November 3, 2021 • 41 mins
On the morning of December 29th, 1991, the body of a 36 year old woman was found nude in the men’s restroom of the bar where she worked in Phoenix, Arizona. She had been assaulted and fatally stabbed. No semen was left behind. With DNA testing in its infancy, serology could only show that any blood or saliva at the crime scene matched the victim’s blood type. There were, however, what appeared to be human bite marks on the victim’s breast and neck, and after a 34 year old bar regular named Ray Krone was identified as a potential boyfriend, the investigation relied on the junk science of bite mark analysis to send him to death row. Much later, DNA testing identified a convicted child molesterer as the actual killer, winning Ray’s freedom.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
On December, the body of a thirty six year old
bartender was found nude in the men's restroom of her
bar in Phoenix, Arizona. She had been assaulted and fatally stabbed.
No seaman was found, however, what appeared to be bite
marks were on her neck and breast, along with saliva.
With DNA testing still in its infancy, pyrology tests could
(00:24):
only show that both the blood and saliva at the
scene matched the victim's blood type. One witness implied that
the victim may have been dating a thirty four year
old bar regular named Ray Crone, who the victim allegedly
had mentioned was supposed to help her close up that night,
but since Ray had been at home with his roommate
at the time of the crime, he had nothing to hide,
fully cooperating with investigators and eventually giving a blood sample
(00:47):
and an impression of his teeth. With the limitations of
the prology in this case, the notorious junk science of
bite mark analysis became the sole evidence against Ray to judge.
His denial of a continuance for the defense to prayer
to refute this evidence made a path for a second trial,
but not before Ray was convicted and sentenced to death.
At the second trial, with the salivary DNA evidence excluding Ray,
(01:11):
he was still reconvicted, but this time the judge sentenced
rate of life while voicing his obvious doubts. In two
thousand two, further DNA testing both excluded Ray as well
as identified a convicted child molester named Kenneth Phillips as
the actual killer. Within days, Ray Crone became the former
death row inmate freed based on actual innocence since capital
(01:34):
punishment was reinstated in n This this wrongful conviction, Welcome
back to ronful conviction. Today's episode will rock your world.
(01:56):
And I say that with such a high degree of
confidence because story this man, Ray Crone, was the one
d exonoree from death row in the United States, and
his case is so troubling because, on top of all
the other terrible things, race case relied solely on the
junkiest of junk sciences, which is bite mark evidence that
(02:18):
was it nothing else. And furthermore, as happens too often
in too many of the cases that we cover, the
actual perpetrator went on to commit an unspeakable crime after
Ray was targeted. For reasons that we'll get into later
which are inexplicable, but they're real. So without further Ado,
(02:39):
Ray Crone, welcome to wrongful conviction. Well, thank you, I'm
glad to be here. And Ray, your case happened in
Maricopa County, Arizona, which has a notorious past of prosecutorial misconduct.
In fact, when referring to some more recent instances, and
a c l U article said, and this is a quote,
it is indicative of a decade long culture of misconduct
(03:01):
that flows from the top down, one that prioritizes winning
convictions over pursuing fairness and executing justice. End quote. And
to be fair, in Americopa, that quote could be applied
to uh countless prosecutors offices all over the country. But
in your case, the prosecutor was Noel Levy, who sent
at least two innocent people to death throw that we
(03:23):
know of, right, The first was Deborah Milky. Back in
Levy hid the lead detective's long history of lying under oath,
and that was exposed in two thousand fifteen, which allowed
Debora Milky to finally clear her name. And then, of
course you but before all of this insanity, can you
take us back a bit? What was your life like
growing up. Well, I was actually born and raised with
(03:46):
a small agricultural town in southern Pennsylvania. I went to
the same high school and my grandparents went to the
same church my great grandparents went to. I was involved
at church. I was on the choir, also played Little
League baseball, Peewee football. Is involve Alton sports. And I
grew up growing vegetables and hunting and fishing and the
typical things that small town country boys do. And graduated
(04:08):
nineteen seventy four and I entered in the U. S.
Air Force, so I signed it for six years active duty.
Was stationed places like Texas, Mississippi, then Georgia, Maine, and
then the last was Phoenix, Arizona. My six years were up.
I got out of there A few years later. I
got a job of the post office and and life
was really pretty good again. I played a lot of sports,
and that's really where my problem arose because of the
(04:29):
one bar that I played volleyball, four that I had
shot darts at a few times became a scene of
a murder right and this particular crime occurred on December
where the body of a thirty six year old woman
was found nude in the men's restaurant of the CBS
Lounge in Phoenix, Arizona. The bar owner had found the
body of the previous night's bartender and she had been
(04:52):
brutally assaulted and stabbed at death. Now this remember this
was back in the early nineties, right, so DNA testing
was still in its infancy, right it was. It was
a new thing, so they only had prology to work with,
and at the time, it seemed like there was very
little physical evidence left behind. There was no semen, right,
and the blood and saliva at the scene all matched
(05:15):
the victim's blood type. There were, though, um, what appeared
to be human bite marks on the victim's neck and breast. So,
which is We've talked about that before. How notorious they're reliable,
that is, but so ray from these facts. How did
they even come to suspect and ultimately target you. Yeah,
she was. She was found by the owner and he
came in on that Sunday morning to put up his bar,
(05:37):
found the front door unlocked, was concerned why his night
manager hadn't taken care of secured and heone made his
way to the cash reader to a safe both row
and on secured the money was still in there. As
he made his way around the bar, he found her
body in the men's bathroom, and of course the police
were called in and they initiated an investigation on the
sumption had to be somebody that knew her. No evidence
of breaking, no sign, but robbery. They talked to some
(05:58):
of the co workers, one of a mentioned my name
as a potential boyfriend. I did not dat her. She
was not my girlfriend. I knew her from the bar.
You treat bartenders and then waitresses kindly in any profession
if you're going to be attending that place of business,
and that's all it was. But it was about one
o'clock on that sudden the end I heard my dog
was outside. He started barking. Two men in suits had
(06:19):
pulled in front of my neighbor's house and we're getting
out of their car. And by the time I went
outside to let my dog and they were walking up
my driveway and I stepped out and it said, excuse me,
can I help you? The one man said, are you
Ray Crona. I said, well, yes I am. What can
I do for you? And he said, you know, and
I thought his say said I don't think I know
anybody named, and he exchanged glances with the man next
to him, look like he said, you don't know from
(06:40):
the CBS lounge. I said, well, wait a minute. I
played volleyball there, I shoot darts there. Sometimes there's a
girl their names. I said, I don't know her last name,
and he kind of looked at me. So he says,
you don't know her last name? Your boyfriend, aren't you.
I kind of said no, I'm not her boyfriend. What's
going on here? He said, well, you're dating your aren't you.
I said, no, I'm not dating. What is this about?
And at that point, he opened up his jacket, pulled
(07:00):
has badge, identified himself as homicide detective and informed me
of her death. Said he was there to ask me
a few questions. Now I'm stunned. I've been going to
that bar about two months. Here's somebody I knew was
a victim of a homicide, and the police are at
my house to ask me questions. The first thing I said,
I was sure, come on inside, and he said no,
we really need to do this downtown. And so I
was interrogated for the next three hours about how long
(07:21):
we've been dating, where did I take her on dates
when every time she's been to my house all of them,
I told him, we're negative. You know, she never been
to my house. I didn't date her. I would see
her at the bar. I was at a Christmas party
with a number of people from the bar at one
point with her and that was it. At one point
they took my sneakers out. Another point they took mug shots.
They had me take my shirt off, took pictures of
upper torso, they took fingerprints. Another party, he had like
(07:43):
a white ster foam cups had a tied two pieces
together where I actually been into that and I cooperated.
I didn't know anything about her death. I didn't know
her that well. I was at home that night. I
have a roommate that knows I was home that night,
and after about three hours it was over and I
thought that was the induct But then the next day,
which was a Monday, I went to the post office,
delivered my mail, got home that day and there he
(08:04):
was waiting. Detective Gregory said, I need to eliminate user suspect.
I don't think you've been completely truthful. You want to cooperate,
don't you? Mr Crone And I said, sure, what is
it you need me to do? And he said, I
need you to come downtown again again. I volunteered to
go towntown this time. When I got down there in
a little interrogation room, right away, he pulled out a
piece of paper said, oh, yeah, by the way, I
have a affidavit here your request for for evidence, and
(08:27):
that it said that you were going to take a
blood sample or hair sample to cast in my teeth.
Now I'm a little upset. Now I'm concerned, like what's
going on here? I was signed by a judge said
I was required to give these samples, and it said
they had three hours to do it. So I cooperated
when he took blood out of both arms. I'm not
sure why that was necessary. I cooperated when he took
hair samples, and then I was taking next door in
(08:47):
a bigger room where there was a dentist and a
dentist chair set up, at which point they sat me
into chair, put this goup, and he took two casts
in my upper teeth to cast my lower teeth, And
for about the next two and a half hours was
nothing but taking pictures in question me about my dentition history.
When I was eighteen years old. I was a passenger
and a head on collision. I woke up with a
broken jaw, mouth wear and shut. Six weeks went by.
(09:09):
The bottom jaw didn't line up at the top. They
had a rebreak and wear and shut again for another
six weeks. I had some teeth and it eventually had died.
I had some teeth issues, root canals, if some bridge work,
some different things that went on with the front teeth
in my mouth and foundly when that was over, I
went next door to that little interrogation room at Wedgpoint
to detective banged his desk with his big old book
and said, look, it's time to come. Please, time to
(09:30):
tell the truth. I know you didn't once you just
confess that we can all go home. Well, by now
I was pretty angry. I was pretty upset with what
was going on way I was being treated. I was
almost thirty five years old. I'm not a little child.
