November 24, 2025 • 54 mins
Cliff Barackman, James "Bobo" Fay, and Matt Pruitt speak with Joel Thomas, an Oklahoma-based researcher who has worked with both the BFRO and the NAWAC. Joel discusses his experiences in the field and the multi-year investigation of an active location that yielded an excellent footprint cast!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Big food and be on with Cliff and Bulbo.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
These guys are your favorites, so like say subscribe and raid.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
It five star and me.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Just on us today and listening.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Watching Limb always.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Keep its watching.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Boobo Fay.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Greetings, Bilbo, how you doing? Man?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Good? It's up Cliff.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
All sorts of stuff just up to my neck and
various things, various Bigfoot related you know, distractions all distracted
me from the other Bigfoot related things I need to
get done. What about you.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I just got back last night from going down seeing
my mom and brothers and stuff, and yeah, just getting
back in the swing of things.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Nice swinging good. Well, we have a guest today. Should
just hop on that.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, yeah, I don't have anything new to that.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
All right, very good, very good. Our guest today has
been Bigfoot in a long time. I don't know how long.
I know very little about this guy. Right here, there's
a really really nice cast out of Oklahoma that this
guy pulled a number of years ago. I think it's
absolutely fantastic. Matt Prouton, He's been a friend of yours
for a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Is that corraged.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh yeah, I've known Joel for like fourteen years. We
met he attended to be a FRORO expedition that I
led in southeast Oklahoma in twenty eleven, and then we've
been very close friends and field partners ever since. Like
pretty much anytime I've been in that part of the country,
I've been out in the field with Joel. So we've
had a lot of experiences together out of the field
over the years.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Fantastic. This is Joel Thomas out of Oklahoma. Joel. Thanks
so much for coming on the podcast with us.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Thanks for having me. Been looking forward to this talk.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, thanks for coming aboard. Matt Speaks Holady. So I'm
looking forward to getting some info out of some knowledge.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I don't think that I'm going to be able to
say anything that you don't already know, but we'll see.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
All right, You've been working a lot of different cases,
and certainly you know them a lot better than any
of us here would. So how long have you been
doing this big foot thing?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So I kind of got into it, like a lot
of people, you know, just by watching Monster Quest and
Unsolved Mysteries and anything that had a sasquatch related stuff
on TV. But when I grew up in northern California
and then moved to Oklahoma and around two thousand and
then I found out that they're around here, which kind
(02:31):
of blew my mind because I was always of the
thought that it was a Pacific Northwest kind of thing.
So funny enough watching Finding Bigfoot one night, you know,
at the end it said, hey, sign up for these
BFRO expeditions and stuff. So I got online and I
was like, oh, my goodness. Told my wife I said
there's one here in Oklahoma, and she's like, oh, you
(02:52):
got to go to it. And she ended up getting
me it for my birthday. And so that's kind of
how it all started and how I got to meet
Matt Bruit. You know, I guess I hit the lottery
in that respect, because no other better expedition to go
on than Matt Breud.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
So where'd you live in Norco?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I was around Well, the specific town was called Loyalton.
It's a little south of Trucky or a little north
of Trucky, I'm sorry, And uh, kind of in the
Tahoe area.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
So oh, so you're right, you're in prime squash hab
attack grown.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Uh didn't know that though.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Uh so, tell us about that first expedition that you
went on, like, what did anything actually happen? Did you
hear or see anything? And tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Well, not, I wasn't in the group, but uh Matt
had a group of folks with him that we believe
was approached and maybe heard some vocalizations one night, maybe
a whistle, and so it was. It wasn't a whole lot,
but uh boy, it was so much fun. It was
a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
So if you didn't have the bug already, you certainly
got it theresolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
And uh so I knew immediately that I had to
get some friends involved in this so I can get out,
and uh that's exactly what I did. So Matt got
me on taking reports for the BFRO, and uh that
kind of put me on some areas and kind of
going through some witnesses and you know, just kind of
calling through and I ended up getting quite a few
(04:23):
pretty good witnesses. And and there was a couple that
were like within a quarter mile of each other and
both had prints, one had a sighting, and so I
immediately kind of feeling this might be a really good area.
And so I ended up bringing some friends and kind
of frequenting that area as much as I could, and
we ended up started getting quite a bit of activity.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Where was that at?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
The closest town is Tallaheena, Oklahoma, And so it's a
little outside of Tallahena in the mountains.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
It's right there in the Washington it's close to Hannaby
or Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
So how far of a drive is that for you?
How long does it take you out there?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
It takes me a little over an hour.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
That's not bad at all.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
No, And we have some spots that are even closer
that we've had some pretty good activity.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
This one particular spot that you mentioned here, was it
one of the first BFRO areas you started looking into
after you started taking reports.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
This is the first witness led area that we started
to or I started to kind of really look into
because they were the most credible witnesses that I had
talked to. Of course, I had quite a few witnesses
that wouldn't meet with me. You know, they wanted to
tell me their story and they wanted to get that
off their chest, but they really didn't want to pursue
(05:40):
it any deeper than that. But this particular area had
two different witnesses, Like I said, they had contacted me
and they proved to be very, very valuable.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Well, what was their story then? What would intrigue you
in Because you know, if you're a BFR investigator, especially
in a state like Oklahoma, Yeah, you kind of have
your choice of various witnesses to choose from who you
want to reach out to. What was it about one
of their sightings or encounters or something going on, like
basically tell us what was going on there that drew
you to start wanting to look into this particular area.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, So the first witness, his name was Josh. He
had a little medical issue that he couldn't work real well.
So every day when his daughter got home from school,
they would go on a walk because he wasn't supposed
to be off by himself very much because he had
seizures and stuff. And they'd go on a walk and
(06:34):
they would walk down this, for lack of better term,
a whole little old log road, and they would walk
to this pond and it'd get him some exercise and
they would spend some time together. And one particular day
they went out there to this pond and he said
when they got there, he immediately seen something go down
on the other side of the pond, and his daughter
(06:58):
just kept playing. She didn't notice it, and so he's like, oh,
I think that was a bear. So he's like, I'm
just going to sit here and wait for it to
come out, you know, because it didn't leave. It went
down in these reads that were in the pond, and
pretty soon, all of a sudden he noticed a rock
comes thrown tossed into the water, which got his daughter's attention,
(07:20):
and pretty soon another rock come out, and he's like,
what in the heck, you know, he's thinking, you know,
bears can't throw rocks. What's going on here? And about
that time, it stood up and it ran over the
pond dam and just went crashing through the woods. He's like,
you know, making all kinds of ruckus and noise, and
so he sent in this report. Well, it was about
(07:43):
two or three weeks before I can get over there
to meet with him. By the time I got over
there to meet with him, he's like, hey, I had
another encounter. And I said, oh yeah, he says, yeah,
same place, same thing. We were walking this day. We
were a little later getting out there, so it was
almost dusk and some started paralleling us walking in the
(08:07):
woods next to us, and my daughter got scared, and
all of a sudden, it started throwing rocks at us.
But he said, this time it wasn't like what was
happening in the pond. It wasn't just tossing the rocks in.
He said, these were zinging, you know. He said they'd
throw them much harder, and so I immediately decided we needed
to leave, and so we started walking back to the house,
(08:29):
and it just followed them all the way to this
one spot where there was a dump. And when it
got to the dump, you know, it's just a place
in the woods where folks would throw their garbage, you know,
and or like their metal garbage and stuff like that,
not so much food garbage. But once it got to
that little clearing, it stopped and left them alone. So
(08:50):
it basically escorted them ount and I was like wow.
I was like, man, this is like all classic stuff here,
and so we you know, I did that investigation, and
literally three days later, another guy sent me in the
report where he told me he was I was like, man,
this might be really close to Josh. But he told
me to come a whole different route. So I followed
(09:13):
his route because I don't want to miss his house.
And then I come up to his road. I was like, ah,
I gotta keep going. I got to see how far
Josh lives from here. And literally it is one turn,
one turn on the black top and boom, there's Josh's house.
So I went back and met with this fella, and
he was a preacher and he would was building a
gate to his place, and he noticed these footprints in
(09:37):
the mud and they had about a six foot stride.
Maybe I think that's what he told me. I have
to look back at my notes, but and there was
three of them come out of the woods, walked the
road for three steps, and then went back in the woods.
And I got a picture of his foot next to him,
and he had sized twelve boots and you can tell
(09:58):
it's it's quite a bit bigger. He's like, what could
this be? You know? And I think someone told him.
I was like, oh, that's probably a sasquatch, and he's like, what,
we don't have those things. And he had just moved
here from another state. And so anyway, he decided to
put in a report. And so when I met with
him and was talking to him, I was like, yeah, well,
(10:18):
I got another witness in this local area and I
asked him, I said, do you know this stuffle the
named Josh, And he's like, no, I don't know him.
I haven't lived here very long. One of the things
he told me when I came, he's like, hey, don't
come with anything like bigfoot or bfro on your truck
or anything. Because I got some neighbors that asked me
not to turn in a report on this. He said
(10:41):
that he sees it walking the roads every once in
a while and he don't want people in here looking
for it. Anyway. I asked him if he knew the
other witness, and he had not, and so he literally
lived just one road turn away from the other guy,
and so that kind of put us on the on
the area. And from there I started going out there
(11:04):
bringing a new friend. I was like trying to find
friends that I knew that they were into the bigfoot
subject and stuff, and so I talked a few friends
into going out with me. One night, a friend named
Dave Anderson went with me, and I think the first
night we went there, we didn't have anything. We went
(11:26):
back again the next night and we started getting this
low moan sound. I just thought it was a cow
or something. And so the next day I called Josh
and I said, hey, is there cows in there, because
it's on the side of the mountain and he's like, oh, no,
there's no cows over here. I said, are you sure?
I said, I go because where I heard a cow
(11:47):
And he's like, no, I promise you there's no cows
in this area. He says the closest cows would be
down in the valley. So a couple of weekends later,
I bring another friend in the area. Dave couldn't go,
so I bring a friend, John Sullivan, and we're sitting
there in the dark and I said, hey, I just
want you to listen, just listen for any kind of response,
And I did a wood knock on a it's kind
(12:08):
of like a drum kit wood wood thing, and so
I did a wood knock and almost immediately we got
a rock clack return. And I could tell John was
hooked from the moment, and he literally was. So he
was the first of us to get thermal and all
kinds of equipment.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
He was found and determined we were going to figure
this out. So yeah, I ended up getting quite a
few friends into it from there, so.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
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Speaker 4 (14:35):
How often would you make it out to the property
or we were actually let me ask you, were you
working that guy's property or just areas nearby? Or how
did that work?
