Would you still go through with surgery if you knew what really happened behind the scenes?
In Part 2 of our most jaw-dropping series yet, Dr. Rady Rahban is once again joined by Paula, a seasoned OR nurse turned nurse practitioner, to continue exposing the shocking realities taking place in some of the most prestigious operating rooms in Beverly Hills. From false pregnancy tests being ignored… to untrained staff administering meds… to surgeons leaving the OR mid-procedure—this episode is not fiction. It’s Paula’s real-life experience, and it will make you think twice about who you’re trusting with your body and your life. We unpack the dark truth about how cutting corners in plastic surgery is often about one thing: money. And while the glamor of board certification and big social media followings may lure you in, what happens after you go under is what matters most. This is not about fear. It’s about being informed.
🎧 Don’t miss Part 2—because what you don’t know could hurt you.
In Part 2 of our most jaw-dropping series yet, Dr. Rady Rahban is once again joined by Paula, a seasoned OR nurse turned nurse practitioner, to continue exposing the shocking realities taking place in some of the most prestigious operating rooms in Beverly Hills. From false pregnancy tests being ignored… to untrained staff administering meds… to surgeons leaving the OR mid-procedure—this episode is not fiction. It’s Paula’s real-life experience, and it will make you think twice about who you’re trusting with your body and your life. We unpack the dark truth about how cutting corners in plastic surgery is often about one thing: money. And while the glamor of board certification and big social media followings may lure you in, what happens after you go under is what matters most. This is not about fear. It’s about being informed.
🎧 Don’t miss Part 2—because what you don’t know could hurt you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to another episode of Plastic Surgery and Censored. I'm
your host, doctor Roddy Rabon, and we have Part two,
Part two of a two part series. I think one
of my favorite episode series we've ever had, because I
think what it does is we're highlighting the things that
you guys don't realize happen in the OAR and for me,
(00:31):
it's the underbelly of everything that I've done for twenty years.
For twenty years, I've tried my very best to educate
patients and perspective patients on what to do and what
not to do to have a safe and successful journey
in plastic surgery. And I've always tried to highlight where
you're going to get in trouble. And we are so
(00:51):
lucky to have Paula, our nurse practitioner, here with us
because Paula has an experience that even I don't have
in that at the end of the day, everything I've
shared with the listeners and the patients have been my
own experiences. But because Paula has her own vast experience
in the operating room with so many different surgeons in
(01:12):
so many different environments, that we get a glimpse of
what's happening, and it's just basically echoing what I've said
for years, but its very specific details. So thank you
Paula for coming on the show. We did the first series.
In the series was talking about what I refer to
as our nightmares, and this is just the second half.
We just had so much to talk about that we
(01:33):
didn't have a chance to wrap it all into one episode.
Number one just sort for you who if you haven't
heard the first episode, stop this one and go listen
to the first episode, because I think it's very very
important information. But for those of you who are just
listening for the first time. Paula, you've been in a
nurse now for six plus years, right, and you've recently
(01:55):
joined our team and we're really happy to have you.
But prior to being with us, Paula was a highly
desired O R nurse in the Beverly Hills area with
super prominent plastic surgeons. Obviously, all of these things are
going to remain anonymous, but you know, people assume that
(02:15):
when they watch the news and they see these catastrophic
things that they're like, oh my god, what do you mean.
I said this example in the last time, which is
a doctor struck his penis in in a patient's mouth.
Like what you think that that happens in some random
place in the country, But no, these things happen in
the highest of highest echelons which the average patient things
(02:37):
like Beverly Hills is the mecca, right, I mean, it
doesn't get any better than that, and board certified plastic surgeons,
it doesn't get any better than that. I can't go wrong, right, No,
you can go wrong. And so I think Paula's insight
and willingness to share these stories are really important for
you guys that are listening, because you're otherwise not going
to know this. So we ended the last series and
(03:00):
now we're going to pick up and let's start with
some really basic things like if when you're in an
operating room environment, you have an our nurse, a tech,
an anti sociologist, and a surgeon for the most part,
and really, in my opinion, and I said this last time,
is I think the surgeon is the one that really
(03:20):
needs to make sure everything is above bar. We set
the bar. If the surgeon drops the bar, then everyone
is going to come to that lowest common denominator. But
every once in a while, you're in a you're you're
you're in a situation. And this is why I think
one of the reasons why Paula chose to be with us.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I hope this when I just got kind of tired
of going to like a bunch of different places and
the surgeon does things this way and this one is
this way, and I just got saw all the bad
things that happened. And then I worked with you and
I was like, Okay, he actually runs things efficiently and
the team is great. He knows everything by the book,
and I just got tired of going to a bunch
of different places and learning all the styles.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So and also it puts you put It also puts
you in a compromise place every time you show up
in a new facility and things are run sort of
not the way you would run them. You have a license,
you have a nursing license. You are you're exposed if
something is done illegal and you're happy to be there.
You'll get roped into it, right even though you're like, wait,
(04:21):
I didn't have anything to do with this, Its something
my fault. The doctor de yeah, but you're in it.
So it does make sense that you want to sort
of separate and distance yourself aside from the fact that
it's the wrong thing to do. And I think what
we talked about is there are many instances where you
were like, oh, wow, this is wrong. I'm not staying.
I'm going to get the hell out of here. So
what were some of the things, And then you have
(04:43):
you're the one who has to take the stand. So
one of them was I think you told me something
about a pregnancy test. Yeah, so so tell me a
little about that story and what ended up happening.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah. It was a surgeon I worked with for a
couple of months, starting to like it, the get the
flow of things, and the morning of surgery, it's standard
that we do a pregnancy test on all the patients
up to like age sixty around there.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And why is that I can't.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Like, you can't do elective surgery on a pregnant person, right,
you're pregnant, right.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
It's because it is possible that the anesthesia and you
don't know you're pregnant, right, because we check your pregnancy
by lab, but by the time you get to the surgery,
you could have gotten pregnant. So we we do a
urine test because maybe you don't know you're pregnant, and
then we give you anesthesia and God forbid you have
a deformed child.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Right exactly. So it was just another day. I did
the pregnancy test and it was positive, and I did
it again and it was positive.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Oh sh because it's positive. Is it's a big problem.
We gotta can't, we gotta can't. We got to cancel
the case. Like, hey, so sorry, I don't know what
happened since you came, because your lab should have been negative.
But that means that from the lab till now whatever
period of time is you got pregnant.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, so the labs were negative or they were done
about three weeks prior to her day. So I called
the surgeon right away and I'm like, hey, like sorry,
because he was on the way there. He wasn't there yet.
He was like, I'm like, the pregnancy has positive. And
this patient was like forty and she was still getting
her menstrual cycle and very possible that she's pregnant. And
he was like, okay, we'll discuss it when i'm there.
He gets there, he's like, let me talk to the patient.
(06:16):
He goes to talk to her and he's like, yeah,
she told me there's no way she could possibly be pregnant.
It's just a false test. We're moving forward and I'm like,
what do you mean, Like she still gets her menstrual cycle.
She's I'm sure it's actually active, Like there's a huge chance,
and she was just there for like a brest augmentation
and lyft. I told the antesthesiologists and the like, let
me talk to the surgeon, and he talks to the surgeon.
They're both like, we're going through the case. She said
(06:39):
that there's no way she could be pregnant, and I'm like,
what do you mean. She said like she doesn't know.
And so they're both trying to convince me to move
forward with it, and I'm like, it's my name, it's
my license also, just so inethical to be doing this right.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And I guarantee you the thing, the thing that they're
falling back on is that the patient said it's okay.
So let me let me let me phrase this for
me to context. You could understand if my if I
ask my son, hey, is it okay with you that
you never go to school again? And he says yeah,
And I say, well, my kid never went to school
because my son said it was okay with him? Is
(07:12):
that okay? You asking the patient if it's okay for
them to do something that we know that is medically
unindicated is not a clearance. You don't get away with
it because the patient said it's okay. You have a
responsibility not to mention the patient is compromised. They want something.
They spent money to be there that day. It's a
real inconvenience. So you could see them being like, ah,
(07:38):
fuck it, let's just go with it. And then what
happens if she ends up giving birth and the baby's abnormal.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well, that was the whole thing. The pregnantists that we
usually drain the ones with the lines, so he's like, oh,
the line's thing, I don't see a line, and then
I don't see that. I'm like, it's right there. So
I even went down in the pharmacy. I got one
one of the tests that say like positive negative exactly,
and it was positive, even not too positive positive. I
was like, I'm not doing this. I'm going home, Like
you guys can find another nurse. I don't know any
nurses who do this because we're the ones who signed
(08:04):
off on the pregnancy test, right because.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
You know, as well as I do.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Fast forward nine months, she has a not a healthy child.
She decides to have a child. Oh my god, I
was pregnant and the child is not normal. And who
are they gonna who is going to take the hit?
I mean me, I'm we're one hundred percent they're gonna
be like, we didn't know. The nurse told us it
was normal.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, And so they were just trying to kind of
almost bully me into doing the case. She said she
there's no way, there's something else, blah blah blah. And
I'm like, well, why doesn't she go figure out why
should be having a positive test and then come back
next month.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
She's not hemorrhaging. Yeah, she doesn't have a tumor that's
eroding into her A order, She's literally having a breast
dog no urgency. So I think that's a really big deal.
