April 6, 2020 • 18 mins
Laura Nirider talks with Daniel Villegas about what it was like waiting for the jury to announce its verdict, how he prepared his children for the possibility he might not be coming home, and how it feels to finally focus on the future.
If you haven't heard his full story, it's right here in the podcast Feed. Just under this bonus episode. And if you've yet to watch Daniel's exoneration video, check it out on Instagram @wrongfulconviction. It's an incredible opportunity for all of us to bear witness to freedom
To donate, learn more, or get involved, go to: http://www.law.northwestern.edu/legalclinic/wrongfulconvictions/
Wrongful Conviction: False Confessions is a production of Lava for Good™ Podcasts in association with Signal Co. No1.
We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in this show are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey guys, it's Laura and I writer. Welcome to a
special bonus episode of Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions. We've gotten
an overwhelming response to this week's story about Daniel Viegas
and to the video we posted on Instagram and Twitter
showing the moment he learned the jury's verdict, so we're
releasing a bonus episode a conversation I had with Daniel
(00:25):
when I sat down with him in Austin, Texas two
months ago. You know, after everything we've been through together,
Daniel's not just a former client, he's a friend. We
talked about what it was like waiting for the jury
to announce its verdict, how he'd prepared his children for
the possibility he might not be coming home, and how
it feels to finally focus on the future. If you
(00:50):
haven't heard his full story, it's right here in the
podcast feed, just under this bonus episode. And if you've
yet to watch Daniel's exoneration video, check it out on
Instagram at ung Full Conviction. It's an incredible opportunity for
all of us to bear witness to freedom. Daniel. I'm
(01:14):
so glad you're here with us today.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yes, I'm glad to be here too, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, So tell me what's going on for you right
now in your life. You've been out how many years?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Six years? Now? Six years?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
And tell me what you're doing with your life.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
At this point in the stage in my life, it's
you know, we're not dealing with the hecticness of trial
and all that stuff. So now I'm focusing on what
I'm going to do for the future.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
So you were acquitted about fourteen months ago, and so
you've had that time to finally move on from this case.
That's dog you your whole life exactly right. So what
have you been doing? Are you working?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yes, I'm working with Manbela Contractors. I do their deliveries
with Mimbella Contractors.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So this is John Vnbella.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, John Minbella. That helped me out too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, so you're working with John Vmbella huh all these years.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
You know, John Mimbella is like a family member. You know,
he didn't just you know, help get me free. You know,
he's always been there for me, you know, like a
backbone and a counselor. You know, he's always been someone
that I can go to, you know for anything. You know,
even if it's just a hang out.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Well, you've been a counselor yourself too. You were telling
me before we sat down that you know, you're working
at Membela construction and doing deliveries and things for them,
but you're also working with a lot of the other guys.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yes, work there.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, we do construction, so it's a lot of you know,
you're gonna have a lot of conmics and stuff there.
So a lot of these guys, you know, they got
problems and issues, and you know they look up to me.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So Membela hires people who used to be incarcerated. Yes,
a lot of folks there. And these guys, you know,
just like anybody getting out of prison, have their struggles,
you know, their situation when they get out. Stuff they
have to figure out, and they come.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
To you exactly, you know, and they come to me
and ask me, you know, for my advice.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
You know, because one of the hardest things to transition into.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
You know, what we call the free world is you know,
we have to leave everything in prison behind us.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And a lot of times a lot of people can't
do that.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Because you're so used to you know, thinking and moving
in that way. So it's hard to put that behind
you and then live basically a whole different life.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
How do you put that behind you?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I mean I don't ever like I always tell her,
but I don't think it'll ever get away from us.
It won't ever escape us, and we'll always have it.
But the good thing is that as time progresses, you know,
as we grow, it's a lot easier to deal with.
Like before you would get mad and it was so
hard for you to calm down. After a while, when
you start getting mad, you'll start catching yourself going through
the stages of going from zero to one hundred, and
(03:31):
you can stop it before it goes to one hundred?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
What do you tell yourself to stop it?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Personally? Like I always check myself. You know, it's not
that bad, you know, look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Well, and you're not dealing with it alone either, Right,
you've got John Manilla, but you've also got a wonderful family.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Oh yes, you know, like my wife too, I mean
everyone for her. I mean I don't know what I
would have done. Yeah, she was when I first came out,
you know, I was basically a forty year old with
a sixteen year old mentality. You know, got locked up
when I was a kid, so I never really grew up.