I spoke up to him. I told him what I
thought of him, when I thought the investigation the police department,
Why you waste my time go find a person that
did this? And by the way, your three hours were up,
I mean I was hot and he looked at me,
(09:52):
looked at his watch, he looked back up. He said, look,
Mr Crown, I'm not gonna argue with you. There's other
ways to handle this. He took me home in fifteen
minute ride, never said a word to him again. I
thought that was the end of it, but I found
out what he meant by other ways to handle this
The next day, December thirty first, was just about four o'clock.
I pulled into my driveway, just stepped out of my car,
which point, all of a sudden, they heard a speak
(10:12):
or go off, freeze, don't move your underrest or. Van
load of police officers came pulling up. Black and whites
came pulling up. The van doors opened up with armed
officers in full riot gear, threw me on the ground
and rested me for murder, kidnapping, and sexual assault. Jesus Christ,
So there you are spending New Year's Eve in a
jail cell, and from what I understand, you stayed right
(10:34):
there until trial. But you had your roommate right who
had been home with you that night, so it should
have seemed like you could clear this up pretty easily.
And from what I understand, you had a public defender
did they share the same optimism. One day I got
called out to a legal visit. I've probably been in
there for a good month or two, and it's just
(10:54):
like you see on TV with a separate area where
one picks a phone and you talked through clear glass.
And I was in there in a lady came inside
a briefcase down, picked up the phone and identified herself
as representing the Public Defender's office, and she said, you've
been charged with murder, kidnapping, its sexual assault. You can
expect to be found guilty, but we'll fight it on appeal.
And I went crazy, What do you mean if he
found getting had not do his own? But I just
(11:15):
started going off, ranting and raven and she got the
phone held away from her ear, waiting for me to
calm down. And she got back in that phone and
she said, listen, Mr Crone, let me tell you something.
I don't take that tone of voice from the judge.
I don't take it from the prosecutor, and I'm certainly
not going to take it from you. Hung up the phone,
picked up a briefcase and was going and I thought,
this is incredible, what what what is the system? I
(11:35):
believed and what the country. I believe that things I
stood for and was talking, you know, raised to believe. Anyway,
I got a letter about a week or two later
for the Public Defender's office that stated that they were
being removed from my case. They cited a conflict interests
at the next most likely suspect was the victim's ex husband.
They had a fifteen year old daughter together, and he
did a sleepover for her birthday and did something inappropriate
(11:58):
with one of her little girlfriends, and we arrested rightfully.
So and they were representing him, and I was told
that I would beginning a court of pointed attorney. I thought,
oh good, I'm gonna get a private attorney. Now, somebody's
gonna be appointed to representate. Somebody will do the job.
But unfortunately, the day I went before the judge to
get a courter pointed attorney, it was a man had
never done a death penalty case. And at the point
where the judge appointed him to me, he was granted
(12:20):
five thousand dollars to defend me, to represent me in
a capital murder case. Yeah, and of course the state
has unlimited resources to do what they want to do. Heck,
you can't even get a divorce for five thousand dollars. Yeah,
don't don't, I know it, believe me. But and they're
giving really just enough to create the impression that they're
(12:40):
enabling you to mount some sort of a defense, but
not enough realistically for anybody to amount a real defense.
So seven months after the murder, you're on trial. This
was a three and a half day trial. The prosecution
was pretty much all three days. And that's why I
found out why they had me biden that stereopham that
first day, why they took those casts my teeth the
(13:01):
second day, because they had a bite mark expert testify,
a Ray Rosen out of Nevada, very impressive, well spoken man.
He was a dean of the UNLB Dental School. He
was a state center out of Las Vegas. He was
the elder in the Mormon Church. Very powerful speaker, very convincing.
We had later found out very well paid over fifty
dollars by the Maricopa County d A's office for his testimony.
(13:23):
But his testimony was that my teeth were unique as
a result of the car accident. I was in my
teeth matched the marks in the body, and then those
marks in the body were made at the time of death,
and that definitively made me Ray crown the murder. There
really wasn't much other evidence, but I was called a
snaggertooth killer in the papers, the snaggletooth killer. So for
ten times what you got for your whole defense, that
(13:46):
fifty grand even came with a schoolyard bully nickname, right,
And what they're really paying for with a forensic ode
ontologist is their resume, pomp and circumstance, because if you
were looking for substance and bite mark analysis, well they're
just isn't any there's not a shred. I can't even
(14:06):
I can't even put into words the disdain I have
for this particular junk science. I encourage everyone to listen
to our series Rawful Conviction Junk Science. The first episode
exposes bite mark analysis for what it really is. And
let's start out by saying that one of the original
purposes of forensic odentology is identifying human remains with dental records.
(14:29):
What I mean is, for instance, like a person was
on a flight, right and the flight crashed into a
mountain side or whatever, it gets obliterated, But now you've
got a situation where you're matching a limited and known
set of bodies to corresponding dental impressions and dental histories.
So you have a full set of teeth that you're
comparing to a full set of X rays from a
(14:50):
dentist's office. But with bite mark analysis, the so called
expert pretends without taking into account that the many, many
variables of the medium on which a bite was recorded. Right,
So what I mean is, in this particular case, human
skin and tissue, so we're talking about elasticity, decomposition. I
(15:11):
could go on, but from there they act as if
they're able to match perfectly a dental mold from a
suspect to marks made on a surface that's transitioning, and
they claimed to be able to do this to the
exclusion of all others on the planet, as Ray Rosen
did in this case. So yeah, no, But as Ray mentioned,
(15:34):
they impressed the hell out of the jury with their
witnesses purported credentials, and this time tested method has tragically
been very effective at producing convictions, often with no other
evidence of any kind. So that was the state's case.
But what about your defense? Now, the second half the trial,
which was a defensive turn, which was like the last
(15:56):
half a day. I actually took the stand. I raised
my right hand, I went up there answer of my
attorney's questions, and there came the prosecutor. No LEVI got
up there right in front of me right away. So
you deny killing the victim? I said, yes, I do
you deny being the CBS down. I said, what night
you said the night you killed her? Of course, crowne
the night you brutally took her life. I just started
tearing into me. I mean everything I said was twisted around,
(16:16):
and after two or three hours was cross examination. I
come down off that way to sand I mean so disordered, confused,
almost what over sat down next to me. Next was
my roommate. My roommate was going through divorce. He had
two children. Most of his money was going to support
those children. He was staying with me for a month
or two, had been there already. He raised his right
hand testify to tell the truth there in that court
of law, and sat down and answered my attorney's questions.
(16:39):
And then here come no Lee began to cross examine him.
Stirred there in front of a minute with his arms
cross said, now you know Ray Crown a long time,
haven't you my friend? Steve said, yes, that's right, it's
been twelve years since we were near forced together. And
then the prosecutre setting Ray Crown has always been a
good friend to you. I've been there times in need,
times of trouble, looked out for you, helped you out.
In fact, he's even given you a place to live
right now, isn't he? My friends to He kind of straight?
(17:01):
And I said, yes, that's right, that's the kind of
guy where he is. And then the prosecutor lean right
over the space point to figure out and said, and
you'd lie for him, wound you and turned and walked
away and sat down. Later on a closing arguments, he
told the jury disregard with friend, a man who raises
right hand to serve the United States Air Force, a
man who raises right hand to tell his truth in
the court of law. They told that jury to disregard
his testimony because he's just there to protect me and
(17:23):
will say anything. And took the jury just three and
a half hours to come back and find me guilty
and murder and kidnapping. So now you go back for sentencing,
and you would not have seemed to be a likely
candidate to get the death penalty, especially with your background.
But in fact that's what happened. To sit there and
going through a mini trial with the call an aggravating
(17:43):
mitigating hearing, and again this is their go to big
tough guy prosecutor before a judge. It was an ex
prosecutor response for a half a dozen people in the
death row already and to sit through this the first
part of the aggravating part by the prosecution where they
have to argue why this is above and beyond the norm.
For the worst of the worst, you have to have
aggravated factors, at least one to get a death sense.
They used the bike mark said it was gratuitous violent
(18:04):
successive pain and suffering on a soft tissue, or whought
she was still alive, the pain and suffering she must
have went through. Or because they're great at covering any
possibilities and all their bases, and he said, or it
was after she was already dead. That's heinous, and the
prey that's tampering with dead body. That's just sick. And
it's all his suppositions. He don't know what happened, but
he even had a dress dummy up there showing how
(18:25):
this was hacked and this was cut, and how she
was been I mean very very powerful. And then of
course came the defense is turned to put on the mitigating. Well,
how do you mitigate something you didn't do? How do
you show remorse regret for an act you never committed.
I told me, turn, I got nothing to apologize for.
I didn't kill it. They got the wrong person. And
he said, well, we'll put your family, your friends, or
we can have them testify to your good behavior background.
(18:46):
I said, you're not putting my family, my people that
I know on that standard be cross examined by that prosecutor.
I said, no way, it's not gonna happen. And he said,
we have to tell the judge that right. Well, so
I did, and I was probably calling an own remorseful
killer a horrible monster, and was sentenced to death. This
(19:12):
episode is underwritten by A i G, a leading global
insurance company, and by Accenture, a global professional services company
with leading capabilities in digital, cloud and security. Working to
reform the criminal justice system is a key pillar of
the A i G Pro Bono Program, which provides free
legal services and other support to many nonprofit organizations. And
(19:32):
individuals most in need as part of Accenture's commitment to
racial and civil justice. Accenture's Legal Access Program provides pro
bono legal services in partnership with more than forty organizations,
bringing meaningful change to people and communities worldwide. Within a
(19:55):
week's time, I was transported by a bus straight to
the death Row in Arizona. That's just about a five
by seven center block Walt cell had still bars on
the front side where the door was. There was a
little trapped there. That's where they fed you through, put
the bail through. I can tell you I never got
to hot me on death Row, or mules sat in
the hallway, so they felt like feeding this. I got
to one sheet, one towel, one army blanket. There was
(20:18):
a subment slab that had a about a two inch
pad on it. I wrapped my sneakers in my towel.