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah, so we worked the property where Josh lived in
a little bit of the surrounding properties, but we would
get out that summer because of that happening, We probably
were out there every weekend, maybe out of fifty two weekends,
maybe forty six forty eight weekends. I mean, we really
(15:04):
were out there because it was and we had an
activity almost every one of those, not every one of them.
Seemed like anytime we had a full moon it was
kind of a dead night. But for the most part,
we had either vocalizations or we started getting rock throws,
we'd have a tree pushovers, all kinds of stuff happened there.
(15:27):
There's a cabin in there. It got slapped a few times.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, And I can vouch for how hard they were
hitting it because we were communicating all the time. I
think by that point I had already moved from Oklahoma,
but you know, Joel and I would talk all the time,
and so I was getting regular updates about that property.
In those situations, and those guys were hitting it hard.
It'd be like, hey, who wants to stay up late tonight?
And they'd run over there and stay out there all
night and then come home in the morning and do whatever.
(15:50):
But they were out there a lot, really diligently.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
When you got the cabin slapped, was did you guys, like,
would it be like where someone's head was that they
were land like, did it seemed like where they knew?
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Like did.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
It seemed like they that they knew where you were
inside the cabin, like would hit where you were sleeping
or sitting.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
We weren't in the cabin. We were probably two hundred
yards from the cabin, sitting at this pond, and the
cabin's up this road on top of this hill. And
almost like clockwork, when we were there, they would there's
a ravine there and we could almost hear them coming
up out of the ravine. You know, we'd start hearing
movement over there, and they would come up to the
(16:28):
pond and kind of work from left to right around
the pond, and I think that they would kind of
observe us from that position. But that night it was
me and Dave Anderson, and we heard something coming up
out of the ravine, but then it went quiet for
a long time, and then all of a sudden we
hear we'd hear what sounded like something just walloped that
(16:51):
wall of that cabin, and then we heard a take
off run and going back down the ravine, and we
could hear rock slides and stuff like that, you know,
where it was just scramble and back down them into
the ravine.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Let's talk about this cast a little bit because that
property is that where your fantastic cast came from.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yes, so one night again bringing in a new friend.
Bringing in a friend that night is so it is
his first time ever going and I told him, I
was like, it's pretty much downhill for here for you, buddy,
unless you see one. So as we were walking in,
we come across a great print on that road and
(17:30):
we didn't cast it immediately. I just kind of left it,
and I knew that I was going to come back
early in the morning to cast it.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
So and I have to congratulate you because one of
the one of the successes here with this particular footprint
is first of all, it's excellent. I have not seen
a better cast out of Oklahoma. It is really good there.
But also in the middle of it, of interest, I
think you're very very lucky to get it at all, frankly,
and because it had to have been very fresh, because
(18:02):
in the middle of the print there's a couple of
things going on in it. In fact, when I'll get
to that minute. But first of all, a scorpion walked
across it as you watched it. Is that correct? As
you're looking at the print in the ground.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, so we're we're all huddled around it. There's four
or five of us there that night, and as we're
looking at it, we observed a scorpion come walking across
and walk right through it. And even in the in
the in the cash you can see the trail that
it left, you know, from its dragging its tail through there.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Yeah, now we'll go ahead and post set on a
prootal post set, probably just for the members, I guess,
another reason to be a member if you want to
be a member of big Foot and Beyond. But on
that cast, on the lower left hand side is a line.
It looks from from our perspective looking at the picture
it's on the lower left hand side of the heel,
going diagonally up to the right, about almost to the
(18:56):
ball of the foot, I guess. And there's a line
in the middle with small little scraggly's going out on
either side, and that is the trail at the scorpion
left and underneath that are a couple of little round
marks basically on the heel, which is where unfortunately, I'm
like an OUCHI here Joel that you guys made a mistake.
You touched the footprint before you cast it. But You're
(19:19):
not alone in that. All sorts of people have done that,
some of the greats. I mean, peterburn cast has finger
marks all over it, Bob titmas stuff down in high
and Palm has finger marks on it. That's one of
the things that happens with footprints in the ground. But
you told me at the time, and I remember working
with you about this ten years ago or more, that
you were curious how soft the soil was. Is that right?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
That's exactly I was like, Oh, I'm going to get
to finally tell him. And so when we found this
what I went back to cast it. So we were
in kind of like a mini drought for around here.
We usually get a lot of rain, and I think
would have been like a couple months since we've got
any rain. So the ground was super hard, and I
tried to jump and with all my weight and I'm
(20:05):
way two thirty five and to make a print with
my boot not right next to it, but you know,
just down from it, in the same substrate, and I
could barely make a dent in the ground. And if
you look at the the picture of the print before
we cast it, you can see that the soil is
all crust is all broken up around the edges of
(20:27):
it and stuff, and so I was like, I wonder
how long this has been here? And so actually the
you know, yeah, I touched it like right in the middle,
and if you when the members see it, you'll see
that scorpion line, and it's just above the scorpion line,
so in the heel area. I think it's a dog
print or something.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
So you know, it's gonna say it kind of looks
like a cat print right here.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
So I think it's a dog because at that time,
you know, I had tried putting some cane cameras out
over there, and I think someone threw some hunting dogs
out or some hunting dogs were lost and staying at
that pond, and I kept getting those dogs on my
game camera.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Is there a big casts there?
Speaker 1 (21:11):
There's reports of them. I haven't seen any, but I
know that there's pretty good sized bobcats in the area.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
But how big was the cast?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I thought it was like fourteen, but I think Cliff
didn't you major it at like twelve?
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Oh, it's a little bit. I think it's a little
bit longer than that. But you know, the picture I'm
looking at, it has a scale item right behind it.
It's this matter of counting the little squares, I guess.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
So interestingly enough, that night that we found the cast,
we heard a dog get attacked down in the ravine
and so and then there was only one dog around,
you know, and so I don't know, I mean, there
was a lot that happened that night, but that was
one of the things.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
So a dog did get attacked, Like what did you hear? Oh,
it just screamed and there was a squad scream or
the dog the dog, you know, Yeah, it sounded pretty horrible.
You could tell something got him.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
The track's about thirteen or fourteen inches long, depending on
where you want to take the measurements from, so whatever
that's worth there.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, I measured it fourteen or fourteen and a half
I think, is what I wrote on the back. But
you know, I know that the hill was messed up, so.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Well there's two that you got a left or is
it just like a reversed.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah, one, right. We did find some disturbance, so that
was like in the edge of this road and coming
off of this hill we could see where maybe another
track or something, or where it had stepped previous and
then of course we looked for tracks on down. It
was like going down into that ravine. That's the direction
(22:52):
it was headed. We did look for other tracks along
this trail, so it was going down into a trail.
So that step was very you know, it was like
it was headed into a trail.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I'll make sure all these pictures are available, because there's
pictures of the track in the ground from a couple
of angles. There's a great picture of when you first
discovered the track, and so it's illuminated at night with
a red headlamp. And then pictures of the cast after
Joel pulled it in. Pictures of the cast as measured
by Cliff. Now, wasn't it the case, like you couldn't
find plaster and you had to find a different material.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah. So if you remember, I called you like first
thing in the morning, hoping that I didn't wake you up,
because we stayed out that night till about three or
three thirty four, and I just went home, got a
couple of hours sleep, and I think I was up
around six. I was just so jazzed up to get
back out there and cast this before it got ruined.
And I didn't even know how to cast. You know,
(23:49):
I had never even practiced. I haven't done any of that,
and so I was like, I remember getting on the
PFRO website because I remember I had seen something on
there about how to cast, and so I kind of
read that and I was like, I gotta called Matt.
Matt will know what to do. And so I think
you just told me. He's like, yeah, you just got
to get whatever you get. And so I went to
a local hardware store and all I could find that
(24:11):
I was like, I didn't want like regular quick creek
because it has pebbles and stuff in it, so I
bought some. It's like an anchoring concrete. It's just super
fine concrete and so but it was like, had no
gravel and stuff in it. And anyway, it's just by
sheer luck that it turned out the way it did,
because I had no idea what I was doing.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, it looks fantastic. Just whatever that's worth.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Well, I appreciate it. Yeah, And of course Matt put
me in touch with you, which then I mailed that
to you, and you, I think, made some copies of
it and gave me some copies which I ended up
giving to I gave one to the witness that kind
of put us on the area. And then I gave
another one to my friend John, who he pretty much
(24:59):
went out with me almost every weekend, so he was,
you know, a very dedicated guy.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
So well, the latex mold is still in good conditions.
So if you ever want another copy, let me know.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah, man, I may it may take you up on
that and just buy some.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
I'm trying to go back to my memory because I
do remember other things happened that night, but I'm sure
the audience would would love to hear about that, because
I don't even remember all the details of the stuff
that happened.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
So that night was probably by far my greatest encounter
and I ever. And so not only did we find
the print, but as we went in, we split up.
Like I said, there was five of us, so we
split up into two groups. We had radios and kind
of sat on different ends of the pond, and I
was sitting on the pond dam with a couple other
(25:44):
fellows and so we sat there for a long time
and nothing happened. We did hear that dog get attacked,
and then I decided I needed to get up and
stretch my legs and so I did, and then Josh
he was like, ah, I need to stand up too. Well, Josh,
I was standing right next or sitting next to a
big old cedar tree. When Josh stood up, he was
(26:05):
kind of out in the open, and all of a sudden,
something just literally feet away, six feet away at the
bottom of the pondam just got up and ran away
on two feet and so went trucking back to that ravine.
You know, the ravine was safety.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
So six feet away from you or your friend.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
From both of us. So we were just sitting next
to each other. But it didn't see me stand up
because of that cedar tree. But Josh stood up. There
was three of us there, and then Josh stood up,
and it freaked it out and it bolted off down
into that ravine.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
What do you think it was doing.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I think it was sneaking up on us. Be honest
with you, I don't know. I mean, I have a
you know, I can't prove this by no means. I
think it was a juvenile that we were dealing with there.
