon the lake
bed with a dentinal or something, and oh, okay, cool,
I remember that one. I did read that one. Okay,
it looks like that Deanderthal footprints were discovered on a
southwestern Portuguese coast and the tracks are from eighty two
to maybe seventy eight thousand years ago, so relatively recently.
I know it doesn't sound very recent, but that's pretty recently.

(20:14):
A couple of the interesting things about this is that
apparently that the footprint from the youngest child lacks a
fully formed arch, which is consistent with the expectations I
guess from early childhood from development and Neanderthals. I didn't
know that. That's pretty cool. I didn't know that at all.
You know, I have a couple of footprints. Doctor Melgrim
gave me a footprint from supposed I think it was

(20:37):
from the Palmiers from an almisty, and it very closely
matches the footprints from Neanderthals. I remember talking to doctor
Melgrim that he suspects at the Almistes in eastern Europe
there are probably or that probably maybe I think that's
too struggle word possibly reliced Neanderthals are possibly Dennis Ovin's.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
It was really interesting that these trackways included prints that
they interpreted as being from an adult male, a juvenile
basically a child that they assume is somewhere between like
seven and nine years old, and a toddler likely under
two years old, and that the arrangement and depth of
the footprint suggests a deliberate movement, something like something coordinated,
which they seem to interpret as like hunting behavior like

(21:24):
it says quote the prints indicate the likelihood of a
hunting scenario, which I think is pretty fascinating.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Would be super fascinating is considering that there's a I guess,
a juvenile or you almost called a baby if they
think it's less than two years old, a young one,
certainly a toddler, yeah, coming along with them on this. Now,
of course you'd have to wonder like Neanderthals, of course
took down huge animals, you know, deer and horses and
all that sort of stuff, and maybe in a mammos

(21:51):
I guess. But if they're doing stuff along the seashore,
that makes a lot of sense too. I think too
many times humans, when we discover something like, oh, these
I took down mamis, we think that that's what they did,
and that's all they did. But a seashore, especially in
a Mediterranean sort of climate like that, I don't I
get was it Mediterranean at that time? I don't really know.
But you sasquatches exploit resources along the ocean all the time,

(22:17):
and certainly ancestors and relatives would do the same thing,
and I think here we have evidence of that. Now,
what were they hunting if that if they were in
fact hunting. I mean, they probably weren't hunting mammas on
the beach. I guess it's possible. But what else lives
there in abundance birds? For example? Maybe they're hunting birds.
That seems like something you might take a two year

(22:38):
old on a trip to go do, right, But at
the very least, it does give us some sort of
insight into the social structure and behaviors of at least
these critters deanderthals, because they brought the younglings along with
them on whatever they were doing, foraging for whatever.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
But I know this so that they thought that, like
the kids would go out and hunt like rabbits and
stuff like the Maybe they.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Do, I don't know, But moving together in a familial group,
that sounds familiar to me. We see that a lot
with sasquatches, that there's different sizes of footprints associated with
one another to some degree, So that there's another example
of that sort of hominin behavior.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
Yeah, to me.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
It also speaks to that how much of an animal's
behavior is learned behaviors rather than innate or instinctual behaviors.
And I was really fascinated to learn that the majority
of tiger hunting behaviors. Siberian tigers are learned behaviors. They're
not instinctual or innate, which is really kind of bizarre.
You would think a genus that's been around that long
so many of those things would have become hardwired. But

(23:40):
they're actually learned, and it takes them quite a while
to be exposed to their mothers exhibiting these behaviors to
pick them up and develop that sort of sophisticated and
complex behavioral repertoire. And you're seeing that here. I mean,
it would be any surprise that humans are that way,
but it's interesting to see direct evidence of that. I
think it said something too about there was a likely

(24:02):
camp site nearby, like it was pretty proximal to what
seemed to be an intertal encampment, showing that like this
was part of their landscape. You know, this wasn't some
far flung hunting grounds, Like this is basically down the
road from where they lived essentially, and so going out
as a family unit and practicing these skills for the
children at least learning these skills while the adult male