That was my pillow, and that's where I was to
live now until they decided when I was going to
die again. My friends and family believed to me, supported me,
but I knew this cell and death Row was going
to be my home for quite a while. And I'm
gonna have to learn a survivement here and learn what
I can about the system to prepare myself for what
(20:39):
I need to know to fight it in the future
if I ever had that chance again. And you did
get that chance again because the Arizona Supreme Court overturned
your conviction on direct appeal. I mean, it's a freaking miracle, right,
And how did that miracle come to pass? Well, they
still had law library then, and so I started going
(21:01):
and reading the law books. I actually became a legal
representative to help other inmates there in prison, both on
their cases or with the disparayer issues. So I learned
a little bit about how that works most states whenever
you're sentenced to death and automatically goes direct appeal to
that state supreme court. And in my case, I have
to say, God bless my worthless attorney. He actually did
something worthwhile right before our trial was to start, and
(21:22):
he was on a Friday and trial started Monday. We
were taken into the courtroom there in the prosecution introduced
a videotape made by their bite mark expert, about forty
minutes long, about how he conclusively matched my teeth using
the latest techniques to these bite marks on her body,
very impressive, very powerful evidence, and my attorney was awake,
he was actually paying attention. He said, your honor, I've
never seen this evidence before. You can't allow this in.
(21:44):
At the last moment, the judge said, Dina, and I'm
gonna allow this in. He said, you got the weekend
to consult with this expert. And then in the burst
of brilliance, we actually said you're honor and lighted that ruling.
If you're gonna allow that evidence, and I'm gonna have
to ask for a thirty day continues. I am not
prepared for this evidence. I need thirty more days. And
as I said, the judge consistent, he was an ex
prosecutor at people on death row. He said, denied, He said,
(22:05):
we need to get this trial rolling. So just seven
months from the murder, he needed to get the trial rolling.
The Arizonas were Supreme Court reviewed the issue for what
it was. They said my attorney was well within the
rights for asked for a continuance. They said the judge
was wrong for allowing that in at the last moment.
As a defendant, you have a right to know what
Evan is going to be used against you. You have
a right to receive that in a timely manner. But
(22:26):
just because there's a mistake of technicality and air made
does not mean you walk free. There's two parts to it,
and the second part is called harmless error evaluation, and
this is where they review this piece of evidence, this emission,
this error, whether or not it would affect the verdict,
Would the jury even cared? Did this matter? And the
exact words were without this videotape, there wasn't even a
jury submissible case against Mr Crone. They recognized this was
(22:50):
about a bite mark, that this was critical evidence. The
judge was wrong, and they ordered a new trial. And
you were lucky enough to have a strong family support
system throughout your fight. What did they do to help
in the lead up to your second trial? And so
God bless him. They mortgaged their house, They cashed him
with retirement funds. There was different people that gave their
income tax returned money to my family. And I had
(23:13):
a second cousin out in California. He was reasonably well
off and he'd heard about this from his mother and
he was dumbfound was like, what kind of family come
from with a murderer on death row? And that he
was intrigued. He came to visit me on death row
and talk with me, and when he was done, he said,
something doesn't sound right here. And he became a real
champion for the fight for my innocence. And he knew
attorney out of California from talking through him. The attorney said,
(23:34):
let me take the case. We couldn't come near the
hundreds of thousands of dollars required, but he said, just
paid the expenses. I believe in raid this case is
no good. Let me take the case. And so now
we had a person very experienced attorney. When he showed
up for that trial, I mean he had books and
books about it. Stuffing he had found out that we
never knew about in our first draft, Things that they
had done with everything from even blood sampling and testing
(23:55):
and stuff that we never knew had been done. More
about footprints and fingerprints that had been found that we
never knew about. And all this stuff was coming out
at our second trial. And when that second trial's family
started in February of nineteen, it lasted over seven weeks.
Over five exhibits were introduced. We had three bite mark
experts tests for the defense alone. It was a whole
(24:17):
different scenario now, and it was starting to feel good
about the truth was coming out at this trial. Yep.
And the truth sure did come out all right. So
you had DNA testing done on the saliva from the
bite mark that identified a different contributor, confirming that it
belonged neither to you nor the victim. So I think
(24:37):
now everybody is probably on the edge of their seats
going okay, So now comes the happy ending, right you think,
I mean, my family friend, we all had reason to
be very optimistic. Now. The prosecutor, right before they went out,
and that prosecutor stood before that jury for closing arguments,
told him to ignore that DNA disregard at day and
he said that DNA is easier to explain. She's a
(24:59):
way atress, she's a bartender, she handles glasses all day long.
That was just transferred there by accident from somebody else.
He said, we know from the bike mark who did this,
and you're response will see that justice has done for
the victims family. And this is his best prosecutor tone, kindness, consoling,
trust me voice that he's telling this jury that right
before they go out to deliberate. And the jury goes
(25:21):
out after all that time and come back and find
me guilty again. Everything just froze for me. I see
the jurors wiping tears out of their eyes, their head down,
they don't want to look at me. My attorney's hanging
on my shoulder, saying, I can't believe this. Why don't
they see the truth? Don't worry. I'm with you to
the end. And I look over the prosecution side and
they're all jumping up and down and celebrating like the
one the big ball game. And I could think, is
(25:42):
whobe stop rewind us though this can't be. Is no,
It's not possible. But that lasted just seconds because I
was brought right back to the reality because I heard
the most horrible scream, this moan and wailing from my
mom and sister not five feet behind me. To turn
around and see the look in their eye, the tears
holding their face, and I'd say, Mom, don't cry, aby,
my little sister, Aby, It'll be all right. Don't worry.
I'll be okay. You couldn't believe this, what happened? How
(26:05):
could this be? It's not possible. But there I was
felt guilty again Jesus, So they bought that nonsense about
the transfer saliva from glassware. But luckily the judge had
his doubts. And when it comes to the Aggravation and
Mitigation hearing for your sentencing, your attorney, Chris Plored, spent
(26:26):
two hours demonstrating how all of the pieces of evidence
pointed to somebody else, how police were able to get
footprints at the scene of the crime and were able
to match them to actual shoes size nine and a half. Converse,
but you wear a size eleven, right, That bigger prints
and palm prints found in the bathroom didn't match you,
That hair found on the victim's body, that salive ry
(26:47):
DNA didn't match you. And all of this made such
an impression on the judge, Superior Court Judge James McDougall,
that he said, quote the court is left with a
residual or lingering doubt about the clear identity of the killer.
This is one of those cases that will haunt me
for the rest of my life, wondering whether I have
done the right thing. End quote. Wow, I mean he
(27:12):
still had to sentence you, but he was definitely not
convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. And yeah, he sends me
for the murg and then he went want to aggravate
kidnapping and added on twenty one more so, I was
actually facing forty six years in prison before I'd ever
had an opportunity to get out. It was a death sentence.
I'd had to be eighty one years old to ever
(27:33):
have my first shot at release. You don't live to
be eighty one in our prisons. Very few people do,
even on the outside of the life expectancies less than that.
So now you're back to prison. And while it's not
death row this time, as you said, it's still really
a living death sentence. I mean, did you find a
way to maintain hope at this point? Years go by,
(27:55):
my appeals are turned down and said, no, this is
a fair trial. There's nothing wrong with this trial yet.
But I'm thinking, man, I'm gonna iron here. My family
is still doing news. Letterday figured we gotta find out
who did this is the only way we can get
him out here. My cousin, Jim Ricks in California's working
strenuously to find hiring people to investigate doing different things,
and nothing's really panted out. And then in two thousand
and one, Arizona State legislatures passed a new law allowing
(28:17):
for post conviction relief DNA testing. Most states, you're only
allowed a small window after your conviction to bring up
new evidence. If you didn't bring it up a trial,
it's very hard to ever bring it up again. But
they recognized that DNA was too critical to definitive, too
important to just ignore on a time restraint, and so
they passed the new law allowing for post conviction relief
on DNA material provided was previously on tested that would
(28:40):
have direct bearing on guild or innocence, and that it
was properly maintained. And I have to say God, bless you,
thank you for Finish police department, because they kept the
clothing in Kim's case, she had been stabbed with a
big butcher knife from the kitchen through her clothing, which
was then cut off with that butcher knife and thrown
in the corner. She had been stabbed so forcibly with
this butcher knife that had actually bent the blade, and
(29:01):
my experts alve surmising there was a good chance to
person willing that knife may have cut themselves, And so
we were able to get a look at those clothing
that they had kept preserved and stored and my journey
was able to see that there was blood on her
pants on her underwear. Meanwhile, I was visited by a
man named Alan Simpson and investigator Tom Street wanted to
know if I would like them to represent me. I'm like,
(29:21):
I have no money. No, no, that's not what we're
talking about. We want to represent you in this case
and have this post conviction with the DNA testing done,
so I can't pay you anything. For about five minutes,
I can, I can't pay you. They've only got to
the point. That's not what it mattered to them. They
wanted to represent me. They believe in my innocence, and
they went in petition to courts under that new law
to have DNA testing done on that pants and underwear
that they had found some type of a staining. That
(29:44):
testing was now being done and started in October. We
were told it would take sixty eight weeks. October went
by November, went by December, went by January, went by,
still no results. I'm waiting. I'm anxious. Ended up. It
turned out that they actually had results back when it
came back with a match to a another man that
was currently serving at ten year since for sexual assaulting
a child. It came back three or four times the
(30:05):
prosecution to have the rerun and rerun it and rerun it.