I wasn't never had a structure. I never I never
really came out and was, you know, have my own
family or anything, you know. So coming down and dinning
(04:10):
was society as an adult was very very very very hard,
you know, because there was so much I didn't know,
and it was so frustrating because everybody knows it like
second nature, and you feel like you're out of the loop.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
You feel like an alien, like you.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Got dropped into another planet.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah right, you know. So Amanda's always been there too,
like she's always all right. You got your wallet, you
got your keys, you got this.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, those basic things of life, but the stuff you
forget right when you've been locked away for so long,
exactly exactly Amanda's watching. Make sure. Hey, man, we all
need somebody like Amanda.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
In our life, exactly, trust me.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
And you have a beautiful You've got a beautiful family.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You've got kids. Yes, we have four kids.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
I have my oldest daughter who's twenty five, Priscilla, and
then my daughter who's tan Kayla that's Amanda's daughter, and
my stepdaughter, and then we have two kids together.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
One four. That's basically I know, Jude, and.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Then named after your dad.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, you're named after my dad and Amanda's brother. Yeah.
And then we have.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
The little little baby, the little rugrat. We have the
newest addition to the family. That's Emory Hope. She's the
hell Raiser.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
How old is she?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
She's going on two years old in a couple of months,
so she's almost too But that's the little hell Raiser.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Man a full house. Yeah, that's great, that's great. So,
you know, what would you tell your kids? You know,
some of them are obviously too young to talk about
what happened to you, But what do you tell your
kids who are old enough to start to think about
what happened to you? What do you tell them about
what happened to you?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
You know, I really don't try to focus so much
of what happened to me, but what they can do
now to avoid that, you know, like I always try
to tell them, you know, like you know, when they
get frusted, I'm always.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Trying to tell me, you know, it's not that bad.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
You know, you're you're you're you're getting too caught up
in this little drama going on at school.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Or whatever, and it's not that tough. You know, it's
not gonna be the end of the world. And you know,
I just try to.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Give them my perspective as far as you know, thinking
of how to deal with problems.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And stuff and issues that come into life.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
And that's mostly what I focus on, because I feel like,
you know, life is ten percent of what happens in
ninety percent how you react to that.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I don't want to so.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Much teach him about my experience as much as teach
him about how to deal with your problems now from
that experience.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So let me talk to you a little bit about
what it was like to walk out of prison six
years ago. Right, you were released on bond. It's twenty fourteen,
January twenty fourteen when you were released on bond. Yes,
And you know, when I talk to my other clients
who have come out of prison, you know, people always
have stories about the little things, the things they didn't
realize they missed until they were back out and remembered
(07:00):
things right that they'd missed for so long. What were
those things for you? Those things you didn't realize that
you've been missing.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Does smell? Yeah, you know the way the pavement of
the street smell. You know, we take that again after
a while you're walking and you know, especially people living
downtown or whatever, you know, they don't even smell the
roses no more. And that's one of the main things
that a lot of us when we come out, we
notice these smells because we've been smelling nothing but disinfected
our whole life.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
So you know, you have actual nature and you have
like pavement, you have like you know, the birds chirpping,
and then you have cars and you have like horns,
and you know, it's a whole different orchestra of music,
and so to speak, compared to prison, where it's nothing
but just a lot of yelling and screaming, it's.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
A beautiful orchestra of music. Yeah, but hard to get
used to it first too.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
It's not so much as hard to get used to it,
just it's hard to concentrate on something now, is because
you're so focused on hearing every sound and everything.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
That's amazing, amazing, every sound from the orchestra of life.
I think that's gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
I want to take you back from moment too, if
I can, that moment fourteen months ago when you were acquitted.
It was your third trial right over the course of
twenty plus years, and this was the moment of your vindication. Yes,
it's an incredible moment for us all to listen to.