And I think this happens all the time. And what
happens is again, when the surgeon has a set is
his or her mindset they're doing the case, they will
(09:02):
make sure that everyone toes the line, whether that's the
antiseesiologist who doesn't want to do it the way they wanted,
whether it's the tech or the nurse, and more times
out than not, everyone's just gonna go ahead and just
be like okay, because number one, they're usually the senior person.
They're very aggressive. And number two, you need the job,
right The tech needs a job, the ansthesioloist needs a job.
(09:24):
The nurse wants the job. So you guys are sort
of in a very compromised position. So it's very unusual
for a nurse to be like, I'm so sorry, I'm
I'm gonna get the hell out of here, So bravo
do you Then we have another problem. You were telling
me that there were cases that you had heard about
or seen where you would do a massive surgery. We're
talking BBL three sixty LiPo, Tommy Tuck, breastog, this rhino facelift,
(09:50):
and the patient essentially had no work up and then
they're discharged like without much discharging instructions and they're sent
home to their family members.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah. I mean there's a lot of patients that I
meet the morning of that I work with surgeons and
I'm going over their discharge instructions, and for example, they're
got to a tumy tuck. I'd be like, okay, just
make sure you're an X y Z positioning after surgeons,
They're like, what do you mean No one ever told
me that? No one told me I have to do that?
And I'm like, this is basic stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
No you meant that ever told you from that you're.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Gonna have a train, this is how you empty your drain.
They're like, no one told me I'm gonna have a drain.
And I was neither on the clinic side of things
with these doctors, so I was just like, how did
no one go over this stuff with you? So they're
being discharged with just extremely like false expectations, and I'm
going over everything with them, and they'll have, like you said,
all these huge surgeries where there's a million complications that
happened where they should be going to like an aftercare
(10:42):
of something like we send our pass to and they
just send them home with like their sister who has
no medical knowledge about anything like at all, which is
just right.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
And that's if there's ever a recipe for a disaster,
it's to do this massive surgery, don't tell the patient
any instructions, and then just hand them off to somebody
who knows nothing about healthcare. It's like, what are you
talking about how is this even? Okay, we on our
side and now you're part of it. We have a
(11:11):
huge pre op process. I mean there must be one
hundred pages there that we go through. We highlight, they sign,
then we remind them the day of the surgery by
the nursing staff, which happens to be. Then they're always
discharge to someone that's knowledgeable. If it's a family member,
and if it's a long case, they don't have a
say they have to go to an aftercare for twenty
four hours because God forbid something happens immediately. They need
(11:33):
to be in some environment at least somebody has a
clue what's going on. So that kind of environment, And
why do you think that is?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean, I think a lot of surgeons, because again
this is plastic surgery. It's mostly all elective, so I
think a lot of people try to not treat it
as like serious surgery. Then we're doing these huge cases,
we're doing three sixty body lifts, things like that, and
surgeons try to play an office Oh it's you know,
it's light, it's easy. It's an easy recovery. Because if
we don't tell them all the risks that are associated
with the or the calications that could happen. If you
(12:01):
do X, Y and Z, then the patient's likely to
not book.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
That is right there, bingo perfect. The reason this shit
happens is because if I, as the surgeon, minimize everything
about the surgery, oh pain, minimal recovery. You'll be back
to working out in two weeks, how much, three days,
you'll be back to work, And I just minimize everything.
The patient's like, oh, that's not a big deal, then
(12:27):
they're likely to book if they if I do what
I do, which is, your nipple can die, you can
get necrosis, you can get into hissions. I mean, I
go on and on and on, they're more likely not
to book. Or as you said, well the other guy
said I could be back to working out in five days,
you said six weeks. Fuck that, I'm gonna go to
the other guy. So they rather minimize it to the patients,
and then what happens afterwards, it's too late, it's too
(12:50):
it's too late. You've already paid for it. Like oop, sorry,
did I tell you there was Did I tell you
you could only you can go back to work in
four days? Well that meant three weeks? Like now you're
screwed in your the patient, you have to deal with it,
so one hundred percent you're one hundred percent accurate on
the reason why it's minimized. Other thing you mentioned to me,
and again, these are what I'm so excited about about
(13:10):
this episode is that this is stuff that you're experiencing.
I've heard about these things, but you're going through these
oars and you're like, oh my god, what is going
on here. You referred to it as.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
The the wild wild West.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
The wild wild West of Beverly Hills, which is so
accurate because it's kind of like everyone's everyone's operating room
is their own private little place. No one is really
checking in out of them except for the handful of
people that come and go. You said that they were complication.
There was a complication in a case, and the doctor
(13:40):
kind of was like denying that it happened like it
was a neumo thorax, which basically means which can happen
you're doing a breast augmentation, you're opening up a pocket,
you're underneath the muscle and above the ribs, and if
you inadvertently which you shouldn't, but if you inadvertently poke
through the ribs, you're going to get into the lungspan
that's called the pneumothrax. You're gonna drop along. It's it's
(14:03):
not an emergency. It's an emergency, and you kind of
know it. And you're telling me that happened. And then
the patient wasn't feeling right or he didn't he said that.
It was like, no, no, no, it didn't happen. What
ended up happening there.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
So that what happened is the patient was doing a
breast augmentation. Patient had a pneumothorax in surgery, and it's
kind of he said, she said, whatever. The patient recovery
was not doing well, vitals were all over the place.
We ended up sending the patient to the hospital. The
patient had a pneumothorax, and the surgeon was trying to
blame the antithesiologist, the anesthesiologist. It was like he said,
(14:39):
she said, but it was one of those things where
it happened during surgery, and I think the surgeonnew because
he's being a little shady with everything. And it's one
of those things that if you mistakes happen, things happen.
It's all about like addressing it right away, fixing it
right away, not trying to cover things up, especially when
it's medical, and it was just kind of one of
(15:00):
those things where he's just like, I didn't want to
take any blame. It wasn't his fall, and instead of
just doing the right thing and owning up to it
and learning everybody.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
And I think that's a really big issue. And I
think this recently. I told you about this case that
happened where patient ended up coding and they were in
recovery and the surgeon forbid the staff from calling nine
to one one for like hours, and the person ended
up being brain dead because they didn't want to alert
the authorities. And so, when and if a complication occurs,
(15:30):
the key to success from a complication is the speed
in the immediacy of reacting. You have a new more thorax,
you have an MII, you have a stroke. It's all
about minutes. So what happened so commonly is a surgeon listen,
whether it was due to bad surgery or it was inadvertent,
(15:51):
it's irrelevant at this point. Right, the shit happened, you
got a new me thorax, you punctured something, the patient is,
whatever the case is. The key at that point is
to be like it's irrelevant. Let's figure this out. Hey,
call nine one one. We have a problem immediately. This
dilly dowling and hoping it goes away and brushing it
under the carpet and covering up your tracks, aside from
(16:12):
being completely illegal, is wasting precious time for that patient.
And this happens all the time. I can probably tell
you as an expert witness. There's thousands of cases where
doctors from the minute they realized there was a problem
to the minute that they finally got the patient the
care they needed was always delayed because again, they they
don't want to take response. Hey, what did you do?
(16:34):
What do you mean? What did I do? Who cares?
It's done? Let's go, let's figure it out. So I
think that's incredibly incredibly uh common and wrong. This here
is actually something that is really common, which is patients
have surgery, they're under a long anesthetic, whether it's because
(16:57):
they had too much surgery or the anesthesia was too
heavy or whatever, they get into recovery, and what are
your instructions when a patient's recovery in terms of discharging them.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
You mean, in general, what is the.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Right way of doing things and what's sort of the
unspoken pressure that a nurse has. So you are a
recovery nurse. The patient comes out of the operating room,
and you have certain responsibilities when you discharge a patient.
That's what you learn in nursing school. And then there's
the unspoken pressure nurse feels that has nothing to do
with nurse nursing school, but rather the environment they're in.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So, I mean when a patient comes to recovery, depending
of course, like how long their surgery was, where if
they're going after care and whatnot. I mean, there's a
minimum criteria for patients being discharged, but of course you
want to at least make sure they're awake, they can
talk to you, they're drinking water, the basics, their vitals
are good, they can get themselves dressed, things of that sort.
So typically after a surgery we keep them for about
an hour, sometimes a little bit more, just depending on
(17:57):
how they're doing. But whenever I discharge a patient, it's
when I'm comfortable with it. I can make sure the
patient's safe to go home or to aftercare. There's no
issues that I'm concerned about. But in a lot of
these places, it's all about turnover and starting the next case.
And let's keep it going, let's move fast. And sometimes
like they're like, the wuation has been in recovery for
twenty minutes, why aren't you discharging? And they're like still
(18:17):
a sleep right, Like they're still in oxygen, they're not
ready to go home, they're in pain, they're throwing up,
and there's just this pressure that a lot of surgeons
are just like discharging to discharge her, get address, get
or out of here, and I'm like, the suasi is
nowhere ready to be discharge. Her vitals are like kind
of crappy like. So it's a lot of that happening
out here, a lot.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Right, a lot right. I think that's actually everything we've
talked about that's not illegal yet, even though it's kind
of is it's like borderline. But that's the most common
thing because time is money, and if you look at
what pushes a lot of all these completes, ninety percent
of the stuff you've said over these two episodes revolves
around money. If we eliminated money, money didn't ever get exchanged,
(18:57):
nobody would be doing these things. It's about booking the case,
getting the cases done, doing them fast enough, saving money.