And it's important that we mentioned that this man who
the DANNA actually matched was a guy named Kenneth Phillips, right,
And as you said, this was a guy who was
at that time incarcerated for sexually assaulting and choking a
seven year old girl. It's unreal and at the time
of the murder, he was not only on probation for
(30:26):
breaking into a neighboring woman's apartment and choking her while
threatening to kill her, but he was also living just
six hundred yards away from the CBS lounge where the
victim was killed. So it's horrible to think that this
horrendous ordeal that you went through, and the one suffered
by that poor little child, could have been avoided entirely.
(30:51):
Unfortunately that was not the case, and it took all
of those years later and these critical DNA test results.
Vally was leaked at that DNA results were back and
then had matched another person. Things happened very quickly. Then
on April eight, I was called over to the counselor's office.
He said, no, your turneys on the phone, and I
got the phone and it was Alan. He said, Ray,
(31:12):
how are you doing today? I said, fine, just in
their day in paradise. He laughed. He said, what do
you want to want to eat? I said, well, what
are you talking about? It? Whenever in the child He goes, no, no, no,
what do you wanted? Steak, seafood e, a good food
of beer? What would you like? Ray? I said, Alan,
what the devil are you talking about? He said, I
just got off the phone with the prosecutor's office. They
just got back from the judges chambers. They're cutting the paperwork.
You're coming home the day and I just what did
(31:35):
you say? He said, roll up, Ray, it's all over.
You're coming home. And I looked at the counselor and
I gave him the phone and he had hung it up,
and well, his phone rang right away and he picked yes, sir, right,
he's right here. Yes, his eyes are getting big, Yes, sir,
I'll have a done. Yes, absolutely, I'll take care of it.
Said that was the ward. He said, you need to
come back and roll your stuff up. You're being released,
(31:55):
Mr Crone. I walked out of that president about three
hours later, look at were my shoulder and wonder what
the devil are they up to this time? Because they
never accepted by innocence, they never belied what I said.
And now just like that one day and back in
December thirty one, it was when I woke up at
my house and that evening I went to sleep in
the jail. So that morning I woke up in a
prison cell and went home to sleep. But I was
(32:17):
released and my attorney, Chris Plord came from over in California.
He picked me up and drove me off that day
to escort me off to start my life all over
again at the age of forty, after ten years, three months,
and eight days, to reunite with my family and friends,
with the distinction of being the one another person in
America to have been convicted of a capital murder since
to death and later to be free, to be exonerated,
(32:38):
to be proven innocent. Wow. You know, it's really such
an inspiring story with a lot of villains, but you know,
when you think about it, there are even more heroes
than villains, Like you're a pallet attorney Chris Plored. You know,
hearing his name reminds me of a story I heard
about a sting that was done to expose the notorious
bite Mark Charlotte and Michael West at Mississippi. And in
(33:01):
that sting, Michael West was given a set of dental
molds that he was told belonged to a suspect in
some crime or other. But it turned out that the
dental molds we're actually the ones belonging to the investigator
who was part of this sting. And of course, this
freaking numb nuts West identifies the dental molds as those
(33:22):
belonging to the culprit in this fake case, thereby exposing
himself as just one of many frauds in this field.
It was my cousin's dentition that was sent to Dr
West out there in Mississippi with using the picture that
was the bike mark on the breast is saying that
it was actually a child abuse case and could he
be of any help whether or not this was a suspect,
(33:43):
And could you identify that West West identified my cousin's
teeth is making the mark that I was convicted of making.
Wait wait what it was my cousin's teeth Jim Rick's teeth.
That's amazing, And oh man, I mean, speaking of frauds,
what about Ray Rosen, expert in New York case? Was
he ever exposed? What ended up happened? It turned out
(34:04):
that Ray Rosen was I almost say outcast, but he
was certainly chastised by the rest of the people in
his profession and knew they all could point quick fingers
at where he's wrong, saying, why are you're doing this?
You know you're wrong. And he actually resigned from the
dental school after my release. I couldn't sue him because
he was protected under immunity from the prosecutor, but he
did resign his post at the dental school. He also
(34:25):
lost his re election as senator. But yeah, Ray Rosen
held on to the end when all the other experts
said you're wrong, why you're doing this? And we actually
had him on tape for the lawsuit if we could
have went after saying I'm just in too deep to
back out now. So what kind of system do we
have that allows people like that to get paid exorbitant
amount of money to testify to something that that they
weren't even sure of, but they're in too deep to
(34:46):
back up and admit they were wrong. Walking out that
gate that day, being number one hundred. There was notoriety
or one hundred was a special number. There was a
number events that went on around the country for that moustone,
(35:08):
and there was the media outside my gate, just want
to talk to me, see what it is like and
what are you gonna do now? How does it feel?
And I talked about how my family and friends had
stood by, how I read the Bible front to back
three and a half times during those ten years, and
step with it under my pillow and reported back and
raised his hand. He said, well, Mr Crone, given your
faith in God, how do you justify him leaving you
in prison for ten years? So? I thought, what how
(35:30):
do I justify God leaving me in prison for ten years?
How do you answer a deep soul surging question like that.
I mean, the prison is right behind me. I've been
out five minutes, and I'm dumbfounded. I'm frozen under. And
then all of a suddenly something shot in my head.
I said, well, you know, maybe it's not about those
ten years I spent prison. Maybe it's about what I
have to do the next ten years. I took three
weeks to go back before a judge, at which point
(35:51):
the judge ordered a new trial, and that's when the
prosecution stepped forward and said they were dropping charges with prejudice,
meaning that could never be tried again. And at that
point said Mr cron, you're free to go. Good luck
that time to think maybe there was a reason that
somebody like me had to go through this, because again,
if they can put me on death throw, anybody is
acceptable almost to that. And and so I shared my
(36:11):
story in my background and at the time, as sister
Helen was fighting her own war so to speak against
the death penny, she had an idea about what better
way to talk about the death penalty and how wrong
it is and to have somebody that was innocently convicted
of it. And I was asked if I would come
on board to share my story. She was out of
New Orleans at a time at last probably good six
months almost a year, and as anything funny gets difficult
(36:33):
to have and it was fairally folded up. Years later,
a man, Kurt Rosenberg, out of Philadelphia had contact her
sister Helen and said, I'd like to resurrect witness innocence
with your blessings, with your approval, and she said yes absolutely.
He had contacted another man he knew there in Philadelphia.
That was grant writer Terry Rumsey. And then I was
contacted to resurrect Witness Innocence and between the three I
(36:56):
was then we ended up drawing up a nonprofit organization
US to five or one three c. We got our
LLLC and we started Witness Citizens and I believe that
was around two thousand and five, somewhere in there. And
since then we've grown it now to a staff of
five or six at least paid staff, over thirty some
members that are active. But we share our stories around
the country. We've spoken all the states that have at
(37:17):
least the death pilling. Our people have come and shared
their stories, both men and women who like me, were
wrong to convicted, who walked out, walk on death throw
who were facing possible execution, and later, by the grace
of God and good fortune and the hard work of others,
including Innocence projects and justice projects around the country, that
we're able to get our freedom and now use our
(37:38):
voice to say what is wrong and how we can
abolish the death puty and fix certain other aspects of
our justice is um that have continued to malfunction and
result in wrongful convictions, of innocent people. Amen to that,
and I hope people will go to the website, of course,
it's Witnessed to Innocence dot org. Now we have a
tradition here at Lawful Conviction. It's called closing our aments
(38:00):
and it works very simply. Again, I thank you Ray
for being such a great leader and just an inspiring
guy for so many of us, a hero for so
many of us, including myself, and for being here on
the show. And then what happens now is I turned
my microphone off, kicked back in my chair, leave my
headphones on, and just listen as you share with our
(38:22):
audience anything else you may want to say. The microphone
is yours, Ray Crowne. Closing arguments. Thank you for that opportunity. Actually,
and I'd like to share two things. Twice of those trials,
Kim's mom, a wonderful lady, bath with adamants and anger,
denounced me and victims impact statements, and rightfully so, she
thought I killed her daughter. But that day came when
(38:42):
I had to go before that judge, as I said,
for that new trial, and the charges were dropping. The
judge bank again with Mr Crone, You're free to go.
I noticed Kim's mom, and the crowd is mostly all
my friends and family members. But she had come walking
up a frail lady. Now after almost ten years or so,
she'd been through this, come up walking on a cane, said,
almost in tears to Mr Crone, I'm so sorry for
(39:03):
what happened to you. I know what it's like to
lose a loved one. I lost my daughter, your mom
lost you for ten years. She said, Please forgive me.
I just believe what they told me. And I said, ma'am,
your apologies certainly accepted. It's not necessary. I can understand
your anger at me and thinking I'd killed your daughter.
I did not kill your daughter. I thank you for
coming up to me, I said, And now is my
(39:23):
first opportunity to actually offer you my condolences. I only
knew your lovely daughter for a few months, but she
seemed like a very nice and special person. But there
it was a system. Wasn't just doing it to my
famous system had done it to her family now too.
She was at that point was actually looking at the
possibility happened to go back to trial again. See all
the brutal pictures at the prosecutional show of her daughter
again and had to sit through that testimony. They were
(39:45):
doing it to her too, and she said, I just
believe they told me. And I wish some of the
good fortune that I've had in my case could be
blessed on all those other ones, those moms and those daughters,
those sisters, those wives that are fighting for their husband,
their loved one right now, who totally believe in their innocence.