(08:23):
When you were sitting there in that courtroom. You know,
Amanda and your family members are right behind you, all
your supporters are right behind you. You were sitting there through
lawyers and the judge read out the verdict. Can you
tell me what it was like waiting for that verdict?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
That was excruciating pain that I would not wish on anybody.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
That was terrible.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
But you know when I was going through that, you know,
when they I was in the back of the side
of the courthouse and I was like having an intimate
moment with my daughter, my youngest daughter. How old was
she she was at that time, she was about six
months And you know, I really didn't think, you know,
I know she can't understand what I'm saying. So I
was just praying that you know, that parmorama experience happens
(09:05):
during death.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
It's true, where you live, your whole life flashes before you.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
You sort of get out of your body and see
yourself exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So I figured, you know, if if anything.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
You know, I'll talk to her and she will remember
that on that day when she you know, because I couldn't,
you know, there's no other way.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
She was too young.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
So I was just explaining to her, you know, I
was just telling her, you know, baby, you know, I'm
not guilty.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I'm just saying who I am.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
People are going to tell you stuff about me, and
I'm just like explaining things for that, you know that
I'm hoping one day she'll kind of remember that, she'll
come back to that.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And uh. I did this to each of my kids.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I set each of them down by themselves and I
would explain things to them, and that was my last one.
And right when I was doing that, they tell us
that the verdict is on. We got the verdict, and
I'm like, holy crap. So we were running to the courthouse.
And then the thoughts, like I said, since I was
having that intimate moment with her, you know, was one
of the thoughts that came into my mind that were
(10:01):
more prevailing than anyone. I was thinking to myself that
did we make the right decision, you know, not accepting
the offer please? And I was like, I know in
my heart, you know that we made the right decision.
And I know Amanda stands by me on that, but
I was saying, did we actually do.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
It the right decision for our kids?
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
You know, even if you know you're right, you know,
are we making the right decisions because this is my
case right.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Not to see you?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
And if you look at the video, you'll see me
and my Lord's talking and you see me shaking my hand.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
That's what I was telling them.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
You know, I'm pleased, man, tell me that we made
the right decision here, that we do made the right decision,
not only on me, but did we make the right
decision for my children?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
You know? Did we fight this on pride or did
we fight this for justice?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
You know, you you second guess everything at that moment,
you know, and then you second guess your you know
everything that charal's coming through your head and you're like, man,
we should have done this, We should have done that.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
You know that was coming to your thoughts, and that's
killing you too.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
So you got all these there's like a million thoughts
just blading down on you. And then you just want
to judge your hear up and tell you not guilty
and guilty and you wait for the jury to come
in here in.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Order, and you're just sitting there dying, I mean excruciated.
So you're sitting there in that moment, waiting for the
verdicts to come back, and you're thinking back on the offer,
play on that decision which which Amanda guided you through
which Jason Baldwin from the West movest Iie guided you
throw yes, and then the verdict comes.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Back yes, not guilty exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
And it was not before he said not guilty. I
already knew when he said he said it was a
form B, right, and I already had had the piece
of paper, and it was like Form A was guilty,
Form B was not guilty, you know. So when I
had the paper in front of me and then I
heard form B, I right away looked at that piece
of paper.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I said, oh shit, it's not guilty.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
But it was just a couple of seconds like you're saying,
you know, and that's what I just it was like
I was, like I said, I was so tense. I
mean that time period, that whole year was probably the
worst year of my life. And uh, I was so
tense that when that verdict not guilty happened. It was
just like, you know, like a ball full of rubber bands.
It was like you just take one and it all
just falls apart. Yeah, and that's exactly what happened, you know,
(12:09):
that not guilty just pulled that one string and everything
fell apart and I just hit the ground. I hit
the table with my head. It didn't even hurt here
on the next day and I was just so, you know,
out of there.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, And you got out of there, didn't you right
away as soon as you could never to return.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
We left too fast out of there, Like that's what
I was telling, me and a man that we had
all this little speech that we're going to do afterwards,
you know, to the news or whatever. And when that
man said the judge said, you know what, not guilty,
you are free to go there. You are no longer
under any conditions of this court anymore. Yeah, that whole
speech that we had, it was up my head. I
totally forgot. I ran out that courtroom. I was like,
(12:50):
I grabbed the man. I was like, let's go and the.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Cameras, get the news, get me out of here. But
you are actually going to be in a courtroom again.