(24:23):
practice them. It's all pretty insightful to gain that much
information just from a set of tracks.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Well, which really drives home that whole thing about tracking
is extraordinarily important, extraordinarily important. Again, I've actually heard a
bigfoot researcher say, we got to stop looking for tracks.
What's one more track going to teach us? And I
just could not disagree more strongly. I just could not

(24:49):
disagree with that statement more strongly. We need to track
more and more and more. The presence of the animal
is one thing, certainly that tracks can tell us that
with sasquatches or neanderthal or whatever, it doesn't really matter.
But by following the tracks and seeing where they happen
and what they're doing at the time, it's the only
way to get into the brain of a sasquatch. Really,

(25:10):
it's the only way to learn about these animals. I
can't believe that anybody would advocate to stop looking for
footprints and collecting them, Like, what does that get us?
It gives us a willful ignorance of the behaviors of
the species. It's just it's absolutely ridiculous to me.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
There's nothing like getting on a trackway and seeing where
they step and like like melgam was talking, like how
the foot would go off at a forty five degree
angle every other stuff because I was looking over its shoulder, like,
and it gives you so much insight into their psychology
and how they think it is, you know, it's it's
it gives you in the mind of the squatsch when
you get on their trail and you can see where
they're stepping and what they're going, like, what they're keeping like,

(25:49):
you know, how they try to stay hidden from you know,
as much as possible as they walk, but keep it,
keep going the direction they're going. I mean, yeah, it's
it's it's it's the coolest thing I can think of.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Really, And what percentage I mean, there's this venturre I guess,
Bobo Matt, what percentage of sighting reports have the sasquatch
being aware that it's being observed? Oh, I'd say the
majority ninety eight ninety nine percent. Right, I'm it's very
very rare to observe a sasquatch it and it doesn't

(26:21):
know that it's being observed, very very rare. And of course,
what does any sasquatch or animal really do when it
knows it's being observed, Well, a variety of things, but
you can put all of those things under the umbrella
of it changes its behavior. It clearly changes its behavior,
usually just walks away, but it certainly and maybe it hides,
maybe it does something else, but it stops doing what

(26:43):
it was doing naturally and changes its behavior and does
something else. I argue I do this publicly all the
time because I'm really focused on footprints, because I want
to learn about the species. I know that they're there,
I want to know what they're doing, right, So, but
I argue all the time, the only way to observe
a sasquatch and it not know that it's being observed,

(27:05):
it's by tracking them, because every trackway tells a story.
It was moving through this area doing something. What was
it doing?

Speaker 3 (27:14):
You know?

Speaker 2 (27:15):
And there is no other way, in my opinion that
I'm aware of, to observe a sasquatch without it changing
its behavior in some sort of way.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
And it looks like in this case too, that they
their interpretation is that because it looks like there were
red deer footprints as well, and so it reveals a
likely scenario where in the Neanderthals were leveraging the done
topography to facilitate ambushes, so using that landscape to basically
hide or surprise prey potentially intercept prey or even maybe

(27:45):
to drive prey interrain that constrains the praise movement sounds
very familiar to me, Yes, very very much though clearly
another Sasquatch parallel right there.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Bogo will be right back after these messages.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
That does make me wonder, you know, if all the
Sasquatch tracks that come to mind where people are interpreting
what the things were up to. You know, you have
a lot of sidings where people claim to see them
ambushing deer or hogs or elk or whatever. But I
don't know that there's any track ways where someone claims
to have interpreted or documented a trackway that displays that
sort of behavior or what you would interpret as that

(28:32):
sort of behavior.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
We got one, yeah, one hundred percent. There is a
few years ago at the Blueberry Bog we got one
of those. Connor located a track. It's on display at
the museum. There were actually several tracks on the shore
like this, on the side of the swamp basically, and
Connor found it. Nico went back with them. I never
had that. I was out of town or something. I

(28:54):
didn't have an opportunity to observe the trackway for myself.
But Nico, who's a training tracker, He's taking classes in
this whole thing. He's a good tracker. I'm just a
self taught hack, you know. But I do practice all
the time. I sicking that today. I practiced like six
to twelve hours a week a lot of times. You know,
you got to get better practicing that much, right, But
because taking classes and he's pretty good at it, he