So I just want those folks that might be listening
that are struggling with their own case right now, to
(40:06):
keep that faith alive, to keep that over and know
that people do care about you. While we might not
know you personally, we know of your hardships, we know
of the struggles, and we have people like you is
putting this on the air, doing podcasts and showing the errors,
mistakes and fighting for that justice system that we could
all be proud of and trust. Thank you for listening
(40:34):
to Wrongful Conviction. Please support your local innocence organizations and
go to the links in our bio to see how
you can help. I'd like to thank our production team
Connor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Clyburne, and Kevin Wardis. The
music on this show, as always is by three time
OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us
(40:54):
on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Twitter at wrong Conviction,
and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction is
a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with
Signal Company Number one h
On December, the body of a thirty six year old
bartender was found nude in the men's restroom of her
bar in Phoenix, Arizona. She had been assaulted and fatally stabbed.
No seaman was found, however, what appeared to be bite
marks were on her neck and breast, along with saliva.
With DNA testing still in its infancy, pyrology tests could
(00:24):
only show that both the blood and saliva at the
scene matched the victim's blood type. One witness implied that
the victim may have been dating a thirty four year
old bar regular named Ray Crone, who the victim allegedly
had mentioned was supposed to help her close up that night,
but since Ray had been at home with his roommate
at the time of the crime, he had nothing to hide,
fully cooperating with investigators and eventually giving a blood sample
(00:47):
and an impression of his teeth. With the limitations of
the prology in this case, the notorious junk science of
bite mark analysis became the sole evidence against Ray to judge.
His denial of a continuance for the defense to prayer
to refute this evidence made a path for a second trial,
but not before Ray was convicted and sentenced to death.
At the second trial, with the salivary DNA evidence excluding Ray,
(01:11):
he was still reconvicted, but this time the judge sentenced
rate of life while voicing his obvious doubts. In two
thousand two, further DNA testing both excluded Ray as well
as identified a convicted child molester named Kenneth Phillips as
the actual killer. Within days, Ray Crone became the former
death row inmate freed based on actual innocence since capital
(01:34):
punishment was reinstated in n This this wrongful conviction, Welcome
back to ronful conviction. Today's episode will rock your world.
(01:56):
And I say that with such a high degree of
confidence because story this man, Ray Crone, was the one
d exonoree from death row in the United States, and
his case is so troubling because, on top of all
the other terrible things, race case relied solely on the
junkiest of junk sciences, which is bite mark evidence that
(02:18):
was it nothing else. And furthermore, as happens too often
in too many of the cases that we cover, the
actual perpetrator went on to commit an unspeakable crime after
Ray was targeted. For reasons that we'll get into later
which are inexplicable, but they're real. So without further Ado,
(02:39):
Ray Crone, welcome to wrongful conviction. Well, thank you, I'm
glad to be here. And Ray, your case happened in
Maricopa County, Arizona, which has a notorious past of prosecutorial misconduct.
In fact, when referring to some more recent instances, and
a c l U article said, and this is a quote,
it is indicative of a decade long culture of misconduct
(03:01):
that flows from the top down, one that prioritizes winning
convictions over pursuing fairness and executing justice. End quote. And
to be fair, in Americopa, that quote could be applied
to uh countless prosecutors offices all over the country. But
in your case, the prosecutor was Noel Levy, who sent
at least two innocent people to death throw that we
(03:23):
know of, right, The first was Deborah Milky. Back in
Levy hid the lead detective's long history of lying under oath,
and that was exposed in two thousand fifteen, which allowed
Debora Milky to finally clear her name. And then, of
course you but before all of this insanity, can you
take us back a bit? What was your life like
growing up. Well, I was actually born and raised with
(03:46):
a small agricultural town in southern Pennsylvania. I went to
the same high school and my grandparents went to the
same church my great grandparents went to. I was involved
at church. I was on the choir, also played Little
League baseball, Peewee football. Is involve Alton sports. And I
grew up growing vegetables and hunting and fishing and the
typical things that small town country boys do. And graduated
(04:08):
nineteen seventy four and I entered in the U. S.
Air Force, so I signed it for six years active duty.
Was stationed places like Texas, Mississippi, then Georgia, Maine, and
then the last was Phoenix, Arizona. My six years were up.
I got out of there A few years later. I
got a job of the post office and and life
was really pretty good again. I played a lot of sports,
and that's really where my problem arose because of the
(04:29):
one bar that I played volleyball, four that I had
shot darts at a few times became a scene of
a murder right and this particular crime occurred on December
where the body of a thirty six year old woman
was found nude in the men's restaurant of the CBS
Lounge in Phoenix, Arizona. The bar owner had found the
body of the previous night's bartender and she had been
(04:52):
brutally assaulted and stabbed at death. Now this remember this
was back in the early nineties, right, so DNA testing
was still in its infancy, right it was. It was
a new thing, so they only had prology to work with,
and at the time, it seemed like there was very
little physical evidence left behind. There was no semen, right,
and the blood and saliva at the scene all matched
(05:15):
the victim's blood type. There were, though, um, what appeared
to be human bite marks on the victim's neck and breast. So,
which is We've talked about that before. How notorious they're reliable,
that is, but so ray from these facts. How did
they even come to suspect and ultimately target you. Yeah,
she was. She was found by the owner and he
came in on that Sunday morning to put up his bar,
(05:37):
found the front door unlocked, was concerned why his night
manager hadn't taken care of secured and heone made his
way to the cash reader to a safe both row
and on secured the money was still in there. As
he made his way around the bar, he found her
body in the men's bathroom, and of course the police
were called in and they initiated an investigation on the
sumption had to be somebody that knew her. No evidence
of breaking, no sign, but robbery. They talked to some
(05:58):
of the co workers, one of a mentioned my name
as a potential boyfriend. I did not dat her. She
was not my girlfriend. I knew her from the bar.
You treat bartenders and then waitresses kindly in any profession
if you're going to be attending that place of business,
and that's all it was. But it was about one
o'clock on that sudden the end I heard my dog
was outside. He started barking. Two men in suits had
(06:19):
pulled in front of my neighbor's house and we're getting
out of their car. And by the time I went
outside to let my dog and they were walking up
my driveway and I stepped out and it said, excuse me,
can I help you? The one man said, are you
Ray Crona. I said, well, yes I am. What can
I do for you? And he said, you know, and
I thought his say said I don't think I know
anybody named, and he exchanged glances with the man next
to him, look like he said, you don't know from
(06:40):
the CBS lounge. I said, well, wait a minute. I
played volleyball there, I shoot darts there. Sometimes there's a
girl their names. I said, I don't know her last name,
and he kind of looked at me. So he says,
you don't know her last name? Your boyfriend, aren't you.
I kind of said no, I'm not her boyfriend. What's
going on here? He said, well, you're dating your aren't you.
I said, no, I'm not dating. What is this about?
And at that point, he opened up his jacket, pulled
(07:00):
has badge, identified himself as homicide detective and informed me
of her death. Said he was there to ask me
a few questions. Now I'm stunned. I've been going to
that bar about two months. Here's somebody I knew was
a victim of a homicide, and the police are at
my house to ask me questions. The first thing I said,
I was sure, come on inside, and he said no,
we really need to do this downtown. And so I
was interrogated for the next three hours about how long
(07:21):
we've been dating, where did I take her on dates
when every time she's been to my house all of them,
I told him, we're negative. You know, she never been
to my house. I didn't date her. I would see
her at the bar. I was at a Christmas party
with a number of people from the bar at one
point with her and that was it. At one point
they took my sneakers out. Another point they took mug shots.
They had me take my shirt off, took pictures of
upper torso, they took fingerprints. Another party, he had like
(07:43):
a white ster foam cups had a tied two pieces
together where I actually been into that and I cooperated.
I didn't know anything about her death. I didn't know
her that well. I was at home that night. I
have a roommate that knows I was home that night,
and after about three hours it was over and I
thought that was the induct But then the next day,
which was a Monday, I went to the post office,
delivered my mail, got home that day and there he
(08:04):
was waiting. Detective Gregory said, I need to eliminate user suspect.
I don't think you've been completely truthful. You want to cooperate,
don't you? Mr Crone And I said, sure, what is
it you need me to do? And he said, I
need you to come downtown again again. I volunteered to
go towntown this time. When I got down there in
a little interrogation room, right away, he pulled out a
piece of paper said, oh, yeah, by the way, I
have a affidavit here your request for for evidence, and
(08:27):
that it said that you were going to take a
blood sample or hair sample to cast in my teeth.
Now I'm a little upset. Now I'm concerned, like what's
going on here? I was signed by a judge said
I was required to give these samples, and it said
they had three hours to do it. So I cooperated
when he took blood out of both arms. I'm not
sure why that was necessary. I cooperated when he took
hair samples, and then I was taking next door in
(08:47):
a bigger room where there was a dentist and a
dentist chair set up, at which point they sat me
into chair, put this goup, and he took two casts
in my upper teeth to cast my lower teeth, And
for about the next two and a half hours was
nothing but taking pictures in question me about my dentition history.
When I was eighteen years old. I was a passenger
and a head on collision. I woke up with a
broken jaw, mouth wear and shut. Six weeks went by.
(09:09):
The bottom jaw didn't line up at the top. They
had a rebreak and wear and shut again for another
six weeks. I had some teeth and it eventually had died.
I had some teeth issues, root canals, if some bridge work,
some different things that went on with the front teeth
in my mouth and foundly when that was over, I
went next door to that little interrogation room at Wedgpoint
to detective banged his desk with his big old book
and said, look, it's time to come. Please, time to
(09:30):
tell the truth. I know you didn't once you just
confess that we can all go home. Well, by now
I was pretty angry. I was pretty upset with what
was going on way I was being treated. I was
almost thirty five years old. I'm not a little child.
I spoke up to him. I told him what I
thought of him, when I thought the investigation the police department,
Why you waste my time go find a person that
did this? And by the way, your three hours were up,
I mean I was hot and he looked at me,
(09:52):
looked at his watch, he looked back up. He said, look,
Mr Crown, I'm not gonna argue with you. There's other
ways to handle this. He took me home in fifteen
minute ride, never said a word to him again. I
thought that was the end of it, but I found
out what he meant by other ways to handle this
The next day, December thirty first, was just about four o'clock.