I think in a couple of days. Right, what's your
plan for when you're here in Austin.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I'm here in Austin.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I want to go to the Capitol and I want
to go see the Court's of Criminal Appeals and I
would love to see if I can talk to one
of the judges.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So you want to go to the Texas Court of
Criminal Appeals. This is the court that affirmed your grant
of a new trial, that affirmed your conviction being thrown out. Yeah,
and you want to just go in that building. Tell
me why.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
One of the main things I want to go because
when we're going to courts criminal appial, they're telling us
about the judges and they were saying that we have
to get a majority rule, and they were saying three
of the judges were not going to go for they
never go for the inmate. And they were like, so
don't even worry about those three. We know we're not
going to get them. But at the end of the day,
you know, we had an anonymous vote. Even the judges
that they said we're not going to vote voted, and
(13:40):
that was like the first time it happened in Texas history.
So that's what I was like, you know, maybe I
won't be able to talk to judge, but I would
love to, you know, ask you know what made this
case so different that all you are in agreement with it?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
What was so special that shot to your faith? You know?
What was it?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Do you think it will still be worthwhile to go
there even if you can't talk to the judges, just
to be in the building. What would it be just
to be in the building, just.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
To be in the building, if they would let me
walk into the room where they actually make the decisions. I
would you like to just sit there, you know, and
just think this is where they made the decisions on
letting you go.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, you know, that would be awesome.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
This is where it all turned around.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Yeah, this is the place I used to curse that
every every Wednesday, waiting for the answer, Daniel.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I just want to ask you, you know, what is
what's your what are your hopes for the future.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
That I'm not totally certain about that right now, I
haven't figured out where my direction is actually going to go.
Because one thing I've realized about life is that I
have my plans, but the universe has its own plans,
and somehow or another, I always end up doing what the
universe wants me to do rather than what I want
to do. So I'm trying to figure out my nick
(14:59):
and right now, you know, meanwhile, I'm just trying to
do as much I can to help, you know, other people,
to figure out what my true calling is going to be.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Well, one day at a time. It's pretty good right now.
Thank you so much for sitting down with me. It's
been an absolute pleasure. Daniel Viegas than man, exonerated man,
congrat Thank you.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Oh and also like thank you for helping me on
my appeal. I mean, Laura, she's on my case. It's
just so it's so bad ass. It's so awesome to
have all you guys with us.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
It's our pleasure.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
But you know, you guys never get the thanks, you know,
and that's one thing that you know, I want to
really focus, you know, I want to really you know,
put out there two about our lawyers or you know
that that help us, because you got to understand that normally,
with a client and the lawyer, situation goes once the
court is over, you're not going to see that lawyer
hardly ever again, you know, and in this situation where
(15:50):
around for conviction, we are so close to our lawyer,
We're so close to you guys.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
You guys become our family.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
You know that even when we come out, you don't
give up on It's not like, Okay, well we got
your free buy, I have a good life.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You guys are they're helping us out. You guys are still.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
There making sure that you know we're we're being entered
back into society but successfully. Yeah, you know, and that
you guys need to get them things for that, because
I don't feel like you guys get the things for that.
I don't feel like the networks get the things for
the innocent networks that are all these different organizations that
work so hard to get us free. Because when we
get free, the game's not over yet. Well it's still
(16:24):
a whole new game now. Now the game is how
do we get this man who's been locked up for
twenty years in prison that doesn't know nothing else but
how to be an amn? How do we get him
to become a productive member in society.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And that's what you guys do too.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Well, that's what you've done. So congratulations on that, all right,
believe us?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I love that great.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Thanks so much, Daniel, thank you, Thanks for listening to
the special bonus episode of Wrongful Conviction False Confessions. You
can listen to Daniel's story right here in this feed
and come back on Wednesday to hear our next story
about a California man who was wrongfully convicted of terrorism
based on a confession about and I kitch you not
(17:07):
pole vaulting Ninja Turtles. Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions is a
production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal
Company Number One and PRX Special thanks to our executive
producer Jason Flomm and the team at Signal Company Number
(17:30):
One Executive producer Kevin Wardies Senior Producer and Pope, and