(29:15):
went out there to observe the trackway, and what he
pieced together the story that those tracks told him is
that he backtracked the sasquatch to the woodline, and then
apparently a bunch of elk were in the area, and
the elk took off. They seem to have panicked or
something like that, and went across the swamp like the

(29:37):
water like there's a big pond there, you know, like
that sort of thing. They went across the pond, and
the sasquatch tracks came out of the woods about thirty
yards fifty yards down and then slowly turned and followed
the elk across the pond. And you can actually see

(29:58):
the duckweed or whatever or muck was floating on the
surface of the pond. You can see how the whole
thing was parted, and the thing, the elk and everything,
and the sasquatch presumably went all the way across the
water and out on the shore on the other side
and kept going.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
That sounds totally new to me. I don't think we
talked about that before, at least not on the podcast.
That's wild cool stuff, though, right, I mean, yeah, what
a great story that the Ground told you, you know, absolutely, yeah,
there's got got some pictures of it. I think they
made a video about it too. Let's see if I
can find the video and send it to you as well.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Oh, I'd love to see that.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
So, in keeping with the footprints and cooperative movements, et cetera,
should we move on to the baboon article?

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Sure? Okay, So this article is basically about baboons moving
in progressions, which are neat linear formations when traveling throughout
their habitat, which you know, which is one of those
things that's like, well, yeah, of course they probably do that,
because we do that, right. I mean, how many times
do when you're off trail somewhere you just walk right

(31:07):
behind somebody. You don't always walk side by side, right,
so at least some of the time they do that.
But scientists were wondering if this is a strategic choice,
like are they protecting individuals or something like that, or
following leaders or just accidental, But apparently it's on purpose.
They are doing this on purpose, so that they were
wondering if there's a risk hypothesis, so like vulnerable individuals

(31:30):
might be placed centrally for protection, which brings to mind
Bobo's story about the tigers in Samatra. You remember that, Bobs, Yeah, yeah, totally,
because apparently in Sumatra they were picking off individuals at
the end, but they're also picking off individuals in the
middle when humans were walking in single file line.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
The one that got killed three weeks ahead of us,
that Japanese guy, he was in the middle of fifteen people.
He was the exact middle guy.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Well, I guess, don't leave so much space when you're
hiking in tiger country. I guess is the lesson. Yeah,
so there's a risk hypothesis. There's also a competition hypothesis,
basically saying that the stronger individuals would be first, and therefore,
you know, they would get the resources for better access
to resources. There's also this idea a group decision or

(32:16):
leadership right where certain individuals lead the group. All these
things are very viable, I think, and also some social
relationship ideas about how the ordering of how they're walking
emerges from social bonds rather than any sort of functional purpose.

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Social spandrel.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
Yeah, spandrel is essentially a term that's used to describe
something that's like a evolutionary byproduct, like it doesn't necessarily
have a direct function that's adaptive or for survival. So
that's why they called that one the social spandreal hypothesis,
Like maybe this is just something that emerged as a
byproduct of their lifestyle and it's not actually serving any

(32:58):
specific function or it doesn't have a specific like adaptive utility.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
Is that why we do what?

Speaker 3 (33:04):
You think?

Speaker 2 (33:04):
Do we do it because because it seems natural?

Speaker 1 (33:08):
I wouldn't think so, I mean just guessing, like to
your earlier point, Like there's this path of least resistance thing,
and so you know, if we're moving through a forested
environment and one of us is in front, one of
us is behind, well it's going to be less like
one person's going to eat all the spider webs rather
than both of us doing it, you know, And so
whoever's like trailblazing is making the path least resistant for

(33:29):
the person behind them. You know, there's you could have
any combination of the ones you just mentioned, Like, well,
if you're with a more experienced person, yeah, you want
that person to lead, So there is that social element, but.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
You already know where they're going. That says it's like
they're not really leading, right.