I pulled into my driveway, just stepped out of my car,
which point, all of a sudden, they heard a speak
(10:12):
or go off, freeze, don't move your underrest or. Van
load of police officers came pulling up. Black and whites
came pulling up. The van doors opened up with armed
officers in full riot gear, threw me on the ground
and rested me for murder, kidnapping, and sexual assault. Jesus Christ,
So there you are spending New Year's Eve in a
jail cell, and from what I understand, you stayed right
(10:34):
there until trial. But you had your roommate right who
had been home with you that night, so it should
have seemed like you could clear this up pretty easily.
And from what I understand, you had a public defender
did they share the same optimism. One day I got
called out to a legal visit. I've probably been in
there for a good month or two, and it's just
(10:54):
like you see on TV with a separate area where
one picks a phone and you talked through clear glass.
And I was in there in a lady came inside
a briefcase down, picked up the phone and identified herself
as representing the Public Defender's office, and she said, you've
been charged with murder, kidnapping, its sexual assault. You can
expect to be found guilty, but we'll fight it on appeal.
And I went crazy, What do you mean if he
found getting had not do his own? But I just
(11:15):
started going off, ranting and raven and she got the
phone held away from her ear, waiting for me to
calm down. And she got back in that phone and
she said, listen, Mr Crone, let me tell you something.
I don't take that tone of voice from the judge.
I don't take it from the prosecutor, and I'm certainly
not going to take it from you. Hung up the phone,
picked up a briefcase and was going and I thought,
this is incredible, what what what is the system? I
(11:35):
believed and what the country. I believe that things I
stood for and was talking, you know, raised to believe. Anyway,
I got a letter about a week or two later
for the Public Defender's office that stated that they were
being removed from my case. They cited a conflict interests
at the next most likely suspect was the victim's ex husband.
They had a fifteen year old daughter together, and he
did a sleepover for her birthday and did something inappropriate
(11:58):
with one of her little girlfriends, and we arrested rightfully.
So and they were representing him, and I was told
that I would beginning a court of pointed attorney. I thought,
oh good, I'm gonna get a private attorney. Now, somebody's
gonna be appointed to representate. Somebody will do the job.
But unfortunately, the day I went before the judge to
get a courter pointed attorney, it was a man had
never done a death penalty case. And at the point
where the judge appointed him to me, he was granted
(12:20):
five thousand dollars to defend me, to represent me in
a capital murder case. Yeah, and of course the state
has unlimited resources to do what they want to do. Heck,
you can't even get a divorce for five thousand dollars. Yeah,
don't don't, I know it, believe me. But and they're
giving really just enough to create the impression that they're
(12:40):
enabling you to mount some sort of a defense, but
not enough realistically for anybody to amount a real defense.
So seven months after the murder, you're on trial. This
was a three and a half day trial. The prosecution
was pretty much all three days. And that's why I
found out why they had me biden that stereopham that
first day, why they took those casts my teeth the
(13:01):
second day, because they had a bite mark expert testify,
a Ray Rosen out of Nevada, very impressive, well spoken man.
He was a dean of the UNLB Dental School. He
was a state center out of Las Vegas. He was
the elder in the Mormon Church. Very powerful speaker, very convincing.
We had later found out very well paid over fifty
dollars by the Maricopa County d A's office for his testimony.
(13:23):
But his testimony was that my teeth were unique as
a result of the car accident. I was in my
teeth matched the marks in the body, and then those
marks in the body were made at the time of death,
and that definitively made me Ray crown the murder. There
really wasn't much other evidence, but I was called a
snaggertooth killer in the papers, the snaggletooth killer. So for
ten times what you got for your whole defense, that
(13:46):
fifty grand even came with a schoolyard bully nickname, right,
And what they're really paying for with a forensic ode
ontologist is their resume, pomp and circumstance, because if you
were looking for substance and bite mark analysis, well they're
just isn't any there's not a shred. I can't even
(14:06):
I can't even put into words the disdain I have
for this particular junk science. I encourage everyone to listen
to our series Rawful Conviction Junk Science. The first episode
exposes bite mark analysis for what it really is. And
let's start out by saying that one of the original
purposes of forensic odentology is identifying human remains with dental records.
(14:29):
What I mean is, for instance, like a person was
on a flight, right and the flight crashed into a
mountain side or whatever, it gets obliterated, But now you've
got a situation where you're matching a limited and known
set of bodies to corresponding dental impressions and dental histories.
So you have a full set of teeth that you're
comparing to a full set of X rays from a
(14:50):
dentist's office. But with bite mark analysis, the so called
expert pretends without taking into account that the many, many
variables of the medium on which a bite was recorded. Right,
So what I mean is, in this particular case, human
skin and tissue, so we're talking about elasticity, decomposition. I
(15:11):
could go on, but from there they act as if
they're able to match perfectly a dental mold from a
suspect to marks made on a surface that's transitioning, and
they claimed to be able to do this to the
exclusion of all others on the planet, as Ray Rosen
did in this case. So yeah, no, But as Ray mentioned,
(15:34):
they impressed the hell out of the jury with their
witnesses purported credentials, and this time tested method has tragically
been very effective at producing convictions, often with no other
evidence of any kind. So that was the state's case.
But what about your defense? Now, the second half the trial,
which was a defensive turn, which was like the last
(15:56):
half a day. I actually took the stand. I raised
my right hand, I went up there answer of my
attorney's questions, and there came the prosecutor. No LEVI got
up there right in front of me right away. So
you deny killing the victim? I said, yes, I do
you deny being the CBS down. I said, what night
you said the night you killed her? Of course, crowne
the night you brutally took her life. I just started
tearing into me. I mean everything I said was twisted around,
(16:16):
and after two or three hours was cross examination. I
come down off that way to sand I mean so disordered, confused,
almost what over sat down next to me. Next was
my roommate. My roommate was going through divorce. He had
two children. Most of his money was going to support
those children. He was staying with me for a month
or two, had been there already. He raised his right
hand testify to tell the truth there in that court
of law, and sat down and answered my attorney's questions.
(16:39):
And then here come no Lee began to cross examine him.
Stirred there in front of a minute with his arms
cross said, now you know Ray Crown a long time,
haven't you my friend? Steve said, yes, that's right, it's
been twelve years since we were near forced together. And
then the prosecutre setting Ray Crown has always been a
good friend to you. I've been there times in need,
times of trouble, looked out for you, helped you out.
In fact, he's even given you a place to live
right now, isn't he? My friends to He kind of straight?
(17:01):
And I said, yes, that's right, that's the kind of
guy where he is. And then the prosecutor lean right
over the space point to figure out and said, and
you'd lie for him, wound you and turned and walked
away and sat down. Later on a closing arguments, he
told the jury disregard with friend, a man who raises
right hand to serve the United States Air Force, a
man who raises right hand to tell his truth in
the court of law. They told that jury to disregard
his testimony because he's just there to protect me and
(17:23):
will say anything. And took the jury just three and
a half hours to come back and find me guilty
and murder and kidnapping. So now you go back for sentencing,
and you would not have seemed to be a likely
candidate to get the death penalty, especially with your background.
But in fact that's what happened. To sit there and
going through a mini trial with the call an aggravating
(17:43):
mitigating hearing, and again this is their go to big
tough guy prosecutor before a judge. It was an ex
prosecutor response for a half a dozen people in the
death row already and to sit through this the first
part of the aggravating part by the prosecution where they
have to argue why this is above and beyond the norm.
For the worst of the worst, you have to have
aggravated factors, at least one to get a death sense.
They used the bike mark said it was gratuitous violent
(18:04):
successive pain and suffering on a soft tissue, or whought
she was still alive, the pain and suffering she must
have went through. Or because they're great at covering any
possibilities and all their bases, and he said, or it
was after she was already dead. That's heinous, and the
prey that's tampering with dead body. That's just sick. And
it's all his suppositions. He don't know what happened, but
he even had a dress dummy up there showing how
(18:25):
this was hacked and this was cut, and how she
was been I mean very very powerful. And then of
course came the defense is turned to put on the mitigating. Well,
how do you mitigate something you didn't do? How do
you show remorse regret for an act you never committed.
I told me, turn, I got nothing to apologize for.
I didn't kill it. They got the wrong person. And
he said, well, we'll put your family, your friends, or
we can have them testify to your good behavior background.
(18:46):
I said, you're not putting my family, my people that
I know on that standard be cross examined by that prosecutor.
I said, no way, it's not gonna happen. And he said,
we have to tell the judge that right. Well, so
I did, and I was probably calling an own remorseful
killer a horrible monster, and was sentenced to death. This
(19:12):
episode is underwritten by A i G, a leading global
insurance company, and by Accenture, a global professional services company
with leading capabilities in digital, cloud and security. Working to
reform the criminal justice system is a key pillar of
the A i G Pro Bono Program, which provides free
legal services and other support to many nonprofit organizations. And
(19:32):
individuals most in need as part of Accenture's commitment to
racial and civil justice. Accenture's Legal Access Program provides pro
bono legal services in partnership with more than forty organizations,
bringing meaningful change to people and communities worldwide. Within a
(19:55):
week's time, I was transported by a bus straight to
the death Row in Arizona. That's just about a five
by seven center block Walt cell had still bars on
the front side where the door was. There was a
little trapped there. That's where they fed you through, put
the bail through. I can tell you I never got
to hot me on death Row, or mules sat in
the hallway, so they felt like feeding this. I got
to one sheet, one towel, one army blanket. There was
(20:18):
a subment slab that had a about a two inch
pad on it. I wrapped my sneakers in my towel.