Josh had seen it in a tree once and so
he said it was about five six foot tall. What
made the print may not have been him because he
(27:05):
would also tell us about you know, he would hear others. Well,
he actually had a bluff charge at one time, which
I didn't believe him to be honest with you. But
the more I was there and the more things that happened,
I started to leave him. I just thought there's no
way that all this could be happening, you know. And
so so there was a bigger one in the area.
(27:25):
But I do think that we were dealing with a juvenile.
And what makes me think that, Well, he's seen it
in the tree and the size, he said. But I've
always just felt like it had to be like a
juvenile that was more curious than others. You know. Well, no,
it made me think of like two other stories. You know.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
There's the story from Area X where he had gotten
right behind out behind his tent and you remember, like
the view was obscured, and so he kept saying, hey,
I'm hearing something back here, and they were like, we
don't see anything behind your tent with the thermal. Maybe
it's a raccoon or a possum or armadillo. And then
it stood up and they saw it. And then there
was an expedition that I did in twenty eleven in
(28:03):
Georgia where we had a little bit of action in
this one draw and for a couple of nights, and
so one of the final nights, I'd put a group there.
It was mostly women and two guys and they just
brought camp chairs and sat and I just told them like, yeah,
let the women talk and sing and make a lot
of noise, and so they did that for we were
(28:23):
probably out there for like three hours, and they didn't
have any optics, so no thermals or night vision, but
they were just sat there in the dark and let
the girls talk and sing. And after hours it was
like nothing was going on, and they said, all right, well,
I guess it's time to go back to camp. And
they all kind of stood up at once. And my
friend Kevin Zork, who's he was the fire chief in
Nag's Head, North Carolina on the Outer Banks, he was
(28:45):
there in that group, and he said, the brush next
to them, same thing like six ten feet away, exploded
and this big, huge thing took off running up the
draw and they it terrified them because they were like,
how did that thing get so close to us? And
we had no clue it was here, but it was
the same reaction when everyone stood up, it's like, oh,
time to go.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, that's exactly. I mean, we never heard it at all.
So was it already there when we got there and
it just hunkered down? Or did it sneak in on us?
I couldn't tell you, but I just that's exactly what
it is, just like stood up and exploded and took
off running down to this ravine.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Yeah, Bobo and I had something like that happened to
both of us at the water spot that one night.
You remember that, Bobo? Oh yeah, yeah, something was sneaking
up from the ravine to us, and Bobo heard it
come in and included me in on it. And then
as we we didn't stand up, but I sat up
because we're just lying on the road. I sat up,
and when it did, it started making a huffing, puffing
(29:45):
sort of noise like that, and then stomping its way
down into the ravine. I wonder what that is, you know,
trying to sneak up on us like that.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
They don't like it when when you call them out
when they're trying to be sneaky. Who does.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and bogo,
we'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
That wasn't all that happened that night either, And so
once it ran away, we sat there for a good
little bit and then we started getting Ohio house from
that ravine. We got I think two of them, and
I think they were maybe two or three in a series,
you know, like a whoa, whoa. So in that one night,
(30:36):
we just had so many awesome things happened, you know.
It was didn't sleep that two hours that I went
home and went to bed.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Does that property where you got the track from, does
it still have activity or is it kind of died
away or have you just as your attention been brought
somewhere else, whatever happened with that property, because that was
what that was in twenty twelve, I.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Think yeah, it did eventually d wind out and we
got less and less and pretty much we stopped going there.
We have went back somewhat recently and thought we had
and may have had a encounter and it was very interesting,
but we were unable to verify what we see. To
(31:19):
put it plainly, we thought, number one, we thought there
was someone at the cabin, so we walked up there
to see if there was anyone in the area, and
we were going to leave and we get up to
the top of the hill and my friend looking through
a thermal and he's like, oh, stop, I think there's
someone there looking at us. I was unable to get
(31:40):
up high enough on this road to see what he
was looking at, and so we backed away and we left,
and as we were leaving, he's like, you know, I
don't remember seeing any clothes. I don't remember seeing any
facial features. He says, it was just a big uniform
hot spot anyway, So we bounced it around and I
(32:03):
was like, well, why did you not see? We have
really good thermals. We have a they're like the sixty
series and stuff, so that you know, they got really good.
I mean you could see hair on some mammals with them.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
So I was like, you.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Didn't see any facial features. He's like, I didn't see
any facial features or any folds in the in the clothes.
So I was like, could you have seen the back
of a sasquatch maybe watching the cabin? And that's when
we're like, oh, my gosh, maybe that's what we see.
Maybe we snuck in there and it was watching the
cabin because there was someone at the cabin and we
(32:38):
snuck up on it. We have went back and tried
to recreate it, and unfortunately we haven't been able to
determine whether or not what we've seen was a guy
or it was a saasquar. So we just have to
leave it asnown.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Sounds like you need to keep on working that spot.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Man, Oh we're gonna walk. We have started working a
little bit of the surrounding areas a little more since
in that ravine that they were always come out of
as a couple of artesian wells, you know, they were
just so that year that we had all that drought,
there was two very large, six foot diameter, nice cold
(33:18):
water in the middle of the summer natural wells in
that in that ravine, So I'm pretty sure that's what
was keeping them there of it. Now the water's so
readily available all around, so I don't know if that's
what made them move on or what.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, that's a really good point to bring up, is
you know, in these places where there's so much activity
that seems to be concentrated, Like the first time that
I went down to Scout where I held the expedition
in twenty eleven, Joel met me there to scout with me,
and that was, you know, the year prior to Joel
casting that track. But there was a big drought. It
was very hot, the creeks were almost like bone dry,
(33:55):
and then you know some of the rivers were pretty
darn low, and then we were near a lake. But man,
you know, we saw bobcats in the daylight, you know,
two days in a row. Basically, because anywhere that there
was water, when you walked up on it, you were
going to see animals. I mean every puddle you could
toss a rock and a puddle and six cotton mouse
(34:15):
would come out of that puddle. It was crazy like
because it was so little water. And so I absolutely
think Joel's spot on with that that like during those
Southeast Oklahoma it's brutally hot, and then you get in
those drought conditions and like if you find cold, fresh
running water, like you got to stick very very close
to it because it might be a long distance before
you find another substantial source of it.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Now, was that just a typical of that area or
is that specifically that year because you mentioned the drought.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
It was basically that year because I've been waiting for
that scenario to play out again since, and it hasn't.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Yeah, because other year.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I mean there's times Joel and I've been an Area
ACTS and just sit in a torrential downpour for a.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Day, two days or five.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
You show up to a bone dry camp and then
within hours like there's you know, foot and a half
deep water all through camp except for the little high
point that the cabin's on. So it does when it's
a regular year or a rainy year, it rains a
lot in southeast Oklahoma. But yeah, those drought conditions those years,
and you remember the last one of the last years
that you and I were in Area X, it was
(35:21):
really hot, the heat index and the drought was such
that I don't know if it was technically a drought,
but it was definitely a dry season and extremely hot,
and like midsummer it looked like autumn because the heat
stress was killing the leaves on all the trees. So
you're down there in the summertime and everything's like auburn
and gold and red is crazy.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, exactly. And and you know, even the the rivers
in that time were also very down, and there would
be stretches of no water and there'd just be big puddles,
you know, or big pools now.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Were there are other things that happened, Like I'm trying
to remember the chronology of you know, after the track
was cast and you know, I know it did decline,
but were there other things that happened on the way
to it being sort of just totally quiet there?
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Well, I did have a I don't want to call
it a sighting. I seen something on the pond dam
in the lightning strike. And it wasn't like we were
having big lightning, but you know, the atmospheric lightning, and
I seen two dark figures on the pond dam. And
then a few moments later we get another atmospheric type
(36:28):
of lightning where it just lights up the whole place.
It's almost like it's daylight, you know, and the dark
figures are gone. And that that particular night, we did
have other things that followed that that made me believe
that what I seen was of the Sasquatch. You know,
everything got quiet again, and we decided, hey, let's walk
(36:50):
up to the cabin. So we walked up this road
and we got just a little ways up the road
and we had a rock fly just a few feet
over our head and strike a tree in front of us.
I mean, whatever through it. It is like it through
it with some velocity because we could hear the rock
go by us. You know, we didn't find the rock,
(37:13):
but we did look for it. But when it hit
that tree, I would say it is as big as
a probably a softball. That's the only time I've been
at that area where I thought, I think we might
need to get out of here, and that the bad
thing was is whatever through that. We had to walk
back by it because we had walked past it and
(37:34):
it threw it over our heads from our back to
our front. And so that's the only time I've left
that area with lights on.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
So this this area, it's probably safe to say that
this was one of those long term witness situations where
the thing was hanging around, and there was probably indications
that it was hanging around, and maybe your presence as
an investigator kind of solidified that for the witness, for
the person living there. After speaking to the witness and
after your experiences on this property, what are some of
(38:04):
the other behaviors that are probably but not for sure,
but or maybe for sure are probably attributed to the
sasquatches being there and examples. Okay, tree knocks and vocalizations,
those are obvious ones. But what are some of the
perhaps less obvious signs that these people or you either
(38:25):
observed or heard about while there.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Tree pushovers? We had quite a few trees get pushed
over and limb breaks and snaps. Sometimes they would sneak
up on us and not want to be heard, you know.
And one night was really interesting. We could hear them
kind of soft loop back and forth to each other.
You know, you'd hear a little whoop from over here,
(38:50):
and then a few seconds later you could hear another
one from another little area, and that was pretty neat.
But and then there was other nights where they wanted
to know that, you know, that they were there, and
they were snapping limbs off and just making a ruckus
as they come up out of the ravine.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
So did you ever find signs of these broken trees?
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (39:11):
What did they look like?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I got a good picture of one and it's it's
a good sixteen seventeen feet off the ground, I think
is what we measured. It's about the size of a
Louisville slugg or bat in circumference at the end, you know,
just snapped right off the pine tree limb. We found
a few that were kind of the break twist, you know,
(39:35):
the classic got the classic twist to it. But never
was they wile to really find any of the trees
pushed over it. We'd hear them and then we'd come
back and look for the trees and we couldn't find
the trees. We'd come across trees that were down, but
you know, it's the forest. There's trees. Yeah, there's trees everywhere.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Did the property owners live on the property.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
They lived really close to the property. They lived by
the black Top. We would walk in, we'd park at
his house and we'd walk in probably half a mile
from his place. You know.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Okay, so they just owned a bunch of property and
that their home was next to the road for convenience.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Anything happened at their house. Things get moved around, or
their house gets slapped from the outside or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Nope, he never had that. He said that they're On
multiple occasions he'd be outside grilling or something in the
evening and he said it sounded like someone was building
a house out in the woods. You know, the wood knocks.