additional production and editing by Connor Hall. Special thanks to
Jaji Hammer for additional script editing and for wrangling and
writing like a mad woman. Our music was composed by
Jay Ralph. You can follow me on Instagram or Twitter
(17:51):
at Laura Nywriter, and you can follow Steve on Instagram
at Stephen Drisen or on Twitter at Strisen. For more
information on the show, visit Wrongful convictionpodcast dot com and
be sure to follow the show on Instagram at Wrongful
Conviction on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast and on Twitter
at wrong Conviction
Hey guys, it's Laura and I writer. Welcome to a
special bonus episode of Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions. We've gotten
an overwhelming response to this week's story about Daniel Viegas
and to the video we posted on Instagram and Twitter
showing the moment he learned the jury's verdict, so we're
releasing a bonus episode a conversation I had with Daniel
(00:25):
when I sat down with him in Austin, Texas two
months ago. You know, after everything we've been through together,
Daniel's not just a former client, he's a friend. We
talked about what it was like waiting for the jury
to announce its verdict, how he'd prepared his children for
the possibility he might not be coming home, and how
it feels to finally focus on the future. If you
(00:50):
haven't heard his full story, it's right here in the
podcast feed, just under this bonus episode. And if you've
yet to watch Daniel's exoneration video, check it out on
Instagram at ung Full Conviction. It's an incredible opportunity for
all of us to bear witness to freedom. Daniel. I'm
(01:14):
so glad you're here with us today.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yes, I'm glad to be here too, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, So tell me what's going on for you right
now in your life. You've been out how many years?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Six years? Now? Six years?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
And tell me what you're doing with your life.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
At this point in the stage in my life, it's
you know, we're not dealing with the hecticness of trial
and all that stuff. So now I'm focusing on what
I'm going to do for the future.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
So you were acquitted about fourteen months ago, and so
you've had that time to finally move on from this case.
That's dog you your whole life exactly right. So what
have you been doing? Are you working?
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yes, I'm working with Manbela Contractors. I do their deliveries
with Mimbella Contractors.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
So this is John Vnbella.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, John Minbella. That helped me out too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, so you're working with John Vmbella huh all these years.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
You know, John Mimbella is like a family member. You know,
he didn't just you know, help get me free. You know,
he's always been there for me, you know, like a
backbone and a counselor. You know, he's always been someone
that I can go to, you know for anything. You know,
even if it's just a hang out.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Well, you've been a counselor yourself too. You were telling
me before we sat down that you know, you're working
at Membela construction and doing deliveries and things for them,
but you're also working with a lot of the other guys.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yes, work there.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
Yeah, we do construction, so it's a lot of you know,
you're gonna have a lot of conmics and stuff there.
So a lot of these guys, you know, they got
problems and issues, and you know they look up to me.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So Membela hires people who used to be incarcerated. Yes,
a lot of folks there. And these guys, you know,
just like anybody getting out of prison, have their struggles,
you know, their situation when they get out. Stuff they
have to figure out, and they come.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
To you exactly, you know, and they come to me
and ask me, you know, for my advice.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
You know, because one of the hardest things to transition into.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
You know, what we call the free world is you know,
we have to leave everything in prison behind us.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And a lot of times a lot of people can't
do that.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Because you're so used to you know, thinking and moving
in that way. So it's hard to put that behind
you and then live basically a whole different life.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
How do you put that behind you?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I mean I don't ever like I always tell her,
but I don't think it'll ever get away from us.
It won't ever escape us, and we'll always have it.
But the good thing is that as time progresses, you know,
as we grow, it's a lot easier to deal with.
Like before you would get mad and it was so
hard for you to calm down. After a while, when
you start getting mad, you'll start catching yourself going through
the stages of going from zero to one hundred, and
(03:31):
you can stop it before it goes to one hundred?
Speaker 1 (03:35):
What do you tell yourself to stop it?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Personally? Like I always check myself. You know, it's not
that bad, you know, look at the bigger picture.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Well, and you're not dealing with it alone either, Right,
you've got John Manilla, but you've also got a wonderful family.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Oh yes, you know, like my wife too, I mean
everyone for her. I mean I don't know what I
would have done. Yeah, she was when I first came out,
you know, I was basically a forty year old with
a sixteen year old mentality. You know, got locked up
when I was a kid, so I never really grew up.