That was my pillow, and that's where I was to
live now until they decided when I was going to
die again. My friends and family believed to me, supported me,
but I knew this cell and death Row was going
to be my home for quite a while. And I'm
gonna have to learn a survivement here and learn what
I can about the system to prepare myself for what
(20:39):
I need to know to fight it in the future
if I ever had that chance again. And you did
get that chance again because the Arizona Supreme Court overturned
your conviction on direct appeal. I mean, it's a freaking miracle, right,
And how did that miracle come to pass? Well, they
still had law library then, and so I started going
(21:01):
and reading the law books. I actually became a legal
representative to help other inmates there in prison, both on
their cases or with the disparayer issues. So I learned
a little bit about how that works most states whenever
you're sentenced to death and automatically goes direct appeal to
that state supreme court. And in my case, I have
to say, God bless my worthless attorney. He actually did
something worthwhile right before our trial was to start, and
(21:22):
he was on a Friday and trial started Monday. We
were taken into the courtroom there in the prosecution introduced
a videotape made by their bite mark expert, about forty
minutes long, about how he conclusively matched my teeth using
the latest techniques to these bite marks on her body,
very impressive, very powerful evidence, and my attorney was awake,
he was actually paying attention. He said, your honor, I've
never seen this evidence before. You can't allow this in.
(21:44):
At the last moment, the judge said, Dina, and I'm
gonna allow this in. He said, you got the weekend
to consult with this expert. And then in the burst
of brilliance, we actually said you're honor and lighted that ruling.
If you're gonna allow that evidence, and I'm gonna have
to ask for a thirty day continues. I am not
prepared for this evidence. I need thirty more days. And
as I said, the judge consistent, he was an ex
prosecutor at people on death row. He said, denied, He said,
(22:05):
we need to get this trial rolling. So just seven
months from the murder, he needed to get the trial rolling.
The Arizonas were Supreme Court reviewed the issue for what
it was. They said my attorney was well within the
rights for asked for a continuance. They said the judge
was wrong for allowing that in at the last moment.
As a defendant, you have a right to know what
Evan is going to be used against you. You have
a right to receive that in a timely manner. But
(22:26):
just because there's a mistake of technicality and air made
does not mean you walk free. There's two parts to it,
and the second part is called harmless error evaluation, and
this is where they review this piece of evidence, this emission,
this error, whether or not it would affect the verdict,
Would the jury even cared? Did this matter? And the
exact words were without this videotape, there wasn't even a
jury submissible case against Mr Crone. They recognized this was
(22:50):
about a bite mark, that this was critical evidence. The
judge was wrong, and they ordered a new trial. And
you were lucky enough to have a strong family support
system throughout your fight. What did they do to help
in the lead up to your second trial? And so
God bless him. They mortgaged their house, They cashed him
with retirement funds. There was different people that gave their
income tax returned money to my family. And I had
(23:13):
a second cousin out in California. He was reasonably well
off and he'd heard about this from his mother and
he was dumbfound was like, what kind of family come
from with a murderer on death row? And that he
was intrigued. He came to visit me on death row
and talk with me, and when he was done, he said,
something doesn't sound right here. And he became a real
champion for the fight for my innocence. And he knew
attorney out of California from talking through him. The attorney said,
(23:34):
let me take the case. We couldn't come near the
hundreds of thousands of dollars required, but he said, just
paid the expenses. I believe in raid this case is
no good. Let me take the case. And so now
we had a person very experienced attorney. When he showed
up for that trial, I mean he had books and
books about it. Stuffing he had found out that we
never knew about in our first draft, Things that they
had done with everything from even blood sampling and testing
(23:55):
and stuff that we never knew had been done. More
about footprints and fingerprints that had been found that we
never knew about. And all this stuff was coming out
at our second trial. And when that second trial's family
started in February of nineteen, it lasted over seven weeks.
Over five exhibits were introduced. We had three bite mark
experts tests for the defense alone. It was a whole
(24:17):
different scenario now, and it was starting to feel good
about the truth was coming out at this trial. Yep.
And the truth sure did come out all right. So
you had DNA testing done on the saliva from the
bite mark that identified a different contributor, confirming that it
belonged neither to you nor the victim. So I think
(24:37):
now everybody is probably on the edge of their seats
going okay, So now comes the happy ending, right you think,
I mean, my family friend, we all had reason to
be very optimistic. Now. The prosecutor, right before they went out,
and that prosecutor stood before that jury for closing arguments,
told him to ignore that DNA disregard at day and
he said that DNA is easier to explain. She's a
(24:59):
way atress, she's a bartender, she handles glasses all day long.
That was just transferred there by accident from somebody else.
He said, we know from the bike mark who did this,
and you're response will see that justice has done for
the victims family. And this is his best prosecutor tone, kindness, consoling,
trust me voice that he's telling this jury that right
before they go out to deliberate. And the jury goes
(25:21):
out after all that time and come back and find
me guilty again. Everything just froze for me. I see
the jurors wiping tears out of their eyes, their head down,
they don't want to look at me. My attorney's hanging
on my shoulder, saying, I can't believe this. Why don't
they see the truth? Don't worry. I'm with you to
the end. And I look over the prosecution side and
they're all jumping up and down and celebrating like the
one the big ball game. And I could think, is
(25:42):
whobe stop rewind us though this can't be. Is no,
It's not possible. But that lasted just seconds because I
was brought right back to the reality because I heard
the most horrible scream, this moan and wailing from my
mom and sister not five feet behind me. To turn
around and see the look in their eye, the tears
holding their face, and I'd say, Mom, don't cry, aby,
my little sister, Aby, It'll be all right. Don't worry.
I'll be okay. You couldn't believe this, what happened? How
(26:05):
could this be? It's not possible. But there I was
felt guilty again Jesus, So they bought that nonsense about
the transfer saliva from glassware. But luckily the judge had
his doubts. And when it comes to the Aggravation and
Mitigation hearing for your sentencing, your attorney, Chris Plored, spent
(26:26):
two hours demonstrating how all of the pieces of evidence
pointed to somebody else, how police were able to get
footprints at the scene of the crime and were able
to match them to actual shoes size nine and a half. Converse,
but you wear a size eleven, right, That bigger prints
and palm prints found in the bathroom didn't match you,
That hair found on the victim's body, that salive ry
(26:47):
DNA didn't match you. And all of this made such
an impression on the judge, Superior Court Judge James McDougall,
that he said, quote the court is left with a
residual or lingering doubt about the clear identity of the killer.
This is one of those cases that will haunt me
for the rest of my life, wondering whether I have
done the right thing. End quote. Wow, I mean he
(27:12):
still had to sentence you, but he was definitely not
convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. And yeah, he sends me
for the murg and then he went want to aggravate
kidnapping and added on twenty one more so, I was
actually facing forty six years in prison before I'd ever
had an opportunity to get out. It was a death sentence.
I'd had to be eighty one years old to ever
(27:33):
have my first shot at release. You don't live to
be eighty one in our prisons. Very few people do,
even on the outside of the life expectancies less than that.
So now you're back to prison. And while it's not
death row this time, as you said, it's still really
a living death sentence. I mean, did you find a
way to maintain hope at this point? Years go by,
(27:55):
my appeals are turned down and said, no, this is
a fair trial. There's nothing wrong with this trial yet.
But I'm thinking, man, I'm gonna iron here. My family
is still doing news. Letterday figured we gotta find out
who did this is the only way we can get
him out here. My cousin, Jim Ricks in California's working
strenuously to find hiring people to investigate doing different things,
and nothing's really panted out. And then in two thousand
and one, Arizona State legislatures passed a new law allowing
(28:17):
for post conviction relief DNA testing. Most states, you're only
allowed a small window after your conviction to bring up
new evidence. If you didn't bring it up a trial,
it's very hard to ever bring it up again. But
they recognized that DNA was too critical to definitive, too
important to just ignore on a time restraint, and so
they passed the new law allowing for post conviction relief
on DNA material provided was previously on tested that would
(28:40):
have direct bearing on guild or innocence, and that it
was properly maintained. And I have to say God, bless you,
thank you for Finish police department, because they kept the
clothing in Kim's case, she had been stabbed with a
big butcher knife from the kitchen through her clothing, which
was then cut off with that butcher knife and thrown
in the corner. She had been stabbed so forcibly with
this butcher knife that had actually bent the blade, and
(29:01):
my experts alve surmising there was a good chance to
person willing that knife may have cut themselves, And so
we were able to get a look at those clothing
that they had kept preserved and stored and my journey
was able to see that there was blood on her
pants on her underwear. Meanwhile, I was visited by a
man named Alan Simpson and investigator Tom Street wanted to
know if I would like them to represent me. I'm like,
(29:21):
I have no money. No, no, that's not what we're
talking about. We want to represent you in this case
and have this post conviction with the DNA testing done,
so I can't pay you anything. For about five minutes,
I can, I can't pay you. They've only got to
the point. That's not what it mattered to them. They
wanted to represent me. They believe in my innocence, and
they went in petition to courts under that new law
to have DNA testing done on that pants and underwear
that they had found some type of a staining. That
(29:44):
testing was now being done and started in October. We
were told it would take sixty eight weeks. October went
by November, went by December, went by January, went by,
still no results. I'm waiting. I'm anxious. Ended up. It
turned out that they actually had results back when it
came back with a match to a another man that
was currently serving at ten year since for sexual assaulting
a child. It came back three or four times the
(30:05):
prosecution to have the rerun and rerun it and rerun it.
And it's important that we mentioned that this man who
the DANNA actually matched was a guy named Kenneth Phillips, right,
And as you said, this was a guy who was
at that time incarcerated for sexually assaulting and choking a
seven year old girl. It's unreal and at the time
of the murder, he was not only on probation for
(30:26):
breaking into a neighboring woman's apartment and choking her while
threatening to kill her, but he was also living just
six hundred yards away from the CBS lounge where the
victim was killed. So it's horrible to think that this
horrendous ordeal that you went through, and the one suffered
by that poor little child, could have been avoided entirely.