Speaker 1 (33:45):
Well, it looks like their findings were that the order
that the baboons walk in that they're you know, self
selecting and setting up disorder is predictable, so it's not random,
and it didn't seem to be driven by anything related
to safety protection, anything related to food acquisition strategies, and
that it was primarily related to social bonds. That the

(34:06):
social bonds determine the travel order.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
But the ones in front weren't weren't like leading them.
They just they just were out front because they couldn't
walk with the cool guys and so they just there
wasn't any they weren't like leading on. Everyone knew where
they were going.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, that's what it sounds like. It says those at
the front are not the leaders. They were not making
navigation decisions. Yeah, to your point, they already knew where
they were headed, like to and from a familiar sleeping
side or resting site or something like that.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
One iypothesis that I don't see mentioned here is they
move in single file to hide their numbers like sand people. Yeah,
but you know, I'm the one that submitted this article.
I remember that because out at oddly enough, ironically enough,
I guess, considering the joke, I just made that a
location that we call the outer rim, which is also

(34:52):
where tattooing is located. I might dad at the outer rim,
we have found more than one. We found two or
three now sasquatch footprints with a smaller individual's footprint in
the footprint. So again, the first one we found was
a fourteen or so inch print, and there was an
eight inch print right in the middle of the cast.

(35:13):
And then we went back to document the trackway another
week or so later from where these things came up
out of the ravine, and we got thirty or forty
of these prints or whatever, and at least two of
those I think if remember right, Actually this was a
seventeen inch print coming up this is the one that
we have nicknamed Jaba because the place we've nicknamed the
outer rim. That one also had the eight inch print

(35:34):
inside of it. So there's at least two, maybe three
or so or footprints and casts. I cast two of
these that have a larger print. Once a fourteen was
a seventeen with the same eight inch print inside of it,
and I thought, well, isn't that interesting? And of course
I remember when I found that. I was pretty struck
by that. I approached you, Matt, I asked you about it,

(35:55):
and you told me about Area X observations.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
Oh yeah, there's a number those that come to mind
where people had seen two that were walking in single file.
I mean I had an experience once me and Tyler
Bounds took out four friends who are four total skeptics,
and they saw two some things that Tyler and I
are pretty certain were sasquatches that were walking single file
like that. But even in Area ACX or a number
of those cases where there would be two individuals like

(36:20):
one right behind the other, but single file, not side
by side and not spread out, but walking in that way.
I think Darryl talked about a few of those when
we had Daryl Collier on the podcast for the first
time a few years ago. There's another number of other
sidings like that that come to mind, where people see
two of them crossing a road together and their single file,
one right behind the other. So, yeah, this article really

(36:41):
reminded me of a number of those stories. But I
was like, yeah, that sounds pretty familiar.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, I thought it was interesting enough that there's another
primate species that seems to do the same thing, and
maybe there's a purpose to it. Maybe there's not actually
those photographs or I have photographs of those prints in
my presentation that I'm giving this year, And I just
gave that presentation this past weekend at the New York Festival,
and I made that joke, you know about you know,
like sand people to hide their numbers, and I realized,

(37:07):
I think some people are taking me seriously on that, Like,
I don't think sasquatches do that. I want to make
that very clear. I don't think sasquatches are trying to
hide their numbers by doing it. It's literally just a joke,
and you know it's not very good. You can tell
that because I said it.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Hum it reached.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
We just talked about the Julie Davis siding a couple
episodes ago in Colorado where she had seen, you know,
the big adult standing behind her tent and then as
it turned to leave, there was a smaller one immediately
behind it that was obscured when she was looking. I'm
sure it wasn't hiding, but that was just how they
were moving. But in that case, yeah, it was kind
of hiding its numbers, so to speak. But it is

(37:44):
a common theme in a lot of sidings or citing
claims where there are multiple sasquatches.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
But I spoke to a witness just a few weeks ago,
like a month or so ago, and this gentleman had
two of these things walk in front of the of
his car in the Blue Mountains, and I don't I
mentioned this on the show or not after I spoke
to him, but he interpreted them as a male and
female and they were holding hands, walking side by side.
And I kind of chuckled when he told me that,