I wasn't never had a structure. I never I never
really came out and was, you know, have my own
family or anything, you know. So coming down and dinning
(04:10):
was society as an adult was very very very very hard,
you know, because there was so much I didn't know,
and it was so frustrating because everybody knows it like
second nature, and you feel like you're out of the loop.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
You feel like an alien, like you.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Got dropped into another planet.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah right, you know. So Amanda's always been there too,
like she's always all right. You got your wallet, you
got your keys, you got this.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, those basic things of life, but the stuff you
forget right when you've been locked away for so long,
exactly exactly Amanda's watching. Make sure. Hey, man, we all
need somebody like Amanda.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
In our life, exactly, trust me.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
And you have a beautiful You've got a beautiful family.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You've got kids. Yes, we have four kids.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
I have my oldest daughter who's twenty five, Priscilla, and
then my daughter who's tan Kayla that's Amanda's daughter, and
my stepdaughter, and then we have two kids together.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
One four. That's basically I know, Jude, and.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Then named after your dad.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah, you're named after my dad and Amanda's brother. Yeah.
And then we have.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
The little little baby, the little rugrat. We have the
newest addition to the family. That's Emory Hope. She's the
hell Raiser.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
How old is she?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
She's going on two years old in a couple of months,
so she's almost too But that's the little hell Raiser.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Man a full house. Yeah, that's great, that's great. So,
you know, what would you tell your kids? You know,
some of them are obviously too young to talk about
what happened to you, But what do you tell your
kids who are old enough to start to think about
what happened to you? What do you tell them about
what happened to you?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
You know, I really don't try to focus so much
of what happened to me, but what they can do
now to avoid that, you know, like I always try
to tell them, you know, like you know, when they
get frusted, I'm always.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Trying to tell me, you know, it's not that bad.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
You know, you're you're you're you're getting too caught up
in this little drama going on at school.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Or whatever, and it's not that tough. You know, it's
not gonna be the end of the world. And you know,
I just try to.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
Give them my perspective as far as you know, thinking
of how to deal with problems.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
And stuff and issues that come into life.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
And that's mostly what I focus on, because I feel like,
you know, life is ten percent of what happens in
ninety percent how you react to that.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
I don't want to so.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Much teach him about my experience as much as teach
him about how to deal with your problems now from
that experience.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So let me talk to you a little bit about
what it was like to walk out of prison six
years ago. Right, you were released on bond. It's twenty fourteen,
January twenty fourteen when you were released on bond. Yes,
And you know, when I talk to my other clients
who have come out of prison, you know, people always
have stories about the little things, the things they didn't
realize they missed until they were back out and remembered
(07:00):
things right that they'd missed for so long. What were
those things for you? Those things you didn't realize that
you've been missing.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Does smell? Yeah, you know the way the pavement of
the street smell. You know, we take that again after
a while you're walking and you know, especially people living
downtown or whatever, you know, they don't even smell the
roses no more. And that's one of the main things
that a lot of us when we come out, we
notice these smells because we've been smelling nothing but disinfected
our whole life.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
So you know, you have actual nature and you have
like pavement, you have like you know, the birds chirpping,
and then you have cars and you have like horns,
and you know, it's a whole different orchestra of music,
and so to speak, compared to prison, where it's nothing
but just a lot of yelling and screaming, it's.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
A beautiful orchestra of music. Yeah, but hard to get
used to it first too.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
It's not so much as hard to get used to it,
just it's hard to concentrate on something now, is because
you're so focused on hearing every sound and everything.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
That's amazing, amazing, every sound from the orchestra of life.
I think that's gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
I want to take you back from moment too, if
I can, that moment fourteen months ago when you were acquitted.
It was your third trial right over the course of
twenty plus years, and this was the moment of your vindication. Yes,
it's an incredible moment for us all to listen to.
(08:23):
When you were sitting there in that courtroom. You know,
Amanda and your family members are right behind you, all
your supporters are right behind you. You were sitting there through
lawyers and the judge read out the verdict. Can you
tell me what it was like waiting for that verdict?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
That was excruciating pain that I would not wish on anybody.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
That was terrible.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
But you know when I was going through that, you know,
when they I was in the back of the side
of the courthouse and I was like having an intimate
moment with my daughter, my youngest daughter. How old was
she she was at that time, she was about six
months And you know, I really didn't think, you know,
I know she can't understand what I'm saying. So I
was just praying that you know, that parmorama experience happens
(09:05):
during death.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
It's true, where you live, your whole life flashes before you.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
You sort of get out of your body and see
yourself exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
So I figured, you know, if if anything.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
You know, I'll talk to her and she will remember
that on that day when she you know, because I couldn't,
you know, there's no other way.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
She was too young.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
So I was just explaining to her, you know, I
was just telling her, you know, baby, you know, I'm
not guilty.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
I'm just saying who I am.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
People are going to tell you stuff about me, and
I'm just like explaining things for that, you know that
I'm hoping one day she'll kind of remember that, she'll
come back to that.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And uh. I did this to each of my kids.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
I set each of them down by themselves and I
would explain things to them, and that was my last one.