It's all about cutting corners. So the reason that occurs
is because you need to be back in the operating room,
and while you're sitting there recovering the patient, you're wasting time.
But reality is a patient, the longer the case, the
(19:19):
more time they need in recovery. So if you do
a let's say a thirty minute chinnog, I'm making it up,
maybe they're by just sheer and you have a great anthesiologist.
Maybe in thirty five minutes of pation's alert crisp ready,
they're talking to you. They're sitting up, they're in no pain,
they're off the oxygen, and they're like, can I go home?
(19:39):
But no one's going to come out of an eight
hours marathon case. They've been on under anesthetic for eight hours,
they've had a ton of fluid exchange, they have a catheter,
are in, they're on oxygen, and they're gonna be up
and ready to leave it half an hour. They ain't
gonna ever happen. So for you to push the nurses,
and then the nurses again are under pressure because if
(20:00):
you want to be brought back, they want to know
that you're an efficient nurse who signs off that the
patient was ready to leave surgeon, right, but it's also
you're doing the charting. Yeah, so when the patient eats
shit and doesn't do well and has a code, they're
going to be like, so, Paula, I don't understand you
discharged her, you felt she was ready? What were your
(20:22):
last set of idols? Why don't you tell me what
her status was, what was her cognition? And what are
you going to do? Then say, well, the surgeon told me.
You have your own license, you're your own person. So again,
this is happening every single day, and this one, you know,
because how many people have complained about feeling rushed when
they left.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
A lot of the times sometimes people just don't remember it.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
So their family members, Oh, their family members remember it.
They're like wait, wait, wait, wait, you want me to
take her home? She's like slurring her speech. Yeah, why
are you putting her in the car? Ready? Da da
da da da. I heard that from our old facility,
not with my patients, well even with my patients, because
it wasn't my facility. But anytime we would hear that,
we'd call and be like, hey, why are you rushing
our patients out? Because when I use the facility, it's
(21:02):
not my facility. Now I have my own facility, but
then I was at the mercy of the way the
facility ran it, and yes they wanted to be efficient.
So that's a really, really big issue. Another real issue is,
again I just said, we're pulling out money, right, So
where is one of the easiest ways to save money
(21:22):
is in staffing staff staff staff. So when you have
a badass antiseesiologist and an amazing tech a phenomenal recovery
or circulating nurse, it's expensive. You have some of the
best staff. When you have a CRNA and your tech
just graduated and your nurse literally last week was injecting
(21:43):
botox and now she's a recovery nurse, it's less expensive.
And so you cannot compare those two environments. So I
think you were saying that you noticed a lot of facilities.
Nothing wrong with hiring a new grad but on their
own in an island, never been trained doing crazy cases. Right.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, there's one facility I was done in particular where
instead of having like two or three high quality nurses
or something like that, he would hire like fifteen new
grads and he wouldn't provide them with any training. He
would just kind of set them free. And this is
like this is also in COVID time, so this isn't
a lot of the nurses were just going to school
all online. They've never interacted with the patient their life,
(22:25):
learned everything on zoom, and now they're like administering medications,
they're mixing medications, they're dealing with patients, they're starting ivs,
and they have never had any patient experience. So I
was at one of those places, and a lot of
these nurses were either new nurses or new to the
operating room because operating them is a whole different world
than to flores. So there was just a lot of
things like nurses would come up to be like, oh,
(22:46):
how do you do this? I'm about to give this,
and I would just be like, are you kidding me?
Like just the medication eras.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
That I would see, So medication. So what happens when
you have a young nurse or a young surgeon, or
a young pilot or a young young young is they
make errors and that's how they learned. But they need
to be supervised. So some of the errors you would
see is medication errors. I mean, for the love of God,
you pushed the wrong med or the wrong dose of
a med. You kill a patient. Boom right there on
(23:12):
the spot. Oh my god, what was that? What did
we just give her? Oh that was epinephrine. We didn't
ask for epineffrin. We asked for whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Oops. Yeah. There was one situation in particular where I
was working for a surgeon and he was like, it
was my first time with him, and he was watching
me make the two mess that which is the fluid
like issuction that the surgeon puts in, and he was
watching me like a hawk. And I was my first
day and I was like, do you feel more comfortable
making it? Like what's wrong? And he was like, oh,
I just had a nurse here not that long ago.
(23:39):
And she put Marcain instead of light a Kane inside
of the two Messa, which is like toxic, right, And
he was like yeah. And he was like I only
realized halfway through the case because I needed more. And
I watched her make more and I saw her drawing
up Marcaine and then I realized she was drawing marcat
instead of light a Caine and I had already put
in a lot into the patient. He's like, and she
didn't even realize thought that was a problem because she
(24:01):
was a new nurse, right, so you know, the patient
was transported, it was in the ICU for like a
week intubated. Thank god she made it. But things like that,
you know, it's nurses don't new nurses don't even know
that it's.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
A problem, right, it's and again it's no fault of
their own because inevitably all professions have to learn on
the job. Like I can do surgery behind my attending
for so long, but at some point I have to
be like do I cut here or do I cut here?
And of course when I started twenty years ago, I
probably made more errors than I make today. There's no
(24:36):
pilot that's not better after thirty five years. But I also,
you get more supervision, or you take on lesser cases,
or you do you know what I mean, You started
a GI lab where the stakes are lower and the
patients don't get a ton of meds. You don't go
start out in the cardiac ICU when you just graduated
last week. There's places in escalation of experience, and so
(24:57):
the reason they do it is it's cheaper. It's just
cutting cutting corners, and it leads to lots of lots
of errors. I think one of the things you said
to me that that actually was one of the like, oh,
are you serious? Come on, So, I've seen any caesiologists
(25:18):
who sit so the anti caesiologists, in my opinion, have
a really chill job, right. They sit behind the blood
bain blood brain barrier, aka, we put a drape up
and they're behind the drake. They're doing whatever they're doing
as long as the patient stays asleep and their vitals
are stable. Really they could, you know, pay any ces
y'ologists leave the room. Any caesiologists do their stocks. But
(25:42):
really they're just they're kind of bored. They are pilots.
It's all about takeoff and all about landing. Once they
get the patient to cruising altitude, it's autopilot, right, So
the doctors are you know, bored. And I've seen you know,
we talked about there's antithesiologists like I can't eat during
a case, right, I'm starving, I can't eat. I'm physically scrubbed.
(26:07):
You might stick a candy in my mouth or something,
but I'm not going to break scrub and go. I
mean I have to break scrub to go eat. I
have to leave the operating room. So I have had
anti caesiologists eating full on meals, right, You've.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Seen like saying that.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, Like you're like you all of a sudden, you're like,
is that orange? And then you pull down the thing
and they're like literally peeling open an orange. You know,
orange has that like mist that comes out. They're like
you look over there, there's like they're having pizza. What
are you doing? Leave the goddamn oar, like step out
for a second. Whatever. But you told me you saw
(26:39):
someone vaping.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah, so you know, the drape is up so you
don't see them because we're on the other side of things,
and I just we're in an oar, like, so I'm like,
I just saw smoke and I was like it's something
on fire, Like, what's going on? What's happening? And then
the surgeon's like he looks at Me's like, oh, that's okay,
don't worry. You know, He's like, what's going on?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
What do you mean that's okay, don't worry. There their
buddies like.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I don't even know what to say about that, but yeah,
he was just behind the drapes vaping and then I
was like, what are you? Like, I was like so shocked. Like,
what are you doing? So he when he saw I
was freaking out, he went out of the OAR and
he went to like the recovery area which is literally
like ten feet away, and starts vaping over there. And
I'm like, this whole oar is like hot box, Like
what are you doing? I was like in.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Disbelief, Like it that that's up there in one of
the craziest things I've ever heard. It's like it's you know,
it's like when it's it's if you would have caught
one of them, which is which has been caught before
you look over and they're shooting themselves up with propofol
or some of the drugs, which unfortunately, sadly usually almost
always ends to overdose and dying of the ante caesiologists.
(27:45):
But to be vapor just chilling back there and just
going and blowing this vape into the room while the
patient's cavity is open is just crazy bananas. But I
don't know, I actually think this other thing might be worse.
You told me that there was as where the doctor
left the building. Oh yeah, so wait, I just want
you to understand there might be a situation in which
(28:07):
vaping in the oar could be trumped by something else.
So what happened here?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I just can't make this stuff up.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
That's why I told you. I genuinely, I'm saying this
from the bottom of my heart. You and I'll do
it with you. We should write a book. We should
write a book. It'll be a short paperback book. It'll
be it'll be just for fun, and we'll call it
O R Nightmares, you know, like doctors and nursing's experience
or something. Because between the two of us, and I
(28:33):
have my own stories as well, but this one I
wanted you to share because when I share it, it's
kind of like, oh, doctor Ron, you're a drama queen.
Oh you're You're always trying to make everything seem like
it's like coming out of your mouth. It just makes
it so much better because it's like, listen, this is
her experience, guys, and you, and this is what I witness.
You've seen it by all these surgeons and all these
(28:54):
amazing facilities in the best place on earth. So for
you to say it is a totally different animal. So
what is this final thing here? Now?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
What happened? I went to interview at a facility out
here in Beverly Hills and I came to the OAR
and I was obviously expecting to meet the surgeon because
he's got to be working with and his manager was
showing me on the place. I was like, Okay, it
looks like a great place. You know what, am I
gonna be? Surgeon? And he's like, oh, he's in surgery.