(38:11):
and he goes, yeah, I get it, but that's what
they were doing. Then they started looking around, and sure enough,
that's a that's a primate behavior.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Really, That's when I've never heard attributed to sasquatches.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
I've heard it a couple of times. You know. I
heard this guy I talked to you. It's got another
weird one. He was like Carrie Stainer. He was the
guy that murdered the family out of Yosemite, the groundskeeper
guy at the lodge. He was the guy in court
trying to get off stading. He was crazy because he
believed in bigfoot. I was talking to that guy. I

(38:43):
was supposed to go do On to meet him when
I was dropping down south and I was going to
go go swing by Usemite and see him. Because he
saw a family of four and it was a male
female and two smaller ones. And he said that they
walked in order of size and they were all holding
hands going across the meadow. That's coming from a crazy murderer.

Speaker 2 (39:01):
So I don't want to derail the conversation too much
with this question, Bobo, but just estimate right now, how
many murderers have you spoken to.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
And I've talked to that I know of a lot?

Speaker 2 (39:17):
Is it like a lot, like six, because that seems
like a lot to me.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
More than that?

Speaker 2 (39:22):
More than that? Okay, a dozen?

Speaker 3 (39:23):
Maybe? Oh more than that?

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Really?

Speaker 3 (39:27):
Yeah? Not not good friends mine, but just you know.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
Oh no, no I didn't. I'm not implying like buddies
that you could, you know, go get a beer with
or something. Yeah, I live in Humble, A good point,
the dark underbelly of California. Yeah, even though it's up
on top.

Speaker 3 (39:41):
Some of them. I was pretty surprised, like, dang, that
guy killed somebody, you know, and then I'd be pretty surprised.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
But not that Yosemite guy.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
I didn't know. I knew he was weird, but I uh.
I talked him on the phone two times and wrote.
We wrote a letter back and forth. Once he wrote me,
I wrote him, and he wrote me back. Then he
got then he got arrested.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
I've never heard of that. Also, love the idea of
Bobo like writing letters the dearest wild Man of you.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
You know, Bubo can only write in calligraphy, right, dude,
My handwriting is poor that your cligraphy is beautiful. That's
how you can tell Bobo wrote the graffiti.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
Oh yeah, well the spray paint can I'm yeah, I'm
beautiful lettering.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Bobo will be right back after these messages. Okay, well,
why don't we hop onto the next story here or
the next topic.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
Okay, yeah, we had from science uh, science news, we
had early primates primarily inhabited cold and temperate climates. News
studies suggests. It just goes on to say that we always,
you know, through textbooks and as we grow up learning
things about human expansions, always suggests within the warm tropical forests,
in the real temperate zones. But they actually, the new

(41:08):
research shows they went north in the colder climates more
than they thought. Take it through it.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, it looked like they dealt with hot summers and
freezing winners, but the adaptations were for those freezing winners,
so you know, they weren't adapted to constant warm climates,
but rather their adaptations were to the cold that was
punctuated by warm times of the year, which is you know,
that's a description most of Sasquatch habitat in North America.
Like even you get up in North as you guys know,

(41:35):
like it gets pretty hot in the summer in the
Pacific Northwest, even though you have cold winters and it's
hot in Montana. I mean, there's a lot of these
places they have brutal winners where it's hot during the summer.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
You know what's interesting about this article as well is
as the authors were suggesting that some of these early
primates may have had something like a hibernation like strategy
to survive the freezing winners. And there was another article
I submitted at some point, or did I submit, and
I should have if I didn't, about hominins perhaps having
some sort of hibernation or toper sort of behavior as well.