He always talked about like every once in a while
he thought a mail was in the area, and he
said the woods would change, you know, he said things
(40:44):
always seemed a little more tense around there, talking about
like the wood knox would be louder and the vocalizations
would be louder.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
They wouldn't see deer or with the deer coming into
the yard and like hide out.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah there was deer around, but uh, he'd never mentioned
anything like that.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
So was there What about seasonality? How that how that
plan the things?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
That was pretty much year round we were having stuff
And like I said, the only time that we really
go in there and not have anything would be a
full moon night. And uh, you know how them full
moon nights are is just the visibility so well, And
I was equated it they could see us, you know,
they didn't need to approach us to see us or something.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
You've been big footing now for over a decade. So
have you had the opportunity to investigate other long term
witness properties And I know you were in in you know,
they need w a C with every X and stuff.
But that's what I'm talking about, and I'm talking about
other places that is kind of similar to this, this
initial property that you were working.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Unfortunately, no, I have not been able to find another
spot like that. I mean, we have some other areas
that we we hit and we'd have a little bit
of activity or we'd have a long distant howl or
something from there. And we've had a few places where
we had rock throws and stuff like that, but I
wouldn't call it like you know, it's very hit or
(42:11):
miss whether we get activity there. And we've kind of
been in a drought for a while. We haven't had
much activity in quite quite some time, maybe a year
or two.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
A big Foot trout, not a water drought then.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Yeah, yeah, big fit drought. And we have here recently
had a place where we've started to get wood knocks again.
So maybe maybe the future is starting to turn back up.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
So hopefully stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with
Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages.
So you've had some general success and I know that
we're coming around the end of the hour here. What
sort of advice now that you've been doing it for
(42:59):
a while, what kind of advice would you give to
people who are interested in doing the bigfoot thing, either someone,
because you know, you can give advice to newbies or
oldies or anybody in between. What do you think you
have learned?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Well, I've learned. I've made a lot of mistakes.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
That's how you learned too.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah, there's so many things I wish I'd have done differently,
But I would say some of the advice, like you guys,
give find an area and continue to go to it,
because I think we went to that spot a good
for four or so times before we really started having anything.
But just continue to put yourself in a good place.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
I know a ton of hunters that have been hunting
and they don't think this thing exists, And I always
tell them, well, you're not in the right place. So
if you find a good place, that's that's gonna up
your chances immensely. Well.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
I think you also did a great thing by like
putting together a group of other outdoors folks, you know,
people like who were like minded but also just loved
being outside and exposing them to activity.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Because man like.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I was always just so like wishing I could be there, envious, like,
oh man, I wish I could be a part of
that because you guys were and continue to be. You
and John especially like out so often for all these years.
And that's a really special thing because like when I
think about all my favorite squatching people like you, it's like, oh,
I'd love to be in the field with Joel, but
he's eight and a half hours away, or you know,
(44:27):
Cliff in Bobo across the country. So yeah, I think
having a group of people that you trust and you
get along and you don't argue or fight.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Oh absolutely. And I'll tell you maybe another bit of
advice to just have fun with it, because there's been
I couldn't tell you how many nice we had absolutely
nothing and it's the majority of them. But I always
come home feeling like I had a great time because
I was in the woods with some good friends and
we always have good conversations. You know. Of course when
(44:57):
we're hoping that we have activity, everything's nice and but
you know, eventually you start talking and and uh, it's
just I've never had a bad night in the woods
with my friends.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
So that's what I asked real quick, Joel, what's the
what's the craziest story you heard from a witness that
you found like just like kind of blew you away,
But you found credible.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Oh that I found credible, because I've heard some newsies
that I don't think incredible.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Well, I want to hear one of those next.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Then, So I was at a big Foot conference and
still well, helping a friend out selling some T shirts,
and a lady come up and we got to talking
and she's like, yeah, I'm from Southeast Oklahoma too, And
I was like, oh yeah. I said, have you ever
had any encounters or anything? And she's like, she says, well, yeah,
(45:47):
I've never told this story to anyone. I only recently
told it to my husband. I said, well, you're in
probably the safest place to ever share a story if
you would like to retell it. And she's like, when
I was a young girl on the Black Fork, we
(46:07):
had a birthday party, and so we had like four
or five little girls come and stayed with them, and
they all stayed in the camper, you know, the camping
trailer out there, so that they wouldn't you know, they
could stay up as late as they wanted and they
wouldn't annoy the parents and stuff, and so so they're
(46:29):
staying out in this camper and it got to be
very late and the girl that you know, the birthday girl,
the girl that was telling me the story, decided that
she was super tired and they were winding down any
so she decided that she was going to go in
and sleep on the couch and let the girls just play.
And she opened the door of the camper and was
(46:52):
on our way out and something grabbed her arm and
it had all black fingers said, it looked like almost
a sleeve of hair. The hair came to an end
at the hand, you know, almost like it was a cuff.
But she said, the hand was all black, the nails
were black, and you know, of course, it shocked her
(47:13):
and scared her, and she screamed and slammed the door back,
and when she screamed, it let go over her and
she closed the camper door and locked it. And all
the other girls heard her scream and they looked and
they seem just like a glimpse of what had happened.
And so now you got like five little girls. They're
just scared to death. And this is pre cell phone days,
(47:36):
so they had no way to communicate with the adults
in the house of what had happened. So they all
got up into the top little bunk of this little
camper and huddled there and they were scared, and this
thing started beating the side of the camper and rocking
the camper. It was trying to get in there. And
she said this went on for so long that these
(48:00):
little girls exhausted themselves and passed basically fell asleep. Eventually
it ended they fell asleep. The daylight comes and they're
scared to go outside, you know, and because they don't
know if it's still out there. And she said her
dad came out to the camper and he was cussing
(48:21):
and going on, and she could tell he was very upset,
and so she opened the door and he's like, how
the heck could this thing get out here? And so
the camper was actually moved like thirty feet out into
a field, was all beat up, dense all on the
side of it. And so she retailed what happened, and
(48:41):
she said that no one would believe her except for
her grandpa. Her grandpa used to always tell him like, hey,
you can play here, and you can play in the field,
but don't go up.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
On that hill.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
And so she always figured that after that, that's why
we weren't supposed to go up on that hill.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
That is crazy. It just grabbed your arm and she
screaming to let go.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah, she thinks it scared it. And at the same time,
the door hitting its arm, you know, kind of shocked
it and let go enough that she was able to
get the camper door closed. And she said it was
a type of camper lock that had the button, you know,
and so she pushed the button down same time locking.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (49:23):
I don't see any problem with that. No. Now, as
a closer, I guess for the regular episode, tell us
the most ridiculous story that you absolutely don't believe that
you've heard.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
I love these or you may or may not believe it.
Just wild.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Oh I don't believe this one bit. So so I
was told that this villa was trying to kick a addiction,
and so he went out to his family's cabin which
was out in the woods and was going to live
there for a little while to just kind of break
this habit. So he would go for long walks through
(49:57):
the woods on this trail that was kind of looped
around on the property, and it would come back to
the cabin and he would smoke cigarettes, you know, and
he would walk around and eat smoke cigarettes, and he
would eat Snickers a little like a fun sized Snicker bars.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
You know, I've had I've had Snickers. They're all fund sized.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yes, some some more fun than others. And so he
started seeing glimpses of what he thought were a bigfoot,
and so he would leave a cigarette on a stump
and a lit cigarette by the way, and a fun
sized Snickers, and then he would leave and he would
come back and the cigarette would still be there. He
(50:38):
said he'd left the cigarette because of the smell, and
the snickers would be gone. And then one day he
was out there walking and he didn't have any more snickers,
you know, and so all he had was of a
large Snickers, like a full size Snickers bar.
Speaker 6 (50:58):
A funner size, yeah, the funter size. And so he
was walking on the trail and this little one started
following him, and he was like, oh man, I don't
have any snickers to leave him, and so he stopped
and sat, and then all of a sudden, this female
comes out and is like following the little one which
(51:19):
was following him, and.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
He was like, oh my gosh, what am I going
to do? And so he said he pulled out that
large one put it out towards it, and he said here,
and it kept coming closer, kept coming closer, and finally
grabbed the snickers and then ran away. But then it
turned and it came back, and it put its hands
(51:42):
out like to give him knuckles, and so he gave
him knuckles, and then it turned and walked away back
to the female. And as it got down to the
bottom of the draw with the female, he noticed a
large male at the top of the hill come out,
and they walked up and got met up with the
big one, and they went over the hill and he
(52:04):
never seen them again.
Speaker 4 (52:06):
I believe it like a fist bump.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
In other words, Yeah, squat for a snickers, bubos into it,
Bobo would give him the belly bump.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
Well all right, well, thank you for that so much.
Actually from the right source. I wouldn't have too much
of a problem with that one. I would make me wonder.
But right, I've heard crazier. That's for sure.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
You changed my mind. I believe it.
Speaker 4 (52:32):
I'm not saying I'm not saying, believe the guy. Trust me.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
All right.
Speaker 4 (52:37):
Well, you know we had a lot of you have
a lot more experiences that we want to talk about.
When you're in the n AWAC down at Area X,
and some stuff that happened down there. So why don't
we stick around here for the memo. We'll all stick
around and we'll close this episode down and I will
continue the conversation over the Member episode, which of course
is released every Thursday. If you want to be a
member and get an extra hour of content and get
these kinds of episodes right now with zero commercials, maybe
(53:00):
you should be a member too, listener talking to you
out there on the other side of this machine that
makes podcast noise. Be a member five bucks a month.
You get a bunch of extra stuff from us. You'll
dig it. But Joel, thank you so very much for
spending some time with us.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
I loved it. Appreciate it, guys.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
Thank you Joel. We appreciate it very much. All right, folks,
that's another episode of Bigfoot Beyond with Clifton Bobo and
I always through it behind the controls. So thanks for
joining us. Hit like hit, share us a five star
review and until next week, y'all keep it squatchy.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you
get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram
at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on
Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,
(53:57):
and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag
Bigfoot and Beyond
Big food and be on with Cliff and Bulbo.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
These guys are your favorites, so like say subscribe and raid.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
It five star and me.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Just on us today and listening.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Watching Limb always.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Keep its watching.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Boobo Fay.