I was like, okay, let's just go pop in there,
like I want to see the or too. So we
(29:22):
go in and I don't see the surgeon, but they're operating,
and I just thought, okay, maybe it's his fellow or
something and they're doing liposuction. And the person who's doing
liposuction like turns around. And me being in Beverly Hills
for forever, I know a lot of the people out here,
and it's a.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Tech okay, So you walk into the OAR to meet
the surgeon and you're like, oh, the doctor Smith is
not here, and it's like you see their office the
light wing. The person turns around. You're like, oh, hey, Josh,
the tech and right now you're like oh fu.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And I looked and like my everything I feel is
on my face and I was like, what are you doing?
And he's like, oh, we're just saying like life with
three six people. I'm like, yeah, yeah, but water you doing.
I was like shocked, and oh our manager saw that.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
I was just like freaking out.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
I was freaking out. I was freaking out, and I
was like, what's going on? Like what are you guys doing?
Where's the doctor? Maybe scrubbed out to go to the restroom,
like does he know that the tech is doing this?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Right?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
And then he's like, oh, he just stepped up for lunch.
She should be back in ten minutes, like left the building,
went to lunch across the street.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
You're not talking about he's in the in the break room.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
No, no, no, he left the building and went across
the street to like the cafe or whatever was across
the street to go have a lunch while his pain,
Like it's just this patient went to sleep thinking Okay,
I'm going to get like with three six to bb
out by doctor so and so, And there's a tech
doing the whole.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Case and the doctor is not even because in the room.
Because this because we talked about this in episode one,
you have witnessed text operating. I'm not talking about closing,
which in and of itself is operating, but you know,
they'll like to minimize it, like, oh, it's just closing.
But you have we talked about in this first episode
that you watched Text operate cottery late. But in those instances,
(31:01):
at least the doctor at least at least the murder
was done, you know whatever. At least they were in
the goddamn oar or in their office next door or
something in the possibility that, oh, wow, is that liver
on the tip of my liposuction candidate? Did I go
through the ribs and enter the liver? Oh? Is that
(31:22):
spleen that I just punctured? They're there, you're telling me.
They're out of the.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Building, And it's just Text don't like they know anatomy
the basics, but they don't know to the extent of
It's not like they went to medical school.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I mean, if there's a reason why I'm not flying an.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Airplane, right, So it's just crazy to me that what
if you perfowel you don't even know, and then then
you just charge this patient and then they end up
dying at home. It's just madness to me.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
It's madness, and it really is. The truth of the
matter is all of this madness. First of all, awesome
that you are here and you're sharing these stories with me,
because you are now corroborating what we've been trying to
do with the podcast for since it's Exception twenty nineteen,
which is bring heightened awareness to the consumer, which in
(32:09):
surgery is the patient that hey, don't be frightened, don't
not do it, just do it correctly. And up until now,
I'm usually the only one able to say, hey, don't
do this, Hey don't do that. When this happens, this happens,
and I'm always the one. So but since you now
have clinical experience, you've actually been there yourself, you can
(32:33):
add and highlight and expand on what I've been seeing
and the ability of you to share stories outside of
my arena, and that of what we would consider the
gold standard is is it's utterly frightening, shocking, and disturbing,
but it's still needed to be known. And the reality
is that I don't even know how to advise patients
(32:55):
because normally we say do your homework right that, Like,
we tried that. So if I were listening to this
two episodes, I'd be like, what am I supposed to do?
You're telling me it's sports certified surgeons. Right. Yeah, you're
telling me it's in Beverly Hills, right, which means don't
(33:16):
cut corners and don't not spend the money, right, Because
you know, we always are like, yeah, well you she
went to a strip mall, Like, what did you expect?
Oh it was one thousand dollars? What do you expect?
Oh it was a cosmetic surgeon. What did you expect? Like,
we always have a good explanation, but what do you
suppose how do we guide these patients? Listening going okay, well,
how am I supposed to avoid this? I mean, like
the guy was legit, I went to the right place,
(33:37):
I spent this money, I went to sleep, and you're
telling me all these things are occurring. Genuinely, I'm asking
you because I'm almost a little flabbergasted, like what do
we how do we? How do we avoid this? How
do you how do you what would you tell your aunt?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I would say, during your consultation with the patient, I
mean with the surgeon, ask them question just as many
questions as they're asking you, Like, that's your time to
figure out what surgeon you are going to go to.
So I would ask them the questions of do you
do the whole surgery by yourself or do you have
an assistant? Do you close everything by yourself? And see
how they react, because a lot of patients don't even
know that someone else that's an option. Obviously, patients think
(34:16):
the surgeons during my whole surgery. So I feel like
if you ask them and they get kind of caught
off guard or see how their answer is, you'll be
able to feel Theah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Mean I do think that. Let me ask you this
as I go on to when you think of the
collective whole of the surgeons that have done this, how
many of them were when you now think back, doctor
so and so did that, doctor so and so did that?
How many of them were you surprise? Meaning you wouldn't
have expected that from that doctor.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I feel like I could, I could have kind of,
I guess guessed that they would do something.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Never to this extent, No, no, forget about the extent. Yeah,
but how many of the doctors that were involved in
all of these egregious things? How many of them were
you like, I can't believe doctor Rabon allowed this to
happen under his watch? How many of them were you
like none of them. None. So the problem is if
(35:15):
you know off camera, I know who the doctors are,
and none of them surprise me. Like I'm like, oh, okay,
well the things surprised me, but the fact that they
were those doctors didn't surprise me. But the problem is
that patients don't know that because they're patient facing persona
is cleaner than what you and I know them and
(35:37):
I want what I want. What I'm struggling with is
I want if I want to I always want to
leave patients when they leave an episode with a tool
like if you want to avoid X, then this is
what you should do, and then they go home with
that and these two episodes are so frightening, and I
want to know what to tell them so that they
can avoid this. The reason why having you on was
(35:58):
so criticals because you're talking talking about the best of
the best in far their concern. So I do think
what Paula said is probably right, which is, let me
see if I could distill it for you. When you
do your consults, not your Instagram consult, not your TikTok consult,
(36:19):
not all the influencer consults, not all the bullshit that
I could pay for But when you actually meet the
doctor and you spend more than five minutes with them,
so your consult should be forty five minutes, you should
be long. So why you're about to go on a
speed date. You're going to go out to coffee with
someone and then you're going to marry them. So if
(36:40):
I'm going to marry Paula and we're going to meet
for coffee, I'm gonna try to spend as much time
as I can with Paula because this is the only
time I'm going to figure out Paula. Right, my PA's
going to be my wife, Paul's gonna have my kids,
Paul's going to make the difference in my life. So
I'm not going to meet Paula for five minutes and
ask her some bullshit ask questions and then marry her.
I'm gonna ask are you a Republican? Are you're a Democrat?
Do you what's your thought process on money? Where's your
(37:02):
religious right? I'm gona asking some very hard questions because
I only got this speed date to figure this out.
So Number one, I think what policid was right. When
you go to the actual consul, make sure it's a
long console. Make sure, you bombard them with these questions.
Do you ever leave the operating room? Do you close
everything yourself? Do you have anyone in the room besides
you that actually does any part of the surgery, any
(37:23):
of that stuff? Does your tech ask them directly? Does
your tech close? Who's your antithesiologist? How long have you
known them? How many cases have you done with this antithesiologist?
Are your nurses new grads? Or are they like all
the things we said to you? Asked them? Because She's right,
you'll catch them off guard. They'll usually not answer in
(37:45):
a way that I think you'll be like, oh that
was authentic, Oh that seemed like they were telling the truth.
And I think if you ask enough of them, you'll
catch them in their lie, because otherwise I think that
you're just going to you know, board sort of five
plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills who's got a lot of
followers and tons of reviews doesn't mean shit, It really doesn't.
(38:05):
And and sadly this is just one of those things
that you got to have a gut. But I think
that there are the reason why why I asked her,
that is because I do think if you knew these
surgeons like we know them. You wouldn't have even questioned it.
You wouldn't have been like, you would have not I
think she said, I don't I'd be shocked at the
extent of it. But none of the people she mentioned
(38:27):
to me, I was like, what, really, so and so
did that, because that's who they are. They're all kind
of like, hey, ho, you know, slickster Beverly Hills, plastic surgeon,
driving fast cars and you know, hooking up with their managers.
It's just that environment, and usually things of this nature
(38:49):
occur in those environments. At any rate. We're so grateful
a for you now being on board with our team.
Hopefully you equally feel the love affair and that you
will not have any further such stories. Sadly, you will
not have any more of this drama.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
I hear about it from other nurses all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Though, right, Yeah, and so that will add to our book.
I think we'll have an addition one, two, and three. Perhaps. Secondly,
we're grateful that you're willing to share these stories. Not
everybody wants to come and talk about these things. This
is where we talk about taking a stand, having some courage,
speaking up against what's wrongdoing and now that you are,
(39:30):
you know, in a safer environment. It's great that you're
having this conversation because you could just kind of like,
I don't really want to talk about it. I just
you know, it is what it is, but I don't
think you would. You can help a lot more people
by sharing it. So thank you for sharing it. And
I'm sure we'll have more episodes about this because you'll
eventually accumulate some more stories and we'll have you on.