(42:10):
There's some evidence now that some of VERI was it Heidelbergensis.
Did you read that? Did I submit this? I should have.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
If I didn't, I don't remember it.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
We talked about it, but I haven't read the article.
I don't think it ever got submitted, so we'll definitely
have to cover that. But we did talk about it,
which kind of tied back into this because it's like, Yeah,
if the ancestors of all primates had this adaptation, then
you'd expect it to be conserved to some degree, even
if it's latent, because it looks like there are still
some extant primates like Madagascar's dwarf flamers that do hibernate

(42:44):
to survive winter scarcity, so it's been retained in some
lineages but maybe it is something that is latent and
that the primate line still has a capacity for who knows.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
I think so, man, because I don't know about you guys,
but I don't. I just don't have the urge to
go do a bunch of stuff during winter, you know.
I mean I always assumed it was something related to
like sunlight and all that sort of stuff, you know,
like the seasonal depression thing or whatever else, you know,
but I don't really I don't really get seasonal depression
so much. I just certainly feel more lethargic, though, I

(43:15):
will say that. And I've often wondered if sasquatches, and
I don't think sasquatches, you know, they hibernate or anything
like that, because there's a fair number of sightings during
the winter, and I find tracks during the winter all
winter long. So I don't think they're hibernating. But it
makes sense to some degree. And I don't have any
data on this, but it just makes sense that they
would probably limit their activity to some degree during the

(43:39):
winter time. Certainly they restrict their range, I would imagine,
but it makes sense that perhaps they would maybe maybe
their metabolism slows or something like that, because their diet
would be constricted and their territory would be constricted, and
makes sense that their activity may also be constricted to
some degree.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
God, wouldn't that be wild if there was a link
between you know, seasonal effective disorder and some latent drive
to hibernate and that's why motivation plummets and you know,
the desire to move around or you know, any of
those sort of drives that we have that seem to
be depleted during the winter. We're actually tied to ancient

(44:18):
survival strategies. That to me is very plausible. I'm not
saying it is, but like if some findings came out
that proved that, I be like, oh, yeah, that tracks.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yeah, yeah, that's very interesting. And of course, you know,
everybody thinks apes are all tropical, because the only apes
we have now are tropical. We have monkeys that live
in cold climates, and of course mountain gorillas also going
to the snow as well in the high elevations, but
they live in the tropic you know, along the equator
and that sort of thing, so they are also tropical animals,

(44:50):
but we only have a handful of these relic species now.
All ape species that we know of today are relict species,
so it makes sense. And of course, if you look back,
what is it the Miocene, I believe there were hundreds
of ape species widely spread all throughout well Africa and Asia,

(45:10):
in Europe basically, and of course they went into a
colder climates, so it's not that big of a stretch
that sasquatches could have adapted to something like a cold
climate like in northern Russia and then passed over the
land bridge. Even now they seem to be more commonly
encountered in temperate climates than in the tropics, even though

(45:32):
there are some reports in the tropics. But it just
makes sense that, of course that we have this holdover
from these giant megafauna that existed at that time, you.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
Know, makes sense.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
We will definitely have to find that Heidelbergins's article and
cover that in a future one. Since we did two
cliff articles, I think a good Bobo article to end
on which sounds I was actually intrigued by. It was
this press release about a film that's set to be released.
I guess it's in pre production, so I don't even
know if they've filmed it yet. But a film that's

(46:06):
going to be based on the Osman encounter.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
Yeah, that's gonna be rad Yeah, that's what I got
from the well respected site geek Tyrant. It's called.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Sorry both. I didn't mean to laugh over you, but yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
Yeah, it's in. The movie is called for Capital F
Capital U. Capital Are for tells a wild Jewish Truish
story of the first big for the abduction, and Frank
Mosley is set to star. I don't know who Frank
Moseley is, but yeah, it's at the Albert Osman abduction
and then he gets tangled up in an unsettling relationship.
I know there's been some porns made of it, what really? Yeah, yeah,