Speaker 4 (00:31):
Greetings, Bilbo, how you doing? Man?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Good? It's up Cliff.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
All sorts of stuff just up to my neck and
various things, various Bigfoot related you know, distractions all distracted
me from the other Bigfoot related things I need to
get done. What about you.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I just got back last night from going down seeing
my mom and brothers and stuff, and yeah, just getting
back in the swing of things.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Nice swinging good. Well, we have a guest today. Should
just hop on that.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Yeah, yeah, I don't have anything new to that.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
All right, very good, very good. Our guest today has
been Bigfoot in a long time. I don't know how long.
I know very little about this guy. Right here, there's
a really really nice cast out of Oklahoma that this
guy pulled a number of years ago. I think it's
absolutely fantastic. Matt Prouton, He's been a friend of yours
for a long time.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Is that corraged.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh yeah, I've known Joel for like fourteen years. We
met he attended to be a FRORO expedition that I
led in southeast Oklahoma in twenty eleven, and then we've
been very close friends and field partners ever since. Like
pretty much anytime I've been in that part of the country,
I've been out in the field with Joel. So we've
had a lot of experiences together out of the field
over the years.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Fantastic. This is Joel Thomas out of Oklahoma. Joel. Thanks
so much for coming on the podcast with us.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Thanks for having me. Been looking forward to this talk.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, thanks for coming aboard. Matt Speaks Holady. So I'm
looking forward to getting some info out of some knowledge.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
I don't think that I'm going to be able to
say anything that you don't already know, but we'll see.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
All right, You've been working a lot of different cases,
and certainly you know them a lot better than any
of us here would. So how long have you been
doing this big foot thing?
Speaker 1 (02:10):
So I kind of got into it, like a lot
of people, you know, just by watching Monster Quest and
Unsolved Mysteries and anything that had a sasquatch related stuff
on TV. But when I grew up in northern California
and then moved to Oklahoma and around two thousand and
then I found out that they're around here, which kind
(02:31):
of blew my mind because I was always of the
thought that it was a Pacific Northwest kind of thing.
So funny enough watching Finding Bigfoot one night, you know,
at the end it said, hey, sign up for these
BFRO expeditions and stuff. So I got online and I
was like, oh, my goodness. Told my wife I said
there's one here in Oklahoma, and she's like, oh, you
(02:52):
got to go to it. And she ended up getting
me it for my birthday. And so that's kind of
how it all started and how I got to meet
Matt Bruit. You know, I guess I hit the lottery
in that respect, because no other better expedition to go
on than Matt Breud.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
So where'd you live in Norco?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I was around Well, the specific town was called Loyalton.
It's a little south of Trucky or a little north
of Trucky, I'm sorry, And uh, kind of in the
Tahoe area.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
So oh, so you're right, you're in prime squash hab
attack grown.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Uh didn't know that though.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Uh so, tell us about that first expedition that you
went on, like, what did anything actually happen? Did you
hear or see anything? And tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Well, not, I wasn't in the group, but uh Matt
had a group of folks with him that we believe
was approached and maybe heard some vocalizations one night, maybe
a whistle, and so it was. It wasn't a whole lot,
but uh boy, it was so much fun. It was
a lot of fun.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
So if you didn't have the bug already, you certainly
got it theresolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
And uh so I knew immediately that I had to
get some friends involved in this so I can get out,
and uh that's exactly what I did. So Matt got
me on taking reports for the BFRO, and uh that
kind of put me on some areas and kind of
going through some witnesses and you know, just kind of
calling through and I ended up getting quite a few
(04:23):
pretty good witnesses. And and there was a couple that
were like within a quarter mile of each other and
both had prints, one had a sighting, and so I
immediately kind of feeling this might be a really good area.
And so I ended up bringing some friends and kind
of frequenting that area as much as I could, and
we ended up started getting quite a bit of activity.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Where was that at?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
The closest town is Tallaheena, Oklahoma, And so it's a
little outside of Tallahena in the mountains.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
It's right there in the Washington it's close to Hannaby
or Yeah.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
So how far of a drive is that for you?
How long does it take you out there?
Speaker 1 (05:01):
It takes me a little over an hour.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
That's not bad at all.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
No, And we have some spots that are even closer
that we've had some pretty good activity.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
This one particular spot that you mentioned here, was it
one of the first BFRO areas you started looking into
after you started taking reports.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
This is the first witness led area that we started
to or I started to kind of really look into
because they were the most credible witnesses that I had
talked to. Of course, I had quite a few witnesses
that wouldn't meet with me. You know, they wanted to
tell me their story and they wanted to get that
off their chest, but they really didn't want to pursue
(05:40):
it any deeper than that. But this particular area had
two different witnesses, Like I said, they had contacted me
and they proved to be very, very valuable.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Well, what was their story then? What would intrigue you
in Because you know, if you're a BFR investigator, especially
in a state like Oklahoma, Yeah, you kind of have
your choice of various witnesses to choose from who you
want to reach out to. What was it about one
of their sightings or encounters or something going on, like
basically tell us what was going on there that drew
you to start wanting to look into this particular area.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah, So the first witness, his name was Josh. He
had a little medical issue that he couldn't work real well.
So every day when his daughter got home from school,
they would go on a walk because he wasn't supposed
to be off by himself very much because he had
seizures and stuff. And they'd go on a walk and
(06:34):
they would walk down this, for lack of better term,
a whole little old log road, and they would walk
to this pond and it'd get him some exercise and
they would spend some time together. And one particular day
they went out there to this pond and he said
when they got there, he immediately seen something go down
on the other side of the pond, and his daughter
(06:58):
just kept playing. She didn't notice it, and so he's like, oh,
I think that was a bear. So he's like, I'm
just going to sit here and wait for it to
come out, you know, because it didn't leave. It went
down in these reads that were in the pond, and
pretty soon, all of a sudden he noticed a rock
comes thrown tossed into the water, which got his daughter's attention,
(07:20):
and pretty soon another rock come out, and he's like,
what in the heck, you know, he's thinking, you know,
bears can't throw rocks. What's going on here? And about
that time, it stood up and it ran over the
pond dam and just went crashing through the woods. He's like,
you know, making all kinds of ruckus and noise, and
so he sent in this report. Well, it was about
(07:43):
two or three weeks before I can get over there
to meet with him. By the time I got over
there to meet with him, he's like, hey, I had
another encounter. And I said, oh yeah, he says, yeah,
same place, same thing. We were walking this day. We
were a little later getting out there, so it was
almost dusk and some started paralleling us walking in the
(08:07):
woods next to us, and my daughter got scared, and
all of a sudden, it started throwing rocks at us.
But he said, this time it wasn't like what was
happening in the pond. It wasn't just tossing the rocks in.
He said, these were zinging, you know. He said they'd
throw them much harder, and so I immediately decided we needed
to leave, and so we started walking back to the house,
(08:29):
and it just followed them all the way to this
one spot where there was a dump. And when it
got to the dump, you know, it's just a place
in the woods where folks would throw their garbage, you know,
and or like their metal garbage and stuff like that,
not so much food garbage. But once it got to
that little clearing, it stopped and left them alone. So
(08:50):
it basically escorted them ount and I was like wow.
I was like, man, this is like all classic stuff here,
and so we you know, I did that investigation, and
literally three days later, another guy sent me in the
report where he told me he was I was like, man,
this might be really close to Josh. But he told
me to come a whole different route. So I followed
(09:13):
his route because I don't want to miss his house.
And then I come up to his road. I was like, ah,
I gotta keep going. I got to see how far
Josh lives from here. And literally it is one turn,
one turn on the black top and boom, there's Josh's house.
So I went back and met with this fella, and
he was a preacher and he would was building a
gate to his place, and he noticed these footprints in
(09:37):
the mud and they had about a six foot stride.
Maybe I think that's what he told me. I have
to look back at my notes, but and there was
three of them come out of the woods, walked the
road for three steps, and then went back in the woods.
And I got a picture of his foot next to him,
and he had sized twelve boots and you can tell
(09:58):
it's it's quite a bit bigger. He's like, what could
this be? You know? And I think someone told him.
I was like, oh, that's probably a sasquatch, and he's like, what,
we don't have those things. And he had just moved
here from another state. And so anyway, he decided to
put in a report. And so when I met with
him and was talking to him, I was like, yeah, well,
(10:18):
I got another witness in this local area and I
asked him, I said, do you know this stuffle the
named Josh, And he's like, no, I don't know him.
I haven't lived here very long. One of the things
he told me when I came, he's like, hey, don't
come with anything like bigfoot or bfro on your truck
or anything. Because I got some neighbors that asked me
not to turn in a report on this. He said
(10:41):
that he sees it walking the roads every once in
a while and he don't want people in here looking
for it. Anyway. I asked him if he knew the
other witness, and he had not, and so he literally
lived just one road turn away from the other guy,
and so that kind of put us on the on
the area. And from there I started going out there
(11:04):
bringing a new friend. I was like trying to find
friends that I knew that they were into the bigfoot
subject and stuff, and so I talked a few friends
into going out with me. One night, a friend named
Dave Anderson went with me, and I think the first
night we went there, we didn't have anything. We went
(11:26):
back again the next night and we started getting this
low moan sound. I just thought it was a cow
or something. And so the next day I called Josh
and I said, hey, is there cows in there, because
it's on the side of the mountain and he's like, oh, no,
there's no cows over here. I said, are you sure?
I said, I go because where I heard a cow
(11:47):
And he's like, no, I promise you there's no cows
in this area. He says the closest cows would be
down in the valley. So a couple of weekends later,
I bring another friend in the area. Dave couldn't go,
so I bring a friend, John Sullivan, and we're sitting
there in the dark and I said, hey, I just
want you to listen, just listen for any kind of response,
And I did a wood knock on a it's kind
(12:08):
of like a drum kit wood wood thing, and so
I did a wood knock and almost immediately we got
a rock clack return. And I could tell John was
hooked from the moment, and he literally was. So he
was the first of us to get thermal and all
kinds of equipment.
Speaker 5 (12:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
He was found and determined we were going to figure
this out. So yeah, I ended up getting quite a
few friends into it from there, so.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
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Speaker 4 (14:35):
How often would you make it out to the property
or we were actually let me ask you, were you
working that guy's property or just areas nearby? Or how
did that work?