We'll definitely have you on because I want to have
(39:50):
you help us talk about Now that we talk about
all these disasters, I'd like you and me to talk
about what is the right way so that if you
guys are going to go have surgery, you're like, wait,
so what should it look like? And then we're going
to delineate for you step one, step two, step three,
so that if you're somewhere and you're having surgery and
it's not following this route, you know something's fishy. Okay,
(40:11):
Well that's another wrap for plastic surgery and censored. I
hope you enjoyed our two part series as much as
I did. As always, we ask two parting requests. Number one,
go write us a really fantastic, spectacular review. And secondly,
share this episode or the episodes and the show in
general with people you love, because you never know who's
gonna go have surgery and they're going to want to
have had this episode loaded and listened to. All Right, guys,
(40:35):
that's a rap. I'll see you next week on Plastic
Surgery and censored
Welcome to another episode of Plastic Surgery and Censored. I'm
your host, doctor Roddy Rabon, and we have Part two,
Part two of a two part series. I think one
of my favorite episode series we've ever had, because I
think what it does is we're highlighting the things that
you guys don't realize happen in the OAR and for me,
(00:31):
it's the underbelly of everything that I've done for twenty years.
For twenty years, I've tried my very best to educate
patients and perspective patients on what to do and what
not to do to have a safe and successful journey
in plastic surgery. And I've always tried to highlight where
you're going to get in trouble. And we are so
(00:51):
lucky to have Paula, our nurse practitioner, here with us
because Paula has an experience that even I don't have
in that at the end of the day, everything I've
shared with the listeners and the patients have been my
own experiences. But because Paula has her own vast experience
in the operating room with so many different surgeons in
(01:12):
so many different environments, that we get a glimpse of
what's happening, and it's just basically echoing what I've said
for years, but its very specific details. So thank you
Paula for coming on the show. We did the first series.
In the series was talking about what I refer to
as our nightmares, and this is just the second half.
We just had so much to talk about that we
(01:33):
didn't have a chance to wrap it all into one episode.
Number one just sort for you who if you haven't
heard the first episode, stop this one and go listen
to the first episode, because I think it's very very
important information. But for those of you who are just
listening for the first time. Paula, you've been in a
nurse now for six plus years, right, and you've recently
(01:55):
joined our team and we're really happy to have you.
But prior to being with us, Paula was a highly
desired O R nurse in the Beverly Hills area with
super prominent plastic surgeons. Obviously, all of these things are
going to remain anonymous, but you know, people assume that
(02:15):
when they watch the news and they see these catastrophic
things that they're like, oh my god, what do you mean.
I said this example in the last time, which is
a doctor struck his penis in in a patient's mouth.
Like what you think that that happens in some random
place in the country, But no, these things happen in
the highest of highest echelons which the average patient things
(02:37):
like Beverly Hills is the mecca, right, I mean, it
doesn't get any better than that, and board certified plastic surgeons,
it doesn't get any better than that. I can't go wrong, right, No,
you can go wrong. And so I think Paula's insight
and willingness to share these stories are really important for
you guys that are listening, because you're otherwise not going
to know this. So we ended the last series and
(03:00):
now we're going to pick up and let's start with
some really basic things like if when you're in an
operating room environment, you have an our nurse, a tech,
an anti sociologist, and a surgeon for the most part,
and really, in my opinion, and I said this last time,
is I think the surgeon is the one that really
(03:20):
needs to make sure everything is above bar. We set
the bar. If the surgeon drops the bar, then everyone
is going to come to that lowest common denominator. But
every once in a while, you're in a you're you're
you're in a situation. And this is why I think
one of the reasons why Paula chose to be with us.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I hope this when I just got kind of tired
of going to like a bunch of different places and
the surgeon does things this way and this one is
this way, and I just got saw all the bad
things that happened. And then I worked with you and
I was like, Okay, he actually runs things efficiently and
the team is great. He knows everything by the book,
and I just got tired of going to a bunch
of different places and learning all the styles.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
So and also it puts you put It also puts
you in a compromise place every time you show up
in a new facility and things are run sort of
not the way you would run them. You have a license,
you have a nursing license. You are you're exposed if
something is done illegal and you're happy to be there.
You'll get roped into it, right even though you're like, wait,
(04:21):
I didn't have anything to do with this, Its something
my fault. The doctor de yeah, but you're in it.
So it does make sense that you want to sort
of separate and distance yourself aside from the fact that
it's the wrong thing to do. And I think what
we talked about is there are many instances where you
were like, oh, wow, this is wrong. I'm not staying.
I'm going to get the hell out of here. So
what were some of the things, And then you have
(04:43):
you're the one who has to take the stand. So
one of them was I think you told me something
about a pregnancy test. Yeah, so so tell me a
little about that story and what ended up happening.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah. It was a surgeon I worked with for a
couple of months, starting to like it, the get the
flow of things, and the morning of surgery, it's standard
that we do a pregnancy test on all the patients
up to like age sixty around there.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And why is that I can't.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Like, you can't do elective surgery on a pregnant person, right,
you're pregnant, right.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
It's because it is possible that the anesthesia and you
don't know you're pregnant, right, because we check your pregnancy
by lab, but by the time you get to the surgery,
you could have gotten pregnant. So we we do a
urine test because maybe you don't know you're pregnant, and
then we give you anesthesia and God forbid you have
a deformed child.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Right exactly. So it was just another day. I did
the pregnancy test and it was positive, and I did
it again and it was positive.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Oh sh because it's positive. Is it's a big problem.
We gotta can't, we gotta can't. We got to cancel
the case. Like, hey, so sorry, I don't know what
happened since you came, because your lab should have been negative.
But that means that from the lab till now whatever
period of time is you got pregnant.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, so the labs were negative or they were done
about three weeks prior to her day. So I called
the surgeon right away and I'm like, hey, like sorry,
because he was on the way there. He wasn't there yet.
He was like, I'm like, the pregnancy has positive. And
this patient was like forty and she was still getting
her menstrual cycle and very possible that she's pregnant. And
he was like, okay, we'll discuss it when i'm there.
He gets there, he's like, let me talk to the patient.
(06:16):
He goes to talk to her and he's like, yeah,
she told me there's no way she could possibly be pregnant.
It's just a false test. We're moving forward and I'm like,
what do you mean, Like she still gets her menstrual cycle.
She's I'm sure it's actually active, Like there's a huge chance,
and she was just there for like a brest augmentation
and lyft. I told the antesthesiologists and the like, let
me talk to the surgeon, and he talks to the surgeon.
They're both like, we're going through the case. She said
(06:39):
that there's no way she could be pregnant, and I'm like,
what do you mean. She said like she doesn't know.
And so they're both trying to convince me to move
forward with it, and I'm like, it's my name, it's
my license also, just so inethical to be doing this right.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And I guarantee you the thing, the thing that they're
falling back on is that the patient said it's okay.
So let me let me let me phrase this for
me to context. You could understand if my if I
ask my son, hey, is it okay with you that
you never go to school again? And he says yeah,
And I say, well, my kid never went to school
because my son said it was okay with him? Is
(07:12):
that okay? You asking the patient if it's okay for
them to do something that we know that is medically
unindicated is not a clearance. You don't get away with
it because the patient said it's okay. You have a
responsibility not to mention the patient is compromised. They want something.
They spent money to be there that day. It's a
real inconvenience. So you could see them being like, ah,
(07:38):
fuck it, let's just go with it. And then what
happens if she ends up giving birth and the baby's abnormal.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Well, that was the whole thing. The pregnantists that we
usually drain the ones with the lines, so he's like, oh,
the line's thing, I don't see a line, and then
I don't see that. I'm like, it's right there. So
I even went down in the pharmacy. I got one
one of the tests that say like positive negative exactly,
and it was positive, even not too positive positive. I
was like, I'm not doing this. I'm going home, Like
you guys can find another nurse. I don't know any
nurses who do this because we're the ones who signed
(08:04):
off on the pregnancy test, right because.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
You know, as well as I do.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Fast forward nine months, she has a not a healthy child.
She decides to have a child. Oh my god, I
was pregnant and the child is not normal. And who
are they gonna who is going to take the hit?
I mean me, I'm we're one hundred percent they're gonna
be like, we didn't know. The nurse told us it
was normal.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, And so they were just trying to kind of
almost bully me into doing the case. She said she
there's no way, there's something else, blah blah blah. And
I'm like, well, why doesn't she go figure out why
should be having a positive test and then come back
next month.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
She's not hemorrhaging. Yeah, she doesn't have a tumor that's
eroding into her A order, She's literally having a breast
dog no urgency. So I think that's a really big deal.
And I think this happens all the time. And what
happens is again, when the surgeon has a set is
his or her mindset they're doing the case, they will
(09:02):
make sure that everyone toes the line, whether that's the
antiseesiologist who doesn't want to do it the way they wanted,
whether it's the tech or the nurse, and more times
out than not, everyone's just gonna go ahead and just
be like okay, because number one, they're usually the senior person.
They're very aggressive. And number two, you need the job,
right The tech needs a job, the ansthesioloist needs a job.
(09:24):
The nurse wants the job. So you guys are sort
of in a very compromised position. So it's very unusual
for a nurse to be like, I'm so sorry, I'm
I'm gonna get the hell out of here, So bravo
do you Then we have another problem. You were telling
me that there were cases that you had heard about
or seen where you would do a massive surgery. We're
talking BBL three sixty LiPo, Tommy Tuck, breastog, this rhino facelift,
(09:50):
and the patient essentially had no work up and then
they're discharged like without much discharging instructions and they're sent
home to their family members.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah. I mean there's a lot of patients that I
meet the morning of that I work with surgeons and
I'm going over their discharge instructions, and for example, they're
got to a tumy tuck. I'd be like, okay, just
make sure you're an X y Z positioning after surgeons,
They're like, what do you mean No one ever told
me that? No one told me I have to do that?