(46:47):
based on you would know that.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
I know there. I know there have been because people.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Sent me like links like clips from like pornhub or whatever,
like the or maybe not porn, but like some niche
for kind of poor insider. Something was like, yeah, I
didn't say awesome, it was like it was you know,
it was based on that.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
It was obviously awesoman though it have to be that.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
Say, this is gonna be a blend of surreal horror,
intimate drama, and crypto mythology like we've never seen before.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
That's correct.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
In nineteen twenty four, a lonely logger seeking gold and
a fresh start a fresh start in the Canadian Willderness,
but instead of striking it rich Albert finds himself violently
abducted by a Sasquatch and drag to its cave, where
he meets the creature's mate and their daughter. What unfolds
is the descent into isolation, primal rituals, and what the
film describes as forbidden intimacy and an active creation.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
I'm very glad to be counted among Bobo's friends, but
now I'm glad to not be the sort of friend
that these these clips that you're referring to get shared.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
Amongst not my friends. I mean I just I'd give
them sent to like my page or whatever.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Just random strangers sitting you, Yeah, check this out.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Like they'd be like, they'd be like laughing, going look
at this. Have you seen this one? Have you seen
that one? I'm like, I haven't seen any of them.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
The article is apparently that the filmmakers are aiming to
avoid a campy or irreverent treatment. They want to grounded
sincere sensibility.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
I love that far Oh goodness, But.

Speaker 3 (48:20):
Uh, they're going to explore their visceral themes of desire, otherness,
belongingness with a note within the no holds barred genre framework.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Well that's a new take, it says.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
At its core, the film examines masculinity and sexuality under
pressure and the quiet horror of watching something truly other.
It explores how isolation distortces perception, and how captivity, dependency,
and desire blurred together when you have no one left
and nowhere else to go.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
Well, it seems like, you know, he was never explicit
about that, but John Green did say in multiple interviews
I've heard him say it more than once that he
felt like Austin was trying to intimate him, that he
was abducted to be a mate for the juvenile female,
but that he never like came out and said that.

(49:08):
But you Green somehow got that impression that like, oh,
the old man must have. He might have said that
in his affidavit, something like, you know, maybe they wanted
me to take her away to a better lifestyle or
something like that, but it was never explicit.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Yeah, Roger got the same impression. When Roger Patterson interviewed.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Sounds like these filmmakers picked up on that one element
and thought there's a story there.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
I thought, so, well, that's a pretty common trope, you know,
with apes subducting people for sexual purposes and such, you know.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
Or anything's due, right, do you know? I ca't. We've
Oustmin's rest had done like a hundred times already, Like
that's so obvious, just a great one. I mean, it's
just it's all there lust adventure. Yeah, there is.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
Almost like a reverse sort of like King Kong element
in the Osmin story.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
I may.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
I may actually watch the Ausman story if it comes out.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Yeah, I can't wait to see it. It could be good.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
At least, you know, at least it's not the same
sort of thing where there's a sasquatch who's been wronged
and it's going to go slaughter everybody, right, you know,
at least it's not fat. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot
and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back
after these messages.

Speaker 3 (50:30):
Or was that the size like gorillas? Or there's the
skull in China may shake up timeline of human evolution.
They're both good.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Well, what do you prefer, Bobo?

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Should we do the ancient skull, sure, I can start it. Yeah.
In nineteen ninety and Hubei, China, they found a skull
that had been deformed during fossilization, and it was hard
to gauge what if it was significant or not. But
then they did a new analysis and indicates the skull
belongs to an early branch of a sister lineage to
our species. This finding may shake up the understanding of

(51:00):
how human evolution unfolded over the past billion years or so.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Yeah, I guess it's been tentatively assigned to Homo erectus,
which is kind of cool. I mean that that is
a sister, you know, species to us. And apparently the
analysis suggests that these features differ a little bit from
Homo erectus, pushing it towards like an Asian centered hominin
lineage that would include like Denis Opin's basically, so again,

(51:25):
our family tree is getting bushier by the moment, which
is kind of cool. And I think that you're considering,
especially considering how large Asia is, you know, I think
that we're going to be there's to be a lot
of new discoveries all throughout Asia of hominine fossils scattered
all over the place. That's really going to mean for

(51:46):
us at least to revise human evolution. Now, of course,
I want to point out something real fast because I
do hear a lot of these articles. They have the
big splash, clickbait sort of titles rewriting human evolution. The
human evolution is a fact. It is a fact, but
we're always tweaking it. We're learning more about it, you know.