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Yeah, so we worked the property where Josh lived in
a little bit of the surrounding properties, but we would
get out that summer because of that happening, We probably
were out there every weekend, maybe out of fifty two weekends,
maybe forty six forty eight weekends. I mean, we really
(15:04):
were out there because it was and we had an
activity almost every one of those, not every one of them.
Seemed like anytime we had a full moon it was
kind of a dead night. But for the most part,
we had either vocalizations or we started getting rock throws,
we'd have a tree pushovers, all kinds of stuff happened there.
(15:27):
There's a cabin in there. It got slapped a few times.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Yeah, And I can vouch for how hard they were
hitting it because we were communicating all the time. I
think by that point I had already moved from Oklahoma,
but you know, Joel and I would talk all the time,
and so I was getting regular updates about that property.
In those situations, and those guys were hitting it hard.
It'd be like, hey, who wants to stay up late tonight?
And they'd run over there and stay out there all
night and then come home in the morning and do whatever.
(15:50):
But they were out there a lot, really diligently.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
When you got the cabin slapped, was did you guys, like,
would it be like where someone's head was that they
were land like, did it seemed like where they knew?
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Like did.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
It seemed like they that they knew where you were
inside the cabin, like would hit where you were sleeping
or sitting.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
We weren't in the cabin. We were probably two hundred
yards from the cabin, sitting at this pond, and the
cabin's up this road on top of this hill. And
almost like clockwork, when we were there, they would there's
a ravine there and we could almost hear them coming
up out of the ravine. You know, we'd start hearing
movement over there, and they would come up to the
(16:28):
pond and kind of work from left to right around
the pond, and I think that they would kind of
observe us from that position. But that night it was
me and Dave Anderson, and we heard something coming up
out of the ravine, but then it went quiet for
a long time, and then all of a sudden we
hear we'd hear what sounded like something just walloped that
(16:51):
wall of that cabin, and then we heard a take
off run and going back down the ravine, and we
could hear rock slides and stuff like that, you know,
where it was just scramble and back down them into
the ravine.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Let's talk about this cast a little bit because that
property is that where your fantastic cast came from.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Yes, so one night again bringing in a new friend.
Bringing in a friend that night is so it is
his first time ever going and I told him, I
was like, it's pretty much downhill for here for you, buddy,
unless you see one. So as we were walking in,
we come across a great print on that road and
(17:30):
we didn't cast it immediately. I just kind of left it,
and I knew that I was going to come back
early in the morning to cast it.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
So and I have to congratulate you because one of
the one of the successes here with this particular footprint
is first of all, it's excellent. I have not seen
a better cast out of Oklahoma. It is really good there.
But also in the middle of it, of interest, I
think you're very very lucky to get it at all, frankly,
and because it had to have been very fresh, because
(18:02):
in the middle of the print there's a couple of
things going on in it. In fact, when I'll get
to that minute. But first of all, a scorpion walked
across it as you watched it. Is that correct? As
you're looking at the print in the ground.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, so we're we're all huddled around it. There's four
or five of us there that night, and as we're
looking at it, we observed a scorpion come walking across
and walk right through it. And even in the in
the in the cash you can see the trail that
it left, you know, from its dragging its tail through there.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Yeah, now we'll go ahead and post set on a
prootal post set, probably just for the members, I guess,
another reason to be a member if you want to
be a member of big Foot and Beyond. But on
that cast, on the lower left hand side is a line.
It looks from from our perspective looking at the picture
it's on the lower left hand side of the heel,
going diagonally up to the right, about almost to the
(18:56):
ball of the foot, I guess. And there's a line
in the middle with small little scraggly's going out on
either side, and that is the trail at the scorpion
left and underneath that are a couple of little round
marks basically on the heel, which is where unfortunately, I'm
like an OUCHI here Joel that you guys made a mistake.
You touched the footprint before you cast it. But You're
(19:19):
not alone in that. All sorts of people have done that,
some of the greats. I mean, peterburn cast has finger
marks all over it, Bob titmas stuff down in high
and Palm has finger marks on it. That's one of
the things that happens with footprints in the ground. But
you told me at the time, and I remember working
with you about this ten years ago or more, that
you were curious how soft the soil was. Is that right?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
That's exactly I was like, Oh, I'm going to get
to finally tell him. And so when we found this
what I went back to cast it. So we were
in kind of like a mini drought for around here.
We usually get a lot of rain, and I think
would have been like a couple months since we've got
any rain. So the ground was super hard, and I
tried to jump and with all my weight and I'm
(20:05):
way two thirty five and to make a print with
my boot not right next to it, but you know,
just down from it, in the same substrate, and I
could barely make a dent in the ground. And if
you look at the the picture of the print before
we cast it, you can see that the soil is
all crust is all broken up around the edges of
(20:27):
it and stuff, and so I was like, I wonder
how long this has been here? And so actually the
you know, yeah, I touched it like right in the middle,
and if you when the members see it, you'll see
that scorpion line, and it's just above the scorpion line,
so in the heel area. I think it's a dog
print or something.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
So you know, it's gonna say it kind of looks
like a cat print right here.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
So I think it's a dog because at that time,
you know, I had tried putting some cane cameras out
over there, and I think someone threw some hunting dogs
out or some hunting dogs were lost and staying at
that pond, and I kept getting those dogs on my
game camera.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Is there a big casts there?
Speaker 1 (21:11):
There's reports of them. I haven't seen any, but I
know that there's pretty good sized bobcats in the area.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
But how big was the cast?
Speaker 1 (21:20):
I thought it was like fourteen, but I think Cliff
didn't you major it at like twelve?
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Oh, it's a little bit. I think it's a little
bit longer than that. But you know, the picture I'm
looking at, it has a scale item right behind it.
It's this matter of counting the little squares, I guess.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
So interestingly enough, that night that we found the cast,
we heard a dog get attacked down in the ravine
and so and then there was only one dog around,
you know, and so I don't know, I mean, there
was a lot that happened that night, but that was
one of the things.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
So a dog did get attacked, Like what did you hear? Oh,
it just screamed and there was a squad scream or
the dog the dog, you know, Yeah, it sounded pretty horrible.
You could tell something got him.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
The track's about thirteen or fourteen inches long, depending on
where you want to take the measurements from, so whatever
that's worth there.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, I measured it fourteen or fourteen and a half
I think, is what I wrote on the back. But
you know, I know that the hill was messed up, so.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
Well there's two that you got a left or is
it just like a reversed.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah, one, right. We did find some disturbance, so that
was like in the edge of this road and coming
off of this hill we could see where maybe another
track or something, or where it had stepped previous and
then of course we looked for tracks on down. It
was like going down into that ravine. That's the direction
(22:52):
it was headed. We did look for other tracks along
this trail, so it was going down into a trail.
So that step was very you know, it was like
it was headed into a trail.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I'll make sure all these pictures are available, because there's
pictures of the track in the ground from a couple
of angles. There's a great picture of when you first
discovered the track, and so it's illuminated at night with
a red headlamp. And then pictures of the cast after
Joel pulled it in. Pictures of the cast as measured
by Cliff. Now, wasn't it the case, like you couldn't
find plaster and you had to find a different material.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah. So if you remember, I called you like first
thing in the morning, hoping that I didn't wake you up,
because we stayed out that night till about three or
three thirty four, and I just went home, got a
couple of hours sleep, and I think I was up
around six. I was just so jazzed up to get
back out there and cast this before it got ruined.
And I didn't even know how to cast. You know,
(23:49):
I had never even practiced. I haven't done any of that,
and so I was like, I remember getting on the
PFRO website because I remember I had seen something on
there about how to cast, and so I kind of
read that and I was like, I gotta called Matt.
Matt will know what to do. And so I think
you just told me. He's like, yeah, you just got
to get whatever you get. And so I went to
a local hardware store and all I could find that
(24:11):
I was like, I didn't want like regular quick creek
because it has pebbles and stuff in it, so I
bought some. It's like an anchoring concrete. It's just super
fine concrete and so but it was like, had no
gravel and stuff in it. And anyway, it's just by
sheer luck that it turned out the way it did,
because I had no idea what I was doing.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Yeah, it looks fantastic. Just whatever that's worth.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Well, I appreciate it. Yeah, And of course Matt put
me in touch with you, which then I mailed that
to you, and you, I think, made some copies of
it and gave me some copies which I ended up
giving to I gave one to the witness that kind
of put us on the area. And then I gave
another one to my friend John, who he pretty much
(24:59):
went out with me almost every weekend, so he was,
you know, a very dedicated guy.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
So well, the latex mold is still in good conditions.
So if you ever want another copy, let me know.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah, man, I may it may take you up on
that and just buy some.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
I'm trying to go back to my memory because I
do remember other things happened that night, but I'm sure
the audience would would love to hear about that, because
I don't even remember all the details of the stuff
that happened.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
So that night was probably by far my greatest encounter
and I ever. And so not only did we find
the print, but as we went in, we split up.
Like I said, there was five of us, so we
split up into two groups. We had radios and kind
of sat on different ends of the pond, and I
was sitting on the pond dam with a couple other
(25:44):
fellows and so we sat there for a long time
and nothing happened. We did hear that dog get attacked,
and then I decided I needed to get up and
stretch my legs and so I did, and then Josh
he was like, ah, I need to stand up too. Well, Josh,
I was standing right next or sitting next to a
big old cedar tree. When Josh stood up, he was
(26:05):
kind of out in the open, and all of a sudden,
something just literally feet away, six feet away at the
bottom of the pondam just got up and ran away
on two feet and so went trucking back to that ravine.
You know, the ravine was safety.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
So six feet away from you or your friend.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
From both of us. So we were just sitting next
to each other. But it didn't see me stand up
because of that cedar tree. But Josh stood up. There
was three of us there, and then Josh stood up,
and it freaked it out and it bolted off down
into that ravine.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
What do you think it was doing.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
I think it was sneaking up on us. Be honest
with you, I don't know. I mean, I have a
you know, I can't prove this by no means. I
think it was a juvenile that we were dealing with there.
Josh had seen it in a tree once and so
he said it was about five six foot tall. What
made the print may not have been him because he
(27:05):
would also tell us about you know, he would hear others. Well,
he actually had a bluff charge at one time, which
I didn't believe him to be honest with you. But
the more I was there and the more things that happened,
I started to leave him. I just thought there's no
way that all this could be happening, you know. And
so so there was a bigger one in the area.