And I'm like, this is basic stuff.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
No you meant that ever told you from that you're.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Gonna have a train, this is how you empty your drain.
They're like, no one told me I'm gonna have a drain.
And I was neither on the clinic side of things
with these doctors, so I was just like, how did
no one go over this stuff with you? So they're
being discharged with just extremely like false expectations, and I'm
going over everything with them, and they'll have, like you said,
all these huge surgeries where there's a million complications that
happened where they should be going to like an aftercare
(10:42):
of something like we send our pass to and they
just send them home with like their sister who has
no medical knowledge about anything like at all, which is
just right.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
And that's if there's ever a recipe for a disaster,
it's to do this massive surgery, don't tell the patient
any instructions, and then just hand them off to somebody
who knows nothing about healthcare. It's like, what are you
talking about how is this even? Okay, we on our
side and now you're part of it. We have a
(11:11):
huge pre op process. I mean there must be one
hundred pages there that we go through. We highlight, they sign,
then we remind them the day of the surgery by
the nursing staff, which happens to be. Then they're always
discharge to someone that's knowledgeable. If it's a family member,
and if it's a long case, they don't have a
say they have to go to an aftercare for twenty
four hours because God forbid something happens immediately. They need
(11:33):
to be in some environment at least somebody has a
clue what's going on. So that kind of environment, And
why do you think that is?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I mean, I think a lot of surgeons, because again
this is plastic surgery. It's mostly all elective, so I
think a lot of people try to not treat it
as like serious surgery. Then we're doing these huge cases,
we're doing three sixty body lifts, things like that, and
surgeons try to play an office Oh it's you know,
it's light, it's easy. It's an easy recovery. Because if
we don't tell them all the risks that are associated
with the or the calications that could happen. If you
(12:01):
do X, Y and Z, then the patient's likely to
not book.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
That is right there, bingo perfect. The reason this shit
happens is because if I, as the surgeon, minimize everything
about the surgery, oh pain, minimal recovery. You'll be back
to working out in two weeks, how much, three days,
you'll be back to work, And I just minimize everything.
The patient's like, oh, that's not a big deal, then
(12:27):
they're likely to book if they if I do what
I do, which is, your nipple can die, you can
get necrosis, you can get into hissions. I mean, I
go on and on and on, they're more likely not
to book. Or as you said, well the other guy
said I could be back to working out in five days,
you said six weeks. Fuck that, I'm gonna go to
the other guy. So they rather minimize it to the patients,
and then what happens afterwards, it's too late, it's too
(12:50):
it's too late. You've already paid for it. Like oop, sorry,
did I tell you there was Did I tell you
you could only you can go back to work in
four days? Well that meant three weeks? Like now you're
screwed in your the patient, you have to deal with it,
so one hundred percent you're one hundred percent accurate on
the reason why it's minimized. Other thing you mentioned to me,
and again, these are what I'm so excited about about
(13:10):
this episode is that this is stuff that you're experiencing.
I've heard about these things, but you're going through these
oars and you're like, oh my god, what is going
on here. You referred to it as.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
The the wild wild West.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
The wild wild West of Beverly Hills, which is so
accurate because it's kind of like everyone's everyone's operating room
is their own private little place. No one is really
checking in out of them except for the handful of
people that come and go. You said that they were complication.
There was a complication in a case, and the doctor
(13:40):
kind of was like denying that it happened like it
was a neumo thorax, which basically means which can happen
you're doing a breast augmentation, you're opening up a pocket,
you're underneath the muscle and above the ribs, and if
you inadvertently which you shouldn't, but if you inadvertently poke
through the ribs, you're going to get into the lungspan
that's called the pneumothrax. You're gonna drop along. It's it's
(14:03):
not an emergency. It's an emergency, and you kind of
know it. And you're telling me that happened. And then
the patient wasn't feeling right or he didn't he said that.
It was like, no, no, no, it didn't happen. What
ended up happening there.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
So that what happened is the patient was doing a
breast augmentation. Patient had a pneumothorax in surgery, and it's
kind of he said, she said, whatever. The patient recovery
was not doing well, vitals were all over the place.
We ended up sending the patient to the hospital. The
patient had a pneumothorax, and the surgeon was trying to
blame the antithesiologist, the anesthesiologist. It was like he said,
(14:39):
she said, but it was one of those things where
it happened during surgery, and I think the surgeonnew because
he's being a little shady with everything. And it's one
of those things that if you mistakes happen, things happen.
It's all about like addressing it right away, fixing it
right away, not trying to cover things up, especially when
it's medical, and it was just kind of one of
(15:00):
those things where he's just like, I didn't want to
take any blame. It wasn't his fall, and instead of
just doing the right thing and owning up to it
and learning everybody.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
And I think that's a really big issue. And I
think this recently. I told you about this case that
happened where patient ended up coding and they were in
recovery and the surgeon forbid the staff from calling nine
to one one for like hours, and the person ended
up being brain dead because they didn't want to alert
the authorities. And so, when and if a complication occurs,
(15:30):
the key to success from a complication is the speed
in the immediacy of reacting. You have a new more thorax,
you have an MII, you have a stroke. It's all
about minutes. So what happened so commonly is a surgeon listen,
whether it was due to bad surgery or it was inadvertent,
(15:51):
it's irrelevant at this point. Right, the shit happened, you
got a new me thorax, you punctured something, the patient is,
whatever the case is. The key at that point is
to be like it's irrelevant. Let's figure this out. Hey,
call nine one one. We have a problem immediately. This
dilly dowling and hoping it goes away and brushing it
under the carpet and covering up your tracks, aside from
(16:12):
being completely illegal, is wasting precious time for that patient.
And this happens all the time. I can probably tell
you as an expert witness. There's thousands of cases where
doctors from the minute they realized there was a problem
to the minute that they finally got the patient the
care they needed was always delayed because again, they they
don't want to take response. Hey, what did you do?
(16:34):
What do you mean? What did I do? Who cares?
It's done? Let's go, let's figure it out. So I
think that's incredibly incredibly uh common and wrong. This here
is actually something that is really common, which is patients
have surgery, they're under a long anesthetic, whether it's because
(16:57):
they had too much surgery or the anesthesia was too
heavy or whatever, they get into recovery, and what are
your instructions when a patient's recovery in terms of discharging them.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
You mean, in general, what is the.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Right way of doing things and what's sort of the
unspoken pressure that a nurse has. So you are a
recovery nurse. The patient comes out of the operating room,
and you have certain responsibilities when you discharge a patient.
That's what you learn in nursing school. And then there's
the unspoken pressure nurse feels that has nothing to do
with nurse nursing school, but rather the environment they're in.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
So, I mean when a patient comes to recovery, depending
of course, like how long their surgery was, where if
they're going after care and whatnot. I mean, there's a
minimum criteria for patients being discharged, but of course you
want to at least make sure they're awake, they can
talk to you, they're drinking water, the basics, their vitals
are good, they can get themselves dressed, things of that sort.
So typically after a surgery we keep them for about
an hour, sometimes a little bit more, just depending on
(17:57):
how they're doing. But whenever I discharge a patient, it's
when I'm comfortable with it. I can make sure the
patient's safe to go home or to aftercare. There's no
issues that I'm concerned about. But in a lot of
these places, it's all about turnover and starting the next case.
And let's keep it going, let's move fast. And sometimes
like they're like, the wuation has been in recovery for
twenty minutes, why aren't you discharging? And they're like still
(18:17):
a sleep right, Like they're still in oxygen, they're not
ready to go home, they're in pain, they're throwing up,
and there's just this pressure that a lot of surgeons
are just like discharging to discharge her, get address, get
or out of here, and I'm like, the suasi is
nowhere ready to be discharge. Her vitals are like kind
of crappy like. So it's a lot of that happening
out here, a lot.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Right, a lot right. I think that's actually everything we've
talked about that's not illegal yet, even though it's kind
of is it's like borderline. But that's the most common
thing because time is money, and if you look at
what pushes a lot of all these completes, ninety percent
of the stuff you've said over these two episodes revolves
around money. If we eliminated money, money didn't ever get exchanged,
(18:57):
nobody would be doing these things. It's about booking the case,
getting the cases done, doing them fast enough, saving money.
It's all about cutting corners. So the reason that occurs
is because you need to be back in the operating room,
and while you're sitting there recovering the patient, you're wasting time.
But reality is a patient, the longer the case, the
(19:19):
more time they need in recovery. So if you do
a let's say a thirty minute chinnog, I'm making it up,
maybe they're by just sheer and you have a great anthesiologist.
Maybe in thirty five minutes of pation's alert crisp ready,
they're talking to you. They're sitting up, they're in no pain,
they're off the oxygen, and they're like, can I go home?