(30:51):
Unfortunately that was not the case, and it took all
of those years later and these critical DNA test results.
Vally was leaked at that DNA results were back and
then had matched another person. Things happened very quickly. Then
on April eight, I was called over to the counselor's office.
He said, no, your turneys on the phone, and I
got the phone and it was Alan. He said, Ray,
(31:12):
how are you doing today? I said, fine, just in
their day in paradise. He laughed. He said, what do
you want to want to eat? I said, well, what
are you talking about? It? Whenever in the child He goes, no, no, no,
what do you wanted? Steak, seafood e, a good food
of beer? What would you like? Ray? I said, Alan,
what the devil are you talking about? He said, I
just got off the phone with the prosecutor's office. They
just got back from the judges chambers. They're cutting the paperwork.
You're coming home the day and I just what did
(31:35):
you say? He said, roll up, Ray, it's all over.
You're coming home. And I looked at the counselor and
I gave him the phone and he had hung it up,
and well, his phone rang right away and he picked yes, sir, right,
he's right here. Yes, his eyes are getting big, Yes, sir,
I'll have a done. Yes, absolutely, I'll take care of it.
Said that was the ward. He said, you need to
come back and roll your stuff up. You're being released,
(31:55):
Mr Crone. I walked out of that president about three
hours later, look at were my shoulder and wonder what
the devil are they up to this time? Because they
never accepted by innocence, they never belied what I said.
And now just like that one day and back in
December thirty one, it was when I woke up at
my house and that evening I went to sleep in
the jail. So that morning I woke up in a
prison cell and went home to sleep. But I was
(32:17):
released and my attorney, Chris Plord came from over in California.
He picked me up and drove me off that day
to escort me off to start my life all over
again at the age of forty, after ten years, three months,
and eight days, to reunite with my family and friends,
with the distinction of being the one another person in
America to have been convicted of a capital murder since
to death and later to be free, to be exonerated,
(32:38):
to be proven innocent. Wow. You know, it's really such
an inspiring story with a lot of villains, but you know,
when you think about it, there are even more heroes
than villains, Like you're a pallet attorney Chris Plored. You know,
hearing his name reminds me of a story I heard
about a sting that was done to expose the notorious
bite Mark Charlotte and Michael West at Mississippi. And in
(33:01):
that sting, Michael West was given a set of dental
molds that he was told belonged to a suspect in
some crime or other. But it turned out that the
dental molds we're actually the ones belonging to the investigator
who was part of this sting. And of course, this
freaking numb nuts West identifies the dental molds as those
(33:22):
belonging to the culprit in this fake case, thereby exposing
himself as just one of many frauds in this field.
It was my cousin's dentition that was sent to Dr
West out there in Mississippi with using the picture that
was the bike mark on the breast is saying that
it was actually a child abuse case and could he
be of any help whether or not this was a suspect,
(33:43):
And could you identify that West West identified my cousin's
teeth is making the mark that I was convicted of making.
Wait wait what it was my cousin's teeth Jim Rick's teeth.
That's amazing, And oh man, I mean, speaking of frauds,
what about Ray Rosen, expert in New York case? Was
he ever exposed? What ended up happened? It turned out
(34:04):
that Ray Rosen was I almost say outcast, but he
was certainly chastised by the rest of the people in
his profession and knew they all could point quick fingers
at where he's wrong, saying, why are you're doing this?
You know you're wrong. And he actually resigned from the
dental school after my release. I couldn't sue him because
he was protected under immunity from the prosecutor, but he
did resign his post at the dental school. He also
(34:25):
lost his re election as senator. But yeah, Ray Rosen
held on to the end when all the other experts
said you're wrong, why you're doing this? And we actually
had him on tape for the lawsuit if we could
have went after saying I'm just in too deep to
back out now. So what kind of system do we
have that allows people like that to get paid exorbitant
amount of money to testify to something that that they
weren't even sure of, but they're in too deep to
(34:46):
back up and admit they were wrong. Walking out that
gate that day, being number one hundred. There was notoriety
or one hundred was a special number. There was a
number events that went on around the country for that moustone,
(35:08):
and there was the media outside my gate, just want
to talk to me, see what it is like and
what are you gonna do now? How does it feel?
And I talked about how my family and friends had
stood by, how I read the Bible front to back
three and a half times during those ten years, and
step with it under my pillow and reported back and
raised his hand. He said, well, Mr Crone, given your
faith in God, how do you justify him leaving you
in prison for ten years? So? I thought, what how
(35:30):
do I justify God leaving me in prison for ten years?
How do you answer a deep soul surging question like that.
I mean, the prison is right behind me. I've been
out five minutes, and I'm dumbfounded. I'm frozen under. And
then all of a suddenly something shot in my head.
I said, well, you know, maybe it's not about those
ten years I spent prison. Maybe it's about what I
have to do the next ten years. I took three
weeks to go back before a judge, at which point
(35:51):
the judge ordered a new trial, and that's when the
prosecution stepped forward and said they were dropping charges with prejudice,
meaning that could never be tried again. And at that
point said Mr cron, you're free to go. Good luck
that time to think maybe there was a reason that
somebody like me had to go through this, because again,
if they can put me on death throw, anybody is
acceptable almost to that. And and so I shared my
(36:11):
story in my background and at the time, as sister
Helen was fighting her own war so to speak against
the death penny, she had an idea about what better
way to talk about the death penalty and how wrong
it is and to have somebody that was innocently convicted
of it. And I was asked if I would come
on board to share my story. She was out of
New Orleans at a time at last probably good six
months almost a year, and as anything funny gets difficult
(36:33):
to have and it was fairally folded up. Years later,
a man, Kurt Rosenberg, out of Philadelphia had contact her
sister Helen and said, I'd like to resurrect witness innocence
with your blessings, with your approval, and she said yes absolutely.
He had contacted another man he knew there in Philadelphia.
That was grant writer Terry Rumsey. And then I was
contacted to resurrect Witness Innocence and between the three I
(36:56):
was then we ended up drawing up a nonprofit organization
US to five or one three c. We got our
LLLC and we started Witness Citizens and I believe that
was around two thousand and five, somewhere in there. And
since then we've grown it now to a staff of
five or six at least paid staff, over thirty some
members that are active. But we share our stories around
the country. We've spoken all the states that have at
(37:17):
least the death pilling. Our people have come and shared
their stories, both men and women who like me, were
wrong to convicted, who walked out, walk on death throw
who were facing possible execution, and later, by the grace
of God and good fortune and the hard work of others,
including Innocence projects and justice projects around the country, that
we're able to get our freedom and now use our
(37:38):
voice to say what is wrong and how we can
abolish the death puty and fix certain other aspects of
our justice is um that have continued to malfunction and
result in wrongful convictions, of innocent people. Amen to that,
and I hope people will go to the website, of course,
it's Witnessed to Innocence dot org. Now we have a
tradition here at Lawful Conviction. It's called closing our aments
(38:00):
and it works very simply. Again, I thank you Ray
for being such a great leader and just an inspiring
guy for so many of us, a hero for so
many of us, including myself, and for being here on
the show. And then what happens now is I turned
my microphone off, kicked back in my chair, leave my
headphones on, and just listen as you share with our
(38:22):
audience anything else you may want to say. The microphone
is yours, Ray Crowne. Closing arguments. Thank you for that opportunity. Actually,
and I'd like to share two things. Twice of those trials,
Kim's mom, a wonderful lady, bath with adamants and anger,
denounced me and victims impact statements, and rightfully so, she
thought I killed her daughter. But that day came when
(38:42):
I had to go before that judge, as I said,
for that new trial, and the charges were dropping. The
judge bank again with Mr Crone, You're free to go.
I noticed Kim's mom, and the crowd is mostly all
my friends and family members. But she had come walking
up a frail lady. Now after almost ten years or so,
she'd been through this, come up walking on a cane, said,
almost in tears to Mr Crone, I'm so sorry for
(39:03):
what happened to you. I know what it's like to
lose a loved one. I lost my daughter, your mom
lost you for ten years. She said, Please forgive me.
I just believe what they told me. And I said, ma'am,
your apologies certainly accepted. It's not necessary. I can understand
your anger at me and thinking I'd killed your daughter.
I did not kill your daughter. I thank you for
coming up to me, I said, And now is my
(39:23):
first opportunity to actually offer you my condolences. I only
knew your lovely daughter for a few months, but she
seemed like a very nice and special person. But there
it was a system. Wasn't just doing it to my
famous system had done it to her family now too.
She was at that point was actually looking at the
possibility happened to go back to trial again. See all
the brutal pictures at the prosecutional show of her daughter
again and had to sit through that testimony. They were
(39:45):
doing it to her too, and she said, I just
believe they told me. And I wish some of the
good fortune that I've had in my case could be
blessed on all those other ones, those moms and those daughters,
those sisters, those wives that are fighting for their husband,
their loved one right now, who totally believe in their innocence.
So I just want those folks that might be listening
that are struggling with their own case right now, to
(40:06):
keep that faith alive, to keep that over and know
that people do care about you. While we might not
know you personally, we know of your hardships, we know
of the struggles, and we have people like you is
putting this on the air, doing podcasts and showing the errors,
mistakes and fighting for that justice system that we could
all be proud of and trust. Thank you for listening
(40:34):
to Wrongful Conviction. Please support your local innocence organizations and
go to the links in our bio to see how
you can help. I'd like to thank our production team
Connor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Clyburne, and Kevin Wardis. The
music on this show, as always is by three time
OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us
(40:54):
on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Twitter at wrong Conviction,
and on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Wrongful Conviction is
a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with
Signal Company Number one h
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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