(27:25):
But I do think that we were dealing with a juvenile.
And what makes me think that, Well, he's seen it
in the tree and the size, he said. But I've
always just felt like it had to be like a
juvenile that was more curious than others. You know. Well, no,
it made me think of like two other stories. You know.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
There's the story from Area X where he had gotten
right behind out behind his tent and you remember, like
the view was obscured, and so he kept saying, hey,
I'm hearing something back here, and they were like, we
don't see anything behind your tent with the thermal. Maybe
it's a raccoon or a possum or armadillo. And then
it stood up and they saw it. And then there
was an expedition that I did in twenty eleven in
(28:03):
Georgia where we had a little bit of action in
this one draw and for a couple of nights, and
so one of the final nights, I'd put a group there.
It was mostly women and two guys and they just
brought camp chairs and sat and I just told them like, yeah,
let the women talk and sing and make a lot
of noise, and so they did that for we were
(28:23):
probably out there for like three hours, and they didn't
have any optics, so no thermals or night vision, but
they were just sat there in the dark and let
the girls talk and sing. And after hours it was
like nothing was going on, and they said, all right, well,
I guess it's time to go back to camp. And
they all kind of stood up at once. And my
friend Kevin Zork, who's he was the fire chief in
Nag's Head, North Carolina on the Outer Banks, he was
(28:45):
there in that group, and he said, the brush next
to them, same thing like six ten feet away, exploded
and this big, huge thing took off running up the
draw and they it terrified them because they were like,
how did that thing get so close to us? And
we had no clue it was here, but it was
the same reaction when everyone stood up, it's like, oh,
time to go.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, that's exactly. I mean, we never heard it at all.
So was it already there when we got there and
it just hunkered down? Or did it sneak in on us?
I couldn't tell you, but I just that's exactly what
it is, just like stood up and exploded and took
off running down to this ravine.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
Yeah, Bobo and I had something like that happened to
both of us at the water spot that one night.
You remember that, Bobo? Oh yeah, yeah, something was sneaking
up from the ravine to us, and Bobo heard it
come in and included me in on it. And then
as we we didn't stand up, but I sat up
because we're just lying on the road. I sat up,
and when it did, it started making a huffing, puffing
(29:45):
sort of noise like that, and then stomping its way
down into the ravine. I wonder what that is, you know,
trying to sneak up on us like that.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
They don't like it when when you call them out
when they're trying to be sneaky. Who does.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and bogo,
we'll be right back after these messages.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
That wasn't all that happened that night either, And so
once it ran away, we sat there for a good
little bit and then we started getting Ohio house from
that ravine. We got I think two of them, and
I think they were maybe two or three in a series,
you know, like a whoa, whoa. So in that one night,
(30:36):
we just had so many awesome things happened, you know.
It was didn't sleep that two hours that I went
home and went to bed.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Does that property where you got the track from, does
it still have activity or is it kind of died
away or have you just as your attention been brought
somewhere else, whatever happened with that property, because that was
what that was in twenty twelve, I.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Think yeah, it did eventually d wind out and we
got less and less and pretty much we stopped going there.
We have went back somewhat recently and thought we had
and may have had a encounter and it was very interesting,
but we were unable to verify what we see. To
(31:19):
put it plainly, we thought, number one, we thought there
was someone at the cabin, so we walked up there
to see if there was anyone in the area, and
we were going to leave and we get up to
the top of the hill and my friend looking through
a thermal and he's like, oh, stop, I think there's
someone there looking at us. I was unable to get
(31:40):
up high enough on this road to see what he
was looking at, and so we backed away and we left,
and as we were leaving, he's like, you know, I
don't remember seeing any clothes. I don't remember seeing any
facial features. He says, it was just a big uniform
hot spot anyway, So we bounced it around and I
(32:03):
was like, well, why did you not see? We have
really good thermals. We have a they're like the sixty
series and stuff, so that you know, they got really good.
I mean you could see hair on some mammals with them.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
So I was like, you.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Didn't see any facial features. He's like, I didn't see
any facial features or any folds in the in the clothes.
So I was like, could you have seen the back
of a sasquatch maybe watching the cabin? And that's when
we're like, oh, my gosh, maybe that's what we see.
Maybe we snuck in there and it was watching the
cabin because there was someone at the cabin and we
(32:38):
snuck up on it. We have went back and tried
to recreate it, and unfortunately we haven't been able to
determine whether or not what we've seen was a guy
or it was a saasquar. So we just have to
leave it asnown.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Sounds like you need to keep on working that spot.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Man, Oh we're gonna walk. We have started working a
little bit of the surrounding areas a little more since
in that ravine that they were always come out of
as a couple of artesian wells, you know, they were
just so that year that we had all that drought,
there was two very large, six foot diameter, nice cold
(33:18):
water in the middle of the summer natural wells in
that in that ravine, So I'm pretty sure that's what
was keeping them there of it. Now the water's so
readily available all around, so I don't know if that's
what made them move on or what.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, that's a really good point to bring up, is
you know, in these places where there's so much activity
that seems to be concentrated, Like the first time that
I went down to Scout where I held the expedition
in twenty eleven, Joel met me there to scout with me,
and that was, you know, the year prior to Joel
casting that track. But there was a big drought. It
was very hot, the creeks were almost like bone dry,
(33:55):
and then you know some of the rivers were pretty
darn low, and then we were near a lake. But man,
you know, we saw bobcats in the daylight, you know,
two days in a row. Basically, because anywhere that there
was water, when you walked up on it, you were
going to see animals. I mean every puddle you could
toss a rock and a puddle and six cotton mouse
(34:15):
would come out of that puddle. It was crazy like
because it was so little water. And so I absolutely
think Joel's spot on with that that like during those
Southeast Oklahoma it's brutally hot, and then you get in
those drought conditions and like if you find cold, fresh
running water, like you got to stick very very close
to it because it might be a long distance before
you find another substantial source of it.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
Now, was that just a typical of that area or
is that specifically that year because you mentioned the drought.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
It was basically that year because I've been waiting for
that scenario to play out again since, and it hasn't.
Speaker 4 (34:51):
Yeah, because other year.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I mean there's times Joel and I've been an Area
ACTS and just sit in a torrential downpour for a.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Day, two days or five.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
You show up to a bone dry camp and then
within hours like there's you know, foot and a half
deep water all through camp except for the little high
point that the cabin's on. So it does when it's
a regular year or a rainy year, it rains a
lot in southeast Oklahoma. But yeah, those drought conditions those years,
and you remember the last one of the last years
that you and I were in Area X, it was
(35:21):
really hot, the heat index and the drought was such
that I don't know if it was technically a drought,
but it was definitely a dry season and extremely hot,
and like midsummer it looked like autumn because the heat
stress was killing the leaves on all the trees. So
you're down there in the summertime and everything's like auburn
and gold and red is crazy.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, exactly. And and you know, even the the rivers
in that time were also very down, and there would
be stretches of no water and there'd just be big puddles,
you know, or big pools now.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Were there are other things that happened, Like I'm trying
to remember the chronology of you know, after the track
was cast and you know, I know it did decline,
but were there other things that happened on the way
to it being sort of just totally quiet there?
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Well, I did have a I don't want to call
it a sighting. I seen something on the pond dam
in the lightning strike. And it wasn't like we were
having big lightning, but you know, the atmospheric lightning, and
I seen two dark figures on the pond dam. And
then a few moments later we get another atmospheric type
(36:28):
of lightning where it just lights up the whole place.
It's almost like it's daylight, you know, and the dark
figures are gone. And that that particular night, we did
have other things that followed that that made me believe
that what I seen was of the Sasquatch. You know,
everything got quiet again, and we decided, hey, let's walk
(36:50):
up to the cabin. So we walked up this road
and we got just a little ways up the road
and we had a rock fly just a few feet
over our head and strike a tree in front of us.
I mean, whatever through it. It is like it through
it with some velocity because we could hear the rock
go by us. You know, we didn't find the rock,
(37:13):
but we did look for it. But when it hit
that tree, I would say it is as big as
a probably a softball. That's the only time I've been
at that area where I thought, I think we might
need to get out of here, and that the bad
thing was is whatever through that. We had to walk
back by it because we had walked past it and
(37:34):
it threw it over our heads from our back to
our front. And so that's the only time I've left
that area with lights on.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
So this this area, it's probably safe to say that
this was one of those long term witness situations where
the thing was hanging around, and there was probably indications
that it was hanging around, and maybe your presence as
an investigator kind of solidified that for the witness, for
the person living there. After speaking to the witness and
after your experiences on this property, what are some of
(38:04):
the other behaviors that are probably but not for sure,
but or maybe for sure are probably attributed to the
sasquatches being there and examples. Okay, tree knocks and vocalizations,
those are obvious ones. But what are some of the
perhaps less obvious signs that these people or you either
(38:25):
observed or heard about while there.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Tree pushovers? We had quite a few trees get pushed
over and limb breaks and snaps. Sometimes they would sneak
up on us and not want to be heard, you know.
And one night was really interesting. We could hear them
kind of soft loop back and forth to each other.
You know, you'd hear a little whoop from over here,
(38:50):
and then a few seconds later you could hear another
one from another little area, and that was pretty neat.
But and then there was other nights where they wanted
to know that, you know, that they were there, and
they were snapping limbs off and just making a ruckus
as they come up out of the ravine.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
So did you ever find signs of these broken trees?
Speaker 1 (39:10):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (39:11):
What did they look like?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I got a good picture of one and it's it's
a good sixteen seventeen feet off the ground, I think
is what we measured. It's about the size of a
Louisville slugg or bat in circumference at the end, you know,
just snapped right off the pine tree limb. We found
a few that were kind of the break twist, you know,
(39:35):
the classic got the classic twist to it. But never
was they wile to really find any of the trees
pushed over it. We'd hear them and then we'd come
back and look for the trees and we couldn't find
the trees. We'd come across trees that were down, but
you know, it's the forest. There's trees. Yeah, there's trees everywhere.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
Did the property owners live on the property.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
They lived really close to the property. They lived by
the black Top. We would walk in, we'd park at
his house and we'd walk in probably half a mile
from his place. You know.
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Okay, so they just owned a bunch of property and
that their home was next to the road for convenience.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Anything happened at their house. Things get moved around, or
their house gets slapped from the outside or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Nope, he never had that. He said that they're On
multiple occasions he'd be outside grilling or something in the
evening and he said it sounded like someone was building
a house out in the woods. You know, the wood knocks.