And right when I was doing that, they tell us
that the verdict is on. We got the verdict, and
I'm like, holy crap. So we were running to the courthouse.
And then the thoughts, like I said, since I was
having that intimate moment with her, you know, was one
of the thoughts that came into my mind that were
(10:01):
more prevailing than anyone. I was thinking to myself that
did we make the right decision, you know, not accepting
the offer please? And I was like, I know in
my heart, you know that we made the right decision.
And I know Amanda stands by me on that, but
I was saying, did we actually do.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
It the right decision for our kids?
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (10:17):
You know, even if you know you're right, you know,
are we making the right decisions because this is my
case right.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Not to see you?
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
And if you look at the video, you'll see me
and my Lord's talking and you see me shaking my hand.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
That's what I was telling them.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
You know, I'm pleased, man, tell me that we made
the right decision here, that we do made the right decision,
not only on me, but did we make the right
decision for my children?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
You know? Did we fight this on pride or did
we fight this for justice?
Speaker 3 (10:41):
You know, you you second guess everything at that moment,
you know, and then you second guess your you know
everything that charal's coming through your head and you're like, man,
we should have done this, We should have done that.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
You know that was coming to your thoughts, and that's
killing you too.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
So you got all these there's like a million thoughts
just blading down on you. And then you just want
to judge your hear up and tell you not guilty
and guilty and you wait for the jury to come
in here in.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Order, and you're just sitting there dying, I mean excruciated.
So you're sitting there in that moment, waiting for the
verdicts to come back, and you're thinking back on the offer,
play on that decision which which Amanda guided you through
which Jason Baldwin from the West movest Iie guided you
throw yes, and then the verdict comes.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Back yes, not guilty exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
And it was not before he said not guilty. I
already knew when he said he said it was a
form B, right, and I already had had the piece
of paper, and it was like Form A was guilty,
Form B was not guilty, you know. So when I
had the paper in front of me and then I
heard form B, I right away looked at that piece
of paper.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
I said, oh shit, it's not guilty.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
But it was just a couple of seconds like you're saying,
you know, and that's what I just it was like
I was, like I said, I was so tense. I
mean that time period, that whole year was probably the
worst year of my life. And uh, I was so
tense that when that verdict not guilty happened. It was
just like, you know, like a ball full of rubber bands.
It was like you just take one and it all
just falls apart. Yeah, and that's exactly what happened, you know,
(12:09):
that not guilty just pulled that one string and everything
fell apart and I just hit the ground. I hit
the table with my head. It didn't even hurt here
on the next day and I was just so, you know,
out of there.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah, And you got out of there, didn't you right
away as soon as you could never to return.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
We left too fast out of there, Like that's what
I was telling, me and a man that we had
all this little speech that we're going to do afterwards,
you know, to the news or whatever. And when that
man said the judge said, you know what, not guilty,
you are free to go there. You are no longer
under any conditions of this court anymore. Yeah, that whole
speech that we had, it was up my head. I
totally forgot. I ran out that courtroom. I was like,
(12:50):
I grabbed the man. I was like, let's go and the.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Cameras, get the news, get me out of here. But
you are actually going to be in a courtroom again.
I think in a couple of days. Right, what's your
plan for when you're here in Austin.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I'm here in Austin.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
I want to go to the Capitol and I want
to go see the Court's of Criminal Appeals and I
would love to see if I can talk to one
of the judges.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So you want to go to the Texas Court of
Criminal Appeals. This is the court that affirmed your grant
of a new trial, that affirmed your conviction being thrown out. Yeah,
and you want to just go in that building. Tell
me why.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
One of the main things I want to go because
when we're going to courts criminal appial, they're telling us
about the judges and they were saying that we have
to get a majority rule, and they were saying three
of the judges were not going to go for they
never go for the inmate. And they were like, so
don't even worry about those three. We know we're not
going to get them. But at the end of the day,
you know, we had an anonymous vote. Even the judges
that they said we're not going to vote voted, and
(13:40):
that was like the first time it happened in Texas history.