(19:39):
But no one's going to come out of an eight
hours marathon case. They've been on under anesthetic for eight hours,
they've had a ton of fluid exchange, they have a catheter,
are in, they're on oxygen, and they're gonna be up
and ready to leave it half an hour. They ain't
gonna ever happen. So for you to push the nurses,
and then the nurses again are under pressure because if
(20:00):
you want to be brought back, they want to know
that you're an efficient nurse who signs off that the
patient was ready to leave surgeon, right, but it's also
you're doing the charting. Yeah, so when the patient eats
shit and doesn't do well and has a code, they're
going to be like, so, Paula, I don't understand you
discharged her, you felt she was ready? What were your
(20:22):
last set of idols? Why don't you tell me what
her status was, what was her cognition? And what are
you going to do? Then say, well, the surgeon told me.
You have your own license, you're your own person. So again,
this is happening every single day, and this one, you know,
because how many people have complained about feeling rushed when
they left.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
A lot of the times sometimes people just don't remember it.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
So their family members, Oh, their family members remember it.
They're like wait, wait, wait, wait, you want me to
take her home? She's like slurring her speech. Yeah, why
are you putting her in the car? Ready? Da da
da da da. I heard that from our old facility,
not with my patients, well even with my patients, because
it wasn't my facility. But anytime we would hear that,
we'd call and be like, hey, why are you rushing
our patients out? Because when I use the facility, it's
(21:02):
not my facility. Now I have my own facility, but
then I was at the mercy of the way the
facility ran it, and yes they wanted to be efficient.
So that's a really, really big issue. Another real issue is,
again I just said, we're pulling out money, right, So
where is one of the easiest ways to save money
(21:22):
is in staffing staff staff staff. So when you have
a badass antiseesiologist and an amazing tech a phenomenal recovery
or circulating nurse, it's expensive. You have some of the
best staff. When you have a CRNA and your tech
just graduated and your nurse literally last week was injecting
(21:43):
botox and now she's a recovery nurse, it's less expensive.
And so you cannot compare those two environments. So I
think you were saying that you noticed a lot of facilities.
Nothing wrong with hiring a new grad but on their
own in an island, never been trained doing crazy cases. Right.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, there's one facility I was done in particular where
instead of having like two or three high quality nurses
or something like that, he would hire like fifteen new
grads and he wouldn't provide them with any training. He
would just kind of set them free. And this is
like this is also in COVID time, so this isn't
a lot of the nurses were just going to school
all online. They've never interacted with the patient their life,
(22:25):
learned everything on zoom, and now they're like administering medications,
they're mixing medications, they're dealing with patients, they're starting ivs,
and they have never had any patient experience. So I
was at one of those places, and a lot of
these nurses were either new nurses or new to the
operating room because operating them is a whole different world
than to flores. So there was just a lot of
things like nurses would come up to be like, oh,
(22:46):
how do you do this? I'm about to give this,
and I would just be like, are you kidding me?
Like just the medication eras.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
That I would see, So medication. So what happens when
you have a young nurse or a young surgeon, or
a young pilot or a young young young is they
make errors and that's how they learned. But they need
to be supervised. So some of the errors you would
see is medication errors. I mean, for the love of God,
you pushed the wrong med or the wrong dose of
a med. You kill a patient. Boom right there on
(23:12):
the spot. Oh my god, what was that? What did
we just give her? Oh that was epinephrine. We didn't
ask for epineffrin. We asked for whatever.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
Oops. Yeah. There was one situation in particular where I
was working for a surgeon and he was like, it
was my first time with him, and he was watching
me make the two mess that which is the fluid
like issuction that the surgeon puts in, and he was
watching me like a hawk. And I was my first
day and I was like, do you feel more comfortable
making it? Like what's wrong? And he was like, oh,
I just had a nurse here not that long ago.
(23:39):
And she put Marcain instead of light a Kane inside
of the two Messa, which is like toxic, right, And
he was like yeah. And he was like I only
realized halfway through the case because I needed more. And
I watched her make more and I saw her drawing
up Marcaine and then I realized she was drawing marcat
instead of light a Caine and I had already put
in a lot into the patient. He's like, and she
didn't even realize thought that was a problem because she
(24:01):
was a new nurse, right, so you know, the patient
was transported, it was in the ICU for like a
week intubated. Thank god she made it. But things like that,
you know, it's nurses don't new nurses don't even know
that it's.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
A problem, right, it's and again it's no fault of
their own because inevitably all professions have to learn on
the job. Like I can do surgery behind my attending
for so long, but at some point I have to
be like do I cut here or do I cut here?
And of course when I started twenty years ago, I
probably made more errors than I make today. There's no
(24:36):
pilot that's not better after thirty five years. But I also,
you get more supervision, or you take on lesser cases,
or you do you know what I mean, You started
a GI lab where the stakes are lower and the
patients don't get a ton of meds. You don't go
start out in the cardiac ICU when you just graduated
last week. There's places in escalation of experience, and so
(24:57):
the reason they do it is it's cheaper. It's just
cutting cutting corners, and it leads to lots of lots
of errors. I think one of the things you said
to me that that actually was one of the like, oh,
are you serious? Come on, So, I've seen any caesiologists
(25:18):
who sit so the anti caesiologists, in my opinion, have
a really chill job, right. They sit behind the blood
bain blood brain barrier, aka, we put a drape up
and they're behind the drake. They're doing whatever they're doing
as long as the patient stays asleep and their vitals
are stable. Really they could, you know, pay any ces
y'ologists leave the room. Any caesiologists do their stocks. But
(25:42):
really they're just they're kind of bored. They are pilots.
It's all about takeoff and all about landing. Once they
get the patient to cruising altitude, it's autopilot, right, So
the doctors are you know, bored. And I've seen you know,
we talked about there's antithesiologists like I can't eat during
a case, right, I'm starving, I can't eat. I'm physically scrubbed.
(26:07):
You might stick a candy in my mouth or something,
but I'm not going to break scrub and go. I
mean I have to break scrub to go eat. I
have to leave the operating room. So I have had
anti caesiologists eating full on meals, right, You've.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Seen like saying that.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, Like you're like you all of a sudden, you're like,
is that orange? And then you pull down the thing
and they're like literally peeling open an orange. You know,
orange has that like mist that comes out. They're like
you look over there, there's like they're having pizza. What
are you doing? Leave the goddamn oar, like step out
for a second. Whatever. But you told me you saw
(26:39):
someone vaping.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah, so you know, the drape is up so you
don't see them because we're on the other side of things,
and I just we're in an oar, like, so I'm like,
I just saw smoke and I was like it's something
on fire, Like, what's going on? What's happening? And then
the surgeon's like he looks at Me's like, oh, that's okay,
don't worry. You know, He's like, what's going on?
Speaker 1 (26:58):
What do you mean that's okay, don't worry. There their
buddies like.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
I don't even know what to say about that, but yeah,
he was just behind the drapes vaping and then I
was like, what are you? Like, I was like so shocked. Like,
what are you doing? So he when he saw I
was freaking out, he went out of the OAR and
he went to like the recovery area which is literally
like ten feet away, and starts vaping over there. And
I'm like, this whole oar is like hot box, Like
what are you doing? I was like in.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Disbelief, Like it that that's up there in one of
the craziest things I've ever heard. It's like it's you know,
it's like when it's it's if you would have caught
one of them, which is which has been caught before
you look over and they're shooting themselves up with propofol
or some of the drugs, which unfortunately, sadly usually almost
always ends to overdose and dying of the ante caesiologists.
(27:45):
But to be vapor just chilling back there and just
going and blowing this vape into the room while the
patient's cavity is open is just crazy bananas. But I
don't know, I actually think this other thing might be worse.
You told me that there was as where the doctor
left the building. Oh yeah, so wait, I just want
you to understand there might be a situation in which
(28:07):
vaping in the oar could be trumped by something else.
So what happened here?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
I just can't make this stuff up.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
That's why I told you. I genuinely, I'm saying this
from the bottom of my heart. You and I'll do
it with you. We should write a book. We should
write a book. It'll be a short paperback book. It'll
be it'll be just for fun, and we'll call it
O R Nightmares, you know, like doctors and nursing's experience
or something. Because between the two of us, and I
(28:33):
have my own stories as well, but this one I
wanted you to share because when I share it, it's
kind of like, oh, doctor Ron, you're a drama queen.
Oh you're You're always trying to make everything seem like
it's like coming out of your mouth. It just makes
it so much better because it's like, listen, this is
her experience, guys, and you, and this is what I witness.
You've seen it by all these surgeons and all these
(28:54):
amazing facilities in the best place on earth. So for
you to say it is a totally different animal. So
what is this final thing here? Now?
Speaker 2 (29:01):
What happened? I went to interview at a facility out
here in Beverly Hills and I came to the OAR
and I was obviously expecting to meet the surgeon because
he's got to be working with and his manager was
showing me on the place. I was like, Okay, it
looks like a great place. You know what, am I
gonna be? Surgeon? And he's like, oh, he's in surgery.
I was like, okay, let's just go pop in there,
like I want to see the or too. So we
(29:22):
go in and I don't see the surgeon, but they're operating,
and I just thought, okay, maybe it's his fellow or
something and they're doing liposuction. And the person who's doing
liposuction like turns around. And me being in Beverly Hills
for forever, I know a lot of the people out here,
and it's a.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Tech okay, So you walk into the OAR to meet
the surgeon and you're like, oh, the doctor Smith is
not here, and it's like you see their office the
light wing. The person turns around. You're like, oh, hey, Josh,
the tech and right now you're like oh fu.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And I looked and like my everything I feel is
on my face and I was like, what are you doing?
And he's like, oh, we're just saying like life with
three six people. I'm like, yeah, yeah, but water you doing.