(52:07):
And so that's why it's evolution is a theory, the
theory of evolution, because we don't have all the wrinkles
worked out of it, and we never will. Probably we
never will. We're always learning more about it. But articles
like this are a great example. We know that humans
have evolved through over time, and now we're learning new

(52:27):
branches in new places that are unexpected. We don't know.
We don't know very much in general. I mean, remember,
like we didn't know that humans evolved at all until
the late eighteen hundreds, like one hundred and fifty years ago,
when the first Neanderthal skull was uncovered. And so obviously
there's be a lot of tweaking to our current model,

(52:48):
and this is a wonderful example of that.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Yeah, I wish, I wish there was a they had
like a digital recreation of it so you can see
what they're because they say it's like a low like
of a long, low skull with a receding forehead behind
a strong bridge brow ridge. And the esteridated brain size
is the largest so far for any hominint of that era.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Which falls in line with the Homo long guy or longi,
or the Denisovans as well. And of course remember Neanderthals
had bigger brains than we do. Yeah, they just used
them different, you know. So apparently there are five different
families or branches, they call them clades, but like the
five different there are at least five major clades of

(53:32):
Homo with large brains, diverging from about about a million
years ago or more Homo sapiens, because we didn't we
weren't around quite then, you know, but we were lining up,
you know, Homo loongi and Denisovans, Neanderthals, Heidelbergensis, and homoerectus
all living in that general area.

Speaker 1 (53:52):
Apparently, as I understated, the oldest human remains, you know,
anatomically modern human remains in Asia were in the Xeron
Cave and xeren Dong in China, and those are roughly
one hundred and ten thousand years old. You know what
we would consider, you know, anatomically modern Homo sapiens. Now
that's some research I did about a year ago, referencing

(54:14):
some things for a presentation I gave last year. So
maybe there is some older remains or something like that.
But I think it confuses people because whenever science, and
very often the popular science media, refers to something as human,
they're really just broadening that to anything within the genus Homo,
which is technically correct, but I think most lay people

(54:35):
when they hear human, they think Homo sapiens. So when
they read that there's a million year old human skull,
they think, oh, well, humans were around a million or
a million plus years ago, which pushes back the timeline
of Homo sapiens. It's like, no, no, no, it's just
a different form of Homo, which is a different form
of human, but it's not human as in terms of

(54:56):
Homo sapiens sapiens.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
No.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
No, that's very very confused. And that's when you know,
if sasquatches end up being some sort of hominin species,
they could be argued as being human and I'm sure
though the whole forest friend folks are just going to
see see told you say, yeah, not really, not really,
But for whatever it's worth, I believe that the oldest
human fossils are about three hundred thousand years old. But

(55:21):
that's not Asia. That was in Morocco or northern Africa
somewhere if I remember.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
Right, Yeah, I was gonna add was where that skull
was found? Is where we filmed the Urine Chinese Bigfoot episode?

Speaker 2 (55:33):
Yeah, yeah, Whoba Province right, We're in Shinoja, Sia National Park.
I love, you know, I would have to say that.
I don't get me wrong. I love playing my guitar.
But if I had college to do over again, I
don't know if I would major in music. I probably
a major in something you know, equally useless for making money, paleoanthropology.

(55:53):
But who knew that I would end up where I
am today? Though, so I certainly did.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
You didn't need to. You probably would be doing Bigfoot stuff.
You did. That.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
That's true, that's true, That's very true.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
I never wish things were different because it wouldn't be
the same. Now.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Yeah, well, we do have a host of questions left
over from our last Q and A session, And for
those of you who are not pigeons, if you like
Bobo stories, our last Q and A session saw a
massive smattering of epic sasquat stories that Bobo investigated. It's
definitely worth hearing. A lot of the listeners loved it,
but we probably should get to those overflow questions.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Yeah, the floodgates opened last time. For sure.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
He launched into an epic series of stories.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
All right, Well, let's go over to the members. Bob
get us out of here.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
All right, okay, folks, thanks for joining us again. If
you liked it, hit like, hit, share, spread the word.
We appreciate it, and until next week, y'all keep it squatchy.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you
get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram
at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on
Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,

(57:16):
and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag
Bigfoot and Beyond.
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