So that's what I was like, you know, maybe I
won't be able to talk to judge, but I would
love to, you know, ask you know what made this
case so different that all you are in agreement with it?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
What was so special that shot to your faith? You know?
What was it?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Do you think it will still be worthwhile to go
there even if you can't talk to the judges, just
to be in the building. What would it be just
to be in the building, just.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
To be in the building, if they would let me
walk into the room where they actually make the decisions. I
would you like to just sit there, you know, and
just think this is where they made the decisions on
letting you go.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Yeah, you know, that would be awesome.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
This is where it all turned around.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Yeah, this is the place I used to curse that
every every Wednesday, waiting for the answer, Daniel.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I just want to ask you, you know, what is
what's your what are your hopes for the future.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
That I'm not totally certain about that right now, I
haven't figured out where my direction is actually going to go.
Because one thing I've realized about life is that I
have my plans, but the universe has its own plans,
and somehow or another, I always end up doing what the
universe wants me to do rather than what I want
to do. So I'm trying to figure out my nick
(14:59):
and right now, you know, meanwhile, I'm just trying to
do as much I can to help, you know, other people,
to figure out what my true calling is going to be.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Well, one day at a time. It's pretty good right now.
Thank you so much for sitting down with me. It's
been an absolute pleasure. Daniel Viegas than man, exonerated man,
congrat Thank you.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Oh and also like thank you for helping me on
my appeal. I mean, Laura, she's on my case. It's
just so it's so bad ass. It's so awesome to
have all you guys with us.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
It's our pleasure.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
But you know, you guys never get the thanks, you know,
and that's one thing that you know, I want to
really focus, you know, I want to really you know,
put out there two about our lawyers or you know
that that help us, because you got to understand that normally,
with a client and the lawyer, situation goes once the
court is over, you're not going to see that lawyer
hardly ever again, you know, and in this situation where
(15:50):
around for conviction, we are so close to our lawyer,
We're so close to you guys.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
You guys become our family.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
You know that even when we come out, you don't
give up on It's not like, Okay, well we got
your free buy, I have a good life.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You guys are they're helping us out. You guys are still.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
There making sure that you know we're we're being entered
back into society but successfully. Yeah, you know, and that
you guys need to get them things for that, because
I don't feel like you guys get the things for that.
I don't feel like the networks get the things for
the innocent networks that are all these different organizations that
work so hard to get us free. Because when we
get free, the game's not over yet. Well it's still
(16:24):
a whole new game now. Now the game is how
do we get this man who's been locked up for
twenty years in prison that doesn't know nothing else but
how to be an amn? How do we get him
to become a productive member in society.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And that's what you guys do too.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Well, that's what you've done. So congratulations on that, all right,
believe us?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
I love that great.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Thanks so much, Daniel, thank you, Thanks for listening to
the special bonus episode of Wrongful Conviction False Confessions. You
can listen to Daniel's story right here in this feed
and come back on Wednesday to hear our next story
about a California man who was wrongfully convicted of terrorism
based on a confession about and I kitch you not
(17:07):
pole vaulting Ninja Turtles. Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions is a
production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal
Company Number One and PRX Special thanks to our executive
producer Jason Flomm and the team at Signal Company Number
(17:30):
One Executive producer Kevin Wardies Senior Producer and Pope, and
additional production and editing by Connor Hall. Special thanks to
Jaji Hammer for additional script editing and for wrangling and
writing like a mad woman. Our music was composed by
Jay Ralph. You can follow me on Instagram or Twitter
(17:51):
at Laura Nywriter, and you can follow Steve on Instagram
at Stephen Drisen or on Twitter at Strisen. For more
information on the show, visit Wrongful convictionpodcast dot com and
be sure to follow the show on Instagram at Wrongful
Conviction on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast and on Twitter
at wrong Conviction
Hosts And Creators
Lauren Bright Pacheco
Maggie Freleng
Jason Flom
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