He always talked about like every once in a while
he thought a mail was in the area, and he
said the woods would change, you know, he said things
(40:44):
always seemed a little more tense around there, talking about
like the wood knox would be louder and the vocalizations
would be louder.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
They wouldn't see deer or with the deer coming into
the yard and like hide out.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Yeah there was deer around, but uh, he'd never mentioned
anything like that.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
So was there What about seasonality? How that how that
plan the things?
Speaker 1 (41:09):
That was pretty much year round we were having stuff
And like I said, the only time that we really
go in there and not have anything would be a
full moon night. And uh, you know how them full
moon nights are is just the visibility so well, And
I was equated it they could see us, you know,
they didn't need to approach us to see us or something.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
You've been big footing now for over a decade. So
have you had the opportunity to investigate other long term
witness properties And I know you were in in you know,
they need w a C with every X and stuff.
But that's what I'm talking about, and I'm talking about
other places that is kind of similar to this, this
initial property that you were working.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Unfortunately, no, I have not been able to find another
spot like that. I mean, we have some other areas
that we we hit and we'd have a little bit
of activity or we'd have a long distant howl or
something from there. And we've had a few places where
we had rock throws and stuff like that, but I
wouldn't call it like you know, it's very hit or
(42:11):
miss whether we get activity there. And we've kind of
been in a drought for a while. We haven't had
much activity in quite quite some time, maybe a year
or two.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
A big Foot trout, not a water drought then.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Yeah, yeah, big fit drought. And we have here recently
had a place where we've started to get wood knocks again.
So maybe maybe the future is starting to turn back up.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
So hopefully stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with
Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages.
So you've had some general success and I know that
we're coming around the end of the hour here. What
sort of advice now that you've been doing it for
(42:59):
a while, what kind of advice would you give to
people who are interested in doing the bigfoot thing, either someone,
because you know, you can give advice to newbies or
oldies or anybody in between. What do you think you
have learned?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Well, I've learned. I've made a lot of mistakes.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
That's how you learned too.
Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah, there's so many things I wish I'd have done differently,
But I would say some of the advice, like you guys,
give find an area and continue to go to it,
because I think we went to that spot a good
for four or so times before we really started having anything.
But just continue to put yourself in a good place.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
You know.
Speaker 1 (43:41):
I know a ton of hunters that have been hunting
and they don't think this thing exists, And I always
tell them, well, you're not in the right place. So
if you find a good place, that's that's gonna up
your chances immensely. Well.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
I think you also did a great thing by like
putting together a group of other outdoors folks, you know,
people like who were like minded but also just loved
being outside and exposing them to activity.
Speaker 1 (44:04):
Because man like.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I was always just so like wishing I could be there, envious, like,
oh man, I wish I could be a part of
that because you guys were and continue to be. You
and John especially like out so often for all these years.
And that's a really special thing because like when I
think about all my favorite squatching people like you, it's like, oh,
I'd love to be in the field with Joel, but
he's eight and a half hours away, or you know,
(44:27):
Cliff in Bobo across the country. So yeah, I think
having a group of people that you trust and you
get along and you don't argue or fight.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Oh absolutely. And I'll tell you maybe another bit of
advice to just have fun with it, because there's been
I couldn't tell you how many nice we had absolutely
nothing and it's the majority of them. But I always
come home feeling like I had a great time because
I was in the woods with some good friends and
we always have good conversations. You know. Of course when
(44:57):
we're hoping that we have activity, everything's nice and but
you know, eventually you start talking and and uh, it's
just I've never had a bad night in the woods
with my friends.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
So that's what I asked real quick, Joel, what's the
what's the craziest story you heard from a witness that
you found like just like kind of blew you away,
But you found credible.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Oh that I found credible, because I've heard some newsies
that I don't think incredible.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Well, I want to hear one of those next.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
Then, So I was at a big Foot conference and
still well, helping a friend out selling some T shirts,
and a lady come up and we got to talking
and she's like, yeah, I'm from Southeast Oklahoma too, And
I was like, oh yeah. I said, have you ever
had any encounters or anything? And she's like, she says, well, yeah,
(45:47):
I've never told this story to anyone. I only recently
told it to my husband. I said, well, you're in
probably the safest place to ever share a story if
you would like to retell it. And she's like, when
I was a young girl on the Black Fork, we
(46:07):
had a birthday party, and so we had like four
or five little girls come and stayed with them, and
they all stayed in the camper, you know, the camping
trailer out there, so that they wouldn't you know, they
could stay up as late as they wanted and they
wouldn't annoy the parents and stuff, and so so they're
(46:29):
staying out in this camper and it got to be
very late and the girl that you know, the birthday girl,
the girl that was telling me the story, decided that
she was super tired and they were winding down any
so she decided that she was going to go in
and sleep on the couch and let the girls just play.
And she opened the door of the camper and was
(46:52):
on our way out and something grabbed her arm and
it had all black fingers said, it looked like almost
a sleeve of hair. The hair came to an end
at the hand, you know, almost like it was a cuff.
But she said, the hand was all black, the nails
were black, and you know, of course, it shocked her
(47:13):
and scared her, and she screamed and slammed the door back,
and when she screamed, it let go over her and
she closed the camper door and locked it. And all
the other girls heard her scream and they looked and
they seem just like a glimpse of what had happened.
And so now you got like five little girls. They're
just scared to death. And this is pre cell phone days,
(47:36):
so they had no way to communicate with the adults
in the house of what had happened. So they all
got up into the top little bunk of this little
camper and huddled there and they were scared, and this
thing started beating the side of the camper and rocking
the camper. It was trying to get in there. And
she said this went on for so long that these
(48:00):
little girls exhausted themselves and passed basically fell asleep. Eventually
it ended they fell asleep. The daylight comes and they're
scared to go outside, you know, and because they don't
know if it's still out there. And she said her
dad came out to the camper and he was cussing
(48:21):
and going on, and she could tell he was very upset,
and so she opened the door and he's like, how
the heck could this thing get out here? And so
the camper was actually moved like thirty feet out into
a field, was all beat up, dense all on the
side of it. And so she retailed what happened, and
(48:41):
she said that no one would believe her except for
her grandpa. Her grandpa used to always tell him like, hey,
you can play here, and you can play in the field,
but don't go up.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
On that hill.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
And so she always figured that after that, that's why
we weren't supposed to go up on that hill.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
That is crazy. It just grabbed your arm and she
screaming to let go.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah, she thinks it scared it. And at the same time,
the door hitting its arm, you know, kind of shocked
it and let go enough that she was able to
get the camper door closed. And she said it was
a type of camper lock that had the button, you know,
and so she pushed the button down same time locking.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (49:23):
I don't see any problem with that. No. Now, as
a closer, I guess for the regular episode, tell us
the most ridiculous story that you absolutely don't believe that
you've heard.
Speaker 3 (49:32):
I love these or you may or may not believe it.
Just wild.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Oh I don't believe this one bit. So so I
was told that this villa was trying to kick a addiction,
and so he went out to his family's cabin which
was out in the woods and was going to live
there for a little while to just kind of break
this habit. So he would go for long walks through
(49:57):
the woods on this trail that was kind of looped
around on the property, and it would come back to
the cabin and he would smoke cigarettes, you know, and
he would walk around and eat smoke cigarettes, and he
would eat Snickers a little like a fun sized Snicker bars.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
You know, I've had I've had Snickers. They're all fund sized.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
Yes, some some more fun than others. And so he
started seeing glimpses of what he thought were a bigfoot,
and so he would leave a cigarette on a stump
and a lit cigarette by the way, and a fun
sized Snickers, and then he would leave and he would
come back and the cigarette would still be there. He
(50:38):
said he'd left the cigarette because of the smell, and
the snickers would be gone. And then one day he
was out there walking and he didn't have any more snickers,
you know, and so all he had was of a
large Snickers, like a full size Snickers bar.
Speaker 6 (50:58):
A funner size, yeah, the funter size. And so he
was walking on the trail and this little one started
following him, and he was like, oh man, I don't
have any snickers to leave him, and so he stopped
and sat, and then all of a sudden, this female
comes out and is like following the little one which
(51:19):
was following him, and.
Speaker 1 (51:21):
He was like, oh my gosh, what am I going
to do? And so he said he pulled out that
large one put it out towards it, and he said here,
and it kept coming closer, kept coming closer, and finally
grabbed the snickers and then ran away. But then it
turned and it came back, and it put its hands
(51:42):
out like to give him knuckles, and so he gave
him knuckles, and then it turned and walked away back
to the female. And as it got down to the
bottom of the draw with the female, he noticed a
large male at the top of the hill come out,
and they walked up and got met up with the
big one, and they went over the hill and he
(52:04):
never seen them again.
Speaker 4 (52:06):
I believe it like a fist bump.
Speaker 2 (52:08):
In other words, Yeah, squat for a snickers, bubos into it,
Bobo would give him the belly bump.
Speaker 4 (52:19):
Well all right, well, thank you for that so much.
Actually from the right source. I wouldn't have too much
of a problem with that one. I would make me wonder.
But right, I've heard crazier. That's for sure.
Speaker 1 (52:30):
You changed my mind. I believe it.
Speaker 4 (52:32):
I'm not saying I'm not saying, believe the guy. Trust me.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
All right.
Speaker 4 (52:37):
Well, you know we had a lot of you have
a lot more experiences that we want to talk about.
When you're in the n AWAC down at Area X,
and some stuff that happened down there. So why don't
we stick around here for the memo. We'll all stick
around and we'll close this episode down and I will
continue the conversation over the Member episode, which of course
is released every Thursday. If you want to be a
member and get an extra hour of content and get
these kinds of episodes right now with zero commercials, maybe
(53:00):
you should be a member too, listener talking to you
out there on the other side of this machine that
makes podcast noise. Be a member five bucks a month.
You get a bunch of extra stuff from us. You'll
dig it. But Joel, thank you so very much for
spending some time with us.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
I loved it. Appreciate it, guys.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
Thank you Joel. We appreciate it very much. All right, folks,
that's another episode of Bigfoot Beyond with Clifton Bobo and
I always through it behind the controls. So thanks for
joining us. Hit like hit, share us a five star
review and until next week, y'all keep it squatchy.
Speaker 4 (53:37):
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you
get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram
at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on
Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,
(53:57):
and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag
Bigfoot and Beyond
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