I was like shocked, and oh our manager saw that.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
I was just like freaking out.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
I was freaking out. I was freaking out, and I
was like, what's going on? Like what are you guys doing?
Where's the doctor? Maybe scrubbed out to go to the restroom,
like does he know that the tech is doing this?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Right?
Speaker 2 (30:18):
And then he's like, oh, he just stepped up for lunch.
She should be back in ten minutes, like left the building,
went to lunch across the street.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
You're not talking about he's in the in the break room.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
No, no, no, he left the building and went across
the street to like the cafe or whatever was across
the street to go have a lunch while his pain,
Like it's just this patient went to sleep thinking Okay,
I'm going to get like with three six to bb
out by doctor so and so, And there's a tech
doing the whole.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Case and the doctor is not even because in the room.
Because this because we talked about this in episode one,
you have witnessed text operating. I'm not talking about closing,
which in and of itself is operating, but you know,
they'll like to minimize it, like, oh, it's just closing.
But you have we talked about in this first episode
that you watched Text operate cottery late. But in those instances,
(31:01):
at least the doctor at least at least the murder
was done, you know whatever. At least they were in
the goddamn oar or in their office next door or
something in the possibility that, oh, wow, is that liver
on the tip of my liposuction candidate? Did I go
through the ribs and enter the liver? Oh? Is that
(31:22):
spleen that I just punctured? They're there, you're telling me.
They're out of the.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Building, And it's just Text don't like they know anatomy
the basics, but they don't know to the extent of
It's not like they went to medical school.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I mean, if there's a reason why I'm not flying an.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Airplane, right, So it's just crazy to me that what
if you perfowel you don't even know, and then then
you just charge this patient and then they end up
dying at home. It's just madness to me.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
It's madness, and it really is. The truth of the
matter is all of this madness. First of all, awesome
that you are here and you're sharing these stories with me,
because you are now corroborating what we've been trying to
do with the podcast for since it's Exception twenty nineteen,
which is bring heightened awareness to the consumer, which in
(32:09):
surgery is the patient that hey, don't be frightened, don't
not do it, just do it correctly. And up until now,
I'm usually the only one able to say, hey, don't
do this, Hey don't do that. When this happens, this happens,
and I'm always the one. So but since you now
have clinical experience, you've actually been there yourself, you can
(32:33):
add and highlight and expand on what I've been seeing
and the ability of you to share stories outside of
my arena, and that of what we would consider the
gold standard is is it's utterly frightening, shocking, and disturbing,
but it's still needed to be known. And the reality
is that I don't even know how to advise patients
(32:55):
because normally we say do your homework right that, Like,
we tried that. So if I were listening to this
two episodes, I'd be like, what am I supposed to do?
You're telling me it's sports certified surgeons. Right. Yeah, you're
telling me it's in Beverly Hills, right, which means don't
(33:16):
cut corners and don't not spend the money, right, Because
you know, we always are like, yeah, well you she
went to a strip mall, Like, what did you expect?
Oh it was one thousand dollars? What do you expect?
Oh it was a cosmetic surgeon. What did you expect? Like,
we always have a good explanation, but what do you
suppose how do we guide these patients? Listening going okay, well,
how am I supposed to avoid this? I mean, like
the guy was legit, I went to the right place,
(33:37):
I spent this money, I went to sleep, and you're
telling me all these things are occurring. Genuinely, I'm asking
you because I'm almost a little flabbergasted, like what do
we how do we? How do we avoid this? How
do you how do you what would you tell your aunt?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
I would say, during your consultation with the patient, I
mean with the surgeon, ask them question just as many
questions as they're asking you, Like, that's your time to
figure out what surgeon you are going to go to.
So I would ask them the questions of do you
do the whole surgery by yourself or do you have
an assistant? Do you close everything by yourself? And see
how they react, because a lot of patients don't even
know that someone else that's an option. Obviously, patients think
(34:16):
the surgeons during my whole surgery. So I feel like
if you ask them and they get kind of caught
off guard or see how their answer is, you'll be
able to feel Theah, yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Mean I do think that. Let me ask you this
as I go on to when you think of the
collective whole of the surgeons that have done this, how
many of them were when you now think back, doctor
so and so did that, doctor so and so did that?
How many of them were you surprise? Meaning you wouldn't
have expected that from that doctor.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
I feel like I could, I could have kind of,
I guess guessed that they would do something.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
Never to this extent, No, no, forget about the extent. Yeah,
but how many of the doctors that were involved in
all of these egregious things? How many of them were
you like, I can't believe doctor Rabon allowed this to
happen under his watch? How many of them were you
like none of them. None. So the problem is if
(35:15):
you know off camera, I know who the doctors are,
and none of them surprise me. Like I'm like, oh, okay,
well the things surprised me, but the fact that they
were those doctors didn't surprise me. But the problem is
that patients don't know that because they're patient facing persona
is cleaner than what you and I know them and
(35:37):
I want what I want. What I'm struggling with is
I want if I want to I always want to
leave patients when they leave an episode with a tool
like if you want to avoid X, then this is
what you should do, and then they go home with
that and these two episodes are so frightening, and I
want to know what to tell them so that they
can avoid this. The reason why having you on was
(35:58):
so criticals because you're talking talking about the best of
the best in far their concern. So I do think
what Paula said is probably right, which is, let me
see if I could distill it for you. When you
do your consults, not your Instagram consult, not your TikTok consult,
(36:19):
not all the influencer consults, not all the bullshit that
I could pay for But when you actually meet the
doctor and you spend more than five minutes with them,
so your consult should be forty five minutes, you should
be long. So why you're about to go on a
speed date. You're going to go out to coffee with
someone and then you're going to marry them. So if
(36:40):
I'm going to marry Paula and we're going to meet
for coffee, I'm gonna try to spend as much time
as I can with Paula because this is the only
time I'm going to figure out Paula. Right, my PA's
going to be my wife, Paul's gonna have my kids,
Paul's going to make the difference in my life. So
I'm not going to meet Paula for five minutes and
ask her some bullshit ask questions and then marry her.
I'm gonna ask are you a Republican? Are you're a Democrat?
Do you what's your thought process on money? Where's your
(37:02):
religious right? I'm gona asking some very hard questions because
I only got this speed date to figure this out.
So Number one, I think what policid was right. When
you go to the actual consul, make sure it's a
long console. Make sure, you bombard them with these questions.
Do you ever leave the operating room? Do you close
everything yourself? Do you have anyone in the room besides
you that actually does any part of the surgery, any
(37:23):
of that stuff? Does your tech ask them directly? Does
your tech close? Who's your antithesiologist? How long have you
known them? How many cases have you done with this antithesiologist?
Are your nurses new grads? Or are they like all
the things we said to you? Asked them? Because She's right,
you'll catch them off guard. They'll usually not answer in
(37:45):
a way that I think you'll be like, oh that
was authentic, Oh that seemed like they were telling the truth.
And I think if you ask enough of them, you'll
catch them in their lie, because otherwise I think that
you're just going to you know, board sort of five
plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills who's got a lot of
followers and tons of reviews doesn't mean shit, It really doesn't.
(38:05):
And and sadly this is just one of those things
that you got to have a gut. But I think
that there are the reason why why I asked her,
that is because I do think if you knew these
surgeons like we know them. You wouldn't have even questioned it.
You wouldn't have been like, you would have not I
think she said, I don't I'd be shocked at the
extent of it. But none of the people she mentioned
(38:27):
to me, I was like, what, really, so and so
did that, because that's who they are. They're all kind
of like, hey, ho, you know, slickster Beverly Hills, plastic surgeon,
driving fast cars and you know, hooking up with their managers.
It's just that environment, and usually things of this nature
(38:49):
occur in those environments. At any rate. We're so grateful
a for you now being on board with our team.
Hopefully you equally feel the love affair and that you
will not have any further such stories. Sadly, you will
not have any more of this drama.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
I hear about it from other nurses all the time.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Though, right, Yeah, and so that will add to our book.
I think we'll have an addition one, two, and three. Perhaps. Secondly,
we're grateful that you're willing to share these stories. Not
everybody wants to come and talk about these things. This
is where we talk about taking a stand, having some courage,
speaking up against what's wrongdoing and now that you are,
(39:30):
you know, in a safer environment. It's great that you're
having this conversation because you could just kind of like,
I don't really want to talk about it. I just
you know, it is what it is, but I don't
think you would. You can help a lot more people
by sharing it. So thank you for sharing it. And
I'm sure we'll have more episodes about this because you'll
eventually accumulate some more stories and we'll have you on.
We'll definitely have you on because I want to have
(39:50):
you help us talk about Now that we talk about
all these disasters, I'd like you and me to talk
about what is the right way so that if you
guys are going to go have surgery, you're like, wait,
so what should it look like? And then we're going
to delineate for you step one, step two, step three,
so that if you're somewhere and you're having surgery and
it's not following this route, you know something's fishy. Okay,
(40:11):
Well that's another wrap for plastic surgery and censored. I
hope you enjoyed our two part series as much as
I did. As always, we ask two parting requests. Number one,
go write us a really fantastic, spectacular review. And secondly,
share this episode or the episodes and the show in
general with people you love, because you never know who's
gonna go have surgery and they're going to want to
have had this episode loaded and listened to. All Right, guys,
(40:35):
that's a rap. I'll see you next week on Plastic
Surgery and